"Lady Gaga and the Concept Of Time Pt 2" w/ Amy Zimmer

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, Hello, this is George, and this is your final
reminder if you live in Philly, Boston, or in New
York City, that this is your last chance to see
me do stand up comedy before I record my special
on April first. If you are in Philly, the show
is tomorrow. I repeat tomorrow. If you are listening to
this on Tuesday, the show is Wednesday, March twelfth at Philamocha,

(00:20):
featuring Sam Ruddy, who is one of my absolute faves.
If you are in Boston March twentieth, there are two shows,
an early show and a late show. And if you're
in New York, I'm doing Joe's Pub on Monday, March
twenty fourth, and I hope to see you there. I
love Philly, I love Boston, I love New York City.
And after April first, you will never hear from me

(00:41):
again for like a month or two. Well, enjoy the show.
This is a special one. Bye.

Speaker 2 (01:06):
Okay, Okay, Now I'm rethinking what if we start out
sort of with our maybe Okay, So first of all,
I think format wise, it's you know, discussing the time
that has passed, you know, how we were here for CHROMATICA,
what has come what has passed?

Speaker 1 (01:21):
Did Sam tell you that I like, I really like
your idea, Sam of so, the first time you were
on for Gaga, it was Lady Gaga in the Passage
of Time, and this is going to be Lady Gaga
in the Passage of Time part two that I love.
And so I actually think the fact that she said
her age on SNL, which is insane, like, oh, I

(01:42):
think our way in is like the passage of time.
You don't like that.

Speaker 3 (01:47):
I don't want to.

Speaker 1 (01:54):
I don't want to.

Speaker 2 (01:56):
We're keeping this in by the way, Okay, so, and
then I think we will have to do a track
by track and then.

Speaker 3 (02:04):
Where we list our health conditions with each one or
since the since twenty twenty.

Speaker 2 (02:12):
I'm crying. Okay, let's just start.

Speaker 1 (02:16):
But I do actually think it would be funny to
keep in the last like two minutes.

Speaker 2 (02:21):
Fine, okat podcast starts now. Welcome little monsters, like big monsters.
More like big monsters. So we are here today with
a very very special episode because you know, we're throwing
our whole framework out the window and we're saying enough,

(02:41):
it's time for us to become what we were meant
to be, which is a Lady Gaga Stand Podcast.

Speaker 1 (02:47):
Goga Recap podcast, The Week in Gaga.

Speaker 2 (02:51):
So, last time on Lady Gaga, it was twenty twenty
and oh.

Speaker 1 (02:57):
My god, what is it? Twenty twenty? Not even twenty one.

Speaker 2 (02:59):
It was twenty twenty. The vaccine was nowhere to be found.
We were locked in our homes and we had Amy
Zimmer on to discuss the release of not Chromatica, but
rain on me, just rain on me. Chromatica had not
come out yet.

Speaker 1 (03:14):
Oh I didn't even know that.

Speaker 2 (03:15):
And so that episode was titled Lady Gaga in the
Passage of Time. And so now you are entering Lady
Gaga in the Passage of Time, Part two with our
guest Amy Zimmer. Welcome to the podcast, Amy Zimmer, Hi.

Speaker 3 (03:27):
Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1 (03:29):
I do want to say one thing, which is that
podcast episode produced one of Amy's big, biggest ideas of
many there are many things Amy says that kind of
I put away in the in the library of my mind,
and I say, in the spank bank, in this in
this bank bank, in my intellectual spank bank, and I say,
when you need to jerk it intellectually, you can always

(03:51):
reach for these. You can always go into the Amy folder.
And one of those things is when Amy said lady
like respect Lady Gaga, something along the lines of like
Lady Gaga means the twenty tens meant something like to
let go of Lady Gaga completely, to be like, you're
hopeless means that the twenty tens were for nothing. So

(04:13):
like you have to respect Lady Gaga. If you think
the twenty tens had any significance and can be salvageable
in any way, well, I.

Speaker 3 (04:22):
Think that is hung in high relief now when you
say yeah, and.

Speaker 1 (04:26):
It actually is funny to think now now I think
of that as so long ago, but you said that
in twenty twenty, so it really was about the decade
that had just ended. I mean, this was very kind of,
you know, a New York Times opinion section, like, let's
take stock of the last decade.

Speaker 3 (04:42):
It's amazing because I completely black out eighty five percent
of that episode. And to hear what I said back
to me about twenty years later, it's really profound. But
I agree with that. Yeah, sure, and I think you
know what a what a tragic patina it has now come.

Speaker 1 (05:03):
The patina feeling tragic. First of all, the feeling when
the Patina is tragic. Second of all that Patina, it's
like it's like The Titanic. It's the first scenes of
The Titanic where the little camera is under the water
and they're finding things and they're all covered in that
sort of like chunky, chunky substance where.

Speaker 3 (05:21):
Little cameras are under the water. That's pretty much where
we're at, I would say, I think, I.

Speaker 1 (05:28):
Mean, I guess the twenty tens are sort of you know,
the Titanic main narrative Leo Rose and in the twenty
twenties are more little camera under the water finding chunky substance.

Speaker 2 (05:41):
I mean, no more than ever. I I almost want
to start with just so listeners. I don't know if
they know with all of our relationships with Lady Gaga. Yeah,
Amy Abe, please kick this off really even if if
it because since we talked, Chramatica has come out, there
was a tour, there's been a whole and then now

(06:03):
a new album. I want to know if anything of
your relationship with her has changed in the last five years.

Speaker 3 (06:11):
Yeah. I think it would be a little a little
uh distressing if it hadn't. I actually think this entire
what it seems to be like her sort of promotional
cycle around this album. Is that how much things have changed,
you know, which is a big part of time. I
don't know if you know about this, but I would

(06:33):
say yeah. I mean there's always something that changes in
your relationship to a mega pop star in the course
of a life. And I also think, who who I
am since I even said that, has changed a lot.

Speaker 1 (06:47):
So yeah, since you just said that, like since you said.

Speaker 3 (06:49):
Yeah, yeah, well that's yeah, the Mayhem of my mystery.
Oh but there is something eternal I think to being
interested in her work, which is too like constantly sort
of not know how you're feeling at any given moment
until you do.

Speaker 1 (07:06):
Yeah, there's a productive ambiguity there.

Speaker 3 (07:08):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 2 (07:10):
Yeah. So as I want to know, like as Mayhem
is coming out, you know, tell us what's going through
your brain? Tell us if it's sort of the emotions
that it's sparking as she's promoting. I want to know, like,
are you like, is it fear, is it wonder? Is
it excitement? Is an anxiety? What are you feeling as
she is, you know, debuting her black hair and her

(07:33):
this font. And I want to know. I want to
know it all.

Speaker 1 (07:36):
Yeah, how do you feel about the font?

Speaker 3 (07:38):
About the orange font? Yeah, it's the last thing on
my mind. I guess when I come to everything. I mean,
I've been seeing a lot of these things where it's
like compare Lady Gaga's fonts over the years, which I
think is symptomatic of something much darker in the culture.
To go over the font of a of a of

(08:00):
a business is kind of crazy. But I was really excited.
I have been excited to see her going dark dark pop.
I think I was part of the majority or like
a lot of people who suspected it would be a
hardcore return to dark pop, and then I think I was.

(08:26):
I was in for a surprise when the album dropped,
not entirely unpleasant surprise, but I did. It takes some
adjusting or something to it.

Speaker 1 (08:35):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, So when we say dark pop, because
I have to say I'm very much on the outskirts
of this.

Speaker 3 (08:43):
By the way, that's not a genre that kind of exists.

Speaker 1 (08:45):
But is that we're talking like Alejandro, I.

Speaker 3 (08:49):
Think we're talking well, I think that obviously the two
the two lead singles that came out were featuring like
a really more goth heavy sound, a more industrial sound,
which everybody came to know her for. And I felt
that the visuals in Disease in particular were exciting. I
love the choreo with Paris, the new direction. I thought,

(09:15):
you know, okay, there's there's there's effort, energy, and momentum,
which I think, as you if you're going to chart
anything through the discography, those three things are. It's hard
when those three things are aligned.

Speaker 1 (09:28):
But you know, what are the three things again?

Speaker 3 (09:31):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (09:33):
I wasn't going to catch that.

Speaker 3 (09:35):
I just think it's effort, energy and momentum.

Speaker 2 (09:38):
Effort, energy, momentum, energy and momentum. Yeah, that's our sort
of chrisma, uniqueness, neurve in talent.

Speaker 1 (09:43):
Effort, energy and momentum is huge, Amy, is it really it's.

Speaker 2 (09:47):
Huge effort, energy momentum. Because I do agree, because actually,
when Disease first dropped, it was like there was just
the single, no music video, and I was like, is
there effort, energy and momentum? Like I was like, there's
a little effort, like you did put the song out,
but is it energy? Is it momentum?

Speaker 1 (10:04):
You felt Disease was not energy or momentum.

Speaker 2 (10:07):
I did. I felt like it was okay, effort, yeah,
and then once the video came out, then I was like, okay,
now we have energy, effort, momentum. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:15):
What's interesting about those three is that it's not quite that.
You know, you have one that's one third, you have
two that's two thirds. It's not like that at all, actually,
because if you have effort but not energy and momentum,
that actually is a self defeating effort, because then an
effort without energy and momentum just seems desperate, and it's
almost worse than not having effort at all. It's worse
than being just static. You know, effort without energy and

(10:38):
momentum is someone on the street just sort of like
slapping themselves and being like notice me, notice me.

Speaker 3 (10:45):
Yeah, well that's a key part. That's a key part
of this anyway. But I'm interested what you said, Sam,
you weren't sort of excited by disease when it happened,
or you didn't feel all three were happening.

Speaker 2 (10:54):
I didn't feel all three were happening, So my.

Speaker 3 (10:56):
Really, whereas I did, I was like, all right, I
did two I did.

Speaker 2 (10:59):
That's awesome. I was jealous of that, as as you know,
chromatica was nearly a mental illness for me. I think it's.

Speaker 3 (11:08):
Unilaterally that for almost everybody involved. I can't imagine a
universe where it was, you know, like a tranquil amber
where you're healthy.

