Tommy Fleetwood

Claude welcomes European and PGA Tour pro Tommy Fleetwood to the pod. They discuss his swing, his Ryder Cup experiences, being coached by Butch Harmon, and the launch of the Tommy Fleetwood Junior Academy in Dubai. 

 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
It's the Son of a Butch podcast. I'm your host,
Claude Harmon. This week's guest definitely someone that I've been
trying to get on the podcast for a very very
long time. We're trying to match schedules, and he was
over in Florida right around the end of last year
and got to spend some time with him. Tommy Fleetwood listen.
I'm a huge Tommy Fleetwood fan. I love his golf swing.

(00:22):
I think his golf swing's one of the best in
the game. I like the way he plays, but as
a person is just such a great guy. Works with
my dad, Butch Harmon now lives in Dubai. We've done
some work in our junior program with his two boys,
Oscar and Craig, who we talk about in the pod.
And I'm just like I said, I'm just a fan.
I think it's only a matter of time before he

(00:43):
wins a major, wins a big tournament. That's kind of
the game that I think he has. But I think
he's one of the coolest guys in the game of
golf and someone who if he's hitting golf balls on
the range, I will stop and take a look at
the golf swing, so really really good one. This is
Tommy Fleet would Tommy, We've been trying to do this

(01:03):
for a while, so it's kind of cool to do it.
End of the year for you twenty twenty four, as
a player told me, when you look at your season,
how do you grade it? I mean, as coaches, I
know how we look at our players and gread it.
But I'm always interested as a player. I mean, you
only miss two cuts, four top tens, third at the Masters.
I mean solid year. You won on is it DP

(01:24):
World at the beginning of the year, but no wins,
but a bunch of top twenty fives. I think you're
one of the best players in the game. I think
you've got one of the best golf swings in the game.
But when you grade, you sell that.

Speaker 2 (01:35):
I have to say that, trust me, I don't.

Speaker 1 (01:38):
When you grade yourself. What's the grade you give this year?

Speaker 2 (01:42):
I think, I think it's been a good jet And
I always like I struggle with I struggle with grades
because it's like, you know, what what is what? What
is this successful? You know exactly what Sky going to
give himself because if Skuy's giving himself an A and
now I'm like a you like, but you know, I

(02:02):
think I've had I think I've had a really good year,
and I think, you know, there's there's two sides of it.
There's there's a at the end of the day, obviously,
the results are kind of the only thing that matters
because they're the things in black and white. But there's
also a level of performance. There's where your game has
been at. And I think I've played very, very consistent,
almost as consistent as I've ever been, if not the

(02:24):
most consistent with I would say enough like disappointment in
there and kind of on the edge of yeah, it's
on the edge of me competing a lot for tournaments,
whereas I've just been just a fraction off. So enough
of that to keep you, keep you motivated, keep you

(02:45):
like striving for more in a way, So I've had
a good year. And like you say, when you when
you rattle it off, you know, I did win. At
the start of the year, Masters was a you know,
a great week. The Olympics was something that was unbelievably
and then you know, I made it again. I think
it's under it's underrated how hard it is to make

(03:07):
it to Atlanta, to make it to East Lake, and
you know, I was having a you know, I had
a solid year on the DP world so two, so
there was a lot of good. How do I grade it,
I'm not quite sure. I just know that I'm happy
with a lot and unhappy enough to keep working, you know,
to keep working hard and wanting more.

Speaker 1 (03:25):
What do you feel like you're better at the end
of this season in twenty twenty four than you were
last year?

Speaker 2 (03:31):
Now? That is that is a great question. I think
my level of play across the board is probably fractionally higher.
I think I've definitely played more consistent this year. I
probably had better results last year.

Speaker 1 (03:47):
It's funny how that can happen.

Speaker 2 (03:48):
But I've been more consistent and I've been.

Speaker 1 (03:50):
More consistent, but the results don't show it exactly. So
that's such a weird one because it is you as
the player know what and as the outside looking in
my my role of scorch, I can never get in
the players heads, bodies and stuff. So there will be
times where I think one of the guys will play
good and I didn't really play that good day, and

(04:11):
I'm like, dude, you played good, and they're like, yeah,
I wasn't good. And then there's times where I'll think
they've played bad and they're gonna Actually I have played
pretty good so this year And you say you feel
like you're more consistent this year for you, what does
that mean? And how do you explain what being more
consistent this year versus last year is?

Speaker 2 (04:31):
I would say, so I had I had three or
four really bad days, I would say there was one
at bay Hill where I'd lost my swing, and I
don't I can't remember how many balls in the water
on the the part five at sixth and the day
the day got away and the Open. This year I

(04:53):
played really poor when I expected more for myself. But
in general, my bad days have been better. My game has,
like we can week in week out, whether you have
you know, one or two sort of dodgy days in
practice and then you might not quite play one over
the period of four day Tournamentich you know, you know
you're never going to play great for seventy two holes.

(05:17):
Yeah did back in the day, But I think that
has been at a high level. My lower end, like
I said, aside from like one or two like outrageously
poor days, but in general, like my lower end has
been has been that bit better. So that's kept me
in results wise, that has kept my lower end higher,
so that that's been really good. I didn't put like

(05:37):
I so I had. I had a really good spell
of putting in the middle of the year, and then
from the summer onwards I started I just I struggled
a bit, like and you have to you have periods
when you look at because we're just talking about a year,
but like you always assess the year, but you never
assess like four years or five years or three year
in the cycle. And eventually I remember saying that. I

(05:58):
remember I was. I was at the Masters in twenty
one maybe, and I was I was playing really bad,
you know, I was playing rubbish. And I remember speaking
to Marko Mira and he was talking about the game.
He says, you've been playing really well, and I said, well, actually,
I said, I've been on a bit of a bad
stretch and you know, I've struggled here and I can't
remember what my bill dranking had gone down to. And
he just looked at me and he went, well, yeah,

(06:19):
it's golf, like it's called golf. And he's gone, like,
you'll you know these things when you look at it
over time, like, it's not that bad. It's just like
a slight dip compared to you know, the rest of
the rest of the time. So I think you obviously
boiled things down to a year and yeah, the second
half of the year, like somewher onwards, I could have
put it better in a lot of tournaments and that

(06:42):
probably cost me a bit, But in general I put
it well at the you know, middle part of the year,
drove it really well. I'm played pretty good. Yeah, where
am I compared to a year ago? It's a great question.
I would say just a little bit more consistent lower
end was that fraction bit better.

Speaker 1 (06:55):
I think the fans always hate it when guys play
well and they go, yeah, I didn't have my game today. Yeah,
but it is I think at the level that you
guys are trying to play at, at the elite tour level,
it is trying to make your bad days that little
bit better so that they keep you in the rounds.
I don't think the average golfer realizes how quickly you

(07:18):
can go from kind of being in the mix on
the leader board to one bad hole on a Thursday
or Friday, and you're like Okay, I'm on the cut
all I'm on the cut all day on Thursday today,
I'll be on the cut all day on Friday. For
everyone listening, Tommy, how can everybody's bottom end, they're bad
days get better? Do you feel like that's a technique thing?

