August 14, 2025 • 26 mins
On today’s episode, Jason is joined by The Athletic NFL writer Mike Sando. During the interview, Sando discusses the biggest storylines to come out of his annual QB Tiers survey, including: why a Super Bowl MVP wasn’t enough to push Jalen Hurts up into Tier 1, what made NFL decision makers turn on ‘generational talents’ Trevor Lawrence and Caleb Williams so quickly, why someone like Patrick Mahomes doesn’t need to have a great statistical season to get the benefit of the doubt while someone like Brock Purdy absolutely does, why Michael Penix Jr and Kirk Cousins are ranked so relatively close, and much more!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
This is Straight Fire with Jason McIntire.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
What is up straight Fire? I am, It's me Jason McIntyre.
Straight Fire or Thursday, August the fourteenth, and we have
another great guest getting you ready for football. Quick programming
note before we get to the guest name So Friday,
I will be hosting The Herd for one hour. We're preempted,
(00:32):
I believe by golf, So I'll be hosting one hour
and it's hosting for one hour is fun because you
get to just fire off takes and it's real fun.
Three hours you got to like do a take. You
probably have to run it back. You got a lot
of guests, there's a lot of moving parts. One hour,
you just show up. You got four things you just
fire when ready. It's really fun. And then next week
final week of vacation for the year, and then I
(00:55):
will you know, reboot and come back. Final week of August,
I will host the Herd. That's always fun. And then
football's here. I mean, we're creeping up so fast. You
guys love Brad Powers. A lot of great feedback, and
I think you're going to like today's guest. His name
is Mike Sando. He has been doing quarterback tiers for
over a decade. It gets everybody riled up. I of
(01:17):
course had issues last year with a couple of things.
I mean, are you really a talking head if you
don't have issues with a list, and then today you
know a little. I still don't understand the lack of
Jalen Hurts love. I mean, the dude just gets it done.
How about this stat that I think Rob g got
this from CBS. Maybe Jalen Hurts was in the same
(01:41):
draft class as Burrow. To Herbert, Jalen Hurts has six
playoff wins. All the other guys in the quarterback class
combined have six. And I know wins are not a
stat except when you want to use them to bolster
your argument. Jay, I get it, fine, It's just Jalen
Hurts is good guys. Anyways, without further ado, let's get
to our guest, the athletics Mike Sando.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
the nation. Catch all of our shows at Foxsports Radio
dot com and within the iHeartRadio app search FSR to
listen live. You know a guy, Jason likes to think
he knows everything when it comes to sports. I know
what sports fans want. But for everything he doesn't, he
(02:26):
knows the guy who does.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Let's just say I know a guy who knows the
guy who knows another guy.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
All right, let's welcome into straight fire. Every year he
does the Quarterback Tiers for the Athletic and it does
massive numbers, and then he goes on a media tour.
Maybe it's just not America, maybe it's globally talking about
quarterback teers. Mike Sando from the Athletic, Mike, how are
you man?
Speaker 3 (02:50):
Good? I have done some Canada a few Canada's Wow.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
I mean, Mike hit me with a saggering stat. I
know he does a lot of podcasts, obviously, the Quarterback
Tiers is huge everywhere. There's not a lot to talk about,
and that you guys picked the perfect week every year, seemingly,
and he said, we're recording this on Wednesday. I'm his
ninth of fifteen podcasts today. Now listen. I do a
lot of media, Mike. I've never done fifteen hits in
(03:16):
a day, and I'm assuming you're doing similar numbers to
that all week. Huh?
Speaker 3 (03:20):
Pretty much? Yeah, pretty much. Friday may be not filled
up yet all the way, but I love it and
we know, we embrace it. And there's just so many
good conversations I've had over the years, and so you know,
it's a twelfth year of doing this. And the nice
thing is, in like different markets, there's different things they
want to ask about, you know, So it's not the
same exact conversation every single time everyone brings something to it,
(03:43):
you'll have something that stands up to you. Then I
haven't thought about it that I haven't.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
I don't know. We've been talking about on the Herd
for a couple of days and for me, the one
and I don't really get triggered a lot is Jalen
or Hurts checking in at ninth Now, Listen, I know
that they had a really good team last year, Mike, Yeah,
whether it was defense, draft, free agent linebacker Bond, like
(04:09):
everything they did, hit Saquon Barkley on the cheap, and
Jalen Hurts was excellent. I mean, you sure false you
can remember the last Super Bowl MVP that was this
disrespected without playing a game after the Super Bowl, he
literally won MVP of the biggest football game of the year.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
He had a great post was Nick Foles the MVP?
Speaker 2 (04:31):
He might have been but he probably wasn't even on
the tiers because I don't think he was starting the
next year.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
Was he? I thought he was because I thought we
looked this up. But your point's well taken, Your points
well taken, like it's he. I think it's in the
quarterback tears. My brain must be a little scrambled. I
can't remember it. But there was something in there on
the Hurt section, like if you've read the is he
is like the most discs you know? Uh, And there's
a couple other guys that you know are foals like
(04:56):
you know that weren't even on Hurts's level in terms
of their career accomplishments. So yeah, so this is something
you know. And Colin Coward asked me about this too.
But I've got something new for you on this one
that I didn't think of until yesterday. Actually, Dave de Shaannt,
who does edited my column and is brilliant, does a
(05:16):
great job. He came up with this. He was thinking
about it Hurts too, and we went back and looked.
So Hurts was higher two years ago coming off a
Super Bowl loss, like he had more Tier one votes
and was higher ranked than he is now. And so
you know, light bulb went on my head, like, why
would that be? And here's why I think it is.
(05:37):
I think when he lost the Super Bowl, he was
earlier in his career and he was perceived correctly to
have made a jump as a passer, because right that
was a concern of him coming out, Hey he's more
of a runner. Can he pass the ball? And he
showed that he made progress as a passer. I think
back then people projected that that would continue, that he
would continue to get better and better as a passer.