Speaker 1 (11:16):
You're just sort of like, oh, yeah, I'm just having
a sip of wine listening to Chromatica.

Speaker 2 (11:21):
I listened to it so much. I bought over five
T shirts your merch.

Speaker 1 (11:26):
I didn't know that addiction was actually crazy, Sam, And
I'm still finding out about new T shirts that you
own from the CHROMATICA.

Speaker 2 (11:33):
Currently wearing the Dawn of CHROMATICA shirt.

Speaker 1 (11:36):
And can I ask something all of these you paid for.
It was not the Goga team. Gaga didn't send them
to you as an LGBTQ plus influencer. You didn't maybe
get the meta concert like as a free promotional GID.

Speaker 2 (11:50):
I was lost. I was lost, and I think I
needed it so bad. Yeah, So I was buying merch
lenchon right, and I was sort of like, well, this
is the only time I can buy Chromatic emerges this
moment in time, the summer of twenty twenty, when they're
when we are all locked in our homes.

Speaker 1 (12:07):
Of course, except all the various people that completed your order.

Speaker 2 (12:11):
Say that, so, yeah, pretty much. I had to buy
as many shirts as I could.

Speaker 1 (12:18):
And do you feel and you when disease came out,
you didn't feel the need to let's say, google Gaga
disease T shirt.

Speaker 3 (12:26):
Yeah, where's your merch stance. Now that we can leave
our homes freely and sort of we'll go about in
the political social climate that is, you know, reaching a
fever pitch.

Speaker 2 (12:36):
I mean I literally have I did look up you know,
I said, I can't wait for the Mayhem March to drop.
Then I went to the website. It turns out it
already did. And it's just sort of not exciting to me,
which I think is growth, Like I think is like
a good sign. It's a sign that I'm healthier at least.
And I think when disease came out, I was sort
of like sort of expecting to go into a psychosis

(12:58):
once again totally, and instead I was like, oh, okay,
like okay, and that was healthy. And I think, you know,
we talked about a relationship with her. I think in
twenty twenty, I was like literally like this is the
only thing I'm looking forward to, and this is the
only thing that is fun to me, and now I'm like,
there's more in my life.

Speaker 1 (13:19):
That's odd.

Speaker 2 (13:20):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (13:22):
I think a big part of this album subtextually actually
is like a really noble millennial embracing of getting older,
at least on Goga's part. Yeah, which I really respect.

Speaker 1 (13:35):
Because you want to talk about that, I'll talk When did.

Speaker 3 (13:40):
I say I didn't want to talk about that?

Speaker 1 (13:42):
Remember at the very beginning when I was like, you know,
a big part of the help of Cycle is the
passage of time. And I was actually very struck by
the fact that on SNL she said specifically her age.

Speaker 2 (13:54):
Yeah, we said, do you want to talk about it?

Speaker 1 (13:56):
No, coward, No, You literally were like, I can't talk
about it.

Speaker 3 (14:00):
I didn't want to be like, I'm forty two and
I have sinocidist since Chromatica came out, you know what
I mean, Like, I do want to talk about you know.

Speaker 1 (14:09):
Okay, you want to talk about her embracing aging as
an elder millennial.

Speaker 3 (14:13):
Well as a pop star specifically, I think that's an
incredibly it's a beautiful moment. I think in a larger
recording artist, of course, it's the way of like Rear
and it's critical.

Speaker 1 (14:24):
To their.

Speaker 3 (14:26):
Artistry, which is a favorite word I think of Stephanie,
and I think like her. It just seems like in
the promotional efforts, she's pretty dead set on being grounded
an adult, or at least a presentation of like stability

(14:46):
after and that, like, you know, I think she's trying
to make it pretty clear that like this is about
her enjoying making Lady Gaga music again, and that she
is thirty eight. I don't know, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (15:05):
Do you think I think, yeah, so, because I'm obviously Gaga.
Whenever she's promoting anything, there is a certain character she's playing,
and uh, you know, for our Pop it was like Mermaid.
For Stars Born, it was Angenu in her first big
starring role. For Joker Too, she was like on the

(15:27):
verge of murdering.

Speaker 2 (15:29):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (15:30):
And for this one, I find it interesting that she
is actually choosing to be kind of like sort of normal. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (15:38):
It's like down tempo grunge like Tampa Girl, which I can.

Speaker 1 (15:41):
Do exactly, and she's it's actually crazy how she's you know,
you think of her as someone who is inherently, and
I say this in a positive way, inherently weird. Inherently
theater kid esque. Inherently there's something a little bit off,
and the way that she has managed to just turn
that off completely and be just like charming doing her
a monologue like you know, like kind of talking very

(16:04):
matter of factly about embracing joy and finding love. There
is one part of me that's like, so has it
all been a lie at this point?

Speaker 2 (16:11):
Up until?

Speaker 3 (16:12):
That's critical? I mean, I mean, to wonder about what
if anything's been a lie or not is to like,
is to fool yourself in this, you know, the whole
the lie of Lady Gaga is the essential core of
Lady Gaga.

Speaker 2 (16:26):
No, I fully agree.

Speaker 3 (16:28):
I don't think it's about whether or not she means
anything or not. I don't think this it's like some
kind of trickster album rollout either. I think it's like
I think she's simply saying like I mean, maybe it's
a good segue into perfect celebrity. And I don't know
if you want to go track by track or what,
but let's go track by.

Speaker 2 (16:44):
Track starting now. Okay, okay, let's start with disease. We've
discussed it briefly personally. It really grew on me and
I'm obsessed with it. I also love how Zellia Banks
is obsessed with it, and that has informed me a lot.

Speaker 3 (17:04):
We'll talk about the passage of time to see literally
to see to see some beautiful things blooming from from
twenty thirteen to now is really nice to see. But yeah,
I was excited by the grit and the grist of it,
and I really liked I have always liked when she's

(17:28):
doing something a little more sledgehammery, and so I really
liked the base in this and the visuals and I
was like, all right, you know, nothing that would make me,
you know, buy five or six T shirts or something
like that. But I was certainly really excited.

Speaker 2 (17:43):
And I give Disease three T shirts.

Speaker 1 (17:45):
I give Disease three T shirts. I'm excited it will
get more into this later.

Speaker 2 (17:49):
Four T shirts for.

Speaker 1 (17:52):
M I give it three and a half.

Speaker 2 (17:54):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (17:55):
What something I like about this album is that it
really solidified a lot of the Gaga themes and motifs.
There's like a real world building element to it, Like
there are these themes of illness, murder, fame as a prison,
a lot of the stuff that we've seen before but

(18:17):
re examined in slightly different ways, and I really do
appreciate that. I also something about the passage of time
aging and also her being normal. I actually sort of
think it's not that the passage of time is like
this linear thing where it ends with her being normal
at thirty eight. I actually think for a pop star,

(18:40):
the ages of approximately thirty eight to forty two are
when they almost like transcend in this way. It's kind
of like when Madonna had Ray of Light, and I
actually think after that you almost have permission to get
even weirder if you want. But it's like this is
almost the peak of something where you have to make
your grand statement of like, Okay, we have now seen

(19:00):
what I've done the last twenty years. This is who
I am as an artist. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (19:04):
Well, that's always the hope I have with with artists
at the peak of their popularity, while they're approaching that
age range which I think you're you know, by force
or by decision, you have to kind of release the
trappings of ngenew you know, an ingenue persona or really

(19:26):
just any youth of the pop star and hopefully push
your vision as far as it can go. I'm always
wanting like huge stars to go as experimental as possible,
and there are examples of that, but I find there's
a lot less I don't know, risk taking nowadays, but yeah,
I agree. I think it's a moment where you can

(19:47):
you can reach like an apotheosis of of your talents
and charms and also just really do things out of
left field, like a Ray of Light or something something
like this, or some of Prince's albums from that time
those years.

Speaker 1 (20:02):
And I do think this isn't quite a ray of
This isn't quite out of left field. I will say
as well as I am enjoying it. It's a return.

Speaker 2 (20:10):
It's a return with a twist.

Speaker 1 (20:13):
It's a return with a twist, but it isn't it
isn't a left swing in the way that art pop
was after Born this way.

Speaker 2 (20:22):
Yeah, well, I think we should move on to Abrica. Okay,
the second track, the second single even well, I guess third.
If you can't die with a smile but to die
for I feel like I give this five T shirts.
When this came out, I said, oh my god, like

(20:43):
I'm going to be so taken care of for the
next few months, right, And I said, I want to
hear this out and about I said, you know, talk
about return to form, but with a twist. It felt
like a combo sort of all of the eras in
one song. And I was so and continue to be
so into it. It's so fun and I love the choreo.

(21:04):
That's my thoughts. Five T shirts.

Speaker 1 (21:07):
That's awesome. You hate it, I don't hate it.

Speaker 3 (21:10):
I don't hate it. I think I had this one
moment because she what was it, like the super Bowl
or the Grammys or something. She like dropped the video
as a commercial, but as.

Speaker 1 (21:21):
An American Express commercial.

Speaker 3 (21:23):
It was like a MasterCard commercial, mister card commercial.

Speaker 1 (21:25):
Excuse me, sorry, sorry to the master Card team. It
was a master Card commercial.

Speaker 3 (21:29):
If you really want to, you know, throw me back
to my youth. It's like, let me get excited about
a MasterCard commercial.

Speaker 1 (21:35):
Yeah, but yeah, lady got got dropping a video iceless. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (21:41):
Well, I think the twenty tens idea that I said
seven years ago holds up here, which is like, you know,
her music is sort of dovetails with a liberal ideology
that we you know, will unspool for it seems the
rest of our lives.

Speaker 1 (21:58):
You are completely there. And I actually think that, like
the fact that it's all these things that she's doing
are hearkening back to the kind of majesty of the
bad Romance era but are also sponsored by MasterCard. Is
part of the wistfulness of it.

Speaker 3 (22:17):
Like I know, and well, I guess my my like
my joke and also my feeling, which is just like
let her cook, so to speak. I don't know, it's
sort of like, uh, this is sort of what she does.
And I I was like, wow, it's in. I like
the song the sort of like spark of recognition where
you're like, oh my god. I think I like the song,

(22:38):
like to to be like brought out of some kind
of slumber whenever, like Gaga has like it like an
inkling of something. It's a it's a it's a bond
between listener and star that's like, I think, ultimately kind
of unhealthy. But I'm here, there and everywhere.

