February 13, 2025 • 53 mins
Operation Flagship was undertaken at a time when the U.S. Marshals performed their jobs with a lot of flair. What other agency would throw a football party in order to arrest a handful of (mostly) non-violent criminals?
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's
Chuck and Cherry's here too, And this is stuff you
should know, the Freeze edition.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Yeah, you know what. The addition this is, this is
the law enforcement sometimes thinks they're so cute and clever. Addition, Right, man,
I can't wait to point out how many cutesy little
names and acronyms pop up in this story and this
and a lesson. If you're a criminal and you ever
(00:41):
think something might be shady and it might be a
sting operation, just look at any name that they've given
you and like read it backwards or see if it
spells an acronym that says like we nabbed you, buddy
or something like that. Like that's that's how cutesy they
got is And you'll see. I'll just throw that out
there and we'll talk about him as they pop up.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Yeah, and there's our daily assistance in helping criminals. A
vague capture by law enforcement.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Yeah, was that what I was doing? I certainly was,
all right.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Movie, So we're talking about one specific operation, Operation Flagship,
which was conducted by the US Marshall Service back in
I think nineteen eighty five, and it's just kind of
mind boggling. Where did you hear about this? Did somebody
write in or did you already know about it? Being
an NFL fan?
Speaker 1 (01:30):
And yeah, you know what, I'm not sure now that
I think of it. This may have been a listener
request and I'm going to look that up real quick
because i hate not shouting people out.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Yeah, I'm with you when that happens, Well, how I
keep talking while you look?
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Okay?
Speaker 2 (01:50):
So, the US Marshall Service, they're one of the first
American law enforcement agencies. They were founded back in seventeen
eighty nine. Dave helped us with this, Dave Week by
the way, as Dave put it, in the time of
George Washington. So they've been around quite a bit, and
over the course of this history, like, they've done a
lot of different really kind of great stuff. They escorted
(02:15):
students into the first segregated schools, Black students to segregated schools,
They protected them. They enforced prohibition, which I guess, depending
on your views on prohibition, it was great or not.
They operated the US Census, which seems like they were
at the time just really looking for busy wet for
the Marshall service.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Yes, just give them a bunch of pencils.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Right, and then in turnal loose and then famously chuck
anytime you hear somebody call like a wild West law
enforcement guy Marshall. They were a US marshal. That was
one of the roles they played. They served as the
long arm of the law and the wild West era
of American history.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Yeah, so they did a lot of things. They found
a lot of busy work for them to do over
the years. These days, did you mention witness protection?
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Not yet?
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Yeah, I mean basically these days they take care of
witness the witness They run the Witness Security Program aka
witness Protection. If you see prisoners being transported like to
court or something, those are marshals doing that and there
since seventy nine they've been in charge of fugitive investigations,
which is to say, basically, anybody with an outstanding warrant
(03:33):
is a fugitive. You don't have to have like escaped prison.
If you're charged with the crime or have been summoned
to testify or something like that and you jump bail,
you don't appear in court. If you escape from custody,
then you're a fugitive, and the US Marshals are going
to try and find you and either put you back
in jail or put you in jail for your very
(03:55):
first time.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Yeah, and Tommy Lee Jones didn't care if you're innocent.
His job is to get you and bring you back
to jail. No, not kill my wife. I don't care.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
This is so great, man, one of the great lines
in movie history.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
So, yeah, you can be a fugitive all sorts of ways,
And regardless of how it is, the US Marshals are
out there to get you. And for the most part,
when they get you, it's because they've tracked you down.
Maybe they got a tip, maybe they just started looking
for you and they found that you're actually at your
last known address. Yeah, and they arrest people quite frequently.
(04:33):
I think I saw that they rounded up like seventy
five thousand fugitives in twenty twenty three or twenty four.
They arrest a lot of people. But for some reason,
during the early to mid eighties, the US Marshall Service
went on what can only be described as a QTSY streak.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Yeah, they said, hey, guys, let's have a little fun
with this.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
They clearly did. I mean like these things. This whole
thing was hatched hours into an office Christmas party in
nineteen seventy nine.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
That's for this, Yeah, for sure, we'll start with our
first QT acronym. In nineteen eighty one, they launched a
program called the Fugitive Investigative Strike Team aka FIST is
they're going to use their fists to get you, that's right.
(05:25):
And their goal was to do fugitive investigations, not just
like one person at a time, but like, let's see
if we can get a lot of these people at
one time, high concentrations of these fugitives and round them
up and bring them in, and how are we going
to do that. We're going to do that with these
really kind of wacky sting operations, which you know, it's
(05:50):
not like they were just out to have fun. There's
a lot of merit to doing something this way. They're
generally cheaper than just one at a time going after
some body. Resource wise, they're safer because usually when you
launch something like this, they're going to be unaware. They're
not going to be they're not gonna have a weapon
on them like they might, you know, behind the door
(06:13):
of their own home that they barely crack open, so
you know, it's cheaper, it's generally a little safer. We're
going to talk about a few examples of these before
we get to Flagship. One very successful one was a
program called Mister Zip and this is just very low five.
They would have Marshalls dressed up as US mail carriers
and they would just knock on your door and say
(06:34):
I got a package for how much Simpson, And they
would produce their ID and sign their name and they
would say thank you. You're under arrest, Yeah it is you.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
I think that was actually in The Fugitive too.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Yeah, that sounds familiar.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Yeah, I mean it's been in a lot of different.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Movies, but like harre your roses that kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Huh exactly.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
So I don't know if this is actually the origin
of it or not, but it certainly seems to be
because I don't get the impression that they did a
lot of this stuff before this era.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Yeah. What about Puno Airlines That was a pretty fun one.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
So Puno means fist in Spanish.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Ugh, right, Sorry, It's just it's also like it's almost
like they wanted people to figure it out.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Yes, that is inherently the problem behind this whole thing
is a lot of this. I was about to say steps,
but I'm just gonna say missteps that happened to work
out in their favor. We're just basically like, hey, criminals,
do you speak Spanish? Do you think anybody would ever
name their airline fist airline? Well, they want to give
(07:40):
you a free weekend to the Bahamas.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
That was the Punos Airlines thing. And I love it,
like I think it's it's cool, like in retrospect, but
when you stop and actually think of it from a
law enforcement perspective, you just you just end up pinching
the bridge of your nose. But it actually worked.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
Yeah, it did. They mailed these fake letters saying they
had won that trip plus three hundred and fifty bucks
in spending money. Fourteen fugitives fell for it, and you know,
they send a limo to your house. It's like a
big sweepstakes basically. And most of them were arrested in
the limo, like the limo driver is a cop and
they just pull over and say you're under arrest. One
(08:17):
guy did make it to the airport at Miami International
and they did have a fake Puno Airlines ticket counter,
so they saw it through. I'll give him that much.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Yeah, for sure. I think it was right next to
air Haiti.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Right, No, for real, that was okay. I never know
when you're joking anymore, so.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
So I know, I'm sorry. I've really with reality. That
was nineteen eighty five. There was another one the year
before fifth seven. Yeah, right, but they would spell it
with Roman numerals and make it look super cool.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
It's so funny.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Because I think this is yeah, this is the era
of the Rocky sequels.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Yeah, Roman numerals were everywhere.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Yeah, that one was enormous. It was a multi state,
multi agency sting operation. There were one hundred and thirteen
Marshalls involved, five ATF agents, one hundred and five police officers,
all from across eight different states, and it involved a
bunch of different scams that really all together were part
(09:18):
of this one big sweep that was just coordinated by
the Marshall Service. There was one pretty straightforward in Buffalo
where they wrote letters to fugitives and said, hey, you
don't know this, but you won ten thousand dollars in
the lottery. You know that lottery. You may or may
(09:38):
not have ever played. Well, you won ten thousand dollars,
but we can't give you the money unless you come
to the Lotto office and show us your ID and
then you can claim your prize.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
That's right, That was one of them. One was a
job scam. It was called the Prior Offenders Employment Opportunity Program,
where they were say like, hey, you're a prior offender, Like,
I know it's hard for you to get a job.
We can get you a job fifteen bucks an hour.
Just call our number and tell us who you are
and where you are, and we'll set your right up.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
That one actually seems like the most effective one because
it almost has like a scam sense to it, like outwardly,
like overtly.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
It may be the meanest too.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
I think so too. I thought the same thing.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Because you might think it's mean to say you've won
tickets to the Bahamas, but it's really mean for someone
to be like, I really want to start my life
over and get a regular job.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Right, and like this number, have we got an opportunity
for you? Yeah, I agree with you. In New York
part of fift seven, their sting was called the Brooklyn
Bridge Delivery service, not to be confused with New York's
finest taxi service, but it's basically the same thing. Their
motto was don't mess with the rest, come to the best,
(10:53):
and it was essentially the same thing as mister Zip
as far as the scam goes. But they would just
leave like we missed you, slips on their door saying
you have a package that you need to come pick up.
And there was a guy involved in this. I can't
remember his name, but oh, Robert Leshorn. He was one
(11:15):
of the chief or deputy chief marshals, and this was
his scam. And so part of it was the criminal
would call to find out where to pick up their package,
and depending on what they were wanted for, he would
tailor what was supposedly in the package. So he said,
like if you were wanted for robbery or theft or something,
(11:37):
it would be like a brand new stereo or something,
so he would tailor, which made sense. And apparently that
worked to a certain extent. But all of these, all
of them pale in comparison to the one that they
ran in Hartford connetic.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Oh, man, I thought you were going in the flagship.
I was like, are you not going to mention, no one.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Not a chance. As a matter of fact, we should
probably just stop after this one, because no scam in
the history of law enforcement ever been greater than this one.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Yeah, this is part of fifth seven in Hartford, Connecticut.
This was Hey, let's do a fake TV station giveaway
where you can win two tickets to a concert plus
dinner and a limo ride. And hey, it's nineteen eighty four.
You're gonna see Van Halen on their a big, huge
rock tour. No no, no, Boy George and Culture Club.
(12:24):
You have won tickets to see Culture Club in nineteen
eighty four, and it worked, apparent. I don't know why
they chose. I don't know if it was geographical, if
Boy George was just like, sure, I'll take part in this,
he probably didn't know anything about it, or if they
did some research, did a little ree and found out
(12:44):
that these dudes love Boy love Culture Club. I don't know.
I have no idea, but that's who it was.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
I saw that part of the package that they won
was also a photo shoot. Saw that in a couple
of places.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
With the Culture Club.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Yeah. And then one of the marshals who helped who
headed up the Hartford Connecticut. Boy George scam said it
was just like one of the other ones, where like
when you went to get picked up by this limo,
right when you got in the limo, they arrested you.
He said. All these people that they got with this
(13:20):
were all dressed up to go to the Culture Club concert.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Oh god, can you imagine what.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
They looked like when they arrived in jail, Like those
feathers that you clipped your ear.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Yeah yeah, like glitter war.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Paint, like on your cheeks, like the whole, the whole shebang.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
I wonder if they said bad Karma chameleon for you,
my friend. I love all the extras too. It wasn't
just like tickets to a concert. It was always like
and dinner and a photo shoot. Like I guess they
really thought they needed to make it something someone couldn't refuse.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
I guess right, How can you refuse a photo shoot
with boy George?
