December 24, 2009 • 27 mins
On Christmas eve, Josh and Chuck decide to take that ineffable Stuff You Should Know approach to the celebration known as Christmas. Join the guys as they unravel the mysterious historical roots of the holiday's evolution in this episode.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.
It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff you should know
from house Stuff Works dot com? Ho ho ho, and
welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark with me as
(00:20):
always is Charles W. Shuck. I heart Christmas time, Briant,
Yours is way better than mine. Mine. Sounded like a
an Irish priest leprin. Yeah, terrible, going great, Yeah, this
should be coming out right at Christmas. Yeah, we're gonna
(00:41):
We're gonna plan for that. So if it is, it's
all of you listening out there in podcast land. We
hope you're having a great holiday season. Yeah, yeah, and
safe and well and with family and and uh we
wish you all a merry Christmas and Hanukah and Kwanza
and whatever each used to celebrate ted what's that? I
(01:03):
think that's a Buddhist New Year. Um, there's all sorts
of stuff going on this time of year. Yeah, big time. Yeah,
but we chose to talk about Christmas. Chuck was brought Baptist,
I was raised Catholic. It's what we know. And it's
a pretty interesting story too. And if you're Jewish and
you hate Christmas. You're gonna stick around because you're gonna
love this one, right, Yeah, and you know what, next year,
(01:24):
we will do one on Hanakah. Okay, deal, Yeah, I
actually know a significant amount about Hankka. Well, let's do
it next year, and then a book it and we'll
eventually do Quansa too. Yeah, we'll do that in eleven maybe,
or maybe we'll do like a holiday extravaganza. Buddy. If
if we're still around in two thousand eleven, then we're
either doing something right or something wrong. Haven't decided which. Okay,
(01:45):
all right, Josh Chromas, is that what we're calling it? Christmas? Okay? So, Chuck,
have you ever engaged in um Christmas? Yes, Josh, what's
a year? I've engaged in thirty eight of them? Wow?
That pretty nice, Thank you? That was my int alright,
let's talk about this man. It's so ubiquitous. There's um
(02:06):
people who are usually drunk, dressed up as Santa Claus,
ringing bells asking for donations. There's little kids like screeching
in the middle of aisles and toy stores. There are
um minds like elbowing one another in the face. To
get to that last line, and then there's people who
(02:27):
are um punching Walmart greeters in the stomach for saying
Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas. It's the most contentious
time of the year. Do you know where I am.
I'm at home and I am shopping online. Dude, it
is the way to go. Never again. And you know
what we got to Ohio. I just had the gifts
ship straight to my in law's house. Very smart, no must,
no fuss. Yeah, it's as long as you order early
(02:49):
enough to make sure you're not spending the last week
biting your nails when they arrive in time. I can
tell you, um by experience, that people are very forgiving
if their gifts aren't there. All you do was you
get a little card, you right it inside like you're
getting this, or you print out a picture of it.
It's like it's coming, I promise, and then a coupon
for a free BackRub. I did do coupons once. One year.
(03:12):
I was so broken. I had a friend take a
picture of me standing there with my pockets turned out,
me going like it's like, no, it wasn't last year.
It was like five years ago. And um that was that,
Like everybody kept it. No one turned it in. They
just like they're sure tickets so much. I made birdhouses
one year when I was broken. They were good to sure,
they're nice alright. So let's talk about Christis How do this?
(03:35):
How did this jam get started? Well, Josh, the roots
of Christmas are varied, to say the least. You cannot
riotously very You cannot point to one single thing and
say Christmas was born out of this Jesus's birthday on December.
You can't even point to the aspects of Christmas and
say that each one was born out of this. You can't. Basically,
(03:57):
Christmas is a bunch of different groups that are from
antiquity brought together, right, Yeah. Like, Uh. Most of these
early um versions of Christmas, I guess, if you even
want to call it that were festivals that marked the
winter solstice in Europe, mainly Uh and um Rome. True
(04:19):
Rome had a big one called Saturnalia German pagans. They
honored Odin, who was a god who flew over settlements
at night, blessing some houses and cursing others. Sounds like
coal and switches or treats to me. So that was
a pagan god. Yeah, yeah, Germanic um and then also
(04:43):
you have the Druids who like to contribute um things
like garland and holly to the whole mix. Kissing under
the mistletoe actually is apparently a um euphemism for some
of the sexual practices that went on to the Druidic
Winter Solstice festivals. People probably didn't think they were going
to hear those words in the Christmas podcast. Yeah it's
(05:06):
true though, Oh yeah, um, Christmas was rife with sexuality
and one could even say perversion and and just crazy
parties and in some cases, are you're talking about Rome? That? Yeah,
the Druids were big into it too, apparently the Celts right,
But in Rome they celebrated the pretty Rockets festival called
the Saturnalia from December seventeen. Is that now how you
(05:29):
pronounce it? Okay? I thought you're gonna correct me. And
that honors Saturn, the god of agriculture. And they had
a big carnival and they feasted and gambled and gave
gifts and corrals and got drunk wasted for days. This
is Rome, Yeah, one party like they did. They also
apparently love to stuff um Jews with food until they
(05:51):
were like so full that they could barely move and
then make them raise each other naked through the streets
for everyone else's enjoyment. So there's Christmas. Um, these are
the roots of it. And then, of course, um, you
have Christianity, which effectively took it over in the fourth
century a D. Yeah, they say, we need our own
holiday to rival all these winter solstice shenanigans, right the
(06:13):
fourth the fourth century a D. Really and we are
ce depending on who you are, Um, really kind of
change things. This is when Christianity stepped it up a bit.
That's been saying Augustine was supposedly issuing all these proclamations. Um. Basically,
the Church just made some moves and it it worked.
And they chose December, the day of the Feast of
(06:33):
the Nativity is what it was originally called. And since
they said, hey, pagans, you come over to our religion,
we've got something over here. Uh. It celebrates the birth
of our savior and all that. But you can still
throw down. We're just gonna this is gonna be the
last day. Much like um, fat to ash Wednesday, right
right right fat to Marty gral leads up to ash
(06:54):
Wednesday and the party stops on ash Wednesday, but they
go crazy ahead of time, very much the same thing.
