Ep 36: The Politics of Inclusion - Featuring Khalen Saunders

On this week's filibuster, Jemele dives into NBA player Malk Beasley being under federal investigation as part of gambling probe and how the sports leagues alliance with the gambling industry is creating an atmosphere for players to indulge in sports betting. Jemele is then joined by New Orleans Saints defensive tackle Khalen Saunders, who recently made national news for announcing that his annual football camp is inclusive of LGBTQ+ youth. Saunders discusses why it was important for him to let the queer community know they were welcomed, and how he withstood the criticism. Khalen also shares how his brother, Kameron, who is gay, inspired him and what he learned from watching his brother navigate life as a Black gay man. In the Final Spin, Jemele provides some much-needed to context as to why superstar Caitlin Clark finished ninth among guards in the WNBA players’ All-Star voting.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, what's up everybody.

Speaker 2 (00:01):
I'm Jameel Hill and welcome to politics and I heard
podcast and unbothered production.

Speaker 1 (00:07):
Time to get spolitical. Amid all the NBA.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Free agency news, it was easy for the gambling scandal
involving Malie Beasley to get swallowed up in the news cycle.
So let me tell you why you need to be
paying attention to this. The Pistons guard was a great
addition this season for my Pistons. I mean, he finished
second in the sixth Man of the Year voting and
his three hundred and nineteen threes were the most enfranchised

(00:40):
history and second in the league overall. But now Beasley
is under investigation in a federal gambling probe, which is
centered around suspicious gambling activity from the twenty twenty three
to twenty four season when Beasley was with the Milwaukee Bucks. Now,
according to an ESPN report, at least one prominent US
sportsbook detected unusually heavy betting on Beasley statistics beginning around

(01:02):
January twenty twenty four. More specifically, in the ESPN report,
a gambling industry source pointed to a game between the
Bucks and the Trailblazers on January thirty, first twenty twenty four,
when the odds on Beasley recording fewer than two and
a half rebounds moved significantly at sports books before the
game due to a surge of action on the under. However,

(01:24):
in that game, Beasley finished with six rebounds and the
bets that raised an eyebrow lost. But the story has
a lot more complicated layers than this. Multiple reports have
surfaced showing that Beasley is facing significant financial issues. There's
a track record that shows Beasley borrowing money upfront and
not making good on it later. Court records obtained by

(01:46):
the Detroit News showed that Beasley owes a lot of
people money. He was sued by a sports management group
for failing to repay a six hundred and fifty thousand
dollars advance against future marketing revenue from.

Speaker 1 (01:58):
His name, image, and likeness.

Speaker 2 (02:00):
Beasley also was in deep with companies that specialized in
loaning money to professional athletes. A company won a five
point eight million dollar judgment against him when he played
for Minnesota, and last year, Beasley signed a deal with
the Florida company that supplies bridge loans for pro athletes,
with Beasley using his current and future NBA.

Speaker 1 (02:18):
Contracts as collateral.

Speaker 2 (02:20):
Beasley is also being sued for back rent for a
luxury high rise apartment he rented in Detroit.

Speaker 1 (02:25):
He had to pay a.

Speaker 2 (02:26):
Twenty six thousand dollars judgment to a celebrity barber. A
barber I mean where they dipping the clippers in gold?
Was his even blessed by the Pope? I mean for
twenty six g's it should have come with a guarantee
that Beasley was going to drop forty after every new haircut.
He also owed another thirty five grand to his dentist,
who started garnishing his check earlier this year. Them dan

(02:48):
Veneers better have been warned by Jesus.

Speaker 1 (02:51):
Now, if you're wondering.

Speaker 2 (02:52):
How a player who has earned sixty million in his
nine year NBA career can be out here moving like
Russell Red from JKI promoters as Matt bars what's explained,
you'd be surprised how many players end up in financial distress.

Speaker 3 (03:06):
So my deals were three hundred, four hundred and five
hundred thousands, and to be honest with you, at the
end of every summer, I was broke. Because financial literacy
is something that's talked about often now, but you think
late nineties early two thousands, wasn't talked about. We talked
about houses, cars, jewelry, women, everything, but how to save
what we're all working for. So I came from food
stamps and drugs, So I didn't really have any kind

(03:26):
of representation that showed me, you know, Okay, we'll put
this away and save this and do this and that's this.

Speaker 1 (03:31):
Well, Beasley hasn't been charged with anything.

Speaker 2 (03:33):
Beasley situation should be especially concerning because this is what
sports leagues fear. A player experiencing financial issues who possibly
sees gambling as a quick side hustle or becomes a
target for those who want to use his circumstances to
get inside information, or in the worst case scenario, be
pressured to throw games. But in some ways, sports leagues

(03:55):
have only themselves to blame. When the Supreme Court struck
down the Professional and Amateur Sports Protection Act of nineteen
ninety two, which was the federal statute that it restricted
legal betting to primarily Nevada for twenty six years, a
dangerous Pandora's box was opened. There are thirty eight states
plus Washington, DC where some form of sports betting is legal.
That includes thirty states where you can gamble online. In

(04:17):
twenty twenty four, the sports betting industry posted a record
thirteen point seven billion in revenue, a two billion dollar
increase from twenty twenty three. Since the Supreme Court decision,
the amount of money wagered on sports has jumped from
five billion to a staggering one hundred and twenty one billion,
with ninety four percent of the wages placed online. Complicating
matters even more is how every major sports league has

(04:39):
gotten into bed with sports gambling.

Speaker 1 (04:41):
Websites such as FanDuel.

Speaker 2 (04:43):
ESPN, who for a long time shunned any association with gambling,
created ESPN Bet. Now ESPN person at leads promote the
app non stop, do gambling segments on their shows, and
regularly discussed their own wages. The widespread acceptance of gambling
has made it far less taboo, especially among professional athletes.
While sports certainly had high profile gambling scandals prior to

(05:04):
the twenty eighteen Supreme Court ruling, the nineteen ninety Chicago
White Sox and pee rose come to minds. Since gambling
has gone mainstream, we have seen a steady stream of
athletes getting busted from gambling on their own sport. Last year,
the NBA banned the Toronto Raptors John Tate Porter from
the league after an investigation found that he disclosed financial
information to betters, limited his participation in at least one

(05:25):
game while in Toronto, and bet on NBA games while
playing in the G League. In March, the NCAA began
investigating two Fresno State basketball players for participating in daily
fantasy contests based on their own performances. One player, Jalen Weaver,
to ESPN he was dismissed from the team because he
bet fifty dollars he would score more than eleven points
against New Mexico last December.

Speaker 1 (05:47):
We were scored thirteen. Will Alisi Tothio.

Speaker 2 (05:51):
Notre Dame had to suspend its swimming team for a
year because the players set up their own sports book
where they could bet on themselves or on their teammates
performance at meats. They also bet among themselves on the
Super Bowl and March Madness. And if you think this
sounds relatively harmless, realize that NCAA athletes aren't allowed to
gamble on any sports. The scary part is, despite what

(06:13):
happened at Notre Dame, Fresno State and a number of
other schools. The NCAA is currently considering a proposal that
would allow college players to bet on professional sports now
be fully transparent. I have and do bet on sports,
not often, as I live in a state where sports
gambling isn't allowed, and even if it were, I seriously
doubt that it would be something that I would regularly do.

(06:35):
I'm also not a professional athlete with a lot to
gain for insider information or betting on oneself. But there's
a lot of denial going on with sports gambling. Sports
leagues are serving two masters, capitalism and greed. If gambling
is powerful enough to ensnare professional athletes who make millions
of dollars, the lore for civilians is even more powerful.

(06:57):
More people bet on sports than invest in stocks, and
based on what the statistics tell us, sports gambling is
poised to be the tobacco of this generation.

Speaker 1 (07:07):
Bet on it. I'm Jameel Hill, and I approved this message.