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Yeah, but we laugh. Fist seven netted thirty three hundred
arrests and is the largest fugitive round up in American
history still to this day.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Yeah, thirty two hundred of them came from the boy
George skin.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
That feels like we have to take a break right there.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Right, I think we would be violating some sort of
unwritten rule if we didn't.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Right now, all right, we're going to come back and
talk about one that netted fewer arrest but was definitely
fun in Operation Flagship right after this.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Okay, Chuck, So we're back and we're finally talking about
the titular scam Operation Flagship.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
How do you like that?
Speaker 1 (14:59):
That's pretty good. I love the word titular.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
Thank you. It's arousing. There's another word for it, but
let's just say a rousing.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Yeah. Yeah, this was thought up. It was a brain
shout of a guy named Howard Sephir. He was head
of Enforcement Operations at the time. Seven was a big,
big success, and he's like, what at the Christmas party,
he's a little toasty and said, what has everybody got?
He had too much of Grandma's Christmas breath and he said,
what's everyone got? I need some fun ideas. And Robert Leshorn,
(15:28):
the guy, the Brooklyn Bridge delivery service guy, still basking
in the glow of those tailor made packages to the criminals,
he apparently came up with this idea and it was
football tickets. One of the hottest tickets in football at
the time. In nineteen eighty five, was there at RFK
(15:49):
Stadium for what was then the Washington Redskins. I'm now
the Washington Commander since the name change, but there were
the Redskins then. They had won the Super Bowl, beat
the Dolphins in eighty three, lost to the Raiders in
the Super Bowl in eighty four. In eighty five, expectations
were high. Yeah, season tickets, twenty five year waiting list
(16:10):
for season tickets. Every game is sold out at RFK,
and so offering up free tickets to criminals in the
DC area seemed like a no brainer.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
Yeah. This particular game versus the Bengals in December fifteenth,
nineteen eighty five, it was to whoever won was going
to win a wild card playoff berth. Yeah, which has significance.
So it was an important game.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
Oh Doude, I feel like, I don't know, you should
get a little gold star for your football knowledge right here.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Thank you. Also not to mention too. I mean, even
looking back, you're like, wow, these guys were great, But
at the time these two were at the peak of
their careers. It was thisman versus Asia Sin As far
as the quarterbacks went theesman. Is it really?
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Yeah? The story goes it was Joe Theisman and in
college he changed it to thighsman to rhyme with heisman.
Oh really that's what they say.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Huh.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
I'm not I'm not.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Sure he win the Heisman. I mean he's man.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Oh you know, I'm actually not sure if he did
or not. But his leg got snapped on National TV.
I was watching that game. It was horrific.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Wasn't that a super Bowl?
Speaker 1 (17:21):
No? No, no, no, was in a super Bowl?
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Yeah? That was horrific. I mean it was a compound
fracture that came out of his thigh, right.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
I don't think it was his thigh. I think it
was a lower leg, but I just I remember it was.
That was the first horrific injury that I saw on
TV that, even though I didn't know it at the time,
activated my mirror neurons in a way that was quite striking.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
One of the ones that got me there was a
Miami Hurricanes player in early two thousands and he was
like running down the sideline and somebody dove to knock
him out of well, out of bounce, bounce, and and
they got him right and his knee, and his knee
(18:06):
turned into like his whole his whole leg, but the
apex was his knee just turned into a rubber band
that went really far to the left.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
And it's always so disturbing.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
It was they kept showing like this was this is
the zeitgeist at the time. They showed that injury in
slow motion fifteen times.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Yeah, the dude was.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Laying on the field. They didn't cut to anything. They
just kept showing it over and over like it was
a new volume of Faces of Death or something like that.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Yeah, they did that for up until not too too
long ago, and then they stopped. Anytime there's a serious
injury like that, they're like, uh, we're not you know,
we don't show the replays of these things anymore, but.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
We probably shouldn't feed the bloodblust.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
Yeah exactly.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
But yeah, so anyway, that was that was It's forever
burned into my brain that image. And I don't think
he broke anything. He just apparently has like the most flexible,
resilient leg of any.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
So he was fine.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Yeah, I don't know if he was fine. I don't
remember that. I just remember like, I don't think he
was like anything. Broke. It just went breo.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
Oh was that old rubbernee Richards.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Yeah, yeah, but ironically I think he had the nickname
before that because he could play the rubber bands on
his knee.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
This has gotten so off the rails.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Oh yeah, we're talking about the cops.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
And yeah, that's right, all right, So we're back to
Robert Leshorn. He's the one that came up with this
idea to give away these tickets. He said, here's what
we'll do. We'll create a fake TV station, like a
rock music TV station, like a local MTV, basically w
RC Video, and that's gonna head up this whole thing,
(19:46):
the pri and this is where they get cute again.
The prize letters that they sent out were signed by
station manager I am debt naw. If you'd spell that backwards,
it is I am wanted get it.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
And then the guy who they said you had to
call in or whatever, the business manager that took the
phone call. His name was Marcus kran cr a n
spelled backwards as narc no yes, and supposedly, and I
did not verify this, but there was one source that
said the whole music when you called was I fought
(20:22):
the law and the law one by Bobby Fuller. Yeah,
and I was like, come on, like really.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Right, so even if even taking that one out, it
is one hundred percent confirmed that they signed it. I
am wanted backwards. I am Debton. Aw Yeah the cran
thing is that pretty much one hundred percent?
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Oh yeah, I mean it's in the NFL Films documentary.
You see the guy typing that name in a computer.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Yeah, so like this is like, these are the things
that they're doing to just make it like a whole
tee thing right right to where if you again, for
no reason back, no reason but to amuse themselves like
there's no reason. As we'll see. I'm sure part of
the reason also was for the media blitz that they
knew was coming after they shut this off. Yeah yeah,
(21:05):
but not only is there really no reason for it,
you're actually sacrificing potential captures.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Yeah, because there's you're tempting faith.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Some of these people have wives. All you had to
do was show your wife that letter and say it
says wanted backwards. You know, hey, dummy, Yeah, how many
of these people were like fell through the drag net
because they saw yeah, debtnas wanted backwards. And they're like,
I think this is not legitimate.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
Yeah. Yeah, They mailed out three thousand of these letters
to fugitives for a total of seventeen outstanding warrants. Between
those three thousand said you won this thing plus a
grand prize drawing for Super Bowl tickets. That year, the
flagship International Sports television was the fake station Fist. So
(21:57):
they did it again. About half the letters came back
return to Cender. The others again were told to call
Marcus Kran to confirm their attendance. And a few of
the people that called in were like, wait a minute,
this is the cops. But out of the three thousand,
it's not very many. Apparently about one hundred and sixty
(22:19):
people RSVP'd, which would still be a pretty good take,
I guess. And they said, all right, come on down
to the Washington Convention Center at nine am on game day.
We're going to have a big brunch and a big
party and then shuttle you over to the game.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Yes, and I thought something you mentioned is worth emphasizing.
That being entered in a grand prize drawing for tickets
to Super Bowl twenty in New Orleans, Yeah, that actually
struck me as a really nice touch because now you've
moved the focus a little further out and you're diluting
the focus that's being paid to this most immediate thing,
(22:54):
so they're thinking about something else as well. Really, I
thought that really was a good touch. Yeah, So to
get prepared for this whole thing, they held three different
dress rehearsals. That's dedicated for sure, because this is a
big production. And it was smart that they held three
different dress rehearsals because again there's a lot of moving parts.
(23:16):
There's a ton of different cops. I think one hundred
and sixty six different agents were involved.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
They were all cops. Everyone there was a cop. Like
the bus boy was a cop, the you know, person
serving your drink was a cop.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
Yeah, the janitors were cops. Everybody was cops. Like when
you walked into the Washington Convention Center that day, there
was no one who wasn't a cop, a wanted fugitive
or the plus one of the wanted fugitive exactly had
the haplessness of being brought along to this.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
Whole Yeah, there real victims.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
Yeah, So they rehearsed it many, many times. And one
of the things I saw of these one hundred and
sixty six law enforcement agents that were part of this.
A lot of them were brought in from out of
state because they didn't want to risk some of these
fugitives from recognizing the marshals who say, like, we're in
the courtroom with them when they were first brought to
(24:09):
trial or had escorted them from jail to prison before
they escaped or something like that. So they brought in
a lot of ringers from around the country. So there
was a lot of cops working from a lot of
different offices all for this one huge scam operation Flagship.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Yeah, they had to shave a lot of about half
of their mustaches.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
If you watch, I mean, you can see this whole thing.
It's only like twelve minutes long. An NFL Films documentary
on this on YouTube or wherever, and you can watch
the whole thing play out. It's incredible. But they look
that looks like a room staffed with one hundred and
sixty six cops dressed up as different things.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
Yeah. I made it through up to I think minute three.
It's like, I cannot watch law enforcement try to play
a tongue in cheek. It's just I can't do it.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Yeah, even the cheerleaders who were not dressed as cheerleaders.
They were dressed in tuxedos. Like everyone there was wearing
a tux which was hysterical because you know, it was
nineteen eighty five, that's the epitome of class. But they
were all cops. And the one of the women that
was interviewed, she was like, I didn't want to do
a cheerleader. She was like, I was in this. I
(25:19):
was a US marshal. I wanted I was rough and tumble,
and I wanted to, you know, throw some guys on
the ground and put the cuffs on them. But they
were like, no, we need you to be a cheerleader,
and you're actually the first line of defense because what
they did was they hugged these guys upon greeting, like hey,
we're cheerleaders. Hug, hug, hug, and they're sort of patting
them down and feeling for weapons, right, which is amazing.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
Well, was that there was some movie where they do
that's a great comedic effect. Really yeah, I can't remember,
but they're they're like hugging people while patting them down,
but like just clearly patting them down. Maning me crazy.
You'll think of it later or somebody you'll email and
I'll be at least one person does. Yeah. So yeah,
(26:00):
like we said, everybody there who was in this building
was a cop, including the San Diego chicken.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
Yeah, was armed.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Was an armed cop. That just goes to show you
how big the San Diego chicken was in the early
to mid eighties that they were like, bring the San
Diego chicken in for this Washington Cincinnati football game on
the other side of the country. Make sure the San
Diego chickens there, just to legitimize things.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Yeah, because that was the chicken was for the Padres,
not the Chargers, even at the time.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
The only explanation I saw in the video was they
said something about Santa Claus was going to be there,
and I don't know why. This is the part that
has no explanation. He said, Oh, we were like, we
can't have Santa Claus, so let's get the San Diego chicken.
And I was like, he said that as if that
was the most reasonable statement he could make.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
Really, that's hilarious.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
It's very funny.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
That shows a little heart.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
I should also say I poked fun at law enforcement
trying to be funny. So I looked up see if
there's any cops turned comedians, and there are.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
Sure, I bet there are, And I bet that's their
whole act.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
I don't know if it is or not, but I
can just tell you to go out and check these
guys out. There's Kevin, Jordan child Ridgeley who went on
to be a Groundling, Jeff Perry, Sir Perry, Alfy Moore,
and I defy you to find the one Brit out
of those.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
Yeah, I bet it's not Alfie all right, So I'm
a Bulby right.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Wow, that was a great Alfie More impression.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
He's the kind of guy that talks like that, I
think anyway.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
I just wanted to toss that out there because very nice.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
Thanks Leshorn. As for his part, he's in the video
he's saying like, nobody can act like a cop. Here
we got a smile, And he says in this in
the NFL film saying, he goes, I know we're not
used to smiling at bandits, but today we need to.
I was like, bandits, what is happening in nineteen eighty five?