And it can any like this for many many centuries. Yeah,
and and initially it wasn't um. It still wasn't the
big daddy, I mean, Eastern Good Friday still ruled in
the feast, and the Nativity was kind of the lesser
of the three. And um, the Puritans had some problems
(07:15):
with this though they did pretty much any group that
was very doer about um about religion. And we're Christians,
uh outlawed or banned Christmas festivities because yeah, he did
when he took Christmas in and the Puritans in New
England outlawed it. Uh what from sixteen fifty nine to
(07:38):
sixteen eighty one in Boston, no Christmas none And actually
Cromwell um had soldiers patrolling the streets to make sure
there was no revelry whatsoever. And we're told to arrest
anybody they found celebrating Christmas when he outlawed it, um.
And still today Jehovah's witnesses, Christians Christian sect um don't
(07:59):
sell lebrate Christmas because they clearly see it as or
they see it as a clearly pagan holiday. And that
all of these roots have have all these pagan roots
have come together and just got a Christian stamp of approval.
But it ain't. It's really just pagan, right. Yeah. So, uh,
let's move forward a little bit in our in our
time machine to the eighteenth and nineteenth century. This is
(08:20):
when things start to calm down a little bit and
it becomes a little bit more like the Christmas we
know and love, including eighteen forty six when Queen Victoria's
German husband Albert, Prince Albert, he introduced a Christmas tree
to the castle and they essentially got their picture made
in front of it. It was an engraving at the time.
(08:41):
Of course they had to stand there for four weeks. Yeah,
but it was their children in them in front of
the tree, and that's kind of may have been the
first Christmas card like we do today. That's nice. You
send Christmas cards. No, I don't even know. I'm such
a slacker. I've never sent Christmas cards. Yeah, so don't
be offended. Friends who listened. None of my friends listen
to this. But when I don't see Christmas cards, I
(09:02):
just don't do it. I haven't done it. I'll do
that one day. Um, okay, So Chuck, let's talk about
gift giving. Okay. In two thousand seven, Consumer Reports said
that they issued an article in November of two seven,
I said twelve million Americans were still paying off Christmas
from the year prior. Just a year later, twelve million
(09:23):
Americans were still making payments on their credit card gifts.
So in addition to hearing is that Santas slagh and
jingle bells, I hear Josh flying overhead? I think you're hallucinating,
am I. I don't hear anything. In addition to that,
do you know what I hear is the sound of
credit card machines being well, yeah that's old, but yeah,
the swipe of the credit cards over a number of things.
(09:45):
Thank you. That's what I hear. It is decidedly commercial
now and one of the reasons why people are still
paying it off is, um, we spend an ass load
of money on Christmas presents and decorations, eight billion dollars
on lights alone. Nuts. Listen to this dude in the
National Retail Federation, which likes to come out with their
annual forecast of how much Americans are going to spend
(10:07):
on holiday gifts and just anything that has to do
with the holidays. They forecasted a hundred and seventy three
billion in nineteen ninety eight. Wow, this is this is
the height of the dot com bubble and everybody was
rich back then. Everybody You weren't rich either, should uh?
Two thousand nine, this year, the National Retail Federation projects
(10:31):
that we will spend four hundred and thirty seven point
six billion dollars in a recession. That's not Yeah, I
don't drop that much on Christmas. We're gonna spend half
a trillion dollars on Christmas in a recession. That's a
bad year. I know. And you know what, I think.
They've said that during recessions even sometimes you go out
(10:52):
of your way to make Christmas special because you've pinched
all year long, So that might infinitely do it. You've
done what because you pinched your pennies all year long?
You pinched all year long? Yes, I didn't hear that. Okay,
But gift giving, Josh, what is this? Where did it
come from? Well, like I said, a lot of these
pagan rituals they gave gifts, but uh, the roots almost
(11:12):
all of them did, Strange, Lena, But the roots are
generally traced to Um the Bible and Jesus being born
and the Three Kings, the Magi that traveled to Bethlehem
with their three gifts of gold. Frankinsincein mur right and
actually um Eastern Orthodox Christians tend to celebrate Three Kings
Day in January six, which is the day they think
(11:34):
that the magi arrived with their gifts. Yeah, okay, because
it took them a while. Sure, yeah, yeah, everybody's writing
mules back then, answer forever. Things kind of progressed like
this for a while, and then in eighteen twenty, do
you know what first appeared? Josh stores began placing Christmas
themed ads and newspapers and magazines. Yeah, and for the
first time even before then, though, um Macy's stayed open
(11:57):
I think for the first time until midnight Christmas Eve
in eighteen sixty seven. That was after that. But yeah,
I thought you said, I'm sorry, that's losing my mind here,
But yeah, in eighteen sixty seven, they they stayed open
for those last minute Christmas shoppers. So by the by
eighteen sixty seven, it was already a frenzy. Should we
talk about Boxing Day real quick? Sure? Just cover that
(12:20):
for all the Brits out there, if you're in England, Australia,
Canada or New Zealand. Uh, Christmas does not end on No,
it continues on to the twenty six Boxing Day. So
what is that, Josh? Well, apparently it grew out of
a tradition where servants who had to work on Christmas
(12:41):
all day serving the rich families of New England or
New Zealand, Australia and Great Britain and Canada. Um, they
were given the next day off, the twenty six. They
have their own Christmas, their own servant version of Christmas.
And apparently that was taken over by the rich at
cats as well. Right, so there's a Boxing Day and Christmas,
(13:03):
I take it in those countries. That's the way I
understand it, Chuck, Josh, let's keep going on with this
origin stuff. This stuff is very interesting. Can can we
talk about St Nick for a second? Yeah? So you
know there really was a St. Nick? Right? I do know?
School me. Uh he was actually canonized in the I
(13:24):
think nineteenth century. But he was born in two seventy
CE in Turkey. Uh. He was a Mediterranean dude. Turkish
was he He was Turkish? And I think he died
in three forty, so he was old. Um. He was
worshiped by a group of sailors who formed a cult
(13:46):
around him, the St. Nicholas Cult or the Nicholas cult.
