On today’s episode, Jason discusses the bombshell excerpt from Seth Wickersham revealing that Caleb Williams never wanted to be drafted by the Chicago Bears and why he believes Sunday’s Game 7 between the Denver Nuggets and Oklahoma City Thunder could have huge offseason ramifications for OKC. Later, The Athletic’s Ben Pickman swings by for a full WNBA season preview ahead of WNBA Opening Night.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
This is straight Fire with Jason McIntyre.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
What is up? Straight fire fight? It's me Jason McIntyre.
Straight Fire for Friday, May this sixteenth. Oh boyd, did
we have a good one today? Oh baby, you're gonna
love this. So not only do we get Denver forcing
a game seven, thank goodness, and we've got NBA action
(00:31):
on Sunday that matters. Denver okase game seven Sunday at
twelve thirty pm Pacific, So I guess through thirty Eastern
we talk about that game. But also, folks, this sneakily
is right this weekend. Are you ready the WNBA season starts?
And yes, we are actually previewing the WNBA season, although
(00:53):
you know, technically it's not the WNBA. We're more previewing
Caitlin Clark and the Indiana Fever. They tip off tomorrow
against Angel Reese in Chicago. It's almost as if the
WNBA is paying attention, saying, oh guys, hey, hey, we
got a load up on primetime matchups, big time games,
get them on TV, and it should be a good
(01:15):
one Saturday. So Ben Pickman will be joining us. He
covers the WNBA for The Athletic. Also covers women's college basketball,
but we mostly focus on Caitlin Clark and the thing
I love. And again, I don't know how much the audience,
i e. You guys care about this, but you know
everybody loves to talk about ratings. People love to talk
about ratings for the NBA, NFL, baseball, blah blah blah.
(01:39):
So if you listen into the interview, Ben says, in
the off season they were doing they were writing about
coaching changes and player movement, and it was setting every
record in the book at the athletic people actually cared
about the WNBA off season. Folks. That's the first time
I ever paid any attention to the WNBA off season.
(01:59):
I mean the fever. They only have five players back
from last year, totally new team, rebuilt around Caitlin Clark.
I'm excited. I'm not gonna lie now. Obviously, this is
a busy weekend after Mother's Day weekend. You know that
last weekend was for the moms. Now we kind of
get back to running around, chasing kids and doing all
that fun stuff. Your boy may be playing basketball three
(02:21):
days in a row. I don't know if the body
will hold up. I'm starting to wear down. I need
to go back on CREA team. You know, it's just like, oh, man,
bodies really her shoulder me nothing major, but yeah. So
I'm hoping to get in a lot of hoops this
weekend and then it will pivot to volleyball as the
weather warms up. Out of here anyways, So I do
want to talk about the NFL story, but we're not
(02:42):
gonna do it today. And that's the Caleb Williams didn't
want to go to Chicago. I'm sure you guys saw it.
It's in a book by Seth Wickersham. Now I've known
Seth Wickersham probably for fifteen years, dating way back to
the Big Lead. So as soon as the story came
out I read it, I was like, oh boy, this
is big, Seth, you gotta come on the pod next week.
So next week I have Seth wickershamon to talk about
Kayleb Williams trying to dodge the Bears. But it goes
(03:04):
to a larger picture really, And you know, when you
come out of college, if you're coming out of a
good school and you're at the top of your class
and you have good internships, you get to go wherever
you want. You get to go to the best. Okay,
in the NFL, you've got to go to the worst,
which usually is not just the worst team, but the
(03:25):
worst organization, the worst owner. Usually that's how it works.
And in this story, Kayleb Williams's dad is like, this
is so screwed up. It's messed up. Basically, he not
only has to go to the worst team. And the
Bears have never done quarterback right in their history. I'm
fairly certain they've never had a passer or throw for
four thousand yards. They've just never figured out quarterback. Now
(03:47):
it could be partially that they play in Chicago, but whatever,
here's the weird part. Once you're drafted, you're essentially locked
into them for at least seven years, possibly eight given
the franchise tag. And people don't think of it like that,
but think about this. If you come out and you're
twenty one, twenty two, and you're locked in for seven
(04:09):
eight years, it's like they got you for your pretty
much your prime. Now players are starting to play deeper
into their forties or sorry, thirties. Only one guy went
in his forties, and maybe there's a world where, hey,
these players are going to play better like Steph Curry
in the NBA, Lebron, these guys should not be putting
up the numbers and doing what they're doing. Now. Tom
(04:31):
Brady playing until you know, he's fifty eight years old.
Just kidding now, Aaron Rodgers of course is old, but
he had the Achilles not the same. Bottom line is
like it is kind of messed up that not only
do you get drafted there, but you're kind of pigeonholed
for a while. And what's interesting is this is why
Lebron left the Calves the first time, and all these
(04:53):
losers going after Lebron for leaving the Calves. They couldn't
build around him. Why should he stay because they because
they just happened to win a lottery and draft him.
Like I do find it stupid and I kind of
sort of side with Caleb Williams of his family. Now
I know the counter as well, Hey, what are you
gonna do it for a small market. You're never gonna
(05:14):
get a good player, Okay, I mean there are some
examples of teams not with the star quarterback finding the
right pieces elsewhere and making it happen and making deep
playoff runs like it can happen. You just gotta work
really really hard and have some of these dopey owners
get out of the way. So I think it's a
larger story. I love to talk about that stuff. You
guys know way into building teams, and I guess at
(05:36):
this juncture I should mention. Yes, Nakoxas suffered an absolutely
brutal loss in the LEGA MX quarterfinals. I literally couldn't
talk about it for a couple of days because I
was so angry, and behind the scenes there's a lot
of stuff happening. So we're it's basically it's a two.
(05:57):
It's a home and home and whoever out on top advances.
But if you're tied, it just goes to the higher seed,
which I think is goofy And we were the five.
We were playing the four anyways, first game tied zero zero.
We go to their place and it's zero zero and half.
They score the first goal. We're down one nothing. So
(06:17):
at this point it feels over. We need to get
two goals in the final, like forty minutes, I'm like,
there's no chance. I mean, they basically have a really
good back five. Well, we get an incredible goal. Our
horse Jose Paradella aka Patadona. Yes, He's Argentinian, so at
one point in his young career they thought, like, I
see some Diego Maradona. Anyways, this guy was extraordinary this year,
(06:39):
one of the best ten to fifteen players in the league.
And he gets an awesome assist and we tie it up. Okay,
and then with like I don't know, eight minutes left,
ten minutes left, we bring on our sub our big guy.
Interesting subplot. So when we went to Seattle to see
Nikoxa last summer, they picked you know, they sent the
GM come to pick us up and someone else and whatever,
(07:03):
and you know, we're talking to them and they're like,
oh yeah. I was like, what's the story with Battaloney?
He just signed and they're like, he's he just flew
in last night. He just joined the team. If you
had flown in earlier, like you would have been in
the car with him on the on the way to
the team hotel. And I was so excited. I was like,
(07:23):
oh wow, we got this guy, you know, young guy.
He gets an amazing header goal and somehow we take
a two to one league with like seven minutes left.
At this point, you know, it's Mother's Day. The wife's like, hey,
let's play this new game this you know, it's like
a card game called Spoons. I'm sure you guys have
heard of it. So we're playing Spoons and I have
never played, and I win the first round. But there's
(07:43):
like ten minutes left to go in the NACOXA game,
so I'm tapped out on Spoons and I lose, and
I'm like, oh darn, I lost, you know whatever, and
we just basically have to hold off for extra time
and we win. Now we're in their place, and obviously
it's a scene and we're holding them off for holding
them off, and they have this free kick from like
fifty yards out and they headed in and there's chaos
(08:04):
in the box, shoving, kicking, all this chaos, and after
like six seconds of just ball bouncing around, it somehow
goes in. Initially ruled a goal, and then about a
minute later the ref is like, wait, you know, the
a linesman has flag up. The line'sman called a foul
because this guy who attempted a kick ended up kicking
our goalie. Called a foul, So they disregard the goal
(08:26):
and I'm like yes, However, the stadium's going crazy, and
at this point you could tell the referees like, Okay,
I'm gonna go look at the var And I was
texting a bunch of people about this, and I'm like,
you know, there's just no way on planet Earth that
this referee we'll get out of Monterey, Mexico alive if
(08:47):
he does not award these guys the goal. You could
just see the It was tense, and there really isn't
a comparable situation to like the NBA or NFL. Obviously, yeah,
it's hot style environments in college and NFL and NBA,
but you know, no, people aren't attacking referees in these
(09:08):
leagues after the game. Now, they haven't done that in Mexico,
but listen, this ain't the USA anyway. So they look
at the var. You can see they're reviewing where the
guy kicks the goalie literally kicks our goalie and the
goalie is down. Then the goalie almost gets the ball,
doesn't blah blah blah, And of course they come out
and say goal in the stadium like loses its mind.
