November 11, 2025 • 37 mins
Fresh off winning his first career Gold Glove, Logan Webb joins FP and Susan to talk about the keys to his defensive improvement, his thoughts on new manager Tony Vitello and the recent staff changes, plus how the Giants rotation is shaping up and how free agency might impact that group.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
All right, splash It podcast. It's our third show. I'm
fp Santangela washed up has been Giant, current Giant. Broadcaster
Susan Sluster for The Chronicle is a frequent guest on
the show, but today it's all about our special guest.
He's going to join us for the first half of
the show. He is a gold Glove winner and the
Giants a slogan web webby. Thanks for coming on, Mat, How.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
You doing, I'm doing good. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
I mean, tell us about the gold Glove. That's pretty
cool and how that came into fruition and the award itself.
I think it's the coolest trophy in all the baseball
besides the big one that's right there in the clubhouse
when you walk on the right. But talk about winning
the gold.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Glove, Yeah, it was definitely something I you know, I
didn't I wanted to get better on defense.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
I didn't necessarily want to.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
It wasn't It wasn't like gold Glove or bus right,
and I think that's Patty's goal. I think now that
he's you know, done it a couple of times, and
but I just wanted to kind of get better at defense.
I felt like especially holding runners. I didn't know that
was that big of a.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Part of it, but it was.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
And I just wanted to put the team, honestly, in
a better position. I think I was hurting myself and
and the team by, you know, letting guys run all
over me. And I just I wanted to get better
at it. And uh, you know, it's an honor to
win it. It's really cool that, you know. I didn't
know until I got on that interview a week or
(01:35):
two ago when they said we're the first one since
Wayne Wright and YACHTI. I feel like anytime you're in
a conversation with with those two guys, it's, uh, it's
really special. And uh yeah, I got to go to
the ceremony in New York. They put on an amazing
event at the Plaza. Got to meet a bunch of
cool guys and and people there, and yeah, the award
(01:57):
is is really cool. I don't get to see mine
until next year when they I finally get to go
out there with the other guys and accept it during
before one of the games. But yeah, you know, I
I got to when if you saw the video meets
seeing the glove for the first time, But it was.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
It was really cool and happy I can share, especially
with Patty too. You know, he's one of the best.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
Defenders in baseball, if not the best if you look
at metrics and other other stuff.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
But being able to say I can do it with
him was was awesome.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
Look, you and I, You and you and I talked
a lot about, especially early in the season, about the
work you were doing about holding runners. How did somebody
help you with that? Like, was there were there any
real keys for you for that, because you I'm sure
you know, but like by the mid middle of the season,
you were so far in front of the other pitchers
(02:53):
in terms of all the metrics on holding runners. It
was outrageous and it was It just took like kind
of the off season and the start of the season
working on it. So that was really incredible.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Yeah, so it uh.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
It started honestly the year before, which is funny because
I was like the third worst defender at the pitcher position.
But we we were trying to work on some different
things and it just had a bad spring. I was
trying to be quick. I was trying to and Bomo
was like, you know, don't worry about that. We want
(03:28):
you to make your pitches and.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
It didn't hurt necessarily that much. But I felt like
I just I think.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
The Cardinal Game, I told you guys, the Cardinal Game
the year before was really tough. Thankfully, I had a
guy over there that I knew, mister Brandon, Uh, that
was like, hey, you gotta clean some of this stuff up, and.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
I did you know. I worked on it. I tried
to get better.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
I definitely had some I mean, the game nowadays it's
it goes off of tips and.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
And crazy enough. I mean I didn't know it.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
I was always would always wonder why guys would steal
on me so easily.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
But there's tips, there's tips that involve that.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
There's cameras everywhere now so I was just kind of
doing some some stuff that would keep the same rhythm,
the same taps.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
You know.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
I I know, you watch Gosman throw. You got a
bunch of the leg taps, and I kind of probably
watched them and start doing it. And I realized I
was at that point tip in a little bit.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Guys would know when I was going home.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
So a lot of people JP Boumel Rhyano, Matt William,
Mark Halber. I mean it was a whole group. Garvin Alston,
I really I would try my best. And in bullpens,
you know, when you first show up, you're throwing pens
and a lot of the times you're just trying to
get a.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Good feel for stuff.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
And I would ask them put the clock out there
and see if I can try to hold a little
bit better and you know, be a little quicker.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
And I think once I think I got into a game.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
And uh, I know in spring training everyone tries to
steal and the first couple of games, I was just
trying to be a little quicker. I was trying to
be try some different things with the clock and you know,
change the tempo a little bit, and it was working.
And I don't think I had a stolen base attempt
in spring, which was I was like, maybe I'm doing
(05:32):
something right.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
So I just try to keep it going well. I mean,
I mean, you're.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Being modest right now. I mean, you you have made
the improvements in holding runners, but you're also an athlete
out there, and you know, in the clubhouse and pictures
aren't athletes. We go back and forth all the time.
But if you're a high school quarterback and all the
plays you made the one that stands out to me
this year. There were some cool ones, but getting over
on the double play against the Dodgers and the emotion
you showed after touching the base. I mean, you've had
the diving plays where you dive at first base, But like,
(05:58):
I think you're selling yourself a little bit short. It's
not just about holding runners like you're an athlete out
there when you pitch.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
I try to be you know, it is the the
joke in the clubhouse that pitchers aren't athletes. And to
be honest, when you look at most pictures run and
then you look at some of these guys run, it's
it's it holds some truth. But yeah, I think, especially
because I get so many ground balls, I feel like
I have to be.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
You know able. I wanted to get better at catching
balls too.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
I know there's a lot of times when you know,
there's a lot of balls hit harder, especially right.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Back at me, so I gotta be good at that.
And then the getting over part. I wasn't great at that.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
I mean, there's just so many parts that I felt
like I needed to be better at to help the
team out, you know, not getting you know, a ball
hits gets hit the first I.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Gotta get over If I'm late.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Not only is that hurting you know, the team, but
it's also hurting yourself, but by not getting the double
play to get out of the inning.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
So I just wanted to.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
I just felt like I needed to in all those
parts of the game. I need to get better at.
Speaker 4 (07:03):
Yeah, you're keeping a lot more double plays in line
too with coldon the runners, yeah yeah, like and every way,
and you're getting over to first better to complete the
back end of some of those double.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
Place Yeah, and I put together perfect Well that's what
kind of JP said at the end of last year.
He's like, Hey, if we just get better at this,
you might have I don't know, eight eight to ten
less runs at the end of the season. And you
know that's a you know, that's a big part of
your like not only for the team, but like your
e RA and some other stuff, and like, why don't
(07:32):
we just try to clean up a little bit. And
I think at the end of the year, JP kind
of showed me a stat. And I don't know how
all the analysts do all this stuff, but they can
figure out, like if you didn't let them steal the
base you've saved this many runs, and I you know,
saved a decent amount of runs.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
So that's the name.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
The name of the game is just trying to keep
the team in the game as long as possible.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
And if I'm.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
You know, being a dumbass out there and giving up
a stolen base, because I'm you know, I feel bad
about it. So, like I said, trying to get better
for for all those guys. And you got Patty behind
the plate, so give him a chance to throw the
guy out.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Yeah, I mean you talk about that. I mean you
could have won a Silver Slugger Award too, if that
was still an award for pitchers, you might have won
that too.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
But we got to get to the off season news.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Tony Vitello, he's he's your new manager. What are your impressions.
