On today’s episode, Jason provides instant reaction to Game 3 of the NBA Finals. During the show, J-Mac discusses how the Indiana Pacers were able to physically wear down MVP Shai Gilgeous-Alexander and the mighty Oklahoma City Thunder, why he's betting on Indiana to win Game 4 as well and take an insurmountable 3-1 series lead, how Pacers reserve guards TJ McConnell and Benadict Mathurin were able to flip the game in limited minutes, which players OKC can count on to rise to the occasion alongside SGA as the series moves forward, and much more!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
This is straight Fire with Jason McIntire. What is up?
Straight Fire?
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Fire hits me Jason McIntyre, Straight Fire for Thursday, June
the twelfth. Let's go Indiana Pacers with the dub five
point dogs win outright at home with a monster fourth quarter. Listen,
I know it's a finals, not to get that excited about.
(00:33):
That was a great freaking basketball game, just a phenomenal game.
Indiana takes the lead in the second quarter. Okay See
comes back with a big third. J Dubb hits that
dagger at the end of the quarter. They go into
the fourth up five. You're like, oh, okay, so he's
got it. I was ready to write the series off.
I had said, if they win Game three, it's over
because then, okay, so he can lose Game four, it
(00:54):
doesn't matter. They still get two out of three at home.
And I don't see, as I said before the series,
I don't see okay See losing in seven. I just don't.
That's that is a tough place to play. I mean
they throttled Denver like, it's just a tough place to play,
okay See, and Indiana had to have it, and they
got it in dramatic fashion. One sixteen one oh seven.
So a couple big picture things that big time jump out. Okay,
(01:19):
fourth quarter Indiana thirty two to eighteen, and okase looked
outright gased. You could see it in the third quarter.
Both teams, you know, big first half, both of them
were over sixty points and you could see third quarter
start to slow down. And this is what I saw.
I heard Doris Burke say, boy, they've had seven different
defenders on SGA. She said this early in the fourth quarter.
(01:41):
I was like seven. And then I started to write
in my notes, I'm like, okay, well they got em
hard Nie Smith Halle, oh shuck. They got Ben Matheren,
who had the game of his life. You had TJ McConnell,
you had Ben Shephard, and I think the other one
was Obi Toppin, but it might have been Siakham. Either way,
seven defenders, and then you watched the way they defended
SGA and listen, he's the VP, he's great. He made
(02:04):
one basket in the fourth quarter, his fourth quarter one
of two free throws, one basket on two shots and
one turnover. He was tired, guys, And not only did
seven different guys go at him, they picked him up
full court. And this has kind of been one of
the themes of the postseason. Okay, we've seen teams repeatedly do this.
(02:25):
I've got young legs, I've got a bench. I'm picking
you up full court. I'm gonna slowly but surely wear
you down. You don't just get to free dribble up
the court. Right, and you watch SGA in the fourth
you're like, damn, he looks hard. But it wasn't just
picking him up full court. If you watch the actions
that Indiano was running, they were running right at chet
(02:46):
Holmgren with the initial screen and the second screen was
against SGA. He was working his butt off at both ends.
And I know he's a good two way player. He's
not a great two way player. Okay, let's not put him.
He's not Scottie Pippin defensively, Okay, he's not Klay Thompson,
who was a lethal shooter and one of the best
defensive guards in the league. He's just not at that level.
(03:07):
He's a good defender, but it wears you down when
you've got to create everything and then go bust your
hump defending. Couple other numbers for SGA, his magic number
is can he get to the free throw line eight
or more times? I think they have one loss in
the postseason when he gets to the line eight or
more times. The free throw mergint he only got to
the line six times. And then the kicker six turnovers
(03:30):
for SGA, which is a definite giveaway. I mean he
had four assistants six turnovers. The Okase Thunder had seventeen
turnovers sixteen assists. That's that's not okay. See basketball, Now,
we did give you this yesterday, hey man. Game three
is their struggle game. Struggled to Memphis, even though they
got the win because John Rant got hurt, lost against
(03:51):
Denver and then got just blitzed, like gave the game
way to Minnesota. Obviously, they were in this one, and
they had the lead going into the fourth and they
just ran out of Now, if you want to get
excited as a Pacers fan, only one day of rest
between these two and look at this, Rob I was
surprised when I looked at the box score. SGA played
(04:12):
the most minutes in the game forty two. After that
JDub thirty six, Chet thirty five, lou Door thirty six.
But SGA played a game high forty two minutes, Halliburton
led the Pacers at thirty six. Now I know people
are saying, Jason, these guys are young. What is three
minutes here for? This is playoff NBA Finals intensity basketball,
(04:34):
totally completely different than a regular season game. Halliburton, they
were able to come back in the fourth. This is crazy.
Halliburton started the fourth on the bench and it was
TJ McConnell, and it was Ben Matheren bringing him back.
Then they put Siaka on the bench and brought an
Obi Toppin and with siakam out, Obi Topon goes off.
(04:56):
He had to dunk back. Folks, listen to these bench numbers.
Obi Toppin plus eighteen, Ben Mathern plus sixteen, and TJ McConnell,
who stolen in bounds pass. You gotta love that plus twelve.
They obliterated the OKC bench. They basically give OKAC they're
(05:18):
on medicine. Hey, you know what, we're coming out, We're
coming hard, We're coming for forty eight, and we've got
the crowd were juiced up. They weren't really hitting their threes.
This was one of their worst three point shooting nights
of the season, but they made three of five. Yeah,
three or five in the fourth, which was huge. And Oka, see,
I know, I know you guys don't want to hear this.
(05:38):
They wilted under the Indiana pressure. Now I don't know
how you spin this forward. But if Indiana gets came
four and there will be pressure on Okay, See is
just the game where I don't know. You know, there's
j Dubb who had four turnovers and he looked uncertain dry.
I just I don't totally believe in him yet like
(05:58):
everyone else. We had fur turnovers, three assists. He's not
comfortable with the ball. Chet holmgen zero for six on threes.
