Steve Sands Returns

Steve Sands returns to the pod to sit down with CH3 and break down Xander's win, the multitude of storylines and all the crazy news that came out of the PGA Championship at Valhalla last week.

Special thanks to Rapsodo: Use code CH3 for a $50 gift card with the purchase of an MLM2PRO at rapsodogolf.com/ch3. Whether you are looking to improve your game or just play more golf, the MLM2PRO is the solution for you.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Witness insurmountable deficits turn into unforgettable victories at the Travelers Championship,
the northeast one and only PGA Tour signature event. See
Scotty Scheffler, Worry McElroy, Victor Howlin, Patrick Cantley, and returning
champion Keegan Bradley, as well as other PGA Tour stars
in all four days of the competition at close by

(00:21):
TPC River Highlands. The excitement tees off June nineteenth through
the twenty third. For tickets and information, visit Travelers Championship
dot com. The Travelers Championship there is only one. It's
the Son of a Butcher podcast. I'm your host, Claude Harmon.

(00:44):
Coming off of a very very excited PGA Championships Xanderschoffle
gets his first major and wanted to take a deep
dive into it, so figured we would get one of
the voices of professional golf, Steve Sands, NBC Golf Channel.
I think he's one of the best in the business
and had him on the pod before. But it was
a very very interesting week at Valhalla and a lot

(01:08):
of storylines, just a lot of craziness from last week,
so I wanted to get Steve Sands on to talk
about it, and I think it is a good one.
So sit back and enjoy listening to Steve Sands my

(01:29):
guest today, Steve Sand's Voice of Golf on Golf Channel
and NBC Sansy at the beginning of the week. Beginning
of the week at the PGA, if I told you
the headlines were going to be Scotti, Scheffler gets arrested,
Rory McElroy's getting divorced, Xander closes, Bryson has a chance
to win another major and is a fan favorite. I mean,

(01:50):
does any of that track with with what we thought
was going to happen?

Speaker 2 (01:54):
It makes perfect sense, Scott. I mean, that's exactly the
way the world has been the last you know, eight
or nine years, the last three or four years. In
the sport. It makes all the sense in the world
that a guy who sleeps with a Bible, who's the
hottest player on the planet, it's the most recognizable person
in the sport outside of Tiger, just outside the gates

(02:15):
at a major championship, would get into some type of
disruption or discussion with a police officer and it just
doesn't work. I mean, what are we talking about here.
It's crazy. You know, the legal part aside the sad
part is, of course we had to say this out loud,
that somebody lost his life, Claude, that was the reason
there was a traffic terror. That's the first thing and

(02:38):
really the only thing. The secondary part of the number
one player in the world being arrested. We've been to
sporting events a thousand times in our lives, Claude. We've
seen that traffic type of pattern. You know, maybe not
the circumstances because of the traffic, but we've seen that
traffic outside of sporting events for years. That was just
I have no idea what happened. I hope the police

(02:59):
officer and Scotti are all perfectly fine, but again, we
have no idea what took place there.

Speaker 1 (03:05):
Yeah, and listen, I've been in courtesy car. You ride
with the player you're trying to get in. I mean,
we were all saying on the driving range. I mean,
how many players you've You've done that one hundred times, right,
You've you've seen the traffic. You know you're in a
courtesy car. You know it's got the you know they're
gonna they're gonna bring you in, and so you know,

(03:26):
so definitely the guys I've worked with, DJ and Brooks.
I mean, you do that at majors, you do that
two or three times a year. It's just it's all
that part of it. And normally the police as soon
as they see the courtesy car, you know, with the
logos on the side of it, you get ushered right in.
Scotty Scheffler and Brooks Kepta have the same agent, Blake Smith.

(03:49):
Blake's father, Randy Smith, is Scotty's swing coach, and Brooks
and I were talking on the driving range. I gotta
think that Blake Smith never thought he'd get a call
saying that he had to go get Scotti Scheffler out
of jail.

Speaker 2 (04:04):
I mean, what are the odds of that happening going
into the week, What are the odds that happening anytime?
I honestly, I have no idea how this is all
going to play auclaude, but Friday morning last week has
to be one of the most bizarre, you know, stretches
of I'm Beyonce around a golf tournament in the history

(04:24):
of the sport. I mean, that was just yikes, man,
that was great and we laughed. There's this you know,
who knows how this plays out. I mean, we're joking
about it now, but my goodness, you know, if this
doesn't work out in anybody's favor, we're not going to
be laughing here. Who knows?

Speaker 1 (04:38):
I mean and talking to Randy Smith on Sunday, his
you know, Scotty's longtime swing instructor. He played Friday on
just pure adrenaline. I mean, just pure, one hundred percent adrenaline.
I mean, nobody can prepare you for something like that.
I've got to think out of all the places Scotty
Scheffler ever thought he would be in a jail cell period,

(05:02):
let alone a jail cell at a major championship, is
just something that you just couldn't He couldn't even believe
that would happen. And then on top of that, he
goes out and plays an unbelievable round of golf. But
then Saturday again, his caddy, Teddy Scott's going to watch
his daughter graduate. Teddy Scott's not on the bag. You

(05:25):
kind of figured that was going to be Saturday was
going to be tough for him. It was. Once he
got arrested, it was like a lot of the like
the wind went out of the sales of the tournament,
because obviously everybody thinks that Scott he's on this run
to maybe win his second major championship. The rounds he
played on Friday was unbelievable. I mean, I couldn't believe

(05:48):
he played that.

Speaker 2 (05:49):
Well, that's as good a round of golf as he's
ever played under the circumstances, considering it's not a Sunday
to major, I understand that, but for what he went
through that morning to come back out. She's sixty six.
I realized there were low scores that day, but it
doesn't matter. It's this incredible last for Saturday. Claude, I
just think he ran out of gas man. You know,
imagine what was going on, you know, in his mind.

(06:11):
Again you're talking about for people who don't understand. To
be number one in the world, you have to have
some omph to you. There is no such thing as
being mister nice guy all the time if you're going
to be the best at something on the planet. But
Scotty is as nice a kid as you'll ever be around.
If you have a daughter, he's the kind of guy

(06:31):
you want her to marry. He's he's warm, he's nice,
he's smart, he's thoughtful, he's an incredible athlete, he's competitive,
the whole thing. He's got the whole package. I just
can't believe he got arrested. I just can't believe that happened.
But again, well I'm gonna have to wait and see
how it all plays out. But what he did Saturday,
with that Friday, with that sixty six, Claude, Holy smokes.

(06:55):
I mean, you and I both know we've been around
these guys a long time. It's one thing to be talented,
to be great, to go out there play golf kind
of laissez Faire's another thing in major championship golf and
in big PGA Tour events, big live golf events, big
moments like that. You know, from the collar bones up,
you've got to be strong out there, and you couldn't

(07:15):
be stronger than the strength he showed between the ropes
on Friday, playing on adrenaline and all the things going
on in his mind. That sixty six was outstanding.

Speaker 1 (07:26):
Yeah, I mean, he is the he is the Tom
Hanks of golf, right, I mean, he's he's this character,
this person this personality that everybody loves, says, you've been
you've been around the game a long time. Your your
weekend week out with these players. I mean, you've seen
some amazing runs. Obviously what Tiger Woods did, what the
greats of the game has done. But putting to perspective

(07:49):
the golf that we're seeing from from Scotty, because I
think that because his personality is what it is, and
that's to me, the best thing that he's got going
for him is you know, I was talking to his agent,
Blake Smith. His mind is his superpower, right, his persona. Yes,
his golf game is unbelievable, but I think the approach

(08:10):
that Scotty has to not only life, but to also
professional golf is the superpower that he's got. How significant
in the in the realm of great players and runs
that great players have been on. This run that Scotty's
been on for the last you know, two three years,
it's as good of a golf is that we've seen.

