Ep 19: The Politics of Athlete Activism - Featuring Etan Thomas - Spolitics

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, what's up everybody. I'm Jamel Hill and welcome to
his politics. And I heard podcasts and unbothered production. Time
to get spolitical. Since it seems President Donald Trump likes
to pardon criminals, I suppose I shouldn't have been too

(00:22):
surprised that Trump announced he is giving a full parton
to Pete Rose, who served five months in prison for
tax evasion in nineteen ninety. Now we don't know for
sure that was what Trump was referencing, but what Rose
is most known for is being banned from baseball for
gambling on the sport, and Trump's comments set off the
possibility of the ban on Rose being lifted and maybe

(00:43):
Rose being posthumously inducted into the Hall of Fame. Trump
posted on true Social that while sure Rose shouldn't have
been betting on baseball, Trump reminded everyone to remember the
important part, Pete Rose only bet on his team winning. Well,
if that's the case, now, Trump said, Rose appears to
have worked. Now, Major League Baseball Commissioner Rob Manfred is

(01:04):
reportedly considering seriously that is a petition from Rose's family
to have him removed from Baseball's ineligible lists, which would
make Rose eligible for the Hall of Fame.

Speaker 2 (01:16):
What an absolutely terrible idea.

Speaker 1 (01:20):
Now let's refresh our memory as to why Pete Rose,
who had the most hits in Major League Baseball history,
received a lifetime ban from Major League Baseball.

Speaker 3 (01:28):
This is the CBS Evening News.

Speaker 4 (01:31):
Dan Rather reported Good Evening a baseball bombshell inside and
outside a courtroom. Today reports of the strongest evidence yet
linking Cincinnati Redd's manager Pete Rose to charges of betting
on baseball and betting on his team. As Frank Courier reports,
this latest lightning storm broke as Rose pushed to postpone
his judgment day.

Speaker 3 (01:53):
For the first time ever.

Speaker 4 (01:54):
Today, Major League Baseball openly asserted what others have been
saying for weeks.

Speaker 5 (02:00):
Nine witnesses, in one way or another, give information about
Pete Rose betting on baseball or the Reds.

Speaker 6 (02:15):
There is evidence, substantial and heavily corroborated evidence that mister
Rose bet large sums of money on Major League Baseball games,
on games of the Cincinnati Reds.

Speaker 1 (02:29):
Rose was banned in nineteen eighty nine, but for nearly
twenty years, Rose denied that he ever bet on baseball,
despite the overwhelming evidence that said the opposite. This was
Rose in nineteen ninety eight, claiming he wasn't really suspended
for betting on baseball.

Speaker 2 (02:44):
He was suspended for betting on the Super Bowl.

Speaker 7 (02:47):
After all the turmoil and all the investigators of nineteen
eighty nine Baseball signed the agreement was made that there'll
be no finding or denial that I've bet on baseball.
So then if you read that, and you read Rule
twenty one, and you know I didn't bry umpires or
I didn't give people gifts, that you have to believe

(03:07):
that I was suspended based on admitting that I illegally
bet on football and hanging around undesirables, which was wrong.
So I mean, that's what that's the bottom line. I mean,
that's the bottom line. So I get a kick out
of people who say, why'd you sign the agreement? Well,
I'll tell you it's very simple. I signed the agreement

(03:28):
because all I was looking for was there'll be no
fighting that I bet on baseball, and I got that
from the commissioner at Barchieomotti's office. That's the same thing
I'm going to do if I go to court the
following week and prove I didn't bet on baseball.

Speaker 8 (03:41):
There's no fighting.

Speaker 3 (03:42):
I bet on baseball.

Speaker 7 (03:43):
The only difference I'm going to save a half million
dollars in lawyer fees and I'm not going to drag
baseball through a court proceeding.

Speaker 1 (03:50):
During the playoffs, Pete Rose was like, if it's a lie,
then we fight on that line.

Speaker 2 (03:56):
We gotta fight now.

Speaker 1 (03:58):
It is true that in nineteen eighty nine, Rose signed
an agreement that permanently banned him from baseball, and in
return for accepting the band Major League Baseball, they agreed
to not formally declare that he bet on baseball.

Speaker 2 (04:09):
But really that was just a solid for your boy.

Speaker 1 (04:11):
Because the Doubt Report, which was the official investigative report
into Pete Rose's gambling by chief investigator John Dowd.

Speaker 2 (04:18):
Laid out all the ugly details.

Speaker 1 (04:20):
The two hundred and twenty five page report included betting slips, making,
telephone records, and other evidence that linked Rose to gambling
on baseball and games involving the Reds in nineteen.

Speaker 2 (04:28):
Eighty five, eighty six, and eighty seven.

Speaker 1 (04:31):
Pete Rose admitted he bet on baseball multiple times a week,
but claimed he never bet against the Reds. He bet
on baseball when he was playing and managing. But here
was Pete Rose in nineteen ninety one with former NBC
News anchor Jane Paulack.

Speaker 2 (04:45):
Why did you sign that agreement? Why didn't you say? Listen, guys,
I'm innocent here.

Speaker 3 (04:53):
I said that.

Speaker 9 (04:54):
Then why'd you sign?

Speaker 7 (04:56):
What's the sense in carrying on a losing battle. The
losing battle is they had me because of my emissions.
That's why I was suspended from baseball because of the
things I admitted, you know, betting heavily on other sports
than baseball.

Speaker 9 (05:15):
People think you went to jail for betting.

Speaker 7 (05:17):
On baseball, as you're absolutely right, and it's about time
that people start getting it right. I was suspended from
baseball for betting on football and basketball.

Speaker 2 (05:36):
It wasn't until two thousand and four of them.

Speaker 1 (05:37):
Rose had a book to seal that he finally admitted that, yes,
he bet on baseball.

Speaker 10 (05:42):
Rule twenty one in baseball Subsection D.

Speaker 8 (05:46):
Do you know what that is? Yeah, I'm familiar with it.

Speaker 10 (05:50):
Any player, umpire, or club, or league official or employee
who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game
in connection with which the better has a duty to perform,
shall be declared permanently ineligible, permanently ineligible. That's posted in
every clubhouse in baseball, isn't it.

Speaker 7 (06:12):
A lot of players don't pay much attention to the
fine print.

Speaker 10 (06:17):
But that's not fine print. That's not in the field
fly rule. That's not it's not when the game becomes
official and whatever. That's the most important rule. That's the
rule that goes to the integrity and to the authenticity
of the game. So why would you violate it?

Speaker 8 (06:34):
Well, I wish I could answer that question, but I
just can't. I was wrong. I'm just stupid. The worst
thing I ever did in my life. You saying I've
had a little bit that for fourteen years too, Charlie.

Speaker 1 (06:45):
The people who rather for Pete Rose point to the
steroids air, the astros cheating scandal, and to the fact
that professional leagues have clearly embraced gambling in ways they
didn't previously as evidence of utter hypocrisy. But in virtually
every pro league there is a hard and clear line
drawn when it comes to players gambling on their own game.
It invites a variety of credibility issues. In baseball in particular,

(07:08):
has a pretty nasty history when it comes to gambling.

Speaker 9 (07:12):
We have breaking news Major League Baseball has officially banned
the San Diego Padres infielder to compete Marcado for life.
This lifetime ban comes for gambling more than one hundred
and fifty thousand dollars on baseball. He gambled on at
least twenty five Pittsburgh Pirates games while he was playing
for the team last year. He was on the injured
list when he allegedly placed the bets. Four other minor

(07:34):
league players are also under investigation for gambling. According to ESPN,
they could face one year suspensions according to MLB rules.

Speaker 11 (07:43):
Ape Mizuhara, interpreter for the Dodgers Dual Threat show Heyotani,
was fired by the organization on Wednesday. His dismissal comes
after Otani's reps alleged the player had been the victim
of a massive theft of money. ESPN reported Mizuhara initially
set in an interview Tuesday that O'tani had agreed to
transfer money to payoff gambling debts, but then a day

(08:05):
later told the network Otani had no knowledge of them.
Citing sources, both The La Times and ESPN reported the
payments involved a California bookmaker Under federal investigation and that
the money transfers totaled millions of dollars.

Speaker 1 (08:19):
Baseball has had gambling issues that date back all the
way to the eighteen sixties, so the sport literally can't
afford to gamble with this credibility. The one rule of
baseball you cannot break is gambling on the game. There's
also the issue of Pete Rose himself, who was the
ultimate tough nosed player, one of the best hitters in
the sport's history, but he also spent a lot of

(08:40):
years in defiant denial and painting himself as a victim.
Not getting into the Hall of Fame, even in death,
is something Pete Rose truly earned. I'm Jamel Hill, and
I approved this message. My guest today is truly one
of a kind. He was a great basketball player with
a storied career a Syracuse and a solid NBA career.

(09:01):
But I hope I'm not insulting him when I say
playing basketball might.

Speaker 2 (09:04):
Be the least interesting thing about him.

Speaker 1 (09:06):
He's written two books, We Matter, Athletes and Activism and
Police Brutality and White Supremacy, The Fight against American Traditions.

Speaker 2 (09:14):
He podcasts, he writes poetry.

Speaker 1 (09:17):
A lot of you ask me about whether athletes should
feel a responsibility to speak up. Well, this brother has
been doing that since he could dribble. Coming up next
on politics, Former Syracuse great Eton Thomas, I want to

(09:37):
thank you so much for joining me, especially at this
important time as we are recording this just a few
days after inauguration Day. But before we get into more
pressing matters, as they say, Eatin, don't want to start
off asking you something that I asked every guest who
appears on politics, and that is name an athlete or
a moment that made you love sports.

Speaker 3 (09:58):
Oh wow, with so many. I mean, but you know
I've had the honor of being able to interview uh,
doctor John Harlow's plenty of times. I interviewed them for
both books. For my book, We metter Athletes and activism
and police brutality and white supremacy. And you know, I
grew up with that image of them doing the Black
Power salute with his picture on my wall like everywhere.

