February 27, 2025 • 23 mins
What does it take to build a successful media brand in 2025? Join two titans of the industry to find out. Whether you’re one of the world’s leading media companies like The New York Times, or an audio giant with a quarter of a billion monthly active listeners like iHeartMedia, the challenges remain the same: building sustainable revenue models, meeting audiences where they are and competing for attention in today’s competitive media landscape.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:11):
Good morning, Good morning, Kadda. This is my first time here.
My name is I shir Chowdhry. I'm from BBC World
Service News. I have to say I did miss the
World Cup and I'm a huge fan of football. But
I'm delighted to be kicking off this session today with
two as you've just heard, mega media giants in the
(00:35):
name of the New York Times, Joy Robbins on my right,
and Conall Burn from iHeart Radio Media. Conall, let me
just sense check that because you are actually CEO of
the digital iHeart groups.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
That's right, and that's.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
What we're here to talk about. Now you've these two
names for their reputations precede them, so you are well
aware of who I'm speaking to. I'm going to kick
off with you Joy, New York Times. When we talk
about when we talk about kicking off this sort of conversation,
(01:14):
eighteen fifty one, is that correct? That's when the New
York Times started. So we're talking about one hundred and
seventeventy four years in action, and there's been substantial change
during that time. The change hasn't happened by standing still,
not least in fact, our pre tour at the BBC's
ex whilst Mark Thompson actually moved on to The New
(01:35):
York Times and arguably transferred it into a print to
digital world. Now, I love the term that you've used.
When you've talked about transformation, you've used the word reinvention.
Talk to us about that. What does that look like
for The New York Times? Sure, of course.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
Well, first of all, thank you so much for having
me today. When I think about the one choice that
The New New York Times has made that's really led
to its global success over time, it's been our unwavering
commitment to quality journalism. We are relentlessly focused on building
(02:13):
news products and lifestyle products that are so good that
people actively seek them out by name and build enduring
habits with them. And that focus has really led us
to launch in twenty twenty two our Essential Subscription strategy,
which is so core to the next phase of reinvention
of The New York Times. And that strategy means that
(02:36):
we are going to be the essential subscription for every
curious person seeking to understand and engage with the world.
And there are three components to that strategy. The first
is to be the world's best news destination. The second
is to build products that help people make the most
(02:58):
of their lives and engage with their passions. And lastly,
to create a comprehensive and connected product experience that's really
allowing to people to discover the best of the New
York Times coverage, and that has led us that unwavering
that focus has really led us to become the most
subscribed to journalistic platform in the world, with nearly eleven
(03:21):
and a half million subscribers, tens of millions of people
who are coming into our coverage every day across a
range of different topics, whether that's be news, games, which
I know we'll talk about sports, shopping and cooking. It
has required us to really rethink what The New York
Times means to an expansive group of people.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
But because that's the key thing. You are asking people
to pay in an age where there's a wealth of
content out there. There's a wealth of all sorts of
content out there, whether it's news, whether it's games. As
we've said, but a free to access how do you
make pivot where you are asking audiences, well, here's the thing,
(04:04):
we are offering something different, and you will want to pay.
So there's a clear call to action there.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
I mean, I think it comes down to creating that
direct relationship and becoming essential in people's lives, and so
building products and journalism that are so good that people
are actually willing to pay for the app for them
to get access.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
And it's that reputation that you're talking about. Trust, trust,
that's right at the essence of it. Conall, we're going
to sort of fast you. You guys are huge. I mean,
we've been working together for some years now, and we met,
Conall and I met at a time where the podcasting
(04:45):
industry was growing massively in the US and various key
big outfits iHeart in particular were looking to buy their
own production house, and you were CEO of Stuff Media
at the time. Now, I've watched how iHeart have really
evolved during that time from when you started, in fact
(05:05):
just a little bit before, from the radio broadcasting medium
into and transformed into this digital space. Tell us a
bit more about that.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Well, I think you have in iHeartMedia a mass reach
medium in the United States. So the maybe most understated
form of media in the United States and maybe the
world is audio. iHeartRadio reaches ninety percent of American adults,
a month. We do this across almost one thousand broadcast
(05:35):
radio stations in almost all fifty states of the United States.
