December 22, 2009 • 26 mins
In this episode of Stuff You Should Know, Josh and Chuck discuss the origins and complications of concussions, injuries in which the brain comes into contact with the skull.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera.
It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff you Should Know
from House Stuff Works dot Com. Hey, and welcome to
the podcast. I'm with Charles W. Bryant and I am
(00:20):
Josh Clark. Yeah. How you doing? Good man? What? Good man? Okay?
M ang Chuck? Have you been concussed? No? Man? Are
you sure? I'm acting like you're showing some classic symptoms here.
You know, if I was concussed, you know what that
would mean. What that would mean my brain moved and
(00:41):
hit my skull. Yes, that's what a concussion is. This
is a new, fresh, segue free edition of Stuff You
Should Know? Right, You like this one? I want it so?
Uh yeah. Concussion there. It's in the news all over
the place today, right oh big time is the NFL? Yes, right, Chuck.
A concussion is put simply where, uh, your skull stops moving,
(01:07):
but your brain keeps moving and it slaps the inside
of your skull, which is pretty hard. I'm kind of
surprised the human body didn't. We've evolved in such great
ways to prevent things like that. I'm surprised there wasn't
like a built in Hans system like NASCAR uses something
like a web around the brain. We have that memory.
Remember that's what shrinks when you have a hangover. Well,
(01:28):
it clearly doesn't work that well if you can still
hit your skull. That's what I'm saying. It's true. I
wish it was such that concussions wouldn't even happen. We
need like a padding of foam rubber like in between,
like an interior football helmet. Right, let's get on that,
all right, No bell prize, Gonna go do some gene
splicing after this. It would end up being an Igno
Bell Prize with us though. Yeah, lots of chuck. Where
(01:53):
does the word concussion come from? Josh? It is Latin,
like most medical terms, and I believe the word is concuteer,
which means which means to shake violently. Yeah, so there
you have it. So your brain is being shaken violently,
and uh it's nay good when that happens. My friend
Chris Jones was I think his first article that he
(02:14):
wrote for this. He's a freelancer. Uh and as he
put it, un of yours, I would say, more buddy
than a crony. He didn't get him hired. Oh yeah, okay, yeah,
he's a crony. Okay, Um, he's good, he is. He
is a good guy, he writes for the Motley fool To.
Actually he's all over the place. Um he wrote that,
(02:34):
in an ironic twist, the one bone specifically designed to
shield our gray matter from injury ends up doing the
most damage. Great sentence. Yeah, So I mean, like you said,
we need like something a football helmet around our brain
within our skull. Yeah, or just don't hit your head
hard on something, right, which apparently is a little more
difficult than one would think. And I think that one
(02:57):
of the reasons we're podcasting about this now. I was like,
you said that it's kind of big. NFL is all
over it. Well, you know, the NFL is doing the
opposite of being all over it, and it's getting lots
of press attention. Now. They're all over it now, though,
are they? Yeah? Yeah, just this week? Right, okay, all right? Um.
I think one of the one of the reasons that
we're podcasting about concussions that this article got written is
(03:19):
it's big. It's big. Right now we're finally starting to
realize that it's not you don't just get your bell
wrong or you're not a little rattled. What we're starting
to see is that concussions lead very easily to early death,
specifically multiple concussions or dementia or Alzheimer's. Yeah, bad stuff,
(03:42):
all from one horrible moment or or several. Yeah, so Chuck,
what are some of the ways you can be concussed?
I've been concussed and I can't get up. Uh. Actually
what you should do is not get up, but we'll
get to that too. Yeah, so Chuck, what are some
of the symptoms of a concussion. Let's say you are
(04:03):
a University of Georgia UM cheerleader, sure, and you want
to come over and diagnose poor Baccari Rambo, who is unconscious? Right? What?
What's what's just? What? What? What are you looking for? Well?
I would look at Baccari first. If he was nauseous
or uncoordinated, no balance, confused, had a slurred speech or
memory loss, or delayed reaction time, that would be my
(04:26):
immediate diagnosis. If I'm looking at him and I see
some of those symptoms that he might in fact be concussed.
Those are some outward symptoms, right, There's also ones that
the concussed person will experience like, Um, sensitivity to light
and sound, yes, Josh, that is called phonophobia and photophobia.
(04:47):
Loud loud noises and bright lights no good if you're
concussed loud noises, right, yeah, you don't want that. Um.
It can make you dizzy, give you a headache, make
you nauseated. Um, it's just bad stuff. Your sleep, Um,
your ability anxiety, as far as emotional impact, right, depression, sure,
(05:09):
and uh, your ability to think. Actually, um, A lot
of times there is an accompanying amnesia to concussion. Yeah,
and it's usually immediate, like after if the person loses consciousness. Um,
they they when they wake up, they may have some
sort of uh amnesia, or even if they don't lose consciousness,
(05:31):
they can still have some amnesia for you know, from
the moment that impact took place, the moment their brain
slept the inside of their skull. Yeah, so that's what.
That's why when you see like on a football sideline
or in a boxing ring, there's a just a battery
of questions. I'll be asking like who are you, do
you know where you are? Um? And if they say
something like you know, I'm playing football, they need to
(05:52):
get a little more specific than that, what city are
we in, what team are we playing? Right? And it's
time to get out of the game, right, which is
kind of a it's it's difficult. Actually, did you see
that testimony by Ray Lewis. Yeah, Hey, they were talking
about getting out of the game, and you know, even
(06:12):
knowing just a little bit that we know now about concussions,
Lewis was still like, depends on what's going on in
the game, you know, Um, from what what I understand,
if you have a concussion, you don't go back in
that game. Well, as of yesterday, that's the new rule,
is it. Yes, let's talk about then Let's let's back
(06:33):
up a second, because the NFL has long um been
not too sensitive to concussions and taking a lot of
heat over the years for having their team doctors allow
guys to go back into soon or leading up to
the player who you know, wildly under reports concussions NFL
players do, or all athletes, I would imagine, and uh,
(06:56):
there's a guy named John McKay and he was on
the San Diego Chargers in the early seventies. Sadly, he
played with a guy named Ralph Winzel Uh for the
entire nineteen seventy two season and neither one of them
remember playing with each other as teammates. Wow, very sad.
