January 9, 2025 • 48 mins
This week, Jemele’s “The Filibuster” focuses on the NFL MVP race between Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson. Then, CNN anchor and rabid Philadelphia sports fan Jake Tapper joins Jemele to discuss the state of sports in Philly. Tapper takes Jemele through the origin and evolution of his superstitious Philly fandom, and he shares a special message for Joel Embiid. Jemele also presses Tapper on whether he enjoyed witnessing the Eagles win the Super Bowl more than his wedding. Finally, Jemele answers an audience question about the disapproval of Heisman winner Travis Hunter’s romantic relationship.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, what's up everybody.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
I'm Jamel Hill and welcome to politics and iHeart podcast
and Unbothered Network production.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Time to get spolitical?
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Did you all know that this year's NFL MVP racist
kind disorder about race?
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Now before some of.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
You get upset and start reflexively throwing out words y'all
don't even fully understand like woke and di and Marxist,
let me explain. The MVP race is down to Buffalo
Bills quarterback Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson of the Baltimore Ravens.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Now.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Both of these quarterbacks have had fine seasons and both
are worthy of the MVP. As of this recording, Allen
has accounted for forty touchdowns this season, committed fewer than
eight turnovers, and after the Bills beat the Patriots in
Week sixteen, Alan Todd Russell Wilson for most wins by
a quarterback in the first seven seasons of his career
with seventy five.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Now.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
On top of all of that, Josh Allen has only
been set fourteen times.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Now.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Allen also is only playing with two other Pro Bowlers
on offense, and this season the Bills have beaten both
the Chiefs and the Lions, who are the number one
seeds in their respective conferences.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Hella impressive.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
On the other hand, Lamar Jackson, he's having a better
season this season than he did last season when he
won his second MVP. Now, if you stack his numbers
up against Josh Allens, he's beating Josh Allen in virtually
every significant category completion percentage, touchdown passes, passing yards, rushing yards,
and he also has an overall higher passer rating. Now
(01:36):
Lamar Jackson is the first player in NFL history to
throw for over four thousand yards and rush for over
nine hundred. He also broke Michael Vick's career rushing yards
record for a quarterback.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Again, hella impressive.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Now, these are the stats which obviously have nothing to
do with race, But as we've seen throughout Lamar Jackson's
NFL career, when it comes to him in particular, race
is always lurking somewhere in the background, and sometimes it's
right in front of our faces. One of the most
common arguments being used to support Allen receiving the MVP
(02:10):
over Lamar Jackson is that Lamar Jackson already has won
the award twice and therefore it's just time to give
it to someone else. Now, that's a weird argument to make,
but one we've seen you before in sports. Cut to
Michael Jordan's prime MVP years. Michael Jordan easily could have
won the MVP more than five times, but there was
this sense that voters were getting tired of giving it
(02:31):
to him. People point to Charles Barkley winning the MVP
for his spectacular ninety two to ninety three season and
Karl Malone winning it in nineteen ninety seven as examples
of Jordan being robbed of the MVP simply because of
voter fatigue. Now, not to derail this whole conversation, but
Barkley earned that MVP like a mug. Barkley averaged twenty
five and twelve, and most importantly, the Suns finished with
(02:53):
the best regular season record. The MVP isn't about who
you want taking the last shot, who you build a
fairy with. It is simply about who had the best
regular season and how that impacted their team's success. Now,
when it comes to Carl Malone back in nineteen ninety seven,
that's a different story. Well, first of all, y'all know
I don't fuck with Carl Malone as a staff record
(03:13):
label or a crew for reasons you can google. But
second of all, when Malone won the MVP in nineteen
ninety seven, although he finished second to Jordan in the
league in scoring, Utah did not have the best.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Record in the league that year. But I digress.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
This Lamar Jackson Josh Allen MVP debate is kind of
giving that Michael Jordan Field he wins it every year.
Lamar Jackson's own excellence is basically being held against him.
So much of any MVP race is about narrative, and
the narrative surrounding Lamar Jackson is still baked and how
people perceived him before he was even drafted.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
This quarterback out in Louisville.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
Lamar Jackson is here in Indianapolis, and he will throw
tomorrow when the quarterbacks work out. But we now know
a number of teams have also requested that Jackson workout
with the wide receivers as well.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
They want to see both workouts.
Speaker 4 (04:02):
Jackson is yet to say, at least publicly, whether he's
admenable to that.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Now I'm going to go ahead here and say the
quiet part out loud. The reason Lamar Jackson, despite his
success is still polarizing to some people. Is because Lamar
Jackson refuses to code switch. He refuses to co switch
and how he presents himself. He refuses to co switch
in how he plays, he refuses to co switch in
terms of how he conducts his business because his mother
(04:28):
is his agent. Lamar Jackson don't bother nobody, but you
would be surprised by how many people are bothered by that.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
I want my quarterbacks to be quarterback.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Ye now, people have been using racially coded language to
describe Jackson his entire NFL career.
Speaker 5 (04:43):
The San Francisco forty nine Ers have suspended a radio
analyst because of something he said about Ravens quarterback Lamar Jackson.
Here's what that analyst, Tim Ryan said on a radio
show Monday morning after the Ravens beat the forty nine
ers on Sunday.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
When he his dark skinn color with a dark football,
with a dark uniform, you could not see that thing.
I mean you literally could not see when he was
in and out of the matchpoint.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
So, if race has been a factor in how people
have frankly always discussed Lamar Jackson, why would race suddenly
be eliminated entirely from the equation when it comes to
this MVP race. Now, let me be clear, I'm not
saying if Josh Allen wins the award is because he's
white and people are racist. I would have zero problem
if he wanted. But there is a theme here of
black excellence being taken for granted, and it's not just
(05:31):
limited to sports, and sometimes that excellence is used to
deny black folks their due.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
A couple of years ago.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Variety polled five Grammy voters about who they voted for
and who they didn't vote for. The voters were allowed
to share their true feelings anonymously. One voter admitted that
she didn't vote for Beyonce in any of the top
categories because she has quote already won a lot of Grammys.
Along those same lines, Simone Biles used to be penalized
(05:58):
for her ability to x acute difficult, unprecedented maneuvers because
the International Gymnastics Federation was concerned that other gymnasts would
hurt themselves trying to mimic files, so if they gave
her lower scores, the other gymnasts would have less incentive
to try. When you're black, sometimes there is such thing
as being too good or your own good. I'm Jamel
(06:21):
Hill and I approved this message. Coming up next on spolitics,
we live in a very tricky, polarizing political time, but
not so tricky and not so polarizing that one of
the most trusted news anchors in mainstream media can't.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Find time to be a Rabbit fan.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
CNN anchor Jake Tapper is in the political trensist, but
that does not distract him from being an intense Philadelphia
sports fan.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Jake and I will discuss what's more difficult.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Covering President elect Donald Trump or interviewing Patrick Mahomes right
after he beat his beloved Philadelphia Eagles in the Super Bowl.
That's up next on s politics. Jake, thank you so
much for joining me. And I'm going to start this
podcast the way I start every episode as politics, and
(07:08):
that is by asking you name a moment or an
athlete that made you love sports.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
Oh wow, Mike Schmidt made me love sports in seventy
nine and eighty as a little boy watching the Philadelphia Phillies.
I confess also when Rose came to the Phillies, I
didn't know all the stuff about him, but just as
I remember when he was with the Reds and searching
(07:37):
around and reading my dad's Sports Illustrated and there was
an issue that had him like wearing the hats of
like a bunch of teams that might take them, and
I was really hoping. And he became the Phillies first
baseman and I think that was seventy nine, and then
they won the World Series in eighties. So that whole
nineteen eighty season for a little boy was just was
(07:58):
just really a matchic time in Philly sports. The Eagles
were in the Super Bowl and I think in like
January eighty one or something like that, and then of
course under Doctor Ju the Sixers won the championship in
eighty three. So that whole period spoiled me. And then
there was a long long period of nothing. But anyway,
(08:22):
so that was it was a great time to be
a little boy.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
Yeah, that's a pretty good run.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
You had seventy nine, eighty, as you said, eighty one
and then eighty three. I was like, that's that's a
dream period as a Philly sports fan. But as you said,
you've also gone through some miser a misery.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
As a as a Philodelphia sports fan.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
So how did you how do you cope through those
times when Philly sports isn't quite doing as well is
it as it should be.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
So I have a there's a bunch of Philadelphia diasporans
that that we all text and email and have certain
rules about unbridled optimism, which is not permitted. It's jinxing,
(09:09):
and it's also just part of it. You know. It's
funny because I have successfully raised my kids, even though
we live in DC, to be Eagles fans. They're not
really into baseball or basketball per se, but they're they're
into football, both my daughter and my son. And it
occurred to me last year when the Eagles completely fell apart,
(09:33):
and I think they were I think they had the
same well, they were ten and ten and one, and
then they just like lost five or six games in
a row. It's just absolutely abysmal. And it occurred to
me that my son had only really known the Eagles
as a team that brings pleasure generally speaking, because because
of the twenty seventeen and then twenty eighteen Super Bowl,
(09:55):
and then they were in a different super Bowl, which
was painful, but at least they were in the super Bowl.
And it, I mean, like he really doesn't know what
it's like to be a Philly sports fan, because he
is really just seeing the Eagles as a dominant team.
But it's just part of life, right, I mean, it's
just I mean, it's one of the reasons we all
love sports so much is because it is such a
(10:16):
metaphor for life and the fact that most of us,
even if we're really good at what we do, don't
win the Super Bowl, don't win the Sidewant Young Award,
don't win the NBA Championship. But you know, for the
best laid plans, like Joel Embiid is still struggling with whatever.
I mean, it's just it is the life of it.
(10:38):
I mean, it's the life of a Philly fan. It's
really the life of a fan. I mean, because it's
not as though Mets fans and Yankee fans and Dodger
fans and everybody doesn't go through the same thing. But
there is something gritty about the Philadelphia kind of like downtrodden,
chip on our shoulder, wait till next year attitude that
(10:59):
is as part of it. I mean, you know, there's
a reason why they may they play clips from Rocky
and music from Rocky at every Philadelphia sports game, and
it's just that underdog feeling is part of the ethos.