Speaker 2 (23:01):
But I'm really trying to like parse out your headspace
right now. I know me too.

Speaker 1 (23:05):
It's actually really fascinating. It's like listening to a public intellectual.

Speaker 3 (23:09):
It shouldn't ben't be like that, I guess, is what
I'm trying to say. Here's something I will say about
about abracadabra where And I don't want to say this
phrase anymore than need be, But I did want to
ask your guys opinion about this, this sentiment of rep
it we need say once now let me let me finish. Okay, yes,

(23:31):
of course, let me finish. We're obviously that's a phrase
that's going around.

Speaker 2 (23:36):
It's the new epidemic. It's the new COVID.

Speaker 3 (23:39):
Nineteen, certainly. And I think you can always argue that
that an artist pulls references and re originates things, recontextualizes
things into a new form, or like things of this nature.
But I find it a little distressing that the oh
currant kind of phrase at the moment is literally pointing

(24:01):
to a culture of leftovers. Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (24:06):
Yes, I do know what you mean. I think we
are I think the nachosification of pop music has gone
really far. I know everyone's always pulling, I know everyone's
always referencing, but I am sort of like, like this album,
Like so for Disease, for example, I was sort of like,

(24:26):
I think what originally didn't spark with me is I
was like, this sounds like the Kim Petress Halloween album,
Like it sounds the production sounds identical to the Kim
Petress Halloween album. So this doesn't excite me because I'm like,
this happened like five years ago. This wasn't this isn't
like old news, and it's like, wow, she brought back
this sound. It's like this is so recent. But I
do think the more I've listened to this album in general,

(24:48):
it is I would say it's nachos the album. It
is like, fully every song reminds me of another song
and in ways that at first I was annoyed by
it and now I'm liking.

Speaker 3 (24:59):
Yeah. Well, I actually don't think like I'm faulting her
for any of that. I just think it's interesting in
the way we talk about popular music now, which is
just like if somebody is to successfully kind of you
just have to sort of successfully reference something and not
recontextualize it too much for it to be enjoyable.

Speaker 1 (25:21):
And this goes back to my big idea, Right, it's
not content creators, it's context creators at all. All we're
doing is recycling the same things but giving them slightly
different context.

Speaker 2 (25:38):
Well. For example, also Useexua, which I loved, I stand,
but there are songs on there where it's literally Ray
of Light. Like it sounds like identical to songs on
Ray of Light, which you know is having its flowers
once again. But it is just like a big ray of.

Speaker 3 (25:56):
Lights, like, uh, you know what can be said, it's
a it's a pinnacle album in music in music history,
and those sounds are are still futuristic, I think, is
what you're saying. Like they're still leading edge, they're still
cutting edge, and I think that's an album where the
core of it is about huge experimentation and huge experimentation

(26:18):
into the into the like iconography of Madonna herself. It's
like a huge it's like an integration of sorts for her,
you know, NU mean where she's introspective, she's spiritual, she's futuristic.

Speaker 1 (26:34):
Well also in terms of the integration of it, it
is literally her artificial celebrity self and her quote unquote
real authentic self integrating that is a big part of
the of the kind of theme of Ray of Light.

Speaker 3 (26:49):
Mm hmm. So so talk to me, So talk to me.

Speaker 1 (26:55):
I'm struggling with I I'm struggling with the Nacho's conversation
because here's one take, here's one way into it. I
want to just reject wholesale the language of TikTok. I
don't just because three people said this phrase and then

(27:15):
people saw it and thought it was, you know, pleasing
to the ear in some way, thought it was like
an interesting lens through which to view pop cultures. Then
they repeated it, and the other ones repeated it. It
gives you this idea that somehow that is how everyone
is talking currently, And actually I am not talking like that,
you know what I mean? Yeah, Well, I'm like, I'm not.

(27:37):
You don't have to accept the terms set by the
dumbest people on the planet.

Speaker 3 (27:44):
Well, when you're talking about popular music, though, I kind
of feel like you have to hear it out.

Speaker 1 (27:48):
Almost completely, right.

Speaker 3 (27:50):
I don't think you can avoid you can't.

Speaker 2 (27:52):
You're right.

Speaker 3 (27:53):
It's like sort of saying like, I mean, would James
Joyce refuse the language of his day? I just don't
think that's real?

Speaker 1 (28:02):
Yeah, yeah, I guess what I'm I'm still holding onto
this nostalgic feeling that Internet language, language native to the
Internet is less substantial and less real than language that
is created in real time and space, and that is
just the It's it's over, it's over.

Speaker 3 (28:20):
Yeah, I would I hate to say it, but I
think language is going the way of the Dodo.

Speaker 1 (28:27):
I don't want, I mean phrase my.

Speaker 3 (28:30):
Whole deal on on words. And I think it might
be time to Nacho reheat.

Speaker 1 (28:37):
Reheat, Hello, reheat.

Speaker 2 (28:40):
Do we want to move to.

Speaker 1 (28:41):
Track three, Garden of Eden?

Speaker 2 (28:45):
Yeah, I'll take to take you to the Garden of Eden.

Speaker 3 (28:48):
Well, this feels like a you know, a return to
a variety of Gaga's past. It really, I do think
overall Mayhem is is is a Brunette album, not just
because she's met in this album cycle, but it's it's
the two thousand and seven sort of situation and it's
like this is you know, one of the story demos

(29:10):
or something. And it took me, of course, it took
me by surprise. On first listen, I was, I know,
she said that she was going to sort of this
would be full of twists and turns, but I really
was like, whoa, it is kind of like an art
pop track. It's like a two thousand and seven track.
It's fun.

Speaker 2 (29:26):
I was taken aback in a positive but then in
a positive way, like I was like it was like
seeing someone wear like a von Dutch hat, Like when
that came back and I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Yeah,
I didn't know where you could do that.

Speaker 3 (29:37):
I do think there's something like kind of really truthful
about I mean, she's really going back to two thousand
and seven in a way if you can understand in
this moment, because she was there and so and so.
I think the dynamism that she brings to like her
the songs, it's like, it's got true two thousand and
six vibes in a way that's shocking. It's not just

(29:58):
sort of cherry pick.

Speaker 1 (30:00):
Yeah, it's true because actually so many of the people
referencing that era are in fact twenty three and named
Tate McCrae or something. Yeah, and so it is very
different when she does it, as it almost makes you, well,
I don't know what I was ioud to say, is
that it almost makes you wish that is what Madonna
was doing. Like how fun would it be if Madonna
was referencing the eighties or nineties or like the material

(30:24):
Girl era in a fun way? But on the other hand,
I'm like, I don't know, I don't someone to look
back like, yeah.

Speaker 3 (30:31):
I think it's a weird. It's a different delineation. I mean,
I'm thinking about like MJ and Prince and Madonna and
now not just Gaga, but like that this is I
guess that's what I mean. And so I don't want
to say nachos again. But when I brought up that point,
the whole point being that like this is a demand
now of of our current pop stars that I think

(30:51):
it's like transcends like reinvention, which was like kind of
the eighties and nineties demand. Oh interesting, you had to
reinvent and change, and now it's like you have to
reinvent and change and successfully reference this thing that we
all remember that we loved and to like infuse that

(31:12):
nostalgia into your current project successfully, whether or not. It's
sort of like presented in a new way. Is a
demand of the moment that I think is like I
don't know if I've worked out how I feel about it.

Speaker 1 (31:28):
But it's Yeah. It used to be that the demand
was originality, and you were judged based on how innovative
you were being, and now the demand is the reheating. Yeah,
that's right, and you are judged by how successfully it
has maintained its crunch, its flavors and potentially if you're
adding maybe some fresh parsley or something or solantro on top,

(31:51):
you know what new twist you are bringing to it exactly.

Speaker 2 (31:55):
This is like, unfortunately, why nachos is an effective flightwork.
I can't no, it is an effective framework. It like
gives you language to talk about, like like how things
are repackaged, because like some stuff it is it is bad.
Sometimes you're like, I reheated these and they're soggy and horrible.

(32:15):
Sometimes you reheat it and you're like, oh, this is
actually to die for. I'm loving these reheated nachos. There
is an art to reheating.

Speaker 1 (32:22):
Can I say something about reheating? By the way, and
Lady Gaga, you know a lot of people forget this.
When she first came out. One of the big accusations
which was that she was reheating Prince Bowie Madonna. That
was the accusation from the skeptics was that she was
pastiche It was that there wasn't the new thing that

(32:44):
you got from like a Janet Jackson, the new thing,
the Quinte essentially, even even Brittany or something like the
Quinte essentially someone thing was not Gaga. She literally had
a the like what's it called on her face, like Bowie,

(33:04):
the lightning, the lightning, but like she literally has the
lightning bolt referencing Bowie. I mean imagine if I don't
know when Brittany had debuted, she had been wearing a
cone bra.

Speaker 2 (33:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (33:18):
Right, So the point being, it's actually very interesting. Gaga
reheating her own past is almost the fuck you to
the accusations that she was reheating that of others, because
now she's saying, there is enough that I have contributed
here that I can reheat it over and over and

(33:39):
over again and the stench of the initial reheating is gone.

Speaker 2 (33:46):
But you say that, but that's only this song. Then
as we move forward, it's so many reheated nachos. Okay, okay,
let's move on. Let's move by the way. I love
Garden of Eden and I want that on the record.
I love and I want that on the record.

Speaker 1 (33:59):
Okay, fixed celebrity. Now I want to know what everyone thinks.

Speaker 2 (34:03):
Well, first of all, the Gaga not reference being a
plastic doll challenge, but.

Speaker 3 (34:09):
Again, that's another event that damn If you want that
kind of challenge, I question your fandom.

Speaker 1 (34:16):
Yeah no, it's ill question what you believe about.

Speaker 3 (34:20):
The woman we're talking about.

Speaker 1 (34:22):
I think this is great art plastic.

Speaker 2 (34:24):
Yes, I love the song. But when I was close
listening all my first listen, I heard like that first
verse that's about being a plastic doll, and I was like,
we cannot literally say the phrase plastic doll again, but
nevertheless she persisted, and then when it gets to the chorus,
I am standing and I love this song.

