March 5, 2025 • 29 mins
Taylor K. Shaw, newly hired as senior outreach lead for film at Kickstarter, details why the crowdsourcing site feels the time is right to court established filmmakers, producers and writers. The fundraising service can help pay for projects and it can be an engine for engaging with and cultivating dedicated fans.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
Welcome to Strictly Business Varieties, weekly podcast featuring conversations with
industry leaders about the business of media and entertainment. I'm
Cynthia Lyttleton, co editor in chief of Variety. Today. My
guest is Taylor K. Shaw. Shaw is the newly hired
senior Outreach Lead for Film at Kickstarter. She's also an
(00:30):
independent producer and an entrepreneur who leads BWA Studios. Shaw's
hire is a sign that Kickstarter wants to elevate the
activity that is generated on the platform by professional filmmakers.
Kickstarter is not only a place to generate money for projects,
it can also be an engine of engaging with fans
(00:51):
and keeping them connected to projects and franchises. Shaw is
in the midst of a festival tour to talk to
industry insiders about how Kickstarter can bring them production funding
and more. But don't call it a donation. Shaw explains
why in the conversation that is coming right up after
this break and we're back with my conversation with Taylor
(01:24):
Ka Shaw, Senior Outreach Lead for Film for Kickstarter. Taylor
Ka Shaw, newly appointed head of Film for Kickstarter. Thank
you so much for joining me on this slightly rainy
day in New York.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Thank you for having me and very very much so
looking forward to our conversation.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Tell me about what's your mandate coming in and what
was it about this job that attracted you to coming
to Kickstarter.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
The mandate coming in is to bring awareness two filmmakers
who are established, who have that built in audience, to
bring awareness that Kickstarter has a long standing legacy of
supporting prolific talent and really helping them fund and launch
(02:13):
their careers, like the likes of Anisa Ray or Phoebe Wallerbridge.
And so it really brought me here is the alignment
between my passion for building strong infrastructure for artists to
thrive and really seeing the need in this moment for
all artists, all filmmakers, whether you're emerging or established, the
(02:36):
need to be creatively independent.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
You go right to the heart of it is that
there is a sense that Kickstarter is for the person
that has been writing a script in their basement and
making super eight films and now has a great idea
and really wants to get out there, not for an
established showrunner an established screenwriter. But you're just telling me
(02:59):
that that is wrong.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Yes, the most recent example is with The Apprentice you know,
which now has two Oscar nominations, and they had a
lot of success at con they and Tell You Ride,
and they still had a lot of difficulty with getting
distribution for the film, and so they turned to Kickstarter
(03:24):
to really prove that the audience, the community, folks want
to see this film and it means something to folks.
And they did prove that, raising one hundred thousand and
just twelve hours and then overall four hundred thousand for
the marketing of the film.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Let me let's take let's use that as an example,
because obviously that was a very controversial film some both
financial considerations and unavoidably political conversations. Variety covered a lot
about The Apprentice, so we're very definitely, very well aware.
So when the first of all, how do you know,
and this might have predated your joining Kickstarter, but did
(04:04):
somebody at Kickstarter reach out to people involved with the
film and say, hey, we might be able to help
or did they was that organic? Did they immediately go
to Kickstarter when they realized they were going to need
some help in bringing in some money pretty quickly.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
So they came to Kickstarter, which I think is really
special because that only happens if you are aware of
the power of the platform and what is possible when
you allow for your community to participate and uplift your work.
So they took advantage of an opportunity to utilize our platform,
(04:40):
and that's one that every if you just look a
little bit more into our history, and I hope to
share that more here with you today. But if you
look into it, you can make a campaign and really
reach out to those who care about your work, and
it can sing, and so they take it upon themselves
to take their power back and start a grassroots movement.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Let me ask you the question that I've always had
with around crowdsourcing and these types of platforms. If the
people that are contributing to these funds, if the people
are doing it in fact to get a return on investment,
how do you track that, especially over the life cycle
of something like a film.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
What is fabulous about Kickstarter is that our backers, the
backer community, they're not looking for a return on investment.
They are really looking to be a part of films,
creative projects that mean something to them. A great example
was with hair Love. You know that Oscar winning short
(05:43):
that went on to be a mac series for hair Love.
When that wind happened on you know, social media, everyone
who backed the Kickstarter campaign was like, I was a
part of this film, like you know, we want an oscar.
