Mental Health with Hill Harper and Collette Smith

​On this episode of Street Politicians, Tamika and Mysonne talk about the importance of mental health in the Black Community and how different traumas affect our youth. Also, author and actor Hill Harper joins the conversation and adds his thoughts and experiences about doing the work on himself and becoming a better parent, friend and son. In addition, Collette Smith, NFL's first black woman coach and the first woman coach on the NY Jets called in and speaks on her "Believe N You" Foundation and the National Coalition Domestic Violence.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
That's what's good everybody. I'm to mek A D. Mallory
and it's your boy General and we are your host
of Street Politicians, the place where the streets and politics me.
Thank you for joining us for another episode. Let me
just start off by saying that I appreciate so much.
We appreciate all those who have been downloading our podcast,

(00:29):
listening to it on my heart um podcast network, and
then also downloading the episodes on I Woman dot tv.
You go there, subscribe and go and watch free episodes.
You know, someone said to me of the day, why
we got to subscribe? Why do I have to put
my email address in? Wow? You don't say that a

(00:50):
music Do you say that about Netflix and all these
You don't subscribe like you subscribe to anybody else. Right
when a black woman owns the network? Kathleen Jones shout
out to Kathleen Trigge, the founder, developer, creator of Our
Women and TV. And that's our friend and the and

(01:11):
the director of this show. And um, you know, we
have to make sure that we take care of our
own the same way we do everyone else. So we
asked that you go subscribe. Now you can listen to
it on our heart, which by the way, you subscribe
when you do that too, because they're gonna know who
you are when you go in to sign up for
a podcast. But for for I Woman dot TV, I

(01:35):
Woman dot TV. Be clear, okay, I Woman dot TV.
You go there register and you can actually see this
podcast because we've been flying to you don't want to
miss these, okay, Gladden Mia. Shout out to Gladden Mia
that they are Oh please they If they don't help you,

(01:57):
help me, you would be don't you need have Gladden mea.
They are life savings. They are on it every single
week making sure that we look good and um that
we're presentable because I wear my sweatsuits every day. So
that's the pandemic. Bro, I don't know how to get dressed.
I'm not gonna lie. I do not know how to

(02:18):
get dressed. And the last and the shoes listen. I'm
not sure. I'm not sure we're going back to wearing
your Lubertan Lubertan look, how do you say it? Cat Lubaton.
I just don't know if I can go back to
a red bottom from the car to the I can't

(02:38):
do it. It's just I literally put my shoes on
right here on the side of this chair to stand
right over in the corner and take a picture. I'm
I have lost my way in terms of getting dressed
for myself. And if it wasn't for Lad and Mia
pushing me to get dressed up into and do stuff,

(03:01):
I just don't know. It's very difficult to go to
zoom in your living room or your kitchen or wherever
area in your house, in your most fabulous fashions. Yes,
a lot. You know, his pandemic has done a lot
to our minds, and that's why today's episode is like
primarily built around mental health. You know, it's it's mentally training.

(03:24):
You know, especially in New York, there's no indoor dyning,
there's no club, there's no recreation pretty much with the
exception of the gym, is where I go get a
lot of my energy. You know, I've been able to
utilize working out his energy. But a lot of people
are just locked in the house. They're scared. You know,
the numbers are spiking, people are dying, people are getting
infected at higher rates. So it's it's a lot, man,

(03:46):
We're dealing with so much mental health in these times.
So your shoes, you know it's understandable. My ones, my
Jordan ones, my tens, and like a few other kind
bad boot situations. That's what I wear when I get dressed.
I love a day when nobody talks to me and

(04:07):
I don't have to do anything that that's very very
very rare. But I don't I don't understand why we
have to be on the zoom camera all day long.
I don't like you, and I just think you just
don't want to do nothing, Like you can't go to
the place. Right before, we had to fly and we

(04:28):
had to do speaking engagements and we had to go
to colleges. We had to do this, and we had
to be on seven hour flights for all. And remember
how we used to have to go to like North
Carolina and Ohio on other places in the wintertime and
we would get snowed in and be driving on ice
and night and slide and I mean, you gotta have something,

(04:50):
something gotta happen, Like you just ain't gonna sit home
and just do nothing. But you wear your slippers to
your zoom. Yeah, so that's what I'm trying to tell you,
mad at the zoom when you can slippers. If he
didn't even heard it, But you gotta stay on the stage,
right I did, But my red bottoms, Remember, it was
like my ankle from one of the marches that we did.

(05:11):
My ankle was messed up, and I stood on the
stage and said to everyone. I was like, listen, guys,
my leg is messed up and it hurts a lot.
But y'all wasn't gonna get me out here without my
shoes on. So I'm standing here in pain with this
good good the brand new red bottom which, by the way,
y'all don't understand this, but you need to know that

(05:33):
the new ones. Oh listen, listen. It's a difficult process. However,
I'm gonna be cute when they opened back up. Don't worry.
I'm gonna be cute. I'm gonna Jordan's and you ladin
me and worked well with you, and they also worked
they hook us up. But the mental health component of

(05:55):
it is so it's so real what you said, because
sometimes I do get up and say, damn, like you
don't even know, Like I don't even know what it
is to have certain types of gatherings and meet ups
with people, and thank God in our situation or I
don't know, not thank God, because the work we do
is so traumatizing and the and the situations that we

(06:16):
have to work on, but we at least get to
move around more than other people. There are people who
are working from home, their kids are at home all day,
their uh spouses are there. And you know, I'm a
firm believer that people need space from each other home
people in their home. Kids don't need to see their
parents all the time. You know, people need space, and

(06:38):
to have everybody locked in it has to be causing
trauma a serious it's traumatic. It's traumatic as hell that
you can't see other people and go places. And I
do miss my girlfriends and us going out and having
a drink. I miss my favorite restaurants. I missed going

(06:58):
to Sylvia's and Harlem regularly. That's my liberal that's my kitchen,
and Sylvia's and Harlem is literally my kitchen and it's where.
You know, Sylvia's history is so rich because as Sylvia's
everybody has been through there, every celebrity, every um, every politician,

(07:18):
and it's almost it's almost like us a therapy session
when you go in and get to be around family
and other black people who are striving for greatness and
to not have that, it's really it's hard. It's a lot.
It's a lot for men. You know, we usually have
our meet ups. You know, it's rough for us. You know,
we usually we go sports bars, you know, watch the games,

(07:40):
watch the super Bowl. You couldn't even go watch Like
those are big days that men just congregate all in
one big place, and you can't even do that right now.
So you know, I understand. You know, clubs, we used
to go to the club every now and then just
have a good time, just unleash. It's just like now
you're just taking liquor back to your own you're frustrate
the fact, you know, and you're arguing with your spouse

(08:04):
or somebody in the house because you they tired, you drunk,
You frustrated because you can't go out. You're sharing this.
It's just a lot of trauma. And that's why this
mental health thing is something that I've come to realize
that's serious because I didn't even identify with it before.
Mental health, like somebody like you got issues and I'm
like you're bugging, like I'm perfect, Like you're crazy my mind,

(08:26):
I'm one of I'm a genius. Like what do you
there could be nothing wrong with me mentally, like are
you crazy? Like you're talking about me? Like me? And
then I started to pull back laders and just identify
with certain things and saying one, so damn. Maybe that
is a little different. Maybe these things do come from
things that have happened. Maybe I am triggered. Maybe I

(08:47):
am dealing with trauma from childhood. Maybe I am dealing
with trauma from prison. Maybe I am dealing with just
different traumas. You know, because I identify with certain ways
that I think and things that I do. It's not
really the norm. The average person doesn't do it, but
I've normalized it, you know. So you know I'm getting better.
I don't have a therapist yet, but I'm moving towards it,

(09:09):
you know, I'm moving towards the rapists. Name is Linda's.
Our sword is definitely her, and Omar Prankle and your
best friend and your partner at Until Freedom and other
co founder. Those are your therapists that you talk to
because you and I it don't work because we are
not arguing because we don't agree, but because I just

(09:29):
don't agree with you about a whole bunch of ways
that you think. I just think it's worth thinking, and
Linda will say no, because we both have trauma. Right,
So we're bringing our trauma to a conversation. Lend this trauma, Tiz,
and I don't. I think lendas trauma is different, right, Yeah, Well,
if lendas trauma is not very exactly because your trauma

(09:50):
comes from Black experiences, black men, black women. My trauma
comes from Black experiences. So when we come from different
perspective of that experience and we have a conversation, that
trauma shows up. Oh yeah, because I'm trauma sized when
I'm trying to reason with your craziness. But I think
from Lender's perspective it is true because she will say

(10:13):
to me, like, wow, black people's the way you all think,
in the way that you live is very different, you know.
And she knows that. But she also is a very
good person to talk to. So we do have people around.
We have sound boards, yeah, we have sounds. We have
sound boards, and and it makes us think. So, you know,
I'm always thinking, and I have like sixteen thousand, million,

(10:36):
one hundred and seventy five thoughts of the days today,
I just want I'm struggling. You can't figure out one
thing that's one thought out. Then you are dealing with
mental health. You have to unpack. And I really, you know,
I'm struggling with picking the one that is most significant