(10:20):
When I was in middle school and I learned about it,
I put that poster on my wall, and then through
high school, it took it with me to college. You know,
I have a picture of him right now in my
office right here, you know, because that really symbolized the
the you know, his willingness, you know him and Tommy Smith,
their willingness to stand up and make a statement in
the backlash they received and the way they stood strong,

(10:42):
you know what I mean, and everything like that. It's
it was just really inspiring for me. So that was
a was a huge moment in sports. That will always
be huge.

Speaker 1 (10:51):
Well, that says a lot actually about how you were raised.
You said that poster was on your wall in middle school.
I take it that we have your mom moves in educator.

Speaker 2 (11:00):
To thank for that.

Speaker 3 (11:01):
Oh yeah, definitely. She you know, just started feeding me
different books. You know, I read the Autobiographer of Malcolm
X when I was in seventh grade. So then you
know when you read, when you read the Autobiopher Malcolm X,
your eyes just open and you want to read everything,
like you want to learn everything, like why I'm not
why am I not learning this in school? Or why
am I to start questioning everything? And my mom's the teachers.
He just started feeding me books, you know, family books

(11:23):
about Bill Russell, about Kareem about you know, just just
started feeding me books. And then I just you know,
fell in love with the athletes who used their positions
and their platforms to be able to speak on what
they believe in. And you know, it's it's always interesting,
you know, like you know, dealing with somebody with like
Muhammad Ali. He's revered now and they put the statues

(11:44):
up and they you know what I mean, named the
buildings after him. But back then when he you know,
said he wasn't going to the war, when he was taught,
when he he was friends with Malcolm X, when he
was talking everything that he was talking, Yeah, he was
public enemy number one. You know, they were not embracing
him like they embraced him that out. So yeah, I
learned about all of that starting in middle school.

Speaker 1 (12:04):
So from that standpoint, given how athletically successful you you were,
you know, you played a decade in the NBA. You
obviously we're a very highly recruited high school athlete. You
had a fantastic career at Syracuse.

Speaker 2 (12:19):
So was it a.

Speaker 1 (12:20):
Conscious decision that you were going to use your platform
in this way or was this just so much a
part of your DNA that it was a natural evolution
for you.

Speaker 3 (12:29):
Yeah, it was just really a natural evolution, you know,
I mean the people that know me back from Carver
Middle School or book to Wathington High School, they know
this has been me since then. You know what it
was protesting something that was going on in middle school.
I remember the Rodney King verdicts came out and you know,
I started this whole protest and you know, talking about
everything back then we had remember Dare Remember the police officer.

Speaker 2 (12:51):
Oh yeah, yeah, the drug program. Yeah, that's very challenging.

Speaker 3 (12:55):
You know what I mean, like what about this, this,
this and this, and everybody was like, you know, but
that's that was know. In at high school at Brooker
T I joined speech and debate team, so I was
able to like, you know, write my own speeches and
you know, big about different topics and things of that nature.
And we were we were winning back to back state
championships and basketball, but then we was also winning state
championships and speech and debate. So that was just really

(13:18):
always you know, a part of a part of me
just kind of just you know, I played basketball, but
I also did this.

Speaker 1 (13:25):
So as you became more you know, known as a
basketball player, as you're sort of climbing the ladder, so
to speak. In high school, how awhere were you that
sort of how you thought about things and how you
saw the world was very different than the athletic culture
that you were in.

Speaker 3 (13:41):
Oh, very quickly, because you know it was It's interesting
that you know, the we put a name to it,
shut up and dribble, you know, years later, but that
was a notion very early on. I used to get
a lot of warnings and I always tell you know,
I was blessed to be able to become friends and

(14:04):
interview about mood Up to our Roof and Craig Hodges,
and I was like, I was warned about you guys
when I was in high school, like you have to
be very careful because you don't want to end up
like mood Up to our Roof where they pushed you
out the league, or like Craig Hodges. And so, you know,
the fear was always kind of, you know, instilled, because

(14:25):
they're like, don't rock the boat, you know, don't make
people mad. And that's one of the reasons why I
wanted to write the book We Matter Athletes and Activism
because there was this time when all these athletes started
speaking up and I wanted to use it to encourage
younger athletes to look up to them to be able
to use their platforms the way that they are. So
it was a special time, you know. It was it
was right after the Travon Martin happened, and you know,

(14:47):
the Miami Heat all wore the hoodies and Dwane Wade
was talking about it and brand and you know, all
these different So I wanted to interview all of them
and see what, you know, made them, really push them
to really come out on these topics because you know,
it was kind of quiet with athletes for a while.
You had you know, you had moved up to a
room from Craig Hodges and then you had a kind

(15:07):
of quiet time for a little while, and then there's
just resurgence. So I thought it was just absolutely amazing
to see all these athletes using their platforms.

Speaker 1 (15:17):
Did other athletes you said you received all these warnings,
did other athletes try to warn you as well?

Speaker 3 (15:24):
Oh? Definitely, yeah, definitely all the time. I mean it
was interesting, you know because even though I remember playing
in a uh, you know, in games and different athletes
I'm not gonna say they are I don't know if
they want me to say that, but they would come
up to me like, hey, man, I really saw what
you wrote. Man, that's that's that's that's dope. You know,
I probably can't say it myself, but hey, you know
what I mean, much respect to you for doing it.

(15:45):
And I would get that a lot. And then sometimes
I'm like, hey, you know, you got to be careful,
you know, really like what you're saying, really like what
you and I would get that a lot. And it
was always interesting how I will tell this, but so
so Bill Walton actually came up to me one time.
You know Bill Walton has a special personality, you know
what I mean. He was always the way like do
you like athletes? Like like, what's up to you? But

(16:07):
when he came up to me after the game one
time and he was like, yeah, I read and I
don't even remember what it was. He was like, yeah,
I read some of what you said. I think that's great.
You know, he keep doing that, you know, don't don't
you know, don't be afraid of anything. He just gave
me all these pointers real quick, and then he left,
and you know, then he went back to being Bill
Walton when I heard him on the commentary. But it's
just interesting because you know, there's a lot of there's

(16:29):
that notion that you're going to get punished if you
do speak out, and I was I was fortunate to
never really be in that situation. Even in college. You know,
I remember coach Beheim. It was like, Honestly, the first
weekend I got up there, I was part of this
big demonstration because they started having to let the the

(16:50):
campus security use pepper spray. And it's so crazy, that's
what we're talking about. Pepper spray, Like that was the
big thing. Now they all fully armed and everything, but
back then it was pepper spray. But the but the
fear was that there was gonna pepper spray all us
anytime something happened, and they were just gonna spray everybody.
So I was part of this big, big demonstration and
it was me and football player Ronald Williams and we're

(17:10):
all standing there right in front, and you know, we're
all big, and so the newspaper caught that picture and
it was on the front of the Syracuse paper. So
that was the first weekend I was at Syracuse. So
because I brought me in, he was like, oh, yeah,
I know about you speaching the bait, and I know
you're very you know, active and you're He's like, and
I think that's great. And he gave me a real

(17:31):
good piece of advice, he said, but just listen, just
remember when you have the backlash, be able to stand
firm and support everything that you stand for. And because
the black life is gonna come. And he didn't discourage
me from speaking out. He didn't say, you know, say
be who you are, but just know that you're going
to have to defend your position, you know, because there's

(17:51):
gonna a lot of people be a lot of people
that disagree with And that was really it, because I
get that question a lot like that. You know, how
did you able to do that in college?

Speaker 4 (17:59):
That?

Speaker 3 (18:00):
I mean, same thing with the Wizards late a poland
he was really supportive. You know. I didn't have any
kind of you know, backlash from him or anything like that.
So I was just fortunate that because that could have
easily been different if they disagreed with me. I think,
you know, if they were stoughts the other way, it
could have been very different.

Speaker 2 (18:19):
So well, I'm sure.

Speaker 1 (18:22):
You get this question all the time, which is because
I get it all the time.

Speaker 2 (18:26):
And why don't more athletes speak out?

Speaker 1 (18:29):
I hear, you know, I get this question commonly, and
I don't know to what's a degree in which people
would be satisfied in terms of number of athletes who
spoke out, But as someone who you know lives in
that community, is very much a part of that athlete community,
and black athlete community in particular, what are some of
the reasons that you see that prevent athletes from speaking out? Because,

(18:53):
at least from what I've observed, and I'll shut up
and let you answer, is that a lot of times
they talk themselves out of it where they even know
if there will be any consequences, they just sort of
assume there will be and then that's it.

Speaker 2 (19:06):
They're just like, no, I'm not gonna do it.

Speaker 1 (19:07):
But what have you found in that community as some
reasons why more athletes aren't more vocal about the social
and political issues they care about.

Speaker 3 (19:18):
I think there was a resurgence for a little while,
you know, especially after George Floyd with the whole country
you know, kind of woke up and said, oh wow,
you know, police brutality is an issue, you know, I
don't I don't know, well, I don't know. It's just
because we were in the pandemic and everybody was at
home and they was just on video, even though there
was a lot of other you know, horrific instances that
were on video as well, but that one in particular

(19:38):
really struck the nerve with a lot of different people
in the country. And you saw a lot of people,
you know, not just athletes, but a lot of people
just really you know, speaking out around that. But as
far as athletes in particular, you know, it's interesting because
you have a situation like a like a Colon Kaeperneck
and he, you know, took a knee and was very

(19:58):
specific about why he was taking it. It wasn't like
it was ambiguous, like nobody knew what his issue was
or what was going on. He was very specific. You know,
he said it was police brutality, the political process. He
thought that there should be you know, more options, and
you know, he said racism, he said it, but not
the veterans, not that. He was very specific. And immediately

(20:19):
it just got hijacked and it was like, you know,
he's disrespecting the veterans, he's disrespecting this, he's anti American.
And it was so much backlash immediately, mainly coming from Trump,
and then right after that, he was like if that
sob off of the field, he's fired. He should never
do it. And it's so interesting because now we're dealing
with a situation where you have Elon Musk giving a

(20:40):
Nazi salute, but everybody's okay with it. There's no problem.
Though he didn't really mean it that way. It might
have looked like that, but it wasn't really what it was.
And I was like, wow, But the backlash that happen
it received when he specifically said what he was doing,
so athletes see that, and it was done that way,
I believe to really send a message to other athletes

(21:02):
kind of just to stay in line, you know what
I mean that if you go beyond this, you know
this will also happen to you. The same thing with
Kyrie Irving, you know, and going back to the Elon
must thing. The ADL has no problems with Eli Musk.
They said, hey, you know, it wasn't anti Semitic and
there was nothing wrong with it. Nothing to see here,
go about your business. But you remember the hell they

(21:25):
put Kyrie Irving through when he shared that link.