Before he was canonized, a group of sailors, a group
of sailors just idolized this guy, like literally, so these sailors, actually,
I guess, sailed to Turkey and said, we're gonna take
Nick's bones where they're being kept in a shrine in Turkey,
bring his bones out exactly, okay. Or they went in
(14:06):
and got them themselves, one of the two. Uh, and
then they take it back to They take the bones
back to Italy and place him in a shrine. But
when they do so, they displaced this pagan idol known
as the Grandmother capital T capital g. The Grandmother had
a reputation for placing um gifts in children's stockings. St. Nick,
(14:31):
who was who was a real person, was a Christian
martyr I believe takes over this lady's shrine and the
association with gifts and him giving gifts and even gifts
and stockings her. Her reputation goes to him. So it
originally started with a woman huh in ten seven. That's
when the sailors went, we're not done yet here. My
(14:52):
friend Santa Claus has a very long, in circuitous route.
But it's amazing how it all comes together. I'm roasting chestnuts,
by the way, while I'm listening to this. Because the
in the Nicholas Colt gave each other gifts, right um.
And since they gave, they were known for giving gifts.
They were one of the more popular cults around. So
when they spread north, people were like, hey, you're kind
of cool, let's hang out. And um they were converted.
(15:14):
They were a very powerful cult. And when they moved
into Germany or the Germanic areas. Uh, Odin remember you
mentioned him earlier, Long white Beard blew over houses, right. Uh.
Santa Claus as we know it today is the collision
of Odin and St. Nick and the Grandmother. Technically I
had something to do with Germany. I remember hearing that one.
(15:35):
So Santa Claus was um I think a Dutch word
for this conception. But it wasn't until eighteen o nine
that Washington Irving wrote a satire of Dutch culture and said, um.
He used the name Santa Claus, the Dutch name which
introduced the name to the English. A few decades after that,
guy named Thomas Nast, an illustrator, starts drawing his conception.
(15:58):
Santa Claus. Adds the the north pole, the elves, the workshop,
all that stuff, and then finally Santa Claus, who we
know and love today, the jolly fat man with the
red coat and the white trimming. All these things have
accumulated up to this point, and then our image are
iconic image of Santa Claus was thanks to an illustrator
(16:21):
who was contracted by the Coca Cola company in n
and seen, there's Santa Claus and that crazy. That is crazy.
What a cool history? I think, so too and slightly
disappointing a little bit. Where's the magic? There's no magic? No,
al right, Okay, so go ahead, Chuck. I've talked way
too much for now. I guess we should talk about
(16:42):
trees a little bit. Um evergreen trees and garlands. We're
used to decorate symbols of eternal life by everyone from
ancient Chinese to Hebrews and Egyptians and European Pagans even
worship these trees. Yeah, I remember we talked about the
ruids and u sexual proclivities right, So fast forward a
(17:04):
little bit. When Western Germans used fir trees to represent
the Tree of Paradise and plays about Adam and Eve.
They decorated these trees with apples and wafers and stuff,
and that got more and more popular until they were
introduced in North America in the seventeenth century, and then
people started decorating them with mistletoe and holly and stuff
(17:25):
like that, and like you said, they really took off
thanks to Prince Albert and that engraving. Yeah, and in
Christmas lights clearly, which were introduced in eighteen ninety or
in the eighteen nineties. And also, as I understand that
gingerbread men, Yeah, that is based on a Saturnalia tradition
from the ancient Romans where they would eat human shaped biscuits. Yeah,
(17:48):
I think about that's what a ginger modes. Yeah. I
love ginger cookies. Do you like those? Yeah? Are you
with us? Okay, I'm having trouble enunciating during this one.
I know it's strange, So Chuck, I think we've reached
the uh, the big finish, the finale it was Jesus
born on December is that we're gonna talk about and also,
do you want to pop into quick facts. Yeah, So
(18:10):
where's the word Christmas come from? Uh? It comes from Mars.
It comes from an old English word or term Christ's
mass right um or put together Christmas? And do you
know where xmus came from? No, X was the standard
abbreviation of capital X was the standard abbreviation to represent Christ.
(18:32):
So really it's not taking Christ out of Christmas when
you say x mess was an abbreviated version of christs.
Did not know that because a lot of people take
offense when you write xmus. People get really runtled up
about this stuff. They do. They just need to drink
a little egg nog, right, yeah, with rum, right delicious rum. So, Josh,
let's talk about December and was Jesus really born on December.
(18:56):
There is a one in three hundred and sixty five
or one and three hundred and sixty six chance, depending
on whether or not it was leap here, that he
was born on December twenty Yeah, because the Bible doesn't
say that Jesus was born on December twenty one. Thing
I learned from this wonderful article written by our colleague
Sarah Dowdy, who hosts Stuff You missed in history class
(19:16):
um is that the early Church didn't care much about
the Nativity about Jesus being born, that there was no celebration,
didn't pick up, like we said, until the fourth century
a d. Right, right, So yeah, there wasn't a lot
of effort made to really date his birth early on. Yeah. Uh.
There's some clues though that it was probably not on December. Uh.
(19:38):
In the chapter of Luke, they say that the shepherds
are keeping watch over their flock by night day in night. Well, no,
it just says they're flocked by night in the Bible. Whatever.
Don't challenge me on the Bible, buddy, I know my Bible.
But this suggests that it may have been actually in
the spring, during spring lambing, because that is the only
(19:58):
time of year where they you keep watch today and night.
Otherwise it's just during the day, so day and night
in that case, yes, okay, and you're waiting on that.
So this one Bible scholar, his first name was Dionysus,
I can't remember his last name. Uh, he calculated that, Um.
I think he was the one that calculated December twenty Yes, Josh, chronographers.
