December 15, 2025 • 31 mins
Buck Showalter, himself something of an unconventional managerial hire, chats with F.P. Santangelo about San Francisco's choice of a college coach, Tony Vitello, to manage the Giants. What challenges will there be? How long might the transition take? Plus: a look at competing in the NL West - and how the Dodgers' spending might impact a potential work stoppage.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
It's another episode of Splash Shit and we are super
lucky today to have Baseball Royalty on the show. William
Nathaniel Buck Showalter the third. He served as manager of
the Yankees, the Diamondbacks, the Rangers, the Orioles, the Mets,
four time Manager of the Year, former professional minor leaguer,
and an analyst for ESPN, YES Network, MLB Network and
(00:28):
my buddy, a guy I've got to know over the years,
Buck show Walter joins the show.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Buck.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Thanks for coming on, man, What have you been up to?
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Oh, I'm so busy. Hey, I got to ask you.
So you got my whole name? What does FP stand for?
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Frank Paul Santangelo? Frank Paul's the first name with the hyphen,
so my parents just kind of shortened it up FP
and it just stuck for over the years. And now
that's what I go by.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
I should know that. You know.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
I had a pitching coach in mynor leagues, great qv Low,
and I said, what's the QV stand for?
Speaker 3 (00:56):
He goes nothing. That was my name.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Qv is brother was like JB. They all had initials
for name. It was unde label look him up. He
was the head coach at all over Montgomery. He's a
legend down there. QB low, but FP stands for something.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
I like that.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Yeah, well that that's up for debates. Thanks for coming
on today. I was reading about you like we've had
many talks when you were manager of the Orioles, sitting
in your office, and that's how I got to know
you so well. But I did not know that in
the Cape Cod League. I won't say the year that
you won a batting title hitting four thirty four. I
think it was four Where I'm looking at Hyennas. You
played in Hyennas and then at Mississippi State you hit
(01:34):
like two ninety something and we're a fifth round draft pick,
so made it all the way to triple A? Is
that true? Is the Internet right on all these things? No?
Speaker 2 (01:43):
As usual, my kids have told me I need to
really check the Wikipedia playoff, but I guess you can
change that.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
I got better ways to spend my time. But no,
I think I hit two ninety as a career minor.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Lead, but I I think four point fifty nine at
State and you know, I gotta, I gotta. I got
a what do you call it? Telegram from Thurman Monthson.
It was the first year Hyanna's had a team in
a Cape League and he congratulated me on breaking his record,
and that was a keeper.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
I still got it in my closet. That's that's that
was cool getting that from.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Thurman, especially since you would go on and manage the
Yankees one day. That that's really really cool. So you know,
this is a Giants podcast, we talk all Giants baseball.
Uh I want to pick your brain and I've picked
your brain a lot over the years about managers and
and Tony Vaitello being the manager. Have you been following
this story and it's not the traditional path to becoming
(02:39):
a big league manager, And I think you know when
you manage the Yankees, you didn't have any big league experience,
So so maybe talk about what you think his challenges
are going to be as a first time big league
manager coming from college.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
You know, uh FP, I don't.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
I never want to be the old gallan or front
porch freeman of the kids. And we all confuse change
with a life respect for tradition. And I know when
I first started out, I was thirty five, thirty six,
and the first thing I did was surround myself with
Frank Howard Cleek Warrior, Willie Randolph, you know guys that
and I had great I had a great sponsor in
the clubhouse and Don Mattingly who had played with So
(03:18):
you know my path because guys are gonna you know,
the newness will wear off and there's no if you're
a phony, you get sniffed out in a heartbeat in
the locker room. You're around each other, as you well know,
seven days a week, seven or eight months, and sincerity plays.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
And and I know Tony a little bit, not as
well as.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
I'd like to, but uh, I'm pulling for him, and
I think he's got a good chance. I applauded Buster
for taking an unconventional route. You know, that's how things.
I just think sometimes we make way too much. I'm
big about your path.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
I am.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
When I look at a resume, I can reach some
of them for a couple of sentences, I go, oh,
that path, and you know there's been some examples of it.
But I think Tony's going.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
To do well. I do it because I think you's
got to know what you're good at, what you're not.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Like every time there's a catching instructor around, I wanted
to stick my head in there.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
Because I knew I wasn't good at it.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
And you've got to have a certain amount of humbleness
and know what you're good at what you're not. I
think he does. I mean recruiting fifteen and sixteen year
old sophomores and junior is a lot harder. Trust me
that that's a hard gig and we have to respect
the challenges that every job brings.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Was there any pushback initially with you because you didn't
play in the big leagues?
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Well, you know, at the I got a one year
contract for one hundred and seventy five thousand dollars in
managing your games, and at the press convererence, I said
I'm on a one year plan. I took it and ran,
you know, I was. You know, it gave me a
certain sense of fearlessness, because what do I have to lose?
Any know, I've been in big league camp a little bit.
I've been around. I had coached third base. I had
(05:01):
been the eye in the sky coach for the Yankees.
I'd been there, you know.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
I was with the Yankees for nineteen years, so I
knew how it worked.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
And the last thing the fans wanted to hear was
you complained about the ownership and how hard it was
and whatever, and that's part of the gig. You know,
nobody they just you know, the fans want them to
be able to trust you and trust your team.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
You know you got foot.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
I went to the Army Navy game Saturday. I loved
watching Navy play. And I'm up in Annapolis visiting my
son who lives up here, for his birthday. But I
can trust Navy. There were three penalties that be the
whole game. You have many guys laid on the ground
and had trainers come out to get them. One for
about five seconds and he pulled himself off the field.
(05:43):
The game, they run the ball, there's no pillings. The
game's over in two and a half hours. And it's
just if you want to feel great about America, go
to an Army Navy game one time in your life.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Go great.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
I had a lot of questions to ask you, but
this is going a little bit different direction. The talks
that you and I always had in your office, You
would ask me about players, and you would always ask
me the same thing, Did he play football? Why were
you so concerned about whether a free agent played football
or not? Talking about a baseball player.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
It wasn't necessarily a football FP as much as it
was were there other things. Because these guys that are
travel only baseball only, these travel teams and all this stuff,
they're usually a red flag one from an entry standpoint.
Their body, the joints, the elbows, the knees, the shoulders.
You're getting this. I wish I could talk to the
(06:33):
parents about it. The well rounded guy that played other sports.
I remember I had a pitcher one time. I said, hey,
what positions you play when you didn't pitch? He said, oh,
I didn't. I was on the bench when I didn't pitch.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
I want.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
But you know, whether they're playing soccer or hockey or
golf or something's something that makes them do other things
with their body. And that's nothing to do with the
toughness of football necessarily. It's just when I saw I
was a big resume guy. When I would look at
a guy's path and see that he had played multiple sports,
it was it was usually something that worked in their
(07:07):
favor because.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
It probably have a higher upside. Right If in like
football teachers, you toughness, maybe basketball or soccer foot speed,
and then you know, if you max out just at
baseball at age eighteen, you're ceiling for getting better. Probably
is that high.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
I remember John Hart told me the thing that put
him over the hump on on C. C. Sabathiw As
he went to his basketball game in high school and
watched him play basketball, and he said, I'm taking this guy,
and that time was a very unconventional pick.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
That was an unconventional pick, but I love it.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
It's like taking Brandon Nemo out of a wounding high school.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
You want to have guts go out there.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
They played maybe ten twelve games a year and nobody
sees them, and all of a sudden, Brandon Nemo's your
first pick. That's why I love scouts. I love the
boots on the ground guys. And that's what Tony. You know,
Tony has that boots on the ground mentality. There's a
lot of the He's young managers are being hired earbiy goes.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
Who's that.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
They all follow a similar path for the most part.
