In today's episode, Brent Lang, Variety's executive editor, analyzes the recent executive moves and Sony Pictures and Paramount, and he discusses the mood in the broader film business amid encouraging signs from the summer box office. And host Cynthia Littleton offers a tutorial on Variety's famous "slanguage," starting with "tubthump."
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to Daily Variety, your daily dose of news and
analysis for entertainment industry insiders. It's Tuesday, July twenty ninth,
twenty twenty five. I'm your host, Cynthia Littleton. I am
co editor in chief of Variety alongside Ramin Setuda. I'm
in LA He's in New York, and Variety has reporters
around the world covering the business of entertainment. In today's episode,
(00:30):
we'll talk with Brent Lang, executive editor of Variety who
leads all film coverage. He talks about the executive shakeups
on the film side at Sony Pictures, which was prompted
by the move of a senior executive to Paramount, and Paramount,
as listeners of this podcast know, is on the cusp
of many big changes. And then I will offer a
(00:51):
short tutorial on Variety's proud history of making up our
own words. We call it slanguage. But before we get
to that, here are a few headlines just in this
morning that you need to know. Nilsen's second quarter TV
viewing numbers are in and they show that ad supported
platforms still account for nearly seventy four percent of all
(01:13):
viewing in the US. Streaming platforms account for a little
more than forty five percent of all viewing. Broadcast networks
are at about twenty six percent, and cable is nearly
thirty percent. Overall viewing is down nine percent from Q one.
That's summertime for you, Darman, Mark Roeber and a handful
(01:34):
of other prominent YouTubers have signed fast channel deals with
Samsung TV plus. This feels like a harbinger of deals
to come. Spotify's posted strong second quarter subscriber growth with
its earnings report this morning. Spotify Premium subscribers jump twelve
percent euro over year to two hundred and seventy six
(01:55):
million worldwide, but the streamer still posted a net loss
for the frame. Now we turn to conversations with variety
journalists about news and trends in show business. Brent Lang
discusses the executive shuffling across two studios, Sony Pictures and
Paramount Pictures, and we talk about the overall mood in
(02:15):
the film business amid promising summer box office numbers. Brent Lang,
thank you so much for joining me, Thanks for having me.
The industry woke up Monday morning to news of an
executive shakeup, not at the very top of Sony Pictures,
but are reshuffling in the middle film ranks. And that
really felt like a part two to news that broke
(02:35):
over the weekend about Josh Greenstein going to Paramount for
both studios. What do you think is going on here
and what is the significance of it?
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Well, I think mostly this clarifies what everybody had assumed
was going to happen, which was that Josh was going
to move over to Paramount. This has been in the
works for over a year. There's been a lot of
rumors that he was leaving. And what it does is
it just formalizes that Sanford Panich is going to remain
at the studio as president of the Motion Picture Group.
He was co president with Josh. And then it also
(03:07):
elevates Peter Kang, who has been at the studio i
think for five or six years, to be in charge
of production, which is a very large role that kind
of oversees the kind of the day to day operations
of all the different things that are filming. And of
course Tom Rothman, who's a legendary studio head who's become
the elder statesman of Hollywood. He's done a very good
(03:27):
job of figuring out where Sony and its film division
should sit in a very complicated landscape. And what he's
realized is that the studio could be very well positioned
to be a seller of content to the various streamers
as opposed to spending the capital and the time launching
their own in house streaming service. So he did a
(03:49):
really able job of doing that. And then he's done
a pretty good job of building up Sony's library of franchises,
because that's always been something that they have suffered with
in comparison to some of the other major studios.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
For sure, Sony under Rothman has left no doubt about
where they stand. They are very, very committed to the
theatrical experience. So with Josh Greenstein going over to Paramount,
he had been co head of the Motion Picture group
under Tom Rothman, the co head with Sandford Panich. Now
Sandford is now solo head. He's of course a long
time colleague of Rothman. He was at Fox and then
(04:25):
came to join him later at Sony. Were there any
factors there that surprised you.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
He's a very close confidant of Tom Rothman. Sanford was
known for the creative connections for overseeing budgets things of
that nature, whereas Josh really he came up through marketing.