Speaker 2 (07:12):
The idea of sports being inclusive shouldn't be a controversial message.
But when my guest today announced that his football camp
was also open to LGBTQ plus youth, it created a firestorm.
But he stood on what he said, and those that
criticized him didn't understand why a heterosexual NFL defensive tackle
who plays for the New Orleans Saints would make sure

(07:33):
that the queer community knew they.

Speaker 1 (07:35):
Were welcome at his camp.

Speaker 2 (07:36):
On this episode, we'll unpack that in so much more
coming up next on Spolitics Colin Saunders.

Speaker 1 (07:51):
All right, Colin on to thank you for joining me.

Speaker 2 (07:53):
I'm going to start this episode as I start every episode,
by asking each guest that appears on Spolotics to name
an athlete or a moment that made you love sports.

Speaker 4 (08:04):
Oh that is that is a question, okay, because wow,
I mean football. I'm thinking of basketball, football, everything, all right,
So I'll say I'll go in my earliest memory because
I was like only four or five, but I do

(08:26):
vaguely remember the RAM Super Bowl, and I don't really
remember watching it all of that, but I remember specifically
I was at my Auntie's house and all the men
in the house was just.

Speaker 5 (08:37):
Like running into each other and high five and you know,
estatic from the wind. So that was kind of I
was like, what is causing all of this?

Speaker 4 (08:48):
Like that's how early on I enjoyed it, because then
you know, going into middle school and you know, when
I actually got to start playing the sport.

Speaker 5 (08:57):
Just I think that I can.

Speaker 4 (09:01):
Okay, I'll revert this to being my favorite player Mike
Vick because that that that was, that was the first
time I was I locked into a schedule. I was like,
when do they play and what times I need to
watch this dude?

Speaker 1 (09:17):
When he was at Virginia Tech.

Speaker 5 (09:18):
No, I'm talking later, yeah, later on, later on, yeah,
right right, I.

Speaker 4 (09:25):
Don't know what I was watching Tech, but no, when
he was in the league, that's when I was like,
you know, I've always loved watching and playing sports, but
that was that was the first person to make me
be like really, like, okay, I need to I have
to watch this dude play football.

Speaker 1 (09:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:40):
There's been so much conversation about whether or not football
is a healthy sport, like whether that's something that we
should be encouraging young people to play. And certainly, I
know you you're no stranger to the conversations around head
injuries and all that. But nevertheless, what do you feel like,
particularly as a young person, what do you feel like
football gave you?

Speaker 4 (10:00):
Football is almost a person like when you take all
the values and you know, all the lessons that you
learn throughout the years of playing football, Like I've always
sit back and think to myself, like why I've been
playing football for about twenty years now, and football saw
me almost as much as my parents as like you know,

(10:22):
and I think that's why my parents got me into football,
is to teach me those lessons. But you know, as
far as just accountability, I mean scheduling, scheduling being the
most important one because you know, I'm lucky to play
professional football where my schedule is pretty much all football.

Speaker 5 (10:40):
But back when it's your.

Speaker 4 (10:41):
Student athlete, that's one of the you know, that's I
feel like every student athlete can tell you, like that's
what put me above, you know, my classmates because I
have to wake up at four thirty.

Speaker 5 (10:52):
In the morning and still go do everything that they
have to do.

Speaker 4 (10:55):
So that, you know, football just taught me so much
about just life in general and how to navigate through
it and the connections you'll make and you know how
to maintain those connections. So it's yeah, football is almost
when you personified as an actual person.

Speaker 5 (11:14):
It's like a character within itself.

Speaker 2 (11:17):
Of course, with you playing for the Saints, I would
be remiss if I didn't ask you about Derek Carr,
who made the decision a very surprising decision to retire.
When you heard that Derek Carr was retiring, what were
your kind of initial thoughts.

Speaker 4 (11:30):
Yeah, it's actually crazy. My nephew texted me that he
was like, your unk your quarterback return. I'm like, for real, Oh,
but yeah, you know I was. I was obviously shocked.
I knew he had the I think shoulder challenges. Uh,
but you know, everybody has challenges and usually getting worked
on in the off season, and so you know, at first,

(11:50):
I was just kind of like, oh, I was shocked
as far as the timing of it and what caused it.
But you know, after that, I was kind of like, wow,
you know, that's here's guy who loves football man is
ultimate teammate, Like Derek is one of the best teammates
I've ever had, you know, regardless of any of the
ups and downs of any of the teams struggles and

(12:11):
stuff like that, he's the same guy. You know, had
to go through a lot of people, you know, talking
about him crazy and stuff like that, and he's still
greeting them and met him with love and you know,
a great Christian guy and I respect him thoroughly for
what he chose, because it's not hard. I mean, it's
hard to walk away from the game. And like he
said in an interview recently, like he could have took

(12:33):
the money and you know, said forget him, but he
didn't do that.

Speaker 5 (12:37):
And that's just type of person Derek is.

Speaker 2 (12:39):
And genuinely, yeah, because I think the way that his
contract was structured is that he could have had the
shoulder surgery, could have collected the thirty million now he
was due to him this season and maybe not play
this entire season, and just took that thirty mel What
does this say about who he is that he chose
to basically leave thirty million dollars on the table.

Speaker 4 (13:00):
I mean, man like Derek is one of the most
wholesome humans I've ever met. You know, he is the
most selfless person like he he you know, as a quarterback,
you are the lead of the show quote unquote, and
he made it, you know, his point to make sure
that everybody knew that he wasn't the leader of the show.

(13:20):
And I feel like what he did just now, you know,
leaving that money on the table is the perfect personification
of what I'm saying, Like he is all about the team.
And if that doesn't show that he's all about the team,
then I don't know what else does. I mean, he's
great guy. You know, he he's showing up the same
every day to work and you know, with a smile

(13:41):
on his face, stuff like that.

Speaker 5 (13:43):
And you know, I'm happy that I got to meet him.

Speaker 4 (13:46):
I played him a lot of years and when he
was in the Raiders and I was in Kansas City,
and we've had a lot of battles, but that was
the first thing we talked about when we got to
the Saints together. It was like, you know, let's try
and go out here and win some games. And and
he's a he's a great guy, and you know, I'm
happy before him. I'm happy for his retirement, and you know,
I hope that he gets to relax and just enjoy
all the work he's put in because he's a he's

(14:07):
a legend in this league and you know, rightfully so,
so hope he enjoys it now.

Speaker 2 (14:12):
As somebody who has Super Bowl super Bowls on their resume,
this is probably a little bit bit of a different
experience with you being with the New Orleans Saints, who
seem to be going through a period of transition. Yeah, so,
how as somebody who has been accustomed to winning and
winning early in your career, how have you as a

(14:33):
player handled some of the ups and downs that have
come in New Orleans.

Speaker 5 (14:37):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (14:37):
You know, well, I felt personally that that's why they
brought me there, you know, because, like you said, there
we're going through a kind of a shift a couple
of different coaches in the last couple of years. And
I think that they brought me there because they wanted
me to cultivate the energy of togetherness and you know,

(14:58):
just through not just because hey, here's a guy who's
been to championships, nothing like that, but because of I
feel like, you know, a lot of when you get
when you talk to the teams that I've been on,
the first thing they'll say is, man, he's a great
teammate and a great locker room guy. So I feel
like the Saints wanted to pull from that through this
time of transitioning and trying, like you know, have it

(15:20):
to where I can help be the glue guy, be
you know, be keep the locker room in a good headspace.
And that's that's kind of what I've been trying to do.
No matter what, because at the end of the day,
we have great players. We have really talented Like if
I go through the depth chart and I name like
our top two guys that he spot, You'll be like, wow,
that is a good team. I mean, it's legends, it's

(15:42):
Hall of famers on our team. And and so we
just we're putting the pieces together. And I think that
the Saints brought me in, uh, you know, to be
a locker room guy and a glue guy through that
and trying you know, I'm kind of transitioning to a
new role because so he used to being a young guy,
but now I'm yeah, right right, like saying stuff like

(16:04):
all right, let being old to go through. I'm like, damn,
I'm old enough, but I am. So I've embraced them,
you know. I've been just trying to teach the young
guys as much as I can, as much as I know,
help them with their careers.