(07:41):
Because one of the things that I am very passionate
about is this balance between technique and execution. And I
think everybody listening to this podcast, every time they play
well or play poorly, they just go, I gotta go
to the range. It's got to be my technique. And
I think at the elite profession all tour level that
you play, the margins are so small. So how do

(08:04):
you and your head go about making the bottom end better?
And give me something that our listeners could say, Listen,
let me try that non golf swing related, non technique related,
because as I say all the time, and I use
you as an example, everybody in the game is trying
to improve their technique. And I'm not blowing smoke up

(08:25):
your euse. I watch you hit golf balls if I've
got time. I think you have one of the best
golf swings in the game. I just I love the
way you swing the golf club. But there's so much
more to it performing than just swinging the golf club.
So making that bottom end the not so great rounds better,
how do you go about that? And how can the

(08:47):
average golfer try and make their not so great rounds
not so destructive?

Speaker 2 (08:52):
For me, I think consistency of a certain amount of habits,
you know, keeps you in and around when you do
play well. And I, you know, like everyone else, I
have days where my swing feels way off, like feels
when you.

Speaker 1 (09:09):
Feel like as the type of player you are. I mean,
for everyone listening, their golf swing always feels off right.
For the rest of us, Tommy, our golf swings always
feel shit right, it always feels But for you, when
you say your golf swing feels off, what is that
feeling like to you? And what does that mean to you?

Speaker 2 (09:30):
Probably I could boil it down to a couple of things.

Speaker 1 (09:33):
It's not contact right. You never you guys, you guys
don't ever not hit the golf ball solid, come on.
Compare to everyone else.

Speaker 2 (09:41):
For me, it would be a couple of things. My
transition feels like it's got no time whatsoever, So.

Speaker 1 (09:45):
Get quick in change of direction from backswing to down.

Speaker 2 (09:49):
So then impact is never where I feel like it's
going to be in terms of time.

Speaker 1 (09:53):
I've never heard that, but that makes sense because everybody
always talks about the backswing getting quick or the downswing
getting quick, but I've never heard would someone say that
then makes the impact quicker as well, So you have
less time exactly.

Speaker 2 (10:05):
I know where I want to hit it, and I
know when I should hit it, and when I'm out,
I'm not hitting it at that point. So then but
then for me, transition will be quick and I hang
back on it. But what that does is it brings
in two misses. Yeah, you know the left. The club
can be going left and I can hit it left
or obviously one I don't want to hit it left.

(10:27):
I'll hold on to it, or you know, back up
and it will be going way right. So then and
then I actually remember it. Your your dad told me this.
I remember speaking to him about it, and he went, well,
if you've got two missus where you're going to aim, that's.

Speaker 1 (10:40):
That's that is. That is the problem with the double.

Speaker 2 (10:44):
Miss And so it's.

Speaker 1 (10:46):
Halfway through the round You're like, okay, I've rinsed a
couple left I've blocked a couple of ways.

Speaker 2 (10:50):
Right, You're like, because I've got I've got nothing, and
so like for for me though, I think talking about
that bottom and I think I've been better at noticing
when that is going right. And I've just had a
couple of habits. I have some start line drills that
I'll do hitting between sticks.

Speaker 1 (11:09):
Everybody has seen all the stuff that you do on
social where you put alignment sticks in the ground really close,
but then that stick in front for you that helps
you do what and it helps you visualize.

Speaker 2 (11:19):
What Every range is different, and every range can easily
trick your eye. You just adapt to whatever you're seeing
on any range, and I have been as we and
still sometimes you still don't figure it out. But I'll
be there thinking I'm hitting it, you know, really poor,
and the range will be on like a downhill slope,

(11:41):
and the wind will be off the left, and I'm like.

Speaker 1 (11:43):
Which wind do you hate for practicing.

Speaker 2 (11:46):
Off the left? In off the left? Why? Because you
just start pulling it and shutting the face down to
counteract the fact, Well, you can't react that. And then
the thing is when you pull over it with your
body of the club gets behind you, so then that'll
bring the right in as well, and it just that's
the one that gets you the most out of sync.
And you can feel like you're absolutely flushing it on

(12:06):
the range because you'll hit these like drilled strong flights
that are it goes and it goes nowhere, but it
just looks so it looks so good and you're like
hipping it and then you get on the course and
your timing's all out because you've been pulling it over.
You've got the club face shut and that that's like
that that's the worst win to practice him.

Speaker 1 (12:21):
Do you like your golf swing? Do you like the
way it looks when you look at your own golf swing?
Are you able to detach yourself from the forest and
kind of look at the trees and kind of go yeah?
Or or here's another one whose golf swings? Do you like?
Whose golf swings do you look at and go that's pretty?

Speaker 2 (12:42):
I love Scottishcheffer's girl sing. I love Xander's girl sing.
I mean world number one and two, but I you know,
I love looking at like Okay, so let's.

Speaker 1 (12:53):
Let's break that down. Scotty's golf swing isn't one that
anyone is currently trying to copy, right, everybody, If we
if we asked everybody listening to this podcast, whose golf
swing would you be trying to copy, most people are
going to say yours over Scoutti's. And it's something I've
said before. My uncle Billy, my dad's youngest brother, we

(13:14):
were on the range. I say this all the time,
but it's an important one. We were on the range.
Duvall was hitting balls and Tigers hitting balls. Is when
they were friends. Number one, number two in the world,
and my uncle Billy, I said this recently on the podcast,
but I'll keep saying it. He's like, nobody's trying to
swing golf club like David Duvall. Right, nobody's trying to
teach that. Nobody's trying to get the club based shut
like that move the body. He's like, everybody is trying

(13:36):
to swing the golf club like Tiger Adam Scott. And
he said two of the greatest ball strikers he's ever seen,
hailerwin Shut took it inside, came over it it Fades
won three majors, three US opened tons of tournaments, Trevino
wide open stance, took it outside, dropped it under. So
when you look at Scotty Scheffler's swing, what do you

(13:57):
like about Obviously you know it performed well, so you
love that part about it. Right, When people ask me
about golf swings, I always say, who do you like?
I always say, are you talking aesthetics or are you
talking function? Because of its function, the route is going
to be very different. And if it's aesthetics, it's going
to be guys like you and Nelly and Adam Scott.

(14:17):
I mean, I was with Scutty in Dubai a couple
of weeks ago when he was there. I mean, I've
known him since he was nineteen twenty, and I'm watching
him ball and I'm just like, Adam's golf swing reminds
me of when I was a kid. I used to
watch Freddy Couples hit golf balls. You're just like, that's
the coolest thing. Adam's rhythm has never changed. So Scotty
Scheffler's golf swing, what do you like about it?

Speaker 2 (14:40):
I think it's set up is perfect.

Speaker 1 (14:43):
He and Randy worked the grip, the way he's constantly
checking his grip, and I love the fact that if
he plays poorly or if he plays well, they'll go
to the range and he is working on his setup
actively while they're working on some of the other stuff.

Speaker 2 (14:59):
But I now this, this will sound crazy when I
say it, so like if I if I sort of
went through the things that I like about Scotty's golf swing.
I think he's set ups perfect, and I think his
grit's perfect. I think his takeaway is great. I think
he has loads of room at the top and time
doesn't lose. And then I actually think he's His golf

(15:22):
swing is actually really quiet through the ball, And it
sounds stupid.

Speaker 1 (15:27):
But it is. But it's really if you understand how
the ground works and how people's yeah, feet work.

Speaker 2 (15:32):
Is unbelievably quiet through the ball, and his club's sew
in control and that.

Speaker 1 (15:37):
And it looks so out of control.