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Yeah, he said, no one can act like a cop.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Kill him with smiles, right, yeah, not with a planted gun.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Right right, Oh my gods. So, like I said, there's
a lot of moving parts in a sting where you're
trying to nab one hundred sixty or so criminals all
at once. Again, they rehearsed at three different times, but
there's still tons of X factors that can crop up
that you just can't plan for. And one of the
reasons why they were really kind of on edge is
(28:27):
some of these criminals who they'd invited were pretty hardcore.
There were like arm drobbers, rapists. There was one murderer
in particular who had escaped from prison. He and two
other guys had dressed up as security or not security guards,
prison guards, and they from what I was reading, they
(28:49):
have no idea where they got these prison guard uniforms,
but they managed to escape. The other two guys got caught.
The other guy, Charles Watkins, again who was in on murder.
He had become a fugitive and was on it as
a top ten fugitive in the DC area, So he
was a big fish that they were trying to reel in.
But at the same time, this guy's a murderer on
the run. You have no idea what he's gonna do.
(29:10):
So she really had to kind of keep it tight
as much as possible. I say that before we get
to the actual day, December fifteenth, nineteen eighty five. Yeah,
we take another break.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
All right, let's do it. Alrighty, we are back. It
(29:47):
is not Christmas, but it certainly feels like it. In
nineteen eighty five, it's December fifteenth. The Washington Convention Center
is decked out. There's a big TV plan highlight so
of the redskins seasoned thus far. There's music playing. Everyone's
in those tuxes. They got red and gold balloons they're
(30:08):
handing out. It's really fun to watch this thing play out.
You've got these cheerleaders hugging and patting these guys, these
guys down. One guy is like leaning in trying to
kiss the one of the women, and she's just like
pulling her face away and still has her arm around it.
In fact, she actually Stasia Hilton. She was a US Marshall,
(30:29):
the cheerleader that they interviewed, or fake cheerleader, and later
on she had gotten out and was brought back into
the service as an appointment as Director of US Marshall
Service by President Obama.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
Yeah, but so for this day. She's a Redskins cheerleader, yeah, exactly.
So what they would do is the cheerleaders would hug
you as you were coming in. Would not accept kiss
as it turns out, but they would hug you, pat
you down, although you weren't supposed to know that you
were being padded down. They would wrecked you toward a table.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
She's a good hugger, right exactly.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
Very thorough so they would they would pour you to
this table where you would check in and to claim
your prize. To make sure you were you, you had
to show positive ID. And then when they when they
verified that you were on the list, meaning that you
were a wanted fugitive who just showed up to claim
your two free tickets to the Washington Redskins football game,
(31:26):
they would give you a name tag and the name
tag would say confirmed winner. And then if you were
a dangerous criminal, they would give you a name tag
that said double winner. And they could not find anywhere
how they would explain why somebody was a double winner
and not just a confirmed winner, right exactly, Like why me?
(31:49):
I have no idea what they said. Surely they had
to say something, but I could not find It's lost
to history.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
He said, your dangersly close to winning the Super Bowl
tickets too. That's great, that's how they do it in
the movie. At least so one person came that was
not expected. It was an attorney from a local TV
station that had the local broadcast rights to the games.
(32:16):
He heard about this flagship International Sports Television aka FIST,
and he was like, wait a minute, they can't do this.
He shows up with this in my mind exactly, he
shows up with the season desisted letter and the cops
got him out of there. They were like, here, why
don't you go have a talk with these two cheerleaders.
You're like, buddy, you're gonna blow our cover here.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
Yeah. They they shot him in the leg.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
Yeah, he hobbled out of there.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
No, they took him outside. They had to keep it
under rap. So, okay, you want to talk about unexpected guests?
Speaker 1 (32:47):
Sure?
Speaker 2 (32:47):
Do you want to know the definition of a scumbag?
Speaker 1 (32:51):
Sure?
Speaker 2 (32:51):
A fugitive who gets caught up in the dragnet of
a scam carried out by the US Marshall Service in
nineteen eighty five and shows up without bothering to RSVP.
There were fifteen of them.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
That's funny. They just came.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Yep, they just showed up, didn't even bother to RSVP.
It just got under my skin when I saw.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
That this is bad manners for sure.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
So there was a decent amount of people in this
convention center. I mean one hundred and something one hundred
fifty cops I think one hundred and sixty a little
over one cop to one fugitive. And then most of
these fugitives had a plus one, if not all of them.
So there was hundreds of people in this convention center.
(33:42):
And like you said, it was a big party atmosphere,
but right under the surface there's a bunch of people
with guns ready to like take you to jail. But
the problem is you can't just round everybody up all
at once, right, So what they did was pretty clever.
They would take fifteen to twenty winners at a time
to one of like the separate conference rooms in this
convention center, which really it made me nostalgic, chuck, because
(34:04):
we played a show or two in the conference room
of a convention center, you know, yeah Australia Australia's yeah, yeah, yeah.
And they would sit him down and they would present
them with some I guess spiel to start as they
shut the doors and everybody's settling into their chairs.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
Yeah, this is Louis McKinney. He's on a stage. And
then again this is just like, hey, this is the
party room where we're going to get your actual tickets.
And he's the MC, he's the Master of Ceremonies. He's
he's wearing a top hat, a literal black top hat.
And he doesn't just go up there and say you're
all under arrest. He settles everyone down. He said he
wanted everyone to kind of get settled in and call him.
(34:44):
So he's just doing a bit. He's doing stage work
about how excited everyone is and getting everyone like pumped up.
And then and you can literally watch this happen, he
says on behalf of Flagship International, we have a big
surprise for you this morning. Everybody's under arrest. And you
see behind the doors, you see all these like SWAT
(35:05):
cops is their version of the SWAT, their SOG Special
Operations Group that didn't spell anything clever. They're like literally
have literal shotguns and they're just like they're right behind
the door. Yeah, yeah, exactly. They repel in through the windows,
you know, break through the windows. No, they just they
literally just like kick in the door and go running
(35:25):
in with shotguns. And you see these guys that like
about a third of them like immediately sort of put
their hands on their heads as they were being directed
to and get on the ground, and about a third
of them are like, what's happening here.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
Is this part of the.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
Yeah, they didn't know what was going on, but you know,
soon enough they had them, you know, face down on
the floor.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
Yeah, arresting violently.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
Oh yeah, yeah, fifteen people at a time, then escort
thing amount a different door, and just you know, keep
doing that over and over until they got everybody.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
I have to say something really quick. While I was
researching this, I had a great little brush with coincidence
that I was reading. I got to that part where
McKinney says everybody's under arrest, and it just happened to
be listening to the Beach Boys Smile album at the time.
It's not something I've listened to a lot. I just
happened to decide to listen to that while I was
(36:15):
researching this, and within seconds of reading that part, it
reaches the part in the Beach Boys album where they
say you're under arrest. Wow, is that it's fourth I
mean that's something, right, I mean, that's not your everyday coincidence.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
No, I love stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
I do too. So anyway, back to the story, Dave,
like I said, helped us with this, and he wondered
something that I did as well. What happened to all
the all the guests who are like the crowd of
plus ones are getting left behind in larger and larger
droves as this party room is like you know, set
and reset, and people get taken out of the back
(36:52):
door to jail. Yeah, and no one knows, I mean no,
at least no one ever covered what happened they.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
Yeah, I mean I imagine it was. I've got some
bad news and some more bad news, right, Like, there
is no good news. It's like your friend has been arrested,
and you're also not going to this football game, and
you also have to find your way home something exactly.
Surely they gave them right home at least.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
Oh, I don't know about that. I don't know about that.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
I mean I was laughing about there they're victims, but
they really are.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
I mean, what a bummer for sure, especially those wives
that found out that their husbands didn't let them read
the letter right from I am debtnov.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
And didn't want to go to the game to begin with.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
Right, Yeah, oh my god. There are definitely plus ones
like that.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
Oh man. Uh So when this whole thing was pulled off,
the reason why the NFL films little mini documentaries so
thorough is the media was there, and it would make
sense media was there because this is supposed to be
some big deal celebrations. So you see people who are
like fugitive it was about to be arrested coming into
(38:01):
the convention center like party, like into the cameras. Yeah,
that are really like there to film their arrest, but
they think they're there to film this big celebration because
they won these tickets. The La Times was there, CBS
News was there, Washington Post was there. They were like
journalists were allowed to go basically everywhere. They're allowed to
interview all of the all of the higher ups conducting
(38:23):
this sting. I guess they were just required to basically
play it straight and pretend like they didn't know what
was going on. But as a result of this direct
involvement of the media, there was a huge national like
celebration for how great the US Marshall Service was and
how well they pulled off this amazing sting with not
(38:46):
a single shot fired and aside from violently throwing some
of these people to the floor, totally nonviolent roundup of
one hundred plus perpse.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
Yeah, I mean, that's the that's why you do it
like this, Oh, for the for the safety, and for
the money savings or the efficiency rather, I guess financially,
But the pr aspect of this should not be overlooked.
Like they wanted them to film this, they wanted them
to know all the cutesy stuff. So one day NFL
Films would release a mini doc and future podcasters would
(39:18):
talk about it and sort of make fun of it,
but also bring them, you know, some attention. So the
pr part of it was a very purposeful, big deal.
The guy, I've seen lots of different numbers bandied about,
and by how many people they actually got. I think
one hundred and forty four arrests is what Dave saw,
but in the documentary, the guy whose brainchild it was
(39:40):
said it was one hundred and one. Really, but if
you do the math on one hundred and one arrest,
it cost them twenty two one hundred dollars to pull
this off. That breaks down to just two hundred and
eighteen dollars at if they got one hundred and one arrests,
and the average cost of just a perfugitive cost of
nabbing as fugitive it was about almost thirteen hundred bucks.
(40:03):
So that's a you know, that's a big efficient haul
if you really look at it that way.
Speaker 2 (40:07):
Yeah, for sure, I mean it's super efficient. And again
not a single shot fired. And don't forget they nabbed
Charles Watkins, the big fish. They were trying to reel
in the murderer who had escaped from prison dressed as
a prison guard, which really, if you're gonna escape from prison,
that's a real black eye to that particular prison dressing
up as one of their own guards and escaping. Yeah,
(40:28):
so it was a big deal that they caught this guy.
And Stanley Morris, who was the head of the Marshall
Service at the time, was quoted in the LA Time
saying it's a safe, clean and creative way to get
these people off the streets. There's no safer way to
make an arrest than away from the home environment.
Speaker 1 (40:46):
Yeah, I mean, he's probably right as far as Charles
Watkins goes in and Dave got some of this. By
the way, you want to shout out the podcast Criminal,
huge shot, Yeah, because they covered this and I think Dave,
they've listened to that and got a couple of these
things in the end here from there.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
Yeah, it was a December twenty twenty four episode. So
what I'm pretty recently is that the listener wrote in
after hearing the Criminal episode. Maybe he said, I've got
a great idea for your episode.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so go check that out for Criminal's
point of view. I'm sure it's pretty great because it's
a great podcast. Huh. But apparently there was a producer
from CBS News named Alan Goldberg who went back at
the footage and was like, I think he just thought
some of this stuff was a little fishier than it
was made out to be as some big, huge success.
