May 14, 2015 • 43 mins
Tens of millions of Scouts, and their parents, have taken standard blocks of wood and turned them into cars that zip along at up to 20 mph. Learn about the origin, physics and more of Pinewood Derbies in this episode.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to you Stuff you Should Know from House Stuff
Works dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm
Josh Clark. There's Charles w Chuck Bryant. Jerry's over there
with her timer wagging her finger, which means it's time
to start. Stuff you should know. The podcast just got
(00:22):
out of ruler. She ready to wrap us on the knuckles. Yeah,
you can get out of line. It's like a nun
it's right and Chuck. Before we get started, I want
to tell everybody they can follow us on Twitter at
s Y S Kid Podcast. Oh yeah, they can join
us on Facebook dot com slash Stuff you should know.
Why are we going backwards? Huh? Okay, if you want
to send us an email, you can send it to
Stuff Podcast at how Stuff Works dot com. Yeah, we
(00:45):
have a beautiful old website called Stuff you should Know
dot com where all sorts of other neat stuff happens too.
All right, so this listener mail I'm just gonna call.
Uh oh wait, sorry, you gotta save it and saving
it Chuck. Yes, were you in boy Scouts or cub Scouts? Nope?
I went to one cub Scout meeting and uh I
(01:06):
didn't go back because The very first meeting I was
at was there beginning of their candy sale, the ritual
sacrifice now at the beginning of their candy sale, and
I just didn't As a little kid for some reason,
I didn't like my first meeting them saying, here's a
bunch of candy, go sell it. Yeah, but you know
they front you're a bunch of candy. They let you
walk away with a box of can It turned me off.
(01:28):
And I'm not knocking it. It's a great organization, but
I just never went back. I can't imagine. It's not
the best one to start out on. Plus I was
I was a Cub. I did cub scouty things just
in life because you know, it was a big into
camping and stuff. And I was taught wilderness survival at
a young age, so I was like, I was my own,
had my own scouting troop. Your parents just dropped you
(01:49):
off in the woods. Once back, Yeah, it all worked out.
Made my way back about a year later. Yeah, there
was none, no worse for the wear. So you never
made a pine with Derby car hunt, No, Well, I've
never made a pine with Derby car. But in Industrial
arts class I made the the CEO two racing cars,
remember those, yeah, which sort of it's sort of like
(02:10):
the Pine with Derby, but it's powered by noxious gasses?
Is it not just gas? Now it's actually CEO two. Yeah,
I think it might be noxious though it's not obnoxious,
but it's noxious and then it will kill you. Well,
it's a kind of a funny story actually, I and
my brother one of course, because he's my brother cheering
(02:34):
him on. Now. He won, uh, the school, and then
he won county, and then he went to state for
the and I don't think he won state, No, but
he did place most handsome. He did most Handsome Racer.
And then I, of course, like everything else, I tried
to copy my brother. I'm still doing today, and um
sure I am and he um and I tried to
(02:56):
copy his design and mine just turned out a little
crooked and not quite a straight and um, I didn't
even win in my class, not alone the school man.
So that just goes to show you my brother is
better at everything than me. That's a great story. His
was awesome, man, that that thing flew, and mine was
like knocking against the track and was missing a tooth. Yeah,
(03:18):
it was a pale impression. Pale impersonation. But that is
a great lesson. You gotta forge your own way. That's right,
you know, my ugly little car. That's that's the lesson
of this Pinewood Derby episode. You have to create your
own Pinewood Derby car, and not just figuratively but metaphorically
(03:39):
as well. Well, what's the Pine with Derby? I think
some people there's a lot of people that are like,
oh my god, this is the best, and then the
other of your like, what so the Pine with Derby
is the nation's premier gravity racing event. Yeah. It takes
place around the country around this time, I think, right,
does it beat street luge? Uh? It's a great point.
(04:03):
I said, this is the second best. Okay, miniature gravity racing.
What about many street luge man? Um? And yeah, I
think around It takes place around this time of year.
Oh is it? Yeah? Cub scouts and boy scouts around
the country, around the world. Are they into it now?
To make little wooden cars um and race them? And
(04:29):
it uses nothing but gravity, the force of gravity, little
angular momentum, reduction of friction, that kind of thing to
see whose car is fastest? Yeah. So um, we'll get
in to the details in the history, but it's basically,
you know, like you said, a track that starts on
a hill and it has a little, um call it
a pin, but it's like a little stick basically holds
(04:50):
the car in place right at the at the front,
and then they pull a lever and those sticks drop
and then um, it's like the starting gate and then
it rolls. Because anyone who listened to our slinky episode.
When the cars are up there pressed against the starting pin,
they've got tons of potential energy. Then right when that
(05:11):
that starting pin has removed, that potential energy turns to
kinetic energy and gravity pulls them downward to the tune
of like twenty miles or so. But the cool thing
about Pinewood Derby Racing is that all of the UM
cars start out the exact same They're blocks of wood
with the same wheels, the same axles, And it's up
(05:31):
to the cub scouts in their moms to uh craft
this thing, to to make it slightly different enough that
it wins the race. It beats these other cars that
were also the same kinds of blocks of wood before. Yes,
or uh, you're not so concerned with winning and you
just want a cool looking car and you want to
(05:51):
have a good experience with your parents. That was me
with my car, the Pinewood Derby car I made with
my Did you do it? Really? One most creative? There's
a coke bottle, No way, and I like you a
real coke bottle. You got the piece of wood and
carved into a coke bottle. Yeah, the would, okay because
other people, you know, they can there's all sorts of
(06:11):
things you can do now, Yeah, but you couldn't use
a coke bottle and do it. You'd be disqualified on
the spot and maybe laughed out of the place. No,
there's like there's different versions now like there there can
be like the regular hardcore race and then the one
that's a little more fun where you can use different Uh. Oh,
I got you, Yeah, I got you. But I mean
that's not the origin. The origin was, like you said,
(06:31):
just straight up woodblocks. So and let's talk about the
origin of this year. Well did you win that? I
want to hear about your one most creative at all?