It allowed us to build new businesses on top of
that business, one of which was podcasting. So about five
years ago, iHeartMedia acquired a company called Stuff Media, and
at the same time, podcasting was becoming the newest mass
(05:55):
reach medium in the United States. Have about one out
of two Americans a month now listening to podcasts. You
have a mass reach media. Turning that into a business
meant bringing in iHeartMedia is not just marketing power to
grow it faster than it might grow on its own,
but to put it in the briefcases of a thousand
(06:17):
salespeople across the United States. What we're trying to do
here is, I think, in a very smart partnership with
Shike Josum and the gCO, is to bring that medium
podcasting that I have seen firsthand change the way creators
think about telling stories and change the way listeners think
(06:38):
about content. Try to bring that to this region in
a way and help accelerate it leapfrog five ten years
of growth that we just went across in the United States.
So it's really exciting.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
It is I mean, I love podcasting. Tell us a
little bit more about the medium of podcasting. It's very different,
isn't it, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
What's amazing about podcasting and audio in general is the
listener puts the creator in a different bucket. So usually
when you consume content, you have a relationship with the
creator that is a little bit at arm's length. You
believe you're consuming media that is created for one to many.
(07:17):
Not to say it's good or bad, it's just how
your brain is working around that content is it wasn't
made especially for you. You don't have a deep, deep
relationship with that creator. Audio and especially podcasting, is built
a little differently. You consume the content in a way
where you trust and engage with the creators a little more.
(07:38):
You literally psychologically put them in the bucket of a
companion rather than a creator. This changes everything about this media.
It makes it have engagement that other mediums don't have.
And by the way, it creates a marketing vehicle that's
super powerful for marketers to carry messages through to consumers.
(07:59):
So we've not just seen it change the way creators
tell stories, but we've seen it's sort of changed the
minds of marketers of how to tell their stories too
and drive greater effectiveness.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
I'm really thinking about that audience in terms of what
that person individual is doing at the time. Is key,
isn't it. We've talked about podcasting is huge in the home.
You know, when you are potentially alone, It's a very
immersive experience, can be a very solo experience.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Yes, it's fascinating because most people think of podcasting as
the mobile medium and broadcast radio as the non mobile medium.
But it's actually the flip. Two thirds of broadcast radio
listening happens outside of the home, two thirds of podcasts
listening happening inside a home. So there really complementary mediums. Again,
when you think about it as a creator, I want
to cover as much of a person's day part or
(08:50):
daytime as I can. When you think about it as
a marketer, really complementary tools to reach consumers.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
And you've got one of the biggest ones of Cool's
joy the.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
Daily really Yes, the most downloaded podcast, the most listen
to podcasts in twenty twenty four on Apple.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
Now let's lean into one of the big things that
really has made you guys successful, and that is making money.
You make money.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
Now.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
You've described New York Times as subscription fast, digtional first,
subscription first, but you lead, of course advertising in that space.
That's no main feat, particularly in this current time where
quite often it's out of your control. How is that doing?
What are the key where are you now and what
are the key challenges?
Speaker 3 (09:37):
I think that's a great question about how a subscriptions
first business leads to somebody like the leading advertising and
what the relationship is between those two things. And I
think the subscription first orientation of our business leads to
an incredibly strong opportunity for advertisers. And that's because everything
(10:01):
that we do is focused on our audience. We want
to make sure that we are creating engaged loyalty for
people to either continue subscribing or to become subscribers. So
it makes us make choices that really puts the reader
the listener first, and that helps advertisers because it first
(10:22):
of all, gives them access to first party data. We
have an incredible amount of first party data across one
hundred and fifty million registered users. It allows us to
really think about what the advertising experience across our platforms
looks like to be user first. So For us, it's
meant creating beautiful, large premium canvases that feel part of
(10:45):
the reader experiences, that perform consistently better than what we
see standard advertising units do. And then ultimately, the trust
that is required from the reader's side to invest in
a product not only with their time but actually with
their money creates the circumstances where brands can actually then
(11:05):
really benefit from that trust transfer, and we see that
consistently in the way that our advertising campaigns perform, whether
that is to drive brand visibility, favorability consideration, or even outcomes.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
One of the key things I recall from listening to
Joy's podcast. If you've not heard it, it's fantastic, And
one of the things that stood out for me is
you were talking about the world of content where you
are going into you know it might be relatively new,
let's say word l and you didn't surround it with
advertising at the beginning. Yes, it wasn't something you had
(11:40):
to buy. It was there. You grew that audience, you
grew the reach. I'm going to come to you, Connel,
because I know that's something you guys have done as well,
and in this space you've then inserted advertising. How have
the audience responded in that space.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
That's right, That's right. I mean, I think first and
foremost again, it's all about creating products and content in
journalism that people are seeking out by name and building
habits with the advertising. Monetization really comes once we really
understand what it is that these readers or these listeners,
these viewers are going to respond to.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
So it allows us to.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
Not be quick to assume what they want, but actually
to understand how they're behaving with the products and then
launch something that's complementary from an advertising perspective and that
performs ultimately for market.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Because it's a fine line, isn't it. Where you know
in terms of monetizing and how much to monetize connel
In terms of the audio space, advertising can be quite challenging,
particularly with digital advertising now, it also extends into a
huge wealth of opportunity, and I'd love to lean into
that to understand a little bit more. First of all,
(12:48):
when you are adding advertising to consent to use to listeners,
particularly in the US, who are often used to that world,
let's open that up a little bit in terms of
audio is in other parts of the world. Sure, how
do you know what is the right level of advertising
for your audiences.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Well, the first thing is we're a pretty consistent company.