And he saw footage on there of Charles Watkins, a
(41:41):
fifty year old man, saying like, you got the wrong guy,
You got the wrong guy. And it turns out they
got the wrong guy. They got Charles Watkins senior, Charles Watkins,
the murderer that was the felon, or rather fugitive and
Felon was his son. He was twenty years old. They
got the wrong person.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
Yeah apparently yeah, according to Criminal, like he finally was
able to convince him by showing like some ID and
some other like identification saying like, I'm not the guy
you're looking for, you're looking for my son and huge
again hat tip to Criminal. They did some serious digging,
like I was listening to it. And Alan Goldberg, who
(42:22):
is a huge source for this, they're the ones that
he talked to. This is not like all over the place,
like they found this guy and managed to just completely
turn all of the coverage of Operation Flagship. Still today,
when you read contemporary stuff about Operation Flagship, it is
unquestioningly written about as just this perfect success. They found
(42:45):
this guy who was like, this is not actually how
it went at all. There's actually, in addition to getting
the wrong Charles Watkins, the other big fish, they were
trying to get Lloyd Golden. He was a top TED
wanted fugitive for armed robbery. And this Alan old Berg,
you know, God bless him for his journalists streak. He
dug into Lloyd Golden and found that he was wanted
(43:06):
for selling some drugs, not armed robbery. He wasn't on
any kind of top ten list, So that's bad enough.
But when you really start digging into it, you're like, oh,
this is not only a waste of money. It turns out,
even though it was super efficient, it's actually legal but
pretty unethical considering who they actually did nab in this dragnet.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
Yeah, I mean it was mainly misdemeanor offenders, a lot
of parole violations. There were six traffic offenses.
Speaker 2 (43:37):
Okay there, and now remember a lot of these people
were thrown to the ground regardless of their of what
they were wanted for. They were a fugitive and they
were thrown to the ground violently in some cases for
traffic offenses.
Speaker 1 (43:51):
Yeah, exactly. There was one guy and you can see
him in the NFL film stock as they're bringing him out.
He was like, man, He's like, you know where I live.
You could have come to my house, basically, like, why
did you drag me down here and make me go
through all this? Just come knock on my door and
arrest me.
Speaker 2 (44:09):
He's like, I want to speak to mister duttono on now.
Speaker 1 (44:15):
This turned out to be sort of the beginning of
the end though it is again still praised as a
success if you look at any US Marshall stuff, but
they I think, like fists and nine was just regular
police work over a period of eight weeks. They got
a bunch of more fugitives, which is great.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
Yeah, pretty impressive. Thirty five hundred fugitives in eight weeks
over four states and parts of Mexico's with no scams whatsoever.
Speaker 1 (44:41):
Yeah, no scams. But they don't do this stuff anymore.
I guess this was sort of the golden age of
that kind of thing. They're still out getting fugitives. I
think last year they captured more than three thousand violent
fugitives in Operation north Star, but that did not involve
culture club tickets or sweepstakes prizes or anything like that.
Speaker 2 (44:59):
I think the answer is that in nineties, starting in
nineteen eighty six, they went to nothing but beer and
wine at their Christmas parties.
Speaker 1 (45:06):
Right yeah, not the rum punch, right right. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:10):
So one of the things about Operation Flagship is that
it is so nuts that it actually happened, and when
you just step back and look at it from the
you know, from the total outside and how great it
was and everything, it's extremely entertaining cops, smart, criminal, stupid.
Can you believe they fell for this? There's football involved, like,
it has everything you could possibly want, right, So it
(45:32):
did actually inspire some stuff, like we said that whole
mister Zip thing inspired like the I've got some rose
delivery for you fugitive. This specific Operation Flagship inspired apparently
the opening scene and Sea of Love with al Pacino
where Samuel Jackson is among the fugitives who were tricked
(45:53):
into a meat the Yankees scam.
Speaker 1 (45:55):
Yeah, yeah, that was copped directly from this. I'm sure
there was.
Speaker 2 (46:00):
So have you seen the movie Trap m Night Shyamalan's
vehicle for his daughter's musical career?
Speaker 1 (46:06):
Yeah? Have you seen it? No? Okay, I just want
to talk for one quick minute about this because I
heard this movie on two different movie podcasts. I listened
to Scott Hasn't Seen He covered this with Mike Castle,
husband to Lauren Lapkis as the guest, and then it
was also on the Flophouse, one of my favorite shows
(46:28):
that have listened to forever on the Max Fun Network
where they cover bad movies. Elliott Dan and Stun Yeah. Yeah,
it's it's wonderfully bad though, Like I heard both of
these before I saw it, and I was like, I've
got to watch this movie now because it's so funny, bad,
(46:48):
and it is. It's I highly recommend the m night
Shyamalan Josh Hartnett movie Trap because it is so ridiculous
and awful and the choice that are made as a
movie are just bonkers and hysterical.
Speaker 2 (47:04):
Okay, so I know I am a ascensient adult human being,
and I know that a lot of them night shamlans
some of his films are bad.
Speaker 1 (47:15):
Yeah, yeah, just bad, terrible.
Speaker 2 (47:17):
I hated Signs. Hated Signs, although that was largely because
of mel Gibson's acting, where all of them.
Speaker 1 (47:24):
Are pretty bad to me, huh, He's got a handful
of pretty good ones.
Speaker 2 (47:27):
But yeah, well that's what I was gonna say. I
will still watch every movie that that man puts out
because they're so imaginative, so creative. I also love the
cinematography in his films. It's always so dark and moody.
Speaker 1 (47:39):
Yeah, they look pretty good.
Speaker 2 (47:40):
The Sixth Sense is one of the greatest films of
all time. Yeah, and even like, you can give up
on him and then come back years later and watch
the stuff that you missed, and you're like, man, I
love this stuff. It's such a great thing to watch
on like Saturday afternoon or something like that.
Speaker 1 (47:57):
Yeah. I like the Unbreakable movie and the the Split whatever,
there was like a trilogy, and in that world, I
thought split. Yeah, I thought all those were pretty good.
But yeah, a lot of his movies are really bad
but still well made enough to be worthwhile even if
it's just sort of like a cringe fun watch. And
(48:18):
Trap is one of them. And you know, whenever he
pops up in his own movies, it's always so bad
and dumb and obvious, and he does so in the
funniest worst way in Trap.
Speaker 2 (48:28):
Okay, good, I gotta see this.
Speaker 1 (48:30):
It's really a fun bad movie. Watch. I highly recommend it.
Speaker 2 (48:33):
Have you seen a Knock at the Cabin Door?
Speaker 1 (48:35):
I have not seen that one.
Speaker 2 (48:36):
That's good.
Speaker 1 (48:37):
I don't see them all.
Speaker 2 (48:38):
Have you ever seen Servant, the show he made?
Speaker 1 (48:41):
Huh huh, good bad.
Speaker 2 (48:44):
No, it's really good. It's a really good show. Like
he does a great job.
Speaker 1 (48:48):
He's a confounding filmmaker.
Speaker 2 (48:50):
Yeah, you know, just just watch Servant. I think you'll
like it. I haven't seen all of the seasons. I
might have seen the first three and then I stopped.
But I can tell you the first three you're definitely
worth watching. I think you'll get sucked in pretty quick.
Speaker 1 (49:03):
Yeah. We cannot finish though, even though I did mention
Homer Simpson earlier. One of the great great Simpsons episodes,
they had a sting operation where they were giving away
a boat. Right.
Speaker 2 (49:17):
Yeah, yes, I'm sorry. I've watched it the other yesterday.
I guess I was watching it. I noticed something that
I'd never noticed before. Was at the head of the scene.
At the beginning, as they're starts, as they're pulling up
to the police station, Homer's falling for a scam like
operation Flagship, but instead of Redskins tickets, it's a free
(49:38):
motor boat. Yeah, so he's all he's all ready for this.
He's wearing a captain's hat driving the family up to
the police station to claim his free motor boat. And
at the beginning of the scene, as they're pulling up,
lou one of the cops has the door kind of
like slightly jar and is peeking out right when he
sees Homer pull up, he like closes the door real quick. Yeah,
(50:00):
oh my god, you have to see it like I
can't do it justice. It's just this extra quick little
thing that did not need to be added at all,
but makes that whole scene so just perfect.
Speaker 1 (50:11):
Just the heyday of that show.
Speaker 2 (50:13):
Yeah, season nine, it's in the whole episode by the way,
to Lisa the Skeptic is like, yeah, one of the
like more heartfelt episodes around two.
Speaker 1 (50:22):
So good hallo. Why are the pretty one Jarwie's and
Shane favorites? Also a little nugget on the end, if
you're ever in Fort Smith, Arkansas, and why else would
you be there? But going to the US Marshall Museum,
you can see Louis McKinney's MCE black top hat on display.
Speaker 2 (50:42):
Very nice, pretty, It was a nice little nugget.
Speaker 1 (50:44):
Yeah, thanks Dave for that.
Speaker 2 (50:46):
No, Yeah, thank you Dave. That was great. We appreciate
the assist on this one and on Harry Belafonte. It's
Dave week everybody, that's right. And since I said it's
Dave week again that unlocked listener mayle.
Speaker 1 (51:00):
Hey, guys love the show. I just started listening around
twenty eighteen. I'm now realizing that was seven years ago.
My commute to work is about fifteen minutes and eats
each direction, so your release schedule is perfect. To listen
to a freshysk episode all the time I was listening
to automats and hearing Chuck weird it out about pie
for breakfast is so funny to me because I'm a
(51:20):
chef and I will never understand why pie sweetened thickened
fruit in a pastry is dessert, but a danish or
a jelly donut sweetened thickened fruit in a pastry our breakfast.
And by the way, this totally vindicates you because when
you were like pie for breakfast and I was like,
that sounds so crazy. I was, and you said, most
breakfast foods are dessert, and I was like, what are
(51:41):
you talking about. You're completely right. I wasn't thinking about
all this stuff.
Speaker 2 (51:44):
Oh I love it when you say stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (51:46):
I was salking about eggs and bacon, but I forgot
about the sweet side of breakfast, and all that stuff
is dessert. Same goes for cake and pancakes, flour, sugar, eggs,
baking powder with a sweet condiment. French toast is plain
white bread dipped in a sweet cinnamon custs, griddled and
then you drizzle sugar syrup on top of it. I
love this so guys, Josh is right. Lots of breakfast
foods are pretty much dessert, and I say, if it
(52:08):
makes you happy, there's no reason to keep away from
dessert foods at breakfast. Your stomach doesn't know what time
of day it is. Thanks for all the amazing information.
I've learned so much from you, guys, and always have
a great time listening to That is from Aarin Brittingham
and Aarin, thanks for proving me wrong. I forgot about
all this sweet breakfast stuff.
Speaker 2 (52:26):
Thanks for proving me right.
Speaker 1 (52:27):
Yeah, and not to even mention cereal. I mean, what
is Captain crunch besides a bowl of dessert?
Speaker 2 (52:32):
That's right. I like to have a balanced breakfast. I
like the dessert part with a bunch of pancakes or
French toast and syrup, but then I also like the
eggs in the bacon part too.
Speaker 1 (52:41):
I breakfast is my favorite meal that I never eat,
but when I do, by God, I love it.
Speaker 2 (52:47):
Well. Yeah, I'm the same way. I don't typically eat breakfast.
So if I'm going to eat breakfast, breakfast like it's
gonna be something like that.
Speaker 1 (52:53):
Agreed.
Speaker 2 (52:54):
I gave up cereal and I'm the better off for it.
I just have to admit, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (53:00):
I don't eat that stuff anymore. But if I'm on
vacation and there's a good breakfast place, I'm going to
party down and then I'll skip lunch. That's right.
Speaker 2 (53:08):
Nice for Charles. Well, if you want to be like
Aaron and vindicate me, bring it on. You can send
us an email to Stuff Podcasts at iHeartRadio dot com.