Speaker 1 (34:43):
The first time I listened to it, I thought this
is like a quote unquote bad Gaga song, but bad
in a fun Gaga way. But the more I listen
to it, the more I actually think it's a good song.

Speaker 2 (34:55):
No, this is a great one.

Speaker 1 (34:56):
Actually it actually isn't. It's not plastic doll, which I
think is a bit of a kind of like fun
Gaga flop and like, of course I like it, but
it's because I'm a fan. You think you don't think
I think plastic doll is like it's like smore, I
don't think plastic I don't. I don't think plastic dolls
the song you're going to show someone to be like, look,

(35:18):
this is a good Gaga sog.

Speaker 3 (35:19):
I think, like I said, it's it's really hard, I mean,
to discuss whether a song is good or bad, and
in this conversation, I feel like it's besides the point that.

Speaker 1 (35:30):
Being said, Yeah, that being said, I.

Speaker 3 (35:33):
Love how her voice sounds in this. I wish sort
of the last ten seconds of the song we're in
more of the song itself, you know, there was I
feel like the grungy thing was like turned up a
little bit more at the end. But yeah, I like,
I also want the This is my personal thing that
I like of all pop stars, and I think it's

(35:53):
really hard and maybe impossible to do, but I would
love if more pop stars talked about how much they
hate their hands.

Speaker 2 (36:04):
Her friends.

Speaker 3 (36:04):
Yeah, I mean, because I think I don't think it's
like a hateful or vitriolic thing to talk about this
very unnatural, like symbiotic thing, which I think is like
a sort of I think it's a beautiful evolution of
human human connection, but I think it's like flawed and crazy,

(36:26):
you know what I mean, Like you become such an
intimate figure in somebody's life and you're a stranger, and
to talk about how upsetting and demanding and strange it
is and how much you want to fulfill on that promise,
and how you fail at it or how you succeed
is like really really interesting to me, So I would

(36:47):
love and she is sort.

Speaker 1 (36:48):
Of reheating Jesus as nachos.

Speaker 3 (36:50):
George, promise me we'll never say that phrase again for
the rest of this.

Speaker 2 (36:56):
That.

Speaker 3 (36:56):
Oh well, I do like what you said. If you
had said that sort of normally, I think I would
have had a different Yeah, but I do.

Speaker 1 (37:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (37:03):
I mean the Christ's narrative is inherent in the in
the American pop star.

Speaker 2 (37:07):
I mean that feeling when the Christ's narrative is inherent.

Speaker 1 (37:10):
I yeah, yeah. I also like what I was thinking
about perfect a celebrity is it. It's almost like she's
actually tried to give this message in for God got
standards more subtle ways. It's like you she had paparazzi,
she had plastic doll, and with this one she's like, Okay, guys,
I'm gonna say this one last time. I feel like
a plastic doll and you're all ruining my life. Capeche

(37:33):
like that is it's sort of like it's.

Speaker 3 (37:35):
Like she has the last time.

Speaker 2 (37:37):
I don't time last time, but there.

Speaker 1 (37:40):
Is something about it, even the title being so literal, like,
it's so it's not even trying to be like metaphorical
at least plastic doll. She's she's doing a metaphor.

Speaker 2 (37:50):
She's just I think I really appreciated that because I
was expecting when I saw the title, I was like, Oh,
it's gonna be like tongue in cheek and it's gonna
be like a glossy pop song about how she's a
perfect celebrity and it's gonna be like commenting. And then
it was like, oh no, she's just like complaining in
a positive way.

Speaker 3 (38:07):
Yeah, I like it.

Speaker 2 (38:09):
I like it. I'm in next track, Vanish into You.
This is this I enjoyed.

Speaker 1 (38:16):
I will say this is look Amy, here we go,
Here we go.

Speaker 2 (38:24):
Look. This is where the nachos thing gets complex. This,
I would argue, is Gaga reheating her nachos, but she
added treaded chicken that she found at the store.

Speaker 3 (38:35):
I think I feel punished. I feel punished, and I
feel wounded, and I feel like a plastic doll pretty much.

Speaker 2 (38:43):
Yeah, this song is literally the chorus sounds like bad Romance,
like she just does Bad Romance again, but slowed down
with like a different like.

Speaker 3 (38:51):
Last because she does a couple I I eyes, you're
gonna you're gonna falter on that.

Speaker 2 (38:56):
I'm not faulting her. I'm saying I'm crediting her and
saying she is doing that. Did Jesus you don't feel
this way?

Speaker 1 (39:06):
Is it the ultimate? Is it the ultimate? Sorry to
use this term flex to reference yourself?

Speaker 3 (39:15):
I have to take time with that.

Speaker 1 (39:16):
Is it the ultimate flex?

Speaker 3 (39:18):
To reference yourself?

Speaker 1 (39:19):
Rather than referencing You're saying, like, look at me, I'm
referencing the classics? What are the classics? My old tracks?

Speaker 2 (39:25):
I think the ultimate flex is to pretend you have
a limp with a cane and then fall and do
a flip and then stand up and walk normal.

Speaker 1 (39:33):
But ultimate physical like hymn artistic, artistic physical.

Speaker 2 (39:38):
I think, really wonga eight with that. But I think
this is a close second. I think referencing yourself is
a close second. I do.

Speaker 1 (39:46):
Do we think originality on its own is over completely?
I mean, did we just leave that behind in the
twentieth century? Is it a modernist or has existed?

Speaker 2 (39:54):
This is my mi Okay, here's what I was thinking. Okay,
it still exists in the sort indie sphere, Like I
was thinking about originality and whether or not it exists.
And then I was like, okay, what about like Okay Lou,
Like I was like, that's that's original right or am
I just un informed? Sam?

Speaker 1 (40:12):
Okay Lou is the most reference heavy. Well, but this
is like early aughts like europop I've ever heard. It's
literally like it's like a period piece. It's like kirea
Nightly in Bend. It like Beckham dancing with a going
out top.

Speaker 2 (40:27):
But it's so like subdued. It feels fresh, it feels
new to me.

Speaker 3 (40:31):
Yeah, I think you have to argue what the the
quality of freshness means, because I think you can always
argue endlessly that an artist's job is to reference or
not reference.

Speaker 2 (40:45):
We can.

Speaker 1 (40:47):
Keep going, keep going.

Speaker 3 (40:48):
Yeah, it's a reference or not reference to.

Speaker 2 (40:52):
God.

Speaker 3 (40:52):
I wish I remember the rest of that video, but yeah,
I'm sort of meditextually doing it even right now. I
think an artist job is always to learn about things
that happened before them, decide what it means to their work,
and to either integrate it, change it or not in
their in their in their work, and so you know,

(41:17):
it's I don't think you can avoid avoid being referential,
but you can ask yourself how much uh, your references
are buried or sewn into the things that you're doing.
And how how you do that, I think is how
you be an artist in one sense, you know, how

(41:37):
you fold things into into your own into your own thing.

Speaker 2 (41:45):
Did you guys listen to the new Pandaba album?

Speaker 3 (41:47):
You're completely shutting me down. Not yet, but I have
heard the single and I really liked it.

Speaker 2 (41:55):
Well, it's really good. I really like it. But it's
also nachos. It's fully just like it's like a very
straightforward like I'm gonna make music from the sixties again,
and in a way that I'm like, well, no one's
doing that right now, I guess, so that's cool. I
really enjoy it. But it's like, is this am I allowed?
Is this like lazy that I even like this? Like yeah,

(42:17):
so I'm torn on this is what I mean. I'm
thinking a lot about nachos.

Speaker 1 (42:21):
I mean, you know that famous essay we read Sam
that said the last unique thing was Amy Winehouse.

Speaker 3 (42:28):
You guys read that.

Speaker 2 (42:31):
The syllabus.

Speaker 1 (42:32):
It was on the syllabus Amy. We forgot to send
it over. I actually I almost have a different Okay,
here's my all right, get ready for this theory. I
think there was a break in culture when Taylor Swift
and I Knew you were Trouble included a drop that

(42:54):
that was like, oh oh, trouble, trouble dubstep from the
step Taylor Swift. Dubstep I think actually was the that
was the It was the big bang that produced the
microwave that was then used to reheat all nachos.

Speaker 3 (43:12):
From that point, well, maybe we're touching on something that
is terrifying to realize, which is like dubstep was a truly.

Speaker 1 (43:20):
So literally amy That is exactly what I was leading
to because I'm trying to think, you know, think of
the twentieth century, how much innovation hip hop? Uh, just
like all the various chapters of rock and roll innovations
and jazz whatever, What was the in our young adulthood
and adolescence.

Speaker 2 (43:39):
What was the last new thing?

Speaker 1 (43:41):
It was dubstep.

Speaker 2 (43:42):
It was dumbstep and.

Speaker 1 (43:44):
It was literally, like I swear to god, it was
also like l M f AO.

Speaker 2 (43:50):
Is pretty singular, well, I would argue is in tandem
with early goga. It was just like yeah, the loudest, danciest,
like no moment of quiet.

Speaker 1 (44:01):
At all, just like yeah, and this is something that
is forgotten I think by the by potentially some younger
fans of Gaga is that the initial glam was Indie glam.
Gaga was Santa Goold, but then took it a step further.

Speaker 3 (44:17):
I can't follow you there.

Speaker 1 (44:19):
It was you mean like the visual sequence, it's sequence,
but it's dirty. Mm hm, you know what I mean.
It's a reaction.

Speaker 2 (44:28):
It was American apparel.

Speaker 1 (44:30):
It was American apparel.

Speaker 3 (44:31):
Yes, it was a reaction to the previous couple of
years of like intense folkdom.

Speaker 1 (44:37):
Yes, you know, it was like a folk.

Speaker 3 (44:39):
Folk heavy Bush years led way to kind of glitterphonic
Obama years.

Speaker 1 (44:45):
Yes, and then but yeah, but then the glitter was
not it's not worth dwell on it. No, I think
we have to. I think there was a chance to
embrace the glitter. But but people were R two. I
don't think Obama was glitter. I think Obama on the.

Speaker 3 (45:04):
I didn't say that Obama was glitter.