So McKay's wife led this charge. Um to get this
(07:18):
on the NFL's radar, because she started making calls and found,
she said, at least twenty people whose husbands were suffering
from Alzheimer's in early dementia. And we're talking age. There's
others that are suffering as early as their thirties and forties.
So um, she wrote Commissioner Tagliboo at the time a letter.
(07:39):
He got the ball rolling and they created the plan
which was McKay's number, and they now families can receive
up to eighty eight thousand dollars a year for care
if they from the NFL. Yeah, if they qualify. That's
so that happened. And then two days ago the NFL
because the concussions have been big news this year, especially
(08:00):
lot of high profile guys Ben Roethlisberger for the Steelers
and a couple of other high profile dudes have been
concussed Hurt Warner, and the new rule takes effect this week.
It's like an immediate rule, which is unusual. And uh,
if you have fleeting symptoms you're allowed to return to
the game, but if you have amnesia, poor balance, or
an abnormal neurological examination, you cannot go back into the
(08:24):
game at all. That's that's a good rule. It's very
good rule. Although from what Chris Jones says, if you've
been concussed, if you show any evidence of concussion, you
shouldn't be going back into the game at all. Well yeah, sure,
I guess baby steps right. And I think they're also
bringing in for the post game evaluations after, you know,
the coming days after uh. They have now required this
(08:46):
independent doctors have to perform the test and not the
team doctor, because if you've seen any given Sunday, I
think the notion of the team doctor is kind of
a joke. In the NFL UM I read about an
other group of ex athletes led by a guy named
Kris Nowinski. He played football for Harvard, but then he
(09:07):
went onto the w w E and he had several
concussions and then took a kick to the chin and
that was it lights out for him career. Over um
and he started to read studies on concussions because he
had like headaches for five years and depressed depressions. A
big big part of comorbidity of concussions UM. And he
(09:29):
ended up founding the Sports Legacy Institute with a guy
named Dr Robert Cantu, who I know, whose name you'll
recognize because he founded one of the UM I guess
indices for grading UH concussions. Yes, um. But they they
got together and created the Sports Legacy Institute, and they
(09:52):
take donations of ex football players brains once they die
for study and the study that they've been doing together.
So basically no Winsky recruits families to donate their dead,
you know, football players brains, and then Canto turns around
(10:12):
and dissects the brains at this place called the Center
for the Study of Traumatic Encephalopathy, which he co directs.
And this group, the c s t E are finding
some really startling stuff in the brains of people who
are like forty fifty. They got their hands on a
brain of an eighteen year old kid who was a
(10:33):
multi sports athlete died at eight team. They got his brain,
and he his brain and the other brains that they've
looked at so far all look like eighty year old
UM Alzheimer's patients brains. Well that's I was just about
to say those Philadelphia Eagle former Eagle named Andre Waters
that committed suicide last year. He was forty four, and
they said the same thing. He had the brain of
(10:55):
an eight year old Alzheimer's patient. Yeah, and he's not
the only one. He committed suicide. UM. Some other guys
have been drinking themselves to death. UM. A guy named
Ted Johnson who used to play for the Pats um
has pre he's donated his brain when he dies. H
And I think he's in his like thirties or early forties.
And um, he spent two years with his curtains clothes
(11:18):
hold up in his house from just major depression. M
sad Man. I'm a huge NFL fan. It's just you
always hear about and these are just the head injuries.
You always hear about these old warriors from before they
made a ton of money that are like destitute and
they can't walk. And that's what they think that that's
another thing in an ability to work to manage money
(11:38):
like that maybe one of the reasons why a lot
of these guys go bankrupt. It's like eight or seventy
of NFL players go bankrupts in like four years actually
after leaving well the average uh lifespan of or not lifespan,
but tenure of an NFL player is really short. I
mean it's like two or two seasons or something especial. See,
(12:00):
if you've suffered multiple concussions, Apparently one concussion, your brain
can restore its faculties, can umully itself. Yeah, but if
you have a concussion, then you you have a secondary
concussion um before the first one has time to heal,
or you have multiple concussions over your lifetime, you're in
deep trouble. Yes, Josh, that what you just talked about.
(12:22):
When you have the second one before the first one heal,
that is called potentially second impact syndrome, and you can die. Yeah,
that's way worse because the what the arteries in the
brain swell. Yeah, it's it triggers a train, a chain reaction.
It starts with the disordered cerebral vascular autoregulation, and that
(12:43):
means the brain loses its ability to keep the rhine
amount of blood pressure basically, so the brain swells and
that leads to UH congestion and pressure and herniation and death. Yeah.
Once once your brain stem is herniated, once it's um
no longer getting it supply of blood and oxygen and
everything it needs. You know, there goes your breathing and
(13:04):
your heartbeat and all the very primal basic stuff that's
controlled by the brainstem. I'm surprised this hasn't happened yet,
and I'm surprised actually what brains herniation. I'm surprised an
NFL player has not died on the football field yet.
That's shocking to me that that has not happened. And
I think it's gonna take something like that. Unfortunately, although
(13:25):
that they're going in the right direction now, I used
to think that it would take something that drastic to
really make drastic changes. Maybe who knows. Maybe it's not
that much of a blood sport. It's very physical support.
But you know, people don't go out like hockey. Yeah,
people want to see somebody get their throat slit by Like,
did you never saw that that happened where hockey goalie
(13:48):
had his jugular vein cut in a in a hockey game.
