July 21, 2015 • 38 mins
In some states, it is not only your right but your duty to arrest someone you see committing a crime. Learn all about why you should basically never do that in this episode.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to you stuff you should know from house stuff
Works dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm
Josh Clark, There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant. You're under arrest.
I didn't do anything. Yeah, I saw it with my
own two eyes. You're coming with me. You didn't see
(00:22):
jack ant scene? Is that anthene or anthyne? How many
times you get to say that? Yeah? So that was
my rendition of how the citizens arrests could go. We've
been asked to do this for a while. Yeah, we
finally did. Yeah, we're doing it now. Did you know
that on June nine a man in Australia died while
(00:42):
being citizens arrested? Uh? No, he was being detained by
like five or six guys and held down for eight
minutes and zip tied and he died. You know, I
feel like we talked about once when um, some people
said don a guy to detain him, that we did
in London or something and he died. It happens, it
(01:05):
does have. I totally remember that. Yeah. It was guy's
busted in on a diamond shop. One got away, one
got sat on until he died. Yes, that was scary,
even though people were going to get off of me.
He's dying so um that that reveals one of the many, many,
many things that can go wrong during a citizen's arrest,
which is why we wanted to say at the top
(01:25):
of this and probably well many times, you should not
perform citizens arrest, even though it is conceivably your right
if you're here in America to do so, um and
all over the world you not necessarily mean almost every
single country has a citizen's arrest law, even ones that
are not touched by the long arm of the British Empire,
(01:48):
all over the place. I got the impression that was
basically an English common law concept. Maybe it's been co
opted then because I saw like Turkey, Hong Kong, all
over the world. Okay, wherever you are, you probably should
not try to performance since the arrest. There's all sorts
of other stuff you can do, especially in the day
(02:08):
of like a smartphone call the cops, take video, take video,
take pictures. Um. The one the one time when a
lot of citizens arrest laws do say you probably should
do something is when you see somebody being hurt, injured,
or their their life is in danger. For the most part, though,
(02:30):
especially if no one is being hurt. You should not
perform as citizens arrest. That's your advice to the general public. Yes,
do you not agree? I don't know. It depends. I
think it's situational, Okay, depends on who they are, who
you are, and what's going down. Well, the problem is
a lot of people say citizens arrest, you do that
(02:52):
for like if somebody if it won't turn down their
their stereo at night, stuff like that easily turns into
like a fight. Yeah, that's not his address. That you
should just have a little dummy, fine book and if
it makes you feel better to write somebody a citation,
do it. And as a result, a lot of states,
I think recognize the fact that if you just say yeah,
(03:13):
you can do citizens the rest for anything, it will
start out as somebody was trying to arrestue for playing
your stereo too loud, too late, and then turn into
a fight and then somebody dies that kind of thing.
So a lot of case, a lot of states say
you it has to be a felony. And there's all
sorts of other stipulations in details, But the whole thing,
like I said, Chuck, is rooted at least in the
(03:35):
United States and English common law, specifically the posse komitatas. Yeah,
dating back to medieval England. That was a time when, uh,
they needed that and the sheriff of the land counted
on citizens because they didn't have a police force of
hundreds of dudes, uh, and they needed citizens to help
(03:56):
them out. Basically, yeah, and possecomitatis is Latin for force
of the county or force of the community. And it
basically in English common law was the ability of the
sheriff to say, you, fifteen year old boy, and up,
you're able bodied. I need help arresting this guy. You
were obligated to help me to sit on him, to
(04:17):
sit on him, but get off and when I tell
you to. Yeah. And in the United States it was
I think, in which is not that long ago. I
mean just the turn of the nineteen hundreds, Philadelphia, big city,
only had fifteen detectives, so they counted on people to
help out. Um In the infamous mass murderer H. H.
(04:40):
Holmes was tracked and caught by a private citizen. Oh
was that right? Yeah, he was a private detective. But
it's not a cop, okay, because I was trying to
find like famous, have there ever been any like noteworthy
citizens arrest. That's pretty noteworthy. That was the only one
I could find, h Holmes. But it's because first serial
killer was brought down by citizens arrest. It was tough
(05:02):
to Uh, it's it's tough to get good information on
this though, because, as you'll see, the every state has
their own law, and within states, each municipality has different
versions of the law, right, so it's all over the place.
The rule of film that I ran across in researching
this is if the site or the text from a
site seemed huffy and indignant and just fed up, then
(05:25):
you should really take that stuff with a grain AsSalt. Yeah.
And I also found a lot of cases to these
days where it's become kind of a tool for activism,
where somebody like an environmentalist will try to arrest the
mayor in front of everyone at a town meeting. There's
a site called arrest Blair dot org, I believe, and
the it's a site dedicated to placing Tony Blair, the
(05:48):
Prime Minister, under arrest for war crimes, and like five
or six people have done it so far, and it's
all just totally symbolic. Yeah, exactly. But and there's a
lot of like steps that they suggest you follow and like,
don't make it seem like you're trying to carry out
any violent act or anything like that. It's all symbolic. Yeah,
but if you could get Tony Blair to come with
(06:09):
you to to I don't know, um jail. Sure, they're like,
go for it, but he's not going to know. I've
also seen people try to arrest like oil company executives
and stuff like that. Again just a statement. Uh, so
let's talk about let's break it down into a federal
law and state law. Um, federal law and you this
(06:31):
is a blog post of yours, right, and this where
this came from. How about that? How about it? It's
our first one based on a blog post which is
sort of just a version of an article no we did.
Um oh yeah, that's right. Good point. So if you're
talking federal law, um, it has to be interpreted as such.
(06:53):
It's not. It doesn't clearly say in federal law like
you can do this. No, there's some real fancy footwork
in interpreting this. And there's a group called um oh
what are they called time fighters? Yeah? I looked when
I wrote this blog post originally, Um, there's no website
(07:13):
for crime fighters. They have a newsletter should say a lot,
but there's this long document and you can find it
on the post for this episode on our website that
has like I mean, just every detail you could possibly
think of. Some of it good advice, some of it
contradictory advice, some advice not good, like for example, um,
(07:35):
there's uh sentences like when in doubt, check first, Like
if if you're not sure if a crime that you're
arresting somebody for is a misdemeanor or felony, check first.
So apparently when in doubt you should have already checked
beforehand is their guy or zip ties make handy handcuffs.
(07:56):
You should not be using handcuffs. Cops even use zip
ties cops do. Here's a there's a this is a
theme we're gonna keep running into chuck cops who are
sworn law enforcement officers. That's their career. And there's plenty
of cops that are like bad apples that I'm not
talking about that at this point. What I'm saying is
(08:18):
is if you're a citizens arrest person and you're carrying
around zip ties to use his handcuffs, you are going
to get in trouble because the same the same protections
that are afforded to cops who use zip ties are
not afforded to you necessarily. No, it's a different deal.
