November 29, 2011 • 28 mins
Chuck and Josh take a stab at answering the age old question of whether cash or plastic is the best choice for paying your way through life. Join them as they look at shopping, theft, security and the heartbreak of overdraft fees in this episode.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera.
It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff You Should Know
from House Stuff Works dot Com. Hey, and welcome to
the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant. Uh,
(00:20):
and we are coming at you the Stuff you Should Know. Yeah,
this is a public service edition. We do a few
of these every now and then. Yeah, we want to
make sure that you consumers out there are well taken
care of, and we feel like we're the guys to
do it, us and Clark Howard at least right now. Actually,
(00:41):
I want to go ahead and issue a c o
A that you mean demanded I issue. Uh. I am
in no way, shape or form qualified to give anyone
financial advice of any type whatsoever because you don't understand
it or you're just not good with I'm I just
I don't know enough about it. I'm just a caveman.
(01:03):
Your were frightens and confuses me. But this is pretty
straight up cash credit or debit. Plus there's also the
the the clincher at the end where I say, hey, man,
do what you want. Well, that's true, So there you go.
At the Yeah, spoiler. At the end of the day,
It's depends on the context. Sometimes cash is great, sometimes
(01:24):
credits great. Sometimes debit's great. Although I went back and
read this and I'm like, I clearly favor personally debit cards.
I just think they're better. Yeah, but we'll we'll get
into this. Let me I have an actual news topic
intro this time. So there is a lady named Lorie Black.
She's thirty two. She lives in Auburn, Massachusetts. Okay, I
(01:48):
don't know where that is. Plbert Hodgman does. Yeah. Probably
as a matter of fact, let's bring him in to answer, John,
come on in, have a seat. Not so, No, he's
not here. Okay, Well, anyway, we'll find out some other time.
Where Auburn, Massachusetts, half of already has just went sweet
and half of them went no. Um. Lori Black is
(02:09):
a thirty two year old unemployed or out of work
preschool teacher from Auburn, Massachusetts, and she also has the
unlikely credit of having fifteen black Fridays under a belt.
That's where the blimp attacks is Super Bowl. She's got
fifteen of those under her belt, and her whole thing
(02:30):
is that she can't afford to do this herself. But
she is such a junkie for this kind of thing
that she's come up with a great way to get
in the game, get in the Black Friday game and
not break her record, um and make a little bit
of cash. And that is to be a Black Friday mercenary.
So hold on, let me get this straight. You're saying
(02:52):
that she has attended that many like Walmart openings or whatever.
You're not openings, but the shopping experience, the kind where
like she's the kind where you camp outside and and
I thought about this, I'm like, well, I mean a
lot of people like to do that. And I didn't
realize in this This article from um daily Finance dot
(03:12):
com points out that she lives in Massachusetts, and when
Black Friday comes around in Massachusetts, you are for freason
if you're camping outside waiting for a store to open.
So what she's saying is like, I'll go stand in
for you. I will go through the elbows, I will
go I will bring my stiletto, and um, I will
get you those deals that you want. You stay at
home and stay toasty. And she's also figured out that
(03:36):
nursing home patients who love Black Friday deals. Um will
probably be her biggest clientele. You stay in bed shut ends. No,
she's not praying on shut and she's offering a valuable
service for of the total value of the purchases she
makes for your stuff. Even yeah, I thought she just
held and she goes shopping for you. She does everything.
(03:59):
She's by Friday mercenary. So if you want to hire
Lori Black, you can find a Craigslist add that she posted.
I guess look for first, go to Google maps or
Yahoo Maps or whoever maps and look up Auburn, Massachusetts
and find the closest big city, and then go to
Craigslist and go to that big cities. I don't know
what posting, but you'll find it. I'm kind of curious
(04:22):
about does she take on more than one person? I
wonder is there a guarantee of how much they need
to spend? Because if she's doing all this for a
hundred bucks, then no, I don't think she'd do it
for a hundred bucks, although she may be such a
lover of Black Friday that hey might as well. So
she's crazy, is what you're saying. I think she's a
she's an eccentric person, but not really crazy. I'm sure
(04:42):
she's very nice. Fifteen Black Friday sixteen. Here's pulling for
Lorie Black to make that to to keep her streak unbroken.
You're rooting for Yeah. So my big question is is
if you're Lorie Black and you are using your own
money that people are going to pay you for in return,
what's the best thing you can use while you are
(05:04):
standing outside of Black Friday Target midnight. Well that depends,
so let's get into it. Uh, there are advantages to each,
their disadvantages to each, Josh, and we'll go over those
right now. Cash is anonymous. Yeah, if we're a drug dealer, Yeah,
some people like the fact that you're not. Your purchases
(05:26):
aren't being tracked if you use cash. Um. In my family,
we like that our purchases are tracked because then you
can look at your budget each month and say, this
is where we're spending this, this is where we're spending this.
You can still do that with cash, but that means
you have to be You gotta keep up with all
that stuff yourself instead of having your bank account program
(05:46):
doing it for you. It's true. Um. There's also there's
also a proof of ownership that cash in no way,
shape or form has That's right, Remember and die hard
with the German terrorists, where after was um unmarked bearer
bonds same as cash. They weren't terrorists, they were common thieves. No,
(06:09):
they were exceptional thieves. Right, that's exactly right in the
Nakatomy building which is in Century City. So yeah, if
your cast is gone, your cast is gone. Right, proof
of ownership your your face sometimes is on the credit card,
your names on the credit card. You've signed the credit
card and debit card. They ask you to show proof
of I D. Many times. Yes, you don't have to
(06:30):
sign the credit card. By the way, is that right? Um?
You if you sign it and you give somebody your
credit card, you can be like you and I both
know that I don't have to show you a photo
I D. If my signature is on the back, if
I've endorsed this credit card, that's good enough by law. Pal.
