December 26, 2022 • 43 mins
Alec may be flying solo this episode, but he’s got the sweetest guest imaginable — Peppermint! They reminisce about meeting on a Pride float then Peppermint talks about why she wanted to be an entertainer, how she got into drag, and what it was like meeting Lady Gaga. They also discuss why some politicians are targeting the LGBTQ community and the importance of trans representation. Plus, Alec asks the question on everyone’s mind!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hello, Hello, Hello, and welcome to another episode of Squirrel Friends,
the official RuPaul's Drag Race Podcast. I'm Alec Mapa. How
are you? How about some applause and applause break? Oh,
thank you, thank you. Listen to that. They're going absolutely crazy.
I'm in an a bulliant mood today because I have
(00:24):
some very good news. First off the docket, the protection
from marriage at past and so it's really nice. I've
been married for twenty years and every four years my
marriage and my family has been up for a vote.
So it's kind of a relief to kind of be
at this place where we don't have to worry about that.
The other bit of good news that I have, I
(00:44):
need that shade rattle standing by Florida State Representative Joseph Harding,
the Republican who introduced the Don't Say Gay Bill, has
been criminally indicted by the Department of Justice or wire fraud,
money laundering, and making false statements. That's in Florida. But
(01:05):
remember we're the problem. Okay, you know, he's money laundering,
he's doing a wire fraud, he's ripping off his constituents.
But drag queens and trans people are the problem. This
is what we talk about here on Squirrel Friends, and
we have an incredible guest today. Talk about somebody who
is newsworthy. She is of the moment. Our guest today
(01:27):
was on RuPaul's Drag Race season nine. She's also an actress, singer, songwriter, activist,
and drag icon who is sweet and sassy. I'm head
over heels. Did you see what I did there? Head
over heels? Here? Please welcome to program, my girl, Pepper
meant yallo. Well, hello, darling, We've not each other for
(01:48):
so long. I'm holding up a picture of us together
on a float. Oh my gosh, I think this is
like early two thousand six. Look at my abs, Look
at your hair. Oh my gosh. So we're on a
I'd float together with all of these like people in
their underpants and everything. And I remember like at the
time I was doing Ugly Betty, but in the time
(02:10):
in media, it still felt like as a queer person
of color, I had just gotten my foot in the door.
And I was like, do you know what I mean,
just kind of like absolutely just arrived at the party,
and then all these years later, you're now a mainstream star.
I mean to kind of have come all of the assistance.
How does that feel for you? I mean mainstream. I
(02:30):
don't know whose stream you're talking I know, but you're
you're in mainstream media. I mean, you've been on a
Broadway play, You're you're currently in a television show. Now
people know you by name, they're asking for you. So
take us back to the time that we met on
that float. Where were you back then? Honey? I was
working in all the bars and clubs in New York.
And the funny thing was when I originally moved to
(02:51):
New York to go to acting school. And that's only
because the Philadelphia School of the Arts, which is where
I'm from, and wanted to go, oh, you're a Filing girl. Me,
I'm a p a girl. I'm a Philly girl. And
they didn't accept me in the school. And so I
was like, well, I guess I'll have to go to
New York because I knew and my method was very unscientific.
I was just looking when they said go and choose
(03:11):
a college, go to the library at the high school
and choose what school you want to go to. I
was just looking at the brochures. I wasn't even looking
in the brochures. I was just looking at the brochures,
and these two schools had gay people and queers on
the cover. Clearly, that's where I want to go on
the broch shore. So that's where I applied, and I
(03:34):
got into one of them, thankfully, American Musical and Dramatic
Academy here in New York. And so that's why I
came to New York. And I remember something my mom,
My mom used to work at a college that I
also couldn't get accepted to, and she used to get
free tickets when celebrities and and guest speakers would speak.
And so I was listening to John Amos, who was
(03:55):
the father on Good Time Dawn, Damn, Damn, and he
was talking and I'll never forget one of the things
he said. I don't remember anything else, but I do
remember this. There were some actors and theatrical people in
the audience and they're asking questions, and he said, if
you are a professional actor when you are doing it
(04:16):
for a living, which obviously makes sense, And so that
really resonated with me as a young teenager all these
years later. And so when I was working in New
York City in the clubs and doing drag every single
night of the week for like fifty dollars a night. Right.
I was like, oh, I made it. I'm paying my
rent bairly, but paying my rent as a performer only
(04:38):
and not you know, having to do any of the
other stuff perspective. Yeah, you didn't have a survival job.
This was your job job in doing those gigs. This
is what I talked about every week on the show.
Me and Lonnie are really trying to change the culture
of the drag race fandom because it could be really savage.
And what the point that we drive home week after
week after week after week is that when you see
the girls on the show, you're seeing a seeny teeny
(05:02):
part of their journey. You're seeing a culmination. I mean
you're talking years of those gigs that you're talking about,
like where you're getting up for fifty or sometimes no
money at all. What was it like when you first
started out? What were some of your experiences? First of all, like,
how did it even like happen? Like, Okay, I'm doing
this doing drags. Well, I was at art school and
(05:24):
I started doing dabbling and drag here and there back
home before moving to New York. It's just like a
fun thing as a joke whatever, and then Halloween hit
and then suddenly it was like every week. But when
I moved to New York City, obviously New York City
nightlife is really popular and it definitely was in the
nineties when I mean to New York and so I
(05:45):
was like, you know, let's go out to the club.
Of course, in the beginning, I was paying to go
to the club, but after a while, I was like,
I ain't paying for this. Why don't you let me
come here for free? Right, and I'll do drag every
single week? And I was like working like that was
me working, like just going for rate? Is that funny?
Like that's such a New York club thing. It's like
if you're a parade float who goes to the club.
(06:06):
Eventually it's like, we'll pay me and then everybody can
see me for free, exactly exactly. And so that's when
I ended up doing. And then eventually they put me
onto the budget and I was working with all the girls.
And one of my favorite nights working was New Year's Eve.
I've been working there for several years, but New Year's
(06:26):
a young man Marshall Mathers was working, was performing. He
was a guest performer a k a. Eminem is a
guest performer, and they had the whole club roped off
in some kind of weird way, which they normally didn't do.
It wasn't because it was Eminem. It was because it
was New Year's and nobody knew who Eminem was. And
he was like this guy, this white rapper getting up rapping.
(06:49):
You know, he was obviously really good, and he had
his huge crew with him. And I was like going
to have a like a little hook up, you know
at the club, which the girls sometimes do in the
secret rooms, right, And so we one of the ways.
Those were the days. Those are the days are like
all the queens knew all the nooks and crannies and
the club where you can go and have a little privacy,
you know what I mean. And so I went under
(07:11):
the stage, which is like you know, you could go
under the stage while Marshall Matters is performing to have
my little hook up. It was a total scandal, Darling,
I love this story. Anyway, that was the beginning. I
don't do that anymore. You're looking up with somebody underneath
Eminem performing. You know this is a squirrel. Friends, First,
(07:32):
I'm talking about something hidden assignation while Marshall Bathers was performing.
Now listen, I love you as a person and I
think that what was great about the show is we
really get to know the people behind the personas and everything.
And also, drag queens and trans women have been a
part of my life for most of my adult life.
Why do you think right now? I know the reason
(07:54):
right now, but I want your opinion on why the
politicians are doubling down right out on all the transphobia
and and drags phobia, you know, the demonization of drag
queens performing or reading at libraries, or or trans people existing.
I mean, there's got to be lots of different reasons.
And I you know, I remember being a young kid
(08:15):
hearing Republican politicians always talking about the war on culture,
the culture wars, war and family values and morality, which
I think is just a load of b s and
they're really just stuck in the past. But one thing
that they are doing speaking of the past, is they
really are regurgitating a lot of the same old tactics
that you remember from the nineties and from the like
(08:35):
attacking gay folks, not even trans and drag queens and
all those folks, but just attacking gay folks and then
before that, attacking people of color, just in general, saying
the same exact thing, demonizing us, saying that we're immoral,
saying that we're sexual predators, and things like that. It's
just like the same old playbook, just with a new
name on it, just with a new cover, just like
(08:56):
when I was at the school looking at the broch
short And I think, unfortunately right now what seems to
really be striking me as a voter is, you know,
because I try my best to be as as balanced
as possible and really like, look at what's actually happening.
I didn't hear in the midterms that just passed recently.
