September 26, 2025 • 32 mins
On today’s episode, hear from top industry executives on the latest shifts in streaming and linear strategies, the rise of YouTube and savvy IP management. The full opening session from the Variety Entertainment & Technology Summit features Starz’s Alison Hoffman, NBCUniversal’s Lisa Katz, Amazon MGM Studios’ Laura Lancaster, Warner Bros. TV Group’s Brett Paul, Sony Pictures TV’s Katherine Pope and Fox’s Michael Thorn.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Strictly Business, Variety's weekly podcast featuring conversations with
industry leaders about the business of media and entertainment. I'm
Cynthia Lyttleton, co editor in chief of Variety Today. My
guests are definitely industry leaders in TV. On September twenty fifth,
Variety hosted its annual Entertainment and Technology Summit in Los Angeles.
(00:21):
It kicked off with the panel that I moderated, featuring
six senior executives chopping it up on the latest ships
and streaming strategies, the rise of YouTube, and savvy IP
management skills. The session features Alison Hoffman of Stars, Lisa
Katz of NBC Universal, Laura Lancaster of Amazon MGM Studios,
(00:42):
Brett Paul of Warner Brothers Television Group, Katherine Pope of
Sony Pictures Television, and Michael Thorne of Fox Entertainment. This
panel was the strong cup of coffee that sum at
attendees needed to get the day off to a productive start.
It was truly standing room only at the event all day.
(01:02):
For that, Variety extends its extreme gratitude to all of
our speakers and all of our attendees. Here's the panel.
Good morning, everyone, Thank you so much for coming bright
and early and filling this room. We are so stoked
to be here. Thank you to our panelist. I'll look
at all these high achievers getting here. First thing in
the morning. We are going to sort out streaming. We're
(01:25):
gonna fix it. We're gonna fix all the monetization. We
got here in forty minutes. This is a great panel
because these folks all have had a lot of experience
getting through you know, difficult times, sometimes from the different
sides of the table, from different sides of the networker studio.
And right now, all that experience, all that camaraderie and
goodwill is more important than ever because you know, we
(01:46):
keep saying it, but it keeps being true that the
industry is turning itself inside out in terms of business models, exhibition.
We gave you a little bit of homework in terms
of things to talk about, but I throw it out
to you in terms of in the last say, twelve months,
how would you say the honed focus on streaming across
the industry is changing your business and the way you work.
(02:09):
I throw it out to anybody as a jump ball. Catherine,
you're nodding your heady.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Sure, I'll jump in.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
I think that we are on the other side of PEAKTV,
as everyone acknowledges, and I think the biggest change I've
seen in the last year and a half is the
focus on budgets and timelines, and I think that's been
a positive for the industry.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
I think we.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Want to make more show, more episodes, more seasons, more
shows for our fans. So I think that focusing in
on a portfolio of you've got your giant shows, you've
got your midside shows, and then you've got your shows
that can be calendared and repeatable and the audience can
really respond to. I think that's been a big change.
(02:56):
I think the pit is very much a leader in
that and that we all were rooting for because it
kind of returns to what TV does best, which is
the novelization art form. And so I think, you know,
just not having rules of this is a streaming show,
but acknowledging that streaming is television is novelization storytelling has
(03:21):
been I think the biggest change.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Thank you, Catherine, And while I was so busy telling
everybody how these folks have worked together, I forgot to
introduce the Catherine Pope, President of Sony Pictures TV.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Thank you for taking that jump ball.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Right next to me here Brett Paul, President of Warner
Brothers Television Group. Next to Brett is Laura Lancaster, head
of co production and ongoing Series for Amazon MGM Studios.
Next to Laura is Alison Hoffman, President of Stars Networks.
Next to Katherine is Michael Thorn, President of Fox Television Networks.
And next to Michael is Lisa Katz, President of scripted
(03:53):
Content for NBC Universal Entertainment's okay, you've all had a
few more minutes to.
Speaker 4 (03:57):
Think now, I would jump in base on the handoff
from Catherine regarding the pit which we're incredibly proud of obviously, as.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
You should be congratulations.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
I mean it, you know, yielded five Emmy Awards and
we couldn't be happier. I mean, the thing about that
show was, you know, Scott Gemmel and Noah Wiley and
John Wells really set out to do something that really
hadn't been done yet in that it sort of ripped
some ideas from broadcast in that it was fifteen episodes,
(04:28):
which enables viewers to really dig into the characters a
little bit more. It allows for co viewing as there's
weekly drops. But also it's not going to be on
a year cadence, which is sort of a broadcast norm
but really hasn't been done in streaming very often, even
with fewer episodes. But what it did was it sort
of reinvented a medical genre because it stripped it all
(04:49):
down and it elevated the form and made it possible
for it to work in streaming. You know, we're doing
other medical show and there's other medical shows. I know
some people appearable to talk about them. We have Lisa
and I have It's okay to say Doc, Doc, We'll.
Speaker 5 (05:04):
Get to that.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
We'll get to that.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
But no, but it's true.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
You'll get a cheer from two of the folks because
Doc is a Sony show for Fox.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Television right match later, Yeah, that's right, but Molly Parker
and it's really good, just as like the Pit.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
But what's interesting about and that's right? And Warner Brothers
is producing brilliant Minds. It's also going into its second
season for ENDC. But all of them are interesting in
that you have two that are broadcast, you have one
that's streaming. They're reinventions of a medical genre theme. They
all have different entry points and they all stand distinctly alone.
(05:38):
So in my mind, the takeaway from this is, if
you have a quality show, it can play anywhere. I think,
you know, audiences have come to expect a certain elevated
idea from streaming and so stripping away some of the
music cues and some of you know, you saw some
things that you may not see on broadcast television. But
(05:59):
I think that's what may the pit stand out. It
was it was sort of a love letter to er
workers in an er that you know very much.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
So yeah, and as you say, the strip awayness really
just you just felt like you were in that world
and that feeling of like you can't escape the blood,
the guts, the gore, the drama is it's really.
Speaker 4 (06:18):
It puts you, It puts you in the center of it.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
But it is I think you raise an interesting point. Obviously,
the new normal for streaming became eight episodes, ten episodes.
All of you have come up, We've all come up
in a world where the goal had been, you know,
as many seasons as you can, and in success shows
did twenty four, yes, twenty six.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
I remember the days of Fox and.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
They would squeeze, you know, twenty eight out of nine
oh two one oh when it was when it was working.
I would love if people would respond to Brett and
I think basically it is, you know, people in television
want renewable resources. They the limited series that was eight
episodes and costs nine figures, Like, that's a tough business
right now. Would you say, Michael, would you say, like
(06:59):
the move toward you're doing that a little bit.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Also with Doc, if I'm honest, I.
Speaker 5 (07:03):
Think what the best approach is to look at each
show individually and look at how do you tell the
best story. Some series can be done in twenty two
episodes on Doc, which was a breakout success for Catherine
and I the season and so we're very proud of it.
