Ep 29: The Politics of Negotiating Like A Girl - Featuring Amy Trask

On this week’s filibuster, Jemele answers a provocative question: Was the NBA draft lottery rigged so that the Dallas Mavericks could get the No 1 pick just months after trading superstar Luka Doncic to the Los Angeles Lakers? Later, Jemele is joined by Amy Trask, who was the first female CEO in the NFL. Amy covers her 20-year career with the Las Vegas Raiders, including what it was like to work with iconic owner Al Davis. Amy shares how she navigated the male-dominated world of professional football, and weighs in on some current league issues — a possible 18th regular-season game, the increase in games overseas, and the NFL broadening its reach on streaming platform. Finally, in Jemele’s new segment, the Final Spin, she shares her thought on Major League Baseball posthumously lifting Pete Rose’s lifetime ban for gambling.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, what's up everybody. I'm Jameel Hill and welcome to politics.
And I heard podcasts and unbothered production time to get spolitical.
After the Dallas Mavericks miraculously landed the number one pick

(00:20):
in the NBA Draft despite having just a one point
eight percent chance of doing so, there was only one
question nearly every sports fan was asking. Was the twenty
twenty five NBA Draft rig? At first I thought it
was a joke, but because I was seeing it everywhere,
I stated on Twitter, tell me y'all don't really believe this,
and that unleashed hundreds of responses. Mister Yo tweeted, I

(00:43):
believe it. I'm not sure what planet you're living on.
But there was no chance for the Cleveland Cavaliers to
get Lebron James, but they got them. I understand your job,
but you can't overlook the obvious. Cooper Flag should be
a Utah Jazz or Washington Wizard, but he's not.

Speaker 2 (00:58):
Why would you wish that on somebody anyway? From slander season?

Speaker 1 (01:02):
Why wouldn't you believe that this is the NBA we're
talking about?

Speaker 2 (01:06):
Nineteen twenties.

Speaker 1 (01:07):
Buffalo God chimed in, there is corruption at every level
in society. You don't think they aren't going to rig
something like this lots of money at stake.

Speaker 2 (01:16):
Let me be honest. I don't love conspiracy theories.

Speaker 1 (01:19):
I believe in skepticism, asking questions and connecting the dots.
Some conspiracy theories are fun, like believing Bigfoot exists, or
that the fifth digit of everybody's Social Security number indicates
their race. They say, all black people the fifth digit
of their Social Security number is an even number. And
then there's the amusing little conspiracy theory that we're all

(01:41):
secretly lizard people.

Speaker 3 (01:43):
A disturbing number of people, roughly twelve million, according to
some sources, strongly believe or think it's possible that the
US or even the world is run by extraterrestrial lizard
people in disguise.

Speaker 2 (01:57):
The lizard Illuminati baby.

Speaker 1 (01:59):
But when it comes to the NBA, the amount of
people that believe the NBA is rigged, and this is
putting it mildly, is truly disturbing. When Dallas landed the
number one pick in the draft, people actually believe that
this was the NBA's way of doing Dallas a.

Speaker 2 (02:12):
Solid for trading Luka Doncic to the Los.

Speaker 1 (02:15):
Angeles Lakers a few months ago, which effectively gave one
of their most important franchises and international superstar to replace
Lebron James once he goes into retirement. The old you
scratched our back, let us give you Cooper flag back
in return. But here's why that is absolute bunk. Do
you know how much had to go right for the

(02:36):
NBA to rig this? Do you know how many people
would have had to be involved. Let us not forget
that the only reason Dallas was even in the position
to get the number one pick is because the Miami
Heat won two play in games on the road, which
prevented them from getting the right to the eleventh seed
and a spot in the draft lottery. Let Us also

(02:58):
not forget Dallas had to win a point flip with
the Chicago Bulls to even be in the position to
win the number one pick. Now, none of this has
stopped the conspiracy theorists from going ballistic, especially now that
the NBA no longer televises the ping pong balls on
live TV, which has been the smoking gun and major

(03:18):
proof that the conspiracy theorists believe that something fishy is
going on.

Speaker 2 (03:22):
But even though they don't show it on live TV.

Speaker 1 (03:25):
Understand there are several people in the room when it happens,
including select members of the media, such as ESPN insider
Tim Bontemps, who tweeted that he has been in the
room when the ping pong balls are drawn.

Speaker 2 (03:38):
Tim wrote, the draft lottery isn't rigged. I've sat and
watched the ping pong balls come out. There's no rigging it.

Speaker 1 (03:45):
Rather than saying that, I do think a fair thing
to wonder is if the new rules have helped or
if they've created more problems than they've solved.

Speaker 2 (03:54):
Today didn't help that.

Speaker 1 (03:56):
So all those people, including journalists, who could have the
scoop of the.

Speaker 2 (04:00):
Century, are just gonna go along with the fix. Listen.

Speaker 1 (04:04):
The NBA has tinkered with the draft many times, including
most recently in twenty nineteen, which Tim was referring to,
and that is the smoking gun that explains so much
of what we've seen the last few years in the draft.
Blame the Philadelphia seventy six ers for this. Because the
seventy six Ers committed to trusting the process or basically

(04:26):
blatantly tanking, the NBA decided to step in and try
to curb teams from using tanking as a strategy to
get better draft positioning. From twenty fourteen to twenty seventeen,
the Sixers won forty seven games in three seasons, which
resulted in them drafting Ben Simmons and Joel and b.

Speaker 2 (04:43):
No championships, though, so.

Speaker 1 (04:45):
The NBA decided in twenty nineteen to lower the odds
any single team could have at winning the number one pick.
In twenty eighteen, the year before the NBA made some changes,
the worst team in the league had a twenty five
percent chance of being awarded the number one pick. A
year later, it was down to fourteen percent. Now, since
the NBA made that change, the team with the worst

(05:06):
record hasn't won the number one pick, and the last
three years the team with the worst record.

Speaker 2 (05:12):
Has actually picked fifth.

Speaker 1 (05:14):
As a Pistons fan, this is extremely triggering information because
the year that Victor Winmbinyana was the prize, the Pistons
had the worst record in the league, having won just
seventeen games, and they wound up in the fifth spot,
where they took Asar Thompson, who has tremendous potential and
I absolutely love, but damn Victor Winmbanyana. To quote Whitney Houston,
didn't we almost have it all. Another interesting trend since

(05:37):
the twenty nineteen changed is that this marks the second
straight season that a playing tournament team has won the lottery.
Last year it was the Atlanta Hawks who won the lottery,
and my Pistons, who won just fourteen games and lost
twenty eight in a row, again drafted fifth. Now, despite
these facts I presented, many an NBA fan will point

(05:57):
to the infamous frozen envelope involving Patrick Ewing in the
nineteen eighty five draft as definitive proof that the NBA is.

Speaker 2 (06:05):
Always up to something shady.

Speaker 1 (06:07):
To refresh your memory, in nineteen eighty five, the NBA
was in trouble. There were a number of players on drugs,
attendance was down. It was David Stearns's first year as
NBA commissioner. This was also the first year of the
league moved to a lottery system to determine draft order,
and the first time the draft was televised. Here's what
the conspiracy theorists say happen. When members of the accounting

(06:28):
firm that served as the official tabulator of the draft
put the envelopes in a rotating bin that the commissioner
would draw from to announce the draft board.

Speaker 4 (06:37):
As you can see, this is the representative from Erson Winnie.
He's the guy who's been tasked with putting the envelopes
into the giant circle drum. There's envelope one, two, three.
Now let's prosper second. Okay, so this is when this
is the envelope four. Number four is the nixt Watch
the pause he takes before he puts it in, bangs

(06:57):
it against the side right there. The envelope is now
all right, here's the head of security okay, giving a
little spin stern looking on thinking how am I gonna?