And so that is what the backer community at Kickstarter
(06:04):
is looking for. There is actually no equity exchange. What
they receive is rewards. Those rewards are ways for them
to be calm or receive something that allows for them
to be more deeply engaged in in the process, in
life cycle of the other projects.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
It is. It is interesting and it's an it's an
interesting evolution in fandom that this kind of access and
this kind of opportunity to be part of something. Thinking
like a lawyer, like, are there are there any unexpected
downsides that the company has had to deal with? Are
there people that come back and then claim some kind
(06:48):
of authorship because they you know, I guess I'm asking
the Devil's advocate question in terms of in terms of
any kind of like rights or authorship or just claims
after the fact.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
You know, from the very beginning to backers and two artists,
the real draw for artists is knowing that their IP
is their IP and we allow for full creative control
when that is not the norm. Creative ownership is not
the you know norm in the traditional funding, the traditional
(07:24):
studio model, definitely not. Yes, So our backers know that
from the beginning of supporting a project, and that's very
clearly laid out for everyone. The true I you know,
with the filmmakers I speak to, I really when they
express this sentiment that's concerned about, you know, how exactly
does this work. I've only you know, hit the pavement
(07:48):
the streets of LA trying to make it in the
traditional way. What I say is everyone is not an artist.
Everyone is not a filmmaker. So everyone doesn't have that
unique ability to tell a story that resonates and that
really helps us see each other as human beings. Everyone
doesn't have that skill, and so you are offering to
(08:13):
people the opportunity to participate and to say that I
have furthered this creative project that deeply means something to me,
that I see the power and potential of this particular
artist as well. So the exchange that's there is you know,
of course, the rewards piece, but it's really this opportunity
(08:35):
to be a part of something greater for the backer
and for the filmmaker the opportunities to continue to build
time and time again with that dedicated global community that
we have a Kickstarter.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
It's incredible that the amount of boundaries, the boundaries that
can sort of be erased by this ability. Let me
ask you, how is it.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
How is this money.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Treated on a tax basis for a filmmaker? Is it
considered a donation?
Speaker 2 (09:05):
So folks do have to pay their taxes and so
you know through the platform, when you know, once you
receive whatever you know, funding you've been able to raise,
you do you do then have to pay your taxes.
So that's something that filmmakers should account for. But there's
there's no surprise there.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Right that you cannot outrun the I R s And
it is that time of year.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Absolutely, yeah, absolutely, there's robust resources across our platform on
and we've increasingly just or recently rolled out products that
will continue to support filmmakers and make this entire process
less intimidating to filmmakers. But with these new products and
(09:49):
the resources that we've had available online previously, folks can
learn how to you know, manage your campaign from pre
launch all the way through the entire process, how to
really engage or backer community and how to fulfill those
rewards and yes, also how to manage taxes. All of
(10:10):
those resources are available on our platform.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
It's interesting. And so as you start this, as you
start your job, you just recently joined the company at
the I believe it that toward the end of last year,
as you start this, where are you going to kind
of spread the word and sort of what is your
message directly to filmmakers once again, like why should they
come to Kickstarter.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
And these times especially it's greenlight yourself, greenlight yourself. That's
the opportunity here in working with our platform, working with
us and again we have this legacy of supporting artists
that I believe to be truly prolific. And that's what
has attracted me to wanting to be a part of
(10:56):
this mission that is very altruistic. You know, here at Kickstarter,
there's a couple of examples from the Veronica Mars movie
all the way to following the career and trajectory of
folks like Ania da Costa, who had Little Woods, you know,
(11:16):
on our platform and that went on to streaming at Hulu,
and then she directed the classic kind of horror film
Candy Man, and then onto a Marvel.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Movie, the biggest of the big studio pictures.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Yeah, the biggest of the big you know, everybody's dream.
But she didn't let. The folks who utilize and work with,
you know, our platform, they don't let. They don't wait
around for somebody to say yes to them. They green
light themselves. And so coming into this role in this
new year, what's going to be really big for us
is engaging creators, Engaging filmmakers with built in audiences, those
(11:57):
fan bases across genre, animation, horror, thriller, comedy. That's going
to be really huge for us. Along with supporting short films,
we have our long standing program Long Story Short every
March that you know that that we launch to support
and further short films because that is where we see,
(12:17):
of course a lot of the next generation of filmmakers
being active. So we'll always support the next generation. And
also we are really wanting established artists to know like
it is very possible for you to thrive and working
with our platform, you have.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Like a March madness of short films.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
It sounds like exactly, that's exactly what it is.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
That's do you are? They promoted it all on the
Kickstarter platform, how had it.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Yes, we balked to you by yes, yes, exactly. We
go hard for our short program across our platform, across
our social and those long story short creators that emphasis,
they found a lot of success. I mean, one of
them is going to be at south By Southwest presenting
(13:11):
her film this year. So it's a really strong program
where we've seen folks go on to Sundance, to south
By and other festivals.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
With so much production happening outside the US, in particular,
there's such an appetite for co productions within that there's
all kinds of different ways to piece together financing, and
an environment where people are piecing together financing, there's going
to be more appetite and more openness to different, you know,
all different forms of bringing in the dollars or euros
(13:44):
or whatever the you know, whatever the currency.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
May be exactly. And what we have seen is that
folks do go both the traditional funding models and also
utilize Kickstarter. We do seamlessly integrate into the overall creative process.
