Ep 23: The Politics of Audacity - Featuring Kenny Mayne - Spolitics

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, what's up, everybody.

Speaker 2 (00:01):
I'm Jamel Hill and welcome to politics and I heart
podcasts and unbothered production.

Speaker 1 (00:07):
Time to get spolitical.

Speaker 2 (00:18):
I came across a couple of interesting facts about Auburn's
men's basketball team that I like to share with everybody,
and I think these stats are a big reason Auburn
is playing in the Final Four for just the second
time in school history.

Speaker 1 (00:30):
Now, piak this, the average.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
Age of their starting five is twenty three point two
years old. And just so you understand what that means,
the Oklahoma City Thunder, the number one seed in the
Western Conference. The average age for their team is twenty
four point four, so just one point two years older
than Auburn's. Now, Auburn's starters collectively have twenty two seasons

(00:53):
of college experience. Jan I Broome, Auburn's best player, transferred
to Auburn after two years at more Head Stake. Speaking
of Janni Broom, I know I'm not the only one
who thinks that.

Speaker 1 (01:03):
Guy is a dead ringer for Carlos Boozer.

Speaker 2 (01:06):
Surely it's not just me If somebody later discovers that
Boozer went to Turkey and got himself a new hairline
forced a new identity to play ball at Auburn.

Speaker 1 (01:13):
I would absolutely believe it.

Speaker 2 (01:15):
But anyway, Jani Broom is twenty two years old, a
grown ass man dog, but he's far from the oldest
player on his team. That would be Chad Baker Mazara,
Auburn's second leading scorer.

Speaker 1 (01:27):
My guy is twenty five years old.

Speaker 2 (01:30):
Homiekn rent a car without having to pay for additional insurance,
and Auburn is the fourth college that he's played at.
There are hella old dudes now playing college basketball.

Speaker 1 (01:40):
It's the new look now.

Speaker 2 (01:42):
Ten years ago, there wasn't a single player in the
Sweet sixteen older than twenty three. During this tournament, Baker
mazar wasn't even the oldest player in the Sweet sixteen.
That distinction belongs to BYU's Trevin Nale, who is twenty six.

Speaker 1 (01:55):
Now, while you kind of expect.

Speaker 2 (01:57):
That from a BYU player because those dudes are always
damn near thirties since so many of them choose to
embark on missions that last multiple years, these long in
the two college basketball players is just the new reality
for the sport.

Speaker 1 (02:09):
Because of the transfer portal.

Speaker 2 (02:11):
Since twenty nineteen, the average age of players in the
sweet sixteen has gone up, and this year that age
was twenty one point six, so basically nobody needed a
fake ID. But the Transfer Portal is completely reshaping college
basketball in a number of ways. Now that players can
transfer as much as they want without having to sit
out at all, it's forcing a lot of college teams

(02:31):
to reconfigure their entire roster every year.

Speaker 1 (02:34):
Take Indiana for example.

Speaker 2 (02:36):
Mike Woodson stepped down as head coach and the result
is seven players who have entered the portal, which means
new head coach Darien DeVries basically has to put together
a brand new roster to compete for the twenty twenty
five to twenty six season. It is no longer uncommon
for players to be playing at their second third and
sometimes for school. More and more schools are looking to

(02:57):
the portal to fill out their roster and fix their efficiencies.
As of the recording of this podcast, there were more
than one thousand players in the portal. With such a
saturated market of talent, that means fewer spots for high
school players. Now, unless you're a program changing four or
five star recruit, you're going to have a hard time
competing with somebody who already is an experienced college player

(03:20):
and has experienced some success. And even then a coach
like Rick Patino, who just brought Saint John's back from
the dead this season, they still might not mess with you.

Speaker 3 (03:30):
Well, we're not recruiting any high school basketball players, not
this year. We've already recruited Rubin Lefty. Come on, we're
building from that this year. We're not even looking at
a high school basketball player because we're losing Davon Kadari
and Aaron You can't replace them with high school kids.

Speaker 1 (03:49):
Where's the lie?

Speaker 4 (03:50):
Though?

Speaker 2 (03:51):
And sure enough, Patino already has snagged former Arizona State
guard Josn Santon, who averaged double figures for the Sun
Devils and shot thirty seven percent from Look, let's just
keep it an unfiltered stack. If you're a college coach
making millions, and you're presumably trying not to get fired,
are you going to put your livelihood in the hands
of somebody who already understands how to hoop at the

(04:13):
college level, or in the hands of somebody fresh out
of high.

Speaker 1 (04:16):
School whose hands you may have to hold.

Speaker 2 (04:19):
You're picking somebody who already voted in a presidential election,
or are you picking somebody who wasn't even born yet
when Lebron won his first championship.

Speaker 1 (04:29):
The choice seems kind of clear.

Speaker 2 (04:31):
The trickle down effect is that the portal game has
really messed up the game for mid majors and HBCUs.
This year was just the second time in history that
all number one seeds made it to the final four.
You didn't see a lot of upsets because mid majors
were the ones who are harboring some of these hidden gems,
the John Morantz, the Wally Zerbiaks, the Gordon Haywards. Now

(04:54):
those guys can move up into bigger programs, though they
might be a seventh year senior by time time they
do it. And HBCUs are in the same boat. As
Norfolk State head coach Robert Jones explains.

Speaker 5 (05:07):
This is narrow, glorified juco. You know, this is like
Norfolk State Community College. Because it's like when I say that,
not because of the people or things like that, but
it's just the way it is. Juco coaches. I have
so much more respect for them these days because they
have to get a new team every year or every
two years or something like that. Right, you know, now
we got to get a new team every year, every toe,
So we basically a glorified juco. Because these kids, you know,

(05:30):
until mid majors and not just NOFLK State untill mid
majors get the money that how majors have, We're never
going to be able to keep kids here, you know,
for a long time. I say, it's easy to get them,
it's harder to retain them.

Speaker 2 (05:42):
Beyond that, what has a lot of coaches especially pissed
about the portal is the timing. The portal for college
basketball opened on March twenty fourth, which was right during
the NCAA tournament, So if you were a team in
the tournament, you were prepared for your opponent recruiting from
the portal and also have some real conversations with your
current players about whether they intended to come back the

(06:04):
next season.

Speaker 1 (06:05):
Michigan State coach Tom is A went smooth.

Speaker 2 (06:08):
Off about the portal, calling it everything but a child
of God.

Speaker 6 (06:12):
If you don't have spots, why are you doing that
so that I can get somebody better. I can get
a better girlfriend because what I got isn't good enough.
I don't know, get a better way because when I
go to I don't know. It's not a loaded question,
it's one I really have zero interest in answering because

(06:34):
I think it's ridiculous that the NCAA or any other
entity put these two things together.

Speaker 4 (06:42):
Is that people like you have to ask.

Speaker 6 (06:44):
These questions, and I value that you have to ask them.
And I do get upset when you know people are
talking to our kids about them. I saw what happened
at one school that you know, teams get a chance
to play Sweet sixteen and people are entering the transfer
port Kids got to do what they got to do,

(07:04):
and they're really not doing what they got to do.
They're doing what their parents or their agents are telling
them to do because they still got to go to practice,
go in the same locker room unless they leave the team.
And I think that's insane. I think it's disgusting. But
you know that's my own personal opinion. We will always

(07:25):
have an eye on the transfer portal. I mean, we
get it, it's printed out now, it's you know, we're
back to rankings. This is the number one transfer, and
this this is the number three transfer. You know, some
more guys that don't have a clue that do that.
And of course we'll look at everything if something happens,
but I'm not going in to I learned something from

(07:48):
my boss, jud Heathcote, and there is a happy medium
on this and I know this isn't normal, but nothing's normal.

Speaker 4 (07:55):
That's why I coined it. Let's be different, okay.

Speaker 6 (08:00):
But he used to always say to me when I
was working my tail off and recruiting because he didn't
do as much, and he'd say, you know the problem
with you knew young guys is you're always trying to
replace the guys you got instead of making the guys
you got better. Is that fair of the guys you
got that you're out spending time on somebody else and
you're not taking care of them.

Speaker 4 (08:23):
You know, happy medium?

Speaker 6 (08:24):
You always got to recruit good players, and you always
got to have players you recruit.

Speaker 4 (08:28):
Well, I'm going to tell you something I learned.

Speaker 6 (08:31):
If you're loyal to your players and they want to
get better, then your obligation is to the people that
you brought here. Now if they don't want to get
better or they aren't doing their job. Nowadays, there won't
be as many people that are hanging on to people
and letting them. They'll be running more runoffs could happen here,

(08:51):
could happen somewhere else. But the last thing I want
to do is cheat my players.

Speaker 1 (09:00):
Oh and he was just getting started.

Speaker 4 (09:03):
You know, I'm going to worry today.

Speaker 6 (09:05):
But the guys I got in this program that have
done an incredible job this year, and that's it. And
if that cost me later, so be it. But tom
Izol isn't cheating the people that he has that have
been loyal to him for this chaos that is going

(09:25):
on out.

