Ep 32: The Politics of the Can-do Mindset - Featuring Candace Parker

On this week’s filibuster, Jemele questions whether this year’s NBA Finals between the Oklahoma City Thunder and the Indianapolis Pacers means we’ve seen the end of NBA dynasties and superstar-heavy teams. Jemele is then joined by women’s college basketball legend Candace Parker, who discusses her new book, The Can-Do Mindset. Candace shares how she feels about her jersey being retired by both the WNBA’s Los Angeles Sparks and Chicago Sky, especially considering her once-rocky relationship with the Sparks. She also explains what she’d like to see the WNBA do to support its players more, and what she’d tell budding superstar Angel Reese if she were her coach. Candace also reveals why she waited until well after she was married to her wife, Anna, to come out.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, what's up, everybody. I'm Jamelle Hill and welcome to politics.
And I heard podcasts and unbothered production. Time to get spolitical.
Do you know who the single most important player is
in this year's NBA Finals. It's Paul George. Now he's

(00:24):
the reason both the Pacers and the Thunder are in
the finals. Now, equal value for a superstar often hasn't
been a thing in the NBA, But in the case
of both of these teams, they flipped Paul George like
the Barkstales used to step on the package. Now, before
I break down exactly how that happened, realize that this finals,
and really the last four NBA Finals, are perhaps representative

(00:44):
of a new era in the NBA, an error in
which super teams are no longer the wave and you
no longer need a generational superstar in order to win
a championship. From the twenty fourteen fifteen season to the
twenty eighteen to twenty nineteen season, there were two teams
who were primarily appearing in the finals, the Golden State
Warriors and the Cleveland Cavaliers. Now, Golden State won three

(01:07):
championships in those five seasons. The Cavs appeared in four
straight NBA Finals during that span, winning an NBA title
against Golden State in twenty sixteen, that infamous three to
one comeback that is arguably the most impressive feat on
Lebron James's extensive resume. But when the Raptors beat the
Warriors in six games in the finals in twenty nineteen,

(01:28):
that was a fourth in the row, and ever since then,
a different team has won the NBA Championship every year.
This is not exactly how things have worked throughout NBA history.
The league has largely been defined by super teams and dynasties.
Since the NBAABA merger in nineteen seventy six, there have
been forty nine NBA champions The Celtics and Lakers have

(01:51):
combined to win seventeen championships since that time. Six other
franchises have won more than two. The Bulls won six,
the Spurs won five, and the Warriors have won four.
But there was a significant change that has taken place
in the last collective bargaining agreement, making it far more
expensive to keep superstar heavy teams together, allow the Boston

(02:12):
Celtics to enter the chat now next season. The Celtics
have one hundred and ninety seven million dollars committed to
five players, and that payroll, combined with the luxury tax penalty,
means their total spending next season could exceed five hundred
million dollars fifteen million dollars and don't you thank you
getting up, Chelsea Clinton. The Phoenix Suns, who may have

(02:32):
put together one of the most disastrous super teams of
all time, have the special distinction of becoming the first
NBA team in league history to reach four hundred million
in combined team salary and luxury tax during the twenty
twenty four twenty five season. If the Suns don't blow
this team up, their combined salary and luxury tax bill
for the next season will be an estimated five hundred

(02:53):
and twenty six million dollars. That's tricking, even if you do,
got it. This change in the seat has created a
new winning formula and possibly killed the NBA dynasty. The
last few champions, as well as this year's Finals participants,
have all been built in similar ways. A couple superstars
or franchise level players who are surrounded by depth youth,
and some blue guys who have championship or deep playoff experience.

(03:17):
Indiana center Miles Turner said this after Game six against
the Knicks, in which the Pacers clinched their path to
the NBA Finals. I think it's a new blueprint for
the league.

Speaker 2 (03:27):
Man.

Speaker 1 (03:27):
I think the years of the super teams as stacking.
It's not as effective as it once was. Since I've been.

Speaker 2 (03:32):
In the league. This NBA is very trendy. It just shifts.

Speaker 1 (03:36):
But the new trend now is just kind of what
we're doing. Ok Se does the same thing. Young guys
get out and run and defend. So it's no longer
about this.

Speaker 3 (03:46):
But we also know you three Kings came down here
to win championships, not one championships, Lebron, tell us about that, not.

Speaker 2 (03:55):
Two, not three, not four, not five.

Speaker 4 (03:59):
Not fix.

Speaker 2 (04:01):
It's more about this, and let's check it with Nick.
Thanks Chris, Isaiah.

Speaker 4 (04:09):
You guys went on that massive eighteen and nothing run
in that third quarter. What's happening out here when you
guys are totally in tune like that?

Speaker 2 (04:18):
Oh man, We're just playing together as a team, right.

Speaker 3 (04:21):
We played with energy, we play hard, we played for
each other, and we think that's the recipe for success.
And so we're gonna keep rolling that way executing the
game plan floor threes.

Speaker 4 (04:30):
For you tonight, and you seem to get them in
so many different ways, And I just wonder, you know,
how have you managed to expand your menu from the
three point line?

Speaker 2 (04:40):
Hello?

Speaker 3 (04:40):
Dan, Hello, I mean just being fronts of time contained,
does a really good job of finding me when I'm open.
So I'm out there trying to make plays, play off
the catch and do what I'm supposed to do.

Speaker 4 (04:51):
Eight guys in double figures tonight. It's only the fourth
time it's happened ever in Okay see history. What's it
feel like on the bench and on the floor when
you I have so many guys going.

Speaker 3 (05:01):
Like I said, the ball has energy, and when they
have energy on the floor to bench, hat's energy. So
it's fun all the way around, no matter where you're at.

Speaker 2 (05:07):
Would you like to enjoy the game?

Speaker 3 (05:08):
We do this every single day, so why not enjoy it?

Speaker 5 (05:11):
You clearly do enjoy it. Thanks you look good man.

Speaker 1 (05:18):
Man shout out to the sideline, reported Nick Gallo, who
remained composed despite the collegial shenanigans of this Oklahoma City
Thunder team.

Speaker 2 (05:25):
Now that's a pro.

Speaker 1 (05:26):
Now in today's NBA, it's about the Mini and that's
how Paul George became the most important player in these
NBA finals. That's happened to the delarea and go back
to twenty seventeen when the Pacers traded George, a perennial
All Star, to the Oklahoma City Thunder for Victor Oladipot
and Domatized Sabonis. Now to get this next part, you
might need to break out an organizational chart, so do

(05:48):
your best to keep up. Oladipot became an All Star
with the Pacers, as did Simonis. The nia issues prompted
the Pacers to deal ola Depot to Houston in twenty
twenty as part of a fourteen trade that edit the
Pacers Karris Lavert and a pair of second round picks.
One of those second rounders became the thirty second overall
pick in the twenty twenty three draft, which the Pacers

(06:09):
package along with the number twenty nine overall pick in
the same draft, or a twenty twenty four first round
draft pick from guests who the Oklahoma City Thunder. That
pick was one of the two first round draft picks
that Indiana sent to the Toronto Raptors in January twenty
twenty four for Pascal Siaka, who just won the Eastern
Conference Finals MVP. The Pacers flip Karris Lavert, which led

(06:31):
to Andrew Nimphard and Ben Sheppard. And remember how I
said Indiana got both Oladipo and Simonis. Well Sibonis became
Tyrese Halliburton, who the Pacers traded for in twenty twenty two.
So for those scoring at home, trading, Paul George got
the Pacers four quality players Halliburton, Siaka, Nimhard, and Shepherd.
But Paul George wasn't done building one potential championship franchise.