Speaker 1 (45:08):
I said I don't think Obama. You know, there's on
the one side of things, you have a just a
single leather boot, and on the other side, you have
a budget of glitter, and I think Obama went for
the boot more than the glitter. Well, so that we
get here, the next track is Killer Killer, so Killer.

Speaker 2 (45:33):
Is obviously the next single. Yeah, because she performed on SNL.
I personally, you know, here's what I'm gonna say. I
think every time I talk about a song, I'm gonna
start by saying I personally really like it. So you know,
I think fans may think I'm not critical enough, and
that's okay. But this song is sort of Prince Bowie

(45:56):
and but with classic little Gaga isms, and I think
it At first I was like, jaw on the floor,
this is so corny, and then it's really won me over.
I'm addicted now. I think the breakdown is so genius.
I do wish it started there and stayed there, But

(46:17):
I like outro. I wish the outro was like way
more prominent and it would like have breaks of the
like little funky part and then I would go back
to being kookie.

Speaker 3 (46:29):
I respect that. I yeah, I mean, well, the Fame
reference is so hardcore in it that it really took
me by surprise, I gotta say. But I like the
S and L performance. I thought it was cool and
like I liked the CCTV kind of moment of it,

(46:49):
and yeah, I give it a couple of T shirts.

Speaker 1 (46:54):
Yeah, I give it a couple of T shirts. Once again,
she's going back to themes of murder and death and killing,
and yeah, I.

Speaker 2 (47:03):
Think kill a h is quite funny. I think I
love so who is that? So? Who is that? I mean,
I just love the name. I love the saying featuring.

Speaker 1 (47:14):
Gas and he's French.

Speaker 2 (47:17):
He's a French DJ producer. So pretty much do you
know who Gin is? Amy?

Speaker 1 (47:27):
Amy?

Speaker 3 (47:27):
I know they're a legendary producer, French producer.

Speaker 1 (47:31):
Are they legendary?

Speaker 3 (47:34):
That's what I hear.

Speaker 2 (47:36):
Okay, many many of my sources are saying that Gasoppelstein
is quite legendary mm hmm in the French DJing and
producing space. Okay, yeah, So Amy, I feel almost that
you're beating around the bush. Do you not enjoy the song?

Speaker 1 (47:54):
And also, Amy, can I ask something like, yeah, what,
I don't know? There is something deeper about this album?
And I actually there is something. Here's what it seems,
here's what all right, Here's how I feel about Gaga
at this stage. All right, I almost feel like that

(48:17):
moment when things are so dire that you're not allowed
to criticize the Democrats.

Speaker 2 (48:22):
Oh my god, I think that it is.

Speaker 1 (48:24):
There is something culturally speaking, I have to we our
community has to hold on to Gaga so much right
now that it feels unethical even if I do have
an issue with one of these songs Drift, and if
I potentially have an opinion regarding the reheating of Nachos,
that this is not the time to be critical in

(48:44):
the same way that when it is time to be
united and resistant coalition build, I shouldn't be making fun
of Nancy Pelosi.

Speaker 2 (48:53):
Wow, I think that's scaring me.

Speaker 1 (48:56):
What do you think of that?

Speaker 3 (48:58):
I think, I, well, I think that's probably true. I
think I'm going back and forth with this thing where
it's like we're talking about getting older and talking about
this album, and I think I keep going back and
forth about what it means for a pop album to
be resonant to me or not at this stage in life,

(49:21):
and I don't think that the album's note this is
why I don't open up.

Speaker 2 (49:32):
Come on, this is why I don't up.

Speaker 1 (49:34):
We were getting somewhere, getting I'm getting amy to say
that to address the elephant in the room and you're
gonna go and do that life am ignoring Amy?

Speaker 3 (49:53):
What's after Killa Zombie Boy and see Zombie Boy?

Speaker 1 (49:57):
I love I love Zombie Boy.

Speaker 2 (49:58):
I love Zombie Boy. I love.

Speaker 3 (50:02):
So it reminds me of nights I've had at the Standard.

Speaker 1 (50:07):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (50:08):
Yeah yeah, I mean, you know, Lady Gaga grew up
in the Standard, like pretty much.

Speaker 3 (50:11):
That was her whole life from the Standard Hotel.

Speaker 2 (50:14):
Yeah, you know, going to the Standard, going to the
bar at the Standard.

Speaker 1 (50:18):
I do like a twenty tens version of the Chelsea
Hotel where instead of you know, Patty Smith, it's like
it's literally like all the people that were at Pitchfork Fest,
but they're like being put up at the Standard. Well,
they're all like honestly doing fine financially. They're just sort
of like partying at the bar.

Speaker 2 (50:33):
Yeah, I mean if you weren't. What's the bar called
at the Standard.

Speaker 1 (50:35):
Top of the the boom Boom Rooms, the Boo.

Speaker 2 (50:38):
Boom Boom Room. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (50:39):
Yeah, it made me think of the Boom Boom Room.

Speaker 2 (50:46):
Yeah. I'm I think some the funny thing about like
kill a Zombie Boy disease, Like, I think it is funny.
Part of me is like did you intend for this
to be a Halloween album? And just like, uh, well
that is the dark pop it all.

Speaker 3 (51:01):
Yeah, and also literal yeah, and well she's literal pretty literal.
I mean for her fantasy in front of me, like
you know you.

Speaker 1 (51:09):
Even die with a smile, that is also Halloween. Even
it's much more of a you know, uber song, target song,
Uh brand it like abric is magic.

Speaker 2 (51:24):
Album.

Speaker 1 (51:25):
I'm holy realizing it's a Halloween album.

Speaker 3 (51:27):
Well, I do think that the part of the the
imagery around the album is talking about this thing. I
think we're maybe struggling to articulate it, and maybe we're not,
but it's just sort of like this the resuscitation of Gaga,
it's itself herself, like the the the Gaga of her

(51:49):
life is like this sort of like endless combative resuscitation,
this like coming back from the dead and all this
kind of stuff. It's it's this seems to be like
her struggle, which I always find that stuff kind of
very interesting want pop stars to write all about it.
So I do think, like, obviously the imagery is pretty

(52:10):
literal in the songs, but I do think she's trying
to pepper that in there to be like what happens
in this like rebirth is actually like constant death also,
and it's really exhausting on me, who's like actually an
alive woman in a relationship and wanting to be wanting
to be a woman.

Speaker 1 (52:29):
Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (52:30):
Like and wanting to be like a alive you are, so.

Speaker 1 (52:35):
Rebirth is constant death is so true. It's not like
you are reborn and you're stronger than ever. You're still
carrying the weight of having just died.

Speaker 3 (52:44):
Well or yeah, you're meant to sort of ask what
you take.

Speaker 1 (52:47):
With you exactly. And also you know, a rebirth can
doesn't can be a zombiefide rebirth, I mean a zombie
is in a sense undead, is in a sense alive.
And you know, to go from colors in chromatica to
black and white in Mayhem, there's a symbolism there as well.

Speaker 2 (53:06):
And what do you think that is that we've lost
the color, that we've lost the color, folks, we've lost
the color.

Speaker 3 (53:14):
Well, I wonder if there's kind of like an inverse.
It makes me think of you know, I think this
album we're talking about how referential it is. It's very intentional.
I think that it's this referential all these different iterations,
and I think about the Fame Monster what that meant,
the departure that it had through that darker imagery and

(53:35):
the monster stuff, and there was a lot of like animation,
you know what I mean in those songwriting. She was
animating different desires, different ambitions through like this kind of
horror imagery. And I almost feel like now it's like
a little bit in verse where like the music itself
is full of a lot of life actually, but it

(53:56):
has the sort of kitchy, more like tongue in cheek
like horror language. It's not as dark as the Fame Monster,
but it's maybe has more life.

Speaker 1 (54:10):
And also, both The Fame Monster and Mayhem are Halloween
albums because the Fame Monster also played with themes of monsters, zombies,
et cetera. And by the way, the Fame was color
and the Fame Monster was black and white, just like
Chrematica was color and Mayhem is black and white.

Speaker 3 (54:26):
Wow, And you can't argue with that. But what do
you think Born this Way is? Because there's color and
black and white.

Speaker 1 (54:37):
I think Born this Way is, like, isn't even part
of this conversation really, because to me, Born this Way
is like Gaga at her most commercial. I'm not saying
that in a negative way, like there are great songs
and Born this Way.

Speaker 3 (54:49):
But Sam just heard alarm bells Gaga.

Speaker 1 (54:52):
Gaga at that point was the number one pop star
and she released Born this Way. It's a different thing, but.

Speaker 2 (54:59):
She also it's a bit of a like. I think
this actually does relate to Born this Way because it's
so like, look how many genres I can do. I
think Born this Way was very like, this is gonna
be a Bruce Springsteen song, this is German dance, this
is country, and I think Mayhem is like that a lot.

Speaker 1 (55:17):
That's actually a very good point. So in a sense,
in a sense that what's being reheated is the eclecticism.
It's not like each song is reheating different.

Speaker 3 (55:28):
Different I just feel like I created a monster.

Speaker 1 (55:31):
I'm not saying the word so referential, but I'm gonna
say the word.

Speaker 2 (55:37):
I think. I think honestly, that's what feels most refreshing
about the album as a whole is the eclecticness, because
now everything is so market tested and so like, this
album is about blank. This album is like my nineties
house blank. This album is for this, and this is

(55:58):
like I'm I'm everything at once, and it's like actually
very confusing, and I'm like, wow, this actually makes it
feel refreshing.

Speaker 3 (56:07):
That is the only constant.

Speaker 1 (56:09):
Yeah, and that is what pop like was in the
I don't know nineties and early odd It's like pop
was in fact that the criticism of it was that
it lacked cohesion and it lacked a coherent vision, and
it was just like an album for a pop star
was just a series of singles or a series of
songs that could be played without any context. That was

(56:31):
a criticism of it. And to make an album like
Ray of Light or even something even more cohesive in
the real life, like something that's like a concept album
was the exception. It's like something that someone would do
when they wanted to like really make a statement, and
then at some point everything became a concept album. Like
at some point it was like each album was supposed

(56:51):
to be like a built in narrative.