(09:17):
I didn't hear a lot of the Republican candidates talking
about actual policy. I heard them talking about drag queens,
and I heard them talking about trans folks and demonizing
individuals and you know, human beings instead of actually talking
about the policies that they intend on bringing the things
that they're complaining about, because we're complaining about you know,
(09:38):
Joe Biden or the president, they're complaining about the Democrat policies.
But they're then they're saying, you know, we don't like inflation,
so let's attack drag queens. Understand it really is a
red herring. It's a distraction. It's a distraction. I think
the biggest tell was after the shooting in Texas, they
introduced the legislation that drag queens were harmful to kids
(10:00):
in Texas and it's I'm so glad that you said.
The thing about regurgitating the talking points. This goes all
the way back to like, you know, the fifties and sixties.
It was called the lavender scare, and they were basically
saying that all homosexuals were predators and you had to
protect your kids from them. In the seventies when I
grew up, Anita Bryant was saying that in Florida again,
(10:21):
Florida trying to pass the legislation to bar queer people
from teaching, from holding any position, saying queer people have
no business being in our schools, and they tried to
pass it in California with the Briggs initiative. It was
featured in the movie of the Life and Times of
Harvey Milk, and it's the same thing over and over again,
this distraction that we're somehow the problem. And then like
(10:42):
in the news, it always comes out that they're always
up to some bullshit that any kind of like accusation.
They're always accusing us of something that they're already doing.
Do you know what I mean? It's like if you
and and then this, this is how animate I am
right now Columbus, Ohio, the Proud Boys marched in with
guns and masks. That's the new thing because they're they're
(11:05):
now they want to wear masks. Now, want to wear
val You want to wear masks, So you do. We
can't see you, and and and to me, that's like
own it. Let me see your face. If you're gonna
preach this rhet right, let me see your face. So
they were marching on masks, armed to shut down a
drag queen library reading, to shut down a queen reading
to some kids. And to me, that's just it's the
(11:28):
height of like, if you really want to like shut
down predators, protest at church, go to Catholic literally quite literally. Yeah,
it's shocking to me. I mean the only thing that's
more shocking to me. I saw actually, right before I
(11:48):
visited You Hear the podcast, I was looking at something
on social media online somewhere and somebody I follow who's
progressive and post a lot of different things posted a
screen capture of a website where you could go and
sign up and register and report the drag shows. And
it's like, report drag shows here if you know of any,
(12:12):
let us know where and when, give us the details
and information. And so they're obviously putting this resource out
there for people to you know, utilize and report all
the drag shows. Like for years you've been you've been
doing these shows at like three o'clock in the morning
or it's some club somewhere, and like nobody's had a
problem with it until now. Nobody's had a problem with it.
(12:32):
And I don't know because I don't do a lot
of drag queen story hour, but I this is not
like the drag queens are reading, you know, like Erotica
to the kids. They're going in and reading Mary had
a Little Lad. You know, it's ridiculous. But the only
thing that scares me more than these politicians that are
like spewing this rhetoric is the fact that there are people,
(12:56):
I would like to think nice people who are somewhat
reads no Bowl, but not in this instance, who are
actually buying into this and using that to influence their
vote and actually going to the website and reporting the
s and supporting that, you know, and Alanie and I
were talking about how you can draw a direct line
from all the anti queer rhetoric to the shooting in
(13:18):
Colorado Springs. It's kind of like you inflator crazy people,
and it's just I don't know, I don't know, I
just I'm just wondering. But see, the thing is like
the fact that the Preservation of Marriage Act passed means
we're not as scary to some people anymore. And what
happens with queer issues is when you demonize us, we
(13:39):
come out even more in the media. We become even
more vocal in the media. So it's like you get
used to us, and then we become less scary because
then it's kind of like the thing in your mind
is always scarier than the actual thing of the actual reality,
because you don't actually know. The only way you can
demonize folks is if you lie about who we are
(14:00):
and you limit people from being able to be exposed
to us. But we're everywhere now and we're so much
more visible, and now that people are aware, seventy of
Americans support marriage equality and same sex marriage, and I'm
shocked that we I'm happily. I was reassured that there
were thirty nine House Republicans and I think sixteen Republican
(14:20):
Senators who supported and obviously all of the Democrats supported
the mimch McConnell did not support it, voted against it,
and he's in an interracial marriage. So whatever. Listen, I
have so much to talk to you about, but we
have to take a quick break, which will do and
we'll be right back after these messages and we're back.
(14:50):
So I want to know your take on this. As
I did the first trans dating show with Calpurnia Adams
for Loan, I remember, and I wanted to so off
the record about that. So that was around two thousand seven,
and then shortly thereafter I would say, I remember it
(15:11):
was in two thousand and twelve, Oranges the New Black
starts coming out and Laverne Cox is more visible and
she's on the cover of Time magazine as a trans
person in the world. Did you feel the shift in
media coverage in perception quickly or gradually? I mean, is
it a cop out to say both? No? Not no,
(15:32):
it's not I remember, um, you know, like in a
macro way, even before these representation which we you know,
we can go back and look and some things are problematic.
Every time you go back and look at something ten
or twenty years old, you can say, oh, we might
have done it differently. But these were images and stories
that were being put out by ourselves, whereas in the
(15:53):
past before that, it was other people talking about us
and putting out our stories for us, and they're version
of the story, their version of the story. And I
really do remember feeling so depressed when I was thinking
about when I was coming into my own thinking about
myself as a trans person, and then watching Jerry Springer,
which were really like if you wanted to see a
trains person on TV, that's where you would have to
(16:15):
go to see it, or the famous Mari Povich that's
a man Mari segments. Yeah, And so having those two
shows where like the audience was screaming man man man
and a trans woman or where like a trans woman
on Jerry Springer would like professor love to her boyfriend
or somebody, and then they would get up and like
hit her literally smack her upside there and a chair,
(16:37):
you know, I was like, this is depressing, and seeing
the dating show that you did, or seeing obviously Laverne
Cox and these glimpses, these little glimpses every few years
in the two thousand's was definitely a breath of fresh air.
And I remember the moment that I think really changed it,
really changed it. And I don't know if we give
it enough credit. Although if we watched the movie Disclosure,
(17:00):
which I urge everyone to do, that's pretty great, then
you'll see it. When Laverne Cox and Carmen Carrera, we're
both on Katie Kirk's talk show, Yes, and Katie so
famously asked Carmen about which genital surgeries she had had
and what was going on, and they both put the
kabash on that and they were like, you know what, No,
(17:21):
you can't ask us about this anymore. And this was
something Barbara Walters has asked about genital surgery, Oprah Winfrey
has asked about genital surgery. Yeah, it's like you were
objectified to the point where I can ask you anything
because it's like talking to a toaster. You're not like
a person with dignity that worthy of respect. You're not
a human with dignity. Yeah, yeah, that's so crazy, and
(17:44):
so Laverne and Carmen. Carmen objected to it, and she
kind of started the ball by Laverne said so famously
to Katie Kirk, if you ask us about our surgeries
and that's what you're bringing us on here to do,
or our genitalia, then you're not actually asking us about
our lived experience. Is what it is that we're going through,
and and you're not. You're just unaware of those things.
(18:04):
And Katie obviously that resonated with her enough to bring
the girls back on and really do it the right
way next time she had them on the show, and
she even did a series that was all about trans
folks and gender not conforming folks in America today. This
was back in something like that and it was a
great series, and so it showed that she learned. And
(18:27):
then since then, I kid you not, I really do
think that was a seminal moment, because I don't think
I've heard it reputable journalists or news organization asked those
types of questions, right, because you just kind of learned
what was appropriate or inappropriate, and there's those watershed moments.
It's kind of like after pose, the excuse was always,
(18:47):
we don't have the talent. I wanted to cast a transson,
but we didn't have the talent. And so like Jeffrey
Tambor is going to be the last person, the last
CIS gender person to play a trans person in major media.
So this generation of you know, because my kid is
now seventeen, going on eighteen, this generation is really redefining
(19:08):
what gender is and what gender means and what their
places in it, and certainly RuPaul's drag race has played
a huge part in that. Let's redirect the conversation towards
your experience, towards RuPaul. So you're performing in the New
York clubs. You must have known a lot of the
girls before they were on the show, every single one
of them, and they must have come back to you
with their experience. Yeah they did. I mean, well, honestly,
(19:31):
you know, I didn't really have the New York girls.