When was the first time you met? What can you
share with us about your new skipper and how you
feel about that whole thing.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
Yeah, I knew about it a little bit. I knew
we were talking to him, and then I think I
knew a couple of days early, and then I reached
out to him. We texted a little back and forth,
and I was in Nashville actually this last week for
a wedding and I got to meet him in person,
which was awesome.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
He's gonna bring a lot of enthusiasm. You know. He's
you know.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
A Brillian and I think baseball guy, and he just wants,
I think, the big thing for for him and I
think something that is gonna be great for us. He
just wants everyone on the same page, like this is
this is what we're.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Trying to do. The main goal is to win at all.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
Costs, and uh, I think it's gonna be great. I
texted all the guys after where I was like, I
don't know if anyone's met him. I but I did
get get to meet him, and I you know, I
texted Chatie, Willie, I text all us saying, this guy's
this guy is gonna be awesome and I can't I
can't wait to work with him.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
When when you first when you first heard about it, Lovin,
was there any like, like, I don't know, thought in
your mind like, well, you know, he hasn't had any
pro experience of any kind, playing, coaching, managing. Uh, maybe
there might be some veterans that might not totally be
on board with that. Was that a concern and do
you do you feel like the personality and the experience
and the success he's had, the level he is just
(09:55):
like wipes any of that out.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
I really don't. I don't know how much much all
that really matters, I think.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
I mean, there's people that are in the game for
twenty years and they get a manager job and they
don't do a good job.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
So it's it's all I think at the end of
the day, like what.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
Tony wants, which is like the unity of the team
part everything, everyone on the same page.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
I think that's I mean, that's the main thing.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
I think when you get you know, we're with each
other for a long time, and there's times when you're
sick of each other.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
You know, it's like I things aren't going well.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
There are a lot of lots of times this year
where you know there's long stretches, right, we lose fourteen
to fifteen at home, whatever the number was. I think
at the end of the day, you find a guy
like Tony who is going to try to keep the
room together and try to keep the everyone motivated.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
I I think.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
The the big thing is like shortening though you're gonna
have moments where you might I don't know what the
number is, but I know the Dodgers at multiple times
this year had times when they things weren't going well.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
It happens. Like I said, it's a long season.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
But I think the teams that can keep those periods
shorter than others are the teams that have success. And
I think that's kind of the big thing that a
guy with energy like that will will try to bring.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Does Buster and Zach keep you in the loop on
who the candidates are? Do they bounce it off maybe
the core veteran players to see what they think and
get your feelings on stuff.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
I mean a little bit. Yeah, you know, I talked
to Buster at the end of the year. I talked
to Zach at the end of the year. I didn't
know any of that was going to happen. They didn't
tell me that, you know, Bomo would wouldn't be back.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
But you know, we talked about players.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
I think I think Buster and them do a good
job keeping it like two positions. I can't tell you
what a second baseman or you know, any position like,
I can't tell you who's good and who's not.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
You know, I I don't.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
Really know, but I feel like they do a good
job of asking about, Hey, how do you feel about
this picture? Not as much as the old regime, I
would say I definitely heard a lot more from those
guys about things. I think Buster kind of likes to
keep it to himself, which which is great. At the
end of the day, it's not my job to get
(12:31):
the guys or.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
I think.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
I just got to focus on myself, try to get
better in the offseason, and you know, try to win
as many games as I can.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
Next year, obviously there's some staff changes and JP and
Garvin JPI leaving and Garvin's not coming back. How do
you feel about those? Those are obviously the guys you
worked most closely with. And you know that, y'all you'll
be looking at a new pitching coach, assisting pitching coach
or bullpen coach, whatever they call that position.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
Yeah, I've been with j JP since twenty twenty one,
so that's definitely gonna be kind of a change for me.
You know, I've I've very close with JP. He's helped
me a lot in a lot of different ways. I
thought he did a great job last year. I thought
Garvin did a great job last year. I've known Garvin
for before he was with the Giants, So yeah, it's
(13:27):
gonna be it'll be different. I'm excited for both of
them wherever. I know JP's going to Atlanta. Uh, he
gets to be back with Shortzy, which I'm excited for
for him. And I know Antoine's over there too, so
it'll be that'll be a good staff. And uh, I
don't know where she's going yet, but I know whatever
team that does get him is getting a great guy
(13:47):
and a great pitching coach.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
So but yeah, excited to I don't know.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
I'm not, like I said, I'm not in the loop
that much for all this stuff, so I don't know,
but I'm sure. I'm sure Uster is gonna pick a
great guy. I know Tony will pick a great guy.
So excited to work with whoever.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
I think. I think too. It gets to the point where.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
You know, as a as a veteran guy, I don't
need I'm not saying I don't need. I do need,
but not as much as I did when I was younger.
So really it's just getting on the same page with
whoever they bring in.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
And that's what I was gonna ask you. Well, you
can Textbuster that you want Max Schurzer to be a giant.
Nobody was gonna ask you that, like maybe a little
bit deeper into like it's your eighth year in the
big leagues, you're a salty veteran now, Like there's certain
hitting coaches that spoke my love language, some that didn't,
and when they don't, it's frustrating and you're just not
(14:42):
speaking the same language. So at this point in your career,
like you just said, kind of it's not that important,
but you talked about JP and the holding the runners
and and it is.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
I'm okay, I'm gonna rephrase that. It is very important, Okay,
I I yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
So how important is it to you at this point
in your career?
Speaker 2 (14:59):
This law winded question, I guess.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
I guess what I was kind of saying was more
like the scouting part of it, like before a game.
I think also too, with like catch play and bullpens,
Like it's more I would say with the older guys,
it's more like, hey, do you see anything, Like I'm
throwing a bullpen.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
I know what I'm seeing, I know what I'm feeling.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
I'm to the point now where I feel like I
can change on my own, like I know that that's
not right, but it's nice to have. And that's what
was great about JP is I've had him for so
long where I could be like, Hey, what am I doing?
And he could be like, remember when we did this
and twenty twenty two and.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
It got you right back. So I guess. I guess
it is very very important.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
And I was kind of more thinking the scouting part
of things and stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Oh it makes sense.
Speaker 4 (15:54):
You mentioned, you know, busters sometimes in the previous administration
bouncing some stuff off of you about, you know, potential
free agents and additions and stuff like that. We're kind
of up to that time again. I talked to Greg
Johnson last week and he mentioned he thinks that you
guys need at least one more Veterans Starter, depending on
what happens with Justin Verlander and whether it comes back
(16:16):
or not. Maybe too so. Obviously Schuser's names out there
for obvious reasons. Justin's out there. How do you kind
of see things? Do you do you feel like you
need another Veterans Starter or two? And do you have
any insights?
Speaker 3 (16:32):
I no, I I think this was a.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
A lot of weird things happen this year.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
You know, Justin gets hurt kind of in a tough
part of the year, and then you know, Rupe getting
hurt really hurt us in San Diego, and then you know,
there's some other things that happened. You know, I still
think the organization and all of us think the world
of Hayden bird Song, you know, I think, uh, like
(17:01):
I said, just some weird stuff happened. Uh, I think
there's still a bright future for for Hayden, and and
we're excited about that.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
And there's some other guys you can be really excited about.
Speaker 4 (17:11):
You know.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
I think wizend Hunt's a really good picture. There's a
ton of young guys down there. I think Trevor McDonald
at the end of the year was uh, you know,
really impressive. You know, we got to see him last
the year before, like the last game he was like
a spot, Hey, let's throw three innings and he did amazing.
And then this year he came in and I thought
he did a great job again. So there's a lot
(17:35):
of really good pieces that we have, obviously, you know,
me and Robbie and you know, I would love to
have Justin back. I thought, Justin back to the kind
of the scouting part of things helped me so much,
uh in my career, not only just mentality, you know,
the scouting part of it, seeing reading different things that
(17:58):
I might you know.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Not I've seen before.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
And I would love justin to come back. Like I said,
it's not my decision. I don't get to decide these things.
I saw the Max thing. I know Tony knows them
from a long time ago, so and I'm sure I'm
sure it would be very similar.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Learning as much as I can and then yeah, you.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Know, I I think at the end, I always try
to find guys and get better in certain ways. I've
seen a lot of comments about trying to get starting
pitching and and and other other spots. So like I said,
just show up and try to try to do try
to get better as for myself, and then kind of
let the other pieces fall as they may.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
You're getting better right now. You just came from your workout.