He had some good looks. Miles Turner ends up swatting
one in his face. By the way, Miles Turner ill
under the weather. According to Rick Carlisle did not shoot
a Grade three of eleven, but defensively five blocks and
(06:19):
Rick Carlos said he's probably not gonna practice on Thursday
because he's not feeling good. But it doesn't really matter
when you can get quality minutes out of your bench.
And like I mean, Rob Aaron Wiggins was one of
the heroes in Game two. Came off the bench splashing
three is left and right ten minutes over two. This
to me is Dagnaalt not trusting his guys and desperately
(06:41):
wanting this game. That's why he played him any minutes,
and frankly they wore down on the fourth quarter. I
think Indiana is clearly onto something with picking up full court.
But the only the best solution for OKC is, hey,
we need other guys to score, so SGA doesn't have
to score, create and then play heavy minutes and play defense.
(07:02):
And I know, hey, man, that's basketball. You gotta play
at both ends. Well if you're able to rest, because
I don't know, Isaiah Joe comes in his hitting threes.
He did make two, but he only played four minutes. Weirdly,
it didn't look like they trusted their bench. Okac's bench
with a robust eighteen points Okay. Indiana got twenty seven
(07:25):
from Matheren, ten from TJ mcconnoff, four from Shepherd and
eight from Obi Toppin. I love what I saw. I
know OKAC hasn't lost back to back games and forever
zig zag Gary probably says Okay bounces back here. But
for being honest, Rob, I thought Indiana had to have this,
and I like their role players at home and I
(07:46):
am leaning toward a Friday Night Pacers win at home
to go up three one.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
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Speaker 3 (08:04):
Live, Wow, j Max, Stay in true to form, just
hating on OKC all the way down the line. I
love it, I love it well. First off, the Indiana Pacers.
That finishing kick was a championship level finishing kick that
was not just hey they're a solid team. Hey they're plucky.
(08:25):
Hey they are a team of destiny. No, no, no. What
they did in that fourth quarter was is something that
you would see from a Lebron James led fourth quarter team,
a STEPH KD fourth quarter shock and pick whoever your
favorite team is right in that fourth quarter for them
to walk them down the way they did. You mentioned
they win at thirty two to eighteen. These are my
(08:46):
two favorite numbers of that fourth quarter. Though they forced
five turnovers in the fourth, they had five block shots defensively,
three of them were Miles Turner on Chet specifically, So
what they did in that fourth quarter has to be commended.
They made all the plays that Okac did not. They
(09:09):
looked like a team quite frankly, that is comfortable in
these kind of games. Okay, see, as great as they've
been all season, as great as they've been in this playoffs,
they haven't been in a lot of close games. They've
been blowing the doors off of everybody all season. And
as part of the reason why we had that conversation
after game one, you know about their depth, and it's like, well,
who is your five, because we don't know. You haven't
(09:31):
been in this position very often. And Indiana did exactly
what Indiana does all the way down to I saw
your tweet about it a BYuT a minute left and
and Tyre's Halliburton, rather than run clock, throws it up
ahead to see, okay, I can get to the lay
up to go up eight. Most teams would slow it
down there, conventional wisdoms that slow it down there. But
they are so used to doing what they do that
(09:54):
they know what their identity is like they are the
Indiana Pacers are doing what the Pacers do, and for them,
you gotta feel great hitting into Game four now, if
I'm gonna do half the glass half empty, approach to
it though, obviously the big stars of the game, TJ McConnell,
(10:15):
Ben Mathern. I mean, I saw a stat about TJ
McConnell that I had to look over four different times.
I actually had a cross reference it with several Twitter
accounts because like, there's no way that this could be true.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
TJ McConnell in fifteen minutes had ten points, five assists
here in my favorite part five steals. The first bench
player ever to have numbers like that in a finals game. Okay,
but obviously the big story Ben Mathern twenty five points
off the bench. Here's a list of players in NBA
(10:51):
history who have scored twenty five plus points off the
bench in a finals game this century. Ben Mathern, Jason
Terry monogenobly like he's an elite company. Now we're yeah.
The problem though again, if you are taking the negative
the pessive, if you're taking an OKAC positive approach. Men
(11:15):
Mathern and the Inanda Pacers have played nineteen playoff games now,
including Game three. He's had five games where he scored
at least nineteen points, like, of course he did last
nine in Game three. He's also had seven games where
he scored less than five, So can you count on
him to have this kind of performance again in game four?
(11:37):
History says no. And will we see Pascal Siakam finally
get unlocked because he hasn't really been himself so far
in this series. I'm interested to see what Pacers player
is gonna go and and really step up because Tyre's
Halliburton had an out lighter game for him, like, he
hasn't been this aggressive so far in this series. So
(11:59):
you know, we'll see which one of these guys steps
up again. To your point, role players usually play better
at home, and even still, you gotta feel great if your.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Indiana Halle heard you trashing Hi bron Be at twenty
two to eleven and nine. I mean he had a
phenomenal good Now, this is crazy. He hasn't attempted a
free throw in the series. Is that right? Because he
did not attempt one in Game three? Yeah, your point
guard who is a driving machine and average three three
throws a game against the Knicks and average three against
the Bucks and average three against the Cast. Zero free
(12:30):
throw attempts for Halle in the series. Now, Matherick is interesting.
This guy was a big time recruit right ghost to
Arizona for a year. If memory serves, they were really good.
They had an amazing NCAA tournament game and got upset.
Matherin saves it for the biggest moment. So it was
game four, up two to one against the Knicks. You
had to have it tough game. Matherin goes for twenty
(12:52):
points off the bench, just a dagger to the Knicks,
and that's kind of what he does. I don't know, man.
I know people love Cason Wallace who's now starting for OKC,
and he's a dog defender. Is he better than Ben Mathern.
I'm being honest, like, I know, Matherin isn't that great
of a defender. Although I did see a stat he
(13:13):
held sga Is scoreless in their minutes in game one.