I knew the New York girls of course before going
on the show. The funny thing was, which probably still
have of course, definitely still happens. Once you were on
that show, honey, you were gone, and so I didn't
have a chance to sit and talk to you after
doing the show with most of the many of the girls,
because they'd already hit the road. They hit the road
and they'd be on tour and they do their thing,
(19:51):
and then the next group of girls would go, and
so it was moving very fast if you were in
the New York club scene, and it would feel like,
you know, today you're sitting around complaining about why everybody's
on Drag Race, and then tomorrow we're all on the show,
and so I guess it's my turn. And I remember,
I mean, I definitely remember season one. One of the
(20:13):
people doing casting was just straight up going around, I'm
sure to all the drag shows. Definitely came to mind
and just asked me, do you want to be on
a new reality show with ru Paul? You know, you
could just go on. And of course this was before
the show had every premiere, so I was like, honey,
I don't want to go on some what the kind
of Jerry Springer thing? Because I had we hadn't seen
(20:36):
anything like that before, and so I was like, no,
thank you. Obviously, you know, years later I decided to
go on. Nine years later, Um, how many times did
you submit? Submitted? Three times? Three times? A charm. The
first was season seven, season eight, and then finally season nine.
And where where were you when you heard the news
that you were going to be on Honey? I was
sitting at home gossiping. And I've said this once or
(20:59):
twice before, I never said who it was. I was
on the phone with my good girlfriend, and you know,
we we cursed at each other as a term of endearment,
as you know, and so I'm like, bitch, what's up, bitch?
And so I was on the phone with my girlfriend,
and then we kind of got disconnected and the phone rang,
and I have the land line, so I didn't even like,
(21:19):
look who it was, And so I picked up the phone, bitch,
what a bit? And it was the The person that
was calling was one of the producers from Drag Race, like,
we'd like to put you on the show. And I
was like, oh my god. But the girlfriend that I
was talking to was the fabulous actress who just started
in a brilliant film called Monica. Her name is Trace Lassett.
And we were on the phone gossiping and gabbing and
(21:41):
all that stuff, and so she was a person I
was on the phone with when they called to tell
me I was on the show. Oh you killed on
the show on season nine, I mean it was you're
You're definitely a standout. You made it to the season finale.
How do you feel about your representation on the show,
because some people come on afterwards and go, I don't know,
I had gotten to what argument and they turned it
to the whole season? What was your experience? I mean,
(22:02):
I I think I've witnessed what that looks like, it
like kind of feels like, because I was certainly afraid
of that, and I just I think I might have
told you this before, but I was watching this TV
show when I was auditioning and preparing. I was packing
my bags, which was like a few the week before going,
I was and I was watching I binged watch this
(22:24):
show Unreal, which is a reality TV show A bachelor. Yeah,
there was some manipulative and so conniving, and I psyched
myself into thinking that's what they're gonna do, that's what
they're gonna like and so anyway, but I was like
in a weird headspace when I went, and so I
was relieved when it was very for me, it was
(22:47):
very straightforward in watching it back that everything pretty much
was straightforward but nothing felt overly contrived to me, and
I was happy with how I came off on the show.
In fact, I was to worry, not because like, am
I gonna look like a bitch or not. I wasn't
even focused on that. I was really thinking, Okay, I'm
going on the show as out and trans, and I'm
(23:09):
going to have these conversations. And again I was on
the phone with my girl and and she was like, Girl,
I was like, should I Should I talk about it
on the show? Should I? Not? Should I? How should I?
She's like, girl, you are who you are going there,
and you say who you are and if they have
a problem with it, fuck them. Yeah, that's that was
my That was my yeah. And so then when I
(23:32):
was watching it back, I actually felt good, not only
about how I was portrayed, but then how I tried
my best to represent the community and trans queen. You know, well,
it's a big responsibility. Now, you weren't the first trans
woman on the show, but I think were you the
first contestant who was out from the beginning, because Kylie
(23:54):
came out later on at a reunion show. I believe
Carmen came out after the show, or or were they
out as trans women during the show while they were competing.
I don't really know everyone's experience, and some of the
girls didn't like talked about you know, when you talk
about it versus when it actually happens in life sometimes
two different things. I think one of the two most
(24:15):
sort of emotional coming out moments of the earlier seasons were,
of course so Nick kylie Son, who announced during her
and it was a very emotional moment during her reunion,
and then Monica Beverly Hills, who announced during the season
on The Runway and then got eliminated the next episode.
(24:36):
I was out, you know, out as trans. I came
out in just to everyone I knew. Of course, I
wasn't on national TV. I wasn't famous, but you were
already living your life as an openly trader. I was
already living my Yeah, and my first time ever doing
national television, like unscripted national television was The Daily Show
(24:58):
when the same year Trevor Noah took over for the
year after Trevor noa yeah in twenties sixteen, and I
had the chance to talk about being out and being
trans on It was April I think eighteen sixteen, folks
who are looking for the receipts can go back and
look at the receiver that's before a drag race, and
that's me talking about trans politics and trying to help
(25:21):
the community and being out as a trans woman. And
I was on there with Leith Ashley and Johncelyn DeFries
a whole bunch of other really fabulous trans folks talking
about the trans panic buill, the bathroom bill that was
Carolina that was introduced in See It's They're all these
beer based bills, you know. It's kind of like any
civil rights fight always has a fight about the bathroom,
having to share the bathroom, or or a trans person.
(25:47):
It's always about the bathroom. Okay, on a lighter note,
I want a fan girl a little bit and talk
about your drag race journey, the your memorable moments, the
one that stands out to me and everybody. I'm such
a fan. I watch on YouTube videos lip syncs that
I think a legendary I mean me too, Darling and
I love and the one with you and Cynthia Lee
(26:07):
Fontane music with you in the Pink Madonna thing. Oh
my god, that whole episode you you you shot her
with an invisible shot off shot shot her? Did you
have that planned in advance? I mean no, I didn't
have it planned, however, I mean it was a combination
(26:30):
of me thinking fast on my feet and then also
thinking like minutes before going on to you know, because
I knew I was gonna you know, they tell you're
gonna lip sync and then you stand there for what
feels like an hour waiting for them to adjust the
legs bear. And so during that time, I was like, Okay,
what can I do? How am I going to use
the stage? Oh, my dress as my dress gonna what
(26:50):
am I gonna do? Like, you know, because I've had
to think about what am I gonna do with my jewelry?
Is my hair gonna fly off? What's gonna happen? And
so I ran down that sort of list in my
head about like, Okay, you're gonna have to hike up
your dress because my dress was like long and my
legs were like in a pencil skirt, so I couldn't
do anything. So I like literally hike my dress up
around my booty to dance. I was like, whatever you did,
(27:11):
and I didn't have So when you shot her, I
was like, well, she's gonna win. And then but also
when you did that typewriter dance and I saw Rule
lose it to that, I was like, she's got it.
So meeting Gaga, that was your season as well, right,
you were the Gaga season. Was that a gag and
a half thing? That was a Gaga? Gaga is Chicaga
(27:31):
Laga La? We did not know and we were of course,
we had no idea how many girls that were gonna
be on this season. So when the fourteenth girl comes in,
We're like, oh, here she is. And the first thing
everybody thought was who is this tiny like Ganga is short,
And we were like, who is this tiny motherfucking bitch
(27:52):
coming into this thing with all these fabulous costumes and
looking so fierce And I was like, Hey, that kind
of looks like Gaga. And then when she spoke, it
was like the first we thought it was like, is
Derek Barry coming like to do a Gaga thing? Like
that's what we That's what I thought, And then when
she spoke, I was like, Oh, that's Gaga. That is
that is no no other than Ganga, and we gged
(28:13):
y they do it now a lot on the season's
but they obviously have had celebrities on the show before,
but I think that was one of the first major
celebrities who from what I can remember, visited who visited untapped,
and that was not They were like, we gotta go,
we have to go, and they were like we have
to roll. And Gaga was like, no, I'm going back
(28:35):
there and I want to talk to these girls. And
not only did she go back there to say, you know,
believe in yourself or these like platitudinal like speeches that
they do these days, she came back there with notes.
I remember she came back there with positive notes and
also some constructive criticism for every single girl, and she
(28:58):
had things written, pages written, She gave some earrings or
something like. It was like a whole experience, and so
that was a gift. Yes, that was mother Monster and
you were a drag mother Monster yourself that season. You
gave birth to the fabulous Winter Green, who has now
who about her own universe? Now you gotta just set
(29:18):
her up does and her own fan base star crazy.