Speaker 2 (16:17):
You a moment ago were speaking about what you felt
like football gave you as a young person, and now
you're trying to do the same, and you have been
doing the same. It's not like this is the first
year you've done it. With your football camp. That is
coming up in July, you made a very intentional decision
to tell people that you wanted this camp to also

(16:38):
be inclusive of LGBTQ youth as well, and because it
seemed like people missed the part where you're like, I'm
saying it's inclusive of media, not to the exclusion of
who are not. It's just saying, hey, me making it
known that you are also welcome to this camp. Why

(16:58):
did you feel like you needed to intentionally plant that message.

Speaker 4 (17:02):
Well, I felt the need for that message. There was
a strong need for it, especially in today's climate, you know,
of of just what we.

Speaker 5 (17:13):
Consider being different in today's society. Uh I.

Speaker 4 (17:17):
You know, obviously, my brother Cameron, who is openly gay,
has been gay my entire life. Uh you know that
was kind of my driving factor behind intentionally putting that
tag on there, because my brother has been to every
event that I've ever been at, like whether that be
Little League, whether that be the super Bowl in Arizona,

(17:39):
you know, in all all games in between. And you know,
I've always uh I love my brother to death. You know,
I will always support him in anything that he does,
and he supports me as well, and so you know,
when it starts. I feel like in college was my
first time experiencing, you know, him not being comfortable in

(18:03):
the crowd of one of my games because we're actually
about to play a openly gay player on the other team,
and we're in in my hometown of my college, and
and they were saying that they were going to do
a display or a demonstration against LGBTQ right with my
brother in the crowd though, you see. So then now

(18:25):
it becomes okay, you know, I get defensive obviously, because
I'm like, first of all, this ain't even their home field.
They coming to my home field and disrespecting my brother
in the crowd, you know what I mean. So then
that's when it started. The ball started to roll. And
then as the years went on, you know, my brother
coming to my Kanasite Chiefs games and making him feel
comfortable there, And that's when I started thinking about, like,

(18:47):
you know that there should be no uh, you shouldn't
have to do work beforehand to make somebody feel comfortable
in a place, like you should just be able to
come and be who you are and be comfortable where
you are in your skin. So that's why I kind
of put that tag on it to let people know that,
you know, it is okay to be who you are

(19:09):
and enjoy things that is not quote unquote for you.
You know what I mean, Because my whole thing with
this campus is just you know, promote a message of
empathy and you know, accepting people for who they are
and to treat people as you want to be treated.
I feel like that's the number one rule in humanity
that we're kind of forgetting as a society. I mean,

(19:32):
my whole thing is, I don't care if I see
you on the street, I don't care if I see
you at some high end designer story anything like that.
I just treat you how I will want you to
treat me. And I feel like the quicker that society
can grasp that message as a whole, the better will
be as a society.

Speaker 2 (19:49):
How much when you having that empathy, it seemed to
be developed a lot by watching your brother. Yeah, so,
as you said, like he's been gay your whole life.
So what did you witness in his process of you know,
embracing and showing people who he really was.

Speaker 1 (20:10):
What did you learn from watching him? What did you see?

Speaker 5 (20:13):
I learned so much.

Speaker 4 (20:15):
You know, my brother has even even the things that
he don't know that taught me lessons like he has.
He's been There's been so many moments in my life
where I am, like, you know, considered the quote unquote
stereotypical male, heterosexual blah blah blah uh. And I watched

(20:35):
his life from the outside lens, and I'm just like wow,
Like I didn't have to go through none of that,
you know what I mean.

Speaker 5 (20:42):
Like I didn't experience none of that. I didn't know.

Speaker 4 (20:45):
I don't know how it feels to be that in this,
you know what I mean. So for example, like if
I really love dancing and like this, that's what he does,
but I'm a straight male, you know what I mean.
So I really love dancing and I want to go dance,
but it's like everybody who dances is considered to be gay.
Like I don't want to be known as you know,
I don't want to be known I'm not gay, but

(21:06):
I love dancing. I didn't have to experience that, but
he experienced that, like he you know, I love to
watch football because my brother plays in it.

Speaker 5 (21:15):
But you're gay. You can't do that. You don't You're
not supposed to be doing that.

Speaker 4 (21:19):
And so like just from everyday life from him, and
kind of that's why they call it being in a
closet because it felt like he was living in a closet,
like he couldn't, you know, be himself. And so I've
learned just you know, so much about life and being

(21:39):
a good person in general to anybody you meet because
you don't know what their circumstances are. I mean this
this is about lgbt Q plus and the you know,
the core community because I made it to be about
that because I have a connection to that with my brother.
But in general and in the broaden sense, this is
a message of accepting everybody for what they are, no

(22:01):
matter sexual orientation, no matter sexual identity, no matter skin tone, color, race,
or anything like that. I just feel like maybe it's
because of the way I was raising. You know, I
lived in a very predominantly black neighborhoods and cities, and
I got the opportunity to go to predominantly like white
and Jewish schools and stuff like that. So I've been

(22:24):
around all walks of life my whole life, and I
feel like being in those melting pots of formed me
to be the person I am today that can relate
to anybody. You know, I literally feel like there's not
one person on this earth that you know, I would
just look at them and be like, I don't think
I'm gonna like you for what reason?

Speaker 5 (22:41):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 4 (22:42):
So that's just kind of, you know, that's my stance
and how I've always lived my life, and I feel
like it's a positive way.

Speaker 5 (22:50):
To live it.

Speaker 2 (22:51):
So now you had to know that when you made
the intention publicly known that this is going to be
welcome to, you know, this group of marginalized people, that
it was going to create a reaction.

Speaker 1 (23:04):
Yeah, so what has the reaction been?

Speaker 4 (23:08):
Yeah, so obviously, you know, I always talk about social
media and the powers and powers of it, but also
the negatives of it. And so when you you understand that,
you kind of just bypass it because there's always going
to be a lot of positive and a lot of support,

(23:30):
and then there's always gonna be a lot of negativity.

Speaker 5 (23:32):
And because that's what social media is.

Speaker 4 (23:34):
It's literally a platform for people to say they like
something or don't like something. That's because that's what the
picture is posted for, to say how I like this
or oh why was she posted?

Speaker 5 (23:44):
You know what I mean? So I knew early.

Speaker 4 (23:48):
I knew from very early on that there was gonna
be you know, the people who try and spend it
the ways that they spent it, and you know, oh,
he's forcing this on to the children and stuff like that,
and then they are gonna be people who you know,
know me personally. I've played I've been playing in the
league for seven years, so I'm pretty sure there's at
least probably one person on each team that I've played with,

(24:11):
and I know that they got my back because that
type of person I am. I've never had an enemy
on any of my teams anything like that, and so
you know, when this comes up in the news, it's like, oh, man,
what's he doing and stuff like that. I know I
can rely on that person in those other locker rooms
to be like, oh, yes, my dog, big man. You
know his brother is gay and he is, you know,

(24:33):
trying to just create an environment of acceptance and positivity.
So you know, when I realized that, I really didn't.
And then on top of that, like I've said before,
my father is Ken Saunders, and that man don't care
about nothing, and I get that thoroughly from him. Like,
at the end of the day, if all of this

(24:55):
goes over anybody's head.

Speaker 5 (24:57):
Just at the end of the day, the messages I
don't care, I don't care. I'm like, what do you
what if this?