And also Rocky lost. I mean, as people people forget
that he didn't win till Rocky too.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Right now, I would say Philly and the Detroit Lions
have kind of separated themselves from other NFC teams. So
how are you processing this season for the Eagles.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
I'm expecting that disappointment.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
So you're you're not looking at this same as saying, wow,
they're great.
Speaker 6 (11:35):
We may another my god, No, no, no, And I
have to say, and I don't know if you as
an African American or you as a woman feel this,
but I as a Jew feel this, which is there
is something in being Jewish that's just like expecting the worst.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
It's just drilled into your head expecting the point.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
And I definitely learned this. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
I don't know if as a woman or as an
African American you feel the same way, but there's just
like we're like, Okay, what's coming around the corner. And
there's something about being from Philly that's like that too.
It's different, obviously, but there is just something of skeptical
or anxiety inducing about you. No, I'm not and by
(12:16):
the way, we won the game, but the but the
takeaway was what's wrong with our panising game? What is
Jalen going to do to improve his We all love him,
we all want him to succeed, you know all that,
but that that didn't look like a team that was
going to win the Super Bowl. So yeah, no, it's
you know, nerve.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Rank because I've heard this.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
I have a lot of the Philly sports friends who
are friends of mine.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
But are you a little bit angry?
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Maybe angry isn't the word, Maybe that's too strong, but
a little bit disappointed in Joe LMB because you know,
at this point in his career, certainly entering this season,
he wasn't in the best shape. You know, it has
He's taken a lot of criticism in Philadelphia.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
He has been.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Suspended for trying to fight a reporter in the locker
room who called out some of the issues that people
have had.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
So how do you feel about JOELMB?
Speaker 3 (13:11):
So I'll just say that I want him to rise
to the occasion. I want him to rise to the moment.
And there is an entire city that wants to love
him so much and he kind of doesn't want it.
And there's just Look, I mean we went through this
(13:32):
with Harden too, Like some people act like champions and
some people don't, and Jalen Hurts acts like a champion.
Is you know Saquon Barkley is a god. I mean
that sideline clip of him telling Nick Sirianni that he no, no,
(13:55):
I don't need to break my record for the game.
Let the young guys eat so moving. He wasn't performing,
He didn't know that the cameras are on him, like
unless he's the best actor in the world, and like
that selflessness and appreciation. Look, I feel this way about
my job too. I am and I'm not comparing myself
(14:19):
to Jalen Hurts for say Von Barkley, but like, I'm
incredibly fortunate I have. I'm really lucky. I get to
do something I love. I am compensated for it in
a very nice way. And uh, the best thing I
can do and I don't always succeed and I don't
always achieve it, but the best thing I can do
(14:40):
is try to express appreciation for it and be nice
to other people and this and that. And I'm looking
over at my staff to see if they're if they're
giving me a side eye on it. So but to
set an example and to and and to appreciate it
and and and be kind my, you know, to the
other anchors and the other correspondents of this and that,
and to try to be a leader. And again, I'm
(15:02):
not comparing what I'm doing to any of these incredibly
talented people, but there is something about appreciating a rarefying existence.
And I look at Jalen Hurts, and I look at
Saquon Barkley, and I look at Bryce Harper, and I've
been lucky enough to like meet and like be text
buddies and go to a like a game or two
(15:23):
a year with Mike Schmidt, like one of my childhood heroes,
and like these are just they have great perspective and
they really understand how lucky they are. And I don't
get that vibe from Joel. And if I'm wrong, I'm
happy to apologize and be proven wrong. But I just
don't see that it doesn't seem like he's being that leader,
(15:46):
and I want him to be. One of the most
remarkable things in Philly sports that ever happened was when
Trey Turner was having a horrible slump, and I think
somebody did a documentary movie about this, and I have
to see it. I'm not sure if it's come out yet.
But and for some reason, somebody decided to lead Philadelphia
Phillies fans in cheering him instead of booing him, which
(16:09):
is more our vibe were booers and it worked. And
it's and Trey Turner like had a great season, didn't
make the World Series, but had a great season. I
think this is last season. I don't think it was
this season, And like, I don't know, I would just
like to see a little bit more like there is
that willingness to cheer for Joel and b there is
(16:31):
and and not winning a championship is doctor j only
won one? I mean, like you know, Barkley won none.
Barkley won no championships for US, but he's beloved because
he worked so hard for the Sixer. So that's a
long answer for your question.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
No, I mean, I get what you're saying is that
it does feel that Joel Embiid is sort of it's
him versus everybody, Like he's kind.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Of fighting the world a little bit.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
And you know, I think a lot of it has
to do with the fact that he's add a number
of injuries in his career. I think some of it
is just internally battling his own level of disappointment in
how things have turned out.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
And that's not to erase.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Him being an MVP and all these other things, but
it is just say that there is an expectation. But
I think his behavior is the part that Philly fans
are most upset about.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
Not necessarily, I mean the championships. Of course, you guys
want to win, but right, yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
You know, Alan Iverson, another guy couldn't be more loved
than Philadelphia.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
Never won a champion, never won a championship, but tried
so hard and never at least maybe this is revisionist history,
you know, but I don't remember him acting. I don't
remember him blaming anyone other than himself for any of
his shortcomings. And it's just like, that's why he's still beloved,
And it's just it's about appreciating the opportunity has been
(17:56):
given and rising to it. And look, he's young. I mean,
I'm fifty five, so perspective comes a little easier at
fifty five than it does at thirty. At thirty, you think,
why doesn't everybody appreciate how great I am? And how
hard I work, and then you realize, like just because
that's just not how the world works, Like that's the
(18:17):
world is about what you can provide for them, not
what it can provide for you. And so there's just
a maturing that needs to happen. And sometimes great players
like I mean, I think Jalen Hurts gets it and
he's like twenty three, So I don't know. I mean,
maybe it's not just stage.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Sports loving sports, loving a team, a city in your
case as well, it comes with its all level of
emotional upheaval because of the ups and the downs. But
as somebody who is you know, a news anchor who
is mired in world chaos and country chaos all the time,
are sports all the sports therapy for you?
Speaker 3 (18:54):
They are? I do catch myself sometimes I was because
you know, the apps have made it so much easier
to be a sports fan. And I went through like
a period where I just when I was when I
started in journalism, where I just couldn't keep up with sports.
It just wasn't as easy too, Like I to be honest,
(19:18):
I was covering Obama in two thousand and eight and
I completely missed the Philadelphia World Series run I just
missed it. I just didn't. I was covering the election
of Barack Obama. That was my job, and I just
missed it. And I'm really bombed. But now because of
smartphones and apps, like I wouldn't, that would never happen again.
It is a huge amount of therapy for me. I
do catch myself thinking, like, you know, I'm caring about
(19:42):
this baseball game a lot more than any like adult
human should care about any game. But you know that's okay.
I mean, I'm able to walk away for it does
affect my mood, though in a way that is not
that I have to like say, okay, stop, like I'm
going to be upset unless the Eagles win the Super Bowl,
(20:04):
and like I know, the odds of the Eagles making
it to the super Bowl, much less winning it are
not one hundred percent. Let's just put it that way.
And that is very, very upsetting. But I try to
use the sports for the therapy as much as possible,
and God knows in this world we need it. I
(20:27):
need it for sure.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Now he mentioned how it changes your mood, but yet
in what was it twenty twenty one when you all
lost to the Chiefs, you still managed to compose yourself
enough to interview Patrick Mahomes on your show after.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
He had just beaten your Eagles.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
What was that moment like as a as a Philly fan,
and then now you have to interview the guy who
took a championship of you.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
Okay, so first of all that you did your research.
That's good. They beat his fair and square. I mean,
there was one call was iffy, but it doesn't matter.
It doesn't like honestly, our defense fell apart in the
second half and that's just what it is. And that's
why I was happy to see Gan and leave no offense.
I hope he has a nice life and everything. But
our defensive coordinator was not rising to the to the game.
(21:16):
The footnote the caveat on that is my wife is
from the Kansas City area, so I live with the
Chiefs fan. I'm in love with the Chiefs fan, so
I'm not. It's not like I find they are not
like an irredeemable team. They you know, you can't. I
can't hate Patrick Mahomes the way that like Saint Brady,
(21:37):
aroused the wrath of Philadelphians. Like I will still I
will if somebody's saying something nice about Tom Brady on Twitter.
I will still tweet out that gift of him missing
the ball in the in the Super Bowl, except if
somebody's replaced the ball with the world with the super
Bowl Trophy with the Vince Lombardi and it's so it's
hip anyway, childish, very childish, but I will do that.
(22:00):
And then the other thing is I do this charity
thing every year in Kansas City for Children's Mercy Hospital,
and so I've actually met Mahomes and Kelsey a few times.
You know. I don't like, they're not my friends or anything,
but I've met them and they're really They're really good guys.
So you know, it wasn't as tough as it would
(22:21):
have been if it had been Tom Brady. If it
had been Tom Brady, that would have been a different interview.
I think, I think it would have. I don't know
that I could have gotten through if Tom Brady. If
the Patriots had beaten us in twenty eighteen, I don't
know that I would have been capable of doing an
interview with Tom Brady the way.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
I was might have tapped out on that.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
Yeah, I don't I don't think that, So don't give
me too much credit.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
All right, what about if the Cowboys ever won a
Super Bowl? Could you do the interview?
Speaker 3 (22:47):
I just don't. I just don't hate them that much.