But I never signed the back of my credit I
put C I D in sharpie, not the letter C,
(06:53):
the words C S E E I D. And do
they do that most of the time. It's definitely picked up.
Since the risk question started, I've noticed people did not
do it. And now they do, and every time they do,
I go, thank you for asking. Well, Plus it's ridiculous
because you go to sign that stupid little thing with
a ballpoint pin. It looks nothing like your signature because
(07:13):
you're trying to squeeze it in on this little slippery,
smudgy smudgy. And then the other thing, though, is signatures
these days are usually I guess at a restaurant, you
still sign a thing, but a lot of times now
you're signing that stupid Jeopardy pad. So I don't even
sign my name anymore. I just scratch something, yeah, because
I mean, I can't sign my name. It looks like
(07:34):
I'm like three years old. Yeah. My my signature is
sometimes good, sometimes not. But the point is, if you
sign the back of it right, somebody can practice what
it looks like on the bat, make that signatures to
feel like just compared to signatures. That's what it's there for.
But Josh, you are protected nonetheless under the Fair Credit
Building Act. If you lose your credit card, you only
(07:59):
have to pay for up to fifty worth of the fraud. Yes, uh,
if you lose or get your debit cards stolen, the
Electronic Fund Transfer Act covers you same deal fifty bucks
as long as you report it stolen within two days
of noticing it was noticing it was gone, and then
it jumps up to five bucks that you're liable for.
(08:20):
It's not like they say, well, you gotta pay for
everything and thank you big government for that. Yeah seriously, Well,
I mean that's one time it works. Yeah, well there's
there's another time. We'll get to it. Okay. Um, so
you've got you have anonymity with cash, but you have
a lack of security. Yes, you have security with plastic,
(08:40):
both debit and credit, but you don't have any anonymity.
They whoever they are, they can track your purchases. They
definitely can, and they is usually law enforcement. And I
guess if you if you go to the security UH
aspect of it. Credit cards and debit cards, Um, well,
debit cards have a leg up over credit cards because
(09:02):
of your pen which is like it's like a signature
in numbers that only you know or only you should know,
and so they probably don't even ask to see your
card if you use your debit card and you enter
your PIN number, because they just assume that's you. You
know your pin, you're not gonna steal a wallet and
just get the debit card right the first time out,
(09:25):
so they do you have it? But I have a question,
and maybe someone knows this, why don't credit cards have pens? Now?
I don't know that. I wonder why it would seem
to be just one extra added layer. You're swiping it
just like a debit card. So I don't know. I'm
wondering that I have no idea, right, maybe somebody knows
(09:45):
out there in the finance world. Uh. Cash and debit
have the other advantages advantage which is a lack of fees.
When you buy someone with the credit card, unless it's
an American Express, which have to pay off each month,
you are charged financing fees. And if you take a
hit and your light on your bills, those fees are
(10:06):
going to increase and increase to ungodly levels at times,
you know percent you might be paying well. The average
interest rate as of this week in the United States
for credit card is fourteen that's this week. That is
so much money. Um. The average debt that Americans with
(10:30):
credit cards carry is sixteen thousand, six d and thirty five.
That's not home debt. But it's not just credit card debt.
The credit average credit card debt is between right now
in the United States, for credit card holders, that's their
credit average credit card debt. So yeah, man, if you
get bumped up a few points, you're gonna feel it.
(10:52):
And especially if you're just making minimum payments and then
going out and buying more stuff and paying just a
little bit off but you're adding more to it. Well,
it's not very hard to do the math. You might
as well put your own caller on. And if you're
young and fairly naive about finance, you know what a
minimum payment is. That means you're just paying the finance charges.
(11:14):
Well you say that if you're young, But get this.
I saw a stat that showed that most credit card
holders were wait of credit card holders under like age
thirty pay off their monthly balance, which is more than
the adults. So you got to leave it to the kids.
(11:35):
You do something right this time for once in your life.
Do you know what we what kind of balance we
carry zip? Really that's pretty great. We didn't used to,
but we got to a point where we were looking
at finance charges and we just couldn't live like that anymore.
It's great. So every month you paid off. We use
(11:56):
American Express only because we get the sky mileage you
for everything we buy that you know where they don't
demand that you use like a debit card, and we
pay it off each month. That's great. It is. It's
a good way to live because when you start looking
at the finance fees that you're paying, like at the
end of the year, it's depressing. Like I used to
(12:16):
when I was single and living alone, I used to
just ignore that. Well, I think that's what a lot
of people doing, that's what they want. Um, you want
some more stats, Yeah, I got a lot of stets too,
but go ahead, okay, Um, the average American consumer, Chuck,
has three point five credit cards. I don't know how
you have half of credit card, but three point five
(12:39):
credit cards. It seems like a lot to me. If
you live in New Hampshire, New Jersey, Josh, of the
people in that state have ten or more credit cards
and those two and that nuts. That is very nuts. Alright,
a kind of alright of Americans have a credit card
have a debit card. That is a lot of people
(13:00):
that have a credit card and a debit card. Okay,
about people do not have a credit card? At all,
and of people they have to make pay it off
every month. And listen to this. The average consumer's oldest
obligation is fourteen years old. So that means obligation means
you've got something sitting on there from fourteen years ago.
(13:22):
I thought they had to stop reporting after seven years.
Well no, I mean if it's on your oh like
credit like stuff you bought that you're still paying off.
It is up to fourteen years old for the average person. Yeah,
the average oldest obligation. So that trip to Europe you
took in nineteen whatever, fifteen years ago, you might still
be paying off. That's crazy there, consumer, And that's when
(13:48):
I was in Europe. Actually, consumer debt December thirty one,
two thousand ten, all consumer debt in America, I can
almost I Alan can't say it. Eleven point four trillion dollars.