Speaker 4 (25:04):
If you don't enjoy or if you don't like me
promoting being nice to other people, go be mean somewhere else,
Like go ahead, It's this world is huge, bro, Like,
you don't got to focus on anything I'm doing if
you don't like it or support it, just like I
don't if I don't like someone support it. I just
I don't bring negative negativity to it. I just leave

(25:25):
it alone.

Speaker 5 (25:25):
I leave it be.

Speaker 4 (25:26):
So that's my whole. You know, my goal is just
to spare positivity. And if you don't want to spare positivity,
then go ahead. No, do what you want to do.

Speaker 1 (25:35):
With your brother. When did you know or realize that
he was gay?

Speaker 4 (25:42):
Since I realized my brother was gay, since I can
start remembering, honestly, like from very early on, like when
I was about five six. You know, I'm playing all
the sports and he's not like he's simple as simple
as that, Like you know, me and my brothers, I
mean be and my cousins and all of us. We're

(26:04):
playing basketball at the YMCA and he's like, you know,
in the cheerroom or or doing dance and stuff like that.
And that's not necessarily say like you got to be
gay to do that type of stuff. But it's like,
you know, from if from early on we're as kids,
we're so impressionable that we're gonna do what everybody else
does because we don't know what we're supposed to do, right,

(26:25):
So you know, if you know that you want to
be doing something different, or you feel like, all right,
this is I have no interest in that, and this
is what my interest is. We didn't necessarily say, Okay,
Kevin is gay because he likes to dance and stuff
like that. We just notice, Okay, he doesn't like to
do what the stereotypical boy is doing, so we lay

(26:48):
him to be continue to develop and be himself. And
then well I'm saying that like I'm older than or
something he did whatever I was indapers probably so I
ain't like I know, but I do know, like when
I start like having my memories for him and stuff,
I've always just remembered him, you know, being who he was,
you know who he is now and he's a professional

(27:10):
and all that now. But I still see the same,
you know what I'm saying, chubby cheek big brother that
I've always known, and now, like I said, he's just
professional with it. So we've known who he was, and
we've known now, we've known that I was gonna be
the sports Jacques playing all the sports, getting hurt and
jumping off of bunk beers and stuff.

Speaker 5 (27:30):
And then we know him as the five six seven eight.

Speaker 4 (27:35):
That's all he do it Like he walked around the
house saying five six seven eight and making choreography and
you know, when a new song comes out, like he's
the first one to make a dance to it, you
know what I mean.

Speaker 5 (27:45):
So stuff like.

Speaker 4 (27:46):
That we've always known, and it's just the orientation came second,
you know what I mean. So you know, if he
was straight doing all this stuff, it would be no different.
It's just that's who he was, and he was who
he was unapologetically, and you know he came out to
the family. It's just like, okay, nice, now tomorrow is
tomorrow still right whatever, let's keep going forward.

Speaker 2 (28:08):
So well, especially you know a little older than you
and I remember during when I was growing up, is
that very much so that kids that were considered to
be different, as you said, especially if you're a boy
and you were in the things that were considered to
be classically feminine or things that you know, girls quote unquote.

Speaker 1 (28:28):
Tended to like that.

Speaker 2 (28:29):
You got made fun of and bullying, you know quite
a bit, and the language around that and the community
feeling around that was not very positive. So how were
you all able to maybe protect your brother and that
in that way or was that even his reality where
maybe outside of your home, facing a different level of circumstances,

(28:51):
maybe some bullying, that kind of thing.

Speaker 5 (28:53):
Yes, absolutely, you said it perfectly.

Speaker 4 (28:57):
That's exactly what my family and I you know, try
to do is protect him. You know, it's it's you know,
as a mom, especially specifically my mom. You know, it's
already hard enough to have a black boy in this world,
you know, due to a number of circumstances, but then
you add gay to that, and it's even more circumstances

(29:21):
to that. So, you know, we my family household was
built on love. And I know that's a very generic
thing to say, but what the type of love that
we were built on was very unconditional, Like it's very
it's very much if we don't have anybody, We have

(29:44):
to have each other because at the end of the day,
anybody can choose to not be in our life. But yeah,
I mean even family can choose to not me in
your life. But this is the only person who I
have like made with off top, like, no matter what,
this is my brother, this is my mom, dad, this

(30:05):
is my grandmother, you know what I mean. So we
were a very tight knit family unit, and because of that,
it led to us protecting Cameron, you know, from as
much as we could, and to me, you know, me
being a rough and tough boy, I always used to
want to meet it with for us and fight for
him and stuff like that. But then I learned, like,

(30:27):
you know, you can't beat people with hatred on their heart,
you know, so all I can do is meet them
with love and hopefully change their outlook. And that's when
I started to learn to get away from the physical
and get into the more emotional and mental side of
supporting allyship. And that's what's led me to today.

Speaker 2 (30:49):
What did your brother think about you making you know,
sort of this intention known about how you wanted this
camp to be inclusive.

Speaker 1 (30:56):
What did he think?

Speaker 5 (30:57):
He was happy? He was very happy. I mean, he cried.

Speaker 4 (31:00):
Obviously he's softy, but yeah, he's you know, very happy.
He's proud, and I tell him all the time. One
thing though, he was he was scared obviously because of
like you said, the backlash, a get and all of that.
And I told him, I said, Cameron, like, we were
born for this because just as early as he just

(31:26):
as early as I knew I had a crush on
Kelly Rowland and beyond saying them, he knew he didn't
you know what I'm saying. And so I was like,
I told him that because I said, I have to
remind him sometimes, like you know, it's this can get
overwhelming because you know, I'm on the talk show with
you and I'm doing Today's show and all this stuff now,

(31:47):
But in reality, like this is what we I said,
I was born into allyship because you've known who you
were since then and I was gonna love you regardless.

Speaker 5 (31:57):
So you know, my it was destiny.

Speaker 4 (32:01):
It was it was just and the other part of
destiny was that we just both quote unquote famous now
you know what I mean, and that kind of you know,
that's why it's making the headlines that it is, because
if it was just you know, a guy that work
at Whole Foods and and then his brother that you
know whatever, work at a little office.

Speaker 5 (32:23):
Nobody would have cared.

Speaker 4 (32:24):
But it's it's the Saunders brothers, and so I feel
like that's why, you know, it is on the level
it is. But I mean, at the end of the day,
this is what this is what I was born to do.

Speaker 5 (32:34):
Literally.

Speaker 2 (32:35):
Yeah, again, negative reaction expected on the other side of it.
How have people in the community, in the lgd LGBT
plus community, how have they reacted to.

Speaker 4 (32:48):
This, People in the queer community. Uh, they have embraced me,
you know, tenfold. I mean obviously even before this, just
the love that I show for my brother, uh, because
before it is, you know, he was already starting to
get traction in. And then we didn't like the Gillette.
We had a little Gillette like you know, sponsorship and

(33:09):
demo type of thing, and uh, even with that, we
started to see like how much support that people were
getting this. And I started getting messages from random people
I've never met, and they're just like, you know, what
you're doing in the community is so powerful and impactful
and stuff like that. And I didn't even look at
it as anything that I was trying to make an

(33:29):
impact with. It was just more so of a oh, yeah,
this is like let me make sure they know that
they're included. Not not necessarily like you said, an exclusive
to you know, straight people or anything like that, but
it was like, more so, let me know that they're included.
And then it became all of this, and so, you know,
I think that I've always just tried to have people

(33:52):
feel welcome and included and it's turned into this. But
you know that was wasn't my intention at first. It
was just you know, show show support.

Speaker 2 (34:00):
Now, football, as you know, is one of the most masculine,
you know, especially NFL locker rooms. Have I don't know,
have you heard from your teammates or other people you
play with, or even just generally people around the league
about what you're doing and whatever they said.

Speaker 4 (34:15):
Yeah, you know, obviously my teammates we talked about in
the locker room, just you know, in passing and stuff.
And you know, obviously everybody, like I said, the people
that know me and the relationships that I form within
a team, they know where my heart is because they
know what the same way that I would do anything
for them, I would do anything for you know, all

(34:37):
my friends and all my brothers and stuff like that.

