Ep 27: The Politics of Finding Peace - Featuring Alexis Belton

On this week’s filibuster, Jemele addresses the Shedeur Sanders draft controversy, making a compelling case for why Sanders’ fall in the draft was a talent-based decision. Jemele is later joined by professional golfer Alexis Belton, a World Long Drive Tour champion who keeps it real about the challenges of pursuing a professional golf career. Alexis candidly shares some mental health struggles she’s endured trying to finding her place in golf, how she found her voice after dealing with some racial incidents as a college golfer, and how she’s using her experiences to support and empower other aspiring golfers.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, what's up everybody.

Speaker 2 (00:01):
I'm Jamel Hill and welcome to politics and I Heeart
Podcast and Unbothered Production.

Speaker 1 (00:07):
Time to get spolitical.

Speaker 2 (00:17):
The big story out of last week's NFL draft was
the fall of draft prospect Shadur Sanders. Now I put
fall in air quotes, because was it really a fall?

Speaker 3 (00:28):
Now?

Speaker 2 (00:28):
There have been plenty of takes and opinions about why
Shadur Sanders wasn't drafted early, including by my former colleague
Steven A. Smith, who said he was told by someone
he did not say whether or not they were affiliated
with the NFL, that Shador Sanders was the victim of
quote Kaeperneck level collusion. Now, even the President took some

(00:48):
time out from playing golf to chime in.

Speaker 1 (00:51):
He wrote on truth Social.

Speaker 2 (00:52):
His own social media platform, what is wrong with NFL owners?

Speaker 1 (00:56):
Are they stupid?

Speaker 2 (00:57):
Deon Sanders was a great college football player and was
even greater in the NFL.

Speaker 1 (01:02):
He's also a very good coach, street.

Speaker 2 (01:05):
Wise and smart. Wait did he say street wise? That
sounded very what you mean you people?

Speaker 3 (01:12):
Now?

Speaker 2 (01:12):
Donald Trump went on to say, therefore, Shadeur, his quarterback son,
has phenomenal genes and is all set for greatness. He
should be picked immediately by a team that wants to win.
Good luck, Shadeur, and say hello to your wonderful father Buck.
I got a lot of questions about that, but that's
a podcast for another day. But the gist of it
is that there seems to be a prevailing belief that

(01:34):
the NFL engaged in some kind of wide ranging conspiracy
to humiliate Shadur Sanders because they can't handle a young,
confident black man.

Speaker 3 (01:44):
Now.

Speaker 2 (01:45):
I have an extensive history of calling out the NFL
for its racism and for often undermining player empowerment. The
NFL is the last organization that deserves the benefit of
the doubt about practically anything. And yet I have a
hard time believing Shadir Sanders being drafted in the fifth
round had to do with race or some massive conspiracy. Yeah,

(02:09):
I know, I'm kind of surprised. I'm saying this too,
but hear me out. What we might have just witnessed
was a perfect storm for disaster, and not necessarily some
orchestrated plot to humble and humiliate Shador Sanders.

Speaker 1 (02:23):
Let's be honest about something.

Speaker 2 (02:25):
Shadur Sanders was never considered to be a bona fide
can't miss surefire first round pick. Never now reading what
mel Kuiper said, No disrespect is not the same as
listening to people whose jobs will be saved or lost
by the draft picks they select or don't select. Reports
were that Shador was initially graded as a second or

(02:47):
third round pick by the NFL. Now, for those who
don't know, if you are an NFL draft prospect, you
can personally ask the NFL to provide you with an
assessment of where you might be drafted. You get this
information before the pre process begins. And there were questions
about Shadeur's actual ability. While it's true he did not
have a great offensive line at Colorado, by NFL standards,

(03:09):
he was considered to have only a slightly above average
arm and good but not great athleticism. He's been coached
by his father his entire career, and yes, people in
the NFL wondered how he would adapt in a system
that wasn't guided by his father. Fair Now, these are
all legitimate questions that he had an opportunity to address
in the pre draft process, but according to reports, that

(03:32):
isn't exactly what he did. He apparently had some awful interviews,
with some speculating this was part of a concerted effort
to try to control where he was going to be drafted.

Speaker 1 (03:41):
There are also teams he refused to interview with.

Speaker 2 (03:44):
Now there's confidence, arrogance, and then shooting yourself in the
foot if there already is a debate about whether you
can be a starter or a franchise quarterback in this league,
Purposely performing poorly on interviews and refusing to interview with
certain teams only further proofs to NFL teams you ain't
that guy.

Speaker 1 (04:01):
Now.

Speaker 2 (04:02):
I'm not one to automatically believe certain narratives about players
before the NFL draft, because it seems like every draft
some bullshit narrative about a player's surfaces.

Speaker 1 (04:12):
Out of nowhere.

Speaker 2 (04:13):
I'm also old enough to remember when Miami Dolphins general
manager Jeff Ireland asked Dez Bryant, who was coming out
of Oklahoma State at the time, if his mother was
ever a prostitute, Knowing it was entirely possible that an
interview with Shadur might have gone sideways because of something
like that, I did my own reporting. I reached out

(04:34):
to an ex NFL player who is still well connected
in the league, and someone else who is in a
decision making capacity with an NFL team, and in case
it matters.

Speaker 1 (04:44):
Both of them are black.

Speaker 2 (04:46):
Both told me it was true that Shaduur at some
points made a mockery of the process and came off
as someone who thought he was far better than the
film indicated. Now in the NFL, confidence is a must,
especially at quarterback. Not forget that, Jess. Last year, people
were calling Caleb Williams, who last I checked, is black,

(05:06):
arrogant because of some of the things he said at
the NFL combine.

Speaker 3 (05:13):
I didn't feel the need to go out and throw
I played around thirty some.

Speaker 1 (05:17):
Games, I believe. Go ahead and go watch real, real,
live ball of me and see how I am as
a competitor.

Speaker 2 (05:24):
Also, do I need to remind you of who Shador's
father is and what he said at his NFL draft.

Speaker 3 (05:32):
Your feelings about going to Atlanta, no doubt it was
your first preference, definitely Lanta or Tampa Bay, and Atlanta
chose me, and I'm very pleased with At the season,
I can't wait to get to town. We called Campbell
and get with them fans down there and thank them
in there.

Speaker 1 (05:46):
When Detroit took the other standards.

Speaker 3 (05:48):
I saw, did grin come across your face? I was
so happy I was going, but I was kind of scared.
I thought the truck was gonna take me. I would
ask you so much money, and I had to put
me on their way. No baseball.

Speaker 1 (06:00):
I'm glad there.

Speaker 3 (06:01):
Huh.

Speaker 1 (06:02):
That was in nineteen eighty nine.

Speaker 2 (06:04):
So you mean to tell me that the NFL was
more tolerant of confident black men then, more so than
they are now. The issue isn't Schadeur's confidence, but his
lack of self awareness. Here's a breakdown from Charles Robinson,
a senior NFL writer for Yahoo who has been covering
the league for years. And if it helps, Charles and
I went to college together. I'm known forever and I
trust his reporting. Here's what Charles wrote. And while I

(06:27):
don't know the ins and outs of how Sanders's draft
process went with every team, I will say this. When
NFL Network chose to publicize visceral anonymous comments from a
handful of league sources about their discontent with sanders approach
and meetings or what they viewed as quote arrogance, I
wasn't shot. I also had heard some extremely negative opinions

(06:49):
about Sanders inside teams. Some dealt with his football evaluation
on the field. Others were about how he carried himself.
Still others were, and this can't be ignored, rooted in Sanders'
football career, having been guided at seemingly every step by
his father, Dion Sanders. For those looking for the one
thing that culminated in Shadeur's draft fall, there's going to

(07:09):
be disappointment, because I believe it was a different cocktail
for each franchise and maybe for every single evaluator who
was tasked with building a dossier on Shadeur. You can
find some who thought his decision to completely check out
of the combine was a massive mistake, born out of
him not understanding how his evaluations were really shaping up.

(07:31):
Others point to his interviews, his preparedness to face curve
balls when meeting with teams, or never having played for
a head coach at a high level of football, who
wasn't his father.

Speaker 1 (07:40):
Not having an.

Speaker 2 (07:41):
Agent to prepare him at the start of the process,
or then try to stop his fall at the end
of it might have been costly.

Speaker 1 (07:47):
Some simply pointed.