Speaker 2 (15:38):
I know that it's crazy, but like when you when
you look at it, you know certain pictures or like
slow most swings, and you look at where you know
how the club works, how his body works with the club,
how everything's always supported like yeah, and by the way
it seems to work. Okay, So give me some shots.

Speaker 1 (15:57):
You've seen him hit in tournaments under competition where you
look at your Caddy Fin and go. Yeah that was
pretty good.

Speaker 2 (16:05):
Now, yeah, now that's a good question. Playing with him.
I'm not so like playing with him. See, everybody always
describes Scotty as like unbelievably impressive without being impressive, and
I think that's a massive compliment to him. But like
I would look at shots. Now, I wasn't playing with
him at the time, but I Shane.

Speaker 1 (16:20):
Lowry said this when I had him on the pod
when you were talking about Scotty, and he said he played
with him at bay Hill, you know, and and when
he won, and he was like, he, Rory impresses you, Right,
Rory has the ability to impress you with the speed,
the lengthy some of.

Speaker 2 (16:36):
The shot he hits, shots that you're like, well, I
can't do it.

Speaker 1 (16:38):
I don't have it, I can't take that.

Speaker 2 (16:40):
But at the same time, Scotty is almost more infuriating
because you're looking at him and you're like, I should
be able to do it.

Speaker 1 (16:46):
And I can't do it.

Speaker 2 (16:46):
He does it all the time and I never do it,
And it's like he's more infuriating.

Speaker 1 (16:52):
Is there an underrated part of his game? Because right
now everything is kind of the ship And I mean,
but is there something you like that and go he
doesn't get enough credit for doing that.

Speaker 2 (17:02):
I think his short game is unbelievable, Joe, And like
when you when you rack it all up. So he's been,
has it? He's been number one off the tea?

Speaker 1 (17:11):
Has he been number one of th category? Is not
number one?

Speaker 2 (17:14):
But but like you know, like unbelievable driver of the
golf ball. His iron players off the charts and the
best and the best in the world.

Speaker 1 (17:19):
He hits four irons and five irons as good as Yeah,
like his long iron game is a joke.

Speaker 2 (17:27):
Good, But then we go on that and then he's
arguably got the best short game in the world. So
then I mean, like what are we left with.

Speaker 1 (17:36):
Everybody says, well, the weekly in his game is his putting,
and I'm like, straight, you can't win the win the
tournaments he's winning and be a bad part.

Speaker 2 (17:45):
He puts great, And it's always the same thing when
when somebody hits it that well and they put themselves in.
The proximity that he does like to gain on the
greens is very very difficult, like the proximity that he
hits it. But he has his putting phenomena this year
he's done. He's done amazing work with Phil Kenyan, who
I've worked with for a long time and I know him,

(18:06):
you know, very close to him from a young age.
So that's been really nice to see like how that
work has paid off and the way that they've worked.
But yeah, I mean his ball control really for me.
And you know, you go back to, like, you know,
the shots that he hits that you always think, well, yeah,
you know, I feel like I should be able to

(18:26):
do that. But the amount of control he has, the
amount of confidence he has in it, and then you know,
you look at emotions wise and how mentally strong he's been.

Speaker 1 (18:38):
And his approach and the way he kind of lives
his life both on and off the golf course is
a massive superpower for him.

Speaker 2 (18:46):
Yeah, and it's almost like, actually, you know when you
talk about it like this and you think about underrated
part his mental energy, Like you know, he won what
eight times nine times? Like to be able to do that,
I mean, he played them. He wins the Masters and
then just turns up at hilton Head and like wins again,
and like I totally you know, I understand how big

(19:07):
of an event Hiltonhead is. Still just want the Masters,
like you're all right if you just feel like a
bit tired and you're like, oh, you know, I'll you know,
I'll play. But and of course, like every time you play,
I never play when I don't want to win or
don't want to play well. And I'll prepare as much
as I can. But then like having the mental fortune

(19:28):
and the mental energy to like be up there again
and and it went into Monday or whatever it did
and and win. Like things like that are unbelievably impressive.

Speaker 1 (19:37):
Xanders Shoffley, what a year, man? So who's year do
you want? You want Scotties here this year? You want
Xander's here?

Speaker 2 (19:46):
Uh, well, that's that's it's a it's a phenomenal question.

Speaker 1 (19:50):
Like so for me, it's easier to it's easier to say, Xander,
when you if you've already got a major, if you've
already got a Master's, like Scutties.

Speaker 2 (19:58):
I know. Well, so like my my straightaway instinct would
be Scottie Master's Olympics. Eight wins, nine wins. Again we've
lost count Felix cut whatever it is like the event
I want to wins the Open and it's under won
it So it's like it's like turned into this impossible
question for me, like which are you going to pick?

Speaker 1 (20:18):
So like I always did you choose the masters of
the open? You choose the open?

Speaker 2 (20:24):
I would yeah, but again I grew up in Southport,
of course, so like, yeah, I've always had this, would.

Speaker 1 (20:29):
You and your dad used to sneak on?

Speaker 2 (20:31):
We did it a couple of times and they kind
of we did it a couple of times and it
kind o No, we were much too smart to get
kicked off what my dad was.

Speaker 1 (20:41):
Did you play?

Speaker 2 (20:42):
No, you couldn't get very far out because they were
just in the corner. It's it's so different now, it's
so like actually I haven't played it since they made
the changes, but you know that, Like, so you've got
the fifth hole, which was always that one in the corner,
and it was kind of like a little dog likes
short off, but there was always a gap that you
could go on to through the roads that was to
the right, and then over time hedges grew up in
bushes and and that will change so you could get

(21:04):
on at that point. But no, we never ventured out
too far. But yeah, like that like the open for
me just growing up in that town and that being
one of the first events I ever went to, It's
always had, you know, a massive impact on me. So
I would pick the Open, But then see, now I
should really go with unders year because I'm like, if

(21:26):
I could win one tournament, I want to win the Open,
and he's won it. But then you're offering me scottis
year play. I mean, the truth is I would take either.

Speaker 1 (21:37):
What about xandras golf swing? The game do you like?
I mean, he's just he's one of those guys that
those of us that are lucky enough to see him
week in and week out and be a part of
this circus of professional golf. But this year it's gone
to another level. Yeah, and his consistency. Everybody kind of

(21:57):
knew that he was going to break out. You just
you knew it. You're very similar. I think everybody feels
the same about you. But when it happens, everybody goes,
all right, this is really really good. What do you
like about his golf swing? What do you like about
his game?

Speaker 2 (22:12):
Again? Go back to the timing room. He has at
the top set up grip very very good, but the
timing roomy has at the top the rhythm that he
has and So if that's sounded like the sneaky speed
that he's got is he hits it. He hits he
hits it.

Speaker 1 (22:27):
People don't realize how farestander can get it out there.

Speaker 2 (22:30):
It is. It a long way with a lot of speed.
But yeah, I've always looked at his swing and loved
like his rhythm and like just sort of how his
arms and hands and body like work together.

Speaker 1 (22:43):
Similar to you and in your caddy. I infinite I
think you guys are one of the best teams out there.
I think it's also helps Xander and Scottie Scheffler. They
have great caddies on their back, Austin Kaiser for for Xander,
and then I think Teddy Scott has been a massive man,
massive upgrade for Scotty, just in the fact that it

(23:04):
just meshes right. Sometimes. It just messaged the relationship that
you have with a caddy. You know, you and your
caddy and grew up together. He was sick, he had
some hord Is shoes and stuff like that. Was it
hard to play without him this year?