(10:57):
because I want to talk about relationships, I to talk
about stuff. I just want to talk about a bunch
of stuff. But I think you know, in a few
weeks ago, my son terik Um time on five we
did Alive together that I had no idea how many

(11:18):
people like he's a he's a he's brilliant, he's brilliant,
he's a master marketer, very you know, similar to you
in a lot of ways in terms of how he thinks.
Because he kept saying, Mom, you know, the rest of
your life is in the world. We might as well
talk about our stuff, right, And he's like, I'm telling you, mom,
people my friends, you know, they have the same problems
with their parents that I have with you. And the

(11:40):
reason why this came up is because his album was
being released. He loves music, he does music, he is
an artist. And I listened to two words of one
song and said, I can't put this on my social media.
There's no way I can support this. I can't do
nothing with this, Like and it's not even bad music.
It's music that I do listen to on you know,

(12:03):
on the side, and some of it I can actually
I can promote when I'm listening to other people, when
I'm you know, when Cardi and Meg is dropping and
they're talking about that, why that's not my son, that's
not my child. So but when it's him again, that's scrutiny.
You know that people we don't like to talk about,
but it's real. I'll be I'll be feeling away. And

(12:24):
so I was trying to figure out, Tarik, what do
I do to support you with your music, knowing that
the things you're saying, in the ways in which you
frame your thoughts, it's just outside of what I think
people can deal with. They can't even deal with me
talking about Kim Kardashian on on my page. There it's

(12:47):
a meltdown on my page that's been going on for
the last few weeks about me saying one thing about
Kim Kardashian. They'd be like, I can't believe this. They
can't deal with me posting myself in a bathing okay,
a bikini, they can't deal with certain just a lot
of things that I do so, imagine me posting some

(13:09):
of his music, which is his real, true or authentic thoughts. Okay,
I don't know what to do, and I guess my
the thing I'm trying to figure out is how do
you balance, especially supporting your young black man as a

(13:31):
mom who has a platform, with the fact that I
can't control what he does. Well, I think, I think
for me, right, because I had this conversation with my
son right because he's into music like all of them
arest and and he's dope, you know. And I think
when he first started, right, I explained to him, you know,

(13:52):
I can't tell you who you are. You know, I've
given you, you know, direction, I've giving you wisdom, I've
told you certain things. I'm not here to live your
life or tell you what to say and what not
to say. But I also have who I am. Right,
So when the music or the content of the music

(14:13):
that you make goes disaccording to what it is that
I represent, I'm not not going to support you. But
I can't. I can't knowingly and will willingly promote something
that goes against what it is that I represent. You know,
So understand that it's not that I don't want to
support you. But if I'm out here telling everybody else's kids,
you'll listen, we gotta work, we gotta work on unity

(14:34):
and this and that. And you're talking about shooting them
up and how much dope you're gonna sell. They don't.
But that's what I'm saying. What I'm saying is if
that's what you your content is, because I remember when
I was young. But really, what I'm just trying to say,
if your content is just that's just you know, an example.
You know, I remember when I was young. I was

(14:54):
my song Lefty Gun in the right pom popping niggas
and they sleep so they dot com. You know, I know,
I under there. There's an evolution. So while you evolving,
you have to do that. You have to get to
that process, you know. And when you get to a process,
were you able to you know the fact that I
understand music and I understand what you're going through. I'm
gonna give you pointers on how you know what everybody's

(15:17):
saying that. You know, everybody's talking about how much lean
and how much perks they popping, how much money they got,
how much are they all talking about that? If you
want to win, talk about exactly who you are I mean, right,
because it's it's more authentic than saying, you know what
this is where everybody is going along with not saying
that you're just making them stories. What I'm saying that

(15:38):
you're utilizing aspect of something that you may have experienced,
what you've seen, Like we saw those things, so we
lived through that too. Because my son will say to me,
because sometimes I listen to his music and I just
be like something we all go. He'll tell me, you
don't know what's going on and everything and to be

(16:00):
remembering like word, that did happen, or you were there,
or you your friend did get killed, and you know
and and and you did have beef with these people.
And I was hoping that the situation wouldn't go the
wrong way so I could kind of see it. But
it's like really, and he's like, myn you you don't
really understand my fault, like who I am and the

(16:21):
fullness and what I say is not your fullness. It's
not your fullness. But he's on love songs now, so
he must be. You know, my son is a and
and not saw this too. Your son is also because
he loves his girl and you know they've been together
since I've known y'all, or at least you know some
a lot of the years since I've known you guys,

(16:42):
and that's been a while. But my son is a
lover of one. That's who he is. I never understood that.
I would be, like, why do you want to be
in a relationship with one person so early in your life?
You seventeen? But if you sit there and think about
yourself or I think about me, you know, That's how
I was when I was young. I had one relationship

(17:04):
for six years, the first first girlfriend throughout my whole
high school. After I got out of high school, for
like six and a half years, like this was the
only girls with because that was just how it is
like when you when men, and I think, what happens
in those situations, it shapes who you are, Right if
that situation turns out good and you and that girl

(17:25):
stay together and it's not nothing that but if that
girl breaks your heart, it turns you into somebody else, right,
So it's not Yeah, but it didn't for him. I
don't know exactly, but every time he does the same
thing in terms of getting back in the relationship with
one girl, and I appreciate the fact that he's not

(17:45):
out here slinging and dinging, like I get it. I
appreciate it, but I do feel like it makes him
more vulnerable to heartbreak and and and just you know,
all the challenges and things that he's been throughing relationships.
But I see he's now on his live or on
his page with his his bottle that he must have

(18:06):
been drinking some kind of tequila and he's using that
as a prop and he's telling the bottle all these
great things. But because you know, he's he's a comedian,
he's a comedian. He's far very funny. So he's telling
the bottle all these things about what he would do
for her if, you know, they get together. And then
he wrote some stuff about how he's looking for the

(18:27):
right woman, and so I guess, you know, it's a
good thing that he's looking for He you know, he
lives in a state or in a city in Atlanta
that is dangerous to just be running wild, like you
gotta be real careful because unfortunately HIV is a real
serious problem there. And so I guess I don't mind

(18:48):
that he's trying to settle down, but sometimes he and
not just talked too, totally different languages, totally different and
I want to be supportive of him. It's not that
if he was. I don't have a daughter, so I
can't mean I have I have a young woman who
I raised and she is like a daughter to me,
and that cheyenne um, but you know, she doesn't live
in my household all the time, So I don't have

(19:10):
a daughter that I'm I'm responsible for the way I
am my son, and I know how hard this world
is two boys, and so it just makes me want
to support him, but I already know that I have
to be careful with how I approached supporting him. Now
he'll turn around and say, okay, yeah, but whop your
favorite song on the radio. I'm just trying to understand,

(19:32):
so he so he'll point out that he sees hypocrisy there,
But to be clear, I ain't. I might post that
I don't see what y'all. You know, I may my defense,
but I don't put the words of that. And it's
not to take any stabs with these kids. But why
is who Cardi b is? Right, That's been her full

(19:53):
steps since she's came to You know, existence you understood
that Cardi B was a stripper who came from bottom
in the bronx who this was her normal life. Every
day she was in the strip clubs, she was having fights,
she was shaking up. This is what she This is
who she was, you understand. So people look at that
and say, yo, this is Cardi B. So when she

(20:13):
talks about it, you immediately identify with it because there's
a connection of authenticity I think for us looking at
our children, right and understanding what we've been through and
understand that we've actually given them a better path than
we've had, right, So when they talk as if they're
talking to us, you know, like they're like they've been
through what we do, it's like it's hard to identify
with it. Maybe someone else do what we've been through.

(20:37):
Well I don't know, but you know what these kids
be doing stuff we don't know about that. But the
thing about it, even not know about it, I think
for me is did you ever have to write? That's
the thing. They get themselves in stuff that they should
not be in, and then their experiences become hardships that
it should not be. And that's my problem. So I

(20:58):
think now I know my therapy session with you was
gonna be okay today because that is actually the heart
of the issue for me. It's like, yeah, I know
that y'all got shot at in the park, but why
but why did you go to the park over there
that I told you don't be over there? And even

(21:19):
the old heads over there, what y'all called the o
G said, you don't live over here, don't come over here,
and you just want to you just want to try
it up. So now you've been shot at, you put
yourself in the studio, you mad at people, and now
you want to you're mad. It's like you're living through
one side of your experiences. And that brings me to
what the streets is talking about. The stres talking about,

(21:41):
and the streets is talking about pretty much the same thing.
I was. You know, my boy Wild put you know,
he put a post up the other day and it
was so real to me. He said, why are these
rappers right waiting to get rich, waiting to get out
of the hood, to have beef and do the dumb
ship shooting at each other? And when we was coming

(22:02):
up right when I was wrapping, my whole thing was
I want to get out of the hood, you know,
I want to make a better way. You know, I
don't want to be in the streets dealing and dealing
with all of these things. I wanted to be as
far away from problems as possible. So these young boys
twenty nineteen eighteen to actually get opportunities to change their

(22:22):
family's lives, to change the trajectory of their lineage, you know,
to create generational wealthy millionaires at teenagers. And they're still
doing street ship. That's gonna detrimental, be detrimental to your
life and your survival and your freedom. Like the street
I just don't understand what is the obsession, what is

(22:43):
the you know, the connection? Where why are y'all so
eager to stay in the streets when you don't you've
escape poverty, Like I really just don't understand the mindset
that comes with that, because if you're from a place
like Harlem, you just can't let it go, let what
is it whatever? And it comes with a lot of things,

(23:04):
because it's like when you go to the hood, you're
gonna be there for a short period of time. You
might hang out, but you could be there for a
short period time because you already know somebody get drunk,
something happened there's a fight that breaks out somehow or another,
you might find yourself trying to break it up the
wrong person say something and they could just spire out
of control. Best place to stay in your house, It

(23:26):
really is because because when you move around in the world,
things happen all the time. And I think that people
like to go. They want to flost, They want to
take back to the hood what they were able to
accomplish and you know what they've been able to obtain,
and when they returned with that energy, people don't like it.