If you're making a feature film and you need funds
for post it like the marketing campaign you know, example
(14:10):
of The Apprentice, or if you want to raise fully
for your feature or even series like folks do that
on our platform and they have found a lot of success.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Where I should know this. Where is Kickstarter based? Give
me a sense of the scope of the organization that runs.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
So the company started in New York and now it's
fully remote, fully remote, and you know a lot there's
still a lot of us based here in New York.
I Hill from Brooklyn. But yeah, we are a global
company with the global reach and over twenty million repeat
(14:47):
backers on the platform, and those folks are from all
over the world, and so we are very engaged in
how we can be really engaging those backers across our
platform to the film category.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
And this just question occurred to me. You have people
that donate in various currencies, correct, Yes, Yes, that in
and of itself itself must be a management.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Yes, and we're really great at it. We're really great
at it. And I also would like to just like
reframe the language of donation because I think, particularly for filmmakers,
it is important for everyone to note the exchange, the
relationship that we're fostering on the platform and how they're
able to really build the trust with their backer community,
(15:33):
their audience time and time again by utilizing our platform.
It's really important. It's a difference, but I think it,
you know, my one on one conversations kind of hitting
the ground running at Sundance and soon to be at
south By. It's really important for the industry to recognize.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
That, don't go anywhere. We'll be right back with more
from Taylor case Jaw right after this break, and we're
back with more from Kickstarter executive Taylor case Shaw. Do
you offer any kind of a tiered access if you
if you pay more for a certain level of access,
(16:11):
do you get in a certain level of support? Is
that part of one of the things that you're talking
to people about.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Yes, Tiered access or tiered rewards is a huge piece
of the draw for both the artists that utilize the
platform and backers. And so you know, you can offer
everything from a pen that is, uh, people go crazy,
people go crazy for the pens all the way to
(16:40):
you know, a director's workshop all the way to like
a producer credit, and so that is really important to
the backer community. I think, especially for film is how
can they be able to say like, hey, I was
a part of this very special project that is now
you know, doing a large festival run and has like
(17:01):
meaningful distribution.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
Do you I know as an industry professional that you
know that this there's a lot of adjudication that goes
on with the guilds and different organizations around credits. Is
that is that something that you've had to navigate in
terms of in terms of if the if the artist
wants to do that kind of credit, there's got to
be ways to do it. But then there's also like
(17:26):
people lay people would be surprised if the amount of
energy that goes into adjudicating credits for obvious reasons. These
are from the heart and soul of people that you
know put everything into it. But that general issue, I'm
sure you've had to deal.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
With absolutely, and you can't always give those out and
so every filmmaker you know doesn't. But there are a
tons of rewards that it is possible to give your
back up community that makes them feel engaged in the project.
So so yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Yeah, it's very it's very interesting. Let me ask you
about your background. Before you know, you were a recent
person to have joined Kickstarter. Before that, you were part
of a company. You helped launch a company called Black
Women Anime that you did a lot of very interesting
You did brand work, you did some short films, some
interstitial work for companies like A and E Networks, Hulu, HBO, Netflix,
(18:22):
just some little little companies out there. Talk about how
that experience of launching a company, being being in the
business of selling content and making content, how that has
helped prepare you for the job they have now.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Yeah, so I'm still operating BWA Studios, So.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
That hasn't that that's not on the side right now,
that is still an active Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
Still operating it. And also when this opportunity opened up,
I couldn't say no. Is really like a yes, yes
yes for me because I'm deeply committed to building and
structure for for artists to thrive. And that's because I
am an artist myself, and I know just how hard
(19:06):
it is to get exciting, adventurous work made in this
traditional system. I've had for slip deals, I've had agents,
you know, I've done and I've tried to poke that
bear so many times. And the animation company is independent
and I originally started it because I was looking to
(19:28):
make an animated series about millennials who are too woke
to get real jobs. Yes, so they've come up with
all these crazy side hustles to get money for their art,
and they just so happened to be black women, you know,
women of color, and it was just so difficult to
find you know, black female animators that could work on
(19:52):
the on the project with me, and so then a
studio formed, and so just and through that entire process
of creating dependently working inside and outside of the studio system.
My heart is with filmmakers and I this is this
is a meaningful part of my journeys to be able
(20:13):
to be a part of Kickstarter and help grow this
legacy in future.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Have you to date in running Black Women Anime b
w A studios? Have you used Kickstarter or any kind
of crowdsourced funding.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
We haven't yet. I have really hit the pavement getting
all kinds of funding, but we haven't yet. But it's
great about Kickstarter is that everyone is encouraged to be creative.
And we do have folks at Kickstarter who've run campaigns
and so you never know, you really never know. I
(20:51):
am both focused on supporting all of the filmmakers that
come to us on our platform, and I also committed
to creating because I think it's simp ordant to create
and have that information and then be able to impart
that onto the experiences that we have with filmmakers. So
who knows, TBD, I still need to make that show
because again that's and that just tells you how hard
(21:13):
it is. I mean it's been almost a decade. That
shows you how hard it is to get your your
work made. So so yeah, I am so pro a
potential campaign in the future.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Let's step back again. What was it that led you
You have both a business brain and a creative brain,
which is a rare combination. What was it that led
you to the you know, the work of being an animator,
the work of being creative, and has led you to
to you know, what you've done so far.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Yes, I have a journalism degree, and I'll spare you
all of the details about how I landed in television
and film. But I started to work on different TV
shows and and film sets and then later doing producing
for Viceland, Vice Media's TV channel, and so within all
(22:05):
of that, there was just so much content that I
wasn't seeing that I felt, you know, could be out there,
and so I was always pitching fresh ideas that you know,
what about this, what about this filmmaker, what about this creator?
