August 21, 2025 • 67 mins
On this week's filibuster, Jemele takes aim at the fake outrage over male NFL cheerleaders. Jemele is then joined by award-winning filmmaker Spike Lee, who discusses his new film, Highest to Lowest, his fifth collaboration with Denzel Washington. Spike reveals what makes his chemistry and collaboration with Washington special, and whether or not this could be their last film together. Spike also shares what he thought of the Knicks firing coach Tom Thibodeau, and whether he’d like to see LeBron James as a Knick before he retires. And finally, Jemele shares a response to Jillian Michaels, the fitness personality who sparked controversy by minimizing the impact of slavery.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, what's up, everybody. I'm Jamel Hill and welcome to politics.
And I heard podcasts and unbothered production. Time to get spolitical.
I will never fully understand why people love to give
(00:20):
a fuck when it's simply not their turn to give
a fuck. Shout out to Buck Morland. Now, this sudden
outrage by people, from politicians to fans over the existence
of male cheerleaders in the NFL would be hilarious if
it wasn't so rooted in stupidity. The Minnesota Vikings announced
their cheerleading squad, and it sent a bunch of people
(00:41):
straight off an emotional cliff because, behold, there were two
male cheerleaders on the team. The comments section on the
Vikings announcement was as enlightened as you might expect. One
fan wrote, I just lost all respect for the Vikings.
Another fan chimed in, I'm not a Vikings fan, no more.
(01:01):
Fragility was on a thousand and of course, because Republicans
can't resist a good, unimportant culture war, Alabama Senator Tommy
Tuberville came flying off the top rope to express his
disgust for male cheerleaders.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Take the men out of men's sports, just what they're doing.
I hope to god it doesn't come south.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
I don't know that that's been a problem in the
state of Minnesota.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
It is about pushing a narrative that you want to
put gender into sports. Let everybody know that we're trying
to show that, Hey, we're going to take the masculinity.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Out of a little bit.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
We are all Americans, and don't push that. Then you're
gonna have a huge problem. It's coming.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Oh no, male cheerleaders, What is we going to do?
What about the kids? What about the damn kids? If
only Tommy Tuberville were as much of an expert on
the three branches of government as he is on male cheerleaders.
Speaker 4 (01:52):
You know that our government wasn't set up for one
group to have all three of branches of government. They
wasn't shut up that way, or our three branch the
House to say it, and the.
Speaker 5 (02:04):
Executive I can hear you. You're trailing off And did
I catch a niner in there? Were you calling from
alwalkie talkie?
Speaker 1 (02:10):
So Tommy Tupperville not an expert on government or male cheerleading. Now,
if a cheerleader, male or female, takes away your enjoyment
of the game that says more about your team than
it says about the cheerleaders themselves. But since we're here,
let me short circuit the three brain sales that Tommy
Tupperville has. From the eighteen hundreds well into the nineteen
(02:30):
twenties and nineteen thirties, cheerleading actually was considered a man sport.
It was an elite activity for men, especially for those
who attended Ivy League schools. A newspaper editor wrote this
about cheerleading in nineteen eleven. The reputation of having been
a valiant cheerleader is one of the most valuable things
a boy can take away from college as a title
(02:52):
to promotion in professional or public life. It ranks hardly
second to that of having been a quarterback. Let that
sink in now. Obviously, there was a shift during the
Second World War. Women began assuming the cheerleading roles because
the men were at war. This actually created some friction
between men and women once men returned from the war,
(03:15):
because a lot of them wanted their pomp poms back.
When you study the history, there were some pretty important
male figures who were once cheerleaders, including many of the
men who are deeply admired by the Republican Party, Ronald Reagan,
George W. Bush, Dwight D. Eisenhower. Although this is probably
(03:36):
my favorite male cheerleader of all time.
Speaker 5 (03:38):
Enough is enough.
Speaker 6 (03:40):
I have had it with these motherfucking snakes on this
mother fucking play.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
As far as the NFL is concerned, they've had male
cheerleaders since twenty eighteen, with the Rams being the first
team to do so, and this season there will be
twelve teams who have male cheerleaders. But looking at the reaction,
it's clear that what is really bothering some people is
how some male cheerleaders present themselves. There are plenty of
male cheerleaders in college sports as well, but the reason
(04:07):
no one raises an eyebrow is because we see the
majority of them lifting and throwing young women in the air,
and what they represent are feats of strength. But the
male cheerleaders on the Vikings don't fit that description. They're
dancing and probably looking a little too happy for some folks.
Liking R. K. Russell, a former NFL player, wrote this
(04:28):
about the cheerleading in the Guardian. This isn't about performance
at all. It's about presence. It's about the mere existence
and visibility of men on NFL cheer squads who don't
conform to the rigid, outdated ideas of masculinity that so
many youth sport and football in particular to defend. The
right is constantly accusing the left of being soft and
(04:50):
being the culture war warriors, when time and again is
the right that's lighting their nikes on fire because of
Colin Kaepernick shooting bud like mirror cans and now wowing
to disavow their favorite sports teams over male cheerleaders. And
it's simply because the existence of other people in viewpoints
don't fit their neuro point of view, and basically it
(05:10):
just simply ain't they turn to give a fuck. I'm
Jammel Hill, and I approve this message. Today's guest is
one of my favorite folks, and he also happens to
be an award winning director whose films the last forty
years have expanded what we think of black life and
given us such cultural gems as do the Right Thing,
Mo Better Blues, you Know, The Bus, Jungle Fever, Inside Man,
(05:32):
twenty fifth Hour, among others. When it's time to go there,
he afraid to go there. He's got a new film
coming out called highest to Lois, which would be his
fifth with one of the greatest living actors of our time,
Denzel Washington. Coming up next on politics, Spike Lee, Spike,
(05:59):
thank you, thank so much for joining me here on politics.
I will start this podcast with a question that I
feel like you are going to completely knock out of
the park. It is a question I ask every guest
that appears, and that is name an athlete or a
moment that made you first love sports. Maybe do what
meant that made you first love sports.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
I was too young to remember, but I remember my
father taking me the old Guarniushman Avenue. Remember my father
taking me to Shape stam I remember my father taking
the old Yankee Stamens. The New York Giants were horrible,
and I think white tatoes that I was cold. I
was like daddy, we had a blanket, were I sailh
(06:45):
My god. But I come from the era where fathers
took their sons, how much later daughters at an early
age and introduced from sports. He always told about his holders,
about his high school heroics and basketball and football and
(07:06):
all that stuff. But growing up in Brooklyn, my guys
were Willie Mays, Ali walf Frasier. You know those those
were nameth, you know those were And then there's something
(07:27):
I don't know what described the word, but when you
meet your your boyhood heroes, I was never disappointed because
I was grown and then to know that muhamma a
leads see my fields name is Willie May's Wold Fraser.
(07:47):
The one I really the four I was really still
close to is Wolf Fraser. He's my my, my favorite
still my favorite Nick of all time. So we're not
gonna talk about basketball, because you know what's happening. You know,
we talked about.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
We are definitely going to talk about some basketball because
I did go to NBA Summer League and I ran
into your new coach, Mike Davis, and I ran it
to your new coach, Uh not Mike Davis, Mike Brown. Sorry,
Mike Brown ran into your new coach and also Rick Brunson,
and uh, you know, so it was a lot of
(08:27):
Nick flavor that was there. So I will a little
bit later on.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
It was it's called all the Blue Sky.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
We will definitely get to a conversation about the Knicks,
but before we get there, at the risk of this
conversation starting in an awkward place, one thing I don't
like to do with my viewers or my listeners or
what have you, is playing their face. And of course
people know that you and I work together on the
(08:58):
Kalan Kaepernick documentary. I've seen said on the red carpet.
I know that you are very limited in what you
can say.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
I did.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
It's not an NBA, but out of respect for obviously
you and Colin, I'm not speaking out of school. And
so what I would say is, I wanted to take
this opportunity to thank you one for allowing me to
work on this project and for giving me a real
insider view to your process, to how it all works
(09:28):
as I dip deeper into production and understanding what that is.
And so I wanted to take an opportunity to thank
you for that in person, and also just to say
to people out there who are maybe watching this from befar,
you know, don't believe every narrative that you see.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
And also and also thank you. Here's the thing, though
this thing happened more than a year ago, and the
reason I never asked about it, and so it was
on the red carpet for the Pump Brothers thing, I
just said, what happened I mean it wasn't. I was
(10:10):
trying to blow up the spot, but because no one's
heard anything sort of way to report like this just
blew up. Well, I said it was more than a
year ago that that this, you know what, this unfortunate
thing happened. So it's not it's not like now there's
nobody said nothing, and I ain't never asked because no
(10:33):
one knew. It was just like that's all it was.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Yeah, well, I will say this. I do you. I
can be naive or foolish for believing this, but I'm
hoping that people do get to see this one day.
I'm hoping that.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
Too, you know. And I'd just like to say that,
you know, on your on your platform, your show, I
loved the love for yourself and you know, Pat is
just Colin. You know, it's all love. It's all love,
and you know, artistical things sometimes, you know, it doesn't
come together. So I've seen, you know, at the the
(11:16):
Black met thing where we Negros took over the disease
we gave you to the Big Hulk. So it's all
love us, all love.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Okay, Well, I'm glad you were able to to throw
that out there and set the record straight. But now
let's talk about Highest to lowis, which I had an
opportunity to see myself beautifully shot of course, and and
just well done overall. You of course you collaborated for
(11:47):
the fifth time with Denzel Washington, who I have to say,
I need to know this bike. Who was it that
convinced Denzel to wrap?
Speaker 3 (11:59):
Did? He was just creative?
Speaker 1 (12:00):
License was that something You're like, hey man, I'm gonna
need you to drop some bars. Denzel wrapping was the
unexpected treat I didn't know I deserved.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
Well, it's a Jesus. This is genius because there was.
It was never intended to be the way it was
written to turn around the battle. And but Denzel is
an honest artist and gordeous feeling knew that this something
(12:35):
extras needed to hear this. This is a showdown, I knew.
And so in the middle we're rolling the camera and
Danzel starts dropping bars from naz is ellmatic. I'm looking
at my it's not what the seeson about. And also
(13:02):
I get I gotta give my love the shot because
he didn't miss a step. So when denzels are dropping, boss.
Speaker 6 (13:16):
A still got into you had to get this character
at one point the line of like, well, this is
a rap battle, and it lifted.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Here's the thing, though we have a great scene, it
lifts the whole movie and just amplified this thing between
Denzel's character, his character David King, and Ace's character young Fella.
They just took the film in the stratosphere because just
(13:50):
like you said, you aren't the only one who's surprised. Man,
People are like, damn, is it anything that you can't do?
Speaker 5 (14:00):
The ball little rapper.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
That's He's Jordan's Jordan.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
He's the Jordan of acting.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
He is Michael Joseph Jordan. I mean, it's says when
you see somebody on that level, and this is I mean,
this is our fifth film together, hopefully it won't be
the last. It was just and they were going at
it too. You know, Denzel, come with something, Rocky, come
(14:40):
back with it. Then I can't stay before. Boy, he's
a guy like it, what is this a rap battle?
Speaker 7 (14:50):
Now?
Speaker 1 (14:51):
I think for a lot of people that have followed
asap Rocky, they will also be pretty surprised, I think
by his his performance only because we we've see him
as a rapper, so we know he you know, we
know that he can do that, but he brought up
an extra correct So what was it about him that
made him a fit for this role?
Speaker 3 (15:14):
Well, I was it's been on my raider, my radar.
