Longtime Giants and MLB reporter and columnist John Shea of the SF Standard, formerly of the San Francisco Chronicle, chats with F.P. Santangelo and Susan Slusser about the Giants' season, their current needs, and Buster Posey and Tony Vitello. Plus, he remembers Willie Mays and discusses Jeff Kent showing a lot of emotion after Shea's Hall of Fame questions.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
All right, what's going on everybody?
Speaker 2 (00:08):
It's the Christmas edition of Splash Hit Territory. Merry Christmas, everybody,
Happy holidays, and join us once again as our frequent
contributor Susan Sluser.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Susan, how we doing great?
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Marry almost Christmas to you. Big week coming up and
we've got New Year's next week. All sorts of fun
stuff and plenty of Giants baseball to talk about.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Always plenty of Giants baseball.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
But the best Christmas you could possibly best Christmas present
you could possibly give.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Everybody is subscribing.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
To our show. So there it is right there. Subscribe
to Splash Hit Territory. Next goals three thousand. I think
we're right around two thousand right now. So we're trying
to get this big. We're doing two shows a week
during the off season. We're gonna do three shows a
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break down ball games and stuff and all kinds of moves.
So just it's really easy, just go on there and subscribe.
(00:57):
We love all the feedback so far you guys have
been but joining us today from the SF Standard, our
longtime friend, our buddy, Susan's colleague for a long time.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Now he's with the s F Standard. John Shay, John,
what's going on? How are you?
Speaker 4 (01:11):
How are you? Great? To see you guys?
Speaker 5 (01:14):
So fun?
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Mary Christmas? Yeah, where are we talking to you?
Speaker 5 (01:20):
Where are you?
Speaker 4 (01:21):
I'm down south southern California kind of doing a roll
call of family members from here to there, So I
plan to be in some warm weather and cold weather
these coming days.
Speaker 5 (01:38):
Sounds fantastic, pretty ideal.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Well, we thought you would be a really good person
to have on for many a reason. But you know,
we'll talk some Hall of Fame stuff coming up later.
Obviously you've been a voter for a long time and
you covered Jeff Kent, so we want to get some
of your thoughts on that. But since the year is
kind of wrapping down here, let's start a little bit
with the Giants and there season. My first question for
(02:01):
you is, how would you characterize twenty twenty five the
whole thing from start to now for the San Francisco Giants.
Speaker 4 (02:09):
You mean the off season or from the regular season on.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
We just talking about whatever you whatever you think, the
whole regular season plus maybe even go and dipping into
this offseason.
Speaker 5 (02:20):
But we've got specific off season question.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
It's still amazing.
Speaker 4 (02:23):
I'm sure you agree that even Buster Posey has taken
on this gigantic task of turning the franchise around, because
in the history of the Giants, I don't remember so
many five hundred, five hundred ish seasons back to back
to back to back to back to back. It's all
we see, it's all we end up with. And I
thought Bob Melvin was the right guy. It didn't seem
(02:45):
to be the case according to Posey and company, even
though it was the case in early July, then in
early late September he wasn't the guy. And you know,
from picking up the option to firing him. So I'm
looking at all these college football games and even NFL games.
Every coach is Tony Vitello. Every coach just has incredible
(03:09):
enthusiasm and passion and drive and will, and they're all
great talkers in the clubhouse or locker room after a game,
after a win or after a loss. It's ross stuff.
And I guess that's twenty twenty five. I mean, it's
not Felipe Alu, right, it's not Joe Tory and everyone
you had in between, for sure, But maybe that's the trend.
(03:32):
Maybe Buster Posey is cutting edge because it works in
other sports. It's one hundred and sixty two games, it's
a grind. It's a daily story. Instead of a weekly
story Saturday or Sunday on the gridiron, it airs every
day on the diamond. It's so different. And the fascinating
thing is Susan, I think and FPI when you and
(03:54):
I and all of us are in the press box
next year, it's like we're not watching the field, We're
not watching the game, We're watching the dugout. We want
to see this guy's mannerisms. We want to see if
he explodes. We want to see if he chest bumps
a guy after a single, you know, is he is
he going to be dynamic? Is he going to be
laid back? That's the story. You know, the wins and
(04:16):
the losses will come, but I just want to see
how this guy from the first day of spring training
on manages himself and shoot Buster Posey. We've all known
in love for many years, since draft day when he
was taken, you know, in the first round by the Giants,
and all of a sudden, he's the key to three
(04:36):
championships and I don't know many other giants. You know,
you put Mays McCovey on the list who have been
respected so much as people and baseball mind, so to
have this play out after one year was disappointing. Buster
keeps saying we're better than that. I'm not sure they
were better than that. I think they were. I think
we witnessed a five hundred team because there was no depth.
(04:59):
So how it plays out in twenty six is going
to be a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
I'm all about the Rara.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
You guys know that, But I want to know John,
how you think that translates into one hundred and sixty
two games and with grown men. So we're talking about college,
We're talking about eighteen to twenty one year old kids.
In football, you're talking about fourteen fifteen games a year.
Now you have grown men making thirty forty million dollars
a year with families in one hundred and sixty two games.
(05:27):
How do you think that translates into baseball?
Speaker 4 (05:29):
In college, you can't say no to the coach, right
because he determines your playing time.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Well, you can get in the transfer portal. So yeah, yeah,
I understand it's.
Speaker 4 (05:38):
Different now, But in the pros, you know, unless you're
an A ball or double A, you can say no, hey,
I'm not going to play today or whatever. And even
Tony LaRussa, the you know, kind of a red ass
manager back in the day. He gave Ricky and Jose
and all these guys leverage to show up, lay or
(06:00):
miss a game. He took care of those guys. So
even the hardest manager is sometimes soft on players. But
in college you don't have to be soft on anybody. Yeah,
you could lose a guy to a transfer portal, but
at Tennessee, I mean, that's kind of a destination college,
so you want to go there, and once you're there,
you better listen to the coach unless you're just a
(06:21):
super superstar and he's going to play regardless. But that's
going to be part of the story how they listened.
Willie Domas Ralfie Devers totally different cultures than a Matt
Chapman who went to college who gets it, who hung
out with Drew Gilbert and thought Drew was cool. Now,
I think Willie did two to an extent. You know,
(06:42):
we just saw him at the tail end of the
season and he was fun to watch, But how's that
going to play? And how's the opposing picture when witnessing
Drew Gilbert and all these antics that are going on,
If they are going on in twenty six, you know,
there's still some Madison Bumgarners out there. And the players
determine that they police the game right, they police They've
(07:03):
always they always had that. It's their game. And what
fans watch, what media watch, is the culmination of what
the players want to do, how they how they want
to police themselves and and and that's always been the thing,
you know, MLB, the commissioner and the umpires, Let the
players play. Let the players police themselves, and we'll see
(07:25):
if that plays.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
John Way, I think the one thing we really learned
about Buster this year, and I maybe we shouldn't have
been surprised knowing Buster Posey as a player, but he's
obviously very willing to go bull, to go against the grain.
The Devers deal obviously huge, nobody saw it come in.
And then the Tony Vtello hire. Did this surprise you though,
(07:51):
even knowing that the Vitello higher And what's the potential
now for something off the wall this offseason given all
the needs they have?
Speaker 4 (08:01):
Yeah, and I think fans are real critical right now,
it's doomsday. But MLB rosters aren't created in one week
like NBA rosters. You know, where Lebron and kd go, Okay,
we're done. We just need two more players and that's it.
And it doesn't work that way in baseball. It's a
four month off season, sometimes longer if it goes into
(08:21):
February and March. So I think it's kind of premature
to say, you know, the Giants aren't doing things right.
Even though the Dodgers and the Diamondbacks and the Padres
all have spent somewhat big so far, the Giants really haven't.
You know, what is it? The pitcher for twenty two,
another picture for one point four, and that's kind of it.
(08:44):
They haven't really done anything except some waiver claims on
the offensive side. And you know, I mean this is
this is a fan base at Selbuster. Right at the
heart of the winter meetings, if not before, signed William
Damas to the biggest contract ever in franchise history, bigger
than his own. And now it's virtually nothing because we
(09:06):
haven't seen any star power, and the free agent pool
of unsigned players is still pretty potent and powerful on
the pitching side, and the hitting side, and they don't
have to go big on guys, they don't have to
spend a lot. But I still wouldn't be surprised if
he if he pulls out a singer between now and
(09:26):
spring training, because that's him, and when you least expect it,
he'll he'll do it. And and good for him, because
that's all the talk will just suddenly go away overnight.