Speaker 2 (09:25):
There, the irony Three of Michigan State's players entered the
portal a couple days after Michigan State was eliminated by
Auburn and the Elite eight, and a week or so
after Izo made this passionate rant about the portal. Now,
as much as I think Izzo and other coaches are
raising good points, and as much as I know at
some point college is going to be full of players

(09:45):
with two kids, a mortgage, and a receiving airline, and
as much as I worry that the high school kid
who went to a public school or neighborhood high school
and then became a top high school player is basically
an extinct, their I come back to this, ain't this
how the free market is supposed to work. Now that

(10:06):
the NCAA can't restrict player movement, We're seeing what happens
when the players are available on the open market. What
is happening now is what is it that this new
presidential administration is calling it. We're trying to change the
narrative about this economy tanking. Oh, this is just a
period of transition, a temporary pain. I read a report

(10:27):
recently and Sports Illustrated that estimated that high level college
basketball players earned about a million per year in twenty
twenty four, which was up from the previous year. Sports
Illustrated also reported that a top point guard was deciding
between multiple three million dollar offers, because that's now the
price of doing business if you want a top point
guard or top player in general, the ability to increase

(10:50):
their value year over year. Is why Andrew Brandt, who
worked as an agent and in the front office for
the Green Bay Packers and is now executive director for
the Morad Center, for this eddi of Sports Law at Villanova,
It's why he told me that right now college athletes
have the best free agency in sports.

Speaker 7 (11:08):
We have free agency in the NFL.

Speaker 8 (11:09):
After four years in the NBA, after four years in
the Major League Baseball, after six years in college. We
have freedency every year. We have this transfer portal that
allows players to transfer without penalty every year. Why back
to the lawyer's lawsuit when they tried to prevent that,
and now free agency every year. Imagine that you sign

(11:32):
a player. You pay him could be one hundreds of thousand,
could be a million dollars. You have no assurances he'll leave,
not only leave after the season, but a maybe even
during the season, or not get enough playtime. So he
says screw this and keeps the money you paid. All way,
it is free agency without a salary cap. It is
free agency all the time. I said to a big

(11:54):
time college coach like Amm, sorry, you got to deal
with free agency every year. He looks at me, pulls
up his chair di wreck to my face. He says, Andrew,
we deal with free agency every day.

Speaker 2 (12:04):
I hate to tell college coaches this, but things are
about to get even crazier. And next week a judge
is expected to approve a two point eight billion dollar
settlement that will allow schools to directly negotiate with players
rather than use nil collectives. Schools that opt into the settlement,
are expected to receive about twenty two million to share
with the players across every sport and most schools. Football

(12:27):
is expected to absorb the majority of the revenue sharing budget,
but since yesterday's price ain't today's price, the budget for
basketball players will receive a significant increase now. As much
as coaches want to complain about the state of the
college game, they certainly ain't missing any meals nor a check.
A number of college basketball coaches chucked up the deuces

(12:48):
to their programs for more money and more opportunity. Dave
Devrez left West Virginia for Indiana, Rick Patino's son left
New Mexico for Xavier. Patino Part two replaced Sean Miller,
who to go to Texas. So if they're able to
take advantage of the open market, why can't the players
a reminder that all of this temporary pain could have

(13:08):
been avoided at the NCAA just created a revenue sharing
system on their own before the courts forced them to.
Now they're scrambling and the coaches and administrators are big mad,
But I hope they realize that mentality of when we
do it, it's cool, but when the players do it.
It's a problem that shit is as old as some
of these college guys now hooping. I'm Jamelle Hill and

(13:30):
I approved this message. So this week's pod is special
because I have a really good friend coming through. He
is one of the most unique personalities to ever come
through ESPN, and before we became friends, I admired him
because he was one of the few ESPN talents to
actually gain the system, just in the sense that he
stayed true to who he was When I was going

(13:52):
through my bullshit there.

Speaker 1 (13:53):
He definitely held me down.

Speaker 2 (13:55):
So I expect the trip down memory lane, but I
think you'll be inspired by some of the things he's
been up to since leaving ESPN a few years ago.
Coming up next on spolitics, the Homie Kenny, Crazy Ass May.

Speaker 1 (14:15):
Kenny.

Speaker 2 (14:16):
I cannot tell you just how excited I am for
this interview. One is that you know, we worked together
many years as colleagues. We became friends, and so we've talked.
Our conversations off air have often been hilarious and entertaining
and also very thoughtful, and so it means a lot
that you would take this time to join me here

(14:36):
on politics. But I must say that you win the
award for best background shot ever in the history of
this podcast, because right now it looks like, though your clothed,
it looks like you're on set or somewhere where one
might be dropped off for naked and afraid.

Speaker 7 (14:53):
No I got I'm sweats, So we're good. I'll tell
you what, some people I think it's fake. Like I've
been on other interviews zoom calls whatever and like, oh
my god, that's beautiful. It's like that it's a button.
You know, I'm not really on the Pacific Ocean. But
now we're in Connecticut. Our last of the four daughters
is in school in New York City, just started college.

(15:15):
So Grutchen ain't moving to the West Coast tomorrow, right,
so her little baby, you know, we got to make
sure she's okay still.

Speaker 2 (15:21):
But first, before we get too far into this interview,
Before we get too far in this interview, I'm going
to ask you a question that I ask every guest
that appears on politics, and something tells me you probably
have since you're an amazing storyteller, that you probably have
a really great answer, and that is name a moment
or an athlete that made you love sports.

Speaker 7 (15:43):
Oh, that's easy. Go way back when I was eight
years old. The Olympics. Right, that's a sixty eight Olympics.
I'm going back, John Carlos, Tommy Smith, all that going
down there, and just you know, rooting for these great
athletes that I was seeing on TV. Right, Green Bay
Packers when I was seven, the Ice Bowl. I'm really

(16:03):
dating myself here. I just signed up for Medicare. I'm
not lying, And I mean, who knows if Medicare still
exists by tomorrow. But you know it was laborious too. Anyway.
Tommy Harper, Seattle Pilots, nineteen sixty nine, like all that
other stuff mattered, but I'd say like where I was like,
oh man, I love sports. I love this guy. I

(16:23):
want to be like him like that. Tommy Harper, Seattle Pilots.
A lot of people don't know they would become the
Milwaukee Brewers. They only played in Seattle one season, and
he led the major leagues and stolen bases with seventy three.
And I went to a ton of their games. The
McDonald's was there, and then like two blocks aways, this
old terrible stadium it's no longer there. It's now a

(16:44):
Low's home improvement story, I believe. But yeah, we had
the pilots for one year and Tommy was my guy,
and that's probably what like. Yeah, but if football was
at first, because the Packers were the Packers, I wanted
to play football in the worst way. Even at seven
years old, I had this vision.

Speaker 4 (16:59):
You know.

Speaker 2 (17:00):
Now, your path into being a sports broadcaster is probably
one of the more jagged and interesting that I've ever
read about.

Speaker 7 (17:11):
It's pretty stupid.

Speaker 1 (17:12):
It is pretty crazy.

Speaker 2 (17:14):
At least the way I understand in the way that
I read it is that you know, you were local,
working in local TV. It seemed like some part of
that was not working out.

Speaker 1 (17:23):
You wound up. Is it collecting garbage cans?

Speaker 7 (17:26):
No, I had done that in college. The industry has
passed me by, and I was down to assembling garbage
cans now because they were down.

Speaker 1 (17:32):
To assembling correct.

Speaker 7 (17:33):
Yeah, they were down to one man crew by nineteen
eighty nine. You know, I was the guy that hung
on the back they called the swamper. And I have
great respect for the garbage. You know, when I make
a garbage people think I'm like, now, I've my dad
taught me that early. You treat the janitor like you
do the vice president of the company. Right, everybody's equal.
They have different jobs. Some people look at farm work
and think that's nothing. When would you be able to

(17:54):
do what those people do? When you see those those
those little little tidbits on on Twitter whatever. I'm all
over the place here, but for my story, I didn't
even want to do sports when I went to I
always want to do something in writing communication. I didn't
know what it was going to be. All you know,
since a young age, took broadcasting at UNLV, but I
was more directed politically. I was thinking political science, political films, journalism,

(18:18):
you know, the broadcasting core stuff. And I wanted to
be I don't know, Ken Burns, you know, and maybe
not as good as him, but do real serious stuff.
When I got to my little station in Seattle, I
worked my way up. I finally got on the air
and I was starting in news. My first story was
the Midway Landfill methane gas mitigation issue, and I'm in
there officials set, you know, like you know those terrible

(18:40):
stories you did when you first started. Day two, I
got to interview Stevie Wonder, so that was I'm already
I'm going places in this career, but they added a
weekend show and they said, hey, you play football, You're
doing sports, and it was almost against my whales, Like
I guess, yeah, okay, I'll do that two days a week,
but my interest was in the other. But sports started
being of fun. I quit that job, as you said.

(19:03):
I called the garbage guy and said, hey, I just
quit my job. Could I get down there a couple
days a week, pay some bills and he's like, we're
down to one man cruise, but I need some cans made.
But I made the cans so zealously that I ran
out of cans. I worked myself out of a job, right.
So then I look in the paper and there's a
marketing company. They left out the word tella, and I

(19:24):
go there. I just needed work, right, and now I'm
selling pre bid legal insurance. In the middle of that,
ESPN calls the second time. I'd already been interviewed once.
I was all full of myself that I could quit
this job, and Jesse Jones, my good friend, goes Kenny,
how fucking Jeffy just called call him back. They were
trying to find me, and they called the station, so
I interview again again. I don't get hired. And now

(19:45):
we're a year later, this is nineteen ninety. But then
they started stringing me along. They had me do the
good will games. I did feature stories. I did real story,
straight stories, funny stories. Then they used me less and less.
I was just more of a gopher, like, hey, go
interview Griffy. He had two homers. I interviewed Gary Payton
on a twenty ten or whatever. And I finally wrote
that letter to John Walsh. This is now now I'm

(20:07):
selling long distance for MCI. By the way, I've moved
on from prepaid Legalin.