Is it on video somewhere? It's gotta be. I saw
it on TV when it happened, like it was a
while ago, was probably ten years ago. But the guy
like Ben down on his knees and grabs his throat
and in like three seconds you see a pool of
blood go from like a drop to like eight feet
in diameter. Now he didn't die. In fact, he was
(14:10):
back with the team the next day. They sewed him,
sewed him up and like refilled the pump full blood
and he was good to go. There you go. Yeah, man,
what a time to be alive. So we should talk
about treatment and uh stuff like that, okay, because you know,
if it's not just NFL players you get concussed at home,
your kid can easily get concussed. The leading head injury
(14:35):
for children. Yeah, I wanted to mention that, Chuck, Like,
we've been talking about the NFL, but the NFL isn't
the only group out there playing football. Um, there's tons
of kids. And actually I was reading an article by
forward right who you don't want to see? Have you
ever seen a picture of Frank Nafford. It's one of
those ones where you're like, man, I wish I didn't
see that. This is nothing like what I thought the
(14:56):
guy looked like. And really that's what Frank l DeFord
looks like. Wow, I know I have seen him, actually have,
but like your local shopping mall like change. Um Well,
he wrote an article about concussions and he was basically
goating the NFL into doing something. Um And he also
(15:17):
points out that it's not just the NFL who like suiting.
Up at one point two million high school students every
year play football, and they apparently are much more prone
to concussions than older guys because they're like the impacts
are actually at a higher velocity than in the NFL
because they're not worried about their careers, are trying to
(15:37):
get to the career, so they're killing anybody who gets
in their way, Whereas an NFL player would be more
likely to Number one, he knows his way around the
football field, he knows what he's doing. He's been playing
for a long time, right And number two he's worried
about making it out the next Sunday. Two, so's gonna
take it a little easier on himself too. Well, maybe
they also under report in the NFL, though, just because
(15:58):
they don't want to like kind word. Called out Ben
Roethlisberger last week for being a wuss basically for not
playing because he had headaches. A week later, come on, heinz, Yeah,
he felt bad for it. He did. Yeah, good he should.
Um so Chuck, Yes, we were talking about treatment. Yes, Josh.
The first thing you should do if you even suspect
(16:18):
your concussed is stop whatever the heck you were doing
to get concussed. Do not drop and roll either, just stop.
Just just stop at the stop no movement. And if
you should also we should also mentioned that whole thing
about don't go to sleep if you're concussed. Not true, No,
it's not rest is actually exactly what you know. Chris
points out sleep deprivation is not a good treatment for
a concussion. I wouldn't think so. So you should stop
(16:40):
what you're doing immediately. Um, if you think it's could
possibly be worse than a concussion, you should, you know,
immediately go to the doctor. Probably get a CT scan
or mri I. Although the weird thing is that they
can't you can't see a concussion, right like you can't
diagnose a concussion from an m r I or CT scan.
What they're doing when they do skin you was ruling
(17:02):
out other types of um traumatic brain injury, Yeah, like
internal bleeding and that kind of thing. So, uh, a
minority of uh the cases you you will have something
called post concussion syndrome, and that can be a couple
of weeks or months of side effects basically prolonged everything
we talked about, fatigue, dizziness, confusion, nausea, that kind of thing.
(17:24):
But that doesn't always happen. That's why concussions are like
still sort of a mystery. Sometimes it sometimes it happens,
sometimes it doesn't. Some some people recover faster than others.
It's really hard to diagnose, like you said, because you
can't see it and people under report it. So it's
really you're up against the battle here trying to get
it diagnosed and treated correctly. Definitely, but I think groups
(17:44):
like um, the cst E is that what it was called. Sure, Yeah,
I think so. Um they you know, once, once they've
been cracking open the brains, I think the mysteries are
starting to be solved a little more. Um. We talked
about how they look like the brains of Alzheimer's patients.
One of the reasons they draw that comparison is not
just because the symptoms are the same. They actually have
(18:08):
protein tangles that are characteristic of Alzheimer's in the brains
of multiple concussion sufferers. UM, so they're they're the brains
can't communicate the brain, the neurons can't communicate with each
other any longer. Basically, stuff, these protein buildups that should
have been carried out his waist aren't any longer. And
(18:28):
now they're just coming up the works, which can actually
kill the brain cells, which leads to brain death, which
leads to death. Wow. Yeah, much more serious. And people think,
have you ever been concussed? I don't think I have.
I think I have been a couple of times. My
little girlfriend has. Really Yeah, I got hit in the
head with a softball bat once and I've never had
(18:49):
my bell rung like that before. Yeah, not like Managine,
like the dude was in the on deck circle and
I walked up and didn't see him right there? Did
you go unconscious? But I staggered and you know, saw
angels above my head. Actually, I may have been concussed
because I had the same the same symptoms after I
(19:12):
was shooting it a little propane tank with the high
powered rifle. I'm not kidding. We should say you should
never ever do something that you think that this. Every
podcast should start out with a disclaimer, like, don't do
what Josh talks about. Um and I didn't have the
stock against your shoulder from onst my shoulders. I had
(19:33):
an under in my armpit and the thing had a
scope and it was to boom, and um, I just
looked at my friend and handed him the gun and
kind of staggered off. And yeah, I was seeing all
sorts of chicks on YouTube. If you searched girl with shotgun,
there's like hundreds of videos of girls that don't know
how to shoot a rifle properly and getting knocked out.
(19:54):
That's exactly who And it is not funny on YouTube.
It's funny because they put the I didn't get knocked out,
but I still have a scar. You see, I see
the little crescent right there, that's from the scope. Yeah,
I bet we've both been concussed. Jerry's like, let's move along.
