August 10, 2022 • 14 mins
With the upcoming additions of USC and UCLA, the Big 10 stretches from sea to shining sea, but what does that mean for college football? John Gonzalez is joined by SI Senior Writer Pat Forde to break down if the Big 10's West Coast expansion is good for the fans, the schools, the conference and college football as a whole.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Before we get started, please rate and review our show
that helps people find us on this episode of Sports
Illustrated Weekly. As a resident of Los Angeles, there's no
shortage of sports in the area. Lakers and Clippers, Dodgers
and Angels, Rams and Chargers. They're all within driving distance.
(00:20):
But I never imagined I'd be able to hop in
my car and go through the University of Michigan play
or Wisconsin or Penn State. But that's what will happen
soon enough, thanks to USC and u c l A
leaving the Pack twelve for the Big Ten, a seismic
shake up in college sports that has everyone talking. S
I Senior writer Pat Forty joins me to discuss the
(00:42):
shifting landscape, the ripple effects, and whether these kinds of
superpower conferences are good for the schools, the athletes and
us the fans. I'm your host, John Gonzalez from Sports
Illustrated and I Heart Radio. This is Sports Illustrated Weekly.
(01:06):
Pat Forty, Welcome back to Sports Illustrated Weekly. Hey, good
to be with you, John Love when you're on a
lot of questions for you. As you know, I live
in Los Angeles, which is in California. I did great
in geography at school. But I checked on it, and
last I checked before this. Most of the Big Ten
is very far from California. And yet the Big Ten
made big news and announcing that it would add to
(01:27):
l A legacy programs in U C, l A, and
USC to the conference. And we're following major breaking news
out of college athletics. Big Ten is expanding all the
way out west. The addition of the Trojans and the
Bruins make it sixteen teams in total. Hot. I was floord,
let's just start here. What was your reaction to this?
(01:49):
Completely floored? This soul broke a June and well, quite honestly,
I was sitting in a Raman restaurant eating with my
son and it was one of those frozen with the
chopsticks of noodles in front of my face, like what.
I looked at my phone and somebody said that to me.
I was like, there's no way, there is no way
(02:10):
that just happened. And you know, we've kind of been
spinning through disbelief to you know, the whole all those
stages of grief, anger, acceptance, you know, guilt, whatever the
case may be. Uh, it's been a wild a few
weeks early a month trying to process this whole thing.
So I was floored. You were surprised as well. I
guess this is sort of a process question, but it
(02:31):
seems like a lot of this was orchestrated in secrecy.
There were reports that on June thirty, at USC and
U c l A submitted formal applications to join the
Big Ten, and those applications were approved immediately the same day.
And then The Athletic reported that only about ten people
at USC, at the entire school were privy to the
discussions before it was announced. So what does it say
about this process that all of it was done behind
(02:52):
closed doors? Yeah, I mean that's the world we live
in college athletics and questions. Is this really where we
want to live? A world of skullduggery, uh plan destined behavior,
you know, admit to nothing, deceive, you know, keep your
a lot of important people on your campus in the dark,
keep your colleagues at the other schools in your conference
(03:14):
in the dark. College sports has has long been addicted to,
I think a silly level of secrecy in terms of
like coaching searches and stuff like that. But this is
taking into a whole other level, because these are half
a billion dollar decisions over a course of you know,
ten years, twenty years, whatever the case may be. These
are massive, massive decisions that you would think would need
(03:37):
to be run through a lot of channels to go
ahead with. But but we have reached a point where
nobody feels like they need to lay cards on the
table and just be honest with their constituency, with their colleagues,
with their competitors. Before we go more into how this unfolded,
(03:58):
just from like a pure I guess we could look
at the big sports like football and basketball, but from
a collection of talent here do we like this for
the Big Ten? Well, I I guess you look at
it two ways one one way, Yeah, for the Big Ten.
This is their answer in a very strong answer to
Texas and Oklahoma going to the SEC. And so it
(04:18):
is for the reasons that they did this for revenue
and marketability. It's it's a huge game to get the
Los Angeles market to become the first coast to coast
league to bring in one of the most storied football
programs in history in USC and one of the most
storied men's basketball programs in history in u c l A.