So if you look at a Title eight teen, Section
two two three six UM, when talking federal law, we
(08:43):
should probably just read this because the wording is important. Whoever,
being an officer, agent, or employee of the the United States
or any department of agency thereof, engaged in the enforcement
of any law of the United States, searches any private
dwelling used and occupied as such dwelling without a warrant
directing such search, or maliciously and without reasonable cause searches
(09:04):
any other building or property without a search warrant. Shall
be fined under this Title for a first offense, and
for a subsequent offense, shall be fined under this title,
and in prison not more than one year or both. Right. So, basically,
what's that that's saying is the the federal government is
aware that there's bad apples who are sworn officers of
the law UM, and they anybody who conducts a search
(09:27):
without a warrant or without probable cause is in trouble. Yes,
here's the thing. They're like there's a couple of exceptions,
and we want to make plain right. And they say
that this section shall not apply to any person, which
as huge as we'll see in a second, A serving
a warrant of arrest be arresting or attempting to arrest
(09:49):
a person committing or attempting to commit an offense in
his presence, or who is committed or is suspected on
reasonable grounds of having committed a felony, or making a
search at the request or invitation or with the consent
of the occupant of the premises. So they're saying, if
you're a law enforcement officer, you don't have to have
a warrant if one of those three A, B or
(10:12):
C is fulfilled. But the thing that crime stoppers UM,
crime fighters, The thing that crime fighters UH says is well, wait,
they switch language. The first part has to do with
the law enforcement officer. In the second part they use
the word person. Yeah, any person and any person as
a citizen. Right, that's right. So technically, UM, under federal law,
(10:36):
if you interpret it this way, you have the right
to UM take to commit I guess, commit to carry
out a citizens or ask if you if there is
a felony, right, so yeah, or if you could get
your hand on a warrant, which you can't unless you're
like a bounty hunter or a private detective, which, by
the way, bounty hunters, UM February Okay, if you want
(10:58):
to go listen to that one. Yep, it's a good one. Yeah,
we did that one in bail. Right, Bail and bounty
hunters is like a duel, that's right. Uh. And then
since most people, most citizens can't get their hands on
a warrant, that part b kicks in where if you
see somebody committing a felony, um, you're you can arrest them,
(11:18):
that's right. So that's what crime fighters and a lot
of other people say. This is federal justification for citizens arrest.
That's right. But the states, the states love citizens arrest, yes,
and we'll talk about those states laws right after this. So, Josh,
(11:52):
you mentioned that states love citizens arrest, love them. Not
exactly the case, but they definitely opened ings up quite
a bit. Uh. Depending on what state and what municipality
you live in. UM, you may be able to perform
citizens arrests on misdemeanors that you actually witness, felonies you
(12:13):
don't even witness, um, anything that could cause a breach
of peace, whether you witness it or not. And this
all depends on the state and or in the case
of Kentucky, you are called upon to do so. So
there's they say you must do so. Right, there's a
case in the thirties that has been interpreted in Kentucky
(12:37):
to mean that you if you see a crime in action,
like you have to do something. Yeah, the quote is
you must take affirmative steps, is what it says in
the law. I don't think you know, obviously they're not
going to charge someone with not doing something, although you
never know, but they do charge you in Kentucky with like, hey,
this is your obligation and going to do something. I mean,
(12:59):
you've seen the last episode of Seinfeld. It's basically the
same thing. They saw a man being harassed on the
street and laughed instead of helping him, and so they
were prosecuted under the Good Samaritan law. That's right. So
instead of see something, say something, it's see something, sit
on them. It's exactly right, that's the law. So, um,
that's Kentucky. There are other states that say you have
(13:21):
to see a felony in progress to make a citizen's arrest, right, um.
And then other states are saying you better know what
you're talking about. A few arrest isism because if a
conviction doesn't happen, that guy can turn around and sue you.
You can be charged with all sorts of things. Um,
(13:42):
so you better you better get that conviction, Like, you
better know what you're talking about. It better be a
cut and dried case if you're gonna make a citizen's arrest. Yeah.
And then there are all manner of um rules and
regulations depending on your state, like um. For instance, in Utah,
they will let you arrest somebody for a misdemeanor or felony,
but you're not allowed to use deadly force. Other states
(14:05):
say you can use what they call reasonable force, but
they you know, that's highly subjective and I guess would
be determined in a court. Uh. Some states say you
should not are not allowed to question or search your
The only thing you can do is detain them. And
this is in different countries too. They have similar laws
I looked at, like Canada and England and Finland and Norway.
(14:27):
I mean, it's all over the place and they're all
kind of similar. Um. Although in some states they will
let you see as a weapon or evidence if it
is in plain view, or if you're under an immediate threat,
like you can take a gun from a guy um
or sees if you know the key low cocaine spills
out onto the street, you can like brush that aside
(14:47):
and say, dear, would you put that in the car
until the cops get here. That'd be funny if you
don't realize that you're in a state where you're not
allowed to take a gun. So you take a guy's
gun and he's like, he's citizens arrest you back for
taking his gun, and he just keeps going back and
forth like that exactly. Uh. And then there's something also
(15:09):
called some states allow merchant searchers searches, Oh, like a
security guard at a department store or something. Yeah, or
even just a shop owner, like I saw you put
that thing in your pocket, Um, then go digging through
the pockets. Um. So yeah, if you're a shopkeeper, you
have certain rights as well. So if you are um
one of those people who likes to do citizens arrestaurants
(15:31):
interested by that kind of thing, um, which means he
couldn't make it as a cop crime crime fighters, um,
do you remember that one King of the Hill where uh,
the security guard like I think he drops Bobby off
or something like that, and um, the security guard tells
Hanky issues of them a warning that he's parked more
than three feet away from the curb, and Hank goes,
(15:53):
you're not a cop, and the guy goes, that's why
it's only a warning. Pretty great stuff. I heard a
interview a great interview with Mike Judge recently. Um, he's awesome,
he is and super super smart Idiocracy like he was
a physicist and engineer before before he got into the
(16:13):
animation game before he did be this and butt head wow,
which is really kind of funny. Nice. Yeah, I didn't
know that. Yeah, he's not a big fan of Idiocracy himself. Actually, man,
what is wrong with him? He basically was like, you know,
he's his I think general take was it was okay,
but it was sort of a which was kind of
my problem with like a one joke thing that ultimately
(16:35):
didn't play out over and over again. I loved it
all right, Um, he'll appreciate here in that I think
loved it. Mike Judge, So, uh, if you are going
to do this kind of stuff, you better know your
state laws in and out. Yeah. First of all, you
better know whether it has to be a felony for
(16:55):
you to to carry out a citizen's arrest, in which
case you better know the different between a misdemeter and
a felony, and different classes of felonies, so you know
when to intervene and when not to. You also need
to know whether you can use handcuffs or try to
restrain somebody right, what force you can use right at?
What escalation of force means, which typically um is, if
(17:18):
the guy is coming at you with a baseball bat,
you could conceivably come at him back with your own
blunt object. But if the guy's got a he brought
a baseball bat to a make fight, right yeah, which
I mean, that's they're both blunt objects, right. I would
take a spiked ball over a baseball bat. But if
that guy comes at you with like just as fists
(17:40):
and you knife them a bunch of times, you've escalated
the violence and you're probably going to be in trouble
across the board though, no matter what state you're in,
if it allows for citizens arrest, which I didn't see
a state that didn't have some sort of provision are there.
Did you run across any I think pretty much everywhere
you can eat. I mean, if you can arrest someone
(18:01):
in Massachusetts, right, then you can arrest someone anywhere. Um,
you do not have to read a suspect his or
her rights. Yeah, that makes sense though that I think
about it, because you're not an officer of the law, right,
and the Miranda Rights specifically give the right to remain
silent around officers of the law. Yeah, but if that
person sings like a canary, I think you can go
(18:24):
and testify later if you if you want. You are
a witness. You're not an officer of the law, and
therefore that person has no right to remain silent. I mean,
they cannot talk to you. But the stuff that they
that right against self incrimination, that that the Miranda Rights
give them does not apply to somebody telling a citizen
(18:45):
that kind of thing if the citizen wants to be
a state witness, which you probably do if you're you know,
you're probably like double waghmy citizens arrest and state witness
and now I have to go into witness identity protection
for the rest of my life. We we did an
episode on that too. Yeah, this is all part of
our crime and Punishment series, I guess. Um. The other
(19:06):
thing that I saw almost across the board, I think
is that if you commit, or if you keep saying commit,
it sounds like a crime. If you take part in
the citizen's arrest, you have to make your intention known
and tell them what you're doing, all right. You can't
just jump on someone and smash their face in the ground.
(19:28):
You have to like advertise I am making a citizen's arrest. Now,
according to crime fighters, there are some exceptions to that rule.