(23:50):
But it's like, why return with the energy because they don't.
Just because you got money don't mean you got saying,
like I just keep watching these young boys. Every other
week one of them is getting killed older. They shot
at this one, they robbed this one. It's like and
and now you're facing real time. They're not facing like
you know, oh it's a misdemeanor. This is you know,

(24:11):
just a minding fraction. They are really jeopardized in their
lives after they've already got out the hood, Like what's
the fascination with leader ship alone? Like you you you're
able to change your family's life. Man, You're you, You're
able to make your family proud, to make your mother,
get your mother out there the community and change for
the beat, or actually even come back to the community

(24:33):
and make changes in the community. How are you contributing
to negativity in the community that you actually was able
to rise above and and and you know, and succeed
despite all of the pitfalls, Like you're supposed to come
back as an example, You're supposed to come back giving
these young boys opportunities. They're not supposed to see you
as an opera anything. You're supposed say, y'all, you know

(24:54):
I'm coming back. We're gonna build community centers, We're gonna
get jobs. I want to make sure everybody that's from
here have opportunities. How are y'all still contributing to the
dumb ship like you're giving people more credit than what
because they don't. Because just like I said, just because
you have money does not mean you have sense, and
it damn shure don't mean that you've actually and that

(25:19):
damn sure doesn't mean that you have dealt with your
own internal traumas, your mental health issues. It doesn't mean
that right like there people are struggling with their Oh
it's wants to go out into the world and get
in trouble for stuff that they tried to run away from.

(25:41):
Who wants to do that? Only somebody who's dealing with
a severe mental illness that comes from the trauma of
growing up in certain communities, and they self sabotage, right,
That's that's that's the only you know. And and when
you self sabotage that is that means that you're dealing
with some mental health issues like people think mental health.

(26:04):
And that's why I'm so glad that the mental health
community of experts are working so hard to help people
normalize that these things are real and that a lot
of people are dealing with. Looking at Charlemagne, I mean,
Charlemagne spend so much of his time trying to promote
people getting help. And it's important because in the past,

(26:27):
it was like you had to be a looning person,
or at least that was the language that was used.
You was loony. You know, you you was looking a
certain way or acting a certain way, and that was
what was considered to be crazy. So you didn't want
to necessarily go get help because getting help meant that
you were crazy. We're now learning that mental health shows

(26:48):
up in anxiety. It shows up in how you eat,
It shows up in the amount of sex that you
have sometimes, or the people you choose to have sex with,
or the people you stay in relationships with no in
that they're not doing you right, or the people you
choose to you know, be around that you know don't
have your best interests at heart. That's a mental illness,

(27:09):
and it's something. And so when you try to ask
questions like, well, why would they because they didn't learn
anything different and they still haven't addressed whatever is going
on on the inside, looking for validation in the wrong places.
It's just it's just very sad man because every day,
you know, you're rooting for one of these young boys.
You're like, yes, oh, I've seen I remember when he

(27:30):
was just starting. And then you next thing, you so
you've seen him, and they're on billboard shots and they
seem to be doing well. They flashing money and they
got all these big chains and and then next thing
you know, they got a murder charge yeah, or they
got shot, or they in be for they wanted for questioning,
or they caught up in some level of indictment, and
it's just like it's just it hurts you know, And

(27:51):
I just want to say, man, I know we're dealing
with mental health, so I have to say that, but
I also have the same man, you know, we just
got to make better decisions. Also, just you know, some
ship is just dumb. Some sh is like you could.
We've watched the same tapes now we we keep watching
every the same way. Somebody is dying, they're going back,
agetting to be for somebody that ain't got nothing, that's

(28:14):
mad at over there. They're shooting you beef and you're
going back you wouldn't prove your ego and this and
that and I'm gonna shoot you and I'm doing this
and just continuing the same cycle. Like we have to
break that cycle. We have to break the mentality. We
have to just do something different. What's the movie with Sharif? Yes, Society? Society? Man,

(28:34):
we watch Society all the time in the house and
um in Atlanta, and you know it's the same. I
mean here, this young man was was what was his name?
The character the main the main character on Kane. Kane
could have got out, but he couldn't get out. They

(28:55):
couldn't get out. And that's how it usually happens. Man.
We have to change that narrative. Yeah, we have to
do something different. We just gotta do better. I'm praying
for these young boys many too. And we have a guest.
Who's our guest today. We have a friend and actor

(29:15):
and author, a brother um, a historian in his own right,
and that is Hill Harper. We're so happy to happen.
How are y'all doing? It's it's so good to be on.
I appreciate you. I appreciate the wisdom that both of
you bring to our community. So thank you. It's great
to be here with you. And and uh and I'm
happy and excited to chop it up with you. I

(29:38):
left out activists. It's been a rough, rough, rough time.
It's been. It's been a rough forever, but the last
four years now, you know, we're headed towards the fifth
year of struggle, and just people feeling really really stressed out.
And to have the last year be pain full with

(30:00):
the COVID nineteen virus has a lot of people feeling
really really stressed. I was having a conversation the other
day with my father, and my father is caring for
my mother who had a stroke recently, and she and
they are home because they have to be because my
mother is paralyzed. She's getting better, but she's paralyzed on

(30:21):
her left side, slightly paralyzed. And then UH and then
also COVID. And as I was talking to him, it
occurred to me that going outside and being around people
actually was helping them to stay as young and fly
as they have been. And to see that we now
are in a time where people are locked in their homes,

(30:43):
where Black men are locked in their homes with their
thoughts and the struggles and what I haven't been able
to accomplish, and the world is beating me down. This
is a challenging moment for us and I and I
wonder what you're what is what do you feel about that?
But also what do you encourage Gene our brothers to
do in this moment? Oh? Wow? You know that the

(31:05):
trauma is real, you know, and it's real for all
of us, and it hits us in many different ways,
you know. And I I come to this this subject
UH in a very personal way because you know, many
of you out there wouldn't wouldn't know this, but my
father was a psychiatrist who worked in the UH, in
the prison system, dealing with UH. Trauma and recently and

(31:26):
he had a program UM that was all about a
conditional release program, getting offenders or so called offenders out
early um and and participate in this program so that
they could have re entry and dealing with mental health
and trauma. And you know, he he passed away at
the beginning of two thousand one, and so he was

(31:46):
doing so much good work and and he he passed
way too early. But I think about the mental health
of black men is something that we never discuss. It's
something that's stigmatized. It's stigmatized from when you're very young,
people say, just get up to you tough, you're tough,
you got this, come on. And it's also stigmatized from

(32:07):
the standpoint of even the black church system. It's like no, no, no,
don't go to therapy, you know, come come, just pray
it out, pray it out and charge right and um
and and so so many men, black men, so many
of us are living inside our own heads and feel
like that we can actually communicate it even to each other,

(32:28):
because we'll be seeing as soft, we'll be seen as
as as as as not so called strong black men.
And it eats you up from the inside and so
we have to have these discussions. We have to say
it's okay to cry, It's okay to feel, It's okay
to open your heart and and and and feel the pain.
It's okay to feel fear. We never talk about fear. Right,

(32:50):
It's okay to be afraid as a black man, knowing
that the world is trying to come at you. I'm
wearing this Trayvon Martin hoodie. Uh. You know it's Black
History Month, is birthdays in this month and uh, and
we can talk about the trajectory of time from Trayvon
to now and the numbers of black men that have
been killed, whether by police or by or by so

(33:11):
called civilians um and proud boys or whatever you want
to call the moniker. But the idea that these people
can get away with this makes you feel subconsciously that
you're not You're not worthy or worth. There's so many
things that play that you mentioned. And so we have
to be there for each other. Doctor King said, we're
all tied together in a single garment of mutual destiny.