(20:20):
Here's another theory here that chronographers reckon that the world
was created on the spring equinox, and then four days later,
on March, light was created because the earth was created
then got created light according to the Bible in Genesis,
and since the existence of Jesus UH signaled the beginning
of a new era of Christianity or creation Uh, the
(20:42):
chronographers assumed that jesus conception would have fallen on March
twenty five, which nine months after that would be which
would be his birthday. Yeah, there's a modern Bible scholar
who has gone a little broader trying to hammer out
the extra a year and um by his reckoning, thanks
(21:03):
to Um the presence of Herod King Herod was still alive.
He dated it back and figured out that Jesus is
probably born in four BC. Four BC, so not too
far off as far as the year goes. Not bad.
And again we should remind people that this December twenty
thing was largely an attempt to steal um the winter
(21:26):
solstice from the Pagans to convert them over to Christianity,
So no one knows when Jesus was born. Yeah, and
you know we're not saying all this to Pooh Pooh
Christmas or the fact that Jesus may or may not
have been born on December twenty. None of that matters.
The origin doesn't matter. What matters is is that is
the day that we celebrate it. And uh, all over
the world, they're different traditions. Some people open their gifts
(21:50):
and Christmas Eve, some people do it Christmas Day. Some
people don't do Christmas at all. Some people don't celebrate
it at all. You know, there's other religions out there.
You heard about these, yeah, and and we're gonna cut
over these at some other point. But this one is
about Christmas. Yeah. Um. And if you think about it,
from the true origins of Christmas, all of these disparate
cultures being brought together and molded into this. Sure, you
(22:13):
know it was done surreptitiously and a little sneakily, but
it kind of reminds you, at the very least, it
explains how this whole season it's based around Christmas in
the United States. Um, kind of touches everybody. Sure, So
that's Christmas, Chuck, Do we have any listener mail today? Oh? Yeah?
If you want to know more about Christmas, you can
(22:34):
type the end the handy search bar at how Stuff
Works dot com uh, which then I guess leads us
to listener mayo. Indeed, Josh, we have a couple of
requests which we don't often honor here on the show.
We're gonna this year. We love turning down people's requests
because I feel bad for people that are born right
around Christmas. Do because that just thinks. So, Hey, Josh
(22:54):
Chuck and Jerry Chucker and Jerry, I have a sad
Christmas story followed by a huge favor. My story starts
almost twenty four years ago, the day after Christmas. That
was the day my husband Ian was born. The unfortunate
timing of his birth has caused a ton of bitterness
over the years. It's all the gloom that comes after
the presents are open. We are faced with the fact
(23:16):
that Christmas is gone for a whole year, and then
it's his birthday. What a let down? Uh. He absolutely
hates his birthday as a result, and often refers to
it as the most disappointing day of the year. It's awful. Uh.
He is constantly played by the yearly Christmas Birthday present,
of course, having his birthday gifts wrapped in Christmas paper.
(23:36):
Just last year, he received a birthday gift with a
candy cane tape to the front of it. That's awful. Uh.
And he has never even had a birthday party in
his whole life because no one ever wants to go
out the day after Christmas. He's a complete afterthought. So
here's my huge favor. Uh. He is a huge fan
of your you guys, and I mean huge. He watches
your live video cast every week. He must be the fan.
(23:58):
Then he watches the pobcast and listens to the podcast
every Tuesday and Thursday. And he also does his best
to spread the word of stuff you should know to everyone,
including me. So, by the way, now I'm Cloked's what
she said. So I'm hoping you could make this the
best birthday ever. From Ashley the birthday Fairy. Ashley, we're
(24:19):
gonna give your husband a huge happy birthday here, Happy birthday,
Happy birthday. And we're sorry you were born on the
be glad you were born at all. That's what I say.
But I'm sorry, dude, that stinks. And we're sending you
like a T shirt or something. And she wanted to
sign T shirt but with a candy cane tape to it. Yeah,
we should totally do s Ian. You've got something coming
(24:40):
your way, but it's not gonna be there by, But
a happy birthday anyway, Ian, Josh, we have another one. Okay,
this from Karen. I just wanted to ask for a
huge favor. My partner, Tristan is a big fan of
your show. In fact, thanks to you guys, he now
has opinions on a range of subjects and it drives
me crazy. He turns thirty on Christmas Eve, and that
is today, if I'm not mistaken, and I'm trying to
(25:02):
make it a little special by surprising him with thirty gifts,
and it would freak him out if he was listening
to your podcast and you wish him a happy birthday?
Could you help me out? That would be awesome. So, Tristan,
today actually is your birthday. Happy birthday, Happy birthday, Tristan.
Are you freaked out thirty gifts? Yeah? So hopefully you're
(25:24):
freaked out there in Australia, Tristan, Chris, Tristan, we're talking
about you right now, Tristan. Yeah. Uh. And Josh, beyond that,
do you want to say a few words here? I do. Actually,
I want to wish my darling five ft one and
a half inch half okanow and girlfriend you me happy
birthday too. Her birthday is December, so she's one of
(25:48):
those poor afflicted people born around Christmas time. Happy birthday, shortcake, Yeah,
happy birthday. You mean you call a shortcake? I call
a sugar little sweet. Yeah. So John here, we are
close to the end of the year, and we'll go
ahead and say our salutations here on Christmas Eve to
everyone raise a toast of eggnog. Stuff you should know, Army.
(26:10):
We're proud of you, guys. We're proud of each other. Jerry,
we had a great year. It's been awesome. Great response
has been a really big year. Yeah, it's just been awesome,
and we feel great about it. And we feel awesome
about the stuff. You should known. Army coming together and
being so involved and donating tens of thousands of dollars,
(26:30):
that's good stuff. As Josh says on the Keyva thing,
what the finest people that have never met. That's close.
That's what I feel like we are. Yeah. Well, thanks
to all of you out there in s Y s
k Land. We hope that your sugar plum dreams are
all fulfilled, that you're all tucked in tight in your
warm beds with somebody you love and who loves you.
(26:53):
And we'll see in after two more episodes, and we
will see to it that we keep you as informed
and entertained in as we did in two thousand nine.
We ain't going nowhere exactly. Um, Happy holidays? Is that
it is that we're going to end this? Is that heartfelt? Enough? Yep? Okay?