Speaker 2 (56:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (56:55):
Yeah, I think that's part of the game. I think
I mean you, I think you're you're sort of stuck
as a pop star either to be like like intentionally
anti narrative or you have to build the world, you know,
And I do like what you said that. I do
think of a constant part of of Goga's work is

(57:17):
that she's always doing something different than anyone anticipates, which
I think is like how I've met this album where
I'm like, oh, it's completely different than what I thought
it was going to be. And I I always I
always find like love and affection for every project. It's
just sort of a manner of how how it washes.

Speaker 1 (57:36):
Over, you know, Yeah, I do know.

Speaker 2 (57:40):
Should we go to the next track? So the naract
is love Drug?

Speaker 1 (57:47):
Yeah, so now this is I mean, so it's love Drug.

Speaker 2 (57:51):
So pretty much it's going to go ahead.

Speaker 3 (57:52):
And beard of love.

Speaker 1 (57:53):
You've heard of drug, heard of love, heard of love games.

Speaker 2 (57:59):
And still love drug Drug.

Speaker 1 (58:03):
And I actually like this one.

Speaker 2 (58:06):
I like it too, let's start there. I like this
as well, although I'm going to listen to it on
my headphones really quickly so I can that doesn't feel
remember exactly, I'm gonna say something that Amy's gonna get
mad at me for. And what is it?

Speaker 3 (58:18):
I don't want to get mad at you, just so
you know, you just do stuff that is makes me mad.

Speaker 2 (58:25):
Okay. On first listening. I was really close listening to
everything this, I was like, what does this remind me of?
What does this remind me of? Katie Perry's I Kissed
a Girl.

Speaker 3 (58:36):
I've seen people saying that I didn't really like hear
that on first listen, but I get that. I mean,
there's similar.

Speaker 2 (58:46):
D It's very like it felt so wrong, it felt
so right, don't mean, and it's like very similar. You know,
it's not illegal. Perry doesn't own that, but I I
was a lot of this album was like I kept
being like, what is that? It's so familiar, but it's

(59:06):
just like a little bit off. Let's run through the tracks.
We're gonna move quickly, okay, because because we want to
talk broader and okay. So how Bad do you Want Me?
The Taylor Swift sounding song? Obviously this scared me. I

(59:30):
loved it, but George texted me, I love how bad
do you Want Me? And I said what I did
not realize?

Speaker 1 (59:35):
I mean I was I was like barely awake listening
to the album for the first time it came on.
It was catchy to me. I texted Sam, oh my god,
I love how Bad do you Want Me? And he
was like the Taylor Swift song, and I had no
idea what he was talking about, and then I guess
I looked it up and what is the story there?

Speaker 2 (59:48):
Well, I think it's a rumor that she like did
background vocals on it or something fake. I mean, but
I mean it just sounds.

Speaker 1 (59:56):
Identical, sounds like a Taylor Swift punk but it also
sounds like Taylor Swift song by way of Gaga in
the way that you know. I don't know, Uh, Edge
of Glory is that type of song by way of Gaga?

Speaker 2 (01:00:10):
Yeah, it's just as like I'm just I look forward
to one day finding peace with my relationship with Taylor Swift,
but today is not that day.

Speaker 1 (01:00:18):
You're just allergic to that sound, so you can't let
it into your heart.

Speaker 2 (01:00:21):
Exactly interesting.

Speaker 3 (01:00:23):
I think it also has a little bit of the
Cure in it, not the band but the song.

Speaker 1 (01:00:28):
Yes, although funny made.

Speaker 3 (01:00:30):
A connection now that it had references to the cure
of the band. I think this would be a perfect
episode for me.

Speaker 2 (01:00:37):
Okay, let's move on to the next track, Don't Call Tonight.
This is sort of reheating Alejandro's nachos.

Speaker 3 (01:00:43):
Oh oh oh, I see what you mean, Like a
don't call tonight, don't call tonight. But there's also it
made me also think of I'm not having fun tonight. Yeah,
another song one tonight in it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
Tonight is such a the.

Speaker 1 (01:00:57):
Idea of tonight really looms large and poppys.

Speaker 2 (01:01:00):
We'll talk about the concept of time.

Speaker 3 (01:01:01):
I could have a whole another episode talking about the
concept of tonight.

Speaker 1 (01:01:05):
No, but truly, the concept of tonight is one of
the most powerful, is one of the most powerful concepts
because to talk about the passage of time, it's the
idea of tonight is both now and not now. It
is tonight, it's coming, but it's basically already.

Speaker 3 (01:01:21):
Happening, and it's it's almost already over.

Speaker 1 (01:01:24):
Yes, exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:01:24):
Oh my god. The temporariness of it is really scary.

Speaker 1 (01:01:28):
It has this dual meaning where you can actually it
can be morning and you can be talking about tonight
and it's in the future, and it can be tonight
and you can be like, I'm having fun tonight currently
it denotes both future and present.

Speaker 3 (01:01:43):
Yeah, I think it's an a compression of like actualizing
on your desires. It's like you've got about eight hours,
twelve hours, maybe fifteen, sixteen hours if you stay up,
stay up all night, which becomes dawn, which Sam can
speak to Donald cormatica later. But you know what I mean,
you have you have a certain amount of time in

(01:02:03):
which you can make the most of things. And that
is a really like you know, that has a lot
of charge to it in a pop pop writing landscape.

Speaker 2 (01:02:13):
It's also it's so.

Speaker 1 (01:02:15):
It's such a short amount of time. It's like, make
the most of tonight, like make the most of the night.
But also it is infinite, you know. It's it's like it's.

Speaker 3 (01:02:27):
Forever tonight, will last forever or most start tonight?

Speaker 1 (01:02:31):
Yeah, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:02:33):
Shadow of a Man, shadow of a Man?

Speaker 1 (01:02:36):
You love shadow of a Man?

Speaker 2 (01:02:38):
I heard Shadow of a Man. This is a it's
hard to do. We should I want to continue rushing,
but damn Shadow of a Man is crazy to reheat.
Michael Jackson's natchos in like in such a way, like
the production. Her voice sounds like Michael in a way
that is jaw dropping. My jaw was on the floor

(01:02:59):
picking up crumbs because it sounds so much like Michael,
and I I was, you know, gagged in a positive sense.
I think this song is so slay. I think it's
so crazy and I loved it.

Speaker 3 (01:03:15):
I loved it too, and I saw that it was
that she had used it in like Chromatica or something
at the CHROMATICA Ball or something.

Speaker 2 (01:03:24):
She used the little intro sound.

Speaker 1 (01:03:26):
Yeah, and when it's like, it doesn't.

Speaker 3 (01:03:29):
Feel fair that you guys are re listening to it
during the app.

Speaker 1 (01:03:32):
And I'm sorry I had to. I literally have not
remembered a single song that we have talked. Really, yes,
I mean I I and I listened to the album
multiple times. I tried to prepare we're saying the title
of each song. I have no idea what we're talking about.
This was at the end of Man, Yeah, it is
very okay, Okay, I'm getting the Michael Jackson.

Speaker 3 (01:03:51):
Yes, I do think about how she has his clothes
a lot and what that must be like she has
his clothes. Yeah, she like bought a bunch of his clothes.

Speaker 2 (01:04:02):
Oh, I didn't know that, but yeah. I remember watching
the Chromatica Ball tour video and it ends with like,
Lady Gaga, We'll return and it plays the very small
snippet from the beginning of this song, which is funny.
Then okay, we love what is the Beast? The Beast
is a ballad that to me is the I think.

(01:04:25):
Here's what I'll say. I think it works in the
context of the album, but to me, it's the one
song where I'm like, I'm okay.

Speaker 1 (01:04:31):
Okay, and then lade ahead.

Speaker 3 (01:04:33):
Oh that's it, Okay, go ahead and we'll leave it there.
Blade of.

Speaker 2 (01:04:38):
Blade of Grass, Okay, here's here's a okay, Amy, get
ready to scream. Guess who's nachos? This is reheating. Oh.
I was listening to this and I was like, this
sounds like something. It sounds like cold Play. Fuck, what's
it called? Uh? Is it Viva la Vida? Yes, it's Viva.

(01:05:00):
It's cold Play, Viva la Vida, Walk.

Speaker 3 (01:05:02):
Me through, Walk me through.

Speaker 2 (01:05:05):
So it's like.

Speaker 1 (01:05:09):
Like I know, oh, I know Viva.

Speaker 2 (01:05:14):
I know. So Plade of Grass is like the same thing.
It's like like that. It's like slower, but I have
to play it to listen to it to hear it.

Speaker 3 (01:05:24):
Wait into the mic or is that going to explode everything?

Speaker 1 (01:05:27):
I can play it unto the mic because I didn't.

Speaker 3 (01:05:30):
Hear Viva Avida like that.

Speaker 2 (01:05:34):
Let's see done? Do Wait?

Speaker 1 (01:05:39):
Are we both playing it? What is behind you? Huge?

Speaker 3 (01:05:50):
Roussellum bells ring and I get that. I get that,
actually totally it did. And by the way, in about
four months, it's going to be cold Playcore.

Speaker 1 (01:06:06):
Oh calling it?

Speaker 2 (01:06:07):
Now, what did you say?

Speaker 1 (01:06:11):
I said?

Speaker 3 (01:06:12):
I said in four months time, it's going to be
cold Play Core.

Speaker 2 (01:06:24):
In four months time. Set your cows now talk about
the passage of time. Four months four months?

Speaker 3 (01:06:31):
Like, whenever I do this podcast, I'm like, I'm an owl.

Speaker 1 (01:06:37):
You insult we're insulting you.

Speaker 3 (01:06:43):
No, No, I just feel like I speak and complete
and comprehensible redlds, but a lot that has to understand me.

Speaker 2 (01:06:51):
You are.

Speaker 1 (01:06:53):
What's funny about what you said is it's exactly the
kind of thing we would say. But then like it would,
it's so ice to be like in four months, cold
plays making a comeback. But then you said it and
we're acting like you're insane.

Speaker 3 (01:07:04):
I feel like I feel like this is a critical part.

Speaker 1 (01:07:10):
You're literally coming at us and you're like, yeah, I'm
speaking your language, like in four months it's Coldplay court and.

