November 6, 2025 • 35 mins
Bruce Bochy is nearing a return to the fold, and F.P. and Susan break down owner Greg Johnson's recent comments about the payroll, team needs and Tony Vitello. Plus: Bonds and Kent are on the Eras Committee ballot, Bonds for the second time - a look at their Hall of Fame chances from a guy who played in the Steroid Era and a writer on the ballot committee.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
All right, it's episode number two. Is Splash Hit our
new show here on follow Territory Network. Subscribe to Splash
Hit Territory on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts.
Susan Slusser, frequent contributor, My friend is back for show
number two. Susan, what's going on?
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Not a lot glad to be here again. For people
that didn't listen to the first show, first of all,
go back and listen to it. Why didn't you? Second?
Explaining very quickly, I spend like the first month of
the off season in London, so that's where I am
right now. If things look a little dark. It's a
lot later here than you are in beautiful California, though
(00:42):
it sounds a little stormy today.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
A little stormy, and I have to get up early
to do this because we have like an eight hour
time difference, so I have bags under my eyes. It's
a little dark where you're at right now, but we'll
figure it out and get it done. It was fun
to do in the first show, and we got a
lot of great responds on Twitter. I think people were
excited that the Giants have a new show on the
File Territory Network. So a lot of clicks, a lot
(01:05):
of views. We're gonna have a lot of big guests.
We're just trying to hit the ground running. You and
I get a rhythm together, and then we're going after
the big fish. We're gonna have big guests on here,
and it's gonna be fun to talk to some of
the bigger people in Giants Land.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Yeah, and that you know, I hope that might be
when I the days where my schedule does not permit me,
So you might have some amazing people. But I hope
that maybe we can save some of the if we
if you land a super big fish, I hope maybe
I can sneak into the studio on one of those.
So we'll see what we got coming up first here.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Well, we just run down the show real quick. Bruce
Bochie's back in the fold. You had a great article
with Greg Johnson, a little Q and A. So there's
a lot of Giants news for our second show, but
I think the number one is Boach's back man. And
when you talk about a manager that doesn't have a
lot of or zero professional experience, I mean, what a
resource to have Dusty Baker and Bruce Bochie around. Tony
(02:00):
Vitello Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
I was so delighted when Greg Johnson mentioned just sort
of in passing the other days, like, oh wait, it
hasn't been announced yet, but you know, things are kind
of progressing here with Bruce Bochi and it makes so
much sense, not just for Tony Vitello, but oh my gosh,
what a resource. Four time World Series Champion manager? Are
you kidding to bounce things off along with Dusty Baker,
(02:25):
but also for Buster. I mean, Bochi was his manager
almost his entire career, so he you know, he's a
guy he can take anbjective opinion coming from another organization,
the Rangers, and come in kind of with fresh eyes
and really just be a resource for everybody, but especially
right now the two most important people in the organization
(02:48):
in Buster Posey and Tony Vitello. So I mean, there's,
of course there's no downside to having Bruce Bochi around,
and for the media, we love it. Let's get Boacha
on sometime.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Wicked Boatcha and Tony Vtello's in the works as we speak,
so the word is out that we're trying to get
him on this podcast. But Susan, when you talk about
having people around the organization, as resources. I've been with
organizations where they just pay a guy to stand in
the corner and maybe talk to a few reporters and
shake hands with some fans, and you keep like legends around.
(03:18):
I remember my time with the Yankees. They participated in
spring training. It was a lot like the Giants this year.
Ron Guidry was throwing me batting practice, and then I
went to the cage and Don Maddenley's doing flips to me,
and all I can think of as Don thinks my
swing sucks. He must be laughing at me right now,
because he's one of the best hitters ever. We'll get
to Doc Matting in a little bit when we get
to the Hall of Fame discussion. But to have these
(03:40):
guys around and then to use them not just figureheads
in a wax museum of great giants managers of the past,
but we're talking about Hall of Fame managers. Dusty Baker's
a Hall of Fame manager. Obviously, Bruce Bochi's a Hall
of Fame manager. We could do a whole show on
how I think Felipe Alou is a Hall of Fame
manager too. So to organizations head back to back to back,
(04:01):
Hall of fame managers, but to have those guys around
for Tony Bytello and end game, you're on your own, baby,
the training wheels are off. You got to make the
decisions real time. But like maybe after the game to
open a bottle of wine in his office or get
there early and say, you know, what would you have
done differently last night? And all of a sudden, you
know that experience helps. And I think, I don't know
(04:24):
if you have similar experiences as being a writer starting
out and having mentors, but you know I have some
as a player and as a broadcaster where if I
didn't have those people, I wouldn't be here today.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Yeah, no doubt about it. I think it's really important
to have just have somebody who's been through it before.
But even more so in a job like manager, there
are very specific situations that crop up, and sometimes ones
nobody's seen before. You're rarely going to have a situation
that Bruce Bochi has not run into at one port
or another.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
It's great, it's great. It'll just be great to have
boats around. From a selfish standpoint, I've missed him when
I came back to San Francisco. We'd sit together in
the games, probably right by you. And I got to
know Boch a lot better than I did when he
was the manager and I was just doing the pre
and post game. So excited to have him back. I'm
also excited about your interview with Greg Johnson, Giant's owner,
(05:16):
and it was in the chronicle, and you talked about
a number of things, and the article is getting a
little bit of play too. Fans are kind of dissecting
what he said to you. And anytime he talks about
things and says anything about payroll or anything about Dodgers,
it's obviously in the news. But you talked about him
with Tony Vitello, the hiring, the off season needs. So
(05:40):
maybe just break that down a little bit. How'd that
conversation go? Was it? Was it a friendly conversation or
was it all business?
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Like?
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Take us behind the scenes a little bit. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Greg is always good to deal with. You know, we
try to talk at least once a year, and I
like doing it in a Q and A format, so
it's really transparent. You know what we talked about, how
he sort of approached his answers, you know what we
delved into. We talked for so long. I actually had
to cut quite a bit of it for space, and
then I wound up doing something I almost never do
(06:09):
and reordered it to start off with the bochie stuff
because that was such an interesting bit and very exciting
bit of news. But some of the highlights I'll tell
you are really that Bruce that Greg Johnson is happy
to go over the threshold, the tax threshold, so that
(06:32):
one eighty five million payroll right now that could go up.
He sees them going after at least one or two
veteran starters, but he was pretty clear that would be
probably somebody on a shorter term deal. So that yeah, yeah,
sure's are makes the most obvious choice. You know, I
(06:54):
really like Verlander, but you're not going to get both
of them on the same team. This is not a
retread of the Tigers, I don't think, But yeah, were
they I don't I think that that's I think that's
probably going to get one or the other. But sureser
(07:14):
would be fun. You know, you cover one, have one
Hall of Famer to follow and then another one in
the next year. That would be who wouldn't love that?
So that would be super fun. But he had really
positive things to say about Tony Vitella, of course, but
he said kind of like all of us. When Buster
(07:34):
Posey first brought up the name, he was a little
sort of you know, he had to google him, and
then he immediately called a bunch of people he knew
who'd gone to Tennessee to to gauge their reaction. Of course,
you talked to somebody from Tennessee and the reactions are
just off the charts positive. So he thought, okay, well
this is interesting. And then as things started progressing, and
then he talked to Tony Vitello, I think all you
(07:56):
have to do is he's talked to Tony Vitello and
get like a really genuine sense of him. And he thought,
you know, this guy isn't just you know, it's not
smoke and mirrors. And he mentioned that Dwayne Kuiper had
said to him after the press conference. I thought this
was this guy might be just like kind of a
really good bser, but that was really genuine And you know,
(08:16):
Dwayn Kuiper seen an awful lot of press conferences and
done a lot of interviews and he played the game.
