August 27, 2024 • 34 mins
On today’s episode, Jason discusses the Dallas Cowboys finally deciding to make All-Pro CeeDee Lamb one of the highest paid wide receivers in the NFL. Later, The Athletic’s Mike Sando swings by to break down the results of his annual NFL Quarterback Tiers poll for 2024. During the interview, Sando discusses why so many voters had a problem with Joe Burrow finishing 2nd overall, why reigning NFL MVP Lamar Jackson isn’t seen as a Tier 1 quarterback, whether or not Dak Prescott deserves to be the highest paid quarterback in the league, how the discourse surrounding Jalen Hurts has changed so much in one year, why Brock Purdy is ranked ahead of a guy like Tua Tagovailoa and much more!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
This is Straight Fire with Jason McIntyre.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
What is up straight firefam, It's me Jason McIntyre. Straight
Fire or Tuesday, August twenty seventh. Got a great guest
today for you. He is Mike Sando from The Athletic,
the author of the Quarterback Tiers, which always sets off
a firestorm among NFL fans right before the season. You know,
(00:34):
preseason's over. Not a whole heck of a lot happening.
Although we'll have two small items of news I'll get
to you in shortly. But the Quarterback Tiers piece does
get people fired up. And what's best is our conversation
is a good one. We disagree on some stuff and
Mike made it sound at the end like, oh, I've
got some fresh ideas here. I like this because I
(00:56):
just took it in a little different direction. But before
we get to that, let's get a couple quick news items.
The big news, of course, Malik Willis traded.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
No, I'm just kidding.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Malik Willis did get traded the third round pick from
the Titans in twenty twenty two.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
It's funny.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
You get a new coach in there, Callahan the Joe
Burrow Osi and he's.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
Like, yeah, that's that guy's not for us.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
So Malik Willis shipped to the Green Bay Packers. He
was the quarterback at a Liberty who had really good numbers.
But as we're seeing now some of these quarterbacks in
the last few years coming out, it's just it ain't happening.
It's just Malik will I can't remember any game other
than the Chiefs game where he was like, I mean,
he was a four for ten for like seven yards,
(01:37):
throwing something insane. They just didn't trust him, and that
was I think. I don't know if it was last year,
two years ago, but basically, Malik Willis hasn't done Jack
squat in the NFL. The trade doesn't matter much. The
big story is, of course Ceedee Lamb and the Cowboys.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
Come to an agreement.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
So Jerry Jones and his.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Uh uh not a priority.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Whatever it's done, and Ceedee Lamb got paid four years, hundred,
thirty six million dollars thirty eight million dollars signing bonus
one hundred million dollars guaranteed. Okay, one hundred MILLI guarantee.
I just it's tough for me to fathom that. I
know some of you guys think, oh, Jay, you're on TV,
you're a ball er, blah blah. Trust me, guys, like
(02:19):
the idea of oh my gosh, one hundred million dollars guarantee.
Now he's putting his life on the line. I'm sure
you guys saw the awful story about a high school
player who me uh, a high school football player who
died of a brain injury suffered during a game. Like yes,
I know, we say these guys are putting life and
(02:40):
limb on the line, and they are. You're one hit
away from potentially being paralyzed. And this quarterback in Alabama
injured during a tackle and he died, Like this can happen, man,
Now it doesn't happen frequently, but like you know, football
is a violent support and I'm happy for Ceede Limb
he got paid.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Is it an overpay? I don't know.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Justin Jefferson's at thirty five million a season, AJ Brown's
thirty two and you know you got Amara, Saint Brown,
Tyreek Hill, all of them in there. And you know,
basically ceedde Liam's going to be the second highest paid receiver.
So now the ball's in the court of the Bengals
and Jamar Chase and the forty nine ers, and I
(03:22):
don't think I end that class. I would put him
closer to DJ Moore. I think obviously Jim Moore. I
would put Jamar Chases as above Ceedee Lamb. I know
everybody likes Slam I like him a lot, but Jamar Chases.
I mean, now he's got Burrow, whereas Ceedee Lamb has Dak.
There's a big gap there, as you'll find out on
the quarterback tiers. But just interesting quarterback bubble. I'm you know,
(03:46):
I've talked about it all summer. You guys listen to
the pod. You know this all summer quarterback bubble is
a thing. It is happening. Nobody's I don't think anybody's
noticed it. Everybody thinks you must have a wide receiver
to win this league. You got to pay these whatever
the market says. I just think this is all wrong.
There's massive group thing happening you when it comes to
these contracts for wide receivers and quarterbacks. To an extent,
(04:08):
somebody's gonna upset the apple cart eventually. All right, without
further ado, let's get to our guest. Mike Sando of
the Athletic.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
the nation. Catch all of our shows at Foxsports Radio
dot com and within the iHeartRadio app. Search FSR to
listen live. You know a guy, Jason likes to think
he knows everything when it comes to sports. I know
what sports dance wants, but for everything he doesn't, he
(04:41):
knows the guy who does. Let's just say I.
Speaker 4 (04:44):
Know a guy who knows the guy who knows another guy.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
All right, let's welcome into straight fire. A guy who
loves to get everybody worked up with the quarterback tears
at the Athletic.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
It came out this week.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Some people are fired up. Joe Burrow makes the leap
in who's falling? Let's bring in Mike Sando of the Athletic.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
Mike, how are you?
Speaker 4 (05:04):
I'm doing well. It's one of my favorite days of
the year.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Yeah, I can imagine. So let me read just for
everybody at home. The panel for who's judging these quarterback
tiers consisted of seven gms, eight head coaches, twelve coordinators,
twelve executives, eight assistant coaches, and three involved in coaching analytics.
I am just curious and I don't know if this
(05:29):
is phrased poorly. But why are executives pulled? Is that
more since it's not a GM. Is this like owner
or like a no.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
It could be like a pro personnel director, right, or
a player personnel director or a senior personnel executive who
used to be a GM and is now working, you know,
from the other team, So it's kind of a catch all.
It could be somebody who oversees the salary cap or
something like that. I try to get people that are seasoned,
that have done it for a while. But there's a
good mix. There really is a good mix of ages
(06:01):
and different types of jobs and different types of people.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Now, unlike a lot of lists Mike, where people will
maybe leave someone out or put someone too high just
to get you know, oh my gosh, I can't believe
they did this, and then the list goes viral and
you get a lot of clicks like that's you know,
Internet list one oh one. It doesn't seem to be
the case here, which is great, and obviously polling helps.
So the top tier Patrick Mahomes, obviously, Josh Allen, obviously,
(06:24):
Joe Burrow, I think obviously, But it sounds like maybe
there is a little pushback on Burrow.
Speaker 4 (06:29):
Yeah, there is. So, you know, I spend a couple
of months putting this together because I'm talking to fifty people.
It takes a while. I'll start right after the draft usually,
and I get so far into it that everything is
everything makes sense to me by the end of it.
But then when you show it to a group of
people that haven't been doing this for the two months,
(06:50):
you find out what stands out and is crazy to them.
And I'm always a little like I read through it
sometimes I try to guess, like, Okay, what out of
this are people? You know, You're you're too close to
it to really know what people are going to see.
So the first thing I got today was Burrow's been
hurt too much? When's he going to start to slide?
What's going on with him? Defense helped him get to
(07:10):
the super Bowl, all these things, like there was people
a little sort of glass half emptying him, you know
what I mean. And I feel like, if he has
another year where he's hurt, we're going to have that conversation.
And that's in the writing of this. But there's a
lot of fans out there who were like he should
already be moving down.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
Yeah, I can't.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Those people seem to be overreacting, and listen, I'm the
guind of guy who calls Joe Burrow glass Joe.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
On the herd and all these Bengals fan get worked up.
L I like him.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
I think he's a top tier quarterback. I don't really
think there's any debate.
Speaker 4 (07:42):
Now.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
He wasn't great last year. He's had some issues at
the beginning of seasons. But I mean, are we just
going to forget how he just dismembered the forty nine
ers last year in a vintage Burrow performance and then
took apart the bills like he is incredible? Now, I'm
sure some people were worked up about Lamar Jackson not
being in the second tier it's last.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
Tier, Yeah, what's that?
Speaker 4 (08:05):
Or not being in the first tier?
Speaker 3 (08:06):
Yeah, because he was the MVP. But Mike, you know this,
Lamar didn't have a great year last year.
Speaker 4 (08:11):
I know it was such a hard thing to try
to vote for the MVP last year, you know, And
I think he just sort of had to say, like
what I did. I voted for him in the MVP
at the end, and I understand all the arguments everyone else.