He's a very well respected marketer. I assume there will
be questions about whether or not at some point they
will hire someone to build that role.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Let's shift the question now to Paramount, which is in
the midst of a transition. So, Brent, my question for
you about Josh Greenstein's move move to Paramount. The Paramount
Skydance Media merger is expected to close by August seventh.
There's a lot in transition there right now. Why would
he be hired for this senior role before there's even
clarity as to who's going to be doing what at
(05:13):
Paramount Pictures and of other divisions. What are you hearing
about the scope of his job.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Well, I'm not sure that Skydance was happy that Josh's
hire got out this early. It was an open secret
in Hollywood, which you know, obviously, nothing stays secret Raylan
in Hollywood. My sense is that his role will not
be exactly what Brian Robbins was doing, and that his
purview may move beyond just movies. I don't know if
(05:40):
that means that it will involve streaming as well. Because
sky Dance has also hired Cindy Holland, who ran TV
at Netflix for a while, so they have a very
strong person there. I think Dana Goldberg, who is their
chief creative officer at Skydance, is going to have a
very big role at the merged company. So it's a
little unclear, but assume that part of what they are
(06:02):
hoping Josh will do is bring some of that marketing
expertise to their overall operations.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
What is your sense in the film business the Paramount's
Guidance merger. After a lot of obstacles, it does actually
look like it's getting to the finish line. Do you
think is there hope in the business that's guidanced that
this influx will restore Paramount to something like it's for
former Glory as a Hollywood major studio. The sense optimism
or is there still sort of a pessimism that, Wow,
(06:30):
this company really has a long road to go now.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
I think that people are glad that there's stability, and
then they're also glad that Paramount wasn't just sold to
another film studio where it would have just been folded
into those operations, and probably that would have meant fewer
films and there will be terrible layoffs because of this merger,
but it would have been even more extreme if it
had been part of a pre existing studio. So I
(06:53):
think there's a sense of relief there. So I think
the idea that somebody with his deep pockets as David
Ellison and Larry Ellison are coming in here could help
with some of those concerns. I do think that the
way that this merger was approved, the settlement that happened
with the Trump administration over CBS News, some of the
(07:16):
comments to gain the approval of the FCC about DEI
I think there are some concerns. Hollywood is a very
liberal town. I think there's some worries that artists will
not be respected, and so I think there's going to
be some thing of a charm offensive that needs to happen.
That said, you know, if people are willing to green
(07:38):
light passion projects, if they're willing to support them, something
tells me that even if someone has some political objections
to maybe how this happened, they'll be able to suck
it up and make movies there.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
I suspect you'll see, like as is often the case,
after merger, some flashy moves to show hey, we mean business.
This is what we're going to do. This is what
we're going to bring to the table. Absolutely, you to
step back a few more feet and look kind of
in the broader film business. I know from talking to
Rebecca every Monday for box office reports that year to
date the box office overall is up about twelve to
(08:12):
thirteen percent over last year. It's a good sign, and
the pipeline has been flush. How do you think people
are feeling in the general sort of the Hollywood and
New York film business? How do you think people are
feeling after what has been basically a strong summer.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
I think people are feeling better about the overall health
of the theatrical space, and there is a sense that
people still want to see movies in theaters, and they're
still looking for events in their cultural life, and that's
something that movies uniquely provide. That's good for cinemas, which
is good for the overall business. But if you're a studio,
there are other concerns that you have. One of them
(08:48):
is that the domestic business is doing much better than
it has been since COVID, but the overall global marketplace
has really shrunk a lot. China kind of a black hole.