Speaker 2 (07:49):
To football evaluations that they believed or lacking like Charles
I also was done when last week the NFL networks
Tom Pellisero reported that an anonymous NFL assistant coach him
that leading up to the draft, Shadur had quote the
worst formal interview ever. Now, Shador Sanders has the right
to strategize as he sees fit, but his strategy backfire

(08:10):
because the people making decisions in the NFL did not
see Shador Sanders as being so talented that he could
completely disregard the evaluation process. We have endless examples of
the NFL excusing, rationalizing, or flat out ignoring practically anything
if a player is talented enough. In the twenty eleven draft,

(08:33):
a draft analyst for Pro Football Weekly wrote this about
Cam Newton. Very disingenuous, has a fake smile, comes off
as very scripted, and has a selfish meet first makeup.
Always knows where the cameras are and plays to them.
He has an enormous ego with a sense of entitlement
that continually invites trouble and makes him believe he is

(08:54):
above the law. Does not command respect from teammates and
will always struggle to win a locker room. Lacks accountability, focus,
and trustworthiness, is not punctual, seeks shortcuts and sets a
bad example, immature, and has had issues with authority. Not dependable.
I mean, damn that Cam Newton pee in his cornflakes.
So still his girl back in eighth grade. But guess

(09:17):
where Cam Newton went in the twenty eleven NFL draft. First,
Cam was a generational talent, so it didn't matter if
Nolan Nrocki wrote that Cam liked to beat baby seals
in his spare time because the Panthers were never going
to pass on him. Johnny Manziel was as cocky as
they come, but he also was the first freshman to
ever win the Heisman Trophy. Baker Mayfield another cocky dude,

(09:40):
number one overall pick, and in this year's draft, the
Baltimore Ravens selected edge rusher Mike Green in the second round,
who has twice faced sexual assault allegations. As much as
people want to use Eli Manning as an example of
the NFL's double standard, that comparison just doesn't hold up.
Eli Manning, who I put third on my Heisman bad

(10:00):
when I was a Heisman voter, was the consensus number
one overall pick. He made it clear he didn't want
to play in San Diego, who had the number one
pick in two thousand and four, The Giants traded for
Eli and the rest, as they say, is history fair
or not.

Speaker 1 (10:15):
You can do that when you're the number one pick
because you have leverage.

Speaker 2 (10:19):
Now, certainly, there were some quarterbacks taken before Shador Sanders,
such as Dylan Gabriel, who joins him in Cleveland, or
Tyler Show, who the Saints took with the fortieth overall
pick based on where he was drafted. NFL teams, though
did not see shaduor Sanders as a starter. That, of course,
doesn't mean they're right, and that doesn't mean that Shaduur
Sanders won't be a terrific NFL player. Jalen Hurts wasn't

(10:40):
a first round pick, and neither was Russell Wilson. Tom Brady,
who is one of Shaduur's mentors, is the greatest late
rown pick in NFL history, since he went on to
become the.

Speaker 1 (10:50):
Greatest quarter back ever. I'm not naive.

Speaker 2 (10:54):
Race is always a factor in America, and one of
those components of race is that black men have historically
and are presently considered a threat confidence on black men
is weighed and scrutinized much differently. The NFL, of all leads,
certainly doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt considering their
poor racial track record. The NFL, damn sure ain't innocent,

(11:16):
But are they guilty of colluding against a player that
has yet to actually prove he.

Speaker 1 (11:20):
Can play in the NFL? The answer is no.

Speaker 2 (11:23):
Comparing Shadeur Sanders drafts lip to Colin Kaepernick being exil
from the league is just unseerious. Shardeur will get an
opportunity to play in the NFL. Colin Kaepernick likely never will.
Donald Trump tweeted his support for Shadeur Sanders, but he
had this to say about Colin Kaepernick, and you know.

Speaker 4 (11:41):
Your San Francisco quarterback. I'm sure nobody ever heard of that.
I'm just reporting the news. There was an article today.

Speaker 3 (11:54):
I love to report the news.

Speaker 4 (11:55):
And then they said I made a mistake, right, I said, no,
the people reporting the news, madam second, it's wrong, But
there was an artic goal. Today is reported that NFL
elders don't want to pick them up because they don't
want to get a nasty tweet from Donald Trump.

Speaker 2 (12:14):
Do you believe that Shador Sanders is not a freedom
fighter nor a political prisoner. He's a talented player with
a bright future, and now that he's with the Cleveland Browns,
he has an opportunity to prove that not only is
he a starter in the NFL, but he can make
a bunch of NFL teams look like fools. I'm Jamelle Hill,

(12:35):
and I.

Speaker 1 (12:35):
Approve this message.

Speaker 2 (12:38):
As you all have heard me mentioned many many times before,
I've become a golf fanatic, and my guest on this
episode is someone I met while hosting a golf event
last year in Washington, DC. She's incredibly talented and has
been on the professional golf circuit for a number of years,
a former long drive champion, but she has such a

(12:59):
compet telling story about how she got into golf and
how challenging it's been for her as a black woman
trying to compete in a majority white, wealthy sport. It's
created some mental health challenges for her, and she's spoken
so candidly about that part of it. Trust me, this
is a story that is absolutely worth you hearing. Coming
up next on Spolitics, Alexis Belton. So Alexis, I'm going

(13:29):
to start this podcast by asking you a question that
I asked every guest who appears on politics, and that
is name an athlete or a moment that made you
love sports.

Speaker 3 (13:42):
That's a great question. I would have to go with,
not necessarily an athlete, but a moment that made me
love sports was the Battle of the Bands that was
hosted between Southern and Grandlin every year. My dad was
a chairman of Southern, but then also we lived in
Grand Lane resting area. That whole atmosphere gave me the

(14:06):
love for sport and ever since then that's been in
every sport. I want to see about old bands.

Speaker 1 (14:12):
Do you want to see it? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (14:15):
No, I mean and for people who have not seen
that's it's truly remarkable.

Speaker 3 (14:20):
Yea.

Speaker 2 (14:20):
And because I was, I felt like I was late.
I didn't go to my first black college football game
until I was in my early twenties. I mean, I
went to a PWI so I went to Michigan State,
so obviously didn't get to experience that there. And you know,
I went to the North Carolina Central North Carolina A
and tea game and I was like, oh my.

Speaker 1 (14:40):
God, this is different. This is so different. The food.
I mean, oh we tailgated.

Speaker 2 (14:45):
It's the only football game I've been to where everybody
was tailgating pretty much most of the first half.

Speaker 1 (14:51):
But when it was half for the band to perform,
everybody in.

Speaker 2 (14:55):
Yeah, you stay for a little while, then you go back,
you go back out finished jail gate, and I was like,
I ain't never tailgate. It just hard about life, right, So,
but it was a wonderful experience. So it's great that
you have like such a presient memory of that.

Speaker 1 (15:10):
On your Facebook page.

Speaker 2 (15:12):
You described sort of your childhood loosely a saying we had,
you know, basically your family's passionate about two things, a
love for Jesus and sports.

Speaker 1 (15:25):
Right, So tell me what it.

Speaker 2 (15:26):
Was like for you growing up in Ruston or Ruston area.

Speaker 1 (15:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (15:31):
I think it's just true Southern culture, Like we're Bible
Belt Louisiana and so everything that came with that, being
so close to the historic Grandmain state. But then also
right there with Louisiana Tech. So I grew up watching
you know, kem Olki and Theresa Weatherspoon and coach Barmore.

(15:51):
My dream was to just like be able to play
basketball under coach Barmore, and right when I was had
that ability he retired, and at the same time, I'm
you know Eddie Robinson, you know, just the history of
that and watching as I grew older and seeing everyone
getting this Eddie Robinson Award and knowing who he was
as icon and you can go down the list of

(16:13):
such a small town having such a rich history and
sport that also had an a rich history and like
values and so yeah, growing up in Ruslon was interesting
because even though there was still division, my parents were
the first, one of the first African Americans have their
own law firm, and watching what my mom went through that,

(16:35):
I think there's they both struggled, but watching a black
woman go through that was a lot different. And if
there's one thing that unified everybody even before even before religion,
was sports, So I think that was really interesting. And
then growing up going to school in West Monroe instead

(16:58):
of Ruston was also a culture or shock, even though
it's thirty minutes away where when I first moved there
to play basketball, the mascot was a rebel flag and
going to a school where some of the students didn't
know what that was, some of even like my black teammates,
but then also holding this opportunity that sports allowed to get.

(17:19):
The floor changes in the basketball gym because I wouldn't
play on it, or different things like that. So it
was a very interesting childhood. But at the end of
the day, not only do I see the power of sport,
but also saw how it can bring people together and
how it can change something that already existed.

