August 4, 2011 • 38 mins
In 1820, most of the drugs listed in the American Pharmacopoeia were plant-based; by 1960, it was a mere 5 percent. Yet in the late 20th century this trend reversed. Why? Join Josh and Chuck as they get to the root of ethnobotany and plant-based medicine.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera.
It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff you Should Know
from house Stuff Works dot com? Hey, and welcome to
the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant,
(00:21):
and this is stuff you should know from our beloved website,
how stuff Works dot com. That's right, we work for
a website. And did you know that? Yeah? You know,
when people ask me what I do, like, I don't know.
I met some friend Emily t other day and she's like,
what do you do? I always just say I work
for a website, and the when it starts in on stuff,
I'm just like, yeah, I just I work for a website. Jo.
(00:43):
It's just easy that way. Not only do you work
for it, you are the website. Is what you should say.
I have lobbied for Chuck how Chuck works dot com.
But people would sign on to that. Man. Uh yeah,
this would have been a much better way to start
out the future of the Internet one huh. Probably. So
instead of we're gonna go back way back, Chuck back
(01:05):
in time? Um? Is that Huey Lewis sort of He's
playing Tomorrow Night or tonight where I think he's doing Chastain,
He's doing like you know, the Memphis uh Stacks Music,
Memphis Soul Show, what along with your favorite Huey Lewis classics?
What I did not know this? How did you not
(01:27):
tell me this? I didn't know? Would you be seriously
want to go? I would totally go see Huey Lewis. Dude,
have you ever heard Sports? Yeah? I had Sports when
I was one of the greatest albums ever released. It
was one of the top albums of that year. From
beginning to finished, that was a great album. Anyway, Yes,
I would see Huey Lewis, and now I figured out
how to get there in a few hours. I don't
(01:48):
know if it's tonight, but I heard a promo for
it today on the radio, so it's good, good, good
to know. Um, well, Chuck, we're gonna go even further
back than the height of Huey Lewis's career. We're gonna
go several thousand years before that. Okay, Now we'll go
back to about the height of Hughey Lewis's career, maybe
a little before it. When I was a young lad
(02:09):
and I was watching TV. Remember those time life books
that we talked about here there. So there was one
set that, um it was like Mysteries of Mankind or
Mysteries of History or something like that, and I remember
clearly it said how could ancient civilizations perform brain surgery?
And patients survived? And there's this kind of like did
(02:30):
almost caveman looking guy like with like a scar on
his head and he looked at the camera like, yeah,
I'm still alive, but it hurts, you know. I saw
that and I went it just captured me. Right. Well,
I came to find out that that was a real thing,
and that, apart from a lot of the stuff you
find in time life books, it was correct. There's such
(02:53):
a thing as trep a nation and people actually did
survive it. Talk about this in the lobotomies. I think
so because I know we had we had to of
But trepid nation has been around as a surgical procedure.
It's brain surgery in that the brain is affected by it.
Sometimes they went in and poked around, but for the
most part it was just cutting away a piece of
(03:13):
the skull in the scalp to relieve pressure on the brain. Yeah, right,
And they did the same thing in a much more
sophisticated way these days, for like swelling of the brain. Right,
and some traditional societies still carry out trepid nation today. Yeah,
but um, as I said, it was successful, some um
Andian cultures showed evidence of like at success rate, which
(03:39):
is pretty good as far as I know, right, not bad.
But this is a really ancient procedure. This is um Neolithic, right,
seven thousand and two thousand BC. That's a long time ago. Yeah,
that's like, uh four to nine thousand years ago. And
if you think about that to nine thousand years ago,
if they could successfully seventy percent of the time they
could successfully open your skull up, well they that with
(04:03):
a hundred percent successful Yeah, but you could remove your
heart hundred percent success. Right. But um, so trepid nation
is this ancient form of surgery. And about the same time,
probably people started figuring out that not only could they
perform surgery, but if they wanted to, they could hang
(04:25):
their shingle out and practice medicine if they knew what
they were talking about with plants, right, that's right. So
for a long time we suspect UH indigenous groups uh
had some sort of idea understanding about what plants were,
what what plants could be used for. That's right. But
then about there is this explosion, right, yes, this was
(04:48):
after the ancient Egyptians and pharaohs poked around and the
Sumerians with medicinal plants, um, China, Africa and India, that's
what it really exploded. And they actually I started to
list these things and put them down on paper or
whatever they were using at the time, to to papyrus. Well,
in Egypt and ken I, if you want to be technical,
(05:10):
there's a papyrus that's um dated to fifteen fifty three
BC that lists seven different drugs, a lot of which
are plant based, probably almost all. Yeah, I would say,
so they weren't doing synthetic chemical spect they know. But
about the same time, like you said, in Africa and
India and China, like all these people started just jotting
(05:30):
down their understandings of plants. And it was extensive, right yeah,
like rub this on your sore that and it will
ease your pain and suffering exactly, you know, so we
should write that down. A lot of trial and error,
I imagine, isn't that shacks line from that icy hot
and rubbed this there and it'll ease your pain. Um. So,
(05:53):
so these these this understanding, this knowledge was like added
to and subtracted from, you know, over the course of
centuries and in millennia, and then about like the nineteenth century,
there is like a sharp divergence, right, yes, Josh, that
is when uh, in the first edition of the American Pharmacopeia,
(06:15):
early hundreds um drugs at the time we're s plant
based flashboard nineteen sixty only five point three were plant based.
So what happens is you've introduced people that could figure
out how to synthetically duplicate a lot of these plants.
So are they still plant based? Does that even count?
(06:35):
After a while? I think it's kind of like you
know how people say, like this is made with um
our our product not tested on animals. That's because it
uses stuff that's that was tested on animals thirty years
ago and found safe, so no longer. Yes, So I
think it's much the same way where once you synthesize
something enough for you know, a synthetic alkaloid has this effect,
(06:56):
you can use it in all these different ways with
something else that makes sense. So that was a that
represented a real separation from uh, the West and traditional cultures. Right.
This medicinal rift is what I just called it, So
kind of like medicinal rifts um as our understanding of
(07:17):
chemistry and the effects of drugs on the body groove.
Then you know, we we just kind of diverged from
traditional societies. But there came to be an awareness at
some point in time that all of these rainforests that
were destroying, in all of the uncontacted tribes that were
running out, um have a wealth of information that wasn't
(07:40):
listed in these early pharmacopias. Right, Sure that there's a
bunch of understanding of how to cure all sorts of
diseases out there, and we kind of need it. So
out of that has grown this whole field the sub
discipline of anthropology called ethnobotany. Yeah, what was the Connery movie?
(08:01):
They were searching for the cure for cancer in the
jungle Rangoon beyond Rangoon. No, that was Rangoon man. No,
I can't remember the attack of theo. It was the
lady from the Sopranos and Good Fellas and then Sean
Connery and he they were in the jungle, I think
searching for a cure for cancer or something. Good movie.
But that's that's the point though, is that the cure
(08:23):
for cancer maybe out there in some leaf that we
just need to locate and synthesize. Right. The problem is
is like the field of ethnobotany isn't training people to
go out and eat leaves and write down their thoughts
on it. No, you got I guess they're interviewing people
local tribesmen, indigenous folks and saying, hey, tell us what
(08:43):
you know about medicine. Maybe we can learn something from that.
And this is a very very long process. So like, uh,
the and ethnobotanist is probably going to be somebody who
was trained as a botanist and undergraduate school and then
trained in um anthropology, linkinguistics, UM possibly chemistry in grad school.