I mean, like and also they're struggling so much that
I they honestly like the Cowboys of today are not
the Cowboys of when I was growing up, and it
was like the Cowboys and Steelers won everything. I mean
it was just like I didn't even know the last
time they were in I mean, they don't make postseason
a lot.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
I mean they're in a drug that's for sure.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
Yeah. Yeah. And also my brother in law lives in Frisco,
which is right outside also, and matt is like that
is where the stadium is. That's the whole championship. I've
been to games and they're you know, I just I
don't hate them the way that I did in the
in the seventies when they were so good.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Yeah, because I would think naturally that as you know,
being that they're in your division, it's like them and
the Commanders that might you know, hurt.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
Yeah, I mean I love beating a little bit.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
I love you had to do that.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
But maybe I love beating them, But I love the
Phillies beating the Braves more, you know, because the Braids
are more of like a fierce rival kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
I mean, the thing with the Cowboys is just that
they have been sort of frightening mediocre since you obviously
the mid nineties. I mean, they've they've certainly made the playoffs,
like they just it's hard to remember, like they were
just a wild card last year, you know, but they
they haven't made it past the divisional round and I
think since the mid nineties that was the last time.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
I just like I'm on a text Jane with my
son and my and my brother in law, and my
brother in law is the Cowboys fan, and like it's
just not even that funnymore. You're so bad. It's just
like I feel bad for them, Like I don't even
do it, you know what I mean. Like it's just
like it's not even a good rivalry. Like they're bad, which,
(24:37):
by the way, I'm just jinxed it. They're gonna beat
us now, I mean, like here you go, They're gonna
be in the super Bowl or something. I just I
just I don't don't.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
Have to worry about that with this guy.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
You know, I brought the divisions are wrong. Yes, I
mean they're to.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Worry about them being in your way. I don't. I
think this season you're safe.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
But you know what I mean said, I'm arousing the
wrath of the sports gods.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Now, with all this being said, given your lover sports,
is it a point as you were thinking about becoming
a journalist that you thought about being a sports journalist.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
I don't know enough at all. And in fact, the
fact that when this post, my friends from college will
make fun of me because I was so not a
sports fan in college and they were, and like for
your younger listeners and viewers, like, it was so tough
(25:28):
to follow sports back then, Like I don't ESPN first.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
Of all came around, was some of us managed, Well.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
That's what they would say, That's what they would say.
But these are the guys who would like go walk
to the gas station in college to get a copy
of USA today, to go look at the box scores. Right,
this is pre internet. I'm saying, like, it's much easier now.
So I'm a much bigger sports fan now and like
so they will make fun of me for you even
asking that question, because these are guys who could literally
(26:00):
like become sports commentators. I think a couple of them
I'm thinking of Darryl and my friend Hillman could probably
be sports commentators and now, just because they know so much.
And in fact, when I turned fifty, my wife through
a party, and Jeff Zucker, who is a sports lunatic,
right he loves sports, and someday if they, you know,
(26:22):
if all is right in this world, like the Dolphins
will hire him to be the general manager or something like,
he'll get a job in sports at some point. But
in any case, he sat next to Darryl and Hillman
and he's like, who are these guys? Because they just
they know everything about sports. It it'd be much more
that question should be asked of them, not of me.
(26:43):
But no, I don't. I just don't know enough. I mean, like,
if there were sports teams, if there were sports shows
about like the nineteen eighty Phillies, I could probably remember
enough about Bob Boone and Tim McCarver and Shaken Bake
mcgride to like, you know, rise to the occasion. But
as a general as a general premise, now I just
don't know enough.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
How So, what was your path to journalism?
Speaker 3 (27:03):
My path to journalism? Was. Really It's funny because I
started out in when I was a kid, I loved journalism.
I did like a neighbor like a neighborhood newspaper, just
like a mimiograph newspaper. And then I was editor of
my high school paper. And then I went off to
college and I did a comic strip, but I did
(27:25):
I wasn't a journalist, and I kind of didn't realize
how much I missed it or how much I was
meant to do it until years later, Like I was,
I tried to do the comic strip, and then I
went to film school, and I kind of just fumped
my way around in my twenties until I was like,
you know what, I started writing freelance stories for city
(27:48):
paper here in Washington and other places, and I kind
of like, oh, this is really fun. And then looking
back on it, I I'm kind of mystified that it
took me so long, given how much I liked it
when I was in high school. And I'm actually even
named after a journalist. My great uncle who I never met,
(28:08):
Jacob Cher, was a Chicago Sun Times managing editor who
taught journalism at Medill. So I mean, like, it's really
kind of bizarre that I was such an idiot about
it for so long. But then I started writing for
City Paper, and then it just took off from there
city Paper, then Salon and ABC and now seeing it.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
At what point did you realize that you or wanted
to or should or I don't know, if you just
kind of organically gravitated to politics. At what point did
you realize that that was what you wanted to cover?
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Well?
Speaker 3 (28:40):
I just always I was raised in a very political household,
and we were just always politically aware about what was
going on. I mean, I do have memories of my mom,
not that I was grasping what was going on, but
I do remember my mom watching the Watergate hearings on TV.
I knew there's a my dad has somewhere cartoon I
(29:00):
did of the mayor, like a political cartoon I did
of the mayor of Philadelphia, who was time this horrible
racist democrat named Frank Rizzo, and uh, it's just like
a little drawing and it's just bad Rizzo, bad Rizzo,
bad Rizzo, which is you know, incisive commentary for three
and and so I was just always very aware of politics.
(29:22):
I just uh, it just took me. It took me
a while to figure out the political journalism was something
I really like now.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
As we as we've seen how polarizing, obviously politics has become.
I'm wondering what it's like for you as an anchor
when you're not on air, particularly since you know, obviously
President elect Trump had made CNN, you know, had a
lot of criticisms. I think I'm not even criticisms if
(29:48):
it isn't even the word of what he was saying
about CNN is far more serious than that. I'm wondering
how that impacted your life and whether or not you
have any concerns as he takes office again, that's being
able to again become his punching bag, which leads to
a level of danger for the anchors who are on air.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
Well, I don't like animosity towards news media at all
from anyone, and obviously he displayed it quite a bit.
It started with CNN. Well it's start. It actually started
with like the des Moines Register. I mean, if you
go back and trace his anger at the media, it
starts it with like the des Moines Register. It starts
(30:27):
with individual outlets and reporters, and then it just grew
and you can even like trace enemy of the people
from I think it started with CNN and then it
was like then he just added, so it's really just
any news media that tries to hold him accountable at all.
(30:48):
And you know, that's never pleasant to be called the
enemy of the people, especially in an age where political
violence is a very real thing that we wasn't fun
then and it I don't know what to expect in
this new era. He's talked about changing libel laws to
(31:10):
make it easier to sue journalists. I wish the House
and Senate would pass as a shield law that's being
proposed that would protect journalists. By the way, that wouldn't
just protect mainstream journalists, Like somebody who would benefit it
from right now is Catherine Herrits, who's being sued by
(31:30):
the Biden administration for not revealing a source for her
when she was at Fox. So I mean, like this
is just works for journalists period. I wish the I mean,
I guess the Republican House wouldn't pass it, but in
any case, yeah, I mean, of course I'm concerned. And
(31:51):
I also think that the number of Republicans who are
willing to speak up against the ex sesses of the
Trump administration seems smaller now than it did during his
first term. So yeah, I mean, look, we'll see what happens.
I'm just going to cover him and let the chips
(32:13):
fall where they may. But separately, that other stuff that
he does, whether it's you know, the libel laws or
leak investigations or attacking us, yeah, it's not pleasant, but
it doesn't affect the job.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
You said it before a few times in interviews that
the job of a journalist is not to be liked.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
I agree with this wholeheartedly because that's yes.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
And I succeed very much at that part of it.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
That is not That is definitely the job.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
But that being said, it seems like in today's media environment,
the level of distrust and dissatisfaction that people have with
journalists is probably the highest I've certainly ever experienced.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
In my career.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
Yeah, is this something that you feel like journalists earned
or is this part of a larger sort of cultural
issue that has to deal with misinformation and disinformation in
those kinds of things.
Speaker 3 (33:08):
The answer is yes. I mean, you know, we have
we have earned some of it, and any journalist who
doesn't think that we could have done things better in
the last twenty years, let's say, because I think it
precedes Trump. I think you've got to go back to
the Iraq War and failures there. But yeah, we've earned
(33:34):
We've earned a lot of it. I think there's also
a great degree of other parts of this animosity towards
journalism that are not of our doing. I think, first
of all, it's in the It is now perfectly acceptable,
or considered perfectly acceptable for politicians to attack journalists for
(34:00):
asking questions and to demonize us as left wing hacks
or right wing hacks or whatever. And that is I mean,
it's not a new thing, but it is. It seems
more widespread. And it seems like in the age of
the Internet and social media and clicks and likes and
(34:22):
all that there is an incentive structure built in for
bad faith actors who literally make money attacking let's say,
Maggie Haberman, who are not really operating in good faith
in terms of their criticism. They just know there is
(34:43):
a is a choir to be preached to that none
of this is this group's fault. Whether it's Democrats or Republicans,
it's all the New York Times, or it's all you know,
Jake Tapper or whatever. And I think that's part of
it too, And I'm not I'm not complaining about it.
(35:04):
It is what it is, and that's just what we
have to deal with it. But that's part of it too.
And you know, you just look at the way that
the Biden White House and I'm going to give a
Biden example here because God knows there's going to be
plenty of Trump examples in my future. But you look
(35:25):
at the way that the Biden White House reacted to
any questions about his age, his frailty, his acuity, his
ability to communicate, and it was a very aggressive response,
most of it behind the scenes, most of it the
Biden campaign, the Biden White House ginning up outrage from
(35:47):
progressive influencers and Democratic lawmakers to personally attack reporters. And
so that's part of it too. Again. And yes, Donald
Trump is a may You're part of it. And please,
nobody listening should think that I am downplaying that just
because I haven't talked as much about it. But like,
there's a lot of stuff, and you know, faith in
(36:10):
institutions is down in general, and you know, I just
think we have a lot of work to do in
the media to earn that trust back. Part of it is,
you know, people like you who you're able to show
yourself and reveal more of who you are and explain
your thought process and your positions in a longer format.