Maybe take us quickly through like what your off season workouts,
like how hard you work and how that's evolved over
the years, because I know for myself like that was
always an evolutionary process, Like different off seasons were different things,
and are you working on anything different like different pitches
or anything. I saw the back and forth with Brent
(19:03):
Rooker about the split knuckle ball and splits like the
thing with Yamamoto now in the world. Yeah, take us
through like your off season. Workout what you're going through
right now.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
Well, first off, I'm just trying to get Brent to
to think of something else, right Like, if I tell
him I'm throwing a splitter knuckleball, he'll try he'll actually
believe me for a second.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
He's no chance he actually believes me.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
But but yeah, I think, yeah, they're always trying to
find new ways to get a pitch better.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
You know, last offseason it.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
Was trying to get my change up back to the
where it was the year before. It was adding the cutter,
trying to there's always tink tinkering to try to get
maybe an inch more on my sweeper, you know, maybe
add an extra tick of velocity, which I try to
do every year and it never happens. But but yeah,
(19:55):
there's always new things.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
I think as you get older, you learn your body
a little bit better.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
Definitely, I don't try to lift as much, like as
heavy as I used to. I'm not trying to deadlift
the world or squat the world or bench as much
as I can. I think that's uh, that was a younger,
younger me thing. Now it's kind of hurts a little
bit more so it's just trying to I think it's
more maintaining now I have done it. I've been at
(20:22):
the same gym for six years now push performance here
in Arizona, and.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
I've loved the workouts. I do it during the season
as well, and.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
Just trying to trying to get better in different areas,
Like you know, I'm trying to make my hips a
little more better for you know, whatever that is.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
You know, there's.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
Always uh parts of the off season where you're trying
to get a little more athletic or you're trying to
do different things.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
So I'm excited about it. Uh, definitely.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
I thought at the end of the year, I saw
I there's some mechanical things that I was really excited
about that I felt, you know, talking to people and
trying to keep going with that, try to get better
at that.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Well, you're a strikeout guy now four strikeouts. You led
the National League in strikeouts? Is that your new thing?
Are you just blowing guys away?
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Next year? Who knows?
Speaker 3 (21:10):
Maybe it's a fluke here. I won the gold Glove.
I was the worst defender and I won the gold Glove.
And I'm not a strikeout guy, and I struck out all,
you know, more guys than I ever have. But no,
that's that's kind of the evolvment thing. That's, you know,
trying to get better in certain ways. Definitely, I think
Justin was a big part of the strikeouts going up,
(21:31):
you know, finding new ways to to get strikes early
and counts, throwing different pitches.
Speaker 4 (21:36):
You know.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
I felt like before i'd get in trouble with it
too where I would just kind of heavily lean on
my change up and if it's the eighth or ninth
time the guy's seen it in a game, it's probably
not going to be as effective. And learning I can
throw other pitches and different counts, and I thought that
was really cool. And yes, try to get to try
(22:00):
to get a little better. I think definitely, you know,
I do think the extra velo is a thing. I'm
not chasing one hundred, but I think if I can
maintain it a little longer in games, I know, I
you know, I can get to ninety four ninety five
early in a game and then by the end of
the game it's ninety two. So if I can maintain
(22:21):
a little better, and that's part of the mechanical things
that I'm excited about.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
Susan, you asked one more, and I'll ask one more and.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
We'll let them go.
Speaker 4 (22:27):
Well, I've got the really important one. Since it's yas season,
I'm wondering how you're doing in the fantasy.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Football I have.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
I so in the Giants one. I think I'm in
a playoff spot right now. I think of six and four,
so not bad. I'm honestly five hundred in like every league,
which I don't know if I'm excited about that that
I'm not bad in any league, but it's been a
weird I feel like it's been a weird football year.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
You know. I have one league where I have like.
Speaker 3 (22:56):
Six of the best players and they're just not working
out for me, and I'm not in the playoffs in
that league. But in another league, I don't have as
good as players and I'm in the playoffs.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
So it's just it's all weird.
Speaker 4 (23:08):
I would say I'm rooting for you in the Giants one,
except for I think we would all love to see
you be the bat boy for a day, So I
don't know's that's that's tough one.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Well Chappie.
Speaker 3 (23:18):
So Chappie won the league last year and his team
is not very good this year. So I'm hoping we
get to see Matt Chapman, uh bat boy sighting this year.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
He'd actually have to take a Yeah, last one, Logan,
we let you go. Thank you so much for coming on.
This is huge for our podcast. You're first guest ever.
It's been great. I know you just want to gold glove.
I know Asa Young means a lot to you too.
But what would a World championship in the San Francisco
(23:49):
Giants uniform in the logan web?
Speaker 3 (23:52):
Oh, it'd be the best, you know, I I've I
came up in an error with uh.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
You know, there's a lot lot of guys still there
from the championship years.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
It was bomb I mean, I'm gonna keep naming Bombbuster,
crab Bell all these guys, right, And I got to
see firsthand how much it meant to these guys and
how much the Giants mean to them, and it was
really cool. And then I had my first really full
season was twenty one, and we won one hundred and
seven games, and I thought there was no chance that
(24:25):
any team was going to beat us. We I just
felt that way, and we came close, not really that close, but.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
You know, one run away from going to the CS.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
And and I, uh, you know, I just thought that
was gonna how it was, how it was going to
be the rest of my career here, Right's uh, it's
the Giants were just going to keep winning and unfortunately
hasn't worked out. It's starting to get, you know, more
and more frustrating at the end of seasons. But it's
it's it's just something that I want to do. I mean,
(24:57):
I think everybody wants if you're playing the big leagues,
you want to win a World Series, but it's especially
it would be especially great to win it in a
Giants uniform. I'm I'm hoping I'm here my whole career,
but that's not always it doesn't always work out that way.
So you know, I got three more years left on
my contract, and I just hope, you know, hopefully it's
(25:17):
this year, right and hopefully we you know, Buster goes
out and signs all the best players and we trade
for all the best players. But but no, I I think, Uh,
I think we're on the right track.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
I think we have a good core of guy, core
group of guys.
Speaker 3 (25:31):
I think bringing a guy like Tony is gonna be
a huge part of it. And uh, I'm super excited
for this year. But I feel like I'm going away
from your question. Yes, that is the that is something
that I I, you know, hopefully look forward.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
To doing in a Giants uniform, you know.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
Yeah, Yeah, we got all the guys, the boat she got,
you know, bringing saves back.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
You're just all the all the It's it's exciting. It's exciting. Webby.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
Thanks so much, man, I know it's you're working out.
You take time for us. It means a lot to us,
bro and I look forward to seeing you soon.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Yeah, Kelly, and we really appreciate that. Yeah, thank you
guys for having me. Ye guys, bye.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
So that was cool. Fun, That was fun, a little
probably kept a little bit too long.
Speaker 4 (26:20):
Yeah, we've stuff to talk about still too.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
It's on the spot with the pitching coach question. I
thought it's yeah.
Speaker 4 (26:28):
Hey, that's all right, it's all fun we've got but
we've got other stuff to talk about.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Well, I mean, just to recap though with Logan Webb
before we get to that stuff, like you and I
spend pretty much every day with him over a six
seven month period, and we're around a lot of different players.
You've been doing it for a long time. I've been
doing it for a long time, and we've seen the
evolution of the major league player. Yeah, and it's so
refreshing to see a guy who gets it, who's old school,
(26:56):
who wants to win, that really doesn't even care about
the numbers of the wars that he just wants a championship.
And whenever you talk to him about baseball in the
clubhouse or in the dugout during batting practice, or on
the plane or on the bus wherever, it's always about
like what can I do and what can we do
to get better? He cares about winning so much, and
it's just so refreshing to be around the guy. And
(27:17):
I've said this on my radio shows before, I think
when it's all said and done, whenever he decides to
hang him up, I'm not usually a fan of a
pitcher being a major league manager, but he would be
a great major league manager when he decides to retire someday.
Speaker 4 (27:30):
Oh, I think he could do whatever he wants. I mean,
he obviously would be a really good broadcaster too if
he wanted to do that. You know, he he's got
one of those big personalities, but he's also you know,
funny and really really honest, which is a reporter. You know,
those are the guys that you really cherish, is the
(27:51):
guys that really care and are very honest and super
accessible because obviously look at him. He came to be
our first guest, which which we're super excited about. So
thanks again to Logan Web for joining us today. But
the GM meetings are going on, always a big deal,
and the Giants did make a little transaction the other
day FP with taking Mason Black off the roster, they
(28:14):
lose him to the Royals, so they swung a little
trade sent Mason Black to the Royals. Any thoughts on that,
because you know a few years ago he put together
probably the best season by any Giants minor league pitcher.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
I don't really have many thoughts on it because I
don't know who they got in return. I do know
that Mason Black at times was really really good and
there was other times where it would go south in
a hurry. So I just think if you can spin
somebody for somebody else, and you like what you see
and that that picture and and it makes your team better.
I have faith in Buster and Zacht that they're always
(28:50):
going to make the right move. So yeah, that's that's
kind of a that's kind of a side note, to
be honest.