Who cares if you've been concussed. We should finish up
Josh with a little debate. There's some debate in the
(20:15):
medical community about whether it is a structural or functional
issue with the damage. Yeah, I think I think that
the opening up of the brains is starting to show
that it's um structural. And do you think so? Yeah,
the protein tangles is definitely structural. But I guess it
would be both because it's in the structural changes are
interfering with the function. Well yeah, but some people say
(20:36):
that since a concussion is short lived and you fully recover,
then it may not be structural. Maybe it's from multiple
concussions or the severity of the concussion. That'd be my guess. Yea,
they both have good points. Do you got anything else, buddy?
Uh No, that's about it. I think where your bicycle helmets? Kids?
That's another one. Always always wear your seatbelt. Auto accidents
(20:58):
are another major source of concussions. Horseback riding incidents, yeah,
bikes are huge though. Bikes sure, Um, falling in any
any little kids too are in particular danger because they
haven't gotten their their their coordination, they don't have their
sea legs yet, so they fall over, hit their head
and then actually they can prevent their development further on
(21:20):
in life. Right Um yeah, I think, uh, just being
smart and trying to keep your head safe. And and kids,
if you're out there playing like touch football and you
get you know, tackled, and your head hits the ground
real hard, seriously, stop playing. Your friends might make fun
of you, but you know, tell him if bign Roethlisberger
(21:41):
can take himself out of a game that I can.
That's what I would say. That's good stuff. Who's ah,
So that's concussions uh. And if you want to learn
more about it, you might want to type the word
concussion uh into the handy search bar how stuff works
dot com. Uh. And always listen to your uncle Chuck too.
That was really good advice, Chuck. Thank you, Josh. So
(22:03):
this means it's time for listener Mayo. I'm a professional uncle,
by the way, uncle to Reagan Shelby Abbey and no one,
I don't know that your professional or you paid for that. No,
but I'm good at it. I'm sure you are. It's
a good it's a good gig, all right. I've got
two quickies from two cute little kids who wrote and
(22:27):
I can never turn these down? Are you uncle to
these kids? Now? This comes from Will in Arlington, Virginia.
He's twelve. Hi, guys. After hearing your podcast How Flirting Works,
I realized how much I flirt with girls on a
daily basis. With me being twelve and relationships and dates
being just around the corner, I feel middle school would
(22:47):
be the perfect time to fetch myself a gal. You're kidding.
I know. I was not like this when I was twelve.
I was like meet girls? Uh? Was that me when
I was swell for me? Thank God I'm married. I
do like some girls, but I'm too shy to tell them.
I also think some girls like me, but they're too
shy to tell me. I feel left out, So please
(23:09):
help me. Did you give me some tips on getting
a girl? Maybe some things I should do or tell
them and know, Josh, I will not moon them. Could
you give me a shout out as well? Then any
girls who like me, we'll hear the shout out and
they will be impressed. So this is the shout out.
Did you didn't say his last name? Did you don't
think we're out to just Will in Arlington, Virginia twelve?
(23:31):
So will We'll say? Like we said in the Flirting podcast,
that my advice at your age, my friend, if you
want to get ahead of the game, be nice to girls,
because a lot of guys that age think it's fun
to kind of tease and not be nice to girls.
And you learned later on that being nice to girls
will get you farther. You learn that now, little buddy,
then you will be ahead of your peers. That's great again,
(23:53):
great advice, Chuck and be funny. That was the other one, right,
Sure you got anything? Uh? Confidence will confidence? Have comp vidence,
and don't just fetch a gal. To fetch a gal,
make sure that you like the girl and she likes you,
and you both treat each other right, and just go
from there. But treat her with respect. You'll fetch a gal,
all right? Sure? Okay, so this comes from this next
(24:14):
one is from Katie, who was a freshman in high
school in Florida. Unfortunately, because she could potentially be hooked
up with will Uh, Katie wrote us a poem. I
was really sad when Hiku theater ended, which it has,
and I wanted to write in with a poem, but
didn't have the inspiration. Luckily a bird provided. That's life
for me to write this for you guys, Could you
read this one? It's very good, oh bird, Your short
(24:38):
or long existence may or may not have been wonderful.
Your mate, girlfriend or mother will miss you. Parentheses, maybe
we will mourn you forever or until we forget. We
will never forget your plight to get to the cafeteria.
But alas the window was in the way the windex
it is clean with is your murderer. Your vengeance will
(24:59):
go und and we aren't sorry at all. Dear bird,
all your dreams were broken in an instant like your neck. Oh,
dear Bertie, your life is over now, and that is awesome.
It is. That's Kate, Katie, Katie. He's a freshman in
high school in uh Florida. Katie hates birds. Concussed bird,
(25:21):
which is no debt. So those are two cute little
kids that wrote in and they like that. Thank you both,
Katie and Will and all of our young listeners. We
think very highly of you. And you know what, let's
send to leave at that. We think highly of all
of our listeners, don't each other. We also think especially
highly of our listeners who donate to Kiva. Yeah, Keiva
(25:41):
dot org. We have a membership loan team. Yeah you heard.
Our team is so serious. It's awesome too. Do We
almost have one thousand members on our team almost. I
think that makes us like the tenth largest something like that.
Pretty cool. Um, So yeah, if you want to join
our Keiva team, we'd love it if you did. Um.
(26:01):
You can make a donation as low as twenty five
bucks and it gets repaid. Kiva also has gift certificates
for Christmas. For Christmas or any holiday that you give
a gift on right chunture, you can go to www
dot kiva dot org, slash team slash stuff you Should
Know and join and donate right and if you want
(26:23):
to send Chuck in Eye an email um whether you
are twelve, fourteen eighty two or the wholdest living person
on the planet, you can send that to Stuff podcast
at how stuff works dot com. For more on this
and thousands of other topics, is it how stuff works
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(26:46):
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brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera.