My wife produced the film with him in earlier also
that John David Washington started and I brought him in
to read with Denzel. We try to fake it like
(15:38):
it's not an audition, but Rocky knew it was. And
it was Denzel's found decision. You know, is it good
enough that being in sea with me and we see
the result, we see the result.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
Didn't help barked this project to you. So what was
What were your first impressions when you saw what he
wanted to do when you saw the script.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
Well, he didn't tell me what the script was. Advice
someone to send it to you. FedEx so weird tomorrow
and before I humped the phone on it was doing it.
I even know what it was. But if my brother
for money on the Mount Vernon, I want to reach
out to his brother from the people Proba Brooklyn. We
(16:34):
had not worked insight man was eighteen nineteen years ago
and not seen that long. But it was Yeah, I
didn't realize that either. I was like, wow, it is
that much time? Yeah? Then I did not know and
left the time had elapsed, so I didn't even I
mean I even recognized the phone number. Man picked it up.
(16:55):
I said, who this means it's by Yoyos, this is
D So it was a blessing and he said, you
know as much indeuableblisy. You know, he said this, this
is New York and distills about New York, the ships
about New York. And and I trust to love Spike
to That's why I call him.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
M You know, so many people have made note for
understandable reasons, of the chemistry that you all have together.
Denzel is now behind the camera himself as a director.
So what do you think that he may have learned
from working with you that he is brought to his directing.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
And you would have to answer, I've learned not to
speak for my brother, and I don't want to make
that mistick again. Guy, I do hope we want to
do another more films. You, my sister, my beloved, you
have to ask question yourself.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
To touche now. But you have heard Denzel talk about
retiring and.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
And that's why I was saying were last film? And
after you said that, then that red he's doing the
more four films, signing up four. So I pray that
this stiff film would not be the last one. We'll
do a six. I'm not saying no more that this
film be the last film work. I thought it was hired,
(18:33):
or at least he said it was hired. Well, what
he must have changed his mind? So about you know,
I'm still in the game. So you know, I'm hoping,
but hope.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
Well, I mean, since we're talking about retirement, Spike, how
much longer do you want to do this?
Speaker 3 (18:55):
So the wheel meet this to set? All right, I'm ready,
all right, So.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Basically, as long as you can say action, you're gonna
do it.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
Oh action and also.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
God, So I'm gonna flip the question on you. I
asked you what you thought Denzel might have learned from you.
I'm gonna ask you, then, what do you think you
have learned from Denzel that has made you a better director?
Speaker 3 (19:42):
Well, I don't know how anyone who had a pleasure
and honor to direct this man wife feels the greatest
living after no respect to my brother, Naro, my brother,
But you know, I don't think that it'scorre Sasy would
(20:08):
take that you know as look, it's all love. I
don't think that the love of you have in sports
about who's to goat, you know, especially this is exploded
with Michael and Lebron. Now, I don't think that's in
film and TV as a ways in sports. So I love,
(20:29):
I mean, I mean the narrow he invited me to
his birthday party, you know, the summer. So I mean
in Pacino, I got love everybody, but I've never worked
with I've never had the honor of working with you know,
his honor will work with Paccinos. I can only go
body who I worked with, and the Narrow is gonna
(20:52):
you know, is definitely gonna say Bob. If Siddler Mette
was alive, he would say Paccino. Francis would say random.
But I think that the relations we're talking about made
love or not not necessarily competition, you know. So that's
(21:16):
the for me, that's the big difference.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
With the experiences that you've had working with Denzel, How
does this one compare to the other times you have
worked together?
Speaker 3 (21:33):
That's the beautiful question and the honest answer. Each one
was different, the movies different, the scripts different, the people
in behind the camera different, we're different in our private lives.
Hopefully no not hopefully we've gotten older as we come
down here. We're like that now with the season grizzled veteran,
(22:00):
not the hot shot rookie with old heads that he's
thinking about. If you're a real great old head, you
pass on your knowledge. You notice, you know the sports,
those old heads spring train whatever. They susan, who's the
(22:22):
next phenom? They say, son, sit down here for sisters,
sem and then they break down the science. These are
the dudes and the don'ts and so then I we're
old heads. We're old heads. You know, next year will
be forty years since I've been doing future films. She's
(22:48):
Gonna Have It came out in nineteen eighty six, bamn,
And I think that I think this obligation for disperienced
people to pass on the nounce. But you know, it
may sound like hate. I'm not a lot of times
(23:09):
the young cash don't want to hear it. They think
they know, like they've been here before, and the old
has you know, like, look, I'm no one's paying me
to do it. So if you don't want to listen
to me, do what you gotta do. And many times
you end up making giant missteps. Now I'm not I'm
(23:34):
not talking about me. I'm just you know, especially they
heard it from Benzel. If you Dezel trying to tell
you something and you ain't listening, no more responses, no
more responses? Is it crack is whack? I got you?
(23:57):
Crack it up? Right? How is it? How is it
that someone who's chief greatness over a longevity and you're
not listening. Motherfucker. You just got here. Yes, it showed up.
(24:25):
I don't understand that. And that's that's not just sports too.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
No, No, that's that's like across the board like that
that applies. But you, Spike, you have been young once,
you already know. It's why my grandmother used to say
all the time that youth is wasted on the young.
Jess to say that all the time. And the reason
why was because when you're young and you are ambitious,
and you have this strong desire to chart your own
(24:50):
course and path, you tend to get so locked in
that you kind of dismissed the wisdom that the people
who have been there and have gone through that same thing,
what they've been through. You make the mistake of thinking
that things are actually new under the sun when they
actually are not new under the sun.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
And also I'd like to say not to cut you up. Look,
I I've been different times in my life where exactly
what your sweet grandmother just said, grandmother's I'm going off
right here, just off topic, because my grandma put me
through more house and inn why you grabbed film school
(25:33):
and gave me seed money. But she's gonna have it.
For fifty years she taught art in this segregated South
Making Georgia and Atlanta, Georgia fifty years. I said this
before some people might be familiar with this. For fifty
is she never had one like for fifty is she
(25:55):
never had one white stuard. And fifty years she saved
the socialcurity checks for a grandchildren's education. And as she
would say, spiky, I was the first grandchild.
Speaker 8 (26:12):
So she uh, I mean, we could draw so much
if we're open from you know, the people who may sacrifice,
so we could just you know, sportsnalogy moved it down,
moved the ball further down.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
To the Goldman and I was. I listened to a
lot of people, but my grandmother, I'll say, yes, Mama, yes, mama, yes,
you know so there's just certain elders. It might be
a parent or grandfather, be your cousin, uncle, or neighbor.
That that if you're smart enough to listen to that
(27:00):
now is is dropping and incorporate that to help you
to maneuver, you know, as Prince said, this thing called life.
You know, so I'm giving up the grandmother's Why is
it grandmother's not grandfathers? Why is that for me?
Speaker 1 (27:23):
Grandfathers do too?
Speaker 3 (27:24):
I mean, I just my grandma is my grandmother?
Speaker 1 (27:27):
Okay? For me? It was mine. My grandma, my grandmother.
She had been married three times, so there was no
grandfather that I got a chance to know.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
Yeah, they were.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Deceased by the time I was born.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
She had three husbands.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
She had three husbands that they were you know what.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
One what you do is like that is what was
this in the South?
Speaker 8 (27:58):
Uh?
Speaker 1 (27:58):
No, it was not my grand mother. She was she
was born in Kentucky, but she migrated to Detroit. Right,
so today twy to.
Speaker 3 (28:10):
My she three times and they're all end of the dead.
Huh they handed up.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
I promise you this.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
Let me ask you one question, because what type of
sweet tea did you?
Speaker 5 (28:27):
Listen?
Speaker 1 (28:31):
I promise it was.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
Your grandma make was.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
You're about to mess around and walk me into a
true crime documentary.
Speaker 5 (28:45):
All three.
Speaker 3 (28:48):
Women to leave it on the porch and let let
the sun, let the leaves do the thing before it
is drunk.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
Now, two of the three died when they were already divorced.
I just want you to know that.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
Okay, three.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
I think the third one may have passed while they
were still married. And as far as I am, I
know no, no Sweet Tea was involved.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
Okay. So yeah, I mean that's a great story.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
That's that Fielmaker, that's that fieldmaker you. Uh. But you know,
since we were talking about young people and what they
can learn, uh, I'm curious, was there something and a
veteran tried to tell you that you didn't follow their
advice and it wound up backfiring on you.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
That never happened, Okay, And I'm not saying that that's
good or bad. Mostly Melville people's Davis, you know, Gordon Parks.
They encouraged me. Now, I don't know why that made choices,
but they never you know, give me here, son, let
(30:12):
me sit down, you know, teach you the game and
let me pull your coach. I never happened to me,
and I'm saying, well, it's good or bad. I'm saying,
they just they were, They're proud of me, encouraged me
and said keep keep it on, especially Ozzi especially, you know,
it was a lot of my films yea.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
The modern day compared.
Speaker 3 (30:35):
And then he was happy, you know, I was if
he was in that general rules in it too.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
Yeah, r d him and you had them both and
do the right thing and yeah, jungle jungle fever. I
was just saying, it was another two that I was
I was saying about so the of course, naturally I
saw this conversation pop up a lot when Sinners came out,
and there were a lot of comparisons to Ryan Coogler
(31:04):
and Michael B. Jordan with you and Denzel that they're
giving us the modern version of what you all have done.
Speaker 3 (31:12):
What did you think yet? Go ahead?
Speaker 1 (31:15):
What did you what did you think of those comparisons?
Speaker 3 (31:17):
Oh? First of all, I don't I didn't, you know,
I don't mess with that. But that Centers is such
as such, that's the best of my scene in years,
and that secrets where deal with the music going back
to our ancestors were thrown from other Africans brought here
(31:38):
here sixteen nineteen, brought here to to do. What they
did was just build this country free labor from cancine.
The warning can see at night. So I don't know
what all this bullshit woke stuff is. But to know,
here's the thing, though, my sister, our ancestors, our ancestors
(32:04):
had the decision to know that one day their lineage
would be free, and that they would not see that
in their lifetime, their parents' life and their grandparents but knew,
they knew one day that would you know that the
(32:30):
official bondage would be over? And sometimes look, I think
hosests are proud of us and something answers like.
Speaker 5 (32:40):
What the fuck would what you have done?
Speaker 3 (32:44):
We all love all love, all love and just And
I think that, Look, I'm only speaking for myself when
I think about my grandparents and what they saw would
be the extent of their life. They saw in their
grand that they were be hoping in a world where
(33:05):
they could do more, be free to do more. So
in the ancestors, our ancestors.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
Yeah, I agree with you about what you said about
that scene in Sinners, and I think I read later
on he had to really fight to keep that scene
in there because they wanted to cut it, and it
was a beautiful scene that obviously help people understand just
the through line of African music to what we see
today to hip hop. Like he's taken us on a
(33:42):
historical journey. You know, Ryan Coogler has been able to
set himself apart from a lot of directors. What do
you think it is about him that allows him to
set himself apart?
Speaker 3 (33:57):
Storyteller, a writer, director. He doesn't need somebody writing the
script for him to have a project. He writes his
own a writer, director, director, writer, and his co producer
is his lovely wife. So not that many people can
(34:20):
you know, work side by side to be married. I'm
not making any judge on just saying that that there
are that team solid challes a rock.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
Getting back the highest the lowest. For a minute, I
know what I took away from it because it really
helped me, or not helped me, but it really made
me think about not just the proliferation of stand culture,
but also the attention economy that we live in. What
are some of the things you want people to take
away when they watch this.
Speaker 3 (35:02):
To be honest with my sister, I really try to
reframe from telling people what they should expect. But I'm
going to make an exception for you because I love you.