And so that has been the foundation of my career,
kind of seeing the gaps and wanting to in a
(22:28):
meaningful and genuine way provide an opportunity for for artists
to get their things made, to get their their films made.
And so that, you know, my my creative journey and
my business journey have always been very closely linked because yeah,
I think just it's really important. And again I'm attracted
(22:51):
to Kickstarter because of that altruism of we want to
see you create no matter what. And that's that's the foundation.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
Of my as a business owner and at b w A.
What what is the stuff that you that you like
doing the most? Is it the is it the creative development?
Is it the marketing? Is it the get you know?
Is it? Is it the pitching?
Speaker 2 (23:14):
I think about this a lot. I think about it
a lot because in our world we really try to
put it, We try to put folks in a box.
And like you said, it is a it is a
rare combination to you know, love building business and you know,
be be okay at it and also uh creating and
(23:35):
being an artist. And so I love having the opportunity
to inspire, and I believe for me that comes from
both business and art. So my brain goes to scaling
quite often. And also I'm in as as a New
(23:57):
Yorker who I'm just so inspired by life. So whenever
inspiration for me, it sparks equally on both sides when
it comes to business and when it comes to when
it comes to art. So again, this was like a
divine timing for me, this this role here with Kickstarter
(24:18):
opening up, because I'm constantly in creative conversation with amazing
filmmakers who are going to make their work no matter what.
That inspires me as an artist and also inspires me
on the business front because I'm just so driven to
ensure that they are successful.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
And I'm sure you've a great perch to see a
lot of different strategies at going at it.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Yeah, so many strategies, And my brain then goes to, like,
how can we codify all of this? So a lot
of these, you know, really important and the questions that
you're asking about the process and the how that folks
just know, Oh, I'm just I'm gonna run that Kickstarter.
I'm gonna run the kickstarter campaign. It makes a lot
of sense.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
What in your experience has made for a really successful
Kickstarter campaign? What does a filmmaker an artist have to
bring the table to really resonate, especially if they're not,
you know, already kind of a boldface name, but they're
coming up.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Yeah. So, folks who do have a community and audience,
a fan base, our platform is really primed for them
to succeed. Absolutely, and also for emerging talent that is
trying to get out there. We have, as I shared,
the twenty million plus backers across our platform. We have
(25:40):
the resources and tools to tell them how to run
a very successful campaign and then the infrastructure to support
them with engaging their community. And so you know, what
you really need is I think the confidence and the
drive to do it no matter what for emerging talent,
and they've seen a ton of success in launching their
(26:03):
careers on the platform along with established folks. If you
already have that built in base, you can expect to
see them show up for you utilizing our platform. A
really great example is Critical Role. They had a really
great online presence. They wanted to make an animated film
(26:25):
and they did the Legend of Ox Machina, which ended
up making its way to Amazon Prime. They raised eleven
point three million with eighty eight thousand, almost eighty nine
thousand backers coming to support them. And so that's a
real testament to fostering community and audience and then you
(26:48):
know your our platform is trusted, you're able to bring
them over to us. Last thing I'll say is for
emerging talent. You know, we live in this world of
social media, and you know, everybody, everybody as a million followers.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
And everybody lives every second of their lives on social media.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
It seems yes, and I think the I think folks
are moving away from that. That's another conversation. But you know,
really you don't need a million followers. You need one
thousand people who get your work and want to support
it and who will back you with that with the
(27:26):
knowledge of like I supply this person's work is meaningful
to me. And I think when we break down the numbers,
it's so intimidating to It can be so intimidating to
launch any type of campaign of funding, you know, not
just just crowdfunding. It's really important that artists understand that
one person at a time, you know, one backroun at
(27:47):
a time, you can you can do it, and so
I'm We're excited to continue to engage emerging filmmakers and
support them on that journey.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Taylor, you're about to hit the festival, search it all.
We both know these are very uncertain times for the
film business. What are you out there looking for? What
green shoots? What? What are you hoping to find as
you go around the country and talk to people.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
We'll be at south By Southwest next We're presenting a
sponsor for their Film and TV Awards, and we're also
hosting a dinner with the narrative feature filmmakers across the board.
What we're looking for at Tribeca this year, at other
you know, festivals and opportunities that we have to meet
(28:34):
with filmmakers. We are looking for people who are ready
to go now, and we're also looking to connect with
industry partners who also want to support independent filmmaking because now,
now is the time, The opportunity is now, and we
can't wait for that green light.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Thanks for listening. Be sure to leave us a review
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Please go to Variety dot com and sign up for
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tune in next week for another episode of Strictly Business.
