August 19, 2025 • 33 mins
This is the second part of Jemele’s interview with sports media personality, Amin Elhassan, who went from having a successful NBA career to becoming a key voice in sports media. Amin shares how he got into the NBA, landed with the Phoenix Suns and eventually left them under difficult circumstances. Amin discusses his experience working with former Suns owner Robert Sarver, who was eventually forced to sell the team after an investigation found he engaged in racist behavior and sexual misconduct in the workplace. Amin also details how he latched on at ESPN, and gives his thoughts on the new-look Lakers with Luka Doncic.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
So how did you get on in Phoenix?
Speaker 2 (00:13):
So I had been I was at ASU. I did
my grad program in the middle.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
ASU.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
I graduated from ASU, and I worked for the Knicks
for a year. I was in like an internship program,
but it was a full time internship. I was working
there sixty seventy hours a week and then at the
end of the internship, they were like they didn't have
any positions, so I had to go back to school.
I went to Issue's grad program for sports business. While
I was there, I got a job with the Suns
(00:42):
and then it was like a sales job at night,
but it was just to get my foot in the door.
And then in the summer team. My first second year,
I had like an internship with this basketball tournament that
was called by Mark West, who was an exec with
the Sons, the former NBA player. Yes, yeah, and so
then Mark helped me get a foot in the door
(01:04):
to get an internship during the second year of my program,
and that's when everything kind of clicked and I met
all these people and people started valuing men. At the
end of that I was a video coordinator and then
it just all kind of started going from there.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
Although you know, looking back, you said that you know,
you didn't necessarily need to be the one that made
the decisions. Don't you think you were selling yourself a
little bit short, because like we see g I mean,
I'm trying to think of.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Massile as the guy.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Right as soon as I saw Massile, I was like,
oh shit, I guess I was wrong, right, But like,
I don't you know even now I look back at it.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
So here's the thing. So there are a bunch of dudes.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Who have been in the league that I'm like, I
fucking remember when you were around the same place. Will
Will Dawkins, the general manager of the of the Wizards,
We started at the same time when I was interning
for the Sun teams with the Spurs, I think, and
then this is what happened. So this is the thing
in the NBA, the number one promotion way happens when
(02:06):
either someone leaves or and you leave with them, or
they left, and now everyone takes a step over, and
so Will.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
Will interned.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
And then when Sam Pressey got the Seattle job, Will
went with Sam to Seattle and he got elevated. And
then when obviously moved to Oklahoma City, and then he
moved up as people left and then eventually Will got
his opportunity, which is right before they went, right after
they right before they won a championship. So I know
he's kind of like feeling like damn. But my Sam
(02:40):
Pressey was David Griffin. So David Griffin at the end
of my first full time year in Phoenix, he was
supposed to get the Memphis job. Jerry West was like,
I'm retiring, and David Griffin was I want to get
the job, and Griff it was his job to take
and he turned it down. But I remember him telling
(03:02):
me like, I think this is going to happen, and
I'm like, I'm researching places to live in Memphis, and
I'm like, but that was gonna be my thing, like
when I move with him, we would move up and
all that stuff. And he didn't end up leaving until
he left to quit, which obviously not going to help
me out in that way. But like I said, I
(03:24):
don't think I ever had the temperament to be a leader.
I'm a really good lieutenant. I've always felt that about myself,
Like I'm really good at being a coppo. I'm not
good at being the godfather. Because I think there's a
certain temperament and countenance.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
You need to have.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
A patience, a way to know when to go hard
and when to put an arm around me. And I'm
not those meters are not good for me. I'm better
at like spreading someone else's gospel.
Speaker 4 (03:54):
So you would have been in Phoenix if if I
have the years right, what D'Antoni?
Speaker 1 (04:01):
Look, did you did you get a little bit of.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Alvin Gentry D'Antoni, Alvin Gentry Terry Porter. Yeah, so I left.
Alvin was was the head coach there when I left.
Then players was Steve Nash, Grant Hill, Shaquille O'Neill, a Myristodemayer,
Shan Mary and Leander Barbosa bors Dl and then obviously
(04:28):
Steve Kerr in the front office, David Griffin in the
front office. I think I counted. I think this year
this is gonna sound wild when I say this.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
This year was.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
The first NBA Finals that hasn't featured a a person
that I worked with or a player that I worked.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
With since I left. I left in twenty twelve.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Every single year in the Finals there has been at least,
if not more, someone I worked with as either as
a player or in the front office all the way.
So many of my friends have gone on to win championships,
and I was just.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
Like, I just just if I could have hold on
a little bit longer.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Well, I mean you still in Phoenix. You saw a
ton of success.
Speaker 4 (05:13):
I mean those teams are winning fifty five sixty games. Yeah,
you know, Nash winning MVPs. Clearly everybody knows the history
of how they missed out on actually making the finals,
which you know, onto itself almost deserves its own thirty
for thirty, but you know, during that time where they're
at the pinnacle and at the top of the success, Like,
(05:35):
what was that like to be a part of something
like that.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
So I this is my third NBA team working for,
and the other two were terrible. It was the Hawks
in the early two thousands, and it was the Knicks
the Knicks the year before the like the events of
the sexual arrassment lawsuit were from the season that I
worked there. So that was a weird thing to watch
(06:00):
something on the news and be like that happened. That
didn't happen. That happened, that didn't happen like that. But
to get to Phoenix, that was my first time working
for No we win more games than we lose, let alone,
we might win a championship.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
So that was really eye opening.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
But number two, the big thing was like it was
all predicated around like happiness and caring about one another.
And that was that was a Jerry Colangelo thing that
you have to care about the people that work there.
And and so David Griffin and Steve Kerr they did
a great job of fostering that and development. Right, they
(06:43):
taught me things and I was like, why are you
teaching because one day it's going to be your job.
You gotta this is when we assigned someone to g league.
You gotta send this facts to the league, and you
gotta do this, and like all these logistical things because
they were preparing me for a bigger position I was in.
They cared about me as a person, in my development
and so all of those things. That was kind of
(07:05):
like an investment that I got some here and there
sprinkled some people with the nick some people with the Hawks,
but like as something formal to make me better. This
is the mission here is to make you better. I
hadn't experienced anything like that. And then in terms of
what it's like, I mean, you were the most popular
one of the most popular teams in the league because
we play a fun style. We got the MVP, we
(07:28):
got a Marstodemer who dunks on everybody who doesn't love that,
and then we got Shaquille O'Neal and then that's like,
oh shit, like this is what this is what the
Beatles is like where it's like you get to the
hotel and.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
There's how do these people even know where we're staying.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
It's just a sea of people and like they have
to carve out a path to get into the hotel.
It was cool, and I think for me it was
incredibly beneficial because I was around so many people who
were willing to share.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
I learned so much.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Every time I see Shaq or Grant Hill or Steve
alwis something thank you.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
You don't even know it, but like me being around.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Y'all let me learn so much that it's given me
the job that I have now. So I got to
wit I was not and I don't know if you
know this, I wasn't an All Star Hall of Fame
player in my day, but I got to see how
they do and kind of learn from the way they
approach things. And it's not just those guys. It's the
portsiouse Rojah Bell. Roger Bell is like my big brother.