Speaker 2 (17:39):
You are a I think your dad is a district attorney.
Is yeah, yep, your dad's a district attorney. And obviously
the lawyering is a lineage in your family. And seeing
as you just alluded to seeing your mother go through
the struggle she did, seeing your father, and what having
these positions meant, and what it meant to be black
and having those positions, how did seeing what your parents

(18:03):
went through and living in the area you were in,
how did that shape or inform your attitudes about race?

Speaker 3 (18:11):
That's a great question. They were so active, like you know,
going back to my dad be a full Southern night,
a full jag who also at times was you know,
a tiger. Just all the things were very interesting, But
I think they had me rooted so much into my
heritage and not even just like my overall what it

(18:33):
is to be African American. But just like first let's
look at our own history. Like my grandfather was a pioneer.
They lived in the first brick house built, and the small,
small small town called Bazil that doesn't even have a stoplight,
only has you know a stop sign that you will
probably drive straight through. And to watch my grandfather be

(18:53):
an entrepreneur and do all these different things but also
wrestle with his own struggles and come to terms with
those things and make a better future for my dad,
and my dad doing the same thing for me. But
it all comes through knowing where you come from. And
so I think they did such a great job of
not only say like, hey, we want to make this
better for you, but you have to understand where you're

(19:14):
coming from.

Speaker 2 (19:15):
So having that sense of your identity as you talked about,
then you go to West Monroe to play basketball, even
though we know that wasn't the sport you eventually sort
of unfortunately, yeah, onto necessarily or let's go on in
a different way. But having that experience growing up there
and seeing what your parents did, and you say you

(19:35):
described them as active, how did you make the decision,
be it conscious or unconscious, to begin to use your
voice within the realm of sports to push for change.

Speaker 3 (19:48):
Yeah, I think it was unconscious. I think like for
a lot of it, you see something happening for one
person or one group and then you think, well, wait
a minute, y'all not eat at the gas stations, even
though we're champions, but we hit the gas station. You know.
It's just like learning little things like that. And I
think obviously always going back to the way that my

(20:09):
parents raised me was just like, oh, if you see
something wrong, fix it and if you can't fix it,
find people that can. And I think that's what it
came down to, is how do we make impact with sport.
I think there's a facade of like we'll brand it,
but we won't fix it. We'll brand it being fixed,

(20:31):
but we won't fix the problem. And to actually fix
it means that you have to go through the ebbs
and flows of it. And so going to school that
again had like rebel flags, as you know, it's like saying, hey,
I'm not wearing that we're having a rebel flag parade.
I'm not attending that, even though you might think that
I need to be there. I'm going to also educate

(20:53):
you in this because there's an ignorance that exists within that.
And so I think that sparked my love for what
not only just sports, but what we can do with
those around us in order to make change, like genuine change.
And then whenever I started playing golf and I had
kind of one of the peaks in my career, I
thought that that would give me a platform for change,

(21:15):
and I realized it doesn't. You have to be the
one to initiate, create, and hopefully lead that challenge for people.

Speaker 2 (21:26):
So when you drew that boundary about not wanting to
participate in things because of the shadow of the rebel flag,
how was that received?

Speaker 3 (21:40):
Not well? Obviously? I think I think it was not
received well because it was a part of people's identity.
Even though it wasn't the value might not have been
a part of their identity. So it's kind of like
when you see a sports team change a mascot, right,
it's like, you can this is an abomination. You can't
do this, even though there's no like, that's not a frog,

(22:05):
has nothing to do with a person. And I think
that is what I saw was like, Okay, one, it's
your identity. Is this this rebel flag? And even though
you might not be attached to it from a value standpoint.
Once you learn and you agree to be attached, that's
when the issue kind of arises. And I think it
was just like having a lot of hard conversations, but

(22:26):
then also, yeah, just refusing to show up at things
that continued to kind of follow that it's never met
with anything. Well, it's it's always like, what's wrong with you?
Why do you have to be difficult? And I think
also that in that tension, battling not trying to be
a not trying to be labeled as a strong, you know,

(22:49):
black woman in the context of what society has named
that I didn't want to be. She's a difficult black woman, this, this,
and this, so juggling that even within golf has been difficult.
So I'm like, oh, I'm just being myself, but I'm
also trying to implement something that might help increase a
lot of the initiatives that y'all say want to be increased.

Speaker 1 (23:10):
Yeah, and we're we're gonna definitely get to that part
of it. But I guess to.

Speaker 2 (23:13):
To to unpack it off, how do how do you
go from being a basketball player to then becoming a
professional golfer.

Speaker 3 (23:23):
Yeah, that's a great question, because I never saw it
in my future. Whenever I was like, what is my
future hold, I was junior high school and I wanted
to think it around junior high school and I wanted
to I was taking my health class, which is in Louisiana,
you have a health class, you have your.

Speaker 1 (23:43):
Hunting class, you have a hunting class, you.

Speaker 3 (23:46):
Have a hunting class. So the same year you're in health,
you're also getting your hunting license, whether you use it
or not, which is very interesting. That's another topic for
another day. But my health teacher, who also was the
football code, who also was the history teacher, right, and
the golf coach was like, hey, we need an extra
girl to play on the golf team to make it

(24:07):
a team. And I was like, now, that's for old
white men. And he was like, well, you get out
of school all day, you get free food, and you
get to pick your outfit. And I'd never been to
a country club before, so I was like, you should
have led with that. Why would you lead with golf?
Lead with the ladder? And that's how I fell in

(24:27):
love with the game of golf, and then from there,
my high school basketball coach told me it was a
bad idea to play golf that was going to ruin
a basketball career. In hindsight, like as an adult, I
realized like he was coming from the best place. But
for me that was a challenge. Is it's always a
challenge when you say you can't. And so I was like, well,
I'll just get a scholarship in golf and I'll quit basketball,

(24:50):
which my parents were met with tears of like, we
put you in aau and we put so much money
into this, and golf was expensive. Do you know how
much a golf club coss versus of basketball? And they
were supportive with that because that was my dad's first
love whenever he became a young adult, and so it

(25:11):
brought him back to it and brought kind of a
connection for us.

Speaker 2 (25:14):
So obviously, I'm sure you looked around the landscape because
it was why your initial reaction was, Hey.

Speaker 1 (25:21):
There's this is a this is a sport for white me,
and like, you know why me?

Speaker 2 (25:26):
Yeah, So looking at what the landscape was and the
fact that you don't have a lot of people of color,
not a lot of black people, and certainly not a
lot of black women in this sport.

Speaker 1 (25:36):
What gave you the confidence that you belonged in it.

Speaker 3 (25:40):
I think golf in general, if you find yourself having
the opportunity to play, and if you have some sort
of competitiveness in you, like if you go home and play,
you know, with your family and you're the one that's
the loudest, you're gonna love golf. And so the initial
love of golf and drive of golf was definitely the

(26:01):
competitive aspect, like it's all on me. You hit it
one time in the center of the club face and
you're like, I'm Tiger Woods. And so that's what gave
me the original love for the game without even having
to see representation. And I think moving forward in that
is like it's it's a twofold of trying to find

(26:25):
history about black golfers, which is really hard. It was
just like, oh, we just have Tiger is that it
I don't I've never heard of anybody else. And then
there's this other thing that exists that's really hard for
specifically black women, is like, oh, I need to carry
the shoulders of being the first. And so I think

(26:47):
getting into the game and trying to figure out what
representation looked like was a mix of both of like, Okay,
there's tiger and I feel like I should follow that,
and there's this other of like, but then I also
have the shoulders of everyone who's behind me. But I'm
only sixteen. There's nobody behind me, you know which is
I always tell the little girls. Now, I'm like, just
have fun. You don't have the nothing's on, you don't

(27:08):
have weight on you. Right now, it's chill.

Speaker 1 (27:11):
So yeah, So you you wound up though, leaving West
Monroe and you went to was it Texas Wesleyan?

Speaker 3 (27:18):
Yep, I finish. I finished college. So I actually went
to a small school in Mobile. It was my first stop,
and there was in the first semester I was recruited
by a younger coach and there was an older coach there,
and the older coach had built that program, and so
my goal was like to go there hopefully transfer I

(27:39):
you know, we didn't have no portal and I all
back to But yeah, so while I was there, the
older gentleman had a really big struggle with me being
on the team, and so he actually, my teammates would say,
he was used slurs of the N word. And then
it wasn't until he got really frustrated with me and
kind of threw my club down, called me the N word.

(28:00):
I called my mom, which is now I think about it,
probably should have called my dad first, because she was like, oh,
oh real quick. My dad would have been a little
bit more like, Okay, how are we gonna what are
we gonna do?