That's how much America owes. That's how much the American
people owe, not the government, that's how much the just
(14:09):
the regular old Joe's though. All right, So that was that, Yeah,
it was, But these are good stats. People need to
know the stag Are you going with stats? Still? Uh? No,
I'm done? All right, So where are we let's let's
recap here. Cash is good, but you lose it easy, right,
and if you lose it or its stolen it, you're
almost That's what I meant to say, likely to not
(14:32):
get it back, not that you lose it easy. Um.
Debit cards are good because they offer protection from the
federal government. They got a pin, you gotta pin. Credit
cards offer the same protection. They don't have a pin, right.
They charge fees, interest financing fees, yes, and sometimes membership fees,
and debit cards now again have a higher leg up
(14:56):
as it stands. Right. The second against credit cards because
the were draft fees that used to just kill people
are now illegal unless you opt in. Oh yeah, they
remember there was the Card Act, so as of I
think August two, you had to officially opt in with
your bank to say I want overdraft protection and therefore
(15:19):
you can charge me over draft fees. Sure, which at
one point in my life I loved overdraft protection because
I was right and check my butt get in cash,
and I didn't mind paying those fees. Oh dude, those
fees are crippling. Yeah, But if you know, if you
were me in nineteen in the mid nineties, you like
those fees, I got you because you could just stay afloat,
(15:40):
and that's what it was all about for me back then.
Or you could just you know, do your finances correctly true,
which I did not do. Or and I remember back
of America got in trouble for this. They always did.
They always posted from the largest amount the smallest amount,
under the idea that your smallest amount, there were more
(16:02):
of your smallest amounts, so that when they started hitting
you could get more and more overdraft fees. Right, the largest,
the smallest or smallest the largest, whichever way you get
hit with the more overdraft fees. That's the way that
they always post. We could screen the most. Yeah, without
any regard to chronology whatsoever. It was. However, however, many
(16:24):
overdraft fees. They got in trouble for that and correct
and corrected it. Yes, that's what led to this correction.
That is UH debit cards are generally fee free. Your
bank most likely has as a fee free debit card. Um,
if you're getting cash out of the a t M
at your own bank, you're probably not gonna be paying
any fees there. So that's always nice to save on
(16:45):
your fees. Unless well, that was another Bank of America thing.
Remember very recently they said they were going to charge
five bucks to use their debit cards five bucks a month,
and Occupy Wall Street was like what and they rolled
that back to they did. Apparently a bunch of other
banks rolled it back except Wells Fargo still has it
outstanding there they're apparently going to go ahead with their
five dollar fee. So interstand another point that we should consider, Josh.
(17:11):
If you have a problem, if you have a shopping problem,
then cash is your best friend. Because there's, uh, there's
a thing and they even called it the pain of paying,
which is when you take cash out of your wallet
or purse, pocketbook and hand it to somebody. It's a
very visceral, real feeling that you see the money leave
your hand and go to someone else and it's gone forever.
(17:33):
Obviously debit and credit cards that it just exists in
the ether. You may get paid electronically, you may and
you could live your life without seeing a single dollar
bill very easily these days, pay your bills remotely, don't
have to write checks. You can do it all on
the on the internet now, So that makes it pretty
easy for a shopoholic to rack up some debt without
realizing it or not, Yeah, without realizing it. Right, it
(17:56):
takes away it makes money less transparent. Um like Social Security. Uh,
there's no longer social Security checks. It's all electronic, which
I don't think it's a scam. I think it's a
money saving effort because people would move in with their
old neighbor and check their mail every day, right right,
you know who did that? Or just check their mail
(18:18):
every day, not even moving. Um, there's a there's a
whole there's a school of thought which is pretty rational
and reasonable that there's not gonna be paper money that
much longer because of stuff like that, big sweeping moves
like this. Um, I don't know if about that. Well,
there's paper money. Paper dollars are under assault right now.
(18:38):
You remember the super Committee with the deficit reduction plan
that their tax was coming up with. They have suggested
phasing out dollar bills entirely and replacing them with dollar coins,
right Okay, and um I beat down on that. Well,
it would save like fivety six billion dollars over thirty
years and dropping the bucket, like, what's the savings coming? Printing?
(19:02):
So it costs more to print a dollar coin than
it does to print a dollar bill, but dollar coins
um average circulation life is three times longer, so ultimately
it costs less over the thirty years of the dollar
coins lifespan. The coin is more hardy. Yes, but you're
gonna run into a company called the Crane and Co
out of Massachusetts who has a friend named John Kerry
(19:24):
who's on the super committee. And Craning Company are the
ones who make the special paper four dollar bills, and
they're like, no, no no, no, we can't write this. So
you're always going to run into those guys. Another final
um nod to to credit cards is uh, like I mentioned,
I get sky miles on my m X Delta. So
a lot of these programs offer rewards, whether it's towards
(19:46):
sky miles or vacation points, hotel points, cash back. I
think Discover actually write to check every year, don't they?
As far as you know, still do that. And uh,
you're not gonna get that with the debit card or cash,
so that's important to you. Um. There was also one
that I left out. I left that out of this article,
but I also left out did you generally, whether you
(20:08):
like it or not? I was wondering why you're making
such fun of it. To me, You're like, I'm sitting
right here, um whether you whether you like it or not,
it's pretty It's a reality of this moment in history
that you need a credit history of some sort to
get a car or house or do any large purchase,
and you can't build one with a debit card or
(20:30):
with cash. So if you can responsibly use a credit card, uh,
you can generate a credit history. And that is a
huge advantage that a credit card gives you over anything else.
And I also wanted to say, I think it kind
of slipped by. I'm not saying that the onus is
is completely on banks to not um rape and pillage.
(20:52):
I think that the onus is on the individual consumer
as well to keep your checkbook balanced and do not
rely on overdraft the to you know, really take a
look at where your money is going, basically to be
like Chuck is now you know, actually Chuck's wife is it?