Speaker 1 (21:28):
Oh yeah, I mean they made him do a ten
point power presentation, serve to be back in the league.

Speaker 2 (21:34):
And you know, listen, I'll be frank.

Speaker 1 (21:36):
I was while I was critical of the link he
shared because I watched that movie and it's terrible. I
never thought the punishment fit the quote unquote crime. Never
And I was just like, you know, there's one thing
to post something in error, and especially if you know Kyrie,
it's not really in his character.

Speaker 2 (21:54):
He's not a hateful person.

Speaker 1 (21:55):
Like he's very observant, he's very knowledgeable, he's very thoughtful,
and he I thought.

Speaker 2 (21:59):
He just made a mistake. Okay, that's it.

Speaker 1 (22:01):
Nothing else to see here, But between it felt like
extortion from the Anti Defamation League.

Speaker 2 (22:07):
That's the ADL.

Speaker 1 (22:08):
If people want to know, it felt like they were
extorting him to try to prove a point. And to
your point, and you pointed this out on social media,
here's Elon Musk, who is arguably the most powerful person
in the world right now because he is our president
in his back pocket. Here he is doing a fall
on Nazi salute, not just once, but twice, right, And

(22:29):
this would be it would be maybe easier if you
wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt, if
he didn't boost Nazi content on his platform all the time.
So he's very much staying in line with the things
that he supports. And that's why people are like, oh, yeah,
that was definitely a Nazi salute. And by the way,
if the people were actually nazis considered a Nazi salute,

(22:51):
it's a Nazi salut. It's just it doesn't there's no
guesswork to it here. People, he did that and on stage,
and this is somebody who will be very much be
entrench in American government. But you know, getting back to
your point, so you see all these signal boosts, what
happened with Kyrie Colin Kaepernick, these are in your mind,

(23:12):
these are signals, loud signals being said to athletes, Hey,
you better stay in your place, if you if you
want to maintain this lifestyle in this fame that many
as many of them see it that we've allowed you
to have.

Speaker 3 (23:26):
No, definitely, I mean, and going back to Kyrie with
the documentary, because I watched it as well, I mean,
he said, he tweeted out the link and said, listen,
I don't agree with everything in here, but I think
that everybody should watch this. There's a lot of good
information in here. He's like, I think you should watch
this and that was enough to say to bring the
you know, theory of the ad L. But you know

(23:48):
what I mean, the league. Remember they're going to kick
him out the league. The conversation on around social media
and around it's like, oh, no, he doesn't even deserve
to be in the NBA anymore.

Speaker 2 (23:58):
And I'm like, wow, that's yeah. That that advance reads
a lot like.

Speaker 3 (24:04):
You said, everything that he had to do, he had
to meet with the specific you know, Jewish leaders of
the ADL's preference and their choice. He had to donate
to the specific organizations of his choice, he had to
sit down way That's why I.

Speaker 2 (24:18):
Said it felt like extortion. I was like, oh, were
they extorted?

Speaker 3 (24:21):
Guess? So to go back to the question, as you
see something as horrific as a genocide that's happening, that
was happening in Israel, and I'm sure there are a
lot of players because I see them and I get
the messages from them when I'm tweeting something and posting something,
or they say, Okay, I don't know if I could
even like this, but you know what I mean, like
they're not even Dwight Howard said he tweeted Free Palestine

(24:43):
and immediately got all these calls and everything. No, no, no,
you can't say that, you can't do it, And I'm like, wow. So,
so when you have scare tactics like that happening, then
you're gonna have athletes being advised not to speak out,
to be careful what you can speak out. There's certain
topics that you really are not allowed to have a
position on, and Israel and Palestine is one of them.

(25:06):
And it's one of those things where you know, there
was no there was no shock that there was silence
on that top For me personally, after everything that happened
with Kyrie, you know, I think that it was encouraging
to see athletes talk about police brutality. I did, you know,

(25:28):
a lot of work with the family members of the
victims of police brutality. So Emerald Gardner, you know, I
wrote wrote her book with her, and you know, she's
telling her stories and athletes really and it's interesting because
a lot of people with the criticism like, oh, what
does it mean for an athlete to wear a shirt
or something like that, And all you have to do
is just listen to them, you know, I mean, listen

(25:49):
to the family members of the victims of police brutality,
Like Emerald said at that time when her father was
killed by Daniel Pattalao and NYPD, every time she turned
on the news, turned on anything, it was just people
justifying why her father deserved to die, like he was
doing this wrong. He was selling a loose cigarette and
he wasn't you know, he didn't respond quick enough when

(26:11):
they said, you know, on the ground, whatever it was,
there's different reasons of why. So then you have a
Derrick Rose and Kyrie Irving and Lebron wearing that I
Can't Braeve shirt and support of her. She said it
met everything, you know, so talking to two family members,
it means a lot when athletes speak out, and that's
why I really wanted to show people, you know, listen

(26:34):
to them like there, it means a lot. You know.
People will say it's not that important, it's not really activism.
I've gotten to debates with Bill Rowden, who I have
a lot of respect for, but he's like, but isn't
really activism to wear a T shirt? Is it really
activism to do a tweet? I'm like, activism has many
different forms, you know what I mean? And the technology
now is different now, so yes, it means a lot

(26:56):
to them, and athletes really stepped up well in a
lot of different ways. Different NBA players, football players, and
rallied around different different victims of police brutality of their
family in a really significant way. So I thought that
was beautiful to see.

Speaker 1 (27:13):
Yeah, and I would say, obviously, like one of the
cases that I think or examples that fit in there
is Trayvon Martin because people, you know, maybe some people
either have forgotten or weren't really kind of experiencing it
in real time, but you know, the Samford police, they
had no initial thoughts of charging George Zimmerman with anything.

(27:37):
And when the Miami Heat wore the hoodies to symbolize
what had happened to Trayvon Martin, to bring our attention
to what was happening in Sanford, Florida, that changed the game.
And as you said, even though to some people they
might say, Oh, it's just a T shirt, or it's
just a hoodie, or it's just this, I was like,
those symbolic gestures not only mean a lot to the families,

(27:58):
they also they create a sense of movement that happens
behind those there are signal boosts. That's so loud that
it's hard not to demand the impact. Now, you the
one thing about you when you speak out, you don't
pick the light stuff, all right, you don't pick you know,
the sort of the I don't No issue is easy,
but you don't pick that.

Speaker 2 (28:19):
Okay, that's clearly wrong. Anti war like you, you picked
this up.

Speaker 1 (28:23):
You know, as you mentioned the conflict that gaysa you know,
very things that are very emotional that tend to create
a lot of I hate to say controversy because some
of it shouldn't be controversial, but you know they did
to drum up a certain kind of backlash. So has
there ever been a time where you have stepped out

(28:44):
there and you kind of regretted speaking.

Speaker 3 (28:46):
Out, not regretted, maybe surprised at the level of backlash.
You know, I remember when I when I first spoke
out against the invasion of Iraq, and this is why
I was here playing with the wizards. And you know,
I've spoken different. You know, small rallies around the city.
You know in d C. That's always something going on, right,
So I would I would do poetry and spoken word.

(29:06):
O would you know some rallies would be fifty people.
I'm gonna be a few hundred, but there was one
in particular that was a huge rally. And I didn't
know how big it was before I was. I was,
you know, to go there and speak. Until I got there.
I was like, oh wow, that's pretty big. So you know,
I saw Corner West, I saw Michael Moore, you know
what I mean. They showed the list and like, you know,
I'm up next here and I was like, oh wow,
this is very big. So I did I. I spoke

(29:30):
there and that was and it's so interesting putting into
perspective here. That was when we used to still get
like letters delivered to the to the to the arena,
and MJ was there, so I played with m J.
So he would get these big boxes of letters all
the time, you know what I mean, Like every day

(29:51):
it was MJ.

Speaker 12 (29:54):
Is confused, Michael Jordan and so you know I would
get a few little letters from somebody from Syracuse or
somebody from Tosa or something like that.

Speaker 3 (30:05):
But you know, my staff wasn't very big. But after
that I started getting some boxes and looking through the letters,
I was like, oh wow, people are very upset, you
know what I mean. And I started seeing, you know,
you should go back to Africa. You know, you don't
deserve to be in America. You're an ungrateful athlete. You
know this that, and it was really like strong. I

(30:26):
was like, Wow, I'm gonna need some security. These people
are really upset. And that was literally before social media,
which is so crazy, you know, being social media wasn't
even around me. And like that's when I noticed, you know,
people really look at athletes and they look at the
power of athletes and the athlete voice and they fear that.