Oh you know it's Greg Johnson not spending. It's Buster
Posey being far anxiety all over again. It's it's Zach
Minaji and you know, not not being all in on
(09:46):
the big big names, especially in the rotation. You know
that all goes away as soon as we see the
final roster.
Speaker 5 (09:53):
I think, go ahead.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Well, I think you gotta be careful in any organization,
said you try to piece the fan base with a
move just to make a move. Yeah, and you have to,
you have to stick to your plan. But you talked
about a singer. What what would be that zinger?
Speaker 1 (10:08):
What what would what? What move would just get us
all excited and and and be a smart move on
top of it.
Speaker 4 (10:17):
Well, if they don't go heavy for you know, the
Veldezes and the Suarez is and the emis Zach Allen
is well, you know, I mean his metrics as advanced
numbers are trending kind of in the wrong direction, which
means he won't be as expensive. I mean trending in
the wrong direction. I think of a Barry Zito when
(10:38):
he went from Oakland to San Francisco, which wasn't good
except for two postseason games over all those years. But
maybe they think they're smart enough to turn Zach Allen
into what he was. But I wouldn't mind seeing a
lower level. And if they're not willing to spend big,
there's still there's still you know, Chris Bassett, right, he's
(10:59):
out there, Lucas Dildo and Harrison Bader in the outfield,
you put him in center and moved Jounghu to right.
You got a much better defensive outfield because he's Gold
Club Gold Glove caliber out there in center, and maybe
a little deeper lineup because he's coming off a career year.
(11:21):
But somebody like that where it's not it's not the
top end guys, and it's it's it's the it's the
fellas in the middle. Who if you're what forty million
dollars away from the tax threshold, and that's what you're
looking at, two hundred and forty two million or whatever.
Then what are they forty forty five million away from
that now on the forty man roster side anyway? For
(11:44):
tax purposes? Then those are the kinds of guys, you know,
Are they zingers? Maybe no, but it's a lot more
depth than they have. Now, what do you guys think?
Speaker 5 (11:54):
Well, I don't.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
I don't think that's a zinger. But I've been kind
of the Cody Bellinger drum a while that he's the
perfect guy for a team that needs both offense and
defense in the outfield, he'd be perfect if he want
to if you want a real big one, and I,
you know, you and I both talked to Greg Johnson
after the season and he told us both sort of
similar thing that they don't really want to spend, you know,
(12:16):
they don't want a lot of nine figure salaries, they
don't want a lot more five six year deals. But
he also indicated that they're pretty comfortable going over the
tax threshold, and he's been pretty consistent with that. Buster
Posey sounded pretty confident that if he takes a deal
to ownership, that makes sense that they'll support him. So
(12:39):
I'm a little confused on a little bit of mixed
messaging maybe from ownership to both you and me. But
I you know, the fact that Buster was able to
talk them into devors last year makes me that I'm
definitely listening to Buster.
Speaker 4 (12:53):
Right, and they can talk all they want behind closed doors,
and the consensus obviously going into that press conference when
when Greg Johnson spoke and thereafter was hey, you know,
we got to kind of watch the purse here. We're
spending all this money on real estate. I mean, the
fans say, who cared? But at the same time, Larry
(13:16):
Bear says, all those investments are going to help the
team hasn't so far, all that money they're making over
on lot A maybe hasn't helped generate more revenue for
all it has, but maybe they haven't spent it on
the payroll yet. But they said it's coming. And it
was funny though, when we were sitting in Buster Suite
Susan first day of the winter meetings and he said
(13:38):
that to us. He said, well, you know, when we said,
you know, Greg Johnson been pretty hard. You know, you
must have some restrictions here, right, He said, well, you know,
love the ownership, love the partnership, and they know and
we know that if we find a special player and
bring it to them that they could budget. They said,
oh okay, so it's not quite there's not like a
(14:00):
Etchton stone line. We can't go over here. So that's
that he really softened what Greg Johnson told us. So
I think that's that's good news for a Giant fans.
So yeah, if they come to one of those top
end free agents still out there from the outfield side
or the pitching side, I mean, they got to be
in it. There's a lot of players left over, and
(14:22):
it's late December and this is going to go into January.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Yeah, yeah, I just I just think you try to
go for winning players and it.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Might not be the sexy move.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Maybe maybe on the pitching side the sexy move works,
But when you talk about the giants of the past,
like the hundred Pences, and I don't want to lump
in Marco Scutero and Cody Ross and Pat Burland.
Speaker 4 (14:42):
Guys like that.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
I want winning players, scrappy players that are going to
try to find a way to beat you, because when
you just like measure it on paper against the Dodgers,
there's not one team in the big leagues that measures
up to that, So how do you compete with a
team like that? And to me, it's about having winning championships,
players that are going to outwork you out, find a
way to beat you out, find a way to scout you,
(15:05):
like whatever it is.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
You just outwork everybody.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
And I know that sounds idealistic, and you got to
have your horses to win, but they already got some horses.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
On this roster. So how do you compete?
Speaker 2 (15:16):
You turn over every stone and you just surround yourself
with like guys that battle and fight and scrap and
claw that find a way to win. And it might
not be the sexy name that we're all looking for.
It might be a handful.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Of guys that you know, hit six, seven, eight nine.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
They're going to fight you every single day and run
up pitch counts and not put up tremendous numbers, but
put up solid numbers, and play great defense, and run
the bases aggressively intelligently, and just play hard every night
and be a reflection of the manager with enthusiasm. And
I think that's why Buster hired Tony Vaytello kind of
out of the box hire back to the.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Original conversation about the raw ros stuff.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
I don't know that it has to be raw row,
but it has to be energy on a daily basis.
It has to be an attitude and a mindset that
we're going to find a way to be every night
even if we're out manned. I mean, that's how they
won three World Series. They weren't the most talented team
in the tournament any one of those years. They were
the hottest team In twenty ten, twelve, I was like, oh,
they're out in the first round, and then they found
(16:13):
a way and fourteen kind of the same thing, but
they had that magical thing going. I don't know if
there's any analytic to measure that, but you know, I
think they're on the right track. I would like to
see some guys like Harrison Vader. He would be my
number one. I don't think he's an everyday guy, but
he's definitely can crush lefties and play a great center
field and be your center fielder in the seventh and
(16:34):
eighth to ninth every inning if you have a lead.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
So that's kind of where I'm going to this.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Remember, as Susan, we talked to Buck last time, and
he's like, you can compete with the big boys if
you out scout them out, prepare them out, attitude them,
outwork them. He said, there's a way to find a
way to.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
Win in this division.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
John, Do you see any way that these guys can
compete in this division right now as it stands as
the Stans.
Speaker 4 (16:55):
No, but again, there's a few months left before opening day.
And everything you described in a player right then was
Willie Damas because you look what he did previously. He
was on winning teams virtually every year, playoff teams virtually
every year, and he was in the heart of that
that roster, the middle of the infield guy, middle of
(17:17):
the lineup guy. And you saw his mannerisms. He was
a bonding guy. He got everyone on the same page.
He was a leader. He plays every day. Matt Chapman
plays every day, and Raffie Devers plays every day. Those
are three core guys who don't just you know, produce,
(17:38):
they strike out, weigh too much, but they show up,
they post, they play every day. Chapman got hurt, so
he didn't win a gold Glove, but he's basically a
gold Glove winner every time he plays one hundred and
fifty games and he usually does. And Devers played one
hundred and sixty three over two teams. It's like Jose
(17:58):
Pagan nineteen six. I think it was the last time
when they played one hundred and sixty five with that
Dodger Giant three game match after one sixty two. But anyway,
it's it's guys like that Vader or whomever Hunter Pens
played one hundred and sixty two. You know, it's guys
like that who who show up every day and play
and are durable and want to be in the lineup,
(18:20):
don't want days off, and Devors might want a day off,
meaning okay, I'll d h once or twice a week.
That's his day off. You know, fine, you know, keep
him off his feet for you know, once or twice
a week so that you know he is healthy over
the whole whole season. But I mean, if you could,
you know, Casey Schmid, is he the answer at second well,
if they find an outfielder, he is. And Zach Susan
(18:43):
told us the other day that for now he's the guy.
You know. They really like what he does and he's
got a great upside. I thought a few years ago
he was going to be the everyday shortstop on this debut.
So good out there in the limited reps I saw,
and you know, his power numbers were playing up, and
you know, again the strikeouts. Wester loves contact. He loved
(19:05):
Dom Smith. You know, they have three first basement if
they sign him and don't trade Bryce Eldridge, which is
another factor. But it just seems that the further we
get into the off season, by the way, it seems,
the more we all believe they're going to keep Eldridge.