(09:04):
Got to be a people person. You have to be
able to chat it up with the possible head shrinkers
UM and you go out in the field and you
have to gain the trust of the people who have
this information. It might not be common to the whole
tribe UM. So you have to gain the trust of
the person who knows what plant to use for what,
(09:25):
and then get that information from them in a way
that's agreeable. There's a debate among ethnobotany that's pretty much
resolved these days, but for a long time that end
justified the means, like if you could cure athletes foot,
you know, with this plant, and this guy doesn't want
to give it to you, don't you have a moral
obligation to basically take that information from him, steal it
(09:46):
as it were. Now there's a movement toward making sure
that these people are like their trust isn't broken, that
they're willing to share it, and if they're not willing
to share it, you pay them, pay them money, pay
pay them either way. Compensation is is kind of becoming
a more of a thing among ethnobotanists rather than thank you,
you've done something great here bringing the trucks. Yeah. Well,
(10:09):
not only just what the plant is though, but obviously
they need specifics. They need to know what part of
the plant because you know, I wrote that article a
while back on how you can I think the universal
edibility test. You know some parts of a plant, like
eat the leaf and you can sustain on it. Eat
the root and you die in ten seconds. So what
part of the plant, how much of it to use um,
which would essentially be the prescription, right, And so the
(10:34):
ethnobotanist finds the stuff out, takes it back to the
synthetic chemist, who basically has to go over the you know,
hopefully the ethnobotanist is like, it's the leaves, just focused
on the leaves rather than you know, having to do
this on the plant and the stems and the seeds
or the flowers or whatever. But a crazy job. Imagine
how difficult that is. It is very difficult to synthesize
something like that. Well, first they have to isolate it.
(10:56):
They gotta find out because you know, the local shame
isn't He's not gonna be like, well, it's this alkaloid
in there that's um, you know, going to really get
you off, um healing you exactly. Um, it's the it's
the synthetic chemist who isolates the active ingredient and then
figures out if they can put together a synthetic version
(11:19):
of it. Because one way to get medicine from plants
is simple extraction, right, But that's not the most reliable now,
because you can extract uh, let's say the essential oils
from one one bit and it might be like really
really potent, and another bit might not be so it's
not like it's not consistent across the board, right, And
(11:39):
if one bit makes it into one jar of that
stuff and the other bit makes it into one, somebody
who's in pain is not going to get any relief.
The other person is going to die because they're gonna
get like eighty times that feel really really good depending
on what happens. Um So syn synthesis is the artificial
synthesis is the um preferred means of of figuring out
(12:05):
how to make a reasonable fact simile of this what's
in the plant. You're trying to mimic the compounds. And
I'm like, if you make it and it's the same thing,
it has the same molecular structure as what's found in
the plant, but you made it in the lab, it's
still the same thing. Right. It's like a test tube baby,
Like you're the baby is still a real human. This
(12:28):
is still a real compound. I guess on a molecular level, sure,
But yeah, I don't know. That's a good question. I
thought that somebody much smarter than us probably is like, oh, boys,
I'll send you an email. I'll let you know. I'm
looking forward to that one. I have to say, um,
and cheapness is the other reasons. Yes, Well, it's cheaper
(12:50):
to synthesize something once you figure it out. I'm sure
it's a very long, expensive process, but once you figure
it out, you're like, has put a couple of hydrogens
in with that helium and want to stand back? Yeah,
and and better for the environment to like, if something
has to stay plant based, you're gonna need a lot
of that plant That's true, you know what I'm saying.
So we have a lot of success stories in UM
(13:11):
synthesizing drugs from plants. Right. Quinine a part of one
of my favorite drinks, Gin and tonic. You know it.
Quinine is pretty across the board, a pretty awesome thing,
I guess. Yeah, that's why tonic water is called tonic
water because it has quinine in it and it's a
tonic for malaria. Yeah, it's very small amount, but I
guess it gives it that signature taste. And don't go
(13:33):
with the diet. It's awful. There's a diet tonic it's
not very good. You know, I taste that is super better.
Remember we when we did the how taste works article,
I figured out that I am a super taster of bitterness,
like I can barely tolerate tonic water. It's so bitter.
Really yeah, interesting campari, don't even get me started. But
(13:54):
sometimes I torture myself and just have some anyway, And
tonic I've never mixed with explode. So quinine is used
to treat malaria based on the chinchona bark. Then you got,
let's say, another example, dioxin. I'm sorry, dioxin treating heart conditions.
And that comes from the lovely fox glove. The lovely,
(14:16):
lovely fox glove that you grow in your garden. We
do grow it in my garden. Although my fox glove
is dead right now. It's kind of depressing. Yes, it
is very dead. Oh no, I'm in depressing. Yeah, of
course I look at dead plants. Why are you not
watering it frequiently? No, I don't know what the deal
was with the fox glove. It might not have transplanted
it soon enough, or it might not do well in
(14:38):
a hundred and tin heat index heat um sort of shady.
Emily is the gardener. I'm just the gardener's assistant. The
heavy lifter. Another great example that you listed. This is
your article, right, yeah, okay, is morphine. Yeah, the alkaloid
(14:59):
from poppy plan It was synthesized into diacetal morphine and
sold commercially by Bear for twelve years as heroin. Yeah,
that's where heroin came from, called heroin. I'm just gonna
go to the drug store and get some heroin. That's awesome. Yeah.
And what's what's crazy is the heroine that's created today.
(15:21):
You can make a case is um synthesize every time
a batch is made because it's it's derived from the
opium poppy. But then you screw with it a little
bit to make something different, slightly different. So um. But yes,
Bear invented heroin. Wow, it's amazing. Um. And then Bear
also invented aspirin, which is derived from willow bark. That's right.
(15:46):
And are you gonna say, uh, a set of salic acid?
Nice one, that's aspirin. But what what's the natural compound? Um? Salison? Yes,
salison um. And that was that was everybody's known about
willow bark for at least some Syppocrates who wrote about
it um. And he was a Greek and he lived
(16:06):
in probably like the third century BC, fourth century BC.
I always I wish we used zero more in this culture.
It's so screwy, I know, but I love it. Anytime
you're trying to place a time like this, you always
kind of give this look up like you're trying to
remember hanging out with that person, like forth saying no,
(16:27):
I think that was third remember correctly, Yeah, so yeah
it was. I mean it was an anti inflammatory and
a fever reducer way back then. Still is, And that's
one of the cool things when you people that poop
poo Eastern medicine and things, it's like a lot of
this stuff we use today is just a synthesized version
of rubbing bark on your face and a lot, a lot,
(16:48):
a lot more than you'd think. El Dopa, which is
used to treat Parkinson's, derived from a plant. Um there's
a whole awesome list if you if you search um
uh plants synthesized drugs or drugs synthesized plants and a
search engine, I think the first result is going to
be this list from like the year two thousands of
(17:11):
modern drugs that were from plants. Yes, and possibly my
all time favorite, valium was derived from Valerian root, which
I found out and just started taking a lot of
Valerian root. Now you can make a t from it,
and it's does it chill you up? Really? Yeah? It
will knock you out too, if really concentrated. But it
(17:33):
stinks that I haven't and I want to see o
A right now. I am not in any way, shape
or form recommending anyone try anything that I ever say
that I do. Ever, even that's like, that's in a
supplement store, right it is. But you know what, that's
funny you're saying that because I was listening to why
why doesn't the f d A regulate herbs? And we
(17:56):
had this conversation that it's like, because it's in a
natural food store, we just think that it's like, oh,
it's fine, it's harmless. But you could totally odeon any
number of things in a natural food store. It's because
the FDA doesn't regulate it that it appears harmless even
though it is. Yeah. Um, this brings up a point, Josh,
that I think have always believed that the there is
(18:21):
no disease that wherein the cure is not somewhere on
the planet Earth. Oh is that you believe that? I've
always thought that? And this you know this is true?
Look at all, Like every plant that is eventually synthesized
into medicine. I think the answers are all out there.