This was a great article. I was just kidding around
(21:13):
about the I don't say it now. No, it's good.
Don't say no. I think you you spell out all
the points very definitely. And one more time, is it
non to Humi? I think you should go out and
um find out for yourself, being a responsible consumer, what
works best for you cash or credit. Plus, you know,
(21:34):
it's still sometimes nice too, and it's nice to throw
down the Amex gold to pay for dinner for your friends.
But it's also nice to you know, have the big
bank roll in your pocket and and tell your friends
to go rot. Well know, you can pay in cash
and look like a like a big spender. Oh yeah,
I see what you're saying. You know, like if spending ok,
(21:56):
oh yeah, you can't do that. You the cash is
like if you pull that out, you're a walking target.
You make it rain? You gonna if you do that
kind of thing. Yeah, I can't make it rain with
a credit card, you know. You know, there's throw it
up in the air and it comes right back to
have a bad idea either way cash, credit or debit.
(22:17):
There here's the ending. Making it rain in any way,
shape or form, with any kind of form of payment,
it's a it's a bad waste of money. Only God
can make your rain. Uh. If you want to learn
more about um the hydrological cycle, or whether it's best
play pay with cash, credit, or debit, you can type
those words into the search bart how stuff works dot
(22:38):
com and that'll bring up some good stuff. And I said,
search bar. So it's time for listening round, Josh, I'm
gonna call this a freaky email. Hi, guys, my mom
was visiting my wife and I a few weeks ago,
and they were they were both going through some old
family photos in the living room. Mostly what I would
(22:59):
over here was that's on so and so, there's great aunt,
who's it? But occasionally she would mention Johnny Eck. I
remember she would mention him every once in a while
when I was younger, mostly in the context of some
worldly advice. Johnny k would say, you should never put
coffee grounds down the sink, etcetera. Anyway, they're in the
living room going through these albums when my mom uh
with my mom pointing at pictures naming people, and apparently
(23:21):
she points at one and says, there's such and such
and such and so and so and Johnny Ck the
half Man, and all of a sudden, the needle falls
off the record. My wife stopped here and they said,
who whoa, whoa, whoaa, halfman? What are you talking about.
My mom wasn't even face. She said, you know, Johnny
Eck the half Man. So, yes, you guys know Johnny Ek.
(23:42):
He was basically just a torso, literally half a man.
My mom explained that he and his brother had lived
at my grandfather's house for a while when she was
a kid, helped out around his Kitty amusement park. But
Jerry just fall in there. You might want to look
into that grand father running the train, doing odd chores
(24:02):
and stuff and just entertaining the kids. I had no
idea if my mom had mentioned it to me before.
It was so nonchalant. It never hit me until now.
My wife has a bit of a morbid curiosity for
morbid curiosities, so she started digging around. Turns out it
didn't take much digging. He was pretty famous. He's part
of the Freak show at Barnman Bailey Circus and even
(24:23):
in the movie Freaks that we've talked about. You know
Johnny K. He's he walks on his fists, that's right,
And he gained a pretty big cult following with its
resurgence in the eighties. And says Steve is related to
Johnny K. Pretty cool related or his grandfather was friends
with him. His grandfather was friends with Johnny E. Thanks
(24:45):
a lot Steve for them. That was pretty That is
very cool. What was that in relation to I believe
we mentioned freaks and the show on mortgage. Really I
don't remember which one it was. Well, thank you, Steve.
I appreciate that. It's a pretty cool story. Um and
(25:08):
more big curiosities are always interesting, definitely. Um. Also, Chuck,
we should definitely say thank you to our buddy at
Little Bit Sweets. We got our Christmas package Festivals, as
she says, we got our Festivus package. Yeah, Liz, So
I want to, um issue a proclamation. If you want
(25:30):
to experience something awesome, I strongly suggest the pecan brown
sugar brittle from Little Bit Sweets. Have you had it yet? Dude?
Is really good stuff. Everything they make is amazing and
this tops it all. This tops it all. This is
the Honeycomb candy are my favorite? Yeah, like the Hondcomb candy. Guy. Um, Yeah,
(25:52):
it's good stuff, handmade candy, Brooklyn, New York. Liz always
takes care. We're in the rotation now, which I just love. Yeah,
get two or three these packages a year, so her. Um,
and I'm hoping we hear from Mona Collingtine again. Remember
Grandma Colling Teine's and like all those big that big
thing of different cookies. Yeah, hint hint, yeah, mona, come on,
(26:14):
get it together. Um. Anyway, a little Bit Sweets is
little Bit Sweets dot com. L I D B A
B I T S W E E T S dot com,
Little bit Sweets dot com. Right, good stuff. Uh, and uh,
thank you very much to Lose for that. And also
we never said thank you to these guys. I haven't
(26:35):
watched these movies yet, but um, when we did the
exploitation film episode, uh, some listeners from the company's Scumbag
Movies were like, oh, you like exploitation films. Hum, well,
here was a bunch of free DVDs. So I have
not seen any of the movies yet, but thank you
very much for the thought and the gesture of Scumbag movies.
And we will let you guys and everybody know what
(26:57):
we thought of your scumbag movies after we watch. Yeah,
we're way behind actually on administrative detail. It's piled up.
So I think about that one every every like a
few weeks, and I never remember, and I remembered, so
I just wanted to get it out. So if you've
sent us something I'd say. Look, in the next week
or two, we'll we'll knock those out. The thank yous. Yes,
so um, let's see. If you wanted to contact us,
(27:21):
you can send us a tweet at s Y s
K podcast uh, and you can visit us on Facebook
dot com at Facebook dot com slash stuff you Should Know,
or you can send us a plan old fashion email
at Stuff Podcast at how stuff works dot com. Be
(27:43):
sure to check out our new video podcast, Stuff from
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are you
Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera.