(05:59):
And since and you know, they had kind of the
weird year and then they had the year this year
where they took the bat of his hands and they
were a running team with Saquon Barkley. Certainly, after the
first few games last year, he hardly ever had a
game where he was throwing the ball a lot. And
so I don't think that anyone perceives that he's taken
(06:20):
another step as a passer, even though this great team
around him, with good play from him, won. So to
put him where he's at, you're basically saying, you know what,
I think you want dosage of him as a passers
is most appropriate. That if we put more of it
on his arm, that it wouldn't be good for the
team or him. Whereas some of these other guys that
(06:42):
are ahead of him in tier two. We'll see on
Jayden Daniels, but justin Herbert Jared Goff to some degree,
Strout's barely ahead of him. But that people feel as
though either there's more of a ceiling there with them,
or you could load them up more than you could
Hurts and you might get better results.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Okay, that's very fair, and I get that. I'm gonna
assume that he was higher off the Super Bowl because
he was extraordinary, and then they had Saquon Barkley this year,
where a lot of people credited, which is fine, but
this was a nugget in your right up here. Hertz
attempted thirty or more passes in each of the Eagles
(07:18):
first four games than only once right Philly Lean did
into the run game. So I just know Lamar Jackson
doesn't throw the football lot. So I did look up
Lamar Jackson. He threw over thirty times, attempted over thirty
passes eight times. Would you believe they lost five of those?
So the more Lamar threw, they were losing. Now, some
(07:40):
of that kind of in they were playing catch up.
The Ravens defense isn't as good as the Eagles, but
when they threw a lot, Yeah, he wasn't exactly like delivering.
And I think it's a knock on the run quarterbacks.
But I keep coming back to this. He was not
a first round pick. He got benched for TUA in Alabama,
and people can't get that stuff out of their head. Impressions, right, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
I think the way that someone's evaluated coming out does
stay with him a little bit longer. But I think
that some of those like he's improved. Obviously, if we
were going off his college evaluation, he'd be a low three.
So he's a very strong two based on what he's
shown with some of those things that were said about
(08:22):
him coming out are true. There are some limitations to
how much you might want him throwing the ball. We
can certainly play around with stats and say this guy
lost games with throwing more. You know, I think that's interesting,
But you know, Lamar, to me, the biggest step that
Lamar made this year was he was winning games with
(08:43):
a bottom defense for a lot of the year and
the kicker, by the way, was doing bad and that's
a really hard thing to do. And that's what Jane
Daniels going to the championship game with the bottom ten defense,
you know, that's there's not a lot of guys who
do that. So Hurts, you know, this year had a
top five defense, probably right around there, and then probably
the number one offensive line, the number one running back,
(09:05):
maybe a top three group of wide receivers. Would you say,
top five?
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Top top five?
Speaker 3 (09:11):
Yeah, top five group of wide receivers in the league.
So you know, for some of these guys, it is
harder to get the credit. And I go back to
rock parties in that world too, you know, because Kyle Shannan.
If if you call up right now all time leaders
in yards per attempt, it's like, you know, Auto Graham,
it's the third guy is Jimmy G. And then you
(09:32):
go Steve young Is. After that, you get a bunch
of Hall of famers up there and Jimmy G's up there,
and you're like, huh, obviously that has to do with
the offense they're in and what Kyle's doing. And so
there's some pretty lips with some of that.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Too, regarding Hurts. So he's checked in at nine, tied
with CJ. Stroud. I'm just gonna and I know everybody
loves Stroud because he was the number two pick and
then out play Bryce Held by a mile. He was
excellent as a rookie. So in year two his completion
percentage ticked down, his touchdowns ticked down, his interceptions went up,
(10:03):
and he took fourteen more sacks. Yet somehow CJ. Stroud
is right on par with Jalen Hurts. And I know
well Stefan Diggs goes down, Jay, come on, give me
a break. Offensive line was horrendous. Well, okay, we can
make excuses, but the numbers are the numbers, like they
just weren't good. Does that mean CJ. Stroud can't elevate
any everybody when he doesn't have everything in position?
Speaker 3 (10:26):
Yeah, I think I'm with you on that. I'm with
you on that. I think Stroud made such a huge impression,
got twelve Tier one votes after his first year, that
he falls. But they see people do take into account
some of you know, they don't give him all the
blame for that. I think they clearly don't. And and so,
but if you were to sit a year ago that
they were going to fire their OC, who was doing
(10:46):
head coach interviews. I mean, give me a break. Wasn't
that crazy? Sonning?
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Yeah? Let me just quickly ask, when you reach out
to these people, do you get a lot of people
saying I don't want to participate in that, I'm not
doing it.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
No, because they are all people that I know. So
that would happen like if you didn't know who you're calling, right,
I mean that would be like when I first did
this in twenty fourteen, I only had twenty six people
do it because I didn't know as many people, you know,
And now I really had cap it at fifty, you know,
because I.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Has everybody probably wants to be in.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Yeah. Well I wouldn't say that. I mean, it's just
that there's more people that I know that. Yeah, let's
talk about it. It's fun, people enjoy it.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
It is.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
I found moderately interesting that like three years ago, Deshaun
Watson was top twelve. I think Aaron Rodgers I think
was top six. It shifts pretty quickly. I am curious.
Do you think people look more at the season or
body of work, career improvements all that stuff.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
Well, the body of work for sure matters. For like,
for example, Patrick Mahomes has the ultimate body of work.
So he's not anymore producing amazing huge stats seasons, but
he's in the Super Bowl an AFC Chamionship game every year.
Like people aren't reassessing on him, and I don't know,
I'm gonna knock him down, right, So I think the
body of work does come into to play. The more
(12:05):
you have probably the uh, the more staying power you're
gonna you're gonna have in weathering a tough season. Whereas
if you've just come in and you know, let's just
say you only started a couple of games in your
first rookie year and then you have a good year,
you're gonna go way up. By the way, I just
looked something up. I just I just cheated and looked
(12:27):
something up for you here. Okay, on your so in
games with in games where you throw thirty or more passes, Okay,
Lamar Jackson's seventeen touchdowns and two interceptions.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Oh so he had good numbers.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
Yeah, yeah he did. He uh And Jalen Hirsch was
six touchdowns four interceptions in his five games. So you
get the feeling there that you know Lamar was maybe
you know, doing a little more as a passer and
player in those games. Hirsch wasn't terrible in him, but.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
He wasn't putting up Lamar numbers.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
He wasn't putting up the even justin Herbert fifteen touchdowns,
two interceptions in those games.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
So it's interesting because one of our guests who comes
on does this preview for the season, and I haven't
seen this stat anywhere. So the Eagles in the fourth quarter,
they were ahead so often. They ran sixty eight plays
all season trailing in the fourth quarter. That's it. So
(13:29):
they're essentially front running because they're so good early and
Jalen doesn't have to throw or play catch up. And
you know, I know he wasn't good guy ahead a.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
Little bit like Trey Aikman back in his career. Well,
why doesn'n Aickman have better passing stats because they threw touchdowns.