It's just a matter of God's great scavenger hunt. Yeah. Maybe,
(18:41):
so I like that idea. Okay, I've been hitting you
with the home dingers lately, haven't I you? So you
can kind of see Aspirin has been around for a while,
Heroine has been around for a while, Tonic has been
around for a while. Um, we're still making stuff from plants,
but we've also figured out another way to use plants
(19:02):
for medicine. And let's to use like UH enzymes from
the plants as catalysts and UH chemical reactions cells as
little petrie dishes almost. Yeah, Basically, if you want to
carry out a um A chemical reaction in a safe
environment injected into a plant cell, it's a great little
house for it. And they're little factories. They make all
(19:23):
sorts of stuff we need in chemical reactions to synthesize drugs,
so they help in all sorts of ways. So up
with plants, yes, but not just plants chuck, Not just
plants that we might like to just chew on once
in a while. Like Valerian right, but also poisons. For
for just as long as um medicinal plants have been
(19:46):
used as drugs, we've also used poisons as well. Yeah,
that papyrus, uh you were talking about from lux Or,
Egypt that listed all the drugs and plant based drugs,
it also listed a lot of poisons and a lots
of a lot of antidotes to those poisons. Yeah, because
I mean, once we figured out there's such thing as poison,
we started looking for ways to cure them, right, And
(20:06):
that kind of follows your your logic that, um, there's
you know, there's an antidote to every poison, yeah, right,
for every malady. I believe that, And not because of
any like deep research, but just because of things like this,
and because I think the earth is structured that way. Balance, right.
(20:27):
But even before that um homeostasis, Yes, even before that
papyrus though about years before there is a cham i
Egyptian pharaoh named Many's and he was the first person
documented to conduct research into poisons because they kill people
with poison for years. Socrates was famously killed in BC.
(20:50):
That's the fourth century. I wonder how they first discovered
that some poisons could actually heal you. I don't know,
maybe by killing someone. Maybe right before they die they
were like, geez, my back feels great all of a sudden, right,
and they're like, oh, then they die. Yeah, I don't know,
just an idea. Um. We have had a lot of
hair brain ideas of what can cure you, like, um,
(21:14):
whiskey to cure a snake bite, right, if you're in
the Old West, pour some whiskey on it. Right. So
in the nine twenties some Brazilian um researchers put that
to the test and found that not only is it
patently untrue, but it actually makes things worse. Yeah, it
speeds up the blood flow. Yeah, the alcohol does, so
(21:35):
the delivery of the venom is just much quicker. Yeah.
I think the whiskey remedy I would choose is here,
drink a lot of this because you've been bitten by
a snake and you're gonna die, right, so you might
as well just numb the pain. And no one, no
one ever had a patient where it actually worked. They
just heard of a patient where it worked. That's right, right, Um.
(21:56):
But the same Brazilian doctors came up with a way
too curious snake bite, didn't they. Yeah, and this is
amazing to me too. Everyone knows about anti vennon, which
most people call anti venom. It is but although I
think I've seen venom is acceptable now because so many
people use it or something, well, some of our linguists
friends and more progressive ones are like, just let language
(22:17):
to go where it's going exactly, um decimate for instance. Uh,
what they found out was they can use poison to
fight poison. So by injecting a snake's venom into something
of large that can take it, like a horse, they
would build up an immune system. I bet there's some
trial in air there too, but I can't you just
see where they're like they inject the horses some venom
(22:39):
and go around to its face and punch in there.
So they would inject it into the horse, punch them
in the face, and then the horse would eventually, you know,
build up an immunity and produce antibodies called anti venom,
and then they would extract that from the horse the
hemoglobe in front of the blood. Now we got an
(23:00):
anti evnom that we can use on humans. And so
those the anti event and those anybody's when somebody is
bit by a snake, when use the ant evnin that's
derived from that snake snake's venom. Uh those anybody's go
into too, the human find the anybody's find the venom
and cling to it so that you can't do anything.
(23:20):
It's like off me, no, I'll never let you go.
And I want to know how that first started to
That's who was the first person who thought maybe this
poison that kills us can heal us. These Brazilian doctors
were the first ones. And so let's inject into a
horse and to see it's just amazing because think about it,
I mean it's so massive, No that that makes sense,
(23:42):
but just the initial idea, the spark of curiosity, which
we always talk about, it's pretty amazing, gorgeous. Yeah yeah, so, um, chuck,
if you this is no one knows this yet. This
is the big secret. But this podcast, this episode is
based on two articles. And did you find the common
thread between the two articles, Um, Sean Connery Willie Nilly
(24:05):
Willy Nilly in both articles you say that a lot though,
that's I can see that. But did you know willy
Nilly's hyphenated? Yeah, I thought it was capitalized like a name.
Just the Willie part is capitalized willy nilly. So these
Brazilian doctors figured that out right, they were not the
first to figure out that, hey, this thing that kills
(24:26):
me could also in a certain way. At the very least,
this is very um uh. This part using poisons right
to cure other problems is very logical. It's saying, this
poison does this, and this malady does the opposite. So
if you apply this poison to this malady, it should
(24:48):
bring you back to homeostasis hopefully, which is what we're
all searching for. And one of the first guys to
to follow this reasoning to the very dangerous conclusion of
here take this deadly nightshade um was a Scottish researcher
named Thomas Frasier. Are you gonna try this word? Uh?
Setal colin stays inhibitor. Wow, thank you you practice that one.
(25:11):
That was the first time I said it out loud,
although I mouthed it a few times. Well, he's atropine
as that thing that you just said that's found in
deadly nightshade belladonna very potent hallucinogen um, very dangerous poison
as well. And this atropine, which is an active ingredient
and contains an alkaloid that this UM, Thomas Fraser figured out,
(25:34):
combats the UM the effects of antrax. Yeah, so antrax
and saran gas similarly, they're both nerve toxins and the
way that they kill you this is horrible. I know,
it's unbelievable. So, like you have this thing called a
setal colin stairs and uh, it's a normal it's a
normal enzyme in your body. That UM basically tells your
(25:58):
neurons to fire, your nerves fire because it says, hey,
go fire UM, and it breaks down naturally. What saren
and antrax do is they prevent it from being broken
out and it just hangs out in your synapses and
tells your nerves to keep firing and firing and firing,
and your body just overloads on electrical charges and you
(26:18):
die very painfully, very painfully because you feel everything because
all the nerves in your body are firing way more
than they should be. UM. So what what Scottish physician
Thomas Fraser figured out is that atropine is an acetal
colline stays inhibitor, so it goes in and basically binds
the receptors where the acetal colling stays would normally bind.
(26:41):
It's that itself and hence atropine. This poison can prevent
the effects of antrax and saren and that's still used today.
Ironically from the Deadly nightshade plant. The whole concept of
using poisonous medicine is just dripping with irony. It is
it is Josh. Another thing they're doing these days at
(27:03):
the University of Buffalo is they are using um chilan
tarantula rose tarantula to combat heart attack death. So cell
walls have these little channels that open when the cell stretches,
and they basically helped to contract and release. Your heart
muscles are probably just contract well. They they channel the
(27:23):
ions through. These are ion channels. The ions give it
the electrical signal, so it's part of the pumping, right.
But if these things get too wide, there will be
too many positive ions, and that is basically what could
potentially lead to a heart attack because it throws off
the rhythm, and your heart attack is is just um
a rhythmic heartbeat. So this tarantula of enom binds to
(27:44):
these channels and blocks it from passing through and potentially
saves people from heart attacks. Tarantula in them. Yeah, and scorpions. Yeah,
I told you that I knew someone who was undergoing
that therapy. We talked about that in the most with
the most venomous creature on what we did. Yeah, And
I tried to find research on him today to see
if he is still fighting his fight with cancer, and
(28:06):
I could not find out. But there's a guy I
could ask and I got a lot of hope. This
guy's a big inspiration for me. Well, it's good. Let
everybody know. I will unless it's bad news and then
I will just not speak of it. But what we
were talking about is scorpion venom UH is being used
to treat in his case, brain brain cancer, the Israeli
(28:28):
yellow scorpion, and it has a protein that binds itself
to UH cancer cells found in glioma's and that is
brain cancer actually, and it it basically keeps it from
replicating itself, keeps he cells from spreading. Well it does.