Speaker 1 (28:09):
Mom was ready to run.

Speaker 3 (28:11):
Mom was like, I'm on my way, I got the keys,
let's go, and she was. She was there really shortly afterwards.
But I wrote a letter to the ad and I
was like, Hey, this is the situation. How do we
move forward from here? And they're like, oh, you just
have to understand he's from a different generation.

Speaker 1 (28:27):
Also, and so they wanted you to tolerate it.

Speaker 3 (28:29):
Yeah. Yeah, my mom's name is Alana, so is it
mam Alana. She was like, yeah, we're not. You're going
to take your finals at home online and we're going
to find you somewhere else to go. And so I
had kind of a lull in between that season and
then finished at Texas Westland.

Speaker 1 (28:47):
So how did you process all that?

Speaker 2 (28:49):
I mean, here you are, I mean you're a young person,
and I know even though you grew up in the
the Deep South and growing up in the Bible Belt,
and I'm sure that wasn't your first encounter with people
like that, but for it to be just so blatant
and so on your face and more even worse in
the space of a sport you were, you know that

(29:11):
you love, Like, how did you emotionally process that?

Speaker 3 (29:14):
I think I've I don't think I emotionally processed that
up until maybe like five years ago. For me, I
was just like, this is the weight that comes with
being a black female in the golf world. Everyone has
some sort of story, and especially when you're pursuing collegiate
or professional, especially when pursued professional, is like someone has
a story similar to that. So the process of that

(29:39):
was like, Okay, well what do I do next? Did
I do everything that I was supposed to do? And
it's more of an internal look too, because you're like
I was a young woman who was trying to figure
out who I am in life, you know, thinking that
I knew everything and there was apart met to it
is like what's wrong with me? And the way that
I approached the game of golf was like I need

(30:00):
to be tolerable for people. How do I come and
and be in golf spaces. But make sure that you
know almost to the point where my personality wasn't there,
that I just showed up and I lived like, how
do I present as a country club person so I
can be accepted, so I can get what I need?
And it wasn't until Long Drive. It wasn't until maybe

(30:22):
a few years ago where I was like, oh, I
can be myself. That's okay.

Speaker 2 (30:25):
So you initially started college on a basketball scholarship, So
how did you make the golf scholarship?

Speaker 1 (30:33):
Like that part of it happened.

Speaker 3 (30:34):
Actually it turned down my basketball scholarship. You turned it down.
I turned it down, Yeah, fully turned it down, turned
down full ride. I was like, I work until.

Speaker 1 (30:45):
I got to where were you supposed to go?

Speaker 3 (30:48):
I had an opportunity to play at Baylor because Kim
Olkie was there. But the crazy part about that is
that so I had like Baylor, Louisiana Tack a few
other schools that were options, but those two like a favorite,
and Kim Kim was asked the coach at Louisiana Tech.
But back then, like they didn't have the resources to

(31:09):
like give the little extra and so coach Barmore had
retired and played and coached as an assistant coach for
kim Olki, and I was like an opportunity to play
for coach Barmore, this is amazing, and then turned that
down full circle. Long story short is that now gets
a golf with coach Barmore, which was like really cool
going back to Louisiana. But yeah, so I turned down

(31:32):
the scholarship in order to try and create a path
within golf.

Speaker 1 (31:35):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (31:37):
When you think about that decision now in hindsight, is
there any part of you that is curious or wonders
how it might have turned out if you pursued basketball
without it.

Speaker 3 (31:47):
Doubt I think that at the end of the day,
going back to like small town, I didn't know a
lot of things that existed. So I'd gotten a letter
in from like Brown University, and all I knew was
that it was just cool up there. And that's not
meant for me, you know. Like I had had a
lot of letters from a lot of schools, I just
didn't know what they were, fully, Like I didn't know

(32:08):
what IVY League was or anything like that. And with that,
I didn't know that you could do multiple things, Like
I didn't know, like I thought especially small town sports
rules like you're either a football player, you're either you know,
a cheerleader, You're either this, you're either that. And even
though I played an array of sports whatever that was offered,
from dance to anything, it was just like I have

(32:31):
to pick one. Now, as I look back, I probably
would have done at all.

Speaker 2 (32:36):
So what at one point did you feel like you
could create some kind of professional future for yourself and golf?

Speaker 3 (32:43):
Yeah, I think, you know, thinking about hindsight of basketball,
the goal was like WNBA, watching Lisa Leslie Santurs of
other spoon like that was that was the goal. And
so I just knew I wanted to be a professional
athlete and somehow, some way I wanted to play at
the highest level that I could. Once I graduated college,
I tried to be a coach. So I was an

(33:03):
assistant coach for a team. I quickly realized that it
is not my calling. That's okay. And golf is an
interesting sport too, because there's so much privilege into it.
So like when you're coaching someone with a lot of privilege,
you're like, what's going on here? So after that, I

(33:25):
was like, I think that I have the skills I
know that I have the skill to be one of
the best players in the world, and that's when I
started to pursue the game of golf.

Speaker 2 (33:36):
Now, what is the scholarship to raign like? And you know,
in terms of pursuing like when you're a golfer. I mean,
I think people have some idea what it's like when
you are a football player or a basketball player. What
is it like for a golfer in terms of trying
to get a college scholarship to play?

Speaker 3 (33:54):
Yeah, I think it depends on what school you're going
to at the end of the day for any anything.
But you know, often here like oh, I need to
get my child in golf. I hear there's tons of scholarships.

Speaker 1 (34:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (34:03):
Yeah, for two thousand dollars it is. You can get
partial scholarship and you can get that met with maybe
academic scholarship to cover all of your schooling. But there's
definitely opportunities out there within the game of golf to
receive some sort of financial aid as you're an athlete

(34:23):
and playing, and that looks different for everyone. That could
be partial, that could be a third, that could be full,
but almost with any sport that's not one of your majors,
you want to make sure that you have other opportunities,
and so you have so many great organizations like First
Tea that apply scholarships, and there's Midnight Golf in Detroit

(34:44):
actually yeap that has for years and years and years
before even like the wave of diversity hit the golf
industry like has been serving the community. And so those
are where majority of opportunities to have a full ride
come from.

Speaker 2 (34:59):
Now, what you kind of made that decision to, you know,
to be a professional golfer? How did you sort of
plot out what that looked like for you?

Speaker 3 (35:10):
It's a great question. I probably could plot it out now,
but I did not know how to thought about it then.
The crazy thing about then is that, like I didn't
even know that there was a tournament called the Bill
Vicki Tournament that was hosted in Atlanta for all black golfers,
junior golfers to come in play. So my resources and
like trying to understand the land of not even just

(35:31):
like professional golf, but golf in general, were very very small.
So it just started with literally getting on Google what
does it look like to be a professional golfer? Which
I had chat GPT back then, because I feel like
I could have, you know, had an actual thing that
could have put in canva and had visuals too, but
it was essentially Okay, Q School. I have to go

(35:51):
to Q School, qualify for every all three stages. If
you make it to the second stage, you get status
with on the Epstent Tour, which is the theater to
the LPGA. Q School in total can cost anywhere from
seven thousand to ten thousand dollars, So what does that
look like? A lot of that time was like, Okay,
I'm gonna work. I'm going to try and get some

(36:12):
sort of sponsorship, which is a whole nother learning thing curve,
and then try and show up and do my best.
And so that was kind of I learned how to
do it along the way.

Speaker 2 (36:25):
Yeah, talk about that part of it, the getting the sponsorships,
because I think the average person doesn't understand what that
dynamic is like. So how you know if you're a golfer,
and let's say, especially if you don't have like when
Tiger Woods came out of Stanford, he had a lot
of momentum behind him, right everything. You know, for as

(36:48):
much as people knew about college golf, you knew his name,
and so if you are not somebody who is super
well known or people have been whispering about and those
kinds of things like what does that hunt for or
a sponsor, what does that look like?

