Episode 73: Ultimate Paranormal Detective and Historian: Vance Pollock!

The conclusion to the Unsolved Mystery!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
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(00:23):
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proper amount of research yourself, depending on the subject matter
and your needs. M Get ready. This is Strange Things

(01:10):
with Joshua Warren. I am Joshua pe Warren. At each
week on this show, I'll be bringing you brand new
mind blowing content, news exercises, and weird experiments you can
do at home, and a lot more. On this edition

(01:34):
of the program, the Ultimate paranormal detective and historian Vance Pollock.
And listen to this he will reveal for the first
time ever what he thinks happened to my great uncle
Claude Callaway, who vanished in the mountains of western North

(01:58):
Carolina in the nineteen thirties. It's an unsolved mystery, and
after fifteen years of research, listen to Vance to give
me his conclusion for the first time. Now. I have
known Vance Pollock for many, many years. He was raised
in central Florida and has a bachelor's degree in journalism.

(02:21):
But he eventually settled around my hometown of Asheville, North Carolina,
and I met him there when he was researching one
of the area's most controversial historical figures. You'll hear about that.
I'm six ft two. Advance is a tall, thin six
ft seven I think, with striking blue eyes, and he

(02:43):
just towers over everyone. And yet he usually comes across
as quiet and gentle, is a springtime breeze with this
warm voice to match. He'll chuckle hearing that. His official
bio says he's smarter than he looks. You can tell
we are good friends. And when I was living in

(03:06):
Puerto Rico and no longer had the time to host
my old radio show called Speaking of Strange, I asked
Vance to take over for me. That's how much I
think of him. He is a music aficionado who also
regularly travels to some of the world's oddest places, like Iceland,
where he lived for years. But here's the thing that

(03:28):
stands out most about him. Advance was born with a
destiny as an historian and librarian and investigator. He'll become
struck by some person in history, no matter how regional
or forgotten or obscure, and he will decide to dig
into that person and that person's connections, and then something

(03:51):
magical happens. A sort of synchronicity kicks in, a serendipity.
It's almost like the spirits begin speaking to him and
guiding him. And then amazingly he discovers new things in
in cemeteries, in books, in his daily experiences. These elements

(04:13):
of the past just sort of reveal themselves to him.
They just manifest for him. And I know how strange
this sounds, but you're about to hear some examples and
you'll understand more. And this is why I affectionately call
him Sherlock Pollock. It's not easy to figure out how

(04:34):
to introduce him properly, so without further ado, here he
is a Vance Pollock. Welcome to the show. A pleasure
to be here with you, Josh. I mean, we've had
some We've had some wild adventures over the years, haven't we.
How many movies could we make? There's no telling, I mean,

(04:57):
and and nobody would believe them. It'll It reminds me
of the Mark Twain quote that, uh, well that the
truth is stranger than fiction because fiction has to make sense. Um.
And so yeah, we have known each other a long time.
We have had so many strange and truly unbelievable adventures.

(05:19):
And let me just ask you, as an historian and investigator,
at what point in your life did your current curious
personality seem to congeal into what you are today? Uh.
The idea of communicating with people beyond the grave I

(05:40):
was always interesting, not just ghost stories, but ghost stories
with information. You know, because you talk of course your
listeners they understand the difference between essentient spirit and an imprint.
And in many cases, I think what people are experiencing
when they have ghostly encounters it is just like a

(06:01):
loop from uh, some experience or some energy that a
living person had had spent in that space, perhaps so
many times that they had almost burned a channel there.
In my experience, I have had information imparted to me

(06:21):
in ways that defy coincidence. Now, you have always been
a very rational person, that you're a critical thinker, a
fact finder. What was an early case that convinced you
ghosts are more than just fodder for campfire? Tells? I

(06:43):
sat in my house, the house where I grew up
that my my father and mother built. Um and I
know I was absolutely alone in the room with Josh.
And every time I recount this sometimes they get emotional.
I can almost feel that here's stand up on the
back of my neck because it's absolutely true. I sat
in the living room and looked across the room to

