Ep 45: The Politics of Adjustment - Featuring Donte’ Stallworth - Spolitics

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, what's up everybody. I'm Jamel Hill and welcome to
politics and iHeart podcast and unbothered production. Time to get spolitical.
So I need everybody to step to the front of
the class because as I wrap up this season is politics.

(00:23):
I need to go back to what I said at
the very beginning when I started this podcast. Sports and
politics are a thing. Now. There's so much happening in
the world right now that I know it often is
hard to keep up. But what we see in sports
is not different to what we're seeing in the quote
unquote real world. When it comes to sports. Donald Trump

(00:44):
is one of the most engaged presidents that we've ever seen.
He inserted himself in to live PGA golf discussions and
the effort to try to bring the two tours together.
He's met with former Alabama coach Nick Saban about changing
the college football landscape as it relates to NIL. He's
pressure Major League Baseball to let Pete Rose into the
Hall of Fame, and next Fourth of July weekend there's

(01:05):
going to be a UFC event held at the White House. Now,
there's a long history of sports mixing and mashing, often
in uncomfortable ways that challenged frankly what we believe. The
reason I wanted to do a Sports in Politics podcast
is not only to prove how much strength was in
that relationship, but also to show you how interconnected everything is.

(01:29):
Sports is actually one of the few things we still
do together. We've worshiped separately, we live separately, by and large,
we socialize separately. But look at what happens during a
sporting event, say something like the Olympics. We are united
and rooting for America, regardless of social or economic background.
That's the power of sports. There are political issues. We

(01:52):
probably would ignore it if our favorite athlete didn't give
voice to them. There are political issues we wouldn't challenge
ourselves to understand if it didn't impact a sport or
an athlete that we love. Sports inherently is about togetherness,
but it's also an opportunity to understand something that is
bigger than the world we occupy. At his core, sports

(02:15):
is about belief, determination, and the struggle that comes with
bringing out our unpolished greatness. This is what made me
dedicate my life to covering sports. Sure, I love the games,
I love the athletes, I love the arguments, I love
witnessing feats that seemed impossible. But more than anything, I
love that sports often helps us see something in ourselves

(02:39):
we didn't know we had. This is why politics was
a true passion, because sports and politics, to me, they
don't just mix, they actually matter. I'm Jamel Hill and
I approved this message. Now. My guest today is a
former pro football player who took an interesting path into
political commentary journalism. But among the many things I respect

(03:02):
about him beyond his curiosity about how systems work, is
he didn't let the worst moment of his life define him.
He used that moment to teach and inform others. Coming
up next on his politics Dante Salwork. Dante, want to

(03:28):
thank you for joining me for this episode of Spolitics.
I start every episode the same way, and that is
with this question to the guests, and that is name
a athlete or a moment that made you love sports.

Speaker 2 (03:42):
Jerry Rice.

Speaker 3 (03:44):
I grew up in Sacramento, California, and my first memory
of watching any NFL game was the Super Bowl. I
think it was an eighty eight where the forty nine
Ers were playing the Bengals and Jerry didn't score the
game when a touchdown John Taylor did, but Jerry Rice
was just consistent and he was just he was. He
was brutal in that fourth quarter against the Bengals, and

(04:04):
he really he and Montana really pushed him down there
and John Taylor finished finished the deal. But Jerry Rice
was always my absolute favorite player. But I had a
few others, but that specific player, that specific moment, Jerry
Rice in the Super Bowl against the Bengals, that was
that was big for me.

Speaker 1 (04:19):
Well as a forty nine er fan, I'm not mad,
so I do. I do appreciate that. Well, given that
you know that memory stands out for you somebody who
is I don't think just one of the greatest wide receiver,
but one of the greatest football players period. Was wide
receiver always the position you wanted to play.

Speaker 3 (04:37):
Jamil I grew up playing both cornerback and wide receiver,
and I remember specifically the moment when I knew that
I was going to be a wide receiver.

Speaker 2 (04:48):
Was I love the NFL? I was.

Speaker 3 (04:51):
I was that kid that could tell you the roster
of every team, every coach, every offense that was running
the statistics all that.

Speaker 2 (04:56):
I was that kid growing up. The cornerback was my thing. Position.
Charles Woodson Deon Sanders. Those guys.

Speaker 3 (05:04):
I thought I was Charles Woodson in high school when
he was at Michigan. Right, so another one of his squads.
So you know, well, actually I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (05:16):
I was about to get.

Speaker 2 (05:18):
Right right I thought about that. The brain was like, wait, no,
that's wrong, that's wrong.

Speaker 3 (05:22):
Uh, but uh yeah, Woodson is my guy. And so
corner was my favorite position, and I always told myself, yes,
I want the ball in my hands, but one I
can either do coverturn or kick return. But also determined
determining how good I was as a as a defender,
I can make my own place and you know, get
interceptions and things like that. So but the moment that

(05:42):
I realized that I needed to be a wide receiver
was watching Randy Moss and thinking back to all the
things that Jerry Rice was doing when when I was
a kid, and even when I got to college, watching
Jerry Rice and thinking about, I don't want to cover
those guys. I want to I want to run with
those guys like I don't want to have to cover
those dudes. So I always knew I was fast, and

(06:05):
I always knew that speed was going to be something
that I had in my toolbox, and so what better
position to play with speed and wide receiver? And I
love wide receiver, but corner was always and even still
today is one of my.

Speaker 2 (06:20):
Is my number one, that's my heart. Cornerback.

Speaker 1 (06:23):
Now that is surprising to hear because I consider corner.
I don't know if I can say it's the toughest
position in football, but it's certainly the most humbling because
so when you, as you said, you don't you didn't
want to cover Randy Moss and Jerry Rice wanted to
be them because at some point even the best corners
they're going to make probably look a little bit foolish.

(06:47):
Now you're wearing the Tennessee orange very proudly. Now. So
much has changed about college football since you played, mostly
having n I L having college athletes now being able
to make money recently settle this lawsuit where the college
teams are essentially going to be able to pay players

(07:08):
directly from what you've seen as somebody who's remained close
to the program that you've gone through, where do you
stand in terms of there are a lot of people
who still feel like NIL is destroying college sports and
destroying college football in particular, Like where do you stand
about how the how the NIL era has sort of

(07:29):
complicated things for the way college football is run.

Speaker 3 (07:32):
Yeah, Jamille, I kind of look at it from a
different perspective. I look at it from the perspective of
the system of exploitation was destroying college football, and so
in society, in any situation you see where there's a
big pendulum swing to one side, that pendulum usually in
some cases can swing back further the other way, right,

(07:55):
And by that, I mean the NCAA had us on
a strict schedule. As far as I remember, it was
during the summer jamall. We didn't even have three meals
a day. We weren't allowed three meals a day during
the summertime. We were given a we were given like
a stipend basically for the day, but that was supposed

(08:16):
to cover I believe it was supposed to cover two
of the three meals. And it was like eighteen dollars
twenty dollars. Now, granted, this is back in the ice age,
you know, in the late nineties and the early two thousands,
but still like you know, these are these are kids
that you are making hundreds of millions of dollars off
of and you're expecting them to perform at an optimum level,

(08:36):
and you and you're going to give them the minimum
amount of money to be able to survive and to thrive, really,
because that's what we do best as professional or as
collegiate athletes, as big time athletes. You need your fuel,
you need your rest, your workouts, all those things. Right,
So the pendulum has swung back so far to where
the NIL was just kind of like a wild West,

(08:57):
wild wild West free fraull. I'm honestly not mad at
that because I'm like, you guys should have figured it
out before it got to this point. So now you
need to figure it out and not in a way
that's going to hurt the players, which I'm not expecting
them to do that. I'm not expecting them to side
with the players, But I'm looking at it from the
perspective of I'm okay with the with the NAO right now,

(09:20):
even though you know, I wish they would have had any
when I was playing. But I'm definitely not mad at
the at the kids today, at the young athletes today,
I'm happy for them, and I'm glad that, you know,
I was a part of the system that kind of
helped turn the tide on that right, and I think
nothing veer too much off.

Speaker 2 (09:37):
But I think the ad Obandon case really.

Speaker 3 (09:39):
Brought the light for college players what the what the
capacity was for earning potential for for.

Speaker 2 (09:49):
College athletes in college.

Speaker 3 (09:50):
When he did that lawsuit against the ncua A, I
think it was I think it was against EA sports
or having having you know, their name, image and likeness
on these games but not getting paid for it. So
today these college athletes I think are well more well
in tuned to the.

Speaker 2 (10:08):
Financials of what's happening.

Speaker 3 (10:10):
Obviously there's more information with the explosion of the Internet
and the every day twenty four to seven information that
were able to receive. But to me, I am just
a little very concerned about Congress now wanting to jump
in and do something now about now that these players

(10:30):
were able to make money off of their name, image
and likeness when we weren't getting three meals a day.
They didn't give it damn about us then, but now
they care about us now that the money's there. So
that really bothers me. But you know, like we discussed earlier,
you know, you said that you hope players understand how
much money is being lobbied, you know, towards them basically

(10:55):
kind of shutting them down into making making them as
much money as possible.