Speaker 2 (01:07:15):
We're like, what the fuck is she talking? So July July,
we will be seeing Coldplay core. People will be blasting
yellow at the fourth of July party.

Speaker 1 (01:07:25):
I do think. I do think that there's something so
down the middle about Cold Play, and that is sort
of where we're headed.

Speaker 3 (01:07:34):
I think I just think there's going to be sounds.
I think Benson Boone in a way is like a
precursor to Cold Blake. But he's too big of a voice.

Speaker 2 (01:07:42):
I guess maybe too big a voice there, because there
will be an Indie Benson Boone. There will be like
somebody being like, I can be indie and still be anthemic,
and that's how we get to Cold Yes, imagine Dagons.

Speaker 3 (01:07:53):
So yeah, the Levita in a Blade of Grass.

Speaker 2 (01:07:57):
But that.

Speaker 1 (01:07:59):
People are saying that this is a worst song on
the album.

Speaker 2 (01:08:02):
What Beast is the worst song by far.

Speaker 3 (01:08:05):
I had trouble with the Beast, but I also, you
know what I liked about the Beast. I know we're
not talking about the Beast, but I really liked how
I like that little like I thought that was sure,
sure that's old, but anyway, Yeah, she's gonna have these.
She's gonna have big, big ballads that are sort of

(01:08:26):
the you know, I think a piano ballad is essentially
her soul, whether yes, whether you wanted to.

Speaker 1 (01:08:32):
Go, does the Beast have what it takes. I mean,
we haven't gotten a You and I in a while.

Speaker 3 (01:08:38):
Well, I think these are supposed to be sort of
in if we're doing an umbrella of the types of
songs she does, I think those fit underneath a little bit.
I mean, she does a piano ballad about love, like
she's got a lot of those, and I think these
are part of that.

Speaker 2 (01:08:53):
Blade of grass is very thousand doves coded to me,
That's that was my first thought too.

Speaker 1 (01:08:58):
In fact, I think I would almost proposition that we
change our rating system from zero to one thousand doves
to zero to one thousand blades of grass.

Speaker 2 (01:09:07):
I think it's a genius move, and I think moving forward,
you know, save for the pre recorded episodes that we
have coming out the next few weeks, we will be
changing it to blades of zero to one thousand blades
of grass.

Speaker 3 (01:09:19):
And it's funny because you guys didn't prepare straight shooters
for me, and so I don't even really get to
even be a part of that, which is kind of
also how I feel sometimes doing.

Speaker 1 (01:09:29):
It's so interesting because we put you on such a
pedestal like this is a very special Yeah, Like to me,
I'm like this is the this is we're interrupting our
normal programming because you know, a queen has entered the chat,
and yet you are thinking of it as us disrespecting
or something.

Speaker 3 (01:09:47):
I feel yeah, like a plastic doll. No, I'm kidding,
I'm kidding, But what do.

Speaker 1 (01:09:54):
You think about the Because to me, something interesting about
Blade of Grass is compared to all the other titles
and all the other visual motifs that we're seeing, a
Blade of Grass is very different. It's actually not. It's
not Halloween coded.

Speaker 3 (01:10:10):
No, well, it's got a story behind it, the Blade
of Grass.

Speaker 2 (01:10:15):
Oh, the story?

Speaker 1 (01:10:15):
Yeah, what's the Blade of Grass story?

Speaker 3 (01:10:17):
I feel like this is the only thing I've ever
learned in the history of learning things, which is that
she she talked about being proposed to by her fiance, Michael,
and he asked how to do it, and she was like,
just take a blade of grass and wrap around my finger.

Speaker 1 (01:10:37):
Oh.

Speaker 2 (01:10:38):
So this is a classic Gaga where I'm like, that's
that's a lie. Like, that's a lie.

Speaker 3 (01:10:43):
But don't you think, like having a bladi of grass
around your finger is so cool? It's so kindergarten core,
which was in the next five months.

Speaker 1 (01:10:52):
Yeah, kindergarten Yeah, after cold Play, Well, it's going to
be coldly into kindergarten core.

Speaker 2 (01:10:57):
Yeah, yeah, it's gonna be kindergarten fall, like everyone's going
to be back to school. I guess.

Speaker 3 (01:11:06):
Nailed it.

Speaker 2 (01:11:08):
And then die with a smile.

Speaker 3 (01:11:10):
Well, I will say I was shocked, much like everybody else,
to see that it actually made some kind of sense
on the record.

Speaker 2 (01:11:18):
Me too, I think it makes a lot of sense
in the context. Yeah, and I could have never predicted that.
Not in my.

Speaker 3 (01:11:27):
Wildest dreams could I ever think a song such as
this could flow so perfectly into the opus that is
may Ham, which I believe it's may Ham Mayhm.

Speaker 1 (01:11:36):
Yes, yes, yes, okay, so okay, gone through the album.

Speaker 2 (01:11:40):
We've gone through the whole album. Here's a straight thought
regarding Michael. I think it's funny that people are talking
about Gaga in context of bear community. People are saying
that Michael is a bear, that she's one of us,
that she likes bears in a way that I think
is so funny because because also I actually do think

(01:12:05):
it's charming and like refreshing that she's just like found
a like average guy, like looking like he's like not
like smelt or like fifteen years younger or something.

Speaker 1 (01:12:17):
She has also been sort of normal looking though, because
she's not someone who has ever gone for the hospitals
and the roster, has she.

Speaker 3 (01:12:29):
What do you think is on Hanks?

Speaker 1 (01:12:32):
Yeah, no, that's a good question. I actually think so
people are so hungry for a normal guy because they
don't exist anywhere, right, This.

Speaker 2 (01:12:40):
Is what I mean.

Speaker 3 (01:12:41):
I think this is kind of the normal undercurrent we're
talking about.

Speaker 1 (01:12:43):
And I actually think you know who's a real pioneer
there is Lana del Rey. Well, I mean I think
she opened the doors. Yes, no, there's no time, but she.
I think the ultimate fetish for straight women, white straight
white women especially, the ultimate fetish is a normal guy
because it's mean you don't find anymore because on the
one hand, you have you know, uh, you know, you

(01:13:05):
have sort of brook guys like Brooklyn fat men'swear guys.
And then huh did you say FAF. Did you say
FAF No, I said Brooklyn, Brooklyn FAF weird?

Speaker 2 (01:13:20):
Pat, I don't know you said Brooklyn FAF.

Speaker 1 (01:13:25):
I did, I said Brooklyn men'swear guys. I did not
said something with.

Speaker 3 (01:13:30):
An F say the letter like like you were British
like faff about that too?

Speaker 1 (01:13:37):
What was Brooklyn faf Brooklyn I, I doesn't want to
make On the one side of things, you have Brooklyn men'swear,
you know, this sort of like fuck boy. And then
on the other side of things we have in cells.
And so those are the two options for women currently
and so there's this well they are trying to find
who is the normal one? Who is the normal one
in the middle.

Speaker 3 (01:13:57):
I think there's so many more veret of weird guys
you didn't touch on.

Speaker 1 (01:14:03):
I mean, I guess again fill in the blanks.

Speaker 3 (01:14:06):
I think, what about the guys that have sort of
the Seneca profile pictures and and the people that.

Speaker 1 (01:14:14):
Streamers And yes there's streamers, Christian photographers.

Speaker 3 (01:14:19):
Christian photographers, Christian.

Speaker 1 (01:14:22):
There's still the poets. Of course there are, of course.
Something I didn't mention is the so called finance bro.
That's a big archetype. They do exist to this day
and age is the finance bro. There's of course a
crypto bro. Yeah, but again all these what they have
in common is that they're not normal, and so women
are desperate for something that's down the line. Well, he's

(01:14:45):
a tech guy, isn't he he's a tech guy.

Speaker 2 (01:14:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:14:49):
Next, let's go over the track list again. Disease, I
love that shit, Aberkada do it again? Great, Pardon to Beaton.
I love those chips.

Speaker 2 (01:15:02):
Next, do we let's talk broad okay, broad strokes. What
do we think? I think personally, I want to say
I'm standing. I think I was uh. I think it's
settling really nicely with me, where at first I was like,
hold on, this is not what I was expecting, And
now I'm finding it to be so fun. I'm finding
part of the charm to be her confidence in it

(01:15:25):
and her like joy in it, where she doesn't seem
like she's saying like do you like this? Like she's
saying like I like this, and that is all that matters.

Speaker 1 (01:15:32):
There's no desperation.

Speaker 3 (01:15:34):
That's what I mean about her embracing like an adulthood.
That feels really good. And I think, you know, we're
talking about all of this, and I we're talking about
what like a modern pop star is, and we're getting
like really heady with it, of course, but also I think,
like Gaga's impact, you just you can't deny you can't

(01:15:55):
deny her unbelievable craft and at at least at at
least giving us something that aims to unite, you know,
a bunch of people get together and dissect this and that,
which is really like I think it's in a moment
where that type of like fanfare over something is struggling.

(01:16:16):
So I welcome I welcome it, you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (01:16:20):
Yeah, I agree. I do think it's really nice for
the community to come together. I've like actually mostly just
enjoyed this weekend and being like everyone's talking about it,
everyone's like having their little opinion, and it's so fun
to be like, God, yeah, Page, I think.

Speaker 3 (01:16:35):
That's what I've been trying to say this whole time,
where it's like having everybody everyone having their little opinion
is like essentially what we're trying to do, what we're
trying to enjoy, you know what I mean, like the
rock world kind of congregating under I just wanted to
drop in and check in about what it even means
to sort of be a fan in this moment in time.

Speaker 2 (01:16:55):
I know, how do you guys feel about aging?

Speaker 3 (01:16:57):
About aging?

Speaker 2 (01:16:59):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:17:00):
If I do it anyway like Gaga, it'll be a
total victory.

Speaker 2 (01:17:07):
Well, I do feel I want to say, like I
find it interesting. Part of the Passage of Time element
is that it is fun to see how she approaches
pop music because I'm you know, as silly people. I'm
sort of like, how do I approach Like when I
hear a Tate McCray song, I'm like, what is my
emotion supposed to be? Like? Am I supposed to love this?
And be like I stand Tate McCrae, Where's my emotion

(01:17:30):
supposed to be? Like that's for children. I'm an adult,
and I think she's like almost giving us a path
forward for frivolity where it's like you don't need to
be like like pretending you're twenty two, and nor do
you need to be pretending you're a hundred.