So for him to say that that kind of kind
of tells you this isn't just a big personality who
who knows how to charm people their substance there.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
I think there's an interesting quote from Greg in there
about like you could hire a third base coach or
a bench coach, or a pitching coach or somebody that's
been around the game and you know whatever with that,
like it's their time to be a manager. But it
took a lot of for lack of better word, guts
to go out and hire somebody with no experience to
(08:54):
be the manager of the San Francisco Giants. And I
just think the way he was behind it, the way
he worded it too, about he's a winner and he's
been successful before and he's won before, where maybe a
third base coach or somebody that has never man is
doesn't have that same resume of winning. Maybe they're part
of it, but they haven't been driving the ship. They're
(09:15):
not the head person. And Tony's done that before, and
he said that was very attractive to him.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Yeah, yeah, I like that the you know, first of all, ultimately,
and Greg was very clear about this, This was Buster
Posey's decision, you know, but of course ownership does need
to be behind it. And Greg mentioned not once but
twice that the contract. The contract did kind of take
them a little bit by surprise. They were like, wait,
(09:40):
can we even get them? Like this is this guy's
making a lot of money and you know that's and
you know what, I brought along some visual aids so
just to just to you know, tooth the chronicles horn
a little, let's let's give you a little taste of
what it looked like today. That's online, and I think
at some point soon this story so as have Chronicle
(10:02):
dot Com. At some point I think it will be well,
it will be in the paper, but a good chance,
I think in the Sunday Paper, which every sports writer
was you know, it's kind of the the dream is
to have it be in the Sunday Sports section. So anyway,
that's that's kind of what it looks like on our
website right now. You want to run out and check
it out. The whole thing, which is quite long, I
(10:23):
hope will be in the Sunday Paper.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Podcast.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
I know, I know, I am. I'm trying to you know,
I'm going to try to throw in a few little
chronicle things here and there because nice enough to say
that I can be a frequent guest with you, and
which was very kind of them, so so it's super fun.
But yeah, then mentioned twice of the of the contract.
Did kind of make my ears perk up. But you know,
(10:48):
they did what it took to get him, and then
they thought, yeah, maybe he's got a pretty good situation.
He might not leave. That's remember that couple of days
when everybody was saying, what's happening, Why hasn't this happened?
That that's exactly what happening. You know, he was really
weighing a lot of things and ultimately chose the giants.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
I think that speaks to his character, you know. And
I had a little inside information. I won't name names,
but you know when the negotiations were getting down to
the nitty gritty where it was either you're in or
you're not, that there was kind of a somber attitude there,
and I said that I like that. And I think
you and I have talked about this off off the show,
where if he just said peace out, Tennessee, I'm a
(11:28):
big league manager. Thanks for the memories. But the fact
that he had to think about that, and I don't
think it had anything to do with money I had.
I think he just talking to him a little bit
after the press conference and hanging out with him that day.
He loved it there. He loved everything about it. He'd
loved where he lived, working with young kids, recruiting kids,
going into homes, talking to parents, teaching, teaching boys how
(11:52):
to be men and be accountable and to be winning players.
And there's gonna be a lot of aspects at the
major league level that are similar, but there's also going
to be some you're not I mean, these are grown
ass men with like long hair and beards. You know
that that doesn't happen in college, so it's gonna be
a little different than that. But just just seeing the
(12:14):
inside of it that he was a little bit sad
leaving Tennessee that I like that because you see you
see whatever college coaches all the time, Lane Kiffin. We
can name some football coaches that just bounce around and
they're in a new place every time, and you're like, wait, what,
you just left all these kids hanging and left their
families hanging, and now you're at a new school for
more money. I don't think this was that for Tony
(12:35):
and the fact that he was like kind of somber
and sad before he flipped the page now he's San Francisco,
he's a Giants manager. Full go here. But like if
you'd just up and left, I think that would have
been weird.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah. I also, as I asked
Craig a little bit, like to evaluate Buster in his
first year. And again, so this is some of this
stuff I think was termed a little bit for length.
But you know, the big swing that's been kind of
the thing that that we've all I mean, of course
it's the first thing you notice, but the fact that
he's willing to take the big swing but is very
(13:09):
accountable for everything, and he really is take you know,
he's cast in a wide net when in terms of
getting information behind the scenes, I think ownership's really happy
it's Buster Posey of course are happy, but I think
it goes well beyond like this is a franchise icon
for us. This is a guy who I think they
really feel like, if you need a little bit of
a shakeup, this is a guy who's going to get
(13:31):
that done. If he doesn't, he said, I think twice,
if he doesn't, If Buster doesn't like something, he is
going to take action.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
So like that, I hope, I hope he likes our
podcast Buster. I hope you like our podcast. We're gonna
try to get Buster on here. I'll say this season,
I've talked about it on K and BR a lot.
I think his first year in the position he's in
President Baseball Operations, and you and I have talked during
games about this is an a plus. And I know
(13:58):
there was a lot of criticism over the airwaves or
on social media about some of the things that did
or did not happen during the year. And I actually
took calls Firebuster posey on Cambi or I'm like, if
you come on this station and you call in and
you say Firebuster posey, a lot of people listen. You're
telling everybody you know absolutely nothing about baseball. So the
(14:18):
way he handled it, the humbleness, the willing to learn,
the asking questions, did what was your takeaway from the
game today? What do you think about this? And he
just didn't come in and make all these wholesale changes
right away. I don't like this. I don't like that
the manager's fired. This guy's re dfa that he just
sat back, listened, learned in a very humble, accountable manner,
(14:45):
and he knew that, you know, he needed to learn,
but the willingness in his position to be able to
do that. And then okay, season's over. I don't like this,
I don't like that, and I don't like this, and
I'm gonna make some changes. The trades he made for
Devers and signing a Damis and the guys we got
(15:05):
for Tyler Rodgers that proved to be valuable, Drew Gilbert
and some people we haven't even seen yet. So all
in all, yeah, eighty one and eighty one not what
Buster imagined, but it was a foundation year. He laid
the foundation. And foundations aren't sexy. Have you ever walked
into somebody's beautiful home and said, oh my god, I
(15:27):
love your foundation. No, you like your kitchen's beautiful? Oh
my god, look at your pool. Nobody ever says the
foundation is beautiful. Foundations aren't sexy, but they're the most
important part of a home. They're the most important part
of a relationship. They're the most important part if you're
running a pro sports franchise.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Yeah, well, hey, you're down there in that part of
San Francisco where foundations are extra important because a couple
of those condo buildings have gone a little funky and
I'm in Myrtle Heights, where we love a good foundation. Yeah,
I think with Star, the fans that have been unhappy,
the ones that you're getting calls from, the ones that
(16:07):
I've gotten responses from on social media. A lot of
it's hindsight, right, because you look at especially trading Rogers
and Dove. All the Giants suddenly get hot after that,
and everybody was like, why do you tried trade two
of the You know, they were really in the doldrums
when he traded those guys. Those were the right try.
Devors was the right move at the time. Didn't work
(16:28):
sometimes that happens. Trading those two relievers at that time
was the right move, and he caught a haul for
both those guys. But I mean especially Tyler Rogers, who
could very well be back this offseason. So anyway, what
what else is it going on in Giants news? Uh? Well,
a little decision right this week.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
I was heartbroken to see that forever Giant Tom Murphy
was let go. Yeah, it was walked past twice in
spring training. I saw him have a pass ball in
Philadelphia against Peace with Trey Turner on second and it
was a strike and he missed it. And he jogged
back to the backstop. But I'm on the air and
I can't talk because Joe Ritzo is talking. I just
(17:13):
shook the table. Sorry, I'm on the Italian. I talked
with my hands. I'm on the air, and I'm like,
I wanted to scream, get the ball, He's gonna score.