Speaker 1 (11:00):
Yeah, the NCAA the first quarter this year, they spent
almost a half a million dollars to lobby congressional to
lobby congress. Basically they want an anti trust exemption which
would prevent players from really from them really being paid
their market value. Because even right now with this house
settlement with each team that I've seen getting about I
think twenty two to twenty three million dollars, that still

(11:22):
doesn't address market value. And I hope the players are
understanding like what's happening sort of above them. And you
said something that was interesting in your answer. You said,
like when you were in college that you were not aware.
It seems like you weren't really aware of the entire
financial structure, maybe of the NCUBA or the money that's

(11:43):
coming in or what you're generating. You know, I mean
maybe you weren't, But like, was that ever a conversation
that you can remember there? Because I remember Chris Webber
he had said that it struck him, you know, that
his jersey was selling in the bookstore for Liken or
Bucks but he was having a hard time scraping together,

(12:04):
you know, money to eat. Like the unfairness of that. Ever,
did you ever notice that when you were playing at Tennessee.

Speaker 3 (12:15):
I just visualized that just position from Chris Weber that
that is that that's got to be some black mirror
level type of psychological like right there, that's that's crazy,
you know, Jamelle, It wasn't. It wasn't a conversation that
we were having regularly, But I do remember conversations like
Coach Fumer and and I love him to death, he's

(12:35):
my favorite coach.

Speaker 2 (12:36):
But we would see him pull up in a new.

Speaker 3 (12:38):
Lectus and we're like, hey, we used to mesx with him,
like hey, coach, let's get some of that money, you
know what I mean. And we understood that, like we
were a major part of the reason why he got
the contracts why the University of Tennessee had an India's
contract at the time, right before we moved to Nike.
And so those conversations were had, but kind of more

(12:59):
and jest I do remember Jamal Lewis and I'll never
forget this practicing and he was just you know, he
was a specimen.

Speaker 2 (13:08):
He was as a true freshman. I wasn't there.

Speaker 3 (13:10):
I was in the year behind him, but as a
true freshman, he was just a specimen peyton man is
last year, I think he ran for like thirteen hundred
yards as a true freshman.

Speaker 2 (13:18):
You weren't doing that back in those days. But I
remember seeing him his.

Speaker 3 (13:22):
Last year, his junior year, which was I think my
red shirt sophomore year or red shirt freshman year, and
he would be practicing. He'd have his sweatpants on, he'd
be practicing with his with his pockets turned inside out.
And I always thought like, Okay, oh, it looks cool
like Jamal dressed up sweet when he practiced. You know,
he was quick, fast, you know, superstar, all this stuff.

(13:44):
And I walked up to him one day practicing. I said,
I said, why are you pockets always turned inside out?
And he was like, cause I'm broke and I don't
have anything in my pockets but lint, and I'm trying
to get it. And I started doing that right, And
I think the the mindset at that time was like, well,
I'm not getting any money from them, so I've got
to get this money on my own. I've got to

(14:06):
work hard and be able to put myself in a
position where I can take care of my family, et cetera,
et cetera. And so those were the conversations that were
happening more than it wasn't necessarily about the financial structure
or any deep conversations.

Speaker 2 (14:19):
I would say, it was kind of more and jest.

Speaker 3 (14:20):
Like I said, we'd see coach Fumber pull up in
a new Lexus and we'd be like, hey, you know,
we'd go to his house and be like, damn, he's
got a nice house. Okay, this is nice. But that
was kind of the extent for us. But I am
glad that today that the players are well in tuned.
Like I said, there's so much more information, and I'm
excited that they're in the position that they're in. But

(14:43):
like you said, I'm really in the same position of
hoping that they understand what's happening above their head here
in Washington, DC, where I live, where you know, like
you said, the inc double As lobbied a half a
million dollars or close to a half million dollars. So
h those are the things I think that they that

(15:03):
that needs to be the next step for the college
players is to not only understand the structure within which
you're in, but also the structure beyond that, and that
would be the government here in Washington, d C. And
so once they can get to that point, they can
fight against it. They're more aware of it. And I
hope that happens, but I'm not sure how. I'm not
sure how that's going to be honest.

Speaker 1 (15:23):
Now, I like you, I this entire this wild wild
West feeling in college sports is really completely the instad
of LA's fault. They had an opportunity to They've had
many opportunities to share the equity with college players. They
have chosen not to do that, and so they getting
they ask kicked in court every single time. Because you
can say that the players aren't employees, but then you

(15:47):
want to restrict the movement and restrict their earnings. One
of both those things can't be true. And my prediction is,
and I'd love to hear how you might feel about this,
this is my dition for college sports. It will not
exist in a decade unless they collectively bargain. They're going
to have collectively bargaining directly with I think they could

(16:09):
take out college football. In college basketball because they operate
on separate television contracts, negotiate directly with those players and
come to an agreement, and then it will also help
because then if you actually sort of if you actually
understand or agree to the fact that their employees, much
like how the NFLPA operates, and we'll talk about that

(16:31):
in a minute, is that then you can put in
restrictions about transferring. Then you can put in battery caps
and that kind of thing, because it's collectively bargained, right,
a system that makes sense for everybody, as opposed to
you spending all this money trying to stop something that
you can't stop because any of the things that they

(16:52):
try to do, they're not going to hold up in court.
And at least from what I've been able to glean
from those on Capitol Hill, there's not a whole lot
appetite to say the n C double a from itself.

Speaker 3 (17:03):
So Jamille, I love that, and so can I let
me I know this is I know I'm not the
host that I can ask you a question, because that's
that's a very important point. I think that's something that
I haven't seen maybe maybe it maybe it has been discussed,
but I haven't seen that discussed in depth, right, because
because when you're when you're talking about when you're talking
about changing systems, deep rooted systems, you can't think of

(17:27):
technocratic changes. This has to be these Sometimes these have
to be full exercise like changes like that that are
that are so big that encapsulates more than than just
the infrastructure of of or working within the industry infrastructure
that has already been established.

Speaker 2 (17:47):
Right, So for the players to c b A.

Speaker 3 (17:52):
Do you do you think that or how in any
ways do you think that would change the student aspect
of it? I would that change it? I love that, Jamail.
I'm like, I'm sorry, I want to know what you think.

Speaker 1 (18:07):
Okay, So it's a couple of things that we have
to let go. And you know this playing at Tennessee
is that you are on a professional schedule and having
a professor. I'm not saying that they abandon the academic requirements.
I think, if anything, they might be able to use
use collective bargaining to maybe strengthen those in some areas.

(18:28):
But I think you have to sort of give up
the whole concept of student athlete, which there's a very
interesting history behind that. I'm currently reading this book by
a man named Walter Buyers, who was once he led
the NC Double A. He's the whole reason he coined
the term student athlete so that the NC DOUBLEA was

(18:48):
going to get sued because somebody, a player, football player
died on the field and he purposely coined the term
student athlete so that you wouldn't think of them as employees.
It was always they were selling the amateurism narrative because
they were trying to avoid a lawsuit. And he's the
reason why there's this humongous rule book in the NC

(19:09):
Double A, or there was one. And after he left
the n C Double A, he then writes a book
just shredding basically everything that he did, which was all
about the n C Double A avoiding liability. I encourage
people to if you want to read it, I encourage
you to pick up this book. Yeah it is. It
is amazing. And so you know, he was he was

(19:33):
the first executive director specifically of the n C Double A.
And he his book is called Unsportsmanlike Conduct Exploiting College Athletes.
So after developing a rule book to exploit them, he
there wrote about how it was all bullshit and done
just to just the same money.

Speaker 2 (19:49):
I don't know if I respect that or I respect.

Speaker 1 (19:52):
It like he did did it to avoid liability, Like
I respect it at the same time, like this was stupid,
like we should have never tried to put a cap
on their earnings, like he really went into detail. So
it's it's part of a larger piece that I'm working
on for the Atlantic. But that's a story for another day.
But to answer your question is that I think at
this point the charade that this is about college is

(20:15):
not going to work. If anything, I would love to
see them develop curriculums that are about, you know, sort
of financial responsibility, like really things where you can essentially
major in how to professionalize yourself as an athlete. Of
course you can still take your core classes and all
those sorts of things, but I'd like to see them
sort of stop trying to pretend that they give a

(20:36):
shit about whether or not players get their degrees or not.
Because you also know that in college playing for these teams,
they already steer players towards certain majors anyway that are
not as boxing, right, So it's like why we even
why we even pretending, Like it's the hypocalysies, like why
we even forget what this is, Like we know what

(20:57):
he is. It's sports, it's.

Speaker 2 (21:00):
Right, so ye.

Speaker 1 (21:02):
So at any rate, that's that's sort of my my
two cents on it. But since we're talking about college
sports now this is not related to the NIL but
since you went to Tennessee, you said, Charles Woodson, and
your man is your man. You know the question, do
you think that Peyton Manning was robbed of that heisman?

Speaker 3 (21:18):
Charles No, and I unequivalentally, unabashedly Will will say that,
and I've said it to Tennessee folks all the time.
And I love Peyton Manning. I love the family there.
They're the best. Peyton would come back and throw with us,
we would. I was I was shocked really that that
Peyton Manning would come back after he had been in

(21:39):
the NFL his rookie year, second third year. He would
come back every year and throw with us in the
summer and then and then he would he would hang
out with us and like you know, give us food
and stuff and talk to us. And Peyton was awesome.
Peyton Manning was amazing.

Speaker 2 (21:51):
I love him. However, hear Charles.

Speaker 3 (21:54):
Woodson, I think that entire year he just played like
the best player in college football. Kay Manning didn't have
many good games against Florida, and his senior year, you know,
he never beat Florida. But his senior year, you know,
he grew an interception. I think that was a pick six.
It was early in the year, but you know it

(22:14):
really it really hurt his chances I think had winning
the Heisman. And Woodson from start to finish, had a great,
great season when he ended, when he ended the year
with a couple of catches on offense and that punt
return against Ohio State when he.