Speaker 2 (08:34):
It really is. It's amazing what he's been doing. The
ball striking is outrageous, The consistency is outrageous. That round
on Saturday at Valhalla was the first overpar around he
shot all year. I mean that that's a joke. I mean,
that's that's really truly outrageous. Another top ten finished for him.
Didn't have a chance to win it on Sunday, but
it's still a top ten finish. I was talking to

(08:55):
Raymond Floyd. You know how in Live from the Masters
on the Golf Channel, we have all the guys come
in with the green jackets and Ben Crenshaw, Raymond Floyd,
Tom Watson, Jack Nicholas. It's all really cool. Gary Player
did it for years, Arno Palmer did it for years.
All these guys come in, and Raymond was when he
was in there, I asked him, what are we seeing
here from Scotty Scheffler? Same question you just asked me?

(09:17):
And Raymond said, and I totally agree with them. So
you have I told Ramy, you have McElroy from eleven
to fourteen winning four majors. You have Speed from fourteen
to seventeen winning three major championships. You know, keepka on
that crazy run. Then he won another one last year
to make it five major championships. What are we seeing
from Scotty Scheffler? And Raymond said? Great players all get hot,

(09:42):
The question is can they remain hot through a sustained
period of time? So when I went over those names
that we just went through, McElroy, Speed Kepta, those crazy
great runs they went on, Raymond said, oh, no, we
all do that. But when we get into a separate
category like a Tiger or a Jack and those types
of players, you're talking about guys who are consistently great

(10:06):
beyond three years. So what Raymond said was, we're seeing
pure greatness from Scotty, there's no question about that. We're
also seeing someone who's on a heater. There's no question
about that. The combination of the two will it sustain
itself after three years? That will put Scotty Laud in
a different category than just being another not I mean quotations,

(10:28):
another great player who's gotten hot. But there's no debate
he's the best player in the world right now. There's
no debate is the best ball striker. And if that
Potter cooperates, he's going to be there on Sunday, and
if it's his time to win another one, it is.
And I think he's the best player in the world
right now by far. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:46):
And I think Sansy's the thing that when I look
at his game, I mean just the way that he
approaches golf and the way that he kind of lives
his life. You know, he doesn't really get wrapped up
in a lot of the stuff that a lot of athletes,
but specifically golfers get wrapped up in. You know, my
dad says the same thing, but she says the same
thing that can he sustain this and can the heater

(11:10):
become What Rory did was Rory came out and he
was on a heater and then he just did it
for the next ten twelve years. Right. You can talk
about the fact that Rory hasn't won a major in
ten years, but Rory has been one of, if not
the top three four dominant players of the last ten years.

(11:33):
So he's been doing this for a decade. And every
major Rory is one of the favorites for the foreseeable future, Sansy,
every major Scotti Scheffler, regardless of where the golf course is,
regardless of what the setup is, he is going to
be the favorite because he has so many of the
other things that you have to have to be a

(11:55):
great champion and a great player. You have to be
able to handle the pressure. Like you said, everybody's good.
Everybody gets on these runs, but to be in the
elite great you have to sustain it for longer than
just a two to three year period.

Speaker 2 (12:12):
Well, just think about the four major championships. You know.
The beauty to me of the four major championships is
is they're different. They're like tennis, you know, they're the
four Grand Slams are different from each other. The four
major championships in golf are different. You can't find one
that doesn't fit Scotty. I used to think this about Tiger,

(12:32):
you know, like, oh, this course fits him well? Really
which one doesn't? I mean, which one doesn't fit him well?
So you know, the Masters, obviously he's won it twice,
so clearly augusta National has warmed up in Scotty's mind.
You know, the PGA Championship again, he put himself right there.
The Open is the US opens at Pinehurst, I mean,

(12:54):
tell me why he can't succeed there and then at
Royal Troon. There's no reason at an Open championship. The
way he strikes a golf ball. If it's windy there
and the bad weather comes in there, it doesn't matter
whether the weather's great or whether it's bad. He's the
best ball striker in the world. So if the weather's bad.
I'll take the ball striker when the weather's bad, and

(13:14):
the guy who's mentally tough. Oh, by the way, Scotty's
mentally tough as well, so he's got one of those things. It's,
you know, not picking on Andy North winning two US
Opens or Lee Jansen winning two US Opens or hail
Or winning three US Opens. You know, love all those guys,
and they're all great, great players, but it seems like
they had like one avenue. You know, in these major championships.

(13:35):
You talk about Rory, you talk about Scotty Schefford, these
guys could win anywhere. You know, these guys could win
absolutely anywhere. And look, we're gonna go to pine Ricks
next month, and as long as he's healthy and still there,
who's gonna be favored Scotty?

Speaker 1 (13:51):
Well? I mean, And the other thing is he's playing
this week in Colonial. Wouldn't be surprised if he wins there?
Then what memorial before that? Sure is? How wouldn't surprise
me if you won there? Because that's a big golf course.
You have to be a great ball striker. He could
conceivably go into Pinehurst off the back of two more wins.

Speaker 2 (14:12):
No question about it. And that's the thing that I
love about watching Scotty play. Is Colonial this week, Okay,
I'm flying there tomorrow. Okay. Colonial this week is like
hilton Head, like why lie the Sony Open in Hawaii,
and then all of a sudden you got this monster
ballpark which we're going to be seeing at the memorial
at Mirfield Village. And last week Valhalla was like Tory

(14:36):
Pines and hilton Head combined, real small greens but a
massive ballpark. And here he was once again, except for
that one day, like Brooks Kopka, you know, just one
day kind of took him out of the event. And
Scotty just didn't have a great day on Saturday. But
weird circumstances for him. But there's no way he's not
the favorite clot coming in. It's just it's just wild now,

(14:57):
different months, different conditions, different cour different time zones, different brass,
different agronomy, different players coming in. Hot Macelroy this week
was the man who won two in a row in
New Orleans with Shane and then at Quel Hollows, Vander
came close and then he put it together. The one
constant in all of this is Scotty Scotty is just

(15:18):
there every single week. It's amazing.

Speaker 1 (15:21):
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(16:26):
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play without limits. You mentioned Xander Schaffle getting his first
major championships. Within the fraternity of professional golf, both on
the playing side and the media side and the caddyside, everybody,

(16:48):
there are popular wins and then there are popular wins.
Zander winning a major will be a very, very popular win,
but there are also wins on tour when players get
their first major to where everybody in the sport says,
you could see it coming. He's always had the game.

(17:09):
The knock against Xander is, you know, eight wins. I
mean he's what fifty million now, I mean, you know,
turn pro, what's sixteen seventeen, So the career is so legit, right,
But the knock against Xander was when he did he
should have won more. Yeah, I mean you can always

(17:29):
say that about a lot of guys, but Xander seemed
to always put himself in position a lot, and he
put himself in position a lot in majors. And he
has every part. There isn't a part of the game
that he doesn't have. And you know, he's made some
changes to his golf swing with Chris Como. But for
a small guy, he hits it. Miles Xander is as

(17:53):
legit as it gets, and I think everybody is surprised
that it has taken him this long to win a major.
Thus just because that's how good everybody thinks he is.