What are you doing? And then Trey Turner scored, and
then he got hurt and we never saw Tom Murphy again.
So thirteen games from the Giants could be unhappy with
his time in San Francisco because that's a guy we
(17:35):
joke about Forever Giant all the time. That's one that
I mean, I don't know Tom Murphy, probably a nice
guy based on being around the team the last three years.
I never saw the guy, So I could see why
his time in San Francisco was an unhappy for him
because he never played.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Yeah, thirteen games in two years at the time of
the signing. I mean, and I think this right up
there with some of the biggest mistakes far Hanziety's made
when he was the top baseball executive with the team.
It didn't make sense because Joey bart had been, you know,
really good soldier, and it was clear that he was
making some improvements. Now I can see a team saying, we,
(18:14):
you know, maybe we don't want a second year catcher
with another with a backup who's you know, only a
year or two older, doesn't have much experience. I can
see that. But in which case, maybe don't sign a
guy to a two year deal, go out and find
another veteran who could be your backup if Bart. But
Bart was out of options and he'd worked his rear off.
(18:35):
Was really popular in the clubhouse and in the in
the organization, with all his coaches did. Yeah, he was
the guy who had to come up and play during
the pandemic season when Buster stepped back and he wasn't ready.
That didn't help him, you know, all sorts of things.
But he had a great attitude, never pointed the finger
at the organization, never blamed anyone but himself, and always
(18:58):
went and did everything they aim to work on. So
and Murphy just never seemed like a good fit. He
just didn't. And then when he left, he was pretty unhappy.
He'd had some injuries. He didn't like some of the
ways some of the injuries had been handled. So I
think he's probably going to have some grievances. We'll see
those where those goes, although we often don't find out
(19:19):
the upshot on some of those things. But it was
just sort of an unfortunate situation. And now that's over. So, yeah,
that was a weird one. Definitely a weird one.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Yeah. I mean, I'm always on the player's side of things.
I don't know what happened behind the scenes. I know
the Giants have probably the best medical staff in baseball,
and I'm just saying that they've helped me and my
family for years since I was a Giant. That hasn't stopped.
I have more than tons of confidence in that. So
I read that article and I was just like, that
just sounds like sour grapes. But maybe I don't know
(19:52):
who knows. I just don't know Tom Murphy in the
times that I saw him play. I just he wasn't
a good fit. Just like you said, I got to
learn how to be more politically correct, all right, we
got to change. This is the topic of the day
that I couldn't wait to get to it. We're talking
about the contemporary baseball era player ballot. It's players who've
made the greatest contributions of the game since nineteen eighty.
(20:14):
So Barry Bonds, eight guys and they're all studs. I mean,
come on, and this is where I have trouble, Susan
like bench player talking about who should be in the
Hall of Fame, like whatever. Bonds, Kent, Roger Clemens, Carlos Stilgatto,
Don maddening Dale, Murphy, Gary Sheffield, Fernando Velenzuela. So this
is a Giants podcast, and naturally we're going to go
to Bonds and Kent. I'll just I'll let you start,
(20:37):
and I said this last podcast, and I'll get more
in depth after you kind of throw some things out there.
I did the numbers on Barry. It's ridiculous. Roger Clemens
numbers are ridiculous. It's not the Hall of Fame until
Barry Bonds gets in the Hall of Fame. And I know,
I got to stop hitting the tablet, shaking the screen.
I know, I know that this is important to them,
and I think it's very important to the Giants fans.
(20:58):
It's very important to me. He's the greatest player I
ever played with against, was around on a daily basis.
We're still friends to this day, and I see him
at the ballpark all the time, and I don't know
if it's killing him, but I do know that he cares,
and it would be cool because when you talk about history,
like we have to chronicle everything, so you have numbers
(21:21):
to back it up. I have some numbers here. But
your thoughts on Bonds and Kent getting into.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
The Hall of Fame, well, you know this is sometimes little.
This is a tricky topic for me because I'm actually
on the ballot committee for the contemporary well for all
the eras, so I helped formulate this eight person ballot.
We are not at liberty to discuss the inner workings
of the ballot committee. I was also on the era's
(21:46):
committee when Bonds and Clements did not get in. I
was on the actual committee that decided things during the
winter meetings. We're same thing. Definitely not allowed to talk
about the inner workings there. What I can say and
often do is my BBWAA vote for the Hall of
Fame is a matter of record. I am one of
(22:06):
the many many writers. Most of us do make those public,
and I have voted for both Bonds and Kent. I
switched from not voting for the steroid guys to at
some point realizing everyone from that era was in, including
some players who had been kind of connected to possible
(22:27):
steroid use except for Bonds and Clements, and I thought,
this is just this is ludicrousy. Either accept the era
for what it was or you don't. And if you're
going to put in the commissioner, many of the top managers,
people who knew what was going on beyond behind the scenes,
and players who I had covered, and I think there
were pretty clear instances that where you could say, this
(22:50):
is a guy who fits that profile who are already in.
So I don't to me, this is a no brainer.
But again I brought along some a little bit of
show and tell. Here similarity scores for Barry Bonds. I
don't know how many of you might look at Baseball Reference,
but it's pretty much the best when it comes to
just finding sheer numbers and then also interesting tidbits. The
(23:13):
similarity scores is when you know, you look in a
random player will just match up with strange like the
strangest people, which is kind of fun. You look at
Bonds's similarity scores here and the number one comparison for
Barry Bonds is Willie Mays. Number two is Hank Aaron
you mean number three? Is this pabooth? Come on this dude,
(23:35):
there is Why are we even having this conversation. This
is a guy who has to be in the Hall
of Fame. So I just I'm just again. I can't
really talk too much about how we vote, because if
I vote again on an eras committee, I just can
point to my BBWA past voting record. But I do
(23:58):
think that we need to make sure that the eras
are really truly represented. The Hall of Fame can handle
plaques the way they would like if they want to
mention any of the things. There is a steroid exhibit
in the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Bunch of needles in the case, some vials and some syringes.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
I think there's some pretty some pretty start headlines.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
The Mitchell Brothers Team Pitcher, the Mitchell Report Team Pitcher,
Mitchell Brothers is another place in San Francisco, different podcasts.
The Mitchell Report Team is in there too. Uh did
you do me and the comps? Because I think Buddy
beyond Kalana would probably.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Come up, is my check out your comps? Yeah, at
some point I think we I think that you you
would probably get a real kick out of that. But
I didn't know. I have not ever FP looked up
your commps.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Somebody that mixes gatorade.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
It just says, let me know when you're on the
contemporary eras ballot.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
The other I got various numbers here. I wrote him
down left yesterday, and this is just insane. Seven time MVP.
We know this twenty two year career career war of
one sixty two point eight, which is insane. That's that's
a record. Nobody's ever been higher than that. Two nine
hundred and thirty five hits, which I did not know
that he was that close to three thousand hits. Usually
would think of Barry. You think a seven to sixty two, right,
(25:21):
it's just one number. Obviously, the home runs nineteen hundred
and ninety six RBI, so just shy at two thousand,
six hundred one doubles, seventy seven triples, two thousand, five
hundred and fifty eight walks, unbelievable, and then seventy three
home runs in two thousand and one. Two thousand and
four is the year for me, that's just insane. He
(25:42):
had three hundred and seventy three at bats all year
because he walked two hundred and thirty two times, which
is a record. He had one hundred and thirty five
hits in those three seventy three at bats and he
get three sixty two, so forty one homers. But like
when you talk about how he change the game and
showy Tani shoei Otani was just getting that in the
(26:03):
World Series where they're give him that treatment. I just
don't think it's a complete It's an incomplete institution unless
Barry Bonds is in the Hall of Fame, and I.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Think he's not. There's only one reason, and the Hall
kind of has to come to terms with it. And
a lot of people said, once he gets on to
the committee's which what you used to be called the
Veterans committee, they'll put him in, like the fellow players
will recognize. Well, you know, I think it was listed
as less than four votes. That's sixteen member committee, about
(26:36):
half maybe a little more. Sometimes players, I perhaps that's
not the way either. It's going to be really interesting
to watch. And now there's the new rules where I
think you can be on twice and then you come off.
