October 3, 2025 • 24 mins
On today’s episode, hear highlights from Variety’s Entertainment and Technology Summit including a lively session with digital native creatives Nicole Byer, Erin Foster, Sara Foster, Matt Rogers, Jake Shane and Benito Skinner, moderated by Variety’s Marc Malkin. Plus, highlights from a session with John Stamos and Zeam CEO Jack Perry detailing their build-out plans for the live streaming platform.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Strictly Business, Variety's weekly podcast featuring conversations with
industry leaders about the business of media and entertainment. I'm
your host, Cynthia Littleton, co editor in chief of Variety.
Today's episode features highlights from two lively and informative panels
that Variety hosted on September twenty fifth at our annual
Entertainment and Technology conference in Los Angeles. The day was
(00:22):
packed with great speakers who got right to the point
of the day, the intersection of Hollywood and Silicon Valley.
Last week's Strictly Business episode featured the opening panel of
the Entertainment and Technology event, a session I moderated with
the group of heavyweight TV and streaming executives. This week's
(00:42):
installment opens with highlights from the final session of the day.
My great colleague Mark Malkin, Vrighty's senior editor of Culture
and Events, moderated in session with the fabulous representative sample
of successful digital media entrepreneurs slash Personalities. Then after that
we'll hear a slice of my conversation with streaming pioneer
(01:04):
Jack Perry, CEO of ZEM and the inimitable John Stamos.
The two spoke with me about their partnership on the
zine's streaming platform, which is in the middle of a
very ambitious buildout. Mark's conversation with the six Digital multi
hyphenates ranges widely, and it can be hard to keep
(01:25):
track of who's who unless you happen to be a
super fan of all of them. But it's really more
about listening to the points they make on how younger
and older millennials view their opportunities in the entertainment arena
these days. Mark also gets them to talk about their
own entertainment and social media habits and preferences. Regular listeners
of Strictly Business know that I love nothing more than
(01:47):
talking to everyday people at conferences and fan conventions about
what they watch, how they watch, when they watch at all.
It's fascinating, So enjoy the ride here as Mark converses
with Nicole Byer, host of Why Don't You Date Me?
Aaron and Sarah Foster, executive producers of Nobody Wants This,
and hosts of the world's first podcast, Matt Rogers, host
(02:11):
of Las Culturistas, Jake Shane, host of therapust and Benito Skinner, creator, writer,
executive producer and star of Overcompensating and host of Ride.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Here's the panel, so let's do a little introduction. Nicole
Bayer host Why Don't You Date Me?
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Who?
Speaker 4 (02:30):
This is their podcast?
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Aaron Foster, Sarah Foster, EP Nobody Wants This and host
of the World's First podcast, Thanks Sarah.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Thanks.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Aaron Fosser, creator, writer and EP of Nobody Wants This
and host the World's First Put Put Jake Shane, host
of Therapists, Benito Skinner, creator writer, EP actor Compensating and
(03:04):
host Ride. And Matt Rogers He Does Like Everything Also,
and hosts of Last Say Them All.
Speaker 4 (03:15):
Chapter, Makeup Artists, costume designer, influencer or host Lost Carter Recess.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Hi, everybody. I want to start off with just asking
about the platforms, the apps that you guys are scrolling
the most. I want to know where are you looking
for stories? What are you enjoying the most?
Speaker 5 (03:39):
I love Instagram. I love it so much. Give me pictures,
give me videos. I'm happy.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
What about you, Sarah?
Speaker 5 (03:48):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (03:48):
Yeah, I mean I think Instagram obviously is the place
that I am the most. It moves the needle the most.
I think for our businesses. It's football season, so I'm
on YouTube a lot.
Speaker 5 (03:58):
No, you go on Twitter a lot too.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Yeah, but I don't know the algorithm is.
Speaker 6 (04:05):
I'm so curious to see what the I mean, Nicole,
you're much younger than us two, but we're like the
young people think of us saying Instagram because I do
think it makes us seem old, because Instagram is like millennials,
and it is the only platform I look at. And
then when I'm feeling like really disgusting and dirty, I'll
go on the Daily Mail just to like feel really
bad about myself. And now they've changed it up where
(04:26):
like most of the interesting things are like exclusives you
have to pay, and I'm like, I'm obviously not going
to pay for that. But on a dark day, like
you never know, I.
Speaker 7 (04:35):
Also read the Daily Mail, but only on like the
Snapchat daily mail app.
Speaker 5 (04:40):
Yeah, honestly, I think darker.
Speaker 7 (04:43):
It's awesome.
Speaker 5 (04:44):
I guarantee you Aaron does not have a same.
Speaker 7 (04:46):
No, they pick out the they pick out the best stories.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
You.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
He just read you so much.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
I don't even have Snapchat.
Speaker 7 (04:54):
It's amazing, and I read the ones I'm most interested in,
but I use TikTok the most probably or sometimes Twitter.
I just think it's interesting. I like all the charte
accounts that talk about different pop girls. Yeah, so same.
Speaker 5 (05:09):
I feel like Instagram was my first love.
Speaker 7 (05:12):
I love it so much so that and then I'm
on TikTok a lot, I would say.
Speaker 8 (05:17):
And then I don't even go near Twitter because I
can't hate myself more. Yeah, deeply Instagram, I'm the same.
And also I'm gonna give like a millennial answer too.
I guess an aging millennial answer here, like the end
Dell Sleep app is everything, like all sorts of soundscapes.
Speaker 5 (05:32):
And I'm a YouTube person too. I will just refresh
the YouTube.
Speaker 8 (05:35):
I think I'm part of the problem, like not watching
TV because I will just refresh YouTube and that's the day.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Well, yeah, do any of you watch TV? Yeah?