Speaker 5 (07:06):
Okay? Now, couldn't envelope get bent in this process?

Speaker 4 (07:11):
Maybe you know? But the fact that it was the
fourth one that we saw bang against the drum. Listen
to this exhale he gives. Why is he nervous? What's
he nervous for? It doesn't matter what happens for him.

Speaker 5 (07:26):
Okay, but it's his first year as the commissioner.

Speaker 3 (07:29):
Oh my god.

Speaker 4 (07:30):
So he's like, whatever team I pick out, their franchise
will be changed forever. When he sticks his hand and
you'll notice he'll take his hands put it on the envelope.
He could have picked the one he just touched first,
but he flips it over and then picks the one
in the bottom of the pile. Some suggest this flip
of the envelopes could be Stern searching for the bent envelope,
as history would show the envelope Stern chose belonged to

(07:53):
the Knicks. However, the most infamous alleged method of the
fix doesn't surround the bent envelope, but a frozen envelope.
Reports surface that claim the envelope had been placed in
a freezer, making it markedly colder and easier for starting
to pick.

Speaker 1 (08:10):
Out, and ever since then, most NBA fans have chosen
to believe that when it comes to the draft, if
it's too good to be true. It usually is like
when Cleveland wound up with the number one pick in
two thousand and three and drafted Lebron James, who grew
up forty minutes from Cleveland. But when the Bulls got
the number one pick in two thousand and eight and
drafted Derrick Rose, who just so happened to grow up right.

Speaker 2 (08:32):
There in Chicago.

Speaker 1 (08:33):
Now I'm not convinced the NBA can come up with
a solution that makes everybody happy. It's not good for
the product if teams start racing to the bottom, something
the NBA also tried to prevent by creating play in games.
I'm also convinced that even if the NBA showed someone
making the ping palm balls placing them inside whatever that

(08:53):
apparatus is that they used to roll them around in there,
NBA fans would just continue to cling to the conspiracy theory.
Sometimes it's easier believing that the league is rigged, especially
if your team isn't the one directly benefiting. It gives
you the clarity that you crave. But often the truth
just isn't that sexy. It's more tantalizing to believe that

(09:13):
behind closed doors, the Mavericks, the NBA, the owners, the
media all came together and decided Dallas, Dallas, of all places,
would be given a soft landing after trading a twenty
six year old superstar who led the league in scoring
during last year's playoffs. If the NBA was into rigging
things that benefit the league, how to hell did the
Los Angeles Clippers ever wind up with.

Speaker 2 (09:34):
The number one pick for all those years? Now? If
you believe this year's draft.

Speaker 1 (09:38):
Was rigged, then I guess you also believed that Bigfoot
the Lockness Monster will be teaming up with the Secret
Lizard people to take over the Illuminati on this flatter,
I'm Jamelle Hill, and I approved this message. Today's episode
is going to be a great one as I finally
get to have a conversation with someone I followed on
social media, going back and forth with on social media

(10:00):
in a positive way, of course, someone who is admired
by so many people or her leadership and straightforward nature.
She was once the highest ranking woman in the entire NFL.
She worked with one of the most iconic owners in
all of professional sports, Al Davis. She currently is chairman
of the board by Ice Cubes dazzling three on three league,
the Big Three. I can't wait to hear her best

(10:21):
Al Davis stories coming up next on Spolitics, Amy Trask, Amy,
it is such a pleasure to have you on the podcast,
especially since we've over the years, I guess, communicated mostly

(10:42):
through social media, so to see you sort of face
to face or through a screen is really wonderful. But
I'm going to start this podcast by asking you a
question that I ask every guest that appears on Spolitics,
and that is named an athlete or a moment that
made you love sports.

Speaker 5 (11:00):
Before I do that, I just want to tell you
what an honor it is to join you on your podcast, Jamel,
I have been a frien of yours since I first
saw you on television. I've been following you ever since.
And if I seem to those who watch listen to
your podcast a bit geeked out, is because I am.
I am being very dorky right now. I have been

(11:21):
since you invited me to join you. I feel like
I've been invited to hang out with the cool kids,
which by the way, I never ever was as I
was growing up. So this is a big deal for me.
Thank you for having me. It's an honor. I'm a
huge fan of yours. As to your question, you do
know that you have as a guest right now on
your podcast someone who went to law school. I do,
so I'm going to mount an objection and say, objection

(11:42):
your honor. Paul's for speculation, Paul's for a hypothetical. I'm
going to mount every objection I can because I can't
think of one particular moment that made me a sports fan.
You asked about a special player, perhaps the most special
moment and most special moment involving a player in my
career was Gene Upshot and I had joined the Raiders

(12:04):
and only been with the Raiders a couple of weeks,
and I was on the sideline at practice entertaining a
number of our business partners, our sponsors, are you know,
just our anchors, our business partners, and one member of
the media was towards the end of practice, so the
press had been let back in. Yells out in a
voice clearly intended for everyone here. Hey, Gene, what's it

(12:25):
like having a girl worked for the Raiders? And in
his booming, booming voice, Jane said, She's not a girl,
She's a Raider. I still get goosebumps when I think
about that. So I'm giving that to you as my
favorite sports moment, even though it was personal, and you
know when.

Speaker 1 (12:43):
I was a grown up, Well, no, I mean kind,
that still fits the correcteria. I'll allow it as the
thank you your honor they may say in a court room. Yes,
but nevertheless, though football has been a lifelong passion, passion
of yours.

Speaker 2 (12:58):
So what was it that ru you to the game
of football?

Speaker 5 (13:02):
I went to my first football game in person, when
I was in junior high. It was a junior high
school game, and I fell in love with the game
immediately because you know, yes, there the players are big
and strong and fast, but it's also a very cerebral game.
It's a game of matchups. Can your pass protection defeat
my pass rush? Can your corners keep up with my receivers.

(13:23):
It's really a game of chess, and it's a game
of chess with large, fast, strong chess pieces. So I
fell in love with the game when I was in
junior high and then became a Raider fan when I
was at school just up the road from them in Berkeley.

Speaker 1 (13:38):
Now, you started your multi decade career with the Raiders
as an intern, So how did you get this internship?

Speaker 5 (13:46):
So I'm sitting in grad school. There are couches in
the front, and I'm sitting there on a first year
and I'm listening to the second year students talk about
these things called internships and externships. I had never even
heard the word externship before, but I'm listening to them,
and I thought that sounds kind of fun. And I
picked up the phone and I called the Raiders, who
had just re located from Oakland to Los Angeles. The

(14:09):
same year, I moved back from Berkeley home to Los
Angeles to go to grad school. The Raiders had actually
tried to move a couple of years earlier, but been
ordered back by court order. And then, as as circumstances
would have it, I moved home to LA. The Raiders
come to La. I'm listening to these people talk about internships.
So I picked up the phone and I called the
Raiders and said I'd like to be an intern. And

(14:31):
the woman who answered the phone, because yes, kids, we
had landlines and receptionists, and she answered the phone and
patched me through to al Locusel and if you remember him, Janelle,
But she patched me through to al Locasel and I said,
I'd like to be an intern. And he said, well,
what's an intern? What's that? And I said, well, I'll
work for you and you won't pay me, because back

(14:52):
in those days, interns weren't paid. And he said, come
on down. And that's how I started my career.

Speaker 2 (14:58):
Nobody is hard.