So if you if you don't if you fail to
get enough votes, so it's possible this is starting now,
(26:58):
but it's possible another turner two through the thing and
he might be done with being considered, which I this
is just if so, the Hall has made its own
decision of what it wants and doesn't want, and if
he doesn't get in, I think that's that's we're looking at.
That's what the Hall is decided. You know, this is
a They've had numerous and we'll have numerous shots to
(27:22):
put these guys in bonds and clements, and if they don't,
you know, that's changing the eligibility and the length of eligibility.
I think tells you something.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Kent Ken's real quick quickly. I played in that era. Yeah,
I know more than any Mitchell report says. I was
in the clubhouses, I was on the planes. I saw
what was going on. Until you can tell me how
many home runs Erry hit off of guys on steroids too,
then you don't have an argument for Barry Bonds not
(27:56):
making the Hall of Fame. So just say, out of
seven sixty two, let's throw three, three hundred and fifty
eight of his home runs were off guys on steroids.
Because pictures didn't look the part. Yeah, pictures didn't go
get jacked, like Mark maguire and like Sammy Sosa and
other guys. Pictures just threw the baseball. And by throwing
the baseball or long toss and you're building the muscles
(28:17):
up to throw baseball faster. So guys would leave spring
training throwing ninety one and come back next year throwing
ninety eight. And that was everywhere. So a picture you
could get away with it because you're not like jacked
and going up to the plate and you just look
maybe I don't know, ten pounds heavier, not noticeable. So
until you can tell me all that, and I'll just
(28:38):
say this, it was way more rampant, rampant what was
on the mitell reboard like, there was tons of guys
doing it.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
One of the guys that got popped in the middle
of it, you'll remember, was Paul Byrd, who was not
a particularly memorable picture with at that point the Indians
not imposing. And I thought, if Paul Bird is among
the gus, and there's a good chance there's a lot
of guys that we're not considering. But yeah, I mean
it's to me this is an era that is grossly
(29:09):
underrepresented in the Hall of Fame and that's not what
the Hall of Fame is for. And here's Jeff Kent.
I'm going to pop up some of his numbers. Jeff
Kent is a good example of this. Now, he's not
a slam dunk when it comes to numbers. I and
many other writers look at the Hall of Fame statistics
again on Baseball Reference dot com, which are interesting. There
(29:30):
are a couple of different formulations about what constitutes a
Hall of Famer or a likely Hall of Famer.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
I've had great ink noodles once at a restaurant. What
does that mean?
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Yeah, I think I have too. Actually I'm from Monterey,
so we got a lot of ink inky new.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
Partner.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
So these these numbers are on the left side are
Kent's numbers career, and that what the average Hall of
Famer has in these sort of various formulations. And so
you you can see that from some of these he's
either very close to a Hall of Famer, he is
a Hall of Famer, or you know, maybe you know
just borderline south of being a Hall of Famer. He's
(30:10):
always been a very interesting candidate for these reasons. But
I think second base is a position that is also underrepresented.
I think the era is underrepresented. I certainly hope that
Jeff Kent is a guy who the Contemporary Eras Committee
look out really closely. I mean again, I'm on the
(30:32):
ballot committee, so all of the names on this ballot
are ones that the committee as a whole thought, these
are people that need to be considered. But I firmly think,
and I've thought, that other second basemen need more consideration,
not necessarily on this ballot, but I've been big on
Bobby Gritch, for example, for a long time. He was
(30:52):
the best second baseman all around kind of of his era,
and he's not in. You know, Alan trammels In and
Luke Lou Whitaker isn't. My second base is really sort
of maligned. I don't get it, but I would love
to see a few more of these guys get in.
(31:13):
And I really do hope Kent gets a look because
the Hall of Fame, it's the Hall of Fame represent
the eras, represent the positions, don't. We don't just need
a bunch of slug in first basemen and right fielders
and starting pitchers.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
I'm a firm believer that you either are you aren't.
It's either one or a zero, And I have trouble
wrapping my head around people that have gotten in later
because we invent statistics that are that show that that
we didn't have ten years ago, that show that they
could be might be, should be. Thank you borderline guys.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
For you, where do you stand on Kent?
Speaker 1 (31:45):
Then it's either a F yes or f Now it's
a one or a zero for me, And it's it's
about the eye test. It's about you know, you see that,
you see guys you play against, you see guys you're
in the dugout with. You're like, that's all of famer.
And I don't know that I thought about that With Jeff.
I just knew he was a damn good ballplayer and he.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
Was a good a very very good guy.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
No, he's better than very good. Like he would tell
me things on the bench. I'd be like, you know,
I filed that slider off and I was right on it,
so I knew they were going to throw me a
fastball the next pitch. And he'd be like, no, stay
on the slider because that's what they think you're thinking.
He goes, never get off the pitch that you fill
straight back, and I go my whole career, and I
got like fifteen hits that year by doing that. So
(32:30):
he was a good teammate. He was fun to be around.
I would say this, and this is probably I don't
want to go viral, but like, if I had game
seven bases loaded, one person to drive in a run
of the two we're talking about, I think I would
want Jeff up because he was he would He just
(32:51):
had a great approach with runners in scoring position where he.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
Would bury bonds. That's what you're saying.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Yeah, I mean Barry probably had a Grand Slam, but
they probably both drive the runs in. But like Jeff
was so good with like as far as like taking
something out of a swing a lot like Buster posey,
like two for himself, one for the ball club, go
the other way. Barry's gonna hate me for this, but like,
if you need, if you needed a clutch run driven in,
Jeff was your guy.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
And you think he's all a fam with that. I
think that's what you're saying anyway. So well, neither of
us is on this current committee, so I guess it's.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
To be continued.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
We will find this out. It's during the winter meeting.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
Yours to figure it out. Either are you aren't.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
Yeah, well, it's gonna be an interesting It's gonna be
an interesting day when these results are announced at the winner.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
He doesn't hate me for saying that, but they both
would have got the runs in. But like if it's
like it's like everybody says they want a Kurt reid
Er to pitch Game seven, like that was their guy.
Like there's just a certain thing about JK, Like he
just he just stuck his nose in there, not the
Barry wouldn't. I'm just saying, like, if you need, if
you need to Sackfly, he's your guy, you need a
(34:06):
two strike base hit to write, he's your guy. You
need my home run.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
You're pretty sure you said he's better than Barry Bonds.
I'm pretty sure that's what you said.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
Garry Bond's the greatest player to ever walk the face
of the Earth. Period.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
Well, on that note, certainly stay tuned that that's going
to be an exciting day at the Winter Meetings, which
is I think the Winter Meetings open the seventh of December,
Pearl Harbor Day. So yeah, sometime that week.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
Not touching that one, Susan, we got number show number
two in the books. It was great to see you.