Thank you this film which let's let's start here. There
was a novel called King's Ransom written by Ed mc
bain that was adapted by Couris Salah to make a
(35:26):
new film. So the original source is a novel called
King's Ransom, and for me, I went back there. I
read the book too. It's about morality and when you
have a dynamic, brilliant actor like mister Denzel Washington from
(35:52):
money Earner Mount Vernon, when the people when you when
you are on that level, the people watching the film
are they're trends poured it into Denzel's character. And when
(36:13):
that happens, you're you put yourself position like and I
what would I do if if I was in that situation?
And when you could do that, it's a god given gifts.
When people see this film and I knew it was happened,
and I've set in several oiences New York and LA
(36:37):
and you know, wake the lights down and then snuck in.
People are brought in. They're what Danzel's doing. They're going
through now and they ask themselves what would they do
if they were in that situation about morals and scruples,
(37:01):
And it's not a blanket answer. People gonna answer that
question depending upon who they are, what their values are.
But it's thrilling to be in that ride that that
gives us. Now there are some people will put their
(37:25):
mother on the corner. Other people will chop up an
arm for the child, even a friend. So I found
that when you deal morality that just racist mistakes. For me,
(37:47):
that raises fake it mistakes. Everybody is engaged. Yeah, And
I would add to that that please do, please.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
Do, because because me and my husband we saw it
to yeather and we we debated about it, and I
think one of the things that comes out of that
it's not just what your moral code is, is what
is your moral code when you don't have skin in
the game?
Speaker 5 (38:15):
Right?
Speaker 3 (38:15):
It's like because then it's ah, then it gets.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
A little shaky, right, because yeah, because you could say
what you would do for you and yours, but if
you and yours are not impacted, then what you're gonna.
Speaker 3 (38:27):
Do by blood too right? By by blood right correct?
Speaker 1 (38:32):
And so that I thought was a beautiful twist that
it was like, oh, because you the answer was obvious
when it was one way, but then when it became
another way, the answer wasn't so obvious. Right, So that's
something that the people.
Speaker 3 (38:46):
Nasty genius of the book, the original nonm wal whish
to great cursu to to another level.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
Okay, listen, I got a lot to ask you about
because were talking about the nick. Now we're gonna we're
about to jump into some mixed conversation in a minute.
But before we jump into that and a couple of
other things about this film, just gonna take a really
quick break and we will be back with more with
Spike Lee, I wanted to ask you about something in
(39:23):
terms of how you described this film, because I thought
this description was really, really incredible, And I forget what
interview you were doing when you said.
Speaker 3 (39:32):
It was describing as something was written.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
It was you describing this. You said, all right, this
is what you said that when it came because you
consider this film, even though it's based on a novel,
that this is not a remake, this is a reimagination.
And what you said is that you wanted to take
a quote jazz musicians approach to it and put some
(39:57):
hot sauce on it.
Speaker 3 (39:58):
What does that mean, Well, my beloved, my sister, their
tradition of great jazz musicians taking great workside an American
Soundbook and doing their reinterpretations of the song. The biggest thing,
(40:20):
the one I always go to is Julian Andrews singing
My favorite things sounding music. And what did Coltrane do
with that?
Speaker 2 (40:31):
You know?
Speaker 3 (40:31):
You know, this is along line of great jazzusicians who
have done reworking the reinterpretation of songs from the the
American sound Book. And so that's I said, Denzel and I,
you know, we were jazz musicians, jazz musicians, and I'm
a son of a great jazz position Bill Lee. So
(40:53):
that was that was I say that if I want
to understand the difference between a re make and a reinterpretation.
That's why the title is this film is not called
High and Low. It's called The Highest Two Lows. And
the two is a letter too. And that's a shout
(41:13):
out to Prince because many times, you know, you'll flip it,
you know, and use numbers for words. Us a shout
out to my brother. Did you ever meet him?
Speaker 1 (41:25):
I don't think I did.
Speaker 3 (41:26):
Yeah, I think about all the time and Michael too.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
You know, yeah I missed. I actually would have had
an opportunity to meet him. He when the National Association
of Black Journalists convention was in Minneapolis, Prince actually made
himself available to a few select journalists black journalists that
were there, including a mutual fraend we have, Michael Wilbon.
(41:53):
And yeah, so I was supposed to be in that group,
but I had a exclusive interview with ray Rice and
that's why I couldn't. I couldn't. I had I was
working at ESPN, so I had to go do that
interview because yeah, so I had an interview with him
(42:14):
that was exclusive and set in stone, and so I
could not make it to Minneapolis to meet with to
meet with Prince.
Speaker 3 (42:21):
If you could do it again, I know, I know,
I know.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
It's like, if I could do it again, I would say,
Ray Rice, could you do this next Tuesday? If I
could do it again?
Speaker 9 (42:36):
Right?
Speaker 1 (42:37):
But duty calls as a journalist sometimes, Uh yeah, but
you know it just happened that way. But you know,
you had the opportunity to have to meet him. I
saw the picture I think you might have they Jimmy
Fallon might have showed you of you and Prince.
Speaker 3 (42:54):
Next to the last time in the All Star again
was at the Garden, so somew I think the person
that had a she sit together for that. Yeah, we had.
I mean, man, Prince was so funny. His unimor was hilarious.
(43:15):
Everybody said watching the game he was He said, what
is that? Where is that? Sister? Warning? Oh man, I missed,
I missed, I missed. We had that night. I wish
I could recorded that. Man, we were We weren't even
looking at the gate. They were just sitting next to
(43:39):
other and cracking up. Well.
Speaker 1 (43:45):
As you said earlier, your film career is now spanned
almost forty years, which is crazy to me.
Speaker 3 (43:52):
She's having nineteen eighty six.
Speaker 1 (43:54):
Yeah, that is crazy. So looking back at your career here,
what is a Spikey joint that you'd love to redo? Like,
if you could go back and say, you know what,
I'd love to redo it, do that and do it differently?
What movie would that be?
Speaker 3 (44:16):
Did give you an eyes answer? I don't think like that.
You know, there's nothing like we were growing up and
playing a game we say do over, do over, do over,
no doovers, and you have to learn from mistakes, be humble,
enough to learn mistakes, don't repeat it, and keep it moving,
(44:38):
Keep it moving. Because here's the thing now, I'm glad
you brought this up with my sister, my beloved. There's
no way I will reach three ninety. No way I'm
going to reach forty. Doesn't know I could reach forty
years doing films. If I'm thinking about doovers, I mean,
(45:01):
you gotta well for me. Also, I'm seeing my stuff.
I can't get stuck in the past. Keep it moving now. Now, look,
people do what they want, but I'm on the other
side of the zoom and that's always been good, right
and wrong. Keep it moving, keep it moving, keep it moving,
(45:23):
keep it moving, all right?
Speaker 1 (45:25):
So what's the spike Okay, well, what's the what's the
spike Lee joint? You think deserves a prequel that's the
same as the sequels, I mean not quite.
Speaker 3 (45:42):
It's a bat here something I will tell you which
you might find might find interesting. The day School Days
came out in the theaters, people telling me that should
be a Broadway show, And now it was that School
Days was nine eighty eight, and people still say that
(46:05):
do school is as a just blow away music. And
I'm gonna do hopefully one day I do that.
Speaker 1 (46:12):
Well, you see how they did the color purple.
Speaker 3 (46:15):
Yeah, I can't believe anybody else. It's me And right
now I just have not felt that I wanted to
do that. But I just want to say that the
public is wanted since first day that came out in
the theaters. So we'll see what happens.
Speaker 1 (46:35):
So if a prequel is kind of like a sequel,
is there a Spikely movie you would have wanted to
do a sequel too? I feel like I know the
answer to this one, but go ahead.
Speaker 7 (46:45):
No.
Speaker 3 (46:45):
But here's they know people asked the day he Got
game came out, He Got. Let me tell you this,
I can't remember the number of NBA players who asked
you about that. Also, here's a tricky thing, the sneaky
thing during the game. You know, look they don't go
(47:09):
there's a foul and the rest where they don't go,
get on the line already to take a free though
slow the years set the players just on the slide,
just walk next to my seats up. You're like that
they're not looking at me, but they got the voice
(47:31):
where they look at me, but the sound comes off
the back of their neck. Was it the sequel that
was like, motherfuck.
Speaker 9 (47:43):
Where I'll tell you there's a ventrolic because they didn't
behave because I'm like, right, I don't know who's talking.
If I had, I wish I had a dollar in
(48:04):
every player since that thought came out and asked.
Speaker 3 (48:08):
Me to be in there.
Speaker 1 (48:12):
Dick I do know, Skylar Dickens.
Speaker 3 (48:13):
Yep, yes, you was the first woman that says spaking
to do that and close she's gonna have it. She
was the first sister, the first lady, and wated to
say that she has been the last.
Speaker 1 (48:25):
So I was told though along those same lines, because
I think it's been brought up before that if you
entertained it, it would be she's got game right. And
so I'm I heard somewhere that Marion Jones was somebody
that you might have been considering for that when she
was to track the track Mary Jones?
Speaker 5 (48:47):
Is that true?
Speaker 3 (48:49):
No, that's not true.
Speaker 1 (48:50):
That is not true.
Speaker 3 (48:50):
Okay, why would I look?
Speaker 1 (48:55):
Well she I mean, yeah, Marion did play basketball. She
won a national championship of Carolina.
Speaker 5 (49:02):
She did.
Speaker 3 (49:04):
And did she went to live me the.
Speaker 1 (49:07):
So she she left basketball. Because a lot of people
were very critical of this. She won a national championship
in nineteen ninety four with the Tar Heels Women's basketball
She stopped playing basketball to pursue a track career.
Speaker 3 (49:22):
I don't remember that, but that bad I never heard.
That's oh, I believe that, But I never got her connected.
Speaker 1 (49:32):
To She's Got Game.
Speaker 3 (49:34):
Possibly it might be true. I forgot about it, but
I remember Skyland.
Speaker 1 (49:40):
Definitely, right, yep, Skylet Diggins.
Speaker 3 (49:44):
Did she get hurt for wall or something like that?
What happened?
Speaker 1 (49:47):
She had a baby? Yeah, so she had a baby.
Speaker 3 (49:51):
Where she was not playing. Yeah, but you know, I executive,
I was loving basketball, So there's definitely a room for
something there. But that's one of the films I did
(50:12):
with Denzel Well, he Got a Game.
Speaker 1 (50:15):
Since you brought up how many NBA players, like, hey, yo,
put me in the sequel or whatever? Did you ever
think about doing a feature film project with your boy Michael.
Speaker 3 (50:25):
Jordan a document or narrative?
Speaker 1 (50:31):
No, not a documentary, but like making him an actor, like.
Speaker 3 (50:40):
First of all, funny story, the first commercial we did
Mars Blackman. I mean these commercials really putting Nike in
this stratus here, I must might do like one hundred
dunks the next year, he's just bike. I'm giving you
(51:07):
to motherfucking dunks and you better get it. Motherfucker. Oh
I've had I'm the pleasure of being called a motherfucker
many times? Is don that motherfucker the I don't prove it.
(51:31):
We called a motherfucker my mind.
Speaker 1 (51:34):
I mean very people.
Speaker 3 (51:35):
I'm thinking, like, call me motherfuck one more time. It
sounds great because my brother would say it was so
much love. Now I got the good motherfucker. I know
there's another motherfucker. He never I never got that one.
I never got that glass, Thank you Jesus.
Speaker 1 (52:02):
Yeah, I can't say I see Mike as an actor
to be I say that I see Michael Jordan as
an actor. I can't.