(36:32):
That makes your viewers and listeners have more faith in
you because they feel like they know you better. And
I don't. And again I'm not complaining about this, but
I don't really get that opportunity. So that's one of
the reasons why I think the Gmails of the world,
and the and the Rogans of the world and like
people who have longer format are able to achieve more
(36:55):
trust because people feel like they know you better. And
that's something that's people in legacy media like me have
to figure out how to negotiate that.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
Yeah, I'm glad you said that because that was where
my next question was going. I know, a little short
on time, but I would like you as you know,
as part of this election out autopsy, people have looked
at the influence of podcasters. You know, you have a
huge percentage of Americans who get their news through podcasts.
Joe Rogan has the largest podcast audience I believe now
and has had it.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
I know on.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
Spotify specifically for the last four years. We know that
it is a huge audience and how they're shaping news
and they're more influential than say, your news programs or
how sixty minutes used to be as a career journalist.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
What do you think this has done to the industry,
whether good or bad?
Speaker 2 (37:43):
Like, how has the rise of influencers and podcasters having
more impact in cutting through with things than traditional news media.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
How do you feel like that's reshaped our industry.
Speaker 3 (37:54):
I mean, first of all, it's like complaining about the weather.
It just is like, you know whether or not I'd
like it, and I happen to, But but whether or
not I do is irrelevant. Look, your success brogan success.
These are things that happened organically because people liked it.
It wasn't like the Koch Brothers came in and said
(38:16):
we're going to we're gonna take this stand up comedian
who likes mixed martial arts and was a big player
on news radio and turn him into a conservative force. Like,
first of all, he's not even a conservative force, Like
he's kind of got a way of looking at the world.
Sometimes it's conservadi. Yes, he endorsed trump, et cetera, et cetera.
But he was like a Bernie guy a few years ago.
I mean, like he's not. I don't know. It's more
(38:39):
complicated than I think when Democrats say we need to
find our own Rogan, it's it's much more complicated than that.
It has more to do with First of all, you
got to meet people where they are, if you're a
politician or if your legacy media and like so there
needs to be more of us going on podcasts and
(39:01):
politicians too going on that's where people are. That doesn't
mean there isn't a place for I mean, Joe Rogan
is not going to bring you news from downtown Alepo,
uh you know uh, or like an analysis of it
or by the way, like he's not going to moderate
a debate. And I'm not saying he shouldn't, but I'm
(39:23):
just saying, like this is not going to happen. There's
still is a role for traditional media. So how do
we figure out how to how to live in this world?
What do we do and how to Like people are
going to podcasts to either for entertainment or for comfort
or for information or whatever it is, how do we
(39:45):
take advantage of that for our product, which is different
to bring people to our product or to maybe do
we need to do I mean, Audi Cornish does a
great podcast is but maybe does she need to do
more of a Joe Rogan? Not her, but like I
don't want to pick on audio. She's amazing, Like maybe
we need do we need to have like a newsperson
(40:06):
doing something more like that? I don't know, but like, look,
this is what people like personally. I listen to podcasts
all the time. I listen to you, I listened to Rogan,
I listened to the Lonely Island Seth Meyers podcast, which
is just every week they look at one of the
digital shorts that they did on SNL ten years ago
and talked about it like that's what I do you know?
(40:27):
So how do we figure that out?
Speaker 2 (40:29):
And finally, because not only do I ask people who
have graciously agreed to be guests on politics about their
favorite athletes and sports memories that made them love sports
always in the podcast with a messy question, now you wrote, okay, yes,
sarcial controversy Jake right here, all right now. You wrote
in a CNA piece about your fandom, and this was
(40:51):
following the Eagles twenty eighteen Super Bowl victory over those
Patriots that you love so much. You wrote that when
that ball bounced slipped me into the zone. I can
honestly say that only the joy I experienced at my
wedding and the birth of my two children came close.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
Be honest, Jake, would you rate truly winning a Super
Bowl over your marriage and your children and the birth
and your children?
Speaker 3 (41:16):
Definitely not over the birth of my children. Definitely not.
Definitely not over the marriage. I will, I will. I
will confess that I find weddings a little I mean,
it's a lot of people, it's a lot of family,
it's a lot of people you don't know. I mean,
(41:38):
I love my wife dearly. I'm so happy that we're married.
But was I smiling more at the twenty eighteen Super
Bowl than.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
You did on your weddingday?
Speaker 3 (41:51):
I'm getting.
Speaker 1 (41:53):
It was.
Speaker 3 (41:53):
It was where it was. It's close. It's a close call.
It's a close call. Let me just put it that way.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
It's a close you decide, Jake Tappart telling the truth
right now? Do you think do you think Jake smile
smiling or Philly super Bowl?
Speaker 3 (42:08):
I'm sorry, I say the amount. The amount I was
smiling ear to ear for the twenty four hours after
that Super Bowl victory, which I had never experienced in
my life, was amazing and it is surpassed by the
mount I have smiled in my eighteen years of marriage
(42:29):
to my wife. So the marriage itself more joyous than
the Super Bowl. And that's where I'm going to end
that answer.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
This is a seasoned married man, Ladies and gentlemen, he
knew how to effectively beg THETTL out of that question. Well, Jake,
thank you so much for joining me here on politics,
and more importantly, thank you for your daily contributions, you know,
to journalism, one of our last lives of defense out there.
Speaker 3 (42:54):
Bro Well, we love having you on the show, Jamal
so so thank you so much for honoring me. But
but please come back and visit us soon on air
because we love having you.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
You know what, when Philly wins that Super Bowl, I'll
be back.
Speaker 3 (43:10):
Before that.
Speaker 1 (43:12):
Come on, Take care, Jake.
Speaker 3 (43:16):
That wasn't That was a messy question.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
One more segment to go, and you guys know what
that means. I got questions to answer up next, your
viewer slash listener questions, and I have plenty of answers
coming up next on the final segment of Politics. As always,
(43:43):
before I close out this episode of Politics, time for
an audience question. Today's question comes from ex McKinney, who
asked me this on threads. What do you think about
the visceral reaction that black men have had on Travis
Hunter's relationship with his girlfriend? Is that an indicator to
a bigger problem than black men have when it comes
to relationships?
Speaker 1 (44:03):
How much of this is quote red pill influence?
Speaker 2 (44:06):
Before answering X McKinney's question, let me give you all
a little backstory. Travis and his fiance Leanna Linney have
been together since high school, but their relationship really emerged
in the public eye when Travis post to Leanna last February.
And ever since that blissful day, social media has treated
this relationship like it's an episode of Forensic Files. Now
they have been extremely critical of Leanna. She got drug
(44:29):
when she shrugged.
Speaker 1 (44:30):
Off his affection after a game this season.
Speaker 2 (44:32):
She then got drug again because at the Heisman Trophy ceremony,
coach Deon Sanders had to tell her to stand up
for him as he received his reward. Then an old
clip of Leanna torquing on some musical artists went viral.
Now as a result, Hunter has deleted his social media
accounts because it has gotten that bad. Now, throughout all
this drama, there has been a very loud contingent of
(44:54):
black folks who have been telling Travis he needs to
dump his fiance. They've been sending up all of emergency flayers.
Former Dallas Wide receiver Deaz Bryant and even little By
while both publicly told Travis he needs to bounce and
get away from this woman. It's the same vibe in
the commons section of any post about Travis and this relationship. Now,
black men definitely aren't the only ones who disapprove of
(45:17):
this relationship, so it seems a little unfair to characterize
them as Travis's primary haters. That said, a lot of
men are especially triggered, especially famous men who have been
in Travis's perceived situation. A lot of them have been
with women who don't love them but love what they
can do for them. They look at Travis and feel
like he's being taken advantage of them. But there's a
(45:38):
reason I described their situation as perceived. We don't know Travis.
We don't know his fiance. We don't know what's happening
inside of their relationship. We do not know these people.
My good friend Michael Eric Dyson said something to me
a few years ago that I have never forgotten. He said,
the older I get, the more grace I have. I
(46:00):
feel a lot of empathy for Hunter. He's an exceptional
player who just won a Heismid Trophy, and he is
dynamic as a two way player. Now, how he's preparing
to be a top five pick in the NFL.
Speaker 1 (46:11):
Draft should be the focus of.
Speaker 2 (46:13):
Our conversations, not all this speculative drama. Besides, let's say
that everyone's instincts about this relationship.
Speaker 1 (46:21):
It's true.
Speaker 2 (46:22):
Do you remember what it's like being in your twenties
and being in a relationship that people don't approve of?
You have the hardest head imaginable. Okay, And as someone
who is young and in a relationship that people didn't
approve of, I know firsthand all that disapproval does is
just make you want to be with that person even
more because you want to prove people wrong. So, while
(46:45):
we would all love to live in a world where
people didn't have to learn the hard way, that's not reality.
You have to trust that if there is a lesson
for Travis Hunter to learn, he will learn it. But
until then I want us to ease up on him
because I'm also older to remember what some of my
relationships look like when I was in my twenties, and
had there been a camera on me as much as
(47:06):
it is on Travis and Leanna, let's just say there
would be a lot of allegations.
Speaker 1 (47:10):
I couldn't be.
Speaker 2 (47:11):
In fact, I'll go out on a limb and say
that would be the case for most of us. So
thank you X McKinny for your question. Now, if any
of you listening would like to ask me a question,
I'm at Jamail Hill across all social media platforms Twitter,
Blue Sky, Instagram, and threads.
Speaker 1 (47:33):
Please use the hashtags politics.
Speaker 2 (47:36):
You also have the option of emailing me at spolitics
twenty twenty four at gmail dot com. You can also
send me a video of your question, but please make
sure it's thirty seconds or less. Also, don't forget to
follow and subscribe to spolitics on iHeart and follow spolitics
pod on Instagram and TikTok. Politics is spelled spo l
(47:59):
t c S s p O L I t i
c s. A new episode of Politics drops every Thursday
on iHeart podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. This
is politics where sports and politics don't just mix, They matter.