Speaker 2 (23:19):
Well, I not have him on the bag. You notice it,
I think, yeah, of course, it's a change. It's definitely
a big change. I was very lucky with the way
that it went that summer in terms of the people
that stood in. I had Adrian from Taylor made for
a couple of weeks, very close to me. Did Gray
the Masters. When I had Gray on the on the bag,
the local caddy was like like phenomenal and a great experience.

(23:41):
And then Dave Clark stood in for I think we
did seven weeks, six weeks or seven weeks, and he
was great. So I was very lucky with the people
I had standing in. Of course, when you've had someone
with you both personality wise and the way that you
would work everything out, you know, day in day out

(24:02):
for whatever seven years, probably since I was eight maybe,
so like it's it's a change, and I actually what
I had to when he when he came back, so
like it was it was great because once we got

(24:23):
past the initial phase of it, had had the operation,
he was okay, you knew he was on the road
to coverment. So that's very calm in then, and you
know that he's going to be back at some point,
so then you're just dealing with you know, working in
a different way with whoever it is. But I was
very lucky and I'm very grateful to the people that
stood in and and I had, you know, a good
time with them, and that was great. But when when
Finnel came back, I I so wanted it to go

(24:45):
so well at the start and like my game and
my attitude like just trying too hard, like early doors,
to like make it this like fairy tale. When he
came back was like was it was that that was
on me. But then and once we got back into
the rhythm of things and in the flow, like we
had a you know, a fantastic end of the year
and played some amazing golf, and it was It's been

(25:07):
great having him back and working together again. What do
you want from a caddy? You want?

Speaker 1 (25:15):
I think, because I think every player is different, right,
Some players are going to want a ton of information.
Some people want a lot. Some people want it to
be a process. Some people want it to be collaborative.
Some people want to be told what to do. Some
people Tiger wanted to make all the decisions. Steve Williams
would give him the decisions. Tiger would make his own decisions.
Some players want the caddy to go no, no, we

(25:36):
do this, and then you do that. What do you
want from a caddy.

Speaker 2 (25:40):
To be able to trust them to make a clear
decision in the most pressurized moments. Ultimately, like that end
that was, that would be what I would look for.
Hard working, hard working, in a great attitude. Really, those
two things or three things that I just mentioned, everything
else will be all right with.

Speaker 1 (26:00):
I don't think I've ever seen you not in a
good mood. Do you have bad days on the golf course?
You get down on yourself?

Speaker 2 (26:06):
Yeah, yeah, I have terrible yeah, just you know, just
like everyone else, I think, honestly, golf is the only
thing that can get me like sort of as riled
up or as disappointed as you know, I'm generally pretty
easy going, very calm, but golf, like I think it's

(26:28):
it's just dealing with your own expectations. Like for all
of us, we put our heart and soul into our
craft and our careers, and then you you know, you
work so hard and the game makes no sense a
lot of the time. You can practice so well and
you feel so good and the course suits you and
you've played really before, and all of a sudden you
just like crash out like it, and and then I
think those are the hardest things to deal with. And

(26:50):
the mental aspects of golf is just like it's it's
like any aspects of your game, iron play, driving, chipping,
put in, fitness, Like mentally that's that's another just part
of the game, and you're going to have good days
and bad days with it. Kids to not beat yourself
up about it. And the key is to learn from
when you do have those bad days, because it will
make a difference. I've made so many mistakes mentally in

(27:13):
the past that have then led to me like either
winning a tournament or having a great finish because I
would have made that mistake earlier, you know, and learned
from it. So as long as you do that and
you keep sort of trying to grow and move forward,
like those bad days are fine. You know, you can't
beat yourself up about it because you've already done it
at that point. But yeah, I, like everyone have those

(27:34):
bad days and get hard on myself, get really down
on myself, disappointed, don't want to speak to anyone that
stuff like it all happens.

Speaker 1 (27:41):
I was doing some research when the Kazakhstan Open twoy
eleven on the Challenge.

Speaker 2 (27:46):
Tour fifth Major.

Speaker 1 (27:47):
Yeah, the fifth major is the kazakstanip and obviously, what
do you know more about golf now than you did
when you won a tournament in twy eleven? Meaning what
do you know more about everybody? Again, it's just thing
that I harp on and on about. Everybody that is
trying to play wants their technique to get better. Yeah,
and your technique is a moving target, right, it's ebbs

(28:10):
and flows. You're gonna have weeks when you pay. But
from the playing of the game. You know, your first
kind of big professional win on the Challenge Store that
got you on the DP World twenty twelve, you qualified.
But what do you know more about playing the game
now than you did when you first were starting out?
I mean, you had a fantastic amateur career. You played
on the Walker Cup, high level, high ranked amateur, but

(28:33):
there's a big difference between playing golf at that level
versus the level that you're playing at now. Do you
feel like you've grown as a player and as a
person on the golf course. Do you feel like you
understand playing better?

Speaker 2 (28:47):
Yeah, definitely. I Mean you're so much more experience because
you've you know, you've had so many different scenarios that
you've had to face and you've either got them right
or wrong. I know more about every aspect of the
game in general. I understand what I want with my
technique more, or I understand how I want to work

(29:09):
more preparation. Preparation is a huge thing. I know so
much more now about how I want to figure out
a golf course, how I want to play a gold
You go.

Speaker 1 (29:17):
About figuring out a golf course, because I think it's
something that everybody listening could take so much for. Go
to the golf course, whether it's your home course, whether
it's a new course. But if golf, go with a
game plan of what you're trying to When you look
at a game plan and you and you're Keddy and
you know, when you guys try and get a game plan,

(29:37):
what are you guys trying to do? And in your head,
what is planning for a round of golf?

Speaker 2 (29:43):
Mean, well, there's always the there's always the ideal way
to play every single golf follow every golf course. Very
rarely are you going to play it like that because
not every shot suittsuoe. And it goes back to the
other thing. You know, when you hit balls on a
range and when you practice, you'll step out on a
golf course and all of a sudden there's water on
the left, left or something. I mean, it just it
just changes. And I think you I think when when

(30:05):
you go out and playing a practice round, I think
being very aware of no matter how you how well
you play. I've never played a practice round that actually matters.
I mean like it's never had any you know, reflection
on my career in any way. It's just a practice.
I've shot sixty in a practice around and I've shot
ninety and.

Speaker 1 (30:23):
It doesn't make a correlation.

Speaker 2 (30:25):
It makes no difference. So I but I almost think
you're better when you well. You are better when you
play bad in practice, because it gives you a heighth
end awareness of shots that you don't like, and you'll
focus in and you'll know that I need to you
know this this whole. You know, I don't like that shot,
or I I just can't seem to start it where
I want to start it. So I will either hit

(30:45):
a different club, or I'll accept that I'm going to
hit it, you know, maybe in the in the left
you know I'm likely to it in the left airway
trap there. I'll just go and hit some shots out
of it. And it's it's more about that's not like
being mentally weak or anything. It's just preparing for lightly
things that will happen greens on and around the greens.
Where do you want to miss it? Where do you
not want to miss it? You're always you know, you're planning.