(07:24):
And we looked each other in the eye and said,
this show could do twenty two episodes.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
And remember those days and.
Speaker 5 (07:32):
Yes, and we along with Barbie and Hank, the creators
of the show, we were like, you know, we know
medical shows can do twenty two episodes and be great,
and so we held hands to go back in time
and it's going really well. So but other shows that
we do, we have a show actually with Warner Brothers,
a new series that's premier and called Memory of a Killer.
(07:54):
It's heavily serialized, it's about a very flawed character, and
that show is best told in probably ten to twelve
episodes a season because of the point of view of
the creators in that story. And I think at least
our approach is look at each show and what's the
(08:17):
best way to tell that story, and then looking at it,
like as Catherine was getting it, how do you make
the best show at the best budget possible. That doesn't
mean every show is inexpensive.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
It just means how do.
Speaker 5 (08:31):
You make it a how do you tell the best story?
And then still remember it's a business, And that tension
right now is something that I think we're all dealing with.
Speaker 6 (08:41):
The Other advantage of long seasons is that it's so
easy to disconnect in the streaming world.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
And so if you have a show, I mean actually
say I'm going to quit.
Speaker 6 (08:51):
This service for a while, such easier than it was
twelve years ago, right.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
And you must feel that when you see that.
Speaker 5 (08:57):
Yes, so I think if.
Speaker 6 (08:58):
You can have a successful show that can reliably deliver
audience for twenty two weeks, twenty six weeks, whatever it is,
you have a retentive force in your business. We just
green lit Power Origins, the prequel to Power, which is
a huge franchise for us, for eighteen episodes. We're doing
the same thing because that is a juggernaut in terms
(09:21):
of driving engagement, in terms of driving subscribers, but also
we can look to keep that audience engaged for a
longer period of time. Now, it used to be just
so difficult to disconnect because you'd have to call your
cable company and get on the phone, and then they'd
offer you things and you were often part of the package.
And so it's like, well, I'm going to pull the
thread on this tier that I've been and do I
(09:42):
really want to do that? But now it's just all
a la carte. It's very very easy, And so I
think what you guys are doing and in success, it
also makes great business sense.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
And Laura, I'd love your perspective from the studio side
in terms of like when you hear the episode, counselor
like are you pumping your fist like this is a
good thing, or how do you all from the studio perspective?
Speaker 7 (10:04):
Same same is what I think Michael said. What everybody's
saying here is in many ways we are it is
a case by case study of what is the right
way to tell this story and for us, where we
dove into this a little bit was the summary term pretty.
And what I found fascinating about the third season of
(10:24):
the summary term pretty is not only did we expand
it to eleven episodes, but we had almost twice as
much story and content as the previous season, meaning that
all of those episodes were super sized, there were many
of them were an hour or more.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
It was eleven episodes.
Speaker 7 (10:44):
It allowed us to have a weekly experience that built
to where it built incredibly successfully, lots of engagement. And
then additionally, what we're able to do at Amazon, which
is just different and is to be able to announce
the movie and so we're able to then even expand
that storytelling into new realms that furthers the franchise and
(11:08):
the story.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Absolutely, at least there's a lot, obviously a lot going
on with NBC and very soon you are going to
have the NBA back on your air. Can you talk
about how you are looking at the portfolio programming around
that and threading your scripted efforts into that.
Speaker 4 (11:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 8 (11:24):
Absolutely, I think in thinking about when everyone was talking
it's a portfolio approach. I think it's you're looking at
each show individually and what's as Michael said, what's best
for that show, what's best for the creative, what's best
for the audience, and then at the same time you're
also looking at how that works at the larger portfolio
and for us, being an integrated portfolio that has cable streaming,
(11:49):
linear and also the studios under the same ecosystem and
under the same leadership. That enables us to put things
in different places. And I think using sports to amplify
the audience and using it to bring more people. And
there's so many different ways that we can approach it,
because we could have a twenty two episode Dick Wolf
(12:10):
Show or five of them that air, you know, next
day on Peacock, and that continues the engagement for that audience. Similarly,
you could have something like The Paper, which just premiered
in September and is going to have a run on NBC,
where we do that weekly and give the audience a chance.
So we're going the opposite way this time, that audience
(12:32):
a chance to watch it weekly more like everybody watching
it at the same time, Like the olden days when
The Office first premiered twenty years ago on NBC, and
then sometimes that doesn't make sense for a show, so
you're looking at something that's exclusively Peacock. So that might
be you know, Ted, which we're going to have season
two coming in twenty six and that was our biggest
(12:55):
original streaming show that Dirty Bear does not belong on broadcasts.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
So it feels like.
Speaker 8 (13:00):
There's everything is very intentional and specific to where we
can expose it to as many people, but also make
sure we're exposing it to the right people and it's
not one size fits all, and using all of the
different assets in the portfolio and sports and live events
to amplify and to get as many people to watch
(13:22):
the shows.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
I think that's a huge change from a couple of
years ago, and whether it's Amazon or Stars or you know,
Fox or Peacock, like the ability and desire to try things,
try different ways to premiere, different ways to roll out.
I mean, like Laura is saying, going from a you know,
(13:43):
seasons of a TV show into a movie, there's just
so much more flexibility and how we're getting the word out.
I think like picking up multiple season stars, picked up
season two of the Outlanders spinoff Blood of My Blood
before season one premiered. We're doing sixteen upisodes of God
of War for Amazon like actually kind of flexing the
(14:04):
muscles that they have as platforms to benefit the shows
and to benefit not just behind the scenes with the
budget or whatever, but also to benefit how they serve
it up to their fans. Has been an enormous change,
I think one that's been so good for the shows themselves.
Getting to the actual audience.
Speaker 5 (14:23):
Yeah, I agree, I agree, there's something about one of
the changes over the past year. I think everyone is embracing.
It's actually fundamental to our business is our shared wins
and meeting audience is where they are. So for us,
it's similar in some ways to the way Lisa was
talking about, although our ecosystem is different. So for us,
(14:46):
we do the same thing where we leverage our linear
platform we get that huge broadcast audience. But then we
have our partnership with Hulu in Fox one, and so
you take a show like doc for example, and we
go all in with a very curated schedule. We put
(15:07):
all of our resources as opposed to launching ten shows
a couple and we get a really meaningful audience there,
but then it's also our biggest show on streaming and
then Sony just sold it to Netflix and so we
have season one on Netflix, number two, number two on Netflix. Yeah,
(15:27):
we'll see how we'll see watch it, just.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Watch let me ask you watch it.