I'm gonna tease Tony next week. I asked for Tony Vitello,
so hopefully we get him, but if we don't, it'll
just be some great guests and on the greatest giants
podcast in the history of the world, splash Hit. No
greatest show in the history of the world. Splash Hit
(34:57):
Territory splash Hit. Subscribe to splash Hit on YouTube wherever
you get your podcasts. We are part of the Final
Territory Network. Susan Seluster, thank you for being a special
contributor today and I will see you next week.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
Fantastic Thanks Epete Dia
All right, it's episode number two. Is Splash Hit our
new show here on follow Territory Network. Subscribe to Splash
Hit Territory on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts.
Susan Slusser, frequent contributor, My friend is back for show
number two. Susan, what's going on?
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Not a lot glad to be here again. For people
that didn't listen to the first show, first of all,
go back and listen to it. Why didn't you? Second?
Explaining very quickly, I spend like the first month of
the off season in London, so that's where I am
right now. If things look a little dark. It's a
lot later here than you are in beautiful California, though
(00:42):
it sounds a little stormy today.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
A little stormy, and I have to get up early
to do this because we have like an eight hour
time difference, so I have bags under my eyes. It's
a little dark where you're at right now, but we'll
figure it out and get it done. It was fun
to do in the first show, and we got a
lot of great responds on Twitter. I think people were
excited that the Giants have a new show on the
File Territory Network. So a lot of clicks, a lot
(01:05):
of views. We're gonna have a lot of big guests.
We're just trying to hit the ground running. You and
I get a rhythm together, and then we're going after
the big fish. We're gonna have big guests on here,
and it's gonna be fun to talk to some of
the bigger people in Giants Land.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Yeah, and that you know, I hope that might be
when I the days where my schedule does not permit me,
So you might have some amazing people. But I hope
that maybe we can save some of the if we
if you land a super big fish, I hope maybe
I can sneak into the studio on one of those.
So we'll see what we got coming up first here.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Well, we just run down the show real quick. Bruce
Bochie's back in the fold. You had a great article
with Greg Johnson, a little Q and A. So there's
a lot of Giants news for our second show, but
I think the number one is Boach's back man. And
when you talk about a manager that doesn't have a
lot of or zero professional experience, I mean, what a
resource to have Dusty Baker and Bruce Bochie around. Tony
(02:00):
Vitello Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
I was so delighted when Greg Johnson mentioned just sort
of in passing the other days, like, oh wait, it
hasn't been announced yet, but you know, things are kind
of progressing here with Bruce Bochi and it makes so
much sense, not just for Tony Vitello, but oh my gosh,
what a resource. Four time World Series Champion manager? Are
you kidding to bounce things off along with Dusty Baker,
(02:25):
but also for Buster. I mean, Bochi was his manager
almost his entire career, so he you know, he's a
guy he can take anbjective opinion coming from another organization,
the Rangers, and come in kind of with fresh eyes
and really just be a resource for everybody, but especially
right now the two most important people in the organization
(02:48):
in Buster Posey and Tony Vitello. So I mean, there's,
of course there's no downside to having Bruce Bochi around,
and for the media, we love it. Let's get Boacha
on sometime.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Wicked Boatcha and Tony Vtello's in the works as we speak,
so the word is out that we're trying to get
him on this podcast. But Susan, when you talk about
having people around the organization, as resources. I've been with
organizations where they just pay a guy to stand in
the corner and maybe talk to a few reporters and
shake hands with some fans, and you keep like legends around.
(03:18):
I remember my time with the Yankees. They participated in
spring training. It was a lot like the Giants this year.
Ron Guidry was throwing me batting practice, and then I
went to the cage and Don Maddenley's doing flips to me,
and all I can think of as Don thinks my
swing sucks. He must be laughing at me right now,
because he's one of the best hitters ever. We'll get
to Doc Matting in a little bit when we get
to the Hall of Fame discussion. But to have these
(03:40):
guys around and then to use them not just figureheads
in a wax museum of great giants managers of the past,
but we're talking about Hall of Fame managers. Dusty Baker's
a Hall of Fame manager. Obviously, Bruce Bochi's a Hall
of Fame manager. We could do a whole show on
how I think Felipe Alou is a Hall of Fame
manager too. So to organizations head back to back to back,
(04:01):
Hall of fame managers, but to have those guys around
for Tony Bytello and end game, you're on your own, baby,
the training wheels are off. You got to make the
decisions real time. But like maybe after the game to
open a bottle of wine in his office or get
there early and say, you know, what would you have
done differently last night? And all of a sudden, you
know that experience helps. And I think, I don't know
(04:24):
if you have similar experiences as being a writer starting
out and having mentors, but you know I have some
as a player and as a broadcaster where if I
didn't have those people, I wouldn't be here today.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Yeah, no doubt about it. I think it's really important
to have just have somebody who's been through it before.
But even more so in a job like manager, there
are very specific situations that crop up, and sometimes ones
nobody's seen before. You're rarely going to have a situation
that Bruce Bochi has not run into at one port
or another.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
It's great, it's great. It'll just be great to have
boats around. From a selfish standpoint, I've missed him when
I came back to San Francisco. We'd sit together in
the games, probably right by you. And I got to
know Boch a lot better than I did when he
was the manager and I was just doing the pre
and post game. So excited to have him back. I'm
also excited about your interview with Greg Johnson, Giant's owner,
(05:16):
and it was in the chronicle, and you talked about
a number of things, and the article is getting a
little bit of play too. Fans are kind of dissecting
what he said to you. And anytime he talks about
things and says anything about payroll or anything about Dodgers,
it's obviously in the news. But you talked about him
with Tony Vitello, the hiring, the off season needs. So
(05:40):
maybe just break that down a little bit. How'd that
conversation go? Was it? Was it a friendly conversation or
was it all business?
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Like?
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Take us behind the scenes a little bit. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Greg is always good to deal with. You know, we
try to talk at least once a year, and I
like doing it in a Q and A format, so
it's really transparent. You know what we talked about, how
he sort of approached his answers, you know what we
delved into. We talked for so long. I actually had
to cut quite a bit of it for space, and
then I wound up doing something I almost never do
(06:09):
and reordered it to start off with the bochie stuff
because that was such an interesting bit and very exciting
bit of news. But some of the highlights I'll tell
you are really that Bruce that Greg Johnson is happy
to go over the threshold, the tax threshold, so that
(06:32):
one eighty five million payroll right now that could go up.
He sees them going after at least one or two
veteran starters, but he was pretty clear that would be
probably somebody on a shorter term deal. So that yeah, yeah,
sure's are makes the most obvious choice. You know, I
(06:54):
really like Verlander, but you're not going to get both
of them on the same team. This is not a
retread of the Tigers, I don't think, But yeah, were
they I don't I think that that's I think that's
probably going to get one or the other. But sureser
(07:14):
would be fun. You know, you cover one, have one
Hall of Famer to follow and then another one in
the next year. That would be who wouldn't love that?
So that would be super fun. But he had really
positive things to say about Tony Vitella, of course, but
he said kind of like all of us. When Buster
(07:34):
Posey first brought up the name, he was a little
sort of you know, he had to google him, and
then he immediately called a bunch of people he knew
who'd gone to Tennessee to to gauge their reaction. Of course,
you talked to somebody from Tennessee and the reactions are
just off the charts positive. So he thought, okay, well
this is interesting. And then as things started progressing, and
then he talked to Tony Vitello, I think all you
(07:56):
have to do is he's talked to Tony Vitello and
get like a really genuine sense of him. And he thought,
you know, this guy isn't just you know, it's not
smoke and mirrors. And he mentioned that Dwayne Kuiper had
said to him after the press conference. I thought this
was this guy might be just like kind of a
really good bser, but that was really genuine And you know,
(08:16):
Dwayn Kuiper seen an awful lot of press conferences and
done a lot of interviews and he played the game.