(31:06):
It's easy when you're playing great. You know you're going
to strike a drive down the middle and you're going
to have an eight iron in and I'm going to
feel like, do you know what, I can go straight
out of it today and I can edit to five
feet and I'll roll the put in because it's fine.
But it's over the course of seventy two holes, there's
periods where you're going to be out of position and
you need to make pars on those holes or you know,

(31:28):
boge it worse. And it's where can I get up
and down from? If that's where I can get up
and down from, let's go practice it, even if it
feels simple or whatever. It is like just things like
that that we would do automatically in a way, but
I guess people might not think about it straight away.

Speaker 1 (31:41):
What's it feel like when you're playing good? I mean,
you've had some incredibly low round sixty three US hoping
it's shin o'clock on one of the hardest golf courses
on the planet. For you guys, when when you're playing good,
are you aware of it? Does it feel different?

Speaker 2 (31:56):
Do you you're just so exciting? Doesn't it feels great?

Speaker 1 (32:00):
Because you guys look so calm when you've got it,
like a good one going what incited? Are you going? Man?
This is fun? Ah?

Speaker 2 (32:06):
Like yeah, you know, I love those rounds where you
feel you feel so confident, you're in a great place
with your swing. You know, you're hitting the shots that
you actually see and you describe.

Speaker 1 (32:18):
The starting where you want them, the story starting.

Speaker 2 (32:20):
Where you want to start. You're hitting it where you
want to hit it in terms of the timing of it,
like go back to impact is where you want it,
things like.

Speaker 1 (32:26):
That, and your caddie's going, hey, we put this fifteen
feet you know, below the hole. We're going to be fine,
and you hit it fifteen feet.

Speaker 2 (32:32):
Yeah, like it just it feels like everybody else playing
the game. We get all those same feelings, like so
much satisfaction in it. You get excited about it. You're
playing great. It's great. I mean, that's what that's all
that is good about the game of golf because it
keeps coming back and that's what you practice for to
have to have those days like that.

Speaker 1 (32:48):
And when you're not hitting it good on the course
as an elite tour player, what does that feel like?
Do you? I mean, is it mental? Are you fighting
your swing? Is it just like nothing's going to work today,
I'm getting bad?

Speaker 2 (33:01):
Or did you well when it goes? There's so many
different elements to it. I mean, when you have the
really bad days like we talked about before we got
two way miss, it's just horrible being out there in
it because you don't you don't know where you're going
to hit it. You generally bail out somewhere. You don't have,
like you don't have a go to shot that you
can even it. It's like it's just it's just a grind,
Like it's just it's just a grind. But they're sort

(33:25):
of those are the days where you really have to
fall back on like being strong mentally, trying to be
as patient and accepting as possible, just.

Speaker 1 (33:33):
You know, you can't maybe string some porous.

Speaker 2 (33:35):
Just yeah, just just keep going because somehow, at some
point it might just click in or you just need
to get off the golf course in those eighteen holes,
go work on something again. Don't don't go trying to
search for it or find it. Go back to what
works for you in those bases, and it might just
come again. And that's why you try and hang around
like where your swing. You try and keep your swing

(33:55):
as close to where it's gonna You know that that's
what makes you hit it well. And even if you're
not hitting it wall Chi, stay is around that as
possible so that it can that it can come back.
But it was equally days where you feel like you're
playing well, you get stuck in between yardages, you get
a couple of bad bounces, like things just don't go
on the bad side of the draw, get the bad
side of draw. Things just don't go your way. It

(34:17):
just it just happens, isn't it. We play golf so
much that you're going to get all of these scenarios
you know, all the time.

Speaker 1 (34:22):
Really, let's talk about sometimes you've played well the Ryder
Cup in eighteen twenty three, I mean, come on, man,
do you have to play that good right before? And
oh in Paris with Frankie. Yeah, you've played with Rory
in Italy and.

Speaker 2 (34:38):
Just pick him up partners.

Speaker 1 (34:39):
Really, that's part of it. You've seen to other than
Whistling Straits, where I don't think anybody on the European
side really played that great and the US guys just
ran through everybody. But you've seen to in the out
of the three two that you've played in, you've raised
your game so much so that the American guys, we'll go,

(35:00):
when does he putt like this? Right? The American guys
always say that they're like, dude, if these guys putted
like this week in and week out, they'd have like
forty majors. Like, is it the situation? Is it? Europe?
Is it the partnership? Is that? What is it? Because
you've you've had two Ryder Cups where you literally couldn't miss,

(35:23):
You're chipping in, you're hooping it from everywhere, you're knocking
it stiff or is it just a snowball of those
type of situations you just go, I'm gonna ride this
thing and we're gonna go.

Speaker 2 (35:35):
I think it's probably all that one.

Speaker 1 (35:37):
Eighteen You and Francesco Mulinari wouldn't necessarily pick you two
guys as a four and O partnership in the Rider Cup.
You just wouldn't know, but you wouldn't. I've never really
seen you guys like be like Jordan and JT, where
you guys are going everywhere together, You're having dinner on

(35:57):
and off. That's my point. Some of those were relationships,
like Brooks the first Ryder Cup he got in Minnesota,
they asked him who he didn't want to play with.
He and Brent Sneddecker both put each other because they said,
we play terrible together. Every time we play. They played great,
They won all their matches with a great partnership. They
had a blast. They bonded together. So when did you

(36:18):
know that you and Frankie were kind of going to
be like, Okay, we're going to be that team of
the Writer Cup this time.

Speaker 2 (36:23):
Well we yeah, we didn't. We wanted to play together.

Speaker 1 (36:27):
Similar type games, yeah, similar.

Speaker 2 (36:33):
Yeah, and almost like similar personalities to the point, you know,
friends so easy to be around. It's funny, like very dry,
very funny. And you always enjoyed his company, like We've
always found each of this company so easy. So I've
always got one great. So we wanted to play together.
You obviously don't know. Like most of the time, you
just leave it to the captains to decide. You obviously

(36:55):
say you would like to play with, but again, you know,
the guys these days, they use so many stats and
they have, you know, what pairings they think will work,
and you go with that, and you just the captain.
And I think me and Frank got a run out
on that Friday morning. We were actually two down through
ten holes and Fran was playing unbelievable at the time

(37:19):
it won the Open that year. He was pretty much,
you know, best player in the world at the time,
and he went on a run there and then we
just kind of got going. But I do think we
played so we went the last group out on that
Friday both. I'm pretty sure we were last group out
in the morning and the afternoon, or maybe we were
third in the afternoon. But we were lay on when

(37:40):
we managed to get through that morning because we were
three nail down in Paris Friday morning and me and
Fran came through like we managed to survive our match
and get through it. But then the afternoon struck and
all we did I'm sure we were last. All we
had to do was just play because the cheers and
the crowd and the rest of the team. We're just like,

(38:01):
the momentum was so much that we just played. We
were in such a great spot being at the back,
you just rode that wave of what was going on
and like cruised through that day.

Speaker 1 (38:12):
If you've never been to a Ryder Cup, and obviously
for everyone listening, they're never really going to be a
part of one, there is something about when you know
the rest of the team is on a roll, if
you're playing at home, it magnifies Just does it make
you feel like you're almost kind of I can free
wheel it now because.