(07:06):
a door leading into a bedroom on the other side.
And that was the bedroom where my grandmother stayed with
my parents when she was quite elderly, and she had
she had been dead for some years by this time.
We'll say she had been dead for ten years or more,
because I was a teenager at this point. And the

(07:30):
house is just a small bungalow so that you can
walk from the living room into the kitchen, dining area,
into the hallway and into that bedroom. Uh. And it's
it's not really uh, you know, no effort to walk around.
And my parents are kind of like me. They're kind
of like pat rats. So in the intervening years since

(07:51):
my grandmother had passed away, a table and a bookshelf
and more stuff piled up on that side of the
living room in front of that door, so that we
didn't even use that door into the bedroom anymore. To
go into that bedroom, you just walked through the kitchen
and into the hallway and into the bedroom. But I
was sitting in the living room reading late one night,
absolutely alone in the house, and I looked up at

(08:13):
that door to that bedroom because I heard a rattle,
and that door knob was very slowly and deliberately turning
back and forth, back and forth. And I was petrified
for a second, and I felt those chills, and finally
I got up the nerve to walk around through the

(08:34):
kitchen into the hallway and peer into the bedroom. And
obviously there was there was nothing there, but I I
swear I saw that door knob turn. And that's that's
what I call my believer experience. I think all believers,
all true believers, have had some experience that is beyond
the pale. You know, uh, if you had seen that
UFO you would never doubt it. If you had seen

(08:57):
that door knob turned by itself, you could not doubt
that there's something else out there. Yeah, there's no substitute
for the personal experience. And once you open your mind
to these things and you start noticing more than there
are actually more signs and pieces of evidence around us

(09:17):
than most people realize on a daily basis. We'll get
to that the first off. So let's hear you're a
version of how we met. You and I we met
what going on fifteen years ago, easily believe it or not.
I think it was about two thousand seven. I probably

(09:37):
still got the uh, the messages and the emails, um.
But you had in those days the Lemur Forum because
in the days before the social media being what it
is now, forums were a popular thing. People would go
go on and post a subject and then everyone could
join in the conversation. But the Lemur Forum was is

(10:00):
a great outlet for all sorts of paranormal discussion in
those days. And I chimed in about a location in
built More Village which I knew to have been associated
with a publisher by the name of William Dudley Pelley. Well,
he was more than a publisher. He's a he is

(10:23):
a grand character in in weird lore, especially here in
the Mountains. But I chimed in on the Lemur Forum
and said, there was a publisher holding seances and writing
books about communicating with the dead in this building in

(10:43):
the late nineteen thirties. And do you remember your reaction
when I posted a photograph of that building on the forum. Oh? Yeah,
it was shocking because I had already been investigating ghostly
activity at that building, having no knowledge whatsoever about William
Dudley Pelly and what you were simultaneously researching. I mean,

(11:05):
it was one of those many examples of what you
were investigating and what I was investigating dovetelling. And it
was only a short time later that you and some
of the Lemur team from that time Forrest Connor included
Mica Hanks was on board at that time, met in
West Asheville at a little sandwich shop at the time

(11:27):
it was Pineapple Jack sandwich Shop, but that had been
another location where William Dudley Pelly had his printing plant
um right there on Haywood Road in West Asheville. So
now I want us to dig into William Dudley Pelley.
But first to give everybody who is is just hearing

(11:50):
about your work for the first time a better idea
of how you work. Um, I talk a lot about
you and how that sync nicity tends to assist you
in your research. So to help give everybody a clear
understanding of what I mean, what are some examples of
how synchronicity has helped you and give us some sort

(12:13):
of good scinc stories. Time for us to pause for
a quick break. But listen. I have some exciting news
and updates I will be sharing with you soon. The
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(12:34):
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I am Joshua Pee Warren and you are listening to

(12:55):
strange things on the I Heart Radio and Coast to
Coast a m paranormal podcast Network, and I will be
right back. Welcome back to Strange Things on the I

(13:41):
Heart Radio and Coast to Coast AM Parinormal Podcast Network.
I'm your host, the Wizard of Weird, Joshua P. Warren.
And now let's get back to my conversation with the
paranormal detective Vance Pollock. Good Ample. I will give this