Speaker 2 (22:30):
Took that to the house and hit the Heisman. I
mean that was the one the one.

Speaker 1 (22:34):
Hand interception he had.

Speaker 2 (22:35):
Against against Washington State.

Speaker 1 (22:37):
No, Michigan, Michigan State.

Speaker 2 (22:38):
Oh, yes, on the sidelines, Yes, with the white jersey, Jamail.
I'm telling you, I thought I was Woodson.

Speaker 1 (22:44):
Yeah, you were there. I was. Let's see, that would
have been ninety seven, ninety seven, Yeah, No, I wasn't.

Speaker 2 (22:53):
Okay, I came in ninety eight, so I figured. I figured.

Speaker 3 (22:56):
I think I thought you were like a year or
two ahead of me. But yeah, oh man, I remember
that interception like it was yesterday.

Speaker 1 (23:01):
No, I was. So I graduated in May of ninety
seven from Michigan State. So it was a few months
before Charles Woodson had to show out on us. I
appreciate that, you know, him making his highlight or his
Heisman moment on but that was very brutally honest of
you to say that you thought Woodson deserved it. Now,

(23:24):
I don't know if you're gonna be able to return
to Tennessee, but it.

Speaker 3 (23:30):
No.

Speaker 1 (23:31):
I want to pivot and talk about your NFL career
because I didn't realize this until I was doing research
for this. For talking to you, I knew you were
in New Orleans. I didn't realize you were in New
Orleans when Katrina happened. You spent your first four seasons
of your career there. This is now the twentieth anniversary,
which is hard to believe from when Katrina hit August

(23:52):
will be officially the twentieth anniversary. From what you recall, like,
what was that time?

Speaker 3 (24:01):
Like it was wild so normally So I was drafted
in two thousand and two and Katrina hit August twenty ninth,
I believe two thousand and five. When prior to that
we had to leave New Orleans two or three times
because of tropical storms or you know, hurricanes. We'd leave

(24:23):
to San Antonio. They would tell us to pack for
two days, and we would come back on the third day,
whatever that was, whether if it was a Friday or
or Thursday night after practice.

Speaker 2 (24:35):
We would come back after practicing in San Antonio.

Speaker 3 (24:38):
And we you know, a lot of the times, really
every time that we left, we could have stayed because
it wasn't that bad, right, And that's the kind of
sense that I got where people were talking about Hurricane Katrina,
like leading up to it. They're in New Orleans, they
get they get these hurricanes, these storms all the time.
But I'll never forget Jamail. The night before we had

(25:01):
Thursday night, we had played the Ravens.

Speaker 2 (25:03):
I believe it was at home, and I fell asleep
with the.

Speaker 3 (25:06):
Weather channel on that night after the game, and I
woke up and I think that Katrina was like a
cat a high CAT three or a low CAT four,
and it was still churning in the in the Gulf
of Mexico. And as you know, the hurricanes, they get stronger,
the winds get more powerful when they get into the
warm water of the gulf. So from that point I

(25:29):
figured that Hurricane Katrina would be bad.

Speaker 2 (25:31):
I didn't.

Speaker 3 (25:31):
I didn't think that the levees would break. That wasn't
even something that registered in my mind. But I thought
it would be bad just because there was going to
be a big storm that came through a city that
was in the bowl. Right, So when you know, they
came by and told us to leave for or told
us to pack for like two or three days.

Speaker 2 (25:47):
That we were going to leave, and I, you know,
I didn't have any like.

Speaker 3 (25:53):
Like realization of what was actually going to happen. But
I didn't think it was going to be good, just
because the hurricane was so big. And I took off.
I took two of my biggest pieces of luggage. I
took a bunch of suits. I took a bunch of clothes.
And people were looking at me like what are you doing?
And I'm like, have y'all not seen the weather channel?
This thing is a five Like before we left, I

(26:14):
think it was a five jamail and we were leaving
to go to Oakland because we had Oakland that that
Thursday night, the hurricane hit I think mon like Monday morning,
like at two or three am.

Speaker 2 (26:26):
And we had left. I think it was either Saturday
night or early early Sunday morning we left, So we
get to Oakland. We're playing the Raiders.

Speaker 3 (26:36):
We waked up the next day and the levees had burst,
and so we're seeing parts of the city under underwater
that we were just in, you know, a few days ago.
And to me, that was so surreal, Jamail, I'll never
forget those images. And actually I was able to get
back to Vettori, which is where the Saint's facility is.

(26:57):
I was able to get back there with Aaron Steck
and Michael Lewis. We flew back from and landed in
Baton Rouge, one of Michael Lewis's good friends. Because Michael
Lewis is from New Orleans, born and raised, they called
him the beer Man. So Michael Lewis, he he had
one of his friends that worked at NASA, worked for
NASA to pick us up and he actually used his

(27:18):
badge to get us through several military, not police, but
military barricades, and so we got all the way to
our facility. We get to our facility, Jamail. Our cars
are in the parking lot, but FEMA's that's where FEMA
had their headquarters.

Speaker 2 (27:33):
They were everywhere. It was like it was like it
was like a movie, Jamail.

Speaker 3 (27:36):
It was like we walked into a war a war zone,
and they had hints up. They had all these military vehicles.
We'd go onto our facility and one of the wide
receiver room at the time was one of the first
rooms that you would walk into. All of our plays
had been erased, and FEMA's playbook was up there.

Speaker 2 (27:53):
It was it was so surreal, it felt like a
movie walking through there.

Speaker 3 (27:56):
And we talked to some of the folks there, and
I wish I would have taken pictures. I wish I
would have been able to kind of catalog more exactly
what happened. But for me, I was in such a shock.
It just no one was on the streets. I mean,
it just seemed like a scene straight out of a movie.
And then you know, you get the people that were

(28:19):
displaced down there, that were evacuated out of New Orleans,
and a lot of them were sent to places that
they had no connections to. I remember hearing that some
got sent to Alaska. I'm like, what is our government doing?
But I did go down when I got back to
San Antonio, I did go down to the Air Force
base there, and I didn't know what to do, Jamail.

(28:40):
I just I knew I was an NFL player. I
was blessed. I had money, and I asked our media
guy what can I do to like, what what can
I do to help?

Speaker 2 (28:49):
And I said, I bought it.

Speaker 3 (28:50):
I went to Walmart and bought a bunch of things
that they've been asking for, you know, to give to
people in those situations. So I just filled my trunk
up with that stuff and I went to our media
guy said hey, what can I do? Where can I
take this to? Who can I give this to? And
he was like, oh, like you did this on your own.
I said, yeah, I just just tell me where to

(29:10):
go so I can drop this stuff off and talk
to some people. And he was like, oh, well, let's
get let's get media cameras. And I'm like, nah, I'm like,
I'm not doing that, man, That's not why I'm doing this.
And he, after a protests for me for a while,
he eventually talked me into letting I think a reporter
from ESPN come with me during that time. And it

(29:31):
was walking in there, Jamail, and I'm getting feels and
my heart is starting to beat real fast right now
thinking about it, Jamail, These folks had lost everything they
ever worked for in their life. They lost family members,
they lost photo albums. Things you can't replace ever, you
know what I mean, You can't replace There was no
cloud back in two thousand and five where you can

(29:53):
upload your photos, your family photos, you know what I mean.
So going there and seeing those people and seeing them
in that position, but then they're all asking me how
I'm doing, and they're asking me how Aaron, How Aaron
Brooks is doing?

Speaker 2 (30:09):
How do McAllister? How to go Horn? And Jamel? I,
for the life of me, I that didn't.

Speaker 3 (30:16):
I couldn't figure that out. It took me a while.
And so I told them. I was like, oh, you know,
we're doing good. We got here, you know, and we're
setting up. But I was like, you know, I'm more
concerned how you guys are doing. And you know, I
was like, we'll be okay, and they're like, no, no, no, no,
we need.

Speaker 2 (30:36):
You to be more than okay.

Speaker 3 (30:37):
We need you to go win this season opener against
the Panthers, who were just coming off a Super Bowl loss,
last second super Bowl loss to the Patriots. So the
Panthers were a very good team and they were in
our division, and we were opening up in Carolina, and
that was the sentiment of jamail that I got around
that Air Force base when I was speaking to folks.
None of them said, hey, can you help me find

(30:59):
this person or that person or locate this and that.

Speaker 2 (31:01):
They were they were all like, how are you doing?
We need y'all to win this game. And I and
that's when they hit me, Jami. I said, damn.

Speaker 3 (31:08):
I said, these people have been through the worst thing
they've ever experienced in their life and they need they
need some kind of reprieve from the grief, from the
damage that has been done to them, and that is
in the psychological toll that they've been taking.

Speaker 2 (31:23):
And we have to be that. We don't have a choice.

Speaker 3 (31:25):
We we were not going to play man. We were
before all this, we were we took it. There was
a team consensus where we were basically like, you know what,
f those games like, We're going to go back to
New Orleans and help we need to take care of
our families.

Speaker 2 (31:39):
There was there was there was.