I just think, Okay, this guy was on the best
team let him in, passing, let him and rushing, and
he's an integral part of what they do. But it
washing nowhere close to his MVP season of twenty nineteen,
(08:33):
for example, and then the way that it ended. So
as I was pulling this and talking to people for like,
I would say, for the first twenty five thirty voters,
Lamar was like solidly in Tier one, so I thought
he was going to make Tier one, and then as
I got through the whole fifty, it evened out. He
was very close, just missed it by two or three votes.
(08:53):
I think it's perfect, though. I think it's perfect that
it's a smaller Tier one, so he's not behind Herbert, Okay,
he's not behind some of these other guys. I think
that was frustrating for Lamar fans in the past, some
just football fans like, wait a minute, but all of
these guys that are not in Tier one have some
(09:13):
kind of a hole. And for Lamar, it's hey, more
reps please, that are successful when you have to pass.
They spent to his credit and to their defensive credit,
they're always ahead by a lot. But when they got
to play Kansas City, we're behind. It was didn't look
as good, and he has struggled in the playoffs partly
(09:33):
because of that. The game, at its hardest for quarterbacks
gets reduced to having to pass when they know you're
going to pass. It doesn't mean he's not a good passer,
but a pure passer. Having to do it in those
circumstances has not been his forte. He's probably better at it,
but I think if he beats Kansas City and flourishes
in that format, he's easily Tier one easily. I mean,
(09:56):
he's up there with Alan and Burrow in my opinion
in this poll if that were to happen. But I
think it's just a perfect line because that line exists
for a reason, and he's.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
The next guy.
Speaker 4 (10:06):
He's a top five quarterback, he's fourth, so you can't
complain too much about that.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
Yeah, it is weird. That was it a Sunday night
or Monday night game against the Niners where Purdy had
like three picks in the first half. It felt like
that was for the MVP because if you remember, Perdy
was legitimately right there, and then Lamar had a good
but not great game and brought Purty was awful, and
it was like Okay, Lamar's the MVP, and I think
Dak ended up passing Party for runner up.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
Yeah, even though Perdy Party's niners crushed him.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
It just feels like sometimes we overreact to a game
or two when it comes to MVP.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
But with Tears, I don't think you can do that, right, No.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
I think in the MVP, the voters were like just
waiting for Purdy to have a couple of bad games
so they didn't have to worry about that, they didn't
have to go away from their priors too much. Right, Hey,
this is a late round pick. It's all the Shanahan system.
That's what people want to say and believe, and there's
truth to it. There's truth to it. He's different than
some of the other guys. I think that made it
easy to remove him in this he makes a big jump.
(11:06):
I mean, I'm looking at him here and right now
Purdy comes in. I believe he's number twelve overall. He's
solidly in Tier two. But he's not you know, he's
not up there with Stafford and Rogers and Herbert and Lamar,
who guys you've done it for longer, and guys who've
done it a little bit more with some traits, right.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
So yeah, it seems like Tier two is really robust
eleven quarterbacks in there, and it's weird because Lamar is
in the same tier as Kirk Cousins and that just
doesn't seem right.
Speaker 4 (11:35):
Kirk Cousins has always been on that border line of
two three. So yeah, if more than anybody over the years,
people say can I give it two five? They feel
like that's where he both they feel like he's earned
more respect than to be a three, but they also
don't like to put him in the same tier with
some of those other guys in two. I do think
he was playing really well last year though, so I
(11:55):
don't have as much of a problem. But you're right,
there's different ways to play the quarterback position, and Lamar
breaks the mold. There were guys you know who said, look,
one of the quotes in there was like, he's a
Tier one with limitations. For me, Well, the definition of
Tier one is there's not these limitations. But people are like,
this guy's so he's so good at what he can
(12:16):
do that it's almost disrespectful to not give him a one.
So guys give him a one even though they know
he hasn't hit all the criteria, but he certainly does
things differently and it's more dynamic, You're right, than at
Kirk Cousins, So.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
To nobody's surprised.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
The biggest jumps from last year were Brock Perdy, who
went up two tiers and Jordan Love. Now Perdy, I
get okay, I totally get it. I gotta be honest, Mike,
Like I understand, Jordan Love was great for eight or
nine games. He just was equally bad as he was
good in the first half of the season. And I
(12:51):
know you got to pay him and he got a
massive contract. But something just strikes me is we're going
gaga over a guy after nine games already has a
year and a half, maybe a couple more, a little
more than a year and a half, but something like
that under his belt. Are we overreacting to Jordan Love?
Speaker 4 (13:07):
Yeah, well, you said you have to pay him. Why
where's he going? He gonna go sign with a different
team this offseason. I don't understand why these teams do it.
It's almost like the Hey, we believe in our guy
and this is proof. I think green Bay also gets
the benefit of the doubt. Oh they've done this before.
They had far if they went to Rogers, Now this
guy showed some flashes. Clearly he's going to be they
(13:29):
solve their position. I do think there's enough good to
feel good about him. If I were a Packer fan,
I would feel like, hey, I like the odds here,
But I think you're right too. There were bad games
as well, even Tampa Bay later in the season not
a great game, right, and then when they lost in
the playoffs, not as good of a game. So you
do have to you know, they paid Rogers without that
(13:50):
many games either, so you know, maybe they know and
they're onto it. I don't think he's going to be
a bust. I think he's shown enough that he's going
to be good. But if he had come in in
the top of tier three, would you feel better about that?
Speaker 3 (14:03):
For Love?
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Well, I mean, Tua's at the top of tier three,
and I don't know. We've got more data on Tua
being a better quarterback than Jordan Love, don't we.
Speaker 4 (14:11):
I think though with Tua, people say, yeah, he's got
the great production, but that Jordan Love would do it
across more systems than Tua would. People look at the
scheme and the and what's a rundom is being exceptional
and think that when, like, for example, when he has
to throw it or when it gets off schedule, it
(14:31):
gets really hard for him. Whereas with Jordan Love, even
though the body of work's not there, if a play
were to break down and the guy had to just
go do something on his own, I think most people
would feel Jordan Love could do that, so that probably
helps him. I do agree that, you know, I don't
know why they have to rush into the huge contracts
(14:52):
with some of these guys, Like even with Tua, Well,
where's two of going?
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Yeah, do fish?
Speaker 3 (14:59):
What's the market? Oh?
Speaker 2 (15:00):
While we're there, since, let's touch on Dak, who is
a hot button guy. He checks in a Tier two,
number nine, right behind Stroud, ahead of Golf. Dak has
been longing a big new deal. He has not gotten it,
and I keep hearing from all these reporters, Oh, they'll
be a huge market for Dak if he walks because
they can't tag him. And I'm like, hold on, who's
(15:23):
paying a free agent quarterback all the money? Like I do,
That's not how you build a team. Everybody knows that now,
So I don't see the Raiders saying hey, instead of
drafting a quarterback. Let's spend fifty five million a year
on Dak Prescott. Do you see that happening?
Speaker 4 (15:37):
I do. Oh yeah, I think we are to get
the market he would get that. Yes, yeah, it's rare
to see. I mean Kirk Cousins. Kirk Cousins did it,
and at that time his numbers weren't as you know,
as big as the numbers are today. But they certainly
put him in the near the top of the league
at the time, as somebody.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
Forty or forty five a year.
Speaker 4 (15:57):
When he first started, he got I meant.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
I'm sorry when he went Vikings to Falcons.
Speaker 4 (16:02):
Oh this deal, yeah, this deal did not put him
as high I don't think a relative to the top
of the quarterback pecking order as his previous one did
when he went to the Vikings. But he's really the
only guy who's gotten to the market in that manner, right,
I mean it's rare to get in that manner. Sometimes
you might be cut or or whatnot, or you could
(16:23):
be traded, but that's our or in the case of
like Peyton Manning late in his career, he's willing to
take less to go to Denver than he could have
gotten right, because he's trying to build a team or
Tom Brady certainly did a deal with Tampa Bay, but
I think a Dak Prescott could command more. Now, we
don't know if that's the number one most important thing
(16:44):
to him either. You know, he maybe he wants to
win and feels like there's well for him. But get Yeah,
but he's made two hundred million dollars. I mean he doesn't, right.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
But okay, so if that's the case, why doesn't he
just take you know, fifty or forty five from the Cowboys?
Speaker 4 (16:56):
And he's in a right because he's in a great situation.