And they also figured out that you can attach a
(28:49):
UM basically a radioactive iodine to this venom, the protein
found in the venom, and so the venom goes and
seeks out the glioma and it brings with it along
for the ride this radioactive iodine and as we all know,
cancer cells don't like radiation, so it basically seeks in destroys.
It's like a vehicle for it. It is. Is this
(29:10):
the iron oxide nanoparticles? I don't know? All right, here's
the deal. This is what I got. Chlorotoxin is the
chemical that affects the protein, and the protein is what
helps spread the cancer. This is new. I think they
have a new study where they got chemically bonded iron
oxide nanoparticles. They put that with the lab made version
(29:34):
of the chlorotoxin and they created these nanoprobes. Each nanoprobe
can carry twenty chlorotoxin molecules. Did they paint like that's
basically what it is. So it's tumor cell uptakes a
single nanoparticle. It's absorbing a lot of this chlorotoxin it once.
So basically they did this on on mice and they
(29:57):
found that with the nanoparticles that there are the nanoprobes
that they're using, um it fights the tumor by percent
compared to of just the venom. So I guess they've
given it a little super car. They can hold a
lot of this stuff in the trunk. That is really cool. Yeah, good.
(30:18):
Up with mice, hunt, up with mice, up with scorpion venom,
down with cancer? Right, Well, you got anything else? I
do not. I don't either, Chuck. I think let's turn
out better than I thought. Oh yeah, I had this
turned out exactly how I hoped it would. Really yeah,
I thought it was gonna be great and it was.
That was very nice. Uh. If you want to check
(30:40):
out these two articles, you can type in poison medicine
and plant medicine into the search bar how stuff works
dot Com. That will bring both of them up, along
with a bunch of other cool stuff in our wonderful
search page. Um. And since I said search bar, you
know that means it's time for what they spook question
and an answer session. We do this from time to time, Josh,
(31:07):
we throw it on Facebook. He ask us anything. We'll
zip through as many of these as we can the
next couple of episodes. I like how people do ask
us anything and then we ignore it a lot of it.
Save these, by the way, because we may not be
done with these. I printed them out for us. Go ahead,
you take the first one. Ah. This one's from Cyrus
(31:28):
Brojas at the time when it pronounced his name. Uh,
do you guys really have cubes right next to each
other at the office? Not only do we have cubes
right next to each other? Now, Chuck, you moved and
we're like, we don't share a wall anymore, but there's
nothing but open space between us. Yeah, I'm behind you
and you are behind me. We're like five ft from
(31:50):
one another. So I you did not like it first?
It was not so I disliked it. It It was just weird, man,
It's so weird. Um. So now I spend my days
is kind of staring at Chuck while he researches and things. Yeah. Uh.
This from Emily Tran, What has been your most interesting
or memorable dream to date? Um? I, Emily, have celebrity
(32:14):
dreams all the time where I am really good buddies
with Larry David or Jack Black, whoever my heroes are,
and they're really realistic and always wake up and and
very disappointed. Huh that that's not the case. You have?
You had some friendships with some of your heroes these days? Think, Yeah,
but not Larry David yet. Maybe one day, maybe one day. Um,
(32:36):
you got a memorable dream? Yeah, I do. I don't
remember the dream but um, I'm gonna bring you me
in here on this one. She tells me that for
three nights in a row, I would sit up and
point like at the ceiling, be like, what's that kid
doing up there? And she'd be like, what are you
talking about? Look? And there'd be nothing there, of course,
(32:57):
and she'd be like, what do you mean? And I thing,
let's go back this week. I have no recollection of it.
Whatsoever your house might be haunted, dudes, I have no
idea what that dream was or anything like that. So,
but there's kids like in our ceiling. It's scored three
nights in the run, Tom Blake, there's a bustle in
my head, drow. What should I do? I think everyone
(33:18):
knows the answer. Don't be alarmed? Yeah, technically that's the
first step, though, That's like, first, don't be alarmed, then
something right? So what comes after that? I don't know.
We not to ask Jimmy Page or maybe Robert Playing
wrote that. I say, go back inside, go into your
house and beware the child on the ceiling. What country
would you like to live in other than the States.
(33:40):
I've always wanted to live in Spain. I think Spain
would be really neat to live in, although their government
is in so much turmoil and they have like a
whole separatist region. Um, if everybody could just mellow out
in Spain, I I I would drop out. You never
hear from me again. I'd be on some island or something.
Would you do island living? I could do island living
(34:00):
as well, if they had electricity and all that stuff,
like it has to be a rich guy's island. A
rich guy's island. Yeah. Um, let me see what is
your favorite thing? This is Jason Carpenter. What is your
favorite thing a listener has ever sent you in the mail?
Beer ranks pretty high there. Um, beat Jerky, little little
(34:22):
bit sweets. I always like seeing that package, right, the
honeycombs one. Did you have those? Yeah? That's because my
all time favorite little bit sweets? Candy coffee. You've gotten
coffee getting coffee? Yeah? The beat Jerky was really high
up there. It's like buds, smoked meats or something. Since
from a listener ound in California. Oh that lady that
(34:43):
printed her photographs on the paper that she made. That
that was pretty neat. Yeah, we get lots of cool stuff.
It's I don't want to hurt people's fee mugs were
pretty awesome. I have still use that unicorn tears. I
like the Joe Garden's book. Yeah, that was nice. We
get a bunch of cool stuff. It's tots are really
separated out because we've gotten some cool postcards even all right,
(35:05):
And I want to say my last one, Um, the
last one I rose from Janetsey Patrick. I realized I
forgot to ask her to tell her that. Tell her? Yeah,
how about one more each? Uh? Classic debate Power to
be Invisible or Fly? Um? I would fly. I don't
think i'd want to know what most people have to
say about me when I'm not around. Yeah, I would
(35:25):
fly too, because that means I wouldn't have to fly
commercially anymore, which is something I hate passionately. And that one,
by the way, was um, Shanna McCann, thanks for that.
I'm gonna finish up with Melissa Rosenthal. When you were children,
what were your favorite books? Um? I am going to
say generally anything by shel Silverstein. When I was young, young,
(35:49):
into my little tween years, I got really into bloom
County the comic, got all those books, and then my
favorite book, though the first book I ever read, really read,
was when I was like eight or nine. I read
The Great Christmas Kidnapping Caper and it was released in
(36:10):
nineteen eight. Award winning children's book about these mice that
live in Macy's in New York. Sounds cool. Santa Claus
is kidnapped and they have to figure it out and
track of the case. Why is everybody always kidnapedything? I
don't know, but I have no idea why this hasn't
been like a Disney movie. It was excellent. I read
it every year for like seven to twelve nice and
(36:32):
it was really good. What's yours? Uh? Probably my favorite
little kid's book was Huper Humperdinck not Him, which is
uh in that Dr Seuss camp but not a Doctor
Seusee book, you know what I'm talking about. Um. I
read a lot of Richard Scary and Barren Stain Bears,
and then as I got a little older, I reade
(36:52):
Ramona Quimby books for years. Those never read those. We
both did Encyclopedia Brown too. Yeah, it's cool. I'll always
remember he knew that that one kid was fake crying,
and that he was the culprit because the kid put
fake tears like on the outside of his eyes, but
you always try from the inside. Yeah, what a dumb kid.
Everyone knows that, but a lot of the kids see
(37:13):
grapple with were pretty stupid. Yeah that's true. I'd like
to read this today and see fucking figure him out. Oh, Betty,
just be like, I can't read this, you think. Yeah. Well,
if you have questions for us, you can always post
them on Facebook, Facebook, dot com, slash stuff you Should Know. UM.
You can also tweet to us at s y s
K podcast and UM. You can reach us regular snail
(37:36):
email at stuff podcast. At how stuff works dot com
for more on this and thousands of other topics, is
it how stuff works dot com. Want more how stuff works,
check out our blogs on the house. Stuff works dot
(37:57):
com home page. Brought to you by the reinvented two
thousand twelve Camry. It's ready, are you
Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera.