Speaker 5 (15:31):
But that is like we're the spirit of that is
That's an example of I think on that show, leveraging
our our programming strengths and in the case of their
distribution strengths in the service of one show and what
we can offer. We have a food brand, the biggest
(15:52):
food brand, the biggest animation brand, and so when we
partner with Hulu or Fox one, we're able to leverage
each other's strengths. And I think you see it in
different ways with aggregation and other things like that on
other platforms. And so this idea of instead of a
walled garden that people can win together or is more
(16:14):
or is more?
Speaker 4 (16:15):
Yeah, I'd like to chime in on that time. I
actually love what you guys are saying, because you know
where you started this is there's a lot of integrated
companies and they have these ecosystems and what I'm really.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
And there's been consolidation that I think is forced a
certain focus on business.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
Priority, right, And I think what you're hearing from Michael
is that they're prioritizing the good of the show. So
you've got Catherine who's at Sony, who's licensing Fox and
Hulu runs to get the audience and bring him back
for season two, and that's going to be helped most
likely by the show's first season appearing on a completely
(16:53):
different system. Right.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
But let me ask you, Michael straight, when Captain says, Hey,
we're going to license season one Netflix, is your first reaction, Oh,
that's not my network?
Speaker 2 (17:03):
Or is there first?
Speaker 5 (17:04):
Do you want to see the emojis? Do you want
to see the emojis on our text chain?
Speaker 1 (17:09):
I mean, I think that this model was proven with
Breaking Bad was such as it was such a lift
for it.
Speaker 5 (17:15):
It's different for probably each platform in each ecosystem. What
we know is, while since we're talking about doc it
has a very it's our biggest drama, it's our biggest
new drama. We've had to rebuild our scripted programming and
Slate post Disney, and so it's show by show. When
(17:38):
you've got something that seems to really be resonating, you
put a lot of attention on it. We talk almost
every day about it, and then it's like, how do
you make it succeed on Fox on Hulu? And then
in the case of growing the audience, So if getting
an opportunity on Netflix to grow the audience and NEWPI
(18:00):
is only going to serve the show. We like to
your point about Breaking Bad, hopefully it serves season two
and getting people excited about the show to jump in
and watch. We'll see just dropped two days ago or
three days ago, and so it's you know, again, it's
step by step, but that strategy, I think we've seen
it work and we're going to continue to try different
(18:22):
things like that.
Speaker 6 (18:23):
Absolutely, Alison, Yeah, I was going to say, I think
from a network perspective, and because we are a service
being offered, we think about it as a benefit. But
you have to be very intentional about how you window
programming when you want ultimately the revenue and the subscribers
to accrue back to you. So I think with Breaking Bad,
that was a higher urgency show, so it could window
(18:46):
on Netflix and then it could drive back to AMC
because people were dying to come and see at first
wherever it was. I think as with I think everything
we're saying, it depends on the show, right. Sometimes if
it's not the right show with the right strategy, you
can sort of I would say, from the network perspective,
you can lose value and you can sort of lose.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
Your edge there, and that's got to be I mean,
that's a risky roll of the dice.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
We could keep going on, but there's a couple of
points I really want to hit. One thing we've been
reporting on all year is YouTube. We've all seen the numbers,
I mean, their growth as they are full.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
You know, they are no longer this thing you.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
Watch on your laptop or on your phone for a
few minutes watching the you know, cat videos. YouTube has
become television, not just YouTube TV the subscription platform, but
truly people are watching more YouTube on their TVs. We
saw those trend lines changed. I think it was either
late last year or early this year, and YouTube has
really been out there. I would love, especially Alison and
(19:44):
Laura for working in premium content. How do you balance
putting putting a little bit out on free because it
truly seems to me like in the last twelve months
it has become it's television, but it's also almost a utility.
I'd love people experience with experimenting in making YouTube work
for you with your with your high end, premium, very
(20:06):
expensive content.
Speaker 7 (20:08):
Congrats to YouTube first, first and foremost.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
They did not pay for this, but it really is
Oh no, no, no, it's a seismic it changed.
Speaker 7 (20:16):
I have a seventeen year old and an eighteen year old.
There's lots of YouTube happening in my house, and honestly,
it's it's I really mean that, like, congrats to them.
They're they're doing something really special. And I think for
us it is like everything, when something emerges like that,
you look at it, you how can we participate? How
(20:38):
can we how can that be part? It's part of
the ecosystem.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Now.
Speaker 7 (20:42):
I think that what we've been able to do at
Amazon is, which is one of the great things about Amazon,
there are many arms in different ways to participate with
folks and with I think mister Beast is a great
example of looking at talent that had emerged and then
finding a way to invite that talent into the Amazon
(21:02):
service and ecosystem.
Speaker 5 (21:04):
I think has been Hotel.
Speaker 7 (21:05):
You know, my partner Nick Pepper's side on the animation
side is another great example of that. So I embrace it.
I again, I admire what they're doing. And I would
also say I just I go back to summer, I
turn pretty again. It's just fascinating to me again having
young kids in my own home and watching them engage
(21:27):
in long form as well.
Speaker 6 (21:30):
I think we get excited about YouTube for a lot
of reasons. From a marketing perspective, there's no better place
to launch a trailer, there's no better place to drive eyeballs, awareness,
scene clips.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Do really well all of that. But they're also a distribution.
Speaker 6 (21:43):
Partner of ours, as it is Amazon incredible distribution partner
of ours, So we are distributed through YouTube TV. We
were one of the first to launch on primetime channels,
and so what gets really exciting I think for premium
television is you've got a great marketing platform that is
driving all of these eyeballs and all of this awareness
us and then creating the connectivity to driving subscriptions through
(22:04):
your distribution strategy. With YouTube, I think we're just at
the beginning of that, and I think to start connecting
those pipes gets really really cool for premium teleg players.
Speaker 5 (22:13):
I also think we're all in the voice business, you know,
where we're looking for new voices and who have different
points of views that can break out different programs. So
in addition to marketing, we're definitely looking at creators, maybe
more so on the unscripted side than the scripted side.
But you know, as Laura mentioned, Has Been Hotel that's
(22:35):
a show that I'm involved in the animation studio as well.
That's a show we made on Spec with A twenty four.
But the reason we made it on Spec was because
has Been Hotel existed on YouTube there were the creator
had over a million views on a pilot that she
made herself based on characters that existed before she made
(22:59):
that pilot. And so these voices are their IP and
they have an audience, and so the question is how
do you leverage their voices in a way that, just
like I was saying, we're trying to meet audiences where
they are. How do you take those voices and expand
their reach and their brand and do things that are
(23:23):
a little bit different, you know, can you incubate And
we're certainly looking at like potentially incubating new animation voices,
potentially some unscripted things, and we're in early stages of
what that looks like. But you can't the marketing for sure,
but also there are content opportunities that we're trying to
mine and figure out as we speak.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
Yeah, and the has Been Hotel example also goes back
to the thing I was saying about being more flexible
with your business structure because she still has her YouTube.
