July 17, 2025 • 50 mins
On this week's filibuster, Jemele shares her thoughts on whether Laker fans should be worried that LeBron James won’t be a Laker next season. Jemele is then joined by Hall of Famer Swin Cash, the former University of Connecticut star who recently served in the New Orleans Pelicans front office. Swin discusses her motivation behind creating her She’s Got Time platform, which is dedicated to empowering and connecting women across the sports industry. Swin also shares why she believes so many NBA teams are hiring former women’s basketball players for front office positions, how close the NBA is to having its first female head coach, and how she feels about the WNBA returning to Detroit, where she played the first six years of her 16-year WNBA career.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, what's up everybody. I'm Jamel Hill and welcome to
his politics. And I heard podcasts and unbothered production time
to get spolitical. I've been in Los Angeles for seven
years now. It's the sixth city I've lived in, and
(00:22):
in my big age, I can be honest about something.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
It's tied boss.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Now you get to a certain age and all that
moving and shaking doesn't move and shake.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
You like it used to. Which is why I am
not the tiniest big concern that.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Lebron James won't finish his career as a Los Angeles
Lakers despite all of the reports we've been hearing about
how he's sow in his feelings about the Lakers shifting
the franchise's focus to Luka Doncic, that is even remotely
possible that he won't finish his.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Career in Los Angeles.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Now, throughout his career, Lebron has done a masterful job
of using his leverage to apply the maximum pressure to
a franchise to make sure they don't waste any of
his precious years not competing for a championship. Now, any
team that signs Lebron should know that his unofficial model
that he's there for a good time and not necessarily
a long time. But as soon as the reports started
that the NBA's all time leading scorer was possibly planning
(01:18):
an exit from the Lakers, you know what I did,
ring ring hello?
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Is this bullshit? Can I speak to the manager police?
That's right? I called bullshit.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Now in my mind, people read entirely too much. And
to his agent Rich Paul's statement last month, which came
after Lebron opted into a fifty two point six million
dollar contract option, here's what Paul said. Lebron knows the
Lakers are building for the future, and he also wants
to compete for championships. We understand the difficulty in winning
(01:49):
now while preparing for the future.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
We do not want to.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Evaluate what's best for Lebron at this stage in his
life and career. Because Rich Paul didn't give the defenditi
if he's all the in statement, Suddenly every debate show
and every talk show had a story they could ride
out until the football season started.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
Lebron could very well leave LA for another team, He
might retire, and he might even just buy a team
to play with his sons. If Lebron somehow actually left
the Lakers. There are just three teams he would realistically
go to. I want to break down exactly how each
of those would work. But is he actually serious this time?
I mean, we have heard Lebron Mike NOI so many times,
but actually this does feel different because dude picked up
(02:31):
his fifty two point six million dollar player option, which
has literally never happened. Kybron always renegotiates an add on
another player option year, has never in his twenty two
years been on an expiring contract until now, so we
already knew that something was up. But then his agent
Rich Paul said, Lebron knows the Lakers are building for
the future, and he also wants to compete for championships.
(02:54):
We understand the difficulty of winning now while preparing for
the future, so we want to value it. What's best
for Lebron at this year, his life and career. Oh
the passive aggressive Lebron statement. It's a classic.
Speaker 4 (03:05):
Where is the fastest, easiest path to the NBA Finals
for Lebron James, It's the place he has avoided his
entire career. That's right, everybody, It's right here in New York.
Oh boy, I want to say, I dare him my
double dog dare him, Like, if you really really believe
in all the words you're saying right there, the one
place that you know you could go. All you have
(03:27):
to do is say it, Sing it if you want,
like Sinatra, New York, New York.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Guys, guys, look, I get it.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
We're in that summertime law where there's not a whole
lot going on on the sports calendar. Everybody is trying
to just thug it out until football season or until
football training camps open. But this is the biggest non
story on the docket. Lebron ain't going nowhere. If Lebron
wanted to go somewhere, he would have never opted in.
(03:53):
If he was really about that, I'm about to leave
the Lakers life and go somewhere else to compete for
a championship this very second. All he had to do
was leave the fifty million dollars right on the table.
Now we've seen Rich Paul say similar things in the past,
but to be honest, Lebron had more leverage stand The
Lakers are trying to as gently as possible move on
(04:14):
and focus on building around their next superstar, which is
Luka Doncic.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Despite being forty years old.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Lebron is still that guy, but it would be absolutely
crazy for the Lakers to focus they're planning on building
around a player who has what two seasons max. That's
not being disrespectful, that is just reality and as valuable
as Lebron James still is, the way the league is
now a championship level team, trading for him would be
(04:41):
very difficult to pull off. Take for example, the team
that people often say would be a perfect landing spot
for Lebron his former team, Cleveland. But Cleveland can't trade
for him because they are over the second Apron and
they don't have a player on the roster making the
same amount as Lebron.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
The math don't math.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
The way that could happen is if Lebron would have
chosen not to pick up his player option.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
The Lakers could buy Lebron out, but for who?
Speaker 5 (05:08):
For what?
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Lebron is still a very productive player. You gonna buy
him out just so he can go win with somebody else?
Doesn't make sense for them, especially since they still see
themselves as one of the clusters of teams that could
win or compete in the West, and at this point
in his career, any team that trades for Lebron. Would
have to think is it worth it blowing up my
team when I could maybe squeeze a year or two
(05:32):
out of Lebron? Again, no disrespect, but is it really
worth it to do that?
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Probably not.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
But let me get back to what I said in
the beginning about being tired. I know for a fact
that Lebron loves Los Angeles. I know for a fact
his family loves Los Angeles. That dude ain't trying to
move and start a whole nother championship quest all over again. Besides,
don't underestimate the prestige of finishing his career.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
As a Laker.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
His agent, Rich Paul, is doing exactly what any good
agent would do. He's playing a little bit of chicken
with the Lakers to build a strong contender. Now, now,
Lebron usually has a chess move in his back pocket,
but I think this is the one time in his
career where he's kind of out of moves, literally and figuratively.
I'm Jamelle Hill, and I approved this message. Now, I
(06:24):
recently spent a few days at an incredible event that
is the brainchild of today's guests. Now, this woman has
won at every level high school, college, the Olympics, the WNBA,
and now she's winning by being a front office executive.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
In the NBA.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
But among the many things that I admire about her,
it's her tireless efforts to support women. She's created an
amazing platform called She's Got Time, which is about empowering
and supporting women across the sports industry, but also connecting
them with one another. She's Got Time recently held their
annual summit in Las Vegas, and I was blessed to
(06:59):
be a part of it. Now, I met so many
incredible women who are executives and thought leaders in sports.
And on today's episode, she'll explain why she created this
platform and give some other thoughts about her.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
NBA and w NBA experience.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Coming up next on Politics, the Dynamic swin Cash swayn
I want to thank you for joining me here on
this episode of Politics. I'm going to start this episode
by asking a question I ask every guest that appears
on Politics, and that is name an athlete or a
(07:36):
moment that made you love sports?
Speaker 5 (07:39):
Oh oh man, and I should have been prepared for
this one. I would say a moment probably would have
been the the ninety six Olympic team. I think for
the women, I think that probably was a big one.
(08:03):
And I think just because it was here in the US,
and I think an athlete I would have to give
it up for. And this is just gonna sound a
little a little crazy, but probably not too crazy. But
I used to watch a lot of the guys and
(08:23):
I probably was the era that when a WNBA hit
that kind of transitioned to like women. So when they
pulled up on that playground and said like we got next,
when I tell you life was like because for young hoopers,
especially female hoopers, we've done that so many times and
(08:45):
it just like pierced through me and I was like, yes, yes,
this is this is me, this is us, this is now.
And I just think about that. So I can have
to give a lot of credit. I mean Lisa and Swoops,
Rebecca like everyone that really helped start in the foundation
the WNBA that meant something.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
Yeah, that was an amazing campaign and you know that
ninety sixteen that kicked off a lot of stuff. It
was obviously what kind of led to the WNBA happening
because they knew based off that that yes basketball women,
given what the attendance was what the ratings were for
those ninety six games, and watching those women, they knew
(09:21):
for sure that the product would work. The thing that
is among the many remarkable achievements across your career, and
you know, you sit in a very special group of
people who are literally won at every level from high
school to Olympics to the WNBA to college. You won
at every single level. You won a title. But what
(09:42):
is interesting about your background is hearing.
Speaker 4 (09:44):
That you.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Chose basketball, it sounded like, yes, you were good at it,
but it sounded like you chose it out of kind
of necessity, as in, you come from a big family.
Money wouldn't rated all trees like that, and you chose
basketball because you felt like that was the thing you
could best get a scholarship in.
Speaker 5 (10:02):
Is that accurate to say, yeah, that's very accurate. I
think for a lot of kind of kids in my position.
At a very young age, my mom and I would
have Everybody talks about the talk that you have as
a young African American, whether it's male or female, but
the talk we had was based around education. My mom
is like, you know, you're having a lot of fun
(10:23):
right now. We're in eighth grade, Okay, you playing in
the band orchestra, your cheerleading, your basketball, your baseball, all
these things. But we just got I'll never forget it
was what your tall state? We just got something in
the mail and apparently, you know I'm hearing from coaches,
you have an opportunity to get a scholarship. Right away,
the mindset went into what do we need to do
(10:44):
to get a scholarship. So throughout high school I just
focused literally on basketball my education, and it wasn't until
I signed to yukon my senior year I ended up
being able to run track and actually like exhale and
have fun. But that was the mission. You know, we
had a goal as a as a family, my mom
and I, and we were able to achieve.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
It was it always you kind of who else were
you considering beside them?
Speaker 5 (11:12):
Yeah, So a little funny story. I had five schools
because my mom was adamant that I was taking off
five visits and back then you can get up to five.
I'm not sure how many it is right now. And
so you know, Pat's summit actually was in pretty early
and Pat, I'll never forget they called Pat to come
and speak at my high school. And so Pat came
(11:33):
to speak at the banquet, and I still can't even
believe how they got Pat hit summit to go speak
at the banquet, but they did. And so it came
down to it. I was the only player out of
our class that it came down to Tennessee and Yukon,
and I literally made the decision based off the fact
that I wanted to be sure that my family could
(11:54):
be able to watch my games. And at the time,
you know, we were in the Big East. You had
West Virginia, Villanova, and I'm from outside of Pittsburgh, so
that meant a lot to me. And I also knew
I wanted to go into media, and ESPN was right
there in the backyard, and so there was just a
lot of synergy to happen at that time. My mom
made me call Tail and call and tell Pat that
I was not coming.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Yeah. How did that conversation go?