Speaker 5 (34:39):
So I feel like the second people.

Speaker 4 (34:41):
Meet me, they understand where my heart is and they
understand what I'm trying to accomplish with this more so
in being a vestige of acceptance and empathy and love
as opposed to you know, persuasion, you know what I mean.
And so you know, I feel like within my own
locker room, that conversation has started and to where it's

(35:02):
UH is making some progress. And then across UH the
league and and and across other areas, UH in sports
as well. You know, we're starting to see UH more
openly gay people be in different sports obviously, like track
is one of the ones I've noticed a lot of
openly gay people have been in and UH. And then

(35:22):
it's also in basketball, not the NBA, but the w
n B A Like that's they're very you know, opening
that regard as well. And so it's not like it's
something that's not going on, you know, it's just not
in football. And I feel like what I've said before
and I will stick by is is let the athlete
be the athlete. Like if you have metrics that say,

(35:45):
if you have metrics and stats that say, hey, I'm
good at this, then you're good at it. Like there
should be no no, you know, are you good at it?
But you're gay, so you're not good at it? No,
that makes no sense. Like I bring up Michael Sam
all the time, because that's a person like like, this
is a man who is the SEC Player of the Year,
Like the SEC is the best conference in college football

(36:06):
and arguably and he was the best defender in that conference,
and yet somehow his NFL career just magically didn't pan out.
You know, stuff like that it makes you question people's
motives and and and agendas and stuff like that.

Speaker 5 (36:20):
But you know, I think that we're we're in a.

Speaker 4 (36:25):
Climate of a society right now where it needs to
be talked about and and and it can only move forward.
You know, it's hard to go backwards from where we're
at right now, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (36:35):
So yeah, I mean there's an openly game player in
the NFL right now who plays for the Raiders.

Speaker 5 (36:40):
Yeah, caring this, he reached out, He reaches out.

Speaker 4 (36:43):
Oh yeah, me and me and him have been ever
since this came out, Me and Carl Nassim and Trey McBride,
who is his he has two mothers. We have all
three of us have been in contact like thoroughly, and
you know they're like Carls more so of man, thank
you for you know, supporting all of that. And then
Trey McBride is more so of you know, a message

(37:04):
of he's just preaching the same message because he has
his two mothers. So yeah, you know, I think that
I've been getting again some support and uh, like I said,
Carlo is the only one that is openly gay. But
you know, I just hope that my message is, you know,
to help anybody who feels like they're in the closet
or you know, can't be themselves.

Speaker 5 (37:24):
It's just be yourself, you know.

Speaker 4 (37:26):
Be be who you want to be, and be who
you are because it's too hard to be anybody else.

Speaker 5 (37:30):
Not.

Speaker 2 (37:31):
I know, NFL players are not naive. They do realize
that they there's a very high percentage chance that they
have played with someone who is gay and they just
didn't know it right, right, So it's like, you know,
so to some degree of just like you do realize that.

Speaker 5 (37:45):
Yeah, you have to be right.

Speaker 4 (37:47):
It's like just look at the numbers, like you know, yeah,
if you know, unless just one in fifty one and
every fifty three men are gay, then you know, you
played with.

Speaker 5 (37:58):
Somebody that's gay. So uh yeah, that's you know.

Speaker 4 (38:01):
I think that once people kind of just take a
step back from what they what they feel about the
topic and just really look at it as you know,
because one another thing I would say is that everybody
has something that they, I guess feel like a different
about as far as you know, they have something that
they are trying to quote unquote hide because it's not

(38:23):
the norm of society, right, Like whether that be I
smoke cigarettes, or whether that be I drink too much
or something like that. Like, everybody has something that they're
you know, not that happy about, but being gay is
the only one that like everybody makes this big deal about,
you know what I mean. So I think that once,

(38:44):
you know, once we realize that, you know, know what
they say, like, no sin is greater than the others.
So everybody has things that they're not proud about or
that's quote unquote different from the norm. But once we
can accept everybody for who they are, that's when we
truly will achieve a society of bliss, like a society
of just people minding their business and living their life

(39:06):
and enjoying it.

Speaker 2 (39:09):
Seeing where the NFL was when Michael Sam was drafted. Actually,
you know what, I'll wait. I'll ask you this on
the other side of the break, the real quick because
I have a ton more to ask you, including about
you have some very strong opinions about whether or not
football players can play basketball.

Speaker 5 (39:28):
So yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (39:30):
I wait to ask you about that. But before I
get to that question, I want to ask you. We'll
take a quick break and we'll be back with more
with Colin Saunders. So what I was going to ask
you before we took a break. You see, where the

(39:50):
league was when Michael Sam was drafted. It was a
huge story. You know, there was a lot of different
conversations happening publicly privately across the league.

Speaker 1 (40:01):
But looking where the league is.

Speaker 2 (40:02):
Now, and you know, we were talking about Karl who
plays I think the Raiders right with the Raiders, much
different climate for him. So does it feel like the
NFL as a league isn't a much better place of acceptance.

Speaker 1 (40:17):
Than they were before when it comes to openly gay players.

Speaker 4 (40:20):
Absolutely, I mean just from even you know, seeing the
fact that the NFL is in a rainbow, like they
have the logo of the NFL with rainbow codes on it.
That alone is and you know that's very simple, but
that's very as progressive as well, you know, because like
you know, that's like seeing a lot of logos and

(40:42):
things mean very strongly for people, you know, And so
seeing the NFL shield and like I said, with the
real white and blue and all of that, and then
it's now a rainbow and you know, in supportive of
especially whether it be in June, in Pride months and
stuff like that, you know that that speaks volumes for
the people who feel represented because there are you know,

(41:06):
coaches and stuff as well, like a lot of the
women coaches in the league that are that are gay.
You know, that helps them like they feel seen, and so, uh,
you know, I think we're definitely making a little more
progress just the simple fact that Carl has been in
the league and able to get opportunities, especially on different teams.

(41:26):
I feel like he's been on at least two teams,
and so just that fact alone is showing that it's
a little bit more progressive. And and then as far
as just allyship uh you know, like I said this
from the start.

Speaker 5 (41:41):
This is not a.

Speaker 4 (41:43):
Push to persuade anybody to do anything or to be
a certain way. It's just a push to accept people
how they are, you know what I mean. So I
don't think that I think that you know, we're we're
making progress and we're making strides towards accepting people for
who they are.

Speaker 2 (42:01):
Well, you know, push is always an interesting word when
it comes to talking about the queer community because and
I've had this conversation at Nausen with other hetero sexuals
who are who sometimes will express that same you're pushing
it on and this and that, And I was like,
existence and pushing are two different things, and they don't

(42:21):
seem to be able to separate the two. Is that
you know, they should be allowed to exist much in
the same way we exist as hetero sexuals, right, Like
they should be able to do these same things. And
so really a lot of times is that some people
would just prefer them not to exist. And that is
a different, you know, sort of conversation. And I was

(42:43):
so glad that earlier that you brought up the fact
that you know, as a young boy, you knew your crushes.
I mean, people do it all the time, little boys
ask them like who you got a crush on?

Speaker 5 (42:52):
Or whatever.

Speaker 1 (42:53):
It's like, so this.

Speaker 2 (42:54):
Idea that children are not aware of sexuality is frankly
not true. It is not and so I find that
that sometimes can be, you know, a bit of a roadblock.
You brought up how the NFL has embraced Pride Month,
and I saw the ad that they had that the
opening title card.

Speaker 1 (43:14):
Was the NFL is Gay, And as soon as I
saw that, I.

Speaker 5 (43:17):
Was like that.

Speaker 2 (43:22):
Already you have, like former player Des Brian, some other
players who have not felt very positively towards that message.

Speaker 1 (43:30):
What was your take on the campaign?