Speaker 5 (19:24):
You agree, I don't agree.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
Yeah, I think anything's still on the tip. They just
have so many needs and I you know, the guys
you mentioned they play all the time. They've got great attitudes,
team leader type guys, but they still finished even last year.
Speaker 5 (19:42):
So to me, they need quite.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
A bit more in my opinion, especially offensively and especially
the outfield defense, which was abysmal. And I'm going to
try not to make any current theater jokes when you
talk about the real estates visa vis the Giants and
free agency, but that was a that was an interesting
little purchase that I know has a fan base.
Speaker 4 (20:05):
Is he a righty or a lefty?
Speaker 1 (20:09):
If they just have Hamilton there the whole time. They
can get a lot of players. I feel like.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
Programming is the guy that knows nothing about theater or
Broadway or anything like that.
Speaker 5 (20:23):
I just saw a terrific show there.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
They do the Golden Girls Christmas episodes this time of
year and it was so fun. So's shout shout out,
not just not just going to make fun of the
current theater.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Look at your bench player maybe girls. Yeah, And I mean.
Speaker 4 (20:42):
The giants say they bought it for the betterment of
San Francisco. Okay, that's probably true, but also it's going
to be a revenue source. I mean they're not They're
not silly. They know what they're doing. They invest in
San Francisco for a lot more reasons than the betterment
of the city. It's to make a lot of money.
And pretty much the initial investors of this team back
in ninety three, they were all real estate folks around
(21:04):
town and from Shorenstein and all these investors, all these
in real estate, in the market whatever, you know, they're
smart people. And now we see the offspring of those
folks who are kind of taken over for them, and
they have new investors in but it's still San Francisco
real estate is a big deal.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
The kind of on along the lines of older time
San Francisco. You obviously were my colleague for a very
long time the San Francisco Chronicle, and you wrote so
beautifully about Willie Mace for so long. Your biography of
him is absolutely a must read for any baseball fan.
To me, it's one of the best ever. Also, your
(21:48):
Ricky autobiography is for Asva, It's also a must But
what was going back two years twenty twenty four? Just
how would you describe that year for you personally, because
you worked so hard on that wonderful Road to Rickwood
series in the run up and then obviously Willie Mays
(22:08):
dies in the middle of the run up for that,
and you had known him and been really close friends
with him for quite some time.
Speaker 4 (22:17):
Yeah, that was I tell people every time I see
them in the league, I said, you know, that Rickwood week,
that Rickwood game, that Rickwood event was one of the
best things you guys have ever done. It was masterful
and from the field to the history, to the former
Negro leaguers to honoring May's And the game was on
(22:38):
a Thursday and we lose Willie on the Tuesday. And
it's still stunning because Willy was a guy who always
got up for the big event, you know, whether it's
on the field or some reunion he's invited to at
the ballpark, or his birthday celebration at the ballpark, especially
in his later years when he wasn't getting around very well,
(23:01):
he wasn't seeing well and he was in a chair.
But when the day came, he was ready and he
got his mind and body on target to be there.
So when I got the call Tuesday at about three
o'clock California time, it was stunning because I said, no,
(23:24):
that's not true. Because Willie's events coming in. You know,
it might as well call it the Willy Maids Classic, right,
it was to honor the Negro leagues, but it was
really to honor Mays and and I just couldn't believe it.
I said, no, no, he always gets up for the
big game. This is this is a crank call. And
sure enough we lost Willie just he just you know,
some hard issues. He just stopped breathing. And Dusty Baker
(23:47):
visited him the day before on his way to Birmingham,
and you know, while we all knew he wasn't doing well.
Nobody ever imagined this is going to be the end,
you know, like we know some people we know dearly.
He say, oh, you know, it's probably got a day,
maybe two. But with May's. The doctor even came in
that morning, visited Willie and took some blood, did some
(24:10):
tests and left thinking, okay, he's fine. And one of
the most emotional stories I I've been told about that
those final hours is when the doctor came in to
draw blood. You know, he couldn't he couldn't get a grip.
He couldn't you know, they couldn't find a vein. They couldn't.
They couldn't do it. So Renee Anderson gives Willie Mays,
(24:33):
you know the one thing that you know he's he's
had in his hand a million times, and that's a baseball.
H holds the baseball. Now you can draw blood. And
they went, so it's the last baseball, you know WILLI
ever gripped. And so anyway, you know, I had visited
him six days before he died, just to see him
(24:56):
and say hi, and I kicked myself. I say, hey, Willy,
anything I can get you in Birmingham, like a cap
or a t shirt, and I said, this is Willie Mays.
You can get on the phone and get like dozens
of boxes of hats and T shirts. What am I doing?
Asking to stay in line? We get a little hat
for Willie Mays, No though, I did on his nineth
(25:17):
birthday get him an old BBB baseball cap, like a
profitted uh Birmingham Black Bearn's cap. And I called up Murphy.
I said, what's his size? And you know, it's like
half the size of Bochie and he said, okay, I'm
getting that. So but it was so emotional, and yeah,
(25:39):
that year that was that was a big year in
Giants history because we lost Orlando, we lost Willie, and man,
you know, we honored Willy at the ballpark, then we
honored Orlando at the ballpark. And it's like, you know,
the these these people you see when you're in high school,
growing up as a kid, and then you get the
(26:02):
honor to actually be in the major league clubhouse and
there's Willie over there holding court. And that, Susan was
when in two thousand and Brian Murphy and I came
over from the Examiner and you and Henry Shulman, so
we kind of had two of everything. So Murph became
a golf writer. Henry had the giant speak, you had
the A'SB. And I became national guy. And at that
(26:22):
point I said, Okay, this is I'm going to spend
all my time, you know, just stepping back and writing
about these guys. And May's was always there, right, he
was always there at PI. Every time you were in
the club, you were a giant. You saw Mays, you
saw McCovey, and you went to other. You went to
other You didn't see like Cofacts every day at Dodgers Dadium.
You see Bench every day in Cincinnati, or Ernie Banks
(26:42):
or any Billy Williams every day at Wrigley. But you
saw Mays, McCovey and all these legends. And the first
thing they ever did was visit Murse's office because that's
the one common denominator for all these guys and that's
where they hung out. It was beautiful and those are
memories that never go away.
Speaker 5 (27:00):
That's great stuff, Susan.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
You got anything else? I feel like we should end
it right there. Well, unless you do.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
We did promise some thoughts on Jeff Kent because John
covered Jeff Kent. And then when Jeff Kent went in
to the hall on the off the Veterans Committee, the
Eras Committee. John John asked all the most probing questions
I would say if he had he had Kent and
tears not once, but numerous times, first on the phone
(27:29):
call with writers and then the during the press conference
at the winter meetings.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
So well, he just almost made me cry right now.
So maybe that's his thing.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
He's just like you make people cry, now, John, that's well,
you think about it.
Speaker 4 (27:41):
I went into that press conference thinking, okay, who are
the giants Hall of Famers that spent most of their
time in San Francisco. I mean, you know, we can't
count Steve Carlton or Goose Gossage or or or or
Gary Carter, any of these guys who were one and
done or two and done. And who are the guys
who were there, spent most of their time in San
(28:01):
Francisco and or did their best work in San Francisco. Well,
it's the statues, It's the Five Statues. It's Mays and
Marshall and Perry and and McCovey and and Sapada. So
when I asked him that question, the first question that
or maybe not the first question. But anyway, I said,
I said, Jeff, you know there have been five of
(28:23):
these and they're all statues. You know, May's, McCovey, Cepada, Marshall, Perry,
and now Jeff Kent. What do you think about that?
What do you say to that? And he he just
couldn't talk. He says, I don't belong. He says, there's
no way you can pin me with those guys. So
the more he talked, the more broken up you got.
It was pretty emotional to watch, and nobody was going
(28:45):
to interrupt them. He was on his own out there,
and we never saw that at his locker. He was
always the hard dude, you know, don't get in that
my face. And you had to come with him, just
like Buster, just like Barry, just like a lot of
these guys have Pete. You had to in with your
a game because they were not taking silly questions. And
as a beat writer or whatever, you you got to
(29:07):
read the room. Some of these guys. You know, not
to not to talk about certain TV people, but certain
TV people might come in and ask kind of goofy questions,
but they get away with it. They just want that SoundBite.
As beat writers, you can't do that. You got to
you gotta be serious, and you gotta come with your
A game. And if you didn't have your A game
with Kent, you know, you would walk away with your
(29:29):
tail between your legs. And it's a whoops. I learned
a bad lesson. They're same with Buster, same with Barry.