The data is not out yet for what happened in
game three. But if Ben Matheren is a plus defender
and he's a bucket, why can't he be Victor Oladipo
rob in the NBA Victor Oldep By the way, it
was all NBA guy before the injuries. I like a
lot about Matherin and when you can lean on him
(13:35):
on off the bench for let's see twenty two minutes
and Hallie doesn't have to play a lot. And if
Nismith is in foul trouble, oh well, if Nemar's in
foul trouble, we got TJ. McConnell, we got Matheren. I
don't know, man, the Pacers are crazy and let me
just toss this out there if you're the Knicks, and
I don't want to make this about the Knicks, but
(13:55):
this is relevant to the game. You now watch the
Pacers go up two to one on Mighty okay see,
which was minus seven hundred before the series, and you
fired your coach and you tried to get permission to
speak with Chris Finch and you were denied and email
Udoka and you were denied. And Jason kidding you were denied.
Are you like, ooh we do we do? We f
(14:16):
up here dumping Tom Thibodeaux for losing to the Pacers
because the papers are now beating okay see. And last thing,
Rob when New York had Game one and Indiana came
back and stole it with Nathanith heroics and the Halliburton
shot at the buzzer. New York was chasing the rest
(14:36):
of the series. It feels to me like, Okac is
now chasing because of what Halliburton did in Game one. Okay,
see you need a game two and Indie kind of
rolled over. You got this, you're at home, We'll give
it to you. And I don't think they actually punted
the game. You just the effort isn't ad like it
is when you're desperate in your life's on the line.
(14:59):
Game three, Indiana gets to win, and now, Okase, he's chasing.
And honestly, I'm just gonna remind you guys. Game four
in Denver, down two to one, the Nuggets led by
nine in the fourth quarter, Lou Dort, I'm pretty sure
hit three straight threes and Denver ran out of gas.
Rob you know who's not gonna run out of gas,
(15:19):
the Indiana Pacers.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
That's a good point. I'll tell you what, Ben Matherine
quickly before we get to the rest of the series.
You'll appreciate this. As a Lakers fan like me, there
were a lot of Pacer fans. There was a national
conversation on some of the you know, the NBA heavy
podcasts that I listened to. Even last year, Indiana fans
were over Ben matherin the Ben Mathern experience. They saw
(15:42):
the talent, but the way that he plays does not
necessarily fit their style. Right Like, there are a lot
of ball movement player movement. No one really holds it
too long, and it's spearheaded by Tyre's Halliburn. We've famously
said his usage. Ray is in the twenties low twenties,
and he's one of the best cards in the NBA.
What we saw in game three reminded me of the
(16:06):
infamous Lonnie Walker game when the Lakers played the Uh. Now,
of course Math is a much better player than one.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
A lot of people hold up, what's it was that Memphis?
Speaker 3 (16:14):
No? No, that was Golden State. Yeah say uh to
go up three to one in game four, that's right,
good wo And it was a guy that you weren't
necessarily counting on. You want the ball to be in
Lebron and and AD's hands and maybe Austin Reegis and
those that do all the cooking. And that's how we
win games Indiana. The way they win games ball movement,
player movement. Hit a lot of open threes like that.
(16:37):
They caused chaos and confusion on the on the defense,
Ben mather doesn't play like that. Ben Matherin is like,
I'm gonna go get a bucket, give me the ball,
I'm gonna attack a close out, I'm gonna attack a
pick and roll, and this is what I do. It's
probably why it doesn't play a whole lot of minutes
because it kind of you know, if he's not playing well,
it can really junk up their offense. But we saw
(16:59):
a great mathroom performance a game three. As far as
what we're talking about with game four now again full discloser,
I picked Okac in four, so like, what do I know,
I'm looking really terrible as there's a lot of people,
but Okac last I checked. You know this. Of course,
game two the numbers have switched a little bit because
they only won by sixteen. Awfu of Lost Day were undefeated,
(17:19):
winning games by twenty entering the NBA Finals, so that
number is probably now at nineteen and a half eighteen.
So I am fully expecting Okac to come out. And
as you mentioned, there's something to be said about a
desperate team. There was people on saying on Twitter that
in Game three, the way that Indiana approached the game
(17:40):
with the full court press basically the entire game, right,
they were their pressuring ball the entire game, the way
TJ McConnell, the spark plug, he gave, the effort that
you got from Miles Turner, and especially in that fourth quarter,
like they played it like it was a game seven,
like they knew the numbers say if we don't win
this game, eighty percent chance we're gonna lose. I think
you're gonna get that flip side effort from Okac that
(18:02):
it's so hard for Indiana, even though they are at home.
They want to go up three to one to match
the desperation of a team that objectively is a better
team than you are. So I think, okayc rolls in.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Game, rolls double digits.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
Oh stat say they're gonna win it by eighteen plus.
So yes, give me double digits for sure.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Interesting. I mean, huh, that's it. I did not anticipate
that Rob.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
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listen live.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Here's my thing, Chet Homeward, I don't listen. He's young
and he's thinned. I don't know that he has that
dog in him. And I like chet Homeward, right, Jay Dubb,
I don't know that I believe in him. I think
they're probably gonna go, hey, Shay, you got to bring
us home, and with seven different guys guarding you all
over the court, and you've got to go for what
(19:03):
thirty five to forty? I just think that's too much
to ask. I don't know who steps up. Remember lou
Dort hit four threes for them last night? Okay, chet
oh for six? Like is lou Dort? Can you rely
on it? May he hit four threes? I think in
Game one he's streaky. I just I don't know if
they got it in him. And I like where Carlisle
(19:25):
would this be? I think they were what minus or
they were plus five thousand before the season, some insane number.
The Indiana Pacers, yep. Do you think people are sitting
at home like NBA team saying, you know, we just
need to get younger, and like when Bronni's on the court,
he needs to be picking up someone full court. Now,
you don't expect the veterans like a Lebron a Luca, Well,
(19:48):
Luca's not that much a veteran, but older guys you
don't expect that, But maybe it's time to be like, hey, Bronni,
we need we need let's see how many he played. Yeah,
we need eighteen minutes out of you a night. We
need Ben Shephard minutes. You know, you don't have the
size or length, but you have the tenacity. You got
the young legs. We need that at you. Like, I'm
up for the Lakers going after Chris Paul in place
(20:08):
of Gabe Vincent. Chris Paul want to try to get
a ring on the cheap. Maybe I don't know, but
like he's not gonna be picking up full court for
eighteen minutes. I don't think he's Could he give you
fifteen minutes of TJ McConnell. Could Chris Paul do that?