(33:32):
We have to be there to support each other, and
particularly black men and black women coming together. Oh man,
that that touches on so much for me, you know,
I was about to comment on that trade Von sweat
of and understanding the trauma that Trayvon situation caused me.
You know, I remember being in Florida when they were reading,
you know, the what they were the trial for Zmon

(33:55):
what's happening and they were reading the verdict, and when
he was founding out guilty, I down and cry and
I'm I'm person that you know, I've been taught that
you don't deal with emotions, you don't get up, you know,
being incarcerated, you don't cry, you don't do all these things.
And identifying with the fact that black men hold so

(34:15):
much of our pain inside, like we've been taught to
hold that pain inside. And I remember crying for Trayvon
like I probably never cried right throughout my whole life.
I probably remember crying like that once or twice in
my life. So that just goes to what I what
I want to ask, like, what what do you think
that we should do? This is stigmatized, you know, especially

(34:37):
men from marginalized communities from the hood. We've been taught
you can't cry, you can't show emotions, we don't even
identify with anything being mental health right, we we we've
normalized abnormalities in our community. What do you how do
you think we should go about those of us who
are are able to identify those things? How do you
think we get to those brothers who don't know how

(34:59):
to identify who running from it, who utilized violence or
all these things as a coping mechanism. What should we do?
That's that you know, that's a great question. And I'll
answer that question through through through a story. Um. I
do a lot of work in in prisons. I do
a lot of work in juvenile detention facilities. And I
went into one one time and people would ask me

(35:20):
all the time, Man Hill, you know you know your
your your your your mom was an antissiologist, your dad
was a psychiatrist. You ain't from the hood hood, you know,
how can you can't relate? You can't relate to these bangers.
You can't relate to this, you know. So what you're
doing in these prisons talking these banking and what they
don't get and this is real, real, what they don't

(35:41):
get is these young cats, they don't care where you
grew up. They care if you're authentic when you look
him in the eye, Like for me, I look him
in the eye and I say, I love you. They
either feel that that's true or that's not true. They
don't say, oh, what's your zip code or what was
your families net worth? You know, it's it's it's it's

(36:02):
whether you love them or not. And and the story
I'll tell you is that somebody who who ran the
this ward said tipped me off about this one brother.
He said that you're gonna do Usually I do these
group sessions, and he said, there's one cat in there,
you know, just just just you know, you know, leave alone,
you know, trust me, leave him alone. I was like,
you know whatever. So I'm talking and I see him
and I knew who he was talking about, and uh,

(36:23):
I told him. I said, hey, hey, uh, you know,
before this is over, because he was giving me all
sorts of you know, you know eyes and all that,
and I said, I said, before this is over, I'm
a you. We're gonna hug m something. I'm gonna hug you, nigga,
ain't fuck you. I said, no, I'm gonna give you

(36:46):
a hug for real. I'm gonna give you a hug. Nigga.
If you touched me, I'll kill you. You know what
sucking touch me? Nobody touches me in here. Fuck you
what you know, it's it's all of that situation. So
you know, we're doing the whole session, the whole thing.
I started talk talking to him and just see the
layers slowly a little bit start to come down, just

(37:07):
I mean, just incrementally, just like And so that's the point.
We as black men have built up these defense mechanisms
that are layers upon layers upon layers that have been
necessary armor for us to get through this world, no
matter who you are, where you're from, to get through
this situation, we put armor on. But what we have
to do to answer your question is give each other

(37:29):
grace and a safe space to put the armor down
and say, Okay, that armor served you at this situation,
in this part of your life. But we're in a
different situation here in this room right now, in a
different part of your life. So I'm what, how can
I make space for you? How can I make grace

(37:52):
for you to put that armor down, even if it's
for two minutes? And he and I got there, and
I came over to him right at the end that
I said, Man, you know, sessions about over I'm about
to leave, but you know I love you, right, And
he didn't say anything like no comebacks. And I said,
and I looked at myself, I love you. And I

(38:13):
hugged him. And at first he was stiff, and then
I felt him exhale, like and I get emotional telling
the story right now. And he told me, dang, I
the story. I know. I didn't even intend I was
gonna tell the story. So you can see how stuff
sneaks up on you. Um. He exhaled, and he said,

(38:38):
then no adult man had ever told him I love
you in his life. Wow mm hmm. And and and
that's it, man, it's you know, it's it's about love,
and it's about grace. It's about space, and it's about

(39:00):
granting each other the ability to be vulnerable. That's it.
We have to give each other safe space to be vulnerable.
And if that's one on one, if that's in a
group setting, if that's out in the woods, if that's
in a room, safe space to be vulnerable. It's so
interesting that you're saying that because we are one of

(39:22):
these shows. We were talking about my father. My father
is the perfect, imperfect person. He's perfect. I mean, he
really is. Everybody loves him. He's standing man. And the
reason why I say, he has his own imperfectionists and
these are things that he calls out right and not
me because I don't see it. He's perfect to me.
But he said to me one day, um, I love you,

(39:45):
and he said, I know, I don't say it often,
but I do. I really love you. And I started
to think, my dad, I know my dad loves me
like I couldn't. I didn't understand. And then I begin
to reflect on the years that he never was the
guy who said I love you, I love you, I
love you all the time. That was more of my
mother and even even my dad. He grew up in

(40:08):
the house with a father, his brothers, his mother, whatever.
Still there is something that is taught, like he didn't
have the situation where he didn't there was no other
man in the household or you know, he grew up
in in in in a in a bad situation and
still saying I love you was not normal. M M.

(40:28):
I wasn't normalized. And it's it's it's it's tough because
then as a black woman, you wonder, how can a man,
a black man show you the type of love that
you need if you all are not even able to
express it amongst yourselves or to yourself. Yeah, when I went,

(40:49):
I took a trip to Kenya and I was over there,
went up to Uh with with the Messiah and did
a whole thing. Rule is this area called Lake Turkana,
which is like northern Kenya, and as the Massai tribe
that was gonna be our guides. So we're out there
getting guided by them, and these brothers at night, these

(41:13):
tall brothers with the red on, they would hold each
other's hand. And that's the first time I've ever seen that.
And I said, what is it? You know, because they
stand out there, it's almost like they're standing guard straight
up like an arrow, looking out over the horizon, holding hands.
And the guy explaining to me said, that's that's that's ritual,

(41:37):
you know, that's that's the ritual that we established where
before the men, young men go out to unmarried men
would go out to Uh do their hunting, and that
before they go out to do that work, they hold hands.
And that was powerful to me, and I said, damn,
you know, we need to bring at least metaphorically that

(41:59):
idea act to us. How can we metaphorically hold each
other's hands and then not be okay, right, Yeah, that's
that's a man, you know, as just listening to you,
right and understanding you know, societal norms, just definitely for
black men being incarcerated, you know, having my father died

(42:21):
when I was twelve years old from overdose, being a
man of my household, and just never wanting to exhibit
any level of emotion, right and and and never thinking
anything was wrong with that, Like it just it's just
coming down to me that the fact that I was
number from emotion, that every time I thought about exhibiting emotion,

(42:44):
I equated it with weakness, right, It's something that I
just start identified. Right, Like I find myself having to
stop from telling my sons not to exhibit any level
of emotion, right, Like they want to hug each other,
and I want to be like, I shouldn't be hugging
each other. Boys just don't hug each other. These are
two they love each other. This is brother and mentally

(43:06):
identified with something that it shouldn't be going on. And
I have to stop myself from saying, no, that it's normal.
That's he's showing his brother love. He loves his brother
Why Why have I equated it with some level of weakness?
Why am I? Why have I been taught something like that?
How do we get away from that? What is the process?

(43:26):
How do we break down these norms that have kept
us from being emotional? Because I I find I have
problems just in life relationships, friendships, people like I don't
know what you think, and I don't know if you're emotional.
I don't know what you is. My wife is like, oh,
you don't show emotions. We go through these things all
the time, like what what what advice would you give
somebody who wants who wants to see that, who wants

(43:48):
to be, who wants to have that connection, who wants
to you know, break away from that? I think there's
a couple a couple of things that you that we
have to make habit. And the one thing that that
it's so interesting about all these studies show, Uh, there's
a bunch of books out there about this called the
power of habit and blah blah blah, is that habit
is actually more important than intention and so you could

(44:10):
have all the willpower the intentions like I'm gonna make
sure that I am vulnerable and I'm gonna be open
and I'm you know, it's just like it's like working out.
I'm gonna make sure I work out every day. And
it's and it's really not that they say. It's not
about the intention. It's about actually creating a space for
the habit to exist. And once you start doing something
twenty one days in a row and then you get

(44:30):
to sixty days, you get you know, you actually have
a habit. So a couple of things. One having someone
to talk to about how you feel, your feelings and emotions.
Therapy therapy, therapy, therapy works. It's the best investment in
yourself you can make UM and and oftentimes many of
our communities people say, well I can't afford that, blah
blah blah. Heard they're expensive. There's so many social workers out,

(44:51):
so many therapists, so many occupational therapists, so many programs
in so many places that have UM therapy for or
extremely low cost, in many cases free. Uh. It's just
about doing a little bit of research and maybe you
have to travel a little bit to get there, but
it's worth it. Right now, it's actually happening virtually, so
you don't even have to go anywhere to to to

(45:12):
do it. That's number one. Number two is figuring out
what works for you habit wise in terms of your
own making space for yourself. What do I mean by that?
Meditation and taking time every day even if it's I'm
talking three minutes, just set a time or on your
phone and just sit and try to clear and trying

(45:32):
to feel your heart. I went to a retreat one time.
His name was brew Joy and he talked about he's
passed away and he talked about her heart shock fra.
And you don't hear brothers talking about chokras much, right,
but it's like we can learn about that stuff, right.
And he taught He said, your heart Chokra exists in
four different areas, Compassion in a harmony, healing presence, and

(45:54):
unconditional love. And he said, you don't have to be
a master meditator. Just keep thinking compassion in a harmony,
healing presence, unconditional love and repeat those over and over.
And he says, you start, you start building that muscle.
That heart starts to open, it just starts to happen,
and just make it habit. It's not like and so,

(46:14):
and don't beat yourself up if you miss a day
but the idea is just start doing these habits that
start to open and you can also pull people in
your life. This is a really powerful thing that I use.
And sometimes the answers that come back aren't that great
because we don't see things that other people often see.
And we asked someone to write you a letter or
an email saying, what are the things that you see

(46:36):
me exhibiting that maybe self sabotage behavior, and the people
may point some things out and usually they'll do it
very gently. But the issue with that is when someone
asked that question and you answer it, most of the
time that the responses I don't really care what anybody thinks.
I'm you know, I'm doing what I gotta do for me.