Speaker 3 (37:03):
Yeah, I'll kind of give you two versions of that.
I think the first one is what I learned was
people would ask maybe ten people for five thousand dollars
and that was either as a donation or maybe you know,
as an investment, and they would get a percentage back,
so on and so forth. There's also you know, you
could get sponsored by a company, whether that be a

(37:24):
bank or a big, bigger entity, and then sponsorship also
looked like just family in community putting money in a
pot to try and make sure that you can make it,
and so you have that that exists. I think one
thing that has not talked about often is what a
sponsorship look for look like for if you're a young

(37:47):
black person within the golf game. And for me, that
was a lot harder. So I saw a counterpart of mine,
a white male from the same company, ten times more
than I did, even though I had at that time
in place, I had like more notoriety, I had like
more wins, and things of that sort. And then you
break that down from just being a black female, so

(38:10):
as being a black female, you're also kind of backs
against the wall because what is beauty? You know, Now
you're looked at not just for like your talent. They're like, well,
how can we market you if you're going to be here?
Now you're looked at as like sponsorships sometimes look like, oh,
we want you to come and do this thing, and
there's going to be people there that you can meet
that might help you out. So this is a great

(38:31):
networking thing, but in reality you leave depleted and not
connected to anything and you just did a whole job
for free for an entire day. And so I think
learning those things along the way of like what does
sponsorship look like for me specifically, and trying to get
creative of building sponsorships. So for me that once I

(38:53):
kind of fell flat on my face and got back
up and learned. Essentially for me, it's like, oh, I
can provide something for companies that might look like a
corporate engagement and they can purchase that for me, and
I can come out four times a year play with
them and also help them utilize golf for programming so

(39:14):
how can I help them consult by utilizing the game
of golf and so on and so forth.

Speaker 2 (39:19):
And so when you were, you know, starting out and
you're trying to manage the business side of this, how
did that impact or what was the impact on your game? Like,
you know, how challenging is that to be both business
person you know, your own you know, you're basically your
own company, but also trying to be the best golfer
that you can be.

Speaker 3 (39:39):
Yeah, A great example that I always go back to,
and there's a phenomenal story on PGA Tours about Tim O'Neill.
Tim is an excellent golfer and he has just been
winning tournaments and grinding for his entire life and then
finally gets of age to be on the Champions Tour

(40:00):
wins do you one last year? I think? I really
think when last year, like when's you know, finally gets
a big check and everything that kind of goes into that.
And so I think that watching him shows me a
lot of is very similar to my life of Like, sorry,
I totally forgot the question that you had and where

(40:21):
I was going with that.

Speaker 2 (40:22):
Oh, yeah, just asking you about the challenge of being
you know, kind of having to be wearing all those heats.

Speaker 3 (40:29):
Yeah, business, and yeah it.

Speaker 1 (40:30):
Kind of be a great golfer.

Speaker 3 (40:33):
It delays a lot of things. So if I were
to look back now, I would say, like, oh, and
I think about Tim, like if he would have had
all the resources, if he would have had the support,
because then you also need emotional support. And I'll kind
of go through quickly of like things that you need
to be truly successful, and you'll hear a Scottie Shuffler,

(40:53):
Jordan Speed talk about this, or even Tiger like you
got to have a trainer, but then you also have
a mental coach, and some people also have like a
breathwork coach, but then you need your other just swing coach,
which is two hundred dollars an hour minimum. You got
to have a place to live. You're also paying for
entry fees, and entry fees for the women are a
lot higher for the men. Where the men might be

(41:14):
paying a twenty five dollars entry fee, thirty dollars entry fee,
we're paying five hundred dollars. You're also paying.

Speaker 1 (41:20):
Why is there such a disparity?

Speaker 3 (41:22):
That is something I'm not sure I think. Yeah, obviously
LPGA have the finances that PGA does, So I don't
know if that plays a big thing is.

Speaker 1 (41:32):
To do they're trying to it has to be revenue, yeah, basic, gotcha.

Speaker 3 (41:37):
And so yeah, there's just so many elements and then
your flights and then are you going to drive? That
play a big part to truly be successful on tour
for a year and have not have to have that
thing of like where's money going to come from? Who
do I owe in the back of your head you
need one hundred thousand dollars.

Speaker 2 (41:54):
Yeah, and give people out there who may not be
familiar with Tim's story. He didn't play I believe his
first he's like in his forties and he or he
was in his forties. I think when he played finally
played his first PGA Tour event when he I think
he qualified for the US Open and that was the
one and I think it was last year referred to

(42:16):
his victory he won a tournament.

Speaker 1 (42:18):
I think it was the Dominion Energy Charity.

Speaker 2 (42:20):
Classic is what he won, Champions Champions Tour, and you
know that allowed him to get his card for the
twenty twenty five season, which is a big deal. So
I think we as Tiger was emerging, I think that's
when people and had learned a lot about you know,
golf and the barriers of entry. How much you know,

(42:45):
looking at those barriers of entry for black golfers in particularly,
how much of this is about simply money?

Speaker 1 (42:51):
And because you mentioned the support, like, is.

Speaker 2 (42:55):
That probably the biggest barrier of entry you know, beyond
just sort of social and racial dynamics.

Speaker 3 (43:01):
Yeah, thing money is a big one, but then also
knowledge where do you play? I think also our leadership
of who do we have in leadership in certain sectors
and organizations to help move the needle forward? And are
we allowing you know, brown and black people to have
that representation, to have a seat at the table to
kind of discuss what does that look like moving people forward.
The big thing is I see so many different organizations

(43:22):
popping up for us, which is amazing. But at the
same time, as someone that's been through it, if I had,
if I would advise, I would say, hey, you know,
this is awesome. This might be awesome for the men,
This isn't great for the women. Majority of your women
are already on an epsent tour, They're already on a led.
What they need is more maybe developmental they need Hey,

(43:45):
instead of money, Could you give time as a mental
coach instead of money? Could you connect them to people
so they could get someone on the board for an
LPGA tournament, Because that's another thing. It's all at the
end of the day, it's all about who you know.
You will see certain people in tournaments that don't have
the residentay, but to have the connections, and that's what

(44:06):
golf is is a game of connections. I think sometimes
we are like separating our players to compete against the
big players, which might be AJGA or events like that.
But because we don't know about that, then the education
that we have and like how do we get our
players on tour and how do we get success for

(44:28):
them looks a lot different. And I think the other
thing is just supporting them, like supporting them from the
standpoint of like, hey, this sixteen year old phenom or
this you know, thirty seven year old who's still trying
to make it, that has all the talent. We just
want to let you know that we support you and
that we're here. These are the whatever we can do.

(44:49):
We don't want anything from you, And so I think
overall it's a mindset thing. But I think that there's
that there's things that we can do from a systematic
standpoint point to help leverage brown and black people into
the game of golf to have success.

Speaker 1 (45:05):
Yeah, there's a lot more.

Speaker 2 (45:06):
I definitely want to ask you about that, and also
about some of the things that you have candidly shared about,
you know, some of the mental health challenges that you've
experienced and you know as it related to the game
of golf and all the things that you've had to carry.
So I when I ask you about that, and I
have a messy question for you about par threes, we

(45:27):
will were partner will get into it, but real quick,
we're going to take a very short break and we'll
be back with more with Alexis. So, Alexis, before we
took a break, you were talking about the you know,

(45:49):
the support and what that really looks like and what
it means to support golfers of color, black women, women
of color in this in this sport. Maybe people don't
I think most people probably don't realize this. But what
does it take like if you are, you know, full
time going these tournaments, Like what does it cost you

(46:11):
to go to a and participate in a tournament?

Speaker 1 (46:13):
Like what's the breakdown of like what that looks like
for you financially.

Speaker 3 (46:16):
Yeah, so you're gonna start with your entry fee, and
so you have an entry fee that's probably it might
be like four fifty now, but it was five hundred
when I was playing. And then on top of the
entry fee, you need a place to stay. Then you
also are hotels or hotel or host family which is family.
Ye from a minority standpoint and a foreign standpoint, because

(46:39):
the golf is full, it is just like the World's tour.
So from that standpoint, we're in kind of rural areas
and different places all over the country. That can also
kind of pose an issue as well, and so oftentimes
you'll see a lot of minorities and international players opting
to get a hotel all because of that. Now you're

(47:04):
thinking about a caddy, and to be quite honest, you
need a caddy to be successful. But a lot of
girls are going to choose to maybe carry their bag
or push their own bag just to save costs.

Speaker 1 (47:15):
And what is a caddy run? Like how much was that?

Speaker 3 (47:20):
Oh man, So at the least maybe twenty five hundred,
and then a part of your whatever check you make,
if you make a check, if it's a friend, you
might can get a better deal, but if you want
a decent caddy, that's about around for epsent tour level.

(47:41):
And then you're looking at your fee for your coach,
like you're sending stuff into your coach, getting kind of
tweaks here and there. If you have a mental coach,
you're paying for that as well. During that event. If
you're driving to the event, so I've driven from New
York to Louisiana way too many times, you're also thinking
about gas, transportation, rental car. Are is everyone going to

(48:04):
travel together or not? One tournament can be anywhere from
five thousand dollars to ten thousand dollars, depending if you're
going to be frugal and just trying to give everything
you have, or if you're going to say I need
all these things to be successful, which you do, and
you have the resources to pay for that.