(06:52):
He built another one in the Oklahoma City Thunder and
helped deliver the Thunder another MVP player. Paul George had
just spent two years with the Thunder before he was
traded in twenty seventeen because the Clippers desperately wanted another
All Star in a pair with Kawhi Leonard. Okay, see
said cool and ran the Clippers pockets. They traded George
for Shay Gilgris, Alexander and Danilo Gallinari. And not one,

(07:15):
not two, not three, not four, not five, Okay, I'll
skip to it. They got seven draft picks by the way.
If you're the Clippers, how does it feel to give
up that many draft picks when you had an MVP
right there on your roster? Now that truly is some
Clipper shit. One of those fifty eleven draft picks got
the Thunder Jaylen Williams, and also because of that deal,

(07:37):
in this year's draft, the Thunder half picks fifteen, twenty
four and forty.

Speaker 2 (07:42):
Four a Milwaukee.

Speaker 1 (07:43):
Are you listening Forget about trust the process, trust trading
Paul George. The NBA is trying to mirror the NFL,
which has now thrived off parody for decades. You will
always need a great player to win, but now I'm
not so sure if you need a generational player to win,
and trying to recreate the banana increasingly seems like a
flawed plan. Here's the new recipe for success. Build around

(08:05):
a great franchise or superstar player. Then pick up or
draft in Alice Caruso, get you a Check Holmgren and
og Annobi, a Malie Beasley, a Jade McDaniels, get you
some young guys who can guard multiple positions.

Speaker 2 (08:18):
And then trade Paul George.

Speaker 1 (08:20):
Now I'm kidding, unless you have Paul George, then you
should probably trade them. But in all seriousness, if you're
a fan of the Thunder or the Pacers, enjoy this
moment because in today's NBA another championship run is definitely
not promised. I'm Jamel Hill, and I approve this message.
I'm extremely excited about today's guest because I am in

(08:40):
the company of a basketball legend, basketball royalty. She's won
at every level, high school, college, the Olympics.

Speaker 2 (08:48):
And the WNBA.

Speaker 1 (08:49):
She was the first woman to ever dunk in an
NCAA tournament game. She is the only WNBA player to
win Rookie of the Year an MVP in the same season.
She won multiple wn NBA championships with different franchises, and
as a result, she will have her jersey retired by
two different teams. On top of her accomplished basketball career,
she's become one of the best basketball analysts on television

(09:12):
and right now, she has an incredible book out called
The Can Do Mindset. That's a perfect title because there
is literally nothing this woman can do.

Speaker 2 (09:21):
Coming up next on Spolitics, Candace Park.

Speaker 1 (09:34):
Candice, I'm going to start this episode of s Politics
by asking you a question I ask every guest that
appears on this podcast, and that is name an athlete
or a moment that made you love sports.

Speaker 6 (09:46):
I remember sitting on the couch in nineteen ninety eight
and watching Jordan cross up Russell and him like doing
that bounce after he hit the pull up jump shot
where everybody knew he was going to hit it, And

(10:06):
I was already loving sports, but I wasn't in love.
And at that moment, I feel like I was in
love because I wanted to be the person that was
able to take that shot. I wanted to be the
person that worked to be on that stage, and it
just kind of set the tone of like the expectation
of winning. And the Chicago Bulls did that, you know.

Speaker 5 (10:26):
Six times in the nineties. It was just wild.

Speaker 6 (10:30):
So yeah, that was the moment I remember vividly watching
and loving.

Speaker 1 (10:35):
Yeah, it's I'm not surprised with you being from you know,
basically right outside of Chicago, that you would pick a
Bulls moments as your moment, but it is interesting that
you already had some sense that you wanted to be
that kind of player for your own particular team as
you pursued you know, a lot of sports for you

(10:55):
were growing up, when did you realize you were good
and not just good, but like the type of good
that could be special.

Speaker 6 (11:02):
I don't know if I ever stopped to kind of
realize I was good. I just always knew I wanted
to be good. And so when people would put limitations
on what I was doing, and by limitations, sometimes it
was a compliment.

Speaker 5 (11:16):
Like sometimes people would come.

Speaker 6 (11:17):
To me and be like, you could be the best
soccer player on the team, and I'd be like looking at.

Speaker 5 (11:22):
It, like I don't want to be the best soccer
player on the team.

Speaker 6 (11:24):
I want to be the best in the state, or
I want to be like, you know whatever. And so
I would say my brother's journey where he was going
through college and he got drafted in nineteen ninety seven,
that kind of opened my eyes to like basketball being
a vehicle of seeing the world but also being able
to experience, you know, winning on a big stage and

(11:48):
as a career. And so I would say when I
started realizing I could be good would be around eleven
or twelve years old.

Speaker 2 (11:57):
You know.

Speaker 1 (11:57):
One of the one thing, one of the many things
I love about your book. Let me hold it up
nice and clear so everybody can see it. The can't
do mindset is that you. I mean, I think anybody
who's watched you for any stretch of time knows that
you're very competitive. But getting the insight it sugges how
competitive you are was really fascinating. And you mentioned like
once you figured out, like, hey, this is what I

(12:18):
want to do that and everybody might have had their expectations,
but yours were different. It reminds me of that part
where you wrote about what it means to have Molly
goals and Molly expectations. And Molly was, of course somebody
that you played soccer with correct not seemingly no shade
to Molly wherever she is not very good and you know,

(12:38):
finally got to score a goal as you were playing soccer,
and you know your dad quick very quickly taught you
the lessons like, yeah, other people going to have certain goals,
but your goals are way higher than that.

Speaker 2 (12:52):
Now that you're in retirement and you've.

Speaker 1 (12:54):
Accomplished all these things, good lord, you have won at
every single level. How have you been able to keep
the Malli goals versus the Mally expectations in retirement?

Speaker 6 (13:05):
What I did and realize from a young age of
what my parents were doing was they were building my mindset.
And I think a mindset is something that you can
shift no matter what you're trying to accomplish. And Mollie
Goals wasn't just for soccer, Like there are some things, yes,
you do, you know in your spare time, art, or

(13:29):
you do for fun or whatever. But something that you're
deciding to do and you want to be great in, like,
there's a certain mindset and expectation that has to go
into it. And it's doing the little things. It's you know,
obviously relinquishing the results and falling in love with the process.
And I talk about that all the time throughout the book.
Is my parents were building that. So whether it was school,

(13:50):
the expectations were, was it my best? Did I do
everything possible to succeed? And because of that, I think
now that the ball isn't bouncing, that mindset doesn't change.

Speaker 5 (14:04):
Like I want to be in the rooms.

Speaker 6 (14:07):
Where there were people that look like us in those rooms,
like I want to be sometimes the only and you know,
basically go through the doors that others fought to walk through,
Like I don't know, it's just a it's a it's
not a shift that you can do when you're doing
one thing or another. I think it's something that just
is over time, it's over everything, and I'm just grateful

(14:28):
for my parents and my environment that I grew up in.

Speaker 1 (14:31):
So now that you're at the stage where you're you know,
you're retired.

Speaker 2 (14:35):
What does it just been two years?

Speaker 5 (14:37):
It's been a year year?

Speaker 6 (14:38):
Crazy? Okay, but yeah, it's only been a year. This
is the second year.