If you look at them, and that's okay, I mean
it's okay, I you know they but I think it's
got a lot to do with what the GMS are
looking for today.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
They don't want really a.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Lot of pushback guys. They want guys that can follow
their program, which is part of it. But you know
you're not there as a collaboration to help evaluate the players.
They don't really won't care that much about what you
think about the players.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Well, it hasn't the game evolved like for maybe when
you started with the Yankees. At least for me early on,
it was like what I could do for my manager,
And when I talk to people in the industry right now,
it's more about what the manager can do for the players.
How can I increase your value in the industry? What
can I do for you? And there's kind of been
an evolution. Maybe touch on how you change as the
manager from the Yankees all the way to the Mets
(08:51):
at the end, and your evolution and maybe what Tony's
going to go through in his evolution as a big
league manager.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
Well, you're there.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
I've always felt like you're serving the needs of the players.
You know, what can I do to make their path easier?
And you try to put yourself in their shoes. And
that's what helped me a lot with guys in the bullpen,
was talking to them. I used to walk the field
during battery practice, mostly with the bullpen guys, especially the
guys that were struggling. The guys that are playing every
day and pissing every fifth day, well they didn't need
a lot of love. But I think the guys that
(09:19):
were struggling and like FP, you were great. What if
you know, you were a guy you could plug. I
always wanted to have you on the club if I could,
because you could play an outfit, you could place in
the nfield. You you know, the thing that GM's have
to do is plug into what if? And because playing
baseball seven days a week for so many months is
not normal.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
For your body.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
So what do you do if Lindor breaks his knee
his leg the first day at camp?
Speaker 3 (09:46):
What are you going to do?
Speaker 2 (09:47):
The season doesn't stop and they don't let you play
ketch up. But you know, guys like you the pieces.
You were a great piece and that's what all the
championship clubs had great pieces and the piece players had
to understand what they were. You know, some backup catches
util the info. It's the fourth outfielder and the fifth outfit.
There's a difference sound. There's this the longer leiever. Back
(10:09):
when they had longer leavers, and those guys that would
make or break you over the season is how you
plugged in. I mean, we played the playoffs one year
and I think three guys on the field weren't even
there at the start of the year because Nanny got hurt,
Chris Dads got hurt, and Matt Wiiers got hurt.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
But we had to play catchup.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Yeah, and with Freeman O'tani and Bets Miguel Rojas helped
them win a world Series. So to your point exactly,
but we got to take care of some business real quick.
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Speaker 1 (11:41):
Any one of those with lots of money on it
right now for my Christmas gifts, Buck, you mentioned surrounding
yourself with the people with experience. Now Dusty Baker's back
in the organization with the giants, Bruce Bochi's there. They
just hired Ron Washington, who I could do a whole
show on. One of the best coaches I ever had.
Taught me things at the end of my career about
playing second base that I had no idea about that
(12:01):
made it so much easier. Can you have too many
chefs in the kitchen? Can you have too much where
you're new, and this guy's telling you one thing. This
guy's telling you like maybe too many hitting coaches or
is that just a valuable commodity for Tony vai Tel
to lean on maybe in his first year.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
Well, yes it is. You can have too many.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
But these guys know because they've managed how you know,
I'm there if you need me. They're not going to
walk in every day, and neither ego stroke. These guys
know what the job entails. You know, but it can't
be like a charm bracelet.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
You know.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
I tell people, Ok, I got my Latin American guy. Well,
wait a minute, who's he actually signing? Wait a minute,
I've got a player from from Japan. Wait a minute,
is he any good? Hey, I've got I've got a
consultant guy from a veteran Was he any good? You
can't just have a charm pricer. They've got a server purpose.
And I think these guys, Bruce and those guys and Dustin,
(12:58):
they know the challenge as managers have. And basically, I'm
here for you if you want to kick something around.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
But Tony, you know, Tony's going to be fine. I'm
pulling for him.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
And I plaud the unconditionality of it, and I think
it opens up I think the top twenty college coaches
are probably making more money than the major league managers nowadays.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
So you know, I got my car.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Tires kicked about in college, but I wasn't going to
go in and kiss some fifteen year old kids butt
and try to recruit him. I can tell you that
and not recruit my own players every year.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
So whenever Tony says something at University of Tennessee to
a fifteen, sixteen year old, eighteen, nineteen year old, whatever
it is, it's gospel. He walks on water. And now
and now as you know, you've done it, You've forgot
more baseball than I'll ever know. Now you're dealing with
grown men with families that are making thirty million dollars
a year. Like, what's the challenge between dealing with teenagers
(13:53):
and dealing with guys making forty million a year?
Speaker 3 (13:56):
You know what, FP, I think, I think I have
to think about that.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
But I'm I think you had to be careful about
coaching them because they would transfer if you coach them
too hard, they might go, wait a minute, I'm going
to go to Vanderbilt. You may be mad or I'm
not getting enough money. I think some of these guys
are making more money in college, and they might be
their first three years in the minor leagues. So I
think the script a lot has changed and the way
we look at I look at some of these guys.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
Are gonna come back for their fifth.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Year in college because they're gonna be making more money.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
But Tony will be fine.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
I mean, I if he gets good players, he's going
to be real smart.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
That's how it works.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
Yeah, exactly did it go fast for you at first?
Was it just? I mean, because I know I manage
a little bit in a ball for the Giants, and
I'm coaching third base and I'm thinking about who's got
to come in in the bullpen and who I got
to get up. Meanwhile, I'm waving a guy from third
and I'm too close and he's got to go around
me because I don't know where to stand, and he
gets thrown out by ten and feet at home. But
this isn't front of three hundred people in San Jose.
(14:56):
So is it gonna go fast for him? Do you
think a first? And because he's saying things right now,
Buck like I'm overwhelmed, and he's saying it publicly. He's
super authentic and transparent right now. How do you think
it's going to go for him? Initially?
Speaker 3 (15:10):
I think authenticity will play well too.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
People are drawn to sincerity in a pure art, and
I think Tony has that. And you're trying to win.
You know, we know we see the scoreboard and see
the standings. Nobody's got his way in on how we're doing.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
We got it. But I think he'll understand the challenges.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
I know, when I first started managing the minor leagues,
I was able to coach for one year, and you know,
I got to go to winter ball. I went to
instructional league. I managed an instructional league. So when people
in the big leude said, wow, I bet you've never
seen that, I said, oh yeah, I saw that. I
saw a triple play and the ball never hit leather.
You know, I've seen all that stuff. So, but the
(15:52):
best part of your day, in Tony's day is when
the first pitch is thrown. Matt and Lee used to say, hey,
when they going to play that song, He's talking about
the nasal athan Because all the other peripheral stuff, you
get a little on compliment. But once you get in
that element of the game, it's like that first lick
that gets passed in football or the first time you
make a trip down the floor in basketball. He'll be
(16:12):
in his element and he'll be fine. It's still baseball.