He threw two touchdowns in the first half and then
they just hand it off and they kicked. But what's
he supposed to do throw it fifty times a game? Yeah,
you know.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
And Lamar's defense wasn't an excellent I am curious, you know,
And you don't want to continue to knock them, And
I'm not I'm just this is reality. Josh Allen and
Lamar Jackson, for whatever reason, keep coming up just short
in the playoffs. Now, I'm sure you remember that Bill's
lost in Arrowhead. Like, I get it, Josh Allen tier
one quarterback awesome, but the play calling was so horrible.
(14:15):
You rarely say, man Andy Reid called a horrible game
with Mahomes, Yet we say this for Lamar and Harball
in that playoff game they hosted. I lost money on
the Ravens and then the the McDermott and the Bill.
So I know we want to put the quarterbacks in tears,
but they're really tied to the offensive coordinator and coach,
are they not.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
A little bit? I thought Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson
were also a little sloppy early in those games. Ball
on the ground, just ball handling imprecise early in the games.
And I feel like, you know, maybe Mahomes does that
too and overcomes it. But I just feel like some
of the more established Tier one guys or the real
craftsmen of the job, like, are more on point. Like,
(14:56):
you got to play a tight game, right, There's gonna
be limited possessions. Again, It's Kansas city, they shorten the game,
and so every one of those is important. I feel
like those guys like will squander a possession of the snap,
will go by Lamar and he's suddenly running and dogpiling
on and it's not really Lamar's fault, but it's just
it kind of is, and it's just sort of part
of a less part of a not totally airtight operation,
(15:18):
if that makes sense. And maybe maybe that's a difference
of having an offensive coach as your coordinator, right or
a head coach or I don't know, maybe reading too
much into it, but some of those details, some of
those offensive details, to me, I feel like we're lacking
early in the game in the playoffs for both Buffalo
and Baltimore.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
And it's interesting that both those are not coached by
head coach, not by an offensive guy. Mcdermoy defense, hardball,
special teams. I don't know if that plays.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
In they're good coaches, but yeah, they're good.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Yeah, yeah. Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk
lineup in the nation. Catch all of our shows at
foxsports Radio dot com and within the iHeartRadio app. Search
FSR to listen live.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Let's go a little further down the list. So it
is strange that Trevor Lawrence came into the league with
all this acclaim he's the best prospect since Andrew Locke
started as a true freshman at Clemson, won the Natty,
and he's checking in at eighteenth. And if anything, he's
been sliding here for a couple of years. Where what's
the consensus for Lawrence? Like, what's the problem? Jalen Hurts
has had a different OC every year. Okay, Trevor Lawrence
(16:22):
is on multiple head coaches OC's what's the excuse here?
Speaker 3 (16:28):
So I think that people don't feel like he can
become Tier one, and so one of the reasons is
he's just not consistently accurate and hasn't been. So when
you look at a lot of these guys that are
up the top, they kind of have some something really
special about him, right, something that differentiates them. I think
that Trevor Lawrence is a really good athlete, you know,
(16:50):
for being as tall as he is, probably, but what
what is his superpower? Right? What's he super elite at?
What can he have his hat on that he is
known for? Right? Because we can say with the other
guy's burrow pack, here's the anticipation as a passer, lights
out right the homes beside what he does physically. I mean,
(17:12):
you talk about a guy who just has been squared away, driven, competitor,
almost like a Brady type from the beginning, right, mature,
Josh Allen, you try tackling him. I mean, this guy
is a beast, right Lamar Jackson a different type of
a runner, but oh my gosh, a highlight reel when
we're playing him. We're going to be on the highlights
this week, and it's going to be embarrassing. Even Stafford
(17:35):
from the Pocket Magical. You know, what is it for
Trevor Lawrence? Even the top of Tier three Kyler Murray
electric as a runner. Aaron Rodgers is in a different
category two of though when he's on time, incredible accuracy.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
Trevor Lawrence, what is it?
Speaker 2 (17:54):
What is that's a good guy? I had not thought
about that because Lawrence is listen. I mean he he
hasn't been impressive. I think they covered the spread against
the Chiefs in a playoff game or it was close,
maybe a push and then they had the great comeback
against the Chargers and Herbert, but otherwise, yeah, he hasn't
been great. That being said. The situation again, like, hypothetically,
Mike Trevor Lawrence gets Andy Reid in Kansas City. What
(18:18):
does he have three super Bowls already?
Speaker 1 (18:19):
Two?
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Three?
Speaker 3 (18:22):
Yeah, yeah, I mean it's possible that he would have one,
he'd have a Super Bowl. Maybe that's interesting. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Do you think by the way that Trevor lawnce ever
wins the Super Bowl?
Speaker 3 (18:33):
Oh, I would take the I would take the field
on that. I would say no. But that's not a
slap on him. I mean, look, Matthew Stafford played a
lot of ball too. You got to get in the
right situation. Uh yeah, I mean Aaron Rodgers won one
and he's been unanimous to your one in this thing
six times. Rees won at one one.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
You know, it's tough to it still will be real.
It's it's difficult. In the NBA, you know, you get
stars winning multiple Lebron Curry, all these guys. I don't
think it really works like that in the NFL. Let
me ask you about Kayleb Williams. He's got a new
head coach. A lot has been written about last year
what a disaster was from watching film and all that
fun stuff. Are you surprised he's down there with Bryce Young.
(19:14):
Mike actual quote when he was a senior or his
final year at USC, he could be the face of
the NFL in five years, And now he's right there,
down there with Bryce Young.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
I mean, I suppose that he still could be. But
what was so striking about my conversations with people about
him was a lot of people just questioned his ability
to process and process the game quickly. And he took
a ton of sacks, so that's part of it. But
it was like, where's what's he doing, Where's he going
with the ball? Get it out of her hand? And
that was much more of a concern. The conversation around
(19:48):
him was much more concerning and kind of borderline negative
than it was certainly for Jaden Daniels, bow Nicks, even
Drake May. People would point to the situation he was in.