If the person if this is the commission of the crime,
like if that guy is like sitting there and has
the shop owner and it's like robbing somebody, you can
jump on them then without saying that. If they're fleeing
(19:50):
the commission of the crime, supposedly you can jump on
them without saying you're under arrest. And then apparently before
um arrest was considered part and parcel to detainment. So
again according to crime fighters, which again I suspect is
dubious in a lot of cases, Um that before you
(20:13):
had to at least lightly touched the person while telling
them that they you were performing a citizen's arrest and
then apparently it was later uninterpreted to not be the case.
You could just inform somebody, so Josh, we mentioned, um,
the one thing you have to do in almost all cases,
unless it's unless you're literally breaking up, you know, a crime,
(20:36):
that you have to tell them what you're doing. The
other thing across the board is as quickly as possible
you have to try and get the real police there.
Very important, Chuck. You know, you can't just uh go
like your eyes examined, or hold someone for questioning, Like,
don't start playing cop because you're not one. You you
need to immediately get a cop on the scene as
(20:58):
fast as possible and they wreck come in Like, don't
do that by putting them in your car and driving
them down to the station. No, there's a couple of
reasons for that. One is that your car is your
own property, and you could conceivably be considered um to
be imprisoning those people in your car, like you're kidnapping,
whereas with like a taxi, that's a public vehicle and
(21:19):
that kind of I would guess you could argue that
that was a public vehicle that these people got into
you with. And then secondly, the other reason why you
want to use the taxis because if you're driving your
own car, it's just the two of you and you're driving,
whereas with the taxi you're being given around by somebody.
But I wouldn't recommend a taxi either in today's cell
(21:39):
phone land, just get a cop there or just call
uber which is funny. There's a guy who uh in Sydney, Australia,
I think where we're huge um. He has been calling
uber cars, hiring uber cars and then citizens arresting the
drivers because they're breaking the law by not being licensed
(22:02):
taxi drivers. When you don like he's a lot of
fun at heart. When you google citizens arrest and click
on news, that was the first thing that comes up,
it's like some Australian uber vigilanti. Wow. Alright, so your
contention bad idea always here and there's just because there's
too many X factors. I mean, when when pro cops
(22:24):
are on the scene bystanders get shot. You know we're
talking about people who are, for all intents and purposes,
active vigilantes. I would guess that that would tace the
not necessarily. I mean an active vigilanti as someone who
prowlsed the streets praying, playing crime fighter. I would guess
(22:45):
that most of the citizens arrests carried out in this
country are by people like that. You think people who
are the head of neighborhood patrols, people who are um, yes,
prowling the streets. Well, there are a lot of George
Zimmerman's out there for exactly. But I would be curious
about statistics on people who are witnessing a crime and
(23:05):
jump in and help. Okay, So um to me, it's
it's just is uh, it's there's just too many X factors, um,
And there's a lot of things that can go wrong. Right.
So for example, UM, when you walk up to somebody
and say I am performing as citzens of arrest, touch
them lightly, right, or you don't have to do that anymore, um,
(23:28):
because you I am charging you with snatching that purse.
I just saw you do it. That person is probably
going to be like, you're not a cop. Yeah, I
doubt if they would say, well you got me, you
got me. Here's where you got zip ties on you,
because I've got some. If you don't write exactly, go ahead, Um,
(23:48):
that is probably not gonna happen right now. If that
doesn't happen, and you say, I want to warn you,
you're not coming with me can lead to charges of
resisting arrest, even though it's citizens arrested, which is true
in a lot of cases. Um, that person say well,
why don't you grab me and see what happens? And
(24:09):
when you do that, because you're a literalist, you grab
them to see what happens, and they stab you, which happens.
It actually happened to four Guardian Angels. You know those guys, right,
they're the professional citizens arrestors exactly. They really are. For
as as close as you can come to being a
pro that is the Guardian Angels. Yea. And if it
(24:31):
can go south on them, it can go south on you. Yeah.
I read this really interesting article about them. They were
formed in nineteen seventy nine in New York. Right, Yeah,
we should do with a show on them. That'd be great, Okay,
But in the meantime everybody should go read the Twilight
of the Guardian Angels and I think narratively on that site,
but it was really interesting. Started out as a McDonald's
(24:51):
manager who was sick of crime and his neighborhood and
recruited some of his other employees, and remember that guy,
Like I can still picture the main dude in my head.
He's still around. Yeah, because it was when we were kids.
It was a big deal, Guardian Angels. You heard about
it a lot there on talk show circuits. Uh, it
was a necessary thing in New York City. Yeah, they
were on Sally, they were on Donahue. Yea, yeah, they're
(25:13):
on all of them. Um, but as recently as two
thousand twelve in Chicago, four of them got stabbed when
they were trying to arrest a Personnatcher. Another guy came
up and just started stabbing him. One of the Guardian
Angels got stabbed in the head, another one in the ribs,
and both suspects got away. So if the Guardian Angels
as a group are getting stabbed, what do you think
(25:35):
is gonna happen to you? Yeah, when you walk up
and say I'm placing you under arrest, come with me. Yeah,
that's a good point. Okay, So there's point one is
a bad idea. Uh well point two was kind of
included in there. This person you have no idea what
kind of weapon they might have. You know, you might
see the weapon and if it's like someone holding up
(25:55):
a store or something like fast Times at Ridgemont High,
which case you uh, distract them, throw coffee on them.
Oh gnarly yeah, and then you get away, you know,
scott free. I think you hire Van Halen to play
your birthday party? Was it? Van um? But all getting
aside very dangerous. Even if you don't see a weapon
(26:19):
doesn't mean that you're scott free. And if you're one
of those people who's like, I'm Dabney Coleman, I have
like twenty four hours to live, so I don't care
if I die, Well, what about bystanders, innocent bystanders on you?
What if it's not a knight, But if it's a gun, sure, um.
So there's a lot of a lot of moving parts
(26:39):
that you have to take into account. And even crime
fighter says, if if you are thinking of performing a
citizen's arrest and there's a lot of people around, don't
because you have no idea how south it can go.
You don't know if the person has a gun, and
if so, if they're willing to shoot at you or
anybody else who gets in their way, it's yeah, I mean,
(27:01):
and again, unless you're seeing somebody in trouble, like in
real physical danger. Even crime fighters is like, you know,
maybe drop back and write their license plate number down
or just call the cops. This is even crime fighters
saying this, I know. And they're like those real life
superheroes that the streets at night with capes and masks.
(27:23):
They're coming up in a minute. So um. Another great
reason to not do so is a little something we
touched on earlier, which is you open yourself up to
all manner of lawsuits if you are mistaken, if things
don't go well, if you end up injuring this person
and they are innocent, falls, imprisonment charges, kidnapping, like you
(27:44):
name it. Man, you can be in big, big trouble,
pat down somebody the wrong way, sexual assault, um, even
salt and battery. Um yeah, if you like, even verbal
threats can lead to charges of assault and battery. That's right,
civil suits. You could be not only arrested, but you
could have the pants suit off of you exactly so
(28:05):
that that would be reason enough for me, aside from
the fact that I'm a pennywise pacifist. And then lastly, Chuck, yes,
the the the whole thing opens you up to a
possibility that is way more possible than the average time
when you're just walking around the street mining your own business,
of actually killing somebody. Yeah, George Zimmerman. Yes, and it's
(28:29):
not just George Zimmerman. It happens like it happens with
with citizens arrests. Where um, there's a guy in San
Jose and two thirteen, Ricardo Hernandez. He was um trying
to citizens arrest a burglar named or suspected burglar named
Christopher Soriano. They got into a fight over a gun
(28:49):
um that Hernandez had on him, and Soriano died. So
now Hernandez is going to prison for four years and
has a head on him, has a one on him. Ahead,
he killed somebody. Oh, I've never heard that term. So
that's a great point. Might end up killing someone. Do
you really want to do that right? Exactly? You gotta
(29:10):
think these things through. Yeah, there are very few people
that I would in trust to perform a citizen's arrest
in a in the right way. How about Phoenix Jones
and his sidekicking wife Purple Rain Seattle real life superheroes.