You know, you got to go three hundred and sixty
feet to score a run and try to keep them
from scoring on.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
We'd make this way too complicated at Pete.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Oh my god, tell me about it now. With all
the analytics, my brain would be swimming every day with
all the information.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
Good point.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
That's a good point because in our advanced meetings, we
used to put a clock and we would start it,
and they knew that twelve to fifteen minutes. When that
clock got down to zero, we were done, you know,
sitting there for half an hour trying to show them
how smart you are and have many different things you've done.
I was very careful about what was given to our players,
you know, talking about the picture of their face and
(16:48):
talk about some things we need to be ready to
do and some things that they may try to do.
But if you throw too much at them and do
a lot of that stuff, you leave in the hitting
coach and who can remember all that stuff? And you
do see some guys at the plate, they just look confused.
The squirrels are running around and the hamsters are in
that cage and you can see that they are. They
(17:09):
ain't doing too good and mentally, and you got to
know your players who can handle it, who can't.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Yeah, when you see a guy taking one to two
fastball right down the middle, you know he's over thinking.
I see that all the time. Now I'm like, oh man, Yeah,
the analytics said that he throws a slider eighty two
percent of the time in a one to two count,
And you just took a four seamer right down the middle, dude,
like they used to be a cardinal sinned. I mean,
you were on the fastball with two strikes. Were you
ever with a team buck? And you don't have to
(17:34):
mention it or you could, which would be cool. That
was way too analytically driven. It's like uncle on all
this stuff, Like, we just got to go out there
and play American Legion baseball and be athletes.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
Now you know what. We were able to give them
the freedom.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
We were able to say, Okay, this is something that
their ears need to hear, and this is something as
a coaching staff we need. And it's not about okay now,
it's everybody's chasing a title the director or left handed
sliders in.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
The dirt, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
It's like everybody's tripping over each other to get another
title to get and it's just, hey, can we win
a game? And you know, people tell you I'm extremely
open all that stuff. This is nothing really new. We
were doing it back in the early nineties. We just
didn't have all the different numbers and all the data
that we had piled up through the years.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
You know, we think this guy's going to hit the
ball here, so we played a guy there. But you
know they all knew they would say, hey, yeah, both
would love to hear that.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
But he's going to ask you one question, how does
this help us win a game tonight and down the road.
And if you can't answer that question, if it looks
like you're just self promoting, coming up with some stick
so that you can be the new guru, it's not
going to play very well because players don't want that.
They want that night. How does this help us be
(18:53):
a better player in one a game? That's what they want?
Speaker 1 (18:57):
You know, I used to sit in those hitters meetings
and they would say, Hey, we're going to get on
this guy's high fastball, and I couldn't hit a high fastball,
and that was a team game plan. I always thought
if I ever got back into coaching buck that it
would it would benefit the players more if I had
a menu on their on their seat, on their locker
every day and they told me what they need on
today's game off of this picture. Because there's twenty six
(19:19):
guys in the clubhouse, however, many position players, and if
you have those those eyewash hitters meetings where we're you know,
fastball in slide, our away, whatever it is. I have
to have my own game plan. So if you, if you,
if you talk about tendencies from a pitcher, why not
have a guy that says this is what I need.
I need velocity, I need percentage of strikes, I need
walk to strike out, ratio, I need whatever his his
(19:41):
go to pitches with two strikes. But you tailor the
menu for each hitter, and you just I mean, with
all the analytics today, you just lay the menu on
their locker seat. When they get there, they open it
up and they you tailor the game plan for each hitter.
Did you ever have that in any of your stops?
Speaker 2 (19:57):
No, I like that that that's kind of what you
try to to. Okay, what do you need? You tell
the player, you know, what do you need, instead of going, hey,
here's what I think you need. Take this llud a minute.
It doesn't work. Everybody's different, thank goodness.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
You know.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Hey, Jeff McNeil was a great I mean, he led
the whole globe in hitting the year I was at
one of the years I was there, and he would
get down after hitting three line drives at somebody and
start and I would just get a golf magazine on
the way in and put it in his locker and
it would calm his brain down. Yeah, just things like that.
He he'd loved it. He'd walk by and hey, thanks
for the golf magazine. He's one of he's one of
(20:30):
the best. He's probably the best golfer in the biglies.
But you know, you just every guy's different, you know,
and understanding, and the only way you do that is
talk to him. You know.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
You walk around.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
I mean back when we used to have batting practice outside,
you know, and he used to walk around. I used
to love the throw batting practice. You know, that's how
you won. You got away from the media because you
could you could throw. But now it's a it's it's
the same game. FP. We try to make way too
much of this and that we over I gotta tell
(21:02):
a lot of stuff comes on the screen. It's incredibly
boring to me. You know, I'm watching the other stuff.
I'm watching the little things that tell you off ball.
I'm a big off ball guy. Everybody stays on the ball.
I'm watching the left fielder when the ball is down
the right field corners, he's back in the third. I'm
watching the catcher. I mean remember catchers used to back
(21:23):
up throws the first plase.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
Yeah, you know. And it's little things like that.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Is the picture where he's supposed to be behind the
plate with a throw coming in. A lot of guys
don't even leave the mount anymore. Like who's holding their
feet to the fire and when Tony That's gonna be
some of Tony's challenge. But guys question things. I get
to tell you stuff I don't. I don't look at things.
I don't have it done. Like I haven't been a
college coach, so I can't critique what he does, but
(21:49):
I can tell some of the challenges he may have there.
But trying to keep your players happy in college so
they won't transfer, and everybody's trying to pick them and
pluck them from you. That's what Nick Savan got out.
He got tired of recruiting his own players every year.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
Yeah. One of my best friends was the head coach
at University of Miami for a while and he just
retired because of the NIL. And you can't you can't
get mad at a player he's going to transfer. They
don't have then, Like college sports is a mess right now.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
Another reason why I love Navy. You don't they're gonna
play in a bowl game. I don't think any of
their players are going to enter the portal, you know,
and you know what they were getting paid long before
the NIL. You know, they get a salary, the Navy players,
so they were ahead of everything. And it's just, you know,
you're looking for things you can trust. I know here
in Baltimore, we just you know, I told guys, listen,
(22:37):
we're out in Seattle. Somebody back in Baltimore staying up
till one o'clock in the morning. Sea On how you
guys are doing. They're going to be late to work
or they're going to be tired, but it means something
to them. Only thing I want us to be about
is our fans should be able to trust effort and
focus and whatever, whether we win or lose. But they
should turn on the team and go, you know what,
We're going to get this from these guys every day,
(22:58):
and you've got to pick the right people that can
bring that. Every situation, whether it's New York or Texas
or Baltimore, requires a little different mode of operation. And
that's why I used to say, what do you need
me to bring here? What's what's been missing? It might
be as simple as get better players, but in Baltimore
we had to figure out a way to catch. The
Yankees and the Red Sox in Toronto all had double payrolls.
(23:21):
So what can we do that We could out relationship them.
We could out six year free agent, we could out
minor league them, we could out scout them, we could
out there were things that we if we were willing
to do, we could make up the difference. But we
created our own depth, you know, And that's that's what
you can do. If there's an excuse around every corner
if you're willing to take it.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Man, that's great stuff. That brings me to my next
question about you know, the Giants have a pretty decent
budget and they have money, but you know, you talk
about the Dodgers now and the endless payroll they have.