Speaker 1 (20:10):
Chirt w Can you way up working your way up
in corporate America?

Speaker 7 (20:14):
You know what I always tell kids, because everybody has right,
I'm sure you get a million questions like that, how
did you do? What did you do? How do you
do it? And to me, it's always just the perseverance.
I mean, you got to work on your talent, you
gotta work on your skills. But the guy or the
girl who doesn't give up, they're the ones who are
usually going to get and succeed, right, they're going to
figure out that thing. And I just kept bugging them
and pitching them stories and Finally, I sent John Walsh,

(20:37):
who was then one of the big shots at the ESPN.
I literally sent him a letter that said, please check
the appropriate box. I'm trying to sort out my future.
And the first one said, stand by the mailbox, contracts
on the way, second one said keep up the freelance work,
and the third one said, we'll hire you about the
time ESPN five hits there and they checked the middle box.
They mailed it back to me and I got hired
like two months later.

Speaker 2 (20:58):
So let me make sure I'm understanding this correctly. You
sent ESPN a do you like me? Check yes, check
no ORB and it actually worked. Why are you telling
these young people this, kiddy, because you know somebody's gonna
try to shoot, right.

Speaker 7 (21:12):
I've seen other people do it. Somebody showed me, Hey,
I was inspired by what you did. I tried that
with whatever I did. But I think the lesson there
is less the audacity of sending a letter that stupid
and it's You're right, it's like, hey, do you want
to be my girlfriend? Is just a friend friend? You know,
It's like sixth grade letter, right, But I give them
three options. I don't know. I was just honestly part

(21:34):
of the reason I did it wasn't to be so
clever and get their attention. I was kind of pissed
off at that point. I was kind of like, how
fucking long are you going to string me along? I've
done this for four years. Clearly I prove and I
know what I'm doing, Like, give me my chance, or
let's just break up. Let's just be done with each other.

Speaker 2 (21:51):
So how do you think you working all those different jobs,
prepaid legal, telemarketer, working in the garbage industry, how do
you think that informed you or shaped how you approach broadcasting.

Speaker 7 (22:05):
That's a great question. I think or approach life as
even a better quesch Just you know, it was my
blue period. I always had this belief, and I had
people who encouraged me to keep the belief outsid other
people who were total doubters, Like, dude, they serious, you
think ESPN's going to hire you. You're selling fucking long distance,
You're calling up some business, Hey can I lower your bills?

Speaker 4 (22:25):
You know?

Speaker 7 (22:27):
So some of it was humbling, you know, through that time.
But at the same time, anytime you go through something
to get somewhere else, I think, you know, it's a cliche,
but It's true you appreciated all that much more. And
I don't think I would have changed anything. I mean
what I should have done.

Speaker 4 (22:40):
Well.

Speaker 7 (22:40):
First I had to try out with Seattle, but I
failed the physical for my messed up ankle. Not that
I was going to be Joe Montana, but I was
good enough to be in their camp, and that's what
I wanted to do. So for a couple more years,
I kept throwing, kept living with my ankle sucks. And
you know about our foundation for veterans based on the
ruined ankle run freely. So I don't know. I think
the normal path would have been you go get a

(23:03):
job in Tri Cities or Bandorg and no offense to
any of those places, you know, and then you move
up to Spokane, and then you get lucky and go
you know, I just went straight to Seattle. First. I
got a job out of a newspaper after I got
cut by the Seahawks. Said looking, you know for you know, engaging, entertaining, energetic,
all those words, and college degree is like, that's me,

(23:24):
they're talking to me. So I got that job over
the phone on a newspaper ad back when I say,
you got jobs and four hours four hours a night.
I ripped up heart the script pages, I listened to
the fire scanner. I would just like the gopher right,
and I just kept moving up until I finally got
my chance. But the typical way, you know, would have
been go to a small market and move up, up, up.
I went the Magellan route in its entirety.

Speaker 2 (23:47):
Yeah, you definitely, and hearing your story it makes me
feel like I had the most boring origin story, because yes,
I did come the traditional path. I came through newspapers.
But that's a that's a long day, a try out
for another day. Now you get to ESPN in the
mid nineties, is that correct?

Speaker 7 (24:04):
What happened was the they started a show called Sports Night,
and it was Keith Overman and Susie Kolbert Yep, Stuart Scott,
Bill Pedo, Deb Kaufman were the junior players, like they
call them, the smash anchors. They come on at fifty
eight or twenty five and do these little updates, right,
and when you weren't doing that, you do like feature stores.
So Keith went back to Dan, right back to Channel one,

(24:26):
and Stuart moved up to be next to Susie. They
needed one more guy and that was just when I
had sent that letter. Who I don't know what happened.
I don't know if they were like, let's just fucking
get it. Hire this idiot, he'll fail, we'll get him
out here. And in fact, what's really funny. The first day,
do you remember Julie Mariosh she was the producer. I'm
sure you're both.

Speaker 1 (24:44):
I know who that is.

Speaker 7 (24:45):
She was my producer for my little smash segment. I'm
going to be on at five twenty five. I got
a fill five minutes. It's first time I've been on
live TV in like five years. I've done a lot
of reporting and interviews and stuff, but not on TV.
And I couldn't figure out the computer system. It was
an old like use Soviet equipment or something. I don't
know what the hell it was. It was terrible, but
I couldn't figure out how to save what i'd write.

(25:06):
I had a few lead ins and some scores and
this and that. It's like twenty minutes before air and
Julie comes up, puts her hand on my shoulders, like
are you okay? Is everything okay? And inside I'm like, no,
it's not okay, Julie. It's really bad because I I'm
on in like forty minutes. I haven't on in five years,
and I have nothing to read, you know, and she, oh,
you got to press F seven or whatever it was, right.

(25:28):
I literally thought for a moment, and it reminds me
of a football story too, But I literally thought, for
a moment, if I just run from the building right now,
no one will know I failed. But these eight people
or these you know, I was like, I'm going to stay.
Dennis Sidori, god rest, who's my director? He made me
giggle right before I came on. I wasn't great, but
I wasn't terrible. And you know, a bunch of years

(25:49):
went by after that, but I remember high school football.
I was like five eight, one hundred and thirty five pounds,
and the starting quarterback for the varsity came up during
a water break. He's like, you're turning out. It's just
like that, and I was like, oh, yeah, you know,
and that you got to fight through the doubters and
align yourself with those who believe in you. And I

(26:10):
did that more than I did the other. So in
every case I've sort of been questioned or challenged.

Speaker 2 (26:15):
I guess now, as you know, Kenny from working there
multiple decades at ESPN, and I know from working there
as well, is that ESPN is not a place sometimes
that does well with personalities or with people who kind
of bring their own way of doing things, as you
know as being a good friend of the late Stewart Scott,
he went through a lot and just tried to be

(26:35):
himself and bring his authenticity, bring his own style to
being a sports center anchor. It seems like at least
this is the perception, and I'd love for you to
elaborate on this. It seems like you were the one
person who was who was accepted for their uniqueness and
their quirks from the beginning. Is that just a perception

(26:56):
that we have or did you go through things behind
the scenes and trying to be the kinny may.

Speaker 1 (27:01):
That everybody loved and embraced that we just don't know about.

Speaker 7 (27:04):
I think you were watching me when you're in kindergarten,
you know, even pop tarts on Detroit.

Speaker 1 (27:11):
I appreciate you th think I'm that young, but I'm
older than I look.

Speaker 7 (27:16):
I would say yes and no. There were certain believers
like Al Jaffe and Vince Doria. There were others who
were less believing in what I was doing. And I think,
you know this, like I think I'm acting about the
same right now as I did physically with you in
the hallway or on TV. It's not other than wearing
clothes and makeup. This is kind of what you get,

(27:38):
you know. I mean it might be a little more
serious on a serious story or whatever. But at the beginning, yeah,
they thought I was kind of a freak. Some of them.
They were like, why did he do that? You know,
I'm not getting everything, And I would distinctly remember one
of them tried to run me out after about two
months because I kept sucking up Miguel in DuRane. He's

(27:58):
a Spanish psychle list, okay, and we were doing the
offbeat sport. Not that cecling is that offbeat, but you know,
it doesn't get a lot of coverage on sports, so
we were doing more of those kind of sports a
lot on on sports. You know it ever get some
in your head and it's a block and you can't
remember somebody's name or you can't say the name right,
or whatever the case is. And I had a block
on this guy, but I always correct myself. Miguel, I

(28:20):
mean Michael endurance or I call him Michael, and his
name was Miguel. That's what it was. It's like, that's
the English version of Miguel. You know, this goes back
to my Spanish roots from eleventh grade or whatever. As
mooi simpatica a moos istori oka abla moui despasio poke
no ntendo mucho. Okay, that's for a Spanish listening audience.

(28:43):
So Norby literally was, dude, we don't need mistakes, like,
you know, you got to be better. And he's right.
I did need to clean it up, but it wasn't
worth the tribunal. So Vince was just like, just get
it right next time.

Speaker 4 (28:56):
You know.

Speaker 7 (28:56):
You can hear Vince saying that. And I'm not even
saying this pick on our it's just in case you
asked how I was received. And I think he and
some others were in the camp that, oh, this guy
is fucking weirdough, like, what are we doing here? We're
supposed to be doing real sports. They were hung up
on stats, stats and all that. Stuart got smart about it.
He would load his read with a shitload of stats,

(29:19):
you know, last game, nine game average. Then he'd get
in can I get a witness, you know, like he'd
or he'd go, can I get a witness, then do
the stats? But he he made sure that compliance. Here
you go. I said, all these numbers, you can't yell
at me, you know, but I'm going to be me,
and I kept doing the same thing.