(14:01):
is not necessarily the first story I would tell people. Actually,
I don't know if you've even heard this one, Josh,
because it's a it's kind of a shocking one. And
I have to be careful even telling this story because
some of the family are still in the area and
it's it's a it's a touchy one. Um. But there's

(14:21):
a little bar and music hall on Patton Avenue in Asheville,
North Carolina called Jack of the Wood. You know Jack
of the Wood. Um. In the nineteen thirties, again, there
were printing presses in there and they were churning out.
People are going to be like, wow. Asheville actually in

(14:43):
the nineteen thirties was printing all this sort of heretical, religious,
strange sort of material. Yes, this town for for small
presses and authors of paranormal subjects. I think Ashville had
more people per capita engaged in that than perhaps any

(15:07):
other place in the country. Um. So there's a small
print shop on Patton Avenue where Jack of the Wood
is now, and they were printing some channeled messages, that is,
spirit communications and putting out these small pamphlets and brochures
and booklets and things like this. And the wife of

(15:28):
the owner was a woman, and i'll use her name.
I'll use her maiden name because it has a great
resonance to it. Her maiden name was Gladys Lord Jenkins,
So I will refer to Gladys by her proper name,
Gladys Lord Jenkins. And Gladys Lord Jenkins was absorbed with

(15:49):
seances and spirit communication and all this sort of thing.
And a lot of people will tell you that if
you become too obsessed with that sort of thing, you
tend to sort of lose your mind. Um. And from
what I could gather, that was the case with Gladys
Lord Jenkins. That she and her husband had gradually drifted

(16:13):
apart and then separated and he had her committed. Now
this is coming down from another generation of people talking
about their father's previous life. Gladys was his first wife,
and so he went on to have another family. It
was almost like he had another chapter to his life.

(16:34):
But during that first marriage, Uh, they had adopted a
child who had grown up and and also gone her
separate way. And as I was talking to some of
the younger children, one of them expressed to me, I
would like to know what happened to my older adopted sister.

(16:59):
And I said, that's a tough one because Gladys, you know,
if she she got committed, she kind of slipped and
went off the deep end. Uh that it's it's gonna
be tough to try and pin down an adoption from
So I told him, I'm gonna I'm gonna try and
reach out to Gladys and see if I can get

(17:22):
some information on on your older adopted sister, just so
they could kind of compare notes. He could learn a
little more about his father as a younger man. As
the younger man that he never really knew. He said,
his father never talked about that that previous life. And
so I'm standing in the storeroom above Jack of the

(17:43):
Wood and I'm imagining this is the nineteen thirties. Gladys
is on the premises on a daily basis there if
if she had walked this path, you know, dozens of
times before, maybe maybe she left some energy in this room.

(18:04):
And I stood there and I felt I felt a
like a small charge, like a low voltage electricity. I could,
I could feel the buzz. Will call it. And I
asked in my head, but very loudly and very very clearly, gladys,
if you're out there, and if you wouldn't mind communicating

(18:27):
to me, I want to find I want to find
your adoptive daughter. And Joshua, this is I mean, no,
no joke. I went away from there. I slept on it,
and the next day it was like a hunch. And
this is often the way it works when I when
I make progress or when I break through these these
brick walls of research. The next day I had a

(18:50):
hunch and it was vague but specific enough that I
went to the right place, and that is the the
Small Claims Court at the Bunkombe County Courthouse. And I
don't know why you would why you would go to
the Hall of Records. It's like they keep the records

(19:12):
for Small Claims Court and the inferior court records in
a little building off of the lobby kind of tucked
away in the back. And I had been in the courthouse,
and I've been to the Register of Deeds, and I
had been in all these other offices there on the
off the lobby of the uh the County courthouse, dozens

(19:32):
of times, and I had never even been in this
little room that's tucked away, uh in the back corner.
And I'm a tall guy. I actually had just crouched
down to get through the door, because it's like you're
walking into an old fault and the books and the
index is back. There are all these huge books on rollers,