Speaker 3 (52:09):
I can't say you never had the patients for a movie. Yeah,
that's why I because he that for shooting commercial. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (52:19):
Well, since we are on the topic of the NBA,
let's go let's talk about your Nicks.
Speaker 3 (52:26):
All right, we are New York, we're not basketball.
Speaker 1 (52:32):
For got the words, So how did you feel about them?
Firing time Thibodeau.
Speaker 3 (52:41):
I felt bad for him.
Speaker 1 (52:42):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 3 (52:43):
Great coach, great man and sports a tough business and
Leon Rose and Worldwide West and other individuals felt that
a change had to be made. You know, I wasn't
happy that this happened, but the talk was that change
(53:09):
might be made. Last year, the next starters led the
league in minutes and became a question of utledge? Is
that the word utlage usage? Yeah? Thank you? You know
I got that Brooklyn Public School education usage of the bench.
(53:35):
I have nothing to say that about my brother, coach
tips if I saw him right now getting a big
hug and a kiss on the cheet, you know. And
I know, although I know about him, I don't think
he's venteful. I think he wants to win in the
next win champions and he and he he built, he
built this team.
Speaker 4 (53:55):
You know.
Speaker 3 (53:56):
He look it's tough business, but.
Speaker 5 (54:00):
Not me.
Speaker 3 (54:01):
These other people want this. This is all this all
we're gonna get with him. But what the record state
anywhere we go? You know, the foundation was built with
him in what five years there so? And also be honest,
we haven't won since seventeen seventy three, seas, it's been
over fifty years, and I just like to make a
(54:23):
comment on that. May I go right ahead, that's been
too motherfucking long. Want to tele like WHOA, that's generational.
And look, I've said as many times I don't want
(54:43):
anybody get hurt. I was not jumping up and down
about the career, what could be the career, not career,
but excuse me, year ending. Oh that was a mistake.
I meant my career year injuries with Halliburton. I saw Jason,
(55:07):
my brother, this summer in Marlin's vineyard and game a
big hug, a couple of little jokes. But I don't
want nobody to get hurt. And it seems as the
East Eastern Division is But don't sleep out the Lando
Young Boys dare, but we should. I'm not. I'm not
(55:29):
worried about Cleveland. They went out the first round. Yeah,
but you never you never know what's gonna happen in sports.
But it's this saint thing here, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (55:46):
Mm hmm. So, Spike, I always end every podcast with
what I call a messy question designed to make ready.
Speaker 3 (55:55):
I'm born already, war already you are.
Speaker 1 (55:57):
You were born ready. So there is a lot of
speculation that things may not ultimately end well between Lebron
and the Lakers, given the structure of what his new
extension is. They're looking at Luca as their future. They
have to deprioritize Lebron and I wonder, as a lifelong
(56:20):
Knicks fan, would you like to see Lebron as a
Nick before his career ended.
Speaker 3 (56:29):
You know, I don't like that. I think that that question.
But I guess speaking private to my man Richie form
because my man is doing it. Yeah, people are hating
on him. He doesn't have this distance that and my man,
I ain't got nothing but love my brother Richie. He's
(56:52):
doing his thing, rich Paul. Yeah, he's doing his thing.
And look, who knows what's going to happen. But you
know sports, you don't know what's gonna happen. And but
people New York, I can say this. People in New
(57:12):
York do still hold have a certain feeling about that
whole thing where they had the press conference. People think
it's coming to the next thing. It's like the Oakie Dope,
the flim Flam.
Speaker 1 (57:29):
I'm sure you read the backstory of what happened in
that meeting.
Speaker 3 (57:36):
I don't want to go into that right now.
Speaker 1 (57:39):
Yeah, I'm like, they couldn't tag you in, Like.
Speaker 3 (57:46):
Just I know we have to end this, but I
just want you to know that I have a glow
around me. It's orange and blue. But the thing that
is not the glow is not seen to the public. Well, Spike,
so let me finish this the quote Donald Bird the Blackbirds,
(58:11):
I'm walking on rhythm and well who met heard that classic?
Look it up, Donald Bird and the Blackbirds walking in rhythm?
Speaker 1 (58:24):
Okay, you know you so you know that's all right,
you know that's all yes that jam Oh well, Spike,
thank you for spending with me here on politics. It's
always a pleasure when we have a conversation. I'm not
gonna take it personally that when you were naming off
all the teams in the East, you didn't mention my team,
the fistess. But that's okay, that's all right, Okay, so.
Speaker 3 (58:48):
We not let's not talk about the playoffs series.
Speaker 1 (58:52):
Yeah, let's not talk about it because I still ain't
over it.
Speaker 3 (58:54):
And there's a red call something happened like that.
Speaker 1 (58:59):
Yes, it's would have been a foul, Okay.
Speaker 3 (59:03):
It should have. Gay four said real quick another beloved motown,
the people, the music you about.
Speaker 1 (59:16):
I can feel.
Speaker 3 (59:20):
From town and there, and people treat me great until
that last playoff game. You already quick, you already know,
oh my man was playing who out of there?
Speaker 1 (59:37):
Jan Breusset is a dirty word in Detroit right now,
trust me, Oh man, we I went to Game four.
We boot the ship out of him. Yeah, like we
of course he's a dirty word. His performance sadly it
did not. Sadly it did not, but it's all good.
(59:59):
We lost I think all the home games we lost
in that series by a total of six points.
Speaker 3 (01:00:04):
So we're not going to one of your guys get
in trouble with something.
Speaker 1 (01:00:08):
Yeah, Malik Beasley, he I don't think he'll be back
in the Pistols uniform. So, but that's a conversation for
another day.
Speaker 9 (01:00:15):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (01:00:16):
For now, Spike, thank you again for appearing here on politics. Everybody,
go see Highest to Lewest. Yes, go see it in
the theater. The theater experience, as always does trump uh
in many ways what you see at home and the
way it's shot, Like you.
Speaker 3 (01:00:32):
Got majority of your audience is African Americans.
Speaker 1 (01:00:36):
I would say a pretty high percentage.
Speaker 3 (01:00:39):
Well for those who are, please see the film in
the theater because you know how we act.
Speaker 6 (01:00:50):
All the dialogue in the movie, but don't be dial
the spring Denzel dunk dunk oh don't do a little bit.
You'll play by play commentary. You know how people are,
I know, I know.
Speaker 1 (01:01:10):
All right, Well, take care of Spike.
Speaker 3 (01:01:11):
I'll see you so thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:01:12):
All ready, one more segment to go coming up next,
the Final Spin. Time now for the final Spin, the
topic fitness personality. Jillian Michaels goes all Birth of a
(01:01:34):
Nation on CNN. The spin. White people weren't nearly as
deeply involved in slavery as historians have led us to believe. Unfortunately,
in the Year of Our Lord twenty twenty five, we
still have people providing defenses and excuses for slavery. Something
I thought we agreed was indefensible. He's white washing slavery.
Speaker 4 (01:01:55):
He not.
Speaker 5 (01:01:56):
No, he's not.
Speaker 1 (01:01:57):
And you cannot tie imperialism and racism and slavery. It
ad just one race, which is pretty much what every
single exhibit does. Well, let's talk about the fact that
when you fact slavery in America was only less than
two percent of white Americans own slaves, but it was.
Speaker 5 (01:02:15):
A system of nize that slavery is thousands.
Speaker 1 (01:02:18):
Of years old, the truth. I have to say, my
favorite pro slavery argument provided by people like Jillian Michaels is, Hey,
everybody was doing it. Slavery was all the rage. What
were we supposed to do? I mean, slavery was practically
the skinny genes of our time. As much as I
would love to take a sledgehammer to everything, Jillian Michael said,
(01:02:40):
it is far more effective for me to simply present
the only response that matters. From award winning journalist Nicole
Hannah Jones, author of the sixteen nineteen project Enjoy.
Speaker 7 (01:02:51):
Take the fewer than two percent of white people own
slaves at face value, though we know that number is
technically incorrect, and let's apply that standard to any other end.
Speaker 5 (01:03:01):
What percentage of.
Speaker 7 (01:03:01):
Americans own social media companies or technology companies such as Apple.
It's a tiny percentage. I'm doubtful if it's even one
percent of Americans. And yet no one would credibly argue
that social media companies are not ubiquitous across American life,
that they don't play a major influence on our political, social,
and economic life in America. And in fact, but we
(01:03:24):
know that more than seventy percent of Americans use social media,
though hardly any Americans own social media platform. There's a
reason that the heads of Meta Apple and Amazon, Google
and x all took part in Trump's inaugeration festivities, with
several of them standing on actual diies during Trump's inaugeration.
These men also happen to be amongst the wealthiest in
(01:03:46):
the world and demonstrate how a small cadre of super
wealthy men can have an outside impact on American politics
and culture.
Speaker 5 (01:03:54):
This is just critical thinking, y'all.
Speaker 7 (01:03:57):
So if we want to play the numbers game, the
much more more important measure is what percentage of Americans
owned slaves?
Speaker 5 (01:04:05):
No, but what percentage of those in power did so?
Here we go. Before eighteen sixty five.
Speaker 7 (01:04:13):
The end of slavery in the United States, sixty three
percent of US presidents had been slave owners at some
point in their lives. More than eighteen hundred members of
Congress owned slaves, meaning between seventeen eighty nine and eighteen nineteen,
more than half of the men elected to congreage each
session or slave owners.
Speaker 5 (01:04:31):
What about the Supreme Court?
Speaker 7 (01:04:33):
Twenty six of this nation's first thirty Supreme Court justices
were in slavers, and about half of all the Supreme
Court justices before the Civil War were in slavers.
Speaker 5 (01:04:43):
So many Supreme Court justices were in slavers. That if
we added up all the Supreme Court justices coming all
the way to this present court, one out of four
of all.
Speaker 7 (01:04:53):
Supreme Court justices in this nation's history were in slavers.
I mean, let's just look at our money with one
of the people on our cash currency engaged in African slavery.
Look at the one dollar bill, two dollar bill, ten,
twenty fifty, one hundred.
Speaker 5 (01:05:09):
All these men engages slavery. Slavery.
Speaker 7 (01:05:11):
Excuse me, it's weird that we didn't value all those
non slave holding white people enough to put them on
our money. The majority of the most powerful men in
this country, the men who made the federal laws, interpreted
the laws, and enforced the laws, built their wealth on
African slavery. And I assure you that number says much
more about the country we had habit than that two percent.
(01:05:34):
But let's not stop there, because even limiting the boundaries
of the conversation to those who owned other human beings
is highly misleading. Much like technology today, slavery in the
United States was a national endeavor that undergirded not just
our political system, but our entire economy.
Speaker 5 (01:05:52):
During the height of slavery.
Speaker 7 (01:05:53):
It was not the Northeast, you know, Boston or New York,
but the Mississippi River Valley and the Deep South that
had more millionaires per capita than anywhere in via nation, and.
Speaker 5 (01:06:03):
The Confederacy, had it succeeded at.
Speaker 7 (01:06:05):
Being a separate country, would have been the fourth richest
nation in the world when the Civil War started.
Speaker 1 (01:06:11):
Now, this concludes another episode of Politics. You can reach
me across most social media platforms at Jamail Hill or
via email. Please use the hashtags politics if you email me,
the addresses Politics twenty twenty four at gmail dot com.
Don't forget to follow and subscribe to his politics on
iHeart and follows Politics Pod on Instagram and TikTok. Politics
is spelled s PO l t c s. A new
(01:06:34):
episode of Politics straps every Thursday on iHeart podcast or
wherever you get your podcasts. This is politics where sports
and politics don't just mix, They matter. Politics is the
production of iHeart Podcasts and The Unbothered Network. I'm your
host Jamel Hill. Executive producer is Taylor Chakoigne. Lucas Hyman
(01:06:59):
is head of audio and the executive producer. Original music
first Politics provided by Kyle VISs from wiz fx
Hey, what's up, everybody. I'm Jamel Hill and welcome to politics.