(46:57):
So it's like we also have to break that down
that we actually believe our own stuff. We believe our
own kool aid, if you will. And it's so many
layers to fear that's fear based because it means you
have to change and do something different people to do that. No,
we definitely don't. We get wedded to just being who

(47:18):
and how we are, and you know, but we're all
works in progress. And that's not when I keep saying
that we're grace. We just got to give ourselves grace.
It's okay. It's okay that you actually do that with
my son. For instance, So my son's five years old
and you're just talking about being a parent to your
to your sons. My son, he acts up bad, oh bad,

(47:41):
And and I keep I don't want to be my father.
Who who At the end of the day, when you're
talking about beating boys, you gotta ask what. We gotta
ask what. We asked what. But that is a slave tactic. Black.
Let's be very clear. That is a slave holdover. And

(48:04):
we literally took that slave holdover and incorporated into our life.
Master said the way you make these and stay in
line is to beat them, And we somehow got that
over five d years. Uh indoctrinated in us and said, oh,

(48:24):
the way you make your boys stay in line is
to beat them at every turn. And I remember me,
I used to had I had a technique. I tightened
up my butt cheeks make sure it didn't hurt his
band face. I got weapons all the time. And I
noticed I see myself, like you said, there's a part
of me that keeps wanting. You know, I'm gonna give

(48:45):
you a spanking. I'm gonna give you no, no, no,
no stop. That that should even that option should be
off the table, because if I can't actually figure out
a different way to parent, then I'm not doing my
work as a parent. I should be able to find
discipline techniques that do not involve beating my child. I

(49:06):
appreciate it, but I'm gonna speak a little as No,
you don't, that's not true. But I don't even speak
to me. I don't even speak my kids. I'm just choking.
But sometimes do you really think they do. I'll grab
my son's hand and be like, look, you might get
a little speaking, but I think we do have to
change to squeeze. I do this. There's a little a
little squeeze. Yeah, but you know what I I hear

(49:31):
you slave mentality. I get the whole thing, But I
appreciate some of them whippers I got because I was
off at more than a hand. The hand wasn't enough
for me. I needed the rod dne of what. Just
because you turned out great doesn't mean it was because

(49:54):
of the whoppers. Yeah, well, the trauma is still there.
It definitely is. And then you have to go back
and try to repair the child, and it's it's a
hard process. Listen, I wish we could do this and
talk to you. I never got a chance. I never
got a chance to ask him how you balance family
life and you know, being on the road all the time,

(50:18):
and like what that causes, because it's hard for us,
you know, with our families, it creates just challenges. And
so having a young boy at home, I know it's
difficult for you. Maybe you could quickly answer that as
we go out. The one thing I leaned back on
his technology. I you know, I couldn't imagine, you know,
I've had he's five, so I've only had for five years.

(50:39):
So so I've had the ability to face time with him.
I couldn't imagine before that when you couldn't actually see
your child when you're on the road or say good
morning to them in their face, you know. So so
technology has offered a blessing. But but I'll tell you
this pandemic has been a blessing because I was on
the road a decent amount and it eliminated all of that.

(51:00):
And it's made me realize that, uh, you know, I
probably I'm gonna moving forward say no to a lot
of things that take me on the road because this
time is so critical. And you know, and as much
as being on the road and being with folks and
being doing the work and the activism work on the ground,

(51:20):
and you know, I gotta I gotta make sure I'm
here for him as well. And uh and and in
our relationship has blossom in a different way now he's
acting up more so maybe when I'm on the road,
maybe it's better actually, but but that's the whole different
thing him. But what was the movie? Because I told
I think we had this conversation. It was a basketball
movie that you was in. My friend was like on

(51:43):
the opposite team, and I was in the extends. I
think we I forgot what college you went to. It
was somewhere like Upstate, New York, and you was in
the movie. I forgot the name of the movie. You're
not talking about He Got Game, because that's the one
that's the biggest basketball that's the biggest one. But I
did a maller basketball movie. It ended up being called
I think it ended up being called Across the Line.

(52:08):
Because you know what's funny about this story. That was
Tad Diggs's first movie. He played my older brother, and
you know, and I had to teach him how to
hit the mark and to do all this. He had
just started doing rent on Broadway and and uh and
that was his first that was his first film. And yeah,
it was called Across the Line. Yeah, the producer who

(52:32):
paid for most of the movie, he decided to hire
his son as the as the lead. And um, that
was my friend. Ray had got like an extra roll.
He was good in basketball. So we all played basketball.
So he's like, Yo, we're gonna take the bus. We're
gonna all go up to and see if you can
get a role. So I remember I was watching y'all
play the hotel. I was trying to get in the movie,

(52:54):
but they wouldn't live us. And I just remembered you
out of everybody that was you know what else is
in that shout was there too? Exactly? There ye was
in that movie. And yeah, man, it was Jamal Joseph brother,
Jamal Joseph directed that film. Shout out to Jamal, appreciate you.

(53:17):
We gotta do this again man for us. I'll come.
I'll definitely come back, come back. How about this. I'll
come back around the centennial of the Black Wall Street massacre.
So so so late May, we'll come back and talk
about that love, that love that thank you so much,
so we'll see you appreciate you. Well, you know another

(53:39):
person who would have a little bit of history was
not only was it anything, but no, I'm just saying,
even though he's our friend, they had when we look
at the thing, it isn't the movie that I was
talking about, wasn't even in the credits. This was actually
his first because when we look at when you when
you read just listen to him. Yeah, because I don't
understand calm down. Listen, we have our sheet. Why do

(54:02):
men always say women have to calm down? I'm not excited.
I'm just not clear what you're saying. So let me talk.
If you let me say that's when I say calm
that means let me say what I'm saying and then
you can actually get my point. Okay. So the movie
that I brought up across the lines. When we have
our fact sheet about Hill Harper, it says his first

(54:22):
movie was he Got Game's Blackly, which means I know
a movie that he was entire to that. So I
know a little something I just brought up. Some these
are things what you're trying to say is that our
production team didn't know, but they couldn't have really known
because it was you heard. It was an underlying fact.

(54:45):
It was things that didn't happen, but I was there.
That's the bottom president. So the whole point is that
my son was there with Hill Harper during at least
t Dig's first movie. Look, you don't even know. Look
the history. You see the history. Look I've been around here, man,

(55:06):
I tell people all the time. Doesn't matter where. We
have traveled across the entire world doing our work. Everywhere
we go people are like my son, my son, my son.
In fact, there's some places outside the country I think,
I don't know, Like whatever we have to do. Whatever
it was, it was like something for the gathering of
justice in London, and there were people just crazy about

(55:33):
my son. I know your music, you know, it's diverse,
the type of people who know you. It's not just
black people, it's not just young people, it's not just
people from your our generation. It's generally just a large
group of people who are really really inspired by your work.
So you okay, But still the reason why they didn't

(55:53):
choose you, I thought I forgot because the reason why
you didn't get chosen for that movie is because you're
a basketball scrub. Your son not san plays better than you.
That's forgetting me. But I was never a scrub. The
reason why I didn't get an opportunity they didn't have
any more auditions. See, my friend just said, come on,
come on, you play ball, and if you just get
on the court and they can see how good you play,
they're probably put you in the movie. But it didn't happen.

(56:16):
He's like, yo, it's no more spots. We're gonna keep
you in mind for the next movie. All that, it
never really happened. But I was there, and Hill was
a dopezing amazing. He's so amazing. He almost a cry
like I was. I was sitting here. He was my
third pitch woman. You see that. I didn't even realize
my own session. Yeah, I had my own session. I like,

(56:37):
I was like, it's like, it's like as a mother,
I don't think I know that as a man, you
have your own feelings and experiences and challenges and things
that you deal with. But it is really hard being
the mother of a black son. It's really really hard.
It's probably I'm sure it is. It's hard to be
a black son. And I think about your mom, Patricia,

(57:00):
you know, and having multiple black sons, and I see
her like, you know, still, like she in there with y'all,
like ya, that's that's a And my mom she's in
there with her son. She want to know what's going
on with her grown son and her grandchildren. And it's
just it's a it's it takes a certain type of skill,
and it also takes as Black women, we have to

(57:23):
deal with our trauma because oftentimes we place on young
men the stuff that or on men in general, the
things that we either have been lacking or our fears.
And that's why I love me some Will Smith. I
love me some Will Smith because he often says that

(57:43):
the responsibility to take care of your own mental space
and to make you happy, it's first. And then the
rest of the world has a responsibility to do right
by you. But you are the first person that has
a responsibility to deal with and take care of you.
And at the point that people around you don't benefit

(58:06):
that process, then you have to eliminate them, no matter
how bad it hurts, no matter how because you can't
allow you to be abused, and and and hurt by others,
and then you go and transfer that hurt and pain
onto your kids, and especially not to say we will
you know, we're talking about young girls, but our men.