Speaker 2 (38:32):
Yeah, playing at homes well, it clearly is a big
advantage because we're looking at the results how they've been.
I think Roy put it really well when he said
he felt like one of the hardest things to do
in golf was winning away or out a cup. And
it is for sure, because you know, there's one thing
like changing momentum in a match, it's another thing changing
the momentum of sixty thousand people in you know, when

(38:53):
it's three matches or four matches, you know, whatever it is,
it's a whole different like scenario. And it is difficult
because you know so so for for the away Rider
Cup that I played Americans, unbelievable and we didn't play
how we wanted to, but like still I hit some

(39:14):
great shots at times and it was like just greeted
with silence, you know, because that's just what it is.
And I remember being me and Victor got off to
a really good start in one of the matches and
we were three up to eight I think, and JT
hold like a forty foot pot on nine like this
big curling put, unbelievable pot, but like this, the noise

(39:36):
in the sen off was unbelievable, like and you would
think they were three up, and it's like, you know,
it's it's mom just it just it does just have
such an impact. And there's there's something if you you know,
there's something beautiful as well about trying to go against
all that momentum and trying to like squash it. But
it's just very hard. It's just very difficult, but you

(39:56):
have to enjoy it like there, right, you know, that
that atmosphere that you get the Rider Cup both home
and away, it's like it is, I mean, you dream
of playing in those situations and in those you know,
in front of those crowds and for you are against you.
It's still like the most you know, it's the most
amazing experience.

Speaker 1 (40:16):
Italy twenty three. You get paired with Rory McElroy. I've
got to ask you just how fucking good is this guy?
I mean, how good is this guy?

Speaker 2 (40:27):
You know? We so good. We went for the So
we went for this practice day like two weeks before
they ride a Cup. Were just just a day the
whole team went and we so like Luke had gone through.
You know, we were playing in four balls of what
our potential parents would be. And me and Rory both
play we don't play the same golf ball, play similar

(40:49):
golf ball, so they know each other well. So we're talking.
You know, he's talking about playing foursomes and Eduardo we
had this like we had this course planner and there
was like so what you got is you would open
the course planet and there was a dot on the
holes which was like the ideal T shot. So like,
if you can get it there, that's the absolute ideal
T shot. I mean in general, if you're going to

(41:10):
it three hundred down the middle, you're in the ideal spot.
So I'm looking at you know, I'm looking at the
idea t shot on the first and I've hit mine,
So Rory steps up. He's hit it forty yards past
the ideal blue dot in the middle of the fairway,
and I was like, I'm gonna be fine. I'll play
with Rory. And it is amazing. It's it's amazing playing

(41:31):
with him. I I really enjoyed getting to watch sort
of what he There's there's watching the shots that he hits,
but there's also like in certain positions that I would
put him that was definitely far from my deal what
he actually would then see, Like he sees shots.

Speaker 1 (41:49):
I don't think he gets enough credit for being as
creative as you.

Speaker 2 (41:52):
He sees shots that I mean, I can't hit that
I can't see. And you know, there'll be times when
I'm like, you know, I'm like looking, I'm thinking, what's
he what's he looking out? Like, what's he doing? Just
let him go because it's Roy Mackerroy, and you have
no idea whether he can pull it off or not,
but like, if anybody can, it's going to be Rory.
So it was I really enjoyed watching. Obviously, I enjoyed

(42:12):
playing with him as partner because he's unbelievable golf. But
watching like shots that he saw as well was really cool.

Speaker 1 (42:18):
It must be when you're playing with Rory. It must
be hard not to watch it.

Speaker 2 (42:21):
Oh yes, regardless of what tournament, it's great, isn't it
when you watch him drop?

Speaker 1 (42:25):
I mean there must be times where he hits driver
in a tournament on a hole and you look at.

Speaker 2 (42:31):
Each other and go, everybody everywhere is that going? Everybody
does it? Don't everybody does it? You're like, oh my god,
that's dead. No, it's just a completely different line that
you didn't think of. It's in the middle of the
and then you get down.

Speaker 1 (42:43):
There around the corner and you go, look where he's one.

Speaker 2 (42:47):
You're like, why is why is he not in a provisional.

Speaker 1 (42:50):
But they formed friendships those Ryder Cups, right, yeah, yeah,
whether you win or lose, I think it's and I've
said this on the pod before when Brooks first made
the first Ryder Cup, I said, you will never not
want to be on one of these. You never want
to make And whether you win or you lose, those
weeks for you, what do you take away from those weeks?
You've been a part of three of them.

Speaker 2 (43:09):
Now, yeah, I take away a lot of inspiration, a
lot of motivation. Be like you said, being part of
a Rider Cup team. First of all, you're with the
twelve best players of your continent. They're all phenomenally players
and exactly twenty twenty four of the best players in
the world. So you take a lot of motivation from that.

(43:31):
You obviously don't want to miss another one, so you're
you're you know, you're driven to try and do whatever
it takes to make the next one. And there is
a there is a bond that when you've been in
that team room and when you've played. I definitely think
it's the most pressure and most nerves that that you
can feel in the game, just because of the hype,

(43:52):
the atmosphere, everything that builds up in Look, there's there's
definitely worse scenarios in golf. I mean, you can be
playing to try and keep your talk hard or whatever
it might be. There's much worse scenarios and there's pressure
in that way. But just the whole aspects of the
world watching the Ryder Cup and everybody that's there, they're like,
you know, the most pressurized times that I've felt. But
when you've done it with those with the guys that

(44:14):
have been in that team, and you make a you know,
you make very very strong bunds and friendships from that.

Speaker 1 (44:19):
You work with my dad, butch harmon. You know every
lesson I've ever got from my dad. You know, if
I'm hooking it'll he just say, we'll just stop hooking it. Well,
how do I do that? We'll just stop doing it?
Is right? I'm always I never really asked his question
to the guys that he works with, but what's he
like to work with? And how is he different to
work with? Because I have to do two things in

(44:42):
my life, right, I have to I have my father, right,
and then I have someone who is in the same
industry that I'm in, who, in my opinion, is at
the height of that industry from a golf instruction standpoint.
But I'm always interested in and I never really do it.
What's he like to work with? And how is it different?
I mean, obviously, when you go work with someone like
my dad, no matter how big of a player you are,

(45:04):
he is the goat of golf instruction, right, He's Sir
alex Ferguson, right he is, So when you go work
with him, I mean, there must be an acknowledgment that
I am going to be working today with one of
the greatest, if not the greatest in the game from
a golf instruction today.

Speaker 2 (45:22):
Well, when you walk into the museum, when you walk
into his office, the museum, and then his swing studio
with all the flags in it and the wall of majors,
I mean like you're in one of the like you know,
one of the holy grails of golf. Like it's it's
it's unbelievable, like inspiring, it's very very, very very inspired.

Speaker 1 (45:43):
It can be kind of I think some guys go
in there and go, Okay, this is a little kind
of overwhelming. But I have heard guys say they got
out of there looking at all those majors that Tiger
and all the guys and my dad worked with them.

Speaker 2 (45:56):
They were like, I want to go on the wall.

Speaker 1 (45:57):
I want to go on the wall.

Speaker 2 (45:58):
I want to be I want to be on the wall.
You know I've never I've never spent time with your dad. Well,
I've not come out of it feeling more motivated or
more inspired.

Speaker 1 (46:08):
He is a great motivator.

Speaker 2 (46:09):
He's an amazing motivator.

Speaker 1 (46:11):
He's a good cup bad cop. And he has a
reputation I think for being more bad cop than I
think the guys that spend time around him, like you
guys do, I think you would correct me. I think
you're probably surprised at how invested he is in your
game and absolutely what you guys are doing.

Speaker 2 (46:30):
He really really is and he wants the absolute best
for you.

Speaker 1 (46:35):
He wants it more than you guys.