There wasn't anybody like poking holes and Drake May as
a prospect, whereas I felt like with Kayler Williams there
was some of that is that, hey, he was consensus
number one pick, so he's being held to a really
high standard. Yes, that's part of it, Like he was
(20:10):
the if he was a third round pick, people might
be saying, you know what, I kind of liked some
of the things I saw with Caleb, Right, but you're
number one and people are talking about you like you'd
be the face of the league. Now we're going to say, well,
we're not seeing that. So I think it's going to
be really interesting there with Ben Johnson, who hasn't been
afraid to publicly criticized players and calling the question. He's
talked about the team's body language and Caleb's body language
(20:32):
were not a poem's up team. He's been not afraid
to say things publicly and put guys on notice, other
guys with injuries. You know, he's talked about it. So
what he's feeling and thinking about Kayleb Williams, maybe we'll
be able to tell by the things that he says
this year. I think that will be interesting.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Yeah. I'm not bullish on the Bears at all. This
is a tough one and I only just now noticed it.
So Kirk Cousins checks it twenty five, yeah, and Michael
Pennox is twenty eight.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
Yeah. I can explain.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
That has to be a body of work thing, right, Like, oh,
Kirk Cousins had a good career.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
Yeah, Well, it's a little bit of this. So the
tier definitions are pretty linear Tier one, two, three, and
then in tier four. There's two ways you can get
into it. One way is if you played a long time,
you can be Tier four, like, hey, I don't think
you are a full season starter, Russell Wilson, Right, you
can also be a Tier four like not enough information.
(21:31):
Like so JJ McCarthy got fifty Tier four votes. Everyone's
just sort of saying I need to see more, and
so for somebody like Penix. Penix gets eleven votes in
Tier three after three starts, that's pretty good, but thirty
nine people said, you know what, three starts, I want
to see more. Just put him in four. Well, Kirk
gets twenty four votes in Tier four, but those are
like damning tier four votes for him. That's kind of like,
(21:53):
I don't think you're a starter anymore. So as a
result of that, Cousins ranked a little bit higher. His
body of work wine up counting a little bit for him.
He's falling from a higher spot. Penix is probably starting
lower and just inches up because they'll get three starts.
I would almost guarantee that, you know Pennix and McCarthy
for that matter unless they have really tough years, are
(22:13):
going to move up.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
I was going to ask, who do you think is
the candidate to not just move up, but like jump
two tiers or yeah, I guess too, nobody's gonna jump
three tiers. But I'm extremely bullish. I don't want to
give away all my fantasy stuff. But I think Michael
Penix puts up massive numbers this year in Atlanta. I
think he could jump up to Tier two after the season.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
That's probably a good one. I was going to say
that I would think he would go up to the
high tier three, but he I think he will get
Tier two votes next year. That's probably the best one
to go up two tiers because I don't see anyone
really going from Tier three to Tier one, like I
could see bo Nicks going up into Tier two. I
would almost expect that.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
Oh yeah, what about Drake Make think he can also
make that kind of leap.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
I would guess. My guess would be that he would
move up higher and Tier three. Some of that will
depend on what's around him, maybe, but I'm a little
bit more wait and see. They're not negative, just more
wait and see.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
Got a close with my favorite guy. No not the
Jets quarterback. I'm gonna go with Brock Purty. He it's
interesting because, yeah, and this is a tough one, but
Mahomes lost the Super Bowl to Tampa, and I'll never forget, Well,
he didn't have his tacks, he had no chance, he
was running for his Okay, fair enough, Well, Mike Brock
Party was missing Hall of Fame running back, wide receivers,
(23:36):
like offensive line, defensive injuries, like they were beat the
hell up everywhere. And I don't hear that for Brock Purtty.
I hear the opposite of what I heard from Mahomes.
It was like, well, Party can't elevate anyone. That's just
not how he plays. Talk to me about perty.
Speaker 3 (23:53):
Yeah, yeah, so Purty slipped just a little bit, and
I'm with you. I sort of felt like last year.
I didn't. I don't feel really worse about him after
last year. But I will say this, like I think
he would be at the very high in Tier two
if they had gone eleven and six instead of six
and eleven. They just couldn't win the games, and so
it's maybe unfair to expect him to overcome, but I
(24:15):
think it affirmed in people's minds that he's a good player,
but as much he's helped by what's around him. As
much as he's helping what's around him. When you play
the forty nine ers, you're not like, oh my gosh,
we got Purty this week, what are we going to do?
You're more like, hey, is McCaffrey planned? Because that makes
a huge difference. We got to watch on it for
Kittle and Kyle Shanan's going to pull your pants down
(24:35):
in the middle of the game because you know, because
he's such a great schemer, you're not like wow factor
on Purty. And so I think that's probably why he
wasn't able to drive better results in the field than
six and eleven. I think that's why he just sort
of stayed where he was or you know, slid back.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
So is Purty's superpower processing or working with Kyle Shanahan.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
I think processing and working with it's a good combination
to have. But I think, like I said, you know,
Jimmy G's top three al time in the yards per attempt?
Is that because Jimmy G is a great yards PERTMP player?
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Probably not obviously shit, And I guess I'll ask, do
you guys, Lean heavily on stats in this Obviously EPA
matters a lot, are there?
Speaker 3 (25:22):
Yeah? Who the voters don't though.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Well they seem you you mentioned it, not the voter. Sorry,
you mentioned that e p A a lot, And I'm curious.
Is that your number one stat now? E p A
as opposed to your yards per attempt? You know the
old school gets down passing yards?
Speaker 3 (25:37):
Yeah, it probably is, But I like to look at
them all in combination, because no single one of them
tells you everything. But when I can see a bunch
of them, I can kind of then see where it's
coming from. So I think EPAS. I'm glad it's been
mainstream because I think it's better than some other stuff.
But it is applient to a quarterback. There's a team
component to that stat too, as there is to all
of them. But I do like it a lot. I
(25:59):
do like it a lot, especially I like it more
on a team level. But I think it's good for
the for the quarterbacks. And still look at other things
like I still look at yards per tent to look
at how quickly they get in above of their hands.