Speaker 2 (14:41):
This is the second year.

Speaker 1 (14:42):
So now to some degree we're a little bit in
the Canvas Parker celebration and reflection mode of your career.
And you know, a lot of people here we're in
Los Angeles, were so excited to see that the Sparks
are retiring your jersey. And in this book you really
lay out a lot of the growing pains that you

(15:04):
and they both had together. So how does it feel,
knowing everything you've been through with this organization to have
your jersey be retired here?

Speaker 6 (15:15):
Well, that's family, right, like we all have family that
you go through the ups and downs, the highs and lows.
I think your most authentic self, good or bad, with
the people that you love and respect. And when I
put on that La Sparks jersey, I never anticipated wearing
another one, and I think it was a difficult process

(15:38):
to decide to go back home to Chicago and to
leave an organization that essentially raised me. I mean, I
was twenty two years young when I got here, hadn't
even had Leila yet, and she grew up in La
La is home, and so to be able to come
back now, it's full circle to.

Speaker 2 (15:58):
It.

Speaker 6 (15:59):
Never it never changed. La was always home. The Sparks
were always home.

Speaker 5 (16:04):
You know.

Speaker 6 (16:04):
If I were to close my eyes and envision myself
in a jersey, it would be an La Sparks jersey.
It would be a number three. And I don't know,
I just think that it's super special for me. Every
day I would look up in those rafters and obviously
at first I would see those championships and that's where
that's the banner and.

Speaker 5 (16:23):
Where I wanted to hang first.

Speaker 6 (16:24):
And now to kind of just look up there and
see the Kareem's and the Lisa Leslie's and go Lee
pile Gasol and the Kobe Bryant, I mean, just Shaquille O'Neal,
and to know that like my jersey's going to be
next to them, I think it's it's surreal, and it
was definitely something that you know, you you hope for

(16:45):
and you wish for. But to now have this moment,
I mean, time flies.

Speaker 5 (16:48):
It's nuts.

Speaker 1 (16:50):
They say time does heal, though, and obviously there had
to be some healing that took place on your end.
So what I guess, Finn or fences had to be
mended for this to happen.

Speaker 6 (17:04):
I've always been extremely close with the ownership. I mean,
Eric Hollman has been so influential and not only my
basketball career and winning a championship in twenty sixteen, but
on the business front, like he was the first person

(17:24):
that really talked to me about business and investments and
gave me advice and all of those things. And so
I don't think that that relationship changed. I think there
was some hurt there that I would leave. But at
some point, and throughout the book, I have to find

(17:46):
I have to try to make myself happy, and at
that point in time, I felt like I could not
be at my best here, And just in terms of
the alignment with coaching with the general manager, you know,
when you wake up and you're fighting every single day
and I am obsessed with basketball, I would challenge anybody

(18:07):
to love the game more than I do. And I
would wake up every day and not want to go
to practice and not want to go to play on
the road, and it just became I felt like I
was fighting, you know, myself, I was fighting the organization
and I just needed a change. And I think over time,
the Sparks have understood that, and you know, we have

(18:29):
continued to connect and I wish the organization nothing but
the best. And now that the years over where I
was in mourning from retirement, I'm I want to go
to some games and I want to watch and you know,
and and and support an organization that has been near
and dear to my heart.

Speaker 1 (18:47):
But nevertheless, though I wonder, did you go through, you know,
moments where you thought this was probably not going to
be possible.

Speaker 6 (18:57):
One hundred per yeah, a hundred. I went through moments
like that. But at the end of the day, I
think we're always working towards what's right. And I think
there are so many situations on the men's side where
people don't finish their career where they started. It's very
few people that finish a long career where they started,

(19:22):
but they are still going to be in the raptors,
and I think it definitely takes an emotional toll on
the organization, on myself in that we envisioned. You know,
I'm hanging up my sneakers and you know, walking off
the court for the last time in a Sparks Jersey.
But sometimes your plans don't always line up with what

(19:44):
the reality is. And I think what was best for
us both was the separation. And now I think it's
going to be beautiful, and you know, I have hope
to have a relationship with the Sparks for a very, very,
very long time.

Speaker 1 (19:58):
In the book I would describe this, I would put
this book in the category of radical transparency. And a
lot of times people who have your stature, who accomplish
what you've accomplished, they write a book and they don't
tell the truth like you told the truth. And I
didn't think you told the truth in a hurtful or
salacious way, but you were very accountable for your role

(20:19):
in whatever situation you talked about, personal or professional. I'm wondering, though,
because you know, you compare the Sparks relationship to like
being like family, right. I know I went through this
with my memoir. There were some people in my family
who were not happy with what I wrote. Were you
at all concerned, given how candidate you were with the

(20:41):
situation with former general manager Penny Toler with Derek Fisher,
who is your coach, were you concerned at all that
maybe you shouldn't be this transparent about that situation.

Speaker 6 (20:54):
My intention going into writing this book was that I
didn't want to tell a story that was no mine
to tell, and by that I mean I don't want
to tell for gossip. There was a reason in every
single detail and every single thing I told in this book,
and I say that and it had a hand in
who I became, who I didn't want to be. And

(21:18):
I feel like I took responsibility for a lot of
the relationships conversations, what I should have done differently. However,
those are huge parts in my life, and I think
there are issues that people deal with on a daily
basis in the business world, in relationships at home, in

(21:41):
coworkers that you don't get along with, and so I
think it was all relevant and why I shared it
the intention to really be truthful, be transparent, but not
in like a gossip like, let me tell you this
extra information that doesn't need to be told Penny told her,
and I did not get on. We still don't. I
have not spoken to her. I don't wish to, and

(22:05):
I think that that's okay. I think I I have
moved past that point in life. But at some point
you have to look in your mirror and say, like,
I'm not crazy. And I laid my head down on
my pillow every single night knowing, yes, there are things
that could have been better. But where I'm at right now,
I'm going to take that lesson and make sure that

(22:27):
I apply it to other situations. And with that being said,
I don't ever want to be a part of a
culture in which people talk to each other like that.

Speaker 2 (22:39):
Yeah, I have to say that was very eye opening.

Speaker 6 (22:42):
I just I never want to be a part of
a situation and I will not stand there and allow.

Speaker 5 (22:46):
Somebody else to do that to others.

Speaker 6 (22:49):
It's just not and and it's crazy because we always
look from the outside end and say if I was
I would never allow that, or like that would never
be and then you're in it and you're like, oh wow,
so like I've let this go for this many years now,
people are telling me this is crazy and I don't
even I don't even see it crazy, you know.

Speaker 5 (23:10):
So I think it was a little bit of like.

Speaker 6 (23:15):
I use parenting as an example of, like I tell
my daughter, you are never letting anybody disrespect you, You
never do all this stuff, and then you're doing it.
And so that's kind of what I came to. I'll
never be in a situation like that ever, ever, ever, again,
And I think the story needed to be told.

Speaker 1 (23:34):
I mean, I honestly I had never you know, we
hear about all especially as sports journalists, that you hear
about all manners of situations.

Speaker 2 (23:41):
I can say across my multi.

Speaker 1 (23:43):
Decade career, I'd never heard of a team executive coming
into a locker room taking off on players, dropping all
kinds of expletives and all that kind of stuff.

Speaker 2 (23:54):
And I just was like, is this That was like,
I know, this is very unusual for that. And you know,
even with if you think about it.