So you were into just the cool looking thing. Yeah,
as a cub scout, a boy scout cub scouts, did
you boy scout? You've had enough I did. Actually, um,
my dad was the dead parent. That's nice, but I
(06:54):
quit mid season and he continued on as the dead Parents. Really,
there's more than one awkward boy Scout meeting at my
house where like I just went hung out, you like,
wander through eating a twinky. Yeah. My dad was like,
I can't believe this interesting, so he stuck it out.
Yeah that's kind of admirable. I guess I had a
thing where I, um, they the Cub Scouts teach and
(07:17):
Boy Scouts teach that you just respect your elders as
a rule of thumb. Well, I've met too many elderly
people who I didn't feel deserved respect across the board,
and that I disputed this idea enough that I left. Wow, yeah,
that's pretty awesome. That was why I left because I
had to sell candy. You left because there were a
(07:38):
bunch of jerky old people in your community. I just
didn't think that everyone deserves blank respect. I think you
earn respect absolutely. You know, Hey, that's a pretty forward
thinking thing for a little young Josh. You just didn't
want to go. No, it really was that you're like
the meetings with the same night at the eight team.
So yeah, there was one meeting where I just sat
there and watched the eight team really loud. Well, my
(07:59):
dad and the rest of the Scouts are trying to meet.
That's pretty good stuff. So yes, my dad and I won.
I think it's most creative category for the coke bottle
at Southwick Mall and Toledo, Ohio, that's where they had
the racist It's pretty funny. And you still drink like
a gazillion Cokes a day, not cokes well, Cooke zero
or whatever. Yeah, I've tried to limit it. I don't
(08:21):
drink a gazillion. I would say I drink a lot
of water and coffee too. You just you're you get
beveraged up like no one I've ever seen. Now. It's weird,
you know. It's like I constantly have to be drinking something. Yeah,
I don't get it. Hey, that's your thing. Huh, it's
no big deal. It's not like you're like downing bottles
of vodka all day long. Just red bull um. All right,
(08:43):
So you want to talk about the history of this thing,
let's don Murphy. May nine is when the first Pinewood
Derby was held in southern California, Manhattan Beach, California, which
is where you means, and my friend Molly is from.
You can be from worst places in the world. You
know who else pretty sweet either is from or lives
(09:05):
in Manhattan Beach. I looked this up who Kevin Nealon,
Don Dokin uh and then some other people too. I
think our buddies, uh Luke and Catherine Ryan live in
Manhattan Beach. Oh do they? That is a nice town.
It's like a small town feel on the California's coast,
(09:25):
like on the boardwalk that connects like all the other towns.
Pretty nice. That's where the Lost Boys live? Was it? No?
I think they were like Santa Cruz or something like. Yeah.
I think they were a little more north all right,
so very nice history of Manhattan Beach residents. Don Murphy
was a cub Scout leader for Pack to eighty and
(09:47):
um he had he had some kids that wanted to
because there's this other race called the soapbox derby. This
is when you actually put your child in this thing
to be injured and put and push him down a hill.
But he had some kids. You have to be a
certain age to do that, and um, his boys were like, Dad,
I want to be in the soapbox Derby, and he said,
well son, you're too young. So he tried to think
(10:09):
of something that you could do together with his boys
and came up with the Pinewood Derby, which is a
pretty cool idea. Yeah you know. Yeah, it's basically making
a soapbox derby racer too small for human to fit
and be injured in. It's correct. Yeah, much safer, I
would imagine. So. Um. Apparently, like at this first one,
they pulled out all the stops immediately. Um, they came
(10:32):
up with a regulation wood blocks, wheels, and axles that
everybody had to use the same things. Right. The axles
are just nails, yeah, but they had wooden struts that
the nails went into too. Um, And the they came
up with a pretty cool track, like a thirty two
or forty something foot track. The first one was thirty
(10:53):
one okay. And then but they also used like old
doorbells to create like, um timekeeper, so whichever car passed
the thing first would set off a light in that
lane above that lane. He's got a little more advanced
since then, Yes, I mean that's that's that's pretty advanced
(11:15):
for the first one. Yeah, not bad for the early
nineteen fifties. No, and so the first this first one,
I'm at three in Manhattan Beach. Um. Apparently it was
just such a total hit that the guy who invented
at Don Murphy was like, this is some this is
a thing. Yeah, how can I make money on it?
Apparently he didn't. Now he didn't, but Boil. A lot
(11:35):
of people have since then, which we'll get to as well.
A lot of um entrepreneurial fathers were like, hey, I
can make some dough on this by designing these things. Yeah,
good for them, all right, you know so um Don
Murphy with the other route and so I don't want
(11:56):
to share this with the world. This is my creation. Um,
and I'm going to get in touch with the Boy
Scouts of America and say, hey, guys, I've got this thing.
And the Boy Scouts said, that's great. We're sending out
Boys Life Magazine to cover this. It's gonna be hot
off the presses. Remember that um an airplane where the
(12:16):
little uh the kids reading Now the nun is reading
Boys Life Magazine and the little boys reading Nuns Life
Magazine next to that's pretty funny. So Boys Life Magazine
is like the official magazine of boy Scouts, right, and
they came out and covered it, and I think nineteen
fifty four the next year, but it was just kind
of like a little blurb a little right up one
(12:38):
page or it didn't really get the extent of this across. Yeah,
and um by ve they had over three hundred people
racing for the championships in l A's Griffith Park. And
um now, I think since its inception, over fifty million
kids have done this and a ninety million including parents,
(12:58):
which is a little lazy to me. They are just
like they're just had two parents per kids. Object a few,
let's make it ninety million. But yeah, it's become a
huge hit and a tradition that lives on today. Um
and kind of the same way. I mean, they've gotten
way more um involved in making these things as fast
(13:19):
as possible, but the general gist of it and the
rules are about the same. Yeah, and let's talk about
the rules right after this break, So chuck to make
(13:43):
these things fair. All pinewood derby cars start off the
exact scence, little woodblock, some regulation wheels and axles, right,
and then it's up to you, the scout, to make
it your own and um, this article funny enough says
that aerodynamics don't really play a role. That is not
the case at all. No, they play um uh if
(14:07):
you want to speak scientifically, and eleven percent um reduction
and speed just using the wood block. Yeah, if you
if you make it more aerodynamic, So it's um, it matters,
but it doesn't matter quite as much as you think
it might, right, but it does have some effect. Absolutely
eleven and so um, there are some some guidelines to
(14:32):
making a soapbox derby racer Pinewood man, it's gonna get
me all episode. That's okay, Just remember soapbox equals death
of child, pinewood equals fun for child. Great, Okay, Okay,
I think I got it now. That's right. Um, no
car can weigh more than five ounces and um we'll
get to the tricks of the trade later. But you
(14:53):
want your car to weigh that five ounces? Yes, you
don't want it to weigh four because faster cars or
heavier cars canna be fast. That's right, because of gravity
and mass, well sort of, I mean that technically a
heavier car it's it's all about weight distribution, it is.