Speaker 5 (12:18):
Yeah, so what a little bit like this, you're making
the wrong I feel you're making the wrong decision. But
I love you and your mother so much that every
time I say, you guys are good with me. And
she stayed true to that. It did not matter if
we were playing in Tennessee at Yukon in a tournament.
Pat would always find my mother. She would find me
(12:39):
and make sure we got hugged, and she said nothing
but kind words. And I respect that. I respected that
from the start to the finish, even when it was
you know, we're trying to go for the two thousand
championship and they're like, oh, Pat and Gino in Philly,
whatstake you going with? I'm like, I'm just grab both,
(13:00):
you know. I definitely had an experience of that back
in the day Yukon Tennessee Robal.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
You know, I'm sure you had, you know, some basketball
dreams obviously within the National Championship those kind of things,
But did you ever see yourself transitioning into being an executive,
you know, in the NBA or just an executive and
basketball period.
Speaker 5 (13:26):
I actually I did kind of a It's really interesting.
So I had been planning my retirements the day I
got drafted to Detroit. Like my mindset, I have had
great mentors, great people in my life that always kind
of kept me thinking about like what's next, how are
we preparing? And so when I was retiring with the
New York Liberty, I had already had a contract set
(13:47):
up to go into television. That was a done deal.
And I'll never forget. At my celebration after my retirement,
after the game, or so many people in town, Isaiah Thomas,
Isaiah Isaiah Isaiah went to my mom and was I
looked over in the corner and I didn't think anything
of it. Then my mom made her way over to
me and she said, you know, Isaiah came and talked
(14:09):
to me. He said, like, your daughter's very right, and
you know, we need to try to figure out how
to keep her to WNBA and create a position or
whatever for her because like her mind about the business side,
and she had these great ideas. She said, you should
think about that. Like I liked what he was talking about,
and I know you And I looked at my mom like,
are you kidding? We've been planning everything out and now
you're throwing this curveball. Long story short, I ended up
(14:33):
taking the television contract still, but Isaiah Thomas and the
New York Liberty created the first position, which was the
director of Franchise Development, and I was the first kind
of player that went into that role highbrid between the
business and the basketball side, and I just was like, wow, Okay,
all these things and ideas I had. Now I have
(14:53):
a way to speak to this side and operations, but
I also understand the different vertical on the business side
and how business is going to kind of cross back
and forth and how it has to flow like that
in order to have success.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
Well, then the thing is, like you before you kind
of transition into the NBA, like you had a great
job in position with the Liberty. So what was it
that made you want to move over the to the NBA.
Speaker 5 (15:22):
It really came down the opportunity. And I'm glad you
asked this question, Jamille, because when I made the decision
to go to the NBA, a lot of people were
why are you doing that? You're here in a W.
What they don't realize is you have to have opportunity
to stay in the W. And so you know, I
was working at the time with David Griffin down at
(15:42):
T and T, and he said to me, Hey, if
I get one of these jobs like, I'm gonna reach
out to you. And that was all the strength of
us talking, having conversations in the grain room about sports
and all of that. When the Liberty got sold to Brooklyn,
there was an opportunity for me to potentially come on board.
Shout out to Kiya Clark CEO because she's over there
killing it. But it was on the business side, and
(16:05):
I said, for me at that point in time in
my career, yeah, I could definitely go over to the
business side, but I feel like I have not only shown,
but have the skill set, knowledge and ability to do
what needs to be done on the operation side as well.
So that opportunity at that point in time was not
there for me, understood not a problem and so I
was able to take the NBA opportunity that was presented
(16:28):
to me. And so it wasn't like I was seeking
out the NBA. It was time place opportunity and we
took advantage of it.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
So on that end, I mean looking around the W now,
how do you think the league has done in terms
of welcoming or at least making these kind of opportunities
available to former players.
Speaker 5 (16:49):
Yeah, I am not happy with where it is right now.
I know recently had a conversation with Lisa and talking
about her experience and to become a head coach to
the W and it just it just really didn't sit
well with me. And you know the biggest thing for
me is is that throughout my whole career. You always
(17:10):
you're going to spring board to something new, but you
always have to pay respect to the ones that also
built the foundation and the ones that have the skill set,
the knowledge and the ability to do the jobs. I
don't believe in this thing that you know former players
come in and they're not ready. That's one of the
things that people use as a way to keep people out.
(17:32):
If you really want to be inclusive, as I believe
the w has been forever and wants to be, then
you have to open up those opportunities. Adiah Thomas didn't
go to my mom and say, you know, swim has
ran this many you know she went from manager, senior manager, here, here,
and now she's ready for a director position. He went
and said, I saw this in her. I want to
(17:54):
give her the opportunity. That is all a lot of
women are asking for. Give that opportunity and then watch
them be able to grow. And also, don't just give
the opportunity to say yay, we did it, and then
you have the shortest amount of leash for somebody that's
been in this league helping build this league that's trying
to grow. You don't put the resources around them. You
(18:15):
don't give them the things that they need to have success,
but then you're ready to kept bait and just go
for the shiny object over here. I don't believe in that,
and that's why for me, I'm so invested in women
in their careers in sports, because they have to understand
how to surround themselves not only would a good tribe,
but the resources to prepare for any opportunity and maybe
ahead of them.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
You mentioned something key and important about Lisa as in
Lisa Leslie's experience, you know, she talked about how she
was up for two jobs, didn't get them, and she
pretty much said she was done interviewing in the W
four a head coaching position. A pretty I think embarrassing
statistic I stumbled upon for this particular season is that
there's only one black woman who's a head coach in
(18:55):
the W right now. What is happening there? From your
active is this a matter of interest opportunity?
Speaker 5 (19:02):
Like?
Speaker 1 (19:02):
What is going on because a league that is seventy
percent black, it should seem like that should never be
the case.
Speaker 5 (19:10):
Yeah, I'm not really sure. I don't have an answer
for that, Jamil, but I am just as curious as
you are. I would love to have more conversations. Obviously
a lot of the owners I've had relationships with and
continue to have relationships with, and those questions I feel
like need to be asked, like how are we going
about our hiring process? And you don't want to ever
(19:33):
get to a point where we're looking at a potential
Rooney rule in the WNBA, like that should never be
even a thought at all. But maybe as times are changing,
as pressure is coming in even more and more teams
being added, more valuations going up, people tend to sometimes
go after what could possibly be like headline or safe
(19:57):
bits and different things. But it's because the safe bets
usually exclude women and minorities a lot of the time.
And we just think, as a league, and I say
we because I care about the w so much, is
that have to do a better job and it has
to be accountability and so I think, you know, from
the top, from Kathy on down to the owners, there
really needs to be more discussion around that.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
Yeah, how concerned are you as somebody who you know
still very much is a member of that league you
played there, you know, I think it would always be
part of your membership of being in the w But
how concerned are you as there's these new owners, new
influx of cash, new opportunities, new eyeballs, are you concerned
that women will begin to be sort of pushed out
(20:44):
of the thing that they built.
Speaker 5 (20:47):
My hope is that when you're doing the background on
bringing on these new owners, that there are certain criteria
and stipulations that come with you getting a w NBA team.
How are you going to go about your hiring process.
How are you trying to be connected to the community.
It's not just a money graph. This is a bill.
It's good business, but it also should be about all
(21:09):
the things that are important to these women who are
the product that go out there and play on the court.
And so, speaking with a few of the new owners
that are actually coming in, I've liked how some of
them have been very aggressive. We could obviously the Valkyries
you go to them right away, but I like how
they have been aggressive not only with how they're going
(21:30):
to resource the team, but also start looking at some
of those cap tables Like that tells you a lot too.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
You spent six years with the Pelicans in the front office.
When you began working with NBA players on a I mean,
obviously you knew NBA players, but like working in the
culture of the NBA on a day to day basis
what I guess, what did you have to adapt to,
What did you have to get used to that was
(21:58):
different about how they do things in the NBA versus
what you were used to.
Speaker 5 (22:02):
Well, it was a lot more money from ANBA, you know.
And I say that, let me say, let me take
a step back. I came from New York, so I
will give a shout out to MSG because we did
have the resources we needed. Now towards the end with
the transition happening, it is what it is. But I
(22:25):
would I would see just from team to team, not
just you know, our team, but everything's different. How much
money you're getting on the road for food, how many
resources are offered to you. So those things were immediately
like hmm okay. But the biggest glaring thing is is
that I was the players and I were fine. There's
(22:47):
not a player that came through here that you couldn't
have a conversation with and they probably would tell you
like swe and I were good because I came in
very authentic of I'm coming in from an athlete position position,
because I've been with you where you're at right now,
and I've also been where you're trying to get to.
That's one and then two. Being very transparent and leading
(23:08):
with truth makes it easier for somebody. Whether you cursed
me out for that day and be mad about everything,
you're gonna come back. You're gonna get this little hug,
this little jab, we're gonna be good, and we're gonna
keep it moving. It's like, you know, teammates, And so
I approached it from that standpoint, and that was always fine.
I think where I had to learn, what I had
to learn quickly was that when you come into a
(23:29):
space and sometimes former athletes and you may have a
resume like I did, you tend to think because you're
a teammate, you're just like, Okay, everybody's cool, we're gonna
get together. But what you failed to realize and what
I had to adapt to really quickly, is some people
have this has been their only career, they've only been
in the NBA, and they've been scratching and clawing and
(23:50):
get ahead. And I'm coming in from a vice president's
standpoint being like, okay, well, here's how I kind of
see it and people look at you and not only
your woman you're a black woman, but also why do
you have that title that I'm trying to get to.
And so instead of taking the approach of let me
just you know, come in and lay the hammer down,
I started taking people out individually, like letting people get.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
To know me.