(27:23):
For more on this and thousands of other topics, is
it how stuff works dot Com? Want more how stuff works?
Check out our blogs on the house. Stuff works dot
com home page. Brought to you by the reinvented two
thousand twelve Camray. It's ready, are you
Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.
It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff you should know
from house Stuff Works dot com? Ho ho ho, and
welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark with me as
(00:20):
always is Charles W. Shuck. I heart Christmas time, Briant,
Yours is way better than mine. Mine. Sounded like a
an Irish priest leprin. Yeah, terrible, going great, Yeah, this
should be coming out right at Christmas. Yeah, we're gonna
(00:41):
We're gonna plan for that. So if it is, it's
all of you listening out there in podcast land. We
hope you're having a great holiday season. Yeah, yeah, and
safe and well and with family and and uh we
wish you all a merry Christmas and Hanukah and Kwanza
and whatever each used to celebrate ted what's that? I
(01:03):
think that's a Buddhist New Year. Um, there's all sorts
of stuff going on this time of year. Yeah, big time. Yeah,
but we chose to talk about Christmas. Chuck was brought Baptist,
I was raised Catholic. It's what we know. And it's
a pretty interesting story too. And if you're Jewish and
you hate Christmas. You're gonna stick around because you're gonna
love this one, right, Yeah, and you know what, next year,
(01:24):
we will do one on Hanakah. Okay, deal, Yeah, I
actually know a significant amount about Hankka. Well, let's do
it next year, and then a book it and we'll
eventually do Quansa too. Yeah, we'll do that in eleven maybe,
or maybe we'll do like a holiday extravaganza. Buddy. If
if we're still around in two thousand eleven, then we're
either doing something right or something wrong. Haven't decided which. Okay,
(01:45):
all right, Josh Chromas, is that what we're calling it? Christmas? Okay? So, Chuck,
have you ever engaged in um Christmas? Yes, Josh, what's
a year? I've engaged in thirty eight of them? Wow?
That pretty nice, Thank you? That was my int alright,
let's talk about this man. It's so ubiquitous. There's um
(02:06):
people who are usually drunk, dressed up as Santa Claus,
ringing bells asking for donations. There's little kids like screeching
in the middle of aisles and toy stores. There are
um minds like elbowing one another in the face. To
get to that last line, and then there's people who
(02:27):
are um punching Walmart greeters in the stomach for saying
Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas. It's the most contentious
time of the year. Do you know where I am.
I'm at home and I am shopping online. Dude, it
is the way to go. Never again. And you know
what we got to Ohio. I just had the gifts
ship straight to my in law's house. Very smart, no must,
no fuss. Yeah, it's as long as you order early
(02:49):
enough to make sure you're not spending the last week
biting your nails when they arrive in time. I can
tell you, um by experience, that people are very forgiving
if their gifts aren't there. All you do was you
get a little card, you right it inside like you're
getting this, or you print out a picture of it.
It's like it's coming, I promise, and then a coupon
for a free BackRub. I did do coupons once. One year.
(03:12):
I was so broken. I had a friend take a
picture of me standing there with my pockets turned out,
me going like it's like, no, it wasn't last year.
It was like five years ago. And um that was that,
Like everybody kept it. No one turned it in. They
just like they're sure tickets so much. I made birdhouses
one year when I was broken. They were good to sure,
they're nice alright. So let's talk about Christis How do this?
(03:35):
How did this jam get started? Well, Josh, the roots
of Christmas are varied, to say the least. You cannot
riotously very You cannot point to one single thing and
say Christmas was born out of this Jesus's birthday on December.
You can't even point to the aspects of Christmas and
say that each one was born out of this. You can't. Basically,
(03:57):
Christmas is a bunch of different groups that are from
antiquity brought together, right, Yeah. Like, Uh. Most of these
early um versions of Christmas, I guess, if you even
want to call it that were festivals that marked the
winter solstice in Europe, mainly Uh and um Rome. True
(04:19):
Rome had a big one called Saturnalia German pagans. They
honored Odin, who was a god who flew over settlements
at night, blessing some houses and cursing others. Sounds like
coal and switches or treats to me. So that was
a pagan god. Yeah, yeah, Germanic um and then also
(04:43):
you have the Druids who like to contribute um things
like garland and holly to the whole mix. Kissing under
the mistletoe actually is apparently a um euphemism for some
of the sexual practices that went on to the Druidic
Winter Solstice festivals. People probably didn't think they were going
to hear those words in the Christmas podcast. Yeah it's
(05:06):
true though, Oh yeah, um, Christmas was rife with sexuality
and one could even say perversion and and just crazy
parties and in some cases, are you're talking about Rome? That? Yeah,
the Druids were big into it too, apparently the Celts right,
But in Rome they celebrated the pretty Rockets festival called
the Saturnalia from December seventeen. Is that now how you
(05:29):
pronounce it? Okay? I thought you're gonna correct me. And
that honors Saturn, the god of agriculture. And they had
a big carnival and they feasted and gambled and gave
gifts and corrals and got drunk wasted for days. This
is Rome, Yeah, one party like they did. They also
apparently love to stuff um Jews with food until they
(05:51):
were like so full that they could barely move and
then make them raise each other naked through the streets
for everyone else's enjoyment. So there's Christmas. Um, these are
the roots of it. And then, of course, um, you
have Christianity, which effectively took it over in the fourth
century a D. Yeah, they say, we need our own
holiday to rival all these winter solstice shenanigans, right the
(06:13):
fourth the fourth century a D. Really and we are
ce depending on who you are, Um, really kind of
change things. This is when Christianity stepped it up a bit.
That's been saying Augustine was supposedly issuing all these proclamations. Um. Basically,
the Church just made some moves and it it worked.
And they chose December, the day of the Feast of
(06:33):
the Nativity is what it was originally called. And since
they said, hey, pagans, you come over to our religion,
we've got something over here. Uh. It celebrates the birth
of our savior and all that. But you can still
throw down. We're just gonna this is gonna be the
last day. Much like um, fat to ash Wednesday, right
right right fat to Marty gral leads up to ash
(06:54):
Wednesday and the party stops on ash Wednesday, but they
go crazy ahead of time, very much the same thing.