You know, two programs that are phenomenal in Olympic sports,
(04:42):
to schools that are outstanding academically. It checks every box
for what you would like in your conference, and it
will check a big revenue box with Fox Sports and
other TV partners. If you're USC in U c l A,
you're looking at this and saying, well, we've made a
lot of money. I don't know whether it helps them
beyond that. I think it makes it harder for them
(05:03):
to compete. I think it creates incredible travel hardships and
logistical hardships for their athletes. It's I think it's a
bummer for their fans, who you may like some of
the freshness of it, but instead of being able to say, hey,
let's go up the coast to the Bay Area to
see our team play this weekend, you're like, well, can
(05:23):
we afford to fly to State College Pennsylvania to see
our team play this weekend? I mean, you know, maybe
a trip to Nebraska? Right? I mean yeah, right? And
you know who doesn't want to go to Lincoln in November.
A lot to impact there. You hit on a lot
of really good points. I think the most important one
is that it's money, right, it's money for the Big ten,
it's money for USC and U C l A. But
you also mentioned, and you wrote about this as well,
(05:44):
that this was sort of a response for the Big
ten to what the SEC did in adding Oklahoma and Texas. Basically,
this is an arms race, right, absolutely, that's exactly what
it is. It's a TV arms race, and it's a
two conference arms race. Is the two biggest getting bigger, too, strongest,
getting stronger. It's Fox against the ESPN, Fox A line
with the Big ten, ESPN line with the SEC, and
(06:07):
everybody else is just being further pushed to the side
as these two megapowers accelerate their kind of a competition
with each other. When you talk about everybody else being
pushed aside, is this the end for the because we
talk about the Power five conferences, but really it's the
Power too and everybody else now, right, yeah, it is absolutely,
(06:29):
you know, I mean, that doesn't mean Clemson can't be
really good. And when national tizing the Tigers reclaimed their
crown by crushing Alabama, doesn't mean a team from the
Big twelve, Baylor and Oklahoma State can't be good. It
doesn't mean that an Oregon cannot compete for a national title.
But it's harder now, it is more difficult. You are
(06:51):
further behind in revenue, and you know what, what is
revenue being used for? Now? Most everybody's built every facility
you could possibly need. So the next thing is name,
image and likeness money, And now you've got more of
that you can give the players, which I am not
opposed to players getting the money, but this has become
purely a transactional situation here. So it's that it's how
(07:12):
big can our staff be, how much can we pay
our coaches? And you just try to money whip your competition,
and it's just harder and harder for everybody outside the
power to to compete with those two conferences. We've had
you on this program to talk about n I L before,
and that's a really interesting component of it that I
hadn't previously considered because I think like a few years
(07:33):
ago USC in U c l A, the actual quality
of their programs had lost a little bit of the
luster and diminished a little bit. How does n I
L factor in for these two schools? Do you expect
them to become dominant forces again because of it? And
also because they're joining the Big Ten. Well, I mean
it gives them kind of a renewed uh injection. I
think of competitiveness in those areas. Now, USC had kind
(07:55):
of already gotten there in the last offseason, right, USC
has found its new football coach Oklahoma suitors Lincoln Riley, Traits,
Crimson and Cream for Cardinal and Gold. They hired Lincoln Riley,
and it was it was basically, Okay, we're gonna go
take this home run swing, spend ninety million dollars higher
this coach, but then we're gonna have to do everything
that he says we need to do to compete, which
(08:16):
is going to be major n I L commitments there,
you know, and as you started seeing them landing big
time recruits and hey, there's a lot to like about
USC in Los Angeles. But it wasn't just for the beaches.
It's because there's gonna have to have some opportunities to
earn a lot of money. And I think being in
Los Angeles having huge alumni basis with a lot of
wealthy donors. I'm not sure how many all of them
(08:38):
care about football, but nothing of them probably do that
you can go to them and say, hey, we need
fifteen million a year ten million a year for N
I L purposes? Are you enter, you out? And so
I think that's kind of the next step. And I
think with those Los Angeles based schools that they'll have
a chance to to mind that particular area. All right. So,
(08:58):
as we mentioned, good for the schools in terms of money,
probably good for the student athletes in terms of money.