It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff you Should Know
from house Stuff Works dot com? Hey, and welcome to
the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant,
(00:21):
and this is stuff you should know from our beloved website,
how stuff Works dot com. That's right, we work for
a website. And did you know that? Yeah? You know,
when people ask me what I do, like, I don't know.
I met some friend Emily t other day and she's like,
what do you do? I always just say I work
for a website, and the when it starts in on stuff,
I'm just like, yeah, I just I work for a website. Jo.
(00:43):
It's just easy that way. Not only do you work
for it, you are the website. Is what you should say.
I have lobbied for Chuck how Chuck works dot com.
But people would sign on to that. Man. Uh yeah,
this would have been a much better way to start
out the future of the Internet one huh. Probably. So
instead of we're gonna go back way back, Chuck back
(01:05):
in time? Um? Is that Huey Lewis sort of He's
playing Tomorrow Night or tonight where I think he's doing Chastain,
He's doing like you know, the Memphis uh Stacks Music,
Memphis Soul Show, what along with your favorite Huey Lewis classics?
What I did not know this? How did you not
(01:27):
tell me this? I didn't know? Would you be seriously
want to go? I would totally go see Huey Lewis. Dude,
have you ever heard Sports? Yeah? I had Sports when
I was one of the greatest albums ever released. It
was one of the top albums of that year. From
beginning to finished, that was a great album. Anyway, Yes,
I would see Huey Lewis, and now I figured out
how to get there in a few hours. I don't
(01:48):
know if it's tonight, but I heard a promo for
it today on the radio, so it's good, good, good
to know. Um, well, Chuck, we're gonna go even further
back than the height of Huey Lewis's career. We're gonna
go several thousand years before that. Okay, Now we'll go
back to about the height of Hughey Lewis's career, maybe
a little before it. When I was a young lad
(02:09):
and I was watching TV. Remember those time life books
that we talked about here there. So there was one
set that, um it was like Mysteries of Mankind or
Mysteries of History or something like that, and I remember
clearly it said how could ancient civilizations perform brain surgery?
And patients survived? And there's this kind of like did
(02:30):
almost caveman looking guy like with like a scar on
his head and he looked at the camera like, yeah,
I'm still alive, but it hurts, you know. I saw
that and I went it just captured me. Right. Well,
I came to find out that that was a real thing,
and that, apart from a lot of the stuff you
find in time life books, it was correct. There's such
(02:53):
a thing as trep a nation and people actually did
survive it. Talk about this in the lobotomies. I think
so because I know we had we had to of
But trepid nation has been around as a surgical procedure.
It's brain surgery in that the brain is affected by it.
Sometimes they went in and poked around, but for the
most part it was just cutting away a piece of
(03:13):
the skull in the scalp to relieve pressure on the brain. Yeah, right,
And they did the same thing in a much more
sophisticated way these days, for like swelling of the brain. Right,
and some traditional societies still carry out trepid nation today. Yeah,
but um, as I said, it was successful, some um
Andian cultures showed evidence of like at success rate, which
(03:39):
is pretty good as far as I know, right, not bad.
But this is a really ancient procedure. This is um Neolithic, right,
seven thousand and two thousand BC. That's a long time ago. Yeah,
that's like, uh four to nine thousand years ago. And
if you think about that to nine thousand years ago,
if they could successfully seventy percent of the time they
could successfully open your skull up, well they that with
(04:03):
a hundred percent successful Yeah, but you could remove your
heart hundred percent success. Right. But um, so trepid nation
is this ancient form of surgery. And about the same time,
probably people started figuring out that not only could they
perform surgery, but if they wanted to, they could hang
(04:25):
their shingle out and practice medicine if they knew what
they were talking about with plants, right, that's right. So
for a long time we suspect UH indigenous groups uh
had some sort of idea understanding about what plants were,
what what plants could be used for. That's right. But
then about there is this explosion, right, yes, this was
(04:48):
after the ancient Egyptians and pharaohs poked around and the
Sumerians with medicinal plants, um, China, Africa and India, that's
what it really exploded. And they actually I started to
list these things and put them down on paper or
whatever they were using at the time, to to papyrus. Well,
in Egypt and ken I, if you want to be technical,
(05:10):
there's a papyrus that's um dated to fifteen fifty three
BC that lists seven different drugs, a lot of which
are plant based, probably almost all. Yeah, I would say,
so they weren't doing synthetic chemical spect they know. But
about the same time, like you said, in Africa and
India and China, like all these people started just jotting
(05:30):
down their understandings of plants. And it was extensive, right yeah,
like rub this on your sore that and it will
ease your pain and suffering exactly, you know, so we
should write that down. A lot of trial and error,
I imagine, isn't that shacks line from that icy hot
and rubbed this there and it'll ease your pain. Um. So,
(05:53):
so these these this understanding, this knowledge was like added
to and subtracted from, you know, over the course of
centuries and in millennia, and then about like the nineteenth century,
there is like a sharp divergence, right, yes, Josh, that
is when uh, in the first edition of the American Pharmacopeia,
(06:15):
early hundreds um drugs at the time we're s plant
based flashboard nineteen sixty only five point three were plant based.
So what happens is you've introduced people that could figure
out how to synthetically duplicate a lot of these plants.
So are they still plant based? Does that even count?
(06:35):
After a while? I think it's kind of like you
know how people say, like this is made with um
our our product not tested on animals. That's because it
uses stuff that's that was tested on animals thirty years
ago and found safe, so no longer. Yes, So I
think it's much the same way where once you synthesize
something enough for you know, a synthetic alkaloid has this effect,
(06:56):
you can use it in all these different ways with
something else that makes sense. So that was a that
represented a real separation from uh, the West and traditional cultures. Right.
This medicinal rift is what I just called it, So
kind of like medicinal rifts um as our understanding of
(07:17):
chemistry and the effects of drugs on the body groove.
Then you know, we we just kind of diverged from
traditional societies. But there came to be an awareness at
some point in time that all of these rainforests that
were destroying, in all of the uncontacted tribes that were
running out, um have a wealth of information that wasn't
(07:40):
listed in these early pharmacopias. Right, Sure that there's a
bunch of understanding of how to cure all sorts of
diseases out there, and we kind of need it. So
out of that has grown this whole field the sub
discipline of anthropology called ethnobotany. Yeah, what was the Connery movie?
(08:01):
They were searching for the cure for cancer in the
jungle Rangoon beyond Rangoon. No, that was Rangoon man. No,
I can't remember the attack of theo. It was the
lady from the Sopranos and Good Fellas and then Sean
Connery and he they were in the jungle, I think
searching for a cure for cancer or something. Good movie.
But that's that's the point though, is that the cure
(08:23):
for cancer maybe out there in some leaf that we
just need to locate and synthesize. Right. The problem is
is like the field of ethnobotany isn't training people to
go out and eat leaves and write down their thoughts
on it. No, you got I guess they're interviewing people
local tribesmen, indigenous folks and saying, hey, tell us what
(08:43):
you know about medicine. Maybe we can learn something from that.
And this is a very very long process. So like, uh,
the and ethnobotanist is probably going to be somebody who
was trained as a botanist and undergraduate school and then
trained in um anthropology, linkinguistics, UM possibly chemistry in grad school.