Politics is the production of iHeart Podcasts and The Unbothered Network.
(48:20):
I'm your host Jamel Hill. Executive producer is Taylor Shakoigne.
Lucas Hymen is Head of Audio and executive producer. Megan
Armstrong is associate producer. Original music for Spolitics provided by
Kyle VISs from wiz FX.
Hey, what's up everybody.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
I'm Jamel Hill and welcome to politics and iHeart podcast
and Unbothered Network production.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Time to get spolitical?
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Did you all know that this year's NFL MVP racist
kind disorder about race?
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Now before some of.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
You get upset and start reflexively throwing out words y'all
don't even fully understand like woke and di and Marxist,
let me explain. The MVP race is down to Buffalo
Bills quarterback Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson of the Baltimore Ravens.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Now.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Both of these quarterbacks have had fine seasons and both
are worthy of the MVP. As of this recording, Allen
has accounted for forty touchdowns this season, committed fewer than
eight turnovers, and after the Bills beat the Patriots in
Week sixteen, Alan Todd Russell Wilson for most wins by
a quarterback in the first seven seasons of his career
with seventy five.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Now.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
On top of all of that, Josh Allen has only
been set fourteen times.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Now.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Allen also is only playing with two other Pro Bowlers
on offense, and this season the Bills have beaten both
the Chiefs and the Lions, who are the number one
seeds in their respective conferences.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Hella impressive.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
On the other hand, Lamar Jackson, he's having a better
season this season than he did last season when he
won his second MVP. Now, if you stack his numbers
up against Josh Allens, he's beating Josh Allen in virtually
every significant category completion percentage, touchdown passes, passing yards, rushing yards,
and he also has an overall higher passer rating. Now
(01:36):
Lamar Jackson is the first player in NFL history to
throw for over four thousand yards and rush for over
nine hundred. He also broke Michael Vick's career rushing yards
record for a quarterback.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Again, hella impressive.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Now, these are the stats which obviously have nothing to
do with race, But as we've seen throughout Lamar Jackson's
NFL career, when it comes to him in particular, race
is always lurking somewhere in the background, and sometimes it's
right in front of our faces. One of the most
common arguments being used to support Allen receiving the MVP
(02:10):
over Lamar Jackson is that Lamar Jackson already has won
the award twice and therefore it's just time to give
it to someone else. Now, that's a weird argument to make,
but one we've seen you before in sports. Cut to
Michael Jordan's prime MVP years. Michael Jordan easily could have
won the MVP more than five times, but there was
this sense that voters were getting tired of giving it
(02:31):
to him. People point to Charles Barkley winning the MVP
for his spectacular ninety two to ninety three season and
Karl Malone winning it in nineteen ninety seven as examples
of Jordan being robbed of the MVP simply because of
voter fatigue. Now, not to derail this whole conversation, but
Barkley earned that MVP like a mug. Barkley averaged twenty
five and twelve, and most importantly, the Suns finished with
(02:53):
the best regular season record. The MVP isn't about who
you want taking the last shot, who you build a
fairy with. It is simply about who had the best
regular season and how that impacted their team's success. Now,
when it comes to Carl Malone back in nineteen ninety seven,
that's a different story. Well, first of all, y'all know
I don't fuck with Carl Malone as a staff record
(03:13):
label or a crew for reasons you can google. But
second of all, when Malone won the MVP in nineteen
ninety seven, although he finished second to Jordan in the
league in scoring, Utah did not have the best.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Record in the league that year. But I digress.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
This Lamar Jackson Josh Allen MVP debate is kind of
giving that Michael Jordan Field he wins it every year.
Lamar Jackson's own excellence is basically being held against him.
So much of any MVP race is about narrative, and
the narrative surrounding Lamar Jackson is still baked and how
people perceived him before he was even drafted.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
This quarterback out in Louisville.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
Lamar Jackson is here in Indianapolis, and he will throw
tomorrow when the quarterbacks work out. But we now know
a number of teams have also requested that Jackson workout
with the wide receivers as well.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
They want to see both workouts.
Speaker 4 (04:02):
Jackson is yet to say, at least publicly, whether he's
admenable to that.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Now I'm going to go ahead here and say the
quiet part out loud. The reason Lamar Jackson, despite his
success is still polarizing to some people. Is because Lamar
Jackson refuses to code switch. He refuses to co switch
and how he presents himself. He refuses to co switch
in how he plays, he refuses to co switch in
terms of how he conducts his business because his mother
(04:28):
is his agent. Lamar Jackson don't bother nobody, but you
would be surprised by how many people are bothered by that.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
I want my quarterbacks to be quarterback.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Ye now, people have been using racially coded language to
describe Jackson his entire NFL career.
Speaker 5 (04:43):
The San Francisco forty nine Ers have suspended a radio
analyst because of something he said about Ravens quarterback Lamar Jackson.
Here's what that analyst, Tim Ryan said on a radio
show Monday morning after the Ravens beat the forty nine
ers on Sunday.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
When he his dark skinn color with a dark football,
with a dark uniform, you could not see that thing.
I mean you literally could not see when he was
in and out of the matchpoint.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
So, if race has been a factor in how people
have frankly always discussed Lamar Jackson, why would race suddenly
be eliminated entirely from the equation when it comes to
this MVP race. Now, let me be clear, I'm not
saying if Josh Allen wins the award is because he's
white and people are racist. I would have zero problem
if he wanted. But there is a theme here of
black excellence being taken for granted, and it's not just
(05:31):
limited to sports, and sometimes that excellence is used to
deny black folks their due.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
A couple of years ago.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Variety polled five Grammy voters about who they voted for
and who they didn't vote for. The voters were allowed
to share their true feelings anonymously. One voter admitted that
she didn't vote for Beyonce in any of the top
categories because she has quote already won a lot of Grammys.
Along those same lines, Simone Biles used to be penalized
(05:58):
for her ability to x acute difficult, unprecedented maneuvers because
the International Gymnastics Federation was concerned that other gymnasts would
hurt themselves trying to mimic files, so if they gave
her lower scores, the other gymnasts would have less incentive
to try. When you're black, sometimes there is such thing
as being too good or your own good. I'm Jamel
(06:21):
Hill and I approved this message. Coming up next on spolitics,
we live in a very tricky, polarizing political time, but
not so tricky and not so polarizing that one of
the most trusted news anchors in mainstream media can't.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Find time to be a Rabbit fan.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
CNN anchor Jake Tapper is in the political trensist, but
that does not distract him from being an intense Philadelphia
sports fan.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Jake and I will discuss what's more difficult.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Covering President elect Donald Trump or interviewing Patrick Mahomes right
after he beat his beloved Philadelphia Eagles in the Super Bowl.
That's up next on s politics. Jake, thank you so
much for joining me. And I'm going to start this
podcast the way I start every episode as politics, and
(07:08):
that is by asking you name a moment or an
athlete that made you love sports.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
Oh wow, Mike Schmidt made me love sports in seventy
nine and eighty as a little boy watching the Philadelphia Phillies.
I confess also when Rose came to the Phillies, I
didn't know all the stuff about him, but just as
I remember when he was with the Reds and searching
(07:37):
around and reading my dad's Sports Illustrated and there was
an issue that had him like wearing the hats of
like a bunch of teams that might take them, and
I was really hoping. And he became the Phillies first
baseman and I think that was seventy nine, and then
they won the World Series in eighties. So that whole
nineteen eighty season for a little boy was just was
(07:58):
just really a matchic time in Philly sports. The Eagles
were in the Super Bowl and I think in like
January eighty one or something like that, and then of
course under Doctor Ju the Sixers won the championship in
eighty three. So that whole period spoiled me. And then
there was a long long period of nothing. But anyway,
(08:22):
so that was it was a great time to be
a little boy.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
Yeah, that's a pretty good run.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
You had seventy nine, eighty, as you said, eighty one
and then eighty three. I was like, that's that's a
dream period as a Philly sports fan. But as you said,
you've also gone through some miser a misery.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
As a as a Philodelphia sports fan.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
So how did you how do you cope through those
times when Philly sports isn't quite doing as well is
it as it should be.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
So I have a there's a bunch of Philadelphia diasporans
that that we all text and email and have certain
rules about unbridled optimism, which is not permitted. It's jinxing,
(09:09):
and it's also just part of it. You know. It's
funny because I have successfully raised my kids, even though
we live in DC, to be Eagles fans. They're not
really into baseball or basketball per se, but they're they're
into football, both my daughter and my son. And it
occurred to me last year when the Eagles completely fell apart,
(09:33):
and I think they were I think they had the
same well, they were ten and ten and one, and
then they just like lost five or six games in
a row. It's just absolutely abysmal. And it occurred to
me that my son had only really known the Eagles
as a team that brings pleasure generally speaking, because because
of the twenty seventeen and then twenty eighteen Super Bowl,
(09:55):
and then they were in a different super Bowl, which
was painful, but at least they were in the super Bowl.
And it, I mean, like he really doesn't know what
it's like to be a Philly sports fan, because he
is really just seeing the Eagles as a dominant team.
But it's just part of life, right, I mean, it's
just I mean, it's one of the reasons we all
love sports so much is because it is such a
(10:16):
metaphor for life and the fact that most of us,
even if we're really good at what we do, don't
win the Super Bowl, don't win the Sidewant Young Award,
don't win the NBA Championship. But you know, for the
best laid plans, like Joel Embiid is still struggling with whatever.
I mean, it's just it is the life of it.
(10:38):
I mean, it's the life of a Philly fan. It's
really the life of a fan. I mean, because it's
not as though Mets fans and Yankee fans and Dodger
fans and everybody doesn't go through the same thing. But
there is something gritty about the Philadelphia kind of like downtrodden,
chip on our shoulder, wait till next year attitude that
(10:59):
is as part of it. I mean, you know, there's
a reason why they may they play clips from Rocky
and music from Rocky at every Philadelphia sports game, and
it's just that underdog feeling is part of the ethos.