Speaker 1 (24:05):
You actually handled that way better than a lot of
athletes in your position would have. So when you reflect
on it, like you just said, you'll never be in
that situation, are you at peace with how you handle it.

Speaker 6 (24:21):
I was always taught as a kid, just no, but
I was always taught as a kid to take a
deep breath before, Like, as much as you can separate
a situation from your emotions, the better your reaction is
going to be. Now, could I have gone off and
exploded and went crazy.

Speaker 2 (24:39):
And it would have been well within your right, and it probably.

Speaker 6 (24:40):
Would have been well within my right, But it's not
who I am. That's not a reflection of what I
want to be a part of I think all in all,
like the situation worked out the way it should have.
I think I was hurt because, you know, sometimes when
you're going through something, you need some other advocates.

Speaker 5 (25:03):
And the same thing with Derek Fisher.

Speaker 6 (25:06):
I didn't go off in the locker room afterwards, you know,
And I think to some extent, like the questions were
kind of softballs to him after the game in which
we got swept by the Connecticut Son but all that
was going on at the same time, you know.

Speaker 5 (25:22):
And so.

Speaker 6 (25:24):
One of the biggest arguments Chelsea Gray and I ever
got into was like, I would never let somebody do
that to you. I know you're young, I know you're
you know you're new, but I would never sit there
and be silent if somebody were to do that to
you or speak to you in that way or whatever.
And I mean, she's one of my best friends to
this day, and I think we grew closer and I'm

(25:48):
proud of the way that she is now because I
think she went through that situation. So all in all,
I think that we're all where we're supposed to be.
And I'm by all, I mean all of us are
where we're supposed to be, right, all of us are
where we are supposed to be.

Speaker 2 (26:05):
You can read that one pretty clearly. Everybody.

Speaker 1 (26:08):
Now, you know, everybody knows you're going to Chicago you
win this championship, and I am told that they will
also be retiring your jersey as well, two professional teams
retiring your jersey. LA sort of became home professionally, and
you know, personally, Chicago is home. What is that like

(26:29):
for you to have Chicago also be retiring your jersey?

Speaker 5 (26:34):
It's surreal.

Speaker 6 (26:36):
I think that if I were to write a story
of being able to have people in Chicagoland see me
first pick up a basketball for the first time, and
then win a championship in front of those very people,
I mean I would have told you you were crazy.

Speaker 5 (26:55):
But because of that, I.

Speaker 6 (26:57):
Think I felt the moment, like I felt the impurtance
of it, and we had like a perfect group. I
mean Cullia Copper, I couldn't be more proud of like
who she became in that process. I mean slew Alley
just I mean across the board. It was just a
fun environment to be to win in, I would say.

(27:19):
And it wasn't easy. It was like we were sixteen
and sixteen. I like one hundred rolled my ankle to
start the season. We lost seven in a row. Then
you know, we come back, we kind of get it together.
Like it wasn't it was this season. But I think
the events of the past prepared me to be able

(27:40):
to be in those situations and not run from the
tough conversations and not run from the fact that, like
you have to be a leader not when things are
going great, but when things are falling to pieces.

Speaker 5 (27:51):
And so I think I'm.

Speaker 6 (27:52):
Most proud that my jersey's going in the rafter because
I know all of the stuff that you know, had
to happen for for that to happen, if that makes sense.

Speaker 1 (28:04):
Now, Typically when I'm interviewing somebody like you who's had
such a story career, you know, I try to remove
myself from it because people want to hear from you
that they don't give a shit about how I feel.
But one thing I personally want to definitely ask you about,
and you talked a little bit about it in the
book because I often refer to this happening. I believe
your rookie year. You know, I'm from Detroit. So when

(28:26):
you got into it with the shot, I was like,
did they just.

Speaker 2 (28:29):
Try to kill o Kyness?

Speaker 5 (28:30):
Mark Many?

Speaker 1 (28:32):
Yeah, Pierson, Oh my gosh, what happened? Like I need
to hear it because I of course I read it.
I was watching it when it happened.

Speaker 6 (28:42):
You know what's so crazy is the fact that I'm
one that like and this was what was so difficult
about Like USA basketball was like, when we are competitors
and you are not on my team, I don't like
you like to he he and ha ha and all
this stuff. Now, mind you. Michael Cooper was one of
my favorite coaches, right, he didn't like Bill Lambier.

Speaker 5 (29:05):
So guess what was that? Just ob I don't like
billym Beer.

Speaker 6 (29:08):
Yeah, like the Lakers Detroit bad Boys, he's trying to
hurt people.

Speaker 5 (29:12):
I watched basketball in the nineties.

Speaker 6 (29:14):
I got hyped up with Michael Cooper, so like we
did not like each other, the head coaches didn't like
each other.

Speaker 5 (29:19):
Lisa's like that.

Speaker 6 (29:20):
Lisa Leslie's like that, like we just you know, Cheryl
Ford and Tweety.

Speaker 5 (29:25):
Tweety actually was my teammate overseas.

Speaker 6 (29:26):
I did like her, but you know, you talk about
Planette Pearson and all that, and that had been I
mean the game, the whole game, it was just physical
and the refs didn't get in under control and it
was just honestly building. And I remember being at the
free throw line and Lisa Leslie looked at me and
was like being your knees and Planette came in and

(29:47):
then it was kind of like, you know, you're not
gonna punk me, so I kind of, you know, like
kind of whipped around or whatever and went to go
get on top. I got a little licking, and then
Tweety Nolan, who is strong younger than strong, you know,
she kind of pushed me this side a little bit.

Speaker 5 (30:04):
But what's so funny is that Check.

Speaker 6 (30:07):
I think it was like after like Fika and like
everything that was taken out of Check. I really after
the suspension and the fine and all I think my
check was like twelve dollars and seven cents or something crazy.
To this day, I wish I would have taken a picture,
but you know, it was like social media wasn't like that,
but yeah, it was like something crazy, like yeah, so anyway,

(30:28):
got fine, got you know all that.

Speaker 2 (30:32):
And any was there any lingering beef after that?

Speaker 3 (30:35):
Oh?

Speaker 6 (30:37):
I thought I was Bill Lambier myself until I think
it was like WBA All Star when they hosted it,
him and I still were kind of just like looking
at each other crazy.

Speaker 2 (30:48):
You know.

Speaker 6 (30:49):
It's something that I think as competitors you can't turn
on and turn off. And yeah, like if you were
in the other jersey and I'm with them and they
don't like you, guess what, I don't like you either.

Speaker 1 (31:02):
So just as part of you, how do you giving
what your experience was like as a rookie. I'm sure
obviously watching Caitlin Clark you heard a lot of people saying, oh,
just being targeted, Oh, they're being too rough with it,
all these things.

Speaker 2 (31:15):
I'm sure you had to be laughing your ass off,
like y'all want to see targeted?

Speaker 1 (31:19):
Literally, show me what and it wasn't even targeted. It
was just competitiveness. I say all that to say is that,
you know, great growth in the WNBA and everything like that,
But it still feels like people haven't wrapped their minds
around the fact that women in this league compete just
as hard, if not harder than men. Like there's still

(31:40):
a lot of people who have not been able to
understand or cannot.

Speaker 2 (31:45):
Lose the stereotypes about how women compete.

Speaker 6 (31:50):
When you are a generational talent, and I say that
in you know, Diane and A Maya, myself, Brianna Stuart,
Kaylen Clark, Asia Wilson, you're gonna You're gonna experience the physicality,

(32:11):
Like the scouting report is to stop you and a
lot of it is to be physical.