Speaker 5 (24:14):
And it's weird because a lot of times people would
just you think people are going to give you the
benefit of the doubt. But forming relationships was the biggest
thing that I learned in year one that I had
to do and move quickly on.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
I think a lot of people, of course, they see
more women, especially more former WNBA players, frankly being in
these front office positions, even getting experience as coaches, they
assume that you're in an environment where potentially men won't
respect you as much just because of what your background
(24:50):
is or just being a black woman.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
So what would you what would you say or how
would you.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
Describe your experience in terms of what that dynamic was like?
Here you are a woman who's a former WNBA player,
who's got all the things on her resume. Did you
find yourself was it at all difficult to get the
players respect or is that part of it overblown?
Speaker 5 (25:14):
It's very overblown, And I want to say this on
your show because people need to stop using tools to
keep them in positions and not to cross the NBA
or anywhere else. There is not a problem where if
you're telling me that a woman coming into a male
space means that, oh my goodness, he's going to rage out,
something's going to happen. It's the boys club, dude. The
(25:36):
problem with that is is that then you should be
having more resources to help the guide this in that
situation than worried about the female because I believe, and
I believe this is the day that we even hired
Teresa Witherspon, is that hiring women is good business because
diversity of thought in your room is important. Like, we're
not living in a society where it's just the men
(25:57):
are over here making all the decisions. Now, well, let's
leave government out of it, but we're not in a
society right now where men are just over here making
all the decisions and everything. Like, we have to be
honest about the environments we're creating for these young men
with skill sets. They're just trying to get better. An
athlete does not care if it's coming from a male
(26:17):
or female. Can you help me get better? Can you
help me get to the bat? Can you help me
build my brand? Like these are real questions, And what
I find a lot is that people tend to create
and keep saying these different stereotypes in order to keep
people out.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Yeah, it seemed like that seemed to be a major
kind of roadblock that people have and saying that, like, oh,
you know, the reason why we won't see women coaching
or women in these roles is because a.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Man will never you know, that's an NBA player will
never accept her opinion.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
And it sounds like you have the opposite experience, as
you said, like most of the guys just want to
get better. How did you feel about how Zion has
been covered in the media.
Speaker 5 (27:04):
Yeah, so it bothered me a lot at different times.
And I think it bothered me more because I saw
the way that it became a tool for click bait
more than it was a critique of the player. Like
I knew some of the people on air that would
(27:25):
be screaming or going in on him, and it'd be
the same people that we would reach out to him
be like, yo, do you want to have a conversation
we're coming in town behind closed doors. But you know
that wasn't really everything wanted to be public instead of
behind closed doors. Now, granted, and Zion knows this and
he's talked about it as well. He had to own
(27:48):
some of the things that also came out or some
of the ways that he has been and so I
think he did that. But for me internally being able
to watch a player's growth, part of my job is
to speak to speak truth to your situation and then
try to provide any resources or opportunities with your team
(28:09):
that's around you in order to help you be better.
And so you know, I didn't like that part, but
I will say this, Jamelle. I think opportunities like that
it either makes a player stronger or it's going to
affect you in a way where you won't be able
to get over it. And I do believe that Zion
has the ability to come out and play, to stay healthy,
(28:32):
stay on the court, and just prove people wrong. And
that's how that type of approach that I would take
as a player is just come out and be consistent
and then all that goes away. But it's unfortunate that
so much would would have to be brought on somebody
at the time that was twenty years old, you know,
and it can be frustrating, But when you're in a
(28:52):
position that I was in, it's really about, Okay, how
do we as a team, how do we, as like
with his agency, with his family, figure out what's the
best step forward instead of looking backwards.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
So from what you can see, how much was he
sort of impacted psychologically by how the media often portrayed him.
Speaker 5 (29:15):
Yeah, I can't speak for you know where he was
from a psychological standpoint. I think that's you know, his
story to tell whenever he feels he wants to kind
of talk about it. I would just say for me,
from a psychological standpoint, it was tough because I know
how difficult it already is to be young, black successful
(29:39):
within kind of not only the country but in the
world right and when you open up when it's other
people that look like you that are opening up these
critiques that are not about your game but everything else
around it, when pictures are getting shown and all those things,
that can be tough. So for me it was hard
(30:00):
because I'm in protection mode, like I care about these guys,
I'm with them day and day in the thick of it.
You know, I had one time somebody call me and
be like, oh, you know what's going on down there?
So and so is looking like this and looking like that.
One thing you will always know about me and no
one will ever be able to say, is you will
not hear somebody say, well, swin set, X, Y and
(30:21):
Z six years, have you heard my name or seen
my name in the media? Has it come up with
any of these breaking news reporters. We don't move like that,
never moved like that. You can't be in a foxhole
with somebody and also at the same time giving out
information and trying to throw people under the bus if
(30:42):
I'm not doing my job. Look, we take jobs in sports,
especially in front office, understanding that we're probably going to
get fired or removed in X amount of years. Right,
you get two runs at it. Cool, but you have
to understand how the cycle works. And whenever I was
told about of leaving the job here in New Orleans,
(31:03):
I never forget this, Jamail. I had somebody in another
front office call me said, if you ever need anything,
all I want to do is call and tell you
I respect the hell out of you because you never
heard a lot of people knew different things that were happening.
We never heard your name, not even on a trail
scouting wherever the Swin set X Y and Z and
I said, and you never will because that's just how
(31:26):
that's how we move. And unfortunately, women we know how
to move really well like that, don't we, Jamail, We do.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
We often are not given enough credit for how we
were able to do that. But as I have often
said before, with certain people, I was like they needed
to take my silence as a gift, So.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
Please do that absolutely well.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
Listen, there's a lot more I want to ask you
about a swin, especially about She's Got Time, the platform
that you founded that is doing some remarkable things and
the major event that you have coming up in Vegas.
Want to definitely dive into that and a couple other
WNBA issues, But we're going to take a very quick
break and we'll be right back with more with Swain
Cash Twin. You had mentioned earlier in this podcast, you
(32:20):
talked about just sort of the dynamics that you face
in a professional setting and these executive settings as a woman,
and you have created this wonderful platform, She's Got Time,
which is kind of a blend of just storytelling but
also a summit that you're having in Vegas, like really
being able to put women in contact with one another
across the sports industry and.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
Also to empower them. So give me the reason.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Why you felt like it was important for you to
develop this kind of platform that helped women who are
pursuing and within careers.
Speaker 5 (32:52):
Since ya, thank you for that question, because I love
She's got time. It's been near and dear to my heart.
So in twenty twenty two, when I was going to
Nations Basketball Hall of Fame, I took a couple of
months to really kind of writen out the speech and
thank you for your participation help with that as well
just making that a special day for myself. But I
was thinking about how I could be more intentional. I
(33:14):
felt like one door was closing, and a lot of
times that I'm not sure you get this. You get
hundreds of women being like, hey can you be a
mentor young people, Hey I need this, I need that.
And I realized, like having children also having a career,
like your time is very limited, and so I felt
like I wanted to create this ecosystem that could really
(33:35):
bring women together in an authentic way, an intentional way
to have access, Like we want to help women scale
their careers in sports, and the only way to do
that is to put you on run with people in
close proximity that maybe deals can be done, opportunities can
be met. And I didn't see that happening with a
lot of women that looked like me. And so when
(33:57):
we went back to the drawing board, I went to
my husband and I said, look, I have this idea
and this concept God is really put on my heart
and I want to be intentional about how we are
including women, how we're servicing women, how we're building community.
Can you help me? He looked at me and he said,
you must be serious because you don't ask me for anything,
(34:18):
and so I said, I'm absolutely serious. So we went
about the hiring process and we hired people and I
knew I was an executive at the time, and we
put people in position to build this company. So we
are a media and lifestyle company. Yes, we focus on storytelling.
We have our media arm and we're continuing to grow that.
We have our irls like are something that's going to
be in Vegas. So be our first year in Vegas.
(34:39):
We were intentional the last two years we had it
in New Orleans, but we wanted to bring it over
NBA Summer League to Vegas. Knowing that we had all
thirty teams in Vegas, shout out to NFL in WSL,
all the other people that actually raised their hand and
said hey, we're going to show up as well. And
then also the third piece of that is just really
our community in our app. You have an app, you
(35:00):
can know that she's got time and downloaded and joined
that community. And so this isn't about it's less about
me and more about us. And I've had great mentors.
You've had some great mentors to Jamail, but there are
a lot of women out there navigating. Whether you're a
OG like Amy Trash at the c suite level, or
you're an ustry level, you're an influencer, you're behind the camera,
(35:20):
you're coming in to media, and you want to have
that tribe or that sisterhood. We're trying to create that
for you.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
It's interesting to me that during the time as you're
doing she's got time, you know, noting that like the
number of NBA teams and the number of what would
be traditionally, you know, male environments. The NBA, the NFL,
these other sports are hiring more women and especially former
athletes to come in to their system, and you know, obviously,
(35:49):
you know, sort of grace it with their own you know,
intelligence and background and everything experience that they have. So
why do you think, in particular in the NBA, that
hiring former WNBA players for positions like the one you had,
and again you weren't the only one. Why do you
think that's become more attractive to some teams?
Speaker 5 (36:06):
First, I think society kind of had a wake up
call for us. I think through kind of what happened
with George Floyd. I think people said, wait a minute,
we've been doing the same things. How can we be different?
So that was an opportunity. I don't look at that
as a bad thing. I look at it, Okay, every
time you're doing a kind of gut check and evaluation
of yourself, how can we be better? So when the
(36:27):
opportunity presented itself for women like me, it's good business.
Like I am so sick of hearing people talk about, oh,
we want to support women, we want to get this
woman in here. It ain't charity, do you know how
many sharp women there are that can run many people
that I know in this industry. Like that's the part
that really is just mind boggling to me, is that
(36:50):
you should want to have good business, and good business
means diversity of thought in your room. If I'm an owner,
if I'm a team president. I said this to David Griffin,
who was my boss for six years. I say, you
get paid to make the decision. I get paid to evaluate,
to see how we can scale, how we can be better,
but more resources, I'm going to give you everything that
I think you should know. Once you make the decision,
(37:12):
we move. And that's just how I operate, because one
day when I sit in that chair, I'm hoping the
people around me and the executive team or the leadership
that I build, they're diverse to not to give me
that feedback. And you can't tell me that if there's
all men that is in the room and there's not
a woman that she, you couldn't have gotten a different
thought or maybe a better way to think about something.