Speaker 2 (46:37):
And he's constantly bigging you up. Like he never makes
you feel bad about yourself. It tells great start, it
tells great storry.

Speaker 1 (46:45):
What's that like? What's that like?

Speaker 2 (46:50):
And from a coaching standpoint, he's never told me something
that I couldn't.

Speaker 1 (46:56):
Do or seemed weird or you're like, where are we
going with this?

Speaker 2 (47:00):
Ever told me anything that I didn't understand or anything
that I didn't feel like I couldn't do. And at
the same time, he's never told me anything that hasn't
made a positive like impact on my golf swink And like,
you know, one of the first things he made me
do when I went for my very first lesson, you know,
I went into his office. You know, we spoke for
a bit, then we went out to hit some balls.

(47:22):
You know, after three balls. You know, he's gonna just
set up more on your heels, put more weight in
your heels. I mean, like I can do that, and like,
that's not what you think you're gonna get. It's not
I think you're gonna get something about positions. And he's like,
just get more weight in your heel, get more weight
in your heels. And again he's he's very consistent with
the messages that he sends and what what we need

(47:45):
to do. You know, good bad under pressure is messages
for what we might be working on at any given
time or what works. Is always very consistent, so you're
always doing very similar things.

Speaker 1 (47:56):
What do you feel Tommy, I'm blown away that you
haven't won a major. I think you're going to win them.
I think you're going to win a bunch of them.
But what do you feel like you have to do
to give yourself more legit chances? With nine holes to
go and it's four times a year, they are tough,

(48:17):
but you know that the great ones get themselves in position.
What do you feel if you were being critical of yourself,
what do you feel like you need to do better
to have more legit chances? Real chance? It's not back
door them, not backdoor top tens, top five, but legit
in the mix with seven eight holes to go.

Speaker 2 (48:36):
Start a bit faster. That would be one of the
first things. Just start quicker and get yourself in that
position earlier. And you know, the majors, for sure, there's
certain times where you have to write it out. I
think the PGA was probably like a bit of a

(48:56):
freak major this year in terms of the scoring.

Speaker 1 (49:00):
And we're not going to get those very often.

Speaker 2 (49:02):
That doesn't happen very often.

Speaker 1 (49:04):
So like a normal tour event, well, you felt like.

Speaker 2 (49:06):
You could make but I thought that golf course was hard.

Speaker 1 (49:09):
I know, but it was really long, but everybody kind
of felt like they could make up ground each day. Yeah, yeah, right, So,
I mean it seemed that way. The guys that I
was talking to, especially going to the weekend, They're like, Okay,
I feel like I can shoot a lower. Nobody is
going on Saturday at.

Speaker 2 (49:24):
AUGUSTA going, but definitely riding out. The most important thing,
it seems in majors is you have to ride out
that struggling period and you have to, you know, be
able to grind out of the paths and the best
majors that I've or the best results I've had in majors.
I've done that very very well, and I think that's
always something you know, like very important to look at.

(49:46):
I I love, you know, I enjoy watching the great
major champions or the ones that find themselves up there
a lot currently and in the past, just how they
go about things, how they speak about the majors, and
and you know, one of the one of the best
things they all do. Everybody knows the majors to the
ones that change your career when you look back on it.

(50:06):
But they just take those events in their strides, and
you know that better than it comfortable doing it, You
know that better than anyone. With Brooks, he likes majors.

Speaker 1 (50:16):
He likes the fact that it's going to be messy
and dirty and chaotic.

Speaker 2 (50:19):
And he's already very at ease with it before he's
He kind of likes that because actually.

Speaker 1 (50:24):
Everybody says they like it, but you know, very few
people really like it. Yeah, but there are people I'm
sure that you have played with that in the most pressure.
You can see that they're good at handling it.

Speaker 2 (50:36):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. And you know I I you know,
I've looked at the guys that were majors. You know,
I could put better in majors, and I think I
think the majors because they're the toughest tests very often.
So so like if I could pick a weakness in
my putt in especially statistically, once I get outside five

(50:56):
feet five to ten feet, you can make big gains
and they can be very important puts. Majors you have
a lot of them. It's harder to get for par
and that's like a very very important range in majors
because it's very difficult to get the ball clothes and
you're gonna have a lot of them for pass So
I think, I think I could, you know, just hold

(51:17):
some of those momentum puts and those pressure puts in
the majors to just give me some because we're talking
about giving yourself, you know, that chance going into the
bat nine where anything can happen, and that would be
where I'd like to find myself more often. Give yourself
more chances, and I'm sure you know eventually, if you
give yourself enough chances, you will walk through the door
at some point. And I you know, I still I

(51:40):
always try and talk to myself in the right way
and everybody has a different story. And for me, I'm
definitely not the guy that has come out of the
blocks at twenty one, twenty two and won a major
or one two majors or anything like that. But hopefully,
and I'll, you know, keep believing that my story will be.
It took him longer than we thought, and it took
him a long time, but look at what he ended

(52:00):
with at the end of his career. So you know,
whether that happens or not is a different story, but
that you know, that is what I will keep telling
myself at this point.

Speaker 1 (52:07):
Lastly, you counted for your steps on Oscar this year
in a challenge to her the other steps on mo
We've we've both been lucky enough to work with them
at my accounty, but it's in Dubai. But it's been
fun to watch obviously, I mean, and when did you
meet them? How old were they young? Because I have

(52:30):
a stepdaughter who I met when she was eight My
wife and I I got together, and she's I call
her my daughter. She's the only daughter I'll ever have.
I think of her. I think the role that you've
played in both of their lives has been pretty pretty
cool to watch and pretty interesting.

Speaker 2 (52:46):
It's very kind I think five and seven or six
and eight, so especially like especially Mo Moe is like
young and you know, so were they big into golf, No,
not really. They sort of tried it a little bit
obviously the mum worked in the game. So and then
I I actually remember so I took them on a

(53:08):
full sized golf course for the first time. We've got
videos somewhere quite a long time ago, so you know,
I would say they definitely came on a golf course
for the first time with me. So that's been cool
being part of being part of that journey because you
know what it's like. I mean, we obviously loved the game,
and we've grown up with the game, and we have
Frankie now who's seven, who has been playing since he

(53:29):
was you know, since since he was tiny. But like
having having your kids that are so invested in love
the game, like I love nothing more than going out
and playing with with those guys, like that's that's my
favorite thing to do.

Speaker 1 (53:45):
I was hanging out with Oscar right of the first
tea at the Ryder Cup when you guys were going out,
and it was just so.

Speaker 2 (53:51):
Cool that nervous but two of us were sitting there, you.

Speaker 1 (53:54):
Know, and there's all these people and everybody singing and stuff.
And I saw him in the crowd and I went
down and we were hanging out and stuff, and he
had just played really good in the tournament, so I
was talking about that. But we were just looking around
at the atmosphere. It must be cool to watch them progress.
I mean, they've turned into pretty good players.

Speaker 2 (54:11):
Yeah, they're doing good. They're doing I mean, what was.

Speaker 1 (54:14):
It like Candy and Form in a Challenge Tour event.
Were you giving him advice? Were you just letting him
do him? Or were you trying to go, hey man, no,
let's just just hit it over here.