Speaker 2 (29:35):
A lot of people refer to the time in which
you were really making your way in your name at
ESPN as being the golden age of ESPN, especially as
it relates to Sports Center.

Speaker 1 (29:45):
How do you view or characterize that time at ESPN.

Speaker 7 (29:49):
It's weird because I wouldn't say it, but it's true
in the sense that I was the Olberam and Patrick era,
just following the initial years, the Berman's and the Bob
Lee's and the Charlie's and Robin Roberts, and I could
go on with, you know, a whole bunch of other names,
really good people, and we were there where the show
mattered more than it matters now. I'm not saying the
shows aren't good now, you know, Van Pelt does a

(30:10):
great show. A bunch of people do. But you don't
need the show and the way you needed it then,
right because there was no internet. When the Internet came out.
We were making fun of it, like, yeah, you guys
have fun over there with this computer, you know, like
we thought it was stupid, right, I thought ESPN was
stupid when I heard about it. I was in college
playing football at UNLV is Like, who cares about twenty
four hours of sports? Like it made no sense to

(30:30):
me then, But yeah, that era was definitely special if
you cared about a certain game and you didn't have
like a ham radio or something to know what the
fuck happened in Detroit, right, like only the people in
Detroit knew the Detroit Nicks game. New York and Detroit
people and maybe if it was on some radio thing.
But yeah, that moment was special because like here it comes.

(30:50):
No one's ever heard this result before, and people did
it in their unique way, and it really had a
special time and place.

Speaker 2 (30:58):
And looking at that at era, you know, inside the building,
how would you sort of describe the climate, Because when
I got to ESPN, I didn't get there till six.
I used to hear all kind of of funny stories about,
you know, how things used to be among the anchors
and even with the producers and everything.

Speaker 1 (31:16):
I mean, would you say it was collegial, like how
what would be your description?

Speaker 7 (31:20):
By the way, six is what they yell at Howard,
just putting that on record.

Speaker 1 (31:24):
Look we are we're gonna get to you and the cookouts.

Speaker 7 (31:29):
Right, that's Stammorett. I was six when the when the fraternity,
or was there the school of the fraternity.

Speaker 1 (31:35):
I believe it was. Well, I'm trying to think is
stand in a in a front because there is a.

Speaker 7 (31:40):
Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's fraternal. Yeah, you yell at
your your case of initi or of what's the word
I'm looking for when it was, when it was built,
when it was unveiled, what's your question?

Speaker 4 (31:51):
Oh?

Speaker 7 (31:51):
The culture in the hall in the hallway, isn't it?
I mean I would say I you know, I can
only speak from my perspective, like mostly warm, mostly encouraging.
I had Charlie Steiner always looking out for me, and
Bob Lee and Dan and Keith kind of were in
their own little universe, but they were always good to me,
you know, if you had a question. I felt like
it was generally a positive place. There was definitely some competition.

(32:15):
I want this assignment. I want that assignment. And I
remember when I ended up getting picked to replace Keith.
Keith left one of his nine times. He left and
they needed somebody to sit next to Dan, so they
took like a like three months. It was really weird period.
You'd do two shows with him and then you go
back to what you're doing and somebody else would come on.
And I didn't politic at all. I was like, try

(32:36):
to do my best. I was surprised to pick me.
But the funny part about that was I had turned
down I'd signed my original deal blindly. I just liked
Seahawks contract. Just whatever says I'm in, let's go. So
I wasn't making a lot of money, but compared to
what I was making selling long distance in Seattle, was
making more than that, not that much, And so it
came time to offer me something to stay longer, and

(32:58):
I turned it down. It was pretty I'd only been
there two years. I was on a three year deal.
It was in the last year and I was like,
I think I'm worth more. That's I said. What I
said was if you paid your neighbor kid a dime
to mow the lawn, then you gave him a quarter,
you're still screwing him right, like a big rays for sure.
So I turned it down and they're kind of surprised,

(33:20):
and I'm still, you know, doing my thing. I was
on Sports Center at this point, some and uh and
and the car Racing show. I did the RPM Show,
which I knew nothing about car racing, but I quickly
learned and enjoyed it. And then Keith Leaves, and then
they offered me the other job with Dan but at
the exact same number that I had turned down to

(33:41):
not be on that show. And I was like, that
doesn't seem you didn't. You were not for me anything
but just to stay here before Now you're gonna like
give me a big raise, but the biggest job in
the building, or one of the biggest anyway. And they said, yeah,
take it or leave it. You have to sign it
to get the job. So I had to write like
that's a big deal.

Speaker 4 (33:58):
I had to move that.

Speaker 7 (33:59):
But then I called Howard Katz, who I just bumped
into actually told we told him the story. I said, Howard,
I just told him the whole story. I just told you.
I said, isn't that kind of unfair? It's kind of
weird that happened. He said, you know what, we screwed
you and he over the phone changed the numbers. So
good on him, like he was honorable thing to do.
And we always said, you want to get up to
the Charlie Steiner area of income. We didn't know precisely,

(34:22):
but just felt that there was a number there if
you could get in that neighborhood. You were doing pretty well.

Speaker 2 (34:26):
So, you know, aside from what you just mentioned in
that negotiation and when you left for good and I
believe twenty twenty one, had you ever come close to
leaving ESPN?

Speaker 7 (34:37):
About eight times?

Speaker 1 (34:40):
It's okay, okay, where's the closest since it was that?

Speaker 7 (34:42):
Maybe it was, Oh, there was one where I just
announced I'm not going to do it, and I'm not
act like I'm in a big thing. But I was
my own agent. I had agents that never worked out
for me to have an agent, and I just liked
advocating for myself. I wasn't afraid of the conversation. It
feels weird to say, boy, I'm really good at writing
and saying Joe, you know, like it feels to brag
yourself up. But I think they knew what they got

(35:02):
in me to keep her leave, and they always wanted
to keep me enough to raise the money, just enough
to make me want to stay enough, you know what
I mean. That was it always came down to that.
Me and Skipper usually worked it out a few times,
but I don't know other people do it right. The
funny thing is I never had another offer. Nobody the
other place has never offered anything. It was always going

(35:23):
to be I guess I'm going out in the world.
See what happens next.

Speaker 1 (35:28):
Your leverage was just I'm just going to leave.

Speaker 4 (35:30):
It was.

Speaker 1 (35:32):
Kenny. You know, that's not the way negotiation usually works.

Speaker 7 (35:35):
It worked, though, It worked until the last time where
they gave me a really big cut and I just said,
I just do the line that time, like, well, if
you're not going to move, Because he was surprised, I
said no, I just said all pass on a text
and wanted to know, well, are you just leaving? I said, well,
you made an offer and I rejected it. Now it's
your move if you you want to raise it up

(35:56):
maybe you know, and they didn't, so we didn't, and
you know, that's life.

Speaker 1 (36:02):
At least.

Speaker 2 (36:03):
This is a story that you've obviously told before. But
they were they wanted to cut your pay by sixty
one percent.

Speaker 4 (36:10):
That was it.

Speaker 7 (36:11):
By the way, I got a promotional I'll get to
that question. You didn't ask you, but I know you're
setting it up. You guys, as a promotional tool, should
do the transcript of your shows, you know, and relate
it to the Atlantic and put it out on signal.
People can just read the entirety of any show you did.
So that's a free one for you.

Speaker 2 (36:30):
You know what, Kitty, given your very profound experience in marketing,
I'm going to actually I'm gonna take you up on that.
But you know, when they when they came to you
and said that they want to cut your pay by
sixty one percent, when you consider how long you've been
at the company, and I know we shouldn't look at
things this way because you know, this is a business
and we all understand that these are conditional relationships.

Speaker 1 (36:52):
Was there any part of.

Speaker 2 (36:53):
You where your feelings were hurt by the fact that
they came to you with this kind of insulting.

Speaker 4 (37:00):
I don't know.

Speaker 7 (37:01):
I mean, it's funny because even if you took the
sixty one percent out, what was left in America or
early anywhere is still very livable and a lot of money.
But I don't know that's like, I don't think that
was the way to look at it, because somebody else
who is a garbage person, they make thirty three dollars

(37:21):
an hour, and if they were told, yeah, keep working here,
you're down to what that math is fourteen dollars twelve cents.
That's still not terrible for a lot of jobs people
make lesson that's twice the minimum wage. But the garbage
guy would say, no, man, I've been I wasn't making
thirty three fifty. Why I'm doing the same work I've
worked hard for you. I just thought it was I

(37:42):
don't know, feeling bad. I just looked. I tried to
be professional about like it's a business. They have devalued me,
they think less of me, and their offer mirrors that,
and now it's up to me to take it and
keep doing this thing I'm doing, or see what else
is out there. And I just took a roll of dice,
so it's good. I'll see what else is out there.
In fact, I always have dice with me. I used

(38:04):
to have them whenever i'm It's fun just to like
throw them. We did well in craps in Vegas last week,
by the way, I mean feel bad. I don't know.
It's funny. Gretchen and I had talked about and she
was my you know, she's a great advocate in ally,
and she was like stand up for herself, don't you know?
She was like, put So, I'm in that room back there,
you can't see it. I'm on the phone, Norby. We're

(38:24):
just about to wrap up. I guess I'm leaving. And
and she walked in the room. She came home from something,
and I looked at her ice swim and she just
knew she you know, she had this look like, oh
my god, we're really doing it, you know. And I
still had like five shows left, and he asked, you
want to just stop today and you're done? I said,
if you want to take me out those shows, but
I'm not. I'm not going to like make John Anderson

(38:45):
work three days in a row when he wasn't, you know,
I mean, like I'd be screwing somebody else to walk away.
So it was kind of fun in a way, knowing
I'm leaving but still had five shows to do. They
were all weird, the last one in particular, but you know,
I remember they asked, do you want to put out
a release? Together, you know, like glorified. What a time

(39:07):
we had. I was like, I'll handle my release you
Hendley Oors And that wasn't like bitter, but I wanted
to I'm writing my own words.