Speaker 2 (48:22):
In addition to you know, you going that avenue of
like competing in tournaments. You then made a transition into
doing long drive, right, And I know a lot of
people are super fascinated. I mean it's one of the
things that he is fascinated about golf, is like the
long drive is the equivalent to the home run, is
the equivalent to the touch you know, is the equivalent

(48:44):
to a touchdown? Like there are these things and sports
that are just captivating, right, You just started competing on
the long drive circuit in these various championships.

Speaker 1 (48:52):
So how did you get involved in doing that?

Speaker 3 (48:56):
It all goes back to trying to figure out another
way to make a buck to be able to use school.
So I was trying to prepare for Q school and
I still needed to make some money to be able
to afford housing and a few other items. And so
someone's like, you hit really far. You should do long drive.
People would say that, but I would watch these and
it's still to this day. I will watch some of

(49:18):
my competitors hit the ball and I'm like, it's incredible.
I could never you know. And so I would watch
and I was like, look, if I come in eighth place.
I sent an email to them for the World Championships,
out of all tournaments, we're going to go straight to
the biggest one. I was like, hey, you know, you're
an hour half away from I am. I was wondering
if they still have a spot open. Golf Channel owned

(49:39):
it at the time. They're like, yeah, we do love
to have you here. I go. My goal was like
to come in eighth place, and if I can fish
in eighth, I'll be able to afford Q school.

Speaker 1 (49:50):
And it was what was was what was the eighth place?

Speaker 3 (49:53):
Money?

Speaker 1 (49:53):
Looking like?

Speaker 3 (49:54):
Is that is that? Yeah? I think it was like
somewhere right around twenty five hundred or three thousand then
and and yeah. So I competed. I just kept getting
further and further, and I had my regular driver. So
I've only competed in long drive with a standard driver,
and my standard driver is actually forty four. And in
comparison for people that aren't aware, long drive drivers typically

(50:15):
are anywhere from forty eight that stay in regulation of USGA,
and they also hit typically with like a lower lofted club,
So where a driver might be standard at a nine
or ten, it's lofted down anywhere from a seven, and
you have some guys that are hitting a two, which
is like a putter. And so I just came in
with my school bag ready to go, and when it
finished ty third and I was like, oh, this is awesome.

(50:38):
That was fun. That was cool. It's where I realized
that I love entertainment, Like I love. I mean, that
was my hardest thing with golf is girls would make
a fifty footer, you know, and just like.

Speaker 1 (50:50):
Just be very slowly yeah.

Speaker 3 (50:53):
And I'm making a fifty footer. I'm like, oh my gosh,
but my mom's like yeah. And so yeah, I found
that long drive allowed me to a certain extent to
be myself even though it's still had some things that
it was working out, and then continue to do that
while playing. So some of my weeks on tour it

(51:14):
looked like on a Monday doing a program to make
a buck, going to Tuesday for a long drive event,
Wednesday flying to whatever epsent event that we had, or
whatever tour I was playing on to do a practice
round if I could make it, if not, I would
do it Thursday, and then going straight into the tournament.
And so I look back and like, obviously, I always

(51:37):
just thought of my career being such a failure, and
I look back and I'm like, whoa, there's so much
success within that. And I was doing so much that
I'd never realized. But obviously, as an athlete, you have
like one goal do it. If you don't, all else
is off. And so it really taught me to celebrate
the little wins.

Speaker 1 (51:54):
What's the longest drive you've ever hit?

Speaker 3 (51:56):
It was like three eighty four eight and Phoenix. Yeah,
I do want to hit in Dember again because I
think I can break the four hundred threshold. You know,
a little advantage up there.

Speaker 1 (52:07):
So what's you know?

Speaker 2 (52:09):
As you even though sometimes it's not necessarily reflected in
the game, but you know this from you know your
experience and because you're in the golf atmosphere.

Speaker 1 (52:19):
A lot is that recreationally black people.

Speaker 2 (52:22):
Out here playing golf right right, I'm one of these people,
Like I'm completely obsessed with it.

Speaker 1 (52:27):
You and I met because we did a golf event together.

Speaker 2 (52:30):
And so for those those of us amateur crappy golfers,
what is the secret? What's the secret sauce to a
you know, sort of perfecting your drive?

Speaker 3 (52:43):
Yeah, this is not to be harsh at all. The
secret to hitting a longer drive and what allows me
to hit to compete with you know, these phenomenal athletes
with a regular club is finding the center of the
club base.

Speaker 1 (52:58):
I can cut you out right now. You know that.

Speaker 3 (53:05):
We're hitting all over that club and we're not at
the center. No, I would definitely say don't swing as hard,
don't swing harder, swing faster. Most people go through the
club and they're trying to swing super hard at the ball,
versus if you're swinging faster, it's more of your hands
going to second base and speeding up in this area

(53:25):
from ball to kind of hip. It's so much like life.
I think one thing that I wish I had was
the better mindset when I was playing and now I'm like,
oh whatever, Like, first of all, i can't be embarrassed
because I'm going to take ownership. But the biggest thing
is after hitting a shot, I always say, I don't care.
I can make berdie from there, I don't care. Like
if Pars Max or Bogie's Max is like okay, and

(53:48):
is it still in play? Cool? I still have a shot.
And so golf really, I mean, as you're telling talking
about that, golf midx life so much. And I think
people think that from a business standpoint, but also just
from a storytelling standpoint, Like we look at success and
say like, oh, they're successful because they have, you know,
these assets, But in reality it's like you have to

(54:10):
form your pitcher and you have to have a certain
view and there are you know, specific things fundamentals that
you need. But outside of that, I can take the
club up here and then as long as I find
the loot, I'm going to make contact. It's going to
be great. And so it's whatever painting that you're that
you're doing that will lead to you having a fun
and great golf game. I don't know if you've done

(54:31):
fash pitch softball in any recent years, but I'm pretty
sure in your head you're like, oh, I still can
slide into this base. I'm an athlete. Why can I
not do this right?

Speaker 1 (54:43):
Precisely?

Speaker 2 (54:44):
Now, you've sort of alluded to it, and I know,
just based off this wonderful column that you wrote, I
believe it was for an organization that deals with depression
and anxiety. About your decision to step away from golf,
let's chat about that. How did you arrive at this
decision that you were going to step away because of

(55:07):
some of the mental health challenges you were having.

Speaker 3 (55:11):
Yeah, I don't think I never arrived at it. It
just you know, they say either you quit or the
sport quit to you. I'd say my mental health quit me,
and that made me force me out of golf and
just struggling with like, who am I in this realm
of the golf world? Is there a place for me?

(55:32):
Really struggling with success? Like and when I tell you,
I felt like I had zero success in life. I
just did not feel like I had support or that
I was going to I knew that doing all these
things to try and make money to play, that I
would not be successful from a rhythm of life standpoint,

(55:54):
because there was no rest. There was no you know,
any opportunity that came. And we were talking about financially
early earlier, like if you're on the brink of making
a tournament in or not. Sometimes you're flying out to
an event, sitting on the alternate list, spending you know,
two thousand dollars hoping for a chance to play it.
If you don't instead of like doing something else, then

(56:15):
you're just out. You're just out of luck. And so
I really really struggled with that. And then you add,
in this case, you add personal things to hop onto that,
and I felt like from a personal life, my life
kind of just blew up. And so to juggle both
of those things at the same time, the healthiest thing

(56:39):
was to just stop.

Speaker 2 (56:40):
Now for you, was this just an accumulation as opposed
to maybe one thing happening where you were like, oh
that's it. So was this more or less a snowball
kind of effect?

Speaker 3 (56:51):
It definitely was a snowball. And I also think now
also stepped away from long drive as well. The I
would describe long drive and certain in certain words is

(57:11):
like I don't know, I do know, I have a thought.
I would describe long drive as like kind of your
WWE meets ultra conservative golf. And so there's a space
where like it reminded me a lot of home in
a sense in going back to high school, being like, oh,

(57:33):
I love the sport, but why are we having rebel
flags around us? And so and not to that extent,
but it was just like I don't think that I
could be myself or that there's a place for me here,
and this is what I'm really good at, and you're
telling me I don't have to practice putting. And then
on the flip side, there's like golf where I'm trying
to figure out I have this big personality, my whole

(57:54):
mission is like golfing for good, But how much good
can you do if you don't have support or resources?
And so like if I knew I wasn't going to
make the cut, or if I'm playing like my final round,
I'd always find some little girl that's traveling with us
and to say like, hey, I'd do this thing with
my caddy and act like I'm firing him and then
hire her on to walk the last spearwaid with me.