But a heavier car is going to be subject to
the force of gravity more than a lighter car because
(15:15):
it has more more mass for gravity to exert an
effect on cars. Cannot be longer than seven inches. I
think initially they were a little bit longer than that,
but they settled on seven which is good. Uh. They
cannot be more than two and three quarters of an
inch wide, and the clearance of the car on the
track must be no more than three eighths of an inch.
(15:36):
And the clearance is very important because Pinewood Derby cars
are called rail cars. They ride along a central rail
where the car and the wheels straddle a rail that
goes underneath it. Right, it's not just in a lane
to bump back and forth. Yes, very good point. Uh.
And the last rule, of course, um we mentioned it's
(15:56):
all gravity fed. You can't have any starting device or
any uh CEO two cartridge or motor or anything. It's
it's just wheels guiding it down the track. If the
jet flames shoot out of the back of your Pinewood
Derby car, it's kind of get disqualified. You'll get some
wows of the crowd for sure. Well you'll also get
some wows if you carve a cool coke bottle or
(16:17):
make a NASCAR or general leaves a big one. Oh,
I'm sure. But what I basically found in researching this
is you can't have both. Um, you can either have
a really cool looking car or a really fast car,
because the faster ones are not very like great looking. No,
and a lot of people just go with a wedge
because the wedge is aerodynamic. It's a lot more aerodynamic
(16:40):
than there's the block. It's easy to make, and apparently
they're very fast. Usually that's right there. I saw one.
If you type in cool Pinewood Derby cars on a
Google image search, comes up with some cool Pinewood Derby cars.
But one of them is this kid holding his car.
It's like this weird reddish brown and has Spider's paint
it on it. He named it Derby. Death's my favorite
(17:04):
pine with Derby car. That's your favorite kid? Yeah? Um mine,
it would have just been me holding up my sort
of oddly shaped thing that says not as good as
your brother's. Um. You start off with um, either like
a balsa wood or um. What's the other kind of would?
They suggested? Pine pine? This is a little softer, easier
(17:25):
to carve that's the pine with Derby car. Oh well yeah,
that's true. But bosses I think lighter, So it is,
but again you don't necessarily want lighter. Well that's a
good point, thank you. But again you want the weight
distribution correct, so you may want the body lighter so
you can control that weight more. Yes, it's just a
little tip. No, that is a good point right there.
(17:46):
You want to control where the weight goes. That's right.
So yeah, maybe boss is the way to go. Well,
they do have the kits you can buy that are
fully uh stocked with everything you need. Or you can
go ala carte because there are a lot of companies
out there now that make um all manner of add
ons and special wheels and axles and all kinds of
(18:09):
things to make your car faster. Yeah, and you you
if you are building a Pinewood Derby racer right now,
and you're like, yeah, that sounds pretty great. I got
some money to spend on this thing. Um, you will
want to check your local council's rules because some of
them are like, nope, you can use nothing but what
comes in the official Pinewood Derby kit Um and other
(18:33):
places are right exactly, and now go sell some candy
after the Pinewood Derby is over. Um, then other places
are like, yeah, go nuts. Most places agreed, like you
can't send the kid off to a third party and
have a third party make your Pinewood Derby racer for
you and send it back. Oh yeah, no way. Other
(18:54):
places say that can't. Well no, that's the whole point.
It's just supposed to be like a parent kid activity
of learning about physics, engineering, building, working. Yeah, probably losing sportsmanship, yes,
not throwing a punch when you lose stuff like that.
And if you just basically buy a racer, I mean,
(19:17):
what kind of like villainous rich kid are you if
that's what you're you're doing at the Pineood Derby? You know, yeah,
you're what's his face from Pewee's Big Adventure? Oh man,
what is his name? Do you know it? I'm completely blanking.
I can picture him chewing that black gum. Yes, I
can picture him in that big bathtub swimming pool in
(19:38):
his home. Well, we'll figure it out. It will come
to one of us. I don't feel the need to
email because this will be weeks later. We got it,
We got to cover it. Um or you could be
the antagonist in the movie down in Derby Man. Yeah,
did you go to IMDb on that one? Very briefly?
Did you see the movie poster? That is everything you
(20:00):
need to know about that movie is captured in the poster. Yeah,
there's a film about a Pinewood derby two parents who
of course two fathers who were lifelong rivals. Yeah, that's
all you need to say. Well, was starting uh the
Boss from Ally McBeal. Yeah, Greg German. Yeah, I'm a
big German fan. But are you I think it's good?
(20:21):
He was great in that show. I never saw that show.
That was a good show. Wasn't he on the West
Wing to Uh? No, you're thinking of Bradley? Um, oh,
I like that guy. Yeah, great incentive a woman Bradley Cooper.
No not I you mean Whitford. Yes? His his His
best role though, seriously, was in Billy Madison. I never
(20:43):
saw that either. What right? Yeah, you gotta see that one.
Happen to Gilmore are classic films. I've seen some of
Happy Gilmour For some reason, those Adam Sandler and the
Chris Farley movies. I never really saw what I didn't
see Black Sheep, Well black it's fine, but you never
saw Tommy Boy parts of it. I know, I don't
(21:06):
know what was going on. One are those like when
I was in college or just right after? But yeah maybe, yeah,
that was like a dark being a little too sophisticated
for those you know, No, not at all. They really
are great movies. Like if if you don't like them,
you're just being a snob. Like they're just funny movies
that anybody can enjoy on just the basic level. I
(21:27):
can assure you I didn't avoid them out of snobbery.