Speaker 8 (05:47):
I watched over compensating Sason, one of them run, I
did it. I saw on Instagram the new trailer where
nobody wants this today?
Speaker 5 (05:54):
I'm better.
Speaker 9 (05:55):
Hello.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Obviously all of you are on multiple platforms. How do
you decide what goes to what platform?
Speaker 5 (06:04):
Length of the clip.
Speaker 6 (06:07):
Well, I was just wondering how many platforms there are,
like where does it go? Because I don't really know.
Speaker 8 (06:12):
I couldn't think of anything besides Instagram for the app question.
Speaker 5 (06:15):
So I don't know, I like.
Speaker 9 (06:17):
Don't utilize or sorry you go you first.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
I would way rather hear from you about platforms because
I really.
Speaker 7 (06:22):
Am for Instagram, it usually is just photos. I don't
really sometimes all do videos, but most I really just
kind of do the distinction. Well, if it's a photo,
I'll do Instagram. If it's a video, I'll do TikTok.
And that's really just as simple as it is for me.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
It's a really scientific method.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
I feel like we have this conversation all the time
is how best to utilize social.
Speaker 5 (06:45):
Media to our advantage?
Speaker 3 (06:46):
Right, we have a fashion brand, we have a podcast,
we have you know stuff.
Speaker 9 (06:50):
But the truth is we don't do a good job
with it.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
We don't have social media managers. Anything you see is
just us like all right, like let's put it out there,
but we don't.
Speaker 9 (07:00):
And of course Instagram for favorite daughter.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
No, I don't think we do a very good job
on actually like utilizing. I think we have ten people
watching on YouTube.
Speaker 9 (07:09):
Of our podcast.
Speaker 5 (07:09):
Like that's not a joke.
Speaker 10 (07:10):
Like I do this like really cool trick where I
post the same thing on Instagram and TikTok, so I
don't have to think.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
And apparently if you post it on LinkedIn, you're only
supposed to do it once a week.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
LinkedIn is not trying to see a bunch of posts.
Speaker 5 (07:24):
I've never had a real job. I don't know what
LinkedIn is.
Speaker 9 (07:27):
LinkedIn is such a mystreet to me?
Speaker 10 (07:30):
Oh no, I went from Lane Bryant to the TV.
Speaker 5 (07:32):
You guys can be batting.
Speaker 6 (07:33):
LinkedIn is actually thriving, though i'd actually descriving. It's not
like Facebook, like with where you're like, oh, who's on there,
my aunt?
Speaker 5 (07:40):
No, it's like LinkedIn.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
I'm building another business right now and I have single
handedly put all the pieces together through LinkedIn.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Where do you see your storytelling going? Someone says to you,
whatever you want to do, it's greenlit. You have all
the money in the world. What story would you tell
and how would you tell it?
Speaker 8 (07:57):
Well, mine definitely wouldn't be about myself.
Speaker 5 (08:00):
I think that that's one thing I'm like done with
is I feel like that's like out there already.
Speaker 8 (08:05):
And I do think that that's one thing that is
a little bit of a bummer of when you tend
to pop off as a like a an Instagram not Instagram,
a podcast situation or that type of deal is because
they're like, oh, we love you, we want more of you,
and it's kind of like you got me girl, like
i'd be I can't say another thing. You ask me
(08:27):
who I follow, and I'm like, what have I not
already said? You know, I would love to do something
that was very different from me, so and I plan to.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
I really want to tell.
Speaker 6 (08:38):
More relationship stories from different perspectives and kind of I
don't know if you guys feel this way, but I
think when one thing really takes off, it makes you
feel like you not in a way to chase something,
but that you want to prove to yourself you could
do it again, you know, on purpose instead it's not
a fluke. And so I have that for sure in
(08:58):
my head.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
But I feel like for us, like through our production company,
we've always been like what's our flea bag? You know,
like Aaron's like Phoebe waller Bridge, and we're kind of
like I think we've spent a lot of our lives
sort of resisting maybe who we are a lot and
trying fighting to be taken seriously, and you know, I
fought to be taken seriously as an actress for so
(09:19):
long it never really happened.
Speaker 5 (09:22):
And it could still. It could still happen.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
But we talk about this all the time, like we're
living in such hustle culture, right, It's like when is
enough enough? It's like you got to have the podcast,
you gotta have the brand. Oh you didn't sell any shows.
Speaker 5 (09:38):
That's bad, you know.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
It's just like it's like when when can you actually
sit back and go okay, like I want to I
want to enjoy the fruits of my labor.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Like it's all literally what.
Speaker 5 (09:47):
I was going to say, I was gonna say.
Speaker 6 (09:49):
It just made me think that something that people don't
talk about enough is that work life.
Speaker 5 (09:53):
Balance is really important to me.
Speaker 6 (09:55):
Yeah, and I only like to work with other people
who respect work life balance. And when you go home
and you're in bed with your partner by yourself watching TV,
I have a baby at home, and it's really shaken
up what I prioritize. And there's this culture of bragging
on how little sleep you got or responding to everything
in real time. And I've gotten more comfortable where if
(10:16):
I get a text at eight thirty at night, I
am not afraid to say guys, I'm watching Real Houswards
of Miami with my husband and that's our me time
and I'll get back to you at eight am tomorrow
and everything will be fine. And I don't want to
feel embarrassed by that. And I think the more you
do it and prioritize your life, the more it gives
other people permission to do that. And I just think
we need to spend time with our friends and family
(10:38):
and by ourselves and not be so obsessed with always
being on, because it's a recipe for a really unhealthy
mental state.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Nicole, what's your project? What's that dream project?
Speaker 10 (10:48):
My dream project obviously centered around myself. I love who
I am. I think I'm fun. My best friend is
to shar Zameida and we work together a lot. So
I think a dream would be show or like a
movie that we have written or created and we get to,
you know, be in charge of it.