(58:27):
It's it's it's real. It's real, and I see a
lot of us. I've done it talking to our sons.
I heard you say during the interview that you were
the man of the house as a young as a
young boy, and maybe you perform certain roles, but you
weren't a man. But yet that's how you felt. And
often we put that on our sons because often, unfortunately

(58:50):
in our communities, the sons are the only males there, right,
so you look to them for that to start you
of that male energy. You want them to be that man.
You know you put you you you love them like
there man. You you want to raise them into be
what you believe to be a man. So you you

(59:11):
you speaking into existence like anything else. You're saying, I'm
gonna win. You know, they say you have to manifest destiny, right,
So if you're speaking to a son and calling the man,
you're hoping that it grows in. But sometimes it has
an adverse effect to where there's too much you know,
responsibility and too much energy placed on that child that

(59:31):
he can't even fulfill. But but, but, but but before
I just I do say, though, then we gotta figure
out what is it? Is it that we're loving on
our sons too much as mothers or are we putting
too much pressure on them? Are we doing both? Like?
What exactly is it? And is that causing the toxic
masculinity issues that we talk about? Well, I mean, because

(59:54):
we have said that there's toxicity on all sides, like
we all deal with toxicity. But are we as mothers
also causing that because in some ways we are loving
up and being hard on or being I don't know,
or forcing an adulthood in young men. And the balance

(01:00:16):
is not it's not healthy, you know, for a child
to grow in the right ways. Our communities also don't
offer opportunity for kids to grow up and just be kids.
But that's a whole different conversation. So you can introduce
your guests. If you like my like you about you
got a lot. There's a lot, you know, I think

(01:00:37):
you might need a little therapist, will listen. You don't
have to tell them, don't think I have one. I
haven't listen. I'm just trying to say, there's a lot,
there's a lot to unpack there. What we're going to do.
I don't have my therapist. I have my wine, but
that's probably not the right The Lord of Mercy help us,
Jesus Christ. Before we go to the next segment and
have our special guests joint, we're going to take a

(01:00:59):
quick break for our sponsors. Listen, We're gonna go into
our change maker section where we have an incredible woman, incredible, incredible,
her energy just speaking to her for two minutes, you
see her energy is just enormous. You know, she is

(01:01:21):
a beautiful woman, she is driven, and she from New
York City. Queen she I mean, we you know, she
from Queens, even though I'm from the Bronx with Queens
come from Queens, so we gotta respect that. But this
is Mscolette Smith. She is the first black woman, but
she is the first black woman to be the coach

(01:01:43):
of the New York Jets, to be one of the coaches.
She's the first black woman to be a coach within
the NFL period, but the first woman to be a
coach of the New York Jets. And get it right,
get it right. Thank you for joining the screen. I'm like,
I'm like Jamica, Jamaica was dead on all right. I'm like,

(01:02:06):
you know what, And here we go once again with
why we got to separate what's right and what's wrong.
Women get it right. Men just do whatever they do. Look,
look that boom. When Jamika talked, she was like, let's
get it right. She's the first black woman to coach

(01:02:28):
in history, and she happens to be the first female. Okay,
well listen as to listen to me as a black man,
Austin corrected, Jamika was a hundred percent correct, and Queen,
we do not want to take away your history, your
history when you are the first black woman to coach

(01:02:49):
in the NFL ever in the history of the NFL.
There are so so you know what as our over
Madam Vice President Kamala Harris and the Madam Vice President.
M v P. For me, as a woman of football,
m v P normally means the most valuable player, but

(01:03:12):
now m v P has a different definition to me.
I'm getting goose bumps. Now. It was not most valuable players.
It is Madame Vice President, as she would say, the first,
but not the last. There are others after me and
I love them, I support them, I expect them, A

(01:03:33):
cheer for them. Yes there are. Why don't I don't
watch football, so I'm about to say something that's like
a little disingenuous, but I do turn it on a
flip by it, or you know, my family members watch it.
Why don't I see more of you all on the
news and you know, uh speaking about the games and

(01:03:54):
running up and you know, I don't. I don't see
a focus on the women because I didn't even know
women were really coaches. I knew there were very a
very few, which the probably still are. But when I
say very few, I'm thinking maybe one tops, and you're
saying they're multiple, There are multiple. I can only tell
you my experience, my experience when I became the first

(01:04:18):
NFL's black female coach, by way, by way of being
the first black the first female coach in New York
judge franchise history, I was muffled. They didn't want to
bring any attention to me. They were trying to be
just doing whatever they do. We're muffled because I don't
believe I believe a guilty conscience, a guilty conscious. It's

(01:04:44):
so raw that they're like you know what, if we
start parading this, it's gonna it's gonna take away or
amplify what is really wrong that we're doing. There's so
much wrong that the NFL does. And mind you, I'm
a football girl. I love the NFL, I love sports,

(01:05:06):
I love football, but there's so much that they're not
doing right. So I was silenced by the way. I'll
tell you this. I was told by marketing and PR people, Hey,
you're not really in anybody here. You're new here. We
don't we don't uh do marketing campaigns or press conferences

(01:05:29):
for new people. You're new. And I was like, okay,
I'll take that, but it was beyond being new. I
was the only woman you ever had the coach in
franchise history. So the other teams, in my opinion, that
other teams they let the female coaches have more interviews

(01:05:49):
and they applauded. They brought that in with me and
the New York Jets. Now we're talking. Let me get
you know what, anybody paying my checks with me? So
I don't owe anybody anything. I'll say this just to
be real. I got no glory, no nothing with the
New York Jets. I didn't everything I did was on

(01:06:13):
my own, my own assertion relationships. Did they do you
think you said the other teams gave their women opportunity
to women that worked for the team's opportunity to speak?
And do you think it was because you were black?
You were a black women? Were there white women? Was
it has to do with race or did it have
to do with sex? What do you think was the

(01:06:33):
main factor that you weren't speaking? Um? I think for
several reasons. One of them is that I was the
only black woman. The other girls and look the other
writer girl, and they were all white. They got those
interviews with ESPN and it felt films, Uh, they got
all of it. I didn't get any of those. I

(01:06:54):
would have to think as a black woman that sees
what goes on and what go down with black people
in America for centuries, that it had to do something
with me being a black girl. Yeah, that's so my answers. Yes,
how do you become an NFL play and you didn't play,

(01:07:16):
I mean coach and you didn't play. I actually was
a women's pro football player. But but I will say this,
there are some NFL coaches that have never played that
are top tier coaches. There are, there are, there are,
there are several. So now let's take that and multiplied

(01:07:40):
by by racism, by genderism, by classism. And here I heard,
and I heard a whole lot. Oh she never played,
and she never And I'm like, so you're gonna tell
me I never played, so I don't deserve to be
an NFL coach? Me. Well, there are other men, white

(01:08:02):
men that have never played, that are top tier coaches.
So come on, I've been We have been dealing with
lynching and black people for years, in all different forms,
whether it be from a tree, whether it be from
a newspaper article, whether it be from our not having

(01:08:22):
good schools. Please tell somebody telling me something different, because
I know what Tom it is. You've been through a
lot of personal things as well. Um, you know, I'd
love to hear from you your story because you know,
there's the professional side, but then there's always the other
side that we don't get to talk about enough. That

(01:08:44):
while we're climbing the ladder and we're smiling and looking
good and walking in the room, because I have seen
you and you do that, you walk in the room
looking good, but on the inside, there's other things going
on UM and and this actually this episode and what
we're talking about is mental health. And so a couple
with the idea that you were fighting being muffled, you

(01:09:07):
were also dealing with personal challenges. Talk a little bit
about what we have experienced. So, UM, I am, I
personally am a five time raped survivor. Um, since then,
I've been a three time suicide survivor. Right, So when
when when when a woman or a man or a

(01:09:28):
boy gets raped? You know, I have family, I'm a
black girl. My family is from the South, Alabama, Louisiana, Mississippi,
and Grandma would tell me, old child, stop, leave it alone.
So now you don't know what to do because your
insights tell you respect your elders, but your heart and

(01:09:50):
your spirit says something's not right, Like why aren't why
ain't y'all standing up to support me? So I've never
had that truth for it. So for me, every step
I take, every thought I have is to empower black youth,
black girls and women to know that, yeah, your thoughts

(01:10:13):
are credible, your thoughts are worthy. So for me, uh,
there's a there's a lot that goes on in a
person's mind where I can I can just simply say
that God gave me the vehicle was to believe in myself.
I would you know what, I'm gonna say this to

(01:10:34):
me because for years I would pray to God and
I would saying, God, please one day make me important,
give me a platform. And I was praying that prayer
as if I wasn't important. And this is what the
world brings to black people, as if we're not worthy.