And it can any like this for many many centuries. Yeah,
and and initially it wasn't um. It still wasn't the
big daddy, I mean, Eastern Good Friday still ruled in
the feast, and the Nativity was kind of the lesser
of the three. And um, the Puritans had some problems
(07:15):
with this though they did pretty much any group that
was very doer about um about religion. And we're Christians,
uh outlawed or banned Christmas festivities because yeah, he did
when he took Christmas in and the Puritans in New
England outlawed it. Uh what from sixteen fifty nine to
(07:38):
sixteen eighty one in Boston, no Christmas none And actually
Cromwell um had soldiers patrolling the streets to make sure
there was no revelry whatsoever. And we're told to arrest
anybody they found celebrating Christmas when he outlawed it, um.
And still today Jehovah's witnesses, Christians Christian sect um don't
(07:59):
sell lebrate Christmas because they clearly see it as or
they see it as a clearly pagan holiday. And that
all of these roots have have all these pagan roots
have come together and just got a Christian stamp of approval.
But it ain't. It's really just pagan, right. Yeah. So, uh,
let's move forward a little bit in our in our
time machine to the eighteenth and nineteenth century. This is
(08:20):
when things start to calm down a little bit and
it becomes a little bit more like the Christmas we
know and love, including eighteen forty six when Queen Victoria's
German husband Albert, Prince Albert, he introduced a Christmas tree
to the castle and they essentially got their picture made
in front of it. It was an engraving at the time.
(08:41):
Of course they had to stand there for four weeks. Yeah,
but it was their children in them in front of
the tree, and that's kind of may have been the
first Christmas card like we do today. That's nice. You
send Christmas cards. No, I don't even know. I'm such
a slacker. I've never sent Christmas cards. Yeah, so don't
be offended. Friends who listened. None of my friends listen
to this. But when I don't see Christmas cards, I
(09:02):
just don't do it. I haven't done it. I'll do
that one day. Um, okay, So Chuck, let's talk about
gift giving. Okay. In two thousand seven, Consumer Reports said
that they issued an article in November of two seven,
I said twelve million Americans were still paying off Christmas
from the year prior. Just a year later, twelve million
(09:23):
Americans were still making payments on their credit card gifts.
So in addition to hearing is that Santas slagh and
jingle bells, I hear Josh flying overhead? I think you're hallucinating,
am I. I don't hear anything. In addition to that,
do you know what I hear is the sound of
credit card machines being well, yeah that's old, but yeah,
the swipe of the credit cards over a number of things.
(09:45):
Thank you. That's what I hear. It is decidedly commercial
now and one of the reasons why people are still
paying it off is, um, we spend an ass load
of money on Christmas presents and decorations, eight billion dollars
on lights alone. Nuts. Listen to this dude in the
National Retail Federation, which likes to come out with their
annual forecast of how much Americans are going to spend
(10:07):
on holiday gifts and just anything that has to do
with the holidays. They forecasted a hundred and seventy three
billion in nineteen ninety eight. Wow, this is this is
the height of the dot com bubble and everybody was
rich back then. Everybody You weren't rich either, should uh?
Two thousand nine, this year, the National Retail Federation projects
(10:31):
that we will spend four hundred and thirty seven point
six billion dollars in a recession. That's not Yeah, I
don't drop that much on Christmas. We're gonna spend half
a trillion dollars on Christmas in a recession. That's a
bad year. I know. And you know what, I think.
They've said that during recessions even sometimes you go out
(10:52):
of your way to make Christmas special because you've pinched
all year long, So that might infinitely do it. You've
done what because you pinched your pennies all year long?
You pinched all year long? Yes, I didn't hear that. Okay,
But gift giving, Josh, what is this? Where did it
come from? Well, like I said, a lot of these
pagan rituals they gave gifts, but uh, the roots almost
(11:12):
all of them did, Strange, Lena, But the roots are
generally traced to Um the Bible and Jesus being born
and the Three Kings, the Magi that traveled to Bethlehem
with their three gifts of gold. Frankinsincein mur right and
actually um Eastern Orthodox Christians tend to celebrate Three Kings
Day in January six, which is the day they think
(11:34):
that the magi arrived with their gifts. Yeah, okay, because
it took them a while. Sure, yeah, yeah, everybody's writing
mules back then, answer forever. Things kind of progressed like
this for a while, and then in eighteen twenty, do
you know what first appeared? Josh stores began placing Christmas
themed ads and newspapers and magazines. Yeah, and for the
first time even before then, though, um Macy's stayed open
(11:57):
I think for the first time until midnight Christmas Eve
in eighteen sixty seven. That was after that. But yeah,
I thought you said, I'm sorry, that's losing my mind here,
But yeah, in eighteen sixty seven, they they stayed open
for those last minute Christmas shoppers. So by the by
eighteen sixty seven, it was already a frenzy. Should we
talk about Boxing Day real quick? Sure? Just cover that
(12:20):
for all the Brits out there, if you're in England, Australia,
Canada or New Zealand. Uh, Christmas does not end on No,
it continues on to the twenty six Boxing Day. So
what is that, Josh? Well, apparently it grew out of
a tradition where servants who had to work on Christmas
(12:41):
all day serving the rich families of New England or
New Zealand, Australia and Great Britain and Canada. Um, they
were given the next day off, the twenty six. They
have their own Christmas, their own servant version of Christmas.
And apparently that was taken over by the rich at
cats as well. Right, so there's a Boxing Day and Christmas,
(13:03):
I take it in those countries. That's the way I
understand it, Chuck, Josh, let's keep going on with this
origin stuff. This stuff is very interesting. Can can we
talk about St Nick for a second? Yeah? So you
know there really was a St. Nick? Right? I do know?
School me. Uh he was actually canonized in the I
(13:24):
think nineteenth century. But he was born in two seventy
CE in Turkey. Uh. He was a Mediterranean dude. Turkish
was he He was Turkish? And I think he died
in three forty, so he was old. Um. He was
worshiped by a group of sailors who formed a cult
(13:46):
around him, the St. Nicholas Cult or the Nicholas cult.