Everybody and our guys were irate. And I'm not going
(09:31):
to get into what happened in the days following. If
you want to go read it about it online. You can.
It was devastating, a major gut punch, and now we
had under the off we should be in the semi finals.
We had under the off season. But I will say
this is so exciting being part of a ownership group.
And again we're a very small minority owner. But you know,
(09:52):
I'm committed. I love sports. So I'm texting the GM,
one of the other owner, I like all the time,
what do you think about this guy? Like, I'm way
into it. I'm reading and obviously a lot of the
stuff covering our team is on websites that are only
in Spanish, and so I've got to Google translate all
of them, you know, and it's like, I just I
love this stuff. Anyways, it was a tough week, but overall,
(10:12):
good Listen, it's the deepest run we've had since we
took got in the ownership group. And now there's like,
all right, how do we go next level here? And
it's gonna be a fun offseason. Anyways, let me quickly
just talk about Nuggets one nineteen OKC one oh seven.
This was the not the Nicola Jokic game, not the
Jamal Murray game, not the Christian Brown game. He was
(10:34):
very good, career best twenty three playoff points. It was
the Julian Strather game. Who the kid from Goozaga off
the bench fifteen points all in the second half. He
had eight of their ten points in a huge ten
oh burst in the third quarter. Hit excuse me, three
threes for straw Ther. He's a young kid out of
(10:55):
Gonzaga who could shoot it. He just they're just really
reluctant to play young guys, and in a series like this,
obviously that's tough. But the third quarter was huge, Denver dominated,
and then came the fourth and you're like, can they
hold him off? Can they hold him off? And they did. However,
Aaron Gordon appeared to pull his hamstring in the final
like two minutes he reached for it. It's obviously not
(11:16):
Steph Curry. Baddy didn't ask to come out of the game.
But they get an extra day. This is a crazy stat.
The Denver Nuggets have played every other day since April
twenty ninth. That's over two weeks of high level playoff basketball.
And you know, playoff ain't the regular season. And not
only that, this is a team that fired its coach
(11:38):
right before the playoffs. They have no GM. They really
don't have much of a bench at home. Strather showed out. Okay,
they needed seven to take out the Clippers. Now they
just pushed the sixty eight win thunder who everybody thinks
is the best team, who is the favorite, They pushed
them to seven. I mean, this is pretty incredible stuff.
(11:59):
I think it's been tremendous drama. Other than that Game
two blowout, the Nuggets stole Game one, and Game two
they rolled over. Game one, Nuggets won by two. Game three,
Nuggets won in overtime by nine, Game four Thunder by
five on a on a really good comeback. Game five
Thunder by seven. They pulled, they came from behind in
the fourth, and then in Game six, Nuggets won by twelve,
(12:22):
but it felt closer than that until about five minutes left.
I'm just gonna say this has been the best series
of the postseason for sure. I just I'm just I
obviously were rooting Denver. No, no, I'm not gonna deny that.
I'm just gonna say that. This is how it went.
Jokic nine of fourteen, twenty nine to fourteen and eight,
Murray twenty five points. He was a plus twenty eight
(12:45):
which is insane for a guy who was sick. Right,
Christian Brown twenty three points, the best playoff game he's
ever played. He had twenty three and eleven. Okay for
Christian Brown, and then Julius Rather had the best game
of his NBA career. That's a lot of bests happening. Okay,
I don't know that they can duplicate that, and you
could say, well, they don't need to if we can
(13:06):
pivot fifteen of those points to yo kids. Yeah he
can get forty five. Sure, I mean yeah, okay, Sga
played good at thirty two. Interestingly, Jay Dubb, who you
wake up and you don't know if he's gonna show
out or just poop his pants. Three of sixteen couldn't
make a three. Now he gets to go home, and
you just wonder, you know, lou Dort did not duplicate
(13:29):
the performance he had, but he gets to go home.
Jay Dubb goes home. All you need is one of
those guys off the bench. Caruso, who's having a good
series case on Wallace. Weed's one of those guys. That's
all they have to do is play well at home,
and you get the strather and you probably get the win.
It's essentially the best player jokicch against the best team.
And I mean I'm saying that because Jason Tatum has
(13:50):
gone you know, okay, see the best team left again.
It's about matchups. Though, if Aaron Gordon's fully healthy, you know,
I think the Nuggets will have a shot. I don't
know if he's gonna be fully healthy. Well, no, but
the extra day obviously is huge. This is the first
game I think, this is no, no, this is the
(14:12):
first Game seven. It might be for the Thunders since
the Game seven and twenty sixteen when Korean Clay took
down Russ and Kevin Durant in what was the final
game of the Kevin Durant era in Okay. See, that
was a memorable series. Game six. I still remember Game six.
We are packing to move to LA it's late May.
(14:35):
I refuse to pack the TVs and cut off cable
because I needed to watch the NBA playoffs. And you know,
the TV is balancing on top of like moving boxes.
The bed is on the ground, just a mattress, and
Klay Thompson just goes nuclear with one of the great
three point shooting performances ever, and the Warriors win and
(14:56):
survive and then win Game seven and get get to
the finals. Is a big one for OKC guys. There's
a lot hinging on this for the Thunder. Remember Timberwolves
had a great year last year, get blasted in the
conference finals, and they decide we're moving off Kat. Let's
get to Julius Randall. If the Thunder lose this, I mean,
(15:18):
I think you can ratchet up any Giannis talk because
this would be a disappointment. You don't win sixty eight
games and lose in the second round with home court advantage,
that would be bad. You can rat I think everybody's
in play for Yiannis outside of SGA, right, I mean,
I'm moving off j dubbin chet if you want to
both take them, give me honest. I can fill role
players around SGA and Yannis. You know Kevin Durant. I
(15:39):
think that would be spicy. I'm seeing as the reports
on Miami Heat are gonna make a play for KD.
I don't get that, but going east to Smart ultimately
should get good action. I have zero dollars on tonight's
Nick Celtics game. I am extremely nervous. My son wants
to play pick a ball. I said, m I think
I gotta watch this game. This is a big one
for the Knicks. I am nervous. I think the Knicks
(16:03):
get it. I'm not betting it. Maybe a live bet
if the Knicks go down early, because I do think
they will show up and get the win at home.
But I'm too nervous to bet it because I'm a
Knicks fan. All Right, without further ado, let's get to
our guest, mister Ben Pickman of the athletic.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
the nation. Catch all of our shows at foxsports Radio
dot com and within the iHeartRadio app search FSR to
listen live. You know, Jason likes to think he knows
everything when it comes to sports.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
I know what sports fans want.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
But for everything he doesn't, he knows a guy who does.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
Let's just say I know a guy who knows the
guy who knows another guy.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
All right, let's welcome into straight Fire, a first time
guest on the podcast. And we've never done this before,
but guys, last year, when kaitlb actually two years ago,
and Kaitlyn start to blow up, we did some podcasts
on her and the numbers were big, and then last
year we brought on some guests to talk Katel Clark
and the numbers were big. So we're gonna go back
to the well katelen Clark in. The WNBA season begins Saturday,
(17:12):
so we're having Ben Pickman on from the Athletic to
talk about obviously the WNBA at large, but mostly katelen Clark. Ben,
how you doing man.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
I'm doing well.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Thanks lot for having me. Yeah, Dad, thanks for coming on.
I'm just curious from your point of view. You know,
you've been a journalist for several years now and you've
covered a lot of sports. I am just curious if
you've seen an uptick in whether it's invites to come
on podcasts, your articles getting more clicks, Indiana Fever demand, Like,
just tell me what's going on at the ground level there.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
Yeah, all of the above is the answer to your
question there, Jason. I mean, yeah, I think you know,
as we have seen with TV ratings skyrocketing, Like I'm
not going to say I have proportionately received millions of
more requests. I think that's a little bit of an
exaggeration there, but yeah, I mean I think there's a
lot more interest in terms of readership, listenership of our podcast,
people just in casual conversations among friends, among peers, among
(18:05):
family members, just people taking a lot more interest in
the WNBA and women's college basketball. And this year, certainly,
I think is the most you know, it seems like
the most anticipated season after last year, which was the
most anticipated anticipated season then. So everything continues to really
build on each other and it's definitely an exciting time
to kind of be covering the sport and you know,
(18:26):
a very important moment in the sports history as well.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Yeah, I am just curious, like historically when you have
been around the league, and I mean there was a buzz.
Obviously the lead's been around for twenty some odd years,
whatever it is, but it feels like, as you said,
in the last year or two, things have gone to
the stratosphere. I mean, is it the stage where you're
like mapping out your season, where you're going to be traveling.