So there's a common denominator there. You know, all those guys,
all those guys the Buster talks about it now. They
didn't want to be anybody's friends on another team. Kent
didn't want friends, Bons didn't want friends, Bonds didn't want
friends in his own clubhouse. Same with Kent. I remember
(29:51):
one time, Susan, we were back in the nineties, early
two thousands. Kent was on the team, and we knew
Kent was over here and Barry was over there on
all all kinds of issues, and they didn't want their
lockers next to each other. But man, were they good
on the field. So in this restaurant there is a
group of Giants players, you know, JT or really over here,
(30:13):
and then over here is like four or five of
us beat writers. And then I see from the distance,
I see here comes Jeff Kent. This is going to
be fun, what's he going to do? So Kent walks
in the room, you know, checks it out, and does
a beeline right in between us, goes in the back
of the restaurant and eats alone. You know, he didn't.
He didn't want to be with anybody. I mean, that's
(30:33):
just him. He even said as Prescott, I'm not a
social guy. I didn't want to be your friend. You
know I didn't. I didn't laugh, I didn't smile, and
I got pissed off if I went three for four.
You know, I want to go four for four. I
got pissed off if I made an errand. And I'm
still shocked he got in because of Maddie Lee and
Dale Murphy and all these legends. It was a stack ballot,
and I would have I would have been I would
(30:54):
have not been surprised if nobody got in, because they
could have canceled each other out with five or six
votes the peach and you only get three of the
sixteen voting board. So yeah, I'm glad he's in. But
nobody would have ever guessed that he would have gotten
in before Barry Right.
Speaker 5 (31:13):
Nobody would have guessed that.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
Nobody would have guessed that he has a little bit
of a more of an emotional soul. I think that
we gave him credit for too, But yeah, very the
Verry topic is one for probably another time, and well
I guess it'll be six years from now the next
time he's eligible, which those new rules have not been
kind to him.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
We all get soft when we get older. I cry
and everything now, so.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
That that makes sense, John, this is for you and Susan,
and then we'll probably wrap it up after this. Having
your a game that just like piqued my interest? Did
that make you guys better beat writers? Because you had
to have your a game against certain when you're asking
certain questions to certain players.
Speaker 4 (31:51):
Susan, did you have those? Did you have those?
Speaker 1 (31:53):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (31:55):
Well, I mean, honestly, it was mostly those guys that
you mentioned more when I was a backup Kenton, certainly Bonds,
but there were a few others, and again it was
usually mostly the Giants. I don't know if it's maybe
because more high profile team in the Bay Area, but
Bump Bum Garner.
Speaker 5 (32:11):
Was very much like that too.
Speaker 3 (32:12):
I'm mean I had, you know, John, I had such
genial as teams usually you know FP, I mean really
friendly and I do I am a writer who likes
to chit chat with players, and I think that's valuable.
I want to know who guys are. I want to
be able to you know, I want to know a
little bit about your family and a little bit about
your background and just kind of what makes you tick.
And uh, you know, I'm a chit chatter by nature anyway,
(32:36):
So it's tougher for for somebody.
Speaker 5 (32:38):
Like me, with guys who are really tough to crack.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
And only want you know, to you to come up
and ask them sparingly, very good, top notch baseball questions
and nothing else. I feel like you don't get quite
as much inside and some of those guys, I feel
like we don't. Maybe Buster aside, and Buster could be tough,
but but he was always so accommodating, even though he
(33:01):
was he was no nonsense, but he was nothing on
the level of like Bonds and Kent and maybe even
Pau mcgarner.
Speaker 4 (33:08):
And you had so many young teams in Oakland and
other than the Ron Gants and Mike Piazza's and David
Justices and and fellas like that, who Billy being brought
in every other year. But it's it's probably that they
looked up to you to figure out how how was
it like Marcus Simeon, for example, when we voted Marcus
Simeon the Bill Rigney Good Guy Award, And not everybody knows,
(33:31):
but the Beat writers get together every year on the
A side and Giant side and said, okay, let's it's
not a big thing, but it is for us. Okay,
who's our good Guy of the Year Award? And and
you know it's usually someone who's accommodating someone, someone who's
there accountable and you know, good quote you that's what
we're looking for, right, you know, someone we could go
(33:52):
to go to guy. And one year it was Marcus
Simeon in Oakland and and I went up to him afterwards,
I said, you know why I voted for you? He
said why? He said, you know, every time I walk
up to talk to you, you stand up. It's like,
you know, I don't I don't demand anything, but I
(34:12):
acknowledge everything. And I just thought that was that was
really cool. And he said he talked about how his
dad always told him anybody shows up at the room,
you stand up, you shake your hand, and I just
thought it was the coolest thing. Then he said, now,
who is Bill Rigney.
Speaker 5 (34:29):
I said, oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (34:31):
These guys are explained to him how he's a great
executive with the A's and a great manager and Willie's
teammate in New York on the Giant side. So it's
it's cool. I mean some of these, some of these guys,
it's really cool. Like who was it? The Giant set
recently had a guy who won the award and then
(34:52):
went back to the clubhouse and bragged about how he's
the best guy in the team because he's the good
the one good guy in the team.
Speaker 3 (34:57):
Because he has pretty logan is delighted to win that
two years ago as anybody has ever been. But yeah,
he did have some running battles with guys over who
was the best guy from that.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
You guys should have the biggest a Hole award too,
that'd be awesome. And then just let the fans know
that this guy's a jerky and make it public. John,
thanks so much for joining us today. Catch John, Jay
s f Standard. I hope you guys have a merry Christmas. Susan,
thanks for joining us today. It's been John. The stories
were amazing. I mean, this is one of my favorite
(35:31):
ones we've done so far.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
You nailed it. You knocked it out of the park.
We knew you would. So thanks for joining us today.
I hope you have a very merry Christmas.
Speaker 4 (35:38):
Yeah, hey, Susan, you know I love FP. When I
don't know how many years ago, but I'm sitting in
the chronicle chair and FP is to my right, where
like Ron Wotis often wills it, and I look over
and like almost every day he's calling play by play
into a tape recorder, you know, like he's a twelve
year old kid, meaning this guy is serious about his
(36:01):
He's at a certain age and still doing this. He's
not up in the bleachers where nobody could hear him.
I mean he was I was. I told you big
at the time. Is that that's really impressive? I love it?
Do you remember that?
Speaker 1 (36:12):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (36:12):
Thanks John, that worked out real well. I did play
by play for a year and now I'm doing color.
That's saying, that's the hardest thing I've ever done in broadcasting,
is trying to do radio play by play. Yeah that
my vocabulary is not broad enough. There's so much involved
into it. I bit off a little bit more than
I could. You I would probably try to try to
readdress it again sometime in the future because I'm a
(36:34):
little more relaxed now. I was just move back to
San Francisco. Man that I have so much respect for
Dwayne and John and Dave and Joe, Ritzo and everybody
that does play by play on the radio.
Speaker 4 (36:45):
It is.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
It is a lot harder than it looks.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
And we are blessed as Giants fans to have the
broadcasters we have.
Speaker 4 (36:52):
And even though Dwayne doesn't win that award or Mike
doesn't win that award and Joe Buck wins that award,
Giant fans are pulling their hair out. You know, this
guy's a football announcer. He's Joe Buck. He's twenty years
younger than Dwayne. He's his Dad's in there. There's plenty
of time for him to be put in there. I'm thinking,
there's a perfect year for Dwayne and the The problem
is Dwayne's not going to be eligible next year, and
(37:14):
either is Mike because the Hall of Fame every fifth
year considers people before the wildcard era, So next year
is that year. So Mike and Dwyane and all these
other people on the ballot this year are wild cart
era broadcasters. So every fifth year they look back way
(37:35):
way way long ago to honor somebody from the fifties
or forties or whatever. So Dwayne won't be up for
a couple more years, and Barry won't be up till
twenty thirty one. But the class of twenty seven is
going to look big with if everybody gets in, Dusty
and Bochie and Buster, they're all on the ballot to
(37:56):
all the stars are aligning for a big, big party
in Cooperstown in July of twenty seven.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
Well, I'm very biased about Dwayne. I wouldn't be a
big league broadcaster if it.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
Wasn't for him.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
But no other broadcaster on that ballot, and they were
all amazing, And I'm a big Joe Buck fan. No
other broadcaster on that ballot lost his spouse, battled cancer
and still brought his a game on a nightly basis
and realizes how important it is to be the voice
of the San Francisco Giants and what it means and
how lucky he is to be a major league broadcaster.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
So I felt like the ball was dropped on that.
But like I said, I'm biased. All right, guys, we're
wrapping it up.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
Merry Christmas, Susan, Merry Christmas, John, Happy Holidays to everybody
out there. Don't forget to like and subscribe. This is
a really good podcast. We have a great time, and
Merry Christmas.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
To all, and to all a good night.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
Like I say on the way out, every single time,
swing hard in case you hit it.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
President St.