Can excuse me, can a team like the Giants compete
with the Dodgers with all the resources they You know,
one of.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
The keys that is your best players have to play
the game right. When I first got to Baltimore, friends
beause I told Adam, And when I'm got New York
with Linda Wore and those guys are listening, You've guys
got to play the game right. Otherwise I'm wasting my
time and I'm gonna go home. You know, I used
to tell Adam, Adam, you got to go down the line.
You got to do this. You got you can't be
just talking about it. You got to show them. And
(24:23):
I think that's that's important that your best players play
the game right if you're trying to establish something, otherwise
you're spending your wheels. I was thinking the other day
someone called me about Edwin Diaz signing with the Dodgers
and actually it may tip if the Dodgers are sitting
there again as the champion. I think it's gonna tip
(24:44):
the scales a little bit about the lockout that's looming.
I do because I think a lot of people, whether
it be fans, owners or whatever, are gonna look around
and go, wait a minute, we can't have this every year.
Or the team that just has the most money and
they make good decisions, but they're fifteen or sixteen pictures
deep heat. They were getting their pitching staff ready a
month before the World's the playoffs started, you know, they
(25:05):
were getting them all healthy and getting them lined up,
and it's uh. And they've got a good manage that
plays a good hand well, and that's hard to do playing.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
You know, Joe Tory was.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Great at playing a good hand well and finding of
these guys that the Dodgers winning. And in some ways
it might be good for baseball because it might be
the final straw that says we got a level of
play and field somehow. You know, everybody's got to have
a shot at the best player coming out in Japan,
which this face.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
If they don't, they don't, So yeah, there has to
be a better balance here. So do you think there's
going to be a lockout? What's your opinion on that.
We'll wind it up here. We gotta let you go.
But what do you think you were involved in?
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Anybody was in the strike of ninety four and the
sitting out ninety five and all the things that went on.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
They just talk to them. That was awful.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
That was a low point of my career, being in
replacement camp. It was awful. And I still remember, like yesterday,
we were in Colorado opening up courts, still with replacing players.
When we got the word up the runway that the
strike had been settled. We were heading back to spring training.
We were tearing our uniform off, running up the runway,
yelling like little kids. And but I would chant, I
(26:18):
would challenge you to talk to people that went through that.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
It was awful.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
And with the thing everything that's pulling on the people's
entertainment dollar nowadays, be careful, be careful about shutting down
the game again. But but boy, there's a there's another
part of me that we have got to level the
playing field. Every one of these teams have to have
the same opportunity going into it. And I'm not talking
(26:43):
about I'm more worried about the I would be more
concerned about the floor instead of the ceiling. I think
if you established a floor, it would it would help matters.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
But what do I know. It's smarter people than me
are now.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
I hope they figure it out because it's not good
because this one could take a walk.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
But buck along those lines in I was a minor
leaguer six years in the minors, and I was in
Triple A and the strike happened, and Kevin Malone was
our GM with the Expos and he got all two
hundred and fifty minor leaguers up at home plate and
he said, I'm going to make it easy on you guys.
You're all going over there to play in the replacement games.
If if the big leaguers give you problems, you can
(27:24):
blame me. And if anybody has a problem with that,
you can leave right now. I was the only one
out of two hundred and fifty people to put my
bag over my shoulder and walked from field four to
the clubhouse and said, I don't want to be any
part of this. And I went home. And Felipe Alou
was a big league manager just happened to be in
minor league camp that day, and he used to call
me Frankie. He said, Frankie, I've always had respect for you,
(27:45):
but what you did today, I have so much more
respect for you. He goes, you're going to be a
big leaguer this year. I'm going to call you up,
and he did. He was a man of his word.
August second that year, he called me up. And I
spent seven years in the big leagues, and I think
a big reason why is because I didn't want to
be any part of that. Me getting a hit off
a truck driver wasn't going to show Felipe Alu that
I was a major leaguer, and they tried to sell
us on that and buck. I wanted my first time
(28:06):
in the big leagues ever to be a memorable experience
where I walked in that clubhouse and I saw all
my friends and they were like, you're a scab. So
that was an easy decision for me. But like at
that time, a career minor leaguer like I walked. I
went home for a month and then they called me
back and I went back to Triple A. But yeah,
to your point, that was that was the worst time
of my career. Too.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
You know, I had a similar thing with Shane Spencer
in the World Series Hero. He was too good. We
were in this camp and it was awful. I mean
truck drivers, outlaws and Gene Michael and I the great GM.
You know, we were sitting there talking and said, you know,
Shane should not be here. He's going to play in
the Big League. He should not be here. Well, we
(28:47):
called him in and talked him into gleaning. Oh my god,
did mister Steinmaner go crazy on us? And we had
a couple other players without name and names that we
got out of camp too because they were too good.
At me, you know, we would have told you you
need to go. And I know we played the Dodgers
replacement team and they were like their whole Triple A
team and we had gone down to I don't even
(29:10):
want to tell you where we got our players from
because Steinmener told us it wasn't gonna happen, don't worry
about it. And then two days before the season gonna start,
he was talking about how bad our team was. Wait
a minute, you told us not to go get anybody.
So we had three scouts go down to Mexico and
signed six players out of the Mexican League, but it
was awful. Please do not have a lockout or strike.
(29:31):
You'll regret it. But we do have to get the
salary structure right.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
So how are you going to do it? How are
you going to do it? I'm open suggestions.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
Yeah, I want to see two Buck. I can't thank
you enough for coming on. Man, you're taking time out
of your day. You're one of my all time favorites.
You said earlier, I would have loved to play for
you one day. I wish, I wish I had. That's
one of my biggest regrets. But I'm super thankful that
I've got to know you over the years.
Speaker 3 (29:55):
And FP, where were you in ninety four?
Speaker 1 (29:58):
I was in Triple A Ottawa.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
Who would have won the World Series ninety four? The
Yankees or the expos.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
I'm gonna say, because you're on my show right now, Buck,
the Yankees would have killed the Expos.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
I don't think I'll tell you what. How about that
team Larry Walker?
Speaker 1 (30:14):
Wow?
Speaker 3 (30:15):
What a team that was, Pete. Thanks for having me.
God bless you all.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
Right, Buck, take care, happy holidays.
Speaker 3 (30:20):
Thank you YouTube, bye.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
All right, got to take care of some business right now.
We got two thousand subscribers, so we need three thousand.
So go on YouTube, click on It's really easy. We're
at splash Hit Territory on Twitter at splash Hit Territory
on Instagram. You can follow Susan, who's a frequent guest
of the show on Twitter. You can follow me too.
(30:42):
You guys have been amazing so far. We're gonna do
a mailbag the next show, so we need your questions.
Go on the YouTube in the comments, ask us some
questions what you think, and we're just gonna We're gonna
talk to you guys via your question So you can
go on Susan's Twitter, find us on Twitter, go to YouTube,
go on my Twitter, ask us questions. That's gonna be
our next show this week. What a great guest today, man,
(31:04):
that was so much fun. I'm a fanboy buck Man.
I think he's the best. I still think he should
be managed somewhere in the big leagues. But that was
really nice of him to come on. All right, we'll
get you guys there this week. Thanks for watching subscribe.