Speaker 1 (15:00):
Free labor is hard to resist, right, Okay, So once
you started working with, you know, the Raiders, what did
you feel like your sort of ceiling was there, like
did you come in there with the intention of like,
this is the organization I want to stick with, or
were you just thinking this is just how I build
my football career.

Speaker 5 (15:22):
I was so thrilled to be part of the organization,
to be part of the team, part of a team
that I had fallen in love with. When I was
at CAL, I would have done anything. I did do anything.
I didn't care what my responsibilities were. I didn't care
what my role was. I just wanted to contribute. If
my job had been to pick up the scrunched up
gatorade cups on the sideline, well then I would have

(15:44):
been the best scrunch pick a upper there was. I
did have responsibilities that were primary in nature. But even
when I was intern and through the time I left,
when I was you know, named at some point a CEO.
You know, if the phone lines were busy in the
ticket off, I'd go down and I'd answer phones. I
would alphabetize will call envelopes, I would do I would

(16:06):
stuff will call envelopes. I wanted to contribute in any
way I could as a teammate and be part of
the team. It didn't matter to me what the role was.

Speaker 1 (16:17):
Now you of course, became the first woman to be
CEO of a NFL team when you were with the Raiders.
As you think about you having that distinction, now, what
does what does it mean to you?

Speaker 2 (16:31):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (16:31):
I don't think about that a lot. I'm often asked
what it feels like to be the first, and I
never I never reflected on that when Al named me CEO.
It's not something I think about often. But if it
helps any little girl looking at that thinking oh wow, well,
then that's a really cool thing. But it's not something
I have spent time reflecting upon thinking about, et cetera.

Speaker 1 (16:55):
You have said before, you said it in a previous
interview that your gender is only an issue if you
make it an issue.

Speaker 2 (17:02):
What did you mean by that?

Speaker 5 (17:04):
And I'm speaking for myself only? What worked for me. Look,
when I the best advice I've ever received in my
whole life was from my mom. She told me, when
I was a little idybity girl, to thine own self,
be true, and as moms can do, she repeated it
over and over and over, and as girls can do.
I rolled my eyes when she did. But the fact
is it's the best advice I've ever received, and the

(17:26):
reason I share. That is, I'm going to tell you
what worked for me doesn't mean it will work for everyone.
I didn't spend any time thinking about my gender. My
view was that if I wanted to walk into a meeting,
a locker room meeting, a coaching meeting, an NFL owners meeting,
a municipal meeting, a meeting with our bankers, any meeting
at all, and I didn't want anyone thinking about my gender.

(17:47):
It didn't make sense for me to be thinking about
my gender. And by the way, if someone else wanted
to worry about my gender, waste your time, because I'm
not wasting my time. I'm going to that meeting. I'm
doing my job. I'm cowoording myself in the manner I
think is best to get my job done as best
I can. Someone else wants to worry about the fact
that I'm a woman, go ahead and worry about it.

(18:08):
I'm not wasting my time.

Speaker 2 (18:10):
Well.

Speaker 1 (18:10):
But nevertheless, though it was by NFL standards, it was
definitely considered a rarity, if not an oddity, to have
a woman in the position that you were in. So
as you're in these high level meetings, as you mentioned
with NFL owners, how did you feel like they received
you well.

Speaker 5 (18:28):
The first owners meeting I went to well, and I
was the only woman in that owner's meeting for a
lot of years. At the first owners meeting, I went to, look,
you know, there's the big march meeting, which is seven
eight people a club. But the business gets done at
what are called one per club and two per club meetings.
And the first meeting I went to was a two
per club meeting, and the league has set up in
the back of the room before the meeting starts, coffee breakfast.

(18:50):
You can mill about, and then you take your seat
for the meeting. So here I am at my first
meeting and the owner of a team walks up to
me and asks me to get the coffee. And I
looked around and I realized, oh, I'm the only woman
in the room. That's not I'm on catering staff. And
I had to quickly decide how to proceed. I've been
criticized by a lot of people for how I did this.

(19:11):
They've told me you should have yelled at him, you
should have given him what for. But I handled it
in the manner that was to thine own self be true,
and it was effective. I smiled and I said, how
do you take your coffee? I knew that the meeting
would be starting within about ten minutes or so, and
we would walk into that meeting and he would see
me sit down in the meeting room. So I decided
to have some fun and asked him how he took

(19:31):
his coffee? Got in his coffee. The meeting started a
couple of minutes later, we walked to our tables, and
as luck or Happenstace would have it, the seats where
we were were immediately across, like as close as can
be to the seat where he was. Well, this team owner,
who I had never named and never will, sees me
take a seat in the meeting, and Jamel I could

(19:52):
see the blood draining from his face, and I just
started laughing, and he started laughing, And from and that
point forward he offered me his support and his encouragement
and helped me in any way he could throughout my
career and every single owners meeting thereafter, he asked me
how I would take my life.

Speaker 2 (20:12):
So became a good running joke between the two.

Speaker 5 (20:14):
Yes, it did.

Speaker 1 (20:16):
I guess when you think about a instance like that,
you know, do you think this? And I get it?
That you're not saying that all women should do this,
but you think it was more beneficial to you that
you didn't sort of make a big deal of it
and like sort of call him out and say, like,
you do realize that I'm on your level.

Speaker 5 (20:35):
I thought, you know what, I decided to have fun
with it. I decided, you know what, I'm going to
have fun with it. I don't know what. I've never
met this man, I don't know what he's like. I
think this is hilarious what I'm about to do. He
may not think it's funny. I don't really care.

Speaker 2 (20:48):
But I just.

Speaker 5 (20:48):
Decided to handle it in the manner that felt right
to me and do it in sort of a oh, okay,
I'll get your coffee, and when you see me walking
into that room and sitting down, and see how you respond.
And he responded beautifully, and, as I said, from that
point forward, was a huge advocate of mine.

Speaker 1 (21:05):
I know, in a way, this is kind of almost
too broad of a question given the person I'm talking about,
but Al Davis was one of the most infamous figures
in NFL history, an icon in his own right for sure.
What was it give us an idea of what it
was like working for him, working with him, like, what

(21:27):
was he actually like?

Speaker 5 (21:29):
Well, the biggest miss I can answer that most specifically
initially by saying, the biggest misconception about ol is that
he wouldn't tolerate disagreement, or he wouldn't tolerate anyone who
disagreed with him. There seems to be this lore, this
urban legend, if you will, but nobody could disagree without
let me tell you something, jail. If that were true,
I'd have been fired. About two weeks into my job,

(21:51):
he walked into a ring where I was sitting with
a coworker. He ripped into this guy like I can
only imagine a velociraptor would rip in the flesh. And
I realized, after about you know a number of minutes,
maybe five ten minutes, he was wrong. So he was
talking loudly, and I said, in a loud voice, because
I have a loud voice, and he was talking loudly,
excuse me, you're wrong. And I will never forget the

(22:15):
look on his face when his head turned towards me.
It was like Linda Blair and the exorcistm only there
was no green stuff coming out. And he looked at me,
and I said, look, you're wrong. If you were basing
your conclusion on accurate data. Accurate information, fair enough, good conclusion.
But you are basing your conclusion on inaccurate data. Well, Jamel,
we went back and forth, back and forth, with very

(22:37):
raised voices, not screaming, but a heated discussion. I learned
later that like a ton of people on staff lined
up outside the office because they were listening. One woman
even brought a box because she figured, all right, this
girl's mom. Well, after about twenty minutes or so, he says, oh, okay,
I got chack, I got it, and we went on

(22:57):
to have a great discussion. I disagreed with him over
the almost thirty years I worked for him more than
I agreed with him. And you know, I think that
first argument probably set up the basis for our relationship.
So that's the biggest misconception about him. And you know,
I would be wrong if I didn't note that. Of course,
I owe my career to the fact that he hired

(23:19):
without regard to race or gender, or ethnicity or any individuality,
which has no bearing whatsoever on whether one can do
a job. And he was doing that decades before. This
was a topic of discussion. I mean, when you think
about it, I became an intern in nineteen eighty three.
That was I don't even want to count how many
years that was, Yeah, please don't anyone count. And then

(23:42):
I joined the Raiders full time shortly thereafter. These conversations
that we're now having, which are important conversations, they weren't
conversations in the NFL or in many places, if anywhere,
back then. So you know, people there are people who
loved now people who couldn't stay. But if we're all
being intellectually honest, this is a man who hired in

(24:04):
the manner we should hire.