Speaker 5 (11:06):
I like telling love stories. I also love interviewing people
about love.
Speaker 9 (11:10):
Jake.
Speaker 7 (11:11):
I think my dream would be to like write a
show similar to you about myself and see where that goes.
Meet like a definitely a comedy, dream coast star, dream coastar.
I would love to do like improv alongside like Meg's altar.
I think that would be awesome.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Time's up, Thank you guys.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
Next up, we'll hear from ziem's Jack Perry and John Stamos.
Stamos is a multi hyphenate who will, of course forever
be a pop culture icon for his long run on
ABC's nineteen ninety sitcom Full House. As such, Stamos was
the perfect pitch man to star in a cheeky Super
Bowl ad this year that was taken out by ZEEM
(11:54):
to tout its broad offering of local TV station streaming signals.
Stamos was impressed by the company and Perry's track record
as a broadcast and technology pioneer. Stamos now serves as
zem's Chief Innovation Officer. ZEEM right now is on a
big push to offer live streamed original content built around comedians, musicians,
(12:16):
and other types of performers. Here, Perry and Stamos talk
about how they became partners, and they talk about all
the promise that they see in this growing company.
Speaker 9 (12:26):
I met Jack and got introduced at ZEEM when they
had me do Super Bowl a couple of years ago.
I did a thing where I was saying we don't
need We don't need gimmicks. Zem works so well by itself.
And I'm sort of walking through and there's fire and
I'm in a pool, and like, I'm not trying to pander,
but I was really pandering. And then after I got
to know Jack on that shoot, I said, let's.
Speaker 5 (12:44):
Do something else.
Speaker 9 (12:45):
We did like an eight minute sort of a sort
of a Christopher guest style, a little ten minute thing
about the two of us in zee.
Speaker 5 (12:52):
A little mockumentary.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
Actually, that's right, Jack, it's at the table for us
about what zeem is and the two major polls of
your business.
Speaker 11 (13:00):
Sure. So I started Zeem in two thousand and nine
after I had sold my prior company, which wrote the
authentication technology that sits between the satellite companies and the
networks and all the local affiliates and really just make
sure you get the right local channels. And so I
thought looked at that and thought, well, streaming is next.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Yeah, in two thousand and nine, not many of us
were saying streaming is next. We were just trying to
figure out how to work YouTube well.
Speaker 11 (13:26):
And I learned the value of local there. And that's
where John and I really bonded in the beginning is
everybody is somewhere, they're from somewhere, they're going somewhere. There's
things happening somewhere. So local news just made sense to
lean in on that, and so we wrote the backbone
(13:46):
to start streaming. We literally had no idea what the
business model was going to be. But after about a
year we had four hundred local TV stations on our
backbone and they were just streaming to themselves because there
was no business figured out yet. And so when you're
watching local on Paramount Plus, and we power lots on
(14:09):
Hulu and Fubo and lots of platforms, it's our backbone
that goes into those local TV stations, pulls the broadcasts
out and make sure you can stream them.
Speaker 5 (14:20):
That sounds simple, but it is not.
Speaker 8 (14:22):
No, it's not.
Speaker 9 (14:22):
And you know, I when they asked me to the commercial,
I was like, what is this, zeam. I don't get it,
you know, And it took me a while to sort
of understand it. Just talking like that. It's sort of
broad right now. We have an app on the phone
and he has we broadcast local news and sports from
all over the country. So if you want to see
what's going on, in you know, your hometown, whatever, you
go there, and then we're doing some you know, original programming.
But we've really been kicking to the live situation.
Speaker 11 (14:45):
You know, local is the one constant no matter what
business models rise up, you're always going to need local news, weather, sports.
So on that side, we're just going to make a
brain dead simple to get all your local channels. And
I don't care if it's the CTV companies or the streamers.
You want local come to us, We'll make it inexpensive
and easy from there, that's where we're starting to build
(15:09):
on the local original content side of things. We're pushing
the envelope. We've done things as crazy as a ice
fishing shanty in the middle of a national forest in
the Upper Peninsula Michigan and live streaming. You know, two
people sitting in a shanty ice fishing and we had
people tuning in watching it.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
You think nothing's on folks ice fishing right there? Is
that something you kind of did to see if you
could do it?
Speaker 2 (15:35):
In part?
Speaker 11 (15:36):
Yes, But we also you know, as John and I
started more about the content opportunity, it was clear to
us live is the next great frontier and the more
we can do live the better, and so we've got destination.
John is leading on Destination Music.
Speaker 9 (15:53):
We have a studio in New York as well, on
close to Times Square that we go in there on
tour with the Beach Boys couple months ago, and I
grabbed a few of the guys. I said, that's going
to the studio. We flipped the switch and then we
went on for an hour and just played acoustically, and
you know, it was really a special thing. So there's
so much going on with ZEEM.
Speaker 5 (16:11):
It is complicated.
Speaker 9 (16:12):
It's hard to wrap your head around. But I think
there's so much opportunity there, especially as a creator and
have a lot of creative friends over signing deals with people.
There's a young comic that who I love, and we're
going to do a live talk show with him and
a late night talk show. We're doing Destination comedy. He's
got a van to a three sixty van that goes live.
We're doing music, and we're doing comedy and fishing in
(16:36):
a hole somewhere.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Can you sketch out those specifically, what you did with
the Destination Comedy event, Explain why you did it and
what you hoped it would represent for your capabilities.
Speaker 11 (16:46):
So I wanted to push the envelope on the technology.
I wanted to get creative folks involved that had a
network of their own that could then tell their friends
to tune in and their contacts tune in. And I
wanted to try to live stream for five straight days
twenty four to seven. And I said, when you go
(17:07):
to bed at night, park the van so it can
see a logo of any kind. I don't care what
it is. It could be a Marriott.