(08:29):
He was my VET when I was a rookie with
the Sons. He took me under his wing Leando Barbosa,
like those guys, kind of the middle of the road
guys and how who all came from different ways.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
Someone were drafted.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Roger was an undrafted free agent who bounced around the
league and kind of learning their stuff. And then the
ogs like Mark West, like John Shuema got rest of soul,
who was on that Notre Dame team that broke the
eighty eight game UCLA winning streak and was a top
five pick, but then he had blood clots and his
career was ended prematurely. But working with all these guys
(09:01):
that were generous with their time and generous with their stories,
it made me so much better. And it's like, well,
that's why I always think about those first four years
in Phoenixes the best, because we were at the center
of the basketball universe and I was learning not only
from Hall of famers, but from the people the architects
of the way the game is played now when everyone's
(09:23):
playing this style, like we were the ones that invented
that pretty much.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
And unfortunately the end was unceremonious to say the least.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
I mean, for you're just decleared up for people.
Speaker 4 (09:38):
You had alluded to a sexual ractsman lawsuit, not involving yourself.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
Just so people understand.
Speaker 4 (09:43):
The former owner of the Sons, Robert Sarver, heh yeah,
he a lot of allegations against him, sexual misconduct, misogyny, racism,
all the things happened, and he was fine. I think
it was ten million dollars, was like the biggest fine
in NBA history.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Eventually forced to sellotate.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
That's why I met is now the owner and all
of this was happening.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
You want to hear what's crazy?
Speaker 2 (10:09):
What the sexual harassment loss that I was talking about
was one with the Knicks.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
But yeah, harassment. So I'm two for two. But if
all times not me, but both.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Times, maybe you're the kiss of death.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
That's maybe you're the problem, right, Like, well, sexual harassment
lawsuits follow you.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
Maybe you're the problem.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
So you're talking about the Isaiah Thomas Isaiah Thomas one,
I was. I was there for the events, I guess
technically for the Sarber when I was there for a
lot of the event man, there was like, that's the
funny thing.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
There's stories that like I read the Baxter.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Holmes piece and the findings by the by the Law
the Legal Firm, and I was like, man, some of
these stories, y'all got a watered down version of like
that did not happened.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
A lot more, a lot worse, a lot worse. This
is what I'll say about Robert, and it's gonna sound weird.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
I think Robert is just someone who's socially inept and
doesn't have the patience to like want to learn how
to be not socially a net. So a lot of
the stuff, not all of it. Some of this stuff,
obviously is it's all reprehensible. Some of the stuff I think, yeah,
that's that's the kind of person he is. But some
(11:24):
of the stuff I was like, yeah, that happened. It's
not because he's like a raging like misogynists. I think
he's just a dumb ass and a lot of this
stuff and dumb asses behave in a way that they
think is going to impress people, particularly like oh, these
young black rich athletes that think it's cool that I'm
(11:45):
doing this, and like, now, so I'll give you a
great example the way he talked about Oh man, I
don't know, the way he would talk about his wife
around the team.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Which was incredibly awkward.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Let me just make it clear that no one on
the team was like, Yeah, that guy's cool.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
Everyone was like what the fuck was that?
Speaker 2 (12:04):
But I really think in his mind that's like, oh,
locker room talk. The guys will really appreciate all talking
about this. You know, you talking about some broad you
bang last night, Well let me tell you about this.
Wait a se you talking about your wife.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
It's like yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
But so it was like one of those things like
the guy was trying too hard. Some of the stuff
obviously it wasn't a guy trying too hard.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
It's just.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Your your guard variety racism, misogyny. But some of the
stuff I think that came out that sounded really terrible.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
I'm like, it wasn't. It wasn't.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
I don't think that was his intention in that moment.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
Did you ever were you ever around him and you
feel like I.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Might be a racist? Fuck? Yeah, jesus, it's like was
it you?
Speaker 3 (12:50):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (12:50):
No, this wasn't. No, Yeah, like it was, it wasn't.
Donald Sterling is what I'll say.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
It's not Donald Sterling zero to Donald's starting. No, he
not Donald Sterling. But also he's not He's not JJ Reddick, right,
he's not like the cool white guy.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
Absolutely not.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
So it meane you left in twenty twelve, Yeah, and
did you think that that was it for you? Like
in terms of the NBA, Like what like what was
your thought process do the ESPN?
Speaker 3 (13:25):
I left.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
I actually left and went like I was like the
hell with this, Like it'd been loggerheads with the new
management for two years.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
I'm like, this ain't working.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
And they weren't enamored by me either, because I think
they felt like I put a lot of salt in
the things that they wanted to do that were dumb
ideas and retrospect definitely dumb ideas that I saved them from.
But they didn't like having a dissenting voice in the room.
So we split ways and I went to go work
for Warren Legarry.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
At Summer League.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Warren Legary at the time owned Summer League, but all
so he's one of the most powerful agents for front
office types and coaches and stuff like that, and so
Warren was going to help me kind of get placed
somewhere else, and so I worked for him at Summer League,
and long story short, it didn't work out, and at
(14:18):
the end of Summer League I ran into Henry Abbott.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
If you remember Henry the.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
True Hoop Yep, we started the True Hoop franchise.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Yeah, And so at this point, Henry's at ESPN, and
Henry had been asked me for years. I've known Henry
for like three years or actually more than that. I didn't
known Henry at that point for like seven years, and
he'd always want me to come do his podcast or
do a show, and I can't.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
They don't let us talk.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Nowadays, it's different, every video coordinator intern talking to every newsbreaker,
but back then, we didn't talk to media like that.
So when he saw me Atummer League, it's like, what
are you doing, I'm like, well, I'm kind of in between.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
I'm looking for something, and he's like, well, can you
do the show now? And I'm like sure, And I thought.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Like one of these teams i'm talking to might see
it and be like, oh, he's pretty good, let's bring
them in, and we end up having with some of
the ESPN saw it and asked does he want to
do this. We need someone who can write from a
front office perspective because we got players and we got coaches.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
We don't have to fun office people.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
And Henry asked me, and the only way I can
describe it, Jamal, is like if someone came from NASA
right now said hey, you want to be asked naut
never thought about it a second, but it sounds cool.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
I ain't doing that. I'm not doing anything, so let's
do it.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
And so what started as like a trial basis, I
would write and they would pay me freelance per piece.
Then it turned into we'll pay you up front and
you deliver this many pieces. Then I got my first
full time deal. And when I got that, they said
it was a three year deal, and they said at
the end of the third year, you might be doing
some television. And six months later I was doing Sports Center.
(15:43):
And never had any training or anything like that, never
had any aspiration of doing it, but found out, oh shit,
I'm actually pretty good at this.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
And the rest, as they say, is history.
Speaker 4 (15:53):
So you, as you see in sports media, the way
that the NBA talked about has changedquite and sometimes not
always in good ways. But what do you make of
how sports media, And if you want to just we'll
just say ESPN because I mean, we both know having
both worked there. The ESPN drives so much of how people.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
Feel about things.
Speaker 4 (16:16):
They drive sports covers, they drive like how other people
cover things. You know, NBA conversations just aren't that fun.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Anymore, you know.
Speaker 4 (16:26):
And so what do you see as what has gone
wrong and how the NBA is currently discussed?