I mean, are you with the fever all the time?
(18:50):
Is there that appetite to just kind of play the
hits and give the beast what it wants to eat,
which is a lot of Caitler Clark.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
Yeah, I mean, I'm New York based personally, so I'm
actually around the Liberty on a pretty daily basis cover
the league nationally, but I'm around the Liberty all the time.
I will now coming this weekend, I'll be at the
Fever's home opener though, and was out there during training
camp two and so, you know, I think have some.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
More trips planned along the way.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
So it's certainly a lot of Fever and a lot
of you know, seeing, monitoring obviously where they are, and
we obviously do a ton of Fever coverage too. But yeah,
I mean, the appetite really has grown, and it is
pretty crazy to just kind of reflect on even two, three,
four years ago where this league was compared to where
it is now.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Yeah, I saw in your Thunder preseason wrap up piece
it was like almost breaking down the last roster spot.
And I mean, I bet, I'm gonna be honest with you,
I couldn't have named twenty players in the WNBA like
five years ago, and I'm gonna guess that's the situation
at large with sports fans. But now it's like, oh,
Fever did a lot of stuff in the off season,
only five starters are back. Are you sensing when you
(19:57):
write a piece instantly it's like, oh my gosh, look
at the no are you tracking how they're doing?
Speaker 3 (20:02):
Yeah, I mean in terms of metrics are saying or
in terms of just the roster spots metrics mostly yeah,
I mean we get access to some of that data.
And there's certainly an appetite for Indiana fever coverage. I
would say again generally like there is increased appetite on
every team. And the one thing I will say more
than anything else to your kind of starting a question,
(20:23):
it is in the off season where we really saw
a shift. I would say where, you know, in January
free agency was a huge you know time, that's when
WNBA freegency is mid January to early February. Huge buzz there,
like we have never really seen before people caring about
transactions and trades and rumors. This past off season there
was a record numbering of firings in the WNBA, and
(20:45):
so people were really interested from a coaching hirings and
firings carousel standpoint about like why is this happening, Who's
getting hired, who's interviewing with whom? Like, people really do
are invested in all of that kind of stuff in
a way that we have seen traditionally with men's sports,
but in a way that the WNBA has has lagged behind.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Yeah. Now, we had Cindy Brunson on the pod last year,
I think, yeah, last year to talk about kind of
the Calet Clark impact, and she was pretty blunt in
like listen, Jay, there's a lot of players who are
kind of annoyed that the media only cares about Caitlin Clark.
There's been a lot of great players in the league.
There's a ton of them now, and all anybody wants
to talk about is Clark. Are you also sensing that
(21:25):
or was that like a last year story This year
it's not as much of a big deal.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
Yeah. I don't really think it is a big storyliner,
a big talking point among players this year, And honestly,
I don't really think that narrative even carried through throughout
the end of last year. I think, you know, once
the games really got going and you saw just how
prolific a player she was, and you know, she's a
player who made first team All WNBA as a rookie.
You know, setting you know, assist records, point records like
(21:53):
rewriting the Rookie record book, and even some kind of
broader record books, like you kind of have to do
you couldn't do anything but kind of tip your right
kind of as a competitor, and so, you know, I
think that's kind of the state of play entering this year.
Indiana again has made a ton of moves to put
themselves right into the finals championship conversation, adding a number
of veterans and so like, they're one of the teams
(22:15):
that has a lot of expectations, and they're covered and
talked about, you know, in this quartet of four the
way other title contenders across other sports are is there.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
I saw your pick for the championship. Now listen, I am.
I'm just sometimes I'll just do gambling for fun. And
you know, last year I bet the Indiana Fever to
win the title and Caitlin Clark to win the MVP.
Obviously long shots didn't happen, but I decided I'll do
it again this year. The odds have struck considerably. But
I saw you picked Liberty over the Aces. First of all,
(22:45):
why do you think Indiana is not quite there yet?
Obviously it's only year two for Clark, But also why
the Liberty over the Aces?
Speaker 3 (22:52):
Yeah, I mean to your Indiana question first, and you
know this from covering other sports and thinking about all
different kinds of sports, not just professional basketball. So often
a team has to go through learning, experience and build
that kind of postseason scar tissue up together first before
they get over the hump. I mean, we just saw that,
you know, on Tuesday night in the NBA with the
Cleveland Cavaliers, right a sixty four win team who number
(23:13):
one seed goes out in the second round the way
they did. The Indiana Fever have just five returning players,
just five from last year. And while three of those
players are all stars in Kelsey Mitchell, Leah Boston, and
Caitlyn Clark, the rest of the roster again a lot
of new pieces. A head coach who you know had
previously been the head coach of the Fever and had
had a lot of success in Connecticut named Stephanie White,
(23:35):
an experience head coach, but again first year head coach
coming into coach this new team that again full of
new players. So I just think it will take a
little bit of time for this team to gel together.
And there's just a lot of questions. There's a lot
of questions about rotations, minutes, roles, a lot to get
(23:56):
sorted out, and it just seems like a big leap. Again,
the Indiana Fever, they haven't had a winning record since
twenty fifteen. They haven't gotten out of the second round
of the playoffs since then. So sure, they have Caitlin Clark,
who's obviously a headliner, and they have a talented roster
behind them, but you know, it's a pretty big jump
to go from first round out to WNBA champion.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
Yeah, that is a quantum leap. Let me ask you
about White. So you know, in the NBA it's a
players league where a lot of times they get have
a say in the coach I'm just curious in your reporting,
do you did you come across anything that said, you know,
the Fever kind of ran this by Caitlin Clark to
see what she thought. I'm sure nobody would ever come
out and say that openly, but you know, you gotta
(24:39):
face with the franchise face of the league. I'm just curious.
Do you get any input or insight into how this
coaching search went down?
Speaker 3 (24:47):
Sure? I mean what I would say is the Indiana
Fever have a new team president this year, and it
starts her name is Kelly Crosskoff, and she has kind
of been with Pacer Sports and Entertainment, the parent company
of The Fever, for more than in the last two decades.
She was actually the very first employee ever hired to
run the Pacer or to run the Fever, back in
nineteen ninety nine, and so she was their kind of
(25:09):
initial president basketball decision maker. And she left in the
mid twenty ten to actually be the Indiana Pacers assistant GM.
She returned this past year to again be the Fever
team president, and so she hires Stephanie White, who she
has known forever. Stephanie White was a player for the
Indiana Fever, actually one of the very first players that
Kelly Crosscoff picked in the two thousand WNBA Expansion Draft.
(25:32):
She is a former Miss Indiana you know basketball in
high school. She went to Purdue won a national championship there.
So they have really known each other for more than
two decades and have built this closeness. Steph White was
an assistant coach when Indiana the Fever won the WNBA
championship in twenty twelve. She was then you know, the
head coach when they were runner up in twenty fifteen.
(25:54):
So there is a lot of continuity there, and there's
a lot of connectedness there, and so you know, and
I have some a feature coming out later this week
that gets into it, like when Kelly crosscoff is deciding
on who to picks as their next head coach, Like
Stephanie White is a logical choice here because not only
is she an accomplished coach and a great basketball mind,
(26:16):
but also like they are very close in terms of
personal relationships. They speak the same kind of language, they
know how each other communicates, like in an organization with
some questions about roster. As I said, like relationship between
front office and coach is not one of the questions
that the Indiana Fever have this year.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
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Speaker 2 (26:48):
It doesn't sound like that Clark was involved in this
process at all. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
I mean, what I know about Clark's kind of involvement
big picture, is that she has been involved. She's been
president in Indiana throughout the off season, and she has
definitely been involved in you know, uh, free and she
recruiting process, you know, talking her perspective free agents. She's
involved in little things like what food, uh, you know,
(27:12):
do you want on the road, that kind of thing.
Her involvement is definitely high in the franchise. But I
think this was really a it starts with Kelly Crosscoff,
is what I would say about how you know, some
of these decisions were made.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
So last year, the Fever kind of got a Rod
deal right right after the draft, the season started. Kaitlin
Clark had just played a long college. It was tough,
and then they started out. They struggled out of the gate,
but they found their footing and you know, ultimately had
had a positive season. I'm just curious, do you think,
based on their schedule that the league was like, you
know what, we got to schedule more of these primetime
(27:45):
TV games for Clark and also, by the way, let's
not wear her down, you know, we kind of need
Kitlin Clark in the playoffs.
Speaker 3 (27:51):
Do I think they scheduled more primetime games for Kaitlin
Clark this year than last year?