Speaker 4 (43:33):
Man? It's just like, I don't know how people can't
dissociate like their feeling is about something just to see
stuff for facts in black and white, you know, because.

Speaker 5 (43:50):
That obviously the message is not.

Speaker 4 (43:52):
Like what what makes you think that whoever made this
video was saying everybody in the NFL is gay?

Speaker 5 (44:01):
You know?

Speaker 4 (44:02):
And that's why it's like some of this stuff is
just laughable because it's almost like explaining it to a child.

Speaker 5 (44:09):
I have four children now, and.

Speaker 4 (44:12):
These are the type of things that I would have
to explain to them, like, no, baby, they're not saying
that Daddy not gay is because it's like, you know,
clearly they're saying that this there is that within the space.
They're not saying that everybody within this space is that.

Speaker 5 (44:29):
So it's like it's.

Speaker 4 (44:31):
Almost like I said, it's almost laughable because people take
what they want to take, and they take the messages
how they want to because like you said, right when
you seeing that and you knew how it was gonna
because just like when I announced this camp, I immediately knew,
Like I was talking about my marketing agent and I said,
I already know that there's gonna be at least half

(44:52):
of the app that says, oh wow, either A he
is gay himself or B he's trying to make our
children gay.

Speaker 5 (44:58):
I already knew that.

Speaker 4 (45:00):
But it's like, when you know what you really are
trying to accomplish, you can see past all of that.
And I feel like, you know, you know, and I
does bright a great player and all of that in
that regard, but you know, if you can't just look
past that, you know, initial feeling of he's calling me

(45:21):
gay or something like that, you know you can't you'll
never understand what that what's truly trying to be accomplished,
and is that you never know.

Speaker 5 (45:29):
I mean, I ain't gonna wish on.

Speaker 4 (45:30):
Dens or anybody, but like, if you have a son
who eventually identifies as a gay person, how are you
going to accept that?

Speaker 5 (45:39):
How are you going to treat that? You know what
I mean?

Speaker 4 (45:41):
Are you going to a run away from it and
disown your kid and stuff like that, which that's very
prevalent and especially in a black community, Or are you
going to be a good person and parents or child?

Speaker 5 (45:57):
You know what I mean, As.

Speaker 4 (45:58):
Simple as that sounds, it shouldn't take much more thought
than this came for me, and I need to nurture it.
But you know, some people need more convincing to be
a parent, so which is unfortunate. But you know, hey,
I feel like, you know, we're getting to that time
where we just got to sit down as a society
and really understand what messages are being construed and what

(46:22):
we're taken from these messages, because people take what they
want to take. Like you hear a message, we can
hear the same message and interpreted two different ways. And
I feel like there's there a lot of times are
very clearly one way that a message should have been.

Speaker 2 (46:37):
Taken so there, and I think you understand this even
more innately as a as a black man when it
comes to allyship, we know who our allies are, and
we know who they are, and we know what that
looks like from what you've been able to learn as
an ally, what would you say as people try to

(47:01):
figure out ways that they can be a better ally,
be it to the queer community, be it to the
black community, whatever marginalized group, what would you say are
some things that people who want to be allies should
do in order to you know, prove like, hey, I'm
in this for something real.

Speaker 5 (47:19):
Right.

Speaker 4 (47:20):
The first, very first thing that I can say for
a person to do is to treat people how you
want to be treated.

Speaker 5 (47:27):
Right. So that's very generic.

Speaker 4 (47:29):
All of our grandmamas has told us that, but we
really take a step back and look at the root
of the phrase and like, just the real meaning of
the phrase is that, you know, obviously and broken down
in the simplest terms, you know, explaining to a child,
you'll be like, Okay, if you know you don't want
somebody to punch you in your eye, don't punch them

(47:51):
in their eye, right, So that's how you break it
down in terms of a child. But then you you know,
get into the more into the intricacies of life and
growing up as an adult, and then you see, okay,
it's not just physical. Okay, maybe I don't you know,
I've been having this whatever day type of day I've
been having, and I don't want to go to somewhere

(48:14):
I feel that I'm you know, going there to be comforting,
like Starbucks or something.

Speaker 5 (48:19):
I'm like, Okay, this has.

Speaker 4 (48:21):
Been a bad day, but at least I get to
give me a cheese danish and whatever. And then I
go in there and here's somebody say, look at this faggot,
Like you know what I'm saying, Like, I feel like
it's common it's very common sense to not do that.
But I feel like, also, you know, as much as

(48:41):
racism and other forms of hate, there learned and pass
through generations, so you know, we've learned that being gay
is wrong from prior generations and that's been passed down.
And then you'll get to a and to a guy
who was born in two thousand and four and you
be like, you know, why do you hey gay people?

Speaker 5 (49:00):
I'm like, I don't know.

Speaker 4 (49:01):
He really don't even know he's just because his dad
didn't like it. I mean, his granddad didn't like it,
and his great granddad didn't like it. So, you know,
I feel like we're trying to break that way of
thinking of just generational thinking, and you know, trying to
make it a better society going forward in general for everybody.

Speaker 5 (49:22):
You know.

Speaker 2 (49:24):
Also, a component of allyship is risk. And I had
a conversation with a former NFL punter, Chris Coleoi. He
was a guest on the podcast, and when he played
for the Vikings, he aligned himself with queer causes, you know,
because I think I think gay marriage may have been

(49:44):
a debater on the table, and so he showed up
for that community and it was not received well by
the organization, you know, not not necessarily about the cause,
but mostly about the level of how polarizing the issue
can be. And you know, it's the number one word
that they hate in the NFL distraction. So were you

(50:07):
ever concerned about or how much were you concerned that
putting yourself out there in this way as an ally
to this community that maybe from an organizational standpoint, it
might be frowned upon, or maybe it could cost you opportunities.

Speaker 1 (50:22):
Like, how concern were you about that?

Speaker 4 (50:24):
Yeah, you know, that's obviously a huge concern. But at
the end of the day, you know, I'm not gonna
be playing in the NFL for that long. I'm not
gonna be not for that long, but I'm not going
to be you know, this is a this is a
short lived career. I'm blessed of make it to seven years.
But you know, there's no guarantee that you play for forever.
But I'm gonna be an ally to my brother for forever,

(50:48):
you know what I mean. That's gonna be my brother forever.
I'm not going to be an NFL player forever, but
that's gonna be my brother forever. And you know, I
think that there's a way of doing things as well.
You know that that I try my best to not
offend anybody with anything that I do, which is why
I'm not like saying, hey, if you don't come to
this camp, you're wrong and stuff like that, Like, no,

(51:10):
it's not like that. Like I said, if you don't
support when i'm the message that I'm purtruing, then I'm not.
You know, I have no problem with that at all,
you know, and you can go your separate way, and
then I'll just try and like I said, cultivate environment
of learning and empathy as opposed to you know, a

(51:31):
negativity and just following what the next person does.

Speaker 5 (51:35):
And so you know, I think that you.

Speaker 4 (51:38):
Know, my my biggest go or my biggest attribute, and
as far as not being distracted in the NFL is
just genuineus, Like this is.

Speaker 5 (51:49):
Genuinely who I am.

Speaker 4 (51:51):
And my team knows that, my team has met my
brother plenty of times. And just like you know, when
when they want to ask questions about my allyship and
stuff like that, like if you can ask questions about it,
then it can't be a distraction for me because they're
asking the same you know what I mean, Like I'm
getting reporters asking questions about my brother and him dancing

(52:14):
and being on tour and all that stuff like that.
So if it's not a distraction, then it's not a
distraction when I want to bring it up conveniently for
myself as well.

Speaker 1 (52:23):
With your brother, So who knows more about which do
you know more about Taylor Swift or does he know
more about football?

Speaker 5 (52:31):
Yeah? He definitely.

Speaker 1 (52:32):
He's on tour with Taylor Swift.