It's ready, Are you
Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera.
It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff you Should Know
from House Stuff Works dot Com. Hey, and welcome to
the podcast. I'm with Charles W. Bryant and I am
(00:20):
Josh Clark. Yeah. How you doing? Good man? What? Good man? Okay?
M ang Chuck? Have you been concussed? No? Man? Are
you sure? I'm acting like you're showing some classic symptoms here.
You know, if I was concussed, you know what that
would mean. What that would mean my brain moved and
(00:41):
hit my skull. Yes, that's what a concussion is. This
is a new, fresh, segue free edition of Stuff You
Should Know? Right, You like this one? I want it so?
Uh yeah. Concussion there. It's in the news all over
the place today, right oh big time is the NFL? Yes, right, Chuck.
A concussion is put simply where, uh, your skull stops moving,
(01:07):
but your brain keeps moving and it slaps the inside
of your skull, which is pretty hard. I'm kind of
surprised the human body didn't. We've evolved in such great
ways to prevent things like that. I'm surprised there wasn't
like a built in Hans system like NASCAR uses something
like a web around the brain. We have that memory.
Remember that's what shrinks when you have a hangover. Well,
(01:28):
it clearly doesn't work that well if you can still
hit your skull. That's what I'm saying. It's true. I
wish it was such that concussions wouldn't even happen. We
need like a padding of foam rubber like in between,
like an interior football helmet. Right, let's get on that,
all right, No bell prize, Gonna go do some gene
splicing after this. It would end up being an Igno
Bell Prize with us though. Yeah, lots of chuck. Where
(01:53):
does the word concussion come from? Josh? It is Latin,
like most medical terms, and I believe the word is concuteer,
which means which means to shake violently. Yeah, so there
you have it. So your brain is being shaken violently,
and uh it's nay good when that happens. My friend
Chris Jones was I think his first article that he
(02:14):
wrote for this. He's a freelancer. Uh and as he
put it, un of yours, I would say, more buddy
than a crony. He didn't get him hired. Oh yeah, okay, yeah,
he's a crony. Okay, Um, he's good, he is. He
is a good guy, he writes for the Motley fool To.
Actually he's all over the place. Um he wrote that,
(02:34):
in an ironic twist, the one bone specifically designed to
shield our gray matter from injury ends up doing the
most damage. Great sentence. Yeah, So I mean, like you said,
we need like something a football helmet around our brain
within our skull. Yeah, or just don't hit your head
hard on something, right, which apparently is a little more
difficult than one would think. And I think that one
(02:57):
of the reasons we're podcasting about this now. I was like,
you said that it's kind of big. NFL is all
over it. Well, you know, the NFL is doing the
opposite of being all over it, and it's getting lots
of press attention. Now. They're all over it now, though,
are they? Yeah? Yeah, just this week? Right, okay, all right? Um.
I think one of the one of the reasons that
we're podcasting about concussions that this article got written is
(03:19):
it's big. It's big. Right now we're finally starting to
realize that it's not you don't just get your bell
wrong or you're not a little rattled. What we're starting
to see is that concussions lead very easily to early death,
specifically multiple concussions or dementia or Alzheimer's. Yeah, bad stuff,
(03:42):
all from one horrible moment or or several. Yeah, so Chuck,
what are some of the ways you can be concussed?
I've been concussed and I can't get up. Uh. Actually
what you should do is not get up, but we'll
get to that too. Yeah, so Chuck, what are some
of the symptoms of a concussion. Let's say you are
(04:03):
a University of Georgia UM cheerleader, sure, and you want
to come over and diagnose poor Baccari Rambo, who is unconscious? Right? What?
What's what's just? What? What? What are you looking for? Well?
I would look at Baccari first. If he was nauseous
or uncoordinated, no balance, confused, had a slurred speech or
memory loss, or delayed reaction time, that would be my
(04:26):
immediate diagnosis. If I'm looking at him and I see
some of those symptoms that he might in fact be concussed.
Those are some outward symptoms, right, There's also ones that
the concussed person will experience like, Um, sensitivity to light
and sound, yes, Josh, that is called phonophobia and photophobia.
(04:47):
Loud loud noises and bright lights no good if you're
concussed loud noises, right, yeah, you don't want that. Um.
It can make you dizzy, give you a headache, make
you nauseated. Um, it's just bad stuff. Your sleep, Um,
your ability anxiety, as far as emotional impact, right, depression, sure,
(05:09):
and uh, your ability to think. Actually, um, A lot
of times there is an accompanying amnesia to concussion. Yeah,
and it's usually immediate, like after if the person loses consciousness. Um,
they they when they wake up, they may have some
sort of uh amnesia, or even if they don't lose consciousness,
(05:31):
they can still have some amnesia for you know, from
the moment that impact took place, the moment their brain
slept the inside of their skull. Yeah, so that's what.
That's why when you see like on a football sideline
or in a boxing ring, there's a just a battery
of questions. I'll be asking like who are you, do
you know where you are? Um? And if they say
something like you know, I'm playing football, they need to
(05:52):
get a little more specific than that, what city are
we in, what team are we playing? Right? And it's
time to get out of the game, right, which is
kind of a it's it's difficult. Actually, did you see
that testimony by Ray Lewis. Yeah, Hey, they were talking
about getting out of the game, and you know, even
(06:12):
knowing just a little bit that we know now about concussions,
Lewis was still like, depends on what's going on in
the game, you know, Um, from what what I understand,
if you have a concussion, you don't go back in
that game. Well, as of yesterday, that's the new rule,
is it. Yes, let's talk about then Let's let's back
(06:33):
up a second, because the NFL has long um been
not too sensitive to concussions and taking a lot of
heat over the years for having their team doctors allow
guys to go back into soon or leading up to
the player who you know, wildly under reports concussions NFL
players do, or all athletes, I would imagine, and uh,
(06:56):
there's a guy named John McKay and he was on
the San Diego Chargers in the early seventies. Sadly, he
played with a guy named Ralph Winzel Uh for the
entire nineteen seventy two season and neither one of them
remember playing with each other as teammates. Wow, very sad.