(37:35):
So as an entrepreneur, I look at it and say
the same thing I do as an entrepreneurs, the same
thing I want to do in an NBA office, a
WNBA office. I want the diversity of thought because it's
a good business.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
You know.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
Speaking of good business, I mean clearly it's become really
good business in the WNBA and that could not be.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
Illustrated better by expansion.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
And naturally, you know, I have to ask you about
how you feel about the fact that Detroit is getting
it's w NBA team back. It's a team that you know,
you won championships with the Detroit Shock which now which
became the Dallas Wings.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
But that's the story for another day.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
But nevertheless, you know, you know us Detroit as we
love you because of what you built in Detroit and
now seeing the team get or seeing the city get
the team back, how did that make you feel seeing
that Detroit will will have a team again.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
I believe it.
Speaker 5 (38:25):
Yeah, it just it warmed my heart. It really did,
because I'm gonna tell you, Jamil, I would come through Detroit,
whether I was traveling through from the airport, traveling with
the team going back to play the Pistons. There's not
one person that wouldn't pull up on me like, what's
up when we get our team back? What you're doing,
how you involved? And I'm like I'm working in there,
like no, no, no, no, how we get our team back,
(38:45):
and so it was really just for me, you know,
heartwarming shout out to arn Tellem, Tom Gores everyone. If
you haven't looked when I said earlier in the podcast,
look at people's cap table. That'll tell you the direction
you're trying to go in. And I think what they
formed there in Detroit is people who actually care not
only about the business of the w but like how
(39:08):
this is going to blossop into even more. And so yes,
I am excited for the whole city. Everybody in my
DMS yelling what up though, I get it, I get it.
I'm happy for the city.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
Don't be popping again.
Speaker 5 (39:22):
And so yeah, just it really is a true feat
for the city of Detroit. They have the team bat.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
Now, a lot of people don't know that Detroit won
three titles in I believe six years. Still believe that
the Shock are the only professional sports team to go
from last place to winning a title the very next year,
something you never see obviously in major professional sports. How
(39:50):
do you feel as if the Shock were remembered Like
I said this, and you can tell me if I'm wrong.
I think the Shock have the most disrespected WNBA legacy
of all the dynasties that have happened in the WNBA.
Like you, when they're talking about the WNA dynasties, of
course they bring up the sparks, they bring up the links,
they bring up the comets.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
You do not hear the shot.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
So I mean, am I just say my feelings because
I'm a Detroiter. How do you think the shots legacy
has been remembered in sort of the WNBA.
Speaker 5 (40:23):
No, you are not in your feelings. You are absolutely right.
And I would say this before the team even came back.
It was very short sighted from a standpoint that because
the team moved, it was easier to just kind of
not talk about them, but to be honest with you,
when we were winning, it was kind of the dismissive,
Oh when they played too rough, they do this. It
(40:44):
was always something. But those banners still went up. And
that's what I really don't even understand, is like, if
that's going to be the case, then shout out to Detroit.
It's about time to tell your own story because obviously
we have some young people that may not use Google
as much. The need to start doing that because there's
(41:05):
teams from the Huston Commets all the way up that
have won. There's been dynasties and you have to put
Detroit in that. But I think when you don't see
it as much, it's easy to fade to the background.
So that's why I say, like, maybe it's time to
start telling those stories, because that I'm telling you to
play in funding almost twenty two thousand in the Palace
(41:25):
to come back from La, I have to getting our
spaces smacked. And I tell Lisa I messed with least
all the time. They came back up in there smooth
like we're about to get number three? Have our dynasty?
What's up? And I listened, I'm not even gonna get
into it, but your girl, we didn't sleep. I was
in an Exera road from LA to Detroit. Didn't sleep,
was pacing, paysing. We had to win two games in
(41:48):
Detroit and we pulled up and we were able to win.
So like, it's the storytelling around it. And I really hope,
you know, as she's got time continues to build that
we're in position to continue to tell those stories as well.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
Yeah, I had Kandas S Parker as a guest on
politics a few weeks ago, and naturally I asked her
about the fight between Sparks where Candas was a rookie
and Candess almost got locked up.
Speaker 2 (42:15):
Good old Peningte Pierson and Resting.
Speaker 5 (42:17):
It was. So it's so much that's there, from the
identity to how it was built to like it. I
will say this the team coming back to Detroit. There's
some people that still in the radio station shout out
the Bushman and everybody else. When I tell you the culture,
(42:38):
the culture of Detroit. When a shock where there and
I got drafted there and we were like, we're turning
this thing around. Everybody pulled up. I mean everybody from
court side to our games. We would go out in
the community. It was it was Pistons, shop, Lions, everybody,
whether we in the same club, whether in sat restaurants like.
It was that type of family dynamic that really brought
(43:01):
the sports town where it was at that point in time.
And so I really hope that those days can kind
of come on back. And it was popping even some
this year. You know that being at the Pistons game
in downtown now, so that's a little different than that dynamic.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
Yeah, I think that's what's actually gonna be even more encouraging.
It's like they'll get to play downtown. And Detroit has
always been a great sports city, despite what Sophie Cunningham
may think. You know, the shock even yeah the Shaka
you I mean they were in the top five, and
attendance set a record for like most attended finals game,
I mean, like a lot of attendance record because of
(43:37):
how the city is supported. All right, so when to
wrap this up? Wrap up every podcast with what I
call a messy question. This is the question where we
make the blogs. This is where we get all the
tweet big headlines. This is where it happens. All right,
what will we see first? This is the messy question.
What will we see first a woman being the head coach,
(43:59):
being a head coach of an NBA team, or a
w NBA player making a million dollars this season.
Speaker 5 (44:11):
It's a messy question, but I'm that's I think we
will Yeah, we will see. Unfortunately, there's still a lot
of work to do from the coaching standpoint in the
n B A shout out to Jenny Bousig that that
has been kind of making her way in the ranks.
(44:33):
We'll see a WNB A player make a million dollars.
Speaker 2 (44:37):
Mm hmmm. Actually, you know, I'm really surprised you said that.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
I thought you'd say the other direction, and only because
like you look at like you know, obviously Becky Hammond
was was in the league.
Speaker 2 (44:47):
You look at the Indiana Pacers.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
I mean their defense was designed basically by a woman coach.
And it feels like, especially I guess if you're hearing
the what is in the conversation around the CBA that
is about to be negotiated between the players, the WNBA
players in the league, I know it won't I'm not
hopeful it will happen this CBA, so it may take
(45:13):
another four or five six years.
Speaker 2 (45:15):
For things to happen.
Speaker 1 (45:17):
I was like, I could see, especially if you got
the Knicks, who already said they talked to Don Staley.
I could see that happening before you actually had a
WNBA player making a million dollars.
Speaker 5 (45:29):
In So let me say this to you when you
go through the hiring process and being interestingly involved in
that on the NBA side, I said this from my
standpoint of, you know, as I was continuing to grow
and wanting to eventually become president of basketball operations or
(45:49):
the top spot is that it's going to take one
owner that is not worried about can lead. How are
the men going to feel, what's the locker room situation
going to be, what's this going to be? Because I
think at that the belly part of the NBA, there's
(46:10):
a lot of people that continue those conversations going that
it starts feeding upwards and starts feeding downwards. And so
you'll hear women's name in conversation for jobs, but are
they their name just in it or have they really
been considered? That is what we have to get to,
is like the consideration of let me not do this
(46:31):
for the headlines, but let me do this because this
is actually what I think we really need for our organization.
I think that you are the one, and I think
it's going to take one owner to be able to
do that. As many of these NBA teams that are
getting bought right now, I do think that there are
more ownership ownership groups that are coming in that may
(46:53):
have an appetite for that, but I do feel there's
a lot of work still to be done.
Speaker 1 (46:57):
Well, we'll see which one happens first. Naturally, I hope
the ladies get of course for sure. But anyway, Swinn,
thank you so much for joining me. Really appreciate it
and really honored that you have me as part of
She's got time, being able to spend some time in Vegas,
and of course fellowship with all the other women that
you've been able to bring together. So really grateful for
(47:19):
your platform because it's something that we can.
Speaker 2 (47:21):
All look to if we want to find each other.
Speaker 1 (47:24):
We know where we are, so it's like that fellowship
is really meaningful and important.
Speaker 5 (47:28):
So thank you so much for that. We are looking
forward to having you in Vegas, and we are also
are looking forward to launching our first race for our
company and actually going global. So we have some announcements
coming at the summit, so stay tuned.
Speaker 1 (47:41):
Ooh okay, okay, I can't wait to hear it, all right,
thanks whin. One more segment to go coming up next,
the Final Spin. Now, usually this point of the podcast
(48:05):
is reserved for the Final Spin, but I thought it
would be more appropriate to use this time to express
some very sincere gratitude. Now, I learned this week that
the Netflix documentary Simone Boles Rising has been nominated for
an Emmy. Now, this is a doct that I was
blessed to serve on as a producer and writer.
Speaker 2 (48:21):
I was so honored at Religion of Sports, a global.
Speaker 1 (48:24):
Media company that has produced incredible documentaries Tom Brady, Serena Williams,
and even John bond Jovi.
Speaker 2 (48:30):
They invited me to be part of this project.
Speaker 1 (48:32):
Now, when you produce anything, you just try to do
the best work possible, not necessarily with awards in mind.
Speaker 2 (48:39):
But with quality in mind.
Speaker 1 (48:41):
So I can't tell you all what it means to
me to have this Simone Biles docuseries nominated for such
a prestigious award and to be a part of telling
the story of one of the greatest athletes in history.
So thank you Simone Boles, and thank you Religion US Sports.
Already got one Emmy, and if I get another one,
y'all won't be able to make eye.
Speaker 2 (48:59):
Contact with me for another year. I promise you.
Speaker 1 (49:02):
This concludes another episode of Politics. I'm at Jamail Hill.
Across all social media platforms Twitter, Instagram, fan based, Blue
Scott and threads, please use the hashtags politics, but you
also have the option of emailing me a question or
a comment that you might have As Politics twenty twenty
four at gmail dot com. You can also video me
that question or comment, but please make sure it is
(49:22):
thirty seconds or less. Don't forget to follow and subscribe
to his politics on iHeart and also follows Politics pod
on Instagram and TikTok. Politics is spelled sbo l I Tics.