You guys are the best. And like I say on
the way out, every single time, swing hard in case
you hit it.
It's another episode of Splash Shit and we are super
lucky today to have Baseball Royalty on the show. William
Nathaniel Buck Showalter the third. He served as manager of
the Yankees, the Diamondbacks, the Rangers, the Orioles, the Mets,
four time Manager of the Year, former professional minor leaguer,
and an analyst for ESPN, YES Network, MLB Network and
(00:28):
my buddy, a guy I've got to know over the years,
Buck show Walter joins the show.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Buck.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Thanks for coming on, man, What have you been up to?
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Oh, I'm so busy. Hey, I got to ask you.
So you got my whole name? What does FP stand for?
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Frank Paul Santangelo? Frank Paul's the first name with the hyphen,
so my parents just kind of shortened it up FP
and it just stuck for over the years. And now
that's what I go by.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
I should know that. You know.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
I had a pitching coach in mynor leagues, great qv Low,
and I said, what's the QV stand for?
Speaker 3 (00:56):
He goes nothing. That was my name.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Qv is brother was like JB. They all had initials
for name. It was unde label look him up. He
was the head coach at all over Montgomery. He's a
legend down there. QB low, but FP stands for something.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
I like that.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Yeah, well that that's up for debates. Thanks for coming
on today. I was reading about you like we've had
many talks when you were manager of the Orioles, sitting
in your office, and that's how I got to know
you so well. But I did not know that in
the Cape Cod League. I won't say the year that
you won a batting title hitting four thirty four. I
think it was four Where I'm looking at Hyennas. You
played in Hyennas and then at Mississippi State you hit
(01:34):
like two ninety something and we're a fifth round draft pick,
so made it all the way to triple A? Is
that true? Is the Internet right on all these things? No?
Speaker 2 (01:43):
As usual, my kids have told me I need to
really check the Wikipedia playoff, but I guess you can
change that.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
I got better ways to spend my time. But no,
I think I hit two ninety as a career minor.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Lead, but I I think four point fifty nine at
State and you know, I gotta, I gotta. I got
a what do you call it? Telegram from Thurman Monthson.
It was the first year Hyanna's had a team in
a Cape League and he congratulated me on breaking his record,
and that was a keeper.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
I still got it in my closet. That's that's that
was cool getting that from.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Thurman, especially since you would go on and manage the
Yankees one day. That that's really really cool. So you know,
this is a Giants podcast, we talk all Giants baseball.
Uh I want to pick your brain and I've picked
your brain a lot over the years about managers and
and Tony Vaitello being the manager. Have you been following
this story and it's not the traditional path to becoming
(02:39):
a big league manager, And I think you know when
you manage the Yankees, you didn't have any big league experience,
So so maybe talk about what you think his challenges
are going to be as a first time big league
manager coming from college.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
You know, uh FP, I don't.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
I never want to be the old gallan or front
porch freeman of the kids. And we all confuse change
with a life respect for tradition. And I know when
I first started out, I was thirty five, thirty six,
and the first thing I did was surround myself with
Frank Howard Cleek Warrior, Willie Randolph, you know guys that
and I had great I had a great sponsor in
the clubhouse and Don Mattingly who had played with So
(03:18):
you know my path because guys are gonna you know,
the newness will wear off and there's no if you're
a phony, you get sniffed out in a heartbeat in
the locker room. You're around each other, as you well know,
seven days a week, seven or eight months, and sincerity plays.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
And and I know Tony a little bit, not as
well as.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
I'd like to, but uh, I'm pulling for him, and
I think he's got a good chance. I applauded Buster
for taking an unconventional route. You know, that's how things.
I just think sometimes we make way too much. I'm
big about your path.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
I am.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
When I look at a resume, I can reach some
of them for a couple of sentences, I go, oh,
that path, and you know there's been some examples of it.
But I think Tony's going.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
To do well. I do it because I think you's
got to know what you're good at, what you're not.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Like every time there's a catching instructor around, I wanted
to stick my head in there.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
Because I knew I wasn't good at it.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
And you've got to have a certain amount of humbleness
and know what you're good at what you're not. I
think he does. I mean recruiting fifteen and sixteen year
old sophomores and junior is a lot harder. Trust me
that that's a hard gig and we have to respect
the challenges that every job brings.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Was there any pushback initially with you because you didn't
play in the big leagues?
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Well, you know, at the I got a one year
contract for one hundred and seventy five thousand dollars in
managing your games, and at the press convererence, I said
I'm on a one year plan. I took it and ran,
you know, I was. You know, it gave me a
certain sense of fearlessness, because what do I have to lose?
Any know, I've been in big league camp a little bit.
I've been around. I had coached third base. I had
(05:01):
been the eye in the sky coach for the Yankees.
I'd been there, you know.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
I was with the Yankees for nineteen years, so I
knew how it worked.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
And the last thing the fans wanted to hear was
you complained about the ownership and how hard it was
and whatever, and that's part of the gig. You know,
nobody they just you know, the fans want them to
be able to trust you and trust your team.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
You know you got foot.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
I went to the Army Navy game Saturday. I loved
watching Navy play. And I'm up in Annapolis visiting my
son who lives up here, for his birthday. But I
can trust Navy. There were three penalties that be the
whole game. You have many guys laid on the ground
and had trainers come out to get them. One for
about five seconds and he pulled himself off the field.
(05:43):
The game, they run the ball, there's no pillings. The
game's over in two and a half hours. And it's
just if you want to feel great about America, go
to an Army Navy game one time in your life.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Go great.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
I had a lot of questions to ask you, but
this is going a little bit different direction. The talks
that you and I always had in your office, You
would ask me about players, and you would always ask
me the same thing, Did he play football? Why were
you so concerned about whether a free agent played football
or not? Talking about a baseball player.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
It wasn't necessarily a football FP as much as it
was were there other things. Because these guys that are
travel only baseball only, these travel teams and all this stuff,
they're usually a red flag one from an entry standpoint.
Their body, the joints, the elbows, the knees, the shoulders.
You're getting this. I wish I could talk to the
(06:33):
parents about it. The well rounded guy that played other sports.
I remember I had a pitcher one time. I said, hey,
what positions you play when you didn't pitch? He said, oh,
I didn't. I was on the bench when I didn't pitch.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
I want.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
But you know, whether they're playing soccer or hockey or
golf or something's something that makes them do other things
with their body. And that's nothing to do with the
toughness of football necessarily. It's just when I saw I
was a big resume guy. When I would look at
a guy's path and see that he had played multiple sports,
it was it was usually something that worked in their
(07:07):
favor because.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
It probably have a higher upside. Right If in like
football teachers, you toughness, maybe basketball or soccer foot speed,
and then you know, if you max out just at
baseball at age eighteen, you're ceiling for getting better. Probably
is that high.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
I remember John Hart told me the thing that put
him over the hump on on C. C. Sabathiw As
he went to his basketball game in high school and
watched him play basketball, and he said, I'm taking this guy,
and that time was a very unconventional pick.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
That was an unconventional pick, but I love it.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
It's like taking Brandon Nemo out of a wounding high school.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
You want to have guts go out there.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
They played maybe ten twelve games a year and nobody
sees them, and all of a sudden, Brandon Nemo's your
first pick. That's why I love scouts. I love the
boots on the ground guys. And that's what Tony. You know,
Tony has that boots on the ground mentality. There's a
lot of the He's young managers are being hired earbiy goes.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
Who's that.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
They all follow a similar path for the most part.