It's running on both Amazon and YouTube because that was
a part of her creation and strategy. And for Amazon
to take on a show and still allow it to live,
(24:05):
you know that. That's again it's like the strict rules
of exclusivity, the strict rules of who's a creator, the gatekeepers,
like all of those are sort of tumbling in such
a wonderful way, I think, and hopefully informing each other.
I think there will be many more examples to come
in the has.
Speaker 5 (24:21):
Been Amazon knocked it out of the park.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
Yeah, it's an awesome show.
Speaker 4 (24:25):
I'd add one thing from a studio perspective, which is
it's enabled in addition to marketing and looking for new talent,
it's it's given us an opportunity through marketing to support
our platform partners in a way because we have all
of our portfolio shows up there and that also supports
what we're doing with our platform partners, which was a
(24:46):
unique entry today.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
The broad theme here is make it available wherever somebody
might find it, wherever somebody might search for it. You know,
I think we're all we all have to remember we're
all professionals in this business. But it really does seem
like navigat is a challenge.
Speaker 8 (25:02):
They're not always the same audiences that people that watch
on NBC are different audience that are watching on Peacock
are a different audience that may be watching it on
Netflix if it's you know, the studio has sold it
there and you find it. Sometimes you think it's going
to be cannibalized or you're going to somehow fragment the audience,
(25:23):
but it always aggregates it and you end up reaching
more people, which is not something that I expected. But
when you look at it, you're like, oh, we're getting
more people and different people to enjoy the.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Show, and it must be exciting to see, like different
demographics pop apps in different in different forums. In our
waning eight minutes where I wanted to talk about on
another fun topic, ip and IP management, all of you,
in varying degrees have different archives that you can go to.
And we've all seen incredible creative work done about taking
a character from this, a theme from that, a cliffhanger
(25:58):
from this show. Twenty years, we've seen it work really well.
We've seen a lot.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Not work very well.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Given all that we've talked about with portfolio and experimentation.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
I mean, you have a one.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
Hundred years of NBC and Universal Sony is also one
hundred years.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
It was a big centennial the last couple of years.
It's been a lot of sentence.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
Warner Brothers too, the bit Sam Harry jack abe By
pride myself on knowing the four Warner brothers.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
But seriously, again a jump ball to end us here.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
IP management strategies, how do you think about the wealth
that you have in your archive stars as a younger channel,
but you all have done amazing three D chess with
the Power Universe and building that out and as well
as Outlander, how are you thinking about that differently or
strategically in.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Kind of the new new era for streaming.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
It's the show, you know, like it's it's honestly, you
can have the most incredible IP in the world, but
you have to make it satisfying apart from that IP
as a television show. So I think we think about
it as what are the values of this piece of IP,
and what are the values we have to keep, and
then what's the show? How do we then make that
(27:07):
into a television show. And we're lucky to have some
incredible PlayStation games. We have Twisted Metal at Peacock, and
as I said, we're doing God of War and we have.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
The Last of Us at HBO.
Speaker 3 (27:18):
It's all amazing to have that leg up where you
have an incredible group of characters, tone storytelling, but you
got to stick the landing on your own show. IP
does not equal a hit, and I think a lot
of us have been involved in things that did not
work out and you kind of felt it, And so
(27:41):
I think there's a pressure of wanting to live up
to the quality of the original. You have to feel
that pressure, and you have to really understand that these
fans are not looking for a shot by shot remake.
They're looking to expand the world and to expand their
relationship to these characters that they love, whether it's a
book or an old show or a game or whatever
(28:03):
it may be. So it's actually very challenging it's probably
more challenging than doing an original. You can't hide behind it,
but it's also you know, it's a gift ultimately. I mean,
the Last of Us game is beautiful and the show
is beautiful, and that's what you strive for.
Speaker 4 (28:18):
You know, we have a very rich, obviously library. I
think we're protective of it because what you really want
to hear is what Catherine saying is what's the reinvention,
what's the modern what's the contemporary reason for telling that story?
One of my favorites, you know, we obviously did Penguin
and we're doing Peacemaker, but one of my favorite examples
is our Big Bang a Verse because you've got this
(28:41):
multi camera comedy that launched on CBS, followed by a
single camera comedy in Young Sheldon, followed by a multi
camera comedy Georgie and Mandy, and now we're about to
do a single camera called Stuart Fails to Save the Universe. So,
I mean, Chuck's been very creative about what he's done
with that piece ip, which is extraordinary because it's not
(29:02):
where you'd expect it to go, and I think that's
what's made it so interesting. And each one of them
is so fresh. It's such a fresh take on that
same story or that those same characters exception.
Speaker 7 (29:12):
I think what we're all saying is, and this is
what I feel like it comes down to, over and
over again, is the voice and what is.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
A writer a creator.
Speaker 7 (29:23):
Burning to say? And Catherine and I are sharing the
fifth and final season of The Boys, and what Eric
Kripke has done from the beginning of that show to
where we've seen the final episode of that show is relevatory.
I mean it's he had so much to say, he
(29:45):
was so clear about what it was, and honestly, at
the core is characters. I don't know how many Boys
fans we have here.
Speaker 5 (29:53):
But that you wouldn't think I love it.
Speaker 7 (29:56):
I don't think I'm the demo exactly for it, but
but I was the last couple of episodes, I truly
was shedding tears because inside of thematically what he wanted
to say. The key to all storytelling is that you
care about these characters. You are invested in what happens
(30:18):
to them. And I found in just a pretty overwhelming
way how invested I was in the stories, and season
by season, Eric had thematically things that he wanted to
explore his own relationship with his father, aging what that means,
and that really comes through on top of all the
(30:40):
insanity in that show, at its core, it's really saying something. Obviously,
it's saying a lot about our world and maybe our country.
But at the end of the day, I was so
invested in those characters.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
I thought it was interesting.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
I think Catherine said like sometimes a show based on
IP can be harder than an original. I want to
wrap up with a question for Lisa about you all have.
I mean, you have the mother of television franchises in
Law and Order, and I was watching last night. You've
got an incredible crossover coming. Ye, you've got the Chicago universe.
Can you talk about how you have been able to
keep that fresh and keep new iterations coming.
Speaker 8 (31:16):
Absolutely, I think again starting with Dick Wolf and with
what the fans like, and then when I came, we
had Sview was there. Then we brought back Law and Order,
and then continuing to cross those over and return to
the relationships, whether it be Olivia and Stabler or Benson
(31:37):
and Stabler, or the crossovers that dictas. I think finding
ways to really refresh with casting, with storylines, with crossovers
with big events and keep them relevant and keep them
something that is must see TV, and then people fall
in love with the characters. People are very invested in
the storylines, and it gives you the opportunity to spin
(31:58):
them off or do different versions. So it's like working
with this amazing group of people that can go in
so many different directions.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
I have more questions, but our time is short. I
am so grateful everybody for this conversation.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
Truly.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
I hope you've been taking notes because these are top
folks giving insights.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Thank you. Thanks for listening.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
Be sure to leave us a review at the podcast
platform of your choice. Please go to Variety dot com
and sign up for the free weekly Strictly Business newsletter,
and don't forget to tune in next week for another
episode of Strictly Business.