Welcome to Strictly Business Varieties, weekly podcast featuring conversations with
industry leaders about the business of media and entertainment. I'm
Cynthia Lyttleton, co editor in chief of Variety. Today. My
guest is Taylor K. Shaw. Shaw is the newly hired
senior Outreach Lead for Film at Kickstarter. She's also an
(00:30):
independent producer and an entrepreneur who leads BWA Studios. Shaw's
hire is a sign that Kickstarter wants to elevate the
activity that is generated on the platform by professional filmmakers.
Kickstarter is not only a place to generate money for projects,
it can also be an engine of engaging with fans
(00:51):
and keeping them connected to projects and franchises. Shaw is
in the midst of a festival tour to talk to
industry insiders about how Kickstarter can bring them production funding
and more. But don't call it a donation. Shaw explains
why in the conversation that is coming right up after
this break and we're back with my conversation with Taylor
(01:24):
Ka Shaw, Senior Outreach Lead for Film for Kickstarter. Taylor
Ka Shaw, newly appointed head of Film for Kickstarter. Thank
you so much for joining me on this slightly rainy
day in New York.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Thank you for having me and very very much so
looking forward to our conversation.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Tell me about what's your mandate coming in and what
was it about this job that attracted you to coming
to Kickstarter.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
The mandate coming in is to bring awareness two filmmakers
who are established, who have that built in audience, to
bring awareness that Kickstarter has a long standing legacy of
supporting prolific talent and really helping them fund and launch
(02:13):
their careers, like the likes of Anisa Ray or Phoebe Wallerbridge.
And so it really brought me here is the alignment
between my passion for building strong infrastructure for artists to
thrive and really seeing the need in this moment for
all artists, all filmmakers, whether you're emerging or established, the
(02:36):
need to be creatively independent.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
You go right to the heart of it is that
there is a sense that Kickstarter is for the person
that has been writing a script in their basement and
making super eight films and now has a great idea
and really wants to get out there, not for an
established showrunner an established screenwriter. But you're just telling me
(02:59):
that that is wrong.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Yes, the most recent example is with The Apprentice you know,
which now has two Oscar nominations, and they had a
lot of success at con they and Tell You Ride,
and they still had a lot of difficulty with getting
distribution for the film, and so they turned to Kickstarter
(03:24):
to really prove that the audience, the community, folks want
to see this film and it means something to folks.
And they did prove that, raising one hundred thousand and
just twelve hours and then overall four hundred thousand for
the marketing of the film.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Let me let's take let's use that as an example,
because obviously that was a very controversial film some both
financial considerations and unavoidably political conversations. Variety covered a lot
about The Apprentice, so we're very definitely, very well aware.
So when the first of all, how do you know,
and this might have predated your joining Kickstarter, but did
(04:04):
somebody at Kickstarter reach out to people involved with the
film and say, hey, we might be able to help
or did they was that organic? Did they immediately go
to Kickstarter when they realized they were going to need
some help in bringing in some money pretty quickly.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
So they came to Kickstarter, which I think is really
special because that only happens if you are aware of
the power of the platform and what is possible when
you allow for your community to participate and uplift your work.
So they took advantage of an opportunity to utilize our platform,
(04:40):
and that's one that every if you just look a
little bit more into our history, and I hope to
share that more here with you today. But if you
look into it, you can make a campaign and really
reach out to those who care about your work, and
it can sing, and so they take it upon themselves
to take their power back and start a grassroots movement.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Let me ask you the question that I've always had
with around crowdsourcing and these types of platforms. If the
people that are contributing to these funds, if the people
are doing it in fact to get a return on investment,
how do you track that, especially over the life cycle
of something like a film.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
What is fabulous about Kickstarter is that our backers, the
backer community, they're not looking for a return on investment.
They are really looking to be a part of films,
creative projects that mean something to them. A great example
was with hair Love. You know that Oscar winning short
(05:43):
that went on to be a mac series for hair Love.
When that wind happened on you know, social media, everyone
who backed the Kickstarter campaign was like, I was a
part of this film, like you know, we want an oscar.
And so that is what the backer community at Kickstarter
(06:04):
is looking for. There is actually no equity exchange. What
they receive is rewards. Those rewards are ways for them
to be calm or receive something that allows for them
to be more deeply engaged in in the process, in
life cycle of the other projects.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
It is. It is interesting and it's an it's an
interesting evolution in fandom that this kind of access and
this kind of opportunity to be part of something. Thinking
like a lawyer, like, are there are there any unexpected
downsides that the company has had to deal with? Are
there people that come back and then claim some kind
(06:48):
of authorship because they you know, I guess I'm asking
the Devil's advocate question in terms of in terms of
any kind of like rights or authorship or just claims
after the fact.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
You know, from the very beginning to backers and two artists,
the real draw for artists is knowing that their IP
is their IP and we allow for full creative control
when that is not the norm. Creative ownership is not
the you know norm in the traditional funding, the traditional
(07:24):
studio model, definitely not. Yes, So our backers know that
from the beginning of supporting a project, and that's very
clearly laid out for everyone. The true I you know,
with the filmmakers I speak to, I really when they
express this sentiment that's concerned about, you know, how exactly
does this work. I've only you know, hit the pavement
(07:48):
the streets of LA trying to make it in the
traditional way. What I say is everyone is not an artist.