Speaker 9 (17:14):
Logo, it'd be Adidas for YouTube.
Speaker 11 (17:16):
The next time we'll have it pointed out Adidas shoes.
Because if you look at well, you know we have
an ad technology that you know, since John came out
of the Flaming Pool and our Super Bowl commercial, we've
done maybe seven billion ads that we've inserted into streams.
We know that the advertising community is saying, hey, there's
got to be something more, not just dynamic ad insertion,
(17:38):
but what are the live branding opportunities we can participate in.
So yes, when we unleashed the technology on a couple
of comedians, we've said, go out there and do everything
that you possibly can do so we can then go
on the next generation of this programming and bring in
advertisers ahead of time that are not necessarily looking for
(17:58):
dynamic ad insertion, but to be a part of the
Destination comedy family.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Is there a world John where a touring comedian could
monetize a.
Speaker 9 (18:08):
Tour that, yes, that's a good question. What I always
chipped these guys with and girls is that he invented
the technology called ads Sync that places ads throughout the
day and all these local markets, so if a comic
or a musician is going to be playing. We did
it with the Beach Boys just to test out with
a QR code, and we sold a lot of tickets
at Jones Beach I think it was. But he went
(18:28):
and got ten seconds here, fifteen seconds here that were
not being used so for free. So that's what we
would do with the comics of the touring musicians as well.
That makes sense.
Speaker 11 (18:38):
So one of the things we did with Jeff Ross
was we created one thirty second spot because he's done
the take a Banana for the Ride tour on Broadway
and so we took it. We said, just shoot a
fun ad, send it to us. And I'm sure everyone
here is familiar with the dreaded slate We'll be back
in a moment, you know, enjoy this moment or whatever.
(19:01):
That's because the ad wasn't sold, and so what we
did in the case there was our ad Sync technology
would then condense the ads. So because at the end
when you see that slate, it's because there isn't an
ad that fits.
Speaker 5 (19:14):
That feels like failure, honestly.
Speaker 11 (19:16):
Right, So we wrote something that very quickly said all right,
grab the Jeff Ross ad. Take it from a thirty
to or fifteen or fifteen down to six seconds, and
then we placed it in there as well, and that
actually proved very effective at increasing the fill rates for
those ads, and you wouldn't see the slates.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
With your more original efforts. Are you actively trying to
promote the Zeen brand or are you looking at like
social as the kind of the vehicle to get your
content out.
Speaker 11 (19:47):
I mean, that's a nice inflection point that we're at today,
is you kind of get the social piece for free.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
Right, What do you think that a service like this
can do in terms of just putting a spotlight on
talent that may be very far away from New York
or LA or Chicago comedy clubs or or any kind
of performers. Do you feel like this could be a
vehicle for discovery of talent?
Speaker 9 (20:09):
Yeah? Absolutely, I've been finding so many talented people on Instagram.
In fact, we replaced one of the drummers in The
Beach Boys a couple of years ago. I found the
guy on Instagram. And you know, I have no problem
at dming someone saying I'm a fan. I really like
what you're doing, and I have.
Speaker 5 (20:26):
To believe people are like, this is not Jon. Times
they alway.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
Takes a minute to convince them, no, I really am
John's Damen. Yeah.
Speaker 9 (20:33):
That was with the Beach Boy guy. I DM him
and said, hey, what are you doing this summer? You know?
And he says, is this really you? And I filled
my face time I said, we're looking for a drummer
for the Beach Boys. Oh, you know, we're crazy. So
I find more probably online than I do out in
the world. But the talent is so incredible, and to
reach out to someone and go, hey, you want to
come over here and play in our sandbox and see
(20:53):
what you got going over here. I've had so many
mentors in my life, to start with the Jack Klugman
and Gary Marshall and Don Rickles, and so I find
myself being put in that position and sort of a
pay it forward position really, and I'm just loving it.
And now I have an avenue to go come over
here and do this with us and come up with idea.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
And it seems like all your skills and your connections
are coming into play in terms of being creative.
Speaker 9 (21:15):
Well one hundred percent. Yeah, we've met with a lot
of the creative friends and also people in the business.
Went over to Netflix and talk to them about what
we're doing live and if we could be part of
what they're doing. And we've met with a lot of
agents and a lot of management companies, and everybody's very interesting.
It's just they got it to figure out how can
I fit into this world? And the more we get
out there and pitch it, the more people are coming
(21:35):
around going what about this?
Speaker 2 (21:36):
What about that?
Speaker 1 (21:38):
Well, the architecture of monetization, I'm sure helps helps with
those conversations.
Speaker 5 (21:43):
Let's close by a little crystal.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Ball gazing, all right, John, chief Innovation Officer, pressures on
what's exciting you? What in the future is like, what
in the near future are you excited to get your
arms around and start playing with.
Speaker 9 (21:58):
One of the first things I said to him was like,
I would love to see ZEEM as your home channel
you turn on the TV instead of LG or whatever.
You know, Apple, it will be it will be Zee
and it would it would. I want something that would
curate what I watch, what my wife watches, what I
watch with our kids, and not have to pit there
for twenty minutes on every platform and try to figure
out how you do it and like a half hours
gone by, and the hell, I'll just go to.
Speaker 5 (22:19):
Sleep, wind up watching Full House three runs. I do
that a lot.
Speaker 9 (22:22):
But it would would just to have a link and
it would just go hit the show, go to Netflix,
go to Apple. And I don't think anybody's doing that.
So that's my dream is to see it be your
home screen and your place where you start in the
morning and a place where you end it night.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
There is still an enormous opportunity in navigation.
Speaker 5 (22:38):
I will will watch ZEM to see how how you
guys tackle That sounds good.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
Thanks for listening. Be sure to leave us a review
at the podcast platform of your choice.