That is a sassy queen, I'll tell you yeah. And
you know I've seen Serge when I've gone back to
the show. Sergeant still they're working as a cameraman, I
just absolutely love it. Okay, before we go to the break,
one of my favorite outfits of yours was the Dominatris
outfit that you wore in your season. When you came
(29:39):
out and you would just queen and queen. You had
this look in your eye. I remember turning to my husband, like,
she's done this before. You looked very experienced. On that note,
we have to take a quick break. When we come back,
I want to talk to everyman all about her post
drag raised life because it is so rich, so full.
(30:03):
She's doing a million things and we're going to talk
about all of it after these messages and we're back.
Would you do all stores if they asked you to
do it? And I have to be honest, they did
ask me to do it, and I had to say no,
I was unable to do it. But it was strictly
(30:25):
a scheduling thing. I know some people might think, oh,
she doesn't want to do it or whatever. It was
just a schedule and thing. I was literally getting ready
to premier on Broadway right where it was the opening week,
and that was June. You did the head Over Heels
Go Goes musical on Broadway and that's when they were
filming season four. I believe of all stars and I
(30:49):
was not able to do it. And you were the
first one of the first out trans people in a
role on Broadway? Am I correct in a musical? Yeah?
I mean listen, I like to give credit where credits due.
We never know who was out or who you know,
we never know who was who was trans. But as
far as being out and associated with the show, the
(31:11):
official title is the first trans woman to originate a
principal role, like a starring role in a Broadway musical,
So we kind of have to be that specific in
order for I was the very first gay Asian series
regular on network television. So those distinctions you gotta there
are there. I gotta grab them while you can. So
(31:33):
post Drag Race, you've been so busy. You have a
show right now, call me mother? Can you tell us
a little bit me mother? It kind of picks up
continues the imagination where RuPaul's Drag Race kind of opened
the door to and it's obviously it's a drag reality
competition show. It's producing Canada, so many of the contestants
(31:55):
are Canadian, and it's similar in that it's a drag
reality competition show. But basically the theme is three drag Mothers.
I'm a drag mother of the house, three drag houses
with competitors and one winner. And so at the end
of each episode, the house that scores the lowest or
is in the bottom. That mother has to decide which
(32:16):
of her drag children to send home. It's like Sophie's
choice to get it really is at the end of
the show. It really is, It really is. I'm loving
the seventies eighties new movie references very much, so wow, yeah,
but it's a wonderful time. I'm on there with a
couple of fabulous queens, legendary queen named Barbada and from
(32:41):
RuPaul Drag Race UK Crystal, and so we are the
three house mothers on there. I'm the mother of the
house of dual set, which basically means Candy and French
and Italian and all the foreign tongues. And so that's
what it is. And I am very proud to say
my house had the winner of the season one, who
(33:04):
is a drag artist named Toddy. One of my favorite
things about the show, though, in addition to it being
drag entertainers, it's any kind of dragon, drag kings, drag queens,
non binary, everybody whoever it's up and everybody and so
someone non binary performer Toddy, who is my drag child,
was the season one winner, which means I won Mother
(33:26):
of the Year. And then so now we're in season
two right now and we're coming up on the finale
next week. Can you tell all the school friends really
quickly what platform that's streaming on again? Yeah, it's streaming
on out TV. You can just go to your streaming
device and then just download, or you can go to
out tv dot com and just watch it on the Witness. Now,
you just finished a tour with the fabulous Juju B,
(33:48):
who I get mistaken for all the time when I
land in a town. Yeah, drag for sure. I always say, like,
you know this town, Chicago, you really know how to
treat celebrity. As soon as I got off the playing,
people were yelling ju ju b, jujub, we love you.
So you flew the lovely Skies with airline ammar Ams,
(34:09):
which is uh jijibs real name. I sure did, I
sure did. How many cities did you do? And what
kind of show was it? It was a tensity tour
and Jujub we both obviously love the art form of
drag and we love drag performances. We've we've done many
many shows for many years, doing clubs, doing the dance music.
We have original music out that we've done. I've had
(34:31):
songs about my titties and songs about this and that,
but I really wanted to, you know, my true love
and one of my biggest passions and dreams was always
to be able to perform live music with a band,
original music with the band and and do R and
B music. And Jujub we got to talking and Juju
(34:52):
have the same feeling and so we after a late
night of being opportunity late on the phone, we came
up came up with this idea to for the country
with a band, which is very expensive, Yeah yeah, and
go around from city to city and perform our original
R and B music. And we both have a passion
(35:12):
for R and B. And you know, I think I
remember being in New York City and going down to
some of the R and B clubs in New York
or jazz clubs, and there was one across the street
from my house until recently it closed, and hearing live
music where there's no I have nothing electronic, and then
it's just a guitar player and an upright bass player
and some drums and a singer and or whatever and
(35:34):
a piano and they make the most beautiful music. That's
something that people, frankly our age. I'm sorry, Alec take
for grant forgetting it that. I think people who yeah,
people who are twenty years old or maybe even now one,
live music is gone for them there it's not accessible,
So we wanted to bring that back for people. I
went to the opera last night to see this new soprano.
(35:56):
Her name is Angel Blue. She was a student at
U C. L A. And she was a contestant and
Miss America pageant and now she's this international offera star.
And just to sit in a theater and hear live
voices and music again was just mind blowing. After being
locked up in the pandemic for so long, I want
to talk to you forever and ever, because you're like
(36:16):
my best friend in high school and we would get
busted together for doing bad things. But I have to
ask you a real quick what's next? What's happening next
for you? You You said you're rehearsing something. Yeah, I'm rehearsing something,
a bunch of things. I had a really great year,
to be honest with you. So in addition to season
two of Call Me Mother, which is out now and
(36:37):
people can watch, I just wrapped filming two TV shows.
One is season two of Harlem, which comes out next
month in January. Yeah, Harlem, it's on Amazon. That's in
a Ventley Bowser show. Yeah, and it's starring Megan Good.
It's a fantastic show. People should check it out. So
I'm recurring on there. And then I also wrapped the
(37:01):
first season of a show that was written and produced
and created by Michelle Buteau called Survival of the Thickest,
based on her best selling book, and that's a half
hour comedy. It's on Netflix, and I am also I
have a recurring role on that as well. And so
just did that. I'm really excited. And I'm in rehearsals
(37:22):
for coming to Los Angeles, which I never do, to
perform at the Mark Taper Theater Transparent the Musical. Yes, Yes,
I will see you there. I'm definitely going. I'm at
the Taper all the time. I adore you. You're so
talented and everything that you have right now. This moment
for you is earned. You earned it. You put in
(37:42):
the hours, you did the work, and I love the
way you kind of present yourself is so unapologetic and
so matter of fact, but it's done so lovingly. Do
you know what I mean? It's like your whole vibe
is not confrontational. You're kind of like when you said
(38:03):
to me that you had come out in two thousand twelve,
I was like, she's had all this time to kind
of you know, like the Beyonce song. She's comfing, she's
cozy in her skin. Goddamn, she loves yourself. So I
adore you. Where can all our squirrel friends find you?
On social media? They can hit me up at Peppermint
two four seven, just Peppermint two four seven on everything Twitter,
(38:26):
on all socials. Okay, I might cancel on Twitter soon
after all. Yeah, I canceled my Twitter two I couldn't
take it anymore. One last question? Is it fashion allegedly?
Is it fashion allegedly? Well, goodbye, Peppermint is so good
seeing you and I'll see you when you come to
(38:48):
l A. Alright, I won't miss it. I love you
all right. You can find me if you want to
leave us a message on the show about if you're
loving it. Message media on Instagram at alec Papa, you
can talk to our co host, Lonnie Love. You can
d m her at comic Lonnie Love on Instagram and
at Lonnie Love on the Twitter show The Girls Love
(39:12):
on social media. I'm telling you we had Peppermint on today.
You've heard her journey. That's similar to a lot of
other girl's journey. Just show them respect, show them love
on all media and d m me anytime you like. Now.
Remember you can listen to Squirl Friends, the official RuPaul's
Drag Race podcast on the I Heart Radio app or
(39:32):
wherever you get your podcasts. And if you like this episode,
make sure to rate review us five stars. Please and
tell a friend. You can catch up on past episodes
of RuPaul's Drag Race and All Stars on Paramount Plus.