Welcome to Strictly Business, Variety's weekly podcast featuring conversations with
industry leaders about the business of media and entertainment. I'm
Cynthia Lyttleton, co editor in chief of Variety Today. My
guests are definitely industry leaders in TV. On September twenty fifth,
Variety hosted its annual Entertainment and Technology Summit in Los Angeles.
(00:21):
It kicked off with the panel that I moderated, featuring
six senior executives chopping it up on the latest ships
and streaming strategies, the rise of YouTube, and savvy IP
management skills. The session features Alison Hoffman of Stars, Lisa
Katz of NBC Universal, Laura Lancaster of Amazon MGM Studios,
(00:42):
Brett Paul of Warner Brothers Television Group, Katherine Pope of
Sony Pictures Television, and Michael Thorne of Fox Entertainment. This
panel was the strong cup of coffee that sum at
attendees needed to get the day off to a productive start.
It was truly standing room only at the event all day.
(01:02):
For that, Variety extends its extreme gratitude to all of
our speakers and all of our attendees. Here's the panel.
Good morning, everyone, Thank you so much for coming bright
and early and filling this room. We are so stoked
to be here. Thank you to our panelist. I'll look
at all these high achievers getting here. First thing in
the morning. We are going to sort out streaming. We're
(01:25):
gonna fix it. We're gonna fix all the monetization. We
got here in forty minutes. This is a great panel
because these folks all have had a lot of experience
getting through you know, difficult times, sometimes from the different
sides of the table, from different sides of the networker studio.
And right now, all that experience, all that camaraderie and
goodwill is more important than ever because you know, we
(01:46):
keep saying it, but it keeps being true that the
industry is turning itself inside out in terms of business models, exhibition.
We gave you a little bit of homework in terms
of things to talk about, but I throw it out
to you in terms of in the last say, twelve months,
how would you say the honed focus on streaming across
the industry is changing your business and the way you work.
(02:09):
I throw it out to anybody as a jump ball. Catherine,
you're nodding your heady.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Sure, I'll jump in.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
I think that we are on the other side of PEAKTV,
as everyone acknowledges, and I think the biggest change I've
seen in the last year and a half is the
focus on budgets and timelines, and I think that's been
a positive for the industry.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
I think we.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Want to make more show, more episodes, more seasons, more
shows for our fans. So I think that focusing in
on a portfolio of you've got your giant shows, you've
got your midside shows, and then you've got your shows
that can be calendared and repeatable and the audience can
really respond to. I think that's been a big change.
(02:56):
I think the pit is very much a leader in
that and that we all were rooting for because it
kind of returns to what TV does best, which is
the novelization art form. And so I think, you know,
just not having rules of this is a streaming show,
but acknowledging that streaming is television is novelization storytelling has
(03:21):
been I think the biggest change.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Thank you, Catherine, And while I was so busy telling
everybody how these folks have worked together, I forgot to
introduce the Catherine Pope, President of Sony Pictures TV.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Thank you for taking that jump ball.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Right next to me here Brett Paul, President of Warner
Brothers Television Group. Next to Brett is Laura Lancaster, head
of co production and ongoing Series for Amazon MGM Studios.
Next to Laura is Alison Hoffman, President of Stars Networks.
Next to Katherine is Michael Thorn, President of Fox Television Networks.
And next to Michael is Lisa Katz, President of scripted
(03:53):
Content for NBC Universal Entertainment's okay, you've all had a
few more minutes to.
Speaker 4 (03:57):
Think now, I would jump in base on the handoff
from Catherine regarding the pit which we're incredibly proud of obviously, as.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
You should be congratulations.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
I mean it, you know, yielded five Emmy Awards and
we couldn't be happier. I mean, the thing about that
show was, you know, Scott Gemmel and Noah Wiley and
John Wells really set out to do something that really
hadn't been done yet in that it sort of ripped
some ideas from broadcast in that it was fifteen episodes,
(04:28):
which enables viewers to really dig into the characters a
little bit more. It allows for co viewing as there's
weekly drops. But also it's not going to be on
a year cadence, which is sort of a broadcast norm
but really hasn't been done in streaming very often, even
with fewer episodes. But what it did was it sort
of reinvented a medical genre because it stripped it all
(04:49):
down and it elevated the form and made it possible
for it to work in streaming. You know, we're doing
other medical show and there's other medical shows. I know
some people appearable to talk about them. We have Lisa
and I have It's okay to say Doc, Doc, We'll.
Speaker 5 (05:04):
Get to that.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
We'll get to that.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
But no, but it's true.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
You'll get a cheer from two of the folks because
Doc is a Sony show for Fox.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Television right match later, Yeah, that's right, but Molly Parker
and it's really good, just as like the Pit.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
But what's interesting about and that's right? And Warner Brothers
is producing brilliant Minds. It's also going into its second
season for ENDC. But all of them are interesting in
that you have two that are broadcast, you have one
that's streaming. They're reinventions of a medical genre theme. They
all have different entry points and they all stand distinctly alone.
(05:38):
So in my mind, the takeaway from this is, if
you have a quality show, it can play anywhere. I think,
you know, audiences have come to expect a certain elevated
idea from streaming and so stripping away some of the
music cues and some of you know, you saw some
things that you may not see on broadcast television. But
(05:59):
I think that's what may the pit stand out. It
was it was sort of a love letter to er
workers in an er that you know very much.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
So yeah, and as you say, the strip awayness really
just you just felt like you were in that world
and that feeling of like you can't escape the blood,
the guts, the gore, the drama is it's really.
Speaker 4 (06:18):
It puts you, It puts you in the center of it.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
But it is I think you raise an interesting point. Obviously,
the new normal for streaming became eight episodes, ten episodes.
All of you have come up, We've all come up
in a world where the goal had been, you know,
as many seasons as you can, and in success shows
did twenty four, yes, twenty six.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
I remember the days of Fox and.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
They would squeeze, you know, twenty eight out of nine
oh two one oh when it was when it was working.
I would love if people would respond to Brett and
I think basically it is, you know, people in television
want renewable resources. They the limited series that was eight
episodes and costs nine figures, Like, that's a tough business
right now. Would you say, Michael, would you say, like
(06:59):
the move toward you're doing that a little bit.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Also with Doc, if I'm honest, I.
Speaker 5 (07:03):
Think what the best approach is to look at each
show individually and look at how do you tell the
best story. Some series can be done in twenty two
episodes on Doc, which was a breakout success for Catherine
and I the season and so we're very proud of it.
(07:24):
And we looked each other in the eye and said,
this show could do twenty two episodes.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
And remember those days and.