It used to be one of the strongest markets for movies,
but tensions with the US and a kind of a
rise of local language projects and product there has meant
(09:13):
that that market is not delivering the kind of grosses
that it was, you know, five six years ago. And
then Russia, of course, because of what's happened in Ukraine,
has kind of been offline. That was a fairly major market.
So when you're looking at a movie like Superman, Superman
has done very well domestically, it wasn't as much of
(09:33):
an international play, but it will end up grossing about
the same globally as Man of Steel did and I
think twenty thirteen or twenty fourteen, and some of that
is just a sign of how much smaller that overall
global marketplace has been. And that's a problem because it's
not like movies have gotten cheaper to make. Inflation has
(09:54):
absolutely taken over the movie business. There were COVID delays,
strike delays, and so most of the these major blockbusters
cost more than two hundred million dollars to produce, some
of them even north of three hundred million dollars. And
because movie theaters keep half of ticket sales. If you're
going to make money theatrically, which very few movies do,
(10:14):
you need to double your spending and then add to
that production budget one hundred to one hundred and fifty
million dollars in marketing costs. And you're looking at movies
that are going to just barely break even despite the
fact that they're making six hundred seven hundred million dollars.
And so I think everybody in Hollywood is looking at
this seeing some positive signs, but also realizing that there's
(10:36):
a real cost problem that they have to get their
hands around.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Brent, thank you very much for helping us kind of
sort through the real politique of what's going on at
a turbulent time for every part of our business, but
particularly the business you love so much, the film world.
Thanks for having me. Next up, I'm happy to introduce
what will be a recurring segment called Vintage Variety. We
(11:00):
are not shy about celebrating our storied history and our
proud legacy and entertainment, so let's step into the wayback machine.
For one hundred and twenty years in counting, Variety has
been known for zingy, irreverent headlines and our famous slanguage. Slanguage,
which is the word language with an S on the front,
(11:23):
is the glossary of old Variety, its industry jargon that
we invented soap, opera, sitcom, biopic dj You read those
words in Variety first. One of my favorites language words
is tub thump. It means exactly what. It suggests that
someone is in heavy promotion mode, an actor or a
(11:44):
director or a studio. It conjures the image of a
person walking around thumping an upside down washtub to make noise.
Here's a fun usage from the April seventeenth, nineteen fifty
two edition of Daily Variety, in a story dateline from Dallas,
where Humphrey Bogart was promoting his new movie The African Queen.
(12:05):
Here's the story. Humphrey Bogart, who was out tub thumping
The African Queen yesterday, finished up in Dallas after visiting
San Antonio, Houston, Fort Worth, and ten other Texas towns
end quote. This three paragraph story includes a good example
of vintage Variety irreverence. It ends with a nod to
(12:26):
Bogart's reputation as a hard drinking guy. We wrote quote
Bogart is particularly pleased that, despite the overwhelming Texas hospitality,
he's resisted all offers of bourbon and branchwater. Instead, he's
sticking to health giving scotch and plain water. End quote.
Help you enjoyed this tutorial. More glossary items to come
(12:52):
as we close out today's episode. Here are a few
things we're watching for. Jerry Bruckheimer, Matt and Ross Stuffer,
Catherine Pope of Sony Pictures TV, and Brett Paul of
Warner Brothers TV are among the speakers lined up for
Variety's Entertainment Technology Summit. The day long event will be
held in LA on September twenty five. Project Runway is
(13:14):
back on Thursday on a new network. The fashion design
competition series debuts Thursday on Freeform. Heidi Klum and Christian
Siriano are back. Tim Gunn is not before we go.
Congrats to Jennifer Way. She's joined the music label and
publishing firm Empire as Executive VP for Nashville. She was
(13:34):
previously Senior VP of Sony Music Nashville. Thanks for listening.