Speaker 4 (28:58):
I really I really like Mason. He was never showed
quite exactly I think what we expected, but man really
really smart, smart guy and a good teammate, like all
the one of those guys. The coaches all loved him,
you know, that kind of that kind of guy so
and and teammates love him, which which goes a long way.
Not a lot of news typically comes out of the
(29:19):
GM meetings, you know. That's kind of everybody just sort
of taking the temperature of the room before we get
going in the the winter meetings in a couple of
weeks in Orlando. But one thing I have been hearing,
and I've been hearing from scouts with with several different teams,
is there's a lot of interest right now in Luis Matos.
You have any thoughts on that. You've seen plenty of
Matos the last couple of years.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
I think he's been giving been given a lot of opportunities,
and there's there's just a certain part of his game
that might be not.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
What they're looking for.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
And you could say he's been sent to Triple A
and back with the last regime, and but like when
you get your day in the sun and you get opportunities,
you really got to shine. So there's been glimpses of
really good but there's also been more of like bad
jumps in the outfield and the base running and kind
of the intangibles that you look forward to winning player.
Not that he's a winning player or he can't develop
(30:11):
into that, but when you're in win and nowtright mode,
you know, I think there's still a lot of development there.
And I don't know if the Giants have the patience
or the time, based on the division they're in and
where they're at as a franchise, to let that development happen. Well.
Speaker 4 (30:25):
My one concern, to be quite frank, is we've seen
an awful lot of players come up from the upper
levers of the minor leagues in the last couple of
years who are not terrific base runners and who, especially
among the outfielders, tend to make some mistakes in the
outfield so I don't know if that's a development thing.
I'm not quite sure what's going on there, but I
(30:48):
do hope that that's something that's addressed, because you and
I both talk about this all the time, and I
think anybody that watches or listens to this podcast a
lot is going to learn that's one that, like you
both feel so strongly, you better be able to run
the basis well and play your position like there's no
excuse for a big league player not to be able
to do those things.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
Susan, the difference between a parade in a World Series
ring was this much because of a primary lead and
a secondary lead on a contact play at third base.
That's how important base running is. And if I'm Tony
Vitello and it's my first day of spring training, which
I'm not, I'm just a dork on a show right now,
that like I would be like this much. This much
(31:30):
was the difference between a World championship, and we're going
to work on this much every day this season, whatever
aspect of the game it is, we're going to work
on this much.
Speaker 4 (31:40):
That's what we expected last season. What's what the Giant
said coming into the spring. Defense and pitching defense and pitching.
We can't make mistakes. We're a team that can't afford
to make mistakes, and they made too many mistakes. Look,
every player is going to make a mistake here and there,
every player, but we just saw too many, and often
from the young players. They were made them consistently, and
(32:01):
that's just that's They've got to address that. So that's
a big one.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
Well, I think they are. They they think they are.
Randy Winn is addressing that. And I will say this
about the last regime, and this is as honest as
I can be. And I've talked to current players on
the big league roster and they've they've expressed the same
things to me that with the Farhun era, it was
all about launch angle, exit, velocity, spin rate. There wasn't
(32:26):
a lot of emphasis on bunting guys over base running
and the fundamental aspects of the game. But we're seeing
the game with the Brewers and the Blue Jays and
teams like that evolved into the baseball that you and
I grew up and most of the fans watching this
grew up with. So when you have an organization that's
just developing, swing hard in case you hit it, throw
it as hard as you can for as long as
(32:46):
you can, and you're getting promoted not based on being
a complete baseball player, but you're getting promoted based on
your exit velocity was ninety eight and over this whole week,
and you're barreling up baseballs. Meanwhile, you don't know where
to stand on a cutoff. You don't know how to
run the bases and go first to third, You don't
know how to bun a guy over. You don't even
know how to get a guy over with a runner
and second and two outs because none of that has
(33:08):
been emphasized. So when you see these guys come up
and you're like, what in the world that's all being
emphasized now with Randy Winn running the whole thing and
Buster Posey and Zach Manassei, and so what you're going
to see in the future from Giants players is a
more complete player, a winning type championship player, where maybe
it was just all about talent and not you're all
around game in the past.
Speaker 4 (33:27):
Yeah, well, and you think about last year. You know,
they were arguably two or three games shy of a
playoff spot like eighty one to a one not acceptable,
But they weren't that far off a playoff spot. You
make fewer mistakes probably in the playoffs, and at that
point anything can happen. Giants fans to know that better
than anyway. But you know, Buster Posey was the kind
of player who did everything right. Zach Manasziin came from
(33:50):
the Brewers. These are guys who know that this is
the way to win baseball games, particularly when you're in
a division with a behem of like the Dodgers. You
got to do everything right. So but I do think
it's interesting that if the Giants are talking to any
of these teams that seem to have interest in Luis Matos,
you know, Drew Gilbert obviously, I think we've all assumed
(34:10):
is going to be, you know, at least a regular
or semi regular. But maybe this opens up a spot
for a free agent as they look at free agency now,
or a trade or trade. Sure, did I just say,
did you have some ideas the FP?
Speaker 1 (34:28):
I don't know if you look great in the Giants uniform,
because I don't think he's crazy happy based on what
I'm reading and seeing.
Speaker 4 (34:34):
Didn't he already turn down the Giants once though? I
mean the money was.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Basically if you trade for him.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
I think he's friends with Tony. He would waive his
no trade clause to come play in San Francisco, I
really do. And if you want to get as far
as where he play, wherever he wants, like wherever you want.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
But can he play second base?
Speaker 1 (34:50):
Can Brice play second.
Speaker 4 (34:54):
I don't know, Raphael Evers like it looks looks like
a freaking potential gold glove winner first base.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
I mean, there's there's rumors out there and you hear things,
But I think JT Realmuto and we should do a
whole show on the free agents and who the Giants
should sign. Maybe we'll do that next, but I'll look
at you just throwing the font up there.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
I think JT would be a great addition.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
I know Patrick Bailey's a goal glove catcher, but JT's
in his mid thirties, maybe even a little bit later
than that, and he's such a leader, and he's such
a presence in the clubhouse, and he knows you talk
to pitchers in Philadelphia, and like what he brings to
the table just in his knowledge of you know, pressing
the right buttons, putting the right fingers down and then
he plays against lefties and Bailey plays against righty's, and
Bailey hits left handed, which is right handed deficient as
(35:36):
a switch hitter. And now you have two fresh catchers
and if they both buy in, I mean, wouldn't that
be a great one two punch. But I guess the
question is, would he be JT be willing to do that?
Speaker 4 (35:46):
Do you trade Bryce Eldridge if you could get, you know,
a superstar type player. I'm not necessarily saying a Harper,
but because I do think that's a long shot, be
super fun. But would you trade a Bryce Eldridge to
get a big all around type player?
Speaker 1 (36:01):
Yes, that's probably blasphemous on the Giant's podcast right now
here come here come the police because I said.
Speaker 4 (36:09):
Yeah, they were like, what did you say?
Speaker 1 (36:11):
I love Bryce Eldridge the person, and I think he's
going to be a great player. I think when you're
in win now mode? Do is he ready to be?
Is he ready to be the every day first baseman
this year? And that's a question you have to see
in spring training.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
You know, he was hurt when he.
Speaker 4 (36:25):
Was a DH is the first basement?
Speaker 2 (36:28):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (36:29):
And you know what I I do struggle with that.
Do you want to he just turned twenty one? Do
you want a twenty one year old first, Baseman? I
mean a DH That's that's just that's that's tough to do,
is to stick a kid write it? Do you but
you know that's mostly what he did.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
Did you trade.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
Bryce Eldridge in a package for Bryce Harper and just
go Bryce for Bryce?
Speaker 4 (36:49):
You have to throw a lot of other guys in that.
I want to see that package first. It can't just
be Bryce's.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
I think you could do that straight up, but we'll see. Anyways,
that's why I'm not a GM and I'm doing a
show on the internet right now.
Speaker 3 (37:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (37:07):
I do kind of like that just as an easy
story to write, that's for sure.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
Bryce for Bryce. All right, well, podcast number three in
the books. We got our first guest on and like
the Ace of the San Francisco Giants was nice enough
to come on. We're gonna get big guests. We have
Tony Vtello possibly lined up for next week. I gotta
tease that. And it's just gonna be a listers besides
saw Us. I mean, but like we're gonna just have
as many Giants guests and this is gonna blow up.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
That was great.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
Thank you very much, and like I always say on
my radio show, swing hard in case you hit it.