Speaker 3 (39:13):
I'm not.

Speaker 7 (39:13):
I don't need a co writer.

Speaker 1 (39:17):
There.

Speaker 2 (39:17):
I mean, if anyone I would have dreamed of would
have left in that fashion, it would definitely be you. Listen, Kenny,
I got a lot that I want to ask you about.
I want to ask you some more about Run Freely,
the event you have coming up in New York, obviously
about your Whiffleball documentary.

Speaker 1 (39:31):
But we just have to take a very quick break.

Speaker 7 (39:33):
I know, you know what all read the ads. What
are we selling.

Speaker 1 (39:38):
To tell you what? That's what we'll have you do.

Speaker 7 (39:39):
We'll have you read the ads presents.

Speaker 1 (39:45):
See it's you're just too good at this. Of course,
we will be right back with a little bit more,
a lot more with Kenny May. Kenny.

Speaker 2 (40:02):
We alluded to this at the beginning of the podcast,
but I just want to give people some context of
the depth of our relationship is. You know, it started
long before all the Trump shit went down with me,
but during that time in particular, you were definitely one
of the people. And I don't know that I ever
thanked you personally, and I definitely want to take this
time an opportunity to thank you for how supportive you

(40:23):
were and just in general as we were going through
that first Trump presidency that we would just often have,
as you know, and especially black people know, like there's
the meeting, and there's the meeting after the meeting.

Speaker 1 (40:36):
My favorite meeting after the meeting was Kenny May because.

Speaker 2 (40:40):
We would literally be in the hallway in the makeup
room somewhere like can you believe this shit?

Speaker 1 (40:45):
Can you the number of can.

Speaker 2 (40:46):
You believe this shit? Conversations we had we just filled
my spirits so much.

Speaker 7 (40:52):
Well, it's good to know, Like I went to the
Presidence Day protests in Hertford and it was freezing, it
was snow and it was twenty I don't know how
many people, thousands, twelve hundred, whatever it was, and just
to be around other people to know you're not crazy
is that's just fulfilling. It doesn't change the world. We
didn't change anything, but we did in the sense that
we got more community now we know, right, And I

(41:12):
felt the same way with you and Michael, and sometimes
we would just see each other if they're you know,
you run a different show. I was on a different show.
We're busy. You just look at each other and just
that was enough and you knew it meant way more.
Oh yeah, And it wasn't mocking that at all. It
was sincere. It was a sincere fast and I don't know, man,

(41:34):
I I tried. I remember the time I came on
talking about Kaepernick, which was even before, and I remember
how I can't nervous. Was in the right way. It's
just it wasn't like we're talking now, you know what
I mean. That's the best way to put it is
like every sentence I said, like is it okay that
I said, It's okay that kaepern took me, you know,
like it was a weird thing. It was weird because

(41:56):
your show it got so mischaracterized, like everybody to talk
to like you're in the Communist manifesto. Every show. It's like,
once in a while, you guys did a thing if
sports and politics got together. But again, I remember staying
and some people thought it was controversial, which I think
is crazy. He did something. In fact, Nate Boyer recommended

(42:18):
they were a veteran like hey, seating. Sitting looks like
you're just saying fuck you to everybody. If you kneel,
it's kind of more poetic. You're making your stance, but
you're doing it in the most respectful way. He gave
him that advice, and that's all he did. And there
were things happening that were worthy of protesting, and that
was his best vehicle. He didn't interrupt the anthem. There's

(42:39):
other people in the stands, the same people mad at him.
They're drinking beer, they got their hat on, They're not
you know, you know what I mean? Like, there was
so much hypocrisy about that whole thing, and I just
he was right and what he did. So it's almost
like always the protesters are the ones, those crazy radicals.

(43:02):
And then some years later they kind of had a point.
The Vietnam War protesters kind of had a point.

Speaker 2 (43:08):
You know, do you or do you ever think about
what it would be like for you if you were
at ESPN now doing this iteration of the Trump presidency.

Speaker 7 (43:17):
Well, it seems the political rules have vanished. Although I
would say, honestly and again not slimmy, you're asking a
legitimate question, analyzing a place, you know, that's in the culture.
If you have certain power there, you know, then you
get to do what you want to do right. And
if you don't have as much power, then you don't
get to do what you want to do. I was

(43:38):
probably in the mid power range, but not in the
old uber right. I could get away with not doing
my compliance training right or letting us stack up. You know, like,
fuck your compliance training. You're only doing that to protect
you guys. You don't care that I know to treat
women well, I already do treat women well. I've done
it for twenty odd years. I'm not filling your stupid form.

(44:00):
In fact, one time they said, hr got to help
me do it. They just you got to get it done.
I was at my desk gambling on Saratoga the horses
and the and the guy sat with me. We did
the compliance on one computer while we were cheering on
horses on the other. So, uh yeah, they the rules
were such in our time. They were very strict. And

(44:20):
and it's so funny because everybody paints of the ESPN
such a liberal place, and you got all of you
are woke and all that stupid shit, and the truth
is it's kind of a conservative place. And those who
had left wing if you want to call it that opinions.
We were the ones who were underwatch. Not that the
other people said so much, but they said nothing, which
was like saying something right, be not lukewarm, I think

(44:42):
is the quote in the Bible. So yeah, I remember,
I got, I got. I remember hitting you up after
you'd already got in trouble for yours and went the
night that you you said what you said about Trump
being white supremacists. You you semi attext, I feel like
you'd had at least a half a bottle of wine.
Tell me that I don't know, probably true at that point. Yes,

(45:05):
but you said I have died on the cross for
your sins. There's something that was so you can live.
The funny part is I didn't know what you had done,
but I knew what you meant, like, oh shit, she
did something, you know, And then I found out what
it was, and uh yeah, I got called one time,
and I remember you going, oh, well, all you get

(45:26):
his warnings. You just get a lot of warning because
you know my fifth warning. Remember when Trump's physician god name, yeah,
and he's talked about him, you know, superior athlete, and
he should, you know, be one of the best presidents
healthwise for another on hundred years, you know. And so
that day I was in Seattle at Jamal Crawford's old

(45:52):
high school, throwing footballs with the kids. Saw that all happen,
and I tweeted the president's doctor just time me at
four to one in the forty wearing Snoop Dogg slippers.
I thought that was a good joke.

Speaker 1 (46:03):
It was a good joke.

Speaker 7 (46:04):
I got called like ten seconds later, like, God, damn it,
what do you know. You can't criticize the president? I said,
I didn't. I made a joke about this physical which
I think most people know is kind of a joke.
But even if they don't think that, it's still just
a joke about the physician, right, it's not. But yeah,
they were strange times. They had a committee to watch

(46:24):
our Twitter. Basically, they had four or five people that
would alert, hey, is this too far? I don't know,
you know, and they decide whether it was worthy of
some type of Reprimand yeah.

Speaker 1 (46:34):
ESPN had his own version of doge, but related to
social media.

Speaker 7 (46:39):
But now you got you know, McAfee does what he
wants politically. Now that's different. God bless him. He made
a great deal. He really made a deal where we
do whatever we want and you've decided to air it. Right.
He doesn't have people telling him say this or that.
Stephen A's on Hannity's show every other day, and those
are quite political statements. I'm not even I don't even

(46:59):
know what he believes, but it seems like there's a
great freedom if you're in such a position where you
kind of now hold the leverage.

Speaker 1 (47:08):
I'm going to add to that and say there's freedom
when you have leverage.

Speaker 2 (47:11):
And certainly two of the biggest contracts and maybe already
Steven A probably has the biggest contract now at ESPN,
and there's a lot of weight and money that comes
with that and leverage and power the max deal, Yeah
he got maxed out. But the other part of it,
too is the type of politics that they're expressing, because
I do wonder if they were not, like if it

(47:34):
wasn't Hannity, And let's just.

Speaker 1 (47:35):
Say, I'm trying to Rachel.

Speaker 2 (47:38):
I'm trying to think like if you were going on
Rachel Maddow every ndy or every other night, would this
still be as embraced Because stephen A's politics, even though
clearly at times he says things that rile people up,
and he's riled up both sides of the aisle before.
But I do think that it's probably an easier sell

(48:00):
to get away with more right leading politics, because when
you think about the powers that be both at ESPN
and at Disney, they probably skew as we just discussed
a little bit more conservative. So I think it's the
combo of power and the type of politics that you're expressing.