Speaker 3 (31:41):
Almost a team rebellion that was right on the cusp
because obviously, you know, by the powers that be, we
were being suggested to continue with the season and we
weren't trying to hear that. So a lot of the
lot of the players we had met, players only meeting,
and and we were trying to figure out what the

(32:03):
hell we were going to do. We didn't know if
we were staying in San Antonio, we didn't know if
we were going to Houston. I mean, we were voting
on all this stuff. There was even New York City
as a suggestion. We didn't know what the hell was
going on, and there was no precedent, there was no
blueprint for this, and I think I think amongst all
that commotion and all that uncertainty and instability, I think

(32:24):
players were like, let's just go back to New Orleans
and help man and figure out what we can do
to help. We've got resources, we've got manpower. Let's let's
go back and help. And I think the majority of
the players wanted to do that. There were a few
guys that wanted to play still, but I think most
of the people, and I don't fault them for that.
Everybody has their own reasons, but majority of the consensus,

(32:47):
I think was we were all ready to say we're
not playing, We're going to go back and help. And
you guys got to figure this out like not us.
And honestly, I think the stability and the uncertainty of
like where we were even going to stay, had a
major role in all of that. We were familiar with
New Orleans, we lived there, we loved our fans, We

(33:09):
love our fans. It's a great place. I mean, Orleans,
New Orleans is awesome. So we wanted to be there
for the people. And I think a lot of our
minds changed once we went down to those centers or
air force bases or wherever people were being housed at
the current time. And Jamille, like I said before, I'm
telling you, I just get tears when I think about it,

(33:31):
and it reminds me how important sports are. It reminds
me what sports can do for people, right and and
every now and then. I think, maybe not recently, but
I think especially after I retired, I was trying to
remove myself so much from the from the kind of

(33:52):
moniker of me just being a football player, that I
kind of shrugged off the importance.

Speaker 2 (33:57):
And then I was reminded again, you know.

Speaker 3 (34:00):
After I think one of the anniversars of Katrina, to
be honest, and so that had such a devastating impact
on the people down there.

Speaker 2 (34:07):
Economically, obviously.

Speaker 3 (34:10):
More importantly people's people lost their lives and family and friends,
and like I said, memories that you can't replace. And
I think one of the things too that that I
learned was that the US government contracted the mercenary group
Blackwater to go down there, and that, you know, that
was a major part for me kind of understanding, like

(34:33):
you talked about with the college players, understanding what's happening
above your head, right, not just the images that we're
seeing on TV, but the things that are not being
talked about.

Speaker 2 (34:42):
But yeah, Katrina was Katrina was tough, and.

Speaker 3 (34:46):
Neuralans will always have my heart, not just because I
was drafted there and the people accepted me and it's
a great place, but the resolve they showed after New
Orleans really taught me a lot.

Speaker 2 (34:56):
I'm sorry, after Katrina and Noorlean has really taught me
a lot.

Speaker 1 (34:59):
And you know, still one of the greatest moments in
sports is when they reopened the super Dome backup and
they're able to play, and that moment is unbelievable and
to see how they were able to come back from
all of that is really outstanding. I do have some
more questions I want to ask you about that and
just about your transition from playing into what you're doing now,

(35:25):
because it seems like you have something figured out that
a lot of guys don't have figured out. But we
got to take a real quick break first, and we'll
be back with more with Dante star Wars.

Speaker 2 (35:43):
Now.

Speaker 1 (35:44):
D'antell. You said before the break that everywhere you went
during that terrible time of Katrina and dealing with the aftermath,
that a lot of the New Orleans residents and people
were there were just like, hey, we just need you
guys to win. Unfortunately, that's not how that season turned out. Saints.
You all weren't very good that year. We won three games,

(36:05):
how much because because I came down there, I think
then because that was the year you all played.

Speaker 2 (36:11):
At l s U, right, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (36:13):
We had three gamas in San Antonio at the Alamo
Bowl Dome yep. And then the rest of our home
games were we're in we're at LSU, except for the
except for our first home game was in New York.

Speaker 2 (36:24):
Uh and George George H. W.

Speaker 3 (36:26):
Bush came down and a couple other people came down
and it was you know, yeah, go ahead.

Speaker 1 (36:32):
No, No, I mean it was because I covered a
game that that you all played at in ban Rouge
at LSU, and that was I had not you know,
I remember very distinctly what pre Katrina New Orleans looked like,
and then seeing it afterwards was you felt like you
had stepped into a completely different universe. You could still

(36:53):
smell almost like the sewage in the city, like you
could still smell it. Yeah, and this was, you know,
months later. But nevertheless, even though people were looking for
the team to be kind of a reprieve, it was
a rough season. How much did just the volatility of
all of that, how much did that impact how you
guys played?

Speaker 2 (37:13):
I think an impacted big time.

Speaker 3 (37:15):
And one thing I can say though, was that Jim
Haslet was our head coach and he had I think
he had been on the hot seat anyway, but he
he did the best he could and he actually we
were competitive, I would say most of the games that year,
except for a couple we just got our heads behind.
But we were competitive in almost every game. And now,

(37:37):
mind you, we were We had our locker room and
a dugout at one point, so we had the not
we didn't even have the minimum of what an NFL
team is used to having. We didn't have hot tubs
or cold tubs. We didn't have access to any of
that stuff. And you know, again you talk about resilience,
I saw a team come together. We didn't win many games.

(38:02):
We were competitive, we didn't lay down. We were competitive
in every game. And if you know, I'm not just
saying that right, Like, anybody can go back and watch
those games, and we were competitive and the majority of them.

Speaker 2 (38:12):
And that season, the folks in San Antonio really.

Speaker 3 (38:16):
They really looked out for us. They brought us in
as like one of their own. They showed up to
all the games that we had, their three games, they
sold out the stadiums like and I was at that moment,
I didn't want to leave New Orleans, but I was like,
at some point, San Antonio they need a team because
they showed up for us, and they loved us there,

(38:37):
and we loved being there.

Speaker 2 (38:40):
Under the circumstances.

Speaker 3 (38:41):
But there was there was There was some tough times
that season, but you know, you get to see who
people really are in those situations, and I can honestly say,
you know, we fought hard and that was something that
that was probably proud of that. I haven't really thought
about it to you just asked me that even though

(39:03):
our record didn't indicate as such, but we we played hard,
we played our.

Speaker 1 (39:07):
Off the and to your point, you know, you mentioned
how you guys opened up against the Panthers. You're in
New York. You know you all won that game.

Speaker 2 (39:16):
Yea, yeah, yeah, it's like you won that game.

Speaker 1 (39:20):
So that because I sort of I remember that, and
and I think a lot of people were thinking, like,
you know, could this as horrible as this tragedy is,
could this be one of those, you know, kind of
type of seasons.

Speaker 2 (39:33):
And then the answer quickly became no, Yeah, it kind
of went south, but you got off.

Speaker 1 (39:43):
That's all that matters. Now, down to anybody who knows
your history, know that that you went through a lot
in your NFL career. And what I found to be
interesting is after you were you didn't play in two
thousand and nine, you know, because of your conviction, that
you went around talking or that you went to the
Rookie Symposium, and that you have gone around talking to

(40:05):
college teams about some of the decisions you made that
led to you being convicted of the UI manslaughter when
you're in those rooms because people ask me this all
the time, like why doesn't the NFL have classes? Why
don't they have guys come back? Michael Vicker's come back
and spoke about the NFL rookie Simpot, like everybody, Ray Rice,
everybody who has been in a situation comes back and

(40:28):
talks to the players about, Hey, this is how you
avoid going through what I went through. So when you're
speaking to teams and athletes, like what is your message
to them? And knowing that a lot of them are
sitting there thinking this will never be me, like, yeah,
that's a terrible thing that happened, but it won't be me,

(40:49):
Like how do you break through that?

Speaker 3 (40:52):
Initially, Jamail, I think I just have to connect with
them on a on a primitive level for football players.
And that's football, right. It's not me being some old
head coming in here to tell y'all, hey, don't do this,
don't do that. I engage with them initially, I'll, you know,
I'll try to lighten the mood by telling a joke

(41:13):
or or something like that, like and getting to know
the players before I get there and kind of name
drop one of them in a way like a like, uh,
you know, I think Latin mccockley was.

Speaker 2 (41:25):
Was was when he was in Georgia.

Speaker 3 (41:27):
I was speaking there and talking about, you know, how
fast he was and how quick he was, and you know,
I just kind of joked with the players about like
none of them, even though I was forty three at
the time, none of them wanted to raise me. And
if they wanted to, once I finished, we can go,
you know, just kind of setting the stage with them
and get let them know like, hey man, I'm one
of y'all. Man, I'm not here to be this old
head that's telling y'all not to do this, not to

(41:47):
do that, but you know, you connect with them on
that level and understand and let them know like like
I'm one of y'all, bro, I sat in that seat
and I'm everything that you're thinking, like, Okay, yeah, this
is this is this is bad as a terrible situation
that could have been prevented, but that'll never happen to me.
And we heard those conversations. We heard those conversations in

(42:08):
our really symposium. And you don't dismiss the person, but
you're you're just you're young, and you're in a position
of wealth and fame and you're living your childhood dream
and all these great things are happening, and you you
don't see the pitfalls that are that are right next
to you with one wrong step. And so a lot

(42:28):
of things that I talked to the players about, and
I've spoken at you know, I've done some work with
the NHL. I've spoken at numerous colleges to both the
men and women's programs. And I think one of the
constant consistent messages that I try to get them to
be aware of is number one, what do you want

(42:52):
your legacy to be?

Speaker 2 (42:54):
Right?

Speaker 3 (42:55):
Because no matter what I do in life, I can
go on and become the president of United States, not
that I want that, but I can go on and
do many great things, but that's always going to be
a part of my story, right. And what I try
to get in people's head is, these things don't happen
in a vacuum, right, Like these these situations don't happen

(43:15):
in a vacuum.

Speaker 2 (43:15):
There's something little decision here, little decision there that may
just be right under like the superficial level to.