But um, I think that was just like a weird
period where I didn't see many movies. You were just
watching nothing but Fellini, No, I don't know. I don't
know what were you doing instead? I got just watching TV.
I gotta find out what year they came out. I
would say probably between four and nineties seven. Yeah that
(21:50):
was college. And UM, I don't know. Okay, we'll just
leave it. I just didn't see him all right. Where
are we we are at? The Oh, I've got one. Um,
if you do, um, if your counsel does allow outside helper,
you'll if you can buy other parts, because a lot
(22:13):
of times it's like, no, you have to use these
but some of these companies have figured out ways around it.
Like your Pinewood Derby car is going to be inspected conceivably,
especially if it's really fast and it's a winning car,
They're gonna really look at it to make sure you're
not cheating. One of the ways that you can make
your car faster is with wheels. Lighter wheels, so less
(22:35):
mass equals less friction, I believe, and um, so they
spin faster and it moves faster, right call onion skin
wheels right now, Like you usually can't use those, but
some of these companies offer ones that outwardly look the
exact same. It has all the markings and everything, but
they've removed a lot of the mass. So they bought
(22:56):
like official boy Scout Pinewood Derby wheels and have altered
them so and then sell them for like thirty five
bucks for a set thirty five bucks to cheat at
Pinewo Derby. Basically, yeah, yeah, it's so disheartening. It is
a little disheartening also because even if it is legal
(23:16):
or allowed, it's like, um, I guaranteed all the kid's
parents are gonna be willing to spend thirty five bucks
on like aftermarket wheels that have had some of the
mass removed to make the cargo faster. Yeah, or the
kid who can't afford that kind of stuff. Anyway, it's
not on a level playing field, you know. That's what
I mean. That just thinks. Yeah, well, I mean beyond
the parents saying they shouldn't pay for that, Like you
(23:38):
know what I mean, let's talk about the track. The
starting gate is generally about four ft high because and
I thought this is adorable, because that's about it. That's
a good height for a little cup scout, like it
made sense. So they didn't want to make it so
high that you know, they couldn't do it. Although um,
usually the kid is not actually placing the car. It's
(24:00):
UM an official that's doing that. Yeah, the contains are
usually too sticky. Yeah, I got like lollipopcum all over
the um. And that's another reason why you should mark
UM the front car, the front of your car, in
the back of your car, because if you don't do
like the best job at the aerodynamics, you might not
be able to tell the difference between the front and
the back and it might not be you placing it.
(24:20):
So just put a little like F and a b
on the underside to make sure they know what they're doing.
It'll either be you placing the car, the official placing
the car, or the Grand Marshal of the race, Greg
German placing the car as part of his duties. So
it's four ft high, about thirty two to forty five
(24:41):
ft long UM. The number of lanes are from two
to six, although they talk about the semi legendary twelve
lane model, which was probably pretty boss. Sure, I say, like,
speed this thing up, get as many lanes going as
you can. I know that. You know, you could like
have ten thousand scouts racing with the twelve laner in
an hour. You know, Chuck, this track thing is kind
(25:03):
of like, say you have a twelve lane track. Depending
on the type of race you run, it could actually
make the whole thing go a lot longer because a
lot of people say these tracks, some of them are great,
Like there are there's companies that do make tracks, like
one's called micro Wizard. I think, and this get this
guy came up with this company to build like really
awesome aluminum tracks with UM timers that can UM that
(25:28):
that are sensitive to I think to ten thousands of
a second UM and so this guy is making these
really great tracks, but not all tracks are created like that.
That whole set ups like two grand. So if you
have maybe an older wooden track or something like that,
some critics of those kind of tracks say, well, then
everybody needs to run a race and each one of
(25:50):
those slots, and then you take the combined times to
come up with an average, because some slots are going
to be better than others. So if you had like
a twelve a twelve lane track, oh yeah, you would
have a very long day ahead of you. So that
would not speed things up. It would do the opposite
of speeding things up, all right, So I'd smash ten
(26:10):
of those lanes and at least stump atom. Like you said,
most of the really nice tracks are aluminum now, although
they can still be wood. Uh. Sometimes the wood is
surfaced and like Mason eyed or something like really slick
um surface to make it as fast as possible, because
that's what it's all about. So we're gonna get down
(26:31):
to business what everyone's been waiting for, and tell you guys,
how to make your regulation Pinewood Derby car as fast
as possible. Right after this, So Chuck, we happened to
(26:59):
go onto Boys Life Magazine today a couple of times
and every day, alright is our homepage. Uh, and we
looked at ways to make your Pinewood Derby car faster.
One of the articles you found was from Mars Curiosity
rover engineer who he and his son Um are into scouting,
(27:20):
and they made a Pinewood Derby car and they decided
to apply the scientific method to figuring out ways to
make it faster. And this dude came up with this, um,
these these pointers. Basically what is his name, His name's
Mark Rober. He's a Nasha NASA engineer. Yeah, and he
and his son are to be thanked for these pointers.
(27:41):
All right. Well, speaking of point um, the first thing
you want to do is avoid a pointed nose on
your car. Good. You wanted to be flat um across
the front because um, sometimes it will affect how it gets,
how it reads across the finish line, which you don't want.
I saw a hammerhead shark Pinewood Derby. It was off. Yeah,
that's a pretty good example of what you want up front,
(28:03):
that flat nose. Um. And the other thing too, is
it may affect the way it rest on that pint
at the start of the race. Yeah, because if it's
cocked off to one side or the other, that car
is gonna hit that middle rail and it's gonna be
friction city and you're gonna go home crying in your
in your pillow. That's right. Um. You want the weight,
(28:23):
like we mentioned at the rear of the car, um
about within an inch of that rear axle, and proper
weight distribution accounts for about thirty six percent. I thought
you said, oh no, those aerodynamics. Yeah, I was gonna
totally nail you on that one the way. That's huge.
And Um, what that means is you've got more potential
(28:45):
energy because the center of mass is higher up on
the track, right, So so you know, like with our
water slides episode, the higher up you go in the stairs,
the more potential energy you have. So even that extra
like half an inch of weight distribution towards the back
higher up, the more acceleration you're going to have on
(29:06):
your car. Yeah, because if you if you think about
the track like once it flattens out at the bottom.