(09:04):
Got to be a people person. You have to be
able to chat it up with the possible head shrinkers
UM and you go out in the field and you
have to gain the trust of the people who have
this information. It might not be common to the whole
tribe UM. So you have to gain the trust of
the person who knows what plant to use for what,
(09:25):
and then get that information from them in a way
that's agreeable. There's a debate among ethnobotany that's pretty much
resolved these days, but for a long time that end
justified the means, like if you could cure athletes foot,
you know, with this plant, and this guy doesn't want
to give it to you, don't you have a moral
obligation to basically take that information from him, steal it
(09:46):
as it were. Now there's a movement toward making sure
that these people are like their trust isn't broken, that
they're willing to share it, and if they're not willing
to share it, you pay them, pay them money, pay
pay them either way. Compensation is is kind of becoming
a more of a thing among ethnobotanists rather than thank you,
you've done something great here bringing the trucks. Yeah. Well,
(10:09):
not only just what the plant is though, but obviously
they need specifics. They need to know what part of
the plant because you know, I wrote that article a
while back on how you can I think the universal
edibility test. You know some parts of a plant, like
eat the leaf and you can sustain on it. Eat
the root and you die in ten seconds. So what
part of the plant, how much of it to use um,
which would essentially be the prescription, right, And so the
(10:34):
ethnobotanist finds the stuff out, takes it back to the
synthetic chemist, who basically has to go over the you know,
hopefully the ethnobotanist is like, it's the leaves, just focused
on the leaves rather than you know, having to do
this on the plant and the stems and the seeds
or the flowers or whatever. But a crazy job. Imagine
how difficult that is. It is very difficult to synthesize
something like that. Well, first they have to isolate it.
(10:56):
They gotta find out because you know, the local shame
isn't He's not gonna be like, well, it's this alkaloid
in there that's um, you know, going to really get
you off, um healing you exactly. Um, it's the it's
the synthetic chemist who isolates the active ingredient and then
figures out if they can put together a synthetic version
(11:19):
of it. Because one way to get medicine from plants
is simple extraction, right, But that's not the most reliable now,
because you can extract uh, let's say the essential oils
from one one bit and it might be like really
really potent, and another bit might not be so it's
not like it's not consistent across the board, right, And
(11:39):
if one bit makes it into one jar of that
stuff and the other bit makes it into one, somebody
who's in pain is not going to get any relief.
The other person is going to die because they're gonna
get like eighty times that feel really really good depending
on what happens. Um So syn synthesis is the artificial
synthesis is the um preferred means of of figuring out
(12:05):
how to make a reasonable fact simile of this what's
in the plant. You're trying to mimic the compounds. And
I'm like, if you make it and it's the same thing,
it has the same molecular structure as what's found in
the plant, but you made it in the lab, it's
still the same thing. Right. It's like a test tube baby,
Like you're the baby is still a real human. This
(12:28):
is still a real compound. I guess on a molecular level, sure,
But yeah, I don't know. That's a good question. I
thought that somebody much smarter than us probably is like, oh, boys,
I'll send you an email. I'll let you know. I'm
looking forward to that one. I have to say, um,
and cheapness is the other reasons. Yes, Well, it's cheaper
(12:50):
to synthesize something once you figure it out. I'm sure
it's a very long, expensive process, but once you figure
it out, you're like, has put a couple of hydrogens
in with that helium and want to stand back? Yeah,
and and better for the environment to like, if something
has to stay plant based, you're gonna need a lot
of that plant That's true, you know what I'm saying.
So we have a lot of success stories in UM
(13:11):
synthesizing drugs from plants. Right. Quinine a part of one
of my favorite drinks, Gin and tonic. You know it.
Quinine is pretty across the board, a pretty awesome thing,
I guess. Yeah, that's why tonic water is called tonic
water because it has quinine in it and it's a
tonic for malaria. Yeah, it's very small amount, but I
guess it gives it that signature taste. And don't go
(13:33):
with the diet. It's awful. There's a diet tonic it's
not very good. You know, I taste that is super better.
Remember we when we did the how taste works article,
I figured out that I am a super taster of bitterness,
like I can barely tolerate tonic water. It's so bitter.
Really yeah, interesting campari, don't even get me started. But
(13:54):
sometimes I torture myself and just have some anyway, And
tonic I've never mixed with explode. So quinine is used
to treat malaria based on the chinchona bark. Then you got,
let's say, another example, dioxin. I'm sorry, dioxin treating heart conditions.
And that comes from the lovely fox glove. The lovely,
(14:16):
lovely fox glove that you grow in your garden. We
do grow it in my garden. Although my fox glove
is dead right now. It's kind of depressing. Yes, it
is very dead. Oh no, I'm in depressing. Yeah, of
course I look at dead plants. Why are you not
watering it frequiently? No, I don't know what the deal
was with the fox glove. It might not have transplanted
it soon enough, or it might not do well in
(14:38):
a hundred and tin heat index heat um sort of shady.
Emily is the gardener. I'm just the gardener's assistant. The
heavy lifter. Another great example that you listed. This is
your article, right, yeah, okay, is morphine. Yeah, the alkaloid
(14:59):
from poppy plan It was synthesized into diacetal morphine and
sold commercially by Bear for twelve years as heroin. Yeah,
that's where heroin came from, called heroin. I'm just gonna
go to the drug store and get some heroin. That's awesome. Yeah.
And what's what's crazy is the heroine that's created today.
(15:21):
You can make a case is um synthesize every time
a batch is made because it's it's derived from the
opium poppy. But then you screw with it a little
bit to make something different, slightly different. So um. But yes,
Bear invented heroin. Wow, it's amazing. Um. And then Bear
also invented aspirin, which is derived from willow bark. That's right.
(15:46):
And are you gonna say, uh, a set of salic acid?
Nice one, that's aspirin. But what what's the natural compound? Um? Salison? Yes,
salison um. And that was that was everybody's known about
willow bark for at least some Syppocrates who wrote about
it um. And he was a Greek and he lived
(16:06):
in probably like the third century BC, fourth century BC.
I always I wish we used zero more in this culture.
It's so screwy, I know, but I love it. Anytime
you're trying to place a time like this, you always
kind of give this look up like you're trying to
remember hanging out with that person, like forth saying no,
(16:27):
I think that was third remember correctly, Yeah, so yeah
it was. I mean it was an anti inflammatory and
a fever reducer way back then. Still is, And that's
one of the cool things when you people that poop
poo Eastern medicine and things, it's like a lot of
this stuff we use today is just a synthesized version
of rubbing bark on your face and a lot, a lot,
(16:48):
a lot more than you'd think. El Dopa, which is
used to treat Parkinson's, derived from a plant. Um there's
a whole awesome list if you if you search um
uh plants synthesized drugs or drugs synthesized plants and a
search engine, I think the first result is going to
be this list from like the year two thousands of
(17:11):
modern drugs that were from plants. Yes, and possibly my
all time favorite, valium was derived from Valerian root, which
I found out and just started taking a lot of
Valerian root. Now you can make a t from it,
and it's does it chill you up? Really? Yeah? It
will knock you out too, if really concentrated. But it
(17:33):
stinks that I haven't and I want to see o
A right now. I am not in any way, shape
or form recommending anyone try anything that I ever say
that I do. Ever, even that's like, that's in a
supplement store, right it is. But you know what, that's
funny you're saying that because I was listening to why
why doesn't the f d A regulate herbs? And we
(17:56):
had this conversation that it's like, because it's in a
natural food store, we just think that it's like, oh,
it's fine, it's harmless. But you could totally odeon any
number of things in a natural food store. It's because
the FDA doesn't regulate it that it appears harmless even
though it is. Yeah. Um, this brings up a point, Josh,
that I think have always believed that the there is
(18:21):
no disease that wherein the cure is not somewhere on
the planet Earth. Oh is that you believe that? I've
always thought that? And this you know this is true?
Look at all, Like every plant that is eventually synthesized
into medicine. I think the answers are all out there.