Speaker 2 (18:05):
Well, we know that that golf is your life. It's
been your life, you know, literally your entire life. But
I know you're also a sports fan and you also
appreciate other athletes in other sports. You know, it took
Michael Jordan's seven years to win his first NBA title.
He had to get through the you know, the Pistons.
They had to get through the Celtics before that with

(18:26):
the Pistons. Teams do this all the time in teams competition.
They can't quite get there and then they break through. Well,
there's no reason to think that golf is any different.
You know, Xander had to build up some scar tissue,
he gave a couple away, didn't play great a couple
of times when he was in that spot, but overall,

(18:47):
he put himself in a position to win. Just wasn't
his time, and you ran into a brick wall. It
happened for him on Sunday, and I'm so happy for him.
It's an incredibly popular to win AI amongst his peers.
He's a great guy, not just a great player. He's
a competitor. How about his confidence, Claude, I mean, you're
in the instruction business, okay, you know which I've always

(19:07):
joked with your dad about this. You guys are so
brilliant at the technical side of the game, but also
have an understanding without a degree in this, that you're
also part sports psychologist when you're also coaching in golf.
And for him to switch away from his dad, okay,
his lifelong coach is his dad, all right, And he

(19:30):
goes to Chris Cuomo, and he has the changes, and
he's not playing not to lose, Claude, He's playing to win,
and he's stayed aggressive. The second shot on eighteen, when
you had to dig into that bunker, get real low
below the ball, do you lay up there? Do you
play conservatively there? Or do you say no? No? This
has been my game plan all week. I know I

(19:51):
need a four at this par five to get a win.
Let's keep playing the way I've always played. And you
put all that together and I'm just so happy for him.
I'm proud of Xander for hanging in there. You know,
in this short period of time. People think he's been
out there for one hundred years and he hasn't gotten
that first major championship win. Like you said, his body
of work in his time frame since turning pro claude

(20:14):
is beyond legit. Man. He is a filthy, filthy golfer man.
He is a great, great player, and I think there's
more to come. I'm not a huge fan club. You know,
you and I have talked about this before. You know,
it happens all the time. Guy busts through and wins
his first major, and now everybody is saying, oh, now
the floodgates are going to open. I don't necessarily believe

(20:36):
in that in this particular case because of how he's
gotten to this point, building the step by step to
get to a major championship victory. To me, Xander's not
going away anytime soon. I fully expect him to be
in contention at plenty of majors over the next decade.

Speaker 1 (20:54):
Yeah. And the other thing that that was impressive about
last week is he had he had a chance to
wink before at Wells Fargo and he got smoked by
Rory McRoy. Okay, Roy McRoy has this extra gear that
not a lot of players have. But he's in the
final group with Rory. Rory turns on the gas, wins

(21:14):
going away at Quail Hollow the week before. It would
be easy to be affected by that, to say okay,
because that could go the other way, right, that's another
chance that Xander's got to win a big tournament against
a quality field, against one of the best players in
the world. And you know, Roy what shot eight nine

(21:36):
under on Sunday at Quail and Sander what shut couple
under and didn't get it done. So you wouldn't be
surprised if he comes in with a little bit of
scar tissue. But sixty two, sixty eight, sixty a, sixty
five to get to twenty one under on a Sunday
that Listen, there are a lot of people Sandy talking

(21:57):
about the golf course being too easy. It was like
EPC all of it. The golf course is the golf course, right,
and the players play the golf course that they're told
to show up to. I thought we saw some big
time drama on Sunday for a major that everybody that
a lot of people. I've heard articles social saying, oh,

(22:18):
it needed to be harder, it needed to be harder
twenty one under. I thought it was really good.

Speaker 2 (22:24):
But I would like to see a major championship play
more difficult. There's no question about that. I think everybody
would agree with that. However, there's no way to discount
someone's victory. It rained two inches the week prior, It
rained half an inch on Monday. It rained a little
bit more on Thursday night and Friday morning. The golf
course is soft. There's nothing you can do about it.
If it was firm and fast, it may not have

(22:46):
been as entertaining. Who knows. It was incredibly entertaining. And
by the way, it was like that for everybody in
the field. All right, So was it a little bit
on the easier side, Sure, okay, the scores were low,
but Xander was the best player all week. And by
the way, let's not discount the wire to wire factory, Claude.
You know this, What people see in golfers and what

(23:08):
we see in athletes is their talent, their skill. What
we can't measure is how mentally tough they are because
we can't get inside their brain. Well, you try sleeping
on a lead. I've talked to a million golfers who
who have told me, can't sleep when you have a
lead next day, can't sleep when you have a lead.
God forbid. You have the lead after fifty four holes,

(23:29):
and you're leading with only eighteen to play, and you
know what's in front of you. This guy went wired
to wire, all right. That is so difficult to do
at a regular PGA Tour event. It's so difficult to
do at a Players Championship. It's exponentially more difficult to
do at a major championship. I just think the world
of Xander as a person and as a golfer, and

(23:50):
I think it all came together for him last week,
and I'm really looking forward to seeing how he moves forward,
how this propels him moving forward, will keep him motivated
to win more? Will he rest on his laurels? I'll
take the former, not the latter. I think Xander is
here to stay for a long time. He is a great,
great player.

Speaker 1 (24:10):
Yeah, And I also thought it was a statement the
way he played in the final group, playing with a
two time major champion in Colin Morrikawa. You'll call him,
you know, won two majors early in his career, and
it's made looking made winning majors look really really easy.
The switch from Stefan, who is a larger than life character,

(24:34):
like one of the great characters in professional golf. We're
lucky enough to know Sanders dad Stefan. You hear him
before you see him. He's one of my favorite people.
But like you said, it is tough when your father
has been kind of your coach and your mentor and
helped you get to this platform. It's not an easy

(24:54):
decision that Xander took to reach out to Chris Como
and say, okay, let me see if what you think
and let me see if there's some gains that I
could make, because you know, there's a comfort level when
you work with your dad and he's kind of been
your guy. I take my hat off to to Xanders,
say listen, man, I'm gonna try and see if there's
something I'm missing or something that maybe I don't know.

(25:17):
I think that that's been huge and for Chris Como,
that's you know, two major champions now for Chris as
a coach and Bryson de Champeau and Xander, who couldn't
be any more different, but an interesting, interesting choice from
Xander to make that change.

Speaker 2 (25:35):
Oh interesting for sure. I'll tell you what, Claude. I
was saying this last week to some people. I wasn't
working last week because a CBS ESPN event and I
don't do life in the PGA, so I was just watching.
But I was texting with some friends of mine. I
was like, you know, you ought to you ought to
bring up how about the credit Stefan deserves. Oh yeah,
for your son, who's your your your your whole world

(25:56):
professionally and personally, like you said, great guy, credible personality, huge,
larger than life kind of person. But for him, Claude,
you know, I'm a parent, you know, for you to
receive that news from your son and then take it
the correct way and not ruin your a relationship with

(26:19):
your son, which is the most important thing, but be
the professional side as well of what Xander's trying to do.
To me, it speaks volumes as to what people thought
of Stefan before this and now after. He is not
some guy who's just in Xander's face and in his way.
That is a tremendous job. In my opinion, I see

(26:40):
the smile on your face, you know, not a part coach,
part parent. I thought Stefan handled that beautifully, and I
thought Xander handled his father beautifully in that position. You
can imagine how difficult that must have been for Xander.
Now I'm not making them analogous, but we all see
Mike Thomas and Justin Thomas all day, every day at

(27:03):
PGA tour events, and people ask me all the time
about that relationship, and Mike gets asked about it all
the time. Justin gets asked about all the time. It
can't be easy when you're with your dad twenty four
to seven like that, in a working environment, and when
things don't go well. As we all know, Claude, it's
never the player's fault. It's the cadi's fault. It's the

(27:24):
coach's fault. He's fault. It can't be the player's fault.
And I say that facetiously, but you know what I mean.
So when you have to make a switch, or you
feel like you need to make a switch, it's one
thing to call Claude Harmon, it's another thing to call
your dad. I mean, my god, that's not easy. They're
all not easy. So I give them all credit for that.
I give Chris a ton of credit for handling that

(27:47):
situation well and again for Xander to mix up his
action because he needed to make an improvement to get
this next step and then to have it all come
together and come to fruition. Man, I give all the
parties there a lot of credit. It's just it's just

(28:09):
just a lot there. And by the way, back to
the Justin Thomas and Mike Thomas thing. You know, Justin
and Mike have both told me and you know this
for years, they have found that correct balance of father
and coach, coach and father pupil and father pupil and coach.
Because Justin is the boss, he's the player, and it's

(28:30):
got to be very strange to have that. And I
give all the credit in the world a step on
and Xander for handling that beautifully.

Speaker 1 (28:37):
Yeah. And Stefan, you know, was a very good athlete
when he was younger, and and you know, I think
he took a lot of the things that that kind
of propelled him in his early career. It's trying to
be an athlete as well. Sander goes to number two
in the world. If if you still believe in the
Official World Golf rankings. Can he be the best player

(28:58):
in the world. Does he have that type of game? Santy?