If the weight is on the frontier car and you've
got two cars side by side and the weights on
the front that one's already done, and the one with
the weight at the rear it's still pushing it and
that extra couple of inches is gonna make a big
diff good point. And you, um, you might say, well
(29:28):
then I want to put my weight all the way
on the rear of the car. No, no, no, you
don't want to because that means that, um, the front
might pop a wheelie the whole way down. Again, it'll
look cool, it'll be a crowd pleaser, but you're probably
not gonna win that way. I would totally be a
crowd pleaser because I know I couldn't win the speed portion,
so I would just make one that like pops wheelies
(29:50):
and does cool things. Um. Maybe that's why I was
never cup Scott. I was thinking outside the box. You know.
Um maximum weight, like we said, you want it to
be that five ounce is very big. Oh. They recommend
baking the wood block first. Start to get the all
the XX moisture out of that. Bake it two fifty
(30:14):
for a couple of hours, two hours, and it should
um make your block of wood that much lighter. Because again,
you want weight, you want the full five ounces, but
you want to control. You want to control where you
put that weight, not mother Nature, not God or Earth
or anything like that. You want to control where that
weight goes. Yeah, and um get you know you want
(30:36):
your parents help with all this. Don't go throwing wood
in the oven and crank in it up because it
can catch on fire. You don't want that either. Well,
yeah to fifty All right, here's one. Oh man, I
know you're gonna talk about the three wheeler. I don't
know that wasn't it. You need to check again with
your rules. But apparently in some leagues they allow you
and this is a very common thing now if they
(30:57):
allow it to have one wheel not on the track
at all, like the front left of the front right.
Why would you want to do that? Well because less friction. Um,
so they say about one sixty of an inch higher,
so it never actually touches the track and that will
give you a nine speed increase. Right, you only have
three wheels touching the track at once never Yeah, um,
(31:18):
pretty smart, but also probably cheating if they don't allow it. Yeah,
you want to check your rules again, because I mean
that would suck to go to the trouble of measuring
that out and um being like I'm gonna win and
being disqualified because you didn't read the rules, Hope Stash,
what were you excited about me saying? So a little
more basic than that, but also very thrilling, is these
(31:39):
things ride rails. You don't want your wheels to touch
the rails. You don't want your car to touch the rails.
So you want as true and straight in alignment as possible,
so it goes straight down with as little friction as possible. Right,
that's the old thinking. Okay, well let me finish my
old thing. So that means you want the straightest axles possible.
(32:00):
And this is a really cool way to figure out
if you have straight axles or not. There's gonna be
several axles that come in a package in your kit,
and you want to figure out which ones are the straightest.
You can't really tell just by looking at it. That's
what you do is you get an electric drill, right,
and you if ideally, you put it in a vice
gript so it doesn't move at all. And you take
(32:21):
your axles and you put them in the drill like
a drill bit, and you turn the drill on and
if the axle wobbles, it's not straight. The axles that
wobble the least as they're spinning around the in the
drill are the straightest ones. And those are the two
that you want to use, or the four that you
want to use. It would be too those are the
two that you want to use. Yeah, and uh, not
only that, but once you find your two, um, you
(32:42):
want to polish them, like, don't just throw it in
there because it's a little burrs and nicks and things
that are going to slow your car down. So they say,
again with your parents, either put it in that drill
or a drill press is even better, and just spin
the nail and get a sandpaper and saying those things
down and keep going with that grit until you get
to like two thousand grit. And you polished that axle
(33:05):
to like where it's almost like a mirror. So some
parents are gonna come home and they're like seven year
old kids going to have a block of wood in
the oven on two fifty with a belt stander, and
they're gonna say, Johns and Chuck told me to no, no, no,
I always get your parents help with this stuff. Again,
(33:25):
that's the whole point anyway, activities together. Um so I
mentioned that was the old thinking. This blew my mind
the idea of bent axles and rail riding. So that's
the latest and greatest with the axles they recommend now,
and they make these devices, these little jigs that will
do it for you to bend where the wheel actually
(33:46):
connects about uh two of a bend, so it actually
reduces friction and makes alignment easier. This makes sense to me.
So what you've got then is your front tie front
tires angled inward and your back tires angled out, and
that makes what you want, like if you put it
(34:07):
on just a flat surface and rolled it, you want
it over the course of like ten ft to steer
about an inch to the left or right, because rail
riding is the new fastest way to raise your car.
So I don't get that well it what they said
was is this is the video I watched. This how's
explained to me at least is um once you get
to the bottom and level out. No track is perfect
(34:30):
and even if you have your car perfectly aligned, it's
gonna start wobbling on the track and slow you down.
So the idea is if you have that one front
wheel angled in it the right way and your back
wheels angled the right way, you'll actually touch the rail
and use the rail as a guide to keep you
as straight as possible. So the friction that is lost
(34:53):
is overcome by how straight it is and the lack
of wobble. And they call it rail riding and that's
like the newest thing to do, which goes counter to
anything you would think. And and straight car racing, which
is like to make everything perfectly straight so it doesn't move. Uh,
sort of blew my mind. Be a little mind blowing, man,
(35:13):
I'm with you. Um, graphite is something that you want
to add. It's a dry lubricant and um, that'll add
about seven percent to your speed. Pretty much everybody allows that.
The graphite. Yeah, and everything I saw says just to
get whatever kind of graphite. The the cheap stuff is
just as good as the Yeah, it's all a big
marketing scam apparently, because they said how to graphite graphite,
(35:35):
its graphite. So they'll put like, you know, super speed
graphite and charge you more. It's not like the cheap
stuff has like glue or seashells mixed in with it,
you know. So those wheels you talked about, Um, lider
weight wheels will account for about increase in speed if
it's allowed in your league. Yep. You want your wheel
(35:58):
base to be as far part of possible from what
I understand, Yeah, totally, Like you don't want the wheels
up in the center of the car. That'd be weird
looking anyway, it would be plus Apparently it also takes
more energy to steer it off of the rail. But
I guess that doesn't apply anymore if you're rail racing,
rail riding, Yeah, rail writing. Uh what else? I got
(36:20):
nothing else? Man, you got nothing else? I got nothing else.