Though as a player, you work for this to have
leverage over the team. Yeah, I mean it's a wonderful
situation for him, and he's already got paid after having
a broken leg. I totally see Like if I were him,
unless hey, just the security and let's do it, let's
not have it be on my mind. If that was
(17:18):
important to me, then maybe I would just say, hey,
let's do it. But it feels like, you know, Jerry
Jones is now they just paid ceed lamb. But I
think he's in a different boat as a truly elite
difference maker young, right, you're taking care of a guy.
I feel like this offseason kind of with McCarthy, Jerry's
waiting right, like, hey, last year wasn't good enough. I
want to see what I want to do, and well,
I think he would resign Deck for the right number.
(17:40):
I don't think he's gonna I think at this point
he's resisted just going to the as high as he needs,
you know, to go to the top of the scale.
I think if both sides, I think I could. I
don't know if this will happen because Jerry usually just
pays guys in the end, but it wouldn't be the
dumbest thing if both of them just said, hey, we
got a lot of respect for each other. I hope
(18:00):
this works out long term. Let's just go see what
happens this year. You know, if Dak goes and wins, uh,
we went in the playoffs, shoot, that's a great problem
for us to have. Well, we'll be right there at
the front of the line. You know. That sort of
a thing would be interesting to me because Jerry Jones
can do that. He's not getting fired. He's the owner,
right right.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
I guess the tricky part with Dak is it's like Okay,
we've seen him with a stack deck in Dallas and
in the playoffs he's been limited every year. He got
out played by Garoppolo, he got oupplied by Purdy, he
got uh w. Jordan Love came in the building and
look better than him. So it's like, what am I paying?
Speaker 3 (18:33):
Am I really?
Speaker 2 (18:34):
If you're paying fifty five MILLI a year for Dak Prescott,
what's your ceiling?
Speaker 3 (18:37):
Nine ten wins?
Speaker 2 (18:38):
If you're the Raiders, maybe yeah, you still will only
get the third best quarterback.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
In the division.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
And that's why even I don't know could Sorry.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
Look, Tua just got fifty three million. He's the top
of Tier three.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
With a stay at him.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
I think staying is differently as opposed to like signing
a new guy.
Speaker 4 (18:54):
Yeah, but don't you think you can get more when
you have a market. It just takes two teams.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
But that's the thing.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Like for for Cousins coming off the Achilles, going Vikings Falcons,
there was really not a market for him.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
The Vikings really didn't want to pay him.
Speaker 4 (19:09):
He's thirty six.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
And he is a little older.
Speaker 4 (19:11):
That's you, he's a little bit of older. I think
that's a little bit of a factor just where people
feel he's at in his career. I think Dak would
have a I think Dak could have a sixty million
dollar market out there.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
I mean, Mike, if if, if that happens, you can
come on and dance all over my head. I just
I don't see any team that has a brain doing
anything like that, like sixty mili for a guy who
and let's be honest.
Speaker 4 (19:35):
I see what did you see what Deshaun Watson got?
Speaker 2 (19:38):
I did that was a desperate desperate Browns never had
a quarterback needed him and has that worked out?
Speaker 4 (19:43):
You know? Yeah, no doubt about it. But if they
had Dak Prescott on their team, they probably would have
made a deep playoff from with that defense possibly right,
maybe he would have melted down or something.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
But he's had a great defense in the.
Speaker 4 (19:53):
Last couple of years. They've had a good defense. I
will say it's crazy that they have the second most
wins the last three years to Kansas City, but just
haven't pushed in the playoffs.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
So that's dominating not higher Yeah regular season bully, right. Yeah,
Now that he came in ahead of Jalen Hurts on
the tiers, I feel like Hurts is So two years
ago he goes to the Super Bowl and I'm pretty
sure off that everybody thought Jalen Hurts is the man.
Was he tier one or no?
Speaker 4 (20:18):
No, he was tier two. So here's Dak. Just Dak's
like a plane going along at thirty five thousand feet, right,
and then he's been doing that for seven eight years.
No one's coming up this year and going, here's what
I think of Dak as different? Right, everyone thinks the
same thing. He's a good, solid tier two guy going
at thirty five thousand feet and Jalen Hurts was a
guy at ten thousand feet. And then Jalen Hurts kind
(20:39):
of went like this but then dipped down to thirty,
you know, So that's all it was. He came up.
But then last year, you know, there's questions, and I
think there's still questions about the you know, the team
in terms of its offensive philosophy and how it meshes
with him. His ability, like we talked about, you know,
with some of these other guys to handle the peer
passing situations look very good. Last year. Clearly he made
(21:02):
strides from what he was before and showed he can
be a good passer of the football. But when he
had to do it, it didn't look as good and
sometimes it looked really bad. So how do you feel
about where they're at? Just his you know, Shane Stike
and ut there a coordinator change, you bring in Vic Fangio.
There's just a lot of Kelsey retires. Maybe the tush
(21:22):
push isn't is good. Maybe there's more on the quarterback's
plate in terms of managing in the game without the
fifteen year center, right, there's just a to me, there's
a lot of ways that place could be harder for
him to do as well.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
This year, Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk
lineup in the nation. Catch all of our shows at
foxsports Radio dot com and within the iHeartRadio app search
FSR to listen live.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
People forget. I know it ended badly.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
They were ten and one last year, and I know
some of that was luck involved, but they started ten
in one and I was like, Jalen Hurts is really good.
I feel like he's a little almost undervalued, although I
will say in Tier three two was at the top,
followed by Trevor Lawrence, who dropped down a tear and
Lawrence feels like a polarizing guy all of a sudden
because he hasn't lived up to generational number one pick.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
Blah blah blah.
Speaker 4 (22:13):
He feels low to me, like, I'm surprised there's not
more people saying maybe it's just this Jacksonville, you know.
But I felt like if I could, if I would
have seen this in advance, I would say, ooh, that's
quite a bit of a dip for Trevor. Lawrence went
down seven spots in the rankings in one year, don't
we know. They were eight and three, and he was
doing decently and then he had a series of injuries,
(22:34):
you know too, two three injuries that really affected him probably,
But there's also I think people are wondering, there, Okay,
who's calling the plays, how's this going to look at?
Why doesn't look a little bit better than it does
than it did? And they fired the defensive staff. The
defense was pretty good, So that's interesting with him. I
think with your question on Stike, and I think it's
a big deal. I think we even saw last year.
(22:55):
I think Stiken did a good job with the game
plans and seems to do a really good job with
getting the style of offense right for the quarterback. If
Anthony Richardson doesn't make it an Indy. I don't think
it's because of Stich and I think it'll be because,
you know, either he was too raw, or the injuries
continue being a problem with that style of play or whatever. Right,
(23:16):
he showed a little bit of a lack of awareness
sometimes running and took some big hits. I don't think
it'll be for the offensive design. I think Stichen's good
at that.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
I'm looking down at the bottom of Tier three and
it's like Deshaun Watson, who you alluded to.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
He just continues to free.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Fall, don't What do you think I mean, do you
think that the personal issues taking a year off all
that got to him? Because the only potential parallel was
when Leveon Bell took a year off. Remember he thought
he was hot stuff and he's like, oh, I'm just
going to get my money, and then he comes back
totally washed and it's like, oh my gosh. Now Watson
was younger and played a different position, but for whatever reason,
(23:53):
he cannot get his act together. And he's got a
great head coach.
Speaker 4 (23:57):
I'd say a couple I do think there's something to
what you're saying. I want to talk about that but
I would say his he has said some injuries, and
then we've also they have a new offensive coordint of
this year, even though it's obviously Kevin Stepansky's offense. I
think play action system kind of RPO quarterback that was
one of the points at up hasn't been a great fit.
But I think there has to be something on a
human level. And and just the way are the complicated
(24:22):
ways in which our minds and just with the way
we respond think of this. All of whatever he had
going on clearly shows that there was some things out
of control probably in his life, right, there were some things.
That's not a good sign. I don't you know the
degree of the degree of guilt or whatever. I'm not
talking about that. Just all of that stuff going on
shows there's stuff under the surface that wouldn't be helpful
(24:46):
for maximizing performance. Then you really sort of become a
bit of a pariah, so that people don't even like
you anymore. And that's a big that's a big that's
a big deal though, like to people, like how you
feel about going a your day, Like some people can
get down if people on social media are being mean
to him or whatever, Right, that's a part of the mindset.
(25:07):
And then by the way, we're going to give you
a fully guaranteed contract that you get the money no
matter what. So that's a big that's a lot of
stuff going on that if that was going on for
a lot of people at age twenty five, twenty seven
or whatever, you might not get peak performance. Yeah, and
then you sit out as long as you did too.
(25:29):
He's lost something, you know, he's lost something, and I
almost feel like, I'm not sure he's gonna get it back.