A new episode of Politics drops every Thursday on iHeart
Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. This is politics
(49:43):
where sports and politics don't just mix, they matter. Politics
is the production of iHeart Podcasts and the Unbothered Network.
I'm your host Jamail Hill. Executive producer is Taylor Shakoin.
Lucas Hyman is head of audio and executive producer. Original
(50:04):
music First Politics provided by Kyle VISs from wiz FX
Hey, what's up everybody. I'm Jamel Hill and welcome to
his politics. And I heard podcasts and unbothered production time
to get spolitical. I've been in Los Angeles for seven
years now. It's the sixth city I've lived in, and
(00:22):
in my big age, I can be honest about something.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
It's tied boss.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Now you get to a certain age and all that
moving and shaking doesn't move and shake.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
You like it used to. Which is why I am
not the tiniest big concern that.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Lebron James won't finish his career as a Los Angeles
Lakers despite all of the reports we've been hearing about
how he's sow in his feelings about the Lakers shifting
the franchise's focus to Luka Doncic, that is even remotely
possible that he won't finish his.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Career in Los Angeles.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Now, throughout his career, Lebron has done a masterful job
of using his leverage to apply the maximum pressure to
a franchise to make sure they don't waste any of
his precious years not competing for a championship. Now, any
team that signs Lebron should know that his unofficial model
that he's there for a good time and not necessarily
a long time. But as soon as the reports started
that the NBA's all time leading scorer was possibly planning
(01:18):
an exit from the Lakers, you know what I did,
ring ring hello?
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Is this bullshit? Can I speak to the manager police?
That's right? I called bullshit.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Now in my mind, people read entirely too much. And
to his agent Rich Paul's statement last month, which came
after Lebron opted into a fifty two point six million
dollar contract option, here's what Paul said. Lebron knows the
Lakers are building for the future, and he also wants
to compete for championships. We understand the difficulty in winning
(01:49):
now while preparing for the future.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
We do not want to.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Evaluate what's best for Lebron at this stage in his
life and career. Because Rich Paul didn't give the defenditi
if he's all the in statement, Suddenly every debate show
and every talk show had a story they could ride
out until the football season started.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
Lebron could very well leave LA for another team, He
might retire, and he might even just buy a team
to play with his sons. If Lebron somehow actually left
the Lakers. There are just three teams he would realistically
go to. I want to break down exactly how each
of those would work. But is he actually serious this time?
I mean, we have heard Lebron Mike NOI so many times,
but actually this does feel different because dude picked up
(02:31):
his fifty two point six million dollar player option, which
has literally never happened. Kybron always renegotiates an add on
another player option year, has never in his twenty two
years been on an expiring contract until now, so we
already knew that something was up. But then his agent
Rich Paul said, Lebron knows the Lakers are building for
the future, and he also wants to compete for championships.
(02:54):
We understand the difficulty of winning now while preparing for
the future, so we want to value it. What's best
for Lebron at this year, his life and career. Oh
the passive aggressive Lebron statement. It's a classic.
Speaker 4 (03:05):
Where is the fastest, easiest path to the NBA Finals
for Lebron James, It's the place he has avoided his
entire career. That's right, everybody, It's right here in New York.
Oh boy, I want to say, I dare him my
double dog dare him, Like, if you really really believe
in all the words you're saying right there, the one
place that you know you could go. All you have
(03:27):
to do is say it, Sing it if you want,
like Sinatra, New York, New York.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Guys, guys, look, I get it.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
We're in that summertime law where there's not a whole
lot going on on the sports calendar. Everybody is trying
to just thug it out until football season or until
football training camps open. But this is the biggest non
story on the docket. Lebron ain't going nowhere. If Lebron
wanted to go somewhere, he would have never opted in.
(03:53):
If he was really about that, I'm about to leave
the Lakers life and go somewhere else to compete for
a championship this very second. All he had to do
was leave the fifty million dollars right on the table.
Now we've seen Rich Paul say similar things in the past,
but to be honest, Lebron had more leverage stand The
Lakers are trying to as gently as possible move on
(04:14):
and focus on building around their next superstar, which is
Luka Doncic.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Despite being forty years old.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Lebron is still that guy, but it would be absolutely
crazy for the Lakers to focus they're planning on building
around a player who has what two seasons max. That's
not being disrespectful, that is just reality and as valuable
as Lebron James still is, the way the league is
now a championship level team, trading for him would be
(04:41):
very difficult to pull off. Take for example, the team
that people often say would be a perfect landing spot
for Lebron his former team, Cleveland. But Cleveland can't trade
for him because they are over the second Apron and
they don't have a player on the roster making the
same amount as Lebron.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
The math don't math.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
The way that could happen is if Lebron would have
chosen not to pick up his player option.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
The Lakers could buy Lebron out, but for who?
Speaker 5 (05:08):
For what?
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Lebron is still a very productive player. You gonna buy
him out just so he can go win with somebody else?
Doesn't make sense for them, especially since they still see
themselves as one of the clusters of teams that could
win or compete in the West, and at this point
in his career, any team that trades for Lebron. Would
have to think is it worth it blowing up my
team when I could maybe squeeze a year or two
(05:32):
out of Lebron? Again, no disrespect, but is it really
worth it to do that?
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Probably not.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
But let me get back to what I said in
the beginning about being tired. I know for a fact
that Lebron loves Los Angeles. I know for a fact
his family loves Los Angeles. That dude ain't trying to
move and start a whole nother championship quest all over again. Besides,
don't underestimate the prestige of finishing his career.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
As a Laker.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
His agent, Rich Paul, is doing exactly what any good
agent would do. He's playing a little bit of chicken
with the Lakers to build a strong contender. Now, now,
Lebron usually has a chess move in his back pocket,
but I think this is the one time in his
career where he's kind of out of moves, literally and figuratively.
I'm Jamelle Hill, and I approved this message. Now, I
(06:24):
recently spent a few days at an incredible event that
is the brainchild of today's guests. Now, this woman has
won at every level high school, college, the Olympics, the WNBA,
and now she's winning by being a front office executive.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
In the NBA.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
But among the many things that I admire about her,
it's her tireless efforts to support women. She's created an
amazing platform called She's Got Time, which is about empowering
and supporting women across the sports industry, but also connecting
them with one another. She's Got Time recently held their
annual summit in Las Vegas, and I was blessed to
(06:59):
be a part of it. Now, I met so many
incredible women who are executives and thought leaders in sports.
And on today's episode, she'll explain why she created this
platform and give some other thoughts about her.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
NBA and w NBA experience.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Coming up next on Politics, the Dynamic swin Cash swayn
I want to thank you for joining me here on
this episode of Politics. I'm going to start this episode
by asking a question I ask every guest that appears
on Politics, and that is name an athlete or a
(07:36):
moment that made you love sports?
Speaker 5 (07:39):
Oh oh man, and I should have been prepared for
this one. I would say a moment probably would have
been the the ninety six Olympic team. I think for
the women, I think that probably was a big one.
(08:03):
And I think just because it was here in the US,
and I think an athlete I would have to give
it up for. And this is just gonna sound a
little a little crazy, but probably not too crazy. But
I used to watch a lot of the guys and
(08:23):
I probably was the era that when a WNBA hit
that kind of transitioned to like women. So when they
pulled up on that playground and said like we got next,
when I tell you life was like because for young hoopers,
especially female hoopers, we've done that so many times and
(08:45):
it just like pierced through me and I was like, yes, yes,
this is this is me, this is us, this is now.
And I just think about that. So I can have
to give a lot of credit. I mean Lisa and Swoops,
Rebecca like everyone that really helped start in the foundation
the WNBA that meant something.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
Yeah, that was an amazing campaign and you know that
ninety sixteen that kicked off a lot of stuff. It
was obviously what kind of led to the WNBA happening
because they knew based off that that yes basketball women,
given what the attendance was what the ratings were for
those ninety six games, and watching those women, they knew
(09:21):
for sure that the product would work. The thing that
is among the many remarkable achievements across your career, and
you know, you sit in a very special group of
people who are literally won at every level from high
school to Olympics to the WNBA to college. You won
at every single level. You won a title. But what
(09:42):
is interesting about your background is hearing.
Speaker 4 (09:44):
That you.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Chose basketball, it sounded like, yes, you were good at it,
but it sounded like you chose it out of kind
of necessity, as in, you come from a big family.
Money wouldn't rated all trees like that, and you chose
basketball because you felt like that was the thing you
could best get a scholarship in.
Speaker 5 (10:02):
Is that accurate to say, yeah, that's very accurate. I
think for a lot of kind of kids in my position.
At a very young age, my mom and I would
have Everybody talks about the talk that you have as
a young African American, whether it's male or female, but
the talk we had was based around education. My mom
is like, you know, you're having a lot of fun
(10:23):
right now. We're in eighth grade, Okay, you playing in
the band orchestra, your cheerleading, your basketball, your baseball, all
these things. But we just got I'll never forget it
was what your tall state? We just got something in
the mail and apparently, you know I'm hearing from coaches,
you have an opportunity to get a scholarship. Right away,
the mindset went into what do we need to do
(10:44):
to get a scholarship. So throughout high school I just
focused literally on basketball my education, and it wasn't until
I signed to yukon my senior year I ended up
being able to run track and actually like exhale and
have fun. But that was the mission. You know, we
had a goal as a as a family, my mom
and I, and we were able to achieve.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
It was it always you kind of who else were
you considering beside them?
Speaker 5 (11:12):
Yeah, So a little funny story. I had five schools
because my mom was adamant that I was taking off
five visits and back then you can get up to five.
I'm not sure how many it is right now. And
so you know, Pat's summit actually was in pretty early
and Pat, I'll never forget they called Pat to come
and speak at my high school. And so Pat came
(11:33):
to speak at the banquet, and I still can't even
believe how they got Pat hit summit to go speak
at the banquet, but they did. And so it came
down to it. I was the only player out of
our class that it came down to Tennessee and Yukon,
and I literally made the decision based off the fact
that I wanted to be sure that my family could
(11:54):
be able to watch my games. And at the time,
you know, we were in the Big East. You had
West Virginia, Villanova, and I'm from outside of Pittsburgh, so
that meant a lot to me. And I also knew
I wanted to go into media, and ESPN was right
there in the backyard, and so there was just a
lot of synergy to happen at that time. My mom
made me call Tail and call and tell Pat that
I was not coming.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Yeah. How did that conversation go?