All right, splash It podcast. It's our third show. I'm
fp Santangela washed up has been Giant, current Giant. Broadcaster
Susan Sluster for The Chronicle is a frequent guest on
the show, but today it's all about our special guest.
He's going to join us for the first half of
the show. He is a gold Glove winner and the
Giants a slogan web webby. Thanks for coming on, Mat, How.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
You doing, I'm doing good. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
I mean, tell us about the gold Glove. That's pretty
cool and how that came into fruition and the award itself.
I think it's the coolest trophy in all the baseball
besides the big one that's right there in the clubhouse
when you walk on the right. But talk about winning
the gold.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Glove, Yeah, it was definitely something I you know, I
didn't I wanted to get better on defense.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
I didn't necessarily want to.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
It wasn't It wasn't like gold Glove or bus right,
and I think that's Patty's goal. I think now that
he's you know, done it a couple of times, and
but I just wanted to kind of get better at defense.
I felt like especially holding runners. I didn't know that
was that big of a.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Part of it, but it was.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
And I just wanted to put the team, honestly, in
a better position. I think I was hurting myself and
and the team by, you know, letting guys run all
over me. And I just I wanted to get better
at it. And uh, you know, it's an honor to
win it. It's really cool that, you know. I didn't
know until I got on that interview a week or
(01:35):
two ago when they said we're the first one since
Wayne Wright and YACHTI. I feel like anytime you're in
a conversation with with those two guys, it's, uh, it's
really special. And uh yeah, I got to go to
the ceremony in New York. They put on an amazing
event at the Plaza. Got to meet a bunch of
cool guys and and people there, and yeah, the award
(01:57):
is is really cool. I don't get to see mine
until next year when they I finally get to go
out there with the other guys and accept it during
before one of the games. But yeah, you know, I
I got to when if you saw the video meets
seeing the glove for the first time, But it was.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
It was really cool and happy I can share, especially
with Patty too. You know, he's one of the best.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
Defenders in baseball, if not the best if you look
at metrics and other other stuff.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
But being able to say I can do it with
him was was awesome.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
Look, you and I, You and you and I talked
a lot about, especially early in the season, about the
work you were doing about holding runners. How did somebody
help you with that? Like, was there were there any
real keys for you for that, because you I'm sure
you know, but like by the mid middle of the season,
you were so far in front of the other pitchers
(02:53):
in terms of all the metrics on holding runners. It
was outrageous and it was It just took like kind
of the off season and the start of the season
working on it. So that was really incredible.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Yeah, so it uh.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
It started honestly the year before, which is funny because
I was like the third worst defender at the pitcher position.
But we we were trying to work on some different
things and it just had a bad spring. I was
trying to be quick. I was trying to and Bomo
was like, you know, don't worry about that. We want
(03:28):
you to make your pitches and.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
It didn't hurt necessarily that much. But I felt like
I just I think.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
The Cardinal Game, I told you guys, the Cardinal Game
the year before was really tough. Thankfully, I had a
guy over there that I knew, mister Brandon, Uh, that
was like, hey, you gotta clean some of this stuff up, and.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
I did you know. I worked on it. I tried
to get better.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
I definitely had some I mean, the game nowadays it's
it goes off of tips and.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
And crazy enough. I mean I didn't know it.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
I was always would always wonder why guys would steal
on me so easily.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
But there's tips, there's tips that involve that.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
There's cameras everywhere now so I was just kind of
doing some some stuff that would keep the same rhythm,
the same taps.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
You know.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
I I know, you watch Gosman throw. You got a
bunch of the leg taps, and I kind of probably
watched them and start doing it. And I realized I
was at that point tip in a little bit.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Guys would know when I was going home.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
So a lot of people JP Boumel Rhyano, Matt William,
Mark Halber. I mean it was a whole group. Garvin Alston,
I really I would try my best. And in bullpens,
you know, when you first show up, you're throwing pens
and a lot of the times you're just trying to
get a.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Good feel for stuff.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
And I would ask them put the clock out there
and see if I can try to hold a little
bit better and you know, be a little quicker.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
And I think once I think I got into a game.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
And uh, I know in spring training everyone tries to
steal and the first couple of games, I was just
trying to be a little quicker. I was trying to
be try some different things with the clock and you know,
change the tempo a little bit, and it was working.
And I don't think I had a stolen base attempt
in spring, which was I was like, maybe I'm doing
(05:32):
something right.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
So I just try to keep it going well. I mean,
I mean, you're.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Being modest right now. I mean, you you have made
the improvements in holding runners, but you're also an athlete
out there, and you know, in the clubhouse and pictures
aren't athletes. We go back and forth all the time.
But if you're a high school quarterback and all the
plays you made the one that stands out to me
this year. There were some cool ones, but getting over
on the double play against the Dodgers and the emotion
you showed after touching the base. I mean, you've had
the diving plays where you dive at first base, But like,
(05:58):
I think you're selling yourself a little bit short. It's
not just about holding runners like you're an athlete out
there when you pitch.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
I try to be you know, it is the the
joke in the clubhouse that pitchers aren't athletes. And to
be honest, when you look at most pictures run and
then you look at some of these guys run, it's
it's it holds some truth. But yeah, I think, especially
because I get so many ground balls, I feel like
I have to be.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
You know able. I wanted to get better at catching
balls too.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
I know there's a lot of times when you know,
there's a lot of balls hit harder, especially right.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Back at me, so I gotta be good at that.
And then the getting over part. I wasn't great at that.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
I mean, there's just so many parts that I felt
like I needed to be better at to help the
team out, you know, not getting you know, a ball
hits gets hit the first I.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Gotta get over If I'm late.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Not only is that hurting you know, the team, but
it's also hurting yourself, but by not getting the double
play to get out of the inning.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
So I just wanted to.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
I just felt like I needed to in all those
parts of the game. I need to get better at.
Speaker 4 (07:03):
Yeah, you're keeping a lot more double plays in line
too with coldon the runners, yeah yeah, like and every way,
and you're getting over to first better to complete the
back end of some of those double.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
Place Yeah, and I put together perfect Well that's what
kind of JP said at the end of last year.
He's like, Hey, if we just get better at this,
you might have I don't know, eight eight to ten
less runs at the end of the season. And you
know that's a you know, that's a big part of
your like not only for the team, but like your
e RA and some other stuff, and like, why don't
(07:32):
we just try to clean up a little bit. And
I think at the end of the year, JP kind
of showed me a stat. And I don't know how
all the analysts do all this stuff, but they can
figure out, like if you didn't let them steal the
base you've saved this many runs, and I you know,
saved a decent amount of runs.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
So that's the name.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
The name of the game is just trying to keep
the team in the game as long as possible.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
And if I'm.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
You know, being a dumbass out there and giving up
a stolen base, because I'm you know, I feel bad
about it. So, like I said, trying to get better
for for all those guys. And you got Patty behind
the plate, so give him a chance to throw the
guy out.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Yeah, I mean you talk about that. I mean you
could have won a Silver Slugger Award too, if that
was still an award for pitchers, you might have won
that too.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
But we got to get to the off season news.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Tony Vitello, he's he's your new manager. What are your impressions.