(19:55):
like no joke books that are like three ft tall
and way you know, thirty pounds, and you pick them
up and you put them on these rollers to move
them around. Uh. This is the way we used to
do it before the digital age. And I pulled one
of these indexes and I looked up Gladys's husband's name

(20:16):
in one of these old indexes from the nineteen thirties.
And what we had there was basically like a directory
with names, and I did find Gladys's husband's name, and
off to the side there were probably at least a
dozen different entries for catalog records referring to some inferior

(20:39):
court judgment or some business application on his behalf. So
I just chose. I just basically put my number down
in this huge book and picked out one of the
records associated with his name, and uh jotted it down
on a slip of paper in handed it to the

(21:00):
clerk there, and she rolled her eyes and she says,
that's a tough one. I can't even reach it. And
she pointed up on the wall and the way this
old courthouse was built, by the way, and what they
had installed in the walls in nineteen were these metal

(21:20):
file shelves. They're about the about the size of, you know,
a regular plastic file folder that you might keep on
the shelf now, but they're these these huge green metal
files that actually shelve into the wall. So on the
wall behind this woman looks like a scene out of
the movie Brazil, and there's this green file with the

(21:45):
number in paper slipped down in the front of it.
She says, I can't even reach it. It's that one
up there. And I reached up and, like I said,
a tall guy, and I reached up and grabbed it,
and it's over my head. And when I pulled this
green metal file out. Literally coal dust, black coal dust
fell out of that shelf and choked us. And the

(22:08):
WO was like, yeah, this place is uh full of
coal dust, and if if those files haven't moved in
forty or fifty years, they're full of the stuff. So
I literally pulled this file. It's half filled with black
coal dust down, and it's got all these little envelopes

(22:29):
with you know, the round uh, the round piece on
the envelope flap and the little string so you make
a figure eight with a string to draw the the
envelope clothes. So it's like these yellowed old envelopes that
have just been tied off with a string, tossed in
one of these file drawers and shoved into the wall

(22:51):
for sixty seventy years. At that point, and I find
the numbered file for Gladys's husband, And when I opened
that file, what do you think is in there? It's
the adoption papers for their daughter filed in Richland County,
South Carolina. They're not even local documents. But for whatever reason,

(23:15):
this file that I pulled contained a copy from another
state of the adoption record of exactly who I was
looking for, and the information in that file provided me
with her her birth name and her date of birth,

(23:35):
and using that information, I was able to find this
woman quite easily, use public records and dates of birth
and and and a you know, a legal name, and
it's not too hard to find a person. And she
was still living at that time in Tennessee, and I
managed to call her up on the phone and I said,

(23:59):
I'm hauling too just to reach out to you, to
let you know that you have a family, so to speak,
you know, adopted siblings back here in Asheville who were
thinking about you and wanted to know about you. And
kind of as an aside, I asked, um, do you

(24:19):
know whatever became of Gladys Lord Jenkins? And I could
hear her take a breath, and it was a comfortable
question for her, I realized. She said, the last time
I saw Gladys, she was trying to shove me into
a furnace in the basement of our house. And I thought, oh,

(24:44):
my word, I just stepped in it. I have really
opened a can of worms. And she did break down
and cry on the phone with me, and I apologized
for her for being, you know, insensitive with that line
of questioning, but that I was glad to find find her.
I re reunited her with her her younger adopted siblings,

(25:04):
and they now exchange or at least, you know, for
some time after that, exchanged Christmas cards and we're you know, reunited.
So it had a happy ending. But when I asked
her about Gladys and she said, the last time I
saw glad she was trying to shove me in the furnace.
That was That was pretty intense. You're listening to Strange
Things on the I Heart Radio and Coast to Coast

(25:26):
damn parinormal podcast network. And I'll be right back. Welcome

(26:00):
back to Strange Things on the I Heart Radio and
Coast to Coast. Ay am para normal podcast network. I
am your host, Joshua P. Warren, and this is the
show where the unusual becomes usual. And now back to
my conversation with Vance Pollock. I know that you could