And also Rocky lost. I mean, as people people forget
that he didn't win till Rocky too.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Right now, I would say Philly and the Detroit Lions
have kind of separated themselves from other NFC teams. So
how are you processing this season for the Eagles.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
I'm expecting that disappointment.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
So you're you're not looking at this same as saying, wow,
they're great.
Speaker 6 (11:35):
We may another my god, No, no, no, And I
have to say, and I don't know if you as
an African American or you as a woman feel this,
but I as a Jew feel this, which is there
is something in being Jewish that's just like expecting the worst.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
It's just drilled into your head expecting the point.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
And I definitely learned this. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
I don't know if as a woman or as an
African American you feel the same way, but there's just
like we're like, Okay, what's coming around the corner. And
there's something about being from Philly that's like that too.
It's different, obviously, but there is just something of skeptical
or anxiety inducing about you. No, I'm not and by
(12:16):
the way, we won the game, but the but the
takeaway was what's wrong with our panising game? What is
Jalen going to do to improve his We all love him,
we all want him to succeed, you know all that,
but that that didn't look like a team that was
going to win the Super Bowl. So yeah, no, it's
you know, nerve.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Rank because I've heard this.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
I have a lot of the Philly sports friends who
are friends of mine.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
But are you a little bit angry?
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Maybe angry isn't the word, Maybe that's too strong, but
a little bit disappointed in Joe LMB because you know,
at this point in his career, certainly entering this season,
he wasn't in the best shape. You know, it has
He's taken a lot of criticism in Philadelphia.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
He has been.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Suspended for trying to fight a reporter in the locker
room who called out some of the issues that people
have had.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
So how do you feel about JOELMB?
Speaker 3 (13:11):
So I'll just say that I want him to rise
to the occasion. I want him to rise to the moment.
And there is an entire city that wants to love
him so much and he kind of doesn't want it.
And there's just Look, I mean we went through this
(13:32):
with Harden too, Like some people act like champions and
some people don't, and Jalen Hurts acts like a champion.
Is you know Saquon Barkley is a god. I mean
that sideline clip of him telling Nick Sirianni that he no, no,
(13:55):
I don't need to break my record for the game.
Let the young guys eat so moving. He wasn't performing,
He didn't know that the cameras are on him, like
unless he's the best actor in the world, and like
that selflessness and appreciation. Look, I feel this way about
my job too. I am and I'm not comparing myself
(14:19):
to Jalen Hurts for say Von Barkley, but like, I'm
incredibly fortunate I have. I'm really lucky. I get to
do something I love. I am compensated for it in
a very nice way. And uh, the best thing I
can do and I don't always succeed and I don't
always achieve it, but the best thing I can do
(14:40):
is try to express appreciation for it and be nice
to other people and this and that. And I'm looking
over at my staff to see if they're if they're
giving me a side eye on it. So but to
set an example and to and and to appreciate it
and and and be kind my, you know, to the
other anchors and the other correspondents of this and that,
and to try to be a leader. And again, I'm
(15:02):
not comparing what I'm doing to any of these incredibly
talented people, but there is something about appreciating a rarefying existence.
And I look at Jalen Hurts, and I look at
Saquon Barkley, and I look at Bryce Harper, and I've
been lucky enough to like meet and like be text
buddies and go to a like a game or two
(15:23):
a year with Mike Schmidt, like one of my childhood heroes,
and like these are just they have great perspective and
they really understand how lucky they are. And I don't
get that vibe from Joel. And if I'm wrong, I'm
happy to apologize and be proven wrong. But I just
don't see that it doesn't seem like he's being that leader,
(15:46):
and I want him to be. One of the most
remarkable things in Philly sports that ever happened was when
Trey Turner was having a horrible slump, and I think
somebody did a documentary movie about this, and I have
to see it. I'm not sure if it's come out yet.
But and for some reason, somebody decided to lead Philadelphia
Phillies fans in cheering him instead of booing him, which
(16:09):
is more our vibe were booers and it worked. And
it's and Trey Turner like had a great season, didn't
make the World Series, but had a great season. I
think this is last season. I don't think it was
this season, And like, I don't know, I would just
like to see a little bit more like there is
that willingness to cheer for Joel and b there is
(16:31):
and and not winning a championship is doctor j only
won one? I mean, like you know, Barkley won none.
Barkley won no championships for US, but he's beloved because
he worked so hard for the Sixer. So that's a
long answer for your question.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
No, I mean, I get what you're saying is that
it does feel that Joel Embiid is sort of it's
him versus everybody, Like he's kind.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Of fighting the world a little bit.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
And you know, I think a lot of it has
to do with the fact that he's add a number
of injuries in his career. I think some of it
is just internally battling his own level of disappointment in
how things have turned out.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
And that's not to erase.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Him being an MVP and all these other things, but
it is just say that there is an expectation. But
I think his behavior is the part that Philly fans
are most upset about.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
Not necessarily, I mean the championships. Of course, you guys
want to win, but right, yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
You know, Alan Iverson, another guy couldn't be more loved
than Philadelphia.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
Never won a champion, never won a championship, but tried
so hard and never at least maybe this is revisionist history,
you know, but I don't remember him acting. I don't
remember him blaming anyone other than himself for any of
his shortcomings. And it's just like, that's why he's still beloved,
And it's just it's about appreciating the opportunity has been
(17:56):
given and rising to it. And look, he's young. I mean,
I'm fifty five, so perspective comes a little easier at
fifty five than it does at thirty. At thirty, you think,
why doesn't everybody appreciate how great I am? And how
hard I work, and then you realize, like just because
that's just not how the world works, Like that's the
(18:17):
world is about what you can provide for them, not
what it can provide for you. And so there's just
a maturing that needs to happen. And sometimes great players
like I mean, I think Jalen Hurts gets it and
he's like twenty three, So I don't know. I mean,
maybe it's not just stage.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Sports loving sports, loving a team, a city in your
case as well, it comes with its all level of
emotional upheaval because of the ups and the downs. But
as somebody who is you know, a news anchor who
is mired in world chaos and country chaos all the time,
are sports all the sports therapy for you?
Speaker 3 (18:54):
They are? I do catch myself sometimes I was because
you know, the apps have made it so much easier
to be a sports fan. And I went through like
a period where I just when I was when I
started in journalism, where I just couldn't keep up with sports.
It just wasn't as easy too, Like I to be honest,
(19:18):
I was covering Obama in two thousand and eight and
I completely missed the Philadelphia World Series run I just
missed it. I just didn't. I was covering the election
of Barack Obama. That was my job, and I just
missed it. And I'm really bombed. But now because of
smartphones and apps, like I wouldn't, that would never happen again.
It is a huge amount of therapy for me. I
do catch myself thinking, like, you know, I'm caring about
(19:42):
this baseball game a lot more than any like adult
human should care about any game. But you know that's okay.
I mean, I'm able to walk away for it does
affect my mood, though in a way that is not
that I have to like say, okay, stop, like I'm
going to be upset unless the Eagles win the Super Bowl,
(20:04):
and like I know, the odds of the Eagles making
it to the super Bowl, much less winning it are
not one hundred percent. Let's just put it that way.
And that is very, very upsetting. But I try to
use the sports for the therapy as much as possible,
and God knows in this world we need it. I
(20:27):
need it for sure.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Now he mentioned how it changes your mood, but yet
in what was it twenty twenty one when you all
lost to the Chiefs, you still managed to compose yourself
enough to interview Patrick Mahomes on your show after.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
He had just beaten your Eagles.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
What was that moment like as a as a Philly fan,
and then now you have to interview the guy who
took a championship of you.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
Okay, so first of all that you did your research.
That's good. They beat his fair and square. I mean,
there was one call was iffy, but it doesn't matter.
It doesn't like honestly, our defense fell apart in the
second half and that's just what it is. And that's
why I was happy to see Gan and leave no offense.
I hope he has a nice life and everything. But
our defensive coordinator was not rising to the to the game.
(21:16):
The footnote the caveat on that is my wife is
from the Kansas City area, so I live with the
Chiefs fan. I'm in love with the Chiefs fan, so
I'm not. It's not like I find they are not
like an irredeemable team. They you know, you can't. I
can't hate Patrick Mahomes the way that like Saint Brady,
(21:37):
aroused the wrath of Philadelphians. Like I will still I
will if somebody's saying something nice about Tom Brady on Twitter.
I will still tweet out that gift of him missing
the ball in the in the Super Bowl, except if
somebody's replaced the ball with the world with the super
Bowl Trophy with the Vince Lombardi and it's so it's
hip anyway, childish, very childish, but I will do that.
(22:00):
And then the other thing is I do this charity
thing every year in Kansas City for Children's Mercy Hospital,
and so I've actually met Mahomes and Kelsey a few times.
You know. I don't like, they're not my friends or anything,
but I've met them and they're really They're really good guys.
So you know, it wasn't as tough as it would
(22:21):
have been if it had been Tom Brady. If it
had been Tom Brady, that would have been a different interview.
I think, I think it would have. I don't know
that I could have gotten through if Tom Brady. If
the Patriots had beaten us in twenty eighteen, I don't
know that I would have been capable of doing an
interview with Tom Brady the way.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
I was might have tapped out on that.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
Yeah, I don't I don't think that, So don't give
me too much credit.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
All right, what about if the Cowboys ever won a
Super Bowl? Could you do the interview?
Speaker 3 (22:47):
I just don't. I just don't hate them that much.