Oh well, that's always a bad idea. They dress up
and patrol the streets. He has his own YouTube channel. Yeah,
(29:31):
there's Dark Guardian in New York City who hangs around
Washington Square Park at night where we did a live podcast. Yeah,
there's a great documentary on the real life superheroes Razor
Hawk in Minneapolis. Yeah, they're all over and they um,
they can be a problem. Sometimes it's just for fun.
But it's not like the movie kick Ass. It doesn't
(29:53):
go down that way. Well. Yeah, and even cops are like,
do not do this, Like that's not a good idea. Yeah,
we don't need your help, that is what they're saying.
So crazy. Yeah, I wonder what happens when you try
to perform as citizens arrest on a cop um. I
imagine that doesn't go well these days. I would guess
(30:15):
that doesn't go well either. Yeah. I wouldn't advise that. No. Finally,
we come to his type of citizens arrest that you
advise not to do. No, no, no, no no, I don't
advise anyone to do it. Like I said, they were
very like my brother in law. I would entrust him
to do a citizen's arrest. Oh yeah, I've met him. Yeah,
I can see him doing the citizens arrest following the books,
(30:39):
or when it goes south like putting you like twisting
your arm behind your back or you're screaming uncle. Uh. Yeah,
but even in his case, it can go south, you know. Yeah,
I can go south in anybody. So he's got a gun,
he didn't see it, and then it's like it's all
over for him. That's no good. No one wants that.
That's right. See something, say something, not see something. Sit
(31:00):
on them. Man. This episode is so fraught it's crazy.
I think the message is clear. Okay, if you want
to know more about Citizens Arrest, you can go read
the blog post on it on Stuff you Should Know
dot com. Um. You can also just search citizens Arrest
and have hours of entertainment about and learn why you
shouldn't do this kind of thing. Uh. And since I
(31:22):
said you shouldn't do this, it's time for listener mail.
I'm gonna call this the film Vault. Our buddy Brian
Bishop of The Adam Corolla Show, and I emailed him
back from this and said, this is just the worst
kind of buzz marketing. Well, I'm gonna take him to
task on air. Brian is um. He works on The
(31:43):
Adam Corolla Show and he also has a podcast, The
Zone called The Film Vault, which is great, and uh,
we'll get him a little plug too. He also wrote
a great book called Shrinkage, Manhood, Marriage, and the Tumor
That Tried to Kill Me about his battle with cancer.
Great book. So Brian took us to task and he said, hey, guys,
I was listening to a recent episode and the subject
of Hollywood remakes came up. You guys are correcting this
(32:05):
because we bagged on pretty much all remakes or you did. Yes,
you guys are correct in the sense that the vast
majority are terrible. There are a few good, dare I
say great ones. However, we did an entire film Vault
episode on top five remakes, and here's my list with
some honorable mentions. And I told him we will just
take him to task right here. So number one on
(32:26):
his list is when I have a problem with Vanilla Sky. Yeah,
I didn't think that was a very good movie. What
when did they make that? Originally it was a Spanish
language movie, just like the year before. Um, I can't
remember the name of it, Dreams Open Your Eyes, I
think in Spanish whatever that is, so that um Cameron
(32:48):
Crow Remakes is Vanilla s guy, And I didn't think
it was a good That was his number one. Have
you seen his uh, Cameron Crow's latest movie. No, No,
I don't. I don't want to either. I used to
love that day, like he was my hero, my filmmaking hero.
I read this article. Um it was a poll of
(33:08):
just like a straw poll of critics movie critics around
the um the internet, like what director has let you
down the most? Yeah, and he was one of them
that was listed because he was so great and it's
just gone so downhill, far and away. The guy with
the most votes was m Night Sha Milan one good movie,
which like they still love him in Philadelphia. We found
(33:30):
out that's right alright. Number two, The Departed. I'm gonna
say yes for that for sure. That was I think
a Japanese movie called Infernal Affairs that Scorcese read a
Little Shop of Horrors. I honestly, I've never seen it,
so I have no opinion. I didn't know they remade
it Casino Royale. That's technically I guess you could call
(33:52):
that a remake. Yeah, but not so really, But no,
I guess it was. I mean it was the same plot,
all right. It was the same plot. Yeah, for the
most part. Ocean's Eleven. I'll hand it to him there.
I thought Ocean's Eleven was a really good movie and
a great remake. Okay, yeah, and then his honorable mention
the Italian Job. I never saw it. You never saw
(34:15):
the remake? Nope, I didn't either. No, I saw the remake.
I never saw the original. It was not great, and
he was stretching with that one. The Fly. I didn't
know the Fly. I had an original. So I'm gonna
go ahead and say great then, because cronenbergs the Fly,
it's awesome. Yeah, man, the the original fly. It has
Vincent Price in it and it ends with um they
like they switch. That's the thing, right, So like there's
(34:38):
a there's a human with a fly head freaky, and
then there's a fly with the human head and that
fly gets trapped in the spider's web at the end,
get the most unsettling sound where it's like, wow, it's
really disconcerted. I just got like chill bumps. Very well done.
(34:59):
I feel like we done that before. And people wrote
in We're like, don't do the fly impression. It's really unsettling.
The brindle fly. No, the original, the original fly. Uh.
He has the Ring, of course, the original Japanese version Ringo.
I believe I wasn't a big fan of the Ring.
It was fine. Three ten to Yuma, pretty good Western,
(35:19):
pretty good remake. I'll give him that. Did you ever
see the original for the Grudge? I think it's called
like You You ju On Dude good. Probably the best
Japanese horror film of all time, which is saying something
it was so good, prove me wrong, people. I'm always
looking for a good horror movie, and if you have
(35:40):
one that really top you on, not a different one,
but one that is actually better than you want, I
want to know about it, all right. And then he
finishes up the honorable mention list with Scarface, which just
put that instead of Vanilla Sky, and you've got a
pretty decent top five. His Scarface is great, Brian to
palms re of I think that had been done a
(36:01):
couple of times, if I'm not mistaken. What was it?
Jimmy Cagney was the first one, right, I think, so, uh,
Jimmy Cagney, and then Jimmy Stewart. Oh yeah, Fred McMurray.
So so, Brian goes to say this was back in
two thousand tens, so it may have been some good
ones since then, actually, but just so you don't lose
all hope that a remake can't be anything but awful.
(36:22):
That from our buddy Thanks, who just recently throughout the
first pitch a professional baseball and so did our friend
Nick Thune, And I'm like, what do you gotta do?
I want to throw out our first pitch? What what team?
The Giants? It wasn't the Giants did it in Seattle
where he's from. So he got to the field and
(36:43):
he like wore a full uniform and did the full
wind up and like, look good. Brian did it at
a Padres game even though he's a Giants fan, and um,
I think he said it went pretty well as as well.
He tells a story on the Adam Coral Show that
is awesome. Man, I want to do that. Yes, I
wonder if they'd let us do it together. Just yeah,
(37:03):
like the thing with two heads. Now they do that.
They ended up like the Stanley Cup winners, like five
or six of those guys, and they all did it
like they through at once, or they all took turnstoring,
or they they had five catchers and five hockey players
and they all threw it out at once. All right,
so there's hope for us. Yeah, just don't look like
fifty cent or Carl Lewis and you're all set. What
(37:25):
do you mean those are two of the worst first
pitches ever? Really happy? Well, I mean I would like
we would probably practice for a while. I would practice
a lot. Okay, Well, if you want to get in
touch with us to have us throughout the first pitch
of your professional MLB team's game, yeah not minor league,
not interested? No, uh, we are happy to do so.
You can tweet to us at s y s K podcast.
(37:47):
You can join us on Facebook dot com, slash stuff
you Should Know. You can send us an email to
stuff Podcast at how stuff Works dot com and has
always joined us at our home on the whiz ub
Stuff you Should Know dot com. For more on this
and thousands of other topics, visit how stuff Works dot com.