It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff You Should Know
from House Stuff Works dot Com. Hey, and welcome to
the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant. Uh,
(00:20):
and we are coming at you the Stuff you Should Know. Yeah,
this is a public service edition. We do a few
of these every now and then. Yeah, we want to
make sure that you consumers out there are well taken
care of, and we feel like we're the guys to
do it, us and Clark Howard at least right now. Actually,
(00:41):
I want to go ahead and issue a c o
A that you mean demanded I issue. Uh. I am
in no way, shape or form qualified to give anyone
financial advice of any type whatsoever because you don't understand
it or you're just not good with I'm I just
I don't know enough about it. I'm just a caveman.
(01:03):
Your were frightens and confuses me. But this is pretty
straight up cash credit or debit. Plus there's also the
the the clincher at the end where I say, hey, man,
do what you want. Well, that's true, So there you go.
At the Yeah, spoiler. At the end of the day,
It's depends on the context. Sometimes cash is great, sometimes
(01:24):
credits great. Sometimes debit's great. Although I went back and
read this and I'm like, I clearly favor personally debit cards.
I just think they're better. Yeah, but we'll we'll get
into this. Let me I have an actual news topic
intro this time. So there is a lady named Lorie Black.
She's thirty two. She lives in Auburn, Massachusetts. Okay, I
(01:48):
don't know where that is. Plbert Hodgman does. Yeah. Probably
as a matter of fact, let's bring him in to answer, John,
come on in, have a seat. Not so, No, he's
not here. Okay, Well, anyway, we'll find out some other time.
Where Auburn, Massachusetts, half of already has just went sweet
and half of them went no. Um. Lori Black is
(02:09):
a thirty two year old unemployed or out of work
preschool teacher from Auburn, Massachusetts, and she also has the
unlikely credit of having fifteen black Fridays under a belt.
That's where the blimp attacks is Super Bowl. She's got
fifteen of those under her belt, and her whole thing
(02:30):
is that she can't afford to do this herself. But
she is such a junkie for this kind of thing
that she's come up with a great way to get
in the game, get in the Black Friday game and
not break her record, um and make a little bit
of cash. And that is to be a Black Friday mercenary.
So hold on, let me get this straight. You're saying
(02:52):
that she has attended that many like Walmart openings or whatever.
You're not openings, but the shopping experience, the kind where
like she's the kind where you camp outside and and
I thought about this, I'm like, well, I mean a
lot of people like to do that. And I didn't
realize in this This article from um daily Finance dot
(03:12):
com points out that she lives in Massachusetts, and when
Black Friday comes around in Massachusetts, you are for freason
if you're camping outside waiting for a store to open.
So what she's saying is like, I'll go stand in
for you. I will go through the elbows, I will
go I will bring my stiletto, and um, I will
get you those deals that you want. You stay at
home and stay toasty. And she's also figured out that
(03:36):
nursing home patients who love Black Friday deals. Um will
probably be her biggest clientele. You stay in bed shut ends. No,
she's not praying on shut and she's offering a valuable
service for of the total value of the purchases she
makes for your stuff. Even yeah, I thought she just
held and she goes shopping for you. She does everything.
(03:59):
She's by Friday mercenary. So if you want to hire
Lori Black, you can find a Craigslist add that she posted.
I guess look for first, go to Google maps or
Yahoo Maps or whoever maps and look up Auburn, Massachusetts
and find the closest big city, and then go to
Craigslist and go to that big cities. I don't know
what posting, but you'll find it. I'm kind of curious
(04:22):
about does she take on more than one person? I
wonder is there a guarantee of how much they need
to spend? Because if she's doing all this for a
hundred bucks, then no, I don't think she'd do it
for a hundred bucks, although she may be such a
lover of Black Friday that hey might as well. So
she's crazy, is what you're saying. I think she's a
she's an eccentric person, but not really crazy. I'm sure
(04:42):
she's very nice. Fifteen Black Friday sixteen. Here's pulling for
Lorie Black to make that to to keep her streak unbroken.
You're rooting for Yeah. So my big question is is
if you're Lorie Black and you are using your own
money that people are going to pay you for in return,
what's the best thing you can use while you are
(05:04):
standing outside of Black Friday Target midnight. Well that depends,
so let's get into it. Uh, there are advantages to each,
their disadvantages to each, Josh, and we'll go over those
right now. Cash is anonymous. Yeah, if we're a drug dealer, Yeah,
some people like the fact that you're not. Your purchases
(05:26):
aren't being tracked if you use cash. Um. In my family,
we like that our purchases are tracked because then you
can look at your budget each month and say, this
is where we're spending this, this is where we're spending this.
You can still do that with cash, but that means
you have to be You gotta keep up with all
that stuff yourself instead of having your bank account program
(05:46):
doing it for you. It's true. Um. There's also there's
also a proof of ownership that cash in no way,
shape or form has That's right, Remember and die hard
with the German terrorists, where after was um unmarked bearer
bonds same as cash. They weren't terrorists, they were common thieves. No,
(06:09):
they were exceptional thieves. Right, that's exactly right in the
Nakatomy building which is in Century City. So yeah, if
your cast is gone, your cast is gone. Right, proof
of ownership your your face sometimes is on the credit card,
your names on the credit card. You've signed the credit
card and debit card. They ask you to show proof
of I D. Many times. Yes, you don't have to
(06:30):
sign the credit card. By the way, is that right? Um?
You if you sign it and you give somebody your
credit card, you can be like you and I both
know that I don't have to show you a photo
I D. If my signature is on the back, if
I've endorsed this credit card, that's good enough by law. Pal.
But I never signed the back of my credit I
put C I D in sharpie, not the letter C,
(06:53):
the words C S E E I D. And do
they do that most of the time. It's definitely picked up.