Speaker 1 (53:23):
Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For
more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's
Chuck and Cherry's here too, And this is stuff you
should know, the Freeze edition.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Yeah, you know what. The addition this is, this is
the law enforcement sometimes thinks they're so cute and clever. Addition, Right, man,
I can't wait to point out how many cutesy little
names and acronyms pop up in this story and this
and a lesson. If you're a criminal and you ever
(00:41):
think something might be shady and it might be a
sting operation, just look at any name that they've given
you and like read it backwards or see if it
spells an acronym that says like we nabbed you, buddy
or something like that. Like that's that's how cutesy they
got is And you'll see. I'll just throw that out
there and we'll talk about him as they pop up.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Yeah, and there's our daily assistance in helping criminals. A
vague capture by law enforcement.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Yeah, was that what I was doing? I certainly was,
all right.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Movie, So we're talking about one specific operation, Operation Flagship,
which was conducted by the US Marshall Service back in
I think nineteen eighty five, and it's just kind of
mind boggling. Where did you hear about this? Did somebody
write in or did you already know about it? Being
an NFL fan?
Speaker 1 (01:30):
And yeah, you know what, I'm not sure now that
I think of it. This may have been a listener
request and I'm going to look that up real quick
because i hate not shouting people out.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Yeah, I'm with you when that happens, Well, how I
keep talking while you look?
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Okay?
Speaker 2 (01:50):
So, the US Marshall Service, they're one of the first
American law enforcement agencies. They were founded back in seventeen
eighty nine. Dave helped us with this, Dave Week by
the way, as Dave put it, in the time of
George Washington. So they've been around quite a bit, and
over the course of this history, like, they've done a
lot of different really kind of great stuff. They escorted
(02:15):
students into the first segregated schools, Black students to segregated schools,
They protected them. They enforced prohibition, which I guess, depending
on your views on prohibition, it was great or not.
They operated the US Census, which seems like they were
at the time just really looking for busy wet for
the Marshall service.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Yes, just give them a bunch of pencils.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Right, and then in turnal loose and then famously chuck
anytime you hear somebody call like a wild West law
enforcement guy Marshall. They were a US marshal. That was
one of the roles they played. They served as the
long arm of the law and the wild West era
of American history.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Yeah, so they did a lot of things. They found
a lot of busy work for them to do over
the years. These days, did you mention witness protection?
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Not yet?
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Yeah, I mean basically these days they take care of
witness the witness They run the Witness Security Program aka
witness Protection. If you see prisoners being transported like to
court or something, those are marshals doing that and there
since seventy nine they've been in charge of fugitive investigations,
which is to say, basically, anybody with an outstanding warrant
(03:33):
is a fugitive. You don't have to have like escaped prison.
If you're charged with the crime or have been summoned
to testify or something like that and you jump bail,
you don't appear in court. If you escape from custody,
then you're a fugitive, and the US Marshals are going
to try and find you and either put you back
in jail or put you in jail for your very
(03:55):
first time.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Yeah, and Tommy Lee Jones didn't care if you're innocent.
His job is to get you and bring you back
to jail. No, not kill my wife. I don't care.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
This is so great, man, one of the great lines
in movie history.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
So, yeah, you can be a fugitive all sorts of ways,
And regardless of how it is, the US Marshals are
out there to get you. And for the most part,
when they get you, it's because they've tracked you down.
Maybe they got a tip, maybe they just started looking
for you and they found that you're actually at your
last known address. Yeah, and they arrest people quite frequently.
(04:33):
I think I saw that they rounded up like seventy
five thousand fugitives in twenty twenty three or twenty four.
They arrest a lot of people. But for some reason,
during the early to mid eighties, the US Marshall Service
went on what can only be described as a QTSY streak.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Yeah, they said, hey, guys, let's have a little fun
with this.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
They clearly did. I mean like these things. This whole
thing was hatched hours into an office Christmas party in
nineteen seventy nine.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
That's for this, Yeah, for sure, we'll start with our
first QT acronym. In nineteen eighty one, they launched a
program called the Fugitive Investigative Strike Team aka FIST is
they're going to use their fists to get you, that's right.
(05:25):
And their goal was to do fugitive investigations, not just
like one person at a time, but like, let's see
if we can get a lot of these people at
one time, high concentrations of these fugitives and round them
up and bring them in, and how are we going
to do that. We're going to do that with these
really kind of wacky sting operations, which you know, it's
(05:50):
not like they were just out to have fun. There's
a lot of merit to doing something this way. They're
generally cheaper than just one at a time going after
some body. Resource wise, they're safer because usually when you
launch something like this, they're going to be unaware. They're
not going to be they're not gonna have a weapon
on them like they might, you know, behind the door
(06:13):
of their own home that they barely crack open, so
you know, it's cheaper, it's generally a little safer. We're
going to talk about a few examples of these before
we get to Flagship. One very successful one was a
program called Mister Zip and this is just very low five.
They would have Marshalls dressed up as US mail carriers
and they would just knock on your door and say
(06:34):
I got a package for how much Simpson, And they
would produce their ID and sign their name and they
would say thank you. You're under arrest, Yeah it is you.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
I think that was actually in The Fugitive too.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Yeah, that sounds familiar.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Yeah, I mean it's been in a lot of different.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Movies, but like harre your roses that kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Huh exactly.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
So I don't know if this is actually the origin
of it or not, but it certainly seems to be
because I don't get the impression that they did a
lot of this stuff before this era.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Yeah. What about Puno Airlines That was a pretty fun one.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
So Puno means fist in Spanish.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Ugh, right, Sorry, It's just it's also like it's almost
like they wanted people to figure it out.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Yes, that is inherently the problem behind this whole thing
is a lot of this. I was about to say steps,
but I'm just gonna say missteps that happened to work
out in their favor. We're just basically like, hey, criminals,
do you speak Spanish? Do you think anybody would ever
name their airline fist airline? Well, they want to give
(07:40):
you a free weekend to the Bahamas.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
That was the Punos Airlines thing. And I love it,
like I think it's it's cool, like in retrospect, but
when you stop and actually think of it from a
law enforcement perspective, you just you just end up pinching
the bridge of your nose. But it actually worked.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
Yeah, it did. They mailed these fake letters saying they
had won that trip plus three hundred and fifty bucks
in spending money. Fourteen fugitives fell for it, and you know,
they send a limo to your house. It's like a
big sweepstakes basically. And most of them were arrested in
the limo, like the limo driver is a cop and
they just pull over and say you're under arrest. One
(08:17):
guy did make it to the airport at Miami International
and they did have a fake Puno Airlines ticket counter,
so they saw it through. I'll give him that much.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Yeah, for sure. I think it was right next to
air Haiti.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Right, No, for real, that was okay. I never know
when you're joking anymore, so.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
So I know, I'm sorry. I've really with reality. That
was nineteen eighty five. There was another one the year
before fifth seven. Yeah, right, but they would spell it
with Roman numerals and make it look super cool.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
It's so funny.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Because I think this is yeah, this is the era
of the Rocky sequels.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Yeah, Roman numerals were everywhere.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Yeah, that one was enormous. It was a multi state,
multi agency sting operation. There were one hundred and thirteen
Marshalls involved, five ATF agents, one hundred and five police officers,
all from across eight different states, and it involved a
bunch of different scams that really all together were part
(09:18):
of this one big sweep that was just coordinated by
the Marshall Service. There was one pretty straightforward in Buffalo
where they wrote letters to fugitives and said, hey, you
don't know this, but you won ten thousand dollars in
the lottery. You know that lottery. You may or may
(09:38):
not have ever played. Well, you won ten thousand dollars,
but we can't give you the money unless you come
to the Lotto office and show us your ID and
then you can claim your prize.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
That's right, That was one of them. One was a
job scam. It was called the Prior Offenders Employment Opportunity Program,
where they were say like, hey, you're a prior offender, Like,
I know it's hard for you to get a job.
We can get you a job fifteen bucks an hour.
Just call our number and tell us who you are
and where you are, and we'll set your right up.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
That one actually seems like the most effective one because
it almost has like a scam sense to it, like outwardly,
like overtly.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
It may be the meanest too.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
I think so too. I thought the same thing.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Because you might think it's mean to say you've won
tickets to the Bahamas, but it's really mean for someone
to be like, I really want to start my life
over and get a regular job.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Right, and like this number, have we got an opportunity
for you? Yeah, I agree with you. In New York
part of fift seven, their sting was called the Brooklyn
Bridge Delivery service, not to be confused with New York's
finest taxi service, but it's basically the same thing. Their
motto was don't mess with the rest, come to the best,
(10:53):
and it was essentially the same thing as mister Zip
as far as the scam goes. But they would just
leave like we missed you, slips on their door saying
you have a package that you need to come pick up.
And there was a guy involved in this. I can't
remember his name, but oh, Robert Leshorn. He was one
(11:15):
of the chief or deputy chief marshals, and this was
his scam. And so part of it was the criminal
would call to find out where to pick up their package,
and depending on what they were wanted for, he would
tailor what was supposedly in the package. So he said,
like if you were wanted for robbery or theft or something,
(11:37):
it would be like a brand new stereo or something,
so he would tailor, which made sense. And apparently that
worked to a certain extent. But all of these, all
of them pale in comparison to the one that they
ran in Hartford connetic.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Oh, man, I thought you were going in the flagship.
I was like, are you not going to mention, no one.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Not a chance. As a matter of fact, we should
probably just stop after this one, because no scam in
the history of law enforcement ever been greater than this one.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Yeah, this is part of fifth seven in Hartford, Connecticut.
This was Hey, let's do a fake TV station giveaway
where you can win two tickets to a concert plus
dinner and a limo ride. And hey, it's nineteen eighty four.
You're gonna see Van Halen on their a big, huge
rock tour. No no, no, Boy George and Culture Club.
(12:24):
You have won tickets to see Culture Club in nineteen
eighty four, and it worked, apparent. I don't know why
they chose. I don't know if it was geographical, if
Boy George was just like, sure, I'll take part in this,
he probably didn't know anything about it, or if they
did some research, did a little ree and found out
(12:44):
that these dudes love Boy love Culture Club. I don't know.
I have no idea, but that's who it was.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
I saw that part of the package that they won
was also a photo shoot. Saw that in a couple
of places.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
With the Culture Club.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Yeah. And then one of the marshals who helped who
headed up the Hartford Connecticut. Boy George scam said it
was just like one of the other ones, where like
when you went to get picked up by this limo,
right when you got in the limo, they arrested you.
He said. All these people that they got with this
(13:20):
were all dressed up to go to the Culture Club concert.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Oh god, can you imagine what.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
They looked like when they arrived in jail, Like those
feathers that you clipped your ear.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Yeah yeah, like glitter war.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Paint, like on your cheeks, like the whole, the whole shebang.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
I wonder if they said bad Karma chameleon for you,
my friend. I love all the extras too. It wasn't
just like tickets to a concert. It was always like
and dinner and a photo shoot. Like I guess they
really thought they needed to make it something someone couldn't refuse.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
I guess right, How can you refuse a photo shoot
with boy George?
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Yeah, but we laugh. Fist seven netted thirty three hundred
arrests and is the largest fugitive round up in American
history still to this day.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Yeah, thirty two hundred of them came from the boy
George skin.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
That feels like we have to take a break right there.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Right, I think we would be violating some sort of
unwritten rule if we didn't.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Right now, all right, we're going to come back and
talk about one that netted fewer arrest but was definitely
fun in Operation Flagship right after this.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Okay, Chuck, So we're back and we're finally talking about
the titular scam Operation Flagship.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
How do you like that?