Speaker 2 (29:03):
It's a great question, Claude, Uh do Look. I think
that Rory, Scottie and if John ever got it together again,
you know, and it Brooks is a completely healthy and
motivated at all times. I think that those five, you know,
justin Thomas has kind of fallen off just a touch,

(29:25):
but obviously the game is still there. I'm sure. I'm
sure he'll get it back. Kyler Marakalis seems like he's
gotten it back, you know, a little bit to where
it was when he was in his heyday. But as
far as to me, McElroy, Scheffler, Xander a healthy and motivated,
productive John Ram I think those are the four best

(29:48):
players in the world that I don't see any reason
why Xander can't be number one in the official World
Golf ranking if you still believe in that, but also
be right there with those guys every week as far
as being favored and then showing up on Sundays on
leaderboards at major championships. For sure, Xanders got the game.
I mean, he's got all you need. And now that

(30:11):
he has this win, perhaps that little shot of confidence
that lets him know that, Yeah, there's a big difference
between thinking you can do it and knowing you can
do it. Well, up until Sunday, he always thought he
could do it, and now he knows he can do it.
So let's see where it goes from here. But I
don't think there's any reason. Maybe week in week out,

(30:32):
I would think that Rory and Scott he might be
more consistently better, maybe right now, but Xander's right there
with him. Man Sanders, good man, he is so good. Club.

Speaker 1 (30:43):
Let's talk about someone who's really kind of I will
say this, I think he's transformed his game. Bryson d Chambeau.
I mean, Bryson always had a tremendous amount of talent,
and then you know, he went down the route where
he looked like he ate Bryson and during COVID bulked
up and all of a sudden showed up looking like
the incredible Hulk and was trying to drive greens and

(31:04):
wins a major at Wingfoot and then makes all the
comments that he makes about Augusta where par Is in
the fifties and all of this stuff. But I've been
you know, all of my guys went to live so
I've watched Bryson play a lot of golf over the
last two and a half years, and sansy he has

(31:25):
figured out how to play golf. He is still as
quirky and unique and testing equipment and always pushing the boundaries.
But there is a different Bryson in twenty twenty four
than there was in twenty twenty. He's evolved as a person,

(31:45):
but he's also evolved as a golfer. And I thought,
you know, four rounds in the sixties, sixty eight, sixty five,
sixty seven, sixty four on Sunday, I mean the eight
iron he hits from two ten to twenty and stiffs it.
There's nobody in the world that Bryson is one of
those players that can do things that really no one

(32:09):
else in the game can do. How how important do
you think last week was for Bryson from a game standpoint,
but also the fans seem to embrace him in a
way that they never did before, and he seemed to
embrace the fans in a way that he hasn't embraced
them before. I just think it's been cool to watch

(32:32):
this kind of transformation into Bryson kind of where he
was to kind of I think this is Bryson two
point zero.

Speaker 2 (32:42):
You're familiar, Claude with the what's going on with the
TV ratings this year on the PGA Tour and how
down the ratings have been. The ratings were up ten
percent on Sunday, and that's a direct result and no
offense to Xander, who I love. It's a direct result
of Bryson. I think that the fan favorite part of
it is fascinating because Live took away some of the

(33:05):
great villains in the sport, and I mean that in
a lovable way, you know, like a lovable villain in
sports is necessary. And to me, what I saw last week,
more than anything Claude, is just how much golf fans
in America miss seeing Bryson to Shamba play. He is

(33:26):
a showman. He is a bizarre cat who thinks his
own way, plays his own way, does things his own way.
It's as if Frank Sinatra's song My Way was written
just for Bryson to Shambo and the golf fans. Last
week on TV and in person, you could just sense

(33:51):
how much he has been missed because he's out there
hooting and holler and he's running around, He's doing the
whole thing. He's Bryson, the whole deal, and he's muscling
everything and is just fascinating to watch. He's the most
fascinating guy in the sport to watch when he's playing well.
I don't think there's any debate on that. You can
like him or dislike him. You can go through the

(34:12):
litany of ten, twelve, fifteen best players in the world,
you can't find anybody more fascinating to watch than that
guy at the highest level. So he's missed and his
game is so good, Claud and he's just he's done
it different ways as far as the science of it all,
but he also has evolved into the player he is

(34:35):
today through his own convictions, his own way of doing it.
And there's a lot to do with the people around
him and Chris and everything. But you know, good for
Bryson for you know, getting it together and getting it
back on track. And I think he's better now than
he's ever been. And I was not surprised to see
him play well last week. It won't surprise me to

(34:56):
see him play well at Pinehurst or Royal truon well.
He's just a tremendous player and my god is he
a breadth of fresh air to a sport that really
needed it in twenty twenty four.

Speaker 1 (35:08):
What do you think last week showed the fans that
they maybe didn't see before, or maybe Bryson wasn't able
to show them because he's always had legit game, right,
I mean, you can't you can't fake it. I mean
usam you know, wins early major champion. He's been on

(35:29):
President's Cup and the Ryder Cup team, but last week
seemed like it was different. Is that more Bryson changing
or do you think the fans are changing.

Speaker 2 (35:43):
A little bit of both. I think that, you know,
one thing that people don't realize. I'm fifty five years old, Claude.
I think you're a little younger than I, but.

Speaker 1 (35:50):
I'm fifty five. Babies, Sammy Hagar.

Speaker 2 (35:52):
We're the same age. There you go. So I think
people really forget that this guys are kids, man, their kids,
and they're growing up Unlike you and me, they're growing
up in front of the world's eye, so everything they
do and say is scrutinized from the time they were
like nineteen twenty twenty one. So here's Bryson Wotson in

(36:14):
his late twenties. Is he around thirty maybe, you know,
let's say around there. He's just getting going, claud I mean,
you know he can be. He's young enough to be
one of our kids, for God's sake, So he's just
kind of evolving as a human being and not just
a golfer. That's the first thing I think. The second
thing is, I think the guys who I've spoken to

(36:35):
and you know this way better than me, the guys
i've spoken to with live the one thing they say
they miss more than anything is the juice, you know,
they miss, you know, being against the best in these
monster crowds. I know there's a big crowd at an
Adelaide down in Australia, but for the most part, they're
not playing in front of these monster crowds. And I
think people forget to use this word earlier with Bryson.

(36:58):
People forget these guys aren't just professional golfers, their performers, Claude.
You know, during COVID we heard a lot of them
say it was really weird. It was so quiet out there.
They weren't playing in front of fans, They didn't have
any reaction, they didn't have the adrenaline going and I
think Bryson loves the show, isn't afraid to show off
a little bit, isn't afraid to show his enjoyments on

(37:20):
the golf course and get people fired up and do
things a little differently than most professional golfers. And I
think that over time, he's maturing as a human being
and he's also maturing as a golfer. And I think
they all came together last week and I think that Live,
more than anything, and this PGA Tour Live ridiculous spat

(37:40):
back and forth has made the major championships, Claude bigger.
They've made them better, They've made them bigger. And that's
why the major championships are not getting involved in misfight.
They keep inviting Joake Neman too, Augusta Taylor, Goots and
a couple of guys at the PGA. It's going to
continue because the majors are small. They know Claude that

(38:02):
the fight between the PGA Tour and Live is only
elevating their events because their events are the only ones
that Bryson and Brooks and Dustin and Cam and all
these guys get to play against the guys on the
PGA Tour. And it was a win win for everybody
last week, but Bryson was the show. Alexander stole the
show by winning, but Bryson was the show over the

(38:27):
course of the weekend, especially on Sunday. Man it was
just fun to watch them out to compete again. It
was cool.