Speaker 5 (52:35):
I think it's over with. Yeah, it's over with now.

Speaker 4 (52:37):
But yeah he was, Yeah he was, but no, he
definitely know more about football. Yeah, because I realized he's
been playing. I've been playing football since I was eight,
like he been on tour with her for two years.
So I will I will say admittedly I did learn
a lot more of her songs and I didn't. I

(52:59):
knew more songs that I then I thought I knew too.
But that being said, no, he definitely knows more about football.
Like I've been doing this since I was seven, eight
years old, he's been and he been almost every game.

Speaker 1 (53:11):
So did you go to a Taylor Swift show to
see Oh.

Speaker 4 (53:13):
Yeah, oh yeah I've been. I've been about three of them,
so yeah, I've seen them.

Speaker 1 (53:17):
For sure, So I guess it was. It would have
been interesting because you left the Chiefs in.

Speaker 5 (53:24):
Two years ago. Two years ago, so I'm going on
my third year with the.

Speaker 2 (53:27):
Facts, right, So this preceded Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey.

Speaker 5 (53:32):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I was.

Speaker 1 (53:33):
Now imagine if you would.

Speaker 5 (53:35):
Yeah, doesn't everybody.

Speaker 1 (53:37):
Say your brother to it?

Speaker 5 (53:39):
That would have been Yeah, that's everybody's been asked.

Speaker 4 (53:43):
I'm like, yeah, we ain't have they Just that happened
and then all these questions started a rising.

Speaker 5 (53:48):
I'm like, did we do something like what? But no,
you know that was just it was.

Speaker 4 (53:55):
It's just a series of events that just just went
like that. But you know it was crazy though when
I got end up getting traded and then you know,
all of that happened. But I love I love Trav.
You know, that's my guy, one of my favorite teammates.
So I'm happy that he's happy.

Speaker 1 (54:11):
Have you been able to meet Taylor Swift through your brother?

Speaker 4 (54:14):
Actually no, I've you know, I've been to a lot
of her shows and stuff like that, but I you know,
I come for Cam, you know what I mean, like
and you know, Taylor Swift is the cool probably the
coolest boss you can ever have. But you know, I
come and I and I support and I'm just trying to,
you know, give give that love, support that he's always

(54:35):
given me and whenever he comes to my game.

Speaker 2 (54:37):
So all right, well, Colin, I I conclude every podcast
by asking what I call a messy question, a question
design to trick you into making a headline. So you
had not too long ago, some very strong opinions about
whether or not football players. And this was based off

(54:58):
I guess to get the fullbacks. Jason Tatum had ridicule
football players who tried to play basketball, right and saying
that that's one of the funniest things he's ever seen.
Is like when football players try to play basketball. You
have taken exception to this, all right, So which sport
has better athletes? Basketball or football?

Speaker 4 (55:18):
Football better athletes? That's like, like you don't even that's
not even a question.

Speaker 5 (55:27):
Have you ever seen Tyreek Gill do anything?

Speaker 4 (55:29):
Yes, Like this man is like five foot one and
can do an East Bay windmill? Like come on now,
Like that's you just don't see that in other sports.
So yeah, football got the best athletes for sure.

Speaker 2 (55:44):
Now, when it comes to playing basketball, if do you
think you could assemble a team of a team of
football players who could give some basketball players and run.

Speaker 1 (55:56):
The idea of.

Speaker 2 (55:57):
Say, let's say flag football, of putting together a team
of basketball players that can get you all run in
some flag.

Speaker 1 (56:05):
So say tackle because that's.

Speaker 4 (56:07):
The point, because that's the thing, right we played, This
sport is tackle football, Like because when you're getting the flag,
now you're talking about like the Olympic, Dude, that's saying
he better than Tyreka that is he we don't know.
What we play is tackle football, right, So do I
think you can form a team of NBA players play?

Speaker 5 (56:26):
No?

Speaker 4 (56:26):
Absolutely, not like I will torch anybody in a one
on one in the entire NBA in a pass words
one on one, I promise you. But by the same token, yes,
if we game up with a five and then win
against you know, all these NBA players, but they win absolutely.

Speaker 5 (56:46):
But you think like you.

Speaker 2 (56:49):
Feel like your skill level as a basketball player is
much closer to theirs than theirs their skill level as
a football You do because.

Speaker 4 (56:57):
Because think about it, some guys the NBA hat Rudy Gobert.

Speaker 5 (57:04):
Like I'm not saying he bad or nothing, but like
what is his job?

Speaker 4 (57:09):
It's rebounds and stuff like like exactly, Like, so you
got you got guys who are specifically there for one reason.
You tell me we can't find the best shooter in
the NFL. Send him in the corner and have somebody
that's tall enough to drive and kick it to him every.

Speaker 5 (57:24):
Time at the end the day is a shot that
is fifty to fifty.

Speaker 4 (57:26):
That's what I always live by. So if he gonna
make that shot, he gonna make it. If he don't,
he don't. Now with the NBA players, probably be able
to shoot a little better, yes, but that's not act
like we don't train footwork every every single day. Like
it's easy to slide. It's easier to slide with people
that you think like and then we big bodies.

Speaker 5 (57:44):
So I don't know.

Speaker 4 (57:46):
I just I take exceptions to that because I can hoop,
I plat out, I can hoop.

Speaker 5 (57:51):
I've played with some of the professionals.

Speaker 4 (57:53):
I played with Obie Topping and PG and uh Kobe
White and proactive, and you can ask them I can
do this for real. Now, my endurance, that's where they
win it. That's where they win because up and down court,
I get it. Y'all might have a sorry, but you
give me a team of like you know what I'm saying.

(58:16):
I mean because DK ain't even that tall, but DK metcalf.
It's like you got to measure the height and the strength, Like, yeah,
he's only sixty four, but are you backing him down?

Speaker 5 (58:26):
No, you're not.

Speaker 4 (58:27):
You can shoot over him, but he's he can jump too,
so he's gonna contest the shot. It's not like you're
just playing against you know, somebody who don't know how
to be athletic.

Speaker 5 (58:35):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 4 (58:36):
That's what kills me about the whole thing, because you
got guys who literally do one thing on the court
and make a living off of it, and apparently you
don't think that we can go. If I went and
specialized in shooting one shot my entire career and that
was all I did was sit in the corner, I
can I would make that shot more times than I

(58:58):
miss it. As opposed to of them, We've seen dramnd
trying to play football like I'm not just making this up, bro,
Like they you can't if not seven on seven different
whereas the contact is limited and that's different. But if
I'm putting my hands on any of them people in
the NBA, I don't care. I will honestly confidently say

(59:19):
I don't think one person in the NBA can stop
me from getting to a quarterback.

Speaker 5 (59:24):
Now. Do I think I can score on somebody the NBA? Absolutely?

Speaker 2 (59:27):
Oh absolutely, There's something I would love a made for TV.

Speaker 4 (59:32):
Yeah, pros Versus Jones. I remember on Spike TV pros
Verse Joe that.

Speaker 5 (59:36):
Was my favorite.

Speaker 4 (59:36):
I want to bring that back so bad because well
that's outside of the NBA versus NFL.

Speaker 5 (59:41):
That was more so the Twitter trolls, and I would
love I would love that as well.

Speaker 2 (59:46):
But yeah, at yeah, yeah yeah.

Speaker 1 (59:50):
Interesting.

Speaker 2 (59:51):
So you're saying that if you know, if Lebron James
is protecting Patrick Mahomes, you're gonna get past.

Speaker 5 (59:59):
Them thousand percent one percent. I love like Bron and
that's fine.

Speaker 1 (01:00:08):
I hate it.

Speaker 5 (01:00:08):
That's fine, so so is Tyren Smith.

Speaker 4 (01:00:11):
But guess what, Tyler Smith six eight with three fifteen though,
like you think Bron, come on, I love Bron, Bron
my goat, but Ron gonna feel his long arm and
stab club rip and that.