But in order for them to leave, they had to
leave something. Where does this leave the Pack twelve and
also the Big Twelve when we're talking about the SEC
defections of Oklahoma in Texas. Absolutely both conferences gutted of
their lynch pins. You know that the two most important
properties in each conference both gone. They're both hurting, no
(09:22):
doubt about it. And that's why there has been a
lot of talk John in the last couple of weeks
about put these two conferences one of their so weak
and would one poach the other. There's no such thing
as working together anymore in college sports, so it's more
like who's turning on whom? Uh? And I think the
Big Twelve has made it pretty clear they would take
some teams from the PAC twelve. The Pac twelve was
(09:42):
mad about that but really, I mean, we're still waiting
actually to see if like Oregon and Washington could go
to the Big Ten. I don't think that's imminent by
any stretch, but just the the very stability of the
PAC twelve and the Big twelve is so frail at
this point and so fraught, and they're not in it
to help each other. They are in it to compete
(10:03):
against each other for you know what whatever. Uh, you know,
it's next in the totem pole after the top two conferences,
it's those two in the A C C. I'll just
kind of scrapping it out. Yeah, it's it's really interesting
to see how these dominoes are gonna fall and whether
or not more teams will get poached. But for their
to be teams poached, somebody has to do the poaching.
(10:23):
I'm wondering about Big Ten commissioner Kevin Warren, where he
falls in all of this, and how he's being perceived.
It's obviously a boon for the conference, but I would
imagine other commissioners around the league probably not that happy
with him. Oh, I mean, like George Clicoff, I am sure,
is very bitter towards Kevin Warren. George Clicoff, the commissioner
of the PAC twelve for the last year and last
(10:45):
summer they had the quote unquote alliance between the PAC twelve,
the Big Ten, and the a c C to basically
kind of ward off SEC aggression more than anything. But
part of that was, hey, we're in this together. And
then you know, eleven months later, Kevin Warren just shanks
George Clay Coffin takes us to best schools. So yeah,
(11:05):
there's some real bitterness there. But Kevin Warren's boy, what
a evolution he's had in if you remember the Big Ten.
At first, wasn't going to play football and people were
vilifying him viciously. I mean to the point of death threats,
and not just a couple, but like hundreds of death threats.
People wanted him out as commissional. People thought he was weak,
(11:27):
out of touch, couldn't do it. And then last year
it looks like, okay, they're falling further behind the SEC,
which makes the Big Power move. Well, now he answers
with this move, and I think he's he's got a
new lease on life. I saw him at Big Ten
media days, and he has a a swagger and a
confidence about him that was non existing a couple of
years ago. Some really stark winners and losers and all
(11:49):
of this. Last one for you, Pad, I want to
ask you about us. Take off your journalism hat. Just
as a consumer of college sports? Are we winners or
losers in this? Do we like this? Just from a
consumption standpoint? I don't think so. I don't like it,
you know, to each their own, probably, But my feeling
is college football is at its best when it is
(12:10):
a national sport with different unique regional flavors that all
kind of stitched together, and the Pack twelve, which have
been around since the nineteen twenties. Schools were most of
the schools in the league. We're in there from the
vet from that time on for a century. You lose
something when there's not a West Coast champion, so to speak,
(12:33):
out there, you know, when when those schools are being
farmed out to go compete with schools they really don't
have much in common with. Uh, you lose something there,
and you lose something when the Southwest no longer as
you know, revolves around Texas and Oklahoma. It's just like, well,
they're just in there with Georgia and Alabama. You know
we've already gone, We've crossed the rubagne to agree. Already
(12:53):
we have West Virginia playing in the same conference with
Texas Tech. Alright, it's already ridiculous. But now you know,
we're not talking about us for June. We're talking about
USC We're talking about Texas, And I think you are
losing something that's really part of the the appeal of
college football. Yeah. I love the West Coast rivalries. I'm
less confident that I'm gonna get jazzed up for like
(13:14):
u C l A Iowa, but I guess we will
find out. Read his stories about college football and the
Power Conference realignment on si dot com. He's the best
in the biz. We'd make a commissioner over all of
it if we could. Pat forty, thank you for this.
Thank you, John, my pleasure, Thanks for listening, and a
reminder to please rate and review the show that helps
(13:36):
people find us. Sports Illustrated Weekly is a production of
Sports Illustrated and I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from
My Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get your favorite shows. And for more
of Sports Illustrated It's best stories and podcasts, visit SI
dot com. This episode of Sports Illustrated Weekly was produced
(13:57):
by Jordan Rizzieri, Jessica your Mooski, and Isaac Lee, who
was also our sound engineer. Our senior producers are Dan
Bloom and Harry sward Out. Our executive producers are Scott
Brody and me John Gonzalez. Our theme song is by
Nolan Schneider.