Speaker 1 (14:59):
That's pretty good. I love the word titular.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
Thank you. It's arousing. There's another word for it, but
let's just say a rousing.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Yeah. Yeah, this was thought up. It was a brain
shout of a guy named Howard Sephir. He was head
of Enforcement Operations at the time. Seven was a big,
big success, and he's like, what at the Christmas party,
he's a little toasty and said, what has everybody got?
He had too much of Grandma's Christmas breath and he said,
what's everyone got? I need some fun ideas. And Robert Leshorn,
(15:28):
the guy, the Brooklyn Bridge delivery service guy, still basking
in the glow of those tailor made packages to the criminals,
he apparently came up with this idea and it was
football tickets. One of the hottest tickets in football at
the time. In nineteen eighty five, was there at RFK
(15:49):
Stadium for what was then the Washington Redskins. I'm now
the Washington Commander since the name change, but there were
the Redskins then. They had won the Super Bowl, beat
the Dolphins in eighty three, lost to the Raiders in
the Super Bowl in eighty four. In eighty five, expectations
were high. Yeah, season tickets, twenty five year waiting list
(16:10):
for season tickets. Every game is sold out at RFK,
and so offering up free tickets to criminals in the
DC area seemed like a no brainer.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
Yeah. This particular game versus the Bengals in December fifteenth,
nineteen eighty five, it was to whoever won was going
to win a wild card playoff berth. Yeah, which has significance.
So it was an important game.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
Oh Doude, I feel like, I don't know, you should
get a little gold star for your football knowledge right here.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Thank you. Also not to mention too. I mean, even
looking back, you're like, wow, these guys were great, But
at the time these two were at the peak of
their careers. It was thisman versus Asia Sin As far
as the quarterbacks went theesman. Is it really?
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Yeah? The story goes it was Joe Theisman and in
college he changed it to thighsman to rhyme with heisman.
Oh really that's what they say.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Huh.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
I'm not I'm not.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Sure he win the Heisman. I mean he's man.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Oh you know, I'm actually not sure if he did
or not. But his leg got snapped on National TV.
I was watching that game. It was horrific.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Wasn't that a super Bowl?
Speaker 1 (17:21):
No? No, no, no, was in a super Bowl?
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Yeah? That was horrific. I mean it was a compound
fracture that came out of his thigh, right.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
I don't think it was his thigh. I think it
was a lower leg, but I just I remember it was.
That was the first horrific injury that I saw on
TV that, even though I didn't know it at the time,
activated my mirror neurons in a way that was quite striking.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
One of the ones that got me there was a
Miami Hurricanes player in early two thousands and he was
like running down the sideline and somebody dove to knock
him out of well, out of bounce, bounce, and and
they got him right and his knee, and his knee
(18:06):
turned into like his whole his whole leg, but the
apex was his knee just turned into a rubber band
that went really far to the left.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
And it's always so disturbing.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
It was they kept showing like this was this is
the zeitgeist at the time. They showed that injury in
slow motion fifteen times.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Yeah, the dude was.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Laying on the field. They didn't cut to anything. They
just kept showing it over and over like it was
a new volume of Faces of Death or something like that.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Yeah, they did that for up until not too too
long ago, and then they stopped. Anytime there's a serious
injury like that, they're like, uh, we're not you know,
we don't show the replays of these things anymore, but.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
We probably shouldn't feed the bloodblust.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
Yeah exactly.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
But yeah, so anyway, that was that was It's forever
burned into my brain that image. And I don't think
he broke anything. He just apparently has like the most flexible,
resilient leg of any.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
So he was fine.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Yeah, I don't know if he was fine. I don't
remember that. I just remember like, I don't think he
was like anything. Broke. It just went breo.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
Oh was that old rubbernee Richards.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Yeah, yeah, but ironically I think he had the nickname
before that because he could play the rubber bands on
his knee.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
This has gotten so off the rails.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Oh yeah, we're talking about the cops.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
And yeah, that's right, all right, So we're back to
Robert Leshorn. He's the one that came up with this
idea to give away these tickets. He said, here's what
we'll do. We'll create a fake TV station, like a
rock music TV station, like a local MTV, basically w
RC Video, and that's gonna head up this whole thing,
(19:46):
the pri and this is where they get cute again.
The prize letters that they sent out were signed by
station manager I am debt naw. If you'd spell that backwards,
it is I am wanted get it.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
And then the guy who they said you had to
call in or whatever, the business manager that took the
phone call. His name was Marcus kran cr a n
spelled backwards as narc no yes, and supposedly, and I
did not verify this, but there was one source that
said the whole music when you called was I fought
(20:22):
the law and the law one by Bobby Fuller. Yeah,
and I was like, come on, like really.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Right, so even if even taking that one out, it
is one hundred percent confirmed that they signed it. I
am wanted backwards. I am Debton. Aw Yeah the cran
thing is that pretty much one hundred percent?
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Oh yeah, I mean it's in the NFL Films documentary.
You see the guy typing that name in a computer.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Yeah, so like this is like, these are the things
that they're doing to just make it like a whole
tee thing right right to where if you again, for
no reason back, no reason but to amuse themselves like
there's no reason. As we'll see. I'm sure part of
the reason also was for the media blitz that they
knew was coming after they shut this off. Yeah yeah,
(21:05):
but not only is there really no reason for it,
you're actually sacrificing potential captures.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Yeah, because there's you're tempting faith.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Some of these people have wives. All you had to
do was show your wife that letter and say it
says wanted backwards. You know, hey, dummy, Yeah, how many
of these people were like fell through the drag net
because they saw yeah, debtnas wanted backwards. And they're like,
I think this is not legitimate.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
Yeah. Yeah, They mailed out three thousand of these letters
to fugitives for a total of seventeen outstanding warrants. Between
those three thousand said you won this thing plus a
grand prize drawing for Super Bowl tickets. That year, the
flagship International Sports television was the fake station Fist. So
(21:57):
they did it again. About half the letters came back
return to Cender. The others again were told to call
Marcus Kran to confirm their attendance. And a few of
the people that called in were like, wait a minute,
this is the cops. But out of the three thousand,
it's not very many. Apparently about one hundred and sixty
(22:19):
people RSVP'd, which would still be a pretty good take,
I guess. And they said, all right, come on down
to the Washington Convention Center at nine am on game day.
We're going to have a big brunch and a big
party and then shuttle you over to the game.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Yes, and I thought something you mentioned is worth emphasizing.
That being entered in a grand prize drawing for tickets
to Super Bowl twenty in New Orleans, Yeah, that actually
struck me as a really nice touch because now you've
moved the focus a little further out and you're diluting
the focus that's being paid to this most immediate thing,
(22:54):
so they're thinking about something else as well. Really, I
thought that really was a good touch. Yeah, So to
get prepared for this whole thing, they held three different
dress rehearsals. That's dedicated for sure, because this is a
big production. And it was smart that they held three
different dress rehearsals because again there's a lot of moving parts.
(23:16):
There's a ton of different cops. I think one hundred
and sixty six different agents were involved.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
They were all cops. Everyone there was a cop. Like
the bus boy was a cop, the you know, person
serving your drink was a cop.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
Yeah, the janitors were cops. Everybody was cops. Like when
you walked into the Washington Convention Center that day, there
was no one who wasn't a cop, a wanted fugitive
or the plus one of the wanted fugitive exactly had
the haplessness of being brought along to this.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
Whole Yeah, there real victims.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
Yeah, So they rehearsed it many, many times. And one
of the things I saw of these one hundred and
sixty six law enforcement agents that were part of this.
A lot of them were brought in from out of
state because they didn't want to risk some of these
fugitives from recognizing the marshals who say, like, we're in
the courtroom with them when they were first brought to
(24:09):
trial or had escorted them from jail to prison before
they escaped or something like that. So they brought in
a lot of ringers from around the country. So there
was a lot of cops working from a lot of
different offices all for this one huge scam operation Flagship.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Yeah, they had to shave a lot of about half
of their mustaches.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
If you watch, I mean, you can see this whole thing.
It's only like twelve minutes long. An NFL Films documentary
on this on YouTube or wherever, and you can watch
the whole thing play out. It's incredible. But they look
that looks like a room staffed with one hundred and
sixty six cops dressed up as different things.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
Yeah. I made it through up to I think minute three.
It's like, I cannot watch law enforcement try to play
a tongue in cheek. It's just I can't do it.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Yeah, even the cheerleaders who were not dressed as cheerleaders.
They were dressed in tuxedos. Like everyone there was wearing
a tux which was hysterical because you know, it was
nineteen eighty five, that's the epitome of class. But they
were all cops. And the one of the women that
was interviewed, she was like, I didn't want to do
a cheerleader. She was like, I was in this. I
(25:19):
was a US marshal. I wanted I was rough and tumble,
and I wanted to, you know, throw some guys on
the ground and put the cuffs on them. But they
were like, no, we need you to be a cheerleader,
and you're actually the first line of defense because what
they did was they hugged these guys upon greeting, like hey,
we're cheerleaders. Hug, hug, hug, and they're sort of patting
them down and feeling for weapons, right, which is amazing.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
Well, was that there was some movie where they do
that's a great comedic effect. Really yeah, I can't remember,
but they're they're like hugging people while patting them down,
but like just clearly patting them down. Maning me crazy.
You'll think of it later or somebody you'll email and
I'll be at least one person does. Yeah. So yeah,
(26:00):
like we said, everybody there who was in this building
was a cop, including the San Diego chicken.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
Yeah, was armed.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Was an armed cop. That just goes to show you
how big the San Diego chicken was in the early
to mid eighties that they were like, bring the San
Diego chicken in for this Washington Cincinnati football game on
the other side of the country. Make sure the San
Diego chickens there, just to legitimize things.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Yeah, because that was the chicken was for the Padres,
not the Chargers, even at the time.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
The only explanation I saw in the video was they
said something about Santa Claus was going to be there,
and I don't know why. This is the part that
has no explanation. He said, Oh, we were like, we
can't have Santa Claus, so let's get the San Diego chicken.
And I was like, he said that as if that
was the most reasonable statement he could make.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
Really, that's hilarious.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
It's very funny.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
That shows a little heart.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
I should also say I poked fun at law enforcement
trying to be funny. So I looked up see if
there's any cops turned comedians, and there are.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
Sure, I bet there are, And I bet that's their
whole act.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
I don't know if it is or not, but I
can just tell you to go out and check these
guys out. There's Kevin, Jordan child Ridgeley who went on
to be a Groundling, Jeff Perry, Sir Perry, Alfy Moore,
and I defy you to find the one Brit out
of those.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
Yeah, I bet it's not Alfie all right, So I'm
a Bulby right.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Wow, that was a great Alfie More impression.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
He's the kind of guy that talks like that, I
think anyway.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
I just wanted to toss that out there because very nice.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
Thanks Leshorn. As for his part, he's in the video
he's saying like, nobody can act like a cop. Here
we got a smile, And he says in this in
the NFL film saying, he goes, I know we're not
used to smiling at bandits, but today we need to.
I was like, bandits, what is happening in nineteen eighty five?