So McKay's wife led this charge. Um to get this
(07:18):
on the NFL's radar, because she started making calls and found,
she said, at least twenty people whose husbands were suffering
from Alzheimer's in early dementia. And we're talking age. There's
others that are suffering as early as their thirties and forties.
So um, she wrote Commissioner Tagliboo at the time a letter.
(07:39):
He got the ball rolling and they created the plan
which was McKay's number, and they now families can receive
up to eighty eight thousand dollars a year for care
if they from the NFL. Yeah, if they qualify. That's
so that happened. And then two days ago the NFL
because the concussions have been big news this year, especially
(08:00):
lot of high profile guys Ben Roethlisberger for the Steelers
and a couple of other high profile dudes have been
concussed Hurt Warner, and the new rule takes effect this week.
It's like an immediate rule, which is unusual. And uh,
if you have fleeting symptoms you're allowed to return to
the game, but if you have amnesia, poor balance, or
an abnormal neurological examination, you cannot go back into the
(08:24):
game at all. That's that's a good rule. It's very
good rule. Although from what Chris Jones says, if you've
been concussed, if you show any evidence of concussion, you
shouldn't be going back into the game at all. Well yeah, sure,
I guess baby steps right. And I think they're also
bringing in for the post game evaluations after, you know,
the coming days after uh. They have now required this
(08:46):
independent doctors have to perform the test and not the
team doctor, because if you've seen any given Sunday, I
think the notion of the team doctor is kind of
a joke. In the NFL UM I read about an
other group of ex athletes led by a guy named
Kris Nowinski. He played football for Harvard, but then he
(09:07):
went onto the w w E and he had several
concussions and then took a kick to the chin and
that was it lights out for him career. Over um
and he started to read studies on concussions because he
had like headaches for five years and depressed depressions. A
big big part of comorbidity of concussions UM. And he
(09:29):
ended up founding the Sports Legacy Institute with a guy
named Dr Robert Cantu, who I know, whose name you'll
recognize because he founded one of the UM I guess
indices for grading UH concussions. Yes, um. But they they
got together and created the Sports Legacy Institute, and they
(09:52):
take donations of ex football players brains once they die
for study and the study that they've been doing together.
So basically no Winsky recruits families to donate their dead,
you know, football players brains, and then Canto turns around
(10:12):
and dissects the brains at this place called the Center
for the Study of Traumatic Encephalopathy, which he co directs.
And this group, the c s t E are finding
some really startling stuff in the brains of people who
are like forty fifty. They got their hands on a
brain of an eighteen year old kid who was a
(10:33):
multi sports athlete died at eight team. They got his brain,
and he his brain and the other brains that they've
looked at so far all look like eighty year old
UM Alzheimer's patients brains. Well that's I was just about
to say those Philadelphia Eagle former Eagle named Andre Waters
that committed suicide last year. He was forty four, and
they said the same thing. He had the brain of
(10:55):
an eight year old Alzheimer's patient. Yeah, and he's not
the only one. He committed suicide. UM. Some other guys
have been drinking themselves to death. UM. A guy named
Ted Johnson who used to play for the Pats um
has pre he's donated his brain when he dies. H
And I think he's in his like thirties or early forties.
And um, he spent two years with his curtains clothes
(11:18):
hold up in his house from just major depression. M
sad Man. I'm a huge NFL fan. It's just you
always hear about and these are just the head injuries.
You always hear about these old warriors from before they
made a ton of money that are like destitute and
they can't walk. And that's what they think that that's
another thing in an ability to work to manage money
(11:38):
like that maybe one of the reasons why a lot
of these guys go bankrupt. It's like eight or seventy
of NFL players go bankrupts in like four years actually
after leaving well the average uh lifespan of or not lifespan,
but tenure of an NFL player is really short. I
mean it's like two or two seasons or something especial. See,
(12:00):
if you've suffered multiple concussions, Apparently one concussion, your brain
can restore its faculties, can umully itself. Yeah, but if
you have a concussion, then you you have a secondary
concussion um before the first one has time to heal,
or you have multiple concussions over your lifetime, you're in
deep trouble. Yes, Josh, that what you just talked about.
(12:22):
When you have the second one before the first one heal,
that is called potentially second impact syndrome, and you can die. Yeah,
that's way worse because the what the arteries in the
brain swell. Yeah, it's it triggers a train, a chain reaction.
It starts with the disordered cerebral vascular autoregulation, and that
(12:43):
means the brain loses its ability to keep the rhine
amount of blood pressure basically, so the brain swells and
that leads to UH congestion and pressure and herniation and death. Yeah.
Once once your brain stem is herniated, once it's um
no longer getting it supply of blood and oxygen and
everything it needs. You know, there goes your breathing and
(13:04):
your heartbeat and all the very primal basic stuff that's
controlled by the brainstem. I'm surprised this hasn't happened yet,
and I'm surprised actually what brains herniation. I'm surprised an
NFL player has not died on the football field yet.
That's shocking to me that that has not happened. And
I think it's gonna take something like that. Unfortunately, although
(13:25):
that they're going in the right direction now, I used
to think that it would take something that drastic to
really make drastic changes. Maybe who knows. Maybe it's not
that much of a blood sport. It's very physical support.
But you know, people don't go out like hockey. Yeah,
people want to see somebody get their throat slit by Like,
did you never saw that that happened where hockey goalie
(13:48):
had his jugular vein cut in a in a hockey game.