Speaker 1 (24:06):
Well, that's an interesting observation that you make, because you know,
obviously again you were the first female CEO of a
NFL team. He hired the first black coach in the
modern NFL, and art shall you know, even though he
didn't hire with regard to race, or gender or ethnicity,
the fact is the Raiders were a bit ahead a

(24:29):
lot of times than other NFL teams. Why do you
think that was part of the DNA of the organization.

Speaker 5 (24:35):
Well, and I may have stated that poorly when I
said he hired without regard to those things, I should
have not said it, maybe in a double negative way.
He hired in the manner I believe one should hire
those individualities have no bearing on whether one can do
a job. And he evaluated people without regard to those individualities.
He hired the people he wanted to hire, and that

(24:59):
set the tone the organization. He set the tone for
the organization.

Speaker 1 (25:03):
What would you say is the biggest disagreement that you
and Al Davis had?

Speaker 5 (25:07):
But you know what, we could fill up four hundred
bazillion team million tea of your podcasts with disagreements.

Speaker 2 (25:14):
Okay, maybe the most memorable. I don't know. I don't
know memorable or biggest, I don't know. I'm not sure.

Speaker 5 (25:18):
Well, okay, correct verb. We were negotiating a deal. I
was handling the negotiations of a deal, and it was
existential in nature to the team. And you know, if
I didn't complete this deal, you know, I don't know
that the team, well, the team would continue to exist obviously,
but not necessarily under the ownership that was there at
the time. And I was negotiating it in a manner.

(25:41):
Al was getting very very frustrated. We were both so tense,
we were our tension was as high as it ever was,
and he was snapping at me, and I was snapping
at him, and he didn't like the manner in which
I was handling the negotiation. He thought, you know, he
at one point said you have to be like cruse
Chev and hit the table and say yet, yet, yet.

(26:01):
And I looked at him and I'm like, well, that
didn't work out so well for Khrushow, did it. I
think it was cruse Ship. Yeah it was. But we
were arguing about how I was handling the negotiation and
why it wasn't getting done. Well, eventually it did get done,
and at the time it was the highest value ever
for what I was able to negotiate. So notwithstanding that,

(26:22):
we were disagreeing and arguing throughout the negotiations. Oh and
then at one point he spit out at me, you
negotiate like a girl. Well I didn't take offense, because look,
I'm the girly higher I'm the girly named CEO, so
I knew. I didn't care that I was a girl.
But he spit out, you negotiate like a girl, and
I walked out of the room. Well, when I got

(26:44):
the deal done and I brought the documents in for
him to sign it, dropped him on his table and
said like a girl and handed him a pen. That
was a pretty big one.

Speaker 1 (26:53):
Yeah, I guess hits why that's the title of your book, right.

Speaker 5 (26:57):
Like a girl.

Speaker 1 (26:58):
Yeah, so you spend all this time with the Raiders,
and then you made the decision to resign Mark at
this point, had sone had taken over the team.

Speaker 2 (27:08):
You know, is it.

Speaker 1 (27:09):
Accurate to say that part of the reason you resigned
is because you were not going to be able to
continue in the same role or what was sort of
the backstory behind your resignation.

Speaker 5 (27:19):
Took me a year to make the decision. That's it was.
And look, I recognize how fortunate I am in life
when I say to you, it's the hardest decision I've
ever had to make in my life. And it took
a year. I was like Hamlet to be or not
to be. I just I couldn't. It took me a
long time to make the decision. And there really was
no one reason. It just felt right to me. I

(27:43):
can't put a finger on one reason. I just felt.
You know, I've been here almost thirty years if you
count my internship. This is a transition for the team.
I'm ready to make a transition. And then I woke
up and I said to my husband, as I'm making,
you know, this whole decision over a year, I'm not
going to be able to decide what I do next
until I make this decision. So I gave notice. And

(28:06):
the next morning I woke up and I looked at
my husband and I said, I'm a blight on humanity.
I have nothing to do. And we laughed and he's like, well,
you work for Al for almost thirty years, why don't
you take a breath. But it was the hardest decision
I've ever made, but it was the right And you know,
when you make a decision like that, you don't know
if it's going to be the right decision or you're

(28:27):
going to regret it. And it was the right decision.

Speaker 1 (28:29):
I mean, what would you ultimately say was the biggest
lesson that you learned being with the Raiders that are
maybe even personally from Al Davis?

Speaker 5 (28:40):
You know, again, I'll just harp on the fact that
I was there for almost three decades, and so I
grew up. Not only did I grow up on the job,
I grew up period. I just grew up there. So
There were a lot of lessons that I learned to
thine own self be true, held very very true. Standing

(29:01):
up for the courage of your convictions, even when you
are the only one in the room taking a position.
All did that in league owners meetings. You know, he
often took a position that every other owner was against,
but if he believed in it, he stood up for
the courage of his convictions. I also learned that everyone

(29:25):
should lead in the style they believe is right for them.
Don't try to be something or be someone you're not.
Be yourself.

Speaker 2 (29:35):
Now.

Speaker 1 (29:35):
Unfortunately the Raiders, and I say unfortunately because I'm looking
at what has happened to Oakland as the city. They
don't have any major professional sports teams anymore. The A's
are gone. The Raiders moved to Las Vegas, which still
feels wholly unnatural to me. But you know, seeing what
has become of Oakland, because I know that was like

(29:55):
kind of one of the task things you were tasked
with is figuring out a way to have them stay there.
You know, when they moved to Las Vegas, as somebody
who was at inside the organization and was working very
hard to keep the team in Oakland.

Speaker 2 (30:12):
How did you view that move.

Speaker 5 (30:14):
Two ways and they're not mutually exclusive. For the fans
in Oakland and the Bay Area who were heartbroken, my
heart was broken. I know their passion, I know how
deeply they cared, and my heart was broken for them.
But to all the fans who were traveling to Oakland
from elsewhere and now would simply travel to Las Vegas
instead of Oakland or to the Bay Area fans who

(30:37):
travel with the team to Las Vegas, they have a magnificent,
magnificent stadium. And for those fans that are happy, I'm happy.
So I'm both heartbroken for the fans who are heartbroken
and happy for the fans who are enjoying a magnificent stadium.
And Jameel, as to your point about Oakland, You're absolutely right,
and it's both maddening and saddening. I don't even know

(30:59):
if sad thing it's a word, but it makes me
both mad and sad. The Warriors are still in the
region but not and you mentioned the A's, you mentioned
the Raiders. At some point, Oakland just has to look
at itself and say, okay, we're all for three, what
are we doing wrong? And I've yet to see Oakland
accept any responsibility for that.

Speaker 1 (31:19):
You're looking at the Raiders as an organization. The Raiders
haven't been to our super Bowl since two thousand and two,
and since then, I mean, we're you know, we're going
obviously on twenty plus years, they've only been to the
playoffs twice. I guess I don't want to ask the
broad question of like what is going on? But in
a way, it's kind of like what is going on?