(01:10:57):
We have to be like, yes, massa, Okay, that's a.
And if it's massa, lets us do something. We should
be grateful. I fought with that as a child, knowing
that something's not something right. I always felt that way.
So now you figure years later God gave me football,

(01:11:18):
and the moment he gave me football, I was like, wait,
wait a minute, what women in football? Pro football? I
wanted to play football in my whole life, but I
was told because I'm a girl, I'm not allowed to
play the same way I might think. Because I'm black,
I can't ride the bus because I'm black, I'm not

(01:11:40):
allowed to read a book. Because I'm black, I can't vote.
So all this was bigger and greater and more than
than me as a woman playing football. It's bigger than football,
and God knew. God knows I am a servant, and
not only in my his servant, I am a servant

(01:12:01):
warrior because he knows. Put me out there. Let's go
game on. I'm a fighting I'm gonna fight for you
to believe in yourself, for your children to believe that
they're worthy. And guess what, at the same time, that's
fighting for me, for all of my hardships, for all

(01:12:22):
of my suicide attempts. I'm I can say I'm I'm
a three time suicide survivor, but there were probably more
attempts that could have happened. It didn't. So we we
faced a lot of issues, and I think there are
issues and you know what, I'm gonna put the blame.

(01:12:42):
I'll do that. I'm gonna put the blame on somebody
else because somebody should have been protecting me. Somebody should
have been telling me I'm worthy. I didn't have that.
So it is mine innate duty to know what I
know and start my own company called Believing You Incorporated

(01:13:03):
through my platforms of me being the first black woman
to coach with NFL history and the first female to
coach in New York. J franchise history to use those
platforms to empower kids that are underserved and marginalized community.
So what let's go. Well, I just want to say
as a black man that I'm I'm sad that you

(01:13:26):
had to go through with you And if I was
you know, if I could have done anything to help,
I wish I was dead. You know, just you know
a lot of times you hear that, you hear these
things and just hearing your pain and just understand, as
a black man, is our duty to protect you and
you know we failed in that aspect so many times,
and hearing your pain just just it kind of just

(01:13:48):
breaks my heart. But just seeing that you were able to,
you know, to persevere past that and overcome and not
only overcome, but to thrive somewhat. They have a place
to come through when they feel like you felt, when
you felt like you were worthy, Like now you created
a space in a place for these young black people
to come to and say, oh, you know what, I

(01:14:09):
am worthy. You know, so I just want to see
you are not just me. You are And you know what,
I don't feel any hardship for other black men. As
a single black woman, I deal with a whole lot
of bullshit. I don't need to from black men. I
will say this, your pain is not mine. I can

(01:14:33):
we can talk through it. But for me, from pain
to power, it is how I live. Right, So when
I visit schools and I and I visit schools and
black neighborhoods, I mean, most most children are sad. Most
children will only believe that they will Both of our

(01:14:57):
black kids will only believe that figure to be the
same way that mama or their daddy is in the
same project. And for me, I'm like, no, you can
do more, you can do more. So when I tell
them I am you, I am you, and you are
me and I've done when I've done, I'm the first

(01:15:21):
black woman to say it again. If you are me,
that's right now. You can't do Oh but but it's okay,
I mean, don't. I don't think we should beat ourselves
up about mistakes because this space is a space where
mistakes that get corrected are good. We can do that, right.

(01:15:43):
There's so much that black folks have, so much that
we possess that could heal another. You know, if we
just had the time to sit and delve into our pains,
our traumas, the things we've been through. There are people
who will sit here and say, how can you get
raped five times? Like what happened for a second and

(01:16:04):
third time? Because we're so ignorant. Sometimes there are people
to say, well, why did you try to kill yourself
three times? And what's you know? But at the end
of the day, first of all, some of us are
drinking ourselves and drugging ourselves. We're trying to commit suicide
right now and just not acknowledging that that's what it is.
But beyond that, you have such a powerful story and

(01:16:28):
what you can do to transform the lives of young
black women. When we work, yes and men, just makes
a man want to step up and just be better.
So definitely. But you know, the work that we do,
we go into communities where our people are really really damaged,

(01:16:52):
really damage. There's different levels to this thing. You can
go to some communities and work with people and they
have a little bit of means and people clean up
around their community, you know, and they and they have
a little bit of um, you know, camaraderie if you will.
But we go into communities and work with people who
are really broken, who really don't have I mean, they

(01:17:14):
live in situations that some of us we couldn't survive
period in those situations, and those are the types of
people who need to hear your story. So I'm just
encouraging you. I know it still hurts you. You You've
done the healing. I'm Jamaica. I'm cool. I'm cool. So

(01:17:36):
for me, I am in those communities that need me
the most, I am. I have principles that will call
me and say, we need you here. I need my
children to hear your pain, your struggles, your tragedies to
your triumphs. Keep doing that and I will not stop

(01:17:59):
you just as to me. And there's so many of
us who say, Lord, you know if you would give
me a platform, I will. I will tell your stories.
I will do your work and um and you're doing it.
Collect We appreciate you, we love and support you, and
you know I want to see you. I gotta figure
out something else we could do together, because we need

(01:18:20):
to say, let me know whatever I could do. I
really just appreciate your transparency and your perseverance man, and
your passion. So you know I'm inspired. I'm motivated by you.
Continue to be great and just walk in your purpose
because you definitely doing that. First woman to coach in

(01:18:43):
the NFL history and the first woman to be a
coach at the New York Jets. Man, we love you,
collect love you, love you right back. Let's go game on,
Game on. Thanks g. Let take care you love you,
love you. That was so great. You just don't even

(01:19:09):
you know, sometimes you we we do interviews and good
interviews and you smile, you laugh, you have a good time.
But you know that that interview pushed me to somewhere else,
you know, pushed me to understand that when you're living
in your purpose, you know, no matter what you're going through,
you know, let's looking at her and the energy that
she has, you know, the transparency like she's willing to cry,

(01:19:31):
she's willing to fight, she's willing to do all the
things necessary to win. Man, So I was motivated by
the interview. Man, I think us for even having the ability,
thus say, I like to think myself. Yea, Man, I
think us for having the ability right and doing whatever
we've done to be able to connect with people like that.

(01:19:54):
Right when we talk about That's what I'm saying, Like,
you know, we sometimes I'm not a person, you know,
we're not we don't have egos anything, but we actually do.
I mean, we don't have big egos that overshadow the world, right,
but we we identify our worth, We identify that we
actually out here doing work. But when you look and

(01:20:14):
see that we're able to connect with and you know,
share space with so many you know, beautiful people, so
many just powerful people and we have those are these
are just friendship, These are just connections that we made.
So you know, I want to thank us for that.
We thank us, thank us, I want to thank us.
But they say a little ego it's necessary in order

(01:20:37):
for you to be great. So we are definitely a
little a little lot. Listen to me. I know, I
know what I could do. I just know what I
can do that you're very confident. I don't know. You
gotta ego, but you're confident. But when I say I
could do something because I could do it, I don't know.
You know what is there a difference between being having

(01:21:00):
ego and being egotistical? I mean we all have an ego,
it's just sing how big it is, how you use
it to How about that? About that? One thing we
don't do is use our anything to hurt other people,
and I think that's what matters. Some people would say
they don't agree with that, but you know, so as

(01:21:21):
we talk about egos and we talk about the work
we've done and how you know, we should acknowledge we've
done some dope ship, we've done some good ship. That's
my new slogan. That's my new slogan. It is just
a regular chick who's done some historic ship. Like that's
because I have to find a way to like get
people to understand who I am. They're struggling with it. Well,

(01:21:44):
you know what it is. I think that brings me
till I don't get it to you. Don't get it,
you know, because it's about you. You know, I want
because it's specifically about you, right, who's done some historic ship,
who constantly every time it's called on the front line,

(01:22:05):
she does things that surpassed the last thing she's done.
It's so and time being celebrated, you know, like they'll
call you and say, we want to give you this award.
To me, I don't want no awards like Tamika, you
need to do this. I don't. We need to promote this.
I don't want to promote. Don't put me at this speaking.