Speaker 1 (38:35):
Witness insurmountable deficits turn into unforgettable victories at the Travelers Championship,
the northeast one and only PGA Tour signature event. See
Scotty Scheffler, Worriye McElroy, Victor Hovlin, Patrick Cantley, and returning
champion Keegan Bradley, as well as other PGA Tour stars
in all four days of the competition at close by

(38:57):
TPC River Highlands the Excitement teas all June nineteenth through
the twenty third. For tickets and information, visit Travelers Championship
dot com. The Travelers Championship there is only one you mentioned,
you know, the majors. I mean because to me, in
this whole kind of PGA Tour live thing that we've

(39:20):
all been involved with over the last couple of years,
the majors to me hold all the cards, but they're
the ones that can say, listen, you guys fight this out.
I thought that Seth Wall and the PGA, you know,
inviting some of the live guys was a good thing. Listen.
I think at this point, if I keep saying this,

(39:42):
if you're anti live and PROPGA Tour at this point
in twenty twenty four, with all the evidence and all
the information that's out there, you're doing that strictly for
your own reasons. Right. If you're ANTIPGA Tour and you
fiercely live and you're you're one of those, well you're
doing that for your own reasons as well. Right the game,

(40:03):
I think we are seeing that the narrative that going
to live means you can't play anymore. I think this
is the second year in a row where we've had
a live player almost win a major championship and come
in second. Happened at the Masters last year when Brooks
finished second to John Rahm. He went on to win
a major, you know, a couple weeks later. But again,

(40:25):
there is still a narrative out there that if you
go to live it only prepares you for three round
tournaments and stuff. I think we are seeing that golf
is golf and the other thing. Sandy and I said
this to my dad last week when I had him
on the pot as well. There is an eye test
in golf that those of us and this isn't an
arrogance thing that I'm saying that we go, but those

(40:47):
of us that are around these players day in day out,
week in week out, year after year, as much time
as we spend around the professional game, there is an
eye test. You know who the good players are, regardless
of where they play, right, And I think now more
than ever is there is going to be an eye
test because I don't see I mean, I don't see

(41:09):
anything happening anytime soon. I mean I think next year
at this time, we're still going to be talking about
whether there's a merger or not. But I do think
that when you see players and you look at their
results and you look at whether they've been winning, how
they've been playing, there, to me, there's an eye test.
And Bryson D. Chambeau, regardless of whether he's playing live

(41:33):
or not, Bryston D. Shambau is one of the best
players of the world.

Speaker 2 (41:36):
Yeah, I don't. I don't know where he was in
the official World Golf ranking coming into the PGA, and.

Speaker 1 (41:41):
It's thirty five now, but I think he was in
the hundreds before, so he jumped I mean for thirty five.

Speaker 2 (41:48):
First of all, he's not the thirty fifth best player
in the world. Second of all, he's not in the hundreds. Okay,
So the Official World Golf Ranking is clearly a little
bit skewed because of what's going on with LIB. But
to me, the most important factor right now, if I
was a live player, is the clock is ticket. The

(42:09):
clock is ticking for them, because if the Official World
Golf Ranking is not going to recognize live and it
continues to keep the players out of the major championships.
For the guys like Bryson, who won the US Open
in twenty twenty, next year is his last year of

(42:30):
those five years twenty one, two, three, four five, So
he's going to have to have these top four finishes
to get back into these majors after next year's four
major championships, as long as he doesn't win one of
the next two or winning one in twenty twenty five.
So to me, you know, I mean, I don't see
it coming together anytime soon either. I don't know, I

(42:53):
have no intel on that, but I think both sides
are kind of you know, thinking one thing and thinking
another thing on one side and vice versa. And I
think they're pretty far apart as far as coming together,
but as far as the guys on Live and the
guys on the tour coming together and playing in these
big events, the majors, Man Claude, you said it. The

(43:16):
majors could end this that they wanted to. They sure
majors wanted to end it. They could just say hey, sorry,
not coming. But they're not doing that because it benefits
that And I don't blame them whatsoever. I think this
is the PGA Tour and lives fight. I do not
think the major championships are going to get involved anytime soon.

(43:39):
To put this aside.

Speaker 1 (43:40):
Fred Ridley, who's the chairman at Augusta Nashvill and his
press conference, said, this is an invitational. There always a
criteria to be you know that they have for players
top fifty in the world and stuff like that. But
the Masters has always been an invite. I mean every
year the players that get invited, you know, they get
their they post on social they get an invite, they

(44:03):
get you are invited to the tournament. So there isn't
anything stopping the major championships from saying, listen, we're going
to have a criteria for our tournaments. There's four of
them a year, and these are the people that we
are going to allow to play.

Speaker 2 (44:22):
I will say, Claude, I do think if it goes
beyond next year, Okay, if it does go beyond next year,
I can see one of the majors. I don't know
which one, but I could see one of the majors going, Okay,
clearly they're not going to settle this argument, so we
are going to have to do something to ensure that

(44:44):
our field is going to be the best it can be.
So maybe I could see one of the majors going
two or four of the top live earners who are
not already exempt for our events will be exact. I
could see that happening. I don't think it's going to
happen in the next two major championships, but it could
happen in twenty twenty five. And I could definitely see

(45:06):
it happening in twenty twenty six if this is still
going on, as you said, a year from now, because
they don't want to, you know, look, the PGA Championship,
Caluse understands you don't have Bryson there last week. Well,
I mean, what are we looking at here? You know,
I mean, Xander's a great player, but you need to
have a tet, do tet. You can't have, you know,

(45:29):
just one person doing it. So, like I said, a
villain in sports can sometimes be a great, great thing.
And I don't mean that in a bad way. I
mean a lovable villain. I used to love watching VJ
Sing play. He was a villain to Tiger. Duvall with
the glasses was a little bit of a villain. You know.
Nicolson was out there doing his thing, Ernie Elis was

(45:49):
doing his thing. Tiger's doing his thing. But you know,
you get a little Patrick Reid in the mix in
the late twenty tens, you know, riling people up. That's
a good thing for sports. You know, you can't have
Rory mister nice guy at Hazel team and not have
Patrick Reed on the other side, you know, pretending to
be Captain America. You can't just be one side. That's

(46:10):
how sports works. So it was great to see bryceon
And the PGA of America understands that Claude. So does
the RNA, so does Augusta National, and so does the USGA.
You take away these guys after one or two more
years and they're literally no longer in the major championships.
That's bad for the majors. Then they'll start getting more involved.

Speaker 1 (46:31):
You mentioned Rory McElroy finished twelfth Big News last week,
you know, off the golf course in his personal life,
but it's ten years now since he won his last major.
In the last major he won was at Valhalla, a
dominant performance at Quail Hollow the week before. I mean,

(46:51):
there's just no way he can't win another major. There's
just no way. The guy is just I mean what
he did at Quail Hollow. You know this. There are
players and then there are players that do what Rory
did at Quaija. I said to him on the range,
there isn't anybody in the game currently that can put

(47:13):
the foot on the gas and just sprint away like
he can't. He did that at Quail Hollow. He's in
the final group with Xander and just puts the hammer
down and wins, going away making it look easy. He
goes to Valhalla where he's won a major before. It's
the last majors one has. You know, it's been ten years.

(47:38):
The stance where We talked about this when you were
on We had you on the podcast. Last year, Rory
took the mantle and took the role as being the
PGA Tours spokesperson. Now we're seeing a little bit more
of the diplomatic Rory. He's got some issues obviously off
the golf course, but there's still two majors left. What

(48:00):
does he have to do, Sanzy to win one? Because
you couldn't design a golfer better than Rory McElroy's, like you,
honestly you couldn't. I mean think about what you what
would you design better? I mean other than the fact
that maybe he needs to be six two or six three,
I mean that's the only thing that you would design differently.

Speaker 2 (48:21):
I mean the only thing this is year realm, not mine.
The only thing that I think he truly needs is sharpen.
The wedge play, the short iron play, the proximity to
the hole is he giving himself? You know, when these
guys are eight to twelve feet versus twelve to eighteen feet,
the difference percentage wise, you know, you could go down

(48:43):
that rabbit hole. But my gosh, when when Rory is
playing well, I still think he's the best player, and
that includes Scotty Shaffler, But he hasn't done it in
ten years at a major. He has done it plenty
of times since then at non majors, and that of
players as well. He's also performed well in the Ryder Cup.