It's just a matter of God's great scavenger hunt. Yeah. Maybe,
(18:41):
so I like that idea. Okay, I've been hitting you
with the home dingers lately, haven't I you? So you
can kind of see Aspirin has been around for a while,
Heroine has been around for a while, Tonic has been
around for a while. Um, we're still making stuff from plants,
but we've also figured out another way to use plants
(19:02):
for medicine. And let's to use like UH enzymes from
the plants as catalysts and UH chemical reactions cells as
little petrie dishes almost. Yeah, Basically, if you want to
carry out a um A chemical reaction in a safe
environment injected into a plant cell, it's a great little
house for it. And they're little factories. They make all
(19:23):
sorts of stuff we need in chemical reactions to synthesize drugs,
so they help in all sorts of ways. So up
with plants, yes, but not just plants chuck, Not just
plants that we might like to just chew on once
in a while. Like Valerian right, but also poisons. For
for just as long as um medicinal plants have been
(19:46):
used as drugs, we've also used poisons as well. Yeah,
that papyrus, uh you were talking about from lux Or,
Egypt that listed all the drugs and plant based drugs,
it also listed a lot of poisons and a lots
of a lot of antidotes to those poisons. Yeah, because
I mean, once we figured out there's such thing as poison,
we started looking for ways to cure them, right, And
(20:06):
that kind of follows your your logic that, um, there's
you know, there's an antidote to every poison, yeah, right,
for every malady. I believe that, And not because of
any like deep research, but just because of things like this,
and because I think the earth is structured that way. Balance, right.
(20:27):
But even before that um homeostasis, Yes, even before that
papyrus though about years before there is a cham i
Egyptian pharaoh named Many's and he was the first person
documented to conduct research into poisons because they kill people
with poison for years. Socrates was famously killed in BC.
(20:50):
That's the fourth century. I wonder how they first discovered
that some poisons could actually heal you. I don't know,
maybe by killing someone. Maybe right before they die they
were like, geez, my back feels great all of a sudden, right,
and they're like, oh, then they die. Yeah, I don't know,
just an idea. Um. We have had a lot of
hair brain ideas of what can cure you, like, um,
(21:14):
whiskey to cure a snake bite, right, if you're in
the Old West, pour some whiskey on it. Right. So
in the nine twenties some Brazilian um researchers put that
to the test and found that not only is it
patently untrue, but it actually makes things worse. Yeah, it
speeds up the blood flow. Yeah, the alcohol does, so
(21:35):
the delivery of the venom is just much quicker. Yeah.
I think the whiskey remedy I would choose is here,
drink a lot of this because you've been bitten by
a snake and you're gonna die, right, so you might
as well just numb the pain. And no one, no
one ever had a patient where it actually worked. They
just heard of a patient where it worked. That's right, right, Um.
(21:56):
But the same Brazilian doctors came up with a way
too curious snake bite, didn't they. Yeah, and this is
amazing to me too. Everyone knows about anti vennon, which
most people call anti venom. It is but although I
think I've seen venom is acceptable now because so many
people use it or something, well, some of our linguists
friends and more progressive ones are like, just let language
(22:17):
to go where it's going exactly, um decimate for instance. Uh,
what they found out was they can use poison to
fight poison. So by injecting a snake's venom into something
of large that can take it, like a horse, they
would build up an immune system. I bet there's some
trial in air there too, but I can't you just
see where they're like they inject the horses some venom
(22:39):
and go around to its face and punch in there.
So they would inject it into the horse, punch them
in the face, and then the horse would eventually, you know,
build up an immunity and produce antibodies called anti venom,
and then they would extract that from the horse the
hemoglobe in front of the blood. Now we got an
(23:00):
anti evnom that we can use on humans. And so
those the anti event and those anybody's when somebody is
bit by a snake, when use the ant evnin that's
derived from that snake snake's venom. Uh those anybody's go
into too, the human find the anybody's find the venom
and cling to it so that you can't do anything.
(23:20):
It's like off me, no, I'll never let you go.
And I want to know how that first started to
That's who was the first person who thought maybe this
poison that kills us can heal us. These Brazilian doctors
were the first ones. And so let's inject into a
horse and to see it's just amazing because think about it,
I mean it's so massive, No that that makes sense,
(23:42):
but just the initial idea, the spark of curiosity, which
we always talk about, it's pretty amazing, gorgeous. Yeah yeah, so, um, chuck,
if you this is no one knows this yet. This
is the big secret. But this podcast, this episode is
based on two articles. And did you find the common
thread between the two articles, Um, Sean Connery Willie Nilly
(24:05):
Willy Nilly in both articles you say that a lot though,
that's I can see that. But did you know willy
Nilly's hyphenated? Yeah, I thought it was capitalized like a name.
Just the Willie part is capitalized willy nilly. So these
Brazilian doctors figured that out right, they were not the
first to figure out that, hey, this thing that kills
(24:26):
me could also in a certain way. At the very least,
this is very um uh. This part using poisons right
to cure other problems is very logical. It's saying, this
poison does this, and this malady does the opposite. So
if you apply this poison to this malady, it should
(24:48):
bring you back to homeostasis hopefully, which is what we're
all searching for. And one of the first guys to
to follow this reasoning to the very dangerous conclusion of
here take this deadly nightshade um was a Scottish researcher
named Thomas Frasier. Are you gonna try this word? Uh?
Setal colin stays inhibitor. Wow, thank you you practice that one.
(25:11):
That was the first time I said it out loud,
although I mouthed it a few times. Well, he's atropine
as that thing that you just said that's found in
deadly nightshade belladonna very potent hallucinogen um, very dangerous poison
as well. And this atropine, which is an active ingredient
and contains an alkaloid that this UM, Thomas Fraser figured out,
(25:34):
combats the UM the effects of antrax. Yeah, so antrax
and saran gas similarly, they're both nerve toxins and the
way that they kill you this is horrible. I know,
it's unbelievable. So, like you have this thing called a
setal colin stairs and uh, it's a normal it's a
normal enzyme in your body. That UM basically tells your
(25:58):
neurons to fire, your nerves fire because it says, hey,
go fire UM, and it breaks down naturally. What saren
and antrax do is they prevent it from being broken
out and it just hangs out in your synapses and
tells your nerves to keep firing and firing and firing,
and your body just overloads on electrical charges and you
(26:18):
die very painfully, very painfully because you feel everything because
all the nerves in your body are firing way more
than they should be. UM. So what what Scottish physician
Thomas Fraser figured out is that atropine is an acetal
colline stays inhibitor, so it goes in and basically binds
the receptors where the acetal colling stays would normally bind.
(26:41):
It's that itself and hence atropine. This poison can prevent
the effects of antrax and saren and that's still used today.
Ironically from the Deadly nightshade plant. The whole concept of
using poisonous medicine is just dripping with irony. It is
it is Josh. Another thing they're doing these days at
(27:03):
the University of Buffalo is they are using um chilan
tarantula rose tarantula to combat heart attack death. So cell
walls have these little channels that open when the cell stretches,
and they basically helped to contract and release. Your heart
muscles are probably just contract well. They they channel the
(27:23):
ions through. These are ion channels. The ions give it
the electrical signal, so it's part of the pumping, right.
But if these things get too wide, there will be
too many positive ions, and that is basically what could
potentially lead to a heart attack because it throws off
the rhythm, and your heart attack is is just um
a rhythmic heartbeat. So this tarantula of enom binds to
(27:44):
these channels and blocks it from passing through and potentially
saves people from heart attacks. Tarantula in them. Yeah, and scorpions. Yeah,
I told you that I knew someone who was undergoing
that therapy. We talked about that in the most with
the most venomous creature on what we did. Yeah, And
I tried to find research on him today to see
if he is still fighting his fight with cancer, and
(28:06):
I could not find out. But there's a guy I
could ask and I got a lot of hope. This
guy's a big inspiration for me. Well, it's good. Let
everybody know. I will unless it's bad news and then
I will just not speak of it. But what we
were talking about is scorpion venom UH is being used
to treat in his case, brain brain cancer, the Israeli
(28:28):
yellow scorpion, and it has a protein that binds itself
to UH cancer cells found in glioma's and that is
brain cancer actually, and it it basically keeps it from
replicating itself, keeps he cells from spreading. Well it does.