When was the first time you met? What can you
share with us about your new skipper and how you
feel about that whole thing.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
Yeah, I knew about it a little bit. I knew
we were talking to him, and then I think I
knew a couple of days early, and then I reached
out to him. We texted a little back and forth,
and I was in Nashville actually this last week for
a wedding and I got to meet him in person,
which was awesome.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
He's gonna bring a lot of enthusiasm. You know. He's
you know.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
A Brillian and I think baseball guy, and he just wants,
I think, the big thing for for him and I
think something that is gonna be great for us. He
just wants everyone on the same page, like this is
this is what we're.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Trying to do. The main goal is to win at all.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
Costs, and uh, I think it's gonna be great. I
texted all the guys after where I was like, I
don't know if anyone's met him. I but I did
get get to meet him, and I you know, I
texted Chatie, Willie, I text all us saying, this guy's
this guy is gonna be awesome and I can't I
can't wait to work with him.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
When when you first when you first heard about it, Lovin,
was there any like, like, I don't know, thought in
your mind like, well, you know, he hasn't had any
pro experience of any kind, playing, coaching, managing. Uh, maybe
there might be some veterans that might not totally be
on board with that. Was that a concern and do
you do you feel like the personality and the experience
and the success he's had, the level he is just
(09:55):
like wipes any of that out.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
I really don't. I don't know how much much all
that really matters, I think.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
I mean, there's people that are in the game for
twenty years and they get a manager job and they
don't do a good job.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
So it's it's all I think at the end of
the day, like what.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
Tony wants, which is like the unity of the team
part everything, everyone on the same page.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
I think that's I mean, that's the main thing.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
I think when you get you know, we're with each
other for a long time, and there's times when you're
sick of each other.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
You know, it's like I things aren't going well.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
There are a lot of lots of times this year
where you know there's long stretches, right, we lose fourteen
to fifteen at home, whatever the number was. I think
at the end of the day, you find a guy
like Tony who is going to try to keep the
room together and try to keep the everyone motivated.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
I I think.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
The the big thing is like shortening though you're gonna
have moments where you might I don't know what the
number is, but I know the Dodgers at multiple times
this year had times when they things weren't going well.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
It happens. Like I said, it's a long season.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
But I think the teams that can keep those periods
shorter than others are the teams that have success. And
I think that's kind of the big thing that a
guy with energy like that will will try to bring.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Does Buster and Zach keep you in the loop on
who the candidates are? Do they bounce it off maybe
the core veteran players to see what they think and
get your feelings on stuff.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
I mean a little bit. Yeah, you know, I talked
to Buster at the end of the year. I talked
to Zach at the end of the year. I didn't
know any of that was going to happen. They didn't
tell me that, you know, Bomo would wouldn't be back.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
But you know, we talked about players.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
I think I think Buster and them do a good
job keeping it like two positions. I can't tell you
what a second baseman or you know, any position like,
I can't tell you who's good and who's not.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
You know, I I don't.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
Really know, but I feel like they do a good
job of asking about, Hey, how do you feel about
this picture? Not as much as the old regime, I
would say I definitely heard a lot more from those
guys about things. I think Buster kind of likes to
keep it to himself, which which is great. At the
end of the day, it's not my job to get
(12:31):
the guys or.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
I think.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
I just got to focus on myself, try to get
better in the offseason, and you know, try to win
as many games as I can.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
Next year, obviously there's some staff changes and JP and
Garvin JPI leaving and Garvin's not coming back. How do
you feel about those? Those are obviously the guys you
worked most closely with. And you know that, y'all you'll
be looking at a new pitching coach, assisting pitching coach
or bullpen coach, whatever they call that position.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
Yeah, I've been with j JP since twenty twenty one,
so that's definitely gonna be kind of a change for me.
You know, I've I've very close with JP. He's helped
me a lot in a lot of different ways. I
thought he did a great job last year. I thought
Garvin did a great job last year. I've known Garvin
for before he was with the Giants, So yeah, it's
(13:27):
gonna be it'll be different. I'm excited for both of
them wherever. I know JP's going to Atlanta. Uh, he
gets to be back with Shortzy, which I'm excited for
for him. And I know Antoine's over there too, so
it'll be that'll be a good staff. And uh, I
don't know where she's going yet, but I know whatever
team that does get him is getting a great guy
(13:47):
and a great pitching coach.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
So but yeah, excited to I don't know.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
I'm not, like I said, I'm not in the loop
that much for all this stuff, so I don't know,
but I'm sure. I'm sure Uster is gonna pick a
great guy. I know Tony will pick a great guy.
So excited to work with whoever.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
I think. I think too. It gets to the point where.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
You know, as a as a veteran guy, I don't
need I'm not saying I don't need. I do need,
but not as much as I did when I was younger.
So really it's just getting on the same page with
whoever they bring in.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
And that's what I was gonna ask you. Well, you
can Textbuster that you want Max Schurzer to be a giant.
Nobody was gonna ask you that, like maybe a little
bit deeper into like it's your eighth year in the
big leagues, you're a salty veteran now, Like there's certain
hitting coaches that spoke my love language, some that didn't,
and when they don't, it's frustrating and you're just not
(14:42):
speaking the same language. So at this point in your career,
like you just said, kind of it's not that important,
but you talked about JP and the holding the runners
and and it is.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
I'm okay, I'm gonna rephrase that. It is very important, Okay,
I I yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
So how important is it to you at this point
in your career?
Speaker 2 (14:59):
This law winded question, I guess.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
I guess what I was kind of saying was more
like the scouting part of it, like before a game.
I think also too, with like catch play and bullpens,
Like it's more I would say with the older guys,
it's more like, hey, do you see anything, Like I'm
throwing a bullpen.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
I know what I'm seeing, I know what I'm feeling.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
I'm to the point now where I feel like I
can change on my own, like I know that that's
not right, but it's nice to have. And that's what
was great about JP is I've had him for so
long where I could be like, Hey, what am I doing?
And he could be like, remember when we did this
and twenty twenty two and.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
It got you right back. So I guess. I guess
it is very very important.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
And I was kind of more thinking the scouting part
of things and stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Oh it makes sense.
Speaker 4 (15:54):
You mentioned, you know, busters sometimes in the previous administration
bouncing some stuff off of you about, you know, potential
free agents and additions and stuff like that. We're kind
of up to that time again. I talked to Greg
Johnson last week and he mentioned he thinks that you
guys need at least one more Veterans Starter, depending on
what happens with Justin Verlander and whether it comes back
(16:16):
or not. Maybe too so. Obviously Schuser's names out there
for obvious reasons. Justin's out there. How do you kind
of see things? Do you do you feel like you
need another Veterans Starter or two? And do you have
any insights?
Speaker 3 (16:32):
I no, I I think this was a.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
A lot of weird things happen this year.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
You know, Justin gets hurt kind of in a tough
part of the year, and then you know, Rupe getting
hurt really hurt us in San Diego, and then you know,
there's some other things that happened. You know, I still
think the organization and all of us think the world
of Hayden bird Song, you know, I think, uh, like
(17:01):
I said, just some weird stuff happened. Uh, I think
there's still a bright future for for Hayden, and and
we're excited about that.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
And there's some other guys you can be really excited about.
Speaker 4 (17:11):
You know.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
I think wizend Hunt's a really good picture. There's a
ton of young guys down there. I think Trevor McDonald
at the end of the year was uh, you know,
really impressive. You know, we got to see him last
the year before, like the last game he was like
a spot, Hey, let's throw three innings and he did amazing.
And then this year he came in and I thought
he did a great job again. So there's a lot
(17:35):
of really good pieces that we have, obviously, you know,
me and Robbie and you know, I would love to
have Justin back. I thought, Justin back to the kind
of the scouting part of things helped me so much,
uh in my career, not only just mentality, you know,
the scouting part of it, seeing reading different things that
(17:58):
I might you know.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Not I've seen before.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
And I would love justin to come back. Like I said,
it's not my decision. I don't get to decide these things.
I saw the Max thing. I know Tony knows them
from a long time ago, so and I'm sure I'm
sure it would be very similar.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Learning as much as I can and then yeah, you.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Know, I I think at the end, I always try
to find guys and get better in certain ways. I've
seen a lot of comments about trying to get starting
pitching and and and other other spots. So like I said,
just show up and try to try to do try
to get better as for myself, and then kind of
let the other pieces fall as they may.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
You're getting better right now. You just came from your workout.