This episode was written and reported by me Cynthia Littleton,
with contributions from Brent Lang. It was edited by Aaron
Greenwald Stick's Nick's hick Picks. Please leave us a review
at the podcast platform of your choice, and please tune
in tomorrow for another episode of Daily Variety.
Welcome to Daily Variety, your daily dose of news and
analysis for entertainment industry insiders. It's Tuesday, July twenty ninth,
twenty twenty five. I'm your host, Cynthia Littleton. I am
co editor in chief of Variety alongside Ramin Setuda. I'm
in LA He's in New York, and Variety has reporters
around the world covering the business of entertainment. In today's episode,
(00:30):
we'll talk with Brent Lang, executive editor of Variety who
leads all film coverage. He talks about the executive shakeups
on the film side at Sony Pictures, which was prompted
by the move of a senior executive to Paramount, and Paramount,
as listeners of this podcast know, is on the cusp
of many big changes. And then I will offer a
(00:51):
short tutorial on Variety's proud history of making up our
own words. We call it slanguage. But before we get
to that, here are a few headlines just in this
morning that you need to know. Nilsen's second quarter TV
viewing numbers are in and they show that ad supported
platforms still account for nearly seventy four percent of all
(01:13):
viewing in the US. Streaming platforms account for a little
more than forty five percent of all viewing. Broadcast networks
are at about twenty six percent, and cable is nearly
thirty percent. Overall viewing is down nine percent from Q one.
That's summertime for you, Darman, Mark Roeber and a handful
(01:34):
of other prominent YouTubers have signed fast channel deals with
Samsung TV plus. This feels like a harbinger of deals
to come. Spotify's posted strong second quarter subscriber growth with
its earnings report this morning. Spotify Premium subscribers jump twelve
percent euro over year to two hundred and seventy six
(01:55):
million worldwide, but the streamer still posted a net loss
for the frame. Now we turn to conversations with variety
journalists about news and trends in show business. Brent Lang
discusses the executive shuffling across two studios, Sony Pictures and
Paramount Pictures, and we talk about the overall mood in
(02:15):
the film business amid promising summer box office numbers. Brent Lang,
thank you so much for joining me, Thanks for having me.
The industry woke up Monday morning to news of an
executive shakeup, not at the very top of Sony Pictures,
but are reshuffling in the middle film ranks. And that
really felt like a part two to news that broke
(02:35):
over the weekend about Josh Greenstein going to Paramount for
both studios. What do you think is going on here
and what is the significance of it?
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Well, I think mostly this clarifies what everybody had assumed
was going to happen, which was that Josh was going
to move over to Paramount. This has been in the
works for over a year. There's been a lot of
rumors that he was leaving. And what it does is
it just formalizes that Sanford Panich is going to remain
at the studio as president of the Motion Picture Group.
He was co president with Josh. And then it also
(03:07):
elevates Peter Kang, who has been at the studio i
think for five or six years, to be in charge
of production, which is a very large role that kind
of oversees the kind of the day to day operations
of all the different things that are filming. And of
course Tom Rothman, who's a legendary studio head who's become
the elder statesman of Hollywood. He's done a very good
(03:27):
job of figuring out where Sony and its film division
should sit in a very complicated landscape. And what he's
realized is that the studio could be very well positioned
to be a seller of content to the various streamers
as opposed to spending the capital and the time launching
their own in house streaming service. So he did a
(03:49):
really able job of doing that. And then he's done
a pretty good job of building up Sony's library of franchises,
because that's always been something that they have suffered with
in comparison to some of the other major studios.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
For sure, Sony under Rothman has left no doubt about
where they stand. They are very, very committed to the
theatrical experience. So with Josh Greenstein going over to Paramount,
he had been co head of the Motion Picture group
under Tom Rothman, the co head with Sandford Panich. Now
Sandford is now solo head. He's of course a long
time colleague of Rothman. He was at Fox and then
(04:25):
came to join him later at Sony. Were there any
factors there that surprised you.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
He's a very close confidant of Tom Rothman. Sanford was
known for the creative connections for overseeing budgets things of
that nature, whereas Josh really he came up through marketing.