(49:03):
In a pressure ized situation like that, it's impossible to
think that he's not going to win another major. Impossible.
Quail Hollo, by the way, host of PGA next year,
in case you're wondering, he's won there four times. So
you know, I don't know, man, is there something missing
from his game? No? Is there something missing from the

(49:27):
way he approaches it. No, he just hasn't gotten there,
not yet, not in the last ten years. But you
have to think it's gonna happen. So to me, you
got to get off to a good start, because he's
gotten off to shaky starts. But he got off to
a good start, a decent start on Thursday at the PG.
I think Xander just kind of ran over the rest

(49:49):
of that field with that sixty two. But you know,
there's no reason at all, Claude that he doesn't perform
well at Pinehurst. He's already wonted an Open championship, that
would have been the one. You would think that he
would of one. He's probably the most Americanized European player
who's ever played on the PGA Tour, growing up in
the Tiger era. He hits the ball, high, hits the
ball far, hits with lands and softs. It's not like

(50:11):
he's running it out there, you know, like traditional European
players before him. So there's nothing holding him back, Lad,
there's nothing. How could he not win another major championship.
It's absurd to think that he could not. I still
think when he's playing his best, he is the best.
And I agree with you that he's the only person
in golf today. Although Scotty won by five at the Masters,

(50:33):
one by five at the Players, so he can. He
can sprint out there like secretary and leave everybody in
their dust as well. So I put Scotty in that
category with Rory as far as being able to run
away and hide. But those are the only two right now.

Speaker 1 (50:47):
In fourteen, when he won his fourth major at Valhalla
ten years ago, how many did you think he'd have
by twenty twenty four?

Speaker 2 (50:55):
Oh God, I thought no fordigious first, I thought for
Or he was going to get to ten. I did
not think he was gonna get to eighteen. I didn't
think he was going to get to Tigers fourteen at
the time he won his fifteenth and twenty nineteen. But
I thought he was going to crap up on double
digits because at the time I thought, Okay, he's gonna

(51:16):
win a Masters, and he's going to clip off a
PGA at a US Open and Open somewhere, and then
all of a sudden he's gonna end up with eight
nine or ten. But I also thought, and I don't
know what you thought. Maybe you and I talked about
this after he won a Valhalla in twenty fourteen. That
was his second PGA, so he had won the twenty
fourteen Open, okay, And after he won the Open in

(51:40):
twenty fourteen, he then needed the Masters to win the
career Grand Slam. To me, that's the most difficult of
the four. Only Gene Sarah's in in thirty five did
it had no offense to the Squire. We loved the Squire,
but the Masters wasn't quite the Masters in nineteen thirty five.
So as it's gotten farther and farther away away from him,

(52:01):
it's gotten more and more difficult for him at Augusta,
and I thought at the time, I'm going to give
him five chances to win the Masters, and it's well
beyond five. So you know, I hope I'm wrong, and
I hope he wins it, and I hope he becomes
the sixth player to win the career Grand Slam Claude.
But it's impossible to me to think that he hasn't
won a PGA or a US opener and opened since then,

(52:22):
the open at St. Andrew's, I mean, you know PGA's
US Opens. I mean, come on, man, how does he
not have more than four majors. It's just incredible. And
if he does win one, you know, he might just
walk off and say see it. But if he wins
another one, but I hope he keeps going because it's
just impossible to me to think that he has not

(52:46):
won at least a fifth, sixth or seventh major by now.
It's amazing.

Speaker 1 (52:51):
Victor hovlin Vic gave us a little insight. Vic said
he wasn't even gonna play, thinking about not even playing
last week and git on the back nine, I mean
toe for toe with Xander with Bryson. Vix joined the
Floridian where I'm a member out. I've watched Vic over
the last offseason. You know, coach, different coaches, trying different stuff.

(53:17):
Said he wasn't playing good. He was working with Joe Mayo.
He rinses Joe Mao. He goes to Grant Waite, rinses
Grant wait goes back to Dana Dalkquist, rinses Daarkuist. And
then Monday, Tuesday, Wait, Victim his his caddy, Shaye Knight.
You know Shay very well. I saw Shay on Wednesday.
I was like, Yo, where's your boy. He's like, oh,
he's not getting it till tonight. He's in Vegas. So

(53:39):
he flies out, works with Joe Mayo again and then
lights it up. I mean just lights it up. Three
sixty six is in a sixty eight and had a
putt on the last hole to to get to twenty under.

Speaker 2 (53:56):
I think that Victor Hoblin. I might text him at
after we're done two eight one seven. Oh wait, I
don't want to give out your number here on the podcast.
But he needs to call Claude Harmon and he needs
to needs to get Claude Harmon involved. And then all
of a sudden he'll get.

Speaker 1 (54:14):
To the face just to quit. He needs to quit
messing around with his golf swing. I said that to
his caddy. I said, listen, mate, and I'm jokingly I
said it. I said, listen, we've we've watched this, right.
The guy won the FedEx Cup in October and now
he's thinking in May of not even playing. And this
game sansy in an effort and we have seen this,

(54:36):
in an effort to try and get better, in an
effort to try and get to the next level and
do the right thing. You can fuck it up and
go backwards, and sometimes it cannot be repairable because you've
lost what you had. And I think Vic at the

(54:57):
end of last year, I thought he was the best
player in the world. I didn't think, you know, Speci
after the Writer Cup. I couldn't. There wasn't anybody playing
better golf than him to win the FedEx the way
he played in the Writer Cup. And it's a delicate
balance of if you're going to come in and you know,
if you win a Super Bowl and you're going to
fire every coach and change schemes and go from a

(55:20):
running team to a pack. I mean, it can go
south on you if if you don't, And I hope
that Vic we're seeing that this is now the resurgence
of him going Okay, let me go back to what
I was doing that helped me get to the level
that I was at and maybe not mess around with
it so much.

Speaker 2 (55:37):
Yeah, I think that Xander switching coaches and messing around
with his swing and then winning the PG is not
going to help that argument. I agree with that, but
I think it's a copycat league. You know, players look
at other players and go, let me try that, you know,
that kind of thing. And for Victor, I think Victor's
mind needs to keep spinning and needs to keep moving forward.

(56:00):
You know, it takes a certain personality to be Adam
Scott and never change your golf swing, not that you'd
ever need to because it's so aesthetically beautiful, but he's
never changed it. You know, Tiger swing was seemingly perfect
and then all of a sudden he changed it, you know,
and change it multiple times. So you know, Victor's just
he has one of those personalities. I love Victor, I

(56:21):
love being around him. He's a terrific kid. He's got
so much game. I was so happy to see him
playing well. I was hoping he was going to make
that putt because it was going to be a playoff.
Let's make it a three way playoff, not a two
way playoff. But I don't know. It's I think Victor
has the opportunity to be a top five player consistently
over the course of the next fifteen years. But he

(56:43):
might need to pick a side. He might need to
pick what side he wants to take. And it's it's
it's not easy to be that great and to have
the personality that says, okay, got to keep improving, got
to keep doing this, got to keep doing this. I'll
tell you what he has done. I mean, first of all,
you've been around him. He's a wonderful guy. I love him.
I'll tell you what's amazing. How about the improvement he's

(57:04):
made with his chipping and pitching.

Speaker 1 (57:06):
Oh yeah, I mean he did with Joe Mayo. I
mean he's he was a fifteen handicapper. I mean he was.

Speaker 2 (57:14):
He was bad when Dustin Johnson had trouble with his
chipping and pitching, and he improved it to the point
where all of a sudden, You're like, man, these guys
work so hard on their game. I understand the fluidity
of it and wanting to keep improving. I don't understand.
I've asked Tiger this, I've asked every player this. Why
do you want to keep changing everything so much? Why

(57:34):
not just tweak here and there? You know, It's not
as if a shooter in the NBA, a guy who's
you know, has a jump shot in the NBA, is
going to completely change his stroke just because he has
two bad games. The NFL. You don't change your throwing
motion just because you throw a couple of picks a
couple of games in a row, so the full fledge changes.