(31:40):
Because I think, you know, given the Raiders history, it
just seems like there's been a long suffering, you know, status.
So how I mean, how confident are you that they
can kind of reinvigorate themselves as a franchise.

Speaker 5 (31:55):
I think they made some really good decisions this year.
I love the addition of Pete Carroll. I think some
of the decisions at head coaching, and maybe I'll say
it more directly, perhaps more bluntly, some of the prior
head coaches or not in my mind capable or should
have been head coaches. I think the hiring of Pete
Carroll is terrific. I think he's going to make a tremendous,

(32:17):
tremendous difference for that organization they have now in the
role of head coach, an adult grown up in the room,
so to speak, and Pete is far, far more than that.
Not only is he a terrific head coach, he's a
terrific person. I like the addition of Gina Smith. I've
been rooting and cheering for Gino for a long time.
I thought he was treated poorly or had a poor

(32:40):
situation in his first step. I was cheering for him
while he was in Seattle. I'd love to see Gino
continue to do well. I think he's a big addition.
I love the drafting of Action genty And I was asked,
you know, I got so much crap for that, people
saying I mean when I said on air that I
hope they drafted him, Amy, why would you ever draft
or running back in the top ten? And I answer

(33:01):
this way, I have two words for you, Marcus Allen,
So I love you, know, I just I think the
team looks to be headed in the right direction.

Speaker 1 (33:10):
And what do you think about the fact that Tom
Brady is a minority owner in the Raiders.

Speaker 5 (33:16):
I take no issue whatsoever with Tom. You know, people
assume that because of the tuck rule game, I don't
like Tom issues. Let me tell you, And I know
you knew that know this, so let me tell you.
It's just sort of perfunctory. Tom Brady did in that
instance what every fan of every team wants his or
horror quarterback to do in that situation. Doesn't matter what

(33:38):
your team is, doesn't matter who your quarterback is. If
your team is in that situation, you want your quarterback
to do what Tom Brady did. Now, Tom, no issue whatsoever.
I hope he can be good and help the organization
in terms of work ethic and otherwise. You know, he
does bring someone with him to the organization that I

(34:00):
think Mark needs to be a little bit leery of.
But that's not Tom. That is not Tom.

Speaker 1 (34:07):
Do you buy the Raider fan conspiracy theory that that
tuck rule was in retaliation against the Raiders, because.

Speaker 2 (34:16):
I don't, you don't know, I don't.

Speaker 5 (34:18):
I used to cite to out all the time Handlan's razor.
Never attribute to mendacity that which you can attribute to incompetence,
and so all the time something would happen, and now
you know they're out to get us. Now it's not mendacious.
It just it was wrong. It was stupid, It was incompetent.
I cited Handlan's razor to him unpteen times over the years.

(34:41):
I'm not a conspiracy theorist. Do I believe it was
the wrong call? Of course, I believe it was the
wrong call. Do I believe it was retribution for something? No?

Speaker 2 (34:51):
I don't you said that.

Speaker 1 (34:53):
You really thought that the Raiders taking Ashton genty was
a great move for the organization. Nevertheless, as we all know,
the story of the NFL draft was the precipitous fall
of Shador Sanders. What did you, as somebody who's been
a front office executive in the NFL, what did you make?

Speaker 2 (35:12):
What did you make of his fall?

Speaker 5 (35:14):
I was not surprised he didn't go in the first
or second round. I started to become surprised as he
continued to fall, and then I stopped myself from being surprised.
And here's why I always use the expression the march
of the lemmings. Those little animals that get in line,
and those little lemmings march behind one another. And this

(35:36):
is an expression I used during my years in the
league and since to describe team behavior, whether it's GM
behavior or organizational behavior. Teams. I shouldn't say all teams.
Al certainly wasn't hesitant, but many teams are hesitant to
step out of that line and do something that others

(35:58):
in front of them aren't doing, for fear of the
criticism it might evote, for fear of you know, what's
going to happen if I'm the lemming that stops out,
steps out of this march of the lemmings. There really
is you know, there's that mental there's that expression group think.
I hate the expression because I don't think group think
is think at all. So when he started to fall

(36:18):
and fall and fall, I thought, oh, we're seeing the
NFL do what it does. In many instances. No one
wants to veer out of that line and take a
chance when others in front of them haven't. So I
wasn't surprised he dropped out of one and two. I
started to be surprised, and then I stopped myself and said, aym,
you're just seeing your march of the lemmings again.

Speaker 2 (36:39):
So you think there was a level of.

Speaker 1 (36:45):
I don't know if fear is the right word, but
that you think teams are sitting there and saying, well,
why isn't anybody else drafted him like and.

Speaker 2 (36:54):
So they did. I do think there's yeah, yeah, I.

Speaker 5 (36:56):
Think that's you just said it far more articulately and
cleanly and clearly than I did, Which is, if you're
sitting there and he's available in three, and he's available
in four, or he's available in five before he went
in five, and you're the GM thinking well if I
take him, you know, am I subjecting myself to criticism?
And why is no one in front of me taking him?

(37:17):
Should I be the one who steps out of line
and take him? I do think there's a lot of
that group think mentality.

Speaker 1 (37:23):
Oh okay, yeah, Because I know a lot of people
have sort of intimated that this was like NFL collusion,
that all the teams got together.

Speaker 2 (37:32):
I was like, I don't think it.

Speaker 1 (37:34):
I don't think they are bold enough to have colluded
together to say really, And I'll.

Speaker 5 (37:40):
Go again to Hanlin's razor, never attribute to mendacity that
which you can explain by and some people say in
competence or stupidity. In this case, I'll say, never attribute
to mendacity that which can be explained by not wanting
to step out of that march of the lemons. I
don't think it was collusion.

Speaker 1 (37:56):
So you have given me mendacity. You've given me lemons
I mean, and I tell you your breath and your
breath and range will never cease to impress me for sure.
But there's a lot more NFL related stuff that I'd
love to get to you and talk to you about.
But we're gonna just take a very quick break and
we'll be right back with more with Amy tracks. Before

(38:28):
we took the break, we were talking about Shador Sanders.
There's some other NFL related topics I'd love to get
your thoughts on. Looking at the NFL now where they
have taken over Christmas Day, I'm sure the NBA loves
that we got a Black Friday game. Now there would
be more games overseas. When you look at how this

(38:51):
league is expanding, do you think that it could ever
reach a point of oversaturation.

Speaker 5 (38:58):
I don't know the answer to that question, but at
this point, if you were to ask me to predict
if that happens in the near future, my answer is no.
People tune in, people attend people by merchandise, people love
their teams. We haven't seen, at least to my knowledge,
any waning of interest as the number of games has increased,

(39:20):
and by the way, we may see it go from
seventeen to eighteen. Look, I started in the league when
they warrant even thirty two teams, So I've seen the
league expand both in terms of number of teams, number
of games, international games, and yet the fans are here.
So the answer to your question is, you know, maybe
maybe down the line. I don't see it happening in

(39:41):
the foreseeable future.

Speaker 1 (39:43):
Well, what do you make in general of the NFL
strategy here, because you know, now we have games on Peacock,
they feel very spread out, right, And I'll tell you
my Bowl prediction. I eventually they're going to pay per
view the Super Bowl. I'm not like, I totally could
see this happening, and by pay per view, Wow, I
think I could. I could see a scenario easily, especially

(40:06):
once they proved by having the moving games to Peacock
where people had to get subscriptions to go. I was like,
once they did that, I was like, and moving it
to Netflix, So if you want to watch the NFL,
you got to get a Netflix subscription. I realized that
Netflix has hundreds of millions of people, but this is
about adding more. I was like, I would not be
surprised if we got to a point where they would

(40:31):
really legitimately thinking about putting the Super Bowl on streaming,
putting it in some kind.