Speaker 2 (27:56):
I mean absolutely.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
I mean the data shows that they're on national television
and you know, and that includes something on you know,
NBA TV and other platforms like that. I think forty
one of their forty four games this year, that's the
most of any team in the league. So certainly, you know,
the league has made made its intentions very clear, and
you know networks have said, like we want those games
because you look at the ratings of those games and
(28:19):
the ratings are historically good. I mean, they played in
a preseason game this year against Brazil. It was on
May fourth, Caitlin Clark and the Fever return to the
University of Iowa. It averaged I think one point three
million viewers. Again, this a preseason game against the Brazilian
national team. ESPN said, I think since twenty ten, of
their like fifty seven preseason games in the NBA, only
(28:42):
two have gotten a better rate than that WNBA game,
and both of those involved Lebron and I think it
was like Lebron's return to Cleveland and you know calvs.
Warriors one year, Like that's what we're talking about in
terms of a preseason rating. So we'll see what the
regular season then brings.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
So do you think as a result, and again I'm
not trying to stir up like an issue, but like
do other teams and players around the league be like,
you know, we got the MVP with the defended chis,
why are we not on TV that much? Or are
you of the impression that hey, people get it. Hey,
Caitlin Clark right now is the bread winner for the league.
Let's let's let's ride that out. No.
Speaker 3 (29:19):
I think there's an understanding. I mean, New York and
Las Vegas aren't that far behind in terms of national
TV rights windows, and I think there's an understanding that
like Caitlin Clark in the Indiana Fever are certainly accelerants
and very important to ratings, merchandise awareness. And we've seen
a lot of teams, you know, benefit in their ticket
sales when they play the Indiana Fever. So I think
(29:42):
there's a recognition of, you know, the Clark effect in
the w Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
My my wife and daughter as soon as the schedule
came out, were like, so, when is Kitlin Clark coming
to play the Sparks? Can we get tickets? We've got
it circled. I'm trying to make it happen. They're pricey.
But let me ask about the season opener against Angel
Reason Company. Now, Angel Reese has had a bit of
an offseason where she was like talking about a potential
holdout because they need to get paid more. I'm just curious,
(30:08):
where are the where's Chicago in the hierarchy heading into
the season and your thoughts on Angel Reese as a player.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
Sure, I mean I would first also clarify, like there's
an ongoing CBA negotiation right now and kind of Reese's
comments on her podcast regarding that where that like the
players have.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
Said that.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
You know, they they want to accept a deal that
is is right for them. They're not just, uh, they're
not avoiding, they're not hoping for a work stoppage, but
they're saying like we are going to negotiate to kind
of get the deal that we want, and we won't
have more clarity there until the fall. So that's just
one point of clarity there. In terms of the Chicago
skuy and Angel Rees, I mean, they have a first
year head coach and Tyler Marsh who has a long
(30:49):
player development background both with the Las Vegas Aces where
he was an assistant coach and also has some NBA
and NBA G League ties. They have overhauled some of
their roster and one of the things that kind of
we would expect this year is she's going to play
a little bit more on the perimeter and just as
it means to kind of play in space. Tyler Marsh
again came from the Aces where he coached Asia Wilson.
(31:09):
If you watch her, she does a lot kind of
at the high post, at the elbow and the sky.
Have two bigs. Camilla Cardoso was you know, their number
three pick in the twenty twenty four WM draft. She
was a start South Carolina, and so I would kind
of expect a lot of high low, big, big action
and a lot of action to try and you know,
get Angel going downhill and potentially kicking out to teammates.
So that's one thing to be aware of. Chicago also
(31:30):
signed Courtney Vanderslut, who is one of the all time,
you know, greatest passers in WNB history. She'd been with
the franchise for more than a decade, then went to
the New York Liberty for two years. These last two years,
Vandersuit still, you know, even though she's in her mid thirties,
a very willing and a great passer, and so Reese
kind of has a true point guard to help set
(31:51):
her up and facilitate and that should pay a bunch
of dividends as well.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
Let me go back to a point you were talking
about about the CBA. We see a new team and
expansion team, Golden State in the WNBA. How are we
supposed to read that? Obviously, this has been in the
works for years, but the expansion the league kind of
popping in the last couple of years, the interest in
the draft, like you said, the offseason. Are you of
(32:16):
the sense that the league this is just the beginning
of ANBA expansion and there's more down the pike.
Speaker 3 (32:22):
Yeah, and that's already been confirmed with at least two teams.
So this year the WNBA is expanding to thirteen teams.
They're adding the Golden State Valkyries, as you said, first
expansion team since two thousand and eight. Next year there'll
be two more expansion teams in the WNBA. Portland and
Toronto are already announced. It will be the Toronto Tempo.
They've actually already hired a general manager who is a
former player in front office exec. And then there's a
(32:45):
question about when they will announce a sixteenth team. The
league has said that they hope to do so by
at least twenty twenty eight and we have seen already
with that sixteen team, and we'll see if it's sixteen
or you know, because of interest, they go even higher.
You know, there was a deadline this last January for
perspective groups to submit bids. More than ten groups ended
up submitting bids, and a lot of those bidders have
(33:07):
you know NBA ties, So the ownership group of the
Philadelphia seventy six ers, Dan Gilbert, the owner of the Calves,
Tom Gores, Detroit Pistons, like you know, there were some
independent groups who definitely are trying to bid and get
into the league. But we have continued to see or
we have seen an uptick in NBA owners can wanting
to be part of the next round of expansion. And
(33:28):
the Valkyries we should say owned by Joe Lake and
Peter Guber, who are the owners and chairman of the Warriors.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
So I guess we could wrap up. You know, when
when the well, the NBA expanded in the late eighties
early nineties, we saw, you know, there's a lot of
complaints about, oh it's a little water down, there's just
not enough good players. But that was way back in
now was well thirty years ago for almost forty years ago.
I haven't looked at the Golden State Valkyrie's roster. But
(33:57):
are you of the sense that, like, hey man, there's
room for a lot more good players in this league?
Expansion is a great thing or is this do you
think maybe gonna water down things a little?
Speaker 1 (34:06):
No.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
I think expansion is definitely a good thing, and the
business seems like it can support it. And I do
think there's enough roster talent. I mean, right now we
have a very high concentrated there's a very high concentration
of talent across the league. I mean, so many of
these teams have two or three stars. And I think
as a whole, the whole WNBA, you know, I would
say nine or ten teams got better this offseason, and
(34:27):
inevitably not all those teams are even gonna make the
playoffs just because of how competitive the league is. And
so the other thing that you see, and as we
tape this, like it's roster cut week, cut down week,
and so there's a lot of players who have been
pretty successful in college who will not make teams and
WNBA teams, you know, many of these teams are only
going to roster eleven players.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
To start the year.
Speaker 3 (34:49):
And so it's pretty much the hardest league to make
in the world because of just how tight it is,
how few roster spots there are. You know, again thirteen
teams and most teams taken around eleven players because of
salary cap reasons. And so like you expand you had
another team this year, two more next year. You know,
that's twelve and then thirty six more players who are
getting opportunities that would not otherwise. And so, yeah, I
(35:12):
think we're gonna see a little bit more dispersal of talent,
and that's natural in the case of any expansion draft
and as the league expands. But yeah, there is talent
and certainly gives players an opportunity to develop, you know,
just by getting reps in a WNBA context in a
way that they wouldn't if they were not making these rosters.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
I wonder, Ben, if that'll be part of the new CBA. Hey,
we need to expand rosters. I mean, eleven is not
a lot of people on a roster. You get three
injuries all of a sudden, you know, it's a foul
trouble in the game. It's dicey. Want do you think
that'll be part of the new CBA.
Speaker 3 (35:42):
Yeah, I mean we'll see, because again, as you expand rosters,
there's some you know, kind of contractual effects that take hold.
I mean, I think it has long been a clamoring
that fans and even some execs have about like roster
size versus expansion is always kind of a debate that
kind of comes up what is kind of better for
(36:02):
the league at a certain period of time. There isn't
a you know, WNBA developmental league in the season right
in the US, the same way that there is in
the NBA, So you know, the kind of existence of
you know, in the NBA, again you have two way
contracts here in the W Like a player doesn't make
a team, they get cut, how are they working on
their game to then the best position to succeed when
(36:23):
they get back in the W NBA, Like, that's always
a question that kind of people have. You you have
to train on your own, you know, there are alternatives.
We see Obviously a lot of players historically play in
professional leagues overseas in the winter, but again that doesn't
help them continue to develop during the summer. So yeah,
I mean it's definitely a big question about what's the
(36:44):
right number here again, twelve is the max that you
can have on a roster, but because of cap reasons, yeah,
a lot of teams really only carry eleven. So it
is certainly a big topic of conversation going forward.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
All right, Ben Pickman, the athletic, great stuff, Hey Man.