(30:49):
So one of the things that that you know, I
was fortunate to interview Kareem and that was his point,
and we met her as his activist, and he said,
if the athlete voice wasn't and I'm paraphrasing, but he said,
if the athlete voice wasn't so powerful, then Trump wouldn't
worry about what Lebron says or what you know, this

(31:09):
athlete says, or what Captain they've taken to me would mean.
But they're scared of the influence that they had. And
you know, when he said that, I looked at it
in a different perspective. I'm like, oh, so it's called
a compliment, you know, because they wouldn't care if it
wasn't impactful. And so the backlash, you know, coming. If

(31:31):
an athlete is going to speak out, he should expect
backlash that should happen. They should not be a surprise that,
oh my gosh, I can't believe that some of these
fans that you're me on are now turning on me.
That should be expected, because you know, it was interesting.
Russell Westbrook said this when I interviewed it the way
better he said, and it was after the Terrence Crutcher.

(31:52):
So Terrence Crutcher was someone who got killed in Oklahoma,
right in my home city of tos Oklahoma, and I
interviewed his sister with differity. Crutches was absolutely amazing the
work she's doing. But Russell Westbrook was saying that, you know,
whenever I'm looking around and all of these over whom
to say thunder fans or cheering my name and you know,
wearing my jersey and everything like that. But once I

(32:16):
leave the arena, you know, and if my car was
broken down at the side of the road like Terrece
Crutcher's was, is that how they would treat me if
they didn't know that I was Russell Westbrook, that they
just was cheering. And it's that connection to victims of
police brutality that athletes were making that were really resonating.

(32:38):
You know, I was doing a lot of speeding in
different colleges, and you know, it shouldn't be like this.
You shouldn't have to have an athlete say something for
you to now humanize black people, to say, oh wow,
so I see Dwayne Wade said this. So now it's
impactful some way. But that's exactly what was going on.
When when they wore the hoodies. Jamaris Fulton, who was
terres Crutcher's brother, I mean Martin's brother, he said, you know,

(33:03):
the police, the local police. This is when I interviewed him,
and I'm paraphrasing him, but he said the local police
was done with the case. They were not going to
do anything else. They were like, this is just a
black man that was killed, you know, and you know,
the media wasn't going to cover it. They said that
the only people that covered it was Roland Martin and
one other person. I don't remember what he said. He said,

(33:25):
but the local media was like, that's not really a story,
you know. But then once the Miami Heat or the
hoodies and Dwaye Wade was talking about it and Lebron
was talking about it. Then all these people are like,
oh what what has them so riled up that they're
making this personal connection. And when Dwane Wade said, my
sons wear hoodies, He's like, all the time, they love hoodies,
you know what I mean. So you're gonna tell me

(33:46):
that my son is going to be looked at a
criminal because he because he wears a hoodie, because remember
Harado said, you know that y'alln't wear the hoodies and
the other this would happened. But making that personal connection
and then people were like, oh, let's look and see
what happened here. Then the news started covering it more.
Then it started being pushed in the police. So so
the impact that just an athlete saying something can have

(34:09):
is amazing. And I will say it shouldn't be like that.
It shouldn't taken apthlete saying something from America to care
sure of America to care about this this, you know
what I mean, young black man who was killed by
the police. But that's that's the reality.

Speaker 2 (34:26):
And it was one of on on Twitter.

Speaker 1 (34:28):
It was one of the early social media inspired movements
because if you remember, people were changing their avatars to
them in hoodies. And you know, I think the other
point that Dwayne made, Dwyane Wade made that was especially
impactful was he made the point about how his sons
they walk around in neighborhoods. You know, these athletes live

(34:50):
in gated communities, they live in neighborhoods where it's mostly
overwhelmingly white people. And so a young black boy, or
a young black man, or even a black man period
that is walking around in these neighborhoods with a hoodie
on is going to stand out and it's probably going
to create a level of fear among some of the
other residents. So they very easily could encounter a George

(35:11):
Zimmerman like situation, because that was the whole essence of
it with Trayvon, is that George Simmerman decided that Trayvon
Martin was somewhere he wasn't supposed to be. And black
people get policed in this manner all the time where
we constantly have to be showing our freedom papers all
the time.

Speaker 2 (35:25):
And so that also is why I think it resonated so.

Speaker 1 (35:29):
Heavily with the athlete black athlete community because they're in
these communities where they're not a lot of black people
in them, and so any moment, now if some Karen
rolls up on them or whatever, like, things could go left,
you know, quite easily. And I think that was able
to create sort of a different picture in people's minds. Okay,

(35:49):
so we go from the Miami heat wearing the hoodies
to you know, to this big movement on social media
where you had white people with hoodies putting that in
the avatar to where we are we are now where
we have people giving full all Nazi salutes and people
trying to excuse.

Speaker 2 (36:05):
Those, and we're of course in line for Trump two
point oh.

Speaker 1 (36:10):
We have him back in office and he attacked black
athletes a lot in his first term. What is your
level of expectation for how black athletes in particular will
handle another Trump term? Because I'm thinking about this in
this moment where Snoop and Nelly and Rick Ross black

(36:30):
entertainers call a lot of backlash for performing during his inauguration,
and we see like they had no problem jumping on board,
and it's kind of switching up. How do you see
the black athlete community responding to Trump a second time around? Well,
should we expect to see Snoop Dogg Nelly type behavior

(36:51):
from athletes, Well.

Speaker 3 (36:52):
Hope not. You know, it's you know, I was kind
of I was kind of surprised to see, you know,
and a lot of people were saying that I shouldn't
have been surprised, but I was a little surprised to
see Nellie say what he said, you know, and Snoop
Lad he said, and you know it was Soldier Boy.
I don't know social Boy's politics or.

Speaker 12 (37:11):
What do you but.

Speaker 3 (37:13):
When he was on, you know and doing his rant
and saying, you know, Obama never did anything for me,
and I was like, oh my gosh, are you serious.
You know, it was just it's it's it made me
sad to hear. You know, you remember the movie Drop
Squad Spike Lee. I was like, you know that reprogram,
you know, for somebody, just teach them, you know, let

(37:35):
me show you why, why, why you should not feel
this way, like like just know this history, know what's
going on, and it's it's it's just interesting when you're
looking at Trump and he is doubling down on everything
and even from the the from day one, you know,

(37:55):
there's so many things that you can talk about. I'm
trying to figure out which one to talk about first,
but even take away the jener sinks insurrectionists. You know,
he for the longest said, I'm not you know, involved
in that. I didn't. I didn't you know, condone it.
I did everything like that. And the first thing he
did was, you know, clear all of them, you know,

(38:16):
just about all of them, all the insurrectionists. And and
interestingly enough, you know, when I interviewed you from my
book Place Battalian white supremacy, that was one of your
points there was pointing out the differences of what would
happen if all black people stormed the capitol like that,
and he was like, well, you know, even if we

(38:37):
have the thought bubble to do that, we were taken out,
you know, get arrested, wouldn't know anything. So so hearing
you know, the same people that you know scream law
and order and scream you know, all these different things.
Whatever a policeman kills an unarmed black man a black woman.
Now say everything that we saw on January sixth was

(39:01):
okay because it was done by them. And that's where
the white privilege comes in. You know, even though that's
a topic that a lot of white people still feel
uncomfortable talking about. But that's the reality that you know,
one of the points that you made, you were saying
that you know, they didn't even have their faces covered,

(39:21):
they didn't have their hoods on.

Speaker 2 (39:23):
You know, they went in there loud and proud, and
they did not care.

Speaker 3 (39:28):
Look.

Speaker 1 (39:29):
The last thing image that is stuck with me is
my man sitting at Nancy Pelosi's desk with his friend right,
and he's like, he has she been there, he would
have he would have tried to assassinate this woman. He's
so comfortable in his whiteness that he like, not only
am I going to storm the Capitol, I'm gonna sit
at the Speaker of the House's desk with my feet
up and tell her.

Speaker 2 (39:51):
The message that I'm sending that this ain't even your country.

Speaker 1 (39:54):
And it's just like the audacity of it was just like, no,
they did that because they probably new. And I remember
at the time when all of them were saying like
Trump's gonna partners, Trump's gonna partner, I was.

Speaker 2 (40:05):
Like, they are stupid for beloving this, and I have
to say I was.

Speaker 1 (40:08):
I have never been more wrong about anything, because he
has partnered all of them, even the ones that specifically
attack the police.

Speaker 2 (40:17):
He's partner them too. So it's blue lives matter unless
they are beaten down black and brown.

Speaker 3 (40:22):
Right. But that but that's the that's the white privilege though.
That's why they didn't need to cover their faces. That's
why they weren't in there worried about if they were
on camera or not. They knew that they were gonna
be okay. So so to answer your question, I don't
see how anyone athlete or not could be signing about this,
you know, to be honest with you, when you when
you see something of this magnitude, like everybody should be

(40:44):
you know, even Republicans should be like, wait a minute,
this isn't right, Like none of them were gonna be
held accountable, like they shouldn't even you know, accept this
or condone it. And you know, seeing the different it's
it's it's amazing to see because I as well didn't

(41:05):
didn't think that they were going to be pardoned. I
honestly didn't. But but to going forward, I think the
athletes are in a unique position now, especially having you know,
everyone having their own social media and having their own power,
their own ability to be able to say whatever they

(41:26):
want to say, whenever they want to say it, and
they don't have to go. So going back to when
I spoke out against the war in Iraq, I first
went to Washington Post with my story and they were like, oh, no,
we can't, we can't, we can't run that. I was like, really,
And I went to Washington Time they were like, no, no, no,
we can't run that either. And I was like, y'all
are literally following us after every practice, after every everything,

(41:50):
trying to get a quote, trying to get something. But
now that I have something meaningful that I want to say,
you don't want to run it. And you know, I
remember my guy Dave's iron. He's the one who he
was working like the Prince George County Post or something
like that, and he did a story on it and
and that's where it went from there. But they said, no,
athletes today don't have to wait on anybody to run
their story. They could be their own person. They can

(42:12):
get on their own social media. And so I say
that to say I hope that athletes continue using their
power and their platform and ability to be able to
speak out that we saw and you know, twenty twenty
we saw with George Floord, and we saw after the
Traymon Martin. You know, it's there's too much going on,
there's too much power in the athlete voice for athletes

(42:35):
to be signing.