I look at other categories within EPA, like what's their
sack EPA. Right, what's their scrambling EPA? How much? Where
are they getting their value from? And we kind of
(26:20):
know that from watching the games, but it helps to
look at the numbers too.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Yeah, all right, Mike Sando, the Athletic, the King of
quarterback tiers, hey Man, great stuff as always, I'm sure
we'll talk to you during the season. And continued success
over the Athletic buddy.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
Thank you, Jason, appreciate it.
This is Straight Fire with Jason McIntire.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
What is up straight Fire? I am, It's me Jason McIntyre.
Straight Fire or Thursday, August the fourteenth, and we have
another great guest getting you ready for football. Quick programming
note before we get to the guest name So Friday,
I will be hosting The Herd for one hour. We're preempted,
(00:32):
I believe by golf, So I'll be hosting one hour
and it's hosting for one hour is fun because you
get to just fire off takes and it's real fun.
Three hours you got to like do a take. You
probably have to run it back. You got a lot
of guests, there's a lot of moving parts. One hour,
you just show up. You got four things you just
fire when ready. It's really fun. And then next week
final week of vacation for the year, and then I
(00:55):
will you know, reboot and come back. Final week of August,
I will host the Herd. That's always fun. And then
football's here. I mean, we're creeping up so fast. You
guys love Brad Powers. A lot of great feedback, and
I think you're going to like today's guest. His name
is Mike Sando. He has been doing quarterback tiers for
over a decade. It gets everybody riled up. I of
(01:17):
course had issues last year with a couple of things.
I mean, are you really a talking head if you
don't have issues with a list, and then today you
know a little. I still don't understand the lack of
Jalen Hurts love. I mean, the dude just gets it done.
How about this stat that I think Rob g got
this from CBS. Maybe Jalen Hurts was in the same
(01:41):
draft class as Burrow. To Herbert, Jalen Hurts has six
playoff wins. All the other guys in the quarterback class
combined have six. And I know wins are not a
stat except when you want to use them to bolster
your argument. Jay, I get it, fine, It's just Jalen
Hurts is good guys. Anyways, without further ado, let's get
to our guest, the athletics Mike Sando.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
the nation. Catch all of our shows at Foxsports Radio
dot com and within the iHeartRadio app search FSR to
listen live. You know a guy, Jason likes to think
he knows everything when it comes to sports. I know
what sports fans want. But for everything he doesn't, he
(02:26):
knows the guy who does.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Let's just say I know a guy who knows the
guy who knows another guy.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
All right, let's welcome into straight fire. Every year he
does the Quarterback Tiers for the Athletic and it does
massive numbers, and then he goes on a media tour.
Maybe it's just not America, maybe it's globally talking about
quarterback teers. Mike Sando from the Athletic, Mike, how are
you man?
Speaker 3 (02:50):
Good? I have done some Canada a few Canada's Wow.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
I mean, Mike hit me with a saggering stat. I
know he does a lot of podcasts, obviously, the Quarterback
Tiers is huge everywhere. There's not a lot to talk about,
and that you guys picked the perfect week every year, seemingly,
and he said, we're recording this on Wednesday. I'm his
ninth of fifteen podcasts today. Now listen. I do a
lot of media, Mike. I've never done fifteen hits in
(03:16):
a day, and I'm assuming you're doing similar numbers to
that all week. Huh?
Speaker 3 (03:20):
Pretty much? Yeah, pretty much. Friday may be not filled
up yet all the way, but I love it and
we know, we embrace it. And there's just so many
good conversations I've had over the years, and so you know,
it's a twelfth year of doing this. And the nice
thing is, in like different markets, there's different things they
want to ask about, you know, So it's not the
same exact conversation every single time everyone brings something to it,
(03:43):
you'll have something that stands up to you. Then I
haven't thought about it that I haven't.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
I don't know. We've been talking about on the Herd
for a couple of days and for me, the one
and I don't really get triggered a lot is Jalen
or Hurts checking in at ninth Now, Listen, I know
that they had a really good team last year, Mike, Yeah,
whether it was defense, draft, free agent linebacker Bond, like
(04:09):
everything they did, hit Saquon Barkley on the cheap, and
Jalen Hurts was excellent. I mean, you sure false you
can remember the last Super Bowl MVP that was this
disrespected without playing a game after the Super Bowl, he
literally won MVP of the biggest football game of the year.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
He had a great post was Nick Foles the MVP?
Speaker 2 (04:31):
He might have been but he probably wasn't even on
the tiers because I don't think he was starting the
next year.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
Was he? I thought he was because I thought we
looked this up. But your point's well taken, Your points
well taken, like it's he. I think it's in the
quarterback tears. My brain must be a little scrambled. I
can't remember it. But there was something in there on
the Hurt section, like if you've read the is he
is like the most discs you know? Uh, And there's
a couple other guys that you know are foals like
(04:56):
you know that weren't even on Hurts's level in terms
of their career accomplishments. So yeah, so this is something
you know. And Colin Coward asked me about this too.
But I've got something new for you on this one
that I didn't think of until yesterday. Actually, Dave de Shaannt,
who does edited my column and is brilliant, does a
(05:16):
great job. He came up with this. He was thinking
about it Hurts too, and we went back and looked.
So Hurts was higher two years ago coming off a
Super Bowl loss, like he had more Tier one votes
and was higher ranked than he is now. And so
you know, light bulb went on my head, like, why
would that be? And here's why I think it is.
(05:37):
I think when he lost the Super Bowl, he was
earlier in his career and he was perceived correctly to
have made a jump as a passer, because right that
was a concern of him coming out, Hey he's more
of a runner. Can he pass the ball? And he
showed that he made progress as a passer. I think
back then people projected that that would continue, that he
would continue to get better and better as a passer.
(05:59):
And since and you know, they had kind of the
weird year and then they had the year this year
where they took the bat of his hands and they
were a running team with Saquon Barkley. Certainly, after the
first few games last year, he hardly ever had a
game where he was throwing the ball a lot. And
so I don't think that anyone perceives that he's taken
(06:20):
another step as a passer, even though this great team
around him, with good play from him, won. So to
put him where he's at, you're basically saying, you know what,
I think you want dosage of him as a passers
is most appropriate. That if we put more of it
on his arm, that it wouldn't be good for the
team or him. Whereas some of these other guys that
(06:42):
are ahead of him in tier two. We'll see on
Jayden Daniels, but justin Herbert Jared Goff to some degree,
Strout's barely ahead of him. But that people feel as
though either there's more of a ceiling there with them,
or you could load them up more than you could
Hurts and you might get better results.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Okay, that's very fair, and I get that. I'm gonna
assume that he was higher off the Super Bowl because
he was extraordinary, and then they had Saquon Barkley this year,
where a lot of people credited, which is fine, but
this was a nugget in your right up here. Hertz
attempted thirty or more passes in each of the Eagles
(07:18):
first four games than only once right Philly Lean did
into the run game. So I just know Lamar Jackson
doesn't throw the football lot. So I did look up
Lamar Jackson. He threw over thirty times, attempted over thirty
passes eight times. Would you believe they lost five of those?