Speaker 3 (43:25):
Where you're not recognizing what you're doing is adding to
a situation that eventually will snowball and you can't control it.
And so once you get them to understand, like every
decision you make has a consequence, negative or positive, and
you One thing I try to talk to them about
is whatever your craft is, whether it's football, basketball, gymnastics, you.

Speaker 2 (43:47):
Have to study that like no other.

Speaker 3 (43:51):
Right, So why aren't we studying our habits like we
study our playbook. Why aren't we studying ourselves and who
we are as people when we're doing the same thing
for football.

Speaker 2 (44:01):
Let's do that.

Speaker 3 (44:02):
Let's see what kind of decision make you are under pressure.
Let's see if you're going to be the one to say, hey,
my friend or my teammate's been drinking, he shouldn't be driving.

Speaker 2 (44:10):
Are you going to be that guy?

Speaker 3 (44:12):
Or you're going to be the cool, chill guy that's
just like he's grown, he can do what he wants,
you know what I mean? Like, are you going to
step in and be that person? All these different things
can come up in a situation where you could save yourself,
you could save others. And when I discuss this with them,
I interact with them. And one of the things Jamel
that I talked to them about or that I asked
him is ask him, how many times do you think

(44:36):
that you drive under the influence before you're pulled over
the first time? And some of them will say in
the teams or you know, twenty thirty.

Speaker 2 (44:47):
The number is eighty. You are if you drink regularly,
you are under the influence eighty times before the first
time that you're pulled over for a DUI. And people
for get d u It's not you being sloppy, it's
not you not being able to put your keys in
your car door. It's essentially two drinks that is being

(45:08):
under the influence right legally in the federal in the
federal sense. And so when when I'm in a position
to sit in there, I humanize the situation again.

Speaker 3 (45:17):
I'm not talking to them like this, this is what happened,
or this is a decision I made, this is what
happened to me.

Speaker 2 (45:23):
And I make it more human because it is more human.

Speaker 3 (45:27):
I talked to him about mister Mario Ray is the
man that passed away, the man that when I hit,
he didn't make it. I talked to him about his
daughter not having her father, Like I tell them, like,
it's not just about you, bruh.

Speaker 2 (45:41):
These are situations that reverberate.

Speaker 3 (45:43):
To other people and have long lasting, life lasting impact
on other people. And no one you don't want to
do that intentionally, right, No one's intentionally doing it.

Speaker 2 (45:56):
But that's what's happening.

Speaker 3 (45:57):
And so when you're not, when you're not cogs of
the decisions that you're making on a day to day basis,
you can put you can be put in the situation
yourself that you didn't realize how you got there to
you so you realize and you start looking at the
decisions and the little small decisions that you've been making
over weeks, months, years, And I think it's important for

(46:17):
people to understand that because a lot of times, you know,
people just kind of go with the flow, right, you
just go with whatever life like every now and then,
you know, on a New Year's people have New Year's resolutions.
But why don't we do that every month or every quarter?
Where if we I feel like, if we do those things,
if we self evaluate a lot more, then a lot

(46:39):
of the times we can stop some of these self
sabotaging content or actions that that we are taking upon ourselves.

Speaker 1 (46:46):
When you had to sit out the two thousand and
nine season for violating the lead's Personal conduct policy. What
did you learn about yourself during that time?

Speaker 2 (46:56):
You know what?

Speaker 3 (46:56):
I learned that that I was resilient. I learned that
I was more emotional than I gave myself credit for.
Because I at that time, Jamail, I knew that I

(47:17):
couldn't move forward until I forgave myself, and I couldn't
forgive myself until the family had forgiven me. And I
didn't think that would ever happen, not because I knew
the family and or because of what happened, just it
just was like, who would forgive someone for that?

Speaker 2 (47:38):
And uh.

Speaker 3 (47:40):
A couple of weeks after, actually the family, through their attorneys,
contacted my attorney and said that they were appreciative of
the way I handled everything from the from the way
that from after you know, the immediate injury, how it happened,
and then you know, I was the first. There were
a number of nine one one calls. I was the
f from the call. I stayed on the scene. And

(48:01):
I don't say I don't say that to say like
I'm some good person. I'm not saying that. What I'm saying, though,
is that through all of that and knowing that a
number of people take off, not necessarily out of malice,
but because they're scared. And that's one of the things
that the state attorney told me. But the fact that
I stayed there and I called nine one one, and

(48:22):
you know, I did everything that I could to try
to help. At that moment, I think that I was
able to kind of see who I really was as
a person. Because everyone says what they would do in
certain situations, you never know until you're in it. And
I know it seems, you know, I'm patting myself on
the back, but to hear how many people actually take off,

(48:44):
and again not necessarily because of malicious purposes, but just
because they're scared, and your fight or flight kicks in
and most people flee. And but you know, I I
saw man, a man lying in the street, and well,
there was no mentioned him. There was no thought in
my mind to to not do anything other than to
reaching my back seat and grab my phones I can

(49:06):
call nine one one. And that all actually the fact
that the family appreciated that, the fact that they appreciated
that didn't blame him for running in the middle of
the highway, because I, in my mind, I figured that
if I wasn't on the road, then none of this
would happened. And I think, honestly, I noticed is probably weird,
but being accountable in football I think really helped shape

(49:27):
who I am as a person too, because, as we
say in football, you know, the eye and the skuy
don't lie. You can say what you want about the film,
but the film is the film, and you have to
be held accountable for what you put on film. And
that's kind of the way I kind of handled that situation,
was that this is something that I did, and I'm
going to take responsibility for my actions. And I think

(49:48):
that really helped the family kind of see that, oh
he's he's not what the media has been portrayed as
some spoiled, rich athlete who's who's yet into trouble again,
another athlete.

Speaker 2 (50:00):
They sought me as a human being.

Speaker 3 (50:02):
I thought that was very important for me to be
able to forgive myself and start the healing process. And
the NFL was was they were instrumental and that I
think Roger Goodell honestly helped a lot. You had conversations
with him, you know, really helped because he told me,

(50:22):
he said, listen, man, he's like he's like, I know,
obviously the situation is horrible and it's a tragedy and
you made poor judgment decision that that is irrevable.

Speaker 2 (50:32):
And to the league, to yourself, to your family.

Speaker 3 (50:36):
He's like, but I'm not here to I'm not here
to take your career with I'm not here to take
your job away. But I am going to suspend you
for this year because I think you need some time off,
you need some time to reflect, and I want you
to do these, you know, to go through the league's
therapy sessions at the time, and that helped me out

(50:56):
a lot. Something else that I realized was that I
guess probably me pushing back on it initially being a
psychology major, but it helped me out so much, and
it took the stigma away from you know, from from
talking to a therapist.

Speaker 2 (51:10):
It took that stigma away from me.

Speaker 3 (51:12):
As football players, in particularly football players is kind of
kind of spartan tough sport where you're taught to suppress
your your suppress your your your mental any mental weakness
or any physical weakness, and that a lot of times
carries off the field as well, right and so and

(51:33):
and part of that part of mental mental toughness is
not saying you're not saying you're tired, not saying, uh,
you know, you need help or you need to speak
with someone, or you have to talk with someone because
your head's not right. But I think today that that
that stigma has has gone, or not not gone totally,
but it's definitely changed a lot. The nomenclature that we

(51:53):
speak about people speaking with therapists has totally changed since then.
So I learned a lot during that, Jamail, and and
it taught me a lot, not just about me, but
about about like how to try to help others. And
so I just go in there and I just tell
my story and tell the situation, talk about the impact
that it had not just on me and my family
in the league and people around me, but mister Rayes

(52:16):
and his family as well, his friends and family, right,
because that's another part of it too. And I worked
with mad a lot in those days and built a
good relationship with them and got to speak to people.

Speaker 2 (52:27):
I mean, Jamail, it was speaking for the first time.
It was hard.

Speaker 3 (52:32):
And I always play that nine one call that I
made because it's always hard for me to hear it.
But I want them to feel it, you know, I
want them to I want them to hear my voice.
I want them to hear the urgency. I want them
to hear the confusion and my voice as far as
like this, like did this actually happen? And I try
to make it as real for them as possible, and honestly, Jamail,

(52:53):
a lot of them come up to me and tell
me stories that they said they haven't told anyone, or
talk to me about things. A lot of my exchange
and information with and been in touch with a lot
of folks, and that's never something. I was never a
person that wanted to talk a lot or wanted to
get up in front of people. I was that kid
that literally like took a zero on the paper because
I didn't want to get up and say it in

(53:15):
front of the team. But I realized that, you know,
I don't, I don't have that luxury like I can't.

Speaker 2 (53:20):
I can'tnot speak out right.

Speaker 3 (53:21):
I cannot take these opportunities to speak to young folks,
to speak to anyone who needs to hear this story
and who needs to hear you know, my my situation
and how everything happened and what I've been doing since.
Because I think it's important for people to hear.

Speaker 1 (53:39):
You came back, you played for three more seasons. Did
football feel the same to you?

Speaker 2 (53:47):
That's a good question. No, it didn't. It was.

Speaker 3 (53:50):
It was always my first love. It was it was
so it was, it was, it was. It was the
only thing in my life growing up. I didn't care
about girls, I didn't care about going outside with friends.

Speaker 2 (54:04):
I was in the house watching football, playing football. I was.
I was all football, tmail And no it changed. You know,
It's funny.

Speaker 3 (54:11):
No one's ever asked me that after all these years,
and I've never even thought about that. That's why I
was like, dam no, it wasn't. And I think there
were a number of factors.