Maybe he's older, but I think you've got to Is
this like the radical rethinking or is this just a
(20:30):
one off random because we saw Minnesota do this, We
saw Indiana do it to the NIXT. Remember they would
pick up Bruns in full court and just warm down,
you know, and the way they're wearing down SGA like
Rob he was the MVP of the league. People were
ready to crown him. You put him in the same scent,
not you, But people were saying, oh, well, mid range Kobe,
and only four guys have won MVP finals, MVP and
(20:54):
led the league in scoring, and he's in that class.
I thought I could have sworn. I don't know if
it's for sure. I heard someone on an NBA podcast
this week say, well, if Sga wins the title an MVP,
he's a Hall of Famer, And I'm like, what are
we doing? What's happening here? And the end of a
pedishers are basically saying, if that that's not happened, not
(21:15):
on our watch, and to watch them just dog him. Listen,
this is the kind of game where Okase struggled in
the fourth Kevin Durant would have been freaking perfect for them,
wouldn't you have?
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Oh yeah, he didn't bucket. So as far as them
picking up full court and again like, if you can
do that, great. The reason why it's more beneficial, especially
against a team like Oka see and to a lester
well to a greater extent, but in the previous series
against team like Jay with the Knicks with Jalen Runson
is they don't necessarily have a great secondary creator like
(21:50):
j dubb has kind of been thrust into that role,
and I thought he was really good, especially in the
second and third quarter. I thought he was awesome. But
you can't say that, you know, breaking down a defense
and necessarily like his strength, right, Like, that's not necessarily
what he does. As a team. OKAC only had sixteen
assists on thirty seven basket. Yes, that's not offense like that,
(22:11):
that's not necessarily what they do. Now, if you try
doing that against the team that has, you know, bring
it back to the Lakers, if you have Luca, Lebron
and Austin, you cannot do that. There's too many guys. Like,
you can't pressure like that because you're not gonna really
wear anyone down because they have three guys who can
carry the load. And for OKC, for Indiana, it's hard
(22:37):
to say that this is the new blueprint because nobody
else plays the way they play. That's a good point, right,
Like they are very strategic with keeping their minutes down
because they play at such a frenetic pace because they
know they would run their guys into the ground if
they played them the way you would normally expect your
(22:58):
uper echelon guys to play. I don't even I can't
even say for sure that their defenders are like world
beater defenders.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
They're really good.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
I'm not saying taking away from them, but it's not
like they have you go man for man down the roster.
Nie Smith, Nemhard McConnell.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
Math like whoever.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Those guys are not as good defensively as the OKC
guys point blank period. If OKC wanted to pressure Indiana.
The problem though, is Tyre's Halliburn doesn't handle the ball
like Shia. He's gonna kid it ahead, he's gonna pass around,
And so by the time you pressure all these guys,
it won't matter because the ball will be at the
free throw line by the time you really got into them,
(23:41):
you know what I mean. So it's just it's a
styles make fights kind of thing, and right now that
this is a great fight that we're watching here in this.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Finals, so we could wrap rob I know, I think
I said the number one was when you're tied at
one and you go up to one, you win seventy
nine percent of the time. It might be eighty. I
saw seventy nine on ESPN eighty on that this gamble
in place, Poly Market right, which had the election. Interestingly,
(24:08):
poly Market only has the Pacers with a thirty five
percent chance to win the series. So something's crazy out
of whack. Okay, I will remind everybody. The last one
that I could find I just quickly went through the
finals to win Game three and lose the series was
Lebron's Heat against the MAVs, an unbelievable series which a
(24:31):
lot of people have forgotten except for Lebron. The Heat game.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
You know, Lebron against the Warriors did that too the
first year when Kyrie.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Was But they lost that series.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
Right, yeah, they went up to one and then lost.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
Oh yes, yes, oh good point, good point because Curry.
Curry had that game. I think it was the thirty
seven in Game four or something. Yeah, okay, so I
missed that one. But the Heat, Lebron's Heat eat the MAVs.
Then lost to the MAVs, then win Game three in
a close one. But Game four was the mysterious game
that really deserves its own Like what on Earth happened here?
(25:10):
That was the game where Lebron was three for eleven
shooting and had eight points just like this was to
go up three to one and Dallas storms back at
the end in one of the bigger upsets, and Miami
never won another game. Obviously, that could happen. Indiana certainly
is no HEATLS one point zero, that's for sure. But
(25:33):
could could Sga pull a Dirk Davitsky? I don't know.
We know Sga is a scoring machine. It's just a
little different because Dirk he's not getting pressure. He's just
jogging down the court getting to a spot. You know,
SGA's got to initiate the offense, and they're going at
him relentlessly. I love. I thought Rick Carlov coached a
masterpiece and we'll see a little bit of turnaround time
(25:55):
here for Dagnault man, you know, can you By the way,
so my son finished eighth grade and they have this
big celebration in California. I didn't know it was the thing,
but whatever. Do you remember your promotion from eighth grade?
Speaker 3 (26:07):
Rob?
Speaker 2 (26:07):
I do, Yeah, apparently it's big. It was nothing where
I grew up in Virginia, and I happen to be
sitting next to a buddy and I totally forgot this.
He's from Oklahoma and he's a huge OKC fan. So
his son, who's in sixth grade goes, dude, my dad
listens to straight Fire every morning. I was like, oh,
I forgot he's an Okay Sea guy. And then his
(26:29):
dad shows up and he's like, man, I was going
to get you a jersey. I'm like, oh, don't get
me an sgh. He goes, no, Austin Reeves because you
can't stop talking about him. He goes you and Rob
love you. So Austin Reeves. I was like, listen, man,
Austin Reeves is the man. But listen, I know I
bashed Okay See a lot. If they show up at
Game four, they got the series. Obviously they're not losing
(26:49):
two of three. At home, I feel confident saying Matt
PACER's got to win Game four on Friday. All right,
That's that's it for today. I think this is that
series just got fascinating. I hope you guys feel the
same way. Back tomorrow
This is straight Fire with Jason McIntire. What is up?