Speaker 5 (22:47):
We love to hear from listeners.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
Please go to Variety dot com and sign up for
the free weekly Strictly Business newsletter, and don't forget to
tune in next week for another episode of Strictly Business
s
Welcome to Strictly Business, Variety's weekly podcast featuring conversations with
industry leaders about the business of media and entertainment. I'm
your host, Cynthia Littleton, co editor in chief of Variety.
Today's episode features highlights from two lively and informative panels
that Variety hosted on September twenty fifth at our annual
Entertainment and Technology conference in Los Angeles. The day was
(00:22):
packed with great speakers who got right to the point
of the day, the intersection of Hollywood and Silicon Valley.
Last week's Strictly Business episode featured the opening panel of
the Entertainment and Technology event, a session I moderated with
the group of heavyweight TV and streaming executives. This week's
(00:42):
installment opens with highlights from the final session of the day.
My great colleague Mark Malkin, Vrighty's senior editor of Culture
and Events, moderated in session with the fabulous representative sample
of successful digital media entrepreneurs slash Personalities. Then after that
we'll hear a slice of my conversation with streaming pioneer
(01:04):
Jack Perry, CEO of ZEM and the inimitable John Stamos.
The two spoke with me about their partnership on the
zine's streaming platform, which is in the middle of a
very ambitious buildout. Mark's conversation with the six Digital multi
hyphenates ranges widely, and it can be hard to keep
(01:25):
track of who's who unless you happen to be a
super fan of all of them. But it's really more
about listening to the points they make on how younger
and older millennials view their opportunities in the entertainment arena
these days. Mark also gets them to talk about their
own entertainment and social media habits and preferences. Regular listeners
of Strictly Business know that I love nothing more than
(01:47):
talking to everyday people at conferences and fan conventions about
what they watch, how they watch, when they watch at all.
It's fascinating, So enjoy the ride here as Mark converses
with Nicole Byer, host of Why Don't You Date Me?
Aaron and Sarah Foster, executive producers of Nobody Wants This,
and hosts of the world's first podcast, Matt Rogers, host
(02:11):
of Las Culturistas, Jake Shane, host of therapust and Benito Skinner, creator, writer,
executive producer and star of Overcompensating and host of Ride.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Here's the panel, so let's do a little introduction. Nicole
Bayer host Why Don't You Date Me?
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Who?
Speaker 4 (02:30):
This is their podcast?
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Aaron Foster, Sarah Foster, EP Nobody Wants This and host
of the World's First podcast, Thanks Sarah.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Thanks.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Aaron Fosser, creator, writer and EP of Nobody Wants This
and host the World's First Put Put Jake Shane, host
of Therapists, Benito Skinner, creator writer, EP actor Compensating and
(03:04):
host Ride. And Matt Rogers He Does Like Everything Also,
and hosts of Last Say Them All.
Speaker 4 (03:15):
Chapter, Makeup Artists, costume designer, influencer or host Lost Carter Recess.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Hi, everybody. I want to start off with just asking
about the platforms, the apps that you guys are scrolling
the most. I want to know where are you looking
for stories? What are you enjoying the most?
Speaker 5 (03:39):
I love Instagram. I love it so much. Give me pictures,
give me videos. I'm happy.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
What about you, Sarah?
Speaker 5 (03:48):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (03:48):
Yeah, I mean I think Instagram obviously is the place
that I am the most. It moves the needle the most.
I think for our businesses. It's football season, so I'm
on YouTube a lot.
Speaker 5 (03:58):
No, you go on Twitter a lot too.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Yeah, but I don't know the algorithm is.
Speaker 6 (04:05):
I'm so curious to see what the I mean, Nicole,
you're much younger than us two, but we're like the
young people think of us saying Instagram because I do
think it makes us seem old, because Instagram is like millennials,
and it is the only platform I look at. And
then when I'm feeling like really disgusting and dirty, I'll
go on the Daily Mail just to like feel really
bad about myself. And now they've changed it up where
(04:26):
like most of the interesting things are like exclusives you
have to pay, and I'm like, I'm obviously not going
to pay for that. But on a dark day, like
you never know, I.
Speaker 7 (04:35):
Also read the Daily Mail, but only on like the
Snapchat daily mail app.
Speaker 5 (04:40):
Yeah, honestly, I think darker.
Speaker 7 (04:43):
It's awesome.
Speaker 5 (04:44):
I guarantee you Aaron does not have a same.
Speaker 7 (04:46):
No, they pick out the they pick out the best stories.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
You.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
He just read you so much.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
I don't even have Snapchat.
Speaker 7 (04:54):
It's amazing, and I read the ones I'm most interested in,
but I use TikTok the most probably or sometimes Twitter.
I just think it's interesting. I like all the charte
accounts that talk about different pop girls. Yeah, so same.
Speaker 5 (05:09):
I feel like Instagram was my first love.
Speaker 7 (05:12):
I love it so much so that and then I'm
on TikTok a lot, I would say.
Speaker 8 (05:17):
And then I don't even go near Twitter because I
can't hate myself more. Yeah, deeply Instagram, I'm the same.
And also I'm gonna give like a millennial answer too.
I guess an aging millennial answer here, like the end
Dell Sleep app is everything, like all sorts of soundscapes.
Speaker 5 (05:32):
And I'm a YouTube person too. I will just refresh
the YouTube.
Speaker 8 (05:35):
I think I'm part of the problem, like not watching
TV because I will just refresh YouTube and that's the day.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Well, yeah, do any of you watch TV? Yeah?
Speaker 8 (05:47):
I watched over compensating Sason, one of them run, I
did it. I saw on Instagram the new trailer where
nobody wants this today?
Speaker 5 (05:54):
I'm better.
Speaker 9 (05:55):
Hello.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Obviously all of you are on multiple platforms. How do
you decide what goes to what platform?