Speaker 2 (54:20):
I think. I don't think it was just that, but
the fact that I was.

Speaker 3 (54:23):
Out for a year and watching that that suck because
that was the first year that I hadn't played football
since I was nine, you know what I mean, So
that part of it was hard. But I think also too,
you know, like still trying to find myself or like
like like figure out what was going on or what

(54:44):
was happening with me. But also too, there were a
number of things happening around that same time where I
started to become more politically aware, and it was right
around time when Obama got elected, So I started paying
more and more, more and more attention to politics. And
so I think a culmination of several factors played a

(55:08):
role in that. And I still love the game, I
still love the practice, I still love to work out,
but it wasn't the same.

Speaker 2 (55:13):
Did you know? No one's ever asked me that. I've
never thought about that before.

Speaker 1 (55:16):
Damn, Well, when you retire, you're still young. I mean,
you're what mid thirties at that point, thirty four and
that might be quote old in football years. You talk,
you know, whenever I've talked to a lot of professional
athletes about how did they know when it was time
to go? Like, typically they didn't. So I'm worrying right

(55:39):
with you, Like was that your experience as well? Like,
how did you know when it was that it was
time to retire?

Speaker 2 (55:47):
I'll be concise. It's a pretty interesting story.

Speaker 3 (55:50):
It's interesting to me. I came back and played three
years and after that, and twenty twelve was the first
year that I was well, actually I got I got
cut in the middle of twenty twenty or twenty eleven,
and then Leonard Hankerson broke his foot, and so they
brought me right back the following week and then I

(56:11):
finished the season there. But twenty twelve was the first
time I got cut in the preseason, so I wasn't
on and opening day roster for the first time in
my career. In twenty twelve when I was released by
the New England Patriots, and I continued to work out
that entire season. I worked out for for a few teams.
I think it was I think I went to Buffalo.

(56:33):
I think I went to Miami and a couple other teams,
but I didn't sign with anyone until Julian Edelman broke
his foot actually in Miami, and I was at that
game and so and I just go I just going
up to New England, like two three weeks prior to that,
and they worked me out and I go down there,
and I didn't see Julian back in the game, so
I was hoping he was okay. I wasn't even thinking

(56:54):
about like him being hurting him needing to sign me,
right and I get down, I get down to the
locker room and Brady walked up to me. He's like, hey, dude,
He's like Jewels broke his foot man. So he was
like be ready. He's like, because they're going to call
you either today or tomorrow. And I'm like, oh okay,
I'm like, damn, all right, I've been working out in
training So while I was fine, but I come back
that next week. We played the Texans on Monday night.

(57:14):
I think that was like they deemed it the Letterman
game or whatever when when the Texans walked off the
off the bus or they playing with their Letterman jackets
and got spanked. I called one pass Jamail that game
for seventy sixty nine yards something like that, seventy four
yards whatever it was, and that was a seventy four
yard touchdown. That was the last catch of my career.

(57:36):
That was the last play of my career. Even though
I was in training camp the following season with Washington.
That was the final play of my career, which is
probably one of the highlights of my career. But to
answer your question, so all these things are happening, right
and I know now, like all right, you're at the end, dude,
like you're not going to play twenty years like Jerry
Rice did. You're getting cut in training camp and that's

(57:57):
usually you know, I still had faith in my talents.

Speaker 2 (57:59):
But and that was like kind of kind of.

Speaker 3 (58:03):
The beginnings of the end, right, And so twenty thirteen
I get in a hot air balloon accident in Miami
and that set me back from jamail. That that was
in March that I think that Friday, I think it
happened on a Saturday. That Thursday or Friday was my
first time I was coming off that so I sprained my.

Speaker 2 (58:23):
Ankle that game.

Speaker 3 (58:23):
I had the highest high ankle spraying that game. That
ended my season. And then so I went on IR
and all that, so I didn't play another game, and
then I was training all off season and that week
was the first time I had run like on grass
that first time. And then that hot air balloon accident happened.
So then I get set back another two three months.

(58:45):
So now this is you know, March is when we
it was like when teams starts signing free agency and stuff.
So teams were like, WHOA like this dude just like
towards ankle last year and now he's in a hot
airblon accent. He's about to be thirty this year. He's
probably done.

Speaker 2 (59:01):
And so my agent, Drew Groveinghouse of course was like,
of course.

Speaker 3 (59:05):
He was like he's not done, He's still working to
get back, and and my friend Amy Pallsik was like,
he was like, hey, you need to tell Drew to
shut the buck up and tell him to stop talking
about football, and so I was like, Hey, Drew, chill,
but uh that that So that situation, I finally.

Speaker 2 (59:23):
Got an invite from Washington.

Speaker 3 (59:25):
They invited me back during mini camp to work out,
and after the first day, Shanahan was like, Oh, he's fine,
We're gonna sign him. But I was never right after that,
and I think the like being an electrocutor, I think
it really like did something to my muscles. And I
already had some raggedy hamstrings anyway, so you know, that
didn't help it. And I was thirty three years old,
thirty two years old, so that didn't help. And I

(59:46):
pulled my I was having actually a good camp to
mel and I pulled my pull my hamstring in camp.
I got released that that next those next few weeks,
I still worked out until October Jamail, and then I
just woke up one day and was like, do I
want to really keep waking up at seven o'clock and
going to train for three hours, and I thought I
was just being lazy, So I forced myself the next

(01:00:06):
two days to do it because I didn't know if
there was something larger happening right like retirement. I didn't
know if there was something larger happening in that that
I'm not really picking up on. I went to train
the next two days and I was like, Nope, that's it,
I'm done. And I at that same time, all these
funny things started happening.

Speaker 2 (01:00:22):
Jamil.

Speaker 3 (01:00:22):
I had some friends who had been telling me for
a few months to watch Newsroom. They were like, how
haven't you seen Newsroom? My HBO, that's right up your alley.
You would love that. And as I'm watching this, actually, actually,
Jamail was one of the things that kept me from
working out too, to be honest with you, I was
so into the show, and I'm like, I liked I
loved the news. I always left the news. I want
to work in the newsroom. And then right at the

(01:00:43):
same time, I had a close friend Jeremy Skate Hill
and Lynn Greenwald, who were two guys, like two investigative journalists.
Especially Jeremy Skate, who I befriended, is a good friend
of mine.

Speaker 2 (01:00:54):
They were always speaking truth to power.

Speaker 3 (01:00:55):
And this was, like I said, at the time, where
I was learning about all these things that were happening
that our government was doing abroad after nine to eleven
in the War on Terror and all this and how
that affected things that were happening back home here in
the States. And I'm I'm getting calls from from Jeremy
and Glenn and they're starting this new media company and

(01:01:19):
they were they were still in the assumption. Avenue told
me when I didn't told my mom that I mentally
kind of checked out and it was retiring.

Speaker 2 (01:01:26):
But I get a call.

Speaker 3 (01:01:28):
From these guys and they're like, hey, we want work
starting this new media organization called the Intercept, and we
want you to write for us.

Speaker 2 (01:01:34):
We know you're still playing football, but can you write
for us?

Speaker 3 (01:01:37):
And I'm like, Okay, here's some signs from God, like
you're old, your hamstrings are fried, and all these things
you want to do, and putting these opportunities right in
front of you, so like, are you listening? And so
I kind of made up my mind within that moment.
Jamel within a week and realized that I wanted to
get into journalism. I wanted to write more. I wanted
to learn more about national security, about foreign affairs. I

(01:02:00):
love history, so like learning about international relations and how
all these things are connected. I really started focusing on
that more than I did football until I eventually mentally
retired and then officially retired.

Speaker 1 (01:02:16):
And listen that hot air balloon incident, you like literally
caught on fire. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that is. It's just
mind boggling. I haven't been in a hot air balloon.
I cannot imagine what that must have been like. But
you made a very sharp turn into journalism and into
politics and foreign affairs. You know, most guys when they retired,

(01:02:37):
they're going to like real estate.

Speaker 2 (01:02:38):
And all that.

Speaker 1 (01:02:40):
You picked this very needy industry to be a part of.
As you started to make your way in the journalism
and political commentary side, what kind of surprised you the
most about how that industry operated.

Speaker 3 (01:02:52):
I think it was right away, Jamail, when when I so,
I got a job offer from the from the Hubbinson Post.
Shortly after that, and I was also doing I was
also a commentator for Comcast New England calling the Patriots games.
So you know, I'm as soon as like Arianahupington's like

(01:03:13):
tweeting about it, and all these journalists, which I learned
to be like, these conservative right wing journalists were criticizing, like, oh,
what's what a joke? And all of this right, And
I'm like, I'm like, what's happening right now?

Speaker 2 (01:03:28):
Like why are they mad at me? I just I
have nothing to do with y'all beef.

Speaker 3 (01:03:32):
I don't even know what's going on, right, And then
I start to learn, oh, there's beef between conservative and
liberal media and leftist media and far right media all
this stuff. Right, I'm just thinking the naive naive telling
me was like, Oh, everybody's just here focused on the truth,
and that's how we're going to move, Like like football, right,
we're all here for the same goal and we're going

(01:03:54):
to move and.

Speaker 2 (01:03:55):
You know, moving the right direction together in unison.

Speaker 3 (01:03:57):
And No, it was immediately right away I was being
they started finding old tweets of mine and you know,
saying all this stuff, and I'm just like, what is
happening here? But luckily I had I had a ton
of people coming to my back, a ton of journalists,
political journalists in particular Germany Skalhill and Glennary Greenwall really
came in like huge support of me when all these

(01:04:19):
people started to attack me, which I didn't like. I said,
I didn't realize that there was beef between media. I
just thought everybody was focused on the truth and then
that's how we're going to operate. But no, as you
know very well, you know, dealing with folks, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:04:33):
So it was something I think that probably shocked me
more than anything, Jamail.