Since the risk question started, I've noticed people did not
do it. And now they do, and every time they do,
I go, thank you for asking. Well, Plus it's ridiculous
because you go to sign that stupid little thing with
a ballpoint pin. It looks nothing like your signature because
(07:13):
you're trying to squeeze it in on this little slippery,
smudgy smudgy. And then the other thing, though, is signatures
these days are usually I guess at a restaurant, you
still sign a thing, but a lot of times now
you're signing that stupid Jeopardy pad. So I don't even
sign my name anymore. I just scratch something, yeah, because
I mean, I can't sign my name. It looks like
(07:34):
I'm like three years old. Yeah. My my signature is
sometimes good, sometimes not. But the point is, if you
sign the back of it right, somebody can practice what
it looks like on the bat, make that signatures to
feel like just compared to signatures. That's what it's there for.
But Josh, you are protected nonetheless under the Fair Credit
Building Act. If you lose your credit card, you only
(07:59):
have to pay for up to fifty worth of the fraud. Yes, uh,
if you lose or get your debit cards stolen, the
Electronic Fund Transfer Act covers you same deal fifty bucks
as long as you report it stolen within two days
of noticing it was noticing it was gone, and then
it jumps up to five bucks that you're liable for.
(08:20):
It's not like they say, well, you gotta pay for
everything and thank you big government for that. Yeah seriously, Well,
I mean that's one time it works. Yeah, well there's
there's another time. We'll get to it. Okay. Um, so
you've got you have anonymity with cash, but you have
a lack of security. Yes, you have security with plastic,
(08:40):
both debit and credit, but you don't have any anonymity.
They whoever they are, they can track your purchases. They
definitely can, and they is usually law enforcement. And I
guess if you if you go to the security UH
aspect of it. Credit cards and debit cards, Um, well,
debit cards have a leg up over credit cards because
(09:02):
of your pen which is like it's like a signature
in numbers that only you know or only you should know,
and so they probably don't even ask to see your
card if you use your debit card and you enter
your PIN number, because they just assume that's you. You
know your pin, you're not gonna steal a wallet and
just get the debit card right the first time out,
(09:25):
so they do you have it? But I have a question,
and maybe someone knows this, why don't credit cards have pens? Now?
I don't know that. I wonder why it would seem
to be just one extra added layer. You're swiping it
just like a debit card. So I don't know. I'm
wondering that I have no idea, right, maybe somebody knows
(09:45):
out there in the finance world. Uh. Cash and debit
have the other advantages advantage which is a lack of fees.
When you buy someone with the credit card, unless it's
an American Express, which have to pay off each month,
you are charged financing fees. And if you take a
hit and your light on your bills, those fees are
(10:06):
going to increase and increase to ungodly levels at times,
you know percent you might be paying well. The average
interest rate as of this week in the United States
for credit card is fourteen that's this week. That is
so much money. Um. The average debt that Americans with
(10:30):
credit cards carry is sixteen thousand, six d and thirty five.
That's not home debt. But it's not just credit card debt.
The credit average credit card debt is between right now
in the United States, for credit card holders, that's their
credit average credit card debt. So yeah, man, if you
get bumped up a few points, you're gonna feel it.
(10:52):
And especially if you're just making minimum payments and then
going out and buying more stuff and paying just a
little bit off but you're adding more to it. Well,
it's not very hard to do the math. You might
as well put your own caller on. And if you're
young and fairly naive about finance, you know what a
minimum payment is. That means you're just paying the finance charges.
(11:14):
Well you say that if you're young, But get this.
I saw a stat that showed that most credit card
holders were wait of credit card holders under like age
thirty pay off their monthly balance, which is more than
the adults. So you got to leave it to the kids.
(11:35):
You do something right this time for once in your life.
Do you know what we what kind of balance we
carry zip? Really that's pretty great. We didn't used to,
but we got to a point where we were looking
at finance charges and we just couldn't live like that anymore.
It's great. So every month you paid off. We use
(11:56):
American Express only because we get the sky mileage you
for everything we buy that you know where they don't
demand that you use like a debit card, and we
pay it off each month. That's great. It is. It's
a good way to live because when you start looking
at the finance fees that you're paying, like at the
end of the year, it's depressing. Like I used to
(12:16):
when I was single and living alone, I used to
just ignore that. Well, I think that's what a lot
of people doing, that's what they want. Um, you want
some more stats, Yeah, I got a lot of stets too,
but go ahead, okay, Um, the average American consumer, Chuck,
has three point five credit cards. I don't know how
you have half of credit card, but three point five
(12:39):
credit cards. It seems like a lot to me. If
you live in New Hampshire, New Jersey, Josh, of the
people in that state have ten or more credit cards
and those two and that nuts. That is very nuts. Alright,
a kind of alright of Americans have a credit card
have a debit card. That is a lot of people
(13:00):
that have a credit card and a debit card. Okay,
about people do not have a credit card? At all,
and of people they have to make pay it off
every month. And listen to this. The average consumer's oldest
obligation is fourteen years old. So that means obligation means
you've got something sitting on there from fourteen years ago.
(13:22):
I thought they had to stop reporting after seven years.
Well no, I mean if it's on your oh like
credit like stuff you bought that you're still paying off.
It is up to fourteen years old for the average person. Yeah,
the average oldest obligation. So that trip to Europe you
took in nineteen whatever, fifteen years ago, you might still
be paying off. That's crazy there, consumer, And that's when
(13:48):
I was in Europe. Actually, consumer debt December thirty one,
two thousand ten, all consumer debt in America, I can
almost I Alan can't say it. Eleven point four trillion dollars.