Everyone is not a filmmaker. So everyone doesn't have that
unique ability to tell a story that resonates and that
really helps us see each other as human beings. Everyone
doesn't have that skill, and so you are offering to
(08:13):
people the opportunity to participate and to say that I
have furthered this creative project that deeply means something to me,
that I see the power and potential of this particular
artist as well. So the exchange that's there is you know,
of course, the rewards piece, but it's really this opportunity
(08:35):
to be a part of something greater for the backer
and for the filmmaker the opportunities to continue to build
time and time again with that dedicated global community that
we have a Kickstarter.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
It's incredible that the amount of boundaries, the boundaries that
can sort of be erased by this ability. Let me
ask you, how is it.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
How is this money.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Treated on a tax basis for a filmmaker? Is it
considered a donation?
Speaker 2 (09:05):
So folks do have to pay their taxes and so
you know through the platform, when you know, once you
receive whatever you know, funding you've been able to raise,
you do you do then have to pay your taxes.
So that's something that filmmakers should account for. But there's
there's no surprise there.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Right that you cannot outrun the I R s And
it is that time of year.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Absolutely, yeah, absolutely, there's robust resources across our platform on
and we've increasingly just or recently rolled out products that
will continue to support filmmakers and make this entire process
less intimidating to filmmakers. But with these new products and
(09:49):
the resources that we've had available online previously, folks can
learn how to you know, manage your campaign from pre
launch all the way through the entire process, how to
really engage or backer community and how to fulfill those
rewards and yes, also how to manage taxes. All of
(10:10):
those resources are available on our platform.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
It's interesting. And so as you start this, as you
start your job, you just recently joined the company at
the I believe it that toward the end of last year,
as you start this, where are you going to kind
of spread the word and sort of what is your
message directly to filmmakers once again, like why should they
come to Kickstarter.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
And these times especially it's greenlight yourself, greenlight yourself. That's
the opportunity here in working with our platform, working with
us and again we have this legacy of supporting artists
that I believe to be truly prolific. And that's what
has attracted me to wanting to be a part of
(10:56):
this mission that is very altruistic. You know, here at Kickstarter,
there's a couple of examples from the Veronica Mars movie
all the way to following the career and trajectory of
folks like Ania da Costa, who had Little Woods, you know,
(11:16):
on our platform and that went on to streaming at Hulu,
and then she directed the classic kind of horror film
Candy Man, and then onto a Marvel.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Movie, the biggest of the big studio pictures.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Yeah, the biggest of the big you know, everybody's dream.
But she didn't let. The folks who utilize and work with,
you know, our platform, they don't let. They don't wait
around for somebody to say yes to them. They green
light themselves. And so coming into this role in this
new year, what's going to be really big for us
is engaging creators, Engaging filmmakers with built in audiences, those
(11:57):
fan bases across genre, animation, horror, thriller, comedy. That's going
to be really huge for us. Along with supporting short films,
we have our long standing program Long Story Short every
March that you know that that we launch to support
and further short films because that is where we see,
(12:17):
of course a lot of the next generation of filmmakers
being active. So we'll always support the next generation. And
also we are really wanting established artists to know like
it is very possible for you to thrive and working
with our platform, you have.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Like a March madness of short films.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
It sounds like exactly, that's exactly what it is.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
That's do you are? They promoted it all on the
Kickstarter platform, how had it.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Yes, we balked to you by yes, yes, exactly. We
go hard for our short program across our platform, across
our social and those long story short creators that emphasis,
they found a lot of success. I mean, one of
them is going to be at south By Southwest presenting
(13:11):
her film this year. So it's a really strong program
where we've seen folks go on to Sundance, to south
By and other festivals.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
With so much production happening outside the US, in particular,
there's such an appetite for co productions within that there's
all kinds of different ways to piece together financing, and
an environment where people are piecing together financing, there's going
to be more appetite and more openness to different, you know,
all different forms of bringing in the dollars or euros
(13:44):
or whatever the you know, whatever the currency.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
May be exactly. And what we have seen is that
folks do go both the traditional funding models and also
utilize Kickstarter. We do seamlessly integrate into the overall creative process.
If you're making a feature film and you need funds
for post it like the marketing campaign you know, example
(14:10):
of The Apprentice, or if you want to raise fully
for your feature or even series like folks do that
on our platform and they have found a lot of success.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Where I should know this. Where is Kickstarter based? Give
me a sense of the scope of the organization that runs.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
So the company started in New York and now it's
fully remote, fully remote, and you know a lot there's
still a lot of us based here in New York.