Speaker 5 (32:19):
Do you take a couple extra licks from people? Yeah? Like,
was I the rookie coming in and got shot?

Speaker 6 (32:25):
You know, different shots taken at me or hard fouls
or oh yeah, for sure, that's a part of the game.
I think the problem is now it's a it's a
balancing act act of society and the expectations of women
versus what is necessary in sports. And for so long
they were conflicting in that women in society were supposed

(32:48):
to be strong, but not too strong where you know,
like your muscles. Like I remember not wanting to go
up and wait in college power clinging because I'm like, oh,
my shoulders in the dress are looking kind of muscular,
and now I'm like, you know what, I'm a bench, Like,
who cares You're gonna see my muscles. So I think
it's a different generation of players that are willing to

(33:12):
take on society's problems with women head on. And as
a result, I think now we're seeing social media explode
and more followers wanting to follow women because we are
so dynamic and what we can do on and off
the floor. But yeah, I think that we still are
gonna have We're gonna have problems because of those expectations.

Speaker 5 (33:35):
It's like be competitive. I mean, love and Basketball.

Speaker 6 (33:38):
I talk about it in the book like Love and Basketball,
Monika writes hot head, Quincy's over here, like, you know,
acting this way and it's fine. I've seen the double
standards in live and in color as well as portrayed
in movies. I mean, look at the sports movies for women.
It's ridiculous. You know, it's always got to be we
gotta have a love interest. We got to like, you know,

(34:00):
what is it the base, the Twins, the Twins movie,
Oh my gosh, what's the name of it?

Speaker 5 (34:05):
Double time or whatever?

Speaker 2 (34:07):
I know what you're doing about you.

Speaker 6 (34:08):
Time she pump fis and travels the last go ahead
shot like it's embarrassing. So it's just like, you know,
we don't have the remember the Titans and all that
stuff to portray what being a female athlete is, and
so we have to fight the stereotypes of society.

Speaker 5 (34:23):
But also we have to stay true of like we're
just hoopers.

Speaker 6 (34:26):
We're just we just want to play sports and go
out there and and not be critiqued and judged for
everything else.

Speaker 1 (34:34):
Yeah, because the conversations around Angel Rees and Kitlin Clark,
they can It's supposed to be a fun rivalry, but
it has gotten very top toxic in a in a
lot of ways. But looking at Angel Rees, because you,
I mean, granted you weren't like a traditional big because
you were among the sort of new wave of positionless basketball,

(34:56):
but looking at her game, let's just have a basketball
conversation about angel If you were her coach, what would
you tell her to focus on?

Speaker 6 (35:05):
Well, for me, first and foremost, I think that she
has the correct coach for her. Tyler marsh is one
of the best coaches I have ever played for. He
was an assistant coach in Vegas. He's the most knowledgeable person.
He's a great skill developer. I mean, he almost single
handedly turned Jackie Young's shot into what it is. And

(35:27):
I say that in I think she's in a great situation.

Speaker 5 (35:30):
For me.

Speaker 6 (35:31):
The improvement comes from figuring out what you're going to
be great at, and we already know she's going to
be a great rebounder. But I think it's really mastering
like what spots. A lot of people come in and
try to get better at everything. I'm a shoot threes
and I'm gonna come down and do this, this and this,
but you forget that. It really is like the little
tiny things, like you know, you know when you're guarding

(35:55):
Chelsea Gray, she's gonna get to her spot on that
right elbow. That's the spot that she's going to try
to get to and she's going to be successful seventy
percent out of one hundred going to that spot. My
thing is what is Angel Reese's spot and what is
her go to and then you master that And from

(36:15):
that standpoint, I think tuning out the noise. I think
in terms of basketball IQ we've even talked about her
on the defensive end, I think she could be a
problem just with her length, activity, athleticism. So I just
think that it's like comparing apples and oranges Cayveen Kart
and Angel Reese.

Speaker 5 (36:31):
It's like, what are we doing?

Speaker 6 (36:32):
At least they they like doing the like Magic and
the Bird comparison, Well, they played similar positions, like Bird
one a point guard, but he played the guard position.
Like they at least kind of match up this like
what are we doing? So I just I'm not falling
into that. I'm not into the comparison. I think that
there are a number of things that Angel can improve

(36:55):
on will improve on in the situation she's in. And
I think Kaylen Clark has done that even in her
first year in terms of, you know, being able to
be that floor general. Her and Aliah Boston's connection has
really improved. And I think the thing about Caitlyn, yes
she can shoot from the logo, but she makes her
team better. And so I think just in terms for her,
it's going to be moving. What are you doing without

(37:16):
the ball in your hands? And I think it's going
to be taking care of the ball for her those
two things.

Speaker 1 (37:21):
Yeah, because she always thought to her as much as
she was now for the logo, the reason all that
it's her passing control the game just very just freakish
floor vision. So once's recording this, she's obviously injured, so
it'll be interesting to see what she's like when she's
come when she comes back, because I know she had
that ten turnover game.

Speaker 5 (37:42):
Yeah, Yeah, that's like a learning.

Speaker 6 (37:44):
I think all of us young turn the ball over,
and especially when you're the focal point of the entire defense,
you know you're going to have more turnovers, You're going
to have more live ball situations, and the competitive element
of you you do tend to take chances early on,
and you learn that sometimes it might be a highlight,
but seven out of ten times it's probably gonna be

(38:06):
a turnover. And I had to learn that because I
was you know, some of the biggest things with Pat
was like offensive rebounding and me turning the ball over.

Speaker 5 (38:13):
So those are the two things. I get it.

Speaker 1 (38:15):
You had some really sharp observations in your book about
the WNBA and where they are You see them now,
you see the explosion in growth and they're experiencing something
very unprecedented. What do you think the WNBA has gotten
right as they try to really capitalize on this moment

(38:37):
right now.

Speaker 6 (38:39):
Well, I think that the WNBA, in terms of their
star players, like really focusing on the stars, because in
the NBA, that's what it is. I mean, if we're
going to compare, let's compare and really compare something that
we can actually apply in our game. And I think
now in terms of the notoriety and the attention, it's

(39:03):
matching up with what the WBA needs to do in
terms of how you are focusing on the matchups and
the rivalries. And I say that not just in Caitlin
Clark and Angel Rees. I say that in Asia Wilson
and Brianna Stewart to the best to ever play the
game of basketball, focusing on that New York Aces rivalry,
making sure that those games are lined up with, you know,

(39:25):
times where people are going to have eyeballs. And for
a long time, I feel like the Stars came to
the league and then the league kind of diminished the
light a little bit and didn't allow fans to really
the biggest thing I think the WBA has gotten right
right now is taking the stars back to where they
played in college. I didn't understand why we didn't go

(39:45):
back to Knoxville for a preseason game. And, to be
honest with you, similar to way the NBA does preseason
games or regular season games in other countries, the WBA
should do games in you know, at Notre Dame as
a regular season game. But I think that you know,
there are a number of things that the WNBAS has

(40:06):
changed and are doing right as a result of the
number of eyeballs. I hate to say the Twitter fingers
that are able to make comments and hold the wa accountable.

Speaker 5 (40:16):
But where I'd like to see it go is I
would like it.

Speaker 6 (40:19):
To become player first, and I think it's becoming that
we look at the NBA. Adam Silver has a conversation
Chris Paul Lebron James constantly about any changes they are
thinking about making anything. Adam Silver texts me when I
got the Amazon job. He texts me when I had
my son.