I only have one more little thing. Um. And this
is about the you know what, what obviously is going
to happen in any competition in the United States. Parents
are gonna get involved and they're gonna become big jerks. Um.
It was the whole basis for that movie, I think.
And I went to the boy Scouts site. I guess
(36:43):
it was a Boy's Life magazine site. And there's a
big problem now with like who made your pine with
Derby car? And they said a big red flag is
when mom or dad comes in holding the car and
the kid isn't even holding it, and they'll always say
give it to your kid and we'll deal with him.
Um or guess you know girl scouts are doing now
or her and um, let's get to the bottom of
(37:04):
this and who actually built this thing? And while I
do point out that they take them into the other
room and see if they can break them, right, Yeah,
they have to detail like every single thing they did.
They to try to get around this because they do
acknowledge that you know, these are like seven and eight
year olds and you all that you can't use a
(37:25):
band saw if you're seven or eight. Oh, I guess
it's pretty obvious when a parent has had the lead
on all this. Yeah, rather than taking you know, a
supporting role. Yeah, I think you're supposed to. So that
they just had different parents chime in on what they
do and what they've done and what works in their leagues.
And um they said a lot of times that they'll, um,
(37:46):
the kid will design the car and then like mom
or dad will cut the wood and then the kid
will like assemble the wheels and stuff like that. Um,
so you know, the kid plays a part in it,
but the adult is doing like the dangerous stuff. Um
some uh, some some places to have dad's divisions, so
like the dad can just build his own car and
raise another dad. Well, yeah, there's like whole racing leagues
(38:09):
that are adult leagues technically not Pinewood Derby because Pinewood
Derby's like boy Scouts only, um or Scouts only. But
there's like non boy Scout affiliated adult racing leagues of
this stuff. Yeaht apparently at the Pinewood Derby though, they'll
also have dad racism just so you know, hey, you're
you haven't matured to the point where you can just
(38:30):
participate as a father, so you can raise your other
dads if you really need you. That's pretty great. Uh.
Some people have car building days where they all get
together as a big group into it, which is kind
of fun and that ensures that it's more level playing field.
And then they this one this is my favorite one.
Where is this? I don't think it said where this
(38:51):
was this one? Boy Scout troop gives out awards and
categories like you had originality, craftsmanship, finish. I think that's common.
And then they'll give an award car most likely made
by a parent, and so it's sort of a shame
of public shaming. Yeah, humiliation, Yeah, but I think I
would humiliate the kid too. What they what if they
gave you, like a patch to you just earned your
(39:12):
patch in public humiliation? Right, this just got a red
face Scout on it. Yeah, I don't know. That seems
like it would totally embarrass the kids. It's like rubbing
your face and your poop. That's exactly what it's like.
What else you got? I got nothing else? I got
one more thing. So apparently, as far as scale goes,
(39:34):
some of these Pinewood Derby cars get up to twenty
miles an hour, and if you scaled it up to
a normal sized car, that would be in the area
of two hundred miles an hour. Yeah. Wow, I think
so pretty neat pound for pound, they go pretty quick.
So I guess if you're interested in the pine with Derby,
go join the Cub Scouts or Boy Scouts or look
for a just a recreational league in your town. Right
(39:56):
kind of made me want to build one. Oh check,
there's nothing stopping you. Yeah, well, actually me, because after
about five minutes I was like, yeah, it's fun to
read about though. Well, if you want to read more
about Pineo Derby's you can type those words into the
search bar how stuff works dot Com. You can also
go onto Stuff you should Know dot com and find
the podcast page for this episode, and it will bring
(40:19):
up all sorts of cool links. Uh. And I said, uh,
search bar in there somewhere, which means it's time for
a listener mail. I'm gonna call this um alan Alda experience.
That's the second alan all the appearance in this episode
that you can't have enough alan Alda references. You know,
(40:42):
the Onion went on a little tear where like alan
Alda made an appearance and every single one of their
slides really Yeah, Dear Charles, Joshua and Jerome, I want
to share a quick story about the time I met
alan Alda. I had wanted to meet him for most
of my life. Like Chuck it, it was a goal.
While other kids were watching Full How, I was watching
Mash and Dragnet, so that was like me too. I
(41:04):
never watch Full House, which is coming back, by the way,
did you hear that? No with the original cast? They're
remaking it? No? I think Uh, I think it's the
original cast. Yeah, it's the original cast, but it may
concentrate on the kids version of their house or something.
I don't know. Who cares, right, I work as a
(41:25):
producer for a radio morning show in in Pittsburgh. My
station sponsor a series of talks in which Mr Alda
was a part of and I got a chance to
meet him at a dinner and um, shake his hand
and hand a copy of the book to him of
his book to sign. And when I went to do this,
a quote gentleman end quote who I can best describe
as a forty five year old child. He looks like
(41:47):
he comes from old money cut in front of me.
I know if that guy's pine would Derby car would
be like he said, he think Dudley Moore and Arthur
but without the charm. Uh. He looked like he had
a scotch in his hand. He slurred the question was
hot lips hula hand? Really hot? God? A bunch of
this guy and all the handle the situation gracefully because
(42:08):
he's Alan Alda. And after a few more embarrassing questions,
a guy left and I got to introduce myself properly,
and a little bit later I went up to him
again to get a formal picture and he remembered my name.
I was so excited I didn't get too um. I
didn't write to brag or make you jealous, Chuck, but
I've been trying to find a reason to write you
guys for six years. The talkie gave was very compelling.
He talked about living life to the fullest, about his
(42:30):
near death experience on a mountaintop in Chile and how
it changed his life. Uh. And then he recommends Alan
alda memoir which I've also heard as great. So you
can just look that up. I heard it's really good,
but they're gonna read it. Yeah, this type of a
few random words into the search bar and it should
bring that up. I think Alan all the memoir. Um.
So that's how I met him. And next on my
life goal list just to meet Josh and Chuck. So
(42:53):
that is from Andy Lindberg, who's a radio radio producer
like Jerry. Yeah, in Pittsburgh, p A. They run into
each other at the convention every once in a while.
How do you stay awake when you guys are doing
their stuff? I don't know. How do you stay awake? Hearty? Hard?