We're we're an advertising enabled company and almost everything we do.
We have small subscription services, but they're nominal. They're for
creator there for consumers who want that, but it's not
our focus. The second thing is I totally agree with Joy.
Our goal is to meet listeners where they are, and
(13:31):
that takes you into some really interesting places. We distribute
podcasts wherever consumers want to consume podcasts. Podcasts sort of
technically work in a manner where the publisher retains control
of those shows regardless of where they're consumed, and it's
a minor but really important technical difference of the media
(13:52):
than other mediums. So it allows us to meet listeners
wherever they want to pick up our content. Other apps
are app Apple, podcast tests, etc. It also has meant
that we've launched platforms like Iheartland and the Metaverse on
roadblocks or Fortnite, a theater where you can watch shows
from artists. By the way, that's been as interesting from
(14:15):
the marketing side of things, having marketers understand how does
my brand show up, what do I sponsor in such
a place, as it has been from the creator side,
Creators sort of wrapping their heads around what does a
show there look like, what does it sound like? What
do I do? All the way through to live radio
now being digitally distributed across fifty sixty million American homes
(14:36):
through smart speakers that appeared on the scene twenty years
ago fifteen twenty years ago, a whole new mechanism our
and one of our fastest growing ways that people discover
our content now. So the first answer to your question
is understanding each of those delivery mechanisms and distribution mechanisms,
and understanding the kinds of audiences that they are reaching.
(14:59):
Meeting audio is where they are determines and large part
what kind of advertising you ship with that content. In
those places, you are often partnering with distribution platforms to
distribute those ads in the right way, but you also
have a lot of central control because a lot of
audio is distributed through feeds that flow back to the publisher.
(15:20):
The bottom line, I issues that we're really cognizant of
this and watch it closely. We're living in an age
where a lot of these mediums are new. Podcasting is
relatively new, and so the size of a podcast. Ad
load is still something to watch very closely. Thankfully you can.
All of this stuff is very trackable in terms of, well,
(15:41):
did that episode do well? Or did this episode do well?
Did the content or the ad load? Drive that did?
The moment I distributed in the day, drive it did,
the cadence of publishing drive it. All of this were
still sort of learning as we build the medium into
something more mature, But it's been exciting.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
I think that experimentation to one hundred new products as
we start to better understand these consumers, as we really understand,
like what drives the audience, what drives people to have
propensity to subscribe or to spend time with something. That
experimentation is something that we're learning so much from it.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
And it's okay to, yeah, try something that gets something
different than twelve months or six months. If you're not
doing that, especially in digital media, you're not doing it right.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
And the fact that you are thinking so critically about
those audiences, where are they, what do they want, what
are they enjoying? What do they not know that they
don't know yet? Now in the interactive says, you briefly
mentioned I Heeartland, I don't know if anybody knows I Heartland,
Connor mentioned it. I took a lot, took a lot.
Would you like to talk to us a little bit
(16:42):
about that? Because it blew me away.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
It was a really interesting moment for our company when again,
if our mandate is to create companionship through content and
meet listeners where they are, then, like we've talked about,
you have to be open to platforms where a lot
of listeners are that might not be originally obvious to you.
So when roboox a few years ago was two hundred
million users a month, now almost four hundred million, that's
(17:06):
a place where we should show up and so building
a metaverse experience there that we called I Heartland, which
was a sort of an amphitheater where we brought creators
in to perform. Again, it was really interesting from the
marketer side, how do I show up here? But equally
from the creator's side. Our opening concert was with Charlie Pooth.