Speaker 6 (42:36):
Now.

Speaker 3 (42:37):
I don't want to put it all on athletes, because
I think everybody should be using their voices. Everybody should,
you know, have an objection to what they see going on,
and they're so I mean, you just look at these
executive orders that you could just go down the list.
I mean, from changing of they spent so much time
on saying we're going to make lives better for everybody.
We're going to lower the grocery prices. You know, the

(42:58):
price of eggs is gonna go down and all that.
And then now people are gonna have to pay more
for the prescription medicine. You know, that's that's going to
really affect a lot of people. A lot of people
in this country are on some kind of prescription medicine.
So you all should be out raised as well. You
know that they're in every every step of everything that
he's doing. Go from immigration and you know, now if

(43:21):
you're if you're born here, that you you're you're you're
not automatically a citizen if you're if you're born here,
but if your parents don't have all those direct things.
I think everybody should be speaking up, and everybody has
their means to be able to speak up. And the
time of the silent people, you know, it's it's it's

(43:45):
people want to be able to hide in silence. But
then at the same time say, don't group me with them,
and I don't think you can do that, you know
what I mean. I mean, I've had a lot of
you know, social media people could you know, comment and
say if they disagree with something that you posted or
something that you say, or they can mensage you privately
or anything like that. And a lot of times I hear,

(44:09):
you know, because I presented the question, I was like,
could you imagine if President Obama didn't put his hand
on the Bible when he was being sworn in the
level of backlass that it would be. And I said, well,
you know, you don't hear anything from white evangelicals. You
don't hear anything any objection. And Trump didn't put his
hand on there, you know, but you don't hear anything.
I was like, why is that? And I said, well,

(44:31):
because you know that a lot of times there their
focus isn't necessarily to follow the teachings of Christ. It's
based on white supremacy. So I got a lot of
messages to say, well, don't put us in the back
of Christian box or the magic you know, those are different.
We're white evangelicals, but we don't agree with some of
that stuff either. I was like, well, I should be
able to see on your social media or something, you know,

(44:54):
some type of evidence that you're different, right, I should
be able to see it. You just saying that you're different,
But you're going a lot oh what everything that that's
not doing anything. So you know, I'm answer your question
a long way. I think everybody should be vocal about
something that's going on right now and that's gonna be
going on for the next four years. Not just athletes,
but I think everybody should be both.

Speaker 2 (45:16):
That was a very thoughtful answer. You dropped mini bars.

Speaker 1 (45:19):
But I'm gonna take a quick break and I'm gonna
come back, and when we come back, I'm gonna tell you.

Speaker 2 (45:23):
Why I disagree with you.

Speaker 1 (45:25):
I slightly disagree with you, and I also want to
get into your relationship with the late John Thompson and
have a basketball conversation with you, because you are particularly
suited to answer some basketball questions that I have. But
we're gonna take a quick break and we'll be right
back with more with Eton Thomas. All right, So here's

(45:54):
my disagreement. What I love talking to people like you
is that you have faith, you have hope, still positive
me for a long time.

Speaker 2 (46:03):
You know, trusty veteran journalists.

Speaker 3 (46:06):
That is day to day.

Speaker 2 (46:09):
It's day to day.

Speaker 1 (46:11):
What I've already noticed is, and this is very common
in fascist governments, a fascist regimes, authoritarian governments, the capitulation
starts before.

Speaker 2 (46:22):
They're even asked.

Speaker 1 (46:23):
And I have seen already that sports this time around
is going to embrace Trump in a totally different way.
And in part because even though, as you said, athletes
now can directly take their message to their own platforms.
They don't have to wait on some newspaper to say something.
But I think the fear that athletes feel in this
environment because you have between Martin Zuckerberg, elon musk TikTok. Now,

(46:50):
all the biggest social media platforms in the world are
all owned by people who align themselves with Donald Trump.
And when I saw them bend the knee. I was like,
that's going to mean a lot for the people who
use social media as an alternate messaging method to get
out their message directly to people. And so I think

(47:11):
the level of backlash that athletes will receive now in
this moment for being anti Trump is going to be
so much worse than what we have seen before because
these other tools are in place to frankly suppress them,
to create a level of blacklash and the intensity of
it that I think is going to be pretty difficult
for a lot of athletes to bear for where they

(47:33):
don't even want to be involved. And it's not just
social media, it's just you're even seeing signs of this
and entertainment, so like everywhere they look, it's just people
who are choosing that path that you said is that
they don't want to be associated with it, but they
also want to stay silent. They don't want to have
to deal with it either, and I think that's going
to put athletes in particular in a different place. So

(47:55):
I expect fully when it's that time where people are
winning championships, that you're going to see.

Speaker 2 (47:59):
A lot more teams go to the White House. And
you did the first time around.

Speaker 1 (48:02):
There's going to be a lot more capitulation. There's going
to be a lot more bending the knee because people
are already been in the meet or been in the
knee before he even got to office. So I expect
this to extend everywhere. You know, the Snoop Nelly, Rick
Ross Soldier Boy dynamic is a is the level of
capitulation that's to come because the thing that the right

(48:23):
is going to lean on. He won the popular vote.
The majority of people want this, They want to see
this guy. I remind people he won the popular vote
by the lowest margin since Richard Nixon. All Right, so
Richard Nixon was the last president who won by this
love of margin. He didn't even get fifty percent of
the vote. That is not a mandate, but nevertheless, in

(48:45):
our culture, they've accepted it as a mandate. And I
think this is going to put pressure on athletes to
either capitulate and bend the knee or they're.

Speaker 2 (48:55):
Just not going to say anything period. Now. I hope
I'm wrong. I pray to God, but this is already
the signs that I'm seeing.

Speaker 3 (49:03):
Go ahead.

Speaker 2 (49:04):
You can tell me I'm crazy.

Speaker 3 (49:06):
I definitely understand how you came to that conclusion. This
was This is what I would add to that. If
you have the athletes at the at the top of
the echelon who also were exhibiting signs that they were
going to capitulate as well, then I would say, okay, maybe,
but Lebron Steph Curry, Jaylen Brown, I.

Speaker 2 (49:24):
Don't expect the NBA.

Speaker 3 (49:25):
Let me just say, NBA.

Speaker 2 (49:30):
I would be shocked.

Speaker 1 (49:32):
Now, granted to your point about Lebron, no disrespect to
the to Lebron James.

Speaker 2 (49:37):
I don't know that he'll be in the championship conversation
this year.

Speaker 1 (49:42):
You know, I mean to have to have to make
that decision about am I going to the White House
or am I?

Speaker 3 (49:46):
You know, like yeah, but he's still going to be
the Lebron as far as the level of platform that
he has and able ability to be able to speak
out on different things, and he's going to receive the
same level, if not more back last that he received.
I mean, they they see a lot of backlands, Steph Curry,
and then when he you know, they a lot of backlands,
even Jaylen Brown, you know what I mean, a lot

(50:07):
of backlands. So if you said NBA inside, yeah, I
don't think that that's going to be an issue any
more in the NBA. And I think that one of
the things that I that I have to really give
these cat props on is the top excellent of NBA
players that are doing that kind of set the bar
for everybody else. So if they see Lebron doing it,
they see Steph Curry doing it. That's why I wanted

(50:28):
to really you know, interview them, especially because they have
the biggest influence now in the NFL, you know, and
and baseball. I can't I can't speak you.

Speaker 2 (50:36):
Know, for them, but we already know what time it
is there.

Speaker 3 (50:40):
But I will say this though, I will say this,
I hope that there's room for debate and discussion. I'm
not even even when you have somebody like a like
a Nick Bosa or a you know, even Jonathan Isaac
you know a place for Orlando or you know herschel
Walker that was debated, you know, the Arsenal walk. But
I'm just used as an example of people who are

(51:04):
you know, Trump supporters or speaking out you know, in
favor of MAGA politics and everything like that. I think
there's room for debate. I don't want to get into
the point where I'm saying, shut up and dribble if
you're speaking out for something that I don't agree with,
because then I would be no worse, no better than them.

(51:25):
That's what they do. You know, they will applaud all
the athletes. Did you see how quick they switched on
danic Ka Patrick? Now dani Ka Patrick. They they talked
about her throughout her whole career. They said she was
at her city higher, that she didn't belong there, all
this different stuff. They didn't use the word DEI because
the id I wasn't the go to insult then, but
they used the other DEI type language right then she

(51:46):
came out for Trump, and now they're praising her and
uplifting her. Oh she's this and she's wonderful and everything
like that. And I don't want to fall into that category.
But I do believe that whether it's Sir Jonathan Isaac
or whether it's a Dick Bosa that that says that
I disagree with I'm not going to tell him that
he doesn't have the right to speak or doesn't have
the right to voice his position. But I do have

(52:07):
the right to disagree with you. And so there's that
dialogue that I think is a healthy dialogue to be had.
You know, like President Obama would always say disagree without
being disagreeable, and I think that there I would like
to see that more with athletes. So you know, an
athlete has one one, you know, perspective, another athlete has

(52:27):
another perspective, and y'all have an actual debate, you know
what I mean, Y'll discuss, you know, in a respectful way,
but still standing for among your positions. I think that's healthy.
I think healthy debate is great. But yeah, the hypocrisy
of you know, Trump supporters in the right of telling
athletes to shut up and dribble when they disagree with them,

(52:48):
it's it's so evident, and it's so you know, I
mean just you know, you know herschal Walker look at
herschel Walker and they put him up like he is billo.

Speaker 2 (53:01):
It's well, I agree with you about the debate.