Speaker 7 (48:16):
There might be something to that. I just remember always
doing it in code and thinking I was so clever,
but then realizing not many people got my code. Like
if Trump was at a press conference, I would put
the lyrics to He's mister know it all Stevie Wonder
from inner visions and those who know, and there were
I mean, he's like prophetic, right, those words Jesus Children

(48:37):
of America. Like there's so many things that we're in
in nineteen seventy two seventy three that have such great
application right now, and because of my affinity for him,
like those are the ones I usually quote, but I
don't know. I kept trying to say, it's not even
a left right thing, it's kind of a right and
wrong thing. I've said that many times to people, and

(48:57):
we are where we are, and now it's even crazier,
you know, talking about can you believe earlier? It's like
there's days I love golf. I know you started playing golf.
I love that four five hours of I only look
up my phone wants to see if Gretchen needs me
or whatever, and just let it go because you I
don't know how these poor bastards cover it daily like

(49:18):
somebody who's assigned to a certain beat and every night,
I mean, because I need my breaks. I've stopped watching
cable news like almost I think I've watched an hour
since the election, and there's no offense to certain of
them on cable news. It's more like I trust who
I trust to know what I know, and I can
catch up and not immerse myself and go crazy just

(49:41):
hearing every opinion. And I've done it like medications, just
like a little little methadone, a.

Speaker 1 (49:47):
Little dose here and there, and you're able to and
you're able to keep up.

Speaker 2 (49:52):
So you talked about this in the first half of
the podcast, and you know, as familiar as I am
with this story, bears, are you explaining again because I
want to ask you about Run Freely, the nonprofit that
you founded with Gretchen and I think around twenty eighteen,
which was the root of it, was because of your
own debilitating ankle issues that you've had that you got

(50:16):
while you were playing football.

Speaker 1 (50:18):
The part that I didn't know was that you were
considering amputation.

Speaker 7 (50:24):
What happened there bad pass protection that starts the story,
y'all fuck me over. Last play of the game. I'm
second string, right, this is my junior year. I'm just
starting to play a little bit more. And last play
of the game at Oregon, we're getting killed. Game's over.
I'm just going to throw one more pass. There's like

(50:45):
nine seconds. You know, it's just taking knee. You know,
it's not like we're not dribbling it out like basketball, right,
So ninety five was the call. It was like all
goes and I through shitty pass. It was raining, you know,
everything bad about everything. As soon as I let it
goes like, oh god, that's on not going very far
and a guy stuck his helmet on my right ankle,
like from the blind side. I ended up playing the

(51:07):
next year. I had to fracture this location like really bad,
tore all the ligaments, broke the bone, and they pieced
me back together. Didn't think I was going to come
back to play second string again. My last senior year,
Sam King led the nation in passing, I'll have you know,
and Randall Cunningham was a freshman underneath us. So had
the Seattle failed the physical. And then through my twenties,

(51:29):
I was still pretty good. I was playing you know,
softball and flag football and stuff. Thirties, still forty, starting
to slow down like everybody does. But mincle got really
bad right around fifty, little early fifties. We're getting off
an airplane. Well, I can't tell you how much pain
I was in, Like you had to like force the
joint to work. It was just so locked up my

(51:50):
right ankle, sort of like self fusing. I guess that
was the best way to put it. So I went
to three doctors. I went to the fusion guy. That's
where they just lock it in place and it's supposed
to keep the pain away. The replacement guy, and I said, well,
can I play flag football and softball? And they said no,
we don't need to run. I was like, what, I
can already not run? Why would I have your surgery

(52:11):
to still not you know, so that was out and
James Andrews said, don't do it too. And the last
guy was the amputation guy. And I was serious. I
was in a lot of pain, taking codeine not you know,
pretty depressed about it really, and they were they saved
my life. They said, go find a better therapist. I
found this guy named Nino PRIBBC in Kirkland, Washington. He

(52:31):
brought my leg back to life. I got this brace
done in California. That kind of got me through for
a while, and I, you know, was doing better. Then
I found this amazing brace in gig Harbor, Washington, a
guy named Ryan Blank. It's called an exosim. Essentially, if
you go to the websites run freely dot org, run
freely dot org, it tells the whole story, but you
stick your leg in it and then you stick that

(52:53):
in your shoe. I just played golf yesterday, zero pain.
I was going to do some sprintston the driveway today,
like I can do stuff like that again with this device.
And the guy who made it made it for veterans
in the first place, right, so I remember the very
first day. I'll never forget it. Like, I was crying
trying to talk to Gretchen on the phone, and she
didn't know why I was. I couldn't believe this gift,
you know, And we just said, let's do something good

(53:16):
about it. So we started a foundation. I think we're
up to about sixty. I'd have to count them all up.
But you know, some of them get to go back
to work, some actually go back in the service. We
were more inclined to help veterans who are out, but
there have been some other cases like that. One guy
was just like, dude, I get to walk on the
beach with my daughter now she's two. I didn't get
to do that until today. The guy, the last guy

(53:37):
I put the video clips. I've moved to Blue Sky.
I'm trying to Twitter is just not working right now.
And we showed him on day one. He's running on
day one. It's crazy. It's it's like you know when
you fall asleep on your couch and you see those
INFO commercials that last like an hour and they're just
selling some bullshit that's not true. This is like that,

(53:57):
but it's true.

Speaker 1 (53:58):
And those devices are quite expensive, correct, Yeah, I.

Speaker 7 (54:02):
Mean yes and no, they're eight to ten grand I'm
not saying that's nothing, but compared to another surgery and
all the rehab, it's a pretty good deal. You just
don't fix anything, so you keep your bad leg, but
you get to do shit.

Speaker 4 (54:14):
That's it.

Speaker 2 (54:16):
One thing about you, Kenny, anybody who's followed you through
the course of your career, is that you come up
with the most absurd ideas that would seem absurd unless
people knew it was you. Right, Like if anybody else
would have said, you know what, I'm going to challenge
King Griffy Junior to.

Speaker 1 (54:34):
Some wiffleball. I think that's kind of absurd. But you
took this idea of being able to strike them out
with wiffleball, did you No?

Speaker 7 (54:46):
No, it was a speed pitch. The story is, this
is nineteen eighty nine. He's a rookie in Seatley's nineteen
and I talked and I was just starting my sports thing.
I've been on for a year doing sports in addition
to the news. I got Harold Reynolds to get Griffy
to come to the Seattle Center to shoot a feature
story not quite as good as some of the ones

(55:08):
you might have seen later at ESPN. It was I
was pretty amateur. It was as funny looking back at
the tape. I was so bad. I was such a
dork and Griffy and I end up throwing whiffleballs at
the speed pitch at the Science Center, and I had
this tape. You know, we ran the story that week.
I quit that job a month later. That's before I
started assembling garbage cans and for earlier listeners. And I

(55:34):
had the tape all these years. So I saw Griffy
like two years ago at the Seattle Sports Award Show
and he gave this great speech and I went up, hey,
good job, you know, just to say hi, and he
brought up the day we threw whiffle balls. I forget
what he said, but it was his reference to the
fact we had done that, because I've maintained that I
beat him by one mile per hour. And as a woman,

(55:56):
one of the greatest players, he's our Willie Mays, one
of the greatest ever to play game, is still thinking
about a stupid feature story at Channel eleven nineteen eighty
nine where we through wiffleballs, and it just inspired I'm
going to make a really ridiculous documentary about that day.
It's like retelling a Day in the Life is really
all it is. Ken Burns is in it. We got
Pearl Jam music, we got head in the Heart, got

(56:17):
a rapper named Sam Luchow, the wiffleball President's in it.
A university professor to analyze the tape is in it.
I'm leaving at a science center people. So it's a
half hour long, and it's on fuboat sports. For those
who get that, I'll just send you one on email.
And we're proud of it. Like it's a it's a
quirky half hour. It's it's different, and it tells the

(56:40):
whole story. And so then over the holiday this past Christmas,
I just started daydreaming, what's something else I can do
to compliment what that is and make it bigger? Right
to show it, because we've shown it a couple of
film festivals and charity events, but you know, fo boat sports,
that's and I don't know how how far reaching it's been, right,
So I made up at least I think I did

(57:00):
twenty or thirty minutes of material, go on stage, pull
it off, throw to the movie, kind of a hybrid
comedy meets film festival, right, that's the act. And I
sent a note to Jimmy Kimmel right after the New
Year and said, hey, I looked at the calendar in
Vegas in February, and you got a couple of dates.
There's nobody planning. He got me in touch with those people.

(57:22):
We went out and did it February third, I think
it was, And I'm doing it again in New York
City later in April at the pitt the People's Improv Theater.
First one, like literally the first time in my life
I tried. I went a half hour stand up and
the difference was it didn't feel like what I considered
to be stand up. It was more like just telling stories.
I started at age three. Well, first I started with

(57:44):
leaving ESPN. Gretchen thinks we still make money when we don't,
but yet we have FedEx and ups trucks like we're
a transfer station. She's trying to manifest she has. Gretchen
has like money trees and she waters them, you know,
so like our water bills like a golf course. Okay,
she's trying, and so it's like that, telling stories about
myself where I'm at. Then I tell about my childhood,

(58:07):
stealing a candy bar, falling in love with Missus loomis
breaking my femur at age eleven in football, and it
leads to the showing of the movie. It's like, you
need that information, like three D glasses to watch my movie.

Speaker 1 (58:19):
Were you nervous about doing something?

Speaker 7 (58:21):
I was only nervous because Gretchen was so damn nervous.
And you know, you know, you've been around here once
or twice, I think, and I mean, I love her,
She's like my best support ever, but she wasn't helping.
We're in the back room, you know, behind the stage
and the two of us and these two girls that
run the place, and I'm like, no, you know, like
she's not I love her, But is there a bear?

(58:43):
I heard?

Speaker 2 (58:44):
Look, I'll tell you if a bear's.