He's a very well respected marketer. I assume there will
be questions about whether or not at some point they
will hire someone to build that role.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Let's shift the question now to Paramount, which is in
the midst of a transition. So, Brent, my question for
you about Josh Greenstein's move move to Paramount. The Paramount
Skydance Media merger is expected to close by August seventh.
There's a lot in transition there right now. Why would
he be hired for this senior role before there's even
clarity as to who's going to be doing what at
(05:13):
Paramount Pictures and of other divisions. What are you hearing
about the scope of his job.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Well, I'm not sure that Skydance was happy that Josh's
hire got out this early. It was an open secret
in Hollywood, which you know, obviously, nothing stays secret Raylan
in Hollywood. My sense is that his role will not
be exactly what Brian Robbins was doing, and that his
purview may move beyond just movies. I don't know if
(05:40):
that means that it will involve streaming as well. Because
sky Dance has also hired Cindy Holland, who ran TV
at Netflix for a while, so they have a very
strong person there. I think Dana Goldberg, who is their
chief creative officer at Skydance, is going to have a
very big role at the merged company. So it's a
little unclear, but assume that part of what they are
(06:02):
hoping Josh will do is bring some of that marketing
expertise to their overall operations.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
What is your sense in the film business the Paramount's
Guidance merger. After a lot of obstacles, it does actually
look like it's getting to the finish line. Do you
think is there hope in the business that's guidanced that
this influx will restore Paramount to something like it's for
former Glory as a Hollywood major studio. The sense optimism
or is there still sort of a pessimism that, Wow,
(06:30):
this company really has a long road to go now.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
I think that people are glad that there's stability, and
then they're also glad that Paramount wasn't just sold to
another film studio where it would have just been folded
into those operations, and probably that would have meant fewer
films and there will be terrible layoffs because of this merger,
but it would have been even more extreme if it
had been part of a pre existing studio. So I
(06:53):
think there's a sense of relief there. So I think
the idea that somebody with his deep pockets as David
Ellison and Larry Ellison are coming in here could help
with some of those concerns. I do think that the
way that this merger was approved, the settlement that happened
with the Trump administration over CBS News, some of the
(07:16):
comments to gain the approval of the FCC about DEI
I think there are some concerns. Hollywood is a very
liberal town. I think there's some worries that artists will
not be respected, and so I think there's going to
be some thing of a charm offensive that needs to happen.
That said, you know, if people are willing to green
(07:38):
light passion projects, if they're willing to support them, something
tells me that even if someone has some political objections
to maybe how this happened, they'll be able to suck
it up and make movies there.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
I suspect you'll see, like as is often the case,
after merger, some flashy moves to show hey, we mean business.
This is what we're going to do. This is what
we're going to bring to the table. Absolutely, you to
step back a few more feet and look kind of
in the broader film business. I know from talking to
Rebecca every Monday for box office reports that year to
date the box office overall is up about twelve to
(08:12):
thirteen percent over last year. It's a good sign, and
the pipeline has been flush. How do you think people
are feeling in the general sort of the Hollywood and
New York film business? How do you think people are
feeling after what has been basically a strong summer.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
I think people are feeling better about the overall health
of the theatrical space, and there is a sense that
people still want to see movies in theaters, and they're
still looking for events in their cultural life, and that's
something that movies uniquely provide. That's good for cinemas, which
is good for the overall business. But if you're a studio,
there are other concerns that you have. One of them
(08:48):
is that the domestic business is doing much better than
it has been since COVID, but the overall global marketplace
has really shrunk a lot. China kind of a black hole.
It used to be one of the strongest markets for movies,
but tensions with the US and a kind of a
rise of local language projects and product there has meant
(09:13):
that that market is not delivering the kind of grosses
that it was, you know, five six years ago. And
then Russia, of course, because of what's happened in Ukraine,
has kind of been offline. That was a fairly major market.