Speaker 1 (53:04):
And one thing that I have been, like you've been
very consistent about is that whenever there has been an
athlete that has spoken up, that has politics or that
are that are counter to mine, I never tell him
to shut up. I will disagree with what they said
and will tell them why. I think they're wrong, and
I'll leave it at that. My issue with the media though,

(53:25):
is when Colin Kaepernick did his when he engaged in
his protests, Colin Kaepernick sat there many times and explained
in detail why he was doing what he was doing,
and he was like, it's because you know, oppression the police,
Like he went down the list. He even said, this
is not about the military. Have great respect for him.
B Da da Dah broke down every.

Speaker 2 (53:46):
Single point of why he was doing his protests.

Speaker 1 (53:50):
But when it came to Bosa when he flashed the
MAGA hat during brock Perty's interview Afterday Night Football in
the post came interview. When he went to the media room,
he was only asked one question about it. That to
me is a failure of media because I say, oh no,
what happened to all them questions that you'd ask Conley Kaepernick.

(54:13):
You made him explain in detail why he was doing this.
I think at the very least, if you're going to
be that public about it, and certainly do it before
twenty million people, then I have a right to ask you, Oh, okay,
so you support Donald Trump?

Speaker 2 (54:26):
Why why do you support Donald Trump?

Speaker 1 (54:28):
Oh, he's somebody who's been incredibly found guilty of sexual assault.

Speaker 2 (54:34):
Is that something you agree with? I have a right
to ask you all these things.

Speaker 1 (54:37):
Oh well, he has said that the Central Park five,
a group of black men, deserved a death penalty even
though they were exonerated.

Speaker 2 (54:43):
Do you agree with that? See, they don't want to
get into that discussion. That's the thing is that, you know,
I wish we could.

Speaker 1 (54:49):
Bring this debate a little more center, But a lot
of the athletes who call themselves supporting him and supporting
MAGA policies never want to engage in that conversation because
I think frankly and deep down, they know they can't
stand on them.

Speaker 2 (55:03):
They know they can't. There's nothing to stand on, right, Like,
how can you possibly say?

Speaker 1 (55:08):
Like, oh, yeah, I would love to hear Jonathan Isaac
explain how he thinks that president who supports full immunity
for the police is beneficial for black people.

Speaker 2 (55:18):
Would love to hear his explanation, But they.

Speaker 1 (55:21):
Don't ever want to get into that dialogue because I think, frankly,
they understand that a lot of the things this man
stands for are things that are hard to defend, and
you know, it just.

Speaker 2 (55:32):
Kind of boils down kind of boils down to that.

Speaker 1 (55:35):
All right, I want to slightly pivot from this talk
of Trump, because I'm like, we're not even that, you know,
barely as we record this, We're literally two days into
this man's presidency, and I'm already totally exhausted. But along
the same lines about athletes and activism, you had a
very special relationship with John Thompson, one of the most outspoken,

(55:58):
admirable figures her in college basketball. But what I found interesting,
and I did not know this, is that out of
high school you actually wanted to play for him, but
that didn't wind up happening.

Speaker 2 (56:11):
Explain what happened.

Speaker 1 (56:12):
Because in time, Thomas Georgetown, that seems like a perfect fit.

Speaker 6 (56:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (56:17):
No, everybody knew me growing up, but I love watching
Georgetown and I wanted to go to Syracuse's my second choice.
I wanted to go to Georgetown.

Speaker 2 (56:27):
Sure, Coach Beheim loves that well so many.

Speaker 3 (56:30):
Different times he understands, you know, and that's why I
was always so hyped up. You know when we played Georgetown,
you know, those are terrific games, like, oh my gosh,
the old Big East rival. It was fantastic. But you know,
I just loved everything that John Thompson stood for. I
mean I remember seeing him. I was in middle school,
you know, young, and they were congratulating him on being

(56:52):
the first black coach to do something, and he was like, well,
you know, I kind of resent that. He kind of
pushed back on it. He's like, because I there was
many very talented black coaches before me that weren't given
a chance to be able to you know. So he
was always not afraid to stand up for black people,
you know what, I mean, four black coaches for He's like,

(57:13):
you're not going to use me as the black person
that now has you know, pierced the ceilings, so now
everything is okay. He was like, no, you're not going
to do that. And I always just really respected that.
But no, but going back to your question, I was
in high school coming out. They had a lot of
big men at the time, and you know, it was simple.
He was like, you know, respect you as a player.
I like how you play. We you know, we have

(57:34):
this big man, this big man. We have this one
that's over in Africa now and he's going to come over.
So we have a lot of big men at the time.
I was like, all right, I understand, you know, guitar heart, no,
but I understand. But yeah, But then, especially when I
was here with the Wizards, we really talked a lot
and we you know, got close to you even. I

(57:56):
remember he came. I was speaking at Georgetown, actually debating
with Bill Roman, and he brought his whole team there.
The whole team was there, and they you know, I
think Jeff Green was there and you know, the whole
young Jeffy Green. And afterwards, you know, speaking to me
and everything, He's like, yeah, I've always respected you and

(58:18):
you know, for your stance, and we just developed a
friendship and it was it was really amazing because you know,
talking to different guys, you know, like I played for
I played with Jahattie White, you know, with the Wizards,
and he was Georgetown the whole time, and you know,
listening to j Y d. Jerome, Jaron Williams and all them,
he was like, yeah, he always respected I was like

(58:39):
really he was, like, you know, like college. He was like,
I was like, oh, I didn't know that, you know anybody.
He's like, yeah, he always respected you, but he was.

Speaker 4 (58:47):
He was.

Speaker 3 (58:47):
He was really you know a special symbol of you know,
just not beyond coaching just because he was building men
and the way that he held and accountable and the
way that he you know, demanded certain things of them,
you know, not just academically, but for them to go
the extra mile and how they conduct themselves and how

(59:10):
they you know, how the the preparing them for how
the world is going to be against them, and they
have to you know, work twice as hard once they
step out of these lines because then you're only going
to be looked at as a basketball Like all the
things that he instilled in them is just something that's
is just really special. So not nothing but respect nothing respect.

Speaker 1 (59:30):
Would I would have loved to have seen how John
Thompson would have adjusted in this nil era.

Speaker 3 (59:36):
You know, you know all of the all of the
elder coaches are really struggling with it, all of them
across the board. And you're going to see more coaches
retire from that because it's a totally different landscape and
it's yeah, they probably never imagined that it would it
would be like this, but yeah, you know, the entire
older generation of coaches are all going to be transitioning out.

Speaker 2 (01:00:00):
That's that's as somebody you know who had again a
brilliant college career.

Speaker 1 (01:00:04):
How do you process this in il era? What are
some of the observations and things that you're noticing about
it a lot?

Speaker 3 (01:00:11):
You know. One of the things that I that I
do notice is the conversation and the criticism is a
little bit different now, you know. Now it's like, Okay,
well this player is earning this amount and he only
got these many rebounds or he only got like so
it's always brought into the conversation. It's not just a
regular criticism that the player didn't play well, didn't shoot well.

(01:00:32):
The monetary aspect is always added with and that seems
a little you know, I don't know, it's just it's
just a shift. It's different, and you know, it's it's
it's you know, I think I think a lot of
and I'm somebody who has been very critical of the
inca A, you know, since I left Syracuse, because just
I saw how much money they make. You know, it'sn't

(01:00:53):
an absurd amount of that they make. I remember being
an economicist class in Syracuse and we're looking at numbers,
and you know, we were saying how this infressor was
showing how okay, you know, back in the forties and
the fifties, it was a you know, a trade off.
You know, you get a scholarship, you know, you play
on the team and everything like that. But now you

(01:01:14):
enter all these different aspects of it where you have
TV contracts and you have you know, these these huge
you know, arenas that are filled. You have merchandising and
jerseys you know, not just ticket sales, but you know
all the everything, like that paraphernalia with the player's name
numbers on them. You know. I remember reading Fat Five's

(01:01:35):
book and they talked about how their first year playing
at Michigan it was great. It was, you know, having
a great time, everything like that. Everything was wonderful. Then
they looked and they're like, wait a minute, our jerseys
are sold in all of these different places. They started
looking at numbers the number of times they was on TV,
you know, versus the number of times that they're on TV,

(01:01:57):
but that Michigan was on TV before they got there,
all these different things, and Chris Webber was saying, yah,
I don't even have enough money to take a girl
out on a date, you know. So so it's looked
at differently. But a lot of people, a lot of
sports fans are still looking at it like players aren't
getting something that they deserve, that they have earned that

(01:02:18):
the school. They're okay with the school making it, but
they're not okay with the players making it. And they're like,
all this NIL is so crazy now because now the
players are making money. I was like, so that's the
only part that's crazy is that players are making money
that's not even coming out of the NCAA's pocket, not
even coming out of the school's pocket. This is separate,
you know what I mean. It's not like they're sharing

(01:02:38):
basketball related income or something like that with the players.
This is separate, and it's you know, it's it's you
get you get that undeserving or ungrateful athlete. You know,
starts coming up again in conversation, and it's just, you know,
it's interesting to hear well.

Speaker 1 (01:02:56):
Even beyond the economics which clearly support to me that
these athletes need to be paid and they should be
able to earn whatever is possible based off their name, image,
and likeness.

Speaker 3 (01:03:08):
People.

Speaker 1 (01:03:09):
Younger coaches even worry about the culture that the culture
and the mentality that NIL isn't creating in athletes, especially
at the basketball level. I've had a lot of conversations
with coaches about this, especially black coaches who are at
the youth sort of AAU level, and they, you know,

(01:03:29):
they talk often and criticize often the mentality of young
players being much more entitled that even just the culture
of American basketball, how is the game is played, has
been disrupted.

Speaker 4 (01:03:42):
Now.

Speaker 1 (01:03:42):
I'm sure you've seen how the NBA has taken a
lot of criticism this year. The ratings to a point
were down. I think they've kind of come a little
bit on the other side, but nevertheless that they were
looking at in the early part of the seasons, the
ratings were bad, and a lot of people are looking
at how the game is played and they're like, what
is happening with American basketball?