So the more Lamar threw, they were losing. Now, some
(07:40):
of that kind of in they were playing catch up.
The Ravens defense isn't as good as the Eagles, but
when they threw a lot, Yeah, he wasn't exactly like delivering.
And I think it's a knock on the run quarterbacks.
But I keep coming back to this. He was not
a first round pick. He got benched for TUA in Alabama,
and people can't get that stuff out of their head. Impressions, right, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
I think the way that someone's evaluated coming out does
stay with him a little bit longer. But I think
that some of those like he's improved. Obviously, if we
were going off his college evaluation, he'd be a low three.
So he's a very strong two based on what he's
shown with some of those things that were said about
(08:22):
him coming out are true. There are some limitations to
how much you might want him throwing the ball. We
can certainly play around with stats and say this guy
lost games with throwing more. You know, I think that's interesting,
But you know, Lamar, to me, the biggest step that
Lamar made this year was he was winning games with
(08:43):
a bottom defense for a lot of the year and
the kicker, by the way, was doing bad and that's
a really hard thing to do. And that's what Jane
Daniels going to the championship game with the bottom ten defense,
you know, that's there's not a lot of guys who
do that. So Hurts, you know, this year had a
top five defense, probably right around there, and then probably
the number one offensive line, the number one running back,
(09:05):
maybe a top three group of wide receivers. Would you say,
top five?
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Top top five?
Speaker 3 (09:11):
Yeah, top five group of wide receivers in the league.
So you know, for some of these guys, it is
harder to get the credit. And I go back to
rock parties in that world too, you know, because Kyle Shannan.
If if you call up right now all time leaders
in yards per attempt, it's like, you know, Auto Graham,
it's the third guy is Jimmy G. And then you
(09:32):
go Steve young Is. After that, you get a bunch
of Hall of famers up there and Jimmy G's up there,
and you're like, huh, obviously that has to do with
the offense they're in and what Kyle's doing. And so
there's some pretty lips with some of that.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Too, regarding Hurts. So he's checked in at nine, tied
with CJ. Stroud. I'm just gonna and I know everybody
loves Stroud because he was the number two pick and
then out play Bryce Held by a mile. He was
excellent as a rookie. So in year two his completion
percentage ticked down, his touchdowns ticked down, his interceptions went up,
(10:03):
and he took fourteen more sacks. Yet somehow CJ. Stroud
is right on par with Jalen Hurts. And I know
well Stefan Diggs goes down, Jay, come on, give me
a break. Offensive line was horrendous. Well, okay, we can
make excuses, but the numbers are the numbers, like they
just weren't good. Does that mean CJ. Stroud can't elevate
any everybody when he doesn't have everything in position?
Speaker 3 (10:26):
Yeah, I think I'm with you on that. I'm with
you on that. I think Stroud made such a huge impression,
got twelve Tier one votes after his first year, that
he falls. But they see people do take into account
some of you know, they don't give him all the
blame for that. I think they clearly don't. And and so,
but if you were to sit a year ago that
they were going to fire their OC, who was doing
(10:46):
head coach interviews. I mean, give me a break. Wasn't
that crazy? Sonning?
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Yeah? Let me just quickly ask, when you reach out
to these people, do you get a lot of people
saying I don't want to participate in that, I'm not
doing it.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
No, because they are all people that I know. So
that would happen like if you didn't know who you're calling, right,
I mean that would be like when I first did
this in twenty fourteen, I only had twenty six people
do it because I didn't know as many people, you know,
And now I really had cap it at fifty, you know,
because I.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Has everybody probably wants to be in.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Yeah. Well I wouldn't say that. I mean, it's just
that there's more people that I know that. Yeah, let's
talk about it. It's fun, people enjoy it.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
It is.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
I found moderately interesting that like three years ago, Deshaun
Watson was top twelve. I think Aaron Rodgers I think
was top six. It shifts pretty quickly. I am curious.
Do you think people look more at the season or
body of work, career improvements all that stuff.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
Well, the body of work for sure matters. For like,
for example, Patrick Mahomes has the ultimate body of work.
So he's not anymore producing amazing huge stats seasons, but
he's in the Super Bowl an AFC Chamionship game every year.
Like people aren't reassessing on him, and I don't know,
I'm gonna knock him down, right, So I think the
body of work does come into to play. The more
(12:05):
you have probably the uh, the more staying power you're
gonna you're gonna have in weathering a tough season. Whereas
if you've just come in and you know, let's just
say you only started a couple of games in your
first rookie year and then you have a good year,
you're gonna go way up. By the way, I just
looked something up. I just I just cheated and looked
(12:27):
something up for you here. Okay, on your so in
games with in games where you throw thirty or more passes, Okay,
Lamar Jackson's seventeen touchdowns and two interceptions.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Oh so he had good numbers.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
Yeah, yeah he did. He uh And Jalen Hirsch was
six touchdowns four interceptions in his five games. So you
get the feeling there that you know Lamar was maybe
you know, doing a little more as a passer and
player in those games. Hirsch wasn't terrible in him, but.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
He wasn't putting up Lamar numbers.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
He wasn't putting up the even justin Herbert fifteen touchdowns,
two interceptions in those games.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
So it's interesting because one of our guests who comes
on does this preview for the season, and I haven't
seen this stat anywhere. So the Eagles in the fourth quarter,
they were ahead so often. They ran sixty eight plays
all season trailing in the fourth quarter. That's it. So
(13:29):
they're essentially front running because they're so good early and
Jalen doesn't have to throw or play catch up. And
you know, I know he wasn't good guy ahead a.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
Little bit like Trey Aikman back in his career. Well,
why doesn'n Aickman have better passing stats because they threw touchdowns.