I Love You, we Love you Here it's girlfriends. This
is a safe space for all the squirrel Friends and
for anybody who chimes in to listen. We love you.
(39:55):
We'll see you next week. Bye bye.
Hello, Hello, Hello, and welcome to another episode of Squirrel Friends,
the official RuPaul's Drag Race Podcast. I'm Alec Mapa. How
are you? How about some applause and applause break? Oh,
thank you, thank you. Listen to that. They're going absolutely crazy.
I'm in an a bulliant mood today because I have
(00:24):
some very good news. First off the docket, the protection
from marriage at past and so it's really nice. I've
been married for twenty years and every four years my
marriage and my family has been up for a vote.
So it's kind of a relief to kind of be
at this place where we don't have to worry about that.
The other bit of good news that I have, I
(00:44):
need that shade rattle standing by Florida State Representative Joseph Harding,
the Republican who introduced the Don't Say Gay Bill, has
been criminally indicted by the Department of Justice or wire fraud,
money laundering, and making false statements. That's in Florida. But
(01:05):
remember we're the problem. Okay, you know, he's money laundering,
he's doing a wire fraud, he's ripping off his constituents.
But drag queens and trans people are the problem. This
is what we talk about here on Squirrel Friends, and
we have an incredible guest today. Talk about somebody who
is newsworthy. She is of the moment. Our guest today
(01:27):
was on RuPaul's Drag Race season nine. She's also an actress, singer, songwriter, activist,
and drag icon who is sweet and sassy. I'm head
over heels. Did you see what I did there? Head
over heels? Here? Please welcome to program, my girl, Pepper
meant yallo. Well, hello, darling, We've not each other for
(01:48):
so long. I'm holding up a picture of us together
on a float. Oh my gosh, I think this is
like early two thousand six. Look at my abs, Look
at your hair. Oh my gosh. So we're on a
I'd float together with all of these like people in
their underpants and everything. And I remember like at the
time I was doing Ugly Betty, but in the time
(02:10):
in media, it still felt like as a queer person
of color, I had just gotten my foot in the door.
And I was like, do you know what I mean,
just kind of like absolutely just arrived at the party,
and then all these years later, you're now a mainstream star.
I mean to kind of have come all of the assistance.
How does that feel for you? I mean mainstream. I
(02:30):
don't know whose stream you're talking I know, but you're
you're in mainstream media. I mean, you've been on a
Broadway play, You're you're currently in a television show. Now
people know you by name, they're asking for you. So
take us back to the time that we met on
that float. Where were you back then? Honey? I was
working in all the bars and clubs in New York.
And the funny thing was when I originally moved to
(02:51):
New York to go to acting school. And that's only
because the Philadelphia School of the Arts, which is where
I'm from, and wanted to go, oh, you're a Filing girl. Me,
I'm a p a girl. I'm a Philly girl. And
they didn't accept me in the school. And so I
was like, well, I guess I'll have to go to
New York because I knew and my method was very unscientific.
I was just looking when they said go and choose
(03:11):
a college, go to the library at the high school
and choose what school you want to go to. I
was just looking at the brochures. I wasn't even looking
in the brochures. I was just looking at the brochures,
and these two schools had gay people and queers on
the cover. Clearly, that's where I want to go on
the broch shore. So that's where I applied, and I
(03:34):
got into one of them, thankfully, American Musical and Dramatic
Academy here in New York. And so that's why I
came to New York. And I remember something my mom,
My mom used to work at a college that I
also couldn't get accepted to, and she used to get
free tickets when celebrities and and guest speakers would speak.
And so I was listening to John Amos, who was
(03:55):
the father on Good Time Dawn, Damn, Damn, and he
was talking and I'll never forget one of the things
he said. I don't remember anything else, but I do
remember this. There were some actors and theatrical people in
the audience and they're asking questions, and he said, if
you are a professional actor when you are doing it
(04:16):
for a living, which obviously makes sense, And so that
really resonated with me as a young teenager all these
years later. And so when I was working in New
York City in the clubs and doing drag every single
night of the week for like fifty dollars a night. Right.
I was like, oh, I made it. I'm paying my
rent bairly, but paying my rent as a performer only
(04:38):
and not you know, having to do any of the
other stuff perspective. Yeah, you didn't have a survival job.
This was your job job in doing those gigs. This
is what I talked about every week on the show.
Me and Lonnie are really trying to change the culture
of the drag race fandom because it could be really savage.
And what the point that we drive home week after
week after week after week is that when you see
the girls on the show, you're seeing a seeny teeny
(05:02):
part of their journey. You're seeing a culmination. I mean
you're talking years of those gigs that you're talking about,
like where you're getting up for fifty or sometimes no
money at all. What was it like when you first
started out? What were some of your experiences? First of all, like,
how did it even like happen? Like, Okay, I'm doing
this doing drags. Well, I was at art school and
(05:24):
I started doing dabbling and drag here and there back
home before moving to New York. It's just like a
fun thing as a joke whatever, and then Halloween hit
and then suddenly it was like every week. But when
I moved to New York City, obviously New York City
nightlife is really popular and it definitely was in the
nineties when I mean to New York and so I
(05:45):
was like, you know, let's go out to the club.
Of course, in the beginning, I was paying to go
to the club, but after a while, I was like,
I ain't paying for this. Why don't you let me
come here for free? Right, and I'll do drag every
single week? And I was like working like that was
me working, like just going for rate? Is that funny?
Like that's such a New York club thing. It's like
if you're a parade float who goes to the club.
(06:06):
Eventually it's like, we'll pay me and then everybody can
see me for free, exactly exactly. And so that's when
I ended up doing. And then eventually they put me
onto the budget and I was working with all the girls.
And one of my favorite nights working was New Year's Eve.
I've been working there for several years, but New Year's
(06:26):
a young man Marshall Mathers was working, was performing. He
was a guest performer a k a. Eminem is a
guest performer, and they had the whole club roped off
in some kind of weird way, which they normally didn't do.
It wasn't because it was Eminem. It was because it
was New Year's and nobody knew who Eminem was. And
he was like this guy, this white rapper getting up rapping.
(06:49):
You know, he was obviously really good, and he had
his huge crew with him. And I was like going
to have a like a little hook up, you know
at the club, which the girls sometimes do in the
secret rooms, right, And so we one of the ways.
Those were the days. Those are the days are like
all the queens knew all the nooks and crannies and
the club where you can go and have a little privacy,
you know what I mean. And so I went under
(07:11):
the stage, which is like you know, you could go
under the stage while Marshall Matters is performing to have
my little hook up. It was a total scandal, Darling,
I love this story. Anyway, that was the beginning. I
don't do that anymore. You're looking up with somebody underneath
Eminem performing. You know this is a squirrel. Friends, First,
(07:32):
I'm talking about something hidden assignation while Marshall Bathers was performing.
Now listen, I love you as a person and I
think that what was great about the show is we
really get to know the people behind the personas and everything.
And also, drag queens and trans women have been a
part of my life for most of my adult life.
Why do you think right now? I know the reason
(07:54):
right now, but I want your opinion on why the
politicians are doubling down right out on all the transphobia
and and drags phobia, you know, the demonization of drag
queens performing or reading at libraries, or or trans people existing.
I mean, there's got to be lots of different reasons.
And I you know, I remember being a young kid
(08:15):
hearing Republican politicians always talking about the war on culture,
the culture wars, war and family values and morality, which
I think is just a load of b s and
they're really just stuck in the past. But one thing
that they are doing speaking of the past, is they
really are regurgitating a lot of the same old tactics
that you remember from the nineties and from the like
(08:35):
attacking gay folks, not even trans and drag queens and
all those folks, but just attacking gay folks and then
before that, attacking people of color, just in general, saying
the same exact thing, demonizing us, saying that we're immoral,
saying that we're sexual predators, and things like that. It's
just like the same old playbook, just with a new
name on it, just with a new cover, just like
(08:56):
when I was at the school looking at the broch
short And I think, unfortunately right now what seems to
really be striking me as a voter is, you know,
because I try my best to be as as balanced
as possible and really like, look at what's actually happening.
I didn't hear in the midterms that just passed recently.
(09:17):
I didn't hear a lot of the Republican candidates talking
about actual policy. I heard them talking about drag queens,
and I heard them talking about trans folks and demonizing
individuals and you know, human beings instead of actually talking
about the policies that they intend on bringing the things
that they're complaining about, because we're complaining about you know,
(09:38):
Joe Biden or the president, they're complaining about the Democrat policies.