Speaker 1 (01:17:46):
That's genius yep, And actually like she has done both.
She pretended she was one hundred with Tony Bennett and
with her Oscar campaign she pretended she was twenty two.
Kind of sorry, but like with parts of Gramatica, with
parts of even just like her with Aria I Listen,
I Love rain on Me, but there was something childlike

(01:18:07):
about that. She was sort of like trying it on
for size, Like what if I'm dancing and I'm a
kindness punk and I'm in the rain, and I do
think there is this like she tried one side to
try the other, and now she's come out in the
middle and she seems self actualized. Yeah, and that's kind
of what the best you can hope for.

Speaker 2 (01:18:27):
Yeah, I find that to be good. I think.

Speaker 3 (01:18:32):
Yeah, any response, I was gonna ask a question about
if you could design an album, if you could design
a either a Gaga album, I guess, or like a
pop star which you would feel like lifted up and
electrified by by this combination of things that they did,

(01:18:52):
what would it be?

Speaker 1 (01:18:58):
So your question is what would our her dream pop
STARB Is that so crazy?

Speaker 2 (01:19:05):
I'm not. I didn't say.

Speaker 1 (01:19:06):
It's so crazy.

Speaker 3 (01:19:07):
Yeah, sort of you were like, okay, wow, here's this,
here's this.

Speaker 1 (01:19:11):
They do this type of She's like this nine feet.

Speaker 2 (01:19:14):
Tall, right. She has Whitney Houston's vocals, got it writing,
but she actually doesn't use them.

Speaker 1 (01:19:22):
She does all auto tune. It sounds really bad. It's
like Kim Petra's auto tune.

Speaker 3 (01:19:26):
But she has a voice.

Speaker 2 (01:19:27):
She has she has a voice.

Speaker 1 (01:19:29):
She just saying karaoke. You would be shocked. But she
refuses on principle to do that when she gets into
the studio.

Speaker 2 (01:19:36):
I'm gonna say something really controversial. Her hair it's ombre,
it's ombre.

Speaker 3 (01:19:41):
So and when we're talking about what kind of colors,
we're talking brown to blonde.

Speaker 1 (01:19:45):
Yeah, yeah, the traditional brass blonde.

Speaker 2 (01:19:47):
And she's nine nine feet tall with ombray beach waves.

Speaker 1 (01:19:51):
At hell, those beach waves are going straight down, like
down to her anger as to her ass, nine foot
beach waves from her head down to her ankles.

Speaker 3 (01:20:04):
Got it.

Speaker 1 (01:20:05):
She has the voice of an angel, but you literally
wouldn't know it. In fact, everyone is singing. She sounds
she clearly like has no vocal talent. That's what she
always has autotune.

Speaker 3 (01:20:15):
There is no one even the controversy about her ability
to sing. But secretly she s.

Speaker 1 (01:20:21):
But and she as part of her as part of
her act, like as part of her performance and her
like you know, performance of self. She she is not
revealing that she can sing.

Speaker 2 (01:20:35):
And she like every time she has a live performance
where she's like I'm doing like we're all like, a
fly flies into her mouth and she like, and so
people think she can't sing, like there's no proof that
she can sing.

Speaker 1 (01:20:46):
Singing live, she's singing singing into an autotune mic.

Speaker 2 (01:20:51):
And so it like she's like, you know, it's like
not beating the can't sing allegations, I fear, and actually
there are.

Speaker 1 (01:20:57):
All these yeah, and there are all these like bootlegs.
It's like people that have been in the studio with
her know she can sing, and so there's like all
these rumors like, yeah, there's these are the real vocals
to Sound of Change, but no one Sound of Changes
the album. It's one of the singles, but it was
one of the less successful ones.

Speaker 3 (01:21:15):
So so she's okay, So I'm just saying the album, Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:21:19):
This is no the album.

Speaker 2 (01:21:21):
The album is called critically back, two steps back.

Speaker 3 (01:21:26):
Okay, Now, keep in mind, as you agree on that
this is like the biggest album, it's her. I would
say it's her. It's it's cementing her as part of
a great lineage of pop acts, and it's critically and.

Speaker 2 (01:21:41):
You have to it's like one of those things where
like if you try to explain it to like a child,
they're like, I don't see why this was good, and
you're like, trust me.

Speaker 3 (01:21:50):
So what is that two steps back?

Speaker 1 (01:21:51):
It's referencing a famous review of one of her other albums.
That's saying she took one step forward, two steps back.
Who wrote that pitch four, The New York Times. New
York Times wrote it, amy, by the.

Speaker 3 (01:22:04):
Way, it's not so wild to even suggest that Pitchfork
could be doing that, since they review pop albums.

Speaker 1 (01:22:09):
By the way, no, I know, but this is I mean,
in this be so she's not commenting on Pitchfork like
that would.

Speaker 3 (01:22:16):
Be so, by the way, I think you, I think
you fundamentally misunderstand the media landscape. But pitchforks like whatever. Okay, okay,
So New York Times said once at four two steps back,
she's coming out swinging with this album. What are the
sounds that we're hearing.

Speaker 1 (01:22:35):
Well, it's obviously electroclash.

Speaker 3 (01:22:38):
I hear electric clash.

Speaker 2 (01:22:41):
I'm hearing electroclash. I mean it's it's it has some
euro dance elements.

Speaker 1 (01:22:47):
It's eurodance means heavy metal.

Speaker 2 (01:22:49):
One thing is that she's always seen at clubs, like
she actually does go out.

Speaker 3 (01:22:54):
Okay, always at clubs Georgia anything.

Speaker 1 (01:22:56):
I'm doing a mad because she's of course nine feet tall,
so she it's like she can't really hide from the paparazzi.

Speaker 2 (01:23:02):
Yeah, she is polyamorous, m hmm, bisexual.

Speaker 1 (01:23:07):
Bisexual, and she does. She's she says controversial things like
she'll like randomly say like the f slur, but it's
like she kind of can. It's like weird, she kind
of can. But she also in her normal life is
like maybe super trad and like, isn't she's polytrad. She's polytrad. Yeah,

(01:23:32):
she's like more men basically. And in terms of her fashion,
she tried to like the fashion world tried to embrace her,
but then she literally was like these are just a
bunch of faggots like that was she was just like,
I don't want to be around this many gay men.

Speaker 3 (01:23:49):
She's not fashion. She is she she is fashion.

Speaker 1 (01:23:53):
It's complicated. She'll wear like a large nightgown.

Speaker 2 (01:23:58):
So does that answer your question?

Speaker 3 (01:23:59):
Yeah, well I'm just tallying it up and I'm crunching
the numbers.

Speaker 1 (01:24:03):
So it's the result of the number.

Speaker 3 (01:24:07):
Well, I I really, I really didn't plan this, and
I don't mean to even be saying this, but you
have described more than not Lady Gaga herself, and I'm
not even exaggerating or reaching here has a voice, but
doesn't have a voice. She's I mean, being five foot

(01:24:32):
tall is a lot like being nine foot's controversial singing
live fly in her throat. I think that happens sort.

Speaker 1 (01:24:38):
Of being secretly tad. I definitely think Gaga really wants
a husband.

Speaker 2 (01:24:42):
I mean you've seen her at home, right, so.

Speaker 3 (01:24:44):
Just think the qualities you've touched on here are qualities
of the woman herself.

Speaker 2 (01:24:49):
Well, that's huge. I mean I think that time will
keep on passing and that Gaga will keep keep on standing,
and I'm so curious as to how she'll reflect on
us next time.

Speaker 1 (01:25:02):
I agree. Yeah, God bless her, God bless her.

Speaker 2 (01:25:05):
Shout out to Mayhem. I you know, life is chaos
and you really prove that. Yeah, I'm so glad the
community can come together. And being in your thirties is
actually rocks.

Speaker 3 (01:25:19):
I wish I knew, but it was like.

Speaker 2 (01:25:22):
Yeah, you're forty seven, right, you skipped that.

Speaker 1 (01:25:26):
And I just want to say, go out there and
reheat your own nachos because you deserve it.

Speaker 2 (01:25:33):
Amy does that make you mad?

Speaker 3 (01:25:34):
No, it doesn't, It doesn't at all. And yeah, this
was really fun and I want to say thank you
for having me because I know we can have a
little fun here and there. But I'm honored to do
this with you guys. And yeah, I don't know, it
feels sometimes like what we say about this could have
real geopolitical impacts.

Speaker 2 (01:25:55):
So it will.

Speaker 3 (01:25:57):
Yeah, sometimes I can feel, yeah, like a lot on
the line. But when I'm with you guys, I think
I feel safe.

Speaker 2 (01:26:05):
Blade of Grass, And it's the honor to have you
on and to discuss this, this artist and this artwork.
You have incredible insights and always have and always will.
And we can't wait to have you back when we
don't need to discuss yeah, and some of the most
important pieces of work of all time and can just
gab and.

Speaker 1 (01:26:24):
Goof Yeah, what's your straight topic going to be next time?

Speaker 3 (01:26:27):
Go my straight topic for next time?

Speaker 1 (01:26:30):
Hot sauce, Hot sauce. All right, huge, love that, See
you in.

Speaker 2 (01:26:35):
Cold Play Summer.

Speaker 3 (01:26:36):
See you in cold Play Summer.

Speaker 2 (01:26:38):
Okay, bye bye podcast and now want more?

Speaker 1 (01:26:42):
Subscribe to our Patreon for two extra episodes a month,
discord access and more by heading to patreon dot com.
Slash Stradio Lab and for all our visual earners, free
full length video episodes are available on our YouTube now
get back to work.

Speaker 2 (01:26:56):
Stradia Lab is a production by Will Ferrell's Big Money
Players Network and iHeart podcasts.

Speaker 1 (01:27:01):
Created and hosted by George Severis and Sam Taggart.

Speaker 2 (01:27:04):
Executive produced by Will Ferrell, Han Soni and Olivia Aguilar.
Co produced by Bai Wang, Edited and engineered by Adam Avalos.
Artwork by Michael Fails and Matt Grubg. Theme music by
Ben Kling

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