I mean, like and also they're struggling so much that
I they honestly like the Cowboys of today are not
the Cowboys of when I was growing up, and it
was like the Cowboys and Steelers won everything. I mean
it was just like I didn't even know the last
time they were in I mean, they don't make postseason
a lot.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
I mean they're in a drug that's for sure.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
Yeah. Yeah. And also my brother in law lives in Frisco,
which is right outside also, and matt is like that
is where the stadium is. That's the whole championship. I've
been to games and they're you know, I just I
don't hate them the way that I did in the
in the seventies when they were so good.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Yeah, because I would think naturally that as you know,
being that they're in your division, it's like them and
the Commanders that might you know, hurt.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
Yeah, I mean I love beating a little bit.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
I love you had to do that.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
But maybe I love beating them, But I love the
Phillies beating the Braves more, you know, because the Braids
are more of like a fierce rival kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
I mean, the thing with the Cowboys is just that
they have been sort of frightening mediocre since you obviously
the mid nineties. I mean, they've they've certainly made the playoffs,
like they just it's hard to remember, like they were
just a wild card last year, you know, but they
they haven't made it past the divisional round and I
think since the mid nineties that was the last time.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
I just like I'm on a text Jane with my
son and my and my brother in law, and my
brother in law is the Cowboys fan, and like it's
just not even that funnymore. You're so bad. It's just
like I feel bad for them, Like I don't even
do it, you know what I mean. Like it's just
like it's not even a good rivalry. Like they're bad, which,
(24:37):
by the way, I'm just jinxed it. They're gonna beat
us now, I mean, like here you go, They're gonna
be in the super Bowl or something. I just I
just I don't don't.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
Have to worry about that with this guy.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
You know, I brought the divisions are wrong. Yes, I
mean they're to.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Worry about them being in your way. I don't. I
think this season you're safe.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
But you know what I mean said, I'm arousing the
wrath of the sports gods.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Now, with all this being said, given your lover sports,
is it a point as you were thinking about becoming
a journalist that you thought about being a sports journalist.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
I don't know enough at all. And in fact, the
fact that when this post, my friends from college will
make fun of me because I was so not a
sports fan in college and they were, and like for
your younger listeners and viewers, like, it was so tough
(25:28):
to follow sports back then, Like I don't ESPN first.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
Of all came around, was some of us managed, Well.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
That's what they would say, That's what they would say.
But these are the guys who would like go walk
to the gas station in college to get a copy
of USA today, to go look at the box scores. Right,
this is pre internet. I'm saying, like, it's much easier now.
So I'm a much bigger sports fan now and like
so they will make fun of me for you even
asking that question, because these are guys who could literally
(26:00):
like become sports commentators. I think a couple of them
I'm thinking of Darryl and my friend Hillman could probably
be sports commentators and now, just because they know so much.
And in fact, when I turned fifty, my wife through
a party, and Jeff Zucker, who is a sports lunatic,
right he loves sports, and someday if they, you know,
(26:22):
if all is right in this world, like the Dolphins
will hire him to be the general manager or something like,
he'll get a job in sports at some point. But
in any case, he sat next to Darryl and Hillman
and he's like, who are these guys? Because they just
they know everything about sports. It it'd be much more
that question should be asked of them, not of me.
(26:43):
But no, I don't. I just don't know enough. I mean, like,
if there were sports teams, if there were sports shows
about like the nineteen eighty Phillies, I could probably remember
enough about Bob Boone and Tim McCarver and Shaken Bake
mcgride to like, you know, rise to the occasion. But
as a general as a general premise, now I just
don't know enough.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
How So, what was your path to journalism?
Speaker 3 (27:03):
My path to journalism? Was. Really It's funny because I
started out in when I was a kid, I loved journalism.
I did like a neighbor like a neighborhood newspaper, just
like a mimiograph newspaper. And then I was editor of
my high school paper. And then I went off to
college and I did a comic strip, but I did
(27:25):
I wasn't a journalist, and I kind of didn't realize
how much I missed it or how much I was
meant to do it until years later, Like I was,
I tried to do the comic strip, and then I
went to film school, and I kind of just fumped
my way around in my twenties until I was like,
you know what, I started writing freelance stories for city
(27:48):
paper here in Washington and other places, and I kind
of like, oh, this is really fun. And then looking
back on it, I I'm kind of mystified that it
took me so long, given how much I liked it
when I was in high school. And I'm actually even
named after a journalist. My great uncle who I never met,
(28:08):
Jacob Cher, was a Chicago Sun Times managing editor who
taught journalism at Medill. So I mean, like, it's really
kind of bizarre that I was such an idiot about
it for so long. But then I started writing for
City Paper, and then it just took off from there
city Paper, then Salon and ABC and now seeing it.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
At what point did you realize that you or wanted
to or should or I don't know, if you just
kind of organically gravitated to politics. At what point did
you realize that that was what you wanted to cover?
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Well?
Speaker 3 (28:40):
I just always I was raised in a very political household,
and we were just always politically aware about what was
going on. I mean, I do have memories of my mom,
not that I was grasping what was going on, but
I do remember my mom watching the Watergate hearings on TV.
I knew there's a my dad has somewhere cartoon I
(29:00):
did of the mayor, like a political cartoon I did
of the mayor of Philadelphia, who was time this horrible
racist democrat named Frank Rizzo, and uh, it's just like
a little drawing and it's just bad Rizzo, bad Rizzo,
bad Rizzo, which is you know, incisive commentary for three
and and so I was just always very aware of politics.
(29:22):
I just uh, it just took me. It took me
a while to figure out the political journalism was something
I really like now.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
As we as we've seen how polarizing, obviously politics has become.
I'm wondering what it's like for you as an anchor
when you're not on air, particularly since you know, obviously
President elect Trump had made CNN, you know, had a
lot of criticisms. I think I'm not even criticisms if
(29:48):
it isn't even the word of what he was saying
about CNN is far more serious than that. I'm wondering
how that impacted your life and whether or not you
have any concerns as he takes office again, that's being
able to again become his punching bag, which leads to
a level of danger for the anchors who are on air.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
Well, I don't like animosity towards news media at all
from anyone, and obviously he displayed it quite a bit.
It started with CNN. Well it's start. It actually started
with like the des Moines Register. I mean, if you
go back and trace his anger at the media, it
starts it with like the des Moines Register. It starts
(30:27):
with individual outlets and reporters, and then it just grew
and you can even like trace enemy of the people
from I think it started with CNN and then it
was like then he just added, so it's really just
any news media that tries to hold him accountable at all.
(30:48):
And you know, that's never pleasant to be called the
enemy of the people, especially in an age where political
violence is a very real thing that we wasn't fun
then and it I don't know what to expect in
this new era. He's talked about changing libel laws to
(31:10):
make it easier to sue journalists. I wish the House
and Senate would pass as a shield law that's being
proposed that would protect journalists. By the way, that wouldn't
just protect mainstream journalists, Like somebody who would benefit it
from right now is Catherine Herrits, who's being sued by
(31:30):
the Biden administration for not revealing a source for her
when she was at Fox. So I mean, like this
is just works for journalists period. I wish the I mean,
I guess the Republican House wouldn't pass it, but in
any case, yeah, I mean, of course I'm concerned. And
(31:51):
I also think that the number of Republicans who are
willing to speak up against the ex sesses of the
Trump administration seems smaller now than it did during his
first term. So yeah, I mean, look, we'll see what happens.
I'm just going to cover him and let the chips
(32:13):
fall where they may. But separately, that other stuff that
he does, whether it's you know, the libel laws or
leak investigations or attacking us, yeah, it's not pleasant, but
it doesn't affect the job.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
You said it before a few times in interviews that
the job of a journalist is not to be liked.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
I agree with this wholeheartedly because that's yes.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
And I succeed very much at that part of it.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
That is not That is definitely the job.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
But that being said, it seems like in today's media environment,
the level of distrust and dissatisfaction that people have with
journalists is probably the highest I've certainly ever experienced.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
In my career.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
Yeah, is this something that you feel like journalists earned
or is this part of a larger sort of cultural
issue that has to deal with misinformation and disinformation in
those kinds of things.
Speaker 3 (33:08):
The answer is yes. I mean, you know, we have
we have earned some of it, and any journalist who
doesn't think that we could have done things better in
the last twenty years, let's say, because I think it
precedes Trump. I think you've got to go back to
the Iraq War and failures there. But yeah, we've earned
(33:34):
We've earned a lot of it. I think there's also
a great degree of other parts of this animosity towards
journalism that are not of our doing. I think, first
of all, it's in the It is now perfectly acceptable,
or considered perfectly acceptable for politicians to attack journalists for
(34:00):
asking questions and to demonize us as left wing hacks
or right wing hacks or whatever. And that is I mean,
it's not a new thing, but it is. It seems
more widespread. And it seems like in the age of
the Internet and social media and clicks and likes and
(34:22):
all that there is an incentive structure built in for
bad faith actors who literally make money attacking let's say,
Maggie Haberman, who are not really operating in good faith
in terms of their criticism. They just know there is
(34:43):
a is a choir to be preached to that none
of this is this group's fault. Whether it's Democrats or Republicans,
it's all the New York Times, or it's all you know,
Jake Tapper or whatever. And I think that's part of
it too, And I'm not I'm not complaining about it.
(35:04):
It is what it is, and that's just what we
have to deal with it. But that's part of it too.
And you know, you just look at the way that
the Biden White House and I'm going to give a
Biden example here because God knows there's going to be
plenty of Trump examples in my future. But you look
(35:25):
at the way that the Biden White House reacted to
any questions about his age, his frailty, his acuity, his
ability to communicate, and it was a very aggressive response,
most of it behind the scenes, most of it the
Biden campaign, the Biden White House ginning up outrage from
(35:47):
progressive influencers and Democratic lawmakers to personally attack reporters. And
so that's part of it too. Again. And yes, Donald
Trump is a may You're part of it. And please,
nobody listening should think that I am downplaying that just
because I haven't talked as much about it. But like,
there's a lot of stuff, and you know, faith in
(36:10):
institutions is down in general, and you know, I just
think we have a lot of work to do in
the media to earn that trust back. Part of it is,
you know, people like you who you're able to show
yourself and reveal more of who you are and explain
your thought process and your positions in a longer format.
(36:32):
That makes your viewers and listeners have more faith in
you because they feel like they know you better. And
I don't. And again I'm not complaining about this, but
I don't really get that opportunity. So that's one of
the reasons why I think the Gmails of the world,
and the and the Rogans of the world and like
people who have longer format are able to achieve more
(36:55):
trust because people feel like they know you better. And
that's something that's people in legacy media like me have
to figure out how to negotiate that.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
Yeah, I'm glad you said that because that was where
my next question was going. I know, a little short
on time, but I would like you as you know,
as part of this election out autopsy, people have looked
at the influence of podcasters. You know, you have a
huge percentage of Americans who get their news through podcasts.