Speaker 5 (01:00:22):
Boy gonna be like, wow, I am not good at this.
Just what it is.

Speaker 4 (01:00:27):
I'm in doing this b Like, I'm sorry you whoever y'all, biggest, baddest,
you know what I'm saying, Big baby Davis, whoever they
want to break, it's not gonna work.

Speaker 1 (01:00:37):
You.

Speaker 5 (01:00:39):
You ain't trained when I trained, like you can't.

Speaker 4 (01:00:42):
Have you ever seen the video of Kevin Durant trying
to pass rush on a like a not even in
the NFL, oh tackle and get him up like that's
that's what this will be like real, for real, And
I'm very confident in that because until you feel that,
like until you feel what it feels like to get
picked on a game or a three hundred pounds man

(01:01:04):
come hit all of this and you like this like
till you feel that, you don't know how that like
you and the felt little elbow and the ribs on
the jump shot. But you ain't felt, Uh what's you
ain't felt? What's doing on the Eagles? Jalen Carter? You
know what I'm saying, coming full speed in the side
of your head, like straight helmet right here.

Speaker 5 (01:01:27):
You ain't felt there before, and you can't that.

Speaker 4 (01:01:30):
It's a different kind of pain like we're going through
real car crashes every play. Yeah, and that's why I
said I'm not gonna argue the flag football because that's
it's not the same No, no, see that's not That's
not the same sport football. The contact makes a huge
difference problem.

Speaker 1 (01:01:47):
What you heard her first?

Speaker 2 (01:01:48):
You call NBA players off, It's okay.

Speaker 5 (01:01:55):
Whatever they want to say.

Speaker 4 (01:01:56):
I just know if you tell me, if all right,
out of ten possessions and I got to score a
bucket and then ten possessions, I got to get a
pass rush.

Speaker 1 (01:02:05):
You going ten for ten.

Speaker 4 (01:02:07):
I'm going ten for ten pass rush, and then I
might go like three of ten. But the fact that
I can go three of ten and you can't go
zero of you will go zero of ten on me
like trying to protect me from getting the pass that
to let you know who's better, it was sport.

Speaker 1 (01:02:20):
I can't wait to ask a basketball player this question.
This is gonna be amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:02:23):
Well, Colin, thank you so much for joining me for
this episode of politics. Your camp is July fifth, fifth already,
just real quick? Have you do you anticipate that there
will be some LGBTQ plus youth that will be at
the camp.

Speaker 5 (01:02:38):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:02:38):
Absolutely, you know, I know, I don't know about the
specifics of who will be there as far as the youth,
but I've been getting so much support and just outreach
from you know, social media influencers and people that you know,
maybe not the youth, but like I just did some
work with It's a page on Instagram called Rainbow Dads

(01:03:00):
and they they are two dads that are married, they
have a son who is you know, the youth. So
situations like that where the parents are actually in the
community and they just wanted to have their kids come
and learn.

Speaker 5 (01:03:13):
About the community a little more.

Speaker 4 (01:03:15):
That I've been getting a lot of that as well,
So even all the way from that to people want
to volunteer and just help the calls and you know,
help it be a great day.

Speaker 5 (01:03:24):
So yeah, I've been getting I've been getting a lot
of outreach.

Speaker 2 (01:03:27):
Okay, well July fifth and it's taking places and St.
Louis all right, So make sure everybody make sure you
check that out. If you want more information, make sure
that you go to original element dot org. Good luck
with everything, Good luck with this season. I really appreciate
you joining me absolutely. One more segment to go coming
up next, the Final Spin. All right, Tom out for

(01:04:00):
the Final Spin. The headline, WNBA players vote Kaitlyn Clark
ninth the mong guards in All Star voting. The spin,
WNBA players are jealous of Kaitlyn Clark.

Speaker 1 (01:04:11):
The truth.

Speaker 2 (01:04:12):
I hated that dig Bytell, who I have a lot
of respect for, used his social media platform to spread
such a terrible narrative. I respect you, Dicky B, but
you were missing some key context.

Speaker 1 (01:04:23):
Let me learn you.

Speaker 2 (01:04:24):
WNBA all Stars are determined based on three components.

Speaker 1 (01:04:27):
The fan vote, a media vote, and a player vote.

Speaker 2 (01:04:29):
The fan vote accounts for fifty percent, the media vote
and the player vote account for the other fifty twenty
five percent each. Kaitlyn Clark finished first in the fan
voting by a significant margin because she got the most
fan votes. She finished third in the media vote and
ninth in the players. But here's the thing, the players
didn't actually vote her ninth.

Speaker 1 (01:04:49):
They couldn't.

Speaker 2 (01:04:49):
The players can vote on four guards and six front
court players. Caitlin Clark did not make it in the
top four of enough player ballots. Therefore, it dropped her
cumulative score to ninth, best among guards.

Speaker 1 (01:05:02):
So again, the players did not vote her ninth.

Speaker 2 (01:05:05):
But it's really not that controversial that a lot of
players didn't have her in their top four. Here's why.
Caitlyn Clark has missed half of the Indiana Fevers games
due to injury. As of the recording of this podcast,
she is averaging six turnovers a game, which is highest
in the league. She is also shooting twenty nine percent
from three and thirty nine percent overall, and while she

(01:05:25):
is averaging eighteen and a half points per game by
any objective measure, she has not had a great season
and those are not All Star numbers, so based on that,
isn't really that controversial that the players.

Speaker 1 (01:05:38):
Didn't rank her in the top four.

Speaker 2 (01:05:40):
Also, my suspicion is that the players knew she was
a lot for the All Star Game anyway, and they
may have purposely used their ballots to get other players
who probably weren't going to get strong fans support.

Speaker 1 (01:05:54):
Or maybe even media support some recognition.

Speaker 2 (01:05:57):
Caitlyn is the most popular player in the WNBA, and
the All Star Game is in Indianapolis. The odds of
her not making the All Star team were less than zero.
Caitlyn was named a captain for the All Star Game,
so all this whining about the player vote is truly inconsequential.
I'm just tired of this narrative that the players are
all jealous of her, and I am convinced this narrative

(01:06:19):
wouldn't be nearly as persistent if the WNBA wasn't seventy
percent black. The racial pornography of positioning black women as
villains of the darling white girl is just too irresistible
for some people. Even though Sabrina i and Escu and
Paige Beckers, both of whom are white, finished second and
fourth among the players respectively. Hell, if anyone should have

(01:06:42):
been pissed, it should be Kelsey Blum, who is averaging
more points, shooting better from the field and from three
point range than Kaitlyn Clark, and the composite voting dropped
her to sixteenth among the players.

Speaker 1 (01:06:53):
There are not fifteen.

Speaker 2 (01:06:54):
Better point guards than Kelsey Plum, nor are there eight
point guards better than Kaitlyn Clark. But don't blame the players,
blame the composite numbers. This concludes another episode of Politics.
Make sure you get at me on social media or email.
I'm at Jamail Hill across all social media platforms Twitter, Instagram,
fan based, Blue Sky, and threads. Please use the hashtags politics.

(01:07:18):
You also have the option of emailing me as Politics
twenty twenty four at gmail dot com. You can also
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Politics on iHeart and followspolitics pod on Instagram and TikTok.
Politics is spelled s po l I tics. A new
episode is Politics drops every Thursday on iHeart podcast or

(01:07:41):
wherever you get your podcasts. This is politics where sports
and politics don't just mix.

Speaker 1 (01:07:47):
They Matter.

Speaker 2 (01:07:51):
Politics is the production of iHeart Podcasts and the Unbothered Network.
I'm Your host Jamel Hill. Executive producer is Taylor Schakogin.
Lucas Hyman is Head of Audio and executive producer. Original
music FROs Politics provided by Kyle VISs from wiz FX