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Well, I think, first and foremost, I put a lot
of responsibility with Adam Silver and the Commissioner's office. They're
the ones who sell the rights to different rights holders.
They're the ones who have the power and control to
let the rights holders know how they want their sport cover.
I know this because we know the NFL does this.
I know what Roger Goodell does. I know how people
(16:53):
talk about football, and it's not like how we talk
about basketball. Number two that and maybe it's because of this,
or maybe this is just coincidentally, but obviously doesn't help
the basketball, I feel like, is the only sport where
we're arguing about ghosts. I never heard anybody say Patrick
(17:17):
Mahomes was cool but he ain't.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
No Joe Namath.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
I never heard anyone say show hey, Tony's amazing, but
come on now, Derek Jeter has him beat by, Like,
we don't do these comparisons in the other sports. We
respect the people came in the past. We respect the
people who are playing right now. We don't sit around
wondering whether the nineteen eighty Islanders would hand the Florida
(17:42):
Panthers that nobody cares. In basketball, for some reason, this
dominates our conversation and any achievement is always put in, well, Mike,
what did Michael do?
Speaker 3 (17:53):
What did Magic do what?
Speaker 2 (17:54):
And it's just it cheapens the enjoyment of what we're seeing.
It's a two way street. By the way, it goes
the opposite of people say, oh my god, if you
put Michael Porter junior in the eighties, he would have
been won seven MVPs. I'm like, like, they don't do that.
They don't do the going back to the future either
in the other sports, and we'd go back both ways,
(18:16):
and it's toxic. And to me, podcasts are podcasts. We
don't have control over podcasts, Instagram accounts, YouTube influencers.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
As a sport, we don't have control over that.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
But when ESPN and then Turner at the time and now.
I hope we don't have this with NBC and Amazon.
When you're part of this, that's the part where the
sport can step in and say I'm not you not
you have to you have to talk about our shit
smart the way they do on NFL Live right or
(18:49):
on Baseball Tonight. You don't talk about our ship with
our lowest common denominator arguments. That's for the Internet. I
don't give them how many clicks they got. I'm like,
that's not your metric here. Your metric is me me.
I'm the one who sold it to you under the
guidance that you're going to talk about it in this way.
And I think the NBA is a little too enamored
(19:09):
with being popular online because that is one day TV
will be done and everything will be online. And that's
their take is like we'll be the first ones there.
But to me, it comes at a detriment when you
allow the deterioration of the product.
Speaker 4 (19:24):
The thing is, I don't even think Roger Goodell had
to tell players that is that there is just this
understood you know what they say? What what's you know?
What's understood need not be said? And I don't even
know that Roger Goodell or any NFL office actually had
to say to Michael Strahan or Terry Bradshaw or any
of the guys that you see on the pregame shows,
(19:47):
like hey, let's let's celebrate this sport as opposed to
talking about everything that's.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
Wrong with it.
Speaker 4 (19:53):
And I know a lot of people have really come
from come from inside the NBA, come for them rather
and saying that like a these guys getting up there
sometimes and be like this player is awful.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
They're like, I'll be clear, I don't have a problem
with them saying someone's terrible. I have a problem. I
have a problem when it's oh, man, like the game
is terrible.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
Now. I don't like that.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
I don't like when and I told Charles this, I
don't like when he says and he's like, what do
you want me to say?
Speaker 3 (20:25):
I'm like, I don't want you to say that.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
You can criticize individuals when you criticize the game as
a whole.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
Because the reality there's two things.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Number one is the shit that y'all remember ain't as
awesome as you think it was.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
Go back NBA TV during the summer they play the
classic games.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Go back and watch them. Anyone could do the Instagram
highlight reel. You see all the Michael Jordan's you can
watch to come fly with Me tape. It looks amazing. Now,
trust me, that shit lives up. It holds up. But
what doesn't hold up is like watching Knicks Pacers from
ninety four, the Regi Miller twenty five point game in
the four quarter. I WoT me and Zach Harper were
doing radio Live Radio one summer and that game was
(21:04):
on him. We're like, let's just fuck, let's just watch this,
and it was like it was comical. Reggi Mian at
one point had like sixteen points in the fourth quarter.
The Knicks the best defense, the baddest defense ever. They're
coming in transition. Antonio Davis is bringing the ball up
and AD's my guy, I love you a d but
they jumped on him like, oh we got a sop ball.
They left Reggie millerwido, he's got sixteen in the quarter.
(21:25):
He's got sixteen in the quarter.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
What are we doing? This is the best defense ever.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Old they used to play defense back and then they're
leaving a dude who has sixteen in the quarter in
the fourth wide open and this is not like I say,
it was routine play after play out, like what are
you doing?
Speaker 3 (21:42):
Why are you making that decision? It was just uncanny
how poor the decision making was.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Or or I'll take a stept brother going to like
two thousand and I think it was like Piston's Magic
two thousand and three, two thousand and four, the.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
Tracy McGrady when they were up three to one.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
Yeahyeah, yeah, yeah, they took they took my boys words
out of context, but the team back.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
I got your back, Like I think.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
That was the first NBA series I covered, was that one?
Speaker 3 (22:07):
Oh yeah, oh wow? Or were you in Orlando? You
in Orlando? Right? Uh no, not yet.
Speaker 4 (22:12):
I was working for the Detroit Free Press got it,
And so I was the I was the backup during
the playoffs for the business main beat writer, So my
responsibility was covering the Piston's opponent. So I spent most
of my time covering the Magic end of that series, right,
So I was there when he said it.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
So so, but it was like there's a game was
like seventy nine to seventy four, like, and I'm watching
this game and I'm like, god, damn man, like this
is not good product.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
Like nobody, nobody wants to see.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
Like I'm watching Tracy McGrady, I want to see Tracy
mcgady do Tracy McGrady shit. I don't want to watch
him get wrapped up by you know whoever, not Tejon Prince,
but like someone like some one of those guys. I
don't want to see that much. In the same way
I don't want I want to see Eldon Campbell take
eighteen foot jumpers like I just.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Or I guess that would be the thing, but.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Well, but we asked him to take three to get
out of the way so that like the guys actually
do stuff can go to work. I don't want to
see Tyrone Hill hit a fifteen foot jumper, right, I
want him out of the way so I.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Could see Alan Iverson do Allen Iverson stuff.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
And so that's part of it, like your memory of
what the game was is not as nearly as entertaining
as you remember it to be. And then the other
part of it is guys are playing under the rules
of the game today, So oh, man, like you just
let that guy go by, yeah, because I can't grab.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
Him like you can. I can't. I'm not allowed to.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
We're gonna sen him to the free throw line, so
I gotta I gotta guard him like this basically my
hands back or whatever.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
So it makes look the game is different.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
You just have to accept this different and they're doing
the best they can under the current circumstances. And when
you don't acknowledge that, I think you're doing a disservice
to your viewing public.
Speaker 4 (24:01):
So you know, with that being said, Like another topic
is how this idea of rings being the sole focused
of how people judge greatness. I'm not really sure where
that came from, but I think that's probably another annoying
layer to how the game is talked about. It's like,
(24:21):
unless you want a reinnuation, it's kind of like what like,
there's a lot I don't think people appreciate how very
hard it is to win a NBA title, Like ninety
nine percent of the players are not in a position
to win one.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
I mean, it's just kind of what it is.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
And so Jamel, like you and I were growing up
in an arrow where and they said who's the best
power for it in the game, And it was one
of two names over the two names, do you remember.