And I look at these tiers and see like I
almost wonder at he's in the middle of tier three,
Like is that almost too high? Oh?
Speaker 3 (25:45):
Oh jeez, yeah, when's the lot?
Speaker 4 (25:47):
Well, how can we react, Like, when's the last time
he's played good ball?
Speaker 2 (25:50):
I think he had one good game last year. Maybe
it was the Bengals game, I don't know, or some
it was one game where he was Oh maybe it
was a Ravens game and he was really good. But
I think that was a game he got hurt in
and then he's like, oh, yeah, it's gonna be fine.
Then he's like no out for the season. I don't
know what to make of Watson is something's off The
other guy don't totally understand is Kyler Murray, who, Yeah,
(26:11):
you know, sometimes the news comes out on somebody and
it's so damaging that you cannot remove it from your analysis.
And I'm of the belief, Mike, that the homework clause
really killed Kyler Murray's value. It's really tough to respect
someone who gets sent home a computer with stuff to
look at and then doesn't open the computer all season,
and the staff knows it because their IT team could see, Yeah,
(26:33):
he's not looked at any of these videos. Like, how
do you get past that?
Speaker 3 (26:37):
That's your star quarterback?
Speaker 4 (26:38):
Right? The only way you get past that is by
playing really well and showing people that you're not that way,
and that just doesn't happen overnight. I feel like his
evil in this thing was kind of incomplete and disappointing
to me, Like I wish that we had some new
thing to say about Kyler, but you know, he was
out with the injury, then he came back and did okay.
I think there's generally a good feeling around with the
(27:00):
trying to do offensively there with their coordinator and that
I think, I know there's optimism in Arizona they're feeling
good about it kind of behind the scenes. But he
just needs to play for a season and play well.
That's how you change the narrative. Until then, you're right,
that thing of the homework is just kind of there.
Maybe he can overcome that by just maturing and playing
(27:22):
really good ball. He hasn't done that, so we're kind
of waiting. He hasn't had a chance either, so we'll
see it this year.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
I mean, again, Mike, this is kind of a bigger
picture thing, but like, Okay, Patrick Mahomes has Andy Reid, right,
Patrick Mahomes and plus Andy Reid equals all time greatness.
Josh Allen doesn't really have anyone he had dable as
a OC, So I'm kind of a little more impressed
with Alan Burrows OC. I mean, nobody special. But then
(27:49):
you see like, oh, well mcveigh's got a guy in there.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
Who's the near the top of Ben Johnson.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Yeah, so like some of these quarterbacks have really good
offensive and you know Tua there in tier three. It's like, okay,
he has Mike McDaniel. Okay, great, yo, what if Tua
had I don't know, Nathaniel.
Speaker 3 (28:07):
Hackett, Like he's probably not even in the league, right, so.
Speaker 4 (28:11):
Totally, Well, he was going out of the league when
he had before, when the previous stets there.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Yeah, it was ugly and like Kirk Cousins has kind
of bounced around, and then then you have my guy
brock Perty and I will always be a champion hip
for him. I like the underdog story. I know people
want to say it's Shanahan Mike. I know you know
we're not talking contracts as much, but I think Perdy
to me is maybe the most fascinating quarterback this season
because he's looking to get paid after the season. And
(28:38):
I don't know where you are on this, I know,
but sounds like, based on your Dak comments, you pay
the quarterback guy.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
I just let the idea.
Speaker 4 (28:46):
Oh no, no, no, I'm telling what I said about
Dak was that I think that he will get paid.
What I don't like as much from a team standpoint.
A lot of times we analyze these things from a
team standpoint, right player, I want everybody to get paid,
But if I'm building a team and we're talking about
strategies for teams, I would like to easier than them.
(29:07):
But I would like to say to to hey, we
think you're a really great fit for our system.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
We don't.
Speaker 4 (29:15):
Just in all due respect, we think there's a huge
gap between mahomes and almost the rest of the league.
But even between you and and Josh all you tell
you maybe you're saying this to the agent in the negotiation,
there's differences here, and we think that the benefit here
in Miami is a little bit more mutual, right, it's
a little bit more equal that. Hey, you're great for
what we want to do, don't get me wrong, but
(29:39):
you're not carrying the whole thing the way Josh Allen
is going to be asked to do, or a Mahomes can.
And so we would love to pay you instead of
here where you know, the top of the market is.
We'd like to pay you here. And so how's forty
two a year or whatever it is. And then what
happens is if we go all nope, sorry, the market's
fifty five. Okay, you think, so you want to go
(30:01):
somewhere else and get it, But the teams don't want
our risk upsetting and having it be an issue, so
they pay the price just to get it done. And
then you know, life pretty much goes on.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
So that's where the party one comes in. I love
brock Purdy's story. I love him at his salary as
everybody would. Mike, I'm going to be honest. I am
of the belief that the Niners should have drafted a
quarterback this past year. I think you should take one
every year because I somebody smart is eventually going to
do it. You're going to win a bunch with your
quarterback on the rookie deal, and at the end of it,
(30:37):
when he asks for top of the market money, you
move on from him. Trust your system, the infrastructure, and
you just put in a new quarterback and make it work.
I thought Pennix could have been that guy in Miami
filling in for tu I'm not.
Speaker 3 (30:50):
Paying to a fifty three million a year whatever.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Why not put Pennix, a veteran college quarterback, slide him
in lefty right can easily get the system. I thought
that would have made sense. But like you said, people
are afraid to upset the apple cart, and it sounds
like maybe you don't think any executive would roll the
dice with something like that.
Speaker 4 (31:09):
Well, you mentioned the forty nine ers. There's few organizations
that are strong enough to do that. It's really hard.
As a GM to go to your owner in a
lot of teams and say, our guy's not that guy
we took in the top five, he's not really all
that great. Let's just move on from him after year.
And the owner's going, we're selling tickets around this being
a championship run, Right, you want to bring in a rookie, right,
(31:32):
Nobody wants to do that. But the forty nine ERDs
are a little bit different that way. I feel like
Shanahan's obviously a difference maker as an offensive coach, and
he's a strong personality, and so you know, maybe they
could be the type of team to do that. It's
also the easier said than done to just uproot your
starting quarterback, right, It's just kind of it's sort of
(31:54):
one of those things that makes great sense in theory,
but it's a It is a business of people, and
it's a business with how you treat people to some degree,
and what more could you have asked that rock party
to have done? If you're there, if you're in that
locker room and you say, oh, if this guy came
in here and did everything right, and he led the
league and this and that, and we're just kicking him
(32:14):
with the curb. What does that say about me? What
does that say about the thing we got going here?
When coach talks about you know, when coach Mike McDaniel
talks about what we've got going here with Tua is
he is he not really believe that? Because we're now
kicking on the curb, right.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
You know that that's the tough part that is difficult
to navigate. You just have to be a little cold
blooded and be like, listen, this is a business. We
can win with Rock Party on his rookie deal. We
can't win when we're paying fifty five mil and have
to jettison three other starters.
Speaker 4 (32:42):
You know, that's why we have the best jobs in
the whole thing, because we get to make all these
tough decisions with no consequences, nos, accountability none. I can't
say what Chris Greer should do, John Lynch, And it's
super easy.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
It's easy.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
The the Trey Lance one is super interesting.
Speaker 4 (32:59):
You're right.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
They traded up to make him their guy. He fits
our system, he's perfect. Oh wait a minute, this ain't
the dude. And to move off of him so quickly
was so genius. I saw him throw five picks over
the weekend for the uh, I know, for the Cowboys,
and it's like, well.
Speaker 3 (33:13):
Damn, Trey Lance going to be out a league in
a year or two. So, I mean, he might be right.
Speaker 4 (33:17):
That's rights. That takes, you know, it takes a lot
OF's a lot of people in the legue go oh.
I would have been fired if that happened, you know,
if we did that. And they're probably right, but you know,
they have a little bit of strength there in that organization,
and certainly they recognize what the difference maker Kyle Shanahan
is and and they've got one of the best records
in the league since doing that deal, even though look
at a lot of their first round picks haven't been
(33:38):
amazing first round picks, but they've always been there in
the end, all right.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
Mike Sando the athletic, the quarterback tears polarizing brock Perty
makes the biggest leap with Jordan Love.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
Baker Mayfield makes a loop. We didn't even talk about him.
I don't know. We'll see how much of that was doing.
Speaker 4 (33:54):
Let's see this next year. Let's see him do it again.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Right, Yeah, I would say Bryce Young is more likely
to make a leap this year than Baker Mayfield duplicating
what he did, would you agree?