Speaker 2 (40:36):
Of pay per view type of format.

Speaker 1 (40:37):
I would not be surprised about this because of what
you said is like we get you know, in this
attention economy, the NFL is able to gather people's attention
in a way that pretty much nothing else can, and
so because of that, I think it gives them a
tremendous advantage in the marketplace. And at this point, the fans,
no matter how much they bitched about having to get

(40:58):
Peacock to watch the game, they still got pigoc So
it's like knowing that, I was like, eventually, it feels
like the NFL is going to continue to push these
scenarios where people have to pay more money to watch
the NFL.

Speaker 5 (41:13):
I agree with that comment. I would be stunned, but
you know what, lots of things happen that stunned me.
But I would be stunned if they do that with
the super Bowl. And if they do that with the
Super Bowl, someone needs to make sure that you are
on record as the person who predicted that, and then
you need to get a crystal ball and tell us
what's going to happen in the rest of the world.

(41:34):
I just it would stun the hell out of me
if they do that with the Super Bowl. But as
I said, I've been stunned a lot in life.

Speaker 1 (41:41):
You brought up something that has been at least among
the players. There's been a lot of pushback from them,
and that's the NFL adding another game, going to eighteen games.
Do you feel like the addition of eighteen games or
an eighteenth game, I should say that that's more of
a win and not an if.

Speaker 5 (42:00):
I do think it's a when, not an if. But
I also think, and if you're listening to me, NFLPA,
negotiate the hell out of this. That is not something
that the NFLPA should blithely agree to or agree to
without exacting some concessions that are very, very important. In

(42:21):
other words, it's you know, the league wants an eighteenth game,
fair enough, and I've spoken with players who are keen
on an eighteenth game because it's more revenues, and revenue
is share. But if that is something the league wants
as much as it appears in as much as I'm
aware that they want it, the NFLPA should say okay,
now let's talk about what we need for the players.

Speaker 2 (42:43):
You know.

Speaker 1 (42:43):
Looking at sort of the NFL's future and the things
that they want to do, it feels like that there
is some level of push in the league to have
a NFL team that is based overseas. How likely do
you see this happening, because there's been always been rumors that,
for example, the Jaguars then maybe relocating to London, Like,

(43:04):
how even likely is that in your mind?

Speaker 5 (43:07):
Well, I'm going to now become the amy. I was
in the league meetings when these discussions would occur, and
I'd say, hey, hi, just so you know, California, we're
on the other coast. And it used to drive me
nuts how people would talk about, well, you know, it's
an easy flight for the teams, and then they would
name every team on the Eastern seaboard to get over
to London. It's no longer to get to London for

(43:27):
the Giants, and it is to get wait a minute,
wait a minute, it's a different trip from California. So yeah,
and yes, I'm going on my I defend California at
all times. Rant if that happens Jamil. There's going to
have to be a lot of paradigm shifts in scheduling
because you cannot expect a California team, or even a
West Coast team, whether it's California or Vegas or you know, Washington.

(43:51):
I should either name a state or a city, but Washington, California, Nevada,
Colorado to fly over to London and people would say, well, am,
you could have your buy the next week. Well okay,
but teams get buys anyway. So now all you're doing
is diminishing those teams by weeks if they put a
team in Oh and by the way, here's the other

(44:14):
issue that I think is a big issue. So now
you're based in London, Okay, you want to try out
some free agents. Are you flying free agents from all
over the country to London to try out? Maybe you'll
have a base ops in the United States and you'll
try them out there, But then your gam won't there,
so maybe he'll zoom in and watch it by zoom.
There are answers to all of these things, but those

(44:36):
answers have to be figured out before they do it.
Can you put a team in London? Absolutely? If you're
going to put one. Should you put more than one?
I think maybe you put at least two so there's
not just one over there, and you can then have
teams go over for two weeks at a time. There
are solutions to all of these issues, but you better
find the solutions before you do it.

Speaker 1 (44:56):
In general, how do you feel about the NFL continue
youing to broaden its sort of international you know reach
we have games in Mexico City, it is going to
be in London. I feel like there's a game in
another country that I'm totally blanking on right now.

Speaker 5 (45:11):
But the Brazil's want Brazil's one, and Brazil is one.
You're a Germany's one, and I love it. I will
go down to my last day maintaining that sports has
the power to unite. Sports has the power to bring
together people who might otherwise not believe they have anything

(45:32):
in common. And if by placing games around the world
in any sport helps make the world a little closer,
a little friendlier, makes people realize that, hey, I didn't
think I had anything in common with someone from that
country or that country or that country, but we all
do have this in common, and maybe that helps people

(45:52):
believe that we have other things in common as well,
So you know, I'm I'm going to be a hopeless optimist.
Not hopeless, I'll just be an optimist in that regard.

Speaker 1 (46:03):
As you look around the league, now there are women
in front office positions. You know, there's been female owners before,
so you know that isn't necessarily particularly new. But the Raiders,
of course, they have a president that is a woman
and a woman of color. On top of that, and
even across the league seeing more women who are assistant coaches.

(46:24):
How close or maybe far away do you think we
will or maybe just the question is in general, do
you think we will ever see a woman as a
head football coach in the NFL.

Speaker 5 (46:36):
I don't know the answer to that. It will all
depend on how these women do as assistant coaches and
do they continue to rise and perform and demonstrate that
they can help a team win. And I do hope
that there are owners who are like Al was willing
to hire a girl because I was in my early twenties.

(46:57):
I really was a girl. I believe she can help
me win. I'm going to hire her as a head coach.
I hope that that can happen. That's what should be
the determining factor. Can you help me win? I will
tell you, Jamil, In all my years in the league,
never once did I have an interaction with a player
in which I sense there was any concern on the

(47:19):
player's part, any objection to the player's part, any resistance
on the player's part, to the fact that I was
I am female. Players want people who can help them win.
If they think that you're contributing to the organization, if
they think that you're doing things that help make the
team better, then they're going to support you.

Speaker 2 (47:37):
Now, Amy, you pivoted a bit.

Speaker 1 (47:40):
You know you're involved with the Big Three in helping
them and being a CEO or there.

Speaker 2 (47:47):
How did you get connected with the Big Three?

Speaker 5 (47:49):
So I left the Raiders, move back down to Los Angeles.
Get a phone call from Jeff Quantinitz and he and
ice Cube have been longtime, long time, long time business partners.
He said, he and Q performing this new league and
did I want to be involved new phone? Who is
I mean? I just was not interested. And I met
with him in Cube and then I was on board.