So when you're looking at a movie like Superman, Superman
has done very well domestically, it wasn't as much of
(09:33):
an international play, but it will end up grossing about
the same globally as Man of Steel did and I
think twenty thirteen or twenty fourteen, and some of that
is just a sign of how much smaller that overall
global marketplace has been. And that's a problem because it's
not like movies have gotten cheaper to make. Inflation has
(09:54):
absolutely taken over the movie business. There were COVID delays,
strike delays, and so most of the these major blockbusters
cost more than two hundred million dollars to produce, some
of them even north of three hundred million dollars. And
because movie theaters keep half of ticket sales. If you're
going to make money theatrically, which very few movies do,
(10:14):
you need to double your spending and then add to
that production budget one hundred to one hundred and fifty
million dollars in marketing costs. And you're looking at movies
that are going to just barely break even despite the
fact that they're making six hundred seven hundred million dollars.
And so I think everybody in Hollywood is looking at
this seeing some positive signs, but also realizing that there's
(10:36):
a real cost problem that they have to get their
hands around.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Brent, thank you very much for helping us kind of
sort through the real politique of what's going on at
a turbulent time for every part of our business, but
particularly the business you love so much, the film world.
Thanks for having me. Next up, I'm happy to introduce
what will be a recurring segment called Vintage Variety. We
(11:00):
are not shy about celebrating our storied history and our
proud legacy and entertainment, so let's step into the wayback machine.
For one hundred and twenty years in counting, Variety has
been known for zingy, irreverent headlines and our famous slanguage. Slanguage,
which is the word language with an S on the front,
(11:23):
is the glossary of old Variety, its industry jargon that
we invented soap, opera, sitcom, biopic dj You read those
words in Variety first. One of my favorites language words
is tub thump. It means exactly what. It suggests that
someone is in heavy promotion mode, an actor or a
(11:44):
director or a studio. It conjures the image of a
person walking around thumping an upside down washtub to make noise.
Here's a fun usage from the April seventeenth, nineteen fifty
two edition of Daily Variety, in a story dateline from Dallas,
where Humphrey Bogart was promoting his new movie The African Queen.
(12:05):
Here's the story. Humphrey Bogart, who was out tub thumping
The African Queen yesterday, finished up in Dallas after visiting
San Antonio, Houston, Fort Worth, and ten other Texas towns
end quote. This three paragraph story includes a good example
of vintage Variety irreverence. It ends with a nod to
(12:26):
Bogart's reputation as a hard drinking guy. We wrote quote
Bogart is particularly pleased that, despite the overwhelming Texas hospitality,
he's resisted all offers of bourbon and branchwater. Instead, he's
sticking to health giving scotch and plain water. End quote.
Help you enjoyed this tutorial. More glossary items to come
(12:52):
as we close out today's episode. Here are a few
things we're watching for. Jerry Bruckheimer, Matt and Ross Stuffer,
Catherine Pope of Sony Pictures TV, and Brett Paul of
Warner Brothers TV are among the speakers lined up for
Variety's Entertainment Technology Summit. The day long event will be
held in LA on September twenty five. Project Runway is
(13:14):
back on Thursday on a new network. The fashion design
competition series debuts Thursday on Freeform. Heidi Klum and Christian
Siriano are back. Tim Gunn is not before we go.
Congrats to Jennifer Way. She's joined the music label and
publishing firm Empire as Executive VP for Nashville. She was
(13:34):
previously Senior VP of Sony Music Nashville. Thanks for listening.
This episode was written and reported by me Cynthia Littleton,
with contributions from Brent Lang. It was edited by Aaron
Greenwald Stick's Nick's hick Picks. Please leave us a review
at the podcast platform of your choice, and please tune
in tomorrow for another episode of Daily Variety.
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