Speaker 5 (07:32):
Yes, and we along with Barbie and Hank, the creators
of the show, we were like, you know, we know
medical shows can do twenty two episodes and be great,
and so we held hands to go back in time
and it's going really well. So but other shows that
we do, we have a show actually with Warner Brothers,
a new series that's premier and called Memory of a Killer.
(07:54):
It's heavily serialized, it's about a very flawed character, and
that show is best told in probably ten to twelve
episodes a season because of the point of view of
the creators in that story. And I think at least
our approach is look at each show and what's the
(08:17):
best way to tell that story, and then looking at it,
like as Catherine was getting it, how do you make
the best show at the best budget possible. That doesn't
mean every show is inexpensive.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
It just means how do.
Speaker 5 (08:31):
You make it a how do you tell the best story?
And then still remember it's a business, And that tension
right now is something that I think we're all dealing with.
Speaker 6 (08:41):
The Other advantage of long seasons is that it's so
easy to disconnect in the streaming world.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
And so if you have a show, I mean actually
say I'm going to quit.
Speaker 6 (08:51):
This service for a while, such easier than it was
twelve years ago, right.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
And you must feel that when you see that.
Speaker 5 (08:57):
Yes, so I think if.
Speaker 6 (08:58):
You can have a successful show that can reliably deliver
audience for twenty two weeks, twenty six weeks, whatever it is,
you have a retentive force in your business. We just
green lit Power Origins, the prequel to Power, which is
a huge franchise for us, for eighteen episodes. We're doing
the same thing because that is a juggernaut in terms
(09:21):
of driving engagement, in terms of driving subscribers, but also
we can look to keep that audience engaged for a
longer period of time. Now, it used to be just
so difficult to disconnect because you'd have to call your
cable company and get on the phone, and then they'd
offer you things and you were often part of the package.
And so it's like, well, I'm going to pull the
thread on this tier that I've been and do I
(09:42):
really want to do that? But now it's just all
a la carte. It's very very easy, And so I
think what you guys are doing and in success, it
also makes great business sense.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
And Laura, I'd love your perspective from the studio side
in terms of like when you hear the episode, counselor
like are you pumping your fist like this is a
good thing, or how do you all from the studio perspective?
Speaker 7 (10:04):
Same same is what I think Michael said. What everybody's
saying here is in many ways we are it is
a case by case study of what is the right
way to tell this story and for us, where we
dove into this a little bit was the summary term pretty.
And what I found fascinating about the third season of
(10:24):
the summary term pretty is not only did we expand
it to eleven episodes, but we had almost twice as
much story and content as the previous season, meaning that
all of those episodes were super sized, there were many
of them were an hour or more.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
It was eleven episodes.
Speaker 7 (10:44):
It allowed us to have a weekly experience that built
to where it built incredibly successfully, lots of engagement. And
then additionally, what we're able to do at Amazon, which
is just different and is to be able to announce
the movie and so we're able to then even expand
that storytelling into new realms that furthers the franchise and
(11:08):
the story.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Absolutely, at least there's a lot, obviously a lot going
on with NBC and very soon you are going to
have the NBA back on your air. Can you talk
about how you are looking at the portfolio programming around
that and threading your scripted efforts into that.
Speaker 4 (11:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 8 (11:24):
Absolutely, I think in thinking about when everyone was talking
it's a portfolio approach. I think it's you're looking at
each show individually and what's as Michael said, what's best
for that show, what's best for the creative, what's best
for the audience, and then at the same time you're
also looking at how that works at the larger portfolio
and for us, being an integrated portfolio that has cable streaming,
(11:49):
linear and also the studios under the same ecosystem and
under the same leadership. That enables us to put things
in different places. And I think using sports to amplify
the audience and using it to bring more people. And
there's so many different ways that we can approach it,
because we could have a twenty two episode Dick Wolf
(12:10):
Show or five of them that air, you know, next
day on Peacock, and that continues the engagement for that audience. Similarly,
you could have something like The Paper, which just premiered
in September and is going to have a run on NBC,
where we do that weekly and give the audience a chance.
So we're going the opposite way this time, that audience
(12:32):
a chance to watch it weekly more like everybody watching
it at the same time, Like the olden days when
The Office first premiered twenty years ago on NBC, and
then sometimes that doesn't make sense for a show, so
you're looking at something that's exclusively Peacock. So that might
be you know, Ted, which we're going to have season
two coming in twenty six and that was our biggest
(12:55):
original streaming show that Dirty Bear does not belong on broadcasts.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
So it feels like.
Speaker 8 (13:00):
There's everything is very intentional and specific to where we
can expose it to as many people, but also make
sure we're exposing it to the right people and it's
not one size fits all, and using all of the
different assets in the portfolio and sports and live events
to amplify and to get as many people to watch
(13:22):
the shows.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
I think that's a huge change from a couple of
years ago, and whether it's Amazon or Stars or you know,
Fox or Peacock, like the ability and desire to try things,
try different ways to premiere, different ways to roll out.
I mean, like Laura is saying, going from a you know,
(13:43):
seasons of a TV show into a movie, there's just
so much more flexibility and how we're getting the word out.
I think like picking up multiple season stars, picked up
season two of the Outlanders spinoff Blood of My Blood
before season one premiered. We're doing sixteen upisodes of God
of War for Amazon like actually kind of flexing the
(14:04):
muscles that they have as platforms to benefit the shows
and to benefit not just behind the scenes with the
budget or whatever, but also to benefit how they serve
it up to their fans. Has been an enormous change,
I think one that's been so good for the shows themselves.
Getting to the actual audience.
Speaker 5 (14:23):
Yeah, I agree, I agree, there's something about one of
the changes over the past year. I think everyone is embracing.
It's actually fundamental to our business is our shared wins
and meeting audience is where they are. So for us,
it's similar in some ways to the way Lisa was
talking about, although our ecosystem is different. So for us,
(14:46):
we do the same thing where we leverage our linear
platform we get that huge broadcast audience. But then we
have our partnership with Hulu in Fox one, and so
you take a show like doc for example, and we
go all in with a very curated schedule. We put
(15:07):
all of our resources as opposed to launching ten shows
a couple and we get a really meaningful audience there,
but then it's also our biggest show on streaming and
then Sony just sold it to Netflix and so we
have season one on Netflix, number two, number two on Netflix. Yeah,
(15:27):
we'll see how we'll see watch it, just.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Watch let me ask you watch it.
Speaker 5 (15:31):
But that is like we're the spirit of that is
That's an example of I think on that show, leveraging
our our programming strengths and in the case of their
distribution strengths in the service of one show and what
we can offer. We have a food brand, the biggest
(15:52):
food brand, the biggest animation brand, and so when we
partner with Hulu or Fox one, we're able to leverage
each other's strengths. And I think you see it in
different ways with aggregation and other things like that on
other platforms. And so this idea of instead of a
walled garden that people can win together or is more
(16:14):
or is more?