Speaker 5 (12:18):
Yeah, so what a little bit like this, you're making
the wrong I feel you're making the wrong decision. But
I love you and your mother so much that every
time I say, you guys are good with me. And
she stayed true to that. It did not matter if
we were playing in Tennessee at Yukon in a tournament.
Pat would always find my mother. She would find me
(12:39):
and make sure we got hugged, and she said nothing
but kind words. And I respect that. I respected that
from the start to the finish, even when it was
you know, we're trying to go for the two thousand
championship and they're like, oh, Pat and Gino in Philly,
whatstake you going with? I'm like, I'm just grab both,
(13:00):
you know. I definitely had an experience of that back
in the day Yukon Tennessee Robal.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
You know, I'm sure you had, you know, some basketball
dreams obviously within the National Championship those kind of things,
But did you ever see yourself transitioning into being an executive,
you know, in the NBA or just an executive and
basketball period.
Speaker 5 (13:26):
I actually I did kind of a It's really interesting.
So I had been planning my retirements the day I
got drafted to Detroit. Like my mindset, I have had
great mentors, great people in my life that always kind
of kept me thinking about like what's next, how are
we preparing? And so when I was retiring with the
New York Liberty, I had already had a contract set
(13:47):
up to go into television. That was a done deal.
And I'll never forget. At my celebration after my retirement,
after the game, or so many people in town, Isaiah Thomas,
Isaiah Isaiah Isaiah went to my mom and was I
looked over in the corner and I didn't think anything
of it. Then my mom made her way over to
me and she said, you know, Isaiah came and talked
(14:09):
to me. He said, like, your daughter's very right, and
you know, we need to try to figure out how
to keep her to WNBA and create a position or
whatever for her because like her mind about the business side,
and she had these great ideas. She said, you should
think about that. Like I liked what he was talking about,
and I know you And I looked at my mom like,
are you kidding? We've been planning everything out and now
you're throwing this curveball. Long story short, I ended up
(14:33):
taking the television contract still, but Isaiah Thomas and the
New York Liberty created the first position, which was the
director of Franchise Development, and I was the first kind
of player that went into that role highbrid between the
business and the basketball side, and I just was like, wow, Okay,
all these things and ideas I had. Now I have
(14:53):
a way to speak to this side and operations, but
I also understand the different vertical on the business side
and how business is going to kind of cross back
and forth and how it has to flow like that
in order to have success.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
Well, then the thing is, like you before you kind
of transition into the NBA, like you had a great
job in position with the Liberty. So what was it
that made you want to move over the to the NBA.
Speaker 5 (15:22):
It really came down the opportunity. And I'm glad you
asked this question, Jamille, because when I made the decision
to go to the NBA, a lot of people were
why are you doing that? You're here in a W.
What they don't realize is you have to have opportunity
to stay in the W. And so you know, I
was working at the time with David Griffin down at
(15:42):
T and T, and he said to me, Hey, if
I get one of these jobs like, I'm gonna reach
out to you. And that was all the strength of
us talking, having conversations in the grain room about sports
and all of that. When the Liberty got sold to Brooklyn,
there was an opportunity for me to potentially come on board.
Shout out to Kiya Clark CEO because she's over there
killing it. But it was on the business side, and
(16:05):
I said, for me at that point in time in
my career, yeah, I could definitely go over to the
business side, but I feel like I have not only shown,
but have the skill set, knowledge and ability to do
what needs to be done on the operation side as well.
So that opportunity at that point in time was not
there for me, understood not a problem and so I
was able to take the NBA opportunity that was presented
(16:28):
to me. And so it wasn't like I was seeking
out the NBA. It was time place opportunity and we
took advantage of it.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
So on that end, I mean looking around the W now,
how do you think the league has done in terms
of welcoming or at least making these kind of opportunities
available to former players.
Speaker 5 (16:49):
Yeah, I am not happy with where it is right now.
I know recently had a conversation with Lisa and talking
about her experience and to become a head coach to
the W and it just it just really didn't sit
well with me. And you know the biggest thing for
me is is that throughout my whole career. You always
(17:10):
you're going to spring board to something new, but you
always have to pay respect to the ones that also
built the foundation and the ones that have the skill set,
the knowledge and the ability to do the jobs. I
don't believe in this thing that you know former players
come in and they're not ready. That's one of the
things that people use as a way to keep people out.
(17:32):
If you really want to be inclusive, as I believe
the w has been forever and wants to be, then
you have to open up those opportunities. Adiah Thomas didn't
go to my mom and say, you know, swim has
ran this many you know she went from manager, senior manager, here, here,
and now she's ready for a director position. He went
and said, I saw this in her. I want to
(17:54):
give her the opportunity. That is all a lot of
women are asking for. Give that opportunity and then watch
them be able to grow. And also, don't just give
the opportunity to say yay, we did it, and then
you have the shortest amount of leash for somebody that's
been in this league helping build this league that's trying
to grow. You don't put the resources around them. You
(18:15):
don't give them the things that they need to have success,
but then you're ready to kept bait and just go
for the shiny object over here. I don't believe in that,
and that's why for me, I'm so invested in women
in their careers in sports, because they have to understand
how to surround themselves not only would a good tribe,
but the resources to prepare for any opportunity and maybe
ahead of them.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
You mentioned something key and important about Lisa as in
Lisa Leslie's experience, you know, she talked about how she
was up for two jobs, didn't get them, and she
pretty much said she was done interviewing in the W
four a head coaching position. A pretty I think embarrassing
statistic I stumbled upon for this particular season is that
there's only one black woman who's a head coach in
(18:55):
the W right now. What is happening there? From your
active is this a matter of interest opportunity?
Speaker 5 (19:02):
Like?
Speaker 1 (19:02):
What is going on because a league that is seventy
percent black, it should seem like that should never be
the case.
Speaker 5 (19:10):
Yeah, I'm not really sure. I don't have an answer
for that, Jamil, but I am just as curious as
you are. I would love to have more conversations. Obviously
a lot of the owners I've had relationships with and
continue to have relationships with, and those questions I feel
like need to be asked, like how are we going
about our hiring process? And you don't want to ever
(19:33):
get to a point where we're looking at a potential
Rooney rule in the WNBA, like that should never be
even a thought at all. But maybe as times are changing,
as pressure is coming in even more and more teams
being added, more valuations going up, people tend to sometimes
go after what could possibly be like headline or safe
(19:57):
bits and different things. But it's because the safe bets
usually exclude women and minorities a lot of the time.
And we just think, as a league, and I say
we because I care about the w so much, is
that have to do a better job and it has
to be accountability and so I think, you know, from
the top, from Kathy on down to the owners, there
really needs to be more discussion around that.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
Yeah, how concerned are you as somebody who you know
still very much is a member of that league you
played there, you know, I think it would always be
part of your membership of being in the w But
how concerned are you as there's these new owners, new
influx of cash, new opportunities, new eyeballs, are you concerned
that women will begin to be sort of pushed out
(20:44):
of the thing that they built.
Speaker 5 (20:47):
My hope is that when you're doing the background on
bringing on these new owners, that there are certain criteria
and stipulations that come with you getting a w NBA team.
How are you going to go about your hiring process.
How are you trying to be connected to the community.
It's not just a money graph. This is a bill.
It's good business, but it also should be about all
(21:09):
the things that are important to these women who are
the product that go out there and play on the court.
And so, speaking with a few of the new owners
that are actually coming in, I've liked how some of
them have been very aggressive. We could obviously the Valkyries
you go to them right away, but I like how
they have been aggressive not only with how they're going
(21:30):
to resource the team, but also start looking at some
of those cap tables Like that tells you a lot too.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
You spent six years with the Pelicans in the front office.
When you began working with NBA players on a I mean,
obviously you knew NBA players, but like working in the
culture of the NBA on a day to day basis
what I guess, what did you have to adapt to,
What did you have to get used to that was
(21:58):
different about how they do things in the NBA versus
what you were used to.
Speaker 5 (22:02):
Well, it was a lot more money from ANBA, you know.
And I say that, let me say, let me take
a step back. I came from New York, so I
will give a shout out to MSG because we did
have the resources we needed. Now towards the end with
the transition happening, it is what it is. But I
(22:25):
would I would see just from team to team, not
just you know, our team, but everything's different. How much
money you're getting on the road for food, how many
resources are offered to you. So those things were immediately
like hmm okay. But the biggest glaring thing is is
that I was the players and I were fine. There's
(22:47):
not a player that came through here that you couldn't
have a conversation with and they probably would tell you
like swe and I were good because I came in
very authentic of I'm coming in from an athlete position position,
because I've been with you where you're at right now,
and I've also been where you're trying to get to.
That's one and then two. Being very transparent and leading
(23:08):
with truth makes it easier for somebody. Whether you cursed
me out for that day and be mad about everything,
you're gonna come back. You're gonna get this little hug,
this little jab, we're gonna be good, and we're gonna
keep it moving. It's like, you know, teammates, And so
I approached it from that standpoint, and that was always fine.
I think where I had to learn, what I had
to learn quickly was that when you come into a
(23:29):
space and sometimes former athletes and you may have a
resume like I did, you tend to think because you're
a teammate, you're just like, Okay, everybody's cool, we're gonna
get together. But what you failed to realize and what
I had to adapt to really quickly, is some people
have this has been their only career, they've only been
in the NBA, and they've been scratching and clawing and
(23:50):
get ahead. And I'm coming in from a vice president's
standpoint being like, okay, well, here's how I kind of
see it and people look at you and not only
your woman you're a black woman, but also why do
you have that title that I'm trying to get to.
And so instead of taking the approach of let me
just you know, come in and lay the hammer down,
I started taking people out individually, like letting people get.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
To know me.
Speaker 5 (24:14):
And it's weird because a lot of times people would
just you think people are going to give you the
benefit of the doubt. But forming relationships was the biggest
thing that I learned in year one that I had
to do and move quickly on.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
I think a lot of people, of course, they see
more women, especially more former WNBA players, frankly being in
these front office positions, even getting experience as coaches, they
assume that you're in an environment where potentially men won't
respect you as much just because of what your background
(24:50):
is or just being a black woman.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
So what would you what would you say or how
would you.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
Describe your experience in terms of what that dynamic was like?