Before we get started, please rate and review our show
that helps people find us on this episode of Sports
Illustrated Weekly. As a resident of Los Angeles, there's no
shortage of sports in the area. Lakers and Clippers, Dodgers
and Angels, Rams and Chargers. They're all within driving distance.
(00:20):
But I never imagined I'd be able to hop in
my car and go through the University of Michigan play
or Wisconsin or Penn State. But that's what will happen
soon enough, thanks to USC and u c l A
leaving the Pack twelve for the Big Ten, a seismic
shake up in college sports that has everyone talking. S
I Senior writer Pat Forty joins me to discuss the
(00:42):
shifting landscape, the ripple effects, and whether these kinds of
superpower conferences are good for the schools, the athletes and
us the fans. I'm your host, John Gonzalez from Sports
Illustrated and I Heart Radio. This is Sports Illustrated Weekly.
(01:06):
Pat Forty, Welcome back to Sports Illustrated Weekly. Hey, good
to be with you, John Love when you're on a
lot of questions for you. As you know, I live
in Los Angeles, which is in California. I did great
in geography at school. But I checked on it, and
last I checked before this. Most of the Big Ten
is very far from California. And yet the Big Ten
made big news and announcing that it would add to
(01:27):
l A legacy programs in U C, l A, and
USC to the conference. And we're following major breaking news
out of college athletics. Big Ten is expanding all the
way out west. The addition of the Trojans and the
Bruins make it sixteen teams in total. Hot. I was floord,
let's just start here. What was your reaction to this?
(01:49):
Completely floored? This soul broke a June and well, quite honestly,
I was sitting in a Raman restaurant eating with my
son and it was one of those frozen with the
chopsticks of noodles in front of my face, like what.
I looked at my phone and somebody said that to me.
I was like, there's no way, there is no way
(02:10):
that just happened. And you know, we've kind of been
spinning through disbelief to you know, the whole all those
stages of grief, anger, acceptance, you know, guilt, whatever the
case may be. Uh, it's been a wild a few
weeks early a month trying to process this whole thing.
So I was floored. You were surprised as well. I
guess this is sort of a process question, but it
(02:31):
seems like a lot of this was orchestrated in secrecy.
There were reports that on June thirty, at USC and
U c l A submitted formal applications to join the
Big Ten, and those applications were approved immediately the same day.
And then The Athletic reported that only about ten people
at USC, at the entire school were privy to the
discussions before it was announced. So what does it say
about this process that all of it was done behind
(02:52):
closed doors? Yeah, I mean that's the world we live
in college athletics and questions. Is this really where we
want to live? A world of skullduggery, uh plan destined behavior,
you know, admit to nothing, deceive, you know, keep your
a lot of important people on your campus in the dark,
keep your colleagues at the other schools in your conference
(03:14):
in the dark. College sports has has long been addicted to,
I think a silly level of secrecy in terms of
like coaching searches and stuff like that. But this is
taking into a whole other level, because these are half
a billion dollar decisions over a course of you know,
ten years, twenty years, whatever the case may be. These
are massive, massive decisions that you would think would need
(03:37):
to be run through a lot of channels to go
ahead with. But but we have reached a point where
nobody feels like they need to lay cards on the
table and just be honest with their constituency, with their colleagues,
with their competitors. Before we go more into how this unfolded,
(03:58):
just from like a pure I guess we could look
at the big sports like football and basketball, but from
a collection of talent here do we like this for
the Big Ten? Well, I I guess you look at
it two ways one one way, Yeah, for the Big Ten.
This is their answer in a very strong answer to
Texas and Oklahoma going to the SEC. And so it
(04:18):
is for the reasons that they did this for revenue
and marketability. It's it's a huge game to get the
Los Angeles market to become the first coast to coast
league to bring in one of the most storied football
programs in history in USC and one of the most
storied men's basketball programs in history in u c l A.