I Hill from Brooklyn. But yeah, we are a global
company with the global reach and over twenty million repeat
(14:47):
backers on the platform, and those folks are from all
over the world, and so we are very engaged in
how we can be really engaging those backers across our
platform to the film category.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
And this just question occurred to me. You have people
that donate in various currencies, correct, Yes, Yes, that in
and of itself itself must be a management.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Yes, and we're really great at it. We're really great
at it. And I also would like to just like
reframe the language of donation because I think, particularly for filmmakers,
it is important for everyone to note the exchange, the
relationship that we're fostering on the platform and how they're
able to really build the trust with their backer community,
(15:33):
their audience time and time again by utilizing our platform.
It's really important. It's a difference, but I think it,
you know, my one on one conversations kind of hitting
the ground running at Sundance and soon to be at
south By. It's really important for the industry to recognize.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
That, don't go anywhere. We'll be right back with more
from Taylor case Jaw right after this break, and we're
back with more from Kickstarter executive Taylor case Shaw. Do
you offer any kind of a tiered access if you
if you pay more for a certain level of access,
(16:11):
do you get in a certain level of support? Is
that part of one of the things that you're talking
to people about.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Yes, Tiered access or tiered rewards is a huge piece
of the draw for both the artists that utilize the
platform and backers. And so you know, you can offer
everything from a pen that is, uh, people go crazy,
people go crazy for the pens all the way to
(16:40):
you know, a director's workshop all the way to like
a producer credit, and so that is really important to
the backer community. I think, especially for film is how
can they be able to say like, hey, I was
a part of this very special project that is now
you know, doing a large festival run and has like
(17:01):
meaningful distribution.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
Do you I know as an industry professional that you
know that this there's a lot of adjudication that goes
on with the guilds and different organizations around credits. Is
that is that something that you've had to navigate in
terms of in terms of if the if the artist
wants to do that kind of credit, there's got to
be ways to do it. But then there's also like
(17:26):
people lay people would be surprised if the amount of
energy that goes into adjudicating credits for obvious reasons. These
are from the heart and soul of people that you
know put everything into it. But that general issue, I'm
sure you've had to deal.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
With absolutely, and you can't always give those out and
so every filmmaker you know doesn't. But there are a
tons of rewards that it is possible to give your
back up community that makes them feel engaged in the project.
So so yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Yeah, it's very it's very interesting. Let me ask you
about your background. Before you know, you were a recent
person to have joined Kickstarter. Before that, you were part
of a company. You helped launch a company called Black
Women Anime that you did a lot of very interesting
You did brand work, you did some short films, some
interstitial work for companies like A and E Networks, Hulu, HBO, Netflix,
(18:22):
just some little little companies out there. Talk about how
that experience of launching a company, being being in the
business of selling content and making content, how that has
helped prepare you for the job they have now.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Yeah, so I'm still operating BWA Studios, So.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
That hasn't that that's not on the side right now,
that is still an active Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
Still operating it. And also when this opportunity opened up,
I couldn't say no. Is really like a yes, yes
yes for me because I'm deeply committed to building and
structure for for artists to thrive. And that's because I
am an artist myself, and I know just how hard
(19:06):
it is to get exciting, adventurous work made in this
traditional system. I've had for slip deals, I've had agents,
you know, I've done and I've tried to poke that
bear so many times. And the animation company is independent
and I originally started it because I was looking to
(19:28):
make an animated series about millennials who are too woke
to get real jobs. Yes, so they've come up with
all these crazy side hustles to get money for their art,
and they just so happened to be black women, you know,
women of color, and it was just so difficult to
find you know, black female animators that could work on
(19:52):
the on the project with me, and so then a
studio formed, and so just and through that entire process
of creating dependently working inside and outside of the studio system.
My heart is with filmmakers and I this is this
is a meaningful part of my journeys to be able
(20:13):
to be a part of Kickstarter and help grow this
legacy in future.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Have you to date in running Black Women Anime b
w A studios? Have you used Kickstarter or any kind
of crowdsourced funding.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
We haven't yet. I have really hit the pavement getting
all kinds of funding, but we haven't yet. But it's
great about Kickstarter is that everyone is encouraged to be creative.
And we do have folks at Kickstarter who've run campaigns
and so you never know, you really never know. I
(20:51):
am both focused on supporting all of the filmmakers that
come to us on our platform, and I also committed
to creating because I think it's simp ordant to create
and have that information and then be able to impart
that onto the experiences that we have with filmmakers. So
who knows, TBD, I still need to make that show
because again that's and that just tells you how hard
(21:13):
it is. I mean it's been almost a decade. That
shows you how hard it is to get your your
work made. So so yeah, I am so pro a
potential campaign in the future.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Let's step back again. What was it that led you
You have both a business brain and a creative brain,
which is a rare combination. What was it that led
you to the you know, the work of being an animator,
the work of being creative, and has led you to
to you know, what you've done so far.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Yes, I have a journalism degree, and I'll spare you
all of the details about how I landed in television
and film. But I started to work on different TV
shows and and film sets and then later doing producing
for Viceland, Vice Media's TV channel, and so within all
(22:05):
of that, there was just so much content that I
wasn't seeing that I felt, you know, could be out there,
and so I was always pitching fresh ideas that you know,
what about this, what about this filmmaker, what about this creator?