Speaker 2 (01:04:02):
Period?

Speaker 1 (01:04:02):
So I'm wondering if you've noticed certain trends, maybe they're
not all to blame on NIL, but just how American basketball,
youth basketball especially has changed a lot, and if you
see any correlation to what we're seeing at the NBA level,
So it is.

Speaker 3 (01:04:18):
A you know, the two part question. I don't. I
don't think that the style of player has anything to
do with NIL. I think right now we're in a
situation where a lot of people who are against players
earning money are going to blame nil for anything that
bad happens. You know, I I think that there's so

(01:04:39):
first of all, start with the going to youth basketball,
going to a young a high school. So now when
you're talking about the difference and mentality of players, Okay,
now it's it's it's more of a business. And it
always was a business. It's just that they look at
the players as being able to receive any monetar harry

(01:05:00):
benefits of the business. They just looked at everybody else.
So before anybody that was associated that worked with the basketball,
football department or whatever athletic department were being paid in
some way, in some way they perform. It's just that
the players weren't. So now when a player, when a
coach approaches a player, now a player does need representation.

(01:05:21):
You know what, what you promised me is not going
to just be a verbal promise that you say over
the phone or you say in my living room. It
has to be put into a contract. So if you're
going to promise X, Y and Z, okay, write that
into the contract and I'm going to have the lawyer
look over it. Go Yeah, it's a business now and
a lot of a lot of coaches don't like that
aspect of it because they can't just tell a player

(01:05:43):
or anything. Big, Oh, we promised you this, this and this. Okay,
is it in the contract? But it you know, because
you saw the players at at at Florida State that
that just you know, suit and I'm respect for Lenning Hamilton.
I don't know living Hamilton forever, but he didn't do
anything that other coaches don't do. He promised something, you know, whatever, whatever,
I'm gonna promise you whatever, X y Z, whatever it is.
And they said they didn't receive that, but they didn't

(01:06:05):
have it in contract for so so you know, it's
it's a different era now because you can't just tell
a player anything and you can't treat a player. So
Bobby Knight wouldn't be able to last right now because
you can't do all that with it. I'm just leading,
I'm just transfer. You ain't gonna sit here because before
they kind of held you hostage. You know, if you transfer,

(01:06:25):
you're gonna lose your eligibility. You know, if you transfer,
you're gonna I sat there and lit I don't want
to go too far with Bobby Knight. But I sat
there and listened to during the USA Trials one time,
listen to late Jason Collier and Luke Record. I was
sitting there in their room telling Bobby Knight's stories for
like an hour and a half, the story after the story,

(01:06:45):
and I'm looking at them like, oh my gosh, like
he did all of that, and it's but you can't
do that anymore with players. Players are not you that that.
So if a coach wants to go that approach, he's
gonna lose all these players. And I'm perfectly okay with that,
you know, because now you have the flexibility to leave
and transfer and you're not going to be punished for

(01:07:07):
it by having to sit out a year and use
a year of eligibility. You could go play for their
rival the next year. So I think that is actually
a good thing now as far as the style of
play and the reason why ratings are down, I mean,
so a long time ago, Mark Jackson said that, you know,

(01:07:30):
Steph Curry was ruining youth basketball, and everybody thought it
was a slight to Steph Curry, like it was an
attack on him. He's like that, that's not what it was.
It was that everybody now wants to duplicate what Steph
Cary does and they're not Steph Curry. So every short
basketball player thinks that they could just come down and
shoot threes from everywhere. That's nelessly what it is. So

(01:07:51):
they were winning, you know, Steph and Clay. They had
the you know that formula, and they wore shooting feverwear
and exciting and everything like that. So it's a copycat league.
So now everybody now, you watch a game now, no
matter who it is, and everybody's jacking up threes. That's
all they're doing. And for me, you know, I'm not

(01:08:13):
that crazy about it, so I might contribute to some
of the low ratings sometimes. I remember I watched one time,
I think it was Chicago and Toronto and they set
the record for most threes missed in a game and
it was just breaking three after three and I'm like, so,
I don'tbody want to drive, don't nobody want to step
in closer. They just going to keep on shooting. And

(01:08:33):
so yeah, that's what's happening in college. That's what's happened
at the hpool level. That's what's happened in the pros,
So I think that is you know, it's a different
style of basketball. So I remember I saw a clip
of and I posted it. I saw a clip of
the running Rebels back with Larry Johnson and them, and
they came out in the game and they were attacking

(01:08:54):
and dunking and screaming and everything like that, and it
was that kind of bad, that type of basketball. I
was like, Oh, this is this is what basketball is
supposed to be, you know what I mean, Like, this
is fantastic, but now it's really like a three point contest.
And that's just where basketball is right now. I don't
think it's going to stay here forever, but for right now,
that's you know, that's where it is.

Speaker 1 (01:09:16):
Yeah, it is disturbing often for me to watch an
NBA game and you'll see somebody with a wide open layup,
like kick it out to somebody and they're right at
the basketball and they're just like, no, I'm a kicking
off three. And I get the math three is better
than two, but your high percentage shot, dude, you're right
at the basket, like just just go right there, and

(01:09:38):
the number of times that play is not successful, and
I just am like, why you know, so I get
why the fans they've.

Speaker 2 (01:09:47):
Made the three point shot not special anymore.

Speaker 1 (01:09:50):
There's no such thing as its three point specialist because
of you know, it's a positionless basketball.

Speaker 2 (01:09:54):
Everybody's shooting at three. It doesn't really matter.

Speaker 1 (01:09:58):
Now for those who do not know, Now, you were
drafted twelfth overall in two thousand, which obviously means there
were eleven players taken before you. Now here are the
eleven players and in order that were chosen before you.
I'm sure you probably know this already, but this is
for the people listening at home yet. Kenya Martin, who's
number one overall? Stromhouse Swift, Darius Miles, Marcus Pfizer, Mike Miller,

(01:10:22):
Jamar Johnson, Chris Mims, Jamal Crawford, Joel PRIs Villa, Kean Dueling,
Jeromo Isso, So, if we were doing a redraft anytime
right now, where do you see yourself in that top twelve?

Speaker 2 (01:10:37):
If we were doing should you have been much higher
than you went? Where would you redraft yourself?

Speaker 3 (01:10:43):
Now, that's an interesting question. I I don't know that's
that's the one. I haven't even thought about that one.
I couldn't be able to tell that one.

Speaker 2 (01:10:54):
You know that was that was my way of trying
to lure you and to say, oh, I know I
was better than say that.

Speaker 3 (01:11:00):
I know what you mean to say. Right now, you
trying to tell me you better. You're about to say,
I'm not say that. Whoever you're about to say, I'm
not going to I'm not going to do it. But
I think that one of the things that that I
will say is that you you remember the guys from
the draft and when you because now now we're all older, retired.

Speaker 2 (01:11:22):
And now their kids are playing.

Speaker 3 (01:11:24):
Now, that's what we're saying. So me and actually Jerome
Ouiso ran into each other at our daughter's volleyball turn
and I and I'm so he's down there, and I'm
looking at him because I didn't seen Drome Loisa for
a while. I'm looking at him looking at me. I'm like, dude,
I see him do like this. And we go and
we talked for like, you know, forty five minutes, just

(01:11:45):
like just talking. And that's what I see happening a
lot now. A lot of our daughters are, you know,
playing volleyball or something like that, and we running to
each other or seeing, you know, my son was playing
au seeing different guys. That's that's a special special you know,
it's just special.

Speaker 2 (01:12:02):
See, you're just such a good person anytime you just
like you're like, I'm not taking the baby, you know what.
I'm not gonna let you off the hook that.

Speaker 1 (01:12:09):
Easy, because I end every podcast with what I call
a messy question, and you are perfectly That wasn't a
messy question. I got a messier question. I'll say that,
all right. So you you played with Michael Jordan. You're
with the Wizards, but you also played against Lebron earlier
in his career, and I think he put you out
the playoffs like three times.

Speaker 3 (01:12:28):
Every time? Yeah, every time, Yeah, every time.

Speaker 1 (01:12:31):
Lebron puts you out the playoffs. You played with Michael Jordan.
So go ahead, settle the debate. Who is the greatest
player of all time? Is it Lebron or Jordan's?

Speaker 3 (01:12:40):
Oh lord, I don't want why why I like to
talk about this question so much. It's so it's so
hard to you know what, I mean to really do.
I played with I played with MJ, and he was
an old MJ, but he was still MG. And you
saw different, you know, flashes of you know what, the
stuff that I learned from him just why he was.

(01:13:01):
You know, I remember one time in particular, he had
a bad game. He was old, his knee was hurting,
something was going you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:13:08):
He did have a good game, and at that point
he was built like a power forge at that point
in his career.

Speaker 3 (01:13:14):
And so I come in to the to the rioting
center and come into the locker room and he's sitting
there reading the papers. You know, I'm not gonna we
read the papers, so I'm just dating myself and everything.
But he's reading the papers and he's rocking right, and
he's like biting his lips, like I guess the papers
was talking bad about him, and he's just biting his lip,

(01:13:35):
like just rocking. All those going on over there. But
I can imagine because I know he had a bad game.
So then the next game happened. The next game happened,
and he had like he broke the record for the
most point score for somebody that age or something like that.
It was just clicking on. So it was the way
that he bounced back. It was in a way that

(01:13:55):
I had kind of never seen before up close and personal,
you know, And that was with the knee still hurting
because he was still hurt. It didn't stop hurting just
because it was the game before is he was still hurting.
So you know, what I've seen him able to do,
you know, was absolutely amazing. Now Lebron I was against

(01:14:16):
a young Lebron. He was just really just still finding
he was just athletic, like you know what I mean,
the stuff that he would do. And we were in
so many games where it came close to the wire
and he just took over at the end and did
something amazing, and it was.