Speaker 4 (16:15):
Yeah, I'd like to chime in on that time. I
actually love what you guys are saying, because you know
where you started this is there's a lot of integrated
companies and they have these ecosystems and what I'm really.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
And there's been consolidation that I think is forced a
certain focus on business.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
Priority, right, And I think what you're hearing from Michael
is that they're prioritizing the good of the show. So
you've got Catherine who's at Sony, who's licensing Fox and
Hulu runs to get the audience and bring him back
for season two, and that's going to be helped most
likely by the show's first season appearing on a completely
(16:53):
different system. Right.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
But let me ask you, Michael straight, when Captain says, Hey,
we're going to license season one Netflix, is your first reaction, Oh,
that's not my network?
Speaker 2 (17:03):
Or is there first?
Speaker 5 (17:04):
Do you want to see the emojis? Do you want
to see the emojis on our text chain?
Speaker 1 (17:09):
I mean, I think that this model was proven with
Breaking Bad was such as it was such a lift
for it.
Speaker 5 (17:15):
It's different for probably each platform in each ecosystem. What
we know is, while since we're talking about doc it
has a very it's our biggest drama, it's our biggest
new drama. We've had to rebuild our scripted programming and
Slate post Disney, and so it's show by show. When
(17:38):
you've got something that seems to really be resonating, you
put a lot of attention on it. We talk almost
every day about it, and then it's like, how do
you make it succeed on Fox on Hulu? And then
in the case of growing the audience, So if getting
an opportunity on Netflix to grow the audience and NEWPI
(18:00):
is only going to serve the show. We like to
your point about Breaking Bad, hopefully it serves season two
and getting people excited about the show to jump in
and watch. We'll see just dropped two days ago or
three days ago, and so it's you know, again, it's
step by step, but that strategy, I think we've seen
it work and we're going to continue to try different
(18:22):
things like that.
Speaker 6 (18:23):
Absolutely, Alison, Yeah, I was going to say, I think
from a network perspective, and because we are a service
being offered, we think about it as a benefit. But
you have to be very intentional about how you window
programming when you want ultimately the revenue and the subscribers
to accrue back to you. So I think with Breaking Bad,
that was a higher urgency show, so it could window
(18:46):
on Netflix and then it could drive back to AMC
because people were dying to come and see at first
wherever it was. I think as with I think everything
we're saying, it depends on the show, right. Sometimes if
it's not the right show with the right strategy, you
can sort of I would say, from the network perspective,
you can lose value and you can sort of lose.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
Your edge there, and that's got to be I mean,
that's a risky roll of the dice.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
We could keep going on, but there's a couple of
points I really want to hit. One thing we've been
reporting on all year is YouTube. We've all seen the numbers,
I mean, their growth as they are full.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
You know, they are no longer this thing you.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
Watch on your laptop or on your phone for a
few minutes watching the you know, cat videos. YouTube has
become television, not just YouTube TV the subscription platform, but
truly people are watching more YouTube on their TVs. We
saw those trend lines changed. I think it was either
late last year or early this year, and YouTube has
really been out there. I would love, especially Alison and
(19:44):
Laura for working in premium content. How do you balance
putting putting a little bit out on free because it
truly seems to me like in the last twelve months
it has become it's television, but it's also almost a utility.
I'd love people experience with experimenting in making YouTube work
for you with your with your high end, premium, very
(20:06):
expensive content.
Speaker 7 (20:08):
Congrats to YouTube first, first and foremost.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
They did not pay for this, but it really is
Oh no, no, no, it's a seismic it changed.
Speaker 7 (20:16):
I have a seventeen year old and an eighteen year old.
There's lots of YouTube happening in my house, and honestly,
it's it's I really mean that, like, congrats to them.
They're they're doing something really special. And I think for
us it is like everything, when something emerges like that,
you look at it, you how can we participate? How
(20:38):
can we how can that be part? It's part of
the ecosystem.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Now.
Speaker 7 (20:42):
I think that what we've been able to do at
Amazon is, which is one of the great things about Amazon,
there are many arms in different ways to participate with
folks and with I think mister Beast is a great
example of looking at talent that had emerged and then
finding a way to invite that talent into the Amazon
(21:02):
service and ecosystem.
Speaker 5 (21:04):
I think has been Hotel.
Speaker 7 (21:05):
You know, my partner Nick Pepper's side on the animation
side is another great example of that. So I embrace it.
I again, I admire what they're doing. And I would
also say I just I go back to summer, I
turn pretty again. It's just fascinating to me again having
young kids in my own home and watching them engage
(21:27):
in long form as well.
Speaker 6 (21:30):
I think we get excited about YouTube for a lot
of reasons. From a marketing perspective, there's no better place
to launch a trailer, there's no better place to drive eyeballs, awareness,
scene clips.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Do really well all of that. But they're also a distribution.
Speaker 6 (21:43):
Partner of ours, as it is Amazon incredible distribution partner
of ours, So we are distributed through YouTube TV. We
were one of the first to launch on primetime channels,
and so what gets really exciting I think for premium
television is you've got a great marketing platform that is
driving all of these eyeballs and all of this awareness
us and then creating the connectivity to driving subscriptions through
(22:04):
your distribution strategy. With YouTube, I think we're just at
the beginning of that, and I think to start connecting
those pipes gets really really cool for premium teleg players.
Speaker 5 (22:13):
I also think we're all in the voice business, you know,
where we're looking for new voices and who have different
points of views that can break out different programs. So
in addition to marketing, we're definitely looking at creators, maybe
more so on the unscripted side than the scripted side.
But you know, as Laura mentioned, Has Been Hotel that's
(22:35):
a show that I'm involved in the animation studio as well.
That's a show we made on Spec with A twenty four.
But the reason we made it on Spec was because
has Been Hotel existed on YouTube there were the creator
had over a million views on a pilot that she
made herself based on characters that existed before she made
(22:59):
that pilot. And so these voices are their IP and
they have an audience, and so the question is how
do you leverage their voices in a way that, just
like I was saying, we're trying to meet audiences where
they are. How do you take those voices and expand
their reach and their brand and do things that are
(23:23):
a little bit different, you know, can you incubate And
we're certainly looking at like potentially incubating new animation voices,
potentially some unscripted things, and we're in early stages of
what that looks like. But you can't the marketing for sure,
but also there are content opportunities that we're trying to
mine and figure out as we speak.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
Yeah, and the has Been Hotel example also goes back
to the thing I was saying about being more flexible
with your business structure because she still has her YouTube.
It's running on both Amazon and YouTube because that was
a part of her creation and strategy. And for Amazon
to take on a show and still allow it to live,
(24:05):
you know that. That's again it's like the strict rules
of exclusivity, the strict rules of who's a creator, the gatekeepers,
like all of those are sort of tumbling in such
a wonderful way, I think, and hopefully informing each other.