Before he was canonized, a group of sailors, a group
of sailors just idolized this guy, like literally, so these sailors, actually,
I guess, sailed to Turkey and said, we're gonna take
Nick's bones where they're being kept in a shrine in Turkey,
bring his bones out exactly, okay. Or they went in
(14:06):
and got them themselves, one of the two. Uh, and
then they take it back to They take the bones
back to Italy and place him in a shrine. But
when they do so, they displaced this pagan idol known
as the Grandmother capital T capital g. The Grandmother had
a reputation for placing um gifts in children's stockings. St. Nick,
(14:31):
who was who was a real person, was a Christian
martyr I believe takes over this lady's shrine and the
association with gifts and him giving gifts and even gifts
and stockings her. Her reputation goes to him. So it
originally started with a woman huh in ten seven. That's
when the sailors went, we're not done yet here. My
(14:52):
friend Santa Claus has a very long, in circuitous route.
But it's amazing how it all comes together. I'm roasting chestnuts,
by the way, while I'm listening to this. Because the
in the Nicholas Colt gave each other gifts, right um.
And since they gave, they were known for giving gifts.
They were one of the more popular cults around. So
when they spread north, people were like, hey, you're kind
of cool, let's hang out. And um they were converted.
(15:14):
They were a very powerful cult. And when they moved
into Germany or the Germanic areas. Uh, Odin remember you
mentioned him earlier, Long white Beard blew over houses, right. Uh.
Santa Claus as we know it today is the collision
of Odin and St. Nick and the Grandmother. Technically I
had something to do with Germany. I remember hearing that one.
(15:35):
So Santa Claus was um I think a Dutch word
for this conception. But it wasn't until eighteen o nine
that Washington Irving wrote a satire of Dutch culture and said, um.
He used the name Santa Claus, the Dutch name which
introduced the name to the English. A few decades after that,
guy named Thomas Nast, an illustrator, starts drawing his conception.
(15:58):
Santa Claus. Adds the the north pole, the elves, the workshop,
all that stuff, and then finally Santa Claus, who we
know and love today, the jolly fat man with the
red coat and the white trimming. All these things have
accumulated up to this point, and then our image are
iconic image of Santa Claus was thanks to an illustrator
(16:21):
who was contracted by the Coca Cola company in n
and seen, there's Santa Claus and that crazy. That is crazy.
What a cool history? I think, so too and slightly
disappointing a little bit. Where's the magic? There's no magic? No,
al right, Okay, so go ahead, Chuck. I've talked way
too much for now. I guess we should talk about
(16:42):
trees a little bit. Um evergreen trees and garlands. We're
used to decorate symbols of eternal life by everyone from
ancient Chinese to Hebrews and Egyptians and European Pagans even
worship these trees. Yeah, I remember we talked about the
ruids and u sexual proclivities right, So fast forward a
(17:04):
little bit. When Western Germans used fir trees to represent
the Tree of Paradise and plays about Adam and Eve.
They decorated these trees with apples and wafers and stuff,
and that got more and more popular until they were
introduced in North America in the seventeenth century, and then
people started decorating them with mistletoe and holly and stuff
(17:25):
like that, and like you said, they really took off
thanks to Prince Albert and that engraving. Yeah, and in
Christmas lights clearly, which were introduced in eighteen ninety or
in the eighteen nineties. And also, as I understand that
gingerbread men, Yeah, that is based on a Saturnalia tradition
from the ancient Romans where they would eat human shaped biscuits. Yeah,
(17:48):
I think about that's what a ginger modes. Yeah. I
love ginger cookies. Do you like those? Yeah? Are you
with us? Okay, I'm having trouble enunciating during this one.
I know it's strange, So Chuck, I think we've reached
the uh, the big finish, the finale it was Jesus
born on December is that we're gonna talk about and also,
do you want to pop into quick facts. Yeah, So
(18:10):
where's the word Christmas come from? Uh? It comes from Mars.
It comes from an old English word or term Christ's
mass right um or put together Christmas? And do you
know where xmus came from? No, X was the standard
abbreviation of capital X was the standard abbreviation to represent Christ.
(18:32):
So really it's not taking Christ out of Christmas when
you say x mess was an abbreviated version of christs.
Did not know that because a lot of people take
offense when you write xmus. People get really runtled up
about this stuff. They do. They just need to drink
a little egg nog, right, yeah, with rum, right delicious rum. So, Josh,
let's talk about December and was Jesus really born on December.
(18:56):
There is a one in three hundred and sixty five
or one and three hundred and sixty six chance, depending
on whether or not it was leap here, that he
was born on December twenty Yeah, because the Bible doesn't
say that Jesus was born on December twenty one. Thing
I learned from this wonderful article written by our colleague
Sarah Dowdy, who hosts Stuff You missed in history class
(19:16):
um is that the early Church didn't care much about
the Nativity about Jesus being born, that there was no celebration,
didn't pick up, like we said, until the fourth century
a d. Right, right, So yeah, there wasn't a lot
of effort made to really date his birth early on. Yeah. Uh.
There's some clues though that it was probably not on December. Uh.
(19:38):
In the chapter of Luke, they say that the shepherds
are keeping watch over their flock by night day in night. Well, no,
it just says they're flocked by night in the Bible. Whatever.
Don't challenge me on the Bible, buddy, I know my Bible.
But this suggests that it may have been actually in
the spring, during spring lambing, because that is the only
(19:58):
time of year where they you keep watch today and night.
Otherwise it's just during the day, so day and night
in that case, yes, okay, and you're waiting on that.
So this one Bible scholar, his first name was Dionysus,
I can't remember his last name. Uh, he calculated that, Um.
I think he was the one that calculated December twenty Yes, Josh, chronographers.