You know, two programs that are phenomenal in Olympic sports,
(04:42):
to schools that are outstanding academically. It checks every box
for what you would like in your conference, and it
will check a big revenue box with Fox Sports and
other TV partners. If you're USC in U c l A,
you're looking at this and saying, well, we've made a
lot of money. I don't know whether it helps them
beyond that. I think it makes it harder for them
(05:03):
to compete. I think it creates incredible travel hardships and
logistical hardships for their athletes. It's I think it's a
bummer for their fans, who you may like some of
the freshness of it, but instead of being able to say, hey,
let's go up the coast to the Bay Area to
see our team play this weekend, you're like, well, can
(05:23):
we afford to fly to State College Pennsylvania to see
our team play this weekend? I mean, you know, maybe
a trip to Nebraska? Right? I mean yeah, right? And
you know who doesn't want to go to Lincoln in November.
A lot to impact there. You hit on a lot
of really good points. I think the most important one
is that it's money, right, it's money for the Big ten,
it's money for USC and U C l A. But
you also mentioned, and you wrote about this as well,
(05:44):
that this was sort of a response for the Big
ten to what the SEC did in adding Oklahoma and Texas. Basically,
this is an arms race, right, absolutely, that's exactly what
it is. It's a TV arms race, and it's a
two conference arms race. Is the two biggest getting bigger, too, strongest,
getting stronger. It's Fox against the ESPN, Fox A line
with the Big ten, ESPN line with the SEC, and
(06:07):
everybody else is just being further pushed to the side
as these two megapowers accelerate their kind of a competition
with each other. When you talk about everybody else being
pushed aside, is this the end for the because we
talk about the Power five conferences, but really it's the
Power too and everybody else now, right, yeah, it is absolutely,
(06:29):
you know, I mean, that doesn't mean Clemson can't be
really good. And when national tizing the Tigers reclaimed their
crown by crushing Alabama, doesn't mean a team from the
Big twelve, Baylor and Oklahoma State can't be good. It
doesn't mean that an Oregon cannot compete for a national title.
But it's harder now, it is more difficult. You are
(06:51):
further behind in revenue, and you know what, what is
revenue being used for? Now? Most everybody's built every facility
you could possibly need. So the next thing is name,
image and likeness money, And now you've got more of
that you can give the players, which I am not
opposed to players getting the money, but this has become
purely a transactional situation here. So it's that it's how
(07:12):
big can our staff be, how much can we pay
our coaches? And you just try to money whip your competition,
and it's just harder and harder for everybody outside the
power to to compete with those two conferences. We've had
you on this program to talk about n I L before,
and that's a really interesting component of it that I
hadn't previously considered because I think like a few years
(07:33):
ago USC in U c l A, the actual quality
of their programs had lost a little bit of the
luster and diminished a little bit. How does n I
L factor in for these two schools? Do you expect
them to become dominant forces again because of it? And
also because they're joining the Big Ten. Well, I mean
it gives them kind of a renewed uh injection. I
think of competitiveness in those areas. Now, USC had kind
(07:55):
of already gotten there in the last offseason, right, USC
has found its new football coach Oklahoma suitors Lincoln Riley, Traits,
Crimson and Cream for Cardinal and Gold. They hired Lincoln Riley,
and it was it was basically, Okay, we're gonna go
take this home run swing, spend ninety million dollars higher
this coach, but then we're gonna have to do everything
that he says we need to do to compete, which
(08:16):
is going to be major n I L commitments there,
you know, and as you started seeing them landing big
time recruits and hey, there's a lot to like about
USC in Los Angeles. But it wasn't just for the beaches.
It's because there's gonna have to have some opportunities to
earn a lot of money. And I think being in
Los Angeles having huge alumni basis with a lot of
wealthy donors. I'm not sure how many all of them
(08:38):
care about football, but nothing of them probably do that
you can go to them and say, hey, we need
fifteen million a year ten million a year for N
I L purposes? Are you enter, you out? And so
I think that's kind of the next step. And I
think with those Los Angeles based schools that they'll have
a chance to to mind that particular area. All right. So,
(08:58):
as we mentioned, good for the schools in terms of money,
probably good for the student athletes in terms of money.