If you look at them, and that's okay, I mean
it's okay, I you know they but I think it's
got a lot to do with what the GMS are
looking for today.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
They don't want really a.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Lot of pushback guys. They want guys that can follow
their program, which is part of it. But you know
you're not there as a collaboration to help evaluate the players.
They don't really won't care that much about what you
think about the players.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Well, it hasn't the game evolved like for maybe when
you started with the Yankees. At least for me early on,
it was like what I could do for my manager,
And when I talk to people in the industry right now,
it's more about what the manager can do for the players.
How can I increase your value in the industry? What
can I do for you? And there's kind of been
an evolution. Maybe touch on how you change as the
manager from the Yankees all the way to the Mets
(08:51):
at the end, and your evolution and maybe what Tony's
going to go through in his evolution as a big
league manager.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
Well, you're there.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
I've always felt like you're serving the needs of the players.
You know, what can I do to make their path easier?
And you try to put yourself in their shoes. And
that's what helped me a lot with guys in the bullpen,
was talking to them. I used to walk the field
during battery practice, mostly with the bullpen guys, especially the
guys that were struggling. The guys that are playing every
day and pissing every fifth day, well they didn't need
a lot of love. But I think the guys that
(09:19):
were struggling and like FP, you were great. What if
you know, you were a guy you could plug. I
always wanted to have you on the club if I could,
because you could play an outfit, you could place in
the nfield. You you know, the thing that GM's have
to do is plug into what if? And because playing
baseball seven days a week for so many months is
not normal.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
For your body.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
So what do you do if Lindor breaks his knee
his leg the first day at camp?
Speaker 3 (09:46):
What are you going to do?
Speaker 2 (09:47):
The season doesn't stop and they don't let you play
ketch up. But you know, guys like you the pieces.
You were a great piece and that's what all the
championship clubs had great pieces and the piece players had
to understand what they were. You know, some backup catches
util the info. It's the fourth outfielder and the fifth outfit.
There's a difference sound. There's this the longer leiever. Back
(10:09):
when they had longer leavers, and those guys that would
make or break you over the season is how you
plugged in. I mean, we played the playoffs one year
and I think three guys on the field weren't even
there at the start of the year because Nanny got hurt,
Chris Dads got hurt, and Matt Wiiers got hurt.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
But we had to play catchup.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Yeah, and with Freeman O'tani and Bets Miguel Rojas helped
them win a world Series. So to your point exactly,
but we got to take care of some business real quick.
We got to do an ad for cash App. We'll
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Hey.
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Speaker 1 (11:41):
Any one of those with lots of money on it
right now for my Christmas gifts, Buck, you mentioned surrounding
yourself with the people with experience. Now Dusty Baker's back
in the organization with the giants, Bruce Bochi's there. They
just hired Ron Washington, who I could do a whole
show on. One of the best coaches I ever had.
Taught me things at the end of my career about
playing second base that I had no idea about that
(12:01):
made it so much easier. Can you have too many
chefs in the kitchen? Can you have too much where
you're new, and this guy's telling you one thing. This
guy's telling you like maybe too many hitting coaches or
is that just a valuable commodity for Tony vai Tel
to lean on maybe in his first year.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
Well, yes it is. You can have too many.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
But these guys know because they've managed how you know,
I'm there if you need me. They're not going to
walk in every day, and neither ego stroke. These guys
know what the job entails. You know, but it can't
be like a charm bracelet.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
You know.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
I tell people, Ok, I got my Latin American guy. Well,
wait a minute, who's he actually signing? Wait a minute,
I've got a player from from Japan. Wait a minute,
is he any good? Hey, I've got I've got a
consultant guy from a veteran Was he any good? You
can't just have a charm pricer. They've got a server purpose.
And I think these guys, Bruce and those guys and Dustin,
(12:58):
they know the challenge as managers have. And basically, I'm
here for you if you want to kick something around.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
But Tony, you know, Tony's going to be fine. I'm
pulling for him.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
And I plaud the unconditionality of it, and I think
it opens up I think the top twenty college coaches
are probably making more money than the major league managers nowadays.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
So you know, I got my car.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Tires kicked about in college, but I wasn't going to
go in and kiss some fifteen year old kids butt
and try to recruit him. I can tell you that
and not recruit my own players every year.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
So whenever Tony says something at University of Tennessee to
a fifteen, sixteen year old, eighteen, nineteen year old, whatever
it is, it's gospel. He walks on water. And now
and now as you know, you've done it, You've forgot
more baseball than I'll ever know. Now you're dealing with
grown men with families that are making thirty million dollars
a year. Like, what's the challenge between dealing with teenagers
(13:53):
and dealing with guys making forty million a year?
Speaker 3 (13:56):
You know what, FP, I think, I think I have
to think about that.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
But I'm I think you had to be careful about
coaching them because they would transfer if you coach them
too hard, they might go, wait a minute, I'm going
to go to Vanderbilt. You may be mad or I'm
not getting enough money. I think some of these guys
are making more money in college, and they might be
their first three years in the minor leagues. So I
think the script a lot has changed and the way
we look at I look at some of these guys.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
Are gonna come back for their fifth.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Year in college because they're gonna be making more money.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
But Tony will be fine.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
I mean, I if he gets good players, he's going
to be real smart.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
That's how it works.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
Yeah, exactly did it go fast for you at first?
Was it just? I mean, because I know I manage
a little bit in a ball for the Giants, and
I'm coaching third base and I'm thinking about who's got
to come in in the bullpen and who I got
to get up. Meanwhile, I'm waving a guy from third
and I'm too close and he's got to go around
me because I don't know where to stand, and he
gets thrown out by ten and feet at home. But
this isn't front of three hundred people in San Jose.
(14:56):
So is it gonna go fast for him? Do you
think a first? And because he's saying things right now,
Buck like I'm overwhelmed, and he's saying it publicly. He's
super authentic and transparent right now. How do you think
it's going to go for him? Initially?
Speaker 3 (15:10):
I think authenticity will play well too.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
People are drawn to sincerity in a pure art, and
I think Tony has that. And you're trying to win.
You know, we know we see the scoreboard and see
the standings. Nobody's got his way in on how we're doing.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
We got it. But I think he'll understand the challenges.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
I know, when I first started managing the minor leagues,
I was able to coach for one year, and you know,
I got to go to winter ball. I went to
instructional league. I managed an instructional league. So when people
in the big leude said, wow, I bet you've never
seen that, I said, oh yeah, I saw that. I
saw a triple play and the ball never hit leather.
You know, I've seen all that stuff. So, but the
(15:52):
best part of your day, in Tony's day is when
the first pitch is thrown. Matt and Lee used to say, hey,
when they going to play that song, He's talking about
the nasal athan Because all the other peripheral stuff, you
get a little on compliment. But once you get in
that element of the game, it's like that first lick
that gets passed in football or the first time you
make a trip down the floor in basketball. He'll be
(16:12):
in his element and he'll be fine. It's still baseball.