So for him to say that that kind of kind
of tells you this isn't just a big personality who
who knows how to charm people their substance there.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
I think there's an interesting quote from Greg in there
about like you could hire a third base coach or
a bench coach, or a pitching coach or somebody that's
been around the game and you know whatever with that,
like it's their time to be a manager. But it
took a lot of for lack of better word, guts
to go out and hire somebody with no experience to
(08:54):
be the manager of the San Francisco Giants. And I
just think the way he was behind it, the way
he worded it too, about he's a winner and he's
been successful before and he's won before, where maybe a
third base coach or somebody that has never man is
doesn't have that same resume of winning. Maybe they're part
of it, but they haven't been driving the ship. They're
(09:15):
not the head person. And Tony's done that before, and
he said that was very attractive to him.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Yeah, yeah, I like that the you know, first of all, ultimately,
and Greg was very clear about this, This was Buster
Posey's decision, you know, but of course ownership does need
to be behind it. And Greg mentioned not once but
twice that the contract. The contract did kind of take
them a little bit by surprise. They were like, wait,
(09:40):
can we even get them? Like this is this guy's
making a lot of money and you know that's and
you know what, I brought along some visual aids so
just to just to you know, tooth the chronicles horn
a little, let's let's give you a little taste of
what it looked like today. That's online, and I think
at some point soon this story so as have Chronicle
(10:02):
dot Com. At some point I think it will be well,
it will be in the paper, but a good chance,
I think in the Sunday Paper, which every sports writer
was you know, it's kind of the the dream is
to have it be in the Sunday Sports section. So anyway,
that's that's kind of what it looks like on our
website right now. You want to run out and check
it out. The whole thing, which is quite long, I
(10:23):
hope will be in the Sunday Paper.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Podcast.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
I know, I know, I am. I'm trying to you know,
I'm going to try to throw in a few little
chronicle things here and there because nice enough to say
that I can be a frequent guest with you, and
which was very kind of them, so so it's super fun.
But yeah, then mentioned twice of the of the contract.
Did kind of make my ears perk up. But you know,
(10:48):
they did what it took to get him, and then
they thought, yeah, maybe he's got a pretty good situation.
He might not leave. That's remember that couple of days
when everybody was saying, what's happening, Why hasn't this happened?
That that's exactly what happening. You know, he was really
weighing a lot of things and ultimately chose the giants.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
I think that speaks to his character, you know. And
I had a little inside information. I won't name names,
but you know when the negotiations were getting down to
the nitty gritty where it was either you're in or
you're not, that there was kind of a somber attitude there,
and I said that I like that. And I think
you and I have talked about this off off the show,
where if he just said peace out, Tennessee, I'm a
(11:28):
big league manager. Thanks for the memories. But the fact
that he had to think about that, and I don't
think it had anything to do with money I had.
I think he just talking to him a little bit
after the press conference and hanging out with him that day.
He loved it there. He loved everything about it. He'd
loved where he lived, working with young kids, recruiting kids,
going into homes, talking to parents, teaching, teaching boys how
(11:52):
to be men and be accountable and to be winning players.
And there's gonna be a lot of aspects at the
major league level that are similar, but there's also going
to be some you're not I mean, these are grown
ass men with like long hair and beards. You know
that that doesn't happen in college, so it's gonna be
a little different than that. But just just seeing the
(12:14):
inside of it that he was a little bit sad
leaving Tennessee that I like that because you see you
see whatever college coaches all the time, Lane Kiffin. We
can name some football coaches that just bounce around and
they're in a new place every time, and you're like, wait, what,
you just left all these kids hanging and left their
families hanging, and now you're at a new school for
more money. I don't think this was that for Tony
(12:35):
and the fact that he was like kind of somber
and sad before he flipped the page now he's San Francisco,
he's a Giants manager. Full go here. But like if
you'd just up and left, I think that would have
been weird.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah. I also, as I asked
Craig a little bit, like to evaluate Buster in his
first year. And again, so this is some of this
stuff I think was termed a little bit for length.
But you know, the big swing that's been kind of
the thing that that we've all I mean, of course
it's the first thing you notice, but the fact that
he's willing to take the big swing but is very
(13:09):
accountable for everything, and he really is take you know,
he's cast in a wide net when in terms of
getting information behind the scenes, I think ownership's really happy
it's Buster Posey of course are happy, but I think
it goes well beyond like this is a franchise icon
for us. This is a guy who I think they
really feel like, if you need a little bit of
a shakeup, this is a guy who's going to get
(13:31):
that done. If he doesn't, he said, I think twice,
if he doesn't, If Buster doesn't like something, he is
going to take action.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
So like that, I hope, I hope he likes our
podcast Buster. I hope you like our podcast. We're gonna
try to get Buster on here. I'll say this season,
I've talked about it on K and BR a lot.
I think his first year in the position he's in
President Baseball Operations, and you and I have talked during
games about this is an a plus. And I know
(13:58):
there was a lot of criticism over the airwaves or
on social media about some of the things that did
or did not happen during the year. And I actually
took calls Firebuster posey on Cambi or I'm like, if
you come on this station and you call in and
you say Firebuster posey, a lot of people listen. You're
telling everybody you know absolutely nothing about baseball. So the
(14:18):
way he handled it, the humbleness, the willing to learn,
the asking questions, did what was your takeaway from the
game today? What do you think about this? And he
just didn't come in and make all these wholesale changes
right away. I don't like this. I don't like that
the manager's fired. This guy's re dfa that he just
sat back, listened, learned in a very humble, accountable manner,
(14:45):
and he knew that, you know, he needed to learn,
but the willingness in his position to be able to
do that. And then okay, season's over. I don't like this,
I don't like that, and I don't like this, and
I'm gonna make some changes. The trades he made for
Devers and signing a Damis and the guys we got
(15:05):
for Tyler Rodgers that proved to be valuable, Drew Gilbert
and some people we haven't even seen yet. So all
in all, yeah, eighty one and eighty one not what
Buster imagined, but it was a foundation year. He laid
the foundation. And foundations aren't sexy. Have you ever walked
into somebody's beautiful home and said, oh my god, I
(15:27):
love your foundation. No, you like your kitchen's beautiful? Oh
my god, look at your pool. Nobody ever says the
foundation is beautiful. Foundations aren't sexy, but they're the most
important part of a home. They're the most important part
of a relationship. They're the most important part if you're
running a pro sports franchise.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Yeah, well, hey, you're down there in that part of
San Francisco where foundations are extra important because a couple
of those condo buildings have gone a little funky and
I'm in Myrtle Heights, where we love a good foundation. Yeah,
I think with Star, the fans that have been unhappy,
the ones that you're getting calls from, the ones that
(16:07):
I've gotten responses from on social media. A lot of
it's hindsight, right, because you look at especially trading Rogers
and Dove. All the Giants suddenly get hot after that,
and everybody was like, why do you tried trade two
of the You know, they were really in the doldrums
when he traded those guys. Those were the right try.
Devors was the right move at the time. Didn't work
(16:28):
sometimes that happens. Trading those two relievers at that time
was the right move, and he caught a haul for
both those guys. But I mean especially Tyler Rogers, who
could very well be back this offseason. So anyway, what
what else is it going on in Giants news? Uh? Well,
a little decision right this week.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
I was heartbroken to see that forever Giant Tom Murphy
was let go. Yeah, it was walked past twice in
spring training. I saw him have a pass ball in
Philadelphia against Peace with Trey Turner on second and it
was a strike and he missed it. And he jogged
back to the backstop. But I'm on the air and
I can't talk because Joe Ritzo is talking. I just
(17:13):
shook the table. Sorry, I'm on the Italian. I talked
with my hands. I'm on the air, and I'm like,
I wanted to scream, get the ball, He's gonna score.