This is an incredible musician but also a bit of
(17:28):
a musicologist of sort of figuring out wait. So this
is a totally different environment where I can sort of
control the fan base a little bit because it's all
digitized and gamified let me think about how I would
perform in such an environment, which just a fascinating moment
for us.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
It's really broadened the audience space you got. So we
were just talking about podcasting there, but we sort of
leaned into events really and it's a virtual way of
doing that. So that's additional monetization. Joy I know that's
an area that New York Times have also leaned into.
So you're looking at audience is in a variety of
different ways, not just consuming needs.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
No, of course, I mean I think that first of all,
I think news gets painted a bit monolithically. News is
lifestyle coverage. It's sport, it's fashion, it's culture, it's food,
it's travel. And I think what we're really trying to
then understand is what makes a great event, And for
us right now, it's really thinking about news making opportunities.
(18:26):
We've really leveraged two major tent polls of our Journalism
deal Book, which happens every fall in New York, where
Andrew Russorkin bring some of the world's most influential people
across business, policy and culture into one room to really
sort of explore a lot of the themes that are
driving our world today and Climate, which is led by
(18:47):
David Gellis that really looks at sustainability and sort of
the forces and solutions impacting our world. We've identified one
new area this year to really hone in on because
of the interests we're seeing on behalf of our readers,
and that's wellness. So this May and New York we
will be launching our first Wellness Summit. And what we're
(19:11):
really thinking about is, then, how do we start to
think about bringing all of our brands to the world,
whether that be The Athletic or to think about things
like hard fork and technology and AI. So events sort
of serve as a real opportunity for us to take
our readership and really find ways to that's.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
In the US, I would imagine with your global sort
of expansion, Yes, how does that lend itself out? What
are the opportunities globally? You all grow globally.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
Both are and we are, so about a third of
our audience at the New York Times comes from outside
the US. We have more than two million subscribers coming
from outside the US right now. And with brands like
the Athletic, we are covering global sports. We have a
massive operation in the UK, covering all any Premier League teams.
(20:01):
We're covering F one, we're covering tennis and golf. We've
actually just launched New York Times cooking the Ability because
we saw such demand for it to have a metric system.
So we're really thinking about how to take all of
our products and putting them into more lives of global
our global readership.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
And I'll just bounce off something Joyce said is you're
always as a as a mass reach publisher and as
a creator that has the tools to do something big faster. Yeah,
you're looking for new spaces to explore wellness. Is so
awesome that you guys were doing that. We saw a
similar thing in audio a couple of years ago. There's
(20:43):
a creator named Jay Shetty. He'll be here at Web
Summit speaking and we've partnered with Global Communications Office so
that he could come here and teach a little about
what he does. But it's a similar goal where he
saw in podcasting the ability to tell the story of
mental health and wellness in the United States a little
bit differently and to try to break down walls a
(21:04):
little bit, a little bit easier, a little bit better.
I think it speaks to him. Yes, it's an incredibly bold,
awesome move. It speaks to the medium as well, like
its ability to create that relationship with a listener where
you feel you let your guard down and you'll let
the content in a little easier. It's a really powerful thing.
But that's the joy of doing this work, as you
(21:26):
get to be able to explore those nooks and crannies
as a major publisher that you might not as a startup.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Now with a minute and a half to go, AI,
of course isn't tomorrow. It's very much so here we're
living and breathing it. It is the game changer. What
does that look like for Ihouse In New York Times,
he would like to go fast.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
I think we did more than an a half time
talking about it. I mean, I'll think really quickly. We
see tremendous promise in what AI is going to enable.
From the reporting side, we are steadfast in making human
made journalism, but we do see leveraging generative AI allowing
us to make our products more accessible to more audiences
(22:08):
through things like translation. On the business side. On the
advertising side, we're actually launching ad products that are fueled
by generative AI that help brands really be able to
target different audiences and different content based on the essence
of their media briefs.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
So we see lots.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
I'm sure it is changing post production and distribution very specifically,
very fast. So it is changing how you think about
creating audio content, especially podcasting, in terms of post production
and distribution. It is disrupting that as we speak in
terms of globalizing the podcast medium, I truly think we're
(22:48):
at a moment, maybe in another three months, where it
becomes routine that when you make a podcast you are
shipping it around the world for every audience to consume
it in language. And note even prior to that, we
have a lot of great English content. It's being consumed
around the world. I can. I'm really optimistic as to
(23:09):
how what kind of an inflection point we hit when
that content is in language. It'd be really cool.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
Thank you, Conel, thank you Joey. It's been fantastic speaking
to you both. Absolute pleasure.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Thank you, thank you, thank
Good morning, Good morning, Kadda. This is my first time here.