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Yeah, he said, no one can act like a cop.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Kill him with smiles, right, yeah, not with a planted gun.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Right right, Oh my gods. So, like I said, there's
a lot of moving parts in a sting where you're
trying to nab one hundred sixty or so criminals all
at once. Again, they rehearsed at three different times, but
there's still tons of X factors that can crop up
that you just can't plan for. And one of the
reasons why they were really kind of on edge is
(28:27):
some of these criminals who they'd invited were pretty hardcore.
There were like arm drobbers, rapists. There was one murderer
in particular who had escaped from prison. He and two
other guys had dressed up as security or not security guards,
prison guards, and they from what I was reading, they
(28:49):
have no idea where they got these prison guard uniforms,
but they managed to escape. The other two guys got caught.
The other guy, Charles Watkins, again who was in on murder.
He had become a fugitive and was on it as
a top ten fugitive in the DC area, So he
was a big fish that they were trying to reel in.
But at the same time, this guy's a murderer on
the run. You have no idea what he's gonna do.
(29:10):
So she really had to kind of keep it tight
as much as possible. I say that before we get
to the actual day, December fifteenth, nineteen eighty five. Yeah,
we take another break.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
All right, let's do it. Alrighty, we are back. It
(29:47):
is not Christmas, but it certainly feels like it. In
nineteen eighty five, it's December fifteenth. The Washington Convention Center
is decked out. There's a big TV plan highlight so
of the redskins seasoned thus far. There's music playing. Everyone's
in those tuxes. They got red and gold balloons they're
(30:08):
handing out. It's really fun to watch this thing play out.
You've got these cheerleaders hugging and patting these guys, these
guys down. One guy is like leaning in trying to
kiss the one of the women, and she's just like
pulling her face away and still has her arm around it.
In fact, she actually Stasia Hilton. She was a US Marshall,
(30:29):
the cheerleader that they interviewed, or fake cheerleader, and later
on she had gotten out and was brought back into
the service as an appointment as Director of US Marshall
Service by President Obama.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
Yeah, but so for this day. She's a Redskins cheerleader, yeah, exactly.
So what they would do is the cheerleaders would hug
you as you were coming in. Would not accept kiss
as it turns out, but they would hug you, pat
you down, although you weren't supposed to know that you
were being padded down. They would wrecked you toward a table.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
She's a good hugger, right exactly.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
Very thorough so they would they would pour you to
this table where you would check in and to claim
your prize. To make sure you were you, you had
to show positive ID. And then when they when they
verified that you were on the list, meaning that you
were a wanted fugitive who just showed up to claim
your two free tickets to the Washington Redskins football game,
(31:26):
they would give you a name tag and the name
tag would say confirmed winner. And then if you were
a dangerous criminal, they would give you a name tag
that said double winner. And they could not find anywhere
how they would explain why somebody was a double winner
and not just a confirmed winner, right exactly, Like why me?
(31:49):
I have no idea what they said. Surely they had
to say something, but I could not find It's lost
to history.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
He said, your dangersly close to winning the Super Bowl
tickets too. That's great, that's how they do it in
the movie. At least so one person came that was
not expected. It was an attorney from a local TV
station that had the local broadcast rights to the games.
(32:16):
He heard about this flagship International Sports Television aka FIST,
and he was like, wait a minute, they can't do this.
He shows up with this in my mind exactly, he
shows up with the season desisted letter and the cops
got him out of there. They were like, here, why
don't you go have a talk with these two cheerleaders.
You're like, buddy, you're gonna blow our cover here.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
Yeah. They they shot him in the leg.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
Yeah, he hobbled out of there.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
No, they took him outside. They had to keep it
under rap. So, okay, you want to talk about unexpected guests?
Speaker 1 (32:47):
Sure?
Speaker 2 (32:47):
Do you want to know the definition of a scumbag?
Speaker 1 (32:51):
Sure?
Speaker 2 (32:51):
A fugitive who gets caught up in the dragnet of
a scam carried out by the US Marshall Service in
nineteen eighty five and shows up without bothering to RSVP.
There were fifteen of them.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
That's funny. They just came.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Yep, they just showed up, didn't even bother to RSVP.
It just got under my skin when I saw.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
That this is bad manners for sure.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
So there was a decent amount of people in this
convention center. I mean one hundred and something one hundred
fifty cops I think one hundred and sixty a little
over one cop to one fugitive. And then most of
these fugitives had a plus one, if not all of them.
So there was hundreds of people in this convention center.
(33:42):
And like you said, it was a big party atmosphere,
but right under the surface there's a bunch of people
with guns ready to like take you to jail. But
the problem is you can't just round everybody up all
at once, right, So what they did was pretty clever.
They would take fifteen to twenty winners at a time
to one of like the separate conference rooms in this
convention center, which really it made me nostalgic, chuck, because
(34:04):
we played a show or two in the conference room
of a convention center, you know, yeah Australia Australia's yeah, yeah, yeah.
And they would sit him down and they would present
them with some I guess spiel to start as they
shut the doors and everybody's settling into their chairs.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
Yeah, this is Louis McKinney. He's on a stage. And
then again this is just like, hey, this is the
party room where we're going to get your actual tickets.
And he's the MC, he's the Master of Ceremonies. He's
he's wearing a top hat, a literal black top hat.
And he doesn't just go up there and say you're
all under arrest. He settles everyone down. He said he
wanted everyone to kind of get settled in and call him.
(34:44):
So he's just doing a bit. He's doing stage work
about how excited everyone is and getting everyone like pumped up.
And then and you can literally watch this happen, he
says on behalf of Flagship International, we have a big
surprise for you this morning. Everybody's under arrest. And you
see behind the doors, you see all these like SWAT
(35:05):
cops is their version of the SWAT, their SOG Special
Operations Group that didn't spell anything clever. They're like literally
have literal shotguns and they're just like they're right behind
the door. Yeah, yeah, exactly. They repel in through the windows,
you know, break through the windows. No, they just they
literally just like kick in the door and go running
(35:25):
in with shotguns. And you see these guys that like
about a third of them like immediately sort of put
their hands on their heads as they were being directed
to and get on the ground, and about a third
of them are like, what's happening here.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
Is this part of the.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
Yeah, they didn't know what was going on, but you know,
soon enough they had them, you know, face down on
the floor.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
Yeah, arresting violently.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
Oh yeah, yeah, fifteen people at a time, then escort
thing amount a different door, and just you know, keep
doing that over and over until they got everybody.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
I have to say something really quick. While I was
researching this, I had a great little brush with coincidence
that I was reading. I got to that part where
McKinney says everybody's under arrest, and it just happened to
be listening to the Beach Boys Smile album at the time.
It's not something I've listened to a lot. I just
happened to decide to listen to that while I was
(36:15):
researching this, and within seconds of reading that part, it
reaches the part in the Beach Boys album where they
say you're under arrest. Wow, is that it's fourth I
mean that's something, right, I mean, that's not your everyday coincidence.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
No, I love stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
I do too. So anyway, back to the story, Dave,
like I said, helped us with this, and he wondered
something that I did as well. What happened to all
the all the guests who are like the crowd of
plus ones are getting left behind in larger and larger
droves as this party room is like you know, set
and reset, and people get taken out of the back
(36:52):
door to jail. Yeah, and no one knows, I mean no,
at least no one ever covered what happened they.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
Yeah, I mean I imagine it was. I've got some
bad news and some more bad news, right, Like, there
is no good news. It's like your friend has been arrested,
and you're also not going to this football game, and
you also have to find your way home something exactly.
Surely they gave them right home at least.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
Oh, I don't know about that. I don't know about that.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
I mean I was laughing about there they're victims, but
they really are.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
I mean, what a bummer for sure, especially those wives
that found out that their husbands didn't let them read
the letter right from I am debtnov.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
And didn't want to go to the game to begin with.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
Right, Yeah, oh my god. There are definitely plus ones
like that.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
Oh man. Uh So when this whole thing was pulled off,
the reason why the NFL films little mini documentaries so
thorough is the media was there, and it would make
sense media was there because this is supposed to be
some big deal celebrations. So you see people who are
like fugitive it was about to be arrested coming into
(38:01):
the convention center like party, like into the cameras. Yeah,
that are really like there to film their arrest, but
they think they're there to film this big celebration because
they won these tickets. The La Times was there, CBS
News was there, Washington Post was there. They were like
journalists were allowed to go basically everywhere. They're allowed to
interview all of the all of the higher ups conducting
(38:23):
this sting. I guess they were just required to basically
play it straight and pretend like they didn't know what
was going on. But as a result of this direct
involvement of the media, there was a huge national like
celebration for how great the US Marshall Service was and
how well they pulled off this amazing sting with not
(38:46):
a single shot fired and aside from violently throwing some
of these people to the floor, totally nonviolent roundup of
one hundred plus perpse.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
Yeah, I mean, that's the that's why you do it
like this, Oh, for the for the safety, and for
the money savings or the efficiency rather, I guess financially,
But the pr aspect of this should not be overlooked.
Like they wanted them to film this, they wanted them
to know all the cutesy stuff. So one day NFL
Films would release a mini doc and future podcasters would
(39:18):
talk about it and sort of make fun of it,
but also bring them, you know, some attention. So the
pr part of it was a very purposeful, big deal.
The guy, I've seen lots of different numbers bandied about,
and by how many people they actually got. I think
one hundred and forty four arrests is what Dave saw,
but in the documentary, the guy whose brainchild it was
(39:40):
said it was one hundred and one. Really, but if
you do the math on one hundred and one arrest,
it cost them twenty two one hundred dollars to pull
this off. That breaks down to just two hundred and
eighteen dollars at if they got one hundred and one arrests,
and the average cost of just a perfugitive cost of
nabbing as fugitive it was about almost thirteen hundred bucks.
(40:03):
So that's a you know, that's a big efficient haul
if you really look at it that way.
Speaker 2 (40:07):
Yeah, for sure, I mean it's super efficient. And again
not a single shot fired. And don't forget they nabbed
Charles Watkins, the big fish. They were trying to reel
in the murderer who had escaped from prison dressed as
a prison guard, which really, if you're gonna escape from prison,
that's a real black eye to that particular prison dressing
up as one of their own guards and escaping. Yeah,
(40:28):
so it was a big deal that they caught this guy.
And Stanley Morris, who was the head of the Marshall
Service at the time, was quoted in the LA Time
saying it's a safe, clean and creative way to get
these people off the streets. There's no safer way to
make an arrest than away from the home environment.
Speaker 1 (40:46):
Yeah, I mean, he's probably right as far as Charles
Watkins goes in and Dave got some of this. By
the way, you want to shout out the podcast Criminal,
huge shot, Yeah, because they covered this and I think Dave,
they've listened to that and got a couple of these
things in the end here from there.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
Yeah, it was a December twenty twenty four episode. So
what I'm pretty recently is that the listener wrote in
after hearing the Criminal episode. Maybe he said, I've got
a great idea for your episode.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so go check that out for Criminal's
point of view. I'm sure it's pretty great because it's
a great podcast. Huh. But apparently there was a producer
from CBS News named Alan Goldberg who went back at
the footage and was like, I think he just thought
some of this stuff was a little fishier than it
was made out to be as some big, huge success.