Speaker 3 (01:04:37):
And And again, although I've been on a ton of
teams in my life and my career, I realized that
the only team that I want to be on as
a journalist is the side of objectivity and truth.

Speaker 2 (01:04:52):
And that's not how a lot of people operate.

Speaker 3 (01:04:54):
A lot of people operate more on what's best for
them and what's financially that's for them. So that's something
that I can't get down with. I mean, get your
money whatever, do what you want to do. But that's
you know, like, I believe in what I believe and
if that's going to get me paid, fine, If not,
then that's fine too.

Speaker 1 (01:05:12):
Yeah, that part. As I began to make more headway
on the broadcast TV side. That's not to say that
print journalists don't do some of the same. It was
just more in your face on the broadcast. I will
literally see people who are playing a role, right, It's
like you're an actor, right, and you're like, wait a minute.
You know, I can't like you. I can't do that now.

Speaker 2 (01:05:35):
You are who you are and who I am, and
it just I'll.

Speaker 1 (01:05:38):
Just take whatever backlash comes with that. I think people
would be surprised at the number of broadcasters who do that,
which I could live with myself if I did that,
and I know you couldn't either. You know, since you're
away from the game a little bit and been able
to watch things with the sixty thousand foot view, I

(01:06:02):
really want to hear your thoughts about the NFLPA, as
you know, been going through a lot. They're operating now
without an executive director who resigned a few weeks ago.
As of the recording of this podcast. There's all sorts
of things coming out. He was spending NFLPA money at
Magic City. I mean, I wish I was making that up.
I was like, I'm not just saying that for hyperbotly

(01:06:23):
as you know, that was literally there, yeah, right, But
far more dangerous not trying to minimize that is the
fact that what has been revealed is that there was
this agreement, this confidentiality agreement between the nfl PA and
the NFL to basically conceal the fact that the owners

(01:06:44):
were conspiring to restrict guarantee contracts. And this, to me
is a story that should be huge because you have
a players union that's actively cooperating with the NFL against
the best of the player Now you see that leadership
is in shambles. How can the NFL p A, how

(01:07:07):
can they regain the trust of the players.

Speaker 3 (01:07:11):
That's a good question. I think first of all, Jamill,
we've we've got to have a former player as one
of the as the head, right.

Speaker 2 (01:07:22):
I think a former player has to be that.

Speaker 3 (01:07:27):
I know Don Davis Well, I played with him, he's
he's been at the PA for a long time.

Speaker 2 (01:07:33):
Dominique Foxworth, I throw his name in the hat.

Speaker 3 (01:07:36):
He was he was the NFL the players p A
president for for a long time when when I was
in the league and so and I played with him
in Baltimore. I'd love to see him as as the
head as heading the PA. But we need someone like that.
We need someone that's that's that's not that doesn't have
any Anyboddy Buddy relationships. With with the NFL, because that's

(01:08:01):
that's working, like you said, that's working exactly against the
player's best interest. Those conflicts of interest can't happen in
it's in a in a business like the NFL and
the players Union, right, so much has been happening, like
can you imagine if that happened during uh, you know,
the beginning of all the concussion lawsuits and all that,
Like I mean, but like you said, it's a big

(01:08:22):
story that's not being that's not being discussed that that much.
And for the for the PA two to really help
build the trust back in the players and everyone former
players and current players and society in general, I think
there's gonna have to be just kind of exorcism of
this of what what's been happening and what and what

(01:08:45):
the plan is moving forward? Right, but there's no leadership
right now, and you know, the leadership has trusting leadership
has crumbled. I think too many, too many players feel
that the union has become about protecting relationships with ownership.
That has been about protecting the players and their bodies.
And you, like I said, that conflict of interest is

(01:09:08):
just that is that is non negotiable, that that cannot happen.

Speaker 2 (01:09:12):
That is a huge controversy for the for the PA.

Speaker 1 (01:09:16):
Yeah, the the director who resigned Lloyd how it came
to light that he was part of an ownership group
or had a relationship with an ownership group that was
trying to buy into an NFL team. And if you're
leading the players Association and while also trying to buy

(01:09:37):
your way into the NFL, I mean, that's such an
obvious conflict of interest. It's just like, how did that
even happen?

Speaker 2 (01:09:42):
Right?

Speaker 1 (01:09:43):
How did somebody like that even get in that in
that position? But there's been this long time perception overall
that the NFLPA is basically no match for the NFL.
I mean, is that a is that a fair perception
in your mind?

Speaker 3 (01:10:01):
Well, the NFL obviously has a ton of money, and
they have the money to hire the lawyers to you know,
look at look at different wording and paperwork and all
these things that that are afforded to I paid attorneys, right,
But uh, players have the manpower.

Speaker 2 (01:10:20):
And one thing.

Speaker 3 (01:10:22):
I'll never forget that is that was never really talked
about was the mutiny that was about to happen in
twenty twenty from the players when owners were contemplating forcing
players to stand for the for the national anthem, and
I heard from a number of high profile players from
a number of different several different teams that they were

(01:10:42):
going to refuse to play if the owners did that.
And the owners backed off because you know, they were
getting pressure from Trump. Trump was running his mouth every
day about it, like he didn't have anything better to do,
but still ketch up and spaghetti on his shirts and golf.
But you know, he They really, they really took a
major understanding of Okay, these guys, these guys mean business, right.

Speaker 2 (01:11:09):
And then when that video came out.

Speaker 3 (01:11:10):
I don't remember exactly when this was, This might have
been twenty twenty or twenty twenty one, but when the
players made that video and said that the NFL needed
to do more, and this was right after the commissioner
had said something to that effect. But the players were like, no, no, no,
you need to do with the poor. And they had

(01:11:32):
all those high profile players on there. And then Roger
came back out and basically said, you know, he didn't
mention Kyla Kaepernick by name, but he essentially said, the
league hasn't been listening to his players, and we want
to do more. So the players have the power.

Speaker 2 (01:11:46):
They just have to. It's so many of us.

Speaker 3 (01:11:48):
It's twelve hundred and thirteen of us current players right,
not me personally, but current players are I think twelve
hundred or something like that, and they if they understood
the power that they really had. I think the collective
bargaining agreements could be good. They could stop these owners
from trying to get eighteen games because that's their number

(01:12:08):
one goal. That's been their number one goal since I
was a rookie in two thousand and two. Like, force
these owners to pay these these these doctor bills. Instead
of five years, how about fifteen twenty years after you're
done playing?

Speaker 2 (01:12:23):
Right then.

Speaker 3 (01:12:24):
I'm just saying that as a former player. But like
all these different things that players can push for, and
I don't. I don't think that the majority of them
don't understand. Hell I didn't understand when I was There's
much more information now, but I didn't understand really what
I was voting on or anything. But a lot of
the players, even today, they don't vote during the CBA
as Jamail, So you know that.

Speaker 2 (01:12:44):
So they've got to they've.

Speaker 3 (01:12:45):
Got to become more in tune like you said again
the same thing with the cottage players, to learn what's
happening above their head, because you may not you know,
you may not care about at the moment you're in
the NFL and you don't have to think about healthcare,
you don't think about all that. But you know, five, ten,
fifteen years down the line you've retired, those things are
going to become important to you.

Speaker 2 (01:13:02):
And it's going to be too.

Speaker 3 (01:13:03):
Late because the education of these of the NFL players
hasn't been to a point where a majority of them
need to understand that their vote is important and that
they can really push the NFL, push the league to
get more of what they want, not just during their careers,
but post careers as well.

Speaker 1 (01:13:21):
Yeah, you mentioned a key piece of that, the owners
want that eighteenth game. Yeah, So to me, that gives
the players actually a lot of leverage right to work with.

Speaker 2 (01:13:31):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:13:31):
Do you think we'll ever see guaranteed contracts in the NFL,
believe like across the board like the NBA.

Speaker 3 (01:13:38):
No, I don't think so, Jamel, and you asking me
that question, I'll never forget.

Speaker 2 (01:13:42):
I had met a young PK Sue. I was living
in Miami.

Speaker 3 (01:13:45):
I think this was I don't know is twenty thirteen
or twenty fourteen, and a childhood friend of his lived
in my building and solved at the restaurant at the
hotel or at the residence, and he introduced me to PK.
And I didn't know he was, but I had heard
of him, right, like I knew he was like one
of the few black players that was.

Speaker 2 (01:14:04):
And he was a badass.

Speaker 3 (01:14:05):
And and I actually I had I had something to
do that evening. I was going to dinner or something,
but I canceled because I was I was just enamored
with this kid and listening to him speaking. He was
a kid at the time, right, I think he was
only in the second year in the NFL or in
the in the NHL, and I'm listening to him and
I'm like, damn, this kid's got.

Speaker 2 (01:14:22):
His head on straight, like he understands.

Speaker 3 (01:14:24):
And when I told him Jamail that I don't know
how we got in the subject, but I told him
that NFL contracts weren't guaranteed, his jaw hit the floor
and he thought I was joking, and he was like,
what did you say, And I was like, yeah, I said,
our contracts aren't guaranteed, and he was like, how is
that possible? And so we had this conversation, right, and
he was like, he was like, I couldn't imagine not

(01:14:45):
playing without a guaranteed contract. And I felt a certain
way because he was so appalled that we weren't getting
guaranteed contracts. And I had normalized it, right, because that's
the system that I lived in and the system that
I had forever seen. I was born in that system,
and it's still that same way. But so for me,
it's been normalized. And he was so offended. He was like,

(01:15:05):
I don't think I could ever play on the contract
that wasn't guaranteed.