Here you are a woman who's a former WNBA player,
who's got all the things on her resume. Did you
find yourself was it at all difficult to get the
players respect or is that part of it overblown?
Speaker 5 (25:14):
It's very overblown, And I want to say this on
your show because people need to stop using tools to
keep them in positions and not to cross the NBA
or anywhere else. There is not a problem where if
you're telling me that a woman coming into a male
space means that, oh my goodness, he's going to rage out,
something's going to happen. It's the boys club, dude. The
(25:36):
problem with that is is that then you should be
having more resources to help the guide this in that
situation than worried about the female because I believe, and
I believe this is the day that we even hired
Teresa Witherspon, is that hiring women is good business because
diversity of thought in your room is important. Like, we're
not living in a society where it's just the men
(25:57):
are over here making all the decisions. Now, well, let's
leave government out of it, but we're not in a
society right now where men are just over here making
all the decisions and everything. Like, we have to be
honest about the environments we're creating for these young men
with skill sets. They're just trying to get better. An
athlete does not care if it's coming from a male
(26:17):
or female. Can you help me get better? Can you
help me get to the bat? Can you help me
build my brand? Like these are real questions, And what
I find a lot is that people tend to create
and keep saying these different stereotypes in order to keep
people out.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Yeah, it seemed like that seemed to be a major
kind of roadblock that people have and saying that, like, oh,
you know, the reason why we won't see women coaching
or women in these roles is because a.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Man will never you know, that's an NBA player will
never accept her opinion.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
And it sounds like you have the opposite experience, as
you said, like most of the guys just want to
get better. How did you feel about how Zion has
been covered in the media.
Speaker 5 (27:04):
Yeah, so it bothered me a lot at different times.
And I think it bothered me more because I saw
the way that it became a tool for click bait
more than it was a critique of the player. Like
I knew some of the people on air that would
(27:25):
be screaming or going in on him, and it'd be
the same people that we would reach out to him
be like, yo, do you want to have a conversation
we're coming in town behind closed doors. But you know
that wasn't really everything wanted to be public instead of
behind closed doors. Now, granted, and Zion knows this and
he's talked about it as well. He had to own
(27:48):
some of the things that also came out or some
of the ways that he has been and so I
think he did that. But for me internally being able
to watch a player's growth, part of my job is
to speak to speak truth to your situation and then
try to provide any resources or opportunities with your team
(28:09):
that's around you in order to help you be better.
And so you know, I didn't like that part, but
I will say this, Jamelle. I think opportunities like that
it either makes a player stronger or it's going to
affect you in a way where you won't be able
to get over it. And I do believe that Zion
has the ability to come out and play, to stay healthy,
(28:32):
stay on the court, and just prove people wrong. And
that's how that type of approach that I would take
as a player is just come out and be consistent
and then all that goes away. But it's unfortunate that
so much would would have to be brought on somebody
at the time that was twenty years old, you know,
and it can be frustrating, But when you're in a
(28:52):
position that I was in, it's really about, Okay, how
do we as a team, how do we, as like
with his agency, with his family, figure out what's the
best step forward instead of looking backwards.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
So from what you can see, how much was he
sort of impacted psychologically by how the media often portrayed him.
Speaker 5 (29:15):
Yeah, I can't speak for you know where he was
from a psychological standpoint. I think that's you know, his
story to tell whenever he feels he wants to kind
of talk about it. I would just say for me,
from a psychological standpoint, it was tough because I know
how difficult it already is to be young, black successful
(29:39):
within kind of not only the country but in the
world right and when you open up when it's other
people that look like you that are opening up these
critiques that are not about your game but everything else
around it, when pictures are getting shown and all those things,
that can be tough. So for me it was hard
(30:00):
because I'm in protection mode, like I care about these guys,
I'm with them day and day in the thick of it.
You know, I had one time somebody call me and
be like, oh, you know what's going on down there?
So and so is looking like this and looking like that.
One thing you will always know about me and no
one will ever be able to say, is you will
not hear somebody say, well, swin set, X, Y and
(30:21):
Z six years, have you heard my name or seen
my name in the media? Has it come up with
any of these breaking news reporters. We don't move like that,
never moved like that. You can't be in a foxhole
with somebody and also at the same time giving out
information and trying to throw people under the bus if
(30:42):
I'm not doing my job. Look, we take jobs in sports,
especially in front office, understanding that we're probably going to
get fired or removed in X amount of years. Right,
you get two runs at it. Cool, but you have
to understand how the cycle works. And whenever I was
told about of leaving the job here in New Orleans,
(31:03):
I never forget this, Jamail. I had somebody in another
front office call me said, if you ever need anything,
all I want to do is call and tell you
I respect the hell out of you because you never
heard a lot of people knew different things that were happening.
We never heard your name, not even on a trail
scouting wherever the Swin set X Y and Z and
I said, and you never will because that's just how
(31:26):
that's how we move. And unfortunately, women we know how
to move really well like that, don't we, Jamail, We do.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
We often are not given enough credit for how we
were able to do that. But as I have often
said before, with certain people, I was like they needed
to take my silence as a gift, So.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
Please do that absolutely well.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
Listen, there's a lot more I want to ask you
about a swin, especially about She's Got Time, the platform
that you founded that is doing some remarkable things and
the major event that you have coming up in Vegas.
Want to definitely dive into that and a couple other
WNBA issues, But we're going to take a very quick
break and we'll be right back with more with Swain
Cash Twin. You had mentioned earlier in this podcast, you
(32:20):
talked about just sort of the dynamics that you face
in a professional setting and these executive settings as a woman,
and you have created this wonderful platform, She's Got Time,
which is kind of a blend of just storytelling but
also a summit that you're having in Vegas, like really
being able to put women in contact with one another
across the sports industry and.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
Also to empower them. So give me the reason.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Why you felt like it was important for you to
develop this kind of platform that helped women who are
pursuing and within careers.
Speaker 5 (32:52):
Since ya, thank you for that question, because I love
She's got time. It's been near and dear to my heart.
So in twenty twenty two, when I was going to
Nations Basketball Hall of Fame, I took a couple of
months to really kind of writen out the speech and
thank you for your participation help with that as well
just making that a special day for myself. But I
was thinking about how I could be more intentional. I
(33:14):
felt like one door was closing, and a lot of
times that I'm not sure you get this. You get
hundreds of women being like, hey can you be a
mentor young people, Hey I need this, I need that.
And I realized, like having children also having a career,
like your time is very limited, and so I felt
like I wanted to create this ecosystem that could really
(33:35):
bring women together in an authentic way, an intentional way
to have access, Like we want to help women scale
their careers in sports, and the only way to do
that is to put you on run with people in
close proximity that maybe deals can be done, opportunities can
be met. And I didn't see that happening with a
lot of women that looked like me. And so when
(33:57):
we went back to the drawing board, I went to
my husband and I said, look, I have this idea
and this concept God is really put on my heart
and I want to be intentional about how we are
including women, how we're servicing women, how we're building community.
Can you help me? He looked at me and he said,
you must be serious because you don't ask me for anything,
(34:18):
and so I said, I'm absolutely serious. So we went
about the hiring process and we hired people and I
knew I was an executive at the time, and we
put people in position to build this company. So we
are a media and lifestyle company. Yes, we focus on storytelling.
We have our media arm and we're continuing to grow that.
We have our irls like are something that's going to
be in Vegas. So be our first year in Vegas.
(34:39):
We were intentional the last two years we had it
in New Orleans, but we wanted to bring it over
NBA Summer League to Vegas. Knowing that we had all
thirty teams in Vegas, shout out to NFL in WSL,
all the other people that actually raised their hand and
said hey, we're going to show up as well. And
then also the third piece of that is just really
our community in our app. You have an app, you
(35:00):
can know that she's got time and downloaded and joined
that community. And so this isn't about it's less about
me and more about us. And I've had great mentors.
You've had some great mentors to Jamail, but there are
a lot of women out there navigating. Whether you're a
OG like Amy Trash at the c suite level, or
you're an ustry level, you're an influencer, you're behind the camera,
(35:20):
you're coming in to media, and you want to have
that tribe or that sisterhood. We're trying to create that
for you.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
It's interesting to me that during the time as you're
doing she's got time, you know, noting that like the
number of NBA teams and the number of what would
be traditionally, you know, male environments. The NBA, the NFL,
these other sports are hiring more women and especially former
athletes to come in to their system, and you know, obviously,
(35:49):
you know, sort of grace it with their own you know,
intelligence and background and everything experience that they have. So
why do you think, in particular in the NBA, that
hiring former WNBA players for positions like the one you had,
and again you weren't the only one. Why do you
think that's become more attractive to some teams?
Speaker 5 (36:06):
First, I think society kind of had a wake up
call for us. I think through kind of what happened
with George Floyd. I think people said, wait a minute,
we've been doing the same things. How can we be different?
So that was an opportunity. I don't look at that
as a bad thing. I look at it, Okay, every
time you're doing a kind of gut check and evaluation
of yourself, how can we be better? So when the
(36:27):
opportunity presented itself for women like me, it's good business.
Like I am so sick of hearing people talk about, oh,
we want to support women, we want to get this
woman in here. It ain't charity, do you know how
many sharp women there are that can run many people
that I know in this industry. Like that's the part
that really is just mind boggling to me, is that
(36:50):
you should want to have good business, and good business
means diversity of thought in your room. If I'm an owner,
if I'm a team president. I said this to David Griffin,
who was my boss for six years. I say, you
get paid to make the decision. I get paid to evaluate,
to see how we can scale, how we can be better,
but more resources, I'm going to give you everything that
I think you should know. Once you make the decision,
(37:12):
we move. And that's just how I operate, because one
day when I sit in that chair, I'm hoping the
people around me and the executive team or the leadership
that I build, they're diverse to not to give me
that feedback. And you can't tell me that if there's
all men that is in the room and there's not
a woman that she, you couldn't have gotten a different
thought or maybe a better way to think about something.
(37:35):
So as an entrepreneur, I look at it and say
the same thing I do as an entrepreneurs, the same
thing I want to do in an NBA office, a
WNBA office. I want the diversity of thought because it's
a good business.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
You know.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
Speaking of good business, I mean clearly it's become really
good business in the WNBA and that could not be.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
Illustrated better by expansion.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
And naturally, you know, I have to ask you about
how you feel about the fact that Detroit is getting
it's w NBA team back. It's a team that you know,
you won championships with the Detroit Shock which now which
became the Dallas Wings.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
But that's the story for another day.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
But nevertheless, you know, you know us Detroit as we
love you because of what you built in Detroit and
now seeing the team get or seeing the city get
the team back, how did that make you feel seeing
that Detroit will will have a team again.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
I believe it.