Joe Rogan has the largest podcast audience I believe now
and has had it.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
I know on.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
Spotify specifically for the last four years. We know that
it is a huge audience and how they're shaping news
and they're more influential than say, your news programs or
how sixty minutes used to be as a career journalist.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
What do you think this has done to the industry,
whether good or bad?
Speaker 2 (37:43):
Like, how has the rise of influencers and podcasters having
more impact in cutting through with things than traditional news media.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
How do you feel like that's reshaped our industry.
Speaker 3 (37:54):
I mean, first of all, it's like complaining about the weather.
It just is like, you know whether or not I'd
like it, and I happen to, But but whether or
not I do is irrelevant. Look, your success brogan success.
These are things that happened organically because people liked it.
It wasn't like the Koch Brothers came in and said
(38:16):
we're going to we're gonna take this stand up comedian
who likes mixed martial arts and was a big player
on news radio and turn him into a conservative force. Like,
first of all, he's not even a conservative force, Like
he's kind of got a way of looking at the world.
Sometimes it's conservadi. Yes, he endorsed trump, et cetera, et cetera.
But he was like a Bernie guy a few years ago.
I mean, like he's not. I don't know. It's more
(38:39):
complicated than I think when Democrats say we need to
find our own Rogan, it's it's much more complicated than that.
It has more to do with First of all, you
got to meet people where they are, if you're a
politician or if your legacy media and like so there
needs to be more of us going on podcasts and
(39:01):
politicians too going on that's where people are. That doesn't
mean there isn't a place for I mean, Joe Rogan
is not going to bring you news from downtown Alepo,
uh you know uh, or like an analysis of it
or by the way, like he's not going to moderate
a debate. And I'm not saying he shouldn't, but I'm
(39:23):
just saying, like this is not going to happen. There's
still is a role for traditional media. So how do
we figure out how to how to live in this world?
What do we do and how to Like people are
going to podcasts to either for entertainment or for comfort
or for information or whatever it is, how do we
(39:45):
take advantage of that for our product, which is different
to bring people to our product or to maybe do
we need to do I mean, Audi Cornish does a
great podcast is but maybe does she need to do
more of a Joe Rogan? Not her, but like I
don't want to pick on audio. She's amazing, Like maybe
we need do we need to have like a newsperson
(40:06):
doing something more like that? I don't know, but like, look,
this is what people like personally. I listen to podcasts
all the time. I listen to you, I listened to Rogan,
I listened to the Lonely Island Seth Meyers podcast, which
is just every week they look at one of the
digital shorts that they did on SNL ten years ago
and talked about it like that's what I do you know?
(40:27):
So how do we figure that out?
Speaker 2 (40:29):
And finally, because not only do I ask people who
have graciously agreed to be guests on politics about their
favorite athletes and sports memories that made them love sports
always in the podcast with a messy question, now you wrote, okay, yes,
sarcial controversy Jake right here, all right now. You wrote
in a CNA piece about your fandom, and this was
(40:51):
following the Eagles twenty eighteen Super Bowl victory over those
Patriots that you love so much. You wrote that when
that ball bounced slipped me into the zone. I can
honestly say that only the joy I experienced at my
wedding and the birth of my two children came close.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
Be honest, Jake, would you rate truly winning a Super
Bowl over your marriage and your children and the birth
and your children?
Speaker 3 (41:16):
Definitely not over the birth of my children. Definitely not.
Definitely not over the marriage. I will, I will. I
will confess that I find weddings a little I mean,
it's a lot of people, it's a lot of family,
it's a lot of people you don't know. I mean,
(41:38):
I love my wife dearly. I'm so happy that we're married.
But was I smiling more at the twenty eighteen Super
Bowl than.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
You did on your weddingday?
Speaker 3 (41:51):
I'm getting.
Speaker 1 (41:53):
It was.
Speaker 3 (41:53):
It was where it was. It's close. It's a close call.
It's a close call. Let me just put it that way.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
It's a close you decide, Jake Tappart telling the truth
right now? Do you think do you think Jake smile
smiling or Philly super Bowl?
Speaker 3 (42:08):
I'm sorry, I say the amount. The amount I was
smiling ear to ear for the twenty four hours after
that Super Bowl victory, which I had never experienced in
my life, was amazing and it is surpassed by the
mount I have smiled in my eighteen years of marriage
(42:29):
to my wife. So the marriage itself more joyous than
the Super Bowl. And that's where I'm going to end
that answer.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
This is a seasoned married man, Ladies and gentlemen, he
knew how to effectively beg THETTL out of that question. Well, Jake,
thank you so much for joining me here on politics,
and more importantly, thank you for your daily contributions, you know,
to journalism, one of our last lives of defense out there.
Speaker 3 (42:54):
Bro Well, we love having you on the show, Jamal
so so thank you so much for honoring me. But
but please come back and visit us soon on air
because we love having you.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
You know what, when Philly wins that Super Bowl, I'll
be back.
Speaker 3 (43:10):
Before that.
Speaker 1 (43:12):
Come on, Take care, Jake.
Speaker 3 (43:16):
That wasn't That was a messy question.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
One more segment to go, and you guys know what
that means. I got questions to answer up next, your
viewer slash listener questions, and I have plenty of answers
coming up next on the final segment of Politics. As always,
(43:43):
before I close out this episode of Politics, time for
an audience question. Today's question comes from ex McKinney, who
asked me this on threads. What do you think about
the visceral reaction that black men have had on Travis
Hunter's relationship with his girlfriend? Is that an indicator to
a bigger problem than black men have when it comes
to relationships?
Speaker 1 (44:03):
How much of this is quote red pill influence?
Speaker 2 (44:06):
Before answering X McKinney's question, let me give you all
a little backstory. Travis and his fiance Leanna Linney have
been together since high school, but their relationship really emerged
in the public eye when Travis post to Leanna last February.
And ever since that blissful day, social media has treated
this relationship like it's an episode of Forensic Files. Now
they have been extremely critical of Leanna. She got drug
(44:29):
when she shrugged.
Speaker 1 (44:30):
Off his affection after a game this season.
Speaker 2 (44:32):
She then got drug again because at the Heisman Trophy ceremony,
coach Deon Sanders had to tell her to stand up
for him as he received his reward. Then an old
clip of Leanna torquing on some musical artists went viral.
Now as a result, Hunter has deleted his social media
accounts because it has gotten that bad. Now, throughout all
this drama, there has been a very loud contingent of
(44:54):
black folks who have been telling Travis he needs to
dump his fiance. They've been sending up all of emergency flayers.
Former Dallas Wide receiver Deaz Bryant and even little By
while both publicly told Travis he needs to bounce and
get away from this woman. It's the same vibe in
the commons section of any post about Travis and this relationship. Now,
black men definitely aren't the only ones who disapprove of
(45:17):
this relationship, so it seems a little unfair to characterize
them as Travis's primary haters. That said, a lot of
men are especially triggered, especially famous men who have been
in Travis's perceived situation. A lot of them have been
with women who don't love them but love what they
can do for them. They look at Travis and feel
like he's being taken advantage of them. But there's a
(45:38):
reason I described their situation as perceived. We don't know Travis.
We don't know his fiance. We don't know what's happening
inside of their relationship. We do not know these people.
My good friend Michael Eric Dyson said something to me
a few years ago that I have never forgotten. He said,
the older I get, the more grace I have. I
(46:00):
feel a lot of empathy for Hunter. He's an exceptional
player who just won a Heismid Trophy, and he is
dynamic as a two way player. Now, how he's preparing
to be a top five pick in the NFL.
Speaker 1 (46:11):
Draft should be the focus of.
Speaker 2 (46:13):
Our conversations, not all this speculative drama. Besides, let's say
that everyone's instincts about this relationship.
Speaker 1 (46:21):
It's true.
Speaker 2 (46:22):
Do you remember what it's like being in your twenties
and being in a relationship that people don't approve of?
You have the hardest head imaginable. Okay, And as someone
who is young and in a relationship that people didn't
approve of, I know firsthand all that disapproval does is
just make you want to be with that person even
more because you want to prove people wrong. So, while
(46:45):
we would all love to live in a world where
people didn't have to learn the hard way, that's not reality.
You have to trust that if there is a lesson
for Travis Hunter to learn, he will learn it. But
until then I want us to ease up on him
because I'm also older to remember what some of my
relationships look like when I was in my twenties, and
had there been a camera on me as much as
(47:06):
it is on Travis and Leanna, let's just say there
would be a lot of allegations.
Speaker 1 (47:10):
I couldn't be.
Speaker 2 (47:11):
In fact, I'll go out on a limb and say
that would be the case for most of us. So
thank you X McKinny for your question. Now, if any
of you listening would like to ask me a question,
I'm at Jamail Hill across all social media platforms Twitter,
Blue Sky, Instagram, and threads.
Speaker 1 (47:33):
Please use the hashtags politics.
Speaker 2 (47:36):
You also have the option of emailing me at spolitics
twenty twenty four at gmail dot com. You can also
send me a video of your question, but please make
sure it's thirty seconds or less. Also, don't forget to
follow and subscribe to spolitics on iHeart and follow spolitics
pod on Instagram and TikTok. Politics is spelled spo l
(47:59):
t c S s p O L I t i
c s. A new episode of Politics drops every Thursday
on iHeart podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. This
is politics where sports and politics don't just mix, They matter.
Politics is the production of iHeart Podcasts and The Unbothered Network.
(48:20):
I'm your host Jamel Hill. Executive producer is Taylor Shakoigne.
Lucas Hymen is Head of Audio and executive producer. Megan
Armstrong is associate producer. Original music for Spolitics provided by
Kyle VISs from wiz FX.
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