Straight Fire?
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Fire hits me Jason McIntyre, Straight Fire for Thursday, June
the twelfth. Let's go Indiana Pacers with the dub five
point dogs win outright at home with a monster fourth quarter. Listen,
I know it's a finals, not to get that excited about.
(00:33):
That was a great freaking basketball game, just a phenomenal game.
Indiana takes the lead in the second quarter. Okay See
comes back with a big third. J Dubb hits that
dagger at the end of the quarter. They go into
the fourth up five. You're like, oh, okay, so he's
got it. I was ready to write the series off.
I had said, if they win Game three, it's over
because then, okay, so he can lose Game four, it
(00:54):
doesn't matter. They still get two out of three at home.
And I don't see, as I said before the series,
I don't see okay See losing in seven. I just don't.
That's that is a tough place to play. I mean
they throttled Denver like, it's just a tough place to play,
okay See, and Indiana had to have it, and they
got it in dramatic fashion. One sixteen one oh seven.
So a couple big picture things that big time jump out. Okay,
(01:19):
fourth quarter Indiana thirty two to eighteen, and okase looked
outright gased. You could see it in the third quarter.
Both teams, you know, big first half, both of them
were over sixty points and you could see third quarter
start to slow down. And this is what I saw.
I heard Doris Burke say, boy, they've had seven different
defenders on SGA. She said this early in the fourth quarter.
(01:41):
I was like seven. And then I started to write
in my notes, I'm like, okay, well they got em
hard Nie Smith Halle, oh shuck. They got Ben Matheren,
who had the game of his life. You had TJ McConnell,
you had Ben Shephard, and I think the other one
was Obi Toppin, but it might have been Siakham. Either way,
seven defenders, and then you watched the way they defended
SGA and listen, he's the VP, he's great. He made
(02:04):
one basket in the fourth quarter, his fourth quarter one
of two free throws, one basket on two shots and
one turnover. He was tired, guys, And not only did
seven different guys go at him, they picked him up
full court. And this has kind of been one of
the themes of the postseason. Okay, we've seen teams repeatedly do this.
(02:25):
I've got young legs, I've got a bench. I'm picking
you up full court. I'm gonna slowly but surely wear
you down. You don't just get to free dribble up
the court. Right, and you watch SGA in the fourth
you're like, damn, he looks hard. But it wasn't just
picking him up full court. If you watch the actions
that Indiano was running, they were running right at chet
(02:46):
Holmgren with the initial screen and the second screen was
against SGA. He was working his butt off at both ends.
And I know he's a good two way player. He's
not a great two way player. Okay, let's not put him.
He's not Scottie Pippin defensively, Okay, he's not Klay Thompson,
who was a lethal shooter and one of the best
defensive guards in the league. He's just not at that level.
(03:07):
He's a good defender, but it wears you down when
you've got to create everything and then go bust your
hump defending. Couple other numbers for SGA, his magic number
is can he get to the free throw line eight
or more times? I think they have one loss in
the postseason when he gets to the line eight or
more times. The free throw mergint he only got to
the line six times. And then the kicker six turnovers
(03:30):
for SGA, which is a definite giveaway. I mean he
had four assistants six turnovers. The Okase Thunder had seventeen
turnovers sixteen assists. That's that's not okay. See basketball, Now,
we did give you this yesterday, hey man. Game three
is their struggle game. Struggled to Memphis, even though they
got the win because John Rant got hurt, lost against
(03:51):
Denver and then got just blitzed, like gave the game
way to Minnesota. Obviously, they were in this one, and
they had the lead going into the fourth and they
just ran out of Now, if you want to get
excited as a Pacers fan, only one day of rest
between these two and look at this, Rob I was
surprised when I looked at the box score. SGA played
(04:12):
the most minutes in the game forty two. After that
JDub thirty six, Chet thirty five, lou Door thirty six.
But SGA played a game high forty two minutes, Halliburton
led the Pacers at thirty six. Now I know people
are saying, Jason, these guys are young. What is three
minutes here for? This is playoff NBA Finals intensity basketball,
(04:34):
totally completely different than a regular season game. Halliburton, they
were able to come back in the fourth. This is crazy.
Halliburton started the fourth on the bench and it was
TJ McConnell, and it was Ben Matheren bringing him back.
Then they put Siaka on the bench and brought an
Obi Toppin and with siakam out, Obi Topon goes off.
(04:56):
He had to dunk back. Folks, listen to these bench numbers.
Obi Toppin plus eighteen, Ben Mathern plus sixteen, and TJ McConnell,
who stolen in bounds pass. You gotta love that plus twelve.
They obliterated the OKC bench. They basically give OKAC they're
(05:18):
on medicine. Hey, you know what, we're coming out, We're
coming hard, We're coming for forty eight, and we've got
the crowd were juiced up. They weren't really hitting their threes.
This was one of their worst three point shooting nights
of the season, but they made three of five. Yeah,
three or five in the fourth, which was huge. And Oka, see,
I know, I know you guys don't want to hear this.
(05:38):
They wilted under the Indiana pressure. Now I don't know
how you spin this forward. But if Indiana gets came
four and there will be pressure on Okay, See is
just the game where I don't know. You know, there's
j Dubb who had four turnovers and he looked uncertain dry.
I just I don't totally believe in him yet like
(05:58):
everyone else. We had fur turnovers, three assists. He's not
comfortable with the ball. Chet holmgen zero for six on threes.
He had some good looks. Miles Turner ends up swatting
one in his face. By the way, Miles Turner ill
under the weather. According to Rick Carlisle did not shoot
a Grade three of eleven, but defensively five blocks and
(06:19):
Rick Carlos said he's probably not gonna practice on Thursday
because he's not feeling good. But it doesn't really matter
when you can get quality minutes out of your bench.