(26:23):
sit here for hours and tell story after story along
those lines about how the you get a hunch and
you just follow it, and it's almost like you're being
guided by some aspect of the universe. I know sometimes
you'll just go to a cemetery and walk around and
stumble upon something amazingly related to your work, right? Can

(26:47):
you give it an example of that? Oh, I can
give you the perfect example. It was just a few
weeks before we had our encounter with John Lyriley. I
don't know if you realize it, but I went back
and I found an email h that just the week
or two before we encountered the ghost of Sheriff John Liarley,

(27:08):
I had walked over his grave and sent a note
to a friend of mine who is also a local historian,
and said, I was out at beaver Dam Cemetery today
and I stumbled across a Liarly grave. Weren't there some
Liarley's in local law enforcement? And the fact that I

(27:29):
had just seen that name on a tombstone was enough
for me to keep pursuing that line of research. And
that's where the John Liarley story came out. Actually, that
that's like the pre the precursor, that's like the preface
to the John Lierley story, is that a week or
two before our encounter, I had actually walked past his

(27:52):
grave out there at beaver Dam. And it's not like
a big prominent cemetery, I mean, and I stumbled across
that Liarley Gray just a couple of weeks before we
encountered the Sheriff Lyarley's spirit, which, uh, it turns out
was a suicide. Yeah, suicide for people who need to

(28:14):
be refreshed on this, because I've talked about it on
this podcast. I mean, you know, I was working with
you to create this version of a local sort of
mystery museum, uh, with Stuart Coleman, and we ended up
being able to use the old jail house over there
nearest City County Plaza and Asheville, and we knew the

(28:37):
place was haunted, but we didn't know precisely why. I mean,
you know, most jails are probably haunted. UM. And then
you know, long story short, one evening, a cat one
of the guides there, she was alone, and she walked
into a tall, dark, very scary apparition of a man,

(28:57):
so scary that she closed up and left. And Uh,
the thing that is astounding to me is that that
exact same day, you knew absolutely nothing about her experience,
and you contacted me to let me know that you
had just discovered that that day was the day that
Sheriff John Liarley had committed suicide. Uh. In that building

(29:22):
what like eighty years before or ninety years before, I
mean a long time before. That was the date. I'm like,
there's no way that could be a coincidence, you know,
there's just no way in in that very location that's
right at that look. And our messages were basically crossing
one another as cats sending you these message messages. You

(29:44):
and I are are sending messages back and forth. And
I sent you the article that says, uh, Buncombe County
Sheriff commits suicide. Um, and you respond to Your first
response was did you notice the date? I had pulled
that article without even noticing that it was that day's eighth.

(30:06):
So you pointed out that significance, and I got, you know,
I felt a shudder. And the next thing I hear
from you very shortly after that is that Kat, who
was a guide and docent there in the museum, had
bumped into this figure in the room in the back
part of the building, which was specifically where he had
shot himself. We found out when year after year you

(30:30):
consistently have these types of scenarios where it almost seems
like the spirit, for lack of a better word, of
a deceased person starts to guide you to what once
you take an interest in that person. Um, if you
consider that, and and again, I've known you so long,

(30:53):
I just to me, I expected, It's just it's normal
to me for this to happen to you. But what
have you earned about the overall nature and makeup of
reality from these experiences? I believe that every personality, most
certainly and likely most every event or episode in a

(31:16):
person's life is recorded somewhere on the time loop. You know.
Maybe it's akin to what some Eastern religions referred to
as the Akashic record, where every everything is recorded. Uh.
And I do in a way sort of associated with

(31:38):
with a grand library and having worked done family history
and genealogy so much, I draw a lot of parallels
to that. In the case of something like here's another
Josh store you can, I'm gonna be pulling references to
things that your listeners may not be all that privy to.