(48:10):
And I jumped on board not necessarily because of the league,
well not because of the league itself, but because of
the opportunity to work with those two men. Look, not
everybody who's listening is going to know who Jeff Quatinitz
is Google and though you should, but people know who
Cube is. And I will tell you that what I've
learned through working on the Big Three, I've known since

(48:32):
Nwa burst on the scenes that he is just a magnificent, magnificent,
phenomenal artist. I learned over the years that he's an
even better man. And let me tell you what I
learned through the Big Three. He is a sensational businessman
and again an even better human being. So I jumped
on board to work with the two of them. I

(48:52):
served as CEO for a bit of time. I remain
on the board of directors. And you know what, We're
going into our eighth season. Everybody said to you, not
going to make it, never going to make it, never
going to make it. Well, guess what, everybody, season eight,
We've made it. And the people involved in the league,
the players, the coaches, and I'll just tell you this.
You know, this goes to your questions about being a

(49:13):
woman and being a head coach. After our first season,
we made a change at commissioner and we elevated Clyde
Drexler to the role of commissioner, and he had been
a coach, so we had to replace Clyde as a coach.
And I was sitting in a room with Cube and
Jeff and Clyde, and I said, how about Nancy Lieberman?
And not one of them batted an I at my

(49:35):
suggestion that she was you know here, she is a woman.
When they said, great idea. We hired Nancy Lieberman season one,
won the championship. The next year the league expanded, we
needed another head coach. We hired Lisa Leslie season one.
She won the championship. And I will always remember George
Gervian at one point saying I need to learn to

(49:56):
coach like the two of them. And if I can
just give one really really special moment. It was after
Nancy won that championship, and we're all sitting in the
room at a very big press conference and the players
at the dais are being asked in every single question
the prefaces, well you have a woman as a head coach,
or what's it like having a woman as a head
coach or a woman is coaching and one of the players,

(50:19):
I'm sorry, I don't remember which one grabbed the microphone
and said, stop starting every question by noting that she's
a woman. You're thinking about that, We just consider her
our head coach, and I got goosebumps.

Speaker 2 (50:35):
Well to ask another question about a woman.

Speaker 1 (50:38):
There was a lot of speculation about whether or not
Kaitlyn Clark was going to be part of the Big Three.
That gained, you know, quite a bit attraction in terms
of a lot of people, because reportedly you all put
a multimillion dollar offer to her on the table. But
what did you think about the idea of Kaitlyn Clark

(50:59):
playing in the in the Big Three?

Speaker 5 (51:00):
Well? I think she should have done it for a
lot of reasons. But I will make clear first that
when Cuban Jeff made that offer, it was a sincere offer.
It wasn't for pr it wasn't a stunt, it wasn't performative.
They wanted Caitlin to really look at this offer as
a sincere offer and join the league if she wanted.
Wouldn't it be fun to see Caitlin going up against

(51:22):
the men and maybe in some instances schooling some of
them in the Big Three. I thought it would be terrific.
I obviously wish her well, no matter what she does,
and I'm rooting for her success now, but I think
it would have been phenomenal for her to join the
league and she still can.

Speaker 1 (51:39):
Yeah, I'm going to give a slightly different opinion. I
actually am glad she.

Speaker 2 (51:43):
Didn't join the league. That has nothing to do with
why this is why.

Speaker 1 (51:46):
It is because one, I think she represents a different
generation of player in the sense that she actually grew
up watching the WNBA. There were a generation of women
that didn't get that opportunity. So I just based off
the things she said that it's important to her to
grow her the league she wants to be a part of,
which is the w NBA. The other thing I would

(52:07):
have been concerned about is whether, like, you know, even
playing in a in a league, you know, playing in
a league against men, the novelty of that, While it
would have been fascinating for a lot of people, it's like,
you know, what happens.

Speaker 2 (52:23):
If she's not as good or if you.

Speaker 1 (52:26):
Know, like you know, of course like that people sometimes
people can weaponize women playing against men against women, and
so I worried about, like this, yeah, what this might
look like from a broader context of.

Speaker 5 (52:40):
Okay, I had not thought of that point, and it's
a really good point. I will say, as to the
w n B a point. We did let her know
that we would not object to her doing both. Now
I don't know if the w NBA would have been
comfortable with her, and there are some overlap issues to
work out, but your your point is well taken, and
I had thought of that, Thank you.

Speaker 1 (52:58):
But that being said, the idea of women playing in
the Big Three, like, how much do you see that
as maybe part of the Big Three strategy going forward?

Speaker 5 (53:10):
Don't know the answer to that. It'll be looked at
if it makes sense. It makes sense, and it'll be
evaluated on a one off. By the way, speaking of three, Jamil,
I'm interrupting myself to tell you this. You know, this
is the first year we're going to have teams that
are location based as opposed to just traveling everywhere. And
one of them is in LA and you have a
standing invitation to come.

Speaker 1 (53:28):
Oh listen. My husband and I we went to a
Big Three game in Detroit. I remember that a couple
of years ago. And when I tell you we had
a blast, I mean I watched the product on TV
and know that it's a good product, but seeing it
in person was really fantastic, and especially seeing players like
I look.

Speaker 2 (53:47):
At it and say I remember when you were in
college or I remember.

Speaker 1 (53:49):
Even the nostalgia of it is also, I think, very
inviting on top of it being just generally a good
brand of basketball.

Speaker 5 (53:55):
Oh, you're invited whenever you'd like to come.

Speaker 1 (53:57):
Oh, I will listen. You don't have to threaten me
with a good time, trust me, you know. And as
we're talking about the Big Three, ice Cube has alluded
to this before that the NBA hasn't.

Speaker 2 (54:09):
Been particularly welcoming of the Big Three.

Speaker 1 (54:12):
What do you make of that from the NBA's part, Like,
I kind of don't get why they wouldn't be.

Speaker 5 (54:18):
Well, that was very diplomatically stated that they haven't. Well,
very diplomatic, you know.

Speaker 2 (54:24):
I was trying to ask a neutral ques.

Speaker 5 (54:26):
You did that beautifully. It's very, very, very disappointing. You know,
leagues speak often about helping their players when they're done
with the game. When they're done, how would we help
them transition? What can be next for them? Well, guess what, NBA,
here's how you can be helping your former players and
some your former head coaches. So you know, you can

(54:48):
talk all you want about wanting to help players transition.
You can talk all you want about helping your players
find new opportunities, exciting opportunities, looke opportunities, and your former
head coaches or your former coaches. I should add that
as well. But then when you're given an opportunity to
you don't Why wouldn't We can all ask this as

(55:10):
a hypothetical, your honor, why wouldn't you if you're the NBA,
say wow, let's embrace this. What a phenomenal way to
help our players continue their careers, to help our coaches
continue their careers. I think what they're doing is wrong.

Speaker 2 (55:25):
Yeah, that's why I said.

Speaker 1 (55:26):
I don't really get the resistance because, as you said,
like this is to me also helping their game, because
these are all players that played in the NBA at
one time or another, or as you mentioned, in general,
you would think that they would want to see their
former players succeed in a different avenue.

Speaker 2 (55:45):
Right, that's a good thing for their right and even.

Speaker 5 (55:48):
If they don't sense of value in it to themselves,
do the right thing well.

Speaker 1 (55:54):
In addition to always asking guests that appear on spolitics
about their favorite sports moments. I also in the podcast
by asking what I call a messy question, and this
is where we make the headlines, Amy, this is where
we make the bogs.

Speaker 5 (56:08):
All right, Okay, I love messy questions. And before I answer,
I'm going to tell you I love the name Smallatives.
It's just Billy, and I hope you trade mark. I
hope you copyrighted that.

Speaker 1 (56:16):
You know, I probably shouldn't do that.

Speaker 5 (56:19):
Don't do that.

Speaker 1 (56:20):
But considering you're a lawyer, you that was very very
salient advice. But here's my messy question for you. If
the Denver Broncos called you tomorrow and asked you to
be CEO, would you do it?

Speaker 5 (56:36):
Easy answer, No.

Speaker 1 (56:38):
When I left the Raiders, and notice how I perfectly
I purposely picked the rival of the Raiders.

Speaker 5 (56:43):
Yeah, of course you did. Of course you did. The
answer is an easy one for me.

Speaker 4 (56:48):
No.