Speaker 5 (06:04):
Length of the clip.
Speaker 6 (06:07):
Well, I was just wondering how many platforms there are,
like where does it go? Because I don't really know.
Speaker 8 (06:12):
I couldn't think of anything besides Instagram for the app question.
Speaker 5 (06:15):
So I don't know, I like.
Speaker 9 (06:17):
Don't utilize or sorry you go you first.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
I would way rather hear from you about platforms because
I really.
Speaker 7 (06:22):
Am for Instagram, it usually is just photos. I don't
really sometimes all do videos, but most I really just
kind of do the distinction. Well, if it's a photo,
I'll do Instagram. If it's a video, I'll do TikTok.
And that's really just as simple as it is for me.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
It's a really scientific method.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
I feel like we have this conversation all the time
is how best to utilize social.
Speaker 5 (06:45):
Media to our advantage?
Speaker 3 (06:46):
Right, we have a fashion brand, we have a podcast,
we have you know stuff.
Speaker 9 (06:50):
But the truth is we don't do a good job
with it.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
We don't have social media managers. Anything you see is
just us like all right, like let's put it out there,
but we don't.
Speaker 9 (07:00):
And of course Instagram for favorite daughter.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
No, I don't think we do a very good job
on actually like utilizing. I think we have ten people
watching on YouTube.
Speaker 9 (07:09):
Of our podcast.
Speaker 5 (07:09):
Like that's not a joke.
Speaker 10 (07:10):
Like I do this like really cool trick where I
post the same thing on Instagram and TikTok, so I
don't have to think.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
And apparently if you post it on LinkedIn, you're only
supposed to do it once a week.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
LinkedIn is not trying to see a bunch of posts.
Speaker 5 (07:24):
I've never had a real job. I don't know what
LinkedIn is.
Speaker 9 (07:27):
LinkedIn is such a mystreet to me?
Speaker 10 (07:30):
Oh no, I went from Lane Bryant to the TV.
Speaker 5 (07:32):
You guys can be batting.
Speaker 6 (07:33):
LinkedIn is actually thriving, though i'd actually descriving. It's not
like Facebook, like with where you're like, oh, who's on there,
my aunt?
Speaker 5 (07:40):
No, it's like LinkedIn.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
I'm building another business right now and I have single
handedly put all the pieces together through LinkedIn.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Where do you see your storytelling going? Someone says to you,
whatever you want to do, it's greenlit. You have all
the money in the world. What story would you tell
and how would you tell it?
Speaker 8 (07:57):
Well, mine definitely wouldn't be about myself.
Speaker 5 (08:00):
I think that that's one thing I'm like done with
is I feel like that's like out there already.
Speaker 8 (08:05):
And I do think that that's one thing that is
a little bit of a bummer of when you tend
to pop off as a like a an Instagram not Instagram,
a podcast situation or that type of deal is because
they're like, oh, we love you, we want more of you,
and it's kind of like you got me girl, like
i'd be I can't say another thing. You ask me
(08:27):
who I follow, and I'm like, what have I not
already said? You know, I would love to do something
that was very different from me, so and I plan to.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
I really want to tell.
Speaker 6 (08:38):
More relationship stories from different perspectives and kind of I
don't know if you guys feel this way, but I
think when one thing really takes off, it makes you
feel like you not in a way to chase something,
but that you want to prove to yourself you could
do it again, you know, on purpose instead it's not
a fluke. And so I have that for sure in
(08:58):
my head.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
But I feel like for us, like through our production company,
we've always been like what's our flea bag? You know,
like Aaron's like Phoebe waller Bridge, and we're kind of
like I think we've spent a lot of our lives
sort of resisting maybe who we are a lot and
trying fighting to be taken seriously, and you know, I
fought to be taken seriously as an actress for so
(09:19):
long it never really happened.
Speaker 5 (09:22):
And it could still. It could still happen.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
But we talk about this all the time, like we're
living in such hustle culture, right, It's like when is
enough enough? It's like you got to have the podcast,
you gotta have the brand. Oh you didn't sell any shows.
Speaker 5 (09:38):
That's bad, you know.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
It's just like it's like when when can you actually
sit back and go okay, like I want to I
want to enjoy the fruits of my labor.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Like it's all literally what.
Speaker 5 (09:47):
I was going to say, I was gonna say.
Speaker 6 (09:49):
It just made me think that something that people don't
talk about enough is that work life.
Speaker 5 (09:53):
Balance is really important to me.
Speaker 6 (09:55):
Yeah, and I only like to work with other people
who respect work life balance. And when you go home
and you're in bed with your partner by yourself watching TV,
I have a baby at home, and it's really shaken
up what I prioritize. And there's this culture of bragging
on how little sleep you got or responding to everything
in real time. And I've gotten more comfortable where if
(10:16):
I get a text at eight thirty at night, I
am not afraid to say guys, I'm watching Real Houswards
of Miami with my husband and that's our me time
and I'll get back to you at eight am tomorrow
and everything will be fine. And I don't want to
feel embarrassed by that. And I think the more you
do it and prioritize your life, the more it gives
other people permission to do that. And I just think
we need to spend time with our friends and family
(10:38):
and by ourselves and not be so obsessed with always
being on, because it's a recipe for a really unhealthy
mental state.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Nicole, what's your project? What's that dream project?
Speaker 10 (10:48):
My dream project obviously centered around myself. I love who
I am. I think I'm fun. My best friend is
to shar Zameida and we work together a lot. So
I think a dream would be show or like a
movie that we have written or created and we get to,
you know, be in charge of it.
Speaker 5 (11:06):
I like telling love stories. I also love interviewing people
about love.
Speaker 9 (11:10):
Jake.
Speaker 7 (11:11):
I think my dream would be to like write a
show similar to you about myself and see where that goes.