(57:55):
I don't understand the tweaking. Totally understand that Victor's a great,
great player. It was awesome to see him play well again,
and hopefully that puts him in the headspace moving forward
that's going to allow him to just continue to be
a great player. I feel like sometimes he gets in
his own way. I don't know that for a fact,
you would maybe more than me, But sometimes guys like him,

(58:17):
you know, with that personality, they get in their own way.
They're just so great, there's such geniuses of what they do.
They feel like they have to keep improving and sometimes
they get in their own way.

Speaker 1 (58:32):
Lastly, Sansy, it's tough to watch tw man. It's tough
to watch Tiger and every time he plays it's the
same thing. He shot sixty two in the practice round
and lit it up in the practice round and stuff.
And yeah, I mean, we're still going to see Tiger

(58:54):
hit great shots. We're still going to see because he's
still a great player. But I just don't know if
we're going to see Tiger play great if he can't
play more. I mean he I mean, he said that
in his press conference on Sunday or on Friday when
he missed a cut. He needs, he needs to play more,

(59:16):
but he can't play more because of the body. And
it is you know this. When he is on the range,
you feel it. When he walks onto the range, you
feel it. There is an energy. When he is on
property at a tournament, it's a different feel. When he's
getting ready to tee off, it's a different feel. The

(59:38):
morning wave. If Tiger's in the morning wave on Thursday Friday,
it's it's different. If he's in the afternoon wave, it's different.
You guys televise it differently. When he's going to be
playing but it is. I can't imagine. You know him,
I know him. I can't imagine how frustrat this must

(01:00:00):
be for him. For as much as he still wants
to play, and for as great as he was, it's
got to be killing him. Not being able to play
more and playing like he's playing to kill.

Speaker 2 (01:00:16):
It's got to be killing him. It's just got to
be so frustrating. When you're that competitive and you've been
that great, to not be able to do it at
the level you're accustomed to has got to be incredibly frustrating.
I thought the the the press conference at the Master's
Claude and the press conference at the PGA were there
were stark differences there, subtle but stark differences. When he

(01:00:40):
was asked at Augusta, when he was on the podium
on Tuesday before the Masters, why do you keep doing this?
Why do you keep doing this to yourself? Why do
you keep getting after it? And he just kind of
smiles that I love the game. I love to compete
that kind of thing. I wouldn't be here if I
didn't think I had a chance to win. I wouldn't
do this if I didn't think I could still win.
I totally one hundred percent believe him. I do, I

(01:01:02):
really do. I don't think he's snowing anybody on that
Fast forward four weeks the Tuesday before the PGA Championship
tempered expectations. We'll have to wait and see how it goes.
That kind of stuff. It wasn't the same conviction, and
it makes me wonder does he have it just an
inkling in his brain where he's thinking, I don't know

(01:01:26):
if I keep doing this against the best players in
the world who are playing three out of every four
weeks or two out of every four weeks on tour
or on live or wherever they're playing in golf, and
they practice every day, and they work out every day,
and they hit balls, and they chip and pitch and
they put and all the things that I used to

(01:01:47):
do every single day to make me the best player
of my generation. He can't do those anymore. Claude, and
the guys he's playing against they do. They're twenty to
twenty five years younger than he is. They are incredibly
accomplished major champions because he no longer has that vacuum
and sucked out all the air of every major championship,

(01:02:07):
and these guys now have the grit, the game, the
experience and the moxie to play every single week. And
you know, it's tough to watch him not play well.
It's tough to watch him struggle, although I didn't see
him limping, you know at the PGA, which I thought
was great, but not severely. But it's tough. Man. Like

(01:02:27):
you said, as a sports fan, you want to watch
the best players play their best. You want to see
one of the great quotes I've ever heard from Rendez Barber,
the Hall of Fame cornerback of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.
All you want in life is to be the best
of yourself when it matters most. And Tiger can't do

(01:02:49):
that right now. Doesn't mean he can't do it at Pinehurst,
doesn't mean he can't do it at Royal Troon, but
it sure doesn't look like it right now that he
can go four days including a practice round or who
with nine holes before that? Can he do it all
four days physically and not being as razor sharp as
you normally would be because you're only playing once a month.

(01:03:09):
You know that difference, The difference between me and you
being in a golf cart with Brooks Koepka and Dustin
Johnson with a couple of beers in our cart, telling
stories and playing a practice around and hanging out at
home at the grove at the Floridian. That's a lot
different than being inside the ropes at Pinehurst, and it
just is a wholly different deal. So I don't know

(01:03:32):
if Tiger's going to be able to do it. I'm
never going to count him out, but it sure hasn't
looked great in his first two major championships.

Speaker 1 (01:03:40):
What do you think at this point, Sansey? The motivation
is then, because obviously.

Speaker 2 (01:03:46):
To win we judged.

Speaker 1 (01:03:47):
We judge Tiger off of a lens that you don't
judge anyone off of. It's not like Michael Jordan kept
playing at this stage of his career, right, it was
over by this point, right, mj was done. So when
we look back at Michael's career, we never really got
to see him in this Tiger phase of his career

(01:04:12):
to where he's showing up at tournaments and he's not
playing well, And it's just I just don't understand how
much longer he would want to do this. Knowing him
the way that I know, he is the most competitive
human being I've ever met ever, right, and this has

(01:04:37):
got to be killing him for him to go out
and play the way he's playing, And I just wonder,
why does he want to keep doing it?

Speaker 2 (01:04:45):
None of us will ever understand what it's like to
be Tiger Woods. It's impossible to know. Even those of
us who are around him on the periphery like we are,
it's impossible to know exactly what it's like to be
Tiger Woods. I agree with everything you just said, especially
the part with why, Like, at what point is he
going to say, Yeah, this is just killing me and

(01:05:09):
I just for me to tie for forty seventh if
I make a cut, or for me to struggle to
make a cut, or for me to miss a cut.
It's just not who I am. It's not who I've been.
And at some point he's going to come to the
realization and he's just going to say, you know what,
I don't want to do this anymore because I'm just
not good enough to do it. I'm not healthy enough
to do it. And that's a brutal thing to find

(01:05:30):
out in sports. If I was an athlete, if I
was Tiger, I would play as long as I could.
You never know when lightning's going to strike and you
can put four days together, but you do conjure up
these images of Joe Namath playing for the Rams and
Willie May's playing for the Mets, and you're like, yeesh, Now,
no one's going to think about this part of his
career and not the fifteen major wins in the eighty

(01:05:53):
two regular PGA Tour victories pg R Tour victories. With
eighty two, no one's going to think, oh, you know
this and the other thing. But it is tough to
watch as a sports fan, as someone who's been around
him for twenty five years. You know, I just want
him to be happy, and if this is making him happy,
go ahead. But like you, I would have to think

(01:06:15):
it's probably more frustrating than anything else. I mean, he
can't compete against the best players in the most pressurized situation,
against full fields at major championship venues which have the
most difficult setups. Save for what happened last week with
the scoring in Valhalla, you're asking a lot to have
majors be the only time you play golf. Is he

(01:06:38):
going to play the Memorial claud and then the US Open?
I don't know. You know he didn't play Bayhill or
the players before playing the Masters. That had to have hurt.
You know. You know that prep is everything, man, and
you just can't compete against these guys. These guys are
playing golf every day of their lives, getting ready for
these big events. They're healthy, hungry, ready to go. Golfs

(01:06:59):
are only focus. You know, Tiger's got kids, he's injured,
he can't play as much as he used to, he
can't practice much as he used to. He's forty eight
years old, his body is sore, and he's got a
lot going on. I mean, it's just it's just really
really difficult.