Speaker 5 (38:25):
Yeah, it just it warmed my heart. It really did,
because I'm gonna tell you, Jamil, I would come through Detroit,
whether I was traveling through from the airport, traveling with
the team going back to play the Pistons. There's not
one person that wouldn't pull up on me like, what's
up when we get our team back? What you're doing,
how you involved? And I'm like I'm working in there,
like no, no, no, no, how we get our team back,
(38:45):
and so it was really just for me, you know,
heartwarming shout out to arn Tellem, Tom Gores everyone. If
you haven't looked when I said earlier in the podcast,
look at people's cap table. That'll tell you the direction
you're trying to go in. And I think what they
formed there in Detroit is people who actually care not
only about the business of the w but like how
(39:08):
this is going to blossop into even more. And so yes,
I am excited for the whole city. Everybody in my
DMS yelling what up though, I get it, I get it.
I'm happy for the city.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
Don't be popping again.
Speaker 5 (39:22):
And so yeah, just it really is a true feat
for the city of Detroit. They have the team bat.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
Now, a lot of people don't know that Detroit won
three titles in I believe six years. Still believe that
the Shock are the only professional sports team to go
from last place to winning a title the very next year,
something you never see obviously in major professional sports. How
(39:50):
do you feel as if the Shock were remembered Like
I said this, and you can tell me if I'm wrong.
I think the Shock have the most disrespected WNBA legacy
of all the dynasties that have happened in the WNBA.
Like you, when they're talking about the WNA dynasties, of
course they bring up the sparks, they bring up the links,
they bring up the comets.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
You do not hear the shot.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
So I mean, am I just say my feelings because
I'm a Detroiter. How do you think the shots legacy
has been remembered in sort of the WNBA.
Speaker 5 (40:23):
No, you are not in your feelings. You are absolutely right.
And I would say this before the team even came back.
It was very short sighted from a standpoint that because
the team moved, it was easier to just kind of
not talk about them, but to be honest with you,
when we were winning, it was kind of the dismissive,
Oh when they played too rough, they do this. It
(40:44):
was always something. But those banners still went up. And
that's what I really don't even understand, is like, if
that's going to be the case, then shout out to Detroit.
It's about time to tell your own story because obviously
we have some young people that may not use Google
as much. The need to start doing that because there's
(41:05):
teams from the Huston Commets all the way up that
have won. There's been dynasties and you have to put
Detroit in that. But I think when you don't see
it as much, it's easy to fade to the background.
So that's why I say, like, maybe it's time to
start telling those stories, because that I'm telling you to
play in funding almost twenty two thousand in the Palace
(41:25):
to come back from La, I have to getting our
spaces smacked. And I tell Lisa I messed with least
all the time. They came back up in there smooth
like we're about to get number three? Have our dynasty?
What's up? And I listened, I'm not even gonna get
into it, but your girl, we didn't sleep. I was
in an Exera road from LA to Detroit. Didn't sleep,
was pacing, paysing. We had to win two games in
(41:48):
Detroit and we pulled up and we were able to win.
So like, it's the storytelling around it. And I really hope,
you know, as she's got time continues to build that
we're in position to continue to tell those stories as well.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
Yeah, I had Kandas S Parker as a guest on
politics a few weeks ago, and naturally I asked her
about the fight between Sparks where Candas was a rookie
and Candess almost got locked up.
Speaker 2 (42:15):
Good old Peningte Pierson and Resting.
Speaker 5 (42:17):
It was. So it's so much that's there, from the
identity to how it was built to like it. I
will say this the team coming back to Detroit. There's
some people that still in the radio station shout out
the Bushman and everybody else. When I tell you the culture,
(42:38):
the culture of Detroit. When a shock where there and
I got drafted there and we were like, we're turning
this thing around. Everybody pulled up. I mean everybody from
court side to our games. We would go out in
the community. It was it was Pistons, shop, Lions, everybody,
whether we in the same club, whether in sat restaurants like.
It was that type of family dynamic that really brought
(43:01):
the sports town where it was at that point in time.
And so I really hope that those days can kind
of come on back. And it was popping even some
this year. You know that being at the Pistons game
in downtown now, so that's a little different than that dynamic.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
Yeah, I think that's what's actually gonna be even more encouraging.
It's like they'll get to play downtown. And Detroit has
always been a great sports city, despite what Sophie Cunningham
may think. You know, the shock even yeah the Shaka
you I mean they were in the top five, and
attendance set a record for like most attended finals game,
I mean, like a lot of attendance record because of
(43:37):
how the city is supported. All right, so when to
wrap this up? Wrap up every podcast with what I
call a messy question. This is the question where we
make the blogs. This is where we get all the
tweet big headlines. This is where it happens. All right,
what will we see first? This is the messy question.
What will we see first a woman being the head coach,
(43:59):
being a head coach of an NBA team, or a
w NBA player making a million dollars this season.
Speaker 5 (44:11):
It's a messy question, but I'm that's I think we
will Yeah, we will see. Unfortunately, there's still a lot
of work to do from the coaching standpoint in the
n B A shout out to Jenny Bousig that that
has been kind of making her way in the ranks.
(44:33):
We'll see a WNB A player make a million dollars.
Speaker 2 (44:37):
Mm hmmm. Actually, you know, I'm really surprised you said that.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
I thought you'd say the other direction, and only because
like you look at like you know, obviously Becky Hammond
was was in the league.
Speaker 2 (44:47):
You look at the Indiana Pacers.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
I mean their defense was designed basically by a woman coach.
And it feels like, especially I guess if you're hearing
the what is in the conversation around the CBA that
is about to be negotiated between the players, the WNBA
players in the league, I know it won't I'm not
hopeful it will happen this CBA, so it may take
(45:13):
another four or five six years.
Speaker 2 (45:15):
For things to happen.
Speaker 1 (45:17):
I was like, I could see, especially if you got
the Knicks, who already said they talked to Don Staley.
I could see that happening before you actually had a
WNBA player making a million dollars.
Speaker 5 (45:29):
In So let me say this to you when you
go through the hiring process and being interestingly involved in
that on the NBA side, I said this from my
standpoint of, you know, as I was continuing to grow
and wanting to eventually become president of basketball operations or
(45:49):
the top spot is that it's going to take one
owner that is not worried about can lead. How are
the men going to feel, what's the locker room situation
going to be, what's this going to be? Because I
think at that the belly part of the NBA, there's
(46:10):
a lot of people that continue those conversations going that
it starts feeding upwards and starts feeding downwards. And so
you'll hear women's name in conversation for jobs, but are
they their name just in it or have they really
been considered? That is what we have to get to,
is like the consideration of let me not do this
(46:31):
for the headlines, but let me do this because this
is actually what I think we really need for our organization.
I think that you are the one, and I think
it's going to take one owner to be able to
do that. As many of these NBA teams that are
getting bought right now, I do think that there are
more ownership ownership groups that are coming in that may
(46:53):
have an appetite for that, but I do feel there's
a lot of work still to be done.
Speaker 1 (46:57):
Well, we'll see which one happens first. Naturally, I hope
the ladies get of course for sure. But anyway, Swinn,
thank you so much for joining me. Really appreciate it
and really honored that you have me as part of
She's got time, being able to spend some time in Vegas,
and of course fellowship with all the other women that
you've been able to bring together. So really grateful for
(47:19):
your platform because it's something that we can.
Speaker 2 (47:21):
All look to if we want to find each other.
Speaker 1 (47:24):
We know where we are, so it's like that fellowship
is really meaningful and important.
Speaker 5 (47:28):
So thank you so much for that. We are looking
forward to having you in Vegas, and we are also
are looking forward to launching our first race for our
company and actually going global. So we have some announcements
coming at the summit, so stay tuned.
Speaker 1 (47:41):
Ooh okay, okay, I can't wait to hear it, all right,
thanks whin. One more segment to go coming up next,
the Final Spin. Now, usually this point of the podcast
(48:05):
is reserved for the Final Spin, but I thought it
would be more appropriate to use this time to express
some very sincere gratitude. Now, I learned this week that
the Netflix documentary Simone Boles Rising has been nominated for
an Emmy. Now, this is a doct that I was
blessed to serve on as a producer and writer.
Speaker 2 (48:21):
I was so honored at Religion of Sports, a global.
Speaker 1 (48:24):
Media company that has produced incredible documentaries Tom Brady, Serena Williams,
and even John bond Jovi.
Speaker 2 (48:30):
They invited me to be part of this project.
Speaker 1 (48:32):
Now, when you produce anything, you just try to do
the best work possible, not necessarily with awards in mind.
Speaker 2 (48:39):
But with quality in mind.
Speaker 1 (48:41):
So I can't tell you all what it means to
me to have this Simone Biles docuseries nominated for such
a prestigious award and to be a part of telling
the story of one of the greatest athletes in history.
So thank you Simone Boles, and thank you Religion US Sports.
Already got one Emmy, and if I get another one,
y'all won't be able to make eye.
Speaker 2 (48:59):
Contact with me for another year. I promise you.
Speaker 1 (49:02):
This concludes another episode of Politics. I'm at Jamail Hill.
Across all social media platforms Twitter, Instagram, fan based, Blue
Scott and threads, please use the hashtags politics, but you
also have the option of emailing me a question or
a comment that you might have As Politics twenty twenty
four at gmail dot com. You can also video me
that question or comment, but please make sure it is
(49:22):
thirty seconds or less. Don't forget to follow and subscribe
to his politics on iHeart and also follows Politics pod
on Instagram and TikTok. Politics is spelled sbo l I Tics.
A new episode of Politics drops every Thursday on iHeart
Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. This is politics
(49:43):
where sports and politics don't just mix, they matter. Politics
is the production of iHeart Podcasts and the Unbothered Network.
I'm your host Jamail Hill. Executive producer is Taylor Shakoin.
Lucas Hyman is head of audio and executive producer. Original
(50:04):
music First Politics provided by Kyle VISs from wiz FX
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