(01:22:25):
I don't want to do let somebody else do it.
Like we literally have to force you into receiving accolades
and taking space that you actually earned. And I just
don't get what is the issue with You're doing the
work like and you do it selflessly. It's not and
I'm not saying that you you should um do the

(01:22:46):
work or do things to be celebrated, but you do
the work, and you deserve to be celebrated. You've earned
these awards, you've earned these accolades, You've earned spaces in
certain places. So I just don't get why. Yeah, you know,
I just don't get why you are so anti receiving
these accolades. You really no, I mean, I hit, but

(01:23:08):
I want you to explain it. That's I don't do
a retake. And no, I really just don't get it.
I just don't get it. Like you just boomed a
C A C P. It's nominated you, right, We're like, oh,
this is dope. You need to and you're like, no, no,
don't for Image Awards. She's like, no, I don't want
to post that. Don't putting that. Enough about me? All
we need to create it. You know, our manager toys

(01:23:30):
like we need to create a campaign, we need to
be doing these things. I don't know. I don't want
to do this. You know, people have to pull teeth
for you to even want to promote it or say
anything about it. I said a whole thing. No, you're saying,
you're asking a question of why. And it was in
my statement about how grateful I am for the award,

(01:23:51):
for the nomination, which is an award in itself, right,
So when I didn't know, I didn't understand until recently,
like the Double A CP Image Awards. If you're nominated,
that's a big thing because that means that somewhere along
the line, people narrow down the choices of all the
people in the world that or in the country that
they could choose, and they narrowed it down to five

(01:24:14):
important people. And I'm in a category that is really
really like hot, like it's it's powerful. I'm in a
category with Debbie Allen, Like how the hell do I
get in the category with Debbie Allen? Like, as far
as I'm Concernedie Allen changed black women and the way
we see ourselves, Like she's so amazing. I'm in the

(01:24:35):
category with Lebron James that's amazing. Um. Of course you know, uh,
April Ryan, who I love and that Maya so much.
And then of course Stacy Abrams, which in my judgment,
Stacy Abrams is gonna win, like she's gonna get the award.
I probably would vote for her myself if I was
even with me on the slate, I would still vote
for Stacy Abrams right now, just understanding everything that she

(01:24:58):
has done to get people in Georgia to the polls
and her contribution not just then, but running for governor,
stepping out there, not being afraid and not being bitter
from the fact that they stole the election from her,
to to go home and say she's done with it,
but to keep coming back, and not to just come
back and keep running for different offices, but instead to

(01:25:21):
create something that actually makes real change and has a
real impact, Um, you know on our people, and so
I I, UM, I appreciate all of them. But the
first time I did write it, and what I said
was that, you know, being that I have, I've been
through a lot of this before. Not the Image Awards,

(01:25:42):
even though we were acknowledged that the Image Awards a
few years back for the work that Justice League was
doing Carmen, and Jamal was up there, Bryant Reven Jamal
Bryant Um and others. So we have been especially the
work that we have been doing in Flint, Michigan. Um
we were acknowledged for that during the Image Rewards several
years ago. But being nominated by myself and acknowledged outside

(01:26:06):
of it being a threesome with Carmen and Linda or
the Women's March or something like that, that's that's that's
feels good and it's important, of course it is. But
I've been on the cover of Glamor magazine. I've been
honored by every single organization you could think of, and
particularly fit particularly major like historic women's organizations, organizations that

(01:26:31):
people like Glorias Steinhum are founders of and sit on
the board. I mean, I've seen all of this, but
I also have felt the brunt of how you can
be exalted on one side and then torn down on
the other. And so sometimes it just feels more comfortable
to stay under the radar, because once people begin to

(01:26:52):
see you receiving your well deserved credit, the haters come
like they have never ever been on you be for
and the problem and I and and to be honest,
since we're talking about mental health today, it is I'm
still dealing with the trauma of what I experienced when
I was under a major, major attack. And I think

(01:27:15):
the thing that impacted me the most wasn't even the attack,
because people around me, they told me and showed me
and reminded me of what I already know. That most
leaders black leaders have experienced the exact same attack that
I went exactly the same, not even a little, exactly

(01:27:37):
the same, right, And and some of them have been killed.
So at least I'm still here because Dr King was
thirty nine, and so I'm you know, I'm I'm I'm
surpassing him in age, right and I'm not saying anything
like Dr King because see, they'll come after me for that.
But who is the We can do a whole episod.
But but I have I've seen this, right, and I

(01:28:00):
know how it feels, and the trauma that I experience,
what I went through, I don't know if I have
been able to get over it. And then the worst
part of it is watching people who you served, people
you stood for and with, people you worked for and
with and and and and really um supported and and

(01:28:23):
dedicated so much of your life to turn their backs
on you and to have other people stand up more
for you, to don't even know you, and to be
there for you than those who you actually thought loved
and cared for you despite whatever may have happened. Wherever you,
guys may have you know, wherever you might fall out
as we say, to see that happen, it's extremely painful.

(01:28:46):
Now as far as I'm concerned, I'm at the point
of bump those people like I. I'm beyond that, but
I know what that feels like, and I hate I
don't even want to put people close to me in
a position to have to learn that they so full
of ship like some of the people that I have
learned that about in my past. So it's just a
lot of trauma. It's a lot of trauma. Is something

(01:29:08):
that me and my therapist, we are deep into it.
My therapist is specifically trying to address how I, you know,
how I have to be able to let go. That
was our last conversation. It was about letting go of
the past because the past is hindering me from experiencing

(01:29:31):
the now, Like I don't even get a chance to
feel good about a moment because I am living in this,
you know, feeling of like when are they gonna come?
And I already know, I already know that somebody somewhere
is waiting on the opportunity as soon as they can
grab onto something to try to destroy me. Now what

(01:29:52):
I also know, and this is what's sustains mean. This
is why I do get to the point where I
post the thing and I say the stuff, and I
finally be like, I don't care, and let me put
my cue outfit on and go take a picture and
post it and I don't care if you like it
or it's not, and yes, hey this can hate, I
don't care. But when I get to that point is
when I sit down and recognize how how good God

(01:30:13):
has been to me, and how throughout every situation, even
in the worst worst of times, it wasn't as bad
as I thought it was. And how many people, how
new friends, new supporters, people who were always there but
you weren't necessarily paying attention to them, How they show
up and they show out and they stand for you,

(01:30:36):
and that no matter what people are saying about you,
the real ones get it. The real ones get that
we're not perfect. We make mistakes. We do things that
people may not understand. The real ones get that. You know,
it's not gonna always look shiny, but it's still is
a process that you go through that I feel like
I don't have to go through it. If you just
don't give me nothing, I'm good. And I think I

(01:30:58):
think for me right and understand that, and I hear it.
And I think when we talk about what Hill was
talking about right about this armor that we were, I
think I've been in those situations right. I've been incarcerated
for crimes I didn't commit. At a peak time in
my life, my career, I was just signed a record deal,
the hottest person in the world, had all these producers,

(01:31:19):
all these artists that was calling me, yo, we want
to do this, and that When you was locked up,
people want to connect themselves to you because it gave
them some level of you know, um credibility and oh
that's my man. And then when you actually come home
and people don't feel like they benefit you or they
can benefit from you, and you're not as hot, They've

(01:31:40):
turn it back on you. People have blackballed you and
and done certain things. And I think the fact that
I was able to go through prison and utilize the
shell that I had right and say to myself, I
don't need these people like That's how I persevered, like
I've been, like I was. I heard my man Gilly
and Um Wilow talking about how many lives he had.

(01:32:03):
He said, I had about four or five lives. They
thought I was dead four or five times, right in fact.
And I continue because I believed in me more than anything.
When you was telling me I was trashed, I was
the worst person I was. Dad, don't rap again, don't
do this. I never believe that, right. I always believe
that I was better than with somebody else. I didn't
believe I was right. So when I see you going

(01:32:25):
through this and something like yo, you have the opportunity
to not only to um prove that they say is wrong,
but continue to move in your greatness. And it's because
you've been authentic, right, So receive your accoladi. No not you,
but you. You receive them. But the people who know
you'd be like, oh, they know that it's it's pulling
teeth for you to be able to do things. I'd

(01:32:46):
be like posted you you know, and you worried so
much about how you received a lot, right, even though
you moved. Listen to me, But you are mis characterizing
what it is is. It's not that I'm worried about it.
It's that, despite what some people would think, I have
always been a very humble person. Right, And I don't

(01:33:10):
know if you can call yourself humble. But I even
I know that I'm I know I'm fly right. I
know that it's no doubt in my mind. I'm clear
that I have all the things that make up a
great woman. I know that because even my imperfections make
me who I am. I know that you know what
I understand, this is the truth. I know. I will

(01:33:32):
also whoop somebody's ass. So I realized that I can't
be getting into too many back and forth with some
of these people that be bothering me about life to
tell you, I have to let them, let them, let
them just talk, and let me be quiet. The problem
is you don't have to be quiet to let them
just talk, right, Because I say, you say, Midy, you
need to sit and say that I'm but I'm definitely

(01:33:53):
gonna say that, and you're like, I don't even understand you,
and I don't want to have I want somebody I
don't know. The bottom line is, I'm so comfortable who
I am and what I believe that what you think
of what I believe has no bearing. Like somebody told me,
your opinion of me is your business. So that's what

(01:34:14):
you got to realize what somebody feels about what you
you're acting what God has given to you. Ain't nobody
can take it from you to go out there and
get it. Hallelujah, hallelujah that the church, the doors of
the church are open. And on that note, I appreciate

(01:34:34):
the world acknowledging the things that we've done. And when
I received an award or I received some acknowledgment, I
received it on behalf of so many people who helped
to make up to me a Mallory story. A man,
we're about to get them T shirts. What is it again,
I'm just a regular chick who's done some histories T shirts.
Until freedom coming soon, listention, But you are until freedom

(01:35:02):
business work. We need to talk to our director Cat
Trigg because that's not how uh business work. Now using
my life. But but you until freedom is you using
your life anyway? Listen, Man, I ain't gonna always be right.
Tamika might be a lot of times wrong more than

(01:35:24):
she's right, but she's still a good person. But you
know one thing, we both are always going to be authentic.
Always that. Thank you so much for joining us. We'll
see you next week. Street Street politicians number one, number one,
we number one, number one, number one in the world.
Put in the world more. We gotta get up there
and beat the others. We keep working peace,