Maybe take us quickly through like what your off season workouts,
like how hard you work and how that's evolved over
the years, because I know for myself like that was
always an evolutionary process, Like different off seasons were different things,
and are you working on anything different like different pitches
or anything. I saw the back and forth with Brent
(19:03):
Rooker about the split knuckle ball and splits like the
thing with Yamamoto now in the world. Yeah, take us
through like your off season. Workout what you're going through
right now.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
Well, first off, I'm just trying to get Brent to
to think of something else, right Like, if I tell
him I'm throwing a splitter knuckleball, he'll try he'll actually
believe me for a second.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
He's no chance he actually believes me.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
But but yeah, I think, yeah, they're always trying to
find new ways to get a pitch better.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
You know, last offseason it.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
Was trying to get my change up back to the
where it was the year before. It was adding the cutter,
trying to there's always tink tinkering to try to get
maybe an inch more on my sweeper, you know, maybe
add an extra tick of velocity, which I try to
do every year and it never happens. But but yeah,
(19:55):
there's always new things.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
I think as you get older, you learn your body
a little bit better.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
Definitely, I don't try to lift as much, like as
heavy as I used to. I'm not trying to deadlift
the world or squat the world or bench as much
as I can. I think that's uh, that was a younger,
younger me thing. Now it's kind of hurts a little
bit more so it's just trying to I think it's
more maintaining now I have done it. I've been at
(20:22):
the same gym for six years now push performance here
in Arizona, and.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
I've loved the workouts. I do it during the season
as well, and.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
Just trying to trying to get better in different areas,
Like you know, I'm trying to make my hips a
little more better for you know, whatever that is.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
You know, there's.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
Always uh parts of the off season where you're trying
to get a little more athletic or you're trying to
do different things.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
So I'm excited about it. Uh, definitely.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
I thought at the end of the year, I saw
I there's some mechanical things that I was really excited
about that I felt, you know, talking to people and
trying to keep going with that, try to get better
at that.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Well, you're a strikeout guy now four strikeouts. You led
the National League in strikeouts? Is that your new thing?
Are you just blowing guys away?
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Next year? Who knows?
Speaker 3 (21:10):
Maybe it's a fluke here. I won the gold Glove.
I was the worst defender and I won the gold Glove.
And I'm not a strikeout guy, and I struck out all,
you know, more guys than I ever have. But no,
that's that's kind of the evolvment thing. That's, you know,
trying to get better in certain ways. Definitely, I think
Justin was a big part of the strikeouts going up,
(21:31):
you know, finding new ways to to get strikes early
and counts, throwing different pitches.
Speaker 4 (21:36):
You know.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
I felt like before i'd get in trouble with it
too where I would just kind of heavily lean on
my change up and if it's the eighth or ninth
time the guy's seen it in a game, it's probably
not going to be as effective. And learning I can
throw other pitches and different counts, and I thought that
was really cool. And yes, try to get to try
(22:00):
to get a little better. I think definitely, you know,
I do think the extra velo is a thing. I'm
not chasing one hundred, but I think if I can
maintain it a little longer in games, I know, I
you know, I can get to ninety four ninety five
early in a game and then by the end of
the game it's ninety two. So if I can maintain
(22:21):
a little better, and that's part of the mechanical things
that I'm excited about.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
Susan, you asked one more, and I'll ask one more and.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
We'll let them go.
Speaker 4 (22:27):
Well, I've got the really important one. Since it's yas season,
I'm wondering how you're doing in the fantasy.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Football I have.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
I so in the Giants one. I think I'm in
a playoff spot right now. I think of six and four,
so not bad. I'm honestly five hundred in like every league,
which I don't know if I'm excited about that that
I'm not bad in any league, but it's been a
weird I feel like it's been a weird football year.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
You know. I have one league where I have like.
Speaker 3 (22:56):
Six of the best players and they're just not working
out for me, and I'm not in the playoffs in
that league. But in another league, I don't have as
good as players and I'm in the playoffs.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
So it's just it's all weird.
Speaker 4 (23:08):
I would say I'm rooting for you in the Giants one,
except for I think we would all love to see
you be the bat boy for a day, So I
don't know's that's that's tough one.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Well Chappie.
Speaker 3 (23:18):
So Chappie won the league last year and his team
is not very good this year. So I'm hoping we
get to see Matt Chapman, uh bat boy sighting this year.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
He'd actually have to take a Yeah, last one, Logan,
we let you go. Thank you so much for coming on.
This is huge for our podcast. You're first guest ever.
It's been great. I know you just want to gold glove.
I know Asa Young means a lot to you too.
But what would a World championship in the San Francisco
(23:49):
Giants uniform in the logan web?
Speaker 3 (23:52):
Oh, it'd be the best, you know, I I've I
came up in an error with uh.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
You know, there's a lot lot of guys still there
from the championship years.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
It was bomb I mean, I'm gonna keep naming Bombbuster,
crab Bell all these guys, right, And I got to
see firsthand how much it meant to these guys and
how much the Giants mean to them, and it was
really cool. And then I had my first really full
season was twenty one, and we won one hundred and
seven games, and I thought there was no chance that
(24:25):
any team was going to beat us. We I just
felt that way, and we came close, not really that close, but.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
You know, one run away from going to the CS.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
And and I, uh, you know, I just thought that
was gonna how it was, how it was going to
be the rest of my career here, Right's uh, it's
the Giants were just going to keep winning and unfortunately
hasn't worked out. It's starting to get, you know, more
and more frustrating at the end of seasons. But it's
it's it's just something that I want to do. I mean,
(24:57):
I think everybody wants if you're playing the big leagues,
you want to win a World Series, but it's especially
it would be especially great to win it in a
Giants uniform. I'm I'm hoping I'm here my whole career,
but that's not always it doesn't always work out that way.
So you know, I got three more years left on
my contract, and I just hope, you know, hopefully it's
(25:17):
this year, right and hopefully we you know, Buster goes
out and signs all the best players and we trade
for all the best players. But but no, I I think, Uh,
I think we're on the right track.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
I think we have a good core of guy, core
group of guys.
Speaker 3 (25:31):
I think bringing a guy like Tony is gonna be
a huge part of it. And uh, I'm super excited
for this year. But I feel like I'm going away
from your question. Yes, that is the that is something
that I I, you know, hopefully look forward.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
To doing in a Giants uniform, you know.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
Yeah, Yeah, we got all the guys, the boat she got,
you know, bringing saves back.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
You're just all the all the It's it's exciting. It's exciting. Webby.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
Thanks so much, man, I know it's you're working out.
You take time for us. It means a lot to us,
bro and I look forward to seeing you soon.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Yeah, Kelly, and we really appreciate that. Yeah, thank you
guys for having me. Ye guys, bye.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
So that was cool. Fun, That was fun, a little
probably kept a little bit too long.
Speaker 4 (26:20):
Yeah, we've stuff to talk about still too.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
It's on the spot with the pitching coach question. I
thought it's yeah.
Speaker 4 (26:28):
Hey, that's all right, it's all fun we've got but
we've got other stuff to talk about.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Well, I mean, just to recap though with Logan Webb
before we get to that stuff, like you and I
spend pretty much every day with him over a six
seven month period, and we're around a lot of different players.
You've been doing it for a long time. I've been
doing it for a long time, and we've seen the
evolution of the major league player. Yeah, and it's so
refreshing to see a guy who gets it, who's old school,
(26:56):
who wants to win, that really doesn't even care about
the numbers of the wars that he just wants a championship.
And whenever you talk to him about baseball in the
clubhouse or in the dugout during batting practice, or on
the plane or on the bus wherever, it's always about
like what can I do and what can we do
to get better? He cares about winning so much, and
it's just so refreshing to be around the guy. And
(27:17):
I've said this on my radio shows before, I think
when it's all said and done, whenever he decides to
hang him up, I'm not usually a fan of a
pitcher being a major league manager, but he would be
a great major league manager when he decides to retire someday.
Speaker 4 (27:30):
Oh, I think he could do whatever he wants. I mean,
he obviously would be a really good broadcaster too if
he wanted to do that. You know, he he's got
one of those big personalities, but he's also you know,
funny and really really honest, which is a reporter. You know,
those are the guys that you really cherish, is the
(27:51):
guys that really care and are very honest and super
accessible because obviously look at him. He came to be
our first guest, which which we're super excited about. So
thanks again to Logan Web for joining us today. But
the GM meetings are going on, always a big deal,
and the Giants did make a little transaction the other
day FP with taking Mason Black off the roster, they
(28:14):
lose him to the Royals, so they swung a little
trade sent Mason Black to the Royals. Any thoughts on that,
because you know a few years ago he put together
probably the best season by any Giants minor league pitcher.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
I don't really have many thoughts on it because I
don't know who they got in return. I do know
that Mason Black at times was really really good and
there was other times where it would go south in
a hurry. So I just think if you can spin
somebody for somebody else, and you like what you see
and that that picture and and it makes your team better.
I have faith in Buster and Zacht that they're always
(28:50):
going to make the right move. So yeah, that's that's
kind of a that's kind of a side note, to
be honest.
Speaker 4 (28:58):
I really I really like Mason. He was never showed
quite exactly I think what we expected, but man really
really smart, smart guy and a good teammate, like all
the one of those guys. The coaches all loved him,
you know, that kind of that kind of guy so
and and teammates love him, which which goes a long way.