And I heard podcasts and unbothered production. Time to get spolitical.
I will never fully understand why people love to give
(00:20):
a fuck when it's simply not their turn to give
a fuck. Shout out to Buck Morland. Now, this sudden
outrage by people, from politicians to fans over the existence
of male cheerleaders in the NFL would be hilarious if
it wasn't so rooted in stupidity. The Minnesota Vikings announced
their cheerleading squad, and it sent a bunch of people
(00:41):
straight off an emotional cliff because, behold, there were two
male cheerleaders on the team. The comments section on the
Vikings announcement was as enlightened as you might expect. One
fan wrote, I just lost all respect for the Vikings.
Another fan chimed in, I'm not a Vikings fan, no more.
(01:01):
Fragility was on a thousand and of course, because Republicans
can't resist a good, unimportant culture war, Alabama Senator Tommy
Tuberville came flying off the top rope to express his
disgust for male cheerleaders.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Take the men out of men's sports, just what they're doing.
I hope to god it doesn't come south.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
I don't know that that's been a problem in the
state of Minnesota.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
It is about pushing a narrative that you want to
put gender into sports. Let everybody know that we're trying
to show that, Hey, we're going to take the masculinity.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Out of a little bit.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
We are all Americans, and don't push that. Then you're
gonna have a huge problem. It's coming.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Oh no, male cheerleaders, What is we going to do?
What about the kids? What about the damn kids? If
only Tommy Tuberville were as much of an expert on
the three branches of government as he is on male cheerleaders.
Speaker 4 (01:52):
You know that our government wasn't set up for one
group to have all three of branches of government. They
wasn't shut up that way, or our three branch the
House to say it, and the.
Speaker 5 (02:04):
Executive I can hear you. You're trailing off And did
I catch a niner in there? Were you calling from
alwalkie talkie?
Speaker 1 (02:10):
So Tommy Tupperville not an expert on government or male cheerleading. Now,
if a cheerleader, male or female, takes away your enjoyment
of the game that says more about your team than
it says about the cheerleaders themselves. But since we're here,
let me short circuit the three brain sales that Tommy
Tupperville has. From the eighteen hundreds well into the nineteen
(02:30):
twenties and nineteen thirties, cheerleading actually was considered a man sport.
It was an elite activity for men, especially for those
who attended Ivy League schools. A newspaper editor wrote this
about cheerleading in nineteen eleven. The reputation of having been
a valiant cheerleader is one of the most valuable things
a boy can take away from college as a title
(02:52):
to promotion in professional or public life. It ranks hardly
second to that of having been a quarterback. Let that
sink in now. Obviously, there was a shift during the
Second World War. Women began assuming the cheerleading roles because
the men were at war. This actually created some friction
between men and women once men returned from the war,
(03:15):
because a lot of them wanted their pomp poms back.
When you study the history, there were some pretty important
male figures who were once cheerleaders, including many of the
men who are deeply admired by the Republican Party, Ronald Reagan,
George W. Bush, Dwight D. Eisenhower. Although this is probably
(03:36):
my favorite male cheerleader of all time.
Speaker 5 (03:38):
Enough is enough.
Speaker 6 (03:40):
I have had it with these motherfucking snakes on this
mother fucking play.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
As far as the NFL is concerned, they've had male
cheerleaders since twenty eighteen, with the Rams being the first
team to do so, and this season there will be
twelve teams who have male cheerleaders. But looking at the reaction,
it's clear that what is really bothering some people is
how some male cheerleaders present themselves. There are plenty of
male cheerleaders in college sports as well, but the reason
(04:07):
no one raises an eyebrow is because we see the
majority of them lifting and throwing young women in the air,
and what they represent are feats of strength. But the
male cheerleaders on the Vikings don't fit that description. They're
dancing and probably looking a little too happy for some folks.
Liking R. K. Russell, a former NFL player, wrote this
(04:28):
about the cheerleading in the Guardian. This isn't about performance
at all. It's about presence. It's about the mere existence
and visibility of men on NFL cheer squads who don't
conform to the rigid, outdated ideas of masculinity that so
many youth sport and football in particular to defend. The
right is constantly accusing the left of being soft and
(04:50):
being the culture war warriors, when time and again is
the right that's lighting their nikes on fire because of
Colin Kaepernick shooting bud like mirror cans and now wowing
to disavow their favorite sports teams over male cheerleaders. And
it's simply because the existence of other people in viewpoints
don't fit their neuro point of view, and basically it
(05:10):
just simply ain't they turn to give a fuck. I'm
Jammel Hill, and I approve this message. Today's guest is
one of my favorite folks, and he also happens to
be an award winning director whose films the last forty
years have expanded what we think of black life and
given us such cultural gems as do the Right Thing,
Mo Better Blues, you Know, The Bus, Jungle Fever, Inside Man,
(05:32):
twenty fifth Hour, among others. When it's time to go there,
he afraid to go there. He's got a new film
coming out called highest to Lois, which would be his
fifth with one of the greatest living actors of our time,
Denzel Washington. Coming up next on politics, Spike Lee, Spike,
(05:59):
thank you, thank so much for joining me here on politics.
I will start this podcast with a question that I
feel like you are going to completely knock out of
the park. It is a question I ask every guest
that appears, and that is name an athlete or a
moment that made you first love sports. Maybe do what
meant that made you first love sports.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
I was too young to remember, but I remember my
father taking me the old Guarniushman Avenue. Remember my father
taking me to Shape stam I remember my father taking
the old Yankee Stamens. The New York Giants were horrible,
and I think white tatoes that I was cold. I
was like daddy, we had a blanket, were I sailh
(06:45):
My god. But I come from the era where fathers
took their sons, how much later daughters at an early
age and introduced from sports. He always told about his holders,
about his high school heroics and basketball and football and
(07:06):
all that stuff. But growing up in Brooklyn, my guys
were Willie Mays, Ali walf Frasier. You know those those
were nameth, you know those were And then there's something
(07:27):
I don't know what described the word, but when you
meet your your boyhood heroes, I was never disappointed because
I was grown and then to know that muhamma a
leads see my fields name is Willie May's Wold Fraser.
(07:47):
The one I really the four I was really still
close to is Wolf Fraser. He's my my, my favorite
still my favorite Nick of all time. So we're not
gonna talk about basketball, because you know what's happening. You know,
we talked about.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
We are definitely going to talk about some basketball because
I did go to NBA Summer League and I ran
into your new coach, Mike Davis, and I ran it
to your new coach, Uh not Mike Davis, Mike Brown. Sorry,
Mike Brown ran into your new coach and also Rick Brunson,
and uh, you know, so it was a lot of
(08:27):
Nick flavor that was there. So I will a little
bit later on.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
It was it's called all the Blue Sky.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
We will definitely get to a conversation about the Knicks,
but before we get there, at the risk of this
conversation starting in an awkward place, one thing I don't
like to do with my viewers or my listeners or
what have you, is playing their face. And of course
people know that you and I work together on the
(08:58):
Kalan Kaepernick documentary. I've seen said on the red carpet.
I know that you are very limited in what you
can say.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
I did.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
It's not an NBA, but out of respect for obviously
you and Colin, I'm not speaking out of school. And
so what I would say is, I wanted to take
this opportunity to thank you one for allowing me to
work on this project and for giving me a real
insider view to your process, to how it all works
(09:28):
as I dip deeper into production and understanding what that is.
And so I wanted to take an opportunity to thank
you for that in person, and also just to say
to people out there who are maybe watching this from befar,
you know, don't believe every narrative that you see.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
And also and also thank you. Here's the thing, though
this thing happened more than a year ago, and the
reason I never asked about it, and so it was
on the red carpet for the Pump Brothers thing, I
just said, what happened I mean it wasn't. I was
(10:10):
trying to blow up the spot, but because no one's
heard anything sort of way to report like this just
blew up. Well, I said it was more than a
year ago that that this, you know what, this unfortunate
thing happened. So it's not it's not like now there's
nobody said nothing, and I ain't never asked because no
(10:33):
one knew. It was just like that's all it was.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Yeah, well, I will say this. I do you. I
can be naive or foolish for believing this, but I'm
hoping that people do get to see this one day.
I'm hoping that.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
Too, you know. And I'd just like to say that,
you know, on your on your platform, your show, I
loved the love for yourself and you know, Pat is
just Colin. You know, it's all love. It's all love,
and you know, artistical things sometimes, you know, it doesn't
come together. So I've seen, you know, at the the
(11:16):
Black met thing where we Negros took over the disease
we gave you to the Big Hulk. So it's all
love us, all love.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Okay, Well, I'm glad you were able to to throw
that out there and set the record straight. But now
let's talk about Highest to lowis, which I had an
opportunity to see myself beautifully shot of course, and and
just well done overall. You of course you collaborated for
(11:47):
the fifth time with Denzel Washington, who I have to say,
I need to know this bike. Who was it that
convinced Denzel to wrap?
Speaker 3 (11:59):
Did? He was just creative?
Speaker 1 (12:00):
License was that something You're like, hey man, I'm gonna
need you to drop some bars. Denzel wrapping was the
unexpected treat I didn't know I deserved.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
Well, it's a Jesus. This is genius because there was.
It was never intended to be the way it was
written to turn around the battle. And but Denzel is
an honest artist and gordeous feeling knew that this something
(12:35):
extras needed to hear this. This is a showdown, I knew.
And so in the middle we're rolling the camera and
Danzel starts dropping bars from naz is ellmatic. I'm looking
at my it's not what the seeson about. And also
(13:02):
I get I gotta give my love the shot because
he didn't miss a step. So when denzels are dropping, boss.
Speaker 6 (13:16):
A still got into you had to get this character
at one point the line of like, well, this is
a rap battle, and it lifted.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Here's the thing, though we have a great scene, it
lifts the whole movie and just amplified this thing between
Denzel's character, his character David King, and Ace's character young Fella.
They just took the film in the stratosphere because just
(13:50):
like you said, you aren't the only one who's surprised. Man,
People are like, damn, is it anything that you can't do?
Speaker 5 (14:00):
The ball little rapper.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
That's He's Jordan's Jordan.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
He's the Jordan of acting.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
He is Michael Joseph Jordan. I mean, it's says when
you see somebody on that level, and this is I mean,
this is our fifth film together, hopefully it won't be
the last. It was just and they were going at
it too. You know, Denzel, come with something, Rocky, come
(14:40):
back with it. Then I can't stay before. Boy, he's
a guy like it, what is this a rap battle?
Speaker 7 (14:50):
Now?
Speaker 1 (14:51):
I think for a lot of people that have followed
asap Rocky, they will also be pretty surprised, I think
by his his performance only because we we've see him
as a rapper, so we know he you know, we
know that he can do that, but he brought up
an extra correct So what was it about him that
made him a fit for this role?
Speaker 3 (15:14):
Well, I was it's been on my raider, my radar.
My wife produced the film with him in earlier also
that John David Washington started and I brought him in
to read with Denzel. We try to fake it like
(15:38):
it's not an audition, but Rocky knew it was. And
it was Denzel's found decision. You know, is it good
enough that being in sea with me and we see
the result, we see the result.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
Didn't help barked this project to you. So what was
What were your first impressions when you saw what he
wanted to do when you saw the script.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
Well, he didn't tell me what the script was. Advice
someone to send it to you. FedEx so weird tomorrow
and before I humped the phone on it was doing it.