You know, you got to go three hundred and sixty
feet to score a run and try to keep them
from scoring on.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
We'd make this way too complicated at Pete.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Oh my god, tell me about it now. With all
the analytics, my brain would be swimming every day with
all the information.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
Good point.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
That's a good point because in our advanced meetings, we
used to put a clock and we would start it,
and they knew that twelve to fifteen minutes. When that
clock got down to zero, we were done, you know,
sitting there for half an hour trying to show them
how smart you are and have many different things you've done.
I was very careful about what was given to our players,
you know, talking about the picture of their face and
(16:48):
talk about some things we need to be ready to
do and some things that they may try to do.
But if you throw too much at them and do
a lot of that stuff, you leave in the hitting
coach and who can remember all that stuff? And you
do see some guys at the plate, they just look confused.
The squirrels are running around and the hamsters are in
that cage and you can see that they are. They
(17:09):
ain't doing too good and mentally, and you got to
know your players who can handle it, who can't.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Yeah, when you see a guy taking one to two
fastball right down the middle, you know he's over thinking.
I see that all the time. Now I'm like, oh man, Yeah,
the analytics said that he throws a slider eighty two
percent of the time in a one to two count,
And you just took a four seamer right down the middle, dude,
like they used to be a cardinal sinned. I mean,
you were on the fastball with two strikes. Were you
ever with a team buck? And you don't have to
(17:34):
mention it or you could, which would be cool. That
was way too analytically driven. It's like uncle on all
this stuff, Like, we just got to go out there
and play American Legion baseball and be athletes.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
Now you know what. We were able to give them
the freedom.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
We were able to say, Okay, this is something that
their ears need to hear, and this is something as
a coaching staff we need. And it's not about okay now,
it's everybody's chasing a title the director or left handed
sliders in.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
The dirt, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
It's like everybody's tripping over each other to get another
title to get and it's just, hey, can we win
a game? And you know, people tell you I'm extremely
open all that stuff. This is nothing really new. We
were doing it back in the early nineties. We just
didn't have all the different numbers and all the data
that we had piled up through the years.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
You know, we think this guy's going to hit the
ball here, so we played a guy there. But you
know they all knew they would say, hey, yeah, both
would love to hear that.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
But he's going to ask you one question, how does
this help us win a game tonight and down the road.
And if you can't answer that question, if it looks
like you're just self promoting, coming up with some stick
so that you can be the new guru, it's not
going to play very well because players don't want that.
They want that night. How does this help us be
(18:53):
a better player in one a game? That's what they want?
Speaker 1 (18:57):
You know, I used to sit in those hitters meetings
and they would say, Hey, we're going to get on
this guy's high fastball, and I couldn't hit a high fastball,
and that was a team game plan. I always thought
if I ever got back into coaching buck that it
would it would benefit the players more if I had
a menu on their on their seat, on their locker
every day and they told me what they need on
today's game off of this picture. Because there's twenty six
(19:19):
guys in the clubhouse, however, many position players, and if
you have those those eyewash hitters meetings where we're you know,
fastball in slide, our away, whatever it is. I have
to have my own game plan. So if you, if you,
if you talk about tendencies from a pitcher, why not
have a guy that says this is what I need.
I need velocity, I need percentage of strikes, I need
walk to strike out, ratio, I need whatever his his
(19:41):
go to pitches with two strikes. But you tailor the
menu for each hitter, and you just I mean, with
all the analytics today, you just lay the menu on
their locker seat. When they get there, they open it
up and they you tailor the game plan for each hitter.
Did you ever have that in any of your stops?
Speaker 2 (19:57):
No, I like that that that's kind of what you
try to to. Okay, what do you need? You tell
the player, you know, what do you need, instead of going, hey,
here's what I think you need. Take this llud a minute.
It doesn't work. Everybody's different, thank goodness.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
You know.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Hey, Jeff McNeil was a great I mean, he led
the whole globe in hitting the year I was at
one of the years I was there, and he would
get down after hitting three line drives at somebody and
start and I would just get a golf magazine on
the way in and put it in his locker and
it would calm his brain down. Yeah, just things like that.
He he'd loved it. He'd walk by and hey, thanks
for the golf magazine. He's one of he's one of
(20:30):
the best. He's probably the best golfer in the biglies.
But you know, you just every guy's different, you know,
and understanding, and the only way you do that is
talk to him. You know.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
You walk around.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
I mean back when we used to have batting practice outside,
you know, and he used to walk around. I used
to love the throw batting practice. You know, that's how
you won. You got away from the media because you
could you could throw. But now it's a it's it's
the same game. FP. We try to make way too
much of this and that we over I gotta tell
(21:02):
a lot of stuff comes on the screen. It's incredibly
boring to me. You know, I'm watching the other stuff.
I'm watching the little things that tell you off ball.
I'm a big off ball guy. Everybody stays on the ball.
I'm watching the left fielder when the ball is down
the right field corners, he's back in the third. I'm
watching the catcher. I mean remember catchers used to back
(21:23):
up throws the first plase.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
Yeah, you know. And it's little things like that.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Is the picture where he's supposed to be behind the
plate with a throw coming in. A lot of guys
don't even leave the mount anymore. Like who's holding their
feet to the fire and when Tony That's gonna be
some of Tony's challenge. But guys question things. I get
to tell you stuff I don't. I don't look at things.
I don't have it done. Like I haven't been a
college coach, so I can't critique what he does, but
(21:49):
I can tell some of the challenges he may have there.
But trying to keep your players happy in college so
they won't transfer, and everybody's trying to pick them and
pluck them from you. That's what Nick Savan got out.
He got tired of recruiting his own players every year.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
Yeah. One of my best friends was the head coach
at University of Miami for a while and he just
retired because of the NIL. And you can't you can't
get mad at a player he's going to transfer. They
don't have then, Like college sports is a mess right now.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
Another reason why I love Navy. You don't they're gonna
play in a bowl game. I don't think any of
their players are going to enter the portal, you know,
and you know what they were getting paid long before
the NIL. You know, they get a salary, the Navy players,
so they were ahead of everything. And it's just, you know,
you're looking for things you can trust. I know here
in Baltimore, we just you know, I told guys, listen,
(22:37):
we're out in Seattle. Somebody back in Baltimore staying up
till one o'clock in the morning. Sea On how you
guys are doing. They're going to be late to work
or they're going to be tired, but it means something
to them. Only thing I want us to be about
is our fans should be able to trust effort and
focus and whatever, whether we win or lose. But they
should turn on the team and go, you know what,
We're going to get this from these guys every day,
(22:58):
and you've got to pick the right people that can
bring that. Every situation, whether it's New York or Texas
or Baltimore, requires a little different mode of operation. And
that's why I used to say, what do you need
me to bring here? What's what's been missing? It might
be as simple as get better players, but in Baltimore
we had to figure out a way to catch. The
Yankees and the Red Sox in Toronto all had double payrolls.
(23:21):
So what can we do that We could out relationship them.
We could out six year free agent, we could out
minor league them, we could out scout them, we could
out there were things that we if we were willing
to do, we could make up the difference. But we
created our own depth, you know, And that's that's what
you can do. If there's an excuse around every corner
if you're willing to take it.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Man, that's great stuff. That brings me to my next
question about you know, the Giants have a pretty decent
budget and they have money, but you know, you talk
about the Dodgers now and the endless payroll they have.