That's how much America owes. That's how much the American
people owe, not the government, that's how much the just
(14:09):
the regular old Joe's though. All right, So that was that, Yeah,
it was, But these are good stats. People need to
know the stag Are you going with stats? Still? Uh? No,
I'm done? All right, So where are we let's let's
recap here. Cash is good, but you lose it easy, right,
and if you lose it or its stolen it, you're
almost That's what I meant to say, likely to not
(14:32):
get it back, not that you lose it easy. Um.
Debit cards are good because they offer protection from the
federal government. They got a pin, you gotta pin. Credit
cards offer the same protection. They don't have a pin, right.
They charge fees, interest financing fees, yes, and sometimes membership fees,
and debit cards now again have a higher leg up
(14:56):
as it stands. Right. The second against credit cards because
the were draft fees that used to just kill people
are now illegal unless you opt in. Oh yeah, they
remember there was the Card Act, so as of I
think August two, you had to officially opt in with
your bank to say I want overdraft protection and therefore
(15:19):
you can charge me over draft fees. Sure, which at
one point in my life I loved overdraft protection because
I was right and check my butt get in cash,
and I didn't mind paying those fees. Oh dude, those
fees are crippling. Yeah, But if you know, if you
were me in nineteen in the mid nineties, you like
those fees, I got you because you could just stay afloat,
(15:40):
and that's what it was all about for me back then.
Or you could just you know, do your finances correctly true,
which I did not do. Or and I remember back
of America got in trouble for this. They always did.
They always posted from the largest amount the smallest amount,
under the idea that your smallest amount, there were more
(16:02):
of your smallest amounts, so that when they started hitting
you could get more and more overdraft fees. Right, the largest,
the smallest or smallest the largest, whichever way you get
hit with the more overdraft fees. That's the way that
they always post. We could screen the most. Yeah, without
any regard to chronology whatsoever. It was. However, however, many
(16:24):
overdraft fees. They got in trouble for that and correct
and corrected it. Yes, that's what led to this correction.
That is UH debit cards are generally fee free. Your
bank most likely has as a fee free debit card. Um,
if you're getting cash out of the a t M
at your own bank, you're probably not gonna be paying
any fees there. So that's always nice to save on
(16:45):
your fees. Unless well, that was another Bank of America thing.
Remember very recently they said they were going to charge
five bucks to use their debit cards five bucks a month,
and Occupy Wall Street was like what and they rolled
that back to they did. Apparently a bunch of other
banks rolled it back except Wells Fargo still has it
outstanding there they're apparently going to go ahead with their
five dollar fee. So interstand another point that we should consider, Josh.
(17:11):
If you have a problem, if you have a shopping problem,
then cash is your best friend. Because there's, uh, there's
a thing and they even called it the pain of paying,
which is when you take cash out of your wallet
or purse, pocketbook and hand it to somebody. It's a
very visceral, real feeling that you see the money leave
your hand and go to someone else and it's gone forever.
(17:33):
Obviously debit and credit cards that it just exists in
the ether. You may get paid electronically, you may and
you could live your life without seeing a single dollar
bill very easily these days, pay your bills remotely, don't
have to write checks. You can do it all on
the on the internet now, So that makes it pretty
easy for a shopoholic to rack up some debt without
realizing it or not, Yeah, without realizing it. Right, it
(17:56):
takes away it makes money less transparent. Um like Social Security. Uh,
there's no longer social Security checks. It's all electronic, which
I don't think it's a scam. I think it's a
money saving effort because people would move in with their
old neighbor and check their mail every day, right right,
you know who did that? Or just check their mail
(18:18):
every day, not even moving. Um, there's a there's a
whole there's a school of thought which is pretty rational
and reasonable that there's not gonna be paper money that
much longer because of stuff like that, big sweeping moves
like this. Um, I don't know if about that. Well,
there's paper money. Paper dollars are under assault right now.
(18:38):
You remember the super Committee with the deficit reduction plan
that their tax was coming up with. They have suggested
phasing out dollar bills entirely and replacing them with dollar coins,
right Okay, and um I beat down on that. Well,
it would save like fivety six billion dollars over thirty
years and dropping the bucket, like, what's the savings coming? Printing?
(19:02):
So it costs more to print a dollar coin than
it does to print a dollar bill, but dollar coins
um average circulation life is three times longer, so ultimately
it costs less over the thirty years of the dollar
coins lifespan. The coin is more hardy. Yes, but you're
gonna run into a company called the Crane and Co
out of Massachusetts who has a friend named John Kerry
(19:24):
who's on the super committee. And Craning Company are the
ones who make the special paper four dollar bills, and
they're like, no, no no, no, we can't write this. So
you're always going to run into those guys. Another final
um nod to to credit cards is uh, like I mentioned,
I get sky miles on my m X Delta. So
a lot of these programs offer rewards, whether it's towards
(19:46):
sky miles or vacation points, hotel points, cash back. I
think Discover actually write to check every year, don't they?
As far as you know, still do that. And uh,
you're not gonna get that with the debit card or cash,
so that's important to you. Um. There was also one
that I left out. I left that out of this article,
but I also left out did you generally, whether you
(20:08):
like it or not? I was wondering why you're making
such fun of it. To me, You're like, I'm sitting
right here, um whether you whether you like it or not,
it's pretty It's a reality of this moment in history
that you need a credit history of some sort to
get a car or house or do any large purchase,
and you can't build one with a debit card or
(20:30):
with cash. So if you can responsibly use a credit card, uh,
you can generate a credit history. And that is a
huge advantage that a credit card gives you over anything else.
And I also wanted to say, I think it kind
of slipped by. I'm not saying that the onus is
is completely on banks to not um rape and pillage.
(20:52):
I think that the onus is on the individual consumer
as well to keep your checkbook balanced and do not
rely on overdraft the to you know, really take a
look at where your money is going, basically to be
like Chuck is now you know, actually Chuck's wife is it?