All right, what's going on everybody?
Speaker 2 (00:08):
It's the Christmas edition of Splash Hit Territory. Merry Christmas, everybody,
Happy holidays, and join us once again as our frequent
contributor Susan Sluser.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Susan, how we doing great?
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Marry almost Christmas to you. Big week coming up and
we've got New Year's next week. All sorts of fun
stuff and plenty of Giants baseball to talk about.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Always plenty of Giants baseball.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
But the best Christmas you could possibly best Christmas present
you could possibly give.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Everybody is subscribing.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
To our show. So there it is right there. Subscribe
to Splash Hit Territory. Next goals three thousand. I think
we're right around two thousand right now. So we're trying
to get this big. We're doing two shows a week
during the off season. We're gonna do three shows a
week during the season. We'll really get into it and
break down ball games and stuff and all kinds of moves.
So just it's really easy, just go on there and subscribe.
(00:57):
We love all the feedback so far you guys have
been but joining us today from the SF Standard, our
longtime friend, our buddy, Susan's colleague for a long time.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Now he's with the s F Standard. John Shay, John,
what's going on? How are you?
Speaker 4 (01:11):
How are you? Great? To see you guys?
Speaker 5 (01:14):
So fun?
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Mary Christmas? Yeah, where are we talking to you?
Speaker 5 (01:20):
Where are you?
Speaker 4 (01:21):
I'm down south southern California kind of doing a roll
call of family members from here to there, So I
plan to be in some warm weather and cold weather
these coming days.
Speaker 5 (01:38):
Sounds fantastic, pretty ideal.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Well, we thought you would be a really good person
to have on for many a reason. But you know,
we'll talk some Hall of Fame stuff coming up later.
Obviously you've been a voter for a long time and
you covered Jeff Kent, so we want to get some
of your thoughts on that. But since the year is
kind of wrapping down here, let's start a little bit
with the Giants and there season. My first question for
(02:01):
you is, how would you characterize twenty twenty five the
whole thing from start to now for the San Francisco Giants.
Speaker 4 (02:09):
You mean the off season or from the regular season on.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
We just talking about whatever you whatever you think, the
whole regular season plus maybe even go and dipping into
this offseason.
Speaker 5 (02:20):
But we've got specific off season question.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
It's still amazing.
Speaker 4 (02:23):
I'm sure you agree that even Buster Posey has taken
on this gigantic task of turning the franchise around, because
in the history of the Giants, I don't remember so
many five hundred, five hundred ish seasons back to back
to back to back to back to back. It's all
we see, it's all we end up with. And I
thought Bob Melvin was the right guy. It didn't seem
(02:45):
to be the case according to Posey and company, even
though it was the case in early July, then in
early late September he wasn't the guy. And you know,
from picking up the option to firing him. So I'm
looking at all these college football games and even NFL games.
Every coach is Tony Vitello. Every coach just has incredible
(03:09):
enthusiasm and passion and drive and will, and they're all
great talkers in the clubhouse or locker room after a game,
after a win or after a loss. It's ross stuff.
And I guess that's twenty twenty five. I mean, it's
not Felipe Alu, right, it's not Joe Tory and everyone
you had in between, for sure, But maybe that's the trend.
(03:32):
Maybe Buster Posey is cutting edge because it works in
other sports. It's one hundred and sixty two games, it's
a grind. It's a daily story. Instead of a weekly
story Saturday or Sunday on the gridiron, it airs every
day on the diamond. It's so different. And the fascinating
thing is Susan, I think and FPI when you and
(03:54):
I and all of us are in the press box
next year, it's like we're not watching the field, We're
not watching the game, We're watching the dugout. We want
to see this guy's mannerisms. We want to see if
he explodes. We want to see if he chest bumps
a guy after a single, you know, is he is
he going to be dynamic? Is he going to be
laid back? That's the story. You know, the wins and
(04:16):
the losses will come, but I just want to see
how this guy from the first day of spring training
on manages himself and shoot Buster Posey. We've all known
in love for many years, since draft day when he
was taken, you know, in the first round by the Giants,
and all of a sudden, he's the key to three
(04:36):
championships and I don't know many other giants. You know,
you put Mays McCovey on the list who have been
respected so much as people and baseball mind, so to
have this play out after one year was disappointing. Buster
keeps saying we're better than that. I'm not sure they
were better than that. I think they were. I think
we witnessed a five hundred team because there was no depth.
(04:59):
So how it plays out in twenty six is going
to be a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
I'm all about the Rara.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
You guys know that, But I want to know John,
how you think that translates into one hundred and sixty
two games and with grown men. So we're talking about college,
We're talking about eighteen to twenty one year old kids.
In football, you're talking about fourteen fifteen games a year.
Now you have grown men making thirty forty million dollars
a year with families in one hundred and sixty two games.
(05:27):
How do you think that translates into baseball?
Speaker 4 (05:29):
In college, you can't say no to the coach, right
because he determines your playing time.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Well, you can get in the transfer portal. So yeah, yeah,
I understand it's.
Speaker 4 (05:38):
Different now, But in the pros, you know, unless you're
an A ball or double A, you can say no, hey,
I'm not going to play today or whatever. And even
Tony LaRussa, the you know, kind of a red ass
manager back in the day. He gave Ricky and Jose
and all these guys leverage to show up, lay or
(06:00):
miss a game. He took care of those guys. So
even the hardest manager is sometimes soft on players. But
in college you don't have to be soft on anybody. Yeah,
you could lose a guy to a transfer portal, but
at Tennessee, I mean, that's kind of a destination college,
so you want to go there, and once you're there,
you better listen to the coach unless you're just a
(06:21):
super superstar and he's going to play regardless. But that's
going to be part of the story how they listened.
Willie Domas Ralfie Devers totally different cultures than a Matt
Chapman who went to college who gets it, who hung
out with Drew Gilbert and thought Drew was cool. Now,
I think Willie did two to an extent. You know,
(06:42):
we just saw him at the tail end of the
season and he was fun to watch, But how's that
going to play? And how's the opposing picture when witnessing
Drew Gilbert and all these antics that are going on,
If they are going on in twenty six, you know,
there's still some Madison Bumgarners out there. And the players
determine that they police the game right, they police They've
(07:03):
always they always had that. It's their game. And what
fans watch, what media watch, is the culmination of what
the players want to do, how they how they want
to police themselves and and and that's always been the thing,
you know, MLB, the commissioner and the umpires, Let the
players play. Let the players police themselves, and we'll see
(07:25):
if that plays.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
John Way, I think the one thing we really learned
about Buster this year, and I maybe we shouldn't have
been surprised knowing Buster Posey as a player, but he's
obviously very willing to go bull, to go against the grain.
The Devers deal obviously huge, nobody saw it come in.
And then the Tony Vtello hire. Did this surprise you though,
(07:51):
even knowing that the Vitello higher And what's the potential
now for something off the wall this offseason given all
the needs they have?
Speaker 4 (08:01):
Yeah, and I think fans are real critical right now,
it's doomsday. But MLB rosters aren't created in one week
like NBA rosters. You know, where Lebron and kd go, Okay,
we're done. We just need two more players and that's it.
And it doesn't work that way in baseball. It's a
four month off season, sometimes longer if it goes into
(08:21):
February and March. So I think it's kind of premature
to say, you know, the Giants aren't doing things right.
Even though the Dodgers and the Diamondbacks and the Padres
all have spent somewhat big so far, the Giants really haven't.
You know, what is it? The pitcher for twenty two,
another picture for one point four, and that's kind of it.
(08:44):
They haven't really done anything except some waiver claims on
the offensive side. And you know, I mean this is
this is a fan base at Selbuster. Right at the
heart of the winter meetings, if not before, signed William
Damas to the biggest contract ever in franchise history, bigger
than his own. And now it's virtually nothing because we
(09:06):
haven't seen any star power, and the free agent pool
of unsigned players is still pretty potent and powerful on
the pitching side, and the hitting side, and they don't
have to go big on guys, they don't have to
spend a lot. But I still wouldn't be surprised if
he if he pulls out a singer between now and
(09:26):
spring training, because that's him, and when you least expect it,
he'll he'll do it. And and good for him, because
that's all the talk will just suddenly go away overnight.
Oh you know it's Greg Johnson not spending. It's Buster
Posey being far anxiety all over again. It's it's Zach
Minaji and you know, not not being all in on
(09:46):
the big big names, especially in the rotation. You know
that all goes away as soon as we see the
final roster.