(58:14):
And so I was like, oh, I literally enjoyed utilizing
golf for good and really enjoyed entertaining people, but I
didn't know how to do that and be myself. And
so now this year I did some commentating for long
Drive and some other things, but now going back to it,
this year, I did my first event in long Drive

(58:37):
and Forever, and it was like, I think that was
more of myself than I have been. But I think
there's so much more to bring along that. But I
don't think that would have ever happened if I didn't
step away from the sport, find community and find like
there doesn't need. I think actually use you as an
example often of like create the space, create your space.

(58:58):
If there's not a voice in this space, create the
space for you and others.

Speaker 2 (59:03):
You know, as I mentioned in the piece that you
wrote for the it's the Anxiety and Depression Association of America.

Speaker 1 (59:10):
And you know, one of the things.

Speaker 2 (59:12):
That you discussed in this piece was kind of how
challenging it could be that to discuss mental health struggles,
especially within our community, because we haven't always been a
community that's been open to that. And it feels like
now there has been a little bit of a corner
that's been turned where I see more of us discussing

(59:35):
our mental health challenges. And it's certainly more more professional athletes,
to be honest, like they really have been some real
leaders in that space. But you touched on something that
I think a lot of black women, especially feel You
talked about imposter syndrome. For you, as you know, as

(59:56):
you reflect or continue to reflect about that, what was
it that was making you feel triggering you to feel
like you were an imposter despite the fact that you
had seemingly accomplished, you know, so much to most of
us who are looking at you grinding and trying to
make your career and trying to make this happen. It

(01:00:18):
might look like successful a lot of people on the outside.
But what was making you feel like I'm an imposter
in this space?

Speaker 3 (01:00:25):
Analogy that I'll give is when I started playing golf,
I knew that I had it far. But what people
didn't realize was that they tried to keep me in
the same statistics of what it takes to make a
great golfer, which is you probably know is like when
you first start playing, everyone's like, you need to hit
the fairway, you need to hit the green and regulation,
you know, like fairways are really important. Your drive off

(01:00:48):
the teams that sets the tone for everything. So with that,
it wasn't until college and a little bit of post
college where someone was finally like, you hit it far,
just hit your driver. Why are we hitting irons off
the tee? And so I think for me, my imposture
syndrome came from like I'm trying to fulfill these stics

(01:01:08):
that everyone says will equal success, but in reality, success
for me would look like hitting a driver and having
one hundred yards in Who cares if it's in the
fair way or not, if there's an opportunity to burdy
it and you're way back there with a five iron
hitting you know however far that it's just different, and

(01:01:29):
that goes back to like successive life, it's just different,
Like if you're telling me I still have a chance
even if my driver goes left into the water, and
I can hit it on because I have the distance
and then put one put great. And I think that's
what my imposture posture syndrome sat in, not only just
like in the golf space, but even in life. Coming
from a small town successes. You're a doctor, you're a lawyer,

(01:01:52):
you're a banker, you're a teacher, you're a mother. And
as I'm also getting older and pursuing this dream, I'm
not married, I'm not a mother. I don't have I
don't feel like I don't have the things that the
statistics of life that people would say make success or
make you somebody in this world. And so I decided

(01:02:13):
to rip up the rip up the scorecard.

Speaker 2 (01:02:17):
Well, as you have been more public about your mental
health journey, how what has the reception been like among
your peers.

Speaker 3 (01:02:26):
Yeah, I think it's it's been good. I think that
there's been Like I mean, in all honesty, I'm like
in the thick of you know, struggling with depression right now,
and I think it's one of those things where I've
learned how to have help, and so I think when

(01:02:47):
I when talking about it, I've seen you know, you'll
have people on the internet that will comment, You'll have
all those things, and that's great, but as you know,
when you're trying to deal with something internally, someone can
be like you can be Beyonce and be like, I'm
still I'm still not talented or beautiful. You know, it's
like you know, Beyonce, and so at the end of

(01:03:09):
the day, it's like, oh, accepting the help from friends
and family, understanding to put up boundaries of like there,
I have a big, big thing when people speak negative
around me, even if they're talking about themselves, Like words
are so powerful. I'm not going to let people speak
words about themselves or others or anything that is not true.

(01:03:31):
Like even when we think about kids, we're like, oh,
how them bad kids doing? That doesn't exist. It's like
how the kids doing. Are they like struggling with some
things or whatever whatever, But I'm not going to speak
that over someone's life. And then for me, I'm learning
how to be more vulnerable. That's still a huge struggle
for me. I Mean, my Instagram is something where it's
like I don't know how to say, like this is

(01:03:53):
what I'm struggling on but maybe get to a point
one day where over time kind of like this article
where I'm able to speak about it.

Speaker 2 (01:04:00):
Yeah, because I was going to ask you, how did
writing that that article and being candid about the conditions
you were facing.

Speaker 1 (01:04:07):
How did that make you feel?

Speaker 3 (01:04:10):
I mean, it's even a little unsettling of bringing it up.
I'm like, I kind of forgot about it. It was
two things. It was really great to go through that
with my therapist and even learn how to put language
around things that I feel, and also be respectable to
the people that did their best, you know, didn't know

(01:04:30):
what they were speaking or didn't know what they were
doing that that caused it, and having greater understanding around that.
And also, like I said, it really gives me a
lot of drive to be more vulnerable in different spaces
and like share outside of a one on one conversation

(01:04:51):
but say like, hey, I'm not okay, and that that
is okay. But we also have tools and structures to
get to the place that we need to go. Like
I mean, a great example is like me thinking that oh,
everything's frollicking throughout the hallways, you know, because everything's great,
and forgetting oh, the medication is helping and then going

(01:05:15):
off medication because I think I'm doing great. It's little
things like that of like, Okay, I need people to
see the signs around me, and coaches like I think
that's one thing that's really big now, like coaches have
more language around that. Instead of just saying like, oh,
you're injured, it's okay, get out there, we need you,
I'm saying like, oh, this could affect your life forever.

Speaker 2 (01:05:35):
Yeah, a lot of the things that you've shared publicly
about your mental health challenges, my sense is that not
only there are there a lot of people in general
who struggle with those same things, but I think there's
a lot of athletes and probably a lot of athletes
in your sport who who struggle with those saying dynamics

(01:05:55):
that you talked about. So, what would you say to them?
To other people who are struggling with depression and anxiety
and you know, imposter syndrome and all the things that
you have given language and voice to, what would you
say to them that you think could maybe inform them
about how they're feeling and maybe how to address some

(01:06:17):
of it.

Speaker 3 (01:06:18):
Yeah, I think first and foremost is that it's normal
like I think really tearing down that you are weird
or you're not normal or this is and that it's
a part of life. And then you add the element
as a woman and you put hormones into that. There
are also different things that come in play in that.
And the second thing is just like really making sure

(01:06:39):
that you are building a community around you that you
can invite in, whether that's one person or two people
that see you regularly that can I mean I have
friends now that I have an introvert who has tons
of extra equalities that also has social anxiety, right, and

(01:07:02):
they will see me in a crowd and they're like, hey, good,
you need to step out for a second and just
like have a moment and they're like yeah, thanks. And
so really making sure that even if you don't have
the words for it, describing it to somebody and making
sure that that you have somebody safe around you at
all times. And if you can't be the advocate for yourself,

(01:07:22):
whether that is to a coach or to an authority figure,
therapy is the best way to go, especially to have
someone to be in your corner to kind of champion
you through.

Speaker 1 (01:07:32):
So how would you describe your relationship with Golf.

Speaker 3 (01:07:34):
Now it's growing. I feel like I feel like me
and Golf we were so in love at one time.
I mean like as a kid, you know, like when
you're in middle school and you got your fellow's boot
and you just like holding hands in the classroom, but
you're not really going on dates because you ain't got
no car, but you're like obsessed with each other. That
was like me and Golf from the get go. And

(01:07:57):
then you know, you realize what a relationship is. You know,
you're like, oh, this dude, beginning my last nerve, why'd
you say okay? Why did you say like, why'd you
say bye? Why'd you say bye? I love you? You know.
And then so me and Golf had that relationship and
we broke up and it was a little toxic there
for a second. And now it's like, you know, like

(01:08:21):
I just saw my high school sweetheart and in the
grocery store and I was like, oh, you turned out
very nice. You know, it was good. And then he's like, oh,
I see you, and you ain't got no ring on
your finger, you know. And then now we're just kind
of in that phase of don't have to do online dating,

(01:08:44):
so I don't have to go to like a top
golf with some friends to feel good. Now we're like
on the course again and feeling good about shots and
finding our people. We got our community. We're like, okay,
we're doing this thing. This might be real, so go
right now we're we're like talking about engagement. But we'll
see if marriage plays out in that will be a

(01:09:06):
one term I'm.