Speaker 4 (24:48):
Oh, it was Karl Malone Dam alone or Barkley.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Anyone else's secondary Malana Barkley. That was the conversation all
the way up until like your two thousand, who's the
best power in the game, Malona Bart till Tim Duncan,
till Tim Duncan, and then all of a sudden, it's like,
but even then it was Tim Duncan. It was them
even recognizing in the moment, this fucker's good, right, it
was his play. It was everything about him on both
(25:15):
ends of the floor that made people bend the knee.
Obviously he wins a title ninety nine and then you
went a second and then all of a sudden, you
got five. It makes it easy to go, yeah, he's
the best powerful because he has five rings. Like no,
they figured that shit out before he really got into
winning rings. But the reality was before him, it was
two guys that never won a championship who were This
(25:36):
was the apex of the sport. And you know, it's
it's crazy now that we are in a place where look,
I know, I get it.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
We're all trying to win. That's the that's the goal.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
The goal is to win, but to behave as though
that is the sole difference between success and failure in
this case, it's kind of ridiculous. And again it's it's
all depending on like who's crafting the messaging, right, And
this original messaging started really around Michael Jordan. So Michael
(26:14):
Jordan's better than magic a bird. Why because he's got
six magics, got five birds.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
Got three.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
And then from there, if you grow up in the
church of Michael Jordan, you worship at that altar.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
Now that's the lens that you see it in.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
It's like, I've got to be the best scorer and
I've got to win more championships than anyone else.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
And from this church comes Kobe Bryant.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
And so now Kobe Bryant is carrying this, but it's
it's an exaggerated version of what Jordan's thing was because
like Jordan, Yes, he took all these shots. Whatever Jordan
shot like an insane percentage in mid range, like you
shot like like the tracking numbers from like the ninety
seven season, ninety in the fifty percent.
Speaker 3 (26:57):
Range from the mid range.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
But he took a lot of them, but he made
him Kobe took a lot of them, made a lot
percentage wise not so great. But it's still like but
this is the apex, I take the last shot, and
I'm the man, and da da da, and also I
got five rings. And so now you have this whole
generation of people coming up believing that's the religion, right,
(27:21):
And so then we get to this stage right now
where it's like, yeah, rings are everything, because if it's
not for the rings, and how else are we supposed
to measure?
Speaker 3 (27:30):
But we know it's it's ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
Like the people that ask would you rather ask Robert Rorriy,
would you rather have your career Charles Brockley's career, And
he said, hell, he had to want Charles Brocky's career.
It was beyond money. It's like it's knowing how good
he was. It's knowing like seven rings is amazing. Sure,
but let me tell you something, seven rings ain't in
school as knowing I own this shit.
Speaker 4 (27:51):
And knowing too, you were the best player in the league.
When Michael Jortan played Michael Jordan, he'll talk about Karl
Malone with an at IMVP.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
He never talked about Barkley winning the MVP that he
won because Barkley was by far. I mean, I can't
say by far because it's still Michael Jordan. But he
he was the best player.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
He was the best player that year, the best player,
and and and it's not just the best player in
terms of I was recognized as such. It's the knowledge
on a nightly basis, I control this ship. This whole
thing happens at my whim. Like that's a power level
on a basketball court. When you know I'm playing with
(28:30):
and against nine of the other greatest players on the
planet and clearly I'm the best one.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
That's a feeling that you can't replace with one hundred drinks.
Speaker 4 (28:42):
One more basketball question, I mean before I get to
the final question, which is I'm just setting up an
alub for you in this final in the final question.
But one more basketball question first, and that is, how
do you think things in between Lebron and the Lakers?
Speaker 1 (28:56):
You think they in You think they end with him retiring?
Speaker 3 (28:59):
No, I think the end amicable.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
The contract expires, he leaves, he goes somewhere else, you.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
Get one more move in him.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Yeah, I think. I don't think he gets traded. I
don't think he gets bought out. I think he will
play out the year and then regardless of what happens,
he'll leave, He'll go somewhere else and then.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
That's wherever that is, that'll be the last chapter.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
Maybe I'm just a moron, but I don't think that he.
Speaker 4 (29:25):
Will and I think he'll stay because I do think
it's a different scenario when you leave the Lakers. Now,
of course, we know crazy things happen, crazy things happen
in the NBA.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Like next thing you know him is Steph for like
we're gonna give it a run.
Speaker 4 (29:40):
I'm like, all right, I understand why you would why
you would leave for that, right or some situation where
it's like, okay, this is really set up for him
to win. But also you know, I also think about
his age and like how much he loves being in
LA And I'm like, I don't, do you have one
of one more of those in you, like one of
one of those like college tries.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
We're gonna make this work.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
I'll give you three three places number one not in
any order, but first place I'll talk about is Golden
State because of playing with Steph, and I think that
Olympic Yeah, but I think that Olympic experience really, like
when you think about if you if you're a you're
a basketball genius and to play with another genius whose
(30:26):
game compliments you, because lucas a genius, but it was like,
not not a great fit. That's the perfect fit to
have basketball to be that easy for the like probably
for the first time on the Bronze life.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
It's never been that easy, Like, oh my god.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
I think there's a part of that that would tantalize
him to play with that guy in that system. Second place,
I would say, or second location I would say, is
Cleveland use symmetry just because of the symmetry that's I
mean you're saying when you're saying where he would pick
up right, Like I don't.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
I don't see him going to Utah or whatever.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
I think, hey, we got a shot, we're right.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
Or even like Dallas, I don't.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
I think Dallas is just too much right to process,
whereas Cleveland it's like it's home and all that stuff,
and you got the symmetry there and then number three
and everyone will call me crazy, but we do live
in a rings culture society. And I have said time
and time again, if you win one in New York,
it's worth a thousand. So with thousand, Jamel, listen to me,
(31:31):
He'll never He'll never win six and even if he
wins six, he'll never be six for six. But you
win one in New York worth a thousand because not
only does everyone recognize the degree difficulty of doing it
in that in that city and that building with that ownership, right,
but more than that, where are most of the media
(31:52):
centered out of They will write the salt, They will
write the ballads for you. You don't even have to
do nothing. You don't even have to spin it. They'll
do the spin for you. Because at the end of
the day, and we saw man Dayalen Brunson goes to
the conference finals and they're already doing like, is he
the most popular nick of all time?
Speaker 3 (32:10):
He went to one conference final? You think Lebron wins.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
A title, they're not going to tell us that he's
the greatest player in any sport ever, ever, forever, like
in the future, in the past or whatever. I'm not look.
Degree of difficulty is high. But you get it done. There,
this Jordan Lebron conversation done.
Speaker 4 (32:29):
Yeah, the hater in me is just going to actively
root against them.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
Of course, No, we don't want we want to see
the Knicks fail. I want to see the Knicks fail.
Of course, I want to see the worst version of that.
But I accept if he That's why I accept if
he gets it done.
Speaker 3 (32:46):
Shit, man, like you really are good.
Speaker 4 (32:49):
I mean, after that, there is no argument really to
probably be made against that.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
All right, all right.