But they're then they're saying, you know, we don't like inflation,
so let's attack drag queens. Understand it really is a
red herring. It's a distraction. It's a distraction. I think
the biggest tell was after the shooting in Texas, they
introduced the legislation that drag queens were harmful to kids
(10:00):
in Texas and it's I'm so glad that you said.
The thing about regurgitating the talking points. This goes all
the way back to like, you know, the fifties and sixties.
It was called the lavender scare, and they were basically
saying that all homosexuals were predators and you had to
protect your kids from them. In the seventies when I
grew up, Anita Bryant was saying that in Florida again,
(10:21):
Florida trying to pass the legislation to bar queer people
from teaching, from holding any position, saying queer people have
no business being in our schools, and they tried to
pass it in California with the Briggs initiative. It was
featured in the movie of the Life and Times of
Harvey Milk, and it's the same thing over and over again,
this distraction that we're somehow the problem. And then like
(10:42):
in the news, it always comes out that they're always
up to some bullshit that any kind of like accusation.
They're always accusing us of something that they're already doing.
Do you know what I mean? It's like if you
and and then this, this is how animate I am
right now Columbus, Ohio, the Proud Boys marched in with
guns and masks. That's the new thing because they're they're
(11:05):
now they want to wear masks. Now, want to wear
val You want to wear masks, So you do. We
can't see you, and and and to me, that's like
own it. Let me see your face. If you're gonna
preach this rhet right, let me see your face. So
they were marching on masks, armed to shut down a
drag queen library reading, to shut down a queen reading
to some kids. And to me, that's just it's the
(11:28):
height of like, if you really want to like shut
down predators, protest at church, go to Catholic literally quite literally. Yeah,
it's shocking to me. I mean the only thing that's
more shocking to me. I saw actually, right before I
(11:48):
visited You Hear the podcast, I was looking at something
on social media online somewhere and somebody I follow who's
progressive and post a lot of different things posted a
screen capture of a website where you could go and
sign up and register and report the drag shows. And
it's like, report drag shows here if you know of any,
(12:12):
let us know where and when, give us the details
and information. And so they're obviously putting this resource out
there for people to you know, utilize and report all
the drag shows. Like for years you've been you've been
doing these shows at like three o'clock in the morning
or it's some club somewhere, and like nobody's had a
problem with it until now. Nobody's had a problem with it.
(12:32):
And I don't know because I don't do a lot
of drag queen story hour, but I this is not
like the drag queens are reading, you know, like Erotica
to the kids. They're going in and reading Mary had
a Little Lad. You know, it's ridiculous. But the only
thing that scares me more than these politicians that are
like spewing this rhetoric is the fact that there are people,
(12:56):
I would like to think nice people who are somewhat
reads no Bowl, but not in this instance, who are
actually buying into this and using that to influence their
vote and actually going to the website and reporting the
s and supporting that, you know, and Alanie and I
were talking about how you can draw a direct line
from all the anti queer rhetoric to the shooting in
(13:18):
Colorado Springs. It's kind of like you inflator crazy people,
and it's just I don't know, I don't know, I
just I'm just wondering. But see, the thing is like
the fact that the Preservation of Marriage Act passed means
we're not as scary to some people anymore. And what
happens with queer issues is when you demonize us, we
(13:39):
come out even more in the media. We become even
more vocal in the media. So it's like you get
used to us, and then we become less scary because
then it's kind of like the thing in your mind
is always scarier than the actual thing of the actual reality,
because you don't actually know. The only way you can
demonize folks is if you lie about who we are
(14:00):
and you limit people from being able to be exposed
to us. But we're everywhere now and we're so much
more visible, and now that people are aware, seventy of
Americans support marriage equality and same sex marriage, and I'm
shocked that we I'm happily. I was reassured that there
were thirty nine House Republicans and I think sixteen Republican
(14:20):
Senators who supported and obviously all of the Democrats supported
the mimch McConnell did not support it, voted against it,
and he's in an interracial marriage. So whatever. Listen, I
have so much to talk to you about, but we
have to take a quick break, which will do and
we'll be right back after these messages and we're back.
(14:50):
So I want to know your take on this. As
I did the first trans dating show with Calpurnia Adams
for Loan, I remember, and I wanted to so off
the record about that. So that was around two thousand seven,
and then shortly thereafter I would say, I remember it
(15:11):
was in two thousand and twelve, Oranges the New Black
starts coming out and Laverne Cox is more visible and
she's on the cover of Time magazine as a trans
person in the world. Did you feel the shift in
media coverage in perception quickly or gradually? I mean, is
it a cop out to say both? No? Not no,
(15:32):
it's not I remember, um, you know, like in a
macro way, even before these representation which we you know,
we can go back and look and some things are problematic.
Every time you go back and look at something ten
or twenty years old, you can say, oh, we might
have done it differently. But these were images and stories
that were being put out by ourselves, whereas in the
(15:53):
past before that, it was other people talking about us
and putting out our stories for us, and they're version
of the story, their version of the story. And I
really do remember feeling so depressed when I was thinking
about when I was coming into my own thinking about
myself as a trans person, and then watching Jerry Springer,
which were really like if you wanted to see a
trains person on TV, that's where you would have to
(16:15):
go to see it, or the famous Mari Povich that's
a man Mari segments. Yeah, And so having those two
shows where like the audience was screaming man man man
and a trans woman or where like a trans woman
on Jerry Springer would like professor love to her boyfriend
or somebody, and then they would get up and like
hit her literally smack her upside there and a chair,
(16:37):
you know, I was like, this is depressing, and seeing
the dating show that you did, or seeing obviously Laverne
Cox and these glimpses, these little glimpses every few years
in the two thousand's was definitely a breath of fresh air.
And I remember the moment that I think really changed it,
really changed it. And I don't know if we give
it enough credit. Although if we watched the movie Disclosure,
(17:00):
which I urge everyone to do, that's pretty great, then
you'll see it. When Laverne Cox and Carmen Carrera, we're
both on Katie Kirk's talk show, Yes, and Katie so
famously asked Carmen about which genital surgeries she had had
and what was going on, and they both put the
kabash on that and they were like, you know what, No,
(17:21):
you can't ask us about this anymore. And this was
something Barbara Walters has asked about genital surgery, Oprah Winfrey
has asked about genital surgery. Yeah, it's like you were
objectified to the point where I can ask you anything
because it's like talking to a toaster. You're not like
a person with dignity that worthy of respect. You're not
a human with dignity. Yeah, yeah, that's so crazy, and
(17:44):
so Laverne and Carmen. Carmen objected to it, and she
kind of started the ball by Laverne said so famously
to Katie Kirk, if you ask us about our surgeries
and that's what you're bringing us on here to do,
or our genitalia, then you're not actually asking us about
our lived experience. Is what it is that we're going through,
and and you're not. You're just unaware of those things.
(18:04):
And Katie obviously that resonated with her enough to bring
the girls back on and really do it the right
way next time she had them on the show, and
she even did a series that was all about trans
folks and gender not conforming folks in America today. This
was back in something like that and it was a
great series, and so it showed that she learned. And
(18:27):
then since then, I kid you not, I really do
think that was a seminal moment, because I don't think
I've heard it reputable journalists or news organization asked those
types of questions, right, because you just kind of learned
what was appropriate or inappropriate, and there's those watershed moments.
It's kind of like after pose, the excuse was always,
(18:47):
we don't have the talent. I wanted to cast a transson,
but we didn't have the talent. And so like Jeffrey
Tambor is going to be the last person, the last
CIS gender person to play a trans person in major media.
So this generation of you know, because my kid is
now seventeen, going on eighteen, this generation is really redefining
(19:08):
what gender is and what gender means and what their
places in it, and certainly RuPaul's drag race has played
a huge part in that. Let's redirect the conversation towards
your experience, towards RuPaul. So you're performing in the New
York clubs. You must have known a lot of the
girls before they were on the show, every single one
of them, and they must have come back to you
with their experience. Yeah they did. I mean, well, honestly,
(19:31):
you know, I didn't really have the New York girls.