Speaker 1 (01:07:13):
Well, hopefully we will see four good rounds put together.
I'd just like to see him put together four good rounds. No,
and listen, I mean he played four rounds at the Masters,
but on the weekend. I mean, you know that he's
just basically trying to get through the round. It would

(01:07:36):
be amazing to see Tiger shoot, You're just somewhere four
rounds in the sixties, finish twentieth, you know, and not
have those not have it be Is he going to finish?
Is he going to make the cut? I mean, because
to me, that's That's the sad thing right now, is

(01:07:56):
I mean us open. The narrative is got to be okay,
does he first of all, can he finish? And can't
he make the cut? And that's not where I think
I want to see Tiger Woods playing. I just don't
want to see that. I don't want to see that.

Speaker 2 (01:08:14):
I'm with you if you believe that the smart people
out in the Nevada Desert know what they're talking about,
and they usually do, because the last time I saw
a casino close was never so not in Nevada anyway.
And he was minus two thirty five to miss the
cut at the PGA. Okay, for those who aren't in

(01:08:36):
the gambling world, that's a pretty heavy favorite, which means
that they think it's going to happen. Pretty heavy favorite
that he's going to miss the cut. That's at the
PGA now, if he doesn't have a start before Piners, Pineers,
I would assume would have a little bit more of
a difficult setup than the PGA, especially Vahalla last week
because of all the rain and the moisture. So what

(01:08:59):
are the odds going to be at Pinehurst to make
the cut? You know, it's it's tough man. It's Tiger Woods, Claude,
Tiger Woods. We shouldn't be talking about can he make
the cut or not? We should be talking about Kenny
win or not. That's it. And if Tier wants to
continue doing this, totally his prerogative. It's great seeing him
out there, Fans love seeing him out there. But if

(01:09:20):
he wants to continue to punish himself in this regard,
I just would be surprised if he keeps going on
and on like this. I just can't imagine that he's
okay going out there and being someone who's looked upon,
is whether he going to make the cut or not,
and basically being a ceremonial golfer. He said for years
he wouldn't be that, but currently right now it looks

(01:09:41):
like he is. And I you know, he can do
whatever he wants as far as I'm concerned. It's just
great seeing him out there, but I just can't imagine
how often he's going to keep putting him out there,
putting himself out there and having these types of results.

Speaker 1 (01:09:53):
Well, and the amazing thing is, I mean the short
game that he's showing us. I mean, if he didn't
have a short if he didn't have a short game.
I mean, there's no telling what some of these scores
would because the way some of the shots he hit
at Augusta were unbelievable. And you can see him in
his practice sessions. I think the golf swing Sansy looks

(01:10:14):
like what he can do. I think he's figured out
a way that he can move in a way that
he can swing the golf club. But I watched him
go over to the short game area during one of
the warm ups, and you're watching the short game and
you're watching how he does things, and it's still like
watching Picasso paint. I mean, the guy's short game is
is ridiculous.

Speaker 2 (01:10:35):
Doesn't that make sense? You're the instructor, not me. Doesn't
that make sense? You know, with his body and how
sore he is and how beat up his body is,
the thing he can work on the most is a
short game because he's not doing the full swings. The
full swings are the ones that he's gonna have the
most difficult with.

Speaker 1 (01:10:51):
Right Yeah, now, listen, the short game still looks amazing.
It's just you know, he was such a great champion.
I was lucky enough to be around owned for kind
of the Butch harmon Tiger era. I mean, I saw
it all. And I always say this about Tiger. As
good as people think he was, he was better. He's

(01:11:12):
one of these people that because a lot of this
younger generation of guys never really saw it. They never
saw it up close. They didn't know what it was like,
they didn't know what the tournaments were like. So when
I look at Tiger now, it's upsetting to me to
watch because I got to watch Tiger in the day
and it was so much better than people remember. He

(01:11:35):
was so much better. It's just crazy to see how
his body just won't let him do what he wants
to do. And I just think that's gotta be that's
gotta be killing him.

Speaker 2 (01:11:50):
Oh, it's got to be killing him. He was literally
the definition of intimidating. He was intimidating to players when
he walked onto the range. He was intimidating when he
was in the locker room. He was intimidating when you
were on the practice putting green. And let me tell
you something. I've had players tell me this before. Claude.
It's one of the coolest things ever. Whether you're watching

(01:12:10):
on TV or you're lucky enough to be there in person.
The coolest thing when Tiger's playing on the first tee
when he gets announced. Most guys get announced. Now on
the tee from Jupiter, Florida. Here's Claude Harmon, now on
the t from Washington, d C. Here's Steve Sands now
on the tee the nineteen ninety nine, two thousand, two
thousand six. You just keep going, thousand and seven, You

(01:12:32):
just keep going. You're gonna miss your tea time because
his announcement is so long, and he is literally the
most intimidating golfer who's ever played the sport. You could
argue whether he's the greatest of all time, you cannot
argue that he was an intimidating force out there. And
by the way, when he still comes to an event,

(01:12:54):
even if it's only once a month or once every
couple of months, when he comes to an event, it's
a whole different happening. Man. He completely changes the temperature
when he walks onto the grounds, no matter where he goes.
It's amazing, it is.

Speaker 1 (01:13:09):
It is fascinating to feel and to see.

Speaker 2 (01:13:14):
He's earned it, though he's earned every second. Tiger too much,
You show him too much, show nobody shows him too much,
because guess what. The first thing anybody asked when they
don't see the golf is what Tiger shoot today? The
second thing they ask is who's leading? It's always Tiger first,
and then who's leading. It's never the other way around.

(01:13:34):
For anybody who says that TV shows him too much,
or podcasts or radio or newspapers talk or write about
him too much, you're wrong, man. He's earned every second
of that one hundred percent.

Speaker 1 (01:13:45):
And listen, it's still great to see him. And it's
still great. I mean, he actually said hi to me,
which is you're normally he's kind of in the zone,
and you you know, I've non listen, I've known Tiger forever.
But he's one of those He's one of those human
beings that I'm not gonna I'm not gonna talk to
him unless you know, you just don't. He's just got that.

(01:14:07):
He there is an intimidation factor to this day. So
I was standing on the putting green and he was
putting near DJ was hitting some putts and everything, and
he walked right past me and he shook his hand down.
He goes, hey, bro, what's up man, Good to see
you he gave me a little hug and everything, and
I was just like, I was surprised because normally, you know,
he doesn't really say much, and so.

Speaker 2 (01:14:31):
I speak to he speaks first.

Speaker 1 (01:14:34):
Oh yeah, you definitely don't speak first. Like I said,
I'd never in a million years be standing on a
putting green and engage conversation with him. I just and
like I said, I used to used to stay at
our house. He used to pick him up from the airport.
I've known him since he was sixteen years old. But
the intimidation thing that you said in the persona that

(01:14:55):
he still has is he is this type of character
to where I would never think of just walking up
to him and saying hi to him. I just, I
just I just wouldn't do it.

Speaker 2 (01:15:08):
I hope he wins the US Senior Open, so that
he has a US Senior Open, a US Open, a
US Amateur, and a US Junior. He'd be the first
one ever to do it right.

Speaker 1 (01:15:18):
He'd be amazing. Sansy always great talking to you. We
said this the last time. One of the downsides of
all this turmoil is there are a lot of people
that we don't get to see as often as we
used to so great. Great to talk to you, and
I will look forward to seeing you at the US Open.

Speaker 2 (01:15:35):
Seeing Pineers. Let's make sure we make some time to
raise a glass.

Speaker 1 (01:15:38):
You got a power. Good to talk to you, but
be good. So some great takes there from Steve Sands,
and we got through a lot. But I think the
performance from Xander, all the things that Scotti Scheffler went
through last week, Bryson, there were a lot of good storylines.

(01:16:01):
But I agree with with with Sandy. It was great
to see all the best players in the world back together.
You can argue listen, I'm done with the arguments, but
I think the Majors we talked about it. The Majors
are the place where you're going to see all of
the players from all the various tours around the world.

(01:16:21):
I hope that continues. Hopefully the governing bodies realize that
they have the power and to showcase the best players
in the world if they so choose. And I think
there are a lot of people that are thinking like that,
and Steve Sands and myself are I am definitely one
of those as well. Son of a Butch comes to
you almost every Wednesday. We will see you next week,