(31:58):
But like Josh's uncle Claude Callaway the story of Claude
Callaway's disappearance. UM. After doing some research on Claude Callaway, UM,
I found out that he had been twice married and
he had children at the time he disappeared. Now that

(32:19):
was something you didn't know, and you might have thought
the way it was told to you, with the way
it was handed down, that he was just a young
man in you know, early prime of his life that
just vanished. But he had there was more to it
than that. After digging a little bit into the historic record,
I began to see that Claude Callaway had troubles. You know,

(32:41):
he had blues um leading up to his disappearance. And Josh,
I want to tell you that the my instincts tell
me that your uncle Claude Callaway wandered off into the
mountains somewhere and drank poison. Yes, that's my my intuition

(33:04):
is that your uncle Claude Callaway had had that second
failed marriage. Uh, the kids had been taken away from him,
he had moved back in with his father um, and
he was he was depressed, and at that point he
just stood up from that porch and walked off into

(33:24):
those woods. And you know how remote even today some
of these places out around Barnardsville and Coleman boundary. If
you wandered into those woods for a day, you would
be you would be gone, You would vanish for all
intent and purpose. And I believe that your uncle Claude
Callaway stood up from his father's porch that afternoon and

(33:47):
started walking, and he walked and he walked, and he
walked into the woods, and in his pocket he had
a bottle of carbolic acid, which would basically be like
drain cleaner, but it was something that you could you
could pick up anywhere. And the reason I specifically think
carbolic acid is because his mother in law, the mother

(34:10):
of his second wife who he had the children with,
she had committed suicide by carbolic acid. So it would
have been something that was very prominent in his thinking.
It would not have been a foreign concept to him.
And should he want to just disappear and never be
heard from again, never trouble anyone again, it would have
been so simple for him to to fix a little

(34:33):
glass bottle of drain cleaner and walk off into the
woods and and swil that down and be gone. And
that's that's the And I felt that way for a
few years now, and I don't know if you and
I got to that point where we talked about it.
So here I'm just telling you I think your uncle
Claude did away with himself. Well, that's uh, the fact

(34:54):
that he may have killed himself is certainly very plausible.
That's what a horrible way to go. I can't imagine
one he do that. Um, but you know, it's it's
odd that they never found a trace of him, and
I guess we'll never know for sure. I'm really glad
that you have done this kind of research. I mean,
it's marvelous to have a friend like you, because you know,

(35:16):
I have come to you again and again, uh and
and ask you to just help me get to the
bottom of of some place, some situation, and you always
come up with the most amazing insight. So let's okay, Now,
let's get to this fella who has just become probably

(35:38):
the major player in your research all these years. We
we mentioned him already, William Dudley Pelly. What a mysterious
and controversial guy. I bet most people listening to this
have never heard of him before. So why can you
tell us about him and what he may have been

(35:59):
up to from a paranormal point of view, and why
that you're so intrigued? Well, to call William Dudley Pelley
and eccentric is probably about the nicest thing you'll hear
about the fellow, especially in the mainstream And as I've
told people, as I continue researching and writing about the man, UH,

(36:22):
just judging from the first couple of paragraphs of his
Wikipedia page, if you were to look up William Dudley Pelly, UH,
if there aren't enough smear words and and UH bad
to ju there to scare you away, UM, you might
worry for your soul because this guy is so thoroughly

(36:43):
demonized throughout contemporary accounts and nowadays, Uh he's mostly forgotten,
but when he is referred to, it's always in the
same breath as Hitler, Uh, Nazis, fascist, anti semi, etcetera, etcetera.
But I began to sort of envision his uh is

(37:08):
crazy like a Fox way of promoting himself. And I
think I'm onto something because throughout the nineteen thirties he
was the head of a militia and occult militia as
a matter of fact, called the Silver Legion of America,
better known as the Silver Shirts. They also believed in

(37:29):
spirit communication and channeling and all of these sort of things.
And time for a break. When we come back, I'll
wrap up my conversation with the paranormal detective Vance Pollock.
I'm Joshua P. Warren. You're listening to Strange Things on
the I Heart Radio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal

(37:50):
Podcast Network. I'll be right back. Welcome back to the

(38:28):
final segment of this edition of Strange Things on the
I Heart Radio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network.
I'm your host, Joshua Pete Warren, and now back to
my conversation with Vance Pollock talking about William Dudley Pelly