He threw two touchdowns in the first half and then
they just hand it off and they kicked. But what's
he supposed to do throw it fifty times a game? Yeah,
you know.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
And Lamar's defense wasn't an excellent I am curious, you know,
And you don't want to continue to knock them, And
I'm not I'm just this is reality. Josh Allen and
Lamar Jackson, for whatever reason, keep coming up just short
in the playoffs. Now, I'm sure you remember that Bill's
lost in Arrowhead. Like, I get it, Josh Allen tier
one quarterback awesome, but the play calling was so horrible.
(14:15):
You rarely say, man Andy Reid called a horrible game
with Mahomes, Yet we say this for Lamar and Harball
in that playoff game they hosted. I lost money on
the Ravens and then the the McDermott and the Bill.
So I know we want to put the quarterbacks in tears,
but they're really tied to the offensive coordinator and coach,
are they not.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
A little bit? I thought Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson
were also a little sloppy early in those games. Ball
on the ground, just ball handling imprecise early in the games.
And I feel like, you know, maybe Mahomes does that
too and overcomes it. But I just feel like some
of the more established Tier one guys or the real
craftsmen of the job, like, are more on point. Like,
(14:56):
you got to play a tight game, right, There's gonna
be limited possessions. Again, It's Kansas city, they shorten the game,
and so every one of those is important. I feel
like those guys like will squander a possession of the snap,
will go by Lamar and he's suddenly running and dogpiling
on and it's not really Lamar's fault, but it's just
it kind of is, and it's just sort of part
of a less part of a not totally airtight operation,
(15:18):
if that makes sense. And maybe maybe that's a difference
of having an offensive coach as your coordinator, right or
a head coach or I don't know, maybe reading too
much into it, but some of those details, some of
those offensive details, to me, I feel like we're lacking
early in the game in the playoffs for both Buffalo
and Baltimore.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
And it's interesting that both those are not coached by
head coach, not by an offensive guy. Mcdermoy defense, hardball,
special teams. I don't know if that plays.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
In they're good coaches, but yeah, they're good.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Yeah, yeah. Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk
lineup in the nation. Catch all of our shows at
foxsports Radio dot com and within the iHeartRadio app. Search
FSR to listen live.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Let's go a little further down the list. So it
is strange that Trevor Lawrence came into the league with
all this acclaim he's the best prospect since Andrew Locke
started as a true freshman at Clemson, won the Natty,
and he's checking in at eighteenth. And if anything, he's
been sliding here for a couple of years. Where what's
the consensus for Lawrence? Like, what's the problem? Jalen Hurts
has had a different OC every year. Okay, Trevor Lawrence
(16:22):
is on multiple head coaches OC's what's the excuse here?
Speaker 3 (16:28):
So I think that people don't feel like he can
become Tier one, and so one of the reasons is
he's just not consistently accurate and hasn't been. So when
you look at a lot of these guys that are
up the top, they kind of have some something really
special about him, right, something that differentiates them. I think
that Trevor Lawrence is a really good athlete, you know,
(16:50):
for being as tall as he is, probably, but what
what is his superpower? Right? What's he super elite at?
What can he have his hat on that he is
known for? Right? Because we can say with the other
guy's burrow pack, here's the anticipation as a passer, lights
out right the homes beside what he does physically. I mean,
(17:12):
you talk about a guy who just has been squared away, driven, competitor,
almost like a Brady type from the beginning, right, mature,
Josh Allen, you try tackling him. I mean, this guy
is a beast, right Lamar Jackson a different type of
a runner, but oh my gosh, a highlight reel when
we're playing him. We're going to be on the highlights
this week, and it's going to be embarrassing. Even Stafford
(17:35):
from the Pocket Magical. You know, what is it for
Trevor Lawrence? Even the top of Tier three Kyler Murray
electric as a runner. Aaron Rodgers is in a different
category two of though when he's on time, incredible accuracy.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
Trevor Lawrence, what is it?
Speaker 2 (17:54):
What is that's a good guy? I had not thought
about that because Lawrence is listen. I mean he he
hasn't been impressive. I think they covered the spread against
the Chiefs in a playoff game or it was close,
maybe a push and then they had the great comeback
against the Chargers and Herbert, but otherwise, yeah, he hasn't
been great. That being said. The situation again, like, hypothetically,
Mike Trevor Lawrence gets Andy Reid in Kansas City. What
(18:18):
does he have three super Bowls already?
Speaker 1 (18:19):
Two?
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Three?
Speaker 3 (18:22):
Yeah, yeah, I mean it's possible that he would have one,
he'd have a Super Bowl. Maybe that's interesting. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Do you think by the way that Trevor lawnce ever
wins the Super Bowl?
Speaker 3 (18:33):
Oh, I would take the I would take the field
on that. I would say no. But that's not a
slap on him. I mean, look, Matthew Stafford played a
lot of ball too. You got to get in the
right situation. Uh yeah, I mean Aaron Rodgers won one
and he's been unanimous to your one in this thing
six times. Rees won at one one.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
You know, it's tough to it still will be real.
It's it's difficult. In the NBA, you know, you get
stars winning multiple Lebron Curry, all these guys. I don't
think it really works like that in the NFL. Let
me ask you about Kayleb Williams. He's got a new
head coach. A lot has been written about last year
what a disaster was from watching film and all that
fun stuff. Are you surprised he's down there with Bryce Young.
(19:14):
Mike actual quote when he was a senior or his
final year at USC, he could be the face of
the NFL in five years, And now he's right there,
down there with Bryce Young.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
I mean, I suppose that he still could be. But
what was so striking about my conversations with people about
him was a lot of people just questioned his ability
to process and process the game quickly. And he took
a ton of sacks, so that's part of it. But
it was like, where's what's he doing, Where's he going
with the ball? Get it out of her hand? And
that was much more of a concern. The conversation around
(19:48):
him was much more concerning and kind of borderline negative
than it was certainly for Jaden Daniels, bow Nicks, even
Drake May. People would point to the situation he was in.