Speaker 4 (33:01):
I hope you enjoyed the second part of this interview
with Amin al Hassan if you missed the first part,
that is also available on iHeart Apple Podcasts or wherever
you get your podcasts. Thank you for listening to this
bonus episode of Spolitics, and make sure you check for
Spoloitics every Thursday when a new episode drops.
So how did you get on in Phoenix?
Speaker 2 (00:13):
So I had been I was at ASU. I did
my grad program in the middle.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
ASU.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
I graduated from ASU, and I worked for the Knicks
for a year. I was in like an internship program,
but it was a full time internship. I was working
there sixty seventy hours a week and then at the
end of the internship, they were like they didn't have
any positions, so I had to go back to school.
I went to Issue's grad program for sports business. While
I was there, I got a job with the Suns
(00:42):
and then it was like a sales job at night,
but it was just to get my foot in the door.
And then in the summer team. My first second year,
I had like an internship with this basketball tournament that
was called by Mark West, who was an exec with
the Sons, the former NBA player. Yes, yeah, and so
then Mark helped me get a foot in the door
(01:04):
to get an internship during the second year of my program,
and that's when everything kind of clicked and I met
all these people and people started valuing men. At the
end of that I was a video coordinator and then
it just all kind of started going from there.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
Although you know, looking back, you said that you know,
you didn't necessarily need to be the one that made
the decisions. Don't you think you were selling yourself a
little bit short, because like we see g I mean,
I'm trying to think of.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Massile as the guy.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Right as soon as I saw Massile, I was like,
oh shit, I guess I was wrong, right, But like,
I don't you know even now I look back at it.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
So here's the thing. So there are a bunch of dudes.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Who have been in the league that I'm like, I
fucking remember when you were around the same place. Will
Will Dawkins, the general manager of the of the Wizards,
We started at the same time when I was interning
for the Sun teams with the Spurs, I think, and
then this is what happened. So this is the thing
in the NBA, the number one promotion way happens when
(02:06):
either someone leaves or and you leave with them, or
they left, and now everyone takes a step over, and
so Will.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
Will interned.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
And then when Sam Pressey got the Seattle job, Will
went with Sam to Seattle and he got elevated. And
then when obviously moved to Oklahoma City, and then he
moved up as people left and then eventually Will got
his opportunity, which is right before they went, right after
they right before they won a championship. So I know
he's kind of like feeling like damn. But my Sam
(02:40):
Pressey was David Griffin. So David Griffin at the end
of my first full time year in Phoenix, he was
supposed to get the Memphis job. Jerry West was like,
I'm retiring, and David Griffin was I want to get
the job, and Griff it was his job to take
and he turned it down. But I remember him telling
(03:02):
me like, I think this is going to happen, and
I'm like, I'm researching places to live in Memphis, and
I'm like, but that was gonna be my thing, like
when I move with him, we would move up and
all that stuff. And he didn't end up leaving until
he left to quit, which obviously not going to help
me out in that way. But like I said, I
(03:24):
don't think I ever had the temperament to be a leader.
I'm a really good lieutenant. I've always felt that about myself,
Like I'm really good at being a coppo. I'm not
good at being the godfather. Because I think there's a
certain temperament and countenance.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
You need to have.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
A patience, a way to know when to go hard
and when to put an arm around me. And I'm
not those meters are not good for me. I'm better
at like spreading someone else's gospel.
Speaker 4 (03:54):
So you would have been in Phoenix if if I
have the years right, what D'Antoni?
Speaker 1 (04:01):
Look, did you did you get a little bit of.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Alvin Gentry D'Antoni, Alvin Gentry Terry Porter. Yeah, so I left.
Alvin was was the head coach there when I left.
Then players was Steve Nash, Grant Hill, Shaquille O'Neill, a Myristodemayer,
Shan Mary and Leander Barbosa bors Dl and then obviously
(04:28):
Steve Kerr in the front office, David Griffin in the
front office. I think I counted. I think this year
this is gonna sound wild when I say this.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
This year was.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
The first NBA Finals that hasn't featured a a person
that I worked with or a player that I worked.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
With since I left. I left in twenty twelve.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Every single year in the Finals there has been at least,
if not more, someone I worked with as either as
a player or in the front office all the way.
So many of my friends have gone on to win championships,
and I was just.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
Like, I just just if I could have hold on
a little bit longer.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Well, I mean you still in Phoenix. You saw a
ton of success.
Speaker 4 (05:13):
I mean those teams are winning fifty five sixty games. Yeah,
you know, Nash winning MVPs. Clearly everybody knows the history
of how they missed out on actually making the finals,
which you know, onto itself almost deserves its own thirty
for thirty, but you know, during that time where they're
at the pinnacle and at the top of the success, Like,
(05:35):
what was that like to be a part of something
like that.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
So I this is my third NBA team working for,
and the other two were terrible. It was the Hawks
in the early two thousands, and it was the Knicks
the Knicks the year before the like the events of
the sexual arrassment lawsuit were from the season that I
worked there. So that was a weird thing to watch
(06:00):
something on the news and be like that happened. That
didn't happen. That happened, that didn't happen like that. But
to get to Phoenix, that was my first time working
for No we win more games than we lose, let alone,
we might win a championship.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
So that was really eye opening.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
But number two, the big thing was like it was
all predicated around like happiness and caring about one another.
And that was that was a Jerry Colangelo thing that
you have to care about the people that work there.
And and so David Griffin and Steve Kerr they did
a great job of fostering that and development. Right, they
(06:43):
taught me things and I was like, why are you
teaching because one day it's going to be your job.
You gotta this is when we assigned someone to g league.
You gotta send this facts to the league, and you
gotta do this, and like all these logistical things because
they were preparing me for a bigger position I was in.
They cared about me as a person, in my development
and so all of those things. That was kind of
(07:05):
like an investment that I got some here and there
sprinkled some people with the nick some people with the Hawks,
but like as something formal to make me better. This
is the mission here is to make you better. I
hadn't experienced anything like that. And then in terms of
what it's like, I mean, you were the most popular
one of the most popular teams in the league because
we play a fun style. We got the MVP, we
(07:28):
got a Marstodemer who dunks on everybody who doesn't love that,
and then we got Shaquille O'Neal and then that's like,
oh shit, like this is what this is what the
Beatles is like where it's like you get to the
hotel and.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
There's how do these people even know where we're staying.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
It's just a sea of people and like they have
to carve out a path to get into the hotel.
It was cool, and I think for me it was
incredibly beneficial because I was around so many people who
were willing to share.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
I learned so much.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Every time I see Shaq or Grant Hill or Steve
alwis something thank you.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
You don't even know it, but like me being around.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Y'all let me learn so much that it's given me
the job that I have now. So I got to
wit I was not and I don't know if you
know this, I wasn't an All Star Hall of Fame
player in my day, but I got to see how
they do and kind of learn from the way they
approach things. And it's not just those guys. It's the
portsiouse Rojah Bell. Roger Bell is like my big brother.