I even know what it was. But if my brother
for money on the Mount Vernon, I want to reach
out to his brother from the people Proba Brooklyn. We
(16:34):
had not worked insight man was eighteen nineteen years ago
and not seen that long. But it was Yeah, I
didn't realize that either. I was like, wow, it is
that much time? Yeah? Then I did not know and
left the time had elapsed, so I didn't even I
mean I even recognized the phone number. Man picked it up.
(16:55):
I said, who this means it's by Yoyos, this is
D So it was a blessing and he said, you
know as much indeuableblisy. You know, he said this, this
is New York and distills about New York, the ships
about New York. And and I trust to love Spike
to That's why I call him.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
M You know, so many people have made note for
understandable reasons, of the chemistry that you all have together.
Denzel is now behind the camera himself as a director.
So what do you think that he may have learned
from working with you that he is brought to his directing.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
And you would have to answer, I've learned not to
speak for my brother, and I don't want to make
that mistick again. Guy, I do hope we want to
do another more films. You, my sister, my beloved, you
have to ask question yourself.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
To touche now. But you have heard Denzel talk about
retiring and.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
And that's why I was saying were last film? And
after you said that, then that red he's doing the
more four films, signing up four. So I pray that
this stiff film would not be the last one. We'll
do a six. I'm not saying no more that this
film be the last film work. I thought it was hired,
(18:33):
or at least he said it was hired. Well, what
he must have changed his mind? So about you know,
I'm still in the game. So you know, I'm hoping,
but hope.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
Well, I mean, since we're talking about retirement, Spike, how
much longer do you want to do this?
Speaker 3 (18:55):
So the wheel meet this to set? All right, I'm ready,
all right, So.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Basically, as long as you can say action, you're gonna
do it.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
Oh action and also.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
God, So I'm gonna flip the question on you. I
asked you what you thought Denzel might have learned from you.
I'm gonna ask you, then, what do you think you
have learned from Denzel that has made you a better director?
Speaker 3 (19:42):
Well, I don't know how anyone who had a pleasure
and honor to direct this man wife feels the greatest
living after no respect to my brother, Naro, my brother,
But you know, I don't think that it'scorre Sasy would
(20:08):
take that you know as look, it's all love. I
don't think that the love of you have in sports
about who's to goat, you know, especially this is exploded
with Michael and Lebron. Now, I don't think that's in
film and TV as a ways in sports. So I love,
(20:29):
I mean, I mean the narrow he invited me to
his birthday party, you know, the summer. So I mean
in Pacino, I got love everybody, but I've never worked
with I've never had the honor of working with you know,
his honor will work with Paccinos. I can only go
body who I worked with, and the Narrow is gonna
(20:52):
you know, is definitely gonna say Bob. If Siddler Mette
was alive, he would say Paccino. Francis would say random.
But I think that the relations we're talking about made
love or not not necessarily competition, you know. So that's
(21:16):
the for me, that's the big difference.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
With the experiences that you've had working with Denzel, How
does this one compare to the other times you have
worked together?
Speaker 3 (21:33):
That's the beautiful question and the honest answer. Each one
was different, the movies different, the scripts different, the people
in behind the camera different, we're different in our private lives.
Hopefully no not hopefully we've gotten older as we come
down here. We're like that now with the season grizzled veteran,
(22:00):
not the hot shot rookie with old heads that he's
thinking about. If you're a real great old head, you
pass on your knowledge. You notice, you know the sports,
those old heads spring train whatever. They susan, who's the
(22:22):
next phenom? They say, son, sit down here for sisters,
sem and then they break down the science. These are
the dudes and the don'ts and so then I we're
old heads. We're old heads. You know, next year will
be forty years since I've been doing future films. She's
(22:48):
Gonna Have It came out in nineteen eighty six, bamn,
And I think that I think this obligation for disperienced
people to pass on the nounce. But you know, it
may sound like hate. I'm not a lot of times
(23:09):
the young cash don't want to hear it. They think
they know, like they've been here before, and the old
has you know, like, look, I'm no one's paying me
to do it. So if you don't want to listen
to me, do what you gotta do. And many times
you end up making giant missteps. Now I'm not I'm
(23:34):
not talking about me. I'm just you know, especially they
heard it from Benzel. If you Dezel trying to tell
you something and you ain't listening, no more responses, no
more responses? Is it crack is whack? I got you?
(23:57):
Crack it up? Right? How is it? How is it
that someone who's chief greatness over a longevity and you're
not listening. Motherfucker. You just got here. Yes, it showed up.
(24:25):
I don't understand that. And that's that's not just sports too.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
No, No, that's that's like across the board like that
that applies. But you, Spike, you have been young once,
you already know. It's why my grandmother used to say
all the time that youth is wasted on the young.
Jess to say that all the time. And the reason
why was because when you're young and you are ambitious,
and you have this strong desire to chart your own
(24:50):
course and path, you tend to get so locked in
that you kind of dismissed the wisdom that the people
who have been there and have gone through that same thing,
what they've been through. You make the mistake of thinking
that things are actually new under the sun when they
actually are not new under the sun.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
And also I'd like to say not to cut you up. Look,
I I've been different times in my life where exactly
what your sweet grandmother just said, grandmother's I'm going off
right here, just off topic, because my grandma put me
through more house and inn why you grabbed film school
(25:33):
and gave me seed money. But she's gonna have it.
For fifty years she taught art in this segregated South
Making Georgia and Atlanta, Georgia fifty years. I said this
before some people might be familiar with this. For fifty
is she never had one like for fifty is she
(25:55):
never had one white stuard. And fifty years she saved
the socialcurity checks for a grandchildren's education. And as she
would say, spiky, I was the first grandchild.
Speaker 8 (26:12):
So she uh, I mean, we could draw so much
if we're open from you know, the people who may sacrifice,
so we could just you know, sportsnalogy moved it down,
moved the ball further down.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
To the Goldman and I was. I listened to a
lot of people, but my grandmother, I'll say, yes, Mama, yes, mama, yes,
you know so there's just certain elders. It might be
a parent or grandfather, be your cousin, uncle, or neighbor.
That that if you're smart enough to listen to that
(27:00):
now is is dropping and incorporate that to help you
to maneuver, you know, as Prince said, this thing called life.
You know, so I'm giving up the grandmother's Why is
it grandmother's not grandfathers? Why is that for me?
Speaker 1 (27:23):
Grandfathers do too?
Speaker 3 (27:24):
I mean, I just my grandma is my grandmother?
Speaker 1 (27:27):
Okay? For me? It was mine. My grandma, my grandmother.
She had been married three times, so there was no
grandfather that I got a chance to know.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
Yeah, they were.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Deceased by the time I was born.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
She had three husbands.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
She had three husbands that they were you know what.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
One what you do is like that is what was
this in the South?
Speaker 8 (27:58):
Uh?
Speaker 1 (27:58):
No, it was not my grand mother. She was she
was born in Kentucky, but she migrated to Detroit. Right,
so today twy to.
Speaker 3 (28:10):
My she three times and they're all end of the dead.
Huh they handed up.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
I promise you this.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
Let me ask you one question, because what type of
sweet tea did you?
Speaker 5 (28:27):
Listen?
Speaker 1 (28:31):
I promise it was.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
Your grandma make was.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
You're about to mess around and walk me into a
true crime documentary.
Speaker 5 (28:45):
All three.
Speaker 3 (28:48):
Women to leave it on the porch and let let
the sun, let the leaves do the thing before it
is drunk.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
Now, two of the three died when they were already divorced.
I just want you to know that.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
Okay, three.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
I think the third one may have passed while they
were still married. And as far as I am, I
know no, no Sweet Tea was involved.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
Okay. So yeah, I mean that's a great story.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
That's that Fielmaker, that's that fieldmaker you. Uh. But you know,
since we were talking about young people and what they
can learn, uh, I'm curious, was there something and a
veteran tried to tell you that you didn't follow their
advice and it wound up backfiring on you.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
That never happened, Okay, And I'm not saying that that's
good or bad. Mostly Melville people's Davis, you know, Gordon Parks.
They encouraged me. Now, I don't know why that made choices,
but they never you know, give me here, son, let
(30:12):
me sit down, you know, teach you the game and
let me pull your coach. I never happened to me,
and I'm saying, well, it's good or bad. I'm saying,
they just they were, They're proud of me, encouraged me
and said keep keep it on, especially Ozzi especially, you know,
it was a lot of my films yea.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
The modern day compared.
Speaker 3 (30:35):
And then he was happy, you know, I was if
he was in that general rules in it too.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
Yeah, r d him and you had them both and
do the right thing and yeah, jungle jungle fever. I
was just saying, it was another two that I was
I was saying about so the of course, naturally I
saw this conversation pop up a lot when Sinners came out,
and there were a lot of comparisons to Ryan Coogler
(31:04):
and Michael B. Jordan with you and Denzel that they're
giving us the modern version of what you all have done.
Speaker 3 (31:12):
What did you think yet? Go ahead?
Speaker 1 (31:15):
What did you what did you think of those comparisons?
Speaker 3 (31:17):
Oh? First of all, I don't I didn't, you know,
I don't mess with that. But that Centers is such
as such, that's the best of my scene in years,
and that secrets where deal with the music going back
to our ancestors were thrown from other Africans brought here
(31:38):
here sixteen nineteen, brought here to to do. What they
did was just build this country free labor from cancine.
The warning can see at night. So I don't know
what all this bullshit woke stuff is. But to know,
here's the thing, though, my sister, our ancestors, our ancestors
(32:04):
had the decision to know that one day their lineage
would be free, and that they would not see that
in their lifetime, their parents' life and their grandparents but knew,
they knew one day that would you know that the
(32:30):
official bondage would be over? And sometimes look, I think
hosests are proud of us and something answers like.
Speaker 5 (32:40):
What the fuck would what you have done?
Speaker 3 (32:44):
We all love all love, all love and just And
I think that, Look, I'm only speaking for myself when
I think about my grandparents and what they saw would
be the extent of their life. They saw in their
grand that they were be hoping in a world where
(33:05):
they could do more, be free to do more. So
in the ancestors, our ancestors.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
Yeah, I agree with you about what you said about
that scene in Sinners, and I think I read later
on he had to really fight to keep that scene
in there because they wanted to cut it, and it
was a beautiful scene that obviously help people understand just
the through line of African music to what we see
today to hip hop. Like he's taken us on a
(33:42):
historical journey. You know, Ryan Coogler has been able to
set himself apart from a lot of directors. What do
you think it is about him that allows him to
set himself apart?
Speaker 3 (33:57):
Storyteller, a writer, director. He doesn't need somebody writing the
script for him to have a project. He writes his
own a writer, director, director, writer, and his co producer
is his lovely wife. So not that many people can
(34:20):
you know, work side by side to be married. I'm
not making any judge on just saying that that there
are that team solid challes a rock.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
Getting back the highest the lowest. For a minute, I
know what I took away from it because it really
helped me, or not helped me, but it really made
me think about not just the proliferation of stand culture,
but also the attention economy that we live in. What
are some of the things you want people to take
away when they watch this.
Speaker 3 (35:02):
To be honest with my sister, I really try to
reframe from telling people what they should expect. But I'm
going to make an exception for you because I love you.
Thank you this film which let's let's start here. There
was a novel called King's Ransom written by Ed mc
bain that was adapted by Couris Salah to make a
(35:26):
new film. So the original source is a novel called
King's Ransom, and for me, I went back there. I
read the book too. It's about morality and when you
have a dynamic, brilliant actor like mister Denzel Washington from
(35:52):
money Earner Mount Vernon, when the people when you when
you are on that level, the people watching the film
are they're trends poured it into Denzel's character. And when
(36:13):
that happens, you're you put yourself position like and I
what would I do if if I was in that situation?