I knew the New York girls of course before going
on the show. The funny thing was, which probably still
have of course, definitely still happens. Once you were on
that show, honey, you were gone, and so I didn't
have a chance to sit and talk to you after
doing the show with most of the many of the girls,
because they'd already hit the road. They hit the road
and they'd be on tour and they do their thing,
(19:51):
and then the next group of girls would go, and
so it was moving very fast if you were in
the New York club scene, and it would feel like,
you know, today you're sitting around complaining about why everybody's
on Drag Race, and then tomorrow we're all on the show,
and so I guess it's my turn. And I remember,
I mean, I definitely remember season one. One of the
(20:13):
people doing casting was just straight up going around, I'm
sure to all the drag shows. Definitely came to mind
and just asked me, do you want to be on
a new reality show with ru Paul? You know, you
could just go on. And of course this was before
the show had every premiere, so I was like, honey,
I don't want to go on some what the kind
of Jerry Springer thing? Because I had we hadn't seen
(20:36):
anything like that before, and so I was like, no,
thank you. Obviously, you know, years later I decided to
go on. Nine years later, Um, how many times did
you submit? Submitted? Three times? Three times? A charm. The
first was season seven, season eight, and then finally season nine.
And where where were you when you heard the news
that you were going to be on Honey? I was
sitting at home gossiping. And I've said this once or
(20:59):
twice before, I never said who it was. I was
on the phone with my good girlfriend, and you know,
we we cursed at each other as a term of endearment,
as you know, and so I'm like, bitch, what's up, bitch?
And so I was on the phone with my girlfriend,
and then we kind of got disconnected and the phone rang,
and I have the land line, so I didn't even like,
(21:19):
look who it was, And so I picked up the phone, bitch,
what a bit? And it was the The person that
was calling was one of the producers from Drag Race, like,
we'd like to put you on the show. And I
was like, oh my god. But the girlfriend that I
was talking to was the fabulous actress who just started
in a brilliant film called Monica. Her name is Trace Lassett.
And we were on the phone gossiping and gabbing and
(21:41):
all that stuff, and so she was a person I
was on the phone with when they called to tell
me I was on the show. Oh you killed on
the show on season nine, I mean it was you're
You're definitely a standout. You made it to the season finale.
How do you feel about your representation on the show,
because some people come on afterwards and go, I don't know,
I had gotten to what argument and they turned it
to the whole season? What was your experience? I mean,
(22:02):
I I think I've witnessed what that looks like, it
like kind of feels like, because I was certainly afraid
of that, and I just I think I might have
told you this before, but I was watching this TV
show when I was auditioning and preparing. I was packing
my bags, which was like a few the week before going,
I was and I was watching I binged watch this
(22:24):
show Unreal, which is a reality TV show A bachelor. Yeah,
there was some manipulative and so conniving, and I psyched
myself into thinking that's what they're gonna do, that's what
they're gonna like and so anyway, but I was like
in a weird headspace when I went, and so I
was relieved when it was very for me, it was
(22:47):
very straightforward in watching it back that everything pretty much
was straightforward but nothing felt overly contrived to me, and
I was happy with how I came off on the show.
In fact, I was to worry, not because like, am
I gonna look like a bitch or not. I wasn't
even focused on that. I was really thinking, Okay, I'm
going on the show as out and trans, and I'm
(23:09):
going to have these conversations. And again I was on
the phone with my girl and and she was like, Girl,
I was like, should I Should I talk about it
on the show? Should I? Not? Should I? How should I?
She's like, girl, you are who you are going there,
and you say who you are and if they have
a problem with it, fuck them. Yeah, that's that was
my That was my yeah. And so then when I
(23:32):
was watching it back, I actually felt good, not only
about how I was portrayed, but then how I tried
my best to represent the community and trans queen. You know, well,
it's a big responsibility. Now, you weren't the first trans
woman on the show, but I think were you the
first contestant who was out from the beginning, because Kylie
(23:54):
came out later on at a reunion show. I believe
Carmen came out after the show, or or were they
out as trans women during the show while they were competing.
I don't really know everyone's experience, and some of the
girls didn't like talked about you know, when you talk
about it versus when it actually happens in life sometimes
two different things. I think one of the two most
(24:15):
sort of emotional coming out moments of the earlier seasons were,
of course so Nick kylie Son, who announced during her
and it was a very emotional moment during her reunion,
and then Monica Beverly Hills, who announced during the season
on The Runway and then got eliminated the next episode.
(24:36):
I was out, you know, out as trans. I came
out in just to everyone I knew. Of course, I
wasn't on national TV. I wasn't famous, but you were
already living your life as an openly trader. I was
already living my Yeah, and my first time ever doing
national television, like unscripted national television was The Daily Show
(24:58):
when the same year Trevor Noah took over for the
year after Trevor noa yeah in twenties sixteen, and I
had the chance to talk about being out and being
trans on It was April I think eighteen sixteen, folks
who are looking for the receipts can go back and
look at the receiver that's before a drag race, and
that's me talking about trans politics and trying to help
(25:21):
the community and being out as a trans woman. And
I was on there with Leith Ashley and Johncelyn DeFries
a whole bunch of other really fabulous trans folks talking
about the trans panic buill, the bathroom bill that was
Carolina that was introduced in See It's They're all these
beer based bills, you know. It's kind of like any
civil rights fight always has a fight about the bathroom,
having to share the bathroom, or or a trans person.
(25:47):
It's always about the bathroom. Okay, on a lighter note,
I want a fan girl a little bit and talk
about your drag race journey, the your memorable moments, the
one that stands out to me and everybody. I'm such
a fan. I watch on YouTube videos lip syncs that
I think a legendary I mean me too, Darling and
I love and the one with you and Cynthia Lee
(26:07):
Fontane music with you in the Pink Madonna thing. Oh
my god, that whole episode you you you shot her
with an invisible shot off shot shot her? Did you
have that planned in advance? I mean no, I didn't
have it planned, however, I mean it was a combination
(26:30):
of me thinking fast on my feet and then also
thinking like minutes before going on to you know, because
I knew I was gonna you know, they tell you're
gonna lip sync and then you stand there for what
feels like an hour waiting for them to adjust the
legs bear. And so during that time, I was like, Okay,
what can I do? How am I going to use
the stage? Oh, my dress as my dress gonna what
(26:50):
am I gonna do? Like, you know, because I've had
to think about what am I gonna do with my jewelry?
Is my hair gonna fly off? What's gonna happen? And
so I ran down that sort of list in my
head about like, Okay, you're gonna have to hike up
your dress because my dress was like long and my
legs were like in a pencil skirt, so I couldn't
do anything. So I like literally hike my dress up
around my booty to dance. I was like, whatever you did,
(27:11):
and I didn't have So when you shot her, I
was like, well, she's gonna win. And then but also
when you did that typewriter dance and I saw Rule
lose it to that, I was like, she's got it.
So meeting Gaga, that was your season as well, right,
you were the Gaga season. Was that a gag and
a half thing? That was a Gaga? Gaga is Chicaga
(27:31):
Laga La? We did not know and we were of course,
we had no idea how many girls that were gonna
be on this season. So when the fourteenth girl comes in,
We're like, oh, here she is. And the first thing
everybody thought was who is this tiny like Ganga is short,
And we were like, who is this tiny motherfucking bitch
(27:52):
coming into this thing with all these fabulous costumes and
looking so fierce And I was like, Hey, that kind
of looks like Gaga. And then when she spoke, it
was like the first we thought it was like, is
Derek Barry coming like to do a Gaga thing? Like
that's what we That's what I thought, And then when
she spoke, I was like, Oh, that's Gaga. That is
that is no no other than Ganga, and we gged
(28:13):
y they do it now a lot on the season's
but they obviously have had celebrities on the show before,
but I think that was one of the first major
celebrities who from what I can remember, visited who visited untapped,
and that was not They were like, we gotta go,
we have to go, and they were like we have
to roll. And Gaga was like, no, I'm going back
(28:35):
there and I want to talk to these girls. And
not only did she go back there to say, you know,
believe in yourself or these like platitudinal like speeches that
they do these days, she came back there with notes.
I remember she came back there with positive notes and
also some constructive criticism for every single girl, and she
(28:58):
had things written, pages written, She gave some earrings or
something like. It was like a whole experience, and so
that was a gift. Yes, that was mother Monster and
you were a drag mother Monster yourself that season. You
gave birth to the fabulous Winter Green, who has now
who about her own universe? Now you gotta just set
(29:18):
her up does and her own fan base star crazy.