And like I mean, Rob Aaron Wiggins was one of
the heroes in Game two. Came off the bench splashing
three is left and right ten minutes over two. This
to me is Dagnaalt not trusting his guys and desperately
(06:41):
wanting this game. That's why he played him any minutes,
and frankly they wore down on the fourth quarter. I
think Indiana is clearly onto something with picking up full court.
But the only the best solution for OKC is, hey,
we need other guys to score, so SGA doesn't have
to score, create and then play heavy minutes and play defense.
(07:02):
And I know, hey, man, that's basketball. You gotta play
at both ends. Well if you're able to rest, because
I don't know, Isaiah Joe comes in his hitting threes.
He did make two, but he only played four minutes. Weirdly,
it didn't look like they trusted their bench. Okac's bench
with a robust eighteen points Okay. Indiana got twenty seven
(07:25):
from Matheren, ten from TJ mcconnoff, four from Shepherd and
eight from Obi Toppin. I love what I saw. I
know OKAC hasn't lost back to back games and forever
zig zag Gary probably says Okay bounces back here. But
for being honest, Rob, I thought Indiana had to have this,
and I like their role players at home and I
(07:46):
am leaning toward a Friday Night Pacers win at home
to go up three one.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
the nation. Catch all of our shows at foxsports Radio
dot com and within the iHeartRadio app search FSR to listen.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
Live, Wow, j Max, Stay in true to form, just
hating on OKC all the way down the line. I
love it, I love it well. First off, the Indiana Pacers.
That finishing kick was a championship level finishing kick that
was not just hey they're a solid team. Hey they're plucky.
(08:25):
Hey they are a team of destiny. No, no, no. What
they did in that fourth quarter was is something that
you would see from a Lebron James led fourth quarter team,
a STEPH KD fourth quarter shock and pick whoever your
favorite team is right in that fourth quarter for them
to walk them down the way they did. You mentioned
they win at thirty two to eighteen. These are my
(08:46):
two favorite numbers of that fourth quarter. Though they forced
five turnovers in the fourth, they had five block shots defensively,
three of them were Miles Turner on Chet specifically, So
what they did in that fourth quarter has to be commended.
They made all the plays that Okac did not. They
(09:09):
looked like a team quite frankly, that is comfortable in
these kind of games. Okay, see, as great as they've
been all season, as great as they've been in this playoffs,
they haven't been in a lot of close games. They've
been blowing the doors off of everybody all season. And
as part of the reason why we had that conversation
after game one, you know about their depth, and it's like, well,
who is your five, because we don't know. You haven't
(09:31):
been in this position very often. And Indiana did exactly
what Indiana does all the way down to I saw
your tweet about it a BYuT a minute left and
and Tyre's Halliburton, rather than run clock, throws it up
ahead to see, okay, I can get to the lay
up to go up eight. Most teams would slow it
down there, conventional wisdoms that slow it down there. But
they are so used to doing what they do that
(09:54):
they know what their identity is like they are the
Indiana Pacers are doing what the Pacers do, and for them,
you gotta feel great hitting into Game four now, if
I'm gonna do half the glass half empty, approach to
it though, obviously the big stars of the game, TJ McConnell,
(10:15):
Ben Mathern. I mean, I saw a stat about TJ
McConnell that I had to look over four different times.
I actually had a cross reference it with several Twitter
accounts because like, there's no way that this could be true.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
TJ McConnell in fifteen minutes had ten points, five assists
here in my favorite part five steals. The first bench
player ever to have numbers like that in a finals game. Okay,
but obviously the big story Ben Mathern twenty five points
off the bench. Here's a list of players in NBA
(10:51):
history who have scored twenty five plus points off the
bench in a finals game this century. Ben Mathern, Jason
Terry monogenobly like he's an elite company. Now we're yeah.
The problem though again, if you are taking the negative
the pessive, if you're taking an OKAC positive approach. Men
(11:15):
Mathern and the Inanda Pacers have played nineteen playoff games now,
including Game three. He's had five games where he scored
at least nineteen points, like, of course he did last
nine in Game three. He's also had seven games where
he scored less than five, So can you count on
him to have this kind of performance again in game four?
(11:37):
History says no. And will we see Pascal Siakam finally
get unlocked because he hasn't really been himself so far
in this series. I'm interested to see what Pacers player
is gonna go and and really step up because Tyre's
Halliburton had an out lighter game for him, like, he
hasn't been this aggressive so far in this series. So
(11:59):
you know, we'll see which one of these guys steps
up again. To your point, role players usually play better
at home, and even still, you gotta feel great if your.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Indiana Halle heard you trashing Hi bron Be at twenty
two to eleven and nine. I mean he had a
phenomenal good Now, this is crazy. He hasn't attempted a
free throw in the series. Is that right? Because he
did not attempt one in Game three? Yeah, your point
guard who is a driving machine and average three three
throws a game against the Knicks and average three against
the Bucks and average three against the Cast. Zero free
(12:30):
throw attempts for Halle in the series. Now, Matherick is interesting.
This guy was a big time recruit right ghost to
Arizona for a year. If memory serves, they were really good.
They had an amazing NCAA tournament game and got upset.
Matherin saves it for the biggest moment. So it was
game four, up two to one against the Knicks. You
had to have it tough game. Matherin goes for twenty
(12:52):
points off the bench, just a dagger to the Knicks,
and that's kind of what he does. I don't know, man.
I know people love Cason Wallace who's now starting for OKC,
and he's a dog defender. Is he better than Ben Mathern.
I'm being honest, like, I know, Matherin isn't that great
of a defender. Although I did see a stat he
(13:13):
held sga Is scoreless in their minutes in game one.
The data is not out yet for what happened in
game three. But if Ben Matheren is a plus defender
and he's a bucket, why can't he be Victor Oladipo
rob in the NBA Victor Oldep By the way, it
was all NBA guy before the injuries. I like a
lot about Matherin and when you can lean on him
(13:35):
on off the bench for let's see twenty two minutes
and Hallie doesn't have to play a lot. And if
Nismith is in foul trouble, oh well, if Nemar's in
foul trouble, we got TJ. McConnell, we got Matheren. I
don't know, man, the Pacers are crazy and let me
just toss this out there if you're the Knicks, and
I don't want to make this about the Knicks, but
(13:55):
this is relevant to the game. You now watch the
Pacers go up two to one on Mighty okay see,
which was minus seven hundred before the series, and you
fired your coach and you tried to get permission to
speak with Chris Finch and you were denied and email
Udoka and you were denied. And Jason kidding you were denied.