What are you doing? And then Trey Turner scored, and
then he got hurt and we never saw Tom Murphy again.
So thirteen games from the Giants could be unhappy with
his time in San Francisco because that's a guy we
(17:35):
joke about Forever Giant all the time. That's one that
I mean, I don't know Tom Murphy, probably a nice
guy based on being around the team the last three years.
I never saw the guy, So I could see why
his time in San Francisco was an unhappy for him
because he never played.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Yeah, thirteen games in two years at the time of
the signing. I mean, and I think this right up
there with some of the biggest mistakes far Hanziety's made
when he was the top baseball executive with the team.
It didn't make sense because Joey bart had been, you know,
really good soldier, and it was clear that he was
making some improvements. Now I can see a team saying, we,
(18:14):
you know, maybe we don't want a second year catcher
with another with a backup who's you know, only a
year or two older, doesn't have much experience. I can
see that. But in which case, maybe don't sign a
guy to a two year deal, go out and find
another veteran who could be your backup if Bart. But
Bart was out of options and he'd worked his rear off.
(18:35):
Was really popular in the clubhouse and in the in
the organization, with all his coaches did. Yeah, he was
the guy who had to come up and play during
the pandemic season when Buster stepped back and he wasn't ready.
That didn't help him, you know, all sorts of things.
But he had a great attitude, never pointed the finger
at the organization, never blamed anyone but himself, and always
(18:58):
went and did everything they aim to work on. So
and Murphy just never seemed like a good fit. He
just didn't. And then when he left, he was pretty unhappy.
He'd had some injuries. He didn't like some of the
ways some of the injuries had been handled. So I
think he's probably going to have some grievances. We'll see
those where those goes, although we often don't find out
(19:19):
the upshot on some of those things. But it was
just sort of an unfortunate situation. And now that's over. So, yeah,
that was a weird one. Definitely a weird one.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Yeah. I mean, I'm always on the player's side of things.
I don't know what happened behind the scenes. I know
the Giants have probably the best medical staff in baseball,
and I'm just saying that they've helped me and my
family for years since I was a Giant. That hasn't stopped.
I have more than tons of confidence in that. So
I read that article and I was just like, that
just sounds like sour grapes. But maybe I don't know
(19:52):
who knows. I just don't know Tom Murphy in the
times that I saw him play. I just he wasn't
a good fit. Just like you said, I got to
learn how to be more politically correct, all right, we
got to change. This is the topic of the day
that I couldn't wait to get to it. We're talking
about the contemporary baseball era player ballot. It's players who've
made the greatest contributions of the game since nineteen eighty.
(20:14):
So Barry Bonds, eight guys and they're all studs. I mean,
come on, and this is where I have trouble, Susan
like bench player talking about who should be in the
Hall of Fame, like whatever. Bonds, Kent, Roger Clemens, Carlos Stilgatto,
Don maddening Dale, Murphy, Gary Sheffield, Fernando Velenzuela. So this
is a Giants podcast, and naturally we're going to go
to Bonds and Kent. I'll just I'll let you start,
(20:37):
and I said this last podcast, and I'll get more
in depth after you kind of throw some things out there.
I did the numbers on Barry. It's ridiculous. Roger Clemens
numbers are ridiculous. It's not the Hall of Fame until
Barry Bonds gets in the Hall of Fame. And I know,
I got to stop hitting the tablet, shaking the screen.
I know, I know that this is important to them,
and I think it's very important to the Giants fans.
(20:58):
It's very important to me. He's the greatest player I
ever played with against, was around on a daily basis.
We're still friends to this day, and I see him
at the ballpark all the time, and I don't know
if it's killing him, but I do know that he cares,
and it would be cool because when you talk about history,
like we have to chronicle everything, so you have numbers
(21:21):
to back it up. I have some numbers here. But
your thoughts on Bonds and Kent getting into.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
The Hall of Fame, well, you know this is sometimes little.
This is a tricky topic for me because I'm actually
on the ballot committee for the contemporary well for all
the eras, so I helped formulate this eight person ballot.
We are not at liberty to discuss the inner workings
of the ballot committee. I was also on the era's
(21:46):
committee when Bonds and Clements did not get in. I
was on the actual committee that decided things during the
winter meetings. We're same thing. Definitely not allowed to talk
about the inner workings there. What I can say and
often do is my BBWAA vote for the Hall of
Fame is a matter of record. I am one of
(22:06):
the many many writers. Most of us do make those public,
and I have voted for both Bonds and Kent. I
switched from not voting for the steroid guys to at
some point realizing everyone from that era was in, including
some players who had been kind of connected to possible
(22:27):
steroid use except for Bonds and Clements, and I thought,
this is just this is ludicrousy. Either accept the era
for what it was or you don't. And if you're
going to put in the commissioner, many of the top managers,
people who knew what was going on beyond behind the scenes,
and players who I had covered, and I think there
were pretty clear instances that where you could say, this
(22:50):
is a guy who fits that profile who are already in.
So I don't to me, this is a no brainer.
But again I brought along some a little bit of
show and tell. Here similarity scores for Barry Bonds. I
don't know how many of you might look at Baseball Reference,
but it's pretty much the best when it comes to
just finding sheer numbers and then also interesting tidbits. The
(23:13):
similarity scores is when you know, you look in a
random player will just match up with strange like the
strangest people, which is kind of fun. You look at
Bonds's similarity scores here and the number one comparison for
Barry Bonds is Willie Mays. Number two is Hank Aaron
you mean number three? Is this pabooth? Come on this dude,
(23:35):
there is Why are we even having this conversation. This
is a guy who has to be in the Hall
of Fame. So I just I'm just again. I can't
really talk too much about how we vote, because if
I vote again on an eras committee, I just can
point to my BBWA past voting record. But I do
(23:58):
think that we need to make sure that the eras
are really truly represented. The Hall of Fame can handle
plaques the way they would like if they want to
mention any of the things. There is a steroid exhibit
in the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Bunch of needles in the case, some vials and some syringes.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
I think there's some pretty some pretty start headlines.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
The Mitchell Brothers Team Pitcher, the Mitchell Report Team Pitcher,
Mitchell Brothers is another place in San Francisco, different podcasts.
The Mitchell Report Team is in there too. Uh did
you do me and the comps? Because I think Buddy
beyond Kalana would probably.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Come up, is my check out your comps? Yeah, at
some point I think we I think that you you
would probably get a real kick out of that. But
I didn't know. I have not ever FP looked up
your commps.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Somebody that mixes gatorade.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
It just says, let me know when you're on the
contemporary eras ballot.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
The other I got various numbers here. I wrote him
down left yesterday, and this is just insane. Seven time MVP.
We know this twenty two year career career war of
one sixty two point eight, which is insane. That's that's
a record. Nobody's ever been higher than that. Two nine
hundred and thirty five hits, which I did not know
that he was that close to three thousand hits. Usually
would think of Barry. You think a seven to sixty two, right,
(25:21):
it's just one number. Obviously, the home runs nineteen hundred
and ninety six RBI, so just shy at two thousand,
six hundred one doubles, seventy seven triples, two thousand, five
hundred and fifty eight walks, unbelievable, and then seventy three
home runs in two thousand and one. Two thousand and
four is the year for me, that's just insane. He
(25:42):
had three hundred and seventy three at bats all year
because he walked two hundred and thirty two times, which
is a record. He had one hundred and thirty five
hits in those three seventy three at bats and he
get three sixty two, so forty one homers. But like
when you talk about how he change the game and
showy Tani shoei Otani was just getting that in the
(26:03):
World Series where they're give him that treatment. I just
don't think it's a complete It's an incomplete institution unless
Barry Bonds is in the Hall of Fame, and I.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Think he's not. There's only one reason, and the Hall
kind of has to come to terms with it. And
a lot of people said, once he gets on to
the committee's which what you used to be called the
Veterans committee, they'll put him in, like the fellow players
will recognize. Well, you know, I think it was listed
as less than four votes. That's sixteen member committee, about
(26:36):
half maybe a little more. Sometimes players, I perhaps that's
not the way either. It's going to be really interesting
to watch. And now there's the new rules where I
think you can be on twice and then you come off.