Speaker 5 (56:48):
When I left the Raiders, I was contacted by a
number of teams interested in talking to me about opportunities there,
and I graciously thanked them and said, no, Jamel, there
are people that moved from team to team to team
to team, and if that works for them, that's great.
During my years in the league, I worked with people
who were with one team one year, another team three

(57:10):
years later, another team two years later, un team people
with whom I worked aroundly. And I'm not simply talking
about coaches, where that's dera ger. I'm talking about front
office people, football staff, scouts, GMS, front office people, business people.
They moved from team to team, to team to team.

Speaker 2 (57:29):
You know.

Speaker 5 (57:29):
I worked with people who one year were wearing you know,
the green of the Eagles, and then maybe the blue
of the Lions, and so on and so forth. I
was a raider. I didn't view that as fungible. I
didn't view myself as an employee of an NFL team.
I was a raider. And to me, I'll say it again,
that wasn't fungible. It wasn't and it still isn't fungible.

(57:54):
I was a raider. That was my career in the NFL.

Speaker 2 (57:57):
So were you?

Speaker 1 (57:59):
Was there ever a team that presented you an offer
that made you rethink that.

Speaker 2 (58:04):
That you were like, wow, this is kind of this
is kind of tempting.

Speaker 1 (58:08):
Never, And again, I mean was I presented with an offer, yes,
but nothing that was like tantalizing, Nothing.

Speaker 5 (58:16):
Could compel me there. I mean, look, I can't tell
you that if someone said come, no, I guess I
can tell you, you know, if someone said, here's you know,
a whole bunch of money, come join us, that no,
I was a raider. That's not fungible to me.

Speaker 1 (58:31):
Well, that of kind of loyalty is difficult to is
difficult that we don't often see it, I should say,
in sports in general. So I admire you for that,
because I would imagine that that there was probably quite
a few teams now.

Speaker 5 (58:46):
And I don't judge anyone who moves around what works.
You know, to thine own self be true, my mom,
by the way, you know, to thine own self be true,
as my mom told me, I will admit to you
right now, it wasn't until I was in college that
I learned that that that was Shakespeare. I thought, I
thought my mom made that up.

Speaker 2 (59:03):
Well, your mom was taking credit for that.

Speaker 5 (59:05):
I just thought my mom made that up. And then
I'm in college. We can all discuss some other time
how it was that I got all the way to
college without knowing that was Shakespeare. But I didn't know
that was Shakespeare.

Speaker 2 (59:15):
That's funny. Well, you know the fact that your mom planted.

Speaker 5 (59:19):
That seed and my mom Shakespeare whatever.

Speaker 1 (59:21):
Yeah, that says a lot, and the fact that you
stuck with it obviously it has served you well. Well, Amy,
I want to thank you for spending this time with
me for you know, learning more about your career and
of course hearing your thoughts in in perspective on you know,
a variety of things happening in the NFL. And yeah,
good luck and continue success especially with the with the

(59:43):
Big Three.

Speaker 5 (59:44):
Thank you and continue good success to you. I wish
you all the best for success and happiness. And when
I tell you that I really really geeked out when
you invited me to join you, I am not exaggerating.
This is a moment for me to get to hang
out with the cool kid.

Speaker 1 (01:00:00):
All right, Well, I take that as a sincere compliment,
so I appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:05):
Look at that somebody thinks I'm cool, amazing.

Speaker 5 (01:00:07):
I only say what I mean, and I always mean
what I say.

Speaker 2 (01:00:10):
Amen of that.

Speaker 1 (01:00:12):
One more segment to go coming up next, the Final Spin.
So I've been struggling to try to come up with
a catching name for this segment, and I think I
finally got it. Think being the operative word here because

(01:00:32):
I would describe this as a fluid situation. Now, what
I've been doing is answering the questions you all send me.
But I won't lie. Sometimes you all aren't that talkative.
So in the meantime I hear by Kristen this final
block of politics, the final spin. Now, spin is something
that is very routine in politics. For example, the Presidents
spun his administration giving refugee status and expedited citizenship to

(01:00:55):
fifty nine white South Africans as a good deed since,
according to him, he has helped them escape a terrible
genocide on white people in South Africa. Small note, there
is no genocide of white people happening in South Africa. This,
of course happens in sports as well. And for the
very first final spin in politics history, I'm going to
give the topic, give you the spin, and then the truth.

Speaker 2 (01:01:18):
Y'all got that all right? Follow along?

Speaker 1 (01:01:21):
So the topic is Major League Baseball lifting the lifetime
ban on shoeless Joe Jackson and Pete Rose, therefore making
them eligible for the Hall of Fame. I'm going to
put shoeless Joe Jackson to the side for a minute,
because to me, this is all about Pete Rose.

Speaker 2 (01:01:35):
Here's the spin.

Speaker 1 (01:01:36):
For Major League Baseball Commissioner Rob Manfred, who said this
in a statement. In my view, once an individual has
passed away, the purposes of Rule twenty one have been served. Obviously,
a person no longer with us cannot represent a threat
to the integrity of the game. Moreover, it is hard
to conceive of a penalty that has more deterrent effect

(01:01:56):
than one that lasts a lifetime with no reprieve. Therefore,
I have concluded that permanent ineligibility ends upon the passing
of the discipline individual, and mister Rose will be removed
from the permanently ineligible list. Now you've heard the spand
here's the truth. The President punk Manfred into doing this. Now,

(01:02:17):
Trump has made it very clear he wants Pete Rose
in the Hall of Fame. Baseball has an anti trust exemption,
and having that exemption, which allows MLB control over television
rights and allows them to restrict competition, it's extremely lucrative
to maintain that anti trust status. It sure does help
if one stays in good graces with the government, which
includes extending an olive branch over something the president has

(01:02:40):
publicly campaigned for. Now, lifting the band doesn't mean Pete
Rose is automatically in the Hall of Fame. The Hall
of Fame's Historical Overview Committee can nominate Rose and place
him on the twenty twenty seven Classic Baseball Era Committee.
Then he would need twelve votes by the six team
member committee, who are made up a former players, executive
and writers and historians. Now maybe they want to keep

(01:03:03):
Trump happening too. Now, even in death, Pete Rose doesn't
deserve the band to be lifted. He bet on his
team when he was manager of the Cincinnati Reds. He
then lied about it for nearly twenty years. One of
the most sacred rules in professional sports is that athletes
cannot bet.

Speaker 2 (01:03:19):
On the game that they play or manage.

Speaker 1 (01:03:21):
Now, I realize, with the professional leagues now being in
bed with professional gambling sites, the waters get a little murky.

Speaker 2 (01:03:27):
By letting rolls in, it opens the floodgates.

Speaker 1 (01:03:30):
It also sends the message that the integrity of the
game is somehow negotiable, and that's the final spid. Now,
still want your feedback, You can hit me up on
social media or email. I'm at Jamail Hill across all
social media platforms, Twitter and Instagram, fan based, blue Sky
and threads. Please use the hashtags politics. You also have
the option of emailing me at Politics twenty twenty.

Speaker 2 (01:03:51):
Four at gmail dot com.

Speaker 1 (01:03:53):
You can also send me a video of your question
or comment, but please make sure it's thirty seconds or less.
Don't forget to follow and subscribe to Politics on iHeart
and follows Politics Pod on Instagram and TikTok. Politics is
spelled s p O l I t i c S.
A new episode of Politics drops every Thursday on iHeart
podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. This is politics,

(01:04:15):
where sports and politics don't just mix, they matter. Politics
is the production of iHeart Podcasts and the Unbothered Network.
I'm your host Jamel Hill. Executive producer is Taylor Schakoigne.
Lucas Hymen is head of audio and executive producer. Original
music for Spolitics provided by Kyle VISs from wiz Fx