There wasn't anybody like poking holes and Drake May as
a prospect, whereas I felt like with Kayler Williams there
was some of that is that, hey, he was consensus
number one pick, so he's being held to a really
high standard. Yes, that's part of it, Like he was
(20:10):
the if he was a third round pick, people might
be saying, you know what, I kind of liked some
of the things I saw with Caleb, Right, but you're
number one and people are talking about you like you'd
be the face of the league. Now we're going to say, well,
we're not seeing that. So I think it's going to
be really interesting there with Ben Johnson, who hasn't been
afraid to publicly criticized players and calling the question. He's
talked about the team's body language and Caleb's body language
(20:32):
were not a poem's up team. He's been not afraid
to say things publicly and put guys on notice, other
guys with injuries. You know, he's talked about it. So
what he's feeling and thinking about Kayleb Williams, maybe we'll
be able to tell by the things that he says
this year. I think that will be interesting.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Yeah. I'm not bullish on the Bears at all. This
is a tough one and I only just now noticed it.
So Kirk Cousins checks it twenty five, yeah, and Michael
Pennox is twenty eight.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
Yeah. I can explain.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
That has to be a body of work thing, right, Like, oh,
Kirk Cousins had a good career.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
Yeah, Well, it's a little bit of this. So the
tier definitions are pretty linear Tier one, two, three, and
then in tier four. There's two ways you can get
into it. One way is if you played a long time,
you can be Tier four, like, hey, I don't think
you are a full season starter, Russell Wilson, Right, you
can also be a Tier four like not enough information.
(21:31):
Like so JJ McCarthy got fifty Tier four votes. Everyone's
just sort of saying I need to see more, and
so for somebody like Penix. Penix gets eleven votes in
Tier three after three starts, that's pretty good, but thirty
nine people said, you know what, three starts, I want
to see more. Just put him in four. Well, Kirk
gets twenty four votes in Tier four, but those are
like damning tier four votes for him. That's kind of like,
(21:53):
I don't think you're a starter anymore. So as a
result of that, Cousins ranked a little bit higher. His
body of work wine up counting a little bit for him.
He's falling from a higher spot. Penix is probably starting
lower and just inches up because they'll get three starts.
I would almost guarantee that, you know Pennix and McCarthy
for that matter unless they have really tough years, are
(22:13):
going to move up.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
I was going to ask, who do you think is
the candidate to not just move up, but like jump
two tiers or yeah, I guess too, nobody's gonna jump
three tiers. But I'm extremely bullish. I don't want to
give away all my fantasy stuff. But I think Michael
Penix puts up massive numbers this year in Atlanta. I
think he could jump up to Tier two after the season.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
That's probably a good one. I was going to say
that I would think he would go up to the
high tier three, but he I think he will get
Tier two votes next year. That's probably the best one
to go up two tiers because I don't see anyone
really going from Tier three to Tier one, like I
could see bo Nicks going up into Tier two. I
would almost expect that.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
Oh yeah, what about Drake Make think he can also
make that kind of leap.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
I would guess. My guess would be that he would
move up higher and Tier three. Some of that will
depend on what's around him, maybe, but I'm a little
bit more wait and see. They're not negative, just more
wait and see.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
Got a close with my favorite guy. No not the
Jets quarterback. I'm gonna go with Brock Purty. He it's
interesting because, yeah, and this is a tough one, but
Mahomes lost the Super Bowl to Tampa, and I'll never forget, Well,
he didn't have his tacks, he had no chance, he
was running for his Okay, fair enough, Well, Mike Brock
Party was missing Hall of Fame running back, wide receivers,
(23:36):
like offensive line, defensive injuries, like they were beat the
hell up everywhere. And I don't hear that for Brock Purtty.
I hear the opposite of what I heard from Mahomes.
It was like, well, Party can't elevate anyone. That's just
not how he plays. Talk to me about perty.
Speaker 3 (23:53):
Yeah, yeah, so Purty slipped just a little bit, and
I'm with you. I sort of felt like last year.
I didn't. I don't feel really worse about him after
last year. But I will say this, like I think
he would be at the very high in Tier two
if they had gone eleven and six instead of six
and eleven. They just couldn't win the games, and so
it's maybe unfair to expect him to overcome, but I
(24:15):
think it affirmed in people's minds that he's a good player,
but as much he's helped by what's around him. As
much as he's helping what's around him. When you play
the forty nine ers, you're not like, oh my gosh,
we got Purty this week, what are we going to do?
You're more like, hey, is McCaffrey planned? Because that makes
a huge difference. We got to watch on it for
Kittle and Kyle Shanan's going to pull your pants down
(24:35):
in the middle of the game because you know, because
he's such a great schemer, you're not like wow factor
on Purty. And so I think that's probably why he
wasn't able to drive better results in the field than
six and eleven. I think that's why he just sort
of stayed where he was or you know, slid back.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
So is Purty's superpower processing or working with Kyle Shanahan.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
I think processing and working with it's a good combination
to have. But I think, like I said, you know,
Jimmy G's top three al time in the yards per attempt?
Is that because Jimmy G is a great yards PERTMP player?
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Probably not obviously shit, And I guess I'll ask, do
you guys, Lean heavily on stats in this Obviously EPA
matters a lot, are there?
Speaker 3 (25:22):
Yeah? Who the voters don't though.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Well they seem you you mentioned it, not the voter. Sorry,
you mentioned that e p A a lot, And I'm curious.
Is that your number one stat now? E p A
as opposed to your yards per attempt? You know the
old school gets down passing yards?
Speaker 3 (25:37):
Yeah, it probably is, But I like to look at
them all in combination, because no single one of them
tells you everything. But when I can see a bunch
of them, I can kind of then see where it's
coming from. So I think EPAS. I'm glad it's been
mainstream because I think it's better than some other stuff.
But it is applient to a quarterback. There's a team
component to that stat too, as there is to all
of them. But I do like it a lot. I
(25:59):
do like it a lot, especially I like it more
on a team level. But I think it's good for
the for the quarterbacks. And still look at other things
like I still look at yards per tent to look
at how quickly they get in above of their hands.
I look at other categories within EPA, like what's their
sack EPA. Right, what's their scrambling EPA? How much? Where
are they getting their value from? And we kind of
(26:20):
know that from watching the games, but it helps to
look at the numbers too.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Yeah, all right, Mike Sando, the Athletic, the King of
quarterback tiers, hey Man, great stuff as always, I'm sure
we'll talk to you during the season. And continued success
over the Athletic buddy.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
Thank you, Jason, appreciate it.
Host
Jason McIntyre
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