Enjoy the w NBA season. Well, I'm sure we'll be
reading a lot of your stuff obviously the big debut
on Saturday. And talk to you soon, buddy. Thanks a
lot for having me
This is straight Fire with Jason McIntyre.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
What is up? Straight fire fight? It's me Jason McIntyre.
Straight Fire for Friday, May this sixteenth. Oh boyd, did
we have a good one today? Oh baby, you're gonna
love this. So not only do we get Denver forcing
a game seven, thank goodness, and we've got NBA action
(00:31):
on Sunday that matters. Denver okase game seven Sunday at
twelve thirty pm Pacific, So I guess through thirty Eastern
we talk about that game. But also, folks, this sneakily
is right this weekend. Are you ready the WNBA season starts?
And yes, we are actually previewing the WNBA season, although
(00:53):
you know, technically it's not the WNBA. We're more previewing
Caitlin Clark and the Indiana Fever. They tip off tomorrow
against Angel Reese in Chicago. It's almost as if the
WNBA is paying attention, saying, oh guys, hey, hey, we
got a load up on primetime matchups, big time games,
get them on TV, and it should be a good
(01:15):
one Saturday. So Ben Pickman will be joining us. He
covers the WNBA for The Athletic. Also covers women's college basketball,
but we mostly focus on Caitlin Clark and the thing
I love. And again, I don't know how much the audience,
i e. You guys care about this, but you know
everybody loves to talk about ratings. People love to talk
about ratings for the NBA, NFL, baseball, blah blah blah.
(01:39):
So if you listen into the interview, Ben says, in
the off season they were doing they were writing about
coaching changes and player movement, and it was setting every
record in the book at the athletic people actually cared
about the WNBA off season. Folks. That's the first time
I ever paid any attention to the WNBA off season.
(01:59):
I mean the fever. They only have five players back
from last year, totally new team, rebuilt around Caitlin Clark.
I'm excited. I'm not gonna lie now. Obviously, this is
a busy weekend after Mother's Day weekend. You know that
last weekend was for the moms. Now we kind of
get back to running around, chasing kids and doing all
that fun stuff. Your boy may be playing basketball three
(02:21):
days in a row. I don't know if the body
will hold up. I'm starting to wear down. I need
to go back on CREA team. You know, it's just like, oh, man,
bodies really her shoulder me nothing major, but yeah. So
I'm hoping to get in a lot of hoops this
weekend and then it will pivot to volleyball as the
weather warms up. Out of here anyways, So I do
want to talk about the NFL story, but we're not
(02:42):
gonna do it today. And that's the Caleb Williams didn't
want to go to Chicago. I'm sure you guys saw it.
It's in a book by Seth Wickersham. Now I've known
Seth Wickersham probably for fifteen years, dating way back to
the Big Lead. So as soon as the story came
out I read it, I was like, oh boy, this
is big, Seth, you gotta come on the pod next week.
So next week I have Seth wickershamon to talk about
Kayleb Williams trying to dodge the Bears. But it goes
(03:04):
to a larger picture really, And you know, when you
come out of college, if you're coming out of a
good school and you're at the top of your class
and you have good internships, you get to go wherever
you want. You get to go to the best. Okay,
in the NFL, you've got to go to the worst,
which usually is not just the worst team, but the
(03:25):
worst organization, the worst owner. Usually that's how it works.
And in this story, Kayleb Williams's dad is like, this
is so screwed up. It's messed up. Basically, he not
only has to go to the worst team. And the
Bears have never done quarterback right in their history. I'm
fairly certain they've never had a passer or throw for
four thousand yards. They've just never figured out quarterback. Now
(03:47):
it could be partially that they play in Chicago, but whatever,
here's the weird part. Once you're drafted, you're essentially locked
into them for at least seven years, possibly eight given
the franchise tag. And people don't think of it like that,
but think about this. If you come out and you're
twenty one, twenty two, and you're locked in for seven
(04:09):
eight years, it's like they got you for your pretty
much your prime. Now players are starting to play deeper
into their forties or sorry, thirties. Only one guy went
in his forties, and maybe there's a world where, hey,
these players are going to play better like Steph Curry
in the NBA, Lebron, these guys should not be putting
up the numbers and doing what they're doing. Now. Tom
(04:31):
Brady playing until you know, he's fifty eight years old.
Just kidding now, Aaron Rodgers of course is old, but
he had the Achilles not the same. Bottom line is
like it is kind of messed up that not only
do you get drafted there, but you're kind of pigeonholed
for a while. And what's interesting is this is why
Lebron left the Calves the first time, and all these
(04:53):
losers going after Lebron for leaving the Calves. They couldn't
build around him. Why should he stay because they because
they just happened to win a lottery and draft him.
Like I do find it stupid and I kind of
sort of side with Caleb Williams of his family. Now
I know the counter as well, Hey, what are you
gonna do it for a small market. You're never gonna
(05:14):
get a good player, Okay, I mean there are some
examples of teams not with the star quarterback finding the
right pieces elsewhere and making it happen and making deep
playoff runs like it can happen. You just gotta work
really really hard and have some of these dopey owners
get out of the way. So I think it's a
larger story. I love to talk about that stuff. You
guys know way into building teams, and I guess at
(05:36):
this juncture I should mention. Yes, Nakoxas suffered an absolutely
brutal loss in the LEGA MX quarterfinals. I literally couldn't
talk about it for a couple of days because I
was so angry, and behind the scenes there's a lot
of stuff happening. So we're it's basically it's a two.
(05:57):
It's a home and home and whoever out on top advances.
But if you're tied, it just goes to the higher seed,
which I think is goofy And we were the five.
We were playing the four anyways, first game tied zero zero.
We go to their place and it's zero zero and half.
They score the first goal. We're down one nothing. So
(06:17):
at this point it feels over. We need to get
two goals in the final, like forty minutes, I'm like,
there's no chance. I mean, they basically have a really
good back five. Well, we get an incredible goal. Our
horse Jose Paradella aka Patadona. Yes, He's Argentinian, so at
one point in his young career they thought, like, I
see some Diego Maradona. Anyways, this guy was extraordinary this year,
(06:39):
one of the best ten to fifteen players in the league.
And he gets an awesome assist and we tie it up. Okay,
and then with like I don't know, eight minutes left,
ten minutes left, we bring on our sub our big guy.
Interesting subplot. So when we went to Seattle to see
Nikoxa last summer, they picked you know, they sent the
GM come to pick us up and someone else and whatever,
(07:03):
and you know, we're talking to them and they're like,
oh yeah. I was like, what's the story with Battaloney?
He just signed and they're like, he's he just flew
in last night. He just joined the team. If you
had flown in earlier, like you would have been in
the car with him on the on the way to
the team hotel. And I was so excited. I was like,
(07:23):
oh wow, we got this guy, you know, young guy.
He gets an amazing header goal and somehow we take
a two to one league with like seven minutes left.
At this point, you know, it's Mother's Day. The wife's like, hey,
let's play this new game this you know, it's like
a card game called Spoons. I'm sure you guys have
heard of it. So we're playing Spoons and I have
never played, and I win the first round. But there's
(07:43):
like ten minutes left to go in the NACOXA game,
so I'm tapped out on Spoons and I lose, and
I'm like, oh darn, I lost, you know whatever, and
we just basically have to hold off for extra time
and we win. Now we're in their place, and obviously
it's a scene and we're holding them off for holding
them off, and they have this free kick from like
fifty yards out and they headed in and there's chaos
(08:04):
in the box, shoving, kicking, all this chaos, and after
like six seconds of just ball bouncing around, it somehow
goes in. Initially ruled a goal, and then about a
minute later the ref is like, wait, you know, the
a linesman has flag up. The line'sman called a foul
because this guy who attempted a kick ended up kicking
our goalie. Called a foul, So they disregard the goal
(08:26):
and I'm like yes, However, the stadium's going crazy, and
at this point you could tell the referees like, Okay,
I'm gonna go look at the var And I was
texting a bunch of people about this, and I'm like,
you know, there's just no way on planet Earth that
this referee we'll get out of Monterey, Mexico alive if
(08:47):
he does not award these guys the goal. You could
just see the It was tense, and there really isn't
a comparable situation to like the NBA or NFL. Obviously, yeah,
it's hot style environments in college and NFL and NBA,
but you know, no, people aren't attacking referees in these
(09:08):
leagues after the game. Now, they haven't done that in Mexico,
but listen, this ain't the USA anyway. So they look
at the var. You can see they're reviewing where the
guy kicks the goalie literally kicks our goalie and the
goalie is down. Then the goalie almost gets the ball,
doesn't blah blah blah, And of course they come out
and say goal in the stadium like loses its mind.
Everybody and our guys were irate. And I'm not going
(09:31):
to get into what happened in the days following. If
you want to go read it about it online. You can.