Are getting anything else? Sick of radio producers making fun
(43:14):
of us? If you want to get in touch with Chuck,
me or Jerry or the three of us, or any
combination thereof, you can tweet to us at s Y
s K Podcast. You can join us on Facebook dot
com slash stuff you Should Know. You can send us
an email to Stuff Podcast at how stuff Works dot com, and,
as always, join us at our home on the web,
Stuff you Should Know dot com. For more on this
(43:41):
and thousands of other topics, is it how stuff works
dot com
Welcome to you Stuff you Should Know from House Stuff
Works dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm
Josh Clark. There's Charles w Chuck Bryant. Jerry's over there
with her timer wagging her finger, which means it's time
to start. Stuff you should know. The podcast just got
(00:22):
out of ruler. She ready to wrap us on the knuckles. Yeah,
you can get out of line. It's like a nun
it's right and Chuck. Before we get started, I want
to tell everybody they can follow us on Twitter at
s Y S Kid Podcast. Oh yeah, they can join
us on Facebook dot com slash Stuff you should know.
Why are we going backwards? Huh? Okay, if you want
to send us an email, you can send it to
Stuff Podcast at how Stuff Works dot com. Yeah, we
(00:45):
have a beautiful old website called Stuff you should Know
dot com where all sorts of other neat stuff happens too.
All right, so this listener mail I'm just gonna call.
Uh oh wait, sorry, you gotta save it and saving
it Chuck. Yes, were you in boy Scouts or cub Scouts? Nope?
I went to one cub Scout meeting and uh I
(01:06):
didn't go back because The very first meeting I was
at was there beginning of their candy sale, the ritual
sacrifice now at the beginning of their candy sale, and
I just didn't As a little kid for some reason,
I didn't like my first meeting them saying, here's a
bunch of candy, go sell it. Yeah, but you know
they front you're a bunch of candy. They let you
walk away with a box of can It turned me off.
(01:28):
And I'm not knocking it. It's a great organization, but
I just never went back. I can't imagine. It's not
the best one to start out on. Plus I was
I was a Cub. I did cub scouty things just
in life because you know, it was a big into
camping and stuff. And I was taught wilderness survival at
a young age, so I was like, I was my own,
had my own scouting troop. Your parents just dropped you
(01:49):
off in the woods. Once back, Yeah, it all worked out.
Made my way back about a year later. Yeah, there
was none, no worse for the wear. So you never
made a pine with Derby car hunt, No, Well, I've
never made a pine with Derby car. But in Industrial
arts class I made the the CEO two racing cars,
remember those, yeah, which sort of it's sort of like
(02:10):
the Pine with Derby, but it's powered by noxious gasses?
Is it not just gas? Now it's actually CEO two. Yeah,
I think it might be noxious though it's not obnoxious,
but it's noxious and then it will kill you. Well,
it's a kind of a funny story actually, I and
my brother one of course, because he's my brother cheering
(02:34):
him on. Now. He won, uh, the school, and then
he won county, and then he went to state for
the and I don't think he won state, No, but
he did place most handsome. He did most Handsome Racer.
And then I, of course, like everything else, I tried
to copy my brother. I'm still doing today, and um
sure I am and he um and I tried to
(02:56):
copy his design and mine just turned out a little
crooked and not quite a straight and um, I didn't
even win in my class, not alone the school man.
So that just goes to show you my brother is
better at everything than me. That's a great story. His
was awesome, man, that that thing flew, and mine was
like knocking against the track and was missing a tooth. Yeah,
(03:18):
it was a pale impression. Pale impersonation. But that is
a great lesson. You gotta forge your own way. That's right,
you know, my ugly little car. That's that's the lesson
of this Pinewood Derby episode. You have to create your
own Pinewood Derby car, and not just figuratively but metaphorically
(03:39):
as well. Well, what's the Pine with Derby? I think
some people there's a lot of people that are like,
oh my god, this is the best, and then the
other of your like, what so the Pine with Derby
is the nation's premier gravity racing event. Yeah. It takes
place around the country around this time, I think, right,
does it beat street luge? Uh? It's a great point.
(04:03):
I said, this is the second best. Okay, miniature gravity racing.
What about many street luge man? Um? And yeah, I
think around It takes place around this time of year.
Oh is it? Yeah? Cub scouts and boy scouts around
the country, around the world. Are they into it now?
To make little wooden cars um and race them? And
(04:29):
it uses nothing but gravity, the force of gravity, little
angular momentum, reduction of friction, that kind of thing to
see whose car is fastest? Yeah. So um, we'll get
in to the details in the history, but it's basically,
you know, like you said, a track that starts on
a hill and it has a little, um call it
a pin, but it's like a little stick basically holds
(04:50):
the car in place right at the at the front,
and then they pull a lever and those sticks drop
and then um, it's like the starting gate and then
it rolls. Because anyone who listened to our slinky episode.
When the cars are up there pressed against the starting pin,
they've got tons of potential energy. Then right when that
(05:11):
that starting pin has removed, that potential energy turns to
kinetic energy and gravity pulls them downward to the tune
of like twenty miles or so. But the cool thing
about Pinewood Derby Racing is that all of the UM
cars start out the exact same They're blocks of wood
with the same wheels, the same axles, And it's up
(05:31):
to the cub scouts in their moms to uh craft
this thing, to to make it slightly different enough that
it wins the race. It beats these other cars that
were also the same kinds of blocks of wood before. Yes,
or uh, you're not so concerned with winning and you
just want a cool looking car and you want to
(05:51):
have a good experience with your parents. That was me
with my car, the Pinewood Derby car I made with
my Did you do it? Really? One most creative? There's
a coke bottle, No way, and I like you a
real coke bottle. You got the piece of wood and
carved into a coke bottle. Yeah, the would, okay because
other people, you know, they can there's all sorts of
(06:11):
things you can do now, Yeah, but you couldn't use
a coke bottle and do it. You'd be disqualified on
the spot and maybe laughed out of the place. No,
there's like there's different versions now like there there can
be like the regular hardcore race and then the one
that's a little more fun where you can use different Uh. Oh,
I got you, Yeah, I got you. But I mean
that's not the origin. The origin was, like you said,
(06:31):
just straight up woodblocks. So and let's talk about the
origin of this year. Well did you win that? I
want to hear about your one most creative at all?