But in order for them to leave, they had to
leave something. Where does this leave the Pack twelve and
also the Big Twelve when we're talking about the SEC
defections of Oklahoma in Texas. Absolutely both conferences gutted of
their lynch pins. You know that the two most important
properties in each conference both gone. They're both hurting, no
(09:22):
doubt about it. And that's why there has been a
lot of talk John in the last couple of weeks
about put these two conferences one of their so weak
and would one poach the other. There's no such thing
as working together anymore in college sports, so it's more
like who's turning on whom? Uh? And I think the
Big Twelve has made it pretty clear they would take
some teams from the PAC twelve. The Pac twelve was
(09:42):
mad about that but really, I mean, we're still waiting
actually to see if like Oregon and Washington could go
to the Big Ten. I don't think that's imminent by
any stretch, but just the the very stability of the
PAC twelve and the Big twelve is so frail at
this point and so fraught, and they're not in it
to help each other. They are in it to compete
(10:03):
against each other for you know what whatever. Uh, you know,
it's next in the totem pole after the top two conferences,
it's those two in the A C C. I'll just
kind of scrapping it out. Yeah, it's it's really interesting
to see how these dominoes are gonna fall and whether
or not more teams will get poached. But for their
to be teams poached, somebody has to do the poaching.
(10:23):
I'm wondering about Big Ten commissioner Kevin Warren, where he
falls in all of this, and how he's being perceived.
It's obviously a boon for the conference, but I would
imagine other commissioners around the league probably not that happy
with him. Oh, I mean, like George Clicoff, I am sure,
is very bitter towards Kevin Warren. George Clicoff, the commissioner
of the PAC twelve for the last year and last
(10:45):
summer they had the quote unquote alliance between the PAC twelve,
the Big Ten, and the a c C to basically
kind of ward off SEC aggression more than anything. But
part of that was, hey, we're in this together. And
then you know, eleven months later, Kevin Warren just shanks
George Clay Coffin takes us to best schools. So yeah,
(11:05):
there's some real bitterness there. But Kevin Warren's boy, what
a evolution he's had in if you remember the Big Ten.
At first, wasn't going to play football and people were
vilifying him viciously. I mean to the point of death threats,
and not just a couple, but like hundreds of death threats.
People wanted him out as commissional. People thought he was weak,
(11:27):
out of touch, couldn't do it. And then last year
it looks like, okay, they're falling further behind the SEC,
which makes the Big Power move. Well, now he answers
with this move, and I think he's he's got a
new lease on life. I saw him at Big Ten
media days, and he has a a swagger and a
confidence about him that was non existing a couple of
years ago. Some really stark winners and losers and all
(11:49):
of this. Last one for you, Pad, I want to
ask you about us. Take off your journalism hat. Just
as a consumer of college sports? Are we winners or
losers in this? Do we like this? Just from a
consumption standpoint? I don't think so. I don't like it,
you know, to each their own, probably, But my feeling
is college football is at its best when it is
(12:10):
a national sport with different unique regional flavors that all
kind of stitched together, and the Pack twelve, which have
been around since the nineteen twenties. Schools were most of
the schools in the league. We're in there from the
vet from that time on for a century. You lose
something when there's not a West Coast champion, so to speak,
(12:33):
out there, you know, when when those schools are being
farmed out to go compete with schools they really don't
have much in common with. Uh, you lose something there,
and you lose something when the Southwest no longer as
you know, revolves around Texas and Oklahoma. It's just like, well,
they're just in there with Georgia and Alabama. You know
we've already gone, We've crossed the rubagne to agree. Already
(12:53):
we have West Virginia playing in the same conference with
Texas Tech. Alright, it's already ridiculous. But now you know,
we're not talking about us for June. We're talking about
USC We're talking about Texas, And I think you are
losing something that's really part of the the appeal of
college football. Yeah. I love the West Coast rivalries. I'm
less confident that I'm gonna get jazzed up for like
(13:14):
u C l A Iowa, but I guess we will
find out. Read his stories about college football and the
Power Conference realignment on si dot com. He's the best
in the biz. We'd make a commissioner over all of
it if we could. Pat forty, thank you for this.
Thank you, John, my pleasure, Thanks for listening, and a
reminder to please rate and review the show that helps
(13:36):
people find us. Sports Illustrated Weekly is a production of
Sports Illustrated and I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from
My Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get your favorite shows. And for more
of Sports Illustrated It's best stories and podcasts, visit SI
dot com. This episode of Sports Illustrated Weekly was produced
(13:57):
by Jordan Rizzieri, Jessica your Mooski, and Isaac Lee, who
was also our sound engineer. Our senior producers are Dan
Bloom and Harry sward Out. Our executive producers are Scott
Brody and me John Gonzalez. Our theme song is by
Nolan Schneider.
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