And so that has been the foundation of my career,
kind of seeing the gaps and wanting to in a
(22:28):
meaningful and genuine way provide an opportunity for for artists
to get their things made, to get their their films made.
And so that, you know, my my creative journey and
my business journey have always been very closely linked because yeah,
I think just it's really important. And again I'm attracted
(22:51):
to Kickstarter because of that altruism of we want to
see you create no matter what. And that's that's the foundation.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
Of my as a business owner and at b w A.
What what is the stuff that you that you like
doing the most? Is it the is it the creative development?
Is it the marketing? Is it the get you know?
Is it? Is it the pitching?
Speaker 2 (23:14):
I think about this a lot. I think about it
a lot because in our world we really try to
put it, We try to put folks in a box.
And like you said, it is a it is a
rare combination to you know, love building business and you know,
be be okay at it and also uh creating and
(23:35):
being an artist. And so I love having the opportunity
to inspire, and I believe for me that comes from
both business and art. So my brain goes to scaling
quite often. And also I'm in as as a New
(23:57):
Yorker who I'm just so inspired by life. So whenever
inspiration for me, it sparks equally on both sides when
it comes to business and when it comes to when
it comes to art. So again, this was like a
divine timing for me, this this role here with Kickstarter
(24:18):
opening up, because I'm constantly in creative conversation with amazing
filmmakers who are going to make their work no matter what.
That inspires me as an artist and also inspires me
on the business front because I'm just so driven to
ensure that they are successful.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
And I'm sure you've a great perch to see a
lot of different strategies at going at it.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Yeah, so many strategies, And my brain then goes to, like,
how can we codify all of this? So a lot
of these, you know, really important and the questions that
you're asking about the process and the how that folks
just know, Oh, I'm just I'm gonna run that Kickstarter.
I'm gonna run the kickstarter campaign. It makes a lot
of sense.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
What in your experience has made for a really successful
Kickstarter campaign? What does a filmmaker an artist have to
bring the table to really resonate, especially if they're not,
you know, already kind of a boldface name, but they're
coming up.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Yeah. So, folks who do have a community and audience,
a fan base, our platform is really primed for them
to succeed. Absolutely, and also for emerging talent that is
trying to get out there. We have, as I shared,
the twenty million plus backers across our platform. We have
(25:40):
the resources and tools to tell them how to run
a very successful campaign and then the infrastructure to support
them with engaging their community. And so you know, what
you really need is I think the confidence and the
drive to do it no matter what for emerging talent,
and they've seen a ton of success in launching their
(26:03):
careers on the platform along with established folks. If you
already have that built in base, you can expect to
see them show up for you utilizing our platform. A
really great example is Critical Role. They had a really
great online presence. They wanted to make an animated film
(26:25):
and they did the Legend of Ox Machina, which ended
up making its way to Amazon Prime. They raised eleven
point three million with eighty eight thousand, almost eighty nine
thousand backers coming to support them. And so that's a
real testament to fostering community and audience and then you
(26:48):
know your our platform is trusted, you're able to bring
them over to us. Last thing I'll say is for
emerging talent. You know, we live in this world of
social media, and you know, everybody, everybody as a million followers.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
And everybody lives every second of their lives on social media.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
It seems yes, and I think the I think folks
are moving away from that. That's another conversation. But you know,
really you don't need a million followers. You need one
thousand people who get your work and want to support
it and who will back you with that with the
(27:26):
knowledge of like I supply this person's work is meaningful
to me. And I think when we break down the numbers,
it's so intimidating to It can be so intimidating to
launch any type of campaign of funding, you know, not
just just crowdfunding. It's really important that artists understand that
one person at a time, you know, one backroun at
(27:47):
a time, you can you can do it, and so
I'm We're excited to continue to engage emerging filmmakers and
support them on that journey.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Taylor, you're about to hit the festival, search it all.
We both know these are very uncertain times for the
film business. What are you out there looking for? What
green shoots? What? What are you hoping to find as
you go around the country and talk to people.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
We'll be at south By Southwest next We're presenting a
sponsor for their Film and TV Awards, and we're also
hosting a dinner with the narrative feature filmmakers across the board.
What we're looking for at Tribeca this year, at other
you know, festivals and opportunities that we have to meet
(28:34):
with filmmakers. We are looking for people who are ready
to go now, and we're also looking to connect with
industry partners who also want to support independent filmmaking because now,
now is the time, The opportunity is now, and we
can't wait for that green light.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Thanks for listening. Be sure to leave us a review
at Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music. We love to hear from listeners.
Please go to Variety dot com and sign up for
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