Meet like a definitely a comedy, dream coast star, dream coastar.
I would love to do like improv alongside like Meg's altar.
I think that would be awesome.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Time's up, Thank you guys.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
Next up, we'll hear from ziem's Jack Perry and John Stamos.
Stamos is a multi hyphenate who will, of course forever
be a pop culture icon for his long run on
ABC's nineteen ninety sitcom Full House. As such, Stamos was
the perfect pitch man to star in a cheeky Super
Bowl ad this year that was taken out by ZEEM
(11:54):
to tout its broad offering of local TV station streaming signals.
Stamos was impressed by the company and Perry's track record
as a broadcast and technology pioneer. Stamos now serves as
zem's Chief Innovation Officer. ZEEM right now is on a
big push to offer live streamed original content built around comedians, musicians,
(12:16):
and other types of performers. Here, Perry and Stamos talk
about how they became partners, and they talk about all
the promise that they see in this growing company.
Speaker 9 (12:26):
I met Jack and got introduced at ZEEM when they
had me do Super Bowl a couple of years ago.
I did a thing where I was saying we don't
need We don't need gimmicks. Zem works so well by itself.
And I'm sort of walking through and there's fire and
I'm in a pool, and like, I'm not trying to pander,
but I was really pandering. And then after I got
to know Jack on that shoot, I said, let's.
Speaker 5 (12:44):
Do something else.
Speaker 9 (12:45):
We did like an eight minute sort of a sort
of a Christopher guest style, a little ten minute thing
about the two of us in zee.
Speaker 5 (12:52):
A little mockumentary.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
Actually, that's right, Jack, it's at the table for us
about what zeem is and the two major polls of
your business.
Speaker 11 (13:00):
Sure. So I started Zeem in two thousand and nine
after I had sold my prior company, which wrote the
authentication technology that sits between the satellite companies and the
networks and all the local affiliates and really just make
sure you get the right local channels. And so I
thought looked at that and thought, well, streaming is next.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Yeah, in two thousand and nine, not many of us
were saying streaming is next. We were just trying to
figure out how to work YouTube well.
Speaker 11 (13:26):
And I learned the value of local there. And that's
where John and I really bonded in the beginning is
everybody is somewhere, they're from somewhere, they're going somewhere. There's
things happening somewhere. So local news just made sense to
lean in on that, and so we wrote the backbone
(13:46):
to start streaming. We literally had no idea what the
business model was going to be. But after about a
year we had four hundred local TV stations on our
backbone and they were just streaming to themselves because there
was no business figured out yet. And so when you're
watching local on Paramount Plus, and we power lots on
(14:09):
Hulu and Fubo and lots of platforms, it's our backbone
that goes into those local TV stations, pulls the broadcasts
out and make sure you can stream them.
Speaker 5 (14:20):
That sounds simple, but it is not.
Speaker 8 (14:22):
No, it's not.
Speaker 9 (14:22):
And you know, I when they asked me to the commercial,
I was like, what is this, zeam. I don't get it,
you know, And it took me a while to sort
of understand it. Just talking like that. It's sort of
broad right now. We have an app on the phone
and he has we broadcast local news and sports from
all over the country. So if you want to see
what's going on, in you know, your hometown, whatever, you
go there, and then we're doing some you know, original programming.
But we've really been kicking to the live situation.
Speaker 11 (14:45):
You know, local is the one constant no matter what
business models rise up, you're always going to need local news, weather, sports.
So on that side, we're just going to make a
brain dead simple to get all your local channels. And
I don't care if it's the CTV companies or the streamers.
You want local come to us, We'll make it inexpensive
and easy from there, that's where we're starting to build
(15:09):
on the local original content side of things. We're pushing
the envelope. We've done things as crazy as a ice
fishing shanty in the middle of a national forest in
the Upper Peninsula Michigan and live streaming. You know, two
people sitting in a shanty ice fishing and we had
people tuning in watching it.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
You think nothing's on folks ice fishing right there? Is
that something you kind of did to see if you
could do it?
Speaker 2 (15:35):
In part?
Speaker 11 (15:36):
Yes, But we also you know, as John and I
started more about the content opportunity, it was clear to
us live is the next great frontier and the more
we can do live the better, and so we've got destination.
John is leading on Destination Music.
Speaker 9 (15:53):
We have a studio in New York as well, on
close to Times Square that we go in there on
tour with the Beach Boys couple months ago, and I
grabbed a few of the guys. I said, that's going
to the studio. We flipped the switch and then we
went on for an hour and just played acoustically, and
you know, it was really a special thing. So there's
so much going on with ZEEM.
Speaker 5 (16:11):
It is complicated.
Speaker 9 (16:12):
It's hard to wrap your head around. But I think
there's so much opportunity there, especially as a creator and
have a lot of creative friends over signing deals with people.
There's a young comic that who I love, and we're
going to do a live talk show with him and
a late night talk show. We're doing Destination comedy. He's
got a van to a three sixty van that goes live.
We're doing music, and we're doing comedy and fishing in
(16:36):
a hole somewhere.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Can you sketch out those specifically, what you did with
the Destination Comedy event, Explain why you did it and
what you hoped it would represent for your capabilities.
Speaker 11 (16:46):
So I wanted to push the envelope on the technology.
I wanted to get creative folks involved that had a
network of their own that could then tell their friends
to tune in and their contacts tune in. And I
wanted to try to live stream for five straight days
twenty four to seven. And I said, when you go
(17:07):
to bed at night, park the van so it can
see a logo of any kind. I don't care what
it is. It could be a Marriott.
Speaker 9 (17:14):
Logo, it'd be Adidas for YouTube.
Speaker 11 (17:16):
The next time we'll have it pointed out Adidas shoes.