Is it on video somewhere? It's gotta be. I saw
it on TV when it happened, like it was a
while ago, was probably ten years ago. But the guy
like Ben down on his knees and grabs his throat
and in like three seconds you see a pool of
blood go from like a drop to like eight feet
in diameter. Now he didn't die. In fact, he was
(14:10):
back with the team the next day. They sewed him,
sewed him up and like refilled the pump full blood
and he was good to go. There you go. Yeah, man,
what a time to be alive. So we should talk
about treatment and uh stuff like that, okay, because you know,
if it's not just NFL players you get concussed at home,
your kid can easily get concussed. The leading head injury
(14:35):
for children. Yeah, I wanted to mention that, Chuck, Like,
we've been talking about the NFL, but the NFL isn't
the only group out there playing football. Um, there's tons
of kids. And actually I was reading an article by
forward right who you don't want to see? Have you
ever seen a picture of Frank Nafford. It's one of
those ones where you're like, man, I wish I didn't
see that. This is nothing like what I thought the
(14:56):
guy looked like. And really that's what Frank l DeFord
looks like. Wow, I know I have seen him, actually have,
but like your local shopping mall like change. Um Well,
he wrote an article about concussions and he was basically
goating the NFL into doing something. Um And he also
(15:17):
points out that it's not just the NFL who like suiting.
Up at one point two million high school students every
year play football, and they apparently are much more prone
to concussions than older guys because they're like the impacts
are actually at a higher velocity than in the NFL
because they're not worried about their careers, are trying to
(15:37):
get to the career, so they're killing anybody who gets
in their way, Whereas an NFL player would be more
likely to Number one, he knows his way around the
football field, he knows what he's doing. He's been playing
for a long time, right And number two he's worried
about making it out the next Sunday. Two, so's gonna
take it a little easier on himself too. Well, maybe
they also under report in the NFL, though, just because
(15:58):
they don't want to like kind word. Called out Ben
Roethlisberger last week for being a wuss basically for not
playing because he had headaches. A week later, come on, heinz, Yeah,
he felt bad for it. He did. Yeah, good he should.
Um so Chuck, Yes, we were talking about treatment. Yes, Josh.
The first thing you should do if you even suspect
(16:18):
your concussed is stop whatever the heck you were doing
to get concussed. Do not drop and roll either, just stop.
Just just stop at the stop no movement. And if
you should also we should also mentioned that whole thing
about don't go to sleep if you're concussed. Not true, No,
it's not rest is actually exactly what you know. Chris
points out sleep deprivation is not a good treatment for
a concussion. I wouldn't think so. So you should stop
(16:40):
what you're doing immediately. Um, if you think it's could
possibly be worse than a concussion, you should, you know,
immediately go to the doctor. Probably get a CT scan
or mri I. Although the weird thing is that they
can't you can't see a concussion, right like you can't
diagnose a concussion from an m r I or CT scan.
What they're doing when they do skin you was ruling
(17:02):
out other types of um traumatic brain injury, Yeah, like
internal bleeding and that kind of thing. So, uh, a
minority of uh the cases you you will have something
called post concussion syndrome, and that can be a couple
of weeks or months of side effects basically prolonged everything
we talked about, fatigue, dizziness, confusion, nausea, that kind of thing.
(17:24):
But that doesn't always happen. That's why concussions are like
still sort of a mystery. Sometimes it sometimes it happens,
sometimes it doesn't. Some some people recover faster than others.
It's really hard to diagnose, like you said, because you
can't see it and people under report it. So it's
really you're up against the battle here trying to get
it diagnosed and treated correctly. Definitely, but I think groups
(17:44):
like um, the cst E is that what it was called. Sure, Yeah,
I think so. Um they you know, once, once they've
been cracking open the brains, I think the mysteries are
starting to be solved a little more. Um. We talked
about how they look like the brains of Alzheimer's patients.
One of the reasons they draw that comparison is not
just because the symptoms are the same. They actually have
(18:08):
protein tangles that are characteristic of Alzheimer's in the brains
of multiple concussion sufferers. UM, so they're they're the brains
can't communicate the brain, the neurons can't communicate with each
other any longer. Basically, stuff, these protein buildups that should
have been carried out his waist aren't any longer. And
(18:28):
now they're just coming up the works, which can actually
kill the brain cells, which leads to brain death, which
leads to death. Wow. Yeah, much more serious. And people think,
have you ever been concussed? I don't think I have.
I think I have been a couple of times. My
little girlfriend has. Really Yeah, I got hit in the
head with a softball bat once and I've never had
(18:49):
my bell rung like that before. Yeah, not like Managine,
like the dude was in the on deck circle and
I walked up and didn't see him right there? Did
you go unconscious? But I staggered and you know, saw
angels above my head. Actually, I may have been concussed
because I had the same the same symptoms after I
(19:12):
was shooting it a little propane tank with the high
powered rifle. I'm not kidding. We should say you should
never ever do something that you think that this. Every
podcast should start out with a disclaimer, like, don't do
what Josh talks about. Um and I didn't have the
stock against your shoulder from onst my shoulders. I had
(19:33):
an under in my armpit and the thing had a
scope and it was to boom, and um, I just
looked at my friend and handed him the gun and
kind of staggered off. And yeah, I was seeing all
sorts of chicks on YouTube. If you searched girl with shotgun,
there's like hundreds of videos of girls that don't know
how to shoot a rifle properly and getting knocked out.
(19:54):
That's exactly who And it is not funny on YouTube.
It's funny because they put the I didn't get knocked out,
but I still have a scar. You see, I see
the little crescent right there, that's from the scope. Yeah,
I bet we've both been concussed. Jerry's like, let's move along.