Speaker 3 (40:39):
You know.

Speaker 6 (40:39):
So, I think that there's a level of player first mentality.
Relationships matter because when you all have a common goal
and you all are on the same page, it's just
going to work. And so I think we just all
have to get on the same page with front office management,
you know, all that down to the players.

Speaker 2 (40:57):
Since you brought up player first.

Speaker 1 (40:59):
One of the things that people will probably find very
startling reading your book is one of your main motivations
while you spent that last year in Las Vegas is
because of their facilities and because Mark Davis is definitely
one of the more progressive, if not the most progressive
owner in the WNBA. The aces have their own facilities,

(41:21):
and it was to me this is where the WNBA
should be absolutely ashamed. This is the first time in
your professional career where you had your own locker.

Speaker 2 (41:31):
That is crazy.

Speaker 1 (41:34):
So you mentioned like some of the areas with player
or care that they could improve on.

Speaker 2 (41:40):
Were some of these missteps? I think they have it now.

Speaker 1 (41:43):
They have maternity, They do have paymentniality now, I think right,
But they didn't have it when you were in the league.
Was this a matter of the WNBA a lack of
want to or not being able to?

Speaker 6 (41:58):
It's both, but I think the lack of want to
made it, not made them not be able to, if
that makes sense. And that scared money doesn't make money.
You need money to turn things around. I mean, it's
an investment, that's what it is. And for such a

(42:20):
long time, I think they undervalue the importance of investing
in players and the player experience. I talk about this
quite a bit in the book about practice facilities matter.
You know, you talk about having food after practice that matters.
You talk about not having to wake up at six
am to fly out of a city after playing till
ten pm, finding something to eat after the game, getting

(42:43):
two hours of sleep, then coming back, then going straight
to the practice facility, practicing, then going home, going to sleep,
and then getting ready for a game the next day.
But having to like figure out when practice is because
you don't, you're not able to control it. So you
just have to take what you can get. And with
that being said, I mean we said a long time ago,
yes the WBA is great.

Speaker 5 (43:04):
Yes, it's you can support. I hate that word. It's
not a charity.

Speaker 6 (43:08):
So if you're in this just because it feels good
and whatever, I think the shift came when it became
a business and when business minded people bought into it.
I talk about Clara Wusai, and I talk about Mark Davis,
and you look at the similarities of that Johnny Buss,
Doctor Buss, and you look at the similarities between Red

(43:29):
Auerbach at Boston. He wanted what he had and I
think it was similar the New York Liberty and Vegas.
I think they made the league better because they had
these non negotiables.

Speaker 5 (43:41):
Obviously it helps to have.

Speaker 6 (43:42):
Billionaires and not millionaires, but at the same time, they
invested in the things that needed to invest they needed
to invest in, and guess.

Speaker 5 (43:49):
What then, now they're leading the league in attendance. It's
no surprise.

Speaker 6 (43:54):
And so I think we were able in the WNBA
to get billionaires in, but business might people that looked
at it as a business and wanted to invest in
things that would allow it to grow.

Speaker 1 (44:06):
Yeah, because sometimes I tend to think it's the just
didn't want to, which they tend to do with a
lot of women's sports.

Speaker 2 (44:13):
You know.

Speaker 1 (44:13):
Obviously, wasn't that long ago, a couple of years ago
when the NCAA got embarrassed about the weight room situation
between what the women's players had in the bubble in
the tournament versus what the men's players had, and the
women they have like a half a billion dollar contract
right with the ESPN, so they could have given them
a weight room.

Speaker 2 (44:34):
They just didn't want to.

Speaker 1 (44:37):
And that, to me is the insulting part is that
a lot of the things that we're seeing the WNBA, unfortunately,
it feels like they're still in that mindset that they
have to be shamed into it as.

Speaker 2 (44:48):
Opposed to being proactive.

Speaker 1 (44:50):
Luckily, now there are more owners, I think more new
owners that are in the league, so it's making the
situation a little better.

Speaker 6 (44:56):
But the limitations that society has continuously on women, it's
been on full display forever. I mean, just think about
where women's tennis is now if not for Billie Jean
King deciding like this is bullshit, We're not going to
just take this, you know, I mean you look at
down the line. I mean, it's always been taken advantage of.

(45:18):
But I think social media and NIL changed the game
because now numbers don't lie check the scoreboard. We can
look at the insights and the clicks and the purchases
based off of what you're seeing on social media. And
now you can't say that women can't sell and can't
draw and can't get eyeballs. And so it's one of
those things where it's now what I'm fearful of is

(45:40):
the way to take women's sports to the next level
is to have women that have been involved and know
it be a part of that. So now if everybody
in their mama wants to buy a team, and you're
giving it to everybody and their mama, that's lining up
because it's the hot thing. I don't know if it's
going to be successful, and I would like to see

(46:01):
more women at the forefront of leading these organizations and
leading these teams to be successful because we know what
we came from. You know, we know that it's not
one of those things where you just roll the ball
out and it's the same in the same market of
an NBA team and a WNBA team, you know, and
I do think that it is important for us to

(46:21):
stand on our own two feet, and WSL has done that.

Speaker 5 (46:24):
They're not affiliated with MLS.

Speaker 6 (46:26):
I think it has helped the WNBA to be affiliated
with the NBA one hundred percent. But at this point,
what part of it is going to continue to be
a benefit? You know, Like you look at the TV contracts.
You know, we're signing alongside the NBA, but there's only
so many great prime spots that we can really fight

(46:47):
for and there's only so much we can really do
on our end. If you're still going to the meeting
with the NBA, you know what I mean. So it's
just there are so many other things I'd like to
see more WNBA teams and non NBA markets, you know,
I think that's important to establish its own fan base.
And it's not a copy and copy and paste situation.

(47:10):
But I could go on on, but I think the
WNBA is in.

Speaker 5 (47:14):
A great place.

Speaker 6 (47:15):
I would like to see, yes, more teams, but there
are very there's a handful of players that can carry
franchises and B one A and one B options.

Speaker 1 (47:26):
I actually don't finish that thought because I do have
to take a quick break, and I because that's exactly
what I what I want to ask you about is expansion,
because you had some very pointed comments about that in
your book. But we'll all take a very quick break
and we'll be right back with more with Candae Parker.

(47:51):
All right, before we took a break, you mentioned expansion,
and as I said, in your book, you were in
favor of adding more roster spots before adding more teams.
But obviously they have chosen. You know, you got a
team in San Francisco. Now Toronto's coming Portland as well,

(48:13):
and there are rumors there will be more. I don't
know what. Well, why do you think that the roster
spots should come before the expansion.

Speaker 6 (48:25):
I think there are a handful of players in the
league that can carry a team, and by carrying a team,
it is winning. Like I always used to say this,
like somebody on a team has to score twenty and
somebody on a team has to get ten rebounds, right,
But what follows that is what really determines the value

(48:46):
of the twenty and ten. It's a W or an L.
So if you get in twenty and ten and you're
taking l's consistently, I think that you know, obviously sometimes
you're young, and it's the pieces around you. But I
think there are a handful of handful of players in
this league that can be that one option consistently on

(49:08):
a nightly basis. And by expanding now you're taking from
an already handful of a group and putting them in
situations that I think stretches thin. I think it's the
development of players. You're seeing the investment of the development
of players in Vegas.

Speaker 5 (49:27):
Jackie Young was not.