So if you if you don't if you fail to
get enough votes, so it's possible this is starting now,
(26:58):
but it's possible another turner two through the thing and
he might be done with being considered, which I this
is just if so, the Hall has made its own
decision of what it wants and doesn't want, and if
he doesn't get in, I think that's that's we're looking at.
That's what the Hall is decided. You know, this is
a They've had numerous and we'll have numerous shots to
(27:22):
put these guys in bonds and clements, and if they don't,
you know, that's changing the eligibility and the length of eligibility.
I think tells you something.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Kent Ken's real quick quickly. I played in that era. Yeah,
I know more than any Mitchell report says. I was
in the clubhouses, I was on the planes. I saw
what was going on. Until you can tell me how
many home runs Erry hit off of guys on steroids too,
then you don't have an argument for Barry Bonds not
(27:56):
making the Hall of Fame. So just say, out of
seven sixty two, let's throw three, three hundred and fifty
eight of his home runs were off guys on steroids.
Because pictures didn't look the part. Yeah, pictures didn't go
get jacked, like Mark maguire and like Sammy Sosa and
other guys. Pictures just threw the baseball. And by throwing
the baseball or long toss and you're building the muscles
(28:17):
up to throw baseball faster. So guys would leave spring
training throwing ninety one and come back next year throwing
ninety eight. And that was everywhere. So a picture you
could get away with it because you're not like jacked
and going up to the plate and you just look
maybe I don't know, ten pounds heavier, not noticeable. So
until you can tell me all that, and I'll just
(28:38):
say this, it was way more rampant, rampant what was
on the mitell reboard like, there was tons of guys
doing it.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
One of the guys that got popped in the middle
of it, you'll remember, was Paul Byrd, who was not
a particularly memorable picture with at that point the Indians
not imposing. And I thought, if Paul Bird is among
the gus, and there's a good chance there's a lot
of guys that we're not considering. But yeah, I mean
it's to me this is an era that is grossly
(29:09):
underrepresented in the Hall of Fame and that's not what
the Hall of Fame is for. And here's Jeff Kent.
I'm going to pop up some of his numbers. Jeff
Kent is a good example of this. Now, he's not
a slam dunk when it comes to numbers. I and
many other writers look at the Hall of Fame statistics
again on Baseball Reference dot com, which are interesting. There
(29:30):
are a couple of different formulations about what constitutes a
Hall of Famer or a likely Hall of Famer.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
I've had great ink noodles once at a restaurant. What
does that mean?
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Yeah, I think I have too. Actually I'm from Monterey,
so we got a lot of ink inky new.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
Partner.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
So these these numbers are on the left side are
Kent's numbers career, and that what the average Hall of
Famer has in these sort of various formulations. And so
you you can see that from some of these he's
either very close to a Hall of Famer, he is
a Hall of Famer, or you know, maybe you know
just borderline south of being a Hall of Famer. He's
(30:10):
always been a very interesting candidate for these reasons. But
I think second base is a position that is also underrepresented.
I think the era is underrepresented. I certainly hope that
Jeff Kent is a guy who the Contemporary Eras Committee
look out really closely. I mean again, I'm on the
(30:32):
ballot committee, so all of the names on this ballot
are ones that the committee as a whole thought, these
are people that need to be considered. But I firmly think,
and I've thought, that other second basemen need more consideration,
not necessarily on this ballot, but I've been big on
Bobby Gritch, for example, for a long time. He was
(30:52):
the best second baseman all around kind of of his era,
and he's not in. You know, Alan trammels In and
Luke Lou Whitaker isn't. My second base is really sort
of maligned. I don't get it, but I would love
to see a few more of these guys get in.
(31:13):
And I really do hope Kent gets a look because
the Hall of Fame, it's the Hall of Fame represent
the eras, represent the positions, don't. We don't just need
a bunch of slug in first basemen and right fielders
and starting pitchers.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
I'm a firm believer that you either are you aren't.
It's either one or a zero, And I have trouble
wrapping my head around people that have gotten in later
because we invent statistics that are that show that that
we didn't have ten years ago, that show that they
could be might be, should be. Thank you borderline guys.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
For you, where do you stand on Kent?
Speaker 1 (31:45):
Then it's either a F yes or f Now it's
a one or a zero for me, And it's it's
about the eye test. It's about you know, you see that,
you see guys you play against, you see guys you're
in the dugout with. You're like, that's all of famer.
And I don't know that I thought about that With Jeff.
I just knew he was a damn good ballplayer and he.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
Was a good a very very good guy.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
No, he's better than very good. Like he would tell
me things on the bench. I'd be like, you know,
I filed that slider off and I was right on it,
so I knew they were going to throw me a
fastball the next pitch. And he'd be like, no, stay
on the slider because that's what they think you're thinking.
He goes, never get off the pitch that you fill
straight back, and I go my whole career, and I
got like fifteen hits that year by doing that. So
(32:30):
he was a good teammate. He was fun to be around.
I would say this, and this is probably I don't
want to go viral, but like, if I had game
seven bases loaded, one person to drive in a run
of the two we're talking about, I think I would
want Jeff up because he was he would He just
(32:51):
had a great approach with runners in scoring position where he.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
Would bury bonds. That's what you're saying.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Yeah, I mean Barry probably had a Grand Slam, but
they probably both drive the runs in. But like Jeff
was so good with like as far as like taking
something out of a swing a lot like Buster posey,
like two for himself, one for the ball club, go
the other way. Barry's gonna hate me for this, but like,
if you need, if you needed a clutch run driven in,
Jeff was your guy.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
And you think he's all a fam with that. I
think that's what you're saying anyway. So well, neither of
us is on this current committee, so I guess it's.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
To be continued.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
We will find this out. It's during the winter meeting.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
Yours to figure it out. Either are you aren't.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
Yeah, well, it's gonna be an interesting It's gonna be
an interesting day when these results are announced at the winner.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
He doesn't hate me for saying that, but they both
would have got the runs in. But like if it's
like it's like everybody says they want a Kurt reid
Er to pitch Game seven, like that was their guy.
Like there's just a certain thing about JK, Like he
just he just stuck his nose in there, not the
Barry wouldn't. I'm just saying, like, if you need, if
you need to Sackfly, he's your guy, you need a
(34:06):
two strike base hit to write, he's your guy. You
need my home run.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
You're pretty sure you said he's better than Barry Bonds.
I'm pretty sure that's what you said.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
Garry Bond's the greatest player to ever walk the face
of the Earth. Period.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
Well, on that note, certainly stay tuned that that's going
to be an exciting day at the Winter Meetings, which
is I think the Winter Meetings open the seventh of December,
Pearl Harbor Day. So yeah, sometime that week.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
Not touching that one, Susan, we got number show number
two in the books. It was great to see you.
I'm gonna tease Tony next week. I asked for Tony Vitello,
so hopefully we get him, but if we don't, it'll
just be some great guests and on the greatest giants
podcast in the history of the world, splash Hit. No
greatest show in the history of the world. Splash Hit
(34:57):
Territory splash Hit. Subscribe to splash Hit on YouTube wherever
you get your podcasts. We are part of the Final
Territory Network. Susan Seluster, thank you for being a special
contributor today and I will see you next week.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
Fantastic Thanks Epete Dia
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