Can excuse me, can a team like the Giants compete
with the Dodgers with all the resources they You know,
one of.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
The keys that is your best players have to play
the game right. When I first got to Baltimore, friends
beause I told Adam, And when I'm got New York
with Linda Wore and those guys are listening, You've guys
got to play the game right. Otherwise I'm wasting my
time and I'm gonna go home. You know, I used
to tell Adam, Adam, you got to go down the line.
You got to do this. You got you can't be
just talking about it. You got to show them. And
(24:23):
I think that's that's important that your best players play
the game right if you're trying to establish something, otherwise
you're spending your wheels. I was thinking the other day
someone called me about Edwin Diaz signing with the Dodgers
and actually it may tip if the Dodgers are sitting
there again as the champion. I think it's gonna tip
(24:44):
the scales a little bit about the lockout that's looming.
I do because I think a lot of people, whether
it be fans, owners or whatever, are gonna look around
and go, wait a minute, we can't have this every year.
Or the team that just has the most money and
they make good decisions, but they're fifteen or sixteen pictures
deep heat. They were getting their pitching staff ready a
month before the World's the playoffs started, you know, they
(25:05):
were getting them all healthy and getting them lined up,
and it's uh. And they've got a good manage that
plays a good hand well, and that's hard to do playing.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
You know, Joe Tory was.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Great at playing a good hand well and finding of
these guys that the Dodgers winning. And in some ways
it might be good for baseball because it might be
the final straw that says we got a level of
play and field somehow. You know, everybody's got to have
a shot at the best player coming out in Japan,
which this face.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
If they don't, they don't, So yeah, there has to
be a better balance here. So do you think there's
going to be a lockout? What's your opinion on that.
We'll wind it up here. We gotta let you go.
But what do you think you were involved in?
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Anybody was in the strike of ninety four and the
sitting out ninety five and all the things that went on.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
They just talk to them. That was awful.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
That was a low point of my career, being in
replacement camp. It was awful. And I still remember, like yesterday,
we were in Colorado opening up courts, still with replacing players.
When we got the word up the runway that the
strike had been settled. We were heading back to spring training.
We were tearing our uniform off, running up the runway,
yelling like little kids. And but I would chant, I
(26:18):
would challenge you to talk to people that went through that.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
It was awful.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
And with the thing everything that's pulling on the people's
entertainment dollar nowadays, be careful, be careful about shutting down
the game again. But but boy, there's a there's another
part of me that we have got to level the
playing field. Every one of these teams have to have
the same opportunity going into it. And I'm not talking
(26:43):
about I'm more worried about the I would be more
concerned about the floor instead of the ceiling. I think
if you established a floor, it would it would help matters.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
But what do I know. It's smarter people than me
are now.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
I hope they figure it out because it's not good
because this one could take a walk.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
But buck along those lines in I was a minor
leaguer six years in the minors, and I was in
Triple A and the strike happened, and Kevin Malone was
our GM with the Expos and he got all two
hundred and fifty minor leaguers up at home plate and
he said, I'm going to make it easy on you guys.
You're all going over there to play in the replacement games.
If if the big leaguers give you problems, you can
(27:24):
blame me. And if anybody has a problem with that,
you can leave right now. I was the only one
out of two hundred and fifty people to put my
bag over my shoulder and walked from field four to
the clubhouse and said, I don't want to be any
part of this. And I went home. And Felipe Alou
was a big league manager just happened to be in
minor league camp that day, and he used to call
me Frankie. He said, Frankie, I've always had respect for you,
(27:45):
but what you did today, I have so much more
respect for you. He goes, you're going to be a
big leaguer this year. I'm going to call you up,
and he did. He was a man of his word.
August second that year, he called me up. And I
spent seven years in the big leagues, and I think
a big reason why is because I didn't want to
be any part of that. Me getting a hit off
a truck driver wasn't going to show Felipe Alu that
I was a major leaguer, and they tried to sell
us on that and buck. I wanted my first time
(28:06):
in the big leagues ever to be a memorable experience
where I walked in that clubhouse and I saw all
my friends and they were like, you're a scab. So
that was an easy decision for me. But like at
that time, a career minor leaguer like I walked. I
went home for a month and then they called me
back and I went back to Triple A. But yeah,
to your point, that was that was the worst time
of my career. Too.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
You know, I had a similar thing with Shane Spencer
in the World Series Hero. He was too good. We
were in this camp and it was awful. I mean
truck drivers, outlaws and Gene Michael and I the great GM.
You know, we were sitting there talking and said, you know,
Shane should not be here. He's going to play in
the Big League. He should not be here. Well, we
(28:47):
called him in and talked him into gleaning. Oh my god,
did mister Steinmaner go crazy on us? And we had
a couple other players without name and names that we
got out of camp too because they were too good.
At me, you know, we would have told you you
need to go. And I know we played the Dodgers
replacement team and they were like their whole Triple A
team and we had gone down to I don't even
(29:10):
want to tell you where we got our players from
because Steinmener told us it wasn't gonna happen, don't worry
about it. And then two days before the season gonna start,
he was talking about how bad our team was. Wait
a minute, you told us not to go get anybody.
So we had three scouts go down to Mexico and
signed six players out of the Mexican League, but it
was awful. Please do not have a lockout or strike.
(29:31):
You'll regret it. But we do have to get the
salary structure right.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
So how are you going to do it? How are
you going to do it? I'm open suggestions.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
Yeah, I want to see two Buck. I can't thank
you enough for coming on. Man, you're taking time out
of your day. You're one of my all time favorites.
You said earlier, I would have loved to play for
you one day. I wish, I wish I had. That's
one of my biggest regrets. But I'm super thankful that
I've got to know you over the years.
Speaker 3 (29:55):
And FP, where were you in ninety four?
Speaker 1 (29:58):
I was in Triple A Ottawa.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
Who would have won the World Series ninety four? The
Yankees or the expos.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
I'm gonna say, because you're on my show right now, Buck,
the Yankees would have killed the Expos.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
I don't think I'll tell you what. How about that
team Larry Walker?
Speaker 1 (30:14):
Wow?
Speaker 3 (30:15):
What a team that was, Pete. Thanks for having me.
God bless you all.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
Right, Buck, take care, happy holidays.
Speaker 3 (30:20):
Thank you YouTube, bye.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
All right, got to take care of some business right now.
We got two thousand subscribers, so we need three thousand.
So go on YouTube, click on It's really easy. We're
at splash Hit Territory on Twitter at splash Hit Territory
on Instagram. You can follow Susan, who's a frequent guest
of the show on Twitter. You can follow me too.
(30:42):
You guys have been amazing so far. We're gonna do
a mailbag the next show, so we need your questions.
Go on the YouTube in the comments, ask us some
questions what you think, and we're just gonna We're gonna
talk to you guys via your question So you can
go on Susan's Twitter, find us on Twitter, go to YouTube,
go on my Twitter, ask us questions. That's gonna be
our next show this week. What a great guest today, man,
(31:04):
that was so much fun. I'm a fanboy buck Man.
I think he's the best. I still think he should
be managed somewhere in the big leagues. But that was
really nice of him to come on. All right, we'll
get you guys there this week. Thanks for watching subscribe.
You guys are the best. And like I say on
the way out, every single time, swing hard in case
you hit it.
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