My name is I shir Chowdhry. I'm from BBC World
Service News. I have to say I did miss the
World Cup and I'm a huge fan of football. But
I'm delighted to be kicking off this session today with
two as you've just heard, mega media giants in the
(00:35):
name of the New York Times, Joy Robbins on my right,
and Conall Burn from iHeart Radio Media. Conall, let me
just sense check that because you are actually CEO of
the digital iHeart groups.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
That's right, and that's.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
What we're here to talk about. Now you've these two
names for their reputations precede them, so you are well
aware of who I'm speaking to. I'm going to kick
off with you Joy, New York Times. When we talk
about when we talk about kicking off this sort of conversation,
(01:14):
eighteen fifty one, is that correct? That's when the New
York Times started. So we're talking about one hundred and
seventeventy four years in action, and there's been substantial change
during that time. The change hasn't happened by standing still,
not least in fact, our pre tour at the BBC's
ex whilst Mark Thompson actually moved on to The New
(01:35):
York Times and arguably transferred it into a print to
digital world. Now, I love the term that you've used.
When you've talked about transformation, you've used the word reinvention.
Talk to us about that. What does that look like
for The New York Times? Sure, of course.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
Well, first of all, thank you so much for having
me today. When I think about the one choice that
The New New York Times has made that's really led
to its global success over time, it's been our unwavering
commitment to quality journalism. We are relentlessly focused on building
(02:13):
news products and lifestyle products that are so good that
people actively seek them out by name and build enduring
habits with them. And that focus has really led us
to launch in twenty twenty two our Essential Subscription strategy,
which is so core to the next phase of reinvention
of The New York Times. And that strategy means that
(02:36):
we are going to be the essential subscription for every
curious person seeking to understand and engage with the world.
And there are three components to that strategy. The first
is to be the world's best news destination. The second
is to build products that help people make the most
(02:58):
of their lives and engage with their passions. And lastly,
to create a comprehensive and connected product experience that's really
allowing to people to discover the best of the New
York Times coverage, and that has led us that unwavering
that focus has really led us to become the most
subscribed to journalistic platform in the world, with nearly eleven
(03:21):
and a half million subscribers, tens of millions of people
who are coming into our coverage every day across a
range of different topics, whether that's be news, games, which
I know we'll talk about sports, shopping and cooking. It
has required us to really rethink what The New York
Times means to an expansive group of people.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
But because that's the key thing. You are asking people
to pay in an age where there's a wealth of
content out there. There's a wealth of all sorts of
content out there, whether it's news, whether it's games. As
we've said, but a free to access how do you
make pivot where you are asking audiences, well, here's the thing,
(04:04):
we are offering something different, and you will want to pay.
So there's a clear call to action there.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
I mean, I think it comes down to creating that
direct relationship and becoming essential in people's lives, and so
building products and journalism that are so good that people
are actually willing to pay for the app for them
to get access.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
And it's that reputation that you're talking about. Trust, trust,
that's right at the essence of it. Conall, we're going
to sort of fast you. You guys are huge. I mean,
we've been working together for some years now, and we met,
Conall and I met at a time where the podcasting
(04:45):
industry was growing massively in the US and various key
big outfits iHeart in particular were looking to buy their
own production house, and you were CEO of Stuff Media
at the time. Now, I've watched how iHeart have really
evolved during that time from when you started, in fact
(05:05):
just a little bit before, from the radio broadcasting medium
into and transformed into this digital space. Tell us a
bit more about that.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Well, I think you have in iHeartMedia a mass reach
medium in the United States. So the maybe most understated
form of media in the United States and maybe the
world is audio. iHeartRadio reaches ninety percent of American adults,
a month. We do this across almost one thousand broadcast
(05:35):
radio stations in almost all fifty states of the United States.
It allowed us to build new businesses on top of
that business, one of which was podcasting. So about five
years ago, iHeartMedia acquired a company called Stuff Media, and
at the same time, podcasting was becoming the newest mass
(05:55):
reach medium in the United States. Have about one out
of two Americans a month now listening to podcasts. You
have a mass reach media. Turning that into a business
meant bringing in iHeartMedia is not just marketing power to
grow it faster than it might grow on its own,
but to put it in the briefcases of a thousand
(06:17):
salespeople across the United States. What we're trying to do
here is, I think, in a very smart partnership with
Shike Josum and the gCO, is to bring that medium
podcasting that I have seen firsthand change the way creators
think about telling stories and change the way listeners think
(06:38):
about content. Try to bring that to this region in
a way and help accelerate it leapfrog five ten years
of growth that we just went across in the United States.