Speaker 7 (58:47):
Nice at it. So it's sort of like I did
the Seattle Sports Aword show a few weeks ago, I
believe or not, I got honored with the Keith Jackson Award,
plugging myself here big on it. So he's Washington State guy, right,
and they give the award to somebody who's old basically.
But it was really fun because in a sense I
did another stand up there, right. I went up and

(59:07):
did like eight minutes telling the stories. We already talked
about the garbage can assembly and all that, and that
was good practice for it. But I was nervous for
that night until the first joke worked, and then I wasn't.
I just said, hey, I was backstays with Fred Couples
working on a swing. You should look for noticeable improvement
in twenty twenty five from Fred. He's coming around, he's listening,

(59:30):
you know. I just he was the next guy. He
was getting the same alward GRIFFI gout, but I got
over pretty quick. I think I could be better because
I was too fast, you know, like there's a certain
pacing you need to do. We got to see Nate
Bergotzi in Vegas last week. Now he knows what he's doing.
He's pretty damn funny. If you haven't seen much.

Speaker 2 (59:48):
Of him, yeah, I've seen a little bit of him
and he does seem to be quite funny. So as
you are, you know, you have these projects that you're
involved with.

Speaker 1 (59:58):
How do you you know? How do you want this
third act? I guess we can call it that. How
do you want this third act to go?

Speaker 7 (01:00:07):
I just want to keep doing stuff. I'm like I'd
be bored one we don't have enough money, just do
whatever we want forever. We're not that kind of money.
We're okay enough to make it for a while. But
a I think I'm better at what I do now
at this age than I ever was. Like, I'm smarter,
I know how, I'm more efficient. I think I have

(01:00:27):
a million ideas. We're I have like eleven maybe projects
going right now. God knows if any of them happened,
but at least we got in front of people. And
so I want to keep doing something. But I love
this model that I made up of, make a funny
little documentary, make an act that works before and my
hope is like the movie Waiting for Guffman. I want
Guffman to show up one day and go, that was funny,

(01:00:49):
that was a seventy minute thing that should be on TV.
So that truly is like the thing I'm reaching for
with this project now. And I have another documentary I'm
trying to get somebody to support that could be really stupid,
as well as whiffle Wall, and like, make that be
the model. Go take a month or two to make something,
then build something bigger around it while I continue to
maybe do some other things. I have allegedly a podcast

(01:01:12):
thing happening soon, but I can't really talk about it
until it's happening, but hopefully that happens soon.

Speaker 2 (01:01:17):
Any desire to go back to broadcasting in any traditional sense, I.

Speaker 7 (01:01:23):
Don't think so. I mean, it's nothing against what they're doing.
It's just I think after having left it. It's almost
been four years almost, you know, when I left, the
first thing I did well, First, I just like, what
the fuck did I just do? Then I made a commercial.
You know the group Ollipop, you know, the low sugar pop,
So this is funny. I was on Levatard Show the
day after I twitter announced that I'm leaving, and he said,

(01:01:46):
what are you going to do? You're crazy, you know,
And I said, I don't know. You know, make commercials,
you know, pitch myself, you know, I'll figure out something.
I'm going to be aggressive, and I got a bunch
of ideas. I said, I like to do a commercial
for Ollipop, shout out Ollipop and just being silly. I
wasn't even all serious, but they heard about it. Ended
up talking to the guy right over there by the
grill the next day, pitched him the idea over the phone.

(01:02:07):
Shot it two days later started airing, like four days later.
That never happens, right, Like, that's just such in the remarkable.
But you know, I had all the gambling places called
it was the right time for the world of gambling,
and had a whole bunch of different things that I
might have put my time into. Caesar's just sort of
made the most sense. It was back in Vegas. I

(01:02:29):
went to school there. It was a fun couple years.
It went away though. They did it as long as
they wanted to do it, and then they stopped. But
that's fine. It was fun. Who all lasted.

Speaker 2 (01:02:40):
Yeah, So Kitty, let's talk about you and the cookout,
all right, because as you know, these advice to the cookout,
as in for those who are unaware, the cookout meaning
where the black.

Speaker 1 (01:02:52):
People gather for food festivities and shenanigans.

Speaker 7 (01:02:55):
Yeah, I have several. In fact, I usually quote you.
I said, look, I may them cookout invice. Jamelle even
gave me a plus one when she was really you know.

Speaker 2 (01:03:03):
Big, I gave you a plus one, which is saying
something because number one on the list of things that
are asked when black people are about to attend the
cookout is who are all going to be there because
that matters, and you know, maybe a peak hexith if
he actually has some quote duys around, he would know
rule number one of the group chat. When you get

(01:03:24):
in a group chat, you see numbers you don't recognize,
you like all in here. But he didn't understand that.

Speaker 7 (01:03:28):
What's funny is everybody has done that, right though they
just did it at kind of a higher level. We've
all fucked up and included that person that either are
you know, don't want anything to do with that day.
But I'll tell you what It's funny. We say always
this is always said kind of in a joking way,
this whole cookout notion, especially you know if a white

(01:03:48):
person gets in. But it's also a serious thing, like
I like, like sincerely. I grew up my dad worked
at the airport. We would have the party for the
you know, the daytime party and a nighttime party for
the different shifts. We had every kind of person there
and thought nothing of it. Like just that's how I
grew up. And it's funny when you tell the story

(01:04:10):
that way, is that I have a lot of black friends.
It's not like that. It's more I think at a
very early age, I was taught treat every the same
black people, white people, Asian people, gay people, streat people
whatever they are, because they were all there and they
were always in my life from a very young age.
So and then I played football. All my running backs
and receivers, we call them the running blacks. They called
themselves the running Blacks. They were all from Englewood and

(01:04:33):
Compton and whatnot, San Francisco. So yeah, to me, it
was you treat people regularly and you get treated back
that way. So that's why certain people will get invited
to the cookout. That would be my explanation of it.

Speaker 4 (01:04:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:04:47):
Well it's also really is just our way of saying
that we consider you an ally. And I know personally
that when shit went down that you were standing in
the paint for me internally, externally, all those things, and
so I always appreciated that. But what I've wanted to
always ask you about the theoretical cookout. If you were

(01:05:07):
actually going to a cookout where you know, you know,
as black folks get down, what's the first food you're
going for when you're at the cookout.

Speaker 7 (01:05:17):
I was gonna say, I'd bring dice. I'd bring the dice.

Speaker 2 (01:05:19):
Oh oh hell yeah, you definitely bring okay, right, Because
this is the other thing that white people need to
understand about the cookout. You have to work your way
up to binging a food item. More often than that,
you will not be allowed to bring a food but cups,
paper plates, dice cards. Absolutely, yes, we bring.

Speaker 7 (01:05:37):
Some good wine. Gretcham would pick out good wine. I
bring dice. I'd pray wear like a T shirt with
you know, some kind of emblem on it, you know,
not try too hard.

Speaker 1 (01:05:47):
Don't try too hard.

Speaker 7 (01:05:48):
Yeah, no collar shirt, no sweater around my waist, and
I don't no.

Speaker 1 (01:05:52):
No, please, don't do that.

Speaker 7 (01:05:54):
The joke I always see is about the raisins in
the salad. It's like, yeah, raisins shouldn't be in anything.
They raisins are okay if you're like playing softball and
you need a snack and you have some raisins out
of a small box, and then I question it. Don't
put raisins in fucking cookies. Don't put nuts. I love nuts,

(01:06:14):
I love peanuts, I love walnuts. I don't want them
in a cookie. I want them over here in their
own thing. They should just be all a cart. So
I hate the inclusion of raisins or nuts in anything
they don't belong in. But I think additionally, I always
thought the cookout, there's a connotation that was going to
be a deeper meaning, the entirety of the event was

(01:06:35):
deeper than just a generic barbecue.

Speaker 2 (01:06:38):
That's however, oh that is that is a perfect read
on that because there will be dancing, there will be music,
there will be liquor, there will be shit talking, there
will be dice, there.

Speaker 1 (01:06:47):
Will be cards.

Speaker 7 (01:06:48):
I think I'll win the day with my music selections.
I think that's I think that's the way to get in.

Speaker 1 (01:06:55):
That's the way to get in.

Speaker 4 (01:06:56):
You.

Speaker 2 (01:06:56):
First of all, you break a collection of Stevie Wonder
you in or request a collection.

Speaker 1 (01:07:01):
And I know that's your man.

Speaker 4 (01:07:02):
Well, you know what.

Speaker 7 (01:07:03):
I was at a weed store in Las Vegas and
they had a DJ. This is just the other day,
and I said do you take requests? And he said, yeah,
what what do you got? I said, play fuck Donald
Trump and he just blasted it.

Speaker 1 (01:07:15):
See, and that's why, Kenny, you're invited to the cookout?

Speaker 6 (01:07:18):
All right?

Speaker 2 (01:07:19):
Before I get you out of here, because I'm having
such a good time, I like to end the podcast
by asking my guests what I call a messy question.
This is the question, Kenny, that will get us on
all the blogs, that will get us.

Speaker 1 (01:07:32):
To make all the headlines.

Speaker 2 (01:07:33):
All right, So this is the messy question, and that
would be Kenny. You spent twenty plus years or so
at ESPN. Give me, and you cannot name yourself, give
me your top five sports center anchors.

Speaker 4 (01:07:47):
Of all time?

Speaker 7 (01:07:47):
Oh man, do I even want to do that?

Speaker 1 (01:07:51):
I don't care.

Speaker 7 (01:07:52):
You got to do it anyway, Dan and Keith. Okay,
I'm just going to old school and I'm going to
leave a lot of people out.