Speaker 6 (49:28):
This great her rookie year, but because of the investment
by Vegas to grow her and expand her. I mean,
the NBA has an entire league based off of development,
and by not having thirteen or fourteen or fifteen players
on a roster, you're I think stunning the growth of

(49:50):
what players that could be contributors could be. Look at
Alex Caruso. Can you imagine like in the WBA Alex
Cruzo would have been gone? He would he would I
had a nine to five, there's no way. But because
of his development, he's been able to be a main
contributor on a championship team and on another one possibly.

(50:10):
And so with that being said, I think it's we
owe it to the eleventh, twelve, thirteen player on the
team to be able to have a chance to grow
and not be fighting for your life every single year.
And so I think that with the expanded roster spot
you're able to then really truly lean into developing your roster.

Speaker 1 (50:31):
I'm a pivot a little bit and talk about your
family life. You have three kids, a girl, hey, two boys,
a girl. I know right, they are keeping you quite busy.
And you talked a lot about how that going through
that motherhood Jennery journey with your daughter, who's your oldest
With lay I marveled at reading all the things that

(50:54):
you went through and playing overseas, playing in the WNBA,
like managing all that as a young mother. How often
or how much do you look back at that and say,
I can't believe I actually got through that.

Speaker 6 (51:06):
I didn't realize all that was going on with motherhood,
that didn't have anything to do with motherhood until my
wife and I had our son and there was this
like calm where like I woke up in the morning
and made coffee and we walked, and we took the
dogs for a walk, and we went to the park
and whatever.

Speaker 5 (51:27):
Like I didn't really have that with Layla.

Speaker 6 (51:30):
And when you talk to other mothers of like mastitis
and it's like, oh, you had mass titis, and I'm like, yeah,
you know.

Speaker 5 (51:38):
It's where your your.

Speaker 6 (51:41):
Milk duck gets infected and you sometimes get or stocks
stopped up and you get a fever sometimes and you'd
start feeling terrible. Well, I was in Russia playing USA
basketball when I got messitis, and I had one hundred
and three fever and was like trying to figure it
out overseas, like how do I get meds?

Speaker 5 (51:58):
How do I like?

Speaker 6 (51:59):
So my my vision of like all these motherhood things
is so different because it was like the balancing act
of like, Okay, well I can't play the day because
I have one hundred and three fever, but tomorrow, hopefully
my mass titus is better and I can suit up
for the you know, the USA team. So it's just
I look back and I'm like, one, I'm super grateful

(52:21):
for the baby and who Leila is because she is
the calmest, most patient, most like mommy. She's like pro
mommy and everything I do. I messed up a couple
of times, like didn't know, you know, what's a feeder
for first food. She's still pro mommy, like you know,
sometimes she's taken a nap on the side of the court,

(52:41):
she's still pro mommy.

Speaker 5 (52:42):
Like I'm grateful for her.

Speaker 6 (52:44):
But I also look and I say, what if I
would have done it differently during that time, you know,
because it's such a special moment. I wouldn't have I
would do it over again one hundred times. But I
just think back to like, if you are a mom
and you don't want to do that, you should have
that choice, and it's difficult for me because I do

(53:07):
think I played a part in making strength be.

Speaker 5 (53:12):
Coming back in fifty three days.

Speaker 6 (53:14):
Which is nursing nursing her at halftime, Like I made
that strength.

Speaker 5 (53:18):
And so then what's the alternative of weakness?

Speaker 6 (53:20):
Like, no, it's not taking, like weakness is not taking
is not taking maternity leave, like take the mattorney leave,
Like take your time, do what fits for you. And
I think Layla has like she's made me grow up
and we've grown up together. I've made mistakes, missteps, but
I'm super grateful to be able to have her throughout

(53:42):
my career.

Speaker 1 (53:43):
Yeah, as I mentioned in the first half of this podcast,
like one thing that separates your book I think from
others is like the depth of honesty that's there. And
you were extremely honest and forthright about what happened in
your in your first marriage and even the process of
coming out now in your second marriage. I want to
ask you about that process because you were married for

(54:05):
two years before you actually came out, So what was
that navigating that part of your life, like, because you've
been through it before where your personal life becomes the headline,
and then the second time around, here you are, you're
coming out. So there's layers to this. So for you,
what did what did that time in your life feel like?

Speaker 6 (54:29):
As you figured out, I realized I was anxious all
the time.

Speaker 5 (54:34):
And I always tell.

Speaker 6 (54:37):
You, know, my nephews, I'm really close with my nephews,
and I always tell them, like, as an adult, you
should never have to lie, Like that's your telltale sign
as an adult when you're making your own decisions, you're
paying your own bills, you're doing all of these things, like,
you shouldn't.

Speaker 5 (54:51):
Have to like lie.

Speaker 6 (54:54):
And I felt like I was waking up every single
day and like not only lying to everybody else, but
lying to myself and in saying that I was just
going about things because I was private, like no I was.
I wanted to withhold that information because I was scared
of the scrutiny of the perceptions, of the looks that
people would be like almost like disappointed, or you know,

(55:17):
those type of things. And I was super proud of
my family. I was super proud of what I was building,
but I was scared of the way that others would
portray me, or what the comments would look like or
all of those things. And when you're operating from a
place of fear. I feel like it's like you're anxious
every single day. You know, you're anxious when you just

(55:39):
go out to a family dinner and like, you know,
my wife would like fix take something off my face
and it would just be like, okay, who's around.

Speaker 5 (55:47):
It's like, you can't live like that, man, you know.

Speaker 6 (55:49):
And I never wanted my son to be able to
even think that I wasn't proud of his mom or
proud of our family, and that I didn't love her
more than anything. And so with that being said, like
I think it's a process everybody goes through when you
are unsure of what the next step or what the
next phase of life is going to look like. I

(56:10):
never envisioned being with a woman. I'll just be honest,
Like when I close my eyes at night every night,
I was like I need to find my prince charming,
Like it was never a princess Like that never entered
into my mind. But you know, as I learned, sometimes
life gives you things and wrapped into package that you

(56:30):
didn't expect it. And that was just you know, and honestly,
it took me a long time to be okay with myself.
It took Anya a long time to be okay with
the situation, and.

Speaker 5 (56:42):
We had to give grace to others around us to
do that.

Speaker 6 (56:44):
And so I think the timing while as I wish,
I was just like unapologetic and just came out and
was like listen, but we did it at our own
process and at our own speed. And yeah, it seems
like I can't even imagine that was just three years
ago that we didn't know about our family.

Speaker 2 (57:02):
I have to be honest, that does not seem like
the case.

Speaker 1 (57:05):
I mean, it just feels like so much you know
longer than that, but you hit on something important before
you move up and wrap it up.

Speaker 2 (57:14):
Here about how like it took you a while to
accept it.

Speaker 1 (57:16):
I mean, obviously you guys were overseas together, You're playing
and you're growing closer, Like, was there a moment or
maybe a string of moments where you're like, I think
I actually want to be with this person and build
a life with this person.

Speaker 6 (57:31):
One hundred percent I think that there were moments where
that happened.

Speaker 5 (57:36):
I am a nerd, like.

Speaker 6 (57:40):
So I geek out on everything and yeah, like museums,
I will go for six hours to whatever museum. I
was in Memphis a couple of weeks ago covering the NBA.
I was at the you know, I'm always like that,
And it was during those moments I think where.

Speaker 5 (57:56):
I was like, I really really really really love her,
like I.