(08:29):
He was my VET when I was a rookie with
the Sons. He took me under his wing Leando Barbosa,
like those guys, kind of the middle of the road
guys and how who all came from different ways.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
Someone were drafted.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Roger was an undrafted free agent who bounced around the
league and kind of learning their stuff. And then the
ogs like Mark West, like John Shuema got rest of soul,
who was on that Notre Dame team that broke the
eighty eight game UCLA winning streak and was a top
five pick, but then he had blood clots and his
career was ended prematurely. But working with all these guys
(09:01):
that were generous with their time and generous with their stories,
it made me so much better. And it's like, well,
that's why I always think about those first four years
in Phoenixes the best, because we were at the center
of the basketball universe and I was learning not only
from Hall of famers, but from the people the architects
of the way the game is played now when everyone's
(09:23):
playing this style, like we were the ones that invented
that pretty much.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
And unfortunately the end was unceremonious to say the least.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
I mean, for you're just decleared up for people.
Speaker 4 (09:38):
You had alluded to a sexual ractsman lawsuit, not involving yourself.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
Just so people understand.
Speaker 4 (09:43):
The former owner of the Sons, Robert Sarver, heh yeah,
he a lot of allegations against him, sexual misconduct, misogyny, racism,
all the things happened, and he was fine. I think
it was ten million dollars, was like the biggest fine
in NBA history.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Eventually forced to sellotate.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
That's why I met is now the owner and all
of this was happening.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
You want to hear what's crazy?
Speaker 2 (10:09):
What the sexual harassment loss that I was talking about
was one with the Knicks.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
But yeah, harassment. So I'm two for two. But if
all times not me, but both.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Times, maybe you're the kiss of death.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
That's maybe you're the problem, right, Like, well, sexual harassment
lawsuits follow you.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
Maybe you're the problem.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
So you're talking about the Isaiah Thomas Isaiah Thomas one,
I was. I was there for the events, I guess
technically for the Sarber when I was there for a
lot of the event man, there was like, that's the
funny thing.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
There's stories that like I read the Baxter.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Holmes piece and the findings by the by the Law
the Legal Firm, and I was like, man, some of
these stories, y'all got a watered down version of like
that did not happened.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
A lot more, a lot worse, a lot worse. This
is what I'll say about Robert, and it's gonna sound weird.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
I think Robert is just someone who's socially inept and
doesn't have the patience to like want to learn how
to be not socially a net. So a lot of
the stuff, not all of it. Some of this stuff,
obviously is it's all reprehensible. Some of the stuff I think, yeah,
that's that's the kind of person he is. But some
(11:24):
of the stuff I was like, yeah, that happened. It's
not because he's like a raging like misogynists. I think
he's just a dumb ass and a lot of this
stuff and dumb asses behave in a way that they
think is going to impress people, particularly like oh, these
young black rich athletes that think it's cool that I'm
(11:45):
doing this, and like, now, so I'll give you a
great example the way he talked about Oh man, I
don't know, the way he would talk about his wife
around the team.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Which was incredibly awkward.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Let me just make it clear that no one on
the team was like, Yeah, that guy's cool.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
Everyone was like what the fuck was that?
Speaker 2 (12:04):
But I really think in his mind that's like, oh,
locker room talk. The guys will really appreciate all talking
about this. You know, you talking about some broad you
bang last night, Well let me tell you about this.
Wait a se you talking about your wife.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
It's like yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
But so it was like one of those things like
the guy was trying too hard. Some of the stuff
obviously it wasn't a guy trying too hard.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
It's just.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Your your guard variety racism, misogyny. But some of the
stuff I think that came out that sounded really terrible.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
I'm like, it wasn't. It wasn't.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
I don't think that was his intention in that moment.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
Did you ever were you ever around him and you
feel like I.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Might be a racist? Fuck? Yeah, jesus, it's like was
it you?
Speaker 3 (12:50):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (12:50):
No, this wasn't. No, Yeah, like it was, it wasn't.
Donald Sterling is what I'll say.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
It's not Donald Sterling zero to Donald's starting. No, he
not Donald Sterling. But also he's not He's not JJ Reddick, right,
he's not like the cool white guy.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
Absolutely not.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
So it meane you left in twenty twelve, Yeah, and
did you think that that was it for you? Like
in terms of the NBA, Like what like what was
your thought process do the ESPN?
Speaker 3 (13:25):
I left.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
I actually left and went like I was like the
hell with this, Like it'd been loggerheads with the new
management for two years.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
I'm like, this ain't working.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
And they weren't enamored by me either, because I think
they felt like I put a lot of salt in
the things that they wanted to do that were dumb
ideas and retrospect definitely dumb ideas that I saved them from.
But they didn't like having a dissenting voice in the room.
So we split ways and I went to go work
for Warren Legarry.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
At Summer League.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Warren Legary at the time owned Summer League, but all
so he's one of the most powerful agents for front
office types and coaches and stuff like that, and so
Warren was going to help me kind of get placed
somewhere else, and so I worked for him at Summer League,
and long story short, it didn't work out, and at
(14:18):
the end of Summer League I ran into Henry Abbott.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
If you remember Henry the.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
True Hoop Yep, we started the True Hoop franchise.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Yeah, And so at this point, Henry's at ESPN, and
Henry had been asked me for years. I've known Henry
for like three years or actually more than that. I didn't
known Henry at that point for like seven years, and
he'd always want me to come do his podcast or
do a show, and I can't.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
They don't let us talk.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Nowadays, it's different, every video coordinator intern talking to every newsbreaker,
but back then, we didn't talk to media like that.
So when he saw me Atummer League, it's like, what
are you doing, I'm like, well, I'm kind of in between.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
I'm looking for something, and he's like, well, can you
do the show now? And I'm like sure, And I thought.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Like one of these teams i'm talking to might see
it and be like, oh, he's pretty good, let's bring
them in, and we end up having with some of
the ESPN saw it and asked does he want to
do this. We need someone who can write from a
front office perspective because we got players and we got coaches.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
We don't have to fun office people.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
And Henry asked me, and the only way I can
describe it, Jamal, is like if someone came from NASA
right now said hey, you want to be asked naut
never thought about it a second, but it sounds cool.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
I ain't doing that. I'm not doing anything, so let's
do it.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
And so what started as like a trial basis, I
would write and they would pay me freelance per piece.
Then it turned into we'll pay you up front and
you deliver this many pieces. Then I got my first
full time deal. And when I got that, they said
it was a three year deal, and they said at
the end of the third year, you might be doing
some television. And six months later I was doing Sports Center.
(15:43):
And never had any training or anything like that, never
had any aspiration of doing it, but found out, oh shit,
I'm actually pretty good at this.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
And the rest, as they say, is history.
Speaker 4 (15:53):
So you, as you see in sports media, the way
that the NBA talked about has changedquite and sometimes not
always in good ways. But what do you make of
how sports media, And if you want to just we'll
just say ESPN because I mean, we both know having
both worked there. The ESPN drives so much of how people.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
Feel about things.
Speaker 4 (16:16):
They drive sports covers, they drive like how other people
cover things. You know, NBA conversations just aren't that fun.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Anymore, you know.
Speaker 4 (16:26):
And so what do you see as what has gone
wrong and how the NBA is currently discussed?
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Well, I think, first and foremost, I put a lot
of responsibility with Adam Silver and the Commissioner's office. They're
the ones who sell the rights to different rights holders.
They're the ones who have the power and control to
let the rights holders know how they want their sport cover.
I know this because we know the NFL does this.