Speaker 4 (34:06):
I don't know about that. I mean, I think Baker
has played, has had good seasons when healthy for two
different teams that won divisions. Yeah, they had pretty good defenses,
probably too, But I think Baker's I think Baker's pretty good.
But he does have to kind of put it together
more than one year at a time.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Yeah, certainly, all right, buddy, thanks for taking the time.
Enjoy the upcoming season.
Speaker 4 (34:27):
Man, this is great, really a fun discussion. Thank you.
This is Straight Fire with Jason McIntyre.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
What is up straight firefam, It's me Jason McIntyre. Straight
Fire or Tuesday, August twenty seventh. Got a great guest
today for you. He is Mike Sando from The Athletic,
the author of the Quarterback Tiers, which always sets off
a firestorm among NFL fans right before the season. You know,
(00:34):
preseason's over. Not a whole heck of a lot happening.
Although we'll have two small items of news I'll get
to you in shortly. But the Quarterback Tiers piece does
get people fired up. And what's best is our conversation
is a good one. We disagree on some stuff and
Mike made it sound at the end like, oh, I've
got some fresh ideas here. I like this because I
(00:56):
just took it in a little different direction. But before
we get to that, let's get a couple quick news items.
The big news, of course, Malik Willis traded.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
No, I'm just kidding.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Malik Willis did get traded the third round pick from
the Titans in twenty twenty two.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
It's funny.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
You get a new coach in there, Callahan the Joe
Burrow Osi and he's.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
Like, yeah, that's that guy's not for us.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
So Malik Willis shipped to the Green Bay Packers. He
was the quarterback at a Liberty who had really good numbers.
But as we're seeing now some of these quarterbacks in
the last few years coming out, it's just it ain't happening.
It's just Malik will I can't remember any game other
than the Chiefs game where he was like, I mean,
he was a four for ten for like seven yards,
(01:37):
throwing something insane. They just didn't trust him, and that
was I think. I don't know if it was last year,
two years ago, but basically, Malik Willis hasn't done Jack
squat in the NFL. The trade doesn't matter much. The
big story is, of course Ceedee Lamb and the Cowboys.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
Come to an agreement.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
So Jerry Jones and his.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Uh uh not a priority.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Whatever it's done, and Ceedee Lamb got paid four years, hundred,
thirty six million dollars thirty eight million dollars signing bonus
one hundred million dollars guaranteed. Okay, one hundred MILLI guarantee.
I just it's tough for me to fathom that. I
know some of you guys think, oh, Jay, you're on TV,
you're a ball er, blah blah. Trust me, guys, like
(02:19):
the idea of oh my gosh, one hundred million dollars guarantee.
Now he's putting his life on the line. I'm sure
you guys saw the awful story about a high school
player who me uh, a high school football player who
died of a brain injury suffered during a game. Like yes,
I know, we say these guys are putting life and
(02:40):
limb on the line, and they are. You're one hit
away from potentially being paralyzed. And this quarterback in Alabama
injured during a tackle and he died, Like this can happen, man,
Now it doesn't happen frequently, but like you know, football
is a violent support and I'm happy for Ceede Limb
he got paid.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Is it an overpay? I don't know.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Justin Jefferson's at thirty five million a season, AJ Brown's
thirty two and you know you got Amara, Saint Brown,
Tyreek Hill, all of them in there. And you know,
basically ceedde Liam's going to be the second highest paid receiver.
So now the ball's in the court of the Bengals
and Jamar Chase and the forty nine ers, and I
(03:22):
don't think I end that class. I would put him
closer to DJ Moore. I think obviously Jim Moore. I
would put Jamar Chases as above Ceedee Lamb. I know
everybody likes Slam I like him a lot, but Jamar Chases.
I mean, now he's got Burrow, whereas Ceedee Lamb has Dak.
There's a big gap there, as you'll find out on
the quarterback tiers. But just interesting quarterback bubble. I'm you know,
(03:46):
I've talked about it all summer. You guys listen to
the pod. You know this all summer quarterback bubble is
a thing. It is happening. Nobody's I don't think anybody's
noticed it. Everybody thinks you must have a wide receiver
to win this league. You got to pay these whatever
the market says. I just think this is all wrong.
There's massive group thing happening you when it comes to
these contracts for wide receivers and quarterbacks. To an extent,
(04:08):
somebody's gonna upset the apple cart eventually. All right, without
further ado, let's get to our guest. Mike Sando of
the Athletic.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
the nation. Catch all of our shows at Foxsports Radio
dot com and within the iHeartRadio app. Search FSR to
listen live. You know a guy, Jason likes to think
he knows everything when it comes to sports. I know
what sports dance wants, but for everything he doesn't, he
(04:41):
knows the guy who does. Let's just say I.
Speaker 4 (04:44):
Know a guy who knows the guy who knows another guy.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
All right, let's welcome into straight fire. A guy who
loves to get everybody worked up with the quarterback tears
at the Athletic.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
It came out this week.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Some people are fired up. Joe Burrow makes the leap
in who's falling? Let's bring in Mike Sando of the Athletic.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
Mike, how are you?
Speaker 4 (05:04):
I'm doing well. It's one of my favorite days of
the year.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Yeah, I can imagine. So let me read just for
everybody at home. The panel for who's judging these quarterback
tiers consisted of seven gms, eight head coaches, twelve coordinators,
twelve executives, eight assistant coaches, and three involved in coaching analytics.
I am just curious and I don't know if this
(05:29):
is phrased poorly. But why are executives pulled? Is that
more since it's not a GM. Is this like owner
or like a no.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
It could be like a pro personnel director, right, or
a player personnel director or a senior personnel executive who
used to be a GM and is now working, you know,
from the other team, So it's kind of a catch all.
It could be somebody who oversees the salary cap or
something like that. I try to get people that are seasoned,
that have done it for a while. But there's a
good mix. There really is a good mix of ages
(06:01):
and different types of jobs and different types of people.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Now, unlike a lot of lists Mike, where people will
maybe leave someone out or put someone too high just
to get you know, oh my gosh, I can't believe
they did this, and then the list goes viral and
you get a lot of clicks like that's you know,
Internet list one oh one. It doesn't seem to be
the case here, which is great, and obviously polling helps.
So the top tier Patrick Mahomes, obviously, Josh Allen, obviously,
(06:24):
Joe Burrow, I think obviously, But it sounds like maybe
there is a little pushback on Burrow.
Speaker 4 (06:29):
Yeah, there is. So, you know, I spend a couple
of months putting this together because I'm talking to fifty people.
It takes a while. I'll start right after the draft usually,
and I get so far into it that everything is
everything makes sense to me by the end of it.
But then when you show it to a group of
people that haven't been doing this for the two months,
(06:50):
you find out what stands out and is crazy to them.
And I'm always a little like I read through it
sometimes I try to guess, like, Okay, what out of
this are people? You know, You're you're too close to
it to really know what people are going to see.
So the first thing I got today was Burrow's been
hurt too much? When's he going to start to slide?
What's going on with him? Defense helped him get to
(07:10):
the super Bowl, all these things, like there was people
a little sort of glass half emptying him, you know
what I mean. And I feel like, if he has
another year where he's hurt, we're going to have that conversation.
And that's in the writing of this. But there's a
lot of fans out there who were like he should
already be moving down.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
Yeah, I can't.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Those people seem to be overreacting, and listen, I'm the
guind of guy who calls Joe Burrow glass Joe.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
On the herd and all these Bengals fan get worked up.
L I like him.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
I think he's a top tier quarterback. I don't really
think there's any debate.
Speaker 4 (07:42):
Now.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
He wasn't great last year. He's had some issues at
the beginning of seasons. But I mean, are we just
going to forget how he just dismembered the forty nine
ers last year in a vintage Burrow performance and then
took apart the bills like he is incredible? Now, I'm
sure some people were worked up about Lamar Jackson not
being in the second tier it's last.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
Tier, Yeah, what's that?
Speaker 4 (08:05):
Or not being in the first tier?
Speaker 3 (08:06):
Yeah, because he was the MVP. But Mike, you know this,
Lamar didn't have a great year last year.
Speaker 4 (08:11):
I know it was such a hard thing to try
to vote for the MVP last year, you know, And
I think he just sort of had to say, like
what I did. I voted for him in the MVP
at the end, and I understand all the arguments everyone else.
I just think, Okay, this guy was on the best
team let him in, passing, let him and rushing, and
he's an integral part of what they do. But it
washing nowhere close to his MVP season of twenty nineteen,
(08:33):
for example, and then the way that it ended. So
as I was pulling this and talking to people for like,
I would say, for the first twenty five thirty voters,
Lamar was like solidly in Tier one, so I thought
he was going to make Tier one, and then as
I got through the whole fifty, it evened out. He
was very close, just missed it by two or three votes.