Speaker 6 (58:00):
Really I don't know what it is, but I just
feel connected to her and her grace and her honesty
and her accountability. My brother said something in our wedding speech,
you know that I hang on too. He's like, cann
this needs somebody that is strong enough to tell her no,
but sensitive and pure enough to be the shoulder that

(58:24):
she will cry on, Like you know what I mean,
Because I'm rough, I'm tough, I'm like, you know, all
these things. But to be able to be vulnerable and
you know, be truthful and honest in every step, I
think that that's valuable as well.

Speaker 5 (58:38):
And so to be.

Speaker 6 (58:39):
Able to have her now I realize, like how much
I want to work on myself, and she does hold
me accountable to those things, and so I think there
were a number of moments where it was like we
were ether at a museum where she would tell me
I was wrong and I'd be like, dang, I am.

Speaker 1 (58:59):
A quick I had some good question for I get
you out of here, so you know everybody knows the
integral role that past some it played in your life.

Speaker 2 (59:08):
Past someone I think she would have been.

Speaker 1 (59:10):
Seventy one, seventy five, actually seventy five, Okay, if pat
were still here, you think she'd still be coaching.

Speaker 5 (59:20):
She's got grand babies now, No way, no way, no way.

Speaker 6 (59:24):
I think Coach would have. I think Coach would have
hung it up and really enjoyed. I think she was
getting to a point in time where, like she wouldn't
have missed Tyler's kids and being a part of their
life and all that. And I think I would have selfishly,
one hundred percent wanted her to be come out here
and you know, spoil our kids as well. I think

(59:47):
coaching was in her blood and a huge part. But
like Coach, never wavered in her who and her what
coaching was what she did that was not who she was.
And as much as she loved basketball and loved impacting
young women's lives, I think she would have loved to
enjoy the fruit of her labor and being able to
have the freedom to like enjoy the people's lives that

(01:00:09):
she impacted.

Speaker 1 (01:00:11):
Because I look at one of your least favorite people,
as you know, are seventy one. So that I was like,
it made me wonder that. All right, I end every
podcast with a messy question. This is what could make
the blogs. Candice's gonna be all over the shape.

Speaker 5 (01:00:24):
Let's do it, let's do it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:24):
All right, here's a messy question. Start bench cut.

Speaker 5 (01:00:28):
Oh gosh, yeah good, that was.

Speaker 2 (01:00:33):
The whole point.

Speaker 1 (01:00:34):
Start bench cut, Shamika holes claw, Tamika catchings, you start
bitch cut.

Speaker 6 (01:00:42):
Well, I am not without them. So I feel like
when you're the blueprint, like if everybody's trying to be you,
then like that you're the best.

Speaker 2 (01:00:59):
Right.

Speaker 6 (01:01:00):
That's why I think Jordan is the goat, because everybody
was trying to recreate what Jordan was. So I say,
Shamika Holstkla was like what Tamika went to Tennessee to be.
I went to Tennessee to be Tamika and Shamikua. So
I'd have to cut myself. Yeah, I have to cut myself.

(01:01:20):
I'd have to cut myself. I'd have to start shamik Will.

Speaker 5 (01:01:24):
I have to start Shamikahlestkla.

Speaker 6 (01:01:26):
I have to I'd have to bench Tamika However, I
think professionally it would be flop flopped. I would have
to bench Shamikua and start Tamika.

Speaker 2 (01:01:37):
So here you're still starting.

Speaker 6 (01:01:41):
I was always trying to be that, So you can't.
How are you cut or how do you cut something
you're trying to be?

Speaker 5 (01:01:48):
Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (01:01:49):
So look at that. Yeah, and that is why you're
the president of Also, good luck on the job with Amazon.
I appreciate, of course, as a broadcaster. It's very few
players who wind up having a broadcasting career. I won't
say it's successful because you want a lot of shit right,
but certainly somebody who has become like one of the

(01:02:11):
best broadcasters that we have out there. It's very hard
to do both. So congratulations to you and everybody out there.
Make sure you get the can do mindset. Buy some books.

Speaker 2 (01:02:20):
Very important.

Speaker 1 (01:02:21):
It's a wonderful book. I only got to a tenth
of my questions. I could have literally talk to you
about this book for two hours. Very well done from
one author to another.

Speaker 2 (01:02:30):
So well.

Speaker 6 (01:02:31):
I respect the hell out of you, and I appreciate
you having me on. I mean, what we're doing in broadcasting.
I think a lot of it was set by you
and your ability to remain true to who you are consistently,
regardless of what the narrative is, what the comments are, whatever,
You've always done that and stay true. And I think

(01:02:52):
that that's the mentality I kind of took on as
a broadcaster, is like, you can't worry about all that
other stuff you got to do.

Speaker 5 (01:02:59):
You appreciate you for that.

Speaker 1 (01:03:00):
And you're able to do that and get and getting
in a lot less trouble than me.

Speaker 5 (01:03:04):
So hey, listen, there's time.

Speaker 2 (01:03:08):
Thank you so much. One more segment to go, coming
up next, The Final Spin.

Speaker 1 (01:03:21):
All right, time for the Final Spin, where I give
you the topic, the Spin, and then the truth.

Speaker 2 (01:03:26):
Today's topic NBA Finals ratings. The Spin.

Speaker 1 (01:03:30):
The NBA is upset, supposedly because the two small market teams,
Indiana and Oklahoma are in the NBA Finals. Now the truth,
the NBA doesn't care no why that check from the
television networks who pay for the rights to broadcast games
has been cash. The networks paid for the rights upright,
So it doesn't matter who is in the finals.

Speaker 2 (01:03:51):
For the NBA.

Speaker 1 (01:03:52):
It's not about who, though, but how long. The longer
the series lasts, the better it is. For these teams
because a longer series means more tickets sold, more concessions purchase,
more jerseys purchase, and a flood of money just built
around the games themselves. Here's what I don't understand about
some of you so called NBA fans.

Speaker 2 (01:04:10):
You complain that the NBA is rigged.

Speaker 1 (01:04:12):
To favorite big market teams like LA New York Boston,
and now that you have two teams who represent a
new era in the NBA from a small market, now
you're complaining about what the ratings might look like. If
you're a basketball fan, you care about matchups and getting
the best possible series. Who gives a shit about the ratings?
Pick a struggle, all right? I love hearing from you all.

(01:04:34):
Really always look forward to your feedback, So make sure
you get at me on social media or email.

Speaker 2 (01:04:39):
I'm at Jamail Hill.

Speaker 1 (01:04:40):
Across all social media platforms, Twitter, Instagram, Fan based, Blue Sky,
and threads, please use the hashtags politics. You also have
the option of emailing me as Politics twenty twenty four
at gmail dot com. You can also veo me if
you have a question, but please make sure it's thirty
seconds or less.

Speaker 2 (01:04:55):
Don't forget to follow and subscribe.

Speaker 1 (01:04:57):
To Politics on iHeart and followspolitics PI on Instagram and TikTok.
Politics is spelled s p O l I t i
c S. A new episode of Politics drops every Thursday
on iHeart Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. This
is politics, where sports and politics don't just mix, They matter.

(01:05:17):
Politics is the production of iHeart Podcasts and The Unbothered Network.
I'm your host Jamel Hill. Executive producer is Taylor Chakoigne.
Lucas Hymen is head of Audio and executive producer. Original
music for Spolitics provided by Kyle Visk from wiz FX