(38:50):
and his eccentric group. And one of the first things
that people will do to discredit Pelly is to remind
us that he had an experience where he quote unquote
died and went to heaven and that he came back
claiming to be channeling Christ, which in a manner of speaking,

(39:11):
is accurate. He did claim to have had a near
death experience or an out of body experience where he
found himself in the company of deceased friends, and after
he woke up from that experience or came came back
through the veil, Uh, he said that he was communicating

(39:33):
with these people Claire audiently and gradually he says that
the clear audience messages he's receiving are more and more profound,
and using a lady in his company to take down
some of these messages through automatic writing. That that's kind
of an old fashioned version of the Luigi board, basically
where a man is holding a woman's wrist and she's

(39:56):
holding a pencil, and the pencil writes on a pad
of paper or the message, much as you would get
the message from the planchet on Norwegia board or a
spirit board. In the company of this woman, Kelly said
he first experienced what he called the master vibration, where
the room almost felt like it was shaking, almost as

(40:16):
if there were were an earthquake, and um under that influence,
he took down the first of what he called his
Golden Scripts, which he later believed were his sole purpose
in this lifetime to record these master messages, which are

(40:37):
kind of like Kelly's version of the Book of Mormon.
But anyway, I realized that he knew as he exposed
himself to publicly as as the leader of this organization,
that he would be uh demonized in the mainstream, and
that he also realized coming out of Hollywood, where he

(40:58):
had been a writer and a publicity agent for celebrities
in Hollywood during the nineteen twenties, during that silent era
of film that any publicity is good publicity. And he
really embraced any sort of sensationalism or extreme sort of
over the top descriptions that he could get as long

(41:20):
as it got him ink. As they say in the
publicity business. Uh, any publicity's good publicity. So he allowed
them to say all of this, calling what they will
in the paper. Uh. He never really tried to correct
any of that. He allowed himself to be branded an
arch villain. So that's where American arch Villain uh came

(41:44):
as the working title for the series of essays I'm
writing about him. Now. Yeah, now this is on sub stack, right,
How can people see what you're you're up to there?
All right? Well, the American arch Villain sub stack project
is at archville dot sub stack dot com. And I

(42:04):
want those essays to the familiar people, uh, people familiar
with Pelly's life and work to a degree, I want
them to see that I've really put in the research
and that is uh. During the nineteen nineties, I interviewed
not less than twelve people who were acquainted with Pelly

(42:25):
and his movement who were in their eighties at that time,
and of course they're all a long gone now, um,
but I had collected the number of firsthand accounts from
people who were associated with Pelly, acquainted with him, and
now I'm I'm trying to get all of this information

(42:45):
and there's there's literally they're literally tubs and notebooks full
of information that I've collected on this fellow over the
last thirty years. And if there's anybody who wants to
reach out to me, you can certainly do it through that,
uh that current Pelly writing project, which is the American
arch Villain and it's at arch Villain dot sub stack

(43:08):
dot com and you can contact me through the sub
stack page that way, and if you need help with spelling,
that is A R C h V I L L
A I N dot s U B S T A
c K dot com, arch Villain dot substack dot com.

(43:29):
Thanks so much to Vance for being on the show
and listen. You should just follow him however you can,
because goodness knows where his research will lead him and
he's always up to something. So that was a lot
of fun, and you know, think about this, uh one
thing that's refreshing about Vance's approach is that I could
say to somebody like, how do you investigate spirits? And

(43:52):
the person goes, well, I get my E M F meter,
and then I get my infrared camera and then I
get my audio recorder. That Vance says it due an
you that uh, he just sort of opens his mind
and sort of asked the universe to show him the
way and then things. He's very observant. He starts noticing

(44:13):
things and the universe kind of leads him along the
pathway to discovery. And for those of you who are
interested in doing spiritual research but you're not very like
tech oriented or whatever, I mean, this can be a
very effective and um and much more organic simple way
of you sort of approaching this process of tapping into

(44:36):
the acoustic record or something like that. So there's a
lot to learn from studying advances approach. So so great
to talk to him. Hey, let me see if I
can squeeze in a listener email before we are out
of time. This comes from Danielle. She wrote, I don't
even know where to start, Joshua. I have so much