Speaker 5 (09:53):
I think, go ahead.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Well, I think you gotta be careful in any organization,
said you try to piece the fan base with a
move just to make a move. Yeah, and you have to,
you have to stick to your plan. But you talked
about a singer. What what would be that zinger?
Speaker 1 (10:08):
What what would what? What move would just get us
all excited and and and be a smart move on
top of it.
Speaker 4 (10:17):
Well, if they don't go heavy for you know, the
Veldezes and the Suarez is and the emis Zach Allen
is well, you know, I mean his metrics as advanced
numbers are trending kind of in the wrong direction, which
means he won't be as expensive. I mean trending in
the wrong direction. I think of a Barry Zito when
(10:38):
he went from Oakland to San Francisco, which wasn't good
except for two postseason games over all those years. But
maybe they think they're smart enough to turn Zach Allen
into what he was. But I wouldn't mind seeing a
lower level. And if they're not willing to spend big,
there's still there's still you know, Chris Bassett, right, he's
(10:59):
out there, Lucas Dildo and Harrison Bader in the outfield,
you put him in center and moved Jounghu to right.
You got a much better defensive outfield because he's Gold
Club Gold Glove caliber out there in center, and maybe
a little deeper lineup because he's coming off a career year.
(11:21):
But somebody like that where it's not it's not the
top end guys, and it's it's it's the it's the
fellas in the middle. Who if you're what forty million
dollars away from the tax threshold, and that's what you're
looking at, two hundred and forty two million or whatever.
Then what are they forty forty five million away from
that now on the forty man roster side anyway? For
(11:44):
tax purposes? Then those are the kinds of guys, you know,
Are they zingers? Maybe no, but it's a lot more
depth than they have. Now, what do you guys think?
Speaker 5 (11:54):
Well, I don't.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
I don't think that's a zinger. But I've been kind
of the Cody Bellinger drum a while that he's the
perfect guy for a team that needs both offense and
defense in the outfield, he'd be perfect if he want
to if you want a real big one, and I,
you know, you and I both talked to Greg Johnson
after the season and he told us both sort of
similar thing that they don't really want to spend, you know,
(12:16):
they don't want a lot of nine figure salaries, they
don't want a lot more five six year deals. But
he also indicated that they're pretty comfortable going over the
tax threshold, and he's been pretty consistent with that. Buster
Posey sounded pretty confident that if he takes a deal
to ownership, that makes sense that they'll support him. So
(12:39):
I'm a little confused on a little bit of mixed
messaging maybe from ownership to both you and me. But
I you know, the fact that Buster was able to
talk them into devors last year makes me that I'm
definitely listening to Buster.
Speaker 4 (12:53):
Right, and they can talk all they want behind closed doors,
and the consensus obviously going into that press conference when
when Greg Johnson spoke and thereafter was hey, you know,
we got to kind of watch the purse here. We're
spending all this money on real estate. I mean, the
fans say, who cared? But at the same time, Larry
(13:16):
Bear says, all those investments are going to help the
team hasn't so far, all that money they're making over
on lot A maybe hasn't helped generate more revenue for
all it has, but maybe they haven't spent it on
the payroll yet. But they said it's coming. And it
was funny though, when we were sitting in Buster Suite
Susan first day of the winter meetings and he said
(13:38):
that to us. He said, well, you know, when we said,
you know, Greg Johnson been pretty hard. You know, you
must have some restrictions here, right, He said, well, you know,
love the ownership, love the partnership, and they know and
we know that if we find a special player and
bring it to them that they could budget. They said,
oh okay, so it's not quite there's not like a
(14:00):
Etchton stone line. We can't go over here. So that's
that he really softened what Greg Johnson told us. So
I think that's that's good news for a Giant fans.
So yeah, if they come to one of those top
end free agents still out there from the outfield side
or the pitching side, I mean, they got to be
in it. There's a lot of players left over, and
(14:22):
it's late December and this is going to go into January.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Yeah, yeah, I just I just think you try to
go for winning players and it.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Might not be the sexy move.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Maybe maybe on the pitching side the sexy move works,
But when you talk about the giants of the past,
like the hundred Pences, and I don't want to lump
in Marco Scutero and Cody Ross and Pat Burland.
Speaker 4 (14:42):
Guys like that.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
I want winning players, scrappy players that are going to
try to find a way to beat you, because when
you just like measure it on paper against the Dodgers,
there's not one team in the big leagues that measures
up to that, So how do you compete with a
team like that? And to me, it's about having winning championships,
players that are going to outwork you out, find a
way to beat you out, find a way to scout you,
(15:05):
like whatever it is.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
You just outwork everybody.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
And I know that sounds idealistic, and you got to
have your horses to win, but they already got some horses.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
On this roster. So how do you compete?
Speaker 2 (15:16):
You turn over every stone and you just surround yourself
with like guys that battle and fight and scrap and
claw that find a way to win. And it might
not be the sexy name that we're all looking for.
It might be a handful.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Of guys that you know, hit six, seven, eight nine.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
They're going to fight you every single day and run
up pitch counts and not put up tremendous numbers, but
put up solid numbers, and play great defense, and run
the bases aggressively intelligently, and just play hard every night
and be a reflection of the manager with enthusiasm. And
I think that's why Buster hired Tony Vaytello kind of
out of the box hire back to the.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Original conversation about the raw ros stuff.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
I don't know that it has to be raw row,
but it has to be energy on a daily basis.
It has to be an attitude and a mindset that
we're going to find a way to be every night
even if we're out manned. I mean, that's how they
won three World Series. They weren't the most talented team
in the tournament any one of those years. They were
the hottest team In twenty ten, twelve, I was like, oh,
they're out in the first round, and then they found
(16:13):
a way and fourteen kind of the same thing, but
they had that magical thing going. I don't know if
there's any analytic to measure that, but you know, I
think they're on the right track. I would like to
see some guys like Harrison Vader. He would be my
number one. I don't think he's an everyday guy, but
he's definitely can crush lefties and play a great center
field and be your center fielder in the seventh and
(16:34):
eighth to ninth every inning if you have a lead.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
So that's kind of where I'm going to this.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Remember, as Susan, we talked to Buck last time, and
he's like, you can compete with the big boys if
you out scout them out, prepare them out, attitude them,
outwork them. He said, there's a way to find a
way to.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
Win in this division.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
John, Do you see any way that these guys can
compete in this division right now as it stands as
the Stans.
Speaker 4 (16:55):
No, but again, there's a few months left before opening day.
And everything you described in a player right then was
Willie Damas because you look what he did previously. He
was on winning teams virtually every year, playoff teams virtually
every year, and he was in the heart of that
that roster, the middle of the infield guy, middle of
(17:17):
the lineup guy. And you saw his mannerisms. He was
a bonding guy. He got everyone on the same page.
He was a leader. He plays every day. Matt Chapman
plays every day, and Raffie Devers plays every day. Those
are three core guys who don't just you know, produce,
(17:38):
they strike out, weigh too much, but they show up,
they post, they play every day. Chapman got hurt, so
he didn't win a gold Glove, but he's basically a
gold Glove winner every time he plays one hundred and
fifty games and he usually does. And Devers played one
hundred and sixty three over two teams. It's like Jose
(17:58):
Pagan nineteen six. I think it was the last time
when they played one hundred and sixty five with that
Dodger Giant three game match after one sixty two. But anyway,
it's it's guys like that Vader or whomever Hunter Pens
played one hundred and sixty two. You know, it's guys
like that who who show up every day and play
and are durable and want to be in the lineup,
(18:20):
don't want days off, and Devors might want a day off,
meaning okay, I'll d h once or twice a week.
That's his day off. You know, fine, you know, keep
him off his feet for you know, once or twice
a week so that you know he is healthy over
the whole whole season. But I mean, if you could,
you know, Casey Schmid, is he the answer at second well,
if they find an outfielder, he is. And Zach Susan
(18:43):
told us the other day that for now he's the guy.
You know. They really like what he does and he's
got a great upside. I thought a few years ago
he was going to be the everyday shortstop on this debut.
So good out there in the limited reps I saw,
and you know, his power numbers were playing up, and
you know, again the strikeouts. Wester loves contact. He loved
(19:05):
Dom Smith. You know, they have three first basement if
they sign him and don't trade Bryce Eldridge, which is
another factor. But it just seems that the further we
get into the off season, by the way, it seems,
the more we all believe they're going to keep Eldridge.
Speaker 5 (19:24):
You agree, I don't agree.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
Yeah, I think anything's still on the tip. They just
have so many needs and I you know, the guys
you mentioned they play all the time. They've got great attitudes,
team leader type guys, but they still finished even last year.