Speaker 1 (01:09:06):
Saying is golf spinning the block.

Speaker 3 (01:09:08):
Golf is the kids golf.

Speaker 2 (01:09:14):
That's where you are, Okay, well, alexis before I let
you go, always end every podcast what I call a
messy question.

Speaker 1 (01:09:23):
This is the question that's gonna get us on the
shave room.

Speaker 3 (01:09:27):
This is my goal, that's my belong dream, Like I'll
exactly to get on the share room. All right.

Speaker 2 (01:09:32):
This is the question that's going to get us at
some level of viral fame. I've seen this debated often
in the golf community, so I need you to sell
it once for all, once and for all. If you
make a hole in one on a par three course,
does it count out?

Speaker 3 (01:09:51):
Yes, yes, yes. And if you make a hole in
one on indoor simulator, is a half.

Speaker 1 (01:09:58):
It's a half, not a hole, but it's half.

Speaker 3 (01:10:01):
So right now I have three and a half holly.

Speaker 2 (01:10:05):
Ones, you know, because I feel like the Saditi golfers
because I've seen this debated across the interne Yeah about
does it count if you do this? And the Siditi
golfers say it doesn't right that they like, no, that
doesn't count.

Speaker 1 (01:10:18):
It like it only counts.

Speaker 2 (01:10:19):
If you're playing, you know, eighteen at Pebble Beach, Like
that's the only.

Speaker 3 (01:10:23):
Time, right with the with the tour cameras on and
a pro am because you got lucky because it like
skipped across the water when you chunked it and then
got in the hole.

Speaker 1 (01:10:34):
Yeah, I'm like, a holy one is a holy one.
A hold on one is.

Speaker 3 (01:10:37):
A holy one. Not a lot of people have it, exactly.
I'm super rare. I definitely think that it count.

Speaker 1 (01:10:44):
Yes, you settled it now.

Speaker 2 (01:10:46):
This was sure clipping off to put on the social media.

Speaker 3 (01:10:50):
How many hold ones do you have?

Speaker 1 (01:10:51):
None?

Speaker 3 (01:10:52):
But that's one coming up, one coming up, coming up?

Speaker 1 (01:10:56):
What about you? How many holy ones?

Speaker 3 (01:10:57):
Three and a half one during COVID two during COVID
one on a simulator and my first one ever was
in Australia. I might have to send you the video
that I did afterwards because I thanked everybody, even though
I didn't even see it go in. I was like
this for my mama, for everybody else. I couldn't do it.

(01:11:18):
You know. I had the whole speech ready and it
comes out every time.

Speaker 2 (01:11:21):
So yeah, okay, this really is the last question. But
you just by saying that, maybe super curious. What's the
best golf shot you think you've ever hit?

Speaker 3 (01:11:30):
First time? What's yours mine?

Speaker 2 (01:11:35):
I'm trying to remember where I was playing, but I
chipped it in from like thirty thirty five yards out
and you couldn't have told.

Speaker 1 (01:11:42):
Me nothing that day, Like, I mean, period period.

Speaker 2 (01:11:45):
I was like, yo, listen, I'm Nellie Carter out here.
I don't know right, you could have told me nothing
after that.

Speaker 3 (01:11:54):
Drive up to the gas station like somebody pumped it,
you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (01:11:57):
I'm like, yeah, I mean I just chipped out time. Guys,
you can't even look me like but I.

Speaker 3 (01:12:01):
Beat you though, and did you chip out? Yeah? Exactly
A recent one that I've had, because there's there's a
few that replay in my mind over and over again.
I can think of one from when I first started playing,
but recently, I was at an event and I had
a really great drive and I was like less than
one hundred yards in and I hit the worst best
shot I've ever seen, and it like almost does the

(01:12:24):
S word. You can like type that word out because
I can't say it, but it almost does the S word.
Lands in the bunker, and it's like I love bunkers
rather bunker than a grass any day. Hit it out
the bunker and pen is like on a slope, and
so it goes over the bunker and I have maybe
like five feet to work with pen right here, straight

(01:12:46):
downhill slope and I'm like, I don't want to get
a bogie. That's my number one thing. And going back
to mindset, I'm like, I can ship it in from
here right So as I'm walking past the guys see that,
I'm a little frustrated. And I love as guys because
you know, it's it's great. That's one thing that which
we had more of is banter with on the golf
course in the women's world. But I walking past them,

(01:13:10):
I'm like, I'm about to make this. I just said it,
like I called inn Im about to make this, and
they're like, there's no way now you're on a downhill
slope with no grass to work with, like, this is
an awful lie, and I do one hand practice, put
my other hand on there, hit it, knock, it goes
in and everyone just like freaks out. That was awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:13:31):
And after that you were like, don't nobody look at
me and the eye. I just hit the shot about.

Speaker 3 (01:13:34):
Light right right? I have nothing else to give you
guys like you want to tip do that? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:13:43):
Well, Alexis, thank you so much for spending this time
and for being a guest on politics. And I think
a lot of people you know who hear about your
testimony and just how open a candidate you have been.

Speaker 1 (01:13:56):
You're I hope you know you're helping people.

Speaker 2 (01:13:59):
And it may not always feel that way, especially you
know as right now as you admit it, like, hey,
I'm struggling right now, So it may not feel that
right now in this struggle, but trust me, somebody's going
to hear this conversation and it's going to give them
some aha moments, some clarity, something that they can ground
themselves with. So I hope that you walk away trusting
and believing that your testimony is powerful and you are

(01:14:23):
enough and so I hope you really allow yourself to
receive that, because some of us, I mean, we have
a problem receiving. You know, I said one of my
things I was going to be working on the last
few years is how to receive compliments and really like
believe them. And I know that makes me silly to somebody.

Speaker 1 (01:14:41):
Who's listening at home, but it is truly. That's how.

Speaker 2 (01:14:46):
That's the only way I knew how to fight the
imposter syndrome. It's like, I got to receive and accept
these flowers and water these flowers when people give it
to me instead of dismissing them, because then I won't
always go into spaces and feel like do we belong here?

Speaker 1 (01:15:01):
I need to learn how to receive the love when
it's there.

Speaker 2 (01:15:03):
So I hope you receive that and understand that your
voice is providing something for people.

Speaker 1 (01:15:09):
So good luck. I hope you appreciate that you and
Golf continue to court.

Speaker 3 (01:15:14):
You know, you.

Speaker 2 (01:15:17):
Know, saying it might be the way to at least
go to the Bachelor rep party or whatever.

Speaker 3 (01:15:21):
Yeah, because that's gonna be fine, but we got.

Speaker 2 (01:15:24):
To make it there first. I know y'all still working,
y'all building, but yeah, no doubt that this is this
is going to be a marriage that that will work out.
So good luck for sure, and I can't wait to
see you again on the course.

Speaker 3 (01:15:39):
Same can you just quick shout out go ahead. So
I've been a part of my initiative just utilizing golf
for good. I have my own foundation that helps support
others as well as just doing helping people out with
programming things. And one thing that we're doing that's the
uh the anniversary year of Alphad top Holmes integrating the
game of golf. Where his attorney is actually for Good

(01:16:00):
Marshall and so here in Atlanta, I've been working on
the Alphad Topholmes Museum and now we're kind of incorporating
programming and different things like that. So if anyone's ever
in the Atlanta area, please visit. But number one thing,
if you're looking to get into the game of golf,
please research history within the game. It is so vital
to continue this game, to move forward to where we're

(01:16:23):
not just branding it, but we're actually making impact and
continuing on the legacies that others have built. And that's
my number one thing is I really want to make
sure that we honor and that we steward legacy as well.
So yeah, it's glad to make that little note.

Speaker 2 (01:16:36):
Okay, well that's a great way to end this again.
Thank you and good luck going forward.

Speaker 3 (01:16:41):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:16:42):
All Right, y'all know what's coming up next, final segment
of his Politics that's on the way in just a moment.
All right, everybody, thank you for listening to another episode
of politics.

Speaker 1 (01:16:58):
I still love hearing from you.

Speaker 2 (01:17:00):
If you have a question or comment for me, you
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(01:17:20):
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(01:17:40):
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Speaker 1 (01:17:49):
I'm Your host Jamail Hill.

Speaker 2 (01:17:51):
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