I know what Roger Goodell does. I know how people
(16:53):
talk about football, and it's not like how we talk
about basketball. Number two that and maybe it's because of this,
or maybe this is just coincidentally, but obviously doesn't help
the basketball, I feel like, is the only sport where
we're arguing about ghosts. I never heard anybody say Patrick
(17:17):
Mahomes was cool but he ain't.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
No Joe Namath.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
I never heard anyone say show hey, Tony's amazing, but
come on now, Derek Jeter has him beat by, Like,
we don't do these comparisons in the other sports. We
respect the people came in the past. We respect the
people who are playing right now. We don't sit around
wondering whether the nineteen eighty Islanders would hand the Florida
(17:42):
Panthers that nobody cares. In basketball, for some reason, this
dominates our conversation and any achievement is always put in, well, Mike,
what did Michael do?
Speaker 3 (17:53):
What did Magic do what?
Speaker 2 (17:54):
And it's just it cheapens the enjoyment of what we're seeing.
It's a two way street. By the way, it goes
the opposite of people say, oh my god, if you
put Michael Porter junior in the eighties, he would have
been won seven MVPs. I'm like, like, they don't do that.
They don't do the going back to the future either
in the other sports, and we'd go back both ways,
(18:16):
and it's toxic. And to me, podcasts are podcasts. We
don't have control over podcasts, Instagram accounts, YouTube influencers.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
As a sport, we don't have control over that.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
But when ESPN and then Turner at the time and now.
I hope we don't have this with NBC and Amazon.
When you're part of this, that's the part where the
sport can step in and say I'm not you not
you have to you have to talk about our shit
smart the way they do on NFL Live right or
(18:49):
on Baseball Tonight. You don't talk about our ship with
our lowest common denominator arguments. That's for the Internet. I
don't give them how many clicks they got. I'm like,
that's not your metric here. Your metric is me me.
I'm the one who sold it to you under the
guidance that you're going to talk about it in this way.
And I think the NBA is a little too enamored
(19:09):
with being popular online because that is one day TV
will be done and everything will be online. And that's
their take is like we'll be the first ones there.
But to me, it comes at a detriment when you
allow the deterioration of the product.
Speaker 4 (19:24):
The thing is, I don't even think Roger Goodell had
to tell players that is that there is just this
understood you know what they say? What what's you know?
What's understood need not be said? And I don't even
know that Roger Goodell or any NFL office actually had
to say to Michael Strahan or Terry Bradshaw or any
of the guys that you see on the pregame shows,
(19:47):
like hey, let's let's celebrate this sport as opposed to
talking about everything that's.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
Wrong with it.
Speaker 4 (19:53):
And I know a lot of people have really come
from come from inside the NBA, come for them rather
and saying that like a these guys getting up there
sometimes and be like this player is awful.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
They're like, I'll be clear, I don't have a problem
with them saying someone's terrible. I have a problem. I
have a problem when it's oh, man, like the game
is terrible.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
Now. I don't like that.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
I don't like when and I told Charles this, I
don't like when he says and he's like, what do
you want me to say?
Speaker 3 (20:25):
I'm like, I don't want you to say that.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
You can criticize individuals when you criticize the game as
a whole.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
Because the reality there's two things.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Number one is the shit that y'all remember ain't as
awesome as you think it was.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
Go back NBA TV during the summer they play the
classic games.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Go back and watch them. Anyone could do the Instagram
highlight reel. You see all the Michael Jordan's you can
watch to come fly with Me tape. It looks amazing. Now,
trust me, that shit lives up. It holds up. But
what doesn't hold up is like watching Knicks Pacers from
ninety four, the Regi Miller twenty five point game in
the four quarter. I WoT me and Zach Harper were
doing radio Live Radio one summer and that game was
(21:04):
on him. We're like, let's just fuck, let's just watch this,
and it was like it was comical. Reggi Mian at
one point had like sixteen points in the fourth quarter.
The Knicks the best defense, the baddest defense ever. They're
coming in transition. Antonio Davis is bringing the ball up
and AD's my guy, I love you a d but
they jumped on him like, oh we got a sop ball.
They left Reggie millerwido, he's got sixteen in the quarter.
(21:25):
He's got sixteen in the quarter.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
What are we doing? This is the best defense ever.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Old they used to play defense back and then they're
leaving a dude who has sixteen in the quarter in
the fourth wide open and this is not like I say,
it was routine play after play out, like what are
you doing?
Speaker 3 (21:42):
Why are you making that decision? It was just uncanny
how poor the decision making was.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Or or I'll take a stept brother going to like
two thousand and I think it was like Piston's Magic
two thousand and three, two thousand and four, the.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
Tracy McGrady when they were up three to one.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
Yeahyeah, yeah, yeah, they took they took my boys words
out of context, but the team back.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
I got your back, Like I think.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
That was the first NBA series I covered, was that one?
Speaker 3 (22:07):
Oh yeah, oh wow? Or were you in Orlando? You
in Orlando? Right? Uh no, not yet.
Speaker 4 (22:12):
I was working for the Detroit Free Press got it,
And so I was the I was the backup during
the playoffs for the business main beat writer, So my
responsibility was covering the Piston's opponent. So I spent most
of my time covering the Magic end of that series, right,
So I was there when he said it.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
So so, but it was like there's a game was
like seventy nine to seventy four, like, and I'm watching
this game and I'm like, god, damn man, like this
is not good product.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
Like nobody, nobody wants to see.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
Like I'm watching Tracy McGrady, I want to see Tracy
mcgady do Tracy McGrady shit. I don't want to watch
him get wrapped up by you know whoever, not Tejon Prince,
but like someone like some one of those guys. I
don't want to see that much. In the same way
I don't want I want to see Eldon Campbell take
eighteen foot jumpers like I just.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Or I guess that would be the thing, but.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Well, but we asked him to take three to get
out of the way so that like the guys actually
do stuff can go to work. I don't want to
see Tyrone Hill hit a fifteen foot jumper, right, I
want him out of the way so I.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Could see Alan Iverson do Allen Iverson stuff.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
And so that's part of it, like your memory of
what the game was is not as nearly as entertaining
as you remember it to be. And then the other
part of it is guys are playing under the rules
of the game today, So oh, man, like you just
let that guy go by, yeah, because I can't grab.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
Him like you can. I can't. I'm not allowed to.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
We're gonna sen him to the free throw line, so
I gotta I gotta guard him like this basically my
hands back or whatever.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
So it makes look the game is different.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
You just have to accept this different and they're doing
the best they can under the current circumstances. And when
you don't acknowledge that, I think you're doing a disservice
to your viewing public.
Speaker 4 (24:01):
So you know, with that being said, Like another topic
is how this idea of rings being the sole focused
of how people judge greatness. I'm not really sure where
that came from, but I think that's probably another annoying
layer to how the game is talked about. It's like,
(24:21):
unless you want a reinnuation, it's kind of like what like,
there's a lot I don't think people appreciate how very
hard it is to win a NBA title, Like ninety
nine percent of the players are not in a position
to win one.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
I mean, it's just kind of what it is.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
And so Jamel, like you and I were growing up
in an arrow where and they said who's the best
power for it in the game, And it was one
of two names over the two names, do you remember.