Not a lot of news typically comes out of the
(29:19):
GM meetings, you know. That's kind of everybody just sort
of taking the temperature of the room before we get
going in the the winter meetings in a couple of
weeks in Orlando. But one thing I have been hearing,
and I've been hearing from scouts with with several different teams,
is there's a lot of interest right now in Luis Matos.
You have any thoughts on that. You've seen plenty of
Matos the last couple of years.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
I think he's been giving been given a lot of opportunities,
and there's there's just a certain part of his game
that might be not.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
What they're looking for.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
And you could say he's been sent to Triple A
and back with the last regime, and but like when
you get your day in the sun and you get opportunities,
you really got to shine. So there's been glimpses of
really good but there's also been more of like bad
jumps in the outfield and the base running and kind
of the intangibles that you look forward to winning player.
Not that he's a winning player or he can't develop
(30:11):
into that, but when you're in win and nowtright mode,
you know, I think there's still a lot of development there.
And I don't know if the Giants have the patience
or the time, based on the division they're in and
where they're at as a franchise, to let that development happen. Well.
Speaker 4 (30:25):
My one concern, to be quite frank, is we've seen
an awful lot of players come up from the upper
levers of the minor leagues in the last couple of
years who are not terrific base runners and who, especially
among the outfielders, tend to make some mistakes in the
outfield so I don't know if that's a development thing.
I'm not quite sure what's going on there, but I
(30:48):
do hope that that's something that's addressed, because you and
I both talk about this all the time, and I
think anybody that watches or listens to this podcast a
lot is going to learn that's one that, like you
both feel so strongly, you better be able to run
the basis well and play your position like there's no
excuse for a big league player not to be able
to do those things.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
Susan, the difference between a parade in a World Series
ring was this much because of a primary lead and
a secondary lead on a contact play at third base.
That's how important base running is. And if I'm Tony
Vitello and it's my first day of spring training, which
I'm not, I'm just a dork on a show right now,
that like I would be like this much. This much
(31:30):
was the difference between a World championship, and we're going
to work on this much every day this season, whatever
aspect of the game it is, we're going to work
on this much.
Speaker 4 (31:40):
That's what we expected last season. What's what the Giant
said coming into the spring. Defense and pitching defense and pitching.
We can't make mistakes. We're a team that can't afford
to make mistakes, and they made too many mistakes. Look,
every player is going to make a mistake here and there,
every player, but we just saw too many, and often
from the young players. They were made them consistently, and
(32:01):
that's just that's They've got to address that. So that's
a big one.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
Well, I think they are. They they think they are.
Randy Winn is addressing that. And I will say this
about the last regime, and this is as honest as
I can be. And I've talked to current players on
the big league roster and they've they've expressed the same
things to me that with the Farhun era, it was
all about launch angle, exit, velocity, spin rate. There wasn't
(32:26):
a lot of emphasis on bunting guys over base running
and the fundamental aspects of the game. But we're seeing
the game with the Brewers and the Blue Jays and
teams like that evolved into the baseball that you and
I grew up and most of the fans watching this
grew up with. So when you have an organization that's
just developing, swing hard in case you hit it, throw
it as hard as you can for as long as
(32:46):
you can, and you're getting promoted not based on being
a complete baseball player, but you're getting promoted based on
your exit velocity was ninety eight and over this whole week,
and you're barreling up baseballs. Meanwhile, you don't know where
to stand on a cutoff. You don't know how to
run the bases and go first to third, You don't
know how to bun a guy over. You don't even
know how to get a guy over with a runner
and second and two outs because none of that has
(33:08):
been emphasized. So when you see these guys come up
and you're like, what in the world that's all being
emphasized now with Randy Winn running the whole thing and
Buster Posey and Zach Manassei, and so what you're going
to see in the future from Giants players is a
more complete player, a winning type championship player, where maybe
it was just all about talent and not you're all
around game in the past.
Speaker 4 (33:27):
Yeah, well, and you think about last year. You know,
they were arguably two or three games shy of a
playoff spot like eighty one to a one not acceptable,
But they weren't that far off a playoff spot. You
make fewer mistakes probably in the playoffs, and at that
point anything can happen. Giants fans to know that better
than anyway. But you know, Buster Posey was the kind
of player who did everything right. Zach Manasziin came from
(33:50):
the Brewers. These are guys who know that this is
the way to win baseball games, particularly when you're in
a division with a behem of like the Dodgers. You
got to do everything right. So but I do think
it's interesting that if the Giants are talking to any
of these teams that seem to have interest in Luis Matos,
you know, Drew Gilbert obviously, I think we've all assumed
(34:10):
is going to be, you know, at least a regular
or semi regular. But maybe this opens up a spot
for a free agent as they look at free agency now,
or a trade or trade. Sure, did I just say,
did you have some ideas the FP?
Speaker 1 (34:28):
I don't know if you look great in the Giants uniform,
because I don't think he's crazy happy based on what
I'm reading and seeing.
Speaker 4 (34:34):
Didn't he already turn down the Giants once though? I
mean the money was.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Basically if you trade for him.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
I think he's friends with Tony. He would waive his
no trade clause to come play in San Francisco, I
really do. And if you want to get as far
as where he play, wherever he wants, like wherever you want.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
But can he play second base?
Speaker 1 (34:50):
Can Brice play second.
Speaker 4 (34:54):
I don't know, Raphael Evers like it looks looks like
a freaking potential gold glove winner first base.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
I mean, there's there's rumors out there and you hear things,
But I think JT Realmuto and we should do a
whole show on the free agents and who the Giants
should sign. Maybe we'll do that next, but I'll look
at you just throwing the font up there.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
I think JT would be a great addition.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
I know Patrick Bailey's a goal glove catcher, but JT's
in his mid thirties, maybe even a little bit later
than that, and he's such a leader, and he's such
a presence in the clubhouse, and he knows you talk
to pitchers in Philadelphia, and like what he brings to
the table just in his knowledge of you know, pressing
the right buttons, putting the right fingers down and then
he plays against lefties and Bailey plays against righty's, and
Bailey hits left handed, which is right handed deficient as
(35:36):
a switch hitter. And now you have two fresh catchers
and if they both buy in, I mean, wouldn't that
be a great one two punch. But I guess the
question is, would he be JT be willing to do that?
Speaker 4 (35:46):
Do you trade Bryce Eldridge if you could get, you know,
a superstar type player. I'm not necessarily saying a Harper,
but because I do think that's a long shot, be
super fun. But would you trade a Bryce Eldridge to
get a big all around type player?
Speaker 1 (36:01):
Yes, that's probably blasphemous on the Giant's podcast right now
here come here come the police because I said.
Speaker 4 (36:09):
Yeah, they were like, what did you say?
Speaker 1 (36:11):
I love Bryce Eldridge the person, and I think he's
going to be a great player. I think when you're
in win now mode? Do is he ready to be?
Is he ready to be the every day first baseman
this year? And that's a question you have to see
in spring training.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
You know, he was hurt when he.
Speaker 4 (36:25):
Was a DH is the first basement?
Speaker 2 (36:28):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (36:29):
And you know what I I do struggle with that.
Do you want to he just turned twenty one? Do
you want a twenty one year old first, Baseman? I
mean a DH That's that's just that's that's tough to do,
is to stick a kid write it? Do you but
you know that's mostly what he did.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
Did you trade.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
Bryce Eldridge in a package for Bryce Harper and just
go Bryce for Bryce?
Speaker 4 (36:49):
You have to throw a lot of other guys in that.
I want to see that package first. It can't just
be Bryce's.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
I think you could do that straight up, but we'll see. Anyways,
that's why I'm not a GM and I'm doing a
show on the internet right now.
Speaker 3 (37:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (37:07):
I do kind of like that just as an easy
story to write, that's for sure.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
Bryce for Bryce. All right, well, podcast number three in
the books. We got our first guest on and like
the Ace of the San Francisco Giants was nice enough
to come on. We're gonna get big guests. We have
Tony Vtello possibly lined up for next week. I gotta
tease that. And it's just gonna be a listers besides
saw Us. I mean, but like we're gonna just have
as many Giants guests and this is gonna blow up.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
That was great.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
Thank you very much, and like I always say on
my radio show, swing hard in case you hit it.
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