So it's really exciting.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
It is I mean, I love podcasting. Tell us a
little bit more about the medium of podcasting. It's very different,
isn't it, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
What's amazing about podcasting and audio in general is the
listener puts the creator in a different bucket. So usually
when you consume content, you have a relationship with the
creator that is a little bit at arm's length. You
believe you're consuming media that is created for one to many.
(07:17):
Not to say it's good or bad, it's just how
your brain is working around that content is it wasn't
made especially for you. You don't have a deep, deep
relationship with that creator. Audio and especially podcasting, is built
a little differently. You consume the content in a way
where you trust and engage with the creators a little more.
(07:38):
You literally psychologically put them in the bucket of a
companion rather than a creator. This changes everything about this media.
It makes it have engagement that other mediums don't have.
And by the way, it creates a marketing vehicle that's
super powerful for marketers to carry messages through to consumers.
(07:59):
So we've not just seen it change the way creators
tell stories, but we've seen it's sort of changed the
minds of marketers of how to tell their stories too
and drive greater effectiveness.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
I'm really thinking about that audience in terms of what
that person individual is doing at the time. Is key,
isn't it. We've talked about podcasting is huge in the home.
You know, when you are potentially alone, It's a very
immersive experience, can be a very solo experience.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Yes, it's fascinating because most people think of podcasting as
the mobile medium and broadcast radio as the non mobile medium.
But it's actually the flip. Two thirds of broadcast radio
listening happens outside of the home, two thirds of podcasts
listening happening inside a home. So there really complementary mediums. Again,
when you think about it as a creator, I want
to cover as much of a person's day part or
(08:50):
daytime as I can. When you think about it as
a marketer, really complementary tools to reach consumers.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
And you've got one of the biggest ones of Cool's
joy the.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
Daily really Yes, the most downloaded podcast, the most listen
to podcasts in twenty twenty four on Apple.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
Now let's lean into one of the big things that
really has made you guys successful, and that is making money.
You make money.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
Now.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
You've described New York Times as subscription fast, digtional first,
subscription first, but you lead, of course advertising in that space.
That's no main feat, particularly in this current time where
quite often it's out of your control. How is that doing?
What are the key where are you now and what
are the key challenges?
Speaker 3 (09:37):
I think that's a great question about how a subscriptions
first business leads to somebody like the leading advertising and
what the relationship is between those two things. And I
think the subscription first orientation of our business leads to
an incredibly strong opportunity for advertisers. And that's because everything
(10:01):
that we do is focused on our audience. We want
to make sure that we are creating engaged loyalty for
people to either continue subscribing or to become subscribers. So
it makes us make choices that really puts the reader
the listener first, and that helps advertisers because it first
(10:22):
of all, gives them access to first party data. We
have an incredible amount of first party data across one
hundred and fifty million registered users. It allows us to
really think about what the advertising experience across our platforms
looks like to be user first. So For us, it's
meant creating beautiful, large premium canvases that feel part of
(10:45):
the reader experiences, that perform consistently better than what we
see standard advertising units do. And then ultimately, the trust
that is required from the reader's side to invest in
a product not only with their time but actually with
their money creates the circumstances where brands can actually then
(11:05):
really benefit from that trust transfer, and we see that
consistently in the way that our advertising campaigns perform, whether
that is to drive brand visibility, favorability consideration, or even outcomes.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
One of the key things I recall from listening to
Joy's podcast. If you've not heard it, it's fantastic, And
one of the things that stood out for me is
you were talking about the world of content where you
are going into you know it might be relatively new,
let's say word l and you didn't surround it with
advertising at the beginning. Yes, it wasn't something you had
(11:40):
to buy. It was there. You grew that audience, you
grew the reach. I'm going to come to you, Connel,
because I know that's something you guys have done as well,
and in this space you've then inserted advertising. How have
the audience responded in that space.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
That's right, That's right. I mean, I think first and
foremost again, it's all about creating products and content in
journalism that people are seeking out by name and building
habits with the advertising. Monetization really comes once we really
understand what it is that these readers or these listeners,
these viewers are going to respond to.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
So it allows us to.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
Not be quick to assume what they want, but actually
to understand how they're behaving with the products and then
launch something that's complementary from an advertising perspective and that
performs ultimately for market.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Because it's a fine line, isn't it. Where you know
in terms of monetizing and how much to monetize connel
In terms of the audio space, advertising can be quite challenging,
particularly with digital advertising now, it also extends into a
huge wealth of opportunity, and I'd love to lean into
that to understand a little bit more. First of all,
(12:48):
when you are adding advertising to consent to use to listeners,
particularly in the US, who are often used to that world,
let's open that up a little bit in terms of
audio is in other parts of the world. Sure, how
do you know what is the right level of advertising
for your audiences.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Well, the first thing is we're a pretty consistent company.