And when you could do that, it's a god given gifts.
When people see this film and I knew it was happened,
and I've set in several oiences New York and LA
(36:37):
and you know, wake the lights down and then snuck in.
People are brought in. They're what Danzel's doing. They're going
through now and they ask themselves what would they do
if they were in that situation about morals and scruples,
(37:01):
And it's not a blanket answer. People gonna answer that
question depending upon who they are, what their values are.
But it's thrilling to be in that ride that that
gives us. Now there are some people will put their
(37:25):
mother on the corner. Other people will chop up an
arm for the child, even a friend. So I found
that when you deal morality that just racist mistakes. For me,
(37:47):
that raises fake it mistakes. Everybody is engaged. Yeah, And
I would add to that that please do, please.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
Do, because because me and my husband we saw it
to yeather and we we debated about it, and I
think one of the things that comes out of that
it's not just what your moral code is, is what
is your moral code when you don't have skin in
the game?
Speaker 5 (38:15):
Right?
Speaker 3 (38:15):
It's like because then it's ah, then it gets.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
A little shaky, right, because yeah, because you could say
what you would do for you and yours, but if
you and yours are not impacted, then what you're gonna.
Speaker 3 (38:27):
Do by blood too right? By by blood right correct?
Speaker 1 (38:32):
And so that I thought was a beautiful twist that
it was like, oh, because you the answer was obvious
when it was one way, but then when it became
another way, the answer wasn't so obvious. Right, So that's
something that the people.
Speaker 3 (38:46):
Nasty genius of the book, the original nonm wal whish
to great cursu to to another level.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
Okay, listen, I got a lot to ask you about
because were talking about the nick. Now we're gonna we're
about to jump into some mixed conversation in a minute.
But before we jump into that and a couple of
other things about this film, just gonna take a really
quick break and we will be back with more with
Spike Lee, I wanted to ask you about something in
(39:23):
terms of how you described this film, because I thought
this description was really, really incredible, And I forget what
interview you were doing when you said.
Speaker 3 (39:32):
It was describing as something was written.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
It was you describing this. You said, all right, this
is what you said that when it came because you
consider this film, even though it's based on a novel,
that this is not a remake, this is a reimagination.
And what you said is that you wanted to take
a quote jazz musicians approach to it and put some
(39:57):
hot sauce on it.
Speaker 3 (39:58):
What does that mean, Well, my beloved, my sister, their
tradition of great jazz musicians taking great workside an American
Soundbook and doing their reinterpretations of the song. The biggest thing,
(40:20):
the one I always go to is Julian Andrews singing
My favorite things sounding music. And what did Coltrane do
with that?
Speaker 2 (40:31):
You know?
Speaker 3 (40:31):
You know, this is along line of great jazzusicians who
have done reworking the reinterpretation of songs from the the
American sound Book. And so that's I said, Denzel and I,
you know, we were jazz musicians, jazz musicians, and I'm
a son of a great jazz position Bill Lee. So
(40:53):
that was that was I say that if I want
to understand the difference between a re make and a reinterpretation.
That's why the title is this film is not called
High and Low. It's called The Highest Two Lows. And
the two is a letter too. And that's a shout
(41:13):
out to Prince because many times, you know, you'll flip it,
you know, and use numbers for words. Us a shout
out to my brother. Did you ever meet him?
Speaker 1 (41:25):
I don't think I did.
Speaker 3 (41:26):
Yeah, I think about all the time and Michael too.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
You know, yeah I missed. I actually would have had
an opportunity to meet him. He when the National Association
of Black Journalists convention was in Minneapolis, Prince actually made
himself available to a few select journalists black journalists that
were there, including a mutual fraend we have, Michael Wilbon.
(41:53):
And yeah, so I was supposed to be in that group,
but I had a exclusive interview with ray Rice and
that's why I couldn't. I couldn't. I had I was
working at ESPN, so I had to go do that
interview because yeah, so I had an interview with him
(42:14):
that was exclusive and set in stone, and so I
could not make it to Minneapolis to meet with to
meet with Prince.
Speaker 3 (42:21):
If you could do it again, I know, I know,
I know.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
It's like, if I could do it again, I would say,
Ray Rice, could you do this next Tuesday? If I
could do it again?
Speaker 9 (42:36):
Right?
Speaker 1 (42:37):
But duty calls as a journalist sometimes, Uh yeah, but
you know it just happened that way. But you know,
you had the opportunity to have to meet him. I
saw the picture I think you might have they Jimmy
Fallon might have showed you of you and Prince.
Speaker 3 (42:54):
Next to the last time in the All Star again
was at the Garden, so somew I think the person
that had a she sit together for that. Yeah, we had.
I mean, man, Prince was so funny. His unimor was hilarious.
(43:15):
Everybody said watching the game he was He said, what
is that? Where is that? Sister? Warning? Oh man, I missed,
I missed, I missed. We had that night. I wish
I could recorded that. Man, we were We weren't even
looking at the gate. They were just sitting next to
(43:39):
other and cracking up. Well.
Speaker 1 (43:45):
As you said earlier, your film career is now spanned
almost forty years, which is crazy to me.
Speaker 3 (43:52):
She's having nineteen eighty six.
Speaker 1 (43:54):
Yeah, that is crazy. So looking back at your career here,
what is a Spikey joint that you'd love to redo? Like,
if you could go back and say, you know what,
I'd love to redo it, do that and do it differently?
What movie would that be?
Speaker 3 (44:16):
Did give you an eyes answer? I don't think like that.
You know, there's nothing like we were growing up and
playing a game we say do over, do over, do over,
no doovers, and you have to learn from mistakes, be humble,
enough to learn mistakes, don't repeat it, and keep it moving,
(44:38):
Keep it moving. Because here's the thing now, I'm glad
you brought this up with my sister, my beloved. There's
no way I will reach three ninety. No way I'm
going to reach forty. Doesn't know I could reach forty
years doing films. If I'm thinking about doovers, I mean,
(45:01):
you gotta well for me. Also, I'm seeing my stuff.
I can't get stuck in the past. Keep it moving now. Now, look,
people do what they want, but I'm on the other
side of the zoom and that's always been good, right
and wrong. Keep it moving, keep it moving, keep it moving,
(45:23):
keep it moving, all right?
Speaker 1 (45:25):
So what's the spike Okay, well, what's the what's the
spike Lee joint? You think deserves a prequel that's the
same as the sequels, I mean not quite.
Speaker 3 (45:42):
It's a bat here something I will tell you which
you might find might find interesting. The day School Days
came out in the theaters, people telling me that should
be a Broadway show, And now it was that School
Days was nine eighty eight, and people still say that
(46:05):
do school is as a just blow away music. And
I'm gonna do hopefully one day I do that.
Speaker 1 (46:12):
Well, you see how they did the color purple.
Speaker 3 (46:15):
Yeah, I can't believe anybody else. It's me And right
now I just have not felt that I wanted to
do that. But I just want to say that the
public is wanted since first day that came out in
the theaters. So we'll see what happens.
Speaker 1 (46:35):
So if a prequel is kind of like a sequel,
is there a Spikely movie you would have wanted to
do a sequel too? I feel like I know the
answer to this one, but go ahead.
Speaker 7 (46:45):
No.
Speaker 3 (46:45):
But here's they know people asked the day he Got
game came out, He Got. Let me tell you this,
I can't remember the number of NBA players who asked
you about that. Also, here's a tricky thing, the sneaky
thing during the game. You know, look they don't go
(47:09):
there's a foul and the rest where they don't go,
get on the line already to take a free though
slow the years set the players just on the slide,
just walk next to my seats up. You're like that
they're not looking at me, but they got the voice
(47:31):
where they look at me, but the sound comes off
the back of their neck. Was it the sequel that
was like, motherfuck.
Speaker 9 (47:43):
Where I'll tell you there's a ventrolic because they didn't
behave because I'm like, right, I don't know who's talking.
If I had, I wish I had a dollar in
(48:04):
every player since that thought came out and asked.
Speaker 3 (48:08):
Me to be in there.
Speaker 1 (48:12):
Dick I do know, Skylar Dickens.
Speaker 3 (48:13):
Yep, yes, you was the first woman that says spaking
to do that and close she's gonna have it. She
was the first sister, the first lady, and wated to
say that she has been the last.
Speaker 1 (48:25):
So I was told though along those same lines, because
I think it's been brought up before that if you
entertained it, it would be she's got game right. And
so I'm I heard somewhere that Marion Jones was somebody
that you might have been considering for that when she
was to track the track Mary Jones?
Speaker 5 (48:47):
Is that true?
Speaker 3 (48:49):
No, that's not true.
Speaker 1 (48:50):
That is not true.
Speaker 3 (48:50):
Okay, why would I look?
Speaker 1 (48:55):
Well she I mean, yeah, Marion did play basketball. She
won a national championship of Carolina.
Speaker 5 (49:02):
She did.
Speaker 3 (49:04):
And did she went to live me the.
Speaker 1 (49:07):
So she she left basketball. Because a lot of people
were very critical of this. She won a national championship
in nineteen ninety four with the Tar Heels Women's basketball
She stopped playing basketball to pursue a track career.
Speaker 3 (49:22):
I don't remember that, but that bad I never heard.
That's oh, I believe that, But I never got her connected.
Speaker 1 (49:32):
To She's Got Game.
Speaker 3 (49:34):
Possibly it might be true. I forgot about it, but
I remember Skyland.
Speaker 1 (49:40):
Definitely, right, yep, Skylet Diggins.
Speaker 3 (49:44):
Did she get hurt for wall or something like that?
What happened?
Speaker 1 (49:47):
She had a baby? Yeah, so she had a baby.
Speaker 3 (49:51):
Where she was not playing. Yeah, but you know, I executive,
I was loving basketball, So there's definitely a room for
something there. But that's one of the films I did
(50:12):
with Denzel Well, he Got a Game.
Speaker 1 (50:15):
Since you brought up how many NBA players, like, hey, yo,
put me in the sequel or whatever? Did you ever
think about doing a feature film project with your boy Michael.
Speaker 3 (50:25):
Jordan a document or narrative?
Speaker 1 (50:31):
No, not a documentary, but like making him an actor, like.
Speaker 3 (50:40):
First of all, funny story, the first commercial we did
Mars Blackman. I mean these commercials really putting Nike in
this stratus here, I must might do like one hundred
dunks the next year, he's just bike. I'm giving you
(51:07):
to motherfucking dunks and you better get it. Motherfucker. Oh
I've had I'm the pleasure of being called a motherfucker
many times? Is don that motherfucker the I don't prove it.
(51:31):
We called a motherfucker my mind.
Speaker 1 (51:34):
I mean very people.
Speaker 3 (51:35):
I'm thinking, like, call me motherfuck one more time. It
sounds great because my brother would say it was so
much love. Now I got the good motherfucker. I know
there's another motherfucker. He never I never got that one.
I never got that glass, Thank you Jesus.
Speaker 1 (52:02):
Yeah, I can't say I see Mike as an actor
to be I say that I see Michael Jordan as
an actor. I can't.
Speaker 3 (52:09):
I can't say you never had the patients for a movie. Yeah,
that's why I because he that for shooting commercial. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (52:19):
Well, since we are on the topic of the NBA,
let's go let's talk about your Nicks.
Speaker 3 (52:26):
All right, we are New York, we're not basketball.
Speaker 1 (52:32):
For got the words, So how did you feel about them?
Firing time Thibodeau.