It was devastating, a major gut punch, and now we
had under the off we should be in the semi finals.
We had under the off season. But I will say
this is so exciting being part of a ownership group.
And again we're a very small minority owner. But you know,
(09:52):
I'm committed. I love sports. So I'm texting the GM,
one of the other owner, I like all the time,
what do you think about this guy? Like, I'm way
into it. I'm reading and obviously a lot of the
stuff covering our team is on websites that are only
in Spanish, and so I've got to Google translate all
of them, you know, and it's like, I just I
love this stuff. Anyways, it was a tough week, but overall,
(10:12):
good Listen, it's the deepest run we've had since we
took got in the ownership group. And now there's like,
all right, how do we go next level here? And
it's gonna be a fun offseason. Anyways, let me quickly
just talk about Nuggets one nineteen OKC one oh seven.
This was the not the Nicola Jokic game, not the
Jamal Murray game, not the Christian Brown game. He was
(10:34):
very good, career best twenty three playoff points. It was
the Julian Strather game. Who the kid from Goozaga off
the bench fifteen points all in the second half. He
had eight of their ten points in a huge ten
oh burst in the third quarter. Hit excuse me, three
threes for straw Ther. He's a young kid out of
(10:55):
Gonzaga who could shoot it. He just they're just really
reluctant to play young guys, and in a series like this,
obviously that's tough. But the third quarter was huge, Denver dominated,
and then came the fourth and you're like, can they
hold him off? Can they hold him off? And they did. However,
Aaron Gordon appeared to pull his hamstring in the final
like two minutes he reached for it. It's obviously not
(11:16):
Steph Curry. Baddy didn't ask to come out of the game.
But they get an extra day. This is a crazy stat.
The Denver Nuggets have played every other day since April
twenty ninth. That's over two weeks of high level playoff basketball.
And you know, playoff ain't the regular season. And not
only that, this is a team that fired its coach
(11:38):
right before the playoffs. They have no GM. They really
don't have much of a bench at home. Strather showed out. Okay,
they needed seven to take out the Clippers. Now they
just pushed the sixty eight win thunder who everybody thinks
is the best team, who is the favorite, They pushed
them to seven. I mean, this is pretty incredible stuff.
(11:59):
I think it's been tremendous drama. Other than that Game
two blowout, the Nuggets stole Game one, and Game two
they rolled over. Game one, Nuggets won by two. Game three,
Nuggets won in overtime by nine, Game four Thunder by
five on a on a really good comeback. Game five
Thunder by seven. They pulled, they came from behind in
the fourth, and then in Game six, Nuggets won by twelve,
(12:22):
but it felt closer than that until about five minutes left.
I'm just gonna say this has been the best series
of the postseason for sure. I just I'm just I
obviously were rooting Denver. No, no, I'm not gonna deny that.
I'm just gonna say that. This is how it went.
Jokic nine of fourteen, twenty nine to fourteen and eight,
Murray twenty five points. He was a plus twenty eight
(12:45):
which is insane for a guy who was sick. Right,
Christian Brown twenty three points, the best playoff game he's
ever played. He had twenty three and eleven. Okay for
Christian Brown, and then Julius Rather had the best game
of his NBA career. That's a lot of bests happening. Okay,
I don't know that they can duplicate that, and you
could say, well, they don't need to if we can
(13:06):
pivot fifteen of those points to yo kids. Yeah he
can get forty five. Sure, I mean yeah, okay, Sga
played good at thirty two. Interestingly, Jay Dubb, who you
wake up and you don't know if he's gonna show
out or just poop his pants. Three of sixteen couldn't
make a three. Now he gets to go home, and
you just wonder, you know, lou Dort did not duplicate
(13:29):
the performance he had, but he gets to go home.
Jay Dubb goes home. All you need is one of
those guys off the bench. Caruso, who's having a good
series case on Wallace. Weed's one of those guys. That's
all they have to do is play well at home,
and you get the strather and you probably get the win.
It's essentially the best player jokicch against the best team.
And I mean I'm saying that because Jason Tatum has
(13:50):
gone you know, okay, see the best team left again.
It's about matchups. Though, if Aaron Gordon's fully healthy, you know,
I think the Nuggets will have a shot. I don't
know if he's gonna be fully healthy. Well, no, but
the extra day obviously is huge. This is the first
game I think, this is no, no, this is the
(14:12):
first Game seven. It might be for the Thunders since
the Game seven and twenty sixteen when Korean Clay took
down Russ and Kevin Durant in what was the final
game of the Kevin Durant era in Okay. See, that
was a memorable series. Game six. I still remember Game six.
We are packing to move to LA it's late May.
(14:35):
I refuse to pack the TVs and cut off cable
because I needed to watch the NBA playoffs. And you know,
the TV is balancing on top of like moving boxes.
The bed is on the ground, just a mattress, and
Klay Thompson just goes nuclear with one of the great
three point shooting performances ever, and the Warriors win and
(14:56):
survive and then win Game seven and get get to
the finals. Is a big one for OKC guys. There's
a lot hinging on this for the Thunder. Remember Timberwolves
had a great year last year, get blasted in the
conference finals, and they decide we're moving off Kat. Let's
get to Julius Randall. If the Thunder lose this, I mean,
(15:18):
I think you can ratchet up any Giannis talk because
this would be a disappointment. You don't win sixty eight
games and lose in the second round with home court advantage,
that would be bad. You can rat I think everybody's
in play for Yiannis outside of SGA, right, I mean,
I'm moving off j dubbin chet if you want to
both take them, give me honest. I can fill role
players around SGA and Yannis. You know Kevin Durant. I
(15:39):
think that would be spicy. I'm seeing as the reports
on Miami Heat are gonna make a play for KD.
I don't get that, but going east to Smart ultimately
should get good action. I have zero dollars on tonight's
Nick Celtics game. I am extremely nervous. My son wants
to play pick a ball. I said, m I think
I gotta watch this game. This is a big one
for the Knicks. I am nervous. I think the Knicks
(16:03):
get it. I'm not betting it. Maybe a live bet
if the Knicks go down early, because I do think
they will show up and get the win at home.
But I'm too nervous to bet it because I'm a
Knicks fan. All Right, without further ado, let's get to
our guest, mister Ben Pickman of the athletic.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
the nation. Catch all of our shows at foxsports Radio
dot com and within the iHeartRadio app search FSR to
listen live. You know, Jason likes to think he knows
everything when it comes to sports.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
I know what sports fans want.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
But for everything he doesn't, he knows a guy who does.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
Let's just say I know a guy who knows the
guy who knows another guy.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
All right, let's welcome into straight Fire, a first time
guest on the podcast. And we've never done this before,
but guys, last year, when kaitlb actually two years ago,
and Kaitlyn start to blow up, we did some podcasts
on her and the numbers were big, and then last
year we brought on some guests to talk Katel Clark
and the numbers were big. So we're gonna go back
to the well katelen Clark in. The WNBA season begins Saturday,
(17:12):
so we're having Ben Pickman on from the Athletic to
talk about obviously the WNBA at large, but mostly katelen Clark. Ben,
how you doing man.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
I'm doing well.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Thanks lot for having me. Yeah, Dad, thanks for coming on.
I'm just curious from your point of view. You know,
you've been a journalist for several years now and you've
covered a lot of sports. I am just curious if
you've seen an uptick in whether it's invites to come
on podcasts, your articles getting more clicks, Indiana Fever demand, Like,
just tell me what's going on at the ground level there.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
Yeah, all of the above is the answer to your
question there, Jason. I mean, yeah, I think you know,
as we have seen with TV ratings skyrocketing, Like I'm
not going to say I have proportionately received millions of
more requests. I think that's a little bit of an
exaggeration there, but yeah, I mean I think there's a
lot more interest in terms of readership, listenership of our podcast,
people just in casual conversations among friends, among peers, among
(18:05):
family members, just people taking a lot more interest in
the WNBA and women's college basketball. And this year, certainly,
I think is the most you know, it seems like
the most anticipated season after last year, which was the
most anticipated anticipated season then. So everything continues to really
build on each other and it's definitely an exciting time
to kind of be covering the sport and you know,
(18:26):
a very important moment in the sports history as well.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Yeah, I am just curious, like historically when you have
been around the league, and I mean there was a buzz.
Obviously the lead's been around for twenty some odd years,
whatever it is, but it feels like, as you said,
in the last year or two, things have gone to
the stratosphere. I mean, is it the stage where you're
like mapping out your season, where you're going to be traveling.
I mean, are you with the fever all the time?
(18:50):
Is there that appetite to just kind of play the
hits and give the beast what it wants to eat,
which is a lot of Caitler Clark.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
Yeah, I mean, I'm New York based personally, so I'm
actually around the Liberty on a pretty daily basis cover
the league nationally, but I'm around the Liberty all the time.