We're we're an advertising enabled company and almost everything we do.
We have small subscription services, but they're nominal. They're for
creator there for consumers who want that, but it's not
our focus. The second thing is I totally agree with Joy.
Our goal is to meet listeners where they are, and
(13:31):
that takes you into some really interesting places. We distribute
podcasts wherever consumers want to consume podcasts. Podcasts sort of
technically work in a manner where the publisher retains control
of those shows regardless of where they're consumed, and it's
a minor but really important technical difference of the media
(13:52):
than other mediums. So it allows us to meet listeners
wherever they want to pick up our content. Other apps
are app Apple, podcast tests, etc. It also has meant
that we've launched platforms like Iheartland and the Metaverse on
roadblocks or Fortnite, a theater where you can watch shows
from artists. By the way, that's been as interesting from
(14:15):
the marketing side of things, having marketers understand how does
my brand show up, what do I sponsor in such
a place, as it has been from the creator side,
Creators sort of wrapping their heads around what does a
show there look like, what does it sound like? What
do I do? All the way through to live radio
now being digitally distributed across fifty sixty million American homes
(14:36):
through smart speakers that appeared on the scene twenty years
ago fifteen twenty years ago, a whole new mechanism our
and one of our fastest growing ways that people discover
our content now. So the first answer to your question
is understanding each of those delivery mechanisms and distribution mechanisms,
and understanding the kinds of audiences that they are reaching.
(14:59):
Meeting audio is where they are determines and large part
what kind of advertising you ship with that content. In
those places, you are often partnering with distribution platforms to
distribute those ads in the right way, but you also
have a lot of central control because a lot of
audio is distributed through feeds that flow back to the publisher.
(15:20):
The bottom line, I issues that we're really cognizant of
this and watch it closely. We're living in an age
where a lot of these mediums are new. Podcasting is
relatively new, and so the size of a podcast. Ad
load is still something to watch very closely. Thankfully you can.
All of this stuff is very trackable in terms of, well,
(15:41):
did that episode do well? Or did this episode do well?
Did the content or the ad load? Drive that did?
The moment I distributed in the day, drive it did,
the cadence of publishing drive it. All of this were
still sort of learning as we build the medium into
something more mature, But it's been exciting.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
I think that experimentation to one hundred new products as
we start to better understand these consumers, as we really understand,
like what drives the audience, what drives people to have
propensity to subscribe or to spend time with something. That
experimentation is something that we're learning so much from it.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
And it's okay to, yeah, try something that gets something
different than twelve months or six months. If you're not
doing that, especially in digital media, you're not doing it right.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
And the fact that you are thinking so critically about
those audiences, where are they, what do they want, what
are they enjoying? What do they not know that they
don't know yet? Now in the interactive says, you briefly
mentioned I Heeartland, I don't know if anybody knows I Heartland,
Connor mentioned it. I took a lot, took a lot.
Would you like to talk to us a little bit
(16:42):
about that? Because it blew me away.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
It was a really interesting moment for our company when again,
if our mandate is to create companionship through content and
meet listeners where they are, then, like we've talked about,
you have to be open to platforms where a lot
of listeners are that might not be originally obvious to you.
So when roboox a few years ago was two hundred
million users a month, now almost four hundred million, that's
(17:06):
a place where we should show up and so building
a metaverse experience there that we called I Heartland, which
was a sort of an amphitheater where we brought creators
in to perform. Again, it was really interesting from the
marketer side, how do I show up here? But equally
from the creator's side. Our opening concert was with Charlie Pooth.