This was a great article. I was just kidding around
(21:13):
about the I don't say it now. No, it's good.
Don't say no. I think you you spell out all
the points very definitely. And one more time, is it
non to Humi? I think you should go out and
um find out for yourself, being a responsible consumer, what
works best for you cash or credit. Plus, you know,
(21:34):
it's still sometimes nice too, and it's nice to throw
down the Amex gold to pay for dinner for your friends.
But it's also nice to you know, have the big
bank roll in your pocket and and tell your friends
to go rot. Well know, you can pay in cash
and look like a like a big spender. Oh yeah,
I see what you're saying. You know, like if spending ok,
(21:56):
oh yeah, you can't do that. You the cash is
like if you pull that out, you're a walking target.
You make it rain? You gonna if you do that
kind of thing. Yeah, I can't make it rain with
a credit card, you know. You know, there's throw it
up in the air and it comes right back to
have a bad idea either way cash, credit or debit.
(22:17):
There here's the ending. Making it rain in any way,
shape or form, with any kind of form of payment,
it's a it's a bad waste of money. Only God
can make your rain. Uh. If you want to learn
more about um the hydrological cycle, or whether it's best
play pay with cash, credit, or debit, you can type
those words into the search bart how stuff works dot
(22:38):
com and that'll bring up some good stuff. And I said,
search bar. So it's time for listening round, Josh, I'm
gonna call this a freaky email. Hi, guys, my mom
was visiting my wife and I a few weeks ago,
and they were they were both going through some old
family photos in the living room. Mostly what I would
(22:59):
over here was that's on so and so, there's great aunt,
who's it? But occasionally she would mention Johnny Eck. I
remember she would mention him every once in a while
when I was younger, mostly in the context of some
worldly advice. Johnny k would say, you should never put
coffee grounds down the sink, etcetera. Anyway, they're in the
living room going through these albums when my mom uh
with my mom pointing at pictures naming people, and apparently
(23:21):
she points at one and says, there's such and such
and such and so and so and Johnny Ck the
half Man, and all of a sudden, the needle falls
off the record. My wife stopped here and they said,
who whoa, whoa, whoaa, halfman? What are you talking about.
My mom wasn't even face. She said, you know, Johnny
Eck the half Man. So, yes, you guys know Johnny Ek.
(23:42):
He was basically just a torso, literally half a man.
My mom explained that he and his brother had lived
at my grandfather's house for a while when she was
a kid, helped out around his Kitty amusement park. But
Jerry just fall in there. You might want to look
into that grand father running the train, doing odd chores
(24:02):
and stuff and just entertaining the kids. I had no
idea if my mom had mentioned it to me before.
It was so nonchalant. It never hit me until now.
My wife has a bit of a morbid curiosity for
morbid curiosities, so she started digging around. Turns out it
didn't take much digging. He was pretty famous. He's part
of the Freak show at Barnman Bailey Circus and even
(24:23):
in the movie Freaks that we've talked about. You know
Johnny K. He's he walks on his fists, that's right,
And he gained a pretty big cult following with its
resurgence in the eighties. And says Steve is related to
Johnny K. Pretty cool related or his grandfather was friends
with him. His grandfather was friends with Johnny E. Thanks
(24:45):
a lot Steve for them. That was pretty That is
very cool. What was that in relation to I believe
we mentioned freaks and the show on mortgage. Really I
don't remember which one it was. Well, thank you, Steve.
I appreciate that. It's a pretty cool story. Um and
(25:08):
more big curiosities are always interesting, definitely. Um. Also, Chuck,
we should definitely say thank you to our buddy at
Little Bit Sweets. We got our Christmas package Festivals, as
she says, we got our Festivus package. Yeah, Liz, So
I want to, um issue a proclamation. If you want
(25:30):
to experience something awesome, I strongly suggest the pecan brown
sugar brittle from Little Bit Sweets. Have you had it yet? Dude?
Is really good stuff. Everything they make is amazing and
this tops it all. This tops it all. This is
the Honeycomb candy are my favorite? Yeah, like the Hondcomb candy. Guy. Um, Yeah,
(25:52):
it's good stuff, handmade candy, Brooklyn, New York. Liz always
takes care. We're in the rotation now, which I just love. Yeah,
get two or three these packages a year, so her. Um,
and I'm hoping we hear from Mona Collingtine again. Remember
Grandma Colling Teine's and like all those big that big
thing of different cookies. Yeah, hint hint, yeah, mona, come on,
(26:14):
get it together. Um. Anyway, a little Bit Sweets is
little Bit Sweets dot com. L I D B A
B I T S W E E T S dot com,
Little bit Sweets dot com. Right, good stuff. Uh, and uh,
thank you very much to Lose for that. And also
we never said thank you to these guys. I haven't
(26:35):
watched these movies yet, but um, when we did the
exploitation film episode, uh, some listeners from the company's Scumbag
Movies were like, oh, you like exploitation films. Hum, well,
here was a bunch of free DVDs. So I have
not seen any of the movies yet, but thank you
very much for the thought and the gesture of Scumbag movies.
And we will let you guys and everybody know what
(26:57):
we thought of your scumbag movies after we watch. Yeah,
we're way behind actually on administrative detail. It's piled up.
So I think about that one every every like a
few weeks, and I never remember, and I remembered, so
I just wanted to get it out. So if you've
sent us something I'd say. Look, in the next week
or two, we'll we'll knock those out. The thank yous. Yes,
so um, let's see. If you wanted to contact us,
(27:21):
you can send us a tweet at s Y s
K podcast uh, and you can visit us on Facebook
dot com at Facebook dot com slash stuff you Should Know,
or you can send us a plan old fashion email
at Stuff Podcast at how stuff works dot com. Be
(27:43):
sure to check out our new video podcast, Stuff from
the Future. Join how Stuff Work staff as we explore
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