Welcome to you stuff you should know from house stuff
Works dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm
Josh Clark, There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant. You're under arrest.
I didn't do anything. Yeah, I saw it with my
own two eyes. You're coming with me. You didn't see
(00:22):
jack ant scene? Is that anthene or anthyne? How many
times you get to say that? Yeah? So that was
my rendition of how the citizens arrests could go. We've
been asked to do this for a while. Yeah, we
finally did. Yeah, we're doing it now. Did you know
that on June nine a man in Australia died while
(00:42):
being citizens arrested? Uh? No, he was being detained by
like five or six guys and held down for eight
minutes and zip tied and he died. You know, I
feel like we talked about once when um, some people
said don a guy to detain him, that we did
in London or something and he died. It happens, it
(01:05):
does have. I totally remember that. Yeah. It was guy's
busted in on a diamond shop. One got away, one
got sat on until he died. Yes, that was scary,
even though people were going to get off of me.
He's dying so um that that reveals one of the many, many,
many things that can go wrong during a citizen's arrest,
which is why we wanted to say at the top
(01:25):
of this and probably well many times, you should not
perform citizens arrest, even though it is conceivably your right
if you're here in America to do so, um and
all over the world you not necessarily mean almost every
single country has a citizen's arrest law, even ones that
are not touched by the long arm of the British Empire,
(01:48):
all over the place. I got the impression that was
basically an English common law concept. Maybe it's been co
opted then because I saw like Turkey, Hong Kong, all
over the world. Okay, wherever you are, you probably should
not try to performance since the arrest. There's all sorts
of other stuff you can do, especially in the day
(02:08):
of like a smartphone call the cops, take video, take video,
take pictures. Um. The one the one time when a
lot of citizens arrest laws do say you probably should
do something is when you see somebody being hurt, injured,
or their their life is in danger. For the most part, though,
(02:30):
especially if no one is being hurt. You should not
perform as citizens arrest. That's your advice to the general public. Yes,
do you not agree? I don't know. It depends. I
think it's situational, Okay, depends on who they are, who
you are, and what's going down. Well, the problem is
a lot of people say citizens arrest, you do that
(02:52):
for like if somebody if it won't turn down their
their stereo at night, stuff like that easily turns into
like a fight. Yeah, that's not his address. That you
should just have a little dummy, fine book and if
it makes you feel better to write somebody a citation,
do it. And as a result, a lot of states,
I think recognize the fact that if you just say yeah,
(03:13):
you can do citizens the rest for anything, it will
start out as somebody was trying to arrestue for playing
your stereo too loud, too late, and then turn into
a fight and then somebody dies that kind of thing.
So a lot of case, a lot of states say
you it has to be a felony. And there's all
sorts of other stipulations in details, But the whole thing,
like I said, Chuck, is rooted at least in the
(03:35):
United States and English common law, specifically the posse komitatas. Yeah,
dating back to medieval England. That was a time when, uh,
they needed that and the sheriff of the land counted
on citizens because they didn't have a police force of
hundreds of dudes, uh, and they needed citizens to help
(03:56):
them out. Basically, yeah, and possecomitatis is Latin for force
of the county or force of the community. And it
basically in English common law was the ability of the
sheriff to say, you, fifteen year old boy, and up,
you're able bodied. I need help arresting this guy. You
were obligated to help me to sit on him, to
(04:17):
sit on him, but get off and when I tell
you to. Yeah. And in the United States it was
I think, in which is not that long ago. I
mean just the turn of the nineteen hundreds, Philadelphia, big city,
only had fifteen detectives, so they counted on people to
help out. Um In the infamous mass murderer H. H.
(04:40):
Holmes was tracked and caught by a private citizen. Oh
was that right? Yeah, he was a private detective. But
it's not a cop, okay, because I was trying to
find like famous, have there ever been any like noteworthy
citizens arrest. That's pretty noteworthy. That was the only one
I could find, h Holmes. But it's because first serial
killer was brought down by citizens arrest. It was tough
(05:02):
to Uh, it's it's tough to get good information on
this though, because, as you'll see, the every state has
their own law, and within states, each municipality has different
versions of the law, right, so it's all over the place.
The rule of film that I ran across in researching
this is if the site or the text from a
site seemed huffy and indignant and just fed up, then
(05:25):
you should really take that stuff with a grain AsSalt. Yeah.
And I also found a lot of cases to these
days where it's become kind of a tool for activism,
where somebody like an environmentalist will try to arrest the
mayor in front of everyone at a town meeting. There's
a site called arrest Blair dot org, I believe, and
the it's a site dedicated to placing Tony Blair, the
(05:48):
Prime Minister, under arrest for war crimes, and like five
or six people have done it so far, and it's
all just totally symbolic. Yeah, exactly. But and there's a
lot of like steps that they suggest you follow and like,
don't make it seem like you're trying to carry out
any violent act or anything like that. It's all symbolic. Yeah,
but if you could get Tony Blair to come with
(06:09):
you to to I don't know, um jail. Sure, they're like,
go for it, but he's not going to know. I've
also seen people try to arrest like oil company executives
and stuff like that. Again just a statement. Uh, so
let's talk about let's break it down into a federal
law and state law. Um, federal law and you this
(06:31):
is a blog post of yours, right, and this where
this came from. How about that? How about it? It's
our first one based on a blog post which is
sort of just a version of an article no we did.
Um oh yeah, that's right. Good point. So if you're
talking federal law, um, it has to be interpreted as such.
(06:53):
It's not. It doesn't clearly say in federal law like
you can do this. No, there's some real fancy footwork
in interpreting this. And there's a group called um oh
what are they called time fighters? Yeah? I looked when
I wrote this blog post originally, Um, there's no website
(07:13):
for crime fighters. They have a newsletter should say a lot,
but there's this long document and you can find it
on the post for this episode on our website that
has like I mean, just every detail you could possibly
think of. Some of it good advice, some of it
contradictory advice, some advice not good, like for example, um,
(07:35):
there's uh sentences like when in doubt, check first, Like
if if you're not sure if a crime that you're
arresting somebody for is a misdemeanor or felony, check first.
So apparently when in doubt you should have already checked
beforehand is their guy or zip ties make handy handcuffs.
(07:56):
You should not be using handcuffs. Cops even use zip
ties cops do. Here's a there's a this is a
theme we're gonna keep running into chuck cops who are
sworn law enforcement officers. That's their career. And there's plenty
of cops that are like bad apples that I'm not
talking about that at this point. What I'm saying is
(08:18):
is if you're a citizens arrest person and you're carrying
around zip ties to use his handcuffs, you are going
to get in trouble because the same the same protections
that are afforded to cops who use zip ties are
not afforded to you necessarily. No, it's a different deal.