This is an incredible musician but also a bit of
(17:28):
a musicologist of sort of figuring out wait. So this
is a totally different environment where I can sort of
control the fan base a little bit because it's all
digitized and gamified let me think about how I would
perform in such an environment, which just a fascinating moment
for us.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
It's really broadened the audience space you got. So we
were just talking about podcasting there, but we sort of
leaned into events really and it's a virtual way of
doing that. So that's additional monetization. Joy I know that's
an area that New York Times have also leaned into.
So you're looking at audience is in a variety of
different ways, not just consuming needs.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
No, of course, I mean I think that first of all,
I think news gets painted a bit monolithically. News is
lifestyle coverage. It's sport, it's fashion, it's culture, it's food,
it's travel. And I think what we're really trying to
then understand is what makes a great event, And for
us right now, it's really thinking about news making opportunities.
(18:26):
We've really leveraged two major tent polls of our Journalism
deal Book, which happens every fall in New York, where
Andrew Russorkin bring some of the world's most influential people
across business, policy and culture into one room to really
sort of explore a lot of the themes that are
driving our world today and Climate, which is led by
(18:47):
David Gellis that really looks at sustainability and sort of
the forces and solutions impacting our world. We've identified one
new area this year to really hone in on because
of the interests we're seeing on behalf of our readers,
and that's wellness. So this May and New York we
will be launching our first Wellness Summit. And what we're
(19:11):
really thinking about is, then, how do we start to
think about bringing all of our brands to the world,
whether that be The Athletic or to think about things
like hard fork and technology and AI. So events sort
of serve as a real opportunity for us to take
our readership and really find ways to that's.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
In the US, I would imagine with your global sort
of expansion, Yes, how does that lend itself out? What
are the opportunities globally? You all grow globally.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
Both are and we are, so about a third of
our audience at the New York Times comes from outside
the US. We have more than two million subscribers coming
from outside the US right now. And with brands like
the Athletic, we are covering global sports. We have a
massive operation in the UK, covering all any Premier League teams.
(20:01):
We're covering F one, we're covering tennis and golf. We've
actually just launched New York Times cooking the Ability because
we saw such demand for it to have a metric system.
So we're really thinking about how to take all of
our products and putting them into more lives of global
our global readership.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
And I'll just bounce off something Joyce said is you're
always as a as a mass reach publisher and as
a creator that has the tools to do something big faster. Yeah,
you're looking for new spaces to explore wellness. Is so
awesome that you guys were doing that. We saw a
similar thing in audio a couple of years ago. There's
(20:43):
a creator named Jay Shetty. He'll be here at Web
Summit speaking and we've partnered with Global Communications Office so
that he could come here and teach a little about
what he does. But it's a similar goal where he
saw in podcasting the ability to tell the story of
mental health and wellness in the United States a little
bit differently and to try to break down walls a
(21:04):
little bit, a little bit easier, a little bit better.
I think it speaks to him. Yes, it's an incredibly bold,
awesome move. It speaks to the medium as well, like
its ability to create that relationship with a listener where
you feel you let your guard down and you'll let
the content in a little easier. It's a really powerful thing.
But that's the joy of doing this work, as you
(21:26):
get to be able to explore those nooks and crannies
as a major publisher that you might not as a startup.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Now with a minute and a half to go, AI,
of course isn't tomorrow. It's very much so here we're
living and breathing it. It is the game changer. What
does that look like for Ihouse In New York Times,
he would like to go fast.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
I think we did more than an a half time
talking about it. I mean, I'll think really quickly. We
see tremendous promise in what AI is going to enable.
From the reporting side, we are steadfast in making human
made journalism, but we do see leveraging generative AI allowing
us to make our products more accessible to more audiences
(22:08):
through things like translation. On the business side. On the
advertising side, we're actually launching ad products that are fueled
by generative AI that help brands really be able to
target different audiences and different content based on the essence
of their media briefs.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
So we see lots.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
I'm sure it is changing post production and distribution very specifically,
very fast. So it is changing how you think about
creating audio content, especially podcasting, in terms of post production
and distribution. It is disrupting that as we speak in
terms of globalizing the podcast medium, I truly think we're
(22:48):
at a moment, maybe in another three months, where it
becomes routine that when you make a podcast you are
shipping it around the world for every audience to consume
it in language. And note even prior to that, we
have a lot of great English content. It's being consumed
around the world. I can. I'm really optimistic as to
(23:09):
how what kind of an inflection point we hit when
that content is in language. It'd be really cool.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
Thank you, Conel, thank you Joey. It's been fantastic speaking
to you both. Absolute pleasure.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Thank you, thank you, thank
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