(44:58):
I want to share with you, but there are so
many events, so much detail. I'll just have to try
and stay on point. I've been desperately searching for you,
not knowing who you would be. I put it out there,
allowed and clear to the universe that I need some
sort of clarification, and you're the only person that is
spoken of and described these strange things or even the

(45:21):
possibility of and such such of a way that I
can relate to. I can say that I've experienced about
everything strange over the last two years, from portals and
parallel dimensions, shadow and hat people, entities, creatures, demons, ghost, extraterrestrials, UFOs,

(45:42):
you name it. The majority of these experiences occurred in
a home I was renting in East Texas. I believe
there was a portal very strongly. It was a hell house.
I didn't even believe in this sort of thing, or
that any of this was possible. I heavily questioned myself

(46:02):
at first, but I wasn't the only one to have
the experience. I knew without proof, though, that not only
would no one believe me, but I wouldn't believe myself.
So I started to document everything visible or not. I
knew I was seeing things, but more so I could
feel the presence. I started taking pictures, videos, recording sounds,

(46:23):
looking for an explanation to this phenomenon, or just simply
that nothing would be actually there. When I looked at
the images, hundreds of photos turned into thousands and thousands
more and thousands more, and it literally consumed me. I
am miraculously survived six months in this house, but I
was so confused, fearful, and traumatized for my own well being.

(46:46):
I decided to seek out a healer, and she explained
in simple terms what I was seeing, and that it's everywhere,
but not everyone can see it. She told me I
have a bit of a sixth sense, that I'm very
intuitive well as telepathic, and she taught me how to
use the light as my protection. Well it helped for

(47:06):
a little while, anyway, and I just tried to leave
it all behind and get back to reality. But little
did I know this would become my new reality. I
was seeing these shadows and entities more and more and
having that eerie feeling again. For some reason, I decided
to revisit those photos again. I never really looked at

(47:27):
all of them, maybe ten percent. So I've been going
through them now and I'm astonished at what I captured.
It's almost as if they wanted to be seen. It's
chilling and sickening at the same time. I feel like
I have the proof everyone has been looking for. I've
never seen anything like it on the web or a
TV documentary. And I also picked up messages, which I

(47:49):
ignored for the most part because I didn't know what
I was dealing with, whether whether it was good or bad.
It sounded like angels and demons in my opinion. I
knew it was danger risk, though, and I could lose
myself or worse, be possessed. I do think I have attachments. Basically,
I'm seeking your assistance. I don't know what to do

(48:10):
to persuade you to help me or work with me,
but I'll take a simple referral to someone who can.
At this point, I've thought about publishing this evidence, but
I'd like to share it with someone like you. First,
get a different point of view, discuss it, get honest feedback,
and go there with go from there with it. Uh.
Please let me know if this email reaches you, I

(48:32):
will sort three images, create an album and UH. Anyway,
thanks for your time and your podcast best regard. So, UH,
we're looking at her stuff right now. I said, Hey,
I'm sending this to Mobius. He is the chief of
our analysis department, and I'll let you know if we
find anything cool. Thanks Danielle. Let's wrap this up, folks

(48:53):
with the good Fortune tone. That's it for this edition

(49:22):
of the show. Follow me on Twitter at Joshua pe Warren,
Plus visit Joshua pe Warren dot com to sign up
for my free e newsletter to receive a free instant gift,
and check out the cool Stuff and the Curiosity Shop
all at Joshua pe Warren dot com. I have a
fun one lined up for you next time, I promise.

(49:44):
So please tell all your friends to subscribe to this
show and to always remember the Golden Rule. Thank you
for listening, thank you for your interest in support, thank
you for staying curious, and I We'll talk to you
again soon. You've been listening to Strange Things on the

(50:06):
I Heart Radio and Coast to Coast st a UM
Paranormal Podcast Network. Thanks for listening to the I Heart
Radio and Coast to Coast a and Paranormal Podcast Network.
Make sure and check out all our shows on the

(50:28):
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