Speaker 5 (19:42):
So to me, they need quite.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
A bit more in my opinion, especially offensively and especially
the outfield defense, which was abysmal. And I'm going to
try not to make any current theater jokes when you
talk about the real estates visa vis the Giants and
free agency, but that was a that was an interesting
little purchase that I know has a fan base.
Speaker 4 (20:05):
Is he a righty or a lefty?
Speaker 1 (20:09):
If they just have Hamilton there the whole time. They
can get a lot of players. I feel like.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
Programming is the guy that knows nothing about theater or
Broadway or anything like that.
Speaker 5 (20:23):
I just saw a terrific show there.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
They do the Golden Girls Christmas episodes this time of
year and it was so fun. So's shout shout out,
not just not just going to make fun of the
current theater.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Look at your bench player maybe girls. Yeah, And I mean.
Speaker 4 (20:42):
The giants say they bought it for the betterment of
San Francisco. Okay, that's probably true, but also it's going
to be a revenue source. I mean they're not They're
not silly. They know what they're doing. They invest in
San Francisco for a lot more reasons than the betterment
of the city. It's to make a lot of money.
And pretty much the initial investors of this team back
in ninety three, they were all real estate folks around
(21:04):
town and from Shorenstein and all these investors, all these
in real estate, in the market whatever, you know, they're
smart people. And now we see the offspring of those
folks who are kind of taken over for them, and
they have new investors in but it's still San Francisco
real estate is a big deal.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
The kind of on along the lines of older time
San Francisco. You obviously were my colleague for a very
long time the San Francisco Chronicle, and you wrote so
beautifully about Willie Mace for so long. Your biography of
him is absolutely a must read for any baseball fan.
To me, it's one of the best ever. Also, your
(21:48):
Ricky autobiography is for Asva, It's also a must But
what was going back two years twenty twenty four? Just
how would you describe that year for you personally, because
you worked so hard on that wonderful Road to Rickwood
series in the run up and then obviously Willie Mays
(22:08):
dies in the middle of the run up for that,
and you had known him and been really close friends
with him for quite some time.
Speaker 4 (22:17):
Yeah, that was I tell people every time I see
them in the league, I said, you know, that Rickwood week,
that Rickwood game, that Rickwood event was one of the
best things you guys have ever done. It was masterful
and from the field to the history, to the former
Negro leaguers to honoring May's And the game was on
(22:38):
a Thursday and we lose Willie on the Tuesday. And
it's still stunning because Willy was a guy who always
got up for the big event, you know, whether it's
on the field or some reunion he's invited to at
the ballpark, or his birthday celebration at the ballpark, especially
in his later years when he wasn't getting around very well,
(23:01):
he wasn't seeing well and he was in a chair.
But when the day came, he was ready and he
got his mind and body on target to be there.
So when I got the call Tuesday at about three
o'clock California time, it was stunning because I said, no,
(23:24):
that's not true. Because Willie's events coming in. You know,
it might as well call it the Willy Maids Classic, right,
it was to honor the Negro leagues, but it was
really to honor Mays and and I just couldn't believe it.
I said, no, no, he always gets up for the
big game. This is this is a crank call. And
sure enough we lost Willie just he just you know,
some hard issues. He just stopped breathing. And Dusty Baker
(23:47):
visited him the day before on his way to Birmingham,
and you know, while we all knew he wasn't doing well.
Nobody ever imagined this is going to be the end,
you know, like we know some people we know dearly.
He say, oh, you know, it's probably got a day,
maybe two. But with May's. The doctor even came in
that morning, visited Willie and took some blood, did some
(24:10):
tests and left thinking, okay, he's fine. And one of
the most emotional stories I I've been told about that
those final hours is when the doctor came in to
draw blood. You know, he couldn't he couldn't get a grip.
He couldn't you know, they couldn't find a vein. They couldn't.
They couldn't do it. So Renee Anderson gives Willie Mays,
(24:33):
you know the one thing that you know he's he's
had in his hand a million times, and that's a baseball.
H holds the baseball. Now you can draw blood. And
they went, so it's the last baseball, you know WILLI
ever gripped. And so anyway, you know, I had visited
him six days before he died, just to see him
(24:56):
and say hi, and I kicked myself. I say, hey, Willy,
anything I can get you in Birmingham, like a cap
or a t shirt, and I said, this is Willie Mays.
You can get on the phone and get like dozens
of boxes of hats and T shirts. What am I doing?
Asking to stay in line? We get a little hat
for Willie Mays, No though, I did on his nineth
(25:17):
birthday get him an old BBB baseball cap, like a
profitted uh Birmingham Black Bearn's cap. And I called up Murphy.
I said, what's his size? And you know, it's like
half the size of Bochie and he said, okay, I'm
getting that. So but it was so emotional, and yeah,
(25:39):
that year that was that was a big year in
Giants history because we lost Orlando, we lost Willie, and man,
you know, we honored Willy at the ballpark, then we
honored Orlando at the ballpark. And it's like, you know,
the these these people you see when you're in high school,
growing up as a kid, and then you get the
(26:02):
honor to actually be in the major league clubhouse and
there's Willie over there holding court. And that, Susan was
when in two thousand and Brian Murphy and I came
over from the Examiner and you and Henry Shulman, so
we kind of had two of everything. So Murph became
a golf writer. Henry had the giant speak, you had
the A'SB. And I became national guy. And at that
(26:22):
point I said, Okay, this is I'm going to spend
all my time, you know, just stepping back and writing
about these guys. And May's was always there, right, he
was always there at PI. Every time you were in
the club, you were a giant. You saw Mays, you
saw McCovey, and you went to other. You went to
other You didn't see like Cofacts every day at Dodgers Dadium.
You see Bench every day in Cincinnati, or Ernie Banks
(26:42):
or any Billy Williams every day at Wrigley. But you
saw Mays, McCovey and all these legends. And the first
thing they ever did was visit Murse's office because that's
the one common denominator for all these guys and that's
where they hung out. It was beautiful and those are
memories that never go away.
Speaker 5 (27:00):
That's great stuff, Susan.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
You got anything else? I feel like we should end
it right there. Well, unless you do.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
We did promise some thoughts on Jeff Kent because John
covered Jeff Kent. And then when Jeff Kent went in
to the hall on the off the Veterans Committee, the
Eras Committee. John John asked all the most probing questions
I would say if he had he had Kent and
tears not once, but numerous times, first on the phone
(27:29):
call with writers and then the during the press conference
at the winter meetings.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
So well, he just almost made me cry right now.
So maybe that's his thing.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
He's just like you make people cry, now, John, that's well,
you think about it.
Speaker 4 (27:41):
I went into that press conference thinking, okay, who are
the giants Hall of Famers that spent most of their
time in San Francisco. I mean, you know, we can't
count Steve Carlton or Goose Gossage or or or or
Gary Carter, any of these guys who were one and
done or two and done. And who are the guys
who were there, spent most of their time in San
(28:01):
Francisco and or did their best work in San Francisco. Well,
it's the statues, It's the Five Statues. It's Mays and
Marshall and Perry and and McCovey and and Sapada. So
when I asked him that question, the first question that
or maybe not the first question. But anyway, I said,
I said, Jeff, you know there have been five of
(28:23):
these and they're all statues. You know, May's, McCovey, Cepada, Marshall, Perry,
and now Jeff Kent. What do you think about that?
What do you say to that? And he he just
couldn't talk. He says, I don't belong. He says, there's
no way you can pin me with those guys. So
the more he talked, the more broken up you got.
It was pretty emotional to watch, and nobody was going
(28:45):
to interrupt them. He was on his own out there,
and we never saw that at his locker. He was
always the hard dude, you know, don't get in that
my face. And you had to come with him, just
like Buster, just like Barry, just like a lot of
these guys have Pete. You had to in with your
a game because they were not taking silly questions. And
as a beat writer or whatever, you you got to
(29:07):
read the room. Some of these guys. You know, not
to not to talk about certain TV people, but certain
TV people might come in and ask kind of goofy questions,
but they get away with it. They just want that SoundBite.
As beat writers, you can't do that. You got to
you gotta be serious, and you gotta come with your
A game. And if you didn't have your A game
with Kent, you know, you would walk away with your
(29:29):
tail between your legs. And it's a whoops. I learned
a bad lesson. They're same with Buster, same with Barry.