Because if you look at well, you know we have
an ad technology that you know, since John came out
of the Flaming Pool and our Super Bowl commercial, we've
done maybe seven billion ads that we've inserted into streams.
We know that the advertising community is saying, hey, there's
got to be something more, not just dynamic ad insertion,
(17:38):
but what are the live branding opportunities we can participate in.
So yes, when we unleashed the technology on a couple
of comedians, we've said, go out there and do everything
that you possibly can do so we can then go
on the next generation of this programming and bring in
advertisers ahead of time that are not necessarily looking for
(17:58):
dynamic ad insertion, but to be a part of the
Destination comedy family.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Is there a world John where a touring comedian could
monetize a.
Speaker 9 (18:08):
Tour that, yes, that's a good question. What I always
chipped these guys with and girls is that he invented
the technology called ads Sync that places ads throughout the
day and all these local markets, so if a comic
or a musician is going to be playing. We did
it with the Beach Boys just to test out with
a QR code, and we sold a lot of tickets
at Jones Beach I think it was. But he went
(18:28):
and got ten seconds here, fifteen seconds here that were
not being used so for free. So that's what we
would do with the comics of the touring musicians as well.
That makes sense.
Speaker 11 (18:38):
So one of the things we did with Jeff Ross
was we created one thirty second spot because he's done
the take a Banana for the Ride tour on Broadway
and so we took it. We said, just shoot a
fun ad, send it to us. And I'm sure everyone
here is familiar with the dreaded slate We'll be back
in a moment, you know, enjoy this moment or whatever.
(19:01):
That's because the ad wasn't sold, and so what we
did in the case there was our ad Sync technology
would then condense the ads. So because at the end
when you see that slate, it's because there isn't an
ad that fits.
Speaker 5 (19:14):
That feels like failure, honestly.
Speaker 11 (19:16):
Right, So we wrote something that very quickly said all right,
grab the Jeff Ross ad. Take it from a thirty
to or fifteen or fifteen down to six seconds, and
then we placed it in there as well, and that
actually proved very effective at increasing the fill rates for
those ads, and you wouldn't see the slates.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
With your more original efforts. Are you actively trying to
promote the Zeen brand or are you looking at like
social as the kind of the vehicle to get your
content out.
Speaker 11 (19:47):
I mean, that's a nice inflection point that we're at today,
is you kind of get the social piece for free.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
Right, What do you think that a service like this
can do in terms of just putting a spotlight on
talent that may be very far away from New York
or LA or Chicago comedy clubs or or any kind
of performers. Do you feel like this could be a
vehicle for discovery of talent?
Speaker 9 (20:09):
Yeah? Absolutely, I've been finding so many talented people on Instagram.
In fact, we replaced one of the drummers in The
Beach Boys a couple of years ago. I found the
guy on Instagram. And you know, I have no problem
at dming someone saying I'm a fan. I really like
what you're doing, and I have.
Speaker 5 (20:26):
To believe people are like, this is not Jon. Times
they alway.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
Takes a minute to convince them, no, I really am
John's Damen. Yeah.
Speaker 9 (20:33):
That was with the Beach Boy guy. I DM him
and said, hey, what are you doing this summer? You know?
And he says, is this really you? And I filled
my face time I said, we're looking for a drummer
for the Beach Boys. Oh, you know, we're crazy. So
I find more probably online than I do out in
the world. But the talent is so incredible, and to
reach out to someone and go, hey, you want to
come over here and play in our sandbox and see
(20:53):
what you got going over here. I've had so many
mentors in my life, to start with the Jack Klugman
and Gary Marshall and Don Rickles, and so I find
myself being put in that position and sort of a
pay it forward position really, and I'm just loving it.
And now I have an avenue to go come over
here and do this with us and come up with idea.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
And it seems like all your skills and your connections
are coming into play in terms of being creative.
Speaker 9 (21:15):
Well one hundred percent. Yeah, we've met with a lot
of the creative friends and also people in the business.
Went over to Netflix and talk to them about what
we're doing live and if we could be part of
what they're doing. And we've met with a lot of
agents and a lot of management companies, and everybody's very interesting.
It's just they got it to figure out how can
I fit into this world? And the more we get
out there and pitch it, the more people are coming
(21:35):
around going what about this?
Speaker 2 (21:36):
What about that?
Speaker 1 (21:38):
Well, the architecture of monetization, I'm sure helps helps with
those conversations.
Speaker 5 (21:43):
Let's close by a little crystal.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Ball gazing, all right, John, chief Innovation Officer, pressures on
what's exciting you? What in the future is like, what
in the near future are you excited to get your
arms around and start playing with.
Speaker 9 (21:58):
One of the first things I said to him was like,
I would love to see ZEEM as your home channel
you turn on the TV instead of LG or whatever.
You know, Apple, it will be it will be Zee
and it would it would. I want something that would
curate what I watch, what my wife watches, what I
watch with our kids, and not have to pit there
for twenty minutes on every platform and try to figure
out how you do it and like a half hours
gone by, and the hell, I'll just go to.
Speaker 5 (22:19):
Sleep, wind up watching Full House three runs. I do
that a lot.
Speaker 9 (22:22):
But it would would just to have a link and
it would just go hit the show, go to Netflix,
go to Apple. And I don't think anybody's doing that.
So that's my dream is to see it be your
home screen and your place where you start in the
morning and a place where you end it night.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
There is still an enormous opportunity in navigation.
Speaker 5 (22:38):
I will will watch ZEM to see how how you
guys tackle That sounds good.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
Thanks for listening. Be sure to leave us a review
at the podcast platform of your choice.
Speaker 5 (22:47):
We love to hear from listeners.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
Please go to Variety dot com and sign up for
the free weekly Strictly Business newsletter, and don't forget to
tune in next week for another episode of Strictly Business
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