That is a sassy queen, I'll tell you yeah. And
you know I've seen Serge when I've gone back to
the show. Sergeant still they're working as a cameraman, I
just absolutely love it. Okay, before we go to the break,
one of my favorite outfits of yours was the Dominatris
outfit that you wore in your season. When you came
(29:39):
out and you would just queen and queen. You had
this look in your eye. I remember turning to my husband, like,
she's done this before. You looked very experienced. On that note,
we have to take a quick break. When we come back,
I want to talk to everyman all about her post
drag raised life because it is so rich, so full.
(30:03):
She's doing a million things and we're going to talk
about all of it after these messages and we're back.
Would you do all stores if they asked you to
do it? And I have to be honest, they did
ask me to do it, and I had to say no,
I was unable to do it. But it was strictly
(30:25):
a scheduling thing. I know some people might think, oh,
she doesn't want to do it or whatever. It was
just a schedule and thing. I was literally getting ready
to premier on Broadway right where it was the opening week,
and that was June. You did the head Over Heels
Go Goes musical on Broadway and that's when they were
filming season four. I believe of all stars and I
(30:49):
was not able to do it. And you were the
first one of the first out trans people in a
role on Broadway? Am I correct in a musical? Yeah?
I mean listen, I like to give credit where credits due.
We never know who was out or who you know,
we never know who was who was trans. But as
far as being out and associated with the show, the
(31:11):
official title is the first trans woman to originate a
principal role, like a starring role in a Broadway musical,
So we kind of have to be that specific in
order for I was the very first gay Asian series
regular on network television. So those distinctions you gotta there
are there. I gotta grab them while you can. So
(31:33):
post Drag Race, you've been so busy. You have a
show right now, call me mother? Can you tell us
a little bit me mother? It kind of picks up
continues the imagination where RuPaul's Drag Race kind of opened
the door to and it's obviously it's a drag reality
competition show. It's producing Canada, so many of the contestants
(31:55):
are Canadian, and it's similar in that it's a drag
reality competition show. But basically the theme is three drag Mothers.
I'm a drag mother of the house, three drag houses
with competitors and one winner. And so at the end
of each episode, the house that scores the lowest or
is in the bottom. That mother has to decide which
(32:16):
of her drag children to send home. It's like Sophie's
choice to get it really is at the end of
the show. It really is, It really is. I'm loving
the seventies eighties new movie references very much, so wow, yeah,
but it's a wonderful time. I'm on there with a
couple of fabulous queens, legendary queen named Barbada and from
(32:41):
RuPaul Drag Race UK Crystal, and so we are the
three house mothers on there. I'm the mother of the
house of dual set, which basically means Candy and French
and Italian and all the foreign tongues. And so that's
what it is. And I am very proud to say
my house had the winner of the season one, who
(33:04):
is a drag artist named Toddy. One of my favorite
things about the show, though, in addition to it being
drag entertainers, it's any kind of dragon, drag kings, drag queens,
non binary, everybody whoever it's up and everybody and so
someone non binary performer Toddy, who is my drag child,
was the season one winner, which means I won Mother
(33:26):
of the Year. And then so now we're in season
two right now and we're coming up on the finale
next week. Can you tell all the school friends really
quickly what platform that's streaming on again? Yeah, it's streaming
on out TV. You can just go to your streaming
device and then just download, or you can go to
out tv dot com and just watch it on the Witness. Now,
you just finished a tour with the fabulous Juju B,
(33:48):
who I get mistaken for all the time when I
land in a town. Yeah, drag for sure. I always say, like,
you know this town, Chicago, you really know how to
treat celebrity. As soon as I got off the playing,
people were yelling ju ju b, jujub, we love you.
So you flew the lovely Skies with airline ammar Ams,
(34:09):
which is uh jijibs real name. I sure did, I
sure did. How many cities did you do? And what
kind of show was it? It was a tensity tour
and Jujub we both obviously love the art form of
drag and we love drag performances. We've we've done many
many shows for many years, doing clubs, doing the dance music.
We have original music out that we've done. I've had
(34:31):
songs about my titties and songs about this and that,
but I really wanted to, you know, my true love
and one of my biggest passions and dreams was always
to be able to perform live music with a band,
original music with the band and and do R and
B music. And Jujub we got to talking and Juju
(34:52):
have the same feeling and so we after a late
night of being opportunity late on the phone, we came
up came up with this idea to for the country
with a band, which is very expensive, Yeah yeah, and
go around from city to city and perform our original
R and B music. And we both have a passion
(35:12):
for R and B. And you know, I think I
remember being in New York City and going down to
some of the R and B clubs in New York
or jazz clubs, and there was one across the street
from my house until recently it closed, and hearing live
music where there's no I have nothing electronic, and then
it's just a guitar player and an upright bass player
and some drums and a singer and or whatever and
(35:34):
a piano and they make the most beautiful music. That's
something that people, frankly our age. I'm sorry, Alec take
for grant forgetting it that. I think people who yeah,
people who are twenty years old or maybe even now one,
live music is gone for them there it's not accessible,
So we wanted to bring that back for people. I
went to the opera last night to see this new soprano.
(35:56):
Her name is Angel Blue. She was a student at
U C. L A. And she was a contestant and
Miss America pageant and now she's this international offera star.
And just to sit in a theater and hear live
voices and music again was just mind blowing. After being
locked up in the pandemic for so long, I want
to talk to you forever and ever, because you're like
(36:16):
my best friend in high school and we would get
busted together for doing bad things. But I have to
ask you a real quick what's next? What's happening next
for you? You You said you're rehearsing something. Yeah, I'm rehearsing something,
a bunch of things. I had a really great year,
to be honest with you. So in addition to season
two of Call Me Mother, which is out now and
(36:37):
people can watch, I just wrapped filming two TV shows.
One is season two of Harlem, which comes out next
month in January. Yeah, Harlem, it's on Amazon. That's in
a Ventley Bowser show. Yeah, and it's starring Megan Good.
It's a fantastic show. People should check it out. So
I'm recurring on there. And then I also wrapped the
(37:01):
first season of a show that was written and produced
and created by Michelle Buteau called Survival of the Thickest,
based on her best selling book, and that's a half
hour comedy. It's on Netflix, and I am also I
have a recurring role on that as well. And so
just did that. I'm really excited. And I'm in rehearsals
(37:22):
for coming to Los Angeles, which I never do, to
perform at the Mark Taper Theater Transparent the Musical. Yes, Yes,
I will see you there. I'm definitely going. I'm at
the Taper all the time. I adore you. You're so
talented and everything that you have right now. This moment
for you is earned. You earned it. You put in
(37:42):
the hours, you did the work, and I love the
way you kind of present yourself is so unapologetic and
so matter of fact, but it's done so lovingly. Do
you know what I mean? It's like your whole vibe
is not confrontational. You're kind of like when you said
(38:03):
to me that you had come out in two thousand twelve,
I was like, she's had all this time to kind
of you know, like the Beyonce song. She's comfing, she's
cozy in her skin. Goddamn, she loves yourself. So I
adore you. Where can all our squirrel friends find you?
On social media? They can hit me up at Peppermint
two four seven, just Peppermint two four seven on everything Twitter,
(38:26):
on all socials. Okay, I might cancel on Twitter soon
after all. Yeah, I canceled my Twitter two I couldn't
take it anymore. One last question? Is it fashion allegedly?
Is it fashion allegedly? Well, goodbye, Peppermint is so good
seeing you and I'll see you when you come to
(38:48):
l A. Alright, I won't miss it. I love you
all right. You can find me if you want to
leave us a message on the show about if you're
loving it. Message media on Instagram at alec Papa, you
can talk to our co host, Lonnie Love. You can
d m her at comic Lonnie Love on Instagram and
at Lonnie Love on the Twitter show The Girls Love
(39:12):
on social media. I'm telling you we had Peppermint on today.
You've heard her journey. That's similar to a lot of
other girl's journey. Just show them respect, show them love
on all media and d m me anytime you like. Now.
Remember you can listen to Squirl Friends, the official RuPaul's
Drag Race podcast on the I Heart Radio app or
(39:32):
wherever you get your podcasts. And if you like this episode,
make sure to rate review us five stars. Please and
tell a friend. You can catch up on past episodes
of RuPaul's Drag Race and All Stars on Paramount Plus.
I Love You, we Love you Here it's girlfriends. This
is a safe space for all the squirrel Friends and
for anybody who chimes in to listen. We love you.
(39:55):
We'll see you next week. Bye bye.
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