And they also figured out that you can attach a
(28:49):
UM basically a radioactive iodine to this venom, the protein
found in the venom, and so the venom goes and
seeks out the glioma and it brings with it along
for the ride this radioactive iodine and as we all know,
cancer cells don't like radiation, so it basically seeks in destroys.
It's like a vehicle for it. It is. Is this
(29:10):
the iron oxide nanoparticles? I don't know? All right, here's
the deal. This is what I got. Chlorotoxin is the
chemical that affects the protein, and the protein is what
helps spread the cancer. This is new. I think they
have a new study where they got chemically bonded iron
oxide nanoparticles. They put that with the lab made version
(29:34):
of the chlorotoxin and they created these nanoprobes. Each nanoprobe
can carry twenty chlorotoxin molecules. Did they paint like that's
basically what it is. So it's tumor cell uptakes a
single nanoparticle. It's absorbing a lot of this chlorotoxin it once.
So basically they did this on on mice and they
(29:57):
found that with the nanoparticles that there are the nanoprobes
that they're using, um it fights the tumor by percent
compared to of just the venom. So I guess they've
given it a little super car. They can hold a
lot of this stuff in the trunk. That is really cool. Yeah, good.
(30:18):
Up with mice, hunt, up with mice, up with scorpion venom,
down with cancer? Right, Well, you got anything else? I
do not. I don't either, Chuck. I think let's turn
out better than I thought. Oh yeah, I had this
turned out exactly how I hoped it would. Really yeah,
I thought it was gonna be great and it was.
That was very nice. Uh. If you want to check
(30:40):
out these two articles, you can type in poison medicine
and plant medicine into the search bar how stuff works
dot Com. That will bring both of them up, along
with a bunch of other cool stuff in our wonderful
search page. Um. And since I said search bar, you
know that means it's time for what they spook question
and an answer session. We do this from time to time, Josh,
(31:07):
we throw it on Facebook. He ask us anything. We'll
zip through as many of these as we can the
next couple of episodes. I like how people do ask
us anything and then we ignore it a lot of it.
Save these, by the way, because we may not be
done with these. I printed them out for us. Go ahead,
you take the first one. Ah. This one's from Cyrus
(31:28):
Brojas at the time when it pronounced his name. Uh,
do you guys really have cubes right next to each
other at the office? Not only do we have cubes
right next to each other? Now, Chuck, you moved and
we're like, we don't share a wall anymore, but there's
nothing but open space between us. Yeah, I'm behind you
and you are behind me. We're like five ft from
(31:50):
one another. So I you did not like it first?
It was not so I disliked it. It It was just weird, man,
It's so weird. Um. So now I spend my days
is kind of staring at Chuck while he researches and things. Yeah. Uh.
This from Emily Tran, What has been your most interesting
or memorable dream to date? Um? I, Emily, have celebrity
(32:14):
dreams all the time where I am really good buddies
with Larry David or Jack Black, whoever my heroes are,
and they're really realistic and always wake up and and
very disappointed. Huh that that's not the case. You have?
You had some friendships with some of your heroes these days? Think, Yeah,
but not Larry David yet. Maybe one day, maybe one day. Um,
(32:36):
you got a memorable dream? Yeah, I do. I don't
remember the dream but um, I'm gonna bring you me
in here on this one. She tells me that for
three nights in a row, I would sit up and
point like at the ceiling, be like, what's that kid
doing up there? And she'd be like, what are you
talking about? Look? And there'd be nothing there, of course,
(32:57):
and she'd be like, what do you mean? And I thing,
let's go back this week. I have no recollection of it.
Whatsoever your house might be haunted, dudes, I have no
idea what that dream was or anything like that. So,
but there's kids like in our ceiling. It's scored three
nights in the run, Tom Blake, there's a bustle in
my head, drow. What should I do? I think everyone
(33:18):
knows the answer. Don't be alarmed? Yeah, technically that's the
first step, though, That's like, first, don't be alarmed, then
something right? So what comes after that? I don't know.
We not to ask Jimmy Page or maybe Robert Playing
wrote that. I say, go back inside, go into your
house and beware the child on the ceiling. What country
would you like to live in other than the States.
(33:40):
I've always wanted to live in Spain. I think Spain
would be really neat to live in, although their government
is in so much turmoil and they have like a
whole separatist region. Um, if everybody could just mellow out
in Spain, I I I would drop out. You never
hear from me again. I'd be on some island or something.
Would you do island living? I could do island living
(34:00):
as well, if they had electricity and all that stuff,
like it has to be a rich guy's island. A
rich guy's island. Yeah. Um, let me see what is
your favorite thing? This is Jason Carpenter. What is your
favorite thing a listener has ever sent you in the mail?
Beer ranks pretty high there. Um, beat Jerky, little little
(34:22):
bit sweets. I always like seeing that package, right, the
honeycombs one. Did you have those? Yeah? That's because my
all time favorite little bit sweets? Candy coffee. You've gotten
coffee getting coffee? Yeah? The beat Jerky was really high
up there. It's like buds, smoked meats or something. Since
from a listener ound in California. Oh that lady that
(34:43):
printed her photographs on the paper that she made. That
that was pretty neat. Yeah, we get lots of cool stuff.
It's I don't want to hurt people's fee mugs were
pretty awesome. I have still use that unicorn tears. I
like the Joe Garden's book. Yeah, that was nice. We
get a bunch of cool stuff. It's tots are really
separated out because we've gotten some cool postcards even all right,
(35:05):
And I want to say my last one, Um, the
last one I rose from Janetsey Patrick. I realized I
forgot to ask her to tell her that. Tell her? Yeah,
how about one more each? Uh? Classic debate Power to
be Invisible or Fly? Um? I would fly. I don't
think i'd want to know what most people have to
say about me when I'm not around. Yeah, I would
(35:25):
fly too, because that means I wouldn't have to fly
commercially anymore, which is something I hate passionately. And that one,
by the way, was um, Shanna McCann, thanks for that.
I'm gonna finish up with Melissa Rosenthal. When you were children,
what were your favorite books? Um? I am going to
say generally anything by shel Silverstein. When I was young, young,
(35:49):
into my little tween years, I got really into bloom
County the comic, got all those books, and then my
favorite book, though the first book I ever read, really read,
was when I was like eight or nine. I read
The Great Christmas Kidnapping Caper and it was released in
(36:10):
nineteen eight. Award winning children's book about these mice that
live in Macy's in New York. Sounds cool. Santa Claus
is kidnapped and they have to figure it out and
track of the case. Why is everybody always kidnapedything? I
don't know, but I have no idea why this hasn't
been like a Disney movie. It was excellent. I read
it every year for like seven to twelve nice and
(36:32):
it was really good. What's yours? Uh? Probably my favorite
little kid's book was Huper Humperdinck not Him, which is
uh in that Dr Seuss camp but not a Doctor
Seusee book, you know what I'm talking about. Um. I
read a lot of Richard Scary and Barren Stain Bears,
and then as I got a little older, I reade
(36:52):
Ramona Quimby books for years. Those never read those. We
both did Encyclopedia Brown too. Yeah, it's cool. I'll always
remember he knew that that one kid was fake crying,
and that he was the culprit because the kid put
fake tears like on the outside of his eyes, but
you always try from the inside. Yeah, what a dumb kid.
Everyone knows that, but a lot of the kids see
(37:13):
grapple with were pretty stupid. Yeah that's true. I'd like
to read this today and see fucking figure him out. Oh, Betty,
just be like, I can't read this, you think. Yeah. Well,
if you have questions for us, you can always post
them on Facebook, Facebook, dot com, slash stuff you Should Know. UM.
You can also tweet to us at s y s
K podcast and UM. You can reach us regular snail
(37:36):
email at stuff podcast. At how stuff works dot com
for more on this and thousands of other topics, is
it how stuff works dot com. Want more how stuff works,
check out our blogs on the house. Stuff works dot
(37:57):
com home page. Brought to you by the reinvented two
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