I think there will be many more examples to come
in the has.
Speaker 5 (24:21):
Been Amazon knocked it out of the park.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
Yeah, it's an awesome show.
Speaker 4 (24:25):
I'd add one thing from a studio perspective, which is
it's enabled in addition to marketing and looking for new talent,
it's it's given us an opportunity through marketing to support
our platform partners in a way because we have all
of our portfolio shows up there and that also supports
what we're doing with our platform partners, which was a
(24:46):
unique entry today.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
The broad theme here is make it available wherever somebody
might find it, wherever somebody might search for it. You know,
I think we're all we all have to remember we're
all professionals in this business. But it really does seem
like navigat is a challenge.
Speaker 8 (25:02):
They're not always the same audiences that people that watch
on NBC are different audience that are watching on Peacock
are a different audience that may be watching it on
Netflix if it's you know, the studio has sold it
there and you find it. Sometimes you think it's going
to be cannibalized or you're going to somehow fragment the audience,
(25:23):
but it always aggregates it and you end up reaching
more people, which is not something that I expected. But
when you look at it, you're like, oh, we're getting
more people and different people to enjoy the.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Show, and it must be exciting to see, like different
demographics pop apps in different in different forums. In our
waning eight minutes where I wanted to talk about on
another fun topic, ip and IP management, all of you,
in varying degrees have different archives that you can go to.
And we've all seen incredible creative work done about taking
a character from this, a theme from that, a cliffhanger
(25:58):
from this show. Twenty years, we've seen it work really well.
We've seen a lot.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Not work very well.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Given all that we've talked about with portfolio and experimentation.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
I mean, you have a one.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
Hundred years of NBC and Universal Sony is also one
hundred years.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
It was a big centennial the last couple of years.
It's been a lot of sentence.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
Warner Brothers too, the bit Sam Harry jack abe By
pride myself on knowing the four Warner brothers.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
But seriously, again a jump ball to end us here.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
IP management strategies, how do you think about the wealth
that you have in your archive stars as a younger channel,
but you all have done amazing three D chess with
the Power Universe and building that out and as well
as Outlander, how are you thinking about that differently or
strategically in.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Kind of the new new era for streaming.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
It's the show, you know, like it's it's honestly, you
can have the most incredible IP in the world, but
you have to make it satisfying apart from that IP
as a television show. So I think we think about
it as what are the values of this piece of IP,
and what are the values we have to keep, and
then what's the show? How do we then make that
(27:07):
into a television show. And we're lucky to have some
incredible PlayStation games. We have Twisted Metal at Peacock, and
as I said, we're doing God of War and we have.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
The Last of Us at HBO.
Speaker 3 (27:18):
It's all amazing to have that leg up where you
have an incredible group of characters, tone storytelling, but you
got to stick the landing on your own show. IP
does not equal a hit, and I think a lot
of us have been involved in things that did not
work out and you kind of felt it, And so
(27:41):
I think there's a pressure of wanting to live up
to the quality of the original. You have to feel
that pressure, and you have to really understand that these
fans are not looking for a shot by shot remake.
They're looking to expand the world and to expand their
relationship to these characters that they love, whether it's a
book or an old show or a game or whatever
(28:03):
it may be. So it's actually very challenging it's probably
more challenging than doing an original. You can't hide behind it,
but it's also you know, it's a gift ultimately. I mean,
the Last of Us game is beautiful and the show
is beautiful, and that's what you strive for.
Speaker 4 (28:18):
You know, we have a very rich, obviously library. I
think we're protective of it because what you really want
to hear is what Catherine saying is what's the reinvention,
what's the modern what's the contemporary reason for telling that story?
One of my favorites, you know, we obviously did Penguin
and we're doing Peacemaker, but one of my favorite examples
is our Big Bang a Verse because you've got this
(28:41):
multi camera comedy that launched on CBS, followed by a
single camera comedy in Young Sheldon, followed by a multi
camera comedy Georgie and Mandy, and now we're about to
do a single camera called Stuart Fails to Save the Universe. So,
I mean, Chuck's been very creative about what he's done
with that piece ip, which is extraordinary because it's not
(29:02):
where you'd expect it to go, and I think that's
what's made it so interesting. And each one of them
is so fresh. It's such a fresh take on that
same story or that those same characters exception.
Speaker 7 (29:12):
I think what we're all saying is, and this is
what I feel like it comes down to, over and
over again, is the voice and what is.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
A writer a creator.
Speaker 7 (29:23):
Burning to say? And Catherine and I are sharing the
fifth and final season of The Boys, and what Eric
Kripke has done from the beginning of that show to
where we've seen the final episode of that show is relevatory.
I mean it's he had so much to say, he
(29:45):
was so clear about what it was, and honestly, at
the core is characters. I don't know how many Boys
fans we have here.
Speaker 5 (29:53):
But that you wouldn't think I love it.
Speaker 7 (29:56):
I don't think I'm the demo exactly for it, but
but I was the last couple of episodes, I truly
was shedding tears because inside of thematically what he wanted
to say. The key to all storytelling is that you
care about these characters. You are invested in what happens
(30:18):
to them. And I found in just a pretty overwhelming
way how invested I was in the stories, and season
by season, Eric had thematically things that he wanted to
explore his own relationship with his father, aging what that means,
and that really comes through on top of all the
(30:40):
insanity in that show, at its core, it's really saying something. Obviously,
it's saying a lot about our world and maybe our country.
But at the end of the day, I was so
invested in those characters.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
I thought it was interesting.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
I think Catherine said like sometimes a show based on
IP can be harder than an original. I want to
wrap up with a question for Lisa about you all have.
I mean, you have the mother of television franchises in
Law and Order, and I was watching last night. You've
got an incredible crossover coming. Ye, you've got the Chicago universe.
Can you talk about how you have been able to
keep that fresh and keep new iterations coming.
Speaker 8 (31:16):
Absolutely, I think again starting with Dick Wolf and with
what the fans like, and then when I came, we
had Sview was there. Then we brought back Law and Order,
and then continuing to cross those over and return to
the relationships, whether it be Olivia and Stabler or Benson
(31:37):
and Stabler, or the crossovers that dictas. I think finding
ways to really refresh with casting, with storylines, with crossovers
with big events and keep them relevant and keep them
something that is must see TV, and then people fall
in love with the characters. People are very invested in
the storylines, and it gives you the opportunity to spin
(31:58):
them off or do different versions. So it's like working
with this amazing group of people that can go in
so many different directions.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
I have more questions, but our time is short. I
am so grateful everybody for this conversation.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
Truly.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
I hope you've been taking notes because these are top
folks giving insights.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Thank you. Thanks for listening.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
Be sure to leave us a review at the podcast
platform of your choice. Please go to Variety dot com
and sign up for the free weekly Strictly Business newsletter,
and don't forget to tune in next week for another
episode of Strictly Business.
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