Are you like, ooh we do we do? We f
(14:16):
up here dumping Tom Thibodeaux for losing to the Pacers
because the papers are now beating okay see. And last thing,
Rob when New York had Game one and Indiana came
back and stole it with Nathanith heroics and the Halliburton
shot at the buzzer. New York was chasing the rest
(14:36):
of the series. It feels to me like, Okac is
now chasing because of what Halliburton did in Game one. Okay,
see you need a game two and Indie kind of
rolled over. You got this, you're at home, We'll give
it to you. And I don't think they actually punted
the game. You just the effort isn't ad like it
is when you're desperate in your life's on the line.
(14:59):
Game three, Indiana gets to win, and now, Okase, he's chasing.
And honestly, I'm just gonna remind you guys. Game four
in Denver, down two to one, the Nuggets led by
nine in the fourth quarter, Lou Dort, I'm pretty sure
hit three straight threes and Denver ran out of gas.
Rob you know who's not gonna run out of gas,
(15:19):
the Indiana Pacers.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
That's a good point. I'll tell you what, Ben Matherine
quickly before we get to the rest of the series.
You'll appreciate this. As a Lakers fan like me, there
were a lot of Pacer fans. There was a national
conversation on some of the you know, the NBA heavy
podcasts that I listened to. Even last year, Indiana fans
were over Ben matherin the Ben Mathern experience. They saw
(15:42):
the talent, but the way that he plays does not
necessarily fit their style. Right Like, there are a lot
of ball movement player movement. No one really holds it
too long, and it's spearheaded by Tyre's Halliburn. We've famously
said his usage. Ray is in the twenties low twenties,
and he's one of the best cards in the NBA.
What we saw in game three reminded me of the
(16:06):
infamous Lonnie Walker game when the Lakers played the Uh. Now,
of course Math is a much better player than one.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
A lot of people hold up, what's it was that Memphis?
Speaker 3 (16:14):
No? No, that was Golden State. Yeah say uh to
go up three to one in game four, that's right,
good wo And it was a guy that you weren't
necessarily counting on. You want the ball to be in
Lebron and and AD's hands and maybe Austin Reegis and
those that do all the cooking. And that's how we
win games Indiana. The way they win games ball movement,
player movement. Hit a lot of open threes like that.
(16:37):
They caused chaos and confusion on the on the defense,
Ben mather doesn't play like that. Ben Matherin is like,
I'm gonna go get a bucket, give me the ball,
I'm gonna attack a close out, I'm gonna attack a
pick and roll, and this is what I do. It's
probably why it doesn't play a whole lot of minutes
because it kind of you know, if he's not playing well,
it can really junk up their offense. But we saw
(16:59):
a great mathroom performance a game three. As far as
what we're talking about with game four now again full discloser,
I picked Okac in four, so like, what do I know,
I'm looking really terrible as there's a lot of people,
but Okac last I checked. You know this. Of course,
game two the numbers have switched a little bit because
they only won by sixteen. Awfu of Lost Day were undefeated,
(17:19):
winning games by twenty entering the NBA Finals, so that
number is probably now at nineteen and a half eighteen.
So I am fully expecting Okac to come out. And
as you mentioned, there's something to be said about a
desperate team. There was people on saying on Twitter that
in Game three, the way that Indiana approached the game
(17:40):
with the full court press basically the entire game, right,
they were their pressuring ball the entire game, the way
TJ McConnell, the spark plug, he gave, the effort that
you got from Miles Turner, and especially in that fourth quarter,
like they played it like it was a game seven,
like they knew the numbers say if we don't win
this game, eighty percent chance we're gonna lose. I think
you're gonna get that flip side effort from Okac that
(18:02):
it's so hard for Indiana, even though they are at home.
They want to go up three to one to match
the desperation of a team that objectively is a better
team than you are. So I think, okayc rolls in.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Game, rolls double digits.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
Oh stat say they're gonna win it by eighteen plus.
So yes, give me double digits for sure.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Interesting. I mean, huh, that's it. I did not anticipate
that Rob.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
the nation. Catch all of our shows at Foxsports Radio
dot com and within the iHeartRadio app search FSR to
listen live.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Here's my thing, Chet Homeward, I don't listen. He's young
and he's thinned. I don't know that he has that
dog in him. And I like chet Homeward, right, Jay Dubb,
I don't know that I believe in him. I think
they're probably gonna go, hey, Shay, you got to bring
us home, and with seven different guys guarding you all
over the court, and you've got to go for what
(19:03):
thirty five to forty? I just think that's too much
to ask. I don't know who steps up. Remember lou
Dort hit four threes for them last night? Okay, chet
oh for six? Like is lou Dort? Can you rely
on it? May he hit four threes? I think in
Game one he's streaky. I just I don't know if
they got it in him. And I like where Carlisle
(19:25):
would this be? I think they were what minus or
they were plus five thousand before the season, some insane number.
The Indiana Pacers, yep. Do you think people are sitting
at home like NBA team saying, you know, we just
need to get younger, and like when Bronni's on the court,
he needs to be picking up someone full court. Now,
you don't expect the veterans like a Lebron a Luca, Well,
(19:48):
Luca's not that much a veteran, but older guys you
don't expect that, But maybe it's time to be like, hey, Bronni,
we need we need let's see how many he played. Yeah,
we need eighteen minutes out of you a night. We
need Ben Shephard minutes. You know, you don't have the
size or length, but you have the tenacity. You got
the young legs. We need that at you. Like, I'm
up for the Lakers going after Chris Paul in place
(20:08):
of Gabe Vincent. Chris Paul want to try to get
a ring on the cheap. Maybe I don't know, but
like he's not gonna be picking up full court for
eighteen minutes. I don't think he's Could he give you
fifteen minutes of TJ McConnell. Could Chris Paul do that?