Speaker 2 (01:14:32):
It was like.

Speaker 3 (01:14:34):
He was really young. But you're like, yo, this this
cat is going to be, you know, mentioned amongst the
greats of all time. You know, by the time it's
all said and done, and it's hard to put one
over the other because the game is different, what's allowed
is different. You know, Lebron didn't have to go through

(01:14:56):
the bad boy Pistons days or they just come down
and just oh you know what I mean, like that's
the defense, you come down, that's what we're gonna do.
Like it's just it's just it's just different, you know.
And m J didn't play with the freedom of movement
that there is now, you know, because now it's hard
to even really you can't chuck anyone. You can't hand check.

(01:15:18):
You know, things are just different, you know. So that's
a long way of saying, you know, I can't put
one over the other in different eras, you know what
I mean. But I think that you know, there's there's
you know, goats of time periods, and you know, I

(01:15:41):
think that's kind of the because it's hard because everything,
all the factors aren't the same, so it's hard to
really compare, you know, one to the other.

Speaker 1 (01:15:49):
So that's my answer, spoken like someone who's a true writer,
a very nuanced, thoughtful a writer and speaker, A very true,
a very thought full, nuanced answer. Of course, you know
this is this is by an era. We don't want nuance, okay,
we just want you to fix somebody.

Speaker 2 (01:16:08):
No I can't.

Speaker 1 (01:16:09):
But that was listen that that's really the answer is
that as much as we try to make it one
blanket go, I do think it's still Michael Jordan. But
the reality is that you do have to account for
error because there are people who got to watch Bill
Russell and they will argue you down until you is old.

Speaker 2 (01:16:25):
Russell.

Speaker 1 (01:16:26):
I had this conversation with Bob Ryan, the you know,
the famous sports columnist and writer for the for the
Boston Globe. Many times on Bob Bryan's list is Bill Russell.
And I dare you to try to talk him out
of it, because you will. He's you know, and that's
how it works. Everybody is very protective of their basketball era.
But you had the special viewpoint of being a teammate

(01:16:47):
of Michael Jordan and seeing young Lebron as he was
still trying to figure out all of his superpowers. But anyway,
we know your superpower is making people think what you
do all the time. And has a multitude of books
that he has out, all of which are great, and
you know you can find him on social media.

Speaker 2 (01:17:07):
Of course you have a podcast too as well.

Speaker 3 (01:17:09):
Right right, right right, you have to the Rematch. I
do the Rematch, Yes, yeah, and I have the Collision
Sports and Politics Collide. I do it. Dave Sion, we
have our things talk about a lot of different stuff,
so horsely there's going to be a lot to talk
about the next four years.

Speaker 2 (01:17:27):
So yeah, all, yes, definitely.

Speaker 1 (01:17:31):
That's why I told people when I started this sports
and Politics podcast, I said, you know, this is a
really good time to start because we're we're in a
very interesting political time. But anyway, thank you time for
your work and for help make sense of nonsense. Sometimes here.

Speaker 2 (01:17:50):
One more segment to go, and you guys know what
that means.

Speaker 1 (01:17:52):
I got questions to answer up next, your viewer slash
listener questions, and I have plenty of answers coming up
next on the final segment of Spolatics before I get

(01:18:13):
to this week's question from my politicians. Hey, way, did
I just come up with something I want to plug
something important if you're finally feeling ready to re engage
with politics, and I assume so. If you're listening to
this podcast and not really sure where to begin, let
me help you out. Our friends over at the Native
lamdpod podcast are giving that no holds barred political analysis

(01:18:35):
you're not going to find on cable news. Each week,
my homies Angela Ride took Me Across and Andrew Gillum
break down Trump's illegal activity because it's a lot, and
share ways you can join the fight. This week, Native
Landpod will scrutinize Trump's quasi State of the Union address
and so much more. Check them out wherever you get
your podcasts and also on YouTube. And now to this

(01:18:57):
week's question, which comes via email from Raymond lionce and
founder of Lions DN Sports Media LLC.

Speaker 2 (01:19:04):
Hey, jaml longtime listener, first time caller. Two part question.

Speaker 1 (01:19:08):
Just wanted to ask how you felt about player led media,
podcast shows, etc.

Speaker 2 (01:19:12):
And how it's affected the media landscape in general.

Speaker 1 (01:19:15):
Do you think they have a builty in level of
credibility since they were prosed and if so, what factor
does that play and how they are received by fans
kind regards Raymond Lyons, CEO, Founder Lions d and Sports
Media LLC. So it's like this, I actually enjoy the
fact that you have a lot more players now that
are jumping into the media landscape. I think it's made

(01:19:37):
a lot of journalists who are also in that same
landscape a little bit sharper.

Speaker 2 (01:19:41):
I think it's added to the conversation. It's certainly been
very entertaining.

Speaker 1 (01:19:44):
I mean, we're learning insight and stories about the game
that we never really knew before, and just hearing them
talk among each other, you can tell and I've heard
so many players say this before in the past, and
when they leave the game, the number one thing that
they miss is not necessarily playing, although that's a big
part of it. The part they miss is the camaraderie,
the part they missed sitting around joking, kicking it with

(01:20:07):
the fellas, roasting each other in the locker room.

Speaker 2 (01:20:10):
They miss those parts.

Speaker 1 (01:20:10):
And so when you see these players together in those
kind of environments on podcasts and shows, you see why
they miss that kind of byplay and why they missed
that particular back and forth. Now here's where it gets
interesting in terms of how it affects the journalism landscape.
The reality is that when it comes to sports media,

(01:20:31):
if you played the sport before that, you're going to
have a little bit more leverage and you're probably going
to be a little more attractive to higher than you
would say a sports journalist. And what my fear is
is that as you see more and more players continue
to get into this arena, what you'll see is that
that will kind of in some.

Speaker 2 (01:20:51):
Ways phase out the sports journalists.

Speaker 1 (01:20:54):
Imagine being a black man who wasn't a top prospect
of an athlete, who didn't play professionally, but you love sports,
you're a journalist, and you want to be on TV.

Speaker 2 (01:21:06):
The landscape for you is going to be very.

Speaker 1 (01:21:09):
Difficult because again, those jobs, they are sort of coveted
for ex players, that's who they want to hire. What
I worry about the most is what kind of impact
this will have on sports journalism as a whole, and
especially for black sports writers. Now as a woman, I'm
used to being in this space because I didn't play
professionally before, and a lot of the sports I talked

(01:21:31):
about I had no dream or hope of play. I
talk a lot about football, college and pro, the NBA,
that sort of thing, and so I've had to carve
my own lane in this space by my newspaper career
where I covered a lot of teams, leagues, and players,
by my insight, observational skills, reporting, being able to cultivate

(01:21:51):
sources get information that kind of thing, and just being
around the game, and being around the game and the
capacity of which I was, I've been able to really
learn a lot about locker room dynamics, about all sorts
of things. And just always keep in mind that reporters
we never empty our notebooks, so we know a lot
more than what we're saying. But anyway, that's sort of

(01:22:13):
the information and credibility that I've leaned on that has
helped me throughout my career. But I think there's actually
room for both. But it's unfortunate a lot of networks
don't necessarily think that way. I think about a show
like The Sports Reporters, where this was a place where
sports columnists from all Acousta country and different markets could

(01:22:34):
come talk about sports, give their opinions, give their observations,
their insights.

Speaker 2 (01:22:39):
I don't know if a show like that, it's going
to be hard for it to exist. Now.

Speaker 1 (01:22:43):
I know that ESPN brought back a version of it,
but the truth of the matter is the majority of
the jobs now in sports broadcasting are probably going to
former players. But I think not making room for everybody
is the fault of the industry. I don't call the players.
I don't look at them as competition or as they're
stealing my job. But I hope people understand that sports

(01:23:06):
journalists bring something to the table too.

Speaker 2 (01:23:08):
You know, Yeah, everybody that's a.

Speaker 1 (01:23:10):
Sports journalists can't play, don't necessarily have a left hand
or what have you. But a lot of us are
able to see things, observe things, and even say things
that the players are not. And one final thing before
I wrap up this answer, one thing I am glad
about having all of these different athletes that are now

(01:23:30):
in the sports media space.

Speaker 2 (01:23:32):
The one thing I really love about it is that
y'all can see they got some crazy ass opinions too.
You know, the media has taken a.

Speaker 1 (01:23:39):
Lot of shots for some of our opinions and our
hot takes, but as you see, the players are no better.
Some of them got some sizzling takes as well. So
thank you Raymond for your question.

Speaker 2 (01:23:53):
Ask for the rest of you. If you have a
question for me, you can hit me up on social
media or on email.

Speaker 1 (01:23:57):
I'm at Shail Hill Across all social media platforms, Twitter, Instagram,
fan based, Blue sky anthreads, please use the hashtags politics.
You also have the option of emailing me as Politics
twenty twenty four at gmail dot com. You can also
send me a video of your question, but please make
sure it is thirty seconds or a less. Don't forget
to follow and subscribe to this Politics on iHeart and

(01:24:19):
follows Politics Pod on Instagram and TikTok. Politics is spelled
s p O L I T c S, and as
I said before, make sure you check out the homies
from Native Land Pod. A new episode of Politics drops
every Thursday on Night Heart podcast or wherever you get
your podcasts. This is politics, where sports and politics.

Speaker 2 (01:24:40):
Don't just mix, they matter.

Speaker 1 (01:24:45):
Politics is the production of iHeart Podcasts and the Unbothered Network.
I'm your host Jamel Hill. Executive producer is Taylor Chakoigne.
Lucas Hymen is head of Audio and executive producer. Original
music for Spolitics provided by Kyle Vis from whiz Fx.

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Ep 19: The Politics of Athlete Activism - Featuring Etan Thomas

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Ep 19: The Politics of Athlete Activism - Featuring Etan Thomas