So if you look at a Title eight teen, Section
two two three six UM, when talking federal law, we
(08:43):
should probably just read this because the wording is important. Whoever,
being an officer, agent, or employee of the the United States
or any department of agency thereof, engaged in the enforcement
of any law of the United States, searches any private
dwelling used and occupied as such dwelling without a warrant
directing such search, or maliciously and without reasonable cause searches
(09:04):
any other building or property without a search warrant. Shall
be fined under this Title for a first offense, and
for a subsequent offense, shall be fined under this title,
and in prison not more than one year or both. Right. So, basically,
what's that that's saying is the the federal government is
aware that there's bad apples who are sworn officers of
the law UM, and they anybody who conducts a search
(09:27):
without a warrant or without probable cause is in trouble. Yes,
here's the thing. They're like there's a couple of exceptions,
and we want to make plain right. And they say
that this section shall not apply to any person, which
as huge as we'll see in a second, A serving
a warrant of arrest be arresting or attempting to arrest
(09:49):
a person committing or attempting to commit an offense in
his presence, or who is committed or is suspected on
reasonable grounds of having committed a felony, or making a
search at the request or invitation or with the consent
of the occupant of the premises. So they're saying, if
you're a law enforcement officer, you don't have to have
a warrant if one of those three A, B or
(10:12):
C is fulfilled. But the thing that crime stoppers UM,
crime fighters, The thing that crime fighters UH says is well, wait,
they switch language. The first part has to do with
the law enforcement officer. In the second part they use
the word person. Yeah, any person and any person as
a citizen. Right, that's right. So technically, UM, under federal law,
(10:36):
if you interpret it this way, you have the right
to UM take to commit I guess, commit to carry
out a citizens or ask if you if there is
a felony, right, so yeah, or if you could get
your hand on a warrant, which you can't unless you're
like a bounty hunter or a private detective, which, by
the way, bounty hunters, UM February Okay, if you want
(10:58):
to go listen to that one. Yep, it's a good one. Yeah,
we did that one in bail. Right, Bail and bounty
hunters is like a duel, that's right. Uh. And then
since most people, most citizens can't get their hands on
a warrant, that part b kicks in where if you
see somebody committing a felony, um, you're you can arrest them,
(11:18):
that's right. So that's what crime fighters and a lot
of other people say. This is federal justification for citizens arrest.
That's right. But the states, the states love citizens arrest, yes,
and we'll talk about those states laws right after this. So, Josh,
(11:52):
you mentioned that states love citizens arrest, love them. Not
exactly the case, but they definitely opened ings up quite
a bit. Uh. Depending on what state and what municipality
you live in. UM, you may be able to perform
citizens arrests on misdemeanors that you actually witness, felonies you
(12:13):
don't even witness, um, anything that could cause a breach
of peace, whether you witness it or not. And this
all depends on the state and or in the case
of Kentucky, you are called upon to do so. So
there's they say you must do so. Right, there's a
case in the thirties that has been interpreted in Kentucky
(12:37):
to mean that you if you see a crime in action,
like you have to do something. Yeah, the quote is
you must take affirmative steps, is what it says in
the law. I don't think you know, obviously they're not
going to charge someone with not doing something, although you
never know, but they do charge you in Kentucky with like, hey,
this is your obligation and going to do something. I mean,
(12:59):
you've seen the last episode of Seinfeld. It's basically the
same thing. They saw a man being harassed on the
street and laughed instead of helping him, and so they
were prosecuted under the Good Samaritan law. That's right. So
instead of see something, say something, it's see something, sit
on them. It's exactly right, that's the law. So, um,
that's Kentucky. There are other states that say you have
(13:21):
to see a felony in progress to make a citizen's arrest, right, um.
And then other states are saying you better know what
you're talking about. A few arrest isism because if a
conviction doesn't happen, that guy can turn around and sue you.
You can be charged with all sorts of things. Um,
(13:42):
so you better you better get that conviction, Like, you
better know what you're talking about. It better be a
cut and dried case if you're gonna make a citizen's arrest. Yeah.
And then there are all manner of um rules and
regulations depending on your state, like um. For instance, in Utah,
they will let you arrest somebody for a misdemeanor or felony,
but you're not allowed to use deadly force. Other states
(14:05):
say you can use what they call reasonable force, but
they you know, that's highly subjective and I guess would
be determined in a court. Uh. Some states say you
should not are not allowed to question or search your
The only thing you can do is detain them. And
this is in different countries too. They have similar laws
I looked at, like Canada and England and Finland and Norway.
(14:27):
I mean, it's all over the place and they're all
kind of similar. Um. Although in some states they will
let you see as a weapon or evidence if it
is in plain view, or if you're under an immediate threat,
like you can take a gun from a guy um
or sees if you know the key low cocaine spills
out onto the street, you can like brush that aside
(14:47):
and say, dear, would you put that in the car
until the cops get here. That'd be funny if you
don't realize that you're in a state where you're not
allowed to take a gun. So you take a guy's
gun and he's like, he's citizens arrest you back for
taking his gun, and he just keeps going back and
forth like that exactly. Uh. And then there's something also
(15:09):
called some states allow merchant searchers searches, Oh, like a
security guard at a department store or something. Yeah, or
even just a shop owner, like I saw you put
that thing in your pocket, Um, then go digging through
the pockets. Um. So yeah, if you're a shopkeeper, you
have certain rights as well. So if you are um
one of those people who likes to do citizens arrestaurants
(15:31):
interested by that kind of thing, um, which means he
couldn't make it as a cop crime crime fighters, um,
do you remember that one King of the Hill where uh,
the security guard like I think he drops Bobby off
or something like that, and um, the security guard tells
Hanky issues of them a warning that he's parked more
than three feet away from the curb, and Hank goes,
(15:53):
you're not a cop, and the guy goes, that's why
it's only a warning. Pretty great stuff. I heard a
interview a great interview with Mike Judge recently. Um, he's awesome,
he is and super super smart Idiocracy like he was
a physicist and engineer before before he got into the
(16:13):
animation game before he did be this and butt head wow,
which is really kind of funny. Nice. Yeah, I didn't
know that. Yeah, he's not a big fan of Idiocracy himself. Actually, man,
what is wrong with him? He basically was like, you know,
he's his I think general take was it was okay,
but it was sort of a which was kind of
my problem with like a one joke thing that ultimately
(16:35):
didn't play out over and over again. I loved it
all right, Um, he'll appreciate here in that I think
loved it. Mike Judge, So, uh, if you are going
to do this kind of stuff, you better know your
state laws in and out. Yeah. First of all, you
better know whether it has to be a felony for
(16:55):
you to to carry out a citizen's arrest, in which
case you better know the different between a misdemeter and
a felony, and different classes of felonies, so you know
when to intervene and when not to. You also need
to know whether you can use handcuffs or try to
restrain somebody right, what force you can use right at?
What escalation of force means, which typically um is, if
(17:18):
the guy is coming at you with a baseball bat,
you could conceivably come at him back with your own
blunt object. But if the guy's got a he brought
a baseball bat to a make fight, right yeah, which
I mean, that's they're both blunt objects, right. I would
take a spiked ball over a baseball bat. But if
that guy comes at you with like just as fists
(17:40):
and you knife them a bunch of times, you've escalated
the violence and you're probably going to be in trouble
across the board though, no matter what state you're in,
if it allows for citizens arrest, which I didn't see
a state that didn't have some sort of provision are there.
Did you run across any I think pretty much everywhere
you can eat. I mean, if you can arrest someone
(18:01):
in Massachusetts, right, then you can arrest someone anywhere. Um,
you do not have to read a suspect his or
her rights. Yeah, that makes sense though that I think
about it, because you're not an officer of the law, right,
and the Miranda Rights specifically give the right to remain
silent around officers of the law. Yeah, but if that
person sings like a canary, I think you can go
(18:24):
and testify later if you if you want. You are
a witness. You're not an officer of the law, and
therefore that person has no right to remain silent. I mean,
they cannot talk to you. But the stuff that they
that right against self incrimination, that that the Miranda Rights
give them does not apply to somebody telling a citizen
(18:45):
that kind of thing if the citizen wants to be
a state witness, which you probably do if you're you know,
you're probably like double waghmy citizens arrest and state witness
and now I have to go into witness identity protection
for the rest of my life. We we did an
episode on that too. Yeah, this is all part of
our crime and Punishment series, I guess. Um. The other
(19:06):
thing that I saw almost across the board, I think
is that if you commit, or if you keep saying commit,
it sounds like a crime. If you take part in
the citizen's arrest, you have to make your intention known
and tell them what you're doing, all right. You can't
just jump on someone and smash their face in the ground.
(19:28):
You have to like advertise I am making a citizen's arrest. Now,
according to crime fighters, there are some exceptions to that rule.