(08:53):
I think it's perfect, though. I think it's perfect that
it's a smaller Tier one, so he's not behind Herbert, Okay,
he's not behind some of these other guys. I think
that was frustrating for Lamar fans in the past, some
just football fans like, wait a minute, but all of
these guys that are not in Tier one have some
(09:13):
kind of a hole. And for Lamar, it's hey, more
reps please, that are successful when you have to pass.
They spent to his credit and to their defensive credit,
they're always ahead by a lot. But when they got
to play Kansas City, we're behind. It was didn't look
as good, and he has struggled in the playoffs partly
(09:33):
because of that. The game, at its hardest for quarterbacks
gets reduced to having to pass when they know you're
going to pass. It doesn't mean he's not a good passer,
but a pure passer. Having to do it in those
circumstances has not been his forte. He's probably better at it,
but I think if he beats Kansas City and flourishes
in that format, he's easily Tier one easily. I mean,
(09:56):
he's up there with Alan and Burrow in my opinion
in this poll if that were to happen. But I
think it's just a perfect line because that line exists
for a reason, and he's.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
The next guy.
Speaker 4 (10:06):
He's a top five quarterback, he's fourth, so you can't
complain too much about that.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
Yeah, it is weird. That was it a Sunday night
or Monday night game against the Niners where Purdy had
like three picks in the first half. It felt like
that was for the MVP because if you remember, Perdy
was legitimately right there, and then Lamar had a good
but not great game and brought Purty was awful, and
it was like Okay, Lamar's the MVP, and I think
Dak ended up passing Party for runner up.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
Yeah, even though Perdy Party's niners crushed him.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
It just feels like sometimes we overreact to a game
or two when it comes to MVP.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
But with Tears, I don't think you can do that, right, No.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
I think in the MVP, the voters were like just
waiting for Purdy to have a couple of bad games
so they didn't have to worry about that, they didn't
have to go away from their priors too much. Right, Hey,
this is a late round pick. It's all the Shanahan system.
That's what people want to say and believe, and there's
truth to it. There's truth to it. He's different than
some of the other guys. I think that made it
easy to remove him in this he makes a big jump.
(11:06):
I mean, I'm looking at him here and right now
Purdy comes in. I believe he's number twelve overall. He's
solidly in Tier two. But he's not you know, he's
not up there with Stafford and Rogers and Herbert and Lamar,
who guys you've done it for longer, and guys who've
done it a little bit more with some traits, right.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
So yeah, it seems like Tier two is really robust
eleven quarterbacks in there, and it's weird because Lamar is
in the same tier as Kirk Cousins and that just
doesn't seem right.
Speaker 4 (11:35):
Kirk Cousins has always been on that border line of
two three. So yeah, if more than anybody over the years,
people say can I give it two five? They feel
like that's where he both they feel like he's earned
more respect than to be a three, but they also
don't like to put him in the same tier with
some of those other guys in two. I do think
he was playing really well last year though, so I
(11:55):
don't have as much of a problem. But you're right,
there's different ways to play the quarterback position, and Lamar
breaks the mold. There were guys you know who said, look,
one of the quotes in there was like, he's a
Tier one with limitations. For me, Well, the definition of
Tier one is there's not these limitations. But people are like,
this guy's so he's so good at what he can
(12:16):
do that it's almost disrespectful to not give him a one.
So guys give him a one even though they know
he hasn't hit all the criteria, but he certainly does
things differently and it's more dynamic, You're right, than at
Kirk Cousins, So.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
To nobody's surprised.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
The biggest jumps from last year were Brock Perdy, who
went up two tiers and Jordan Love. Now Perdy, I
get okay, I totally get it. I gotta be honest, Mike,
Like I understand, Jordan Love was great for eight or
nine games. He just was equally bad as he was
good in the first half of the season. And I
(12:51):
know you got to pay him and he got a
massive contract. But something just strikes me is we're going
gaga over a guy after nine games already has a
year and a half, maybe a couple more, a little
more than a year and a half, but something like
that under his belt. Are we overreacting to Jordan Love?
Speaker 4 (13:07):
Yeah, well, you said you have to pay him. Why
where's he going? He gonna go sign with a different
team this offseason. I don't understand why these teams do it.
It's almost like the Hey, we believe in our guy
and this is proof. I think green Bay also gets
the benefit of the doubt. Oh they've done this before.
They had far if they went to Rogers, Now this
guy showed some flashes. Clearly he's going to be they
(13:29):
solve their position. I do think there's enough good to
feel good about him. If I were a Packer fan,
I would feel like, hey, I like the odds here,
But I think you're right too. There were bad games
as well, even Tampa Bay later in the season not
a great game, right, and then when they lost in
the playoffs, not as good of a game. So you
do have to you know, they paid Rogers without that
(13:50):
many games either, so you know, maybe they know and
they're onto it. I don't think he's going to be
a bust. I think he's shown enough that he's going
to be good. But if he had come in in
the top of tier three, would you feel better about that?
Speaker 3 (14:03):
For Love?
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Well, I mean, Tua's at the top of tier three,
and I don't know. We've got more data on Tua
being a better quarterback than Jordan Love, don't we.
Speaker 4 (14:11):
I think though with Tua, people say, yeah, he's got
the great production, but that Jordan Love would do it
across more systems than Tua would. People look at the
scheme and the and what's a rundom is being exceptional
and think that when, like, for example, when he has
to throw it or when it gets off schedule, it
(14:31):
gets really hard for him. Whereas with Jordan Love, even
though the body of work's not there, if a play
were to break down and the guy had to just
go do something on his own, I think most people
would feel Jordan Love could do that, so that probably
helps him. I do agree that, you know, I don't
know why they have to rush into the huge contracts
(14:52):
with some of these guys, Like even with Tua, Well,
where's two of going?
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Yeah, do fish?
Speaker 3 (14:59):
What's the market? Oh?
Speaker 2 (15:00):
While we're there, since, let's touch on Dak, who is
a hot button guy. He checks in a Tier two,
number nine, right behind Stroud, ahead of Golf. Dak has
been longing a big new deal. He has not gotten it,
and I keep hearing from all these reporters, Oh, they'll
be a huge market for Dak if he walks because
they can't tag him. And I'm like, hold on, who's
(15:23):
paying a free agent quarterback all the money? Like I do,
That's not how you build a team. Everybody knows that now,
So I don't see the Raiders saying hey, instead of
drafting a quarterback. Let's spend fifty five million a year
on Dak Prescott. Do you see that happening?
Speaker 4 (15:37):
I do. Oh yeah, I think we are to get
the market he would get that. Yes, yeah, it's rare
to see. I mean Kirk Cousins. Kirk Cousins did it,
and at that time his numbers weren't as you know,
as big as the numbers are today. But they certainly
put him in the near the top of the league
at the time, as somebody.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
Forty or forty five a year.
Speaker 4 (15:57):
When he first started, he got I meant.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
I'm sorry when he went Vikings to Falcons.
Speaker 4 (16:02):
Oh this deal, yeah, this deal did not put him
as high I don't think a relative to the top
of the quarterback pecking order as his previous one did
when he went to the Vikings. But he's really the
only guy who's gotten to the market in that manner, right,
I mean it's rare to get in that manner. Sometimes
you might be cut or or whatnot, or you could
(16:23):
be traded, but that's our or in the case of
like Peyton Manning late in his career, he's willing to
take less to go to Denver than he could have
gotten right, because he's trying to build a team or
Tom Brady certainly did a deal with Tampa Bay, but
I think a Dak Prescott could command more. Now, we
don't know if that's the number one most important thing
(16:44):
to him either. You know, he maybe he wants to
win and feels like there's well for him. But get Yeah,
but he's made two hundred million dollars. I mean he doesn't, right.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
But okay, so if that's the case, why doesn't he
just take you know, fifty or forty five from the Cowboys?
Speaker 4 (16:56):
And he's in a right because he's in a great situation.
Though as a player, you work for this to have
leverage over the team. Yeah, I mean it's a wonderful
situation for him, and he's already got paid after having
a broken leg. I totally see Like if I were him,
unless hey, just the security and let's do it, let's
not have it be on my mind. If that was
(17:18):
important to me, then maybe I would just say, hey,
let's do it. But it feels like, you know, Jerry
Jones is now they just paid ceed lamb. But I
think he's in a different boat as a truly elite
difference maker young, right, you're taking care of a guy.