(20:20):
Here's another theory here that chronographers reckon that the world
was created on the spring equinox, and then four days later,
on March, light was created because the earth was created
then got created light according to the Bible in Genesis,
and since the existence of Jesus UH signaled the beginning
of a new era of Christianity or creation Uh, the
(20:42):
chronographers assumed that jesus conception would have fallen on March
twenty five, which nine months after that would be which
would be his birthday. Yeah, there's a modern Bible scholar
who has gone a little broader trying to hammer out
the extra a year and um by his reckoning, thanks
(21:03):
to Um the presence of Herod King Herod was still alive.
He dated it back and figured out that Jesus is
probably born in four BC. Four BC, so not too
far off as far as the year goes. Not bad.
And again we should remind people that this December twenty
thing was largely an attempt to steal um the winter
(21:26):
solstice from the Pagans to convert them over to Christianity,
So no one knows when Jesus was born. Yeah, and
you know we're not saying all this to Pooh Pooh
Christmas or the fact that Jesus may or may not
have been born on December twenty. None of that matters.
The origin doesn't matter. What matters is is that is
the day that we celebrate it. And uh, all over
the world, they're different traditions. Some people open their gifts
(21:50):
and Christmas Eve, some people do it Christmas Day. Some
people don't do Christmas at all. Some people don't celebrate
it at all. You know, there's other religions out there.
You heard about these, yeah, and and we're gonna cut
over these at some other point. But this one is
about Christmas. Yeah. Um. And if you think about it,
from the true origins of Christmas, all of these disparate
cultures being brought together and molded into this. Sure, you
(22:13):
know it was done surreptitiously and a little sneakily, but
it kind of reminds you, at the very least, it
explains how this whole season it's based around Christmas in
the United States. Um, kind of touches everybody. Sure, So
that's Christmas, Chuck, Do we have any listener mail today? Oh? Yeah?
If you want to know more about Christmas, you can
(22:34):
type the end the handy search bar at how Stuff
Works dot com uh, which then I guess leads us
to listener mayo. Indeed, Josh, we have a couple of
requests which we don't often honor here on the show.
We're gonna this year. We love turning down people's requests
because I feel bad for people that are born right
around Christmas. Do because that just thinks. So, Hey, Josh
(22:54):
Chuck and Jerry Chucker and Jerry, I have a sad
Christmas story followed by a huge favor. My story starts
almost twenty four years ago, the day after Christmas. That
was the day my husband Ian was born. The unfortunate
timing of his birth has caused a ton of bitterness
over the years. It's all the gloom that comes after
the presents are open. We are faced with the fact
(23:16):
that Christmas is gone for a whole year, and then
it's his birthday. What a let down? Uh. He absolutely
hates his birthday as a result, and often refers to
it as the most disappointing day of the year. It's awful. Uh.
He is constantly played by the yearly Christmas Birthday present,
of course, having his birthday gifts wrapped in Christmas paper.
(23:36):
Just last year, he received a birthday gift with a
candy cane tape to the front of it. That's awful. Uh.
And he has never even had a birthday party in
his whole life because no one ever wants to go
out the day after Christmas. He's a complete afterthought. So
here's my huge favor. Uh. He is a huge fan
of your you guys, and I mean huge. He watches
your live video cast every week. He must be the fan.
(23:58):
Then he watches the pobcast and listens to the podcast
every Tuesday and Thursday. And he also does his best
to spread the word of stuff you should know to everyone,
including me. So, by the way, now I'm Cloked's what
she said. So I'm hoping you could make this the
best birthday ever. From Ashley the birthday Fairy. Ashley, we're
(24:19):
gonna give your husband a huge happy birthday here, Happy birthday,
Happy birthday. And we're sorry you were born on the
be glad you were born at all. That's what I say.
But I'm sorry, dude, that stinks. And we're sending you
like a T shirt or something. And she wanted to
sign T shirt but with a candy cane tape to it. Yeah,
we should totally do s Ian. You've got something coming
(24:40):
your way, but it's not gonna be there by, But
a happy birthday anyway, Ian, Josh, we have another one. Okay,
this from Karen. I just wanted to ask for a
huge favor. My partner, Tristan is a big fan of
your show. In fact, thanks to you guys, he now
has opinions on a range of subjects and it drives
me crazy. He turns thirty on Christmas Eve, and that
is today, if I'm not mistaken, and I'm trying to
(25:02):
make it a little special by surprising him with thirty gifts,
and it would freak him out if he was listening
to your podcast and you wish him a happy birthday?
Could you help me out? That would be awesome. So, Tristan,
today actually is your birthday. Happy birthday, Happy birthday, Tristan.
Are you freaked out thirty gifts? Yeah? So hopefully you're
(25:24):
freaked out there in Australia, Tristan, Chris, Tristan, we're talking
about you right now, Tristan. Yeah. Uh. And Josh, beyond that,
do you want to say a few words here? I do. Actually,
I want to wish my darling five ft one and
a half inch half okanow and girlfriend you me happy
birthday too. Her birthday is December, so she's one of
(25:48):
those poor afflicted people born around Christmas time. Happy birthday, shortcake, Yeah,
happy birthday. You mean you call a shortcake? I call
a sugar little sweet. Yeah. So John here, we are
close to the end of the year, and we'll go
ahead and say our salutations here on Christmas Eve to
everyone raise a toast of eggnog. Stuff you should know, Army.
(26:10):
We're proud of you, guys. We're proud of each other. Jerry,
we had a great year. It's been awesome. Great response
has been a really big year. Yeah, it's just been awesome,
and we feel great about it. And we feel awesome
about the stuff. You should known. Army coming together and
being so involved and donating tens of thousands of dollars,
(26:30):
that's good stuff. As Josh says on the Keyva thing,
what the finest people that have never met. That's close.
That's what I feel like we are. Yeah. Well, thanks
to all of you out there in s Y s
k Land. We hope that your sugar plum dreams are
all fulfilled, that you're all tucked in tight in your
warm beds with somebody you love and who loves you.
(26:53):
And we'll see in after two more episodes, and we
will see to it that we keep you as informed
and entertained in as we did in two thousand nine.
We ain't going nowhere exactly. Um, Happy holidays? Is that
it is that we're going to end this? Is that heartfelt? Enough? Yep? Okay?
(27:23):
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