Maybe he's older, but I think you've got to Is
this like the radical rethinking or is this just a
(20:30):
one off random because we saw Minnesota do this, We
saw Indiana do it to the NIXT. Remember they would
pick up Bruns in full court and just warm down,
you know, and the way they're wearing down SGA like
Rob he was the MVP of the league. People were
ready to crown him. You put him in the same scent,
not you, But people were saying, oh, well, mid range Kobe,
and only four guys have won MVP finals, MVP and
(20:54):
led the league in scoring, and he's in that class.
I thought I could have sworn. I don't know if
it's for sure. I heard someone on an NBA podcast
this week say, well, if Sga wins the title an MVP,
he's a Hall of Famer, And I'm like, what are
we doing? What's happening here? And the end of a
pedishers are basically saying, if that that's not happened, not
(21:15):
on our watch, and to watch them just dog him. Listen,
this is the kind of game where Okase struggled in
the fourth Kevin Durant would have been freaking perfect for them,
wouldn't you have?
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Oh yeah, he didn't bucket. So as far as them
picking up full court and again like, if you can
do that, great. The reason why it's more beneficial, especially
against a team like Oka see and to a lester
well to a greater extent, but in the previous series
against team like Jay with the Knicks with Jalen Runson
is they don't necessarily have a great secondary creator like
(21:50):
j dubb has kind of been thrust into that role,
and I thought he was really good, especially in the
second and third quarter. I thought he was awesome. But
you can't say that, you know, breaking down a defense
and necessarily like his strength, right, Like, that's not necessarily
what he does. As a team. OKAC only had sixteen
assists on thirty seven basket. Yes, that's not offense like that,
(22:11):
that's not necessarily what they do. Now, if you try
doing that against the team that has, you know, bring
it back to the Lakers, if you have Luca, Lebron
and Austin, you cannot do that. There's too many guys. Like,
you can't pressure like that because you're not gonna really
wear anyone down because they have three guys who can
carry the load. And for OKC, for Indiana, it's hard
(22:37):
to say that this is the new blueprint because nobody
else plays the way they play. That's a good point, right,
Like they are very strategic with keeping their minutes down
because they play at such a frenetic pace because they
know they would run their guys into the ground if
they played them the way you would normally expect your
(22:58):
uper echelon guys to play. I don't even I can't
even say for sure that their defenders are like world
beater defenders.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
They're really good.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
I'm not saying taking away from them, but it's not
like they have you go man for man down the roster.
Nie Smith, Nemhard McConnell.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
Math like whoever.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Those guys are not as good defensively as the OKC
guys point blank period. If OKC wanted to pressure Indiana.
The problem though, is Tyre's Halliburn doesn't handle the ball
like Shia. He's gonna kid it ahead, he's gonna pass around,
And so by the time you pressure all these guys,
it won't matter because the ball will be at the
free throw line by the time you really got into them,
(23:41):
you know what I mean. So it's just it's a
styles make fights kind of thing, and right now that
this is a great fight that we're watching here in this.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Finals, so we could wrap rob I know, I think
I said the number one was when you're tied at
one and you go up to one, you win seventy
nine percent of the time. It might be eighty. I
saw seventy nine on ESPN eighty on that this gamble
in place, Poly Market right, which had the election. Interestingly,
(24:08):
poly Market only has the Pacers with a thirty five
percent chance to win the series. So something's crazy out
of whack. Okay, I will remind everybody. The last one
that I could find I just quickly went through the
finals to win Game three and lose the series was
Lebron's Heat against the MAVs, an unbelievable series which a
(24:31):
lot of people have forgotten except for Lebron. The Heat game.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
You know, Lebron against the Warriors did that too the
first year when Kyrie.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Was But they lost that series.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
Right, yeah, they went up to one and then lost.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
Oh yes, yes, oh good point, good point because Curry.
Curry had that game. I think it was the thirty
seven in Game four or something. Yeah, okay, so I
missed that one. But the Heat, Lebron's Heat eat the MAVs.
Then lost to the MAVs, then win Game three in
a close one. But Game four was the mysterious game
that really deserves its own Like what on Earth happened here?
(25:10):
That was the game where Lebron was three for eleven
shooting and had eight points just like this was to
go up three to one and Dallas storms back at
the end in one of the bigger upsets, and Miami
never won another game. Obviously, that could happen. Indiana certainly
is no HEATLS one point zero, that's for sure. But
(25:33):
could could Sga pull a Dirk Davitsky? I don't know.
We know Sga is a scoring machine. It's just a
little different because Dirk he's not getting pressure. He's just
jogging down the court getting to a spot. You know,
SGA's got to initiate the offense, and they're going at
him relentlessly. I love. I thought Rick Carlov coached a
masterpiece and we'll see a little bit of turnaround time
(25:55):
here for Dagnault man, you know, can you By the way,
so my son finished eighth grade and they have this
big celebration in California. I didn't know it was the thing,
but whatever. Do you remember your promotion from eighth grade?
Speaker 3 (26:07):
Rob?
Speaker 2 (26:07):
I do, Yeah, apparently it's big. It was nothing where
I grew up in Virginia, and I happen to be
sitting next to a buddy and I totally forgot this.
He's from Oklahoma and he's a huge OKC fan. So
his son, who's in sixth grade goes, dude, my dad
listens to straight Fire every morning. I was like, oh,
I forgot he's an Okay Sea guy. And then his
(26:29):
dad shows up and he's like, man, I was going
to get you a jersey. I'm like, oh, don't get
me an sgh. He goes, no, Austin Reeves because you
can't stop talking about him. He goes you and Rob
love you. So Austin Reeves. I was like, listen, man,
Austin Reeves is the man. But listen, I know I
bashed Okay See a lot. If they show up at
Game four, they got the series. Obviously they're not losing
(26:49):
two of three. At home, I feel confident saying Matt
PACER's got to win Game four on Friday. All right,
That's that's it for today. I think this is that
series just got fascinating. I hope you guys feel the
same way. Back tomorrow
Host
Jason McIntyre
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