Speaker 3 (52:41):
I felt bad for him.
Speaker 1 (52:42):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 3 (52:43):
Great coach, great man and sports a tough business and
Leon Rose and Worldwide West and other individuals felt that
a change had to be made. You know, I wasn't
happy that this happened, but the talk was that change
(53:09):
might be made. Last year, the next starters led the
league in minutes and became a question of utledge? Is
that the word utlage usage? Yeah? Thank you? You know
I got that Brooklyn Public School education usage of the bench.
(53:35):
I have nothing to say that about my brother, coach
tips if I saw him right now getting a big
hug and a kiss on the cheet, you know. And
I know, although I know about him, I don't think
he's venteful. I think he wants to win in the
next win champions and he and he he built, he
built this team.
Speaker 4 (53:55):
You know.
Speaker 3 (53:56):
He look it's tough business, but.
Speaker 5 (54:00):
Not me.
Speaker 3 (54:01):
These other people want this. This is all this all
we're gonna get with him. But what the record state
anywhere we go? You know, the foundation was built with
him in what five years there so? And also be honest,
we haven't won since seventeen seventy three, seas, it's been
over fifty years, and I just like to make a
(54:23):
comment on that. May I go right ahead, that's been
too motherfucking long. Want to tele like WHOA, that's generational.
And look, I've said as many times I don't want
(54:43):
anybody get hurt. I was not jumping up and down
about the career, what could be the career, not career,
but excuse me, year ending. Oh that was a mistake.
I meant my career year injuries with Halliburton. I saw Jason,
(55:07):
my brother, this summer in Marlin's vineyard and game a
big hug, a couple of little jokes. But I don't
want nobody to get hurt. And it seems as the
East Eastern Division is But don't sleep out the Lando
Young Boys dare, but we should. I'm not. I'm not
(55:29):
worried about Cleveland. They went out the first round. Yeah,
but you never you never know what's gonna happen in sports.
But it's this saint thing here, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (55:46):
Mm hmm. So, Spike, I always end every podcast with
what I call a messy question designed to make ready.
Speaker 3 (55:55):
I'm born already, war already you are.
Speaker 1 (55:57):
You were born ready. So there is a lot of
speculation that things may not ultimately end well between Lebron
and the Lakers, given the structure of what his new
extension is. They're looking at Luca as their future. They
have to deprioritize Lebron and I wonder, as a lifelong
(56:20):
Knicks fan, would you like to see Lebron as a
Nick before his career ended.
Speaker 3 (56:29):
You know, I don't like that. I think that that question.
But I guess speaking private to my man Richie form
because my man is doing it. Yeah, people are hating
on him. He doesn't have this distance that and my man,
I ain't got nothing but love my brother Richie. He's
(56:52):
doing his thing, rich Paul. Yeah, he's doing his thing.
And look, who knows what's going to happen. But you
know sports, you don't know what's gonna happen. And but
people New York, I can say this. People in New
(57:12):
York do still hold have a certain feeling about that
whole thing where they had the press conference. People think
it's coming to the next thing. It's like the Oakie Dope,
the flim Flam.
Speaker 1 (57:29):
I'm sure you read the backstory of what happened in
that meeting.
Speaker 3 (57:36):
I don't want to go into that right now.
Speaker 1 (57:39):
Yeah, I'm like, they couldn't tag you in, Like.
Speaker 3 (57:46):
Just I know we have to end this, but I
just want you to know that I have a glow
around me. It's orange and blue. But the thing that
is not the glow is not seen to the public. Well, Spike,
so let me finish this the quote Donald Bird the Blackbirds,
(58:11):
I'm walking on rhythm and well who met heard that classic?
Look it up, Donald Bird and the Blackbirds walking in rhythm?
Speaker 1 (58:24):
Okay, you know you so you know that's all right,
you know that's all yes that jam Oh well, Spike,
thank you for spending with me here on politics. It's
always a pleasure when we have a conversation. I'm not
gonna take it personally that when you were naming off
all the teams in the East, you didn't mention my team,
the fistess. But that's okay, that's all right, Okay, so.
Speaker 3 (58:48):
We not let's not talk about the playoffs series.
Speaker 1 (58:52):
Yeah, let's not talk about it because I still ain't
over it.
Speaker 3 (58:54):
And there's a red call something happened like that.
Speaker 1 (58:59):
Yes, it's would have been a foul, Okay.
Speaker 3 (59:03):
It should have. Gay four said real quick another beloved motown,
the people, the music you about.
Speaker 1 (59:16):
I can feel.
Speaker 3 (59:20):
From town and there, and people treat me great until
that last playoff game. You already quick, you already know,
oh my man was playing who out of there?
Speaker 1 (59:37):
Jan Breusset is a dirty word in Detroit right now,
trust me, Oh man, we I went to Game four.
We boot the ship out of him. Yeah, like we
of course he's a dirty word. His performance sadly it
did not. Sadly it did not, but it's all good.
(59:59):
We lost I think all the home games we lost
in that series by a total of six points.
Speaker 3 (01:00:04):
So we're not going to one of your guys get
in trouble with something.
Speaker 1 (01:00:08):
Yeah, Malik Beasley, he I don't think he'll be back
in the Pistols uniform. So, but that's a conversation for
another day.
Speaker 9 (01:00:15):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (01:00:16):
For now, Spike, thank you again for appearing here on politics. Everybody,
go see Highest to Lewest. Yes, go see it in
the theater. The theater experience, as always does trump uh
in many ways what you see at home and the
way it's shot, Like you.
Speaker 3 (01:00:32):
Got majority of your audience is African Americans.
Speaker 1 (01:00:36):
I would say a pretty high percentage.
Speaker 3 (01:00:39):
Well for those who are, please see the film in
the theater because you know how we act.
Speaker 6 (01:00:50):
All the dialogue in the movie, but don't be dial
the spring Denzel dunk dunk oh don't do a little bit.
You'll play by play commentary. You know how people are,
I know, I know.
Speaker 1 (01:01:10):
All right, Well, take care of Spike.
Speaker 3 (01:01:11):
I'll see you so thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:01:12):
All ready, one more segment to go coming up next,
the Final Spin. Time now for the final Spin, the
topic fitness personality. Jillian Michaels goes all Birth of a
(01:01:34):
Nation on CNN. The spin. White people weren't nearly as
deeply involved in slavery as historians have led us to believe. Unfortunately,
in the Year of Our Lord twenty twenty five, we
still have people providing defenses and excuses for slavery. Something
I thought we agreed was indefensible. He's white washing slavery.
Speaker 4 (01:01:55):
He not.
Speaker 5 (01:01:56):
No, he's not.
Speaker 1 (01:01:57):
And you cannot tie imperialism and racism and slavery. It
ad just one race, which is pretty much what every
single exhibit does. Well, let's talk about the fact that
when you fact slavery in America was only less than
two percent of white Americans own slaves, but it was.
Speaker 5 (01:02:15):
A system of nize that slavery is thousands.
Speaker 1 (01:02:18):
Of years old, the truth. I have to say, my
favorite pro slavery argument provided by people like Jillian Michaels is, Hey,
everybody was doing it. Slavery was all the rage. What
were we supposed to do? I mean, slavery was practically
the skinny genes of our time. As much as I
would love to take a sledgehammer to everything, Jillian Michael said,
(01:02:40):
it is far more effective for me to simply present
the only response that matters. From award winning journalist Nicole
Hannah Jones, author of the sixteen nineteen project Enjoy.
Speaker 7 (01:02:51):
Take the fewer than two percent of white people own
slaves at face value, though we know that number is
technically incorrect, and let's apply that standard to any other end.
Speaker 5 (01:03:01):
What percentage of.
Speaker 7 (01:03:01):
Americans own social media companies or technology companies such as Apple.
It's a tiny percentage. I'm doubtful if it's even one
percent of Americans. And yet no one would credibly argue
that social media companies are not ubiquitous across American life,
that they don't play a major influence on our political, social,
and economic life in America. And in fact, but we
(01:03:24):
know that more than seventy percent of Americans use social media,
though hardly any Americans own social media platform. There's a
reason that the heads of Meta Apple and Amazon, Google
and x all took part in Trump's inaugeration festivities, with
several of them standing on actual diies during Trump's inaugeration.
These men also happen to be amongst the wealthiest in
(01:03:46):
the world and demonstrate how a small cadre of super
wealthy men can have an outside impact on American politics
and culture.
Speaker 5 (01:03:54):
This is just critical thinking, y'all.
Speaker 7 (01:03:57):
So if we want to play the numbers game, the
much more more important measure is what percentage of Americans
owned slaves?
Speaker 5 (01:04:05):
No, but what percentage of those in power did so?
Here we go. Before eighteen sixty five.
Speaker 7 (01:04:13):
The end of slavery in the United States, sixty three
percent of US presidents had been slave owners at some
point in their lives. More than eighteen hundred members of
Congress owned slaves, meaning between seventeen eighty nine and eighteen nineteen,
more than half of the men elected to congreage each
session or slave owners.
Speaker 5 (01:04:31):
What about the Supreme Court?
Speaker 7 (01:04:33):
Twenty six of this nation's first thirty Supreme Court justices
were in slavers, and about half of all the Supreme
Court justices before the Civil War were in slavers.
Speaker 5 (01:04:43):
So many Supreme Court justices were in slavers. That if
we added up all the Supreme Court justices coming all
the way to this present court, one out of four
of all.
Speaker 7 (01:04:53):
Supreme Court justices in this nation's history were in slavers.
I mean, let's just look at our money with one
of the people on our cash currency engaged in African slavery.
Look at the one dollar bill, two dollar bill, ten,
twenty fifty, one hundred.
Speaker 5 (01:05:09):
All these men engages slavery. Slavery.
Speaker 7 (01:05:11):
Excuse me, it's weird that we didn't value all those
non slave holding white people enough to put them on
our money. The majority of the most powerful men in
this country, the men who made the federal laws, interpreted
the laws, and enforced the laws, built their wealth on
African slavery. And I assure you that number says much
more about the country we had habit than that two percent.
(01:05:34):
But let's not stop there, because even limiting the boundaries
of the conversation to those who owned other human beings
is highly misleading. Much like technology today, slavery in the
United States was a national endeavor that undergirded not just
our political system, but our entire economy.
Speaker 5 (01:05:52):
During the height of slavery.
Speaker 7 (01:05:53):
It was not the Northeast, you know, Boston or New York,
but the Mississippi River Valley and the Deep South that
had more millionaires per capita than anywhere in via nation, and.
Speaker 5 (01:06:03):
The Confederacy, had it succeeded at.
Speaker 7 (01:06:05):
Being a separate country, would have been the fourth richest
nation in the world when the Civil War started.
Speaker 1 (01:06:11):
Now, this concludes another episode of Politics. You can reach
me across most social media platforms at Jamail Hill or
via email. Please use the hashtags politics if you email me,
the addresses Politics twenty twenty four at gmail dot com.
Don't forget to follow and subscribe to his politics on
iHeart and follows Politics Pod on Instagram and TikTok. Politics
is spelled s PO l t c s. A new
(01:06:34):
episode of Politics straps every Thursday on iHeart podcast or
wherever you get your podcasts. This is politics where sports
and politics don't just mix, They matter. Politics is the
production of iHeart Podcasts and The Unbothered Network. I'm your
host Jamel Hill. Executive producer is Taylor Chakoigne. Lucas Hyman
(01:06:59):
is head of audio and the executive producer. Original music
first Politics provided by Kyle VISs from wiz fx
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My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January of 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. My Favorite Murder is part of the Exactly Right podcast network that provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics including historic true crime, comedic interviews and news, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.