So there's a common denominator there. You know, all those guys,
all those guys the Buster talks about it now. They
didn't want to be anybody's friends on another team. Kent
didn't want friends, Bons didn't want friends, Bonds didn't want
friends in his own clubhouse. Same with Kent. I remember
(29:51):
one time, Susan, we were back in the nineties, early
two thousands. Kent was on the team, and we knew
Kent was over here and Barry was over there on
all all kinds of issues, and they didn't want their
lockers next to each other. But man, were they good
on the field. So in this restaurant there is a
group of Giants players, you know, JT or really over here,
(30:13):
and then over here is like four or five of
us beat writers. And then I see from the distance,
I see here comes Jeff Kent. This is going to
be fun, what's he going to do? So Kent walks
in the room, you know, checks it out, and does
a beeline right in between us, goes in the back
of the restaurant and eats alone. You know, he didn't.
He didn't want to be with anybody. I mean, that's
(30:33):
just him. He even said as Prescott, I'm not a
social guy. I didn't want to be your friend. You
know I didn't. I didn't laugh, I didn't smile, and
I got pissed off if I went three for four.
You know, I want to go four for four. I
got pissed off if I made an errand. And I'm
still shocked he got in because of Maddie Lee and
Dale Murphy and all these legends. It was a stack ballot,
and I would have I would have been I would
(30:54):
have not been surprised if nobody got in, because they
could have canceled each other out with five or six
votes the peach and you only get three of the
sixteen voting board. So yeah, I'm glad he's in. But
nobody would have ever guessed that he would have gotten
in before Barry Right.
Speaker 5 (31:13):
Nobody would have guessed that.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
Nobody would have guessed that he has a little bit
of a more of an emotional soul. I think that
we gave him credit for too, But yeah, very the
Verry topic is one for probably another time, and well
I guess it'll be six years from now the next
time he's eligible, which those new rules have not been
kind to him.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
We all get soft when we get older. I cry
and everything now, so.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
That that makes sense, John, this is for you and Susan,
and then we'll probably wrap it up after this. Having
your a game that just like piqued my interest? Did
that make you guys better beat writers? Because you had
to have your a game against certain when you're asking
certain questions to certain players.
Speaker 4 (31:51):
Susan, did you have those? Did you have those?
Speaker 1 (31:53):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (31:55):
Well, I mean, honestly, it was mostly those guys that
you mentioned more when I was a backup Kenton, certainly Bonds,
but there were a few others, and again it was
usually mostly the Giants. I don't know if it's maybe
because more high profile team in the Bay Area, but
Bump Bum Garner.
Speaker 5 (32:11):
Was very much like that too.
Speaker 3 (32:12):
I'm mean I had, you know, John, I had such
genial as teams usually you know FP, I mean really
friendly and I do I am a writer who likes
to chit chat with players, and I think that's valuable.
I want to know who guys are. I want to
be able to you know, I want to know a
little bit about your family and a little bit about
your background and just kind of what makes you tick.
And uh, you know, I'm a chit chatter by nature anyway,
(32:36):
So it's tougher for for somebody.
Speaker 5 (32:38):
Like me, with guys who are really tough to crack.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
And only want you know, to you to come up
and ask them sparingly, very good, top notch baseball questions
and nothing else. I feel like you don't get quite
as much inside and some of those guys, I feel
like we don't. Maybe Buster aside, and Buster could be tough,
but but he was always so accommodating, even though he
(33:01):
was he was no nonsense, but he was nothing on
the level of like Bonds and Kent and maybe even
Pau mcgarner.
Speaker 4 (33:08):
And you had so many young teams in Oakland and
other than the Ron Gants and Mike Piazza's and David
Justices and and fellas like that, who Billy being brought
in every other year. But it's it's probably that they
looked up to you to figure out how how was
it like Marcus Simeon, for example, when we voted Marcus
Simeon the Bill Rigney Good Guy Award, And not everybody knows,
(33:31):
but the Beat writers get together every year on the
A side and Giant side and said, okay, let's it's
not a big thing, but it is for us. Okay,
who's our good Guy of the Year Award? And and
you know it's usually someone who's accommodating someone, someone who's
there accountable and you know, good quote you that's what
we're looking for, right, you know, someone we could go
(33:52):
to go to guy. And one year it was Marcus
Simeon in Oakland and and I went up to him afterwards,
I said, you know why I voted for you? He
said why? He said, you know, every time I walk
up to talk to you, you stand up. It's like,
you know, I don't I don't demand anything, but I
(34:12):
acknowledge everything. And I just thought that was that was
really cool. And he said he talked about how his
dad always told him anybody shows up at the room,
you stand up, you shake your hand, and I just
thought it was the coolest thing. Then he said, now,
who is Bill Rigney.
Speaker 5 (34:29):
I said, oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (34:31):
These guys are explained to him how he's a great
executive with the A's and a great manager and Willie's
teammate in New York on the Giant side. So it's
it's cool. I mean some of these, some of these guys,
it's really cool. Like who was it? The Giant set
recently had a guy who won the award and then
(34:52):
went back to the clubhouse and bragged about how he's
the best guy in the team because he's the good
the one good guy in the team.
Speaker 3 (34:57):
Because he has pretty logan is delighted to win that
two years ago as anybody has ever been. But yeah,
he did have some running battles with guys over who
was the best guy from that.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
You guys should have the biggest a Hole award too,
that'd be awesome. And then just let the fans know
that this guy's a jerky and make it public. John,
thanks so much for joining us today. Catch John, Jay
s f Standard. I hope you guys have a merry Christmas. Susan,
thanks for joining us today. It's been John. The stories
were amazing. I mean, this is one of my favorite
(35:31):
ones we've done so far.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
You nailed it. You knocked it out of the park.
We knew you would. So thanks for joining us today.
I hope you have a very merry Christmas.
Speaker 4 (35:38):
Yeah, hey, Susan, you know I love FP. When I
don't know how many years ago, but I'm sitting in
the chronicle chair and FP is to my right, where
like Ron Wotis often wills it, and I look over
and like almost every day he's calling play by play
into a tape recorder, you know, like he's a twelve
year old kid, meaning this guy is serious about his
(36:01):
He's at a certain age and still doing this. He's
not up in the bleachers where nobody could hear him.
I mean he was I was. I told you big
at the time. Is that that's really impressive? I love it?
Do you remember that?
Speaker 1 (36:12):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (36:12):
Thanks John, that worked out real well. I did play
by play for a year and now I'm doing color.
That's saying, that's the hardest thing I've ever done in broadcasting,
is trying to do radio play by play. Yeah that
my vocabulary is not broad enough. There's so much involved
into it. I bit off a little bit more than
I could. You I would probably try to try to
readdress it again sometime in the future because I'm a
(36:34):
little more relaxed now. I was just move back to
San Francisco. Man that I have so much respect for
Dwayne and John and Dave and Joe, Ritzo and everybody
that does play by play on the radio.
Speaker 4 (36:45):
It is.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
It is a lot harder than it looks.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
And we are blessed as Giants fans to have the
broadcasters we have.
Speaker 4 (36:52):
And even though Dwayne doesn't win that award or Mike
doesn't win that award and Joe Buck wins that award,
Giant fans are pulling their hair out. You know, this
guy's a football announcer. He's Joe Buck. He's twenty years
younger than Dwayne. He's his Dad's in there. There's plenty
of time for him to be put in there. I'm thinking,
there's a perfect year for Dwayne and the The problem
is Dwayne's not going to be eligible next year, and
(37:14):
either is Mike because the Hall of Fame every fifth
year considers people before the wildcard era, So next year
is that year. So Mike and Dwyane and all these
other people on the ballot this year are wild cart
era broadcasters. So every fifth year they look back way
(37:35):
way way long ago to honor somebody from the fifties
or forties or whatever. So Dwayne won't be up for
a couple more years, and Barry won't be up till
twenty thirty one. But the class of twenty seven is
going to look big with if everybody gets in, Dusty
and Bochie and Buster, they're all on the ballot to
(37:56):
all the stars are aligning for a big, big party
in Cooperstown in July of twenty seven.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
Well, I'm very biased about Dwayne. I wouldn't be a
big league broadcaster if it.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
Wasn't for him.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
But no other broadcaster on that ballot, and they were
all amazing, And I'm a big Joe Buck fan. No
other broadcaster on that ballot lost his spouse, battled cancer
and still brought his a game on a nightly basis
and realizes how important it is to be the voice
of the San Francisco Giants and what it means and
how lucky he is to be a major league broadcaster.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
So I felt like the ball was dropped on that.
But like I said, I'm biased. All right, guys, we're
wrapping it up.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
Merry Christmas, Susan, Merry Christmas, John, Happy Holidays to everybody
out there. Don't forget to like and subscribe. This is
a really good podcast. We have a great time, and
Merry Christmas.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
To all, and to all a good night.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
Like I say on the way out, every single time,
swing hard in case you hit it.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
President St.
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