If the person if this is the commission of the crime,
like if that guy is like sitting there and has
the shop owner and it's like robbing somebody, you can
jump on them then without saying that. If they're fleeing
(19:50):
the commission of the crime, supposedly you can jump on
them without saying you're under arrest. And then apparently before
um arrest was considered part and parcel to detainment. So
again according to crime fighters, which again I suspect is
dubious in a lot of cases, Um that before you
(20:13):
had to at least lightly touched the person while telling
them that they you were performing a citizen's arrest and
then apparently it was later uninterpreted to not be the case.
You could just inform somebody, so Josh, we mentioned, um,
the one thing you have to do in almost all cases,
unless it's unless you're literally breaking up, you know, a crime,
(20:36):
that you have to tell them what you're doing. The
other thing across the board is as quickly as possible
you have to try and get the real police there.
Very important, Chuck. You know, you can't just uh go
like your eyes examined, or hold someone for questioning, Like,
don't start playing cop because you're not one. You you
need to immediately get a cop on the scene as
(20:58):
fast as possible and they wreck come in Like, don't
do that by putting them in your car and driving
them down to the station. No, there's a couple of
reasons for that. One is that your car is your
own property, and you could conceivably be considered um to
be imprisoning those people in your car, like you're kidnapping,
whereas with like a taxi, that's a public vehicle and
(21:19):
that kind of I would guess you could argue that
that was a public vehicle that these people got into
you with. And then secondly, the other reason why you
want to use the taxis because if you're driving your
own car, it's just the two of you and you're driving,
whereas with the taxi you're being given around by somebody.
But I wouldn't recommend a taxi either in today's cell
(21:39):
phone land, just get a cop there or just call
uber which is funny. There's a guy who uh in Sydney, Australia,
I think where we're huge um. He has been calling
uber cars, hiring uber cars and then citizens arresting the
drivers because they're breaking the law by not being licensed
(22:02):
taxi drivers. When you don like he's a lot of
fun at heart. When you google citizens arrest and click
on news, that was the first thing that comes up,
it's like some Australian uber vigilanti. Wow. Alright, so your
contention bad idea always here and there's just because there's
too many X factors. I mean, when when pro cops
(22:24):
are on the scene bystanders get shot. You know we're
talking about people who are, for all intents and purposes,
active vigilantes. I would guess that that would tace the
not necessarily. I mean an active vigilanti as someone who
prowlsed the streets praying, playing crime fighter. I would guess
(22:45):
that most of the citizens arrests carried out in this
country are by people like that. You think people who
are the head of neighborhood patrols, people who are um, yes,
prowling the streets. Well, there are a lot of George
Zimmerman's out there for exactly. But I would be curious
about statistics on people who are witnessing a crime and
(23:05):
jump in and help. Okay, So um to me, it's
it's just is uh, it's there's just too many X factors, um,
And there's a lot of things that can go wrong. Right.
So for example, UM, when you walk up to somebody
and say I am performing as citzens of arrest, touch
them lightly, right, or you don't have to do that anymore, um,
(23:28):
because you I am charging you with snatching that purse.
I just saw you do it. That person is probably
going to be like, you're not a cop. Yeah, I
doubt if they would say, well you got me, you
got me. Here's where you got zip ties on you,
because I've got some. If you don't write exactly, go ahead, Um,
(23:48):
that is probably not gonna happen right now. If that
doesn't happen, and you say, I want to warn you,
you're not coming with me can lead to charges of
resisting arrest, even though it's citizens arrested, which is true
in a lot of cases. Um, that person say well,
why don't you grab me and see what happens? And
(24:09):
when you do that, because you're a literalist, you grab
them to see what happens, and they stab you, which happens.
It actually happened to four Guardian Angels. You know those guys, right,
they're the professional citizens arrestors exactly. They really are. For
as as close as you can come to being a
pro that is the Guardian Angels. Yea. And if it
(24:31):
can go south on them, it can go south on you. Yeah.
I read this really interesting article about them. They were
formed in nineteen seventy nine in New York. Right, Yeah,
we should do with a show on them. That'd be great, Okay,
But in the meantime everybody should go read the Twilight
of the Guardian Angels and I think narratively on that site,
but it was really interesting. Started out as a McDonald's
(24:51):
manager who was sick of crime and his neighborhood and
recruited some of his other employees, and remember that guy,
Like I can still picture the main dude in my head.
He's still around. Yeah, because it was when we were kids.
It was a big deal, Guardian Angels. You heard about
it a lot there on talk show circuits. Uh, it
was a necessary thing in New York City. Yeah, they
were on Sally, they were on Donahue. Yea, yeah, they're
(25:13):
on all of them. Um, but as recently as two
thousand twelve in Chicago, four of them got stabbed when
they were trying to arrest a Personnatcher. Another guy came
up and just started stabbing him. One of the Guardian
Angels got stabbed in the head, another one in the ribs,
and both suspects got away. So if the Guardian Angels
as a group are getting stabbed, what do you think
(25:35):
is gonna happen to you? Yeah, when you walk up
and say I'm placing you under arrest, come with me. Yeah,
that's a good point. Okay, So there's point one is
a bad idea. Uh well point two was kind of
included in there. This person you have no idea what
kind of weapon they might have. You know, you might
see the weapon and if it's like someone holding up
(25:55):
a store or something like fast Times at Ridgemont High,
which case you uh, distract them, throw coffee on them.
Oh gnarly yeah, and then you get away, you know,
scott free. I think you hire Van Halen to play
your birthday party? Was it? Van um? But all getting
aside very dangerous. Even if you don't see a weapon
(26:19):
doesn't mean that you're scott free. And if you're one
of those people who's like, I'm Dabney Coleman, I have
like twenty four hours to live, so I don't care
if I die, Well, what about bystanders, innocent bystanders on you?
What if it's not a knight, But if it's a gun, sure, um.
So there's a lot of a lot of moving parts
(26:39):
that you have to take into account. And even crime
fighter says, if if you are thinking of performing a
citizen's arrest and there's a lot of people around, don't
because you have no idea how south it can go.
You don't know if the person has a gun, and
if so, if they're willing to shoot at you or
anybody else who gets in their way, it's yeah, I mean,
(27:01):
and again, unless you're seeing somebody in trouble, like in
real physical danger. Even crime fighters is like, you know,
maybe drop back and write their license plate number down
or just call the cops. This is even crime fighters
saying this, I know. And they're like those real life
superheroes that the streets at night with capes and masks.
(27:23):
They're coming up in a minute. So um. Another great
reason to not do so is a little something we
touched on earlier, which is you open yourself up to
all manner of lawsuits if you are mistaken, if things
don't go well, if you end up injuring this person
and they are innocent, falls, imprisonment charges, kidnapping, like you
(27:44):
name it. Man, you can be in big, big trouble,
pat down somebody the wrong way, sexual assault, um, even
salt and battery. Um yeah, if you like, even verbal
threats can lead to charges of assault and battery. That's right,
civil suits. You could be not only arrested, but you
could have the pants suit off of you exactly so
(28:05):
that that would be reason enough for me, aside from
the fact that I'm a pennywise pacifist. And then lastly, Chuck, yes,
the the the whole thing opens you up to a
possibility that is way more possible than the average time
when you're just walking around the street mining your own business,
of actually killing somebody. Yeah, George Zimmerman. Yes, and it's
(28:29):
not just George Zimmerman. It happens like it happens with
with citizens arrests. Where um, there's a guy in San
Jose and two thirteen, Ricardo Hernandez. He was um trying
to citizens arrest a burglar named or suspected burglar named
Christopher Soriano. They got into a fight over a gun
(28:49):
um that Hernandez had on him, and Soriano died. So
now Hernandez is going to prison for four years and
has a head on him, has a one on him. Ahead,
he killed somebody. Oh, I've never heard that term. So
that's a great point. Might end up killing someone. Do
you really want to do that right? Exactly? You gotta
(29:10):
think these things through. Yeah, there are very few people
that I would in trust to perform a citizen's arrest
in a in the right way. How about Phoenix Jones
and his sidekicking wife Purple Rain Seattle real life superheroes.