Speaker 1 (01:08:00):
It's the nature of a top five. Everybody can't be
in the top five, can't have twenty in the top five.
Five is five, and it's your five.

Speaker 7 (01:08:06):
This isn't necessarily one through five. Just these are on
the just I didn't.

Speaker 1 (01:08:10):
I didn't ask you to write them.

Speaker 7 (01:08:11):
We take over another American uh, you know, a Native
American land and do a monument to people. Will put
these people up there, Okay, Burman, Bob Lee, Dan, Keith
Stewart with Van Pelt coming in for Stuart since he
has passed.

Speaker 1 (01:08:32):
Okay, all right, so.

Speaker 2 (01:08:35):
I hear what you're saying, all right, that that is
a very credible and wonderful top five. I can't wait
for the headline to be Kinney main shades every esp.

Speaker 1 (01:08:45):
And Acre, not these five.

Speaker 7 (01:08:50):
You know what, I thought. It was a fun interview
and we know each other, so it's easy, just like talking.
I was just getting prepared for my political diet tribe
the whole time. But we did it. We did it
in the margins. I think we know where we are.
I'll tell you what Twitter. I tried to back out
of Twitter entirely. You know Sarah Kensey or the author,

(01:09:12):
she's great, Yeah, and she I asked her, I said,
what is your take on bailing it from Twitter or
staying on Twitter? And her she had a great answer
because she's, you know, she's a true historian at this point,
right the thing she has studied. And she was like,
it's terrible, but you need to stay. It's part of
the public record. If we just walk away from it,

(01:09:36):
all everything goes away, right. I was just more, I
appreciate where you're coming from, but I'm like mental health,
Like I like blue Sky, I need to have somebody
teach me how to fuck do you use Instagram? No idea?
It doesn't make any sense to me. Threads are stupid.
I hate Facebook. So I'm just going to meet people
in the corner. You know, we're just going to talk.

Speaker 2 (01:09:57):
Don't worry, We'll we'll find you well, Kenny, thanks again,
I appreciate you joining me and so people, How can
people see you in New York with these jokes plus
sing the wiffleball doc.

Speaker 7 (01:10:09):
Yeah, it's April twenty fourth, the coveted ten thirty at
night slot. But New York City, that's not a crazy time.
That's you know, almost like Vegas. It's called the Pit,
the People's Improv Theater. So go the Pit dash NYC
dot com and you can see. So hopefully it goes well.

(01:10:31):
And tonight, I know you're running this at whenever you
run this, But as we tape tonight on a Wednesday,
Jeremy Shapp mel Pal is interviewing me at a library
in southern Connecticut. It's a fun event. It's you know,
like when they bring in an author or whatever. In
my case, they're going to show my movie, Jeremy. I'm
prepared for Jeremy's questions. I didn't tell them what to ask,

(01:10:53):
just see what happens.

Speaker 2 (01:10:54):
Yeah, well, I have a feeling that's going to be
an amazing and incredible interview again.

Speaker 1 (01:11:00):
Can I thank you enough? Kenny?

Speaker 2 (01:11:01):
I know you're really busy, and hopefully at some point
we will get to work together again.

Speaker 4 (01:11:06):
I hope so too.

Speaker 1 (01:11:08):
One more segment to go, and you guys know what
that means.

Speaker 2 (01:11:10):
I got questions to answer up next, your viewer slash
listener questions, and I have plenty of answers coming up
next on the final segment of Spolatives. All right, finally

(01:11:31):
the final segment here and you know what it is,
Time to answer question from one of you. This question
comes from acch for DC, who asked this question via
Blue Sky. Actually, he asked me a few questions. I
just chose one of them, but here's one of them.
When do student athletes slash families boycott schools that get
rid of DEI or have trans bands? Okay, so I've

(01:11:55):
seen this question post a few times about what student
athletes should do now that you have seen so many
different universities and schools eliminate DEI, and you brought up
also the trans band. Now University of Michigan, I know,
is like the latest school to get rid of all
of their DEI departments, they announced that they were sort
of de emphasizing DI across the board and a few

(01:12:17):
people's surface. Well, if that's the case, why are black
college athletes in particular, But I'm just not going to
put it on them. Why are athletes in particular who
may be believe in DEI why are they continuing to
play at these schools when they have made it clear
that beyond what they can do from them from an
entertainment standpoint, they have no interest in having people like

(01:12:38):
them on campus or trying to recruit people like them
to come to campus. All right, to that, I say this,
I think it's unfair to ask athletes, athletes who have
been working their entire lives for the opportunity to go
to college on a scholarship, which leads them in a
considerably greater position than a lot of people who wind

(01:12:58):
up with a lot of college debt, or a lot
of people don't even have the opportunity to go to
college period. It is unfair to ask them to give
that up when there are people, you know, regular citizens
who don't have athletic powers or who are not wanted
because of their athleticism, when they also can wage a fight,

(01:13:19):
a campaign, a boycott.

Speaker 1 (01:13:21):
They can do the same things and still cost these
schools money.

Speaker 2 (01:13:24):
I will say that I understand why people want the
athletes to lead the charge, because if we're being honest
when it comes to leverage, one of the few spaces
of leverage that black people have in particular is through
sports and entertainment, especially at the college level. Now you
see what's happening on a broader standpoint at these colleges

(01:13:47):
and universities.

Speaker 1 (01:13:48):
They are always hungry for funding.

Speaker 2 (01:13:50):
We know that a lot of these new buildings on
these campuses don't get built unless they have a good
sports team, or unless they're donors that are emotionally and
financially invested into what their sports teams do.

Speaker 1 (01:14:05):
And so it kind of reminds me of something that Steve.

Speaker 2 (01:14:08):
Spurrier said back when he was coach at Florida, and
somebody asked him why he thought it was justified that
a college coach made millions of dollars compared to faculty
members who made a fraction of that, and I think
he said something along the lines, up, will you let
me know the next time a chemistry professor can pack

(01:14:29):
out eighty thousand people in the stadium.

Speaker 1 (01:14:32):
There's a lot of truth to that.

Speaker 2 (01:14:34):
So we know that sports is important to every university,
and we know especially at universities like Michigan, which recently
won a national championship two years ago, national championship in football.

Speaker 1 (01:14:44):
That is, we know how much they value their football program.

Speaker 2 (01:14:48):
And so while it's unfair to ask the athletes, the
truth is it will work because we know that.

Speaker 1 (01:14:55):
They don't want to seed any ground when it comes
to sports.

Speaker 2 (01:14:58):
The prospect of college football player not choosing to go
to a university because of their anti DEI stance, that
would rattle a lot of cages. That would shake things up,
and it might actually inspire a lot of these administrations
at colleges to fight against this strong DEI ban that

(01:15:19):
is coming strictly that is being spearheaded rather by the government.
So it's unfair to ask, but I get the strategy
because you know it will work.

Speaker 1 (01:15:28):
I'll give a small example and why I believe it
would actually work.

Speaker 2 (01:15:31):
I mean, there was a running back at old Miss
whose name is just escaped me, but it was a
running back at ol Miss, and he was the best
running back on the team.

Speaker 1 (01:15:41):
And he said that he wasn't going to play that
season for Old miss.

Speaker 2 (01:15:44):
This was in the off season where he made this
announcement as long as the state had the Confederate fag
So guess what happened the campus They took down, you know,
using the Confederate flag.

Speaker 1 (01:15:55):
I believe they changed the Mississippi's flag.

Speaker 2 (01:15:57):
Just because this one athlete who was a very value
football players said that he was not going to play
if that Confederate flag stood.

Speaker 1 (01:16:04):
So you know that these universities and people respond to that.

Speaker 2 (01:16:09):
I just have a hard problem myself asking athletes to
put up that sacrifice. You know, what I would say
is that if you're a fan of one of these
teams that have decided that they're going to take this
stance as it relates to DEI, you also have the
power to not watch, You have the power to not
buy their merchandise, you have the power to not go
to their stadium. And if you're a student that got
into University of Michigan, I presume that you're a student

(01:16:32):
that can probably go a lot of different places. So collectively,
you can't just have the athletes always make the sacrifice
all the time.

Speaker 1 (01:16:39):
You know, other people have to be involved. It's not
just on them, it's on everybody. All right.

Speaker 2 (01:16:43):
Thank you acch for DC for your question. Now, if
you have a question for me, you can hit me
up on social media or email. I'm at Jamel Hill
across all social media platforms, Twitter, Instagram, Fan based, Blue Sky,
and threads.

Speaker 1 (01:16:56):
Please use the hashtags politics.

Speaker 2 (01:16:58):
You also have the option of emailing me as Politics
twenty twenty four at gmail dot com. You can also
send me a video of your question, but please make
sure the video is thirty seconds or less. Now, don't
forget to follow and subscribe to Politics on iHeart and
follows Politics Pod on Instagram and TikTok.

Speaker 1 (01:17:15):
Politics is spelled s p O L I t I
c S.

Speaker 2 (01:17:19):
A new episode of Politics drops every Thursday on iHeart
podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. This is politics
where sports and politics don't just mix, they matter. Politics
is the production of iHeart Podcasts and The Unbothered Network.
I'm your host, Jamel Hill. Executive producer is Taylor Chakoigne.

(01:17:43):
Lucas Hymen is head of audio and executive producer. Original
music for Spolitics provided by Kyle Vis from wiz FX.

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Ep 23: The Politics of Audacity - Featuring Kenny Mayne

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Ep 23: The Politics of Audacity - Featuring Kenny Mayne