Who cares if you've been concussed. We should finish up
Josh with a little debate. There's some debate in the
(20:15):
medical community about whether it is a structural or functional
issue with the damage. Yeah, I think I think that
the opening up of the brains is starting to show
that it's um structural. And do you think so? Yeah,
the protein tangles is definitely structural. But I guess it
would be both because it's in the structural changes are
interfering with the function. Well yeah, but some people say
(20:36):
that since a concussion is short lived and you fully recover,
then it may not be structural. Maybe it's from multiple
concussions or the severity of the concussion. That'd be my guess. Yea,
they both have good points. Do you got anything else, buddy?
Uh No, that's about it. I think where your bicycle helmets? Kids?
That's another one. Always always wear your seatbelt. Auto accidents
(20:58):
are another major source of concussions. Horseback riding incidents, yeah,
bikes are huge though. Bikes sure, Um, falling in any
any little kids too are in particular danger because they
haven't gotten their their their coordination, they don't have their
sea legs yet, so they fall over, hit their head
and then actually they can prevent their development further on
(21:20):
in life. Right Um yeah, I think, uh, just being
smart and trying to keep your head safe. And and kids,
if you're out there playing like touch football and you
get you know, tackled, and your head hits the ground
real hard, seriously, stop playing. Your friends might make fun
of you, but you know, tell him if bign Roethlisberger
(21:41):
can take himself out of a game that I can.
That's what I would say. That's good stuff. Who's ah,
So that's concussions uh. And if you want to learn
more about it, you might want to type the word
concussion uh into the handy search bar how stuff works
dot com. Uh. And always listen to your uncle Chuck too.
That was really good advice, Chuck. Thank you, Josh. So
(22:03):
this means it's time for listener Mayo. I'm a professional uncle,
by the way, uncle to Reagan Shelby Abbey and no one,
I don't know that your professional or you paid for that. No,
but I'm good at it. I'm sure you are. It's
a good it's a good gig, all right. I've got
two quickies from two cute little kids who wrote and
(22:27):
I can never turn these down? Are you uncle to
these kids? Now? This comes from Will in Arlington, Virginia.
He's twelve. Hi, guys. After hearing your podcast How Flirting Works,
I realized how much I flirt with girls on a
daily basis. With me being twelve and relationships and dates
being just around the corner, I feel middle school would
(22:47):
be the perfect time to fetch myself a gal. You're kidding.
I know. I was not like this when I was twelve.
I was like meet girls? Uh? Was that me when
I was swell for me? Thank God I'm married. I
do like some girls, but I'm too shy to tell them.
I also think some girls like me, but they're too
shy to tell me. I feel left out, So please
(23:09):
help me. Did you give me some tips on getting
a girl? Maybe some things I should do or tell
them and know, Josh, I will not moon them. Could
you give me a shout out as well? Then any
girls who like me, we'll hear the shout out and
they will be impressed. So this is the shout out.
Did you didn't say his last name? Did you don't
think we're out to just Will in Arlington, Virginia twelve?
(23:31):
So will We'll say? Like we said in the Flirting podcast,
that my advice at your age, my friend, if you
want to get ahead of the game, be nice to girls,
because a lot of guys that age think it's fun
to kind of tease and not be nice to girls.
And you learned later on that being nice to girls
will get you farther. You learn that now, little buddy,
then you will be ahead of your peers. That's great again,
(23:53):
great advice, Chuck and be funny. That was the other one, right,
Sure you got anything? Uh? Confidence will confidence? Have comp vidence,
and don't just fetch a gal. To fetch a gal,
make sure that you like the girl and she likes you,
and you both treat each other right, and just go
from there. But treat her with respect. You'll fetch a gal,
all right? Sure? Okay, so this comes from this next
(24:14):
one is from Katie, who was a freshman in high
school in Florida. Unfortunately, because she could potentially be hooked
up with will Uh, Katie wrote us a poem. I
was really sad when Hiku theater ended, which it has,
and I wanted to write in with a poem, but
didn't have the inspiration. Luckily a bird provided. That's life
for me to write this for you guys, Could you
read this one? It's very good, oh bird, Your short
(24:38):
or long existence may or may not have been wonderful.
Your mate, girlfriend or mother will miss you. Parentheses, maybe
we will mourn you forever or until we forget. We
will never forget your plight to get to the cafeteria.
But alas the window was in the way the windex
it is clean with is your murderer. Your vengeance will
(24:59):
go und and we aren't sorry at all. Dear bird,
all your dreams were broken in an instant like your neck. Oh,
dear Bertie, your life is over now, and that is awesome.
It is. That's Kate, Katie, Katie. He's a freshman in
high school in uh Florida. Katie hates birds. Concussed bird,
(25:21):
which is no debt. So those are two cute little
kids that wrote in and they like that. Thank you both,
Katie and Will and all of our young listeners. We
think very highly of you. And you know what, let's
send to leave at that. We think highly of all
of our listeners, don't each other. We also think especially
highly of our listeners who donate to Kiva. Yeah, Keiva
(25:41):
dot org. We have a membership loan team. Yeah you heard.
Our team is so serious. It's awesome too. Do We
almost have one thousand members on our team almost. I
think that makes us like the tenth largest something like that.
Pretty cool. Um, So yeah, if you want to join
our Keiva team, we'd love it if you did. Um.
(26:01):
You can make a donation as low as twenty five
bucks and it gets repaid. Kiva also has gift certificates
for Christmas. For Christmas or any holiday that you give
a gift on right chunture, you can go to www
dot kiva dot org, slash team slash stuff you Should
Know and join and donate right and if you want
(26:23):
to send Chuck in Eye an email um whether you
are twelve, fourteen eighty two or the wholdest living person
on the planet, you can send that to Stuff podcast
at how stuff works dot com. For more on this
and thousands of other topics, is it how stuff works
dot com. Want more how stuff works, check out our
(26:46):
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