Speaker 2 (54:25):
Yeah, it's not seven iron I felt like so for him,
that was such a big step up for him, Like
it was amazing that It's like Fino was cardied for
him too, and finn I was caddied for into like
who knows who was better, but we made a coating
a Challenge toy, so you know, like it was it
was a big step up for him. And obviously it's
it's somewhere where you know, he eventually wants to be

(54:48):
like playing as a professional tour and professional so Challenge
to it was amazing opportunity for him, and he was
he was very nervous. But I I think what was
what was good for him was and it's not necessarily
not everything I said was right, like definitely, like definitely
I got stuff wrong. But I think the more important

(55:08):
thing was the confidence and belief he had that what
I was saying was right helped him just hit a
good golf shot, like it just helped him commit to
what he was doing. And you know, I played on
the Challenge Tour, so I've been through all those experiences,
so I think I had a help, you know, I
could help him in that way, Like there was nothing
that he was gonna sort of go through that week
that I hadn't done. But I'm not hitting the shots

(55:30):
like it's all it's all well and good to me
saying what to do. I'm not the one hitting him.
And he teed off on Thursday morning, and I swear
he played. He had a put on the ninth for eagle.
He actually three put it in the end, he had
this twenty footer to go fourmder through nine. He could
have been eight under by the way, and I was like,
oh my god, Like I was like, he's playing unbelievable,
Like this is a joke, Like we would discuss a

(55:51):
shot and he would just hit that exact version of
the golfshop. I couldn't do it, And I was like,
this is unbelievable. But to make the cut, like because
you get you know, you get caught up in everything
in the game, and there's so much going on at
the top end, and there's like you know, there's there's
Ryder Cups, and there's like, you know, there's so much
success like in the game, and these players that are unbelievable.

(56:13):
But at the same time, like him making a birdie
on the last week he made the cup by two.
He was seventeen.

Speaker 1 (56:21):
Seventeen, he's making challenge, but like how.

Speaker 2 (56:24):
Happy he was, How happy I was? It was it
was so cool and it was so good. And to
have that like purity of the joy of the game
and what like just those moments that it can bring
at whatever level that is was great to be a
part of. And you know, Mos just won a tournament
like last week. Just watching how happy they are to
perform well, to play well, to win a tournament is

(56:46):
really cool to see and it definitely keeps you. They
help me enjoy the game, like for sure.

Speaker 1 (56:52):
Because the cool thing is their kids that are growing
up on tour, right, Yeah. We see them at majors,
we see them at driving ranges on that so they
are very much I look at the upbringing that they have.
It's very similar to the upbringing I had. I was
at tour events, you know, at a very young age,
I was on tour. You know, I've been on tour
basically my whole life. Is it fun having them come

(57:13):
out on tour with you?

Speaker 2 (57:15):
Yeah? I love having I love having them out. Like
most traveled a lot, loves being out on tour. Yeah,
I love having the guys out. I love having my
family out obviously, you know, I travel a lot and
I travel a long way to play. But having having
those guys out when they come out, and knowing that
they're learning as well, knowing that they enjoy it, knowing
that they like being out on tour, it's great And

(57:37):
I do think it's it has a positive effect on
them growing up, and I think it gives them to
go back to motivation and inspiration, you know, to be
able to for me, being able to play on tour,
bring those guys out and give them the opportunity to
be both learn and be inspired by by everyone that's
out there and the tour. You know, yeah, I'm very

(58:00):
proud of that.

Speaker 1 (58:00):
How much have they inspired you to kind of put
in your new Tommy Fleetwood Junior Academy in Dubai. I
think that's and I think it's amazing that you just
had a tournament where you got together with the AJGA,
had a tournament in Dubai. That's the first time that's
ever happened. I mean, there have been a lot of
players to me that have lived in and out of
Dubai for a long time. The fact that you're the

(58:21):
first one that's ever said, hey, listen, let's get the
AJJA involved. Let's get some wagger rankings for these players.
I mean, Dubai is a very small market, but I
think it's an important market being around you know, Mo
and Oscar and has been kind of a catalyst for
you to say, listen, junior golf is the future and
I'm going to try and do as much as I
can to make a mark.

Speaker 2 (58:42):
Yeah, definitely, And I think it's really important to give all,
you know, the kids the opportunity to learn and play
the game. I think that's really important and give them
like good information as well at the same time, like
give them the best possible chance of like in the
game and succeed in and whatever that might be. I
also just think golf in general helps you be a

(59:05):
success or whatever you want to be. So I think
it's very important lessons of course. Yeah, and you know,
you've you've had the academy and do buy a long time.
There's so there's so much good and there's a lot
you know, golf very popular over there, and there's a
lot of kids that play, and you know, the Asia
Pacific Amateur came over there a couple of years back.
The tour has been going there for a long long time,

(59:26):
and there's just been this like not necessarily a voyage,
there's has.

Speaker 1 (59:30):
Been avoid I lived in Dubai for three years from
two thousand and eight to twenty eleven, and you'd work
with these kids and they didn't really have a way
to gauge themselves off of other kids. They were good
kids in the region, they were really good kids, but
they they tended to be the best kids in every tournament.
And I think one of the cool things is the

(59:51):
competition that that these tournaments that you've you've come up with,
those are going to be the tournaments. Like the two
kids from our academy that that won the first they
were so excited. That was like to them felt like
one of the biggest tournaments for them.

Speaker 2 (01:00:10):
Like it's like it's like that guy playing in an
A G A event.

Speaker 1 (01:00:15):
We got to make sure that you get that the
A J J gives them the champions bags, right, they
got you get like you've got it. That is such
you don't realize as a junior golfer. You show up
on a driving range, as a junior golfer with an
A J G A champions bag on, everybody looks at
you different. That is him quickly equipment of like a

(01:00:38):
major championship for junior golf. So you show up with
one of those bags and everybody kind of goes, that's
what I want to do. So I think it's really
cool that that you've been able to do that, and
I think that can really really grow in the region
for the kids in that part of the world that
have never really had like a a major to play in, Right,

(01:01:01):
They've got to travel the fact that they've got one
in their their backyard, they can go and win an
AJGA event and get wagger. Yah.

Speaker 2 (01:01:08):
Yeah, obviously it puts them in a good position for
if they want to go to college. You know, they're
on the map. And I do think you know from
my experiences in Dubai, I'm sure you're the same. The
facilities are great, the coaching is very very good. There's
some great coaches out there, and there's some really good players.
But you know, and as much as we can enhance
that platform at a junior level, that can only be
a good thing.

Speaker 1 (01:01:29):
Well, I think you are one of the players told
me that if a young golfer was trying to model
their career after I mean, they couldn't pick. I look
at you. I look at guys like you and Adam Scott.
I look at the way that you guys just conduct yourselves.
I don't know anybody that doesn't like you. I don't
know anybody that doesn't think you're like.

Speaker 2 (01:01:50):
What you wouldn't tell me anyway, you know, I would.

Speaker 1 (01:01:53):
I mean, but I just think you're a credit to
the game. You're a credit to the sport. And I'm
not saying this just to massage your ego. If you
don't have multiple major championships while we're done. There's something
wrong with you, because I think you've got one of
the best swings in the game and one of the
best games in the game. So I'm excited to see
your time.

Speaker 2 (01:02:13):
Is hopefully still to come, and there'll be plenty of them.

Speaker 1 (01:02:15):
So great talking to you.

Speaker 2 (01:02:17):
Thank you, I thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:02:20):
I can't thank everybody enough for listening, rate, review, subscribe
wherever you get your podcasts. It's the Son of a
Butch podcast