I feel like this offseason kind of with McCarthy, Jerry's
waiting right, like, hey, last year wasn't good enough. I
want to see what I want to do, and well,
I think he would resign Deck for the right number.
(17:40):
I don't think he's gonna I think at this point
he's resisted just going to the as high as he needs,
you know, to go to the top of the scale.
I think if both sides, I think I could. I
don't know if this will happen because Jerry usually just
pays guys in the end, but it wouldn't be the
dumbest thing if both of them just said, hey, we
got a lot of respect for each other. I hope
(18:00):
this works out long term. Let's just go see what
happens this year. You know, if Dak goes and wins, uh,
we went in the playoffs, shoot, that's a great problem
for us to have. Well, we'll be right there at
the front of the line. You know. That sort of
a thing would be interesting to me because Jerry Jones
can do that. He's not getting fired. He's the owner,
right right.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
I guess the tricky part with Dak is it's like Okay,
we've seen him with a stack deck in Dallas and
in the playoffs he's been limited every year. He got
out played by Garoppolo, he got oupplied by Purdy, he
got uh w. Jordan Love came in the building and
look better than him. So it's like, what am I paying?
Speaker 3 (18:33):
Am I really?
Speaker 2 (18:34):
If you're paying fifty five MILLI a year for Dak Prescott,
what's your ceiling?
Speaker 3 (18:37):
Nine ten wins?
Speaker 2 (18:38):
If you're the Raiders, maybe yeah, you still will only
get the third best quarterback.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
In the division.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
And that's why even I don't know could Sorry.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
Look, Tua just got fifty three million. He's the top
of Tier three.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
With a stay at him.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
I think staying is differently as opposed to like signing
a new guy.
Speaker 4 (18:54):
Yeah, but don't you think you can get more when
you have a market. It just takes two teams.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
But that's the thing.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Like for for Cousins coming off the Achilles, going Vikings Falcons,
there was really not a market for him.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
The Vikings really didn't want to pay him.
Speaker 4 (19:09):
He's thirty six.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
And he is a little older.
Speaker 4 (19:11):
That's you, he's a little bit of older. I think
that's a little bit of a factor just where people
feel he's at in his career. I think Dak would
have a I think Dak could have a sixty million
dollar market out there.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
I mean, Mike, if if, if that happens, you can
come on and dance all over my head. I just
I don't see any team that has a brain doing
anything like that, like sixty mili for a guy who
and let's be honest.
Speaker 4 (19:35):
I see what did you see what Deshaun Watson got?
Speaker 2 (19:38):
I did that was a desperate desperate Browns never had
a quarterback needed him and has that worked out?
Speaker 4 (19:43):
You know? Yeah, no doubt about it. But if they
had Dak Prescott on their team, they probably would have
made a deep playoff from with that defense possibly right,
maybe he would have melted down or something.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
But he's had a great defense in the.
Speaker 4 (19:53):
Last couple of years. They've had a good defense. I
will say it's crazy that they have the second most
wins the last three years to Kansas City, but just
haven't pushed in the playoffs.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
So that's dominating not higher Yeah regular season bully, right. Yeah,
Now that he came in ahead of Jalen Hurts on
the tiers, I feel like Hurts is So two years
ago he goes to the Super Bowl and I'm pretty
sure off that everybody thought Jalen Hurts is the man.
Was he tier one or no?
Speaker 4 (20:18):
No, he was tier two. So here's Dak. Just Dak's
like a plane going along at thirty five thousand feet, right,
and then he's been doing that for seven eight years.
No one's coming up this year and going, here's what
I think of Dak as different? Right, everyone thinks the
same thing. He's a good, solid tier two guy going
at thirty five thousand feet and Jalen Hurts was a
guy at ten thousand feet. And then Jalen Hurts kind
(20:39):
of went like this but then dipped down to thirty,
you know, So that's all it was. He came up.
But then last year, you know, there's questions, and I
think there's still questions about the you know, the team
in terms of its offensive philosophy and how it meshes
with him. His ability, like we talked about, you know,
with some of these other guys to handle the peer
passing situations look very good. Last year. Clearly he made
(21:02):
strides from what he was before and showed he can
be a good passer of the football. But when he
had to do it, it didn't look as good and
sometimes it looked really bad. So how do you feel
about where they're at? Just his you know, Shane Stike
and ut there a coordinator change, you bring in Vic Fangio.
There's just a lot of Kelsey retires. Maybe the tush
(21:22):
push isn't is good. Maybe there's more on the quarterback's
plate in terms of managing in the game without the
fifteen year center, right, there's just a to me, there's
a lot of ways that place could be harder for
him to do as well.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
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Speaker 3 (21:47):
People forget. I know it ended badly.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
They were ten and one last year, and I know
some of that was luck involved, but they started ten
in one and I was like, Jalen Hurts is really good.
I feel like he's a little almost undervalued, although I
will say in Tier three two was at the top,
followed by Trevor Lawrence, who dropped down a tear and
Lawrence feels like a polarizing guy all of a sudden
because he hasn't lived up to generational number one pick.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
Blah blah blah.
Speaker 4 (22:13):
He feels low to me, like, I'm surprised there's not
more people saying maybe it's just this Jacksonville, you know.
But I felt like if I could, if I would
have seen this in advance, I would say, ooh, that's
quite a bit of a dip for Trevor. Lawrence went
down seven spots in the rankings in one year, don't
we know. They were eight and three, and he was
doing decently and then he had a series of injuries,
(22:34):
you know too, two three injuries that really affected him probably,
But there's also I think people are wondering, there, Okay,
who's calling the plays, how's this going to look at?
Why doesn't look a little bit better than it does
than it did? And they fired the defensive staff. The
defense was pretty good, So that's interesting with him. I
think with your question on Stike, and I think it's
a big deal. I think we even saw last year.
(22:55):
I think Stiken did a good job with the game
plans and seems to do a really good job with
getting the style of offense right for the quarterback. If
Anthony Richardson doesn't make it an Indy. I don't think
it's because of Stich and I think it'll be because,
you know, either he was too raw, or the injuries
continue being a problem with that style of play or whatever. Right,
(23:16):
he showed a little bit of a lack of awareness
sometimes running and took some big hits. I don't think
it'll be for the offensive design. I think Stichen's good
at that.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
I'm looking down at the bottom of Tier three and
it's like Deshaun Watson, who you alluded to.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
He just continues to free.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Fall, don't What do you think I mean, do you
think that the personal issues taking a year off all
that got to him? Because the only potential parallel was
when Leveon Bell took a year off. Remember he thought
he was hot stuff and he's like, oh, I'm just
going to get my money, and then he comes back
totally washed and it's like, oh my gosh. Now Watson
was younger and played a different position, but for whatever reason,
(23:53):
he cannot get his act together. And he's got a
great head coach.
Speaker 4 (23:57):
I'd say a couple I do think there's something to
what you're saying. I want to talk about that but
I would say his he has said some injuries, and
then we've also they have a new offensive coordint of
this year, even though it's obviously Kevin Stepansky's offense. I
think play action system kind of RPO quarterback that was
one of the points at up hasn't been a great fit.
But I think there has to be something on a
human level. And and just the way are the complicated
(24:22):
ways in which our minds and just with the way
we respond think of this. All of whatever he had
going on clearly shows that there was some things out
of control probably in his life, right, there were some things.
That's not a good sign. I don't you know the
degree of the degree of guilt or whatever. I'm not
talking about that. Just all of that stuff going on
shows there's stuff under the surface that wouldn't be helpful
(24:46):
for maximizing performance. Then you really sort of become a
bit of a pariah, so that people don't even like
you anymore. And that's a big that's a big that's
a big deal though, like to people, like how you
feel about going a your day, Like some people can
get down if people on social media are being mean
to him or whatever, Right, that's a part of the mindset.
(25:07):
And then by the way, we're going to give you
a fully guaranteed contract that you get the money no
matter what. So that's a big that's a lot of
stuff going on that if that was going on for
a lot of people at age twenty five, twenty seven
or whatever, you might not get peak performance. Yeah, and
then you sit out as long as you did too.
(25:29):
He's lost something, you know, he's lost something, and I
almost feel like, I'm not sure he's gonna get it back.
And I look at these tiers and see like I
almost wonder at he's in the middle of tier three,
Like is that almost too high? Oh?
Speaker 3 (25:45):
Oh jeez, yeah, when's the lot?
Speaker 4 (25:47):
Well, how can we react, Like, when's the last time
he's played good ball?
Speaker 2 (25:50):
I think he had one good game last year. Maybe
it was the Bengals game, I don't know, or some
it was one game where he was Oh maybe it
was a Ravens game and he was really good. But
I think that was a game he got hurt in
and then he's like, oh, yeah, it's gonna be fine.