And he saw footage on there of Charles Watkins, a
(41:41):
fifty year old man, saying like, you got the wrong guy,
You got the wrong guy. And it turns out they
got the wrong guy. They got Charles Watkins senior, Charles Watkins,
the murderer that was the felon, or rather fugitive and
Felon was his son. He was twenty years old. They
got the wrong person.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
Yeah apparently yeah, according to Criminal, like he finally was
able to convince him by showing like some ID and
some other like identification saying like, I'm not the guy
you're looking for, you're looking for my son and huge
again hat tip to Criminal. They did some serious digging,
like I was listening to it. And Alan Goldberg, who
(42:22):
is a huge source for this, they're the ones that
he talked to. This is not like all over the place,
like they found this guy and managed to just completely
turn all of the coverage of Operation Flagship. Still today,
when you read contemporary stuff about Operation Flagship, it is
unquestioningly written about as just this perfect success. They found
(42:45):
this guy who was like, this is not actually how
it went at all. There's actually, in addition to getting
the wrong Charles Watkins, the other big fish, they were
trying to get Lloyd Golden. He was a top TED
wanted fugitive for armed robbery. And this Alan old Berg,
you know, God bless him for his journalists streak. He
dug into Lloyd Golden and found that he was wanted
(43:06):
for selling some drugs, not armed robbery. He wasn't on
any kind of top ten list, So that's bad enough.
But when you really start digging into it, you're like, oh,
this is not only a waste of money. It turns out,
even though it was super efficient, it's actually legal but
pretty unethical considering who they actually did nab in this dragnet.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
Yeah, I mean it was mainly misdemeanor offenders, a lot
of parole violations. There were six traffic offenses.
Speaker 2 (43:37):
Okay there, and now remember a lot of these people
were thrown to the ground regardless of their of what
they were wanted for. They were a fugitive and they
were thrown to the ground violently in some cases for
traffic offenses.
Speaker 1 (43:51):
Yeah, exactly. There was one guy and you can see
him in the NFL film stock as they're bringing him out.
He was like, man, He's like, you know where I live.
You could have come to my house, basically, like, why
did you drag me down here and make me go
through all this? Just come knock on my door and
arrest me.
Speaker 2 (44:09):
He's like, I want to speak to mister duttono on now.
Speaker 1 (44:15):
This turned out to be sort of the beginning of
the end though it is again still praised as a
success if you look at any US Marshall stuff, but
they I think, like fists and nine was just regular
police work over a period of eight weeks. They got
a bunch of more fugitives, which is great.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
Yeah, pretty impressive. Thirty five hundred fugitives in eight weeks
over four states and parts of Mexico's with no scams whatsoever.
Speaker 1 (44:41):
Yeah, no scams. But they don't do this stuff anymore.
I guess this was sort of the golden age of
that kind of thing. They're still out getting fugitives. I
think last year they captured more than three thousand violent
fugitives in Operation north Star, but that did not involve
culture club tickets or sweepstakes prizes or anything like that.
Speaker 2 (44:59):
I think the answer is that in nineties, starting in
nineteen eighty six, they went to nothing but beer and
wine at their Christmas parties.
Speaker 1 (45:06):
Right yeah, not the rum punch, right right. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:10):
So one of the things about Operation Flagship is that
it is so nuts that it actually happened, and when
you just step back and look at it from the
you know, from the total outside and how great it
was and everything, it's extremely entertaining cops, smart, criminal, stupid.
Can you believe they fell for this? There's football involved, like,
it has everything you could possibly want, right, So it
(45:32):
did actually inspire some stuff, like we said that whole
mister Zip thing inspired like the I've got some rose
delivery for you fugitive. This specific Operation Flagship inspired apparently
the opening scene and Sea of Love with al Pacino
where Samuel Jackson is among the fugitives who were tricked
(45:53):
into a meat the Yankees scam.
Speaker 1 (45:55):
Yeah, yeah, that was copped directly from this. I'm sure
there was.
Speaker 2 (46:00):
So have you seen the movie Trap m Night Shyamalan's
vehicle for his daughter's musical career?
Speaker 1 (46:06):
Yeah? Have you seen it? No? Okay, I just want
to talk for one quick minute about this because I
heard this movie on two different movie podcasts. I listened
to Scott Hasn't Seen He covered this with Mike Castle,
husband to Lauren Lapkis as the guest, and then it
was also on the Flophouse, one of my favorite shows
(46:28):
that have listened to forever on the Max Fun Network
where they cover bad movies. Elliott Dan and Stun Yeah. Yeah,
it's it's wonderfully bad though, Like I heard both of
these before I saw it, and I was like, I've
got to watch this movie now because it's so funny, bad,
(46:48):
and it is. It's I highly recommend the m night
Shyamalan Josh Hartnett movie Trap because it is so ridiculous
and awful and the choice that are made as a
movie are just bonkers and hysterical.
Speaker 2 (47:04):
Okay, so I know I am a ascensient adult human being,
and I know that a lot of them night shamlans
some of his films are bad.
Speaker 1 (47:15):
Yeah, yeah, just bad, terrible.
Speaker 2 (47:17):
I hated Signs. Hated Signs, although that was largely because
of mel Gibson's acting, where all of them.
Speaker 1 (47:24):
Are pretty bad to me, huh, He's got a handful
of pretty good ones.
Speaker 2 (47:27):
But yeah, well that's what I was gonna say. I
will still watch every movie that that man puts out
because they're so imaginative, so creative. I also love the
cinematography in his films. It's always so dark and moody.
Speaker 1 (47:39):
Yeah, they look pretty good.
Speaker 2 (47:40):
The Sixth Sense is one of the greatest films of
all time. Yeah, and even like, you can give up
on him and then come back years later and watch
the stuff that you missed, and you're like, man, I
love this stuff. It's such a great thing to watch
on like Saturday afternoon or something like that.
Speaker 1 (47:57):
Yeah. I like the Unbreakable movie and the the Split whatever,
there was like a trilogy, and in that world, I
thought split. Yeah, I thought all those were pretty good.
But yeah, a lot of his movies are really bad
but still well made enough to be worthwhile even if
it's just sort of like a cringe fun watch. And
(48:18):
Trap is one of them. And you know, whenever he
pops up in his own movies, it's always so bad
and dumb and obvious, and he does so in the
funniest worst way in Trap.
Speaker 2 (48:28):
Okay, good, I gotta see this.
Speaker 1 (48:30):
It's really a fun bad movie. Watch. I highly recommend it.
Speaker 2 (48:33):
Have you seen a Knock at the Cabin Door?
Speaker 1 (48:35):
I have not seen that one.
Speaker 2 (48:36):
That's good.
Speaker 1 (48:37):
I don't see them all.
Speaker 2 (48:38):
Have you ever seen Servant, the show he made?
Speaker 1 (48:41):
Huh huh, good bad.
Speaker 2 (48:44):
No, it's really good. It's a really good show. Like
he does a great job.
Speaker 1 (48:48):
He's a confounding filmmaker.
Speaker 2 (48:50):
Yeah, you know, just just watch Servant. I think you'll
like it. I haven't seen all of the seasons. I
might have seen the first three and then I stopped.
But I can tell you the first three you're definitely
worth watching. I think you'll get sucked in pretty quick.
Speaker 1 (49:03):
Yeah. We cannot finish though, even though I did mention
Homer Simpson earlier. One of the great great Simpsons episodes,
they had a sting operation where they were giving away
a boat. Right.
Speaker 2 (49:17):
Yeah, yes, I'm sorry. I've watched it the other yesterday.
I guess I was watching it. I noticed something that
I'd never noticed before. Was at the head of the scene.
At the beginning, as they're starts, as they're pulling up
to the police station, Homer's falling for a scam like
operation Flagship, but instead of Redskins tickets, it's a free
(49:38):
motor boat. Yeah, so he's all he's all ready for this.
He's wearing a captain's hat driving the family up to
the police station to claim his free motor boat. And
at the beginning of the scene, as they're pulling up,
lou one of the cops has the door kind of
like slightly jar and is peeking out right when he
sees Homer pull up, he like closes the door real quick. Yeah,
(50:00):
oh my god, you have to see it like I
can't do it justice. It's just this extra quick little
thing that did not need to be added at all,
but makes that whole scene so just perfect.
Speaker 1 (50:11):
Just the heyday of that show.
Speaker 2 (50:13):
Yeah, season nine, it's in the whole episode by the way,
to Lisa the Skeptic is like, yeah, one of the
like more heartfelt episodes around two.
Speaker 1 (50:22):
So good hallo. Why are the pretty one Jarwie's and
Shane favorites? Also a little nugget on the end, if
you're ever in Fort Smith, Arkansas, and why else would
you be there? But going to the US Marshall Museum,
you can see Louis McKinney's MCE black top hat on display.
Speaker 2 (50:42):
Very nice, pretty, It was a nice little nugget.
Speaker 1 (50:44):
Yeah, thanks Dave for that.
Speaker 2 (50:46):
No, Yeah, thank you Dave. That was great. We appreciate
the assist on this one and on Harry Belafonte. It's
Dave week everybody, that's right. And since I said it's
Dave week again that unlocked listener mayle.
Speaker 1 (51:00):
Hey, guys love the show. I just started listening around
twenty eighteen. I'm now realizing that was seven years ago.
My commute to work is about fifteen minutes and eats
each direction, so your release schedule is perfect. To listen
to a freshysk episode all the time I was listening
to automats and hearing Chuck weird it out about pie
for breakfast is so funny to me because I'm a
(51:20):
chef and I will never understand why pie sweetened thickened
fruit in a pastry is dessert, but a danish or
a jelly donut sweetened thickened fruit in a pastry our breakfast.
And by the way, this totally vindicates you because when
you were like pie for breakfast and I was like,
that sounds so crazy. I was, and you said, most
breakfast foods are dessert, and I was like, what are
(51:41):
you talking about. You're completely right. I wasn't thinking about
all this stuff.
Speaker 2 (51:44):
Oh I love it when you say stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (51:46):
I was salking about eggs and bacon, but I forgot
about the sweet side of breakfast, and all that stuff
is dessert. Same goes for cake and pancakes, flour, sugar, eggs,
baking powder with a sweet condiment. French toast is plain
white bread dipped in a sweet cinnamon custs, griddled and
then you drizzle sugar syrup on top of it. I
love this so guys, Josh is right. Lots of breakfast
foods are pretty much dessert, and I say, if it
(52:08):
makes you happy, there's no reason to keep away from
dessert foods at breakfast. Your stomach doesn't know what time
of day it is. Thanks for all the amazing information.
I've learned so much from you, guys, and always have
a great time listening to That is from Aarin Brittingham
and Aarin, thanks for proving me wrong. I forgot about
all this sweet breakfast stuff.
Speaker 2 (52:26):
Thanks for proving me right.
Speaker 1 (52:27):
Yeah, and not to even mention cereal. I mean, what
is Captain crunch besides a bowl of dessert?
Speaker 2 (52:32):
That's right. I like to have a balanced breakfast. I
like the dessert part with a bunch of pancakes or
French toast and syrup, but then I also like the
eggs in the bacon part too.
Speaker 1 (52:41):
I breakfast is my favorite meal that I never eat,
but when I do, by God, I love it.
Speaker 2 (52:47):
Well. Yeah, I'm the same way. I don't typically eat breakfast.
So if I'm going to eat breakfast, breakfast like it's
gonna be something like that.
Speaker 1 (52:53):
Agreed.
Speaker 2 (52:54):
I gave up cereal and I'm the better off for it.
I just have to admit, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (53:00):
I don't eat that stuff anymore. But if I'm on
vacation and there's a good breakfast place, I'm going to
party down and then I'll skip lunch. That's right.
Speaker 2 (53:08):
Nice for Charles. Well, if you want to be like
Aaron and vindicate me, bring it on. You can send
us an email to Stuff Podcasts at iHeartRadio dot com.
Speaker 1 (53:23):
Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For
more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
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