I will now coming this weekend, I'll be at the
Fever's home opener though, and was out there during training
camp two and so, you know, I think have some.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
More trips planned along the way.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
So it's certainly a lot of Fever and a lot
of you know, seeing, monitoring obviously where they are, and
we obviously do a ton of Fever coverage too. But yeah,
I mean, the appetite really has grown, and it is
pretty crazy to just kind of reflect on even two, three,
four years ago where this league was compared to where
it is now.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Yeah, I saw in your Thunder preseason wrap up piece
it was like almost breaking down the last roster spot.
And I mean, I bet, I'm gonna be honest with you,
I couldn't have named twenty players in the WNBA like
five years ago, and I'm gonna guess that's the situation
at large with sports fans. But now it's like, oh,
Fever did a lot of stuff in the off season,
only five starters are back. Are you sensing when you
(19:57):
write a piece instantly it's like, oh my gosh, look
at the no are you tracking how they're doing?
Speaker 3 (20:02):
Yeah, I mean in terms of metrics are saying or
in terms of just the roster spots metrics mostly yeah,
I mean we get access to some of that data.
And there's certainly an appetite for Indiana fever coverage. I
would say again generally like there is increased appetite on
every team. And the one thing I will say more
than anything else to your kind of starting a question,
(20:23):
it is in the off season where we really saw
a shift. I would say where, you know, in January
free agency was a huge you know time, that's when
WNBA freegency is mid January to early February. Huge buzz there,
like we have never really seen before people caring about
transactions and trades and rumors. This past off season there
was a record numbering of firings in the WNBA, and
(20:45):
so people were really interested from a coaching hirings and
firings carousel standpoint about like why is this happening, Who's
getting hired, who's interviewing with whom? Like, people really do
are invested in all of that kind of stuff in
a way that we have seen traditionally with men's sports,
but in a way that the WNBA has has lagged behind.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Yeah. Now, we had Cindy Brunson on the pod last year,
I think, yeah, last year to talk about kind of
the Calet Clark impact, and she was pretty blunt in
like listen, Jay, there's a lot of players who are
kind of annoyed that the media only cares about Caitlin Clark.
There's been a lot of great players in the league.
There's a ton of them now, and all anybody wants
to talk about is Clark. Are you also sensing that
(21:25):
or was that like a last year story This year
it's not as much of a big deal.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
Yeah. I don't really think it is a big storyliner,
a big talking point among players this year, And honestly,
I don't really think that narrative even carried through throughout
the end of last year. I think, you know, once
the games really got going and you saw just how
prolific a player she was, and you know, she's a
player who made first team All WNBA as a rookie.
You know, setting you know, assist records, point records like
(21:53):
rewriting the Rookie record book, and even some kind of
broader record books, like you kind of have to do
you couldn't do anything but kind of tip your right
kind of as a competitor, and so, you know, I
think that's kind of the state of play entering this year.
Indiana again has made a ton of moves to put
themselves right into the finals championship conversation, adding a number
of veterans and so like, they're one of the teams
(22:15):
that has a lot of expectations, and they're covered and
talked about, you know, in this quartet of four the
way other title contenders across other sports are is there.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
I saw your pick for the championship. Now listen, I am.
I'm just sometimes I'll just do gambling for fun. And
you know, last year I bet the Indiana Fever to
win the title and Caitlin Clark to win the MVP.
Obviously long shots didn't happen, but I decided I'll do
it again this year. The odds have struck considerably. But
I saw you picked Liberty over the Aces. First of all,
(22:45):
why do you think Indiana is not quite there yet?
Obviously it's only year two for Clark, But also why
the Liberty over the Aces?
Speaker 3 (22:52):
Yeah, I mean to your Indiana question first, and you
know this from covering other sports and thinking about all
different kinds of sports, not just professional basketball. So often
a team has to go through learning, experience and build
that kind of postseason scar tissue up together first before
they get over the hump. I mean, we just saw that,
you know, on Tuesday night in the NBA with the
Cleveland Cavaliers, right a sixty four win team who number
(23:13):
one seed goes out in the second round the way
they did. The Indiana Fever have just five returning players,
just five from last year. And while three of those
players are all stars in Kelsey Mitchell, Leah Boston, and
Caitlyn Clark, the rest of the roster again a lot
of new pieces. A head coach who you know had
previously been the head coach of the Fever and had
had a lot of success in Connecticut named Stephanie White,
(23:35):
an experience head coach, but again first year head coach
coming into coach this new team that again full of
new players. So I just think it will take a
little bit of time for this team to gel together.
And there's just a lot of questions. There's a lot
of questions about rotations, minutes, roles, a lot to get
(23:56):
sorted out, and it just seems like a big leap. Again,
the Indiana Fever, they haven't had a winning record since
twenty fifteen. They haven't gotten out of the second round
of the playoffs since then. So sure, they have Caitlin Clark,
who's obviously a headliner, and they have a talented roster
behind them, but you know, it's a pretty big jump
to go from first round out to WNBA champion.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
Yeah, that is a quantum leap. Let me ask you
about White. So you know, in the NBA it's a
players league where a lot of times they get have
a say in the coach I'm just curious in your reporting,
do you did you come across anything that said, you know,
the Fever kind of ran this by Caitlin Clark to
see what she thought. I'm sure nobody would ever come
out and say that openly, but you know, you gotta
(24:39):
face with the franchise face of the league. I'm just curious.
Do you get any input or insight into how this
coaching search went down?
Speaker 3 (24:47):
Sure? I mean what I would say is the Indiana
Fever have a new team president this year, and it
starts her name is Kelly Crosskoff, and she has kind
of been with Pacer Sports and Entertainment, the parent company
of The Fever, for more than in the last two decades.
She was actually the very first employee ever hired to
run the Pacer or to run the Fever, back in
nineteen ninety nine, and so she was their kind of
(25:09):
initial president basketball decision maker. And she left in the
mid twenty ten to actually be the Indiana Pacers assistant GM.
She returned this past year to again be the Fever
team president, and so she hires Stephanie White, who she
has known forever. Stephanie White was a player for the
Indiana Fever, actually one of the very first players that
Kelly Crosscoff picked in the two thousand WNBA Expansion Draft.
(25:32):
She is a former Miss Indiana you know basketball in
high school. She went to Purdue won a national championship there.
So they have really known each other for more than
two decades and have built this closeness. Steph White was
an assistant coach when Indiana the Fever won the WNBA
championship in twenty twelve. She was then you know, the
head coach when they were runner up in twenty fifteen.
(25:54):
So there is a lot of continuity there, and there's
a lot of connectedness there, and so you know, and
I have some a feature coming out later this week
that gets into it, like when Kelly crosscoff is deciding
on who to picks as their next head coach, Like
Stephanie White is a logical choice here because not only
is she an accomplished coach and a great basketball mind,
(26:16):
but also like they are very close in terms of
personal relationships. They speak the same kind of language, they
know how each other communicates, like in an organization with
some questions about roster. As I said, like relationship between
front office and coach is not one of the questions
that the Indiana Fever have this year.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
the nation. Catch all of our shows at Foxsports Radio
dot com and within the iHeartRadio app search FSR to
listen live.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
It doesn't sound like that Clark was involved in this
process at all. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
I mean, what I know about Clark's kind of involvement
big picture, is that she has been involved. She's been
president in Indiana throughout the off season, and she has
definitely been involved in you know, uh, free and she
recruiting process, you know, talking her perspective free agents. She's
involved in little things like what food, uh, you know,
(27:12):
do you want on the road, that kind of thing.
Her involvement is definitely high in the franchise. But I
think this was really a it starts with Kelly Crosscoff,
is what I would say about how you know, some
of these decisions were made.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
So last year, the Fever kind of got a Rod
deal right right after the draft, the season started. Kaitlin
Clark had just played a long college. It was tough,
and then they started out. They struggled out of the gate,
but they found their footing and you know, ultimately had
had a positive season. I'm just curious, do you think,
based on their schedule that the league was like, you
know what, we got to schedule more of these primetime
(27:45):
TV games for Clark and also, by the way, let's
not wear her down, you know, we kind of need
Kitlin Clark in the playoffs.
Speaker 3 (27:51):
Do I think they scheduled more primetime games for Kaitlin
Clark this year than last year?