Then he's like no out for the season. I don't
know what to make of Watson is something's off The
other guy don't totally understand is Kyler Murray, who, Yeah,
(26:11):
you know, sometimes the news comes out on somebody and
it's so damaging that you cannot remove it from your analysis.
And I'm of the belief, Mike, that the homework clause
really killed Kyler Murray's value. It's really tough to respect
someone who gets sent home a computer with stuff to
look at and then doesn't open the computer all season,
and the staff knows it because their IT team could see, Yeah,
(26:33):
he's not looked at any of these videos. Like, how
do you get past that?
Speaker 3 (26:37):
That's your star quarterback?
Speaker 4 (26:38):
Right? The only way you get past that is by
playing really well and showing people that you're not that way,
and that just doesn't happen overnight. I feel like his
evil in this thing was kind of incomplete and disappointing
to me, Like I wish that we had some new
thing to say about Kyler, but you know, he was
out with the injury, then he came back and did okay.
I think there's generally a good feeling around with the
(27:00):
trying to do offensively there with their coordinator and that
I think, I know there's optimism in Arizona they're feeling
good about it kind of behind the scenes. But he
just needs to play for a season and play well.
That's how you change the narrative. Until then, you're right,
that thing of the homework is just kind of there.
Maybe he can overcome that by just maturing and playing
(27:22):
really good ball. He hasn't done that, so we're kind
of waiting. He hasn't had a chance either, so we'll
see it this year.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
I mean, again, Mike, this is kind of a bigger
picture thing, but like, Okay, Patrick Mahomes has Andy Reid, right,
Patrick Mahomes and plus Andy Reid equals all time greatness.
Josh Allen doesn't really have anyone he had dable as
a OC, So I'm kind of a little more impressed
with Alan Burrows OC. I mean, nobody special. But then
(27:49):
you see like, oh, well mcveigh's got a guy in there.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
Who's the near the top of Ben Johnson.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Yeah, so like some of these quarterbacks have really good
offensive and you know Tua there in tier three. It's like, okay,
he has Mike McDaniel. Okay, great, yo, what if Tua
had I don't know, Nathaniel.
Speaker 3 (28:07):
Hackett, Like he's probably not even in the league, right, so.
Speaker 4 (28:11):
Totally, Well, he was going out of the league when
he had before, when the previous stets there.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Yeah, it was ugly and like Kirk Cousins has kind
of bounced around, and then then you have my guy
brock Perty and I will always be a champion hip
for him. I like the underdog story. I know people
want to say it's Shanahan Mike. I know you know
we're not talking contracts as much, but I think Perdy
to me is maybe the most fascinating quarterback this season
because he's looking to get paid after the season. And
(28:38):
I don't know where you are on this, I know,
but sounds like, based on your Dak comments, you pay
the quarterback guy.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
I just let the idea.
Speaker 4 (28:46):
Oh no, no, no, I'm telling what I said about
Dak was that I think that he will get paid.
What I don't like as much from a team standpoint.
A lot of times we analyze these things from a
team standpoint, right player, I want everybody to get paid,
But if I'm building a team and we're talking about
strategies for teams, I would like to easier than them.
(29:07):
But I would like to say to to hey, we
think you're a really great fit for our system.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
We don't.
Speaker 4 (29:15):
Just in all due respect, we think there's a huge
gap between mahomes and almost the rest of the league.
But even between you and and Josh all you tell
you maybe you're saying this to the agent in the negotiation,
there's differences here, and we think that the benefit here
in Miami is a little bit more mutual, right, it's
a little bit more equal that. Hey, you're great for
what we want to do, don't get me wrong, but
(29:39):
you're not carrying the whole thing the way Josh Allen
is going to be asked to do, or a Mahomes can.
And so we would love to pay you instead of
here where you know, the top of the market is.
We'd like to pay you here. And so how's forty
two a year or whatever it is. And then what
happens is if we go all nope, sorry, the market's
fifty five. Okay, you think, so you want to go
(30:01):
somewhere else and get it, But the teams don't want
our risk upsetting and having it be an issue, so
they pay the price just to get it done. And
then you know, life pretty much goes on.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
So that's where the party one comes in. I love
brock Purdy's story. I love him at his salary as
everybody would. Mike, I'm going to be honest. I am
of the belief that the Niners should have drafted a
quarterback this past year. I think you should take one
every year because I somebody smart is eventually going to
do it. You're going to win a bunch with your
quarterback on the rookie deal, and at the end of it,
(30:37):
when he asks for top of the market money, you
move on from him. Trust your system, the infrastructure, and
you just put in a new quarterback and make it work.
I thought Pennix could have been that guy in Miami
filling in for tu I'm not.
Speaker 3 (30:50):
Paying to a fifty three million a year whatever.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Why not put Pennix, a veteran college quarterback, slide him
in lefty right can easily get the system. I thought
that would have made sense. But like you said, people
are afraid to upset the apple cart, and it sounds
like maybe you don't think any executive would roll the
dice with something like that.
Speaker 4 (31:09):
Well, you mentioned the forty nine ers. There's few organizations
that are strong enough to do that. It's really hard.
As a GM to go to your owner in a
lot of teams and say, our guy's not that guy
we took in the top five, he's not really all
that great. Let's just move on from him after year.
And the owner's going, we're selling tickets around this being
a championship run, Right, you want to bring in a rookie, right,
(31:32):
Nobody wants to do that. But the forty nine ERDs
are a little bit different that way. I feel like
Shanahan's obviously a difference maker as an offensive coach, and
he's a strong personality, and so you know, maybe they
could be the type of team to do that. It's
also the easier said than done to just uproot your
starting quarterback, right, It's just kind of it's sort of
(31:54):
one of those things that makes great sense in theory,
but it's a It is a business of people, and
it's a business with how you treat people to some degree,
and what more could you have asked that rock party
to have done? If you're there, if you're in that
locker room and you say, oh, if this guy came
in here and did everything right, and he led the
league and this and that, and we're just kicking him
(32:14):
with the curb. What does that say about me? What
does that say about the thing we got going here?
When coach talks about you know, when coach Mike McDaniel
talks about what we've got going here with Tua is
he is he not really believe that? Because we're now
kicking on the curb, right.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
You know that that's the tough part that is difficult
to navigate. You just have to be a little cold
blooded and be like, listen, this is a business. We
can win with Rock Party on his rookie deal. We
can't win when we're paying fifty five mil and have
to jettison three other starters.
Speaker 4 (32:42):
You know, that's why we have the best jobs in
the whole thing, because we get to make all these
tough decisions with no consequences, nos, accountability none. I can't
say what Chris Greer should do, John Lynch, And it's
super easy.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
It's easy.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
The the Trey Lance one is super interesting.
Speaker 4 (32:59):
You're right.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
They traded up to make him their guy. He fits
our system, he's perfect. Oh wait a minute, this ain't
the dude. And to move off of him so quickly
was so genius. I saw him throw five picks over
the weekend for the uh, I know, for the Cowboys,
and it's like, well.
Speaker 3 (33:13):
Damn, Trey Lance going to be out a league in
a year or two. So, I mean, he might be right.
Speaker 4 (33:17):
That's rights. That takes, you know, it takes a lot
OF's a lot of people in the legue go oh.
I would have been fired if that happened, you know,
if we did that. And they're probably right, but you know,
they have a little bit of strength there in that organization,
and certainly they recognize what the difference maker Kyle Shanahan
is and and they've got one of the best records
in the league since doing that deal, even though look
at a lot of their first round picks haven't been
(33:38):
amazing first round picks, but they've always been there in
the end, all right.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
Mike Sando the athletic, the quarterback tears polarizing brock Perty
makes the biggest leap with Jordan Love.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
Baker Mayfield makes a loop. We didn't even talk about him.
I don't know. We'll see how much of that was doing.
Speaker 4 (33:54):
Let's see this next year. Let's see him do it again.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Right, Yeah, I would say Bryce Young is more likely
to make a leap this year than Baker Mayfield duplicating
what he did, would you agree?
Speaker 4 (34:06):
I don't know about that. I mean, I think Baker
has played, has had good seasons when healthy for two
different teams that won divisions. Yeah, they had pretty good defenses,
probably too, But I think Baker's I think Baker's pretty good.
But he does have to kind of put it together
more than one year at a time.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Yeah, certainly, all right, buddy, thanks for taking the time.
Enjoy the upcoming season.
Speaker 4 (34:27):
Man, this is great, really a fun discussion. Thank you.
Host
Jason McIntyre
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