Speaker 2 (01:15:08):
And I'm like it's a good point. I'm like, that's
a good point. Like, but.

Speaker 3 (01:15:15):
Then, so to answer your question, if the owners want
the eighteen games, maybe the players should tell them that
we want guaranteed contracts. If you want eighteen games, we
want guaranteed contracts. That's the non negotiatbook, right, Like, there's
no need to negotiate with them. We know what they want,
we know what they want, and so if you want
eighteen games, we want guaranteed contracts and some other stuff.
We want some other stuff. We don't just want the

(01:15:35):
ribs and the corn bread. We want some macatins too,
you know what I'm saying. We need to get all
of that. And I really hope players understand the power
that they have because they could do that. They could
get you know, better healthcare post career. Right now, it's
five years, five years after year out of the NFL.
If you're invested, right, that's the only players who have
played three years plus three games. So you're in your

(01:15:57):
fourth year, after your third game you play, then you
are vested finally, but only those players you get after
five years, after the moment you retire, you get essentially
NFL healthcare.

Speaker 2 (01:16:10):
Right.

Speaker 3 (01:16:10):
You don't have to pay for any of it, but
after that you do. So players can get so much.
I really hope they push and push and push and
get those to get those extra recreds, get that macantes,
get that corn bread and potato salad, and get all.

Speaker 2 (01:16:23):
Of it because they have the opportunity to do it,
and I really hope they do.

Speaker 1 (01:16:27):
Yeah. The unfortunate part, and where obviously ownership has huge
a huge amount of leverage, is because they feel like
from a money standpoint, they can outlast you all. And
when you have an average NFL career. It's only like
three and a half years. You have a lot of
guys in the league who have their whole families depending
on it, and they can't afford to not make money.

(01:16:49):
So eventually at some point they're gonna have to come
back to the table. And you know the owners much
have they done the last two cbas like they have.
They have taken it to the mat. So, like you,
I hope it happens one day because given the rate
of injury, the danger of the job it is, it

(01:17:10):
is unconscionable. Right, they do not have guaranteed contracts. All right,
Before I let you go, Dante, I end every podcast
by asking my guest a messy question. This is where
we make the blogs, so where we make the head Yes, right,
So you alluded to your speed in this podcast. Maybe

(01:17:30):
people don't know this, but your your forty yard dash
time at the combine tied for second fastest of all
time and combine history of course, as wor That's what
I'm talking about, all right, you and your prime running
at four too two that you ran versus Tyreek Hill
and his prime who wins.

Speaker 2 (01:17:53):
See Tyreek's speed was like my speed.

Speaker 3 (01:17:55):
He could go from zero to one hundred quick, right, Like,
that's why I ran such a forty times forty time.
Now you put me in the two hundred. It's a
little bit slower than than my forty time, but I could.
I could get out real fast to full speed. I
watched the things that Tyreek that Tyreek's done. God, I
feel like I had a similar speed, but his explosion

(01:18:18):
is just second to nine. I haven't seen many people.
But now there's the messy part of that question. In
two thousand and seven, when I played with the Patriots,
after I scored this long touchdown against the Cowboys, we're
watching the film that Monday in the meeting room receivers,
Randy Moss walked up on me and stands over me

(01:18:41):
like like this like and he was like, you think
you fast?

Speaker 2 (01:18:45):
He was like, you ain't faster to me.

Speaker 3 (01:18:47):
And all I did was I looked up and I said,
put something on it, right, And he was like, one
hundred graand we'll race, We'll put he said, we'll both
put one hundred grad in the suit cable at the
end of at the end of the finish line. And
he was like, and I'm gonna pick my money up
and you that touch my money, and that we were
going to race. We had a buye week coming up
in a couple of weeks, and that was we I
was like, I got Randy. From zero to forty, I

(01:19:07):
got Randy. Now you're talking about sixty eighty hundred. No,
I'm not racing him, cause already know what's gonna happen.
Those long legs are going to get to turn him.
But zero to forty I got you, Randy. And we
never got the race because he copped out. He knows
he copped out. He came up to me and he's like, man,
he's like, it's words getting around the building and bill
check it will.

Speaker 2 (01:19:26):
Chick wouldn't be too happy if one of us got hurt.

Speaker 3 (01:19:27):
And I was like all right, I said, all right,
all right, Randy, okay, even though I was like, you know,
I don't feel like I dodged the bullet, but I
was like, oh, you know, I had comping this jamail,
but you know that's one hundred grand online and that was.

Speaker 2 (01:19:41):
Now would have been crazy.

Speaker 3 (01:19:42):
But yeah, as far as speed goes, I wish we
would have been out of race. Would have been fun,
would have been something to brack about. Say, I be
Randy Mawson the race, but you know, I was blessed
player play alongside guys.

Speaker 2 (01:19:54):
Like him and other players, and it was really a blessing.

Speaker 3 (01:19:56):
And I'm really, you know, blessed to be able to
be in a position I'm in now, living in Washington,
d C. With the connections and network that I have
to be able to speak to people and meet people
that are doing really great things around the world.

Speaker 2 (01:20:07):
It's really been a blessing.

Speaker 1 (01:20:09):
So what you didn't answer the question though you are Tyrek.

Speaker 3 (01:20:16):
You know what, Honestly, in my day, I felt like
no one could beat me. But when I'm watching Tyreek now,
I feel like he might have beat me by a
hair by hair.

Speaker 1 (01:20:25):
Okay, yeah, now what's that speed looking like?

Speaker 2 (01:20:30):
Now? Well, I'm a.

Speaker 3 (01:20:32):
Marathon runner now, or at least a half marathon runner now,
so I'm a little more slow paced. I can run alonger,
faster or longer than I've been able to. But faster I.

Speaker 2 (01:20:42):
Just do sprints on treadmill for a little fun, or
like running up hills.

Speaker 3 (01:20:45):
But the speed, yeah, even I try to think about
running the forty might pull a handstring.

Speaker 2 (01:20:50):
So I'm good.

Speaker 3 (01:20:53):
You see those videos people racing, their racing their kids
in the streets, so their niece's nephews.

Speaker 2 (01:20:57):
It won't be me. It won't be me, I.

Speaker 1 (01:21:02):
Heard that, But will at least you, you know, you
learn how to wrong learn how to run long distances.

Speaker 2 (01:21:09):
At least you're there.

Speaker 1 (01:21:10):
Well, Dante, thank you so much for joining me, and
for those out there who are watching or listening, they
can catch you on seeing it in your own all
the time we've been on together recently, and certainly with
this NonStop collision between sports and politics, that means we
will see you even more than we already do, given
that Donald Trump has decided that he's an unofficial sports

(01:21:34):
czar of America, between trying to get Washington and Cleveland
to go back to their nicknames and the executive order
for NIL, and with these big international events coming up
in America, from the World Cup to the Olympics, it'll
be very interesting to see how the rest of the
world responds to being in America under this type of leadership.

(01:21:54):
So look forward to your commentary and you adding your perspective.
So thanks for being so opening, candidate, and for joining
me here on politics.

Speaker 3 (01:22:02):
Thanks Jameel, and I will say before we get off.
I am writing a piece for the Nation that will
publish soon. But it's not about sports, but it's about
like how ice raids were, like the old slave slave patrols,
and how the Cold War policy is connecting all that right,
So look out for that piece.

Speaker 2 (01:22:20):
It'll be published soon, hopefully by next week sometime.

Speaker 3 (01:22:23):
And thanks for having me on since I appreciate you,
love you as always, keep doing what you're doing.

Speaker 1 (01:22:29):
One more segment to go coming up next, the Final Spin.
Time Now for the Final Spin. I just want to
take this time and thank you everybody for supportings politics now.

(01:22:50):
This first season, it was unbelievable in so many ways.
I interviewed some amazing guests, from John O'Brien to King
Jeffries to Roy Wood Junior and Marion Jones to Clarissa
Shields and so many more. The conversations I had on
this podcast gave us all permission to have elevated discussions
about the relationship between politics, sports, race, gender and culture.

(01:23:12):
It's not easy to start and maintain a podcast like this,
so I just want you all to know that your
support is truly appreciated and critical. If we want a
media world where we're actually challenged and receive information that
creates curiosity. This concludes another episode of Politics. If you
have a comment or question, like or dislike I'm at

(01:23:35):
Jamail Hill across social media Twitter, Instagram, fan based, Blue
Sky and threads, please use the hashtags politics. You also
have the option of emailing me as Politics twenty twenty
four at gmail dot com. You can also video me
a question, but please make sure it's thirty seconds or less.
Don't forget to follow and subscribe to Politics on iHeart
and follows, Politics pod on Instagram and TikTok. Politics is

(01:23:59):
billed sp L I t I c s. A new
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wherever you get your podcasts. This is politics or sports
and politics don't just mix. They matter. Politics is the
production of iHeart Podcasts and The Unbothered Network. I'm your

(01:24:22):
host Jamel Hill. Executive producer is Taylor Chakoigne. Lucas Hymen
is head of audio and executive producer. Original music for
Spolitics provided by Kyle Visz from wiz FX.

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Ep 45: The Politics of Adjustment - Featuring Donte’ Stallworth

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Ep 45: The Politics of Adjustment - Featuring Donte’ Stallworth