Oh well, that's always a bad idea. They dress up
and patrol the streets. He has his own YouTube channel. Yeah,
(29:31):
there's Dark Guardian in New York City who hangs around
Washington Square Park at night where we did a live podcast. Yeah,
there's a great documentary on the real life superheroes Razor
Hawk in Minneapolis. Yeah, they're all over and they um,
they can be a problem. Sometimes it's just for fun.
But it's not like the movie kick Ass. It doesn't
(29:53):
go down that way. Well. Yeah, and even cops are like,
do not do this, Like that's not a good idea. Yeah,
we don't need your help, that is what they're saying.
So crazy. Yeah, I wonder what happens when you try
to perform as citizens arrest on a cop um. I
imagine that doesn't go well these days. I would guess
(30:15):
that doesn't go well either. Yeah. I wouldn't advise that. No. Finally,
we come to his type of citizens arrest that you
advise not to do. No, no, no, no no, I don't
advise anyone to do it. Like I said, they were
very like my brother in law. I would entrust him
to do a citizen's arrest. Oh yeah, I've met him. Yeah,
I can see him doing the citizens arrest following the books,
(30:39):
or when it goes south like putting you like twisting
your arm behind your back or you're screaming uncle. Uh. Yeah,
but even in his case, it can go south, you know. Yeah,
I can go south in anybody. So he's got a gun,
he didn't see it, and then it's like it's all
over for him. That's no good. No one wants that.
That's right. See something, say something, not see something. Sit
(31:00):
on them. Man. This episode is so fraught it's crazy.
I think the message is clear. Okay, if you want
to know more about Citizens Arrest, you can go read
the blog post on it on Stuff you Should Know
dot com. Um. You can also just search citizens Arrest
and have hours of entertainment about and learn why you
shouldn't do this kind of thing. Uh. And since I
(31:22):
said you shouldn't do this, it's time for listener mail.
I'm gonna call this the film Vault. Our buddy Brian
Bishop of The Adam Corolla Show, and I emailed him
back from this and said, this is just the worst
kind of buzz marketing. Well, I'm gonna take him to
task on air. Brian is um. He works on The
(31:43):
Adam Corolla Show and he also has a podcast, The
Zone called The Film Vault, which is great, and uh,
we'll get him a little plug too. He also wrote
a great book called Shrinkage, Manhood, Marriage, and the Tumor
That Tried to Kill Me about his battle with cancer.
Great book. So Brian took us to task and he said, hey, guys,
I was listening to a recent episode and the subject
of Hollywood remakes came up. You guys are correcting this
(32:05):
because we bagged on pretty much all remakes or you did. Yes,
you guys are correct in the sense that the vast
majority are terrible. There are a few good, dare I
say great ones. However, we did an entire film Vault
episode on top five remakes, and here's my list with
some honorable mentions. And I told him we will just
take him to task right here. So number one on
(32:26):
his list is when I have a problem with Vanilla Sky. Yeah,
I didn't think that was a very good movie. What
when did they make that? Originally it was a Spanish
language movie, just like the year before. Um, I can't
remember the name of it, Dreams Open Your Eyes, I
think in Spanish whatever that is, so that um Cameron
(32:48):
Crow Remakes is Vanilla s guy, And I didn't think
it was a good That was his number one. Have
you seen his uh, Cameron Crow's latest movie. No, No,
I don't. I don't want to either. I used to
love that day, like he was my hero, my filmmaking hero.
I read this article. Um it was a poll of
(33:08):
just like a straw poll of critics movie critics around
the um the internet, like what director has let you
down the most? Yeah, and he was one of them
that was listed because he was so great and it's
just gone so downhill, far and away. The guy with
the most votes was m Night Sha Milan one good movie,
which like they still love him in Philadelphia. We found
(33:30):
out that's right alright. Number two, The Departed. I'm gonna
say yes for that for sure. That was I think
a Japanese movie called Infernal Affairs that Scorcese read a
Little Shop of Horrors. I honestly, I've never seen it,
so I have no opinion. I didn't know they remade
it Casino Royale. That's technically I guess you could call
(33:52):
that a remake. Yeah, but not so really, But no,
I guess it was. I mean it was the same plot,
all right. It was the same plot. Yeah, for the
most part. Ocean's Eleven. I'll hand it to him there.
I thought Ocean's Eleven was a really good movie and
a great remake. Okay, yeah, and then his honorable mention
the Italian Job. I never saw it. You never saw
(34:15):
the remake? Nope, I didn't either. No, I saw the remake.
I never saw the original. It was not great, and
he was stretching with that one. The Fly. I didn't
know the Fly. I had an original. So I'm gonna
go ahead and say great then, because cronenbergs the Fly,
it's awesome. Yeah, man, the the original fly. It has
Vincent Price in it and it ends with um they
like they switch. That's the thing, right, So like there's
(34:38):
a there's a human with a fly head freaky, and
then there's a fly with the human head and that
fly gets trapped in the spider's web at the end,
get the most unsettling sound where it's like, wow, it's
really disconcerted. I just got like chill bumps. Very well done.
(34:59):
I feel like we done that before. And people wrote
in We're like, don't do the fly impression. It's really unsettling.
The brindle fly. No, the original, the original fly. Uh.
He has the Ring, of course, the original Japanese version Ringo.
I believe I wasn't a big fan of the Ring.
It was fine. Three ten to Yuma, pretty good Western,
(35:19):
pretty good remake. I'll give him that. Did you ever
see the original for the Grudge? I think it's called
like You You ju On Dude good. Probably the best
Japanese horror film of all time, which is saying something
it was so good, prove me wrong, people. I'm always
looking for a good horror movie, and if you have
(35:40):
one that really top you on, not a different one,
but one that is actually better than you want, I
want to know about it, all right. And then he
finishes up the honorable mention list with Scarface, which just
put that instead of Vanilla Sky, and you've got a
pretty decent top five. His Scarface is great, Brian to
palms re of I think that had been done a
(36:01):
couple of times, if I'm not mistaken. What was it?
Jimmy Cagney was the first one, right, I think, so, uh,
Jimmy Cagney, and then Jimmy Stewart. Oh yeah, Fred McMurray.
So so, Brian goes to say this was back in
two thousand tens, so it may have been some good
ones since then, actually, but just so you don't lose
all hope that a remake can't be anything but awful.
(36:22):
That from our buddy Thanks, who just recently throughout the
first pitch a professional baseball and so did our friend
Nick Thune, And I'm like, what do you gotta do?
I want to throw out our first pitch? What what team?
The Giants? It wasn't the Giants did it in Seattle
where he's from. So he got to the field and
(36:43):
he like wore a full uniform and did the full
wind up and like, look good. Brian did it at
a Padres game even though he's a Giants fan, and um,
I think he said it went pretty well as as well.
He tells a story on the Adam Coral Show that
is awesome. Man, I want to do that. Yes, I
wonder if they'd let us do it together. Just yeah,
(37:03):
like the thing with two heads. Now they do that.
They ended up like the Stanley Cup winners, like five
or six of those guys, and they all did it
like they through at once, or they all took turnstoring,
or they they had five catchers and five hockey players
and they all threw it out at once. All right,
so there's hope for us. Yeah, just don't look like
fifty cent or Carl Lewis and you're all set. What
(37:25):
do you mean those are two of the worst first
pitches ever? Really happy? Well, I mean I would like
we would probably practice for a while. I would practice
a lot. Okay, Well, if you want to get in
touch with us to have us throughout the first pitch
of your professional MLB team's game, yeah not minor league,
not interested? No, uh, we are happy to do so.
You can tweet to us at s y s K podcast.
(37:47):
You can join us on Facebook dot com, slash stuff
you Should Know. You can send us an email to
stuff Podcast at how stuff Works dot com and has
always joined us at our home on the whiz ub
Stuff you Should Know dot com. For more on this
and thousands of other topics, visit how stuff Works dot com.
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