Speaker 4 (24:48):
Oh, it was Karl Malone Dam alone or Barkley.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Anyone else's secondary Malana Barkley. That was the conversation all
the way up until like your two thousand, who's the
best power in the game, Malona Bart till Tim Duncan,
till Tim Duncan, and then all of a sudden, it's like,
but even then it was Tim Duncan. It was them
even recognizing in the moment, this fucker's good, right, it
was his play. It was everything about him on both
(25:15):
ends of the floor that made people bend the knee.
Obviously he wins a title ninety nine and then you
went a second and then all of a sudden, you
got five. It makes it easy to go, yeah, he's
the best powerful because he has five rings. Like no,
they figured that shit out before he really got into
winning rings. But the reality was before him, it was
two guys that never won a championship who were This
(25:36):
was the apex of the sport. And you know, it's
it's crazy now that we are in a place where look,
I know, I get it.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
We're all trying to win. That's the that's the goal.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
The goal is to win, but to behave as though
that is the sole difference between success and failure in
this case, it's kind of ridiculous. And again it's it's
all depending on like who's crafting the messaging, right, And
this original messaging started really around Michael Jordan. So Michael
(26:14):
Jordan's better than magic a bird. Why because he's got
six magics, got five birds.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
Got three.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
And then from there, if you grow up in the
church of Michael Jordan, you worship at that altar.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
Now that's the lens that you see it in.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
It's like, I've got to be the best scorer and
I've got to win more championships than anyone else.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
And from this church comes Kobe Bryant.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
And so now Kobe Bryant is carrying this, but it's
it's an exaggerated version of what Jordan's thing was because
like Jordan, Yes, he took all these shots. Whatever Jordan
shot like an insane percentage in mid range, like you
shot like like the tracking numbers from like the ninety
seven season, ninety in the fifty percent.
Speaker 3 (26:57):
Range from the mid range.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
But he took a lot of them, but he made
him Kobe took a lot of them, made a lot
percentage wise not so great. But it's still like but
this is the apex, I take the last shot, and
I'm the man, and da da da, and also I
got five rings. And so now you have this whole
generation of people coming up believing that's the religion, right,
(27:21):
And so then we get to this stage right now
where it's like, yeah, rings are everything, because if it's
not for the rings, and how else are we supposed
to measure?
Speaker 3 (27:30):
But we know it's it's ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
Like the people that ask would you rather ask Robert Rorriy,
would you rather have your career Charles Brockley's career, And
he said, hell, he had to want Charles Brocky's career.
It was beyond money. It's like it's knowing how good
he was. It's knowing like seven rings is amazing. Sure,
but let me tell you something, seven rings ain't in
school as knowing I own this shit.
Speaker 4 (27:51):
And knowing too, you were the best player in the league.
When Michael Jortan played Michael Jordan, he'll talk about Karl
Malone with an at IMVP.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
He never talked about Barkley winning the MVP that he
won because Barkley was by far. I mean, I can't
say by far because it's still Michael Jordan. But he
he was the best player.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
He was the best player that year, the best player,
and and and it's not just the best player in
terms of I was recognized as such. It's the knowledge
on a nightly basis, I control this ship. This whole
thing happens at my whim. Like that's a power level
on a basketball court. When you know I'm playing with
(28:30):
and against nine of the other greatest players on the
planet and clearly I'm the best one.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
That's a feeling that you can't replace with one hundred drinks.
Speaker 4 (28:42):
One more basketball question, I mean before I get to
the final question, which is I'm just setting up an
alub for you in this final in the final question.
But one more basketball question first, and that is, how
do you think things in between Lebron and the Lakers?
Speaker 1 (28:56):
You think they in You think they end with him retiring?
Speaker 3 (28:59):
No, I think the end amicable.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
The contract expires, he leaves, he goes somewhere else, you.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
Get one more move in him.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Yeah, I think. I don't think he gets traded. I
don't think he gets bought out. I think he will
play out the year and then regardless of what happens,
he'll leave, He'll go somewhere else and then.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
That's wherever that is, that'll be the last chapter.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
Maybe I'm just a moron, but I don't think that he.
Speaker 4 (29:25):
Will and I think he'll stay because I do think
it's a different scenario when you leave the Lakers. Now,
of course, we know crazy things happen, crazy things happen
in the NBA.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Like next thing you know him is Steph for like
we're gonna give it a run.
Speaker 4 (29:40):
I'm like, all right, I understand why you would why
you would leave for that, right or some situation where
it's like, okay, this is really set up for him
to win. But also you know, I also think about
his age and like how much he loves being in
LA And I'm like, I don't, do you have one
of one more of those in you, like one of
one of those like college tries.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
We're gonna make this work.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
I'll give you three three places number one not in
any order, but first place I'll talk about is Golden
State because of playing with Steph, and I think that
Olympic Yeah, but I think that Olympic experience really, like
when you think about if you if you're a you're
a basketball genius and to play with another genius whose
(30:26):
game compliments you, because lucas a genius, but it was like,
not not a great fit. That's the perfect fit to
have basketball to be that easy for the like probably
for the first time on the Bronze life.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
It's never been that easy, Like, oh my god.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
I think there's a part of that that would tantalize
him to play with that guy in that system. Second place,
I would say, or second location I would say, is
Cleveland use symmetry just because of the symmetry that's I
mean you're saying when you're saying where he would pick
up right, Like I don't.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
I don't see him going to Utah or whatever.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
I think, hey, we got a shot, we're right.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
Or even like Dallas, I don't.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
I think Dallas is just too much right to process,
whereas Cleveland it's like it's home and all that stuff,
and you got the symmetry there and then number three
and everyone will call me crazy, but we do live
in a rings culture society. And I have said time
and time again, if you win one in New York,
it's worth a thousand. So with thousand, Jamel, listen to me,
(31:31):
He'll never He'll never win six and even if he
wins six, he'll never be six for six. But you
win one in New York worth a thousand because not
only does everyone recognize the degree difficulty of doing it
in that in that city and that building with that ownership, right,
but more than that, where are most of the media
(31:52):
centered out of They will write the salt, They will
write the ballads for you. You don't even have to
do nothing. You don't even have to spin it. They'll
do the spin for you. Because at the end of
the day, and we saw man Dayalen Brunson goes to
the conference finals and they're already doing like, is he
the most popular nick of all time?
Speaker 3 (32:10):
He went to one conference final? You think Lebron wins.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
A title, they're not going to tell us that he's
the greatest player in any sport ever, ever, forever, like
in the future, in the past or whatever. I'm not look.
Degree of difficulty is high. But you get it done. There,
this Jordan Lebron conversation done.
Speaker 4 (32:29):
Yeah, the hater in me is just going to actively
root against them.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
Of course, No, we don't want we want to see
the Knicks fail. I want to see the Knicks fail.
Of course, I want to see the worst version of that.
But I accept if he That's why I accept if
he gets it done.
Speaker 3 (32:46):
Shit, man, like you really are good.
Speaker 4 (32:49):
I mean, after that, there is no argument really to
probably be made against that.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
All right, all right.
Speaker 4 (33:01):
I hope you enjoyed the second part of this interview
with Amin al Hassan if you missed the first part,
that is also available on iHeart Apple Podcasts or wherever
you get your podcasts. Thank you for listening to this
bonus episode of Spolitics, and make sure you check for
Spoloitics every Thursday when a new episode drops.
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