Speaker 2 (27:56):
I mean absolutely.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
I mean the data shows that they're on national television
and you know, and that includes something on you know,
NBA TV and other platforms like that. I think forty
one of their forty four games this year, that's the
most of any team in the league. So certainly, you know,
the league has made made its intentions very clear, and
you know networks have said, like we want those games
because you look at the ratings of those games and
(28:19):
the ratings are historically good. I mean, they played in
a preseason game this year against Brazil. It was on
May fourth, Caitlin Clark and the Fever return to the
University of Iowa. It averaged I think one point three
million viewers. Again, this a preseason game against the Brazilian
national team. ESPN said, I think since twenty ten, of
their like fifty seven preseason games in the NBA, only
(28:42):
two have gotten a better rate than that WNBA game,
and both of those involved Lebron and I think it
was like Lebron's return to Cleveland and you know calvs.
Warriors one year, Like that's what we're talking about in
terms of a preseason rating. So we'll see what the
regular season then brings.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
So do you think as a result, and again I'm
not trying to stir up like an issue, but like
do other teams and players around the league be like,
you know, we got the MVP with the defended chis,
why are we not on TV that much? Or are
you of the impression that hey, people get it. Hey,
Caitlin Clark right now is the bread winner for the league.
Let's let's let's ride that out. No.
Speaker 3 (29:19):
I think there's an understanding. I mean, New York and
Las Vegas aren't that far behind in terms of national
TV rights windows, and I think there's an understanding that
like Caitlin Clark in the Indiana Fever are certainly accelerants
and very important to ratings, merchandise awareness. And we've seen
a lot of teams, you know, benefit in their ticket
sales when they play the Indiana Fever. So I think
(29:42):
there's a recognition of, you know, the Clark effect in
the w Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
My my wife and daughter as soon as the schedule
came out, were like, so, when is Kitlin Clark coming
to play the Sparks? Can we get tickets? We've got
it circled. I'm trying to make it happen. They're pricey.
But let me ask about the season opener against Angel
Reason Company. Now, Angel Reese has had a bit of
an offseason where she was like talking about a potential
holdout because they need to get paid more. I'm just curious,
(30:08):
where are the where's Chicago in the hierarchy heading into
the season and your thoughts on Angel Reese as a player.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
Sure, I mean I would first also clarify, like there's
an ongoing CBA negotiation right now and kind of Reese's
comments on her podcast regarding that where that like the
players have.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
Said that.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
You know, they they want to accept a deal that
is is right for them. They're not just, uh, they're
not avoiding, they're not hoping for a work stoppage, but
they're saying like we are going to negotiate to kind
of get the deal that we want, and we won't
have more clarity there until the fall. So that's just
one point of clarity there. In terms of the Chicago
skuy and Angel Rees, I mean, they have a first
year head coach and Tyler Marsh who has a long
(30:49):
player development background both with the Las Vegas Aces where
he was an assistant coach and also has some NBA
and NBA G League ties. They have overhauled some of
their roster and one of the things that kind of
we would expect this year is she's going to play
a little bit more on the perimeter and just as
it means to kind of play in space. Tyler Marsh
again came from the Aces where he coached Asia Wilson.
(31:09):
If you watch her, she does a lot kind of
at the high post, at the elbow and the sky.
Have two bigs. Camilla Cardoso was you know, their number
three pick in the twenty twenty four WM draft. She
was a start South Carolina, and so I would kind
of expect a lot of high low, big, big action
and a lot of action to try and you know,
get Angel going downhill and potentially kicking out to teammates.
So that's one thing to be aware of. Chicago also
(31:30):
signed Courtney Vanderslut, who is one of the all time,
you know, greatest passers in WNB history. She'd been with
the franchise for more than a decade, then went to
the New York Liberty for two years. These last two years,
Vandersuit still, you know, even though she's in her mid thirties,
a very willing and a great passer, and so Reese
kind of has a true point guard to help set
(31:51):
her up and facilitate and that should pay a bunch
of dividends as well.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
Let me go back to a point you were talking
about about the CBA. We see a new team and
expansion team, Golden State in the WNBA. How are we
supposed to read that? Obviously, this has been in the
works for years, but the expansion the league kind of
popping in the last couple of years, the interest in
the draft, like you said, the offseason. Are you of
(32:16):
the sense that the league this is just the beginning
of ANBA expansion and there's more down the pike.
Speaker 3 (32:22):
Yeah, and that's already been confirmed with at least two teams.
So this year the WNBA is expanding to thirteen teams.
They're adding the Golden State Valkyries, as you said, first
expansion team since two thousand and eight. Next year there'll
be two more expansion teams in the WNBA. Portland and
Toronto are already announced. It will be the Toronto Tempo.
They've actually already hired a general manager who is a
former player in front office exec. And then there's a
(32:45):
question about when they will announce a sixteenth team. The
league has said that they hope to do so by
at least twenty twenty eight and we have seen already
with that sixteen team, and we'll see if it's sixteen
or you know, because of interest, they go even higher.
You know, there was a deadline this last January for
perspective groups to submit bids. More than ten groups ended
up submitting bids, and a lot of those bidders have
(33:07):
you know NBA ties, So the ownership group of the
Philadelphia seventy six ers, Dan Gilbert, the owner of the Calves,
Tom Gores, Detroit Pistons, like you know, there were some
independent groups who definitely are trying to bid and get
into the league. But we have continued to see or
we have seen an uptick in NBA owners can wanting
to be part of the next round of expansion. And
(33:28):
the Valkyries we should say owned by Joe Lake and
Peter Guber, who are the owners and chairman of the Warriors.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
So I guess we could wrap up. You know, when
when the well, the NBA expanded in the late eighties
early nineties, we saw, you know, there's a lot of
complaints about, oh it's a little water down, there's just
not enough good players. But that was way back in
now was well thirty years ago for almost forty years ago.
I haven't looked at the Golden State Valkyrie's roster. But
(33:57):
are you of the sense that, like, hey man, there's
room for a lot more good players in this league?
Expansion is a great thing or is this do you
think maybe gonna water down things a little?
Speaker 1 (34:06):
No.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
I think expansion is definitely a good thing, and the
business seems like it can support it. And I do
think there's enough roster talent. I mean, right now we
have a very high concentrated there's a very high concentration
of talent across the league. I mean, so many of
these teams have two or three stars. And I think
as a whole, the whole WNBA, you know, I would
say nine or ten teams got better this offseason, and
(34:27):
inevitably not all those teams are even gonna make the
playoffs just because of how competitive the league is. And
so the other thing that you see, and as we
tape this, like it's roster cut week, cut down week,
and so there's a lot of players who have been
pretty successful in college who will not make teams and
WNBA teams, you know, many of these teams are only
going to roster eleven players.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
To start the year.
Speaker 3 (34:49):
And so it's pretty much the hardest league to make
in the world because of just how tight it is,
how few roster spots there are. You know, again thirteen
teams and most teams taken around eleven players because of
salary cap reasons. And so like you expand you had
another team this year, two more next year. You know,
that's twelve and then thirty six more players who are
getting opportunities that would not otherwise. And so, yeah, I
(35:12):
think we're gonna see a little bit more dispersal of talent,
and that's natural in the case of any expansion draft
and as the league expands. But yeah, there is talent
and certainly gives players an opportunity to develop, you know,
just by getting reps in a WNBA context in a
way that they wouldn't if they were not making these rosters.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
I wonder, Ben, if that'll be part of the new CBA. Hey,
we need to expand rosters. I mean, eleven is not
a lot of people on a roster. You get three
injuries all of a sudden, you know, it's a foul
trouble in the game. It's dicey. Want do you think
that'll be part of the new CBA.
Speaker 3 (35:42):
Yeah, I mean we'll see, because again, as you expand rosters,
there's some you know, kind of contractual effects that take hold.
I mean, I think it has long been a clamoring
that fans and even some execs have about like roster
size versus expansion is always kind of a debate that
kind of comes up what is kind of better for
(36:02):
the league at a certain period of time. There isn't
a you know, WNBA developmental league in the season right
in the US, the same way that there is in
the NBA, So you know, the kind of existence of
you know, in the NBA, again you have two way
contracts here in the W Like a player doesn't make
a team, they get cut, how are they working on
their game to then the best position to succeed when
(36:23):
they get back in the W NBA, Like, that's always
a question that kind of people have. You you have
to train on your own, you know, there are alternatives.
We see Obviously a lot of players historically play in
professional leagues overseas in the winter, but again that doesn't
help them continue to develop during the summer. So yeah,
I mean it's definitely a big question about what's the
(36:44):
right number here again, twelve is the max that you
can have on a roster, but because of cap reasons, yeah,
a lot of teams really only carry eleven. So it
is certainly a big topic of conversation going forward.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
All right, Ben Pickman, the athletic, great stuff, Hey Man.
Enjoy the w NBA season. Well, I'm sure we'll be
reading a lot of your stuff obviously the big debut
on Saturday. And talk to you soon, buddy. Thanks a
lot for having me
Host
Jason McIntyre
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