So you were into just the cool looking thing. Yeah,
as a cub scout, a boy scout cub scouts, did
you boy scout? You've had enough I did. Actually, um,
my dad was the dead parent. That's nice, but I
(06:54):
quit mid season and he continued on as the dead Parents. Really,
there's more than one awkward boy Scout meeting at my
house where like I just went hung out, you like,
wander through eating a twinky. Yeah. My dad was like,
I can't believe this interesting, so he stuck it out.
Yeah that's kind of admirable. I guess I had a
thing where I, um, they the Cub Scouts teach and
(07:17):
Boy Scouts teach that you just respect your elders as
a rule of thumb. Well, I've met too many elderly
people who I didn't feel deserved respect across the board,
and that I disputed this idea enough that I left. Wow, yeah,
that's pretty awesome. That was why I left because I
had to sell candy. You left because there were a
(07:38):
bunch of jerky old people in your community. I just
didn't think that everyone deserves blank respect. I think you
earn respect absolutely. You know, Hey, that's a pretty forward
thinking thing for a little young Josh. You just didn't
want to go. No, it really was that you're like
the meetings with the same night at the eight team.
So yeah, there was one meeting where I just sat
there and watched the eight team really loud. Well, my
(07:59):
dad and the rest of the Scouts are trying to meet.
That's pretty good stuff. So yes, my dad and I won.
I think it's most creative category for the coke bottle
at Southwick Mall and Toledo, Ohio, that's where they had
the racist It's pretty funny. And you still drink like
a gazillion Cokes a day, not cokes well, Cooke zero
or whatever. Yeah, I've tried to limit it. I don't
(08:21):
drink a gazillion. I would say I drink a lot
of water and coffee too. You just you're you get
beveraged up like no one I've ever seen. Now. It's weird,
you know. It's like I constantly have to be drinking something. Yeah,
I don't get it. Hey, that's your thing. Huh, it's
no big deal. It's not like you're like downing bottles
of vodka all day long. Just red bull um. All right,
(08:43):
So you want to talk about the history of this thing,
let's don Murphy. May nine is when the first Pinewood
Derby was held in southern California, Manhattan Beach, California, which
is where you means, and my friend Molly is from.
You can be from worst places in the world. You
know who else pretty sweet either is from or lives
(09:05):
in Manhattan Beach. I looked this up who Kevin Nealon,
Don Dokin uh and then some other people too. I
think our buddies, uh Luke and Catherine Ryan live in
Manhattan Beach. Oh do they? That is a nice town.
It's like a small town feel on the California's coast,
(09:25):
like on the boardwalk that connects like all the other towns.
Pretty nice. That's where the Lost Boys live? Was it? No?
I think they were like Santa Cruz or something like. Yeah.
I think they were a little more north all right,
so very nice history of Manhattan Beach residents. Don Murphy
was a cub Scout leader for Pack to eighty and
(09:47):
um he had he had some kids that wanted to
because there's this other race called the soapbox derby. This
is when you actually put your child in this thing
to be injured and put and push him down a hill.
But he had some kids. You have to be a
certain age to do that, and um, his boys were like, Dad,
I want to be in the soapbox Derby, and he said,
well son, you're too young. So he tried to think
(10:09):
of something that you could do together with his boys
and came up with the Pinewood Derby, which is a
pretty cool idea. Yeah you know. Yeah, it's basically making
a soapbox derby racer too small for human to fit
and be injured in. It's correct. Yeah, much safer, I
would imagine. So. Um. Apparently, like at this first one,
they pulled out all the stops immediately. Um, they came
(10:32):
up with a regulation wood blocks, wheels, and axles that
everybody had to use the same things. Right. The axles
are just nails, yeah, but they had wooden struts that
the nails went into too. Um, And the they came
up with a pretty cool track, like a thirty two
or forty something foot track. The first one was thirty
(10:53):
one okay. And then but they also used like old
doorbells to create like, um timekeeper, so whichever car passed
the thing first would set off a light in that
lane above that lane. He's got a little more advanced
since then, Yes, I mean that's that's that's pretty advanced
(11:15):
for the first one. Yeah, not bad for the early
nineteen fifties. No, and so the first this first one,
I'm at three in Manhattan Beach. Um. Apparently it was
just such a total hit that the guy who invented
at Don Murphy was like, this is some this is
a thing. Yeah, how can I make money on it?
Apparently he didn't. Now he didn't, but Boil. A lot
(11:35):
of people have since then, which we'll get to as well.
A lot of um entrepreneurial fathers were like, hey, I
can make some dough on this by designing these things. Yeah,
good for them, all right, you know so um Don
Murphy with the other route and so I don't want
(11:56):
to share this with the world. This is my creation. Um,
and I'm going to get in touch with the Boy
Scouts of America and say, hey, guys, I've got this thing.
And the Boy Scouts said, that's great. We're sending out
Boys Life Magazine to cover this. It's gonna be hot
off the presses. Remember that um an airplane where the
(12:16):
little uh the kids reading Now the nun is reading
Boys Life Magazine and the little boys reading Nuns Life
Magazine next to that's pretty funny. So Boys Life Magazine
is like the official magazine of boy Scouts, right, and
they came out and covered it, and I think nineteen
fifty four the next year, but it was just kind
of like a little blurb a little right up one
(12:38):
page or it didn't really get the extent of this across. Yeah,
and um by ve they had over three hundred people
racing for the championships in l A's Griffith Park. And
um now, I think since its inception, over fifty million
kids have done this and a ninety million including parents,
(12:58):
which is a little lazy to me. They are just
like they're just had two parents per kids. Object a few,
let's make it ninety million. But yeah, it's become a
huge hit and a tradition that lives on today. Um
and kind of the same way. I mean, they've gotten
way more um involved in making these things as fast
(13:19):
as possible, but the general gist of it and the
rules are about the same. Yeah, and let's talk about
the rules right after this break, So chuck to make
(13:43):
these things fair. All pinewood derby cars start off the
exact scence, little woodblock, some regulation wheels and axles, right,
and then it's up to you, the scout, to make
it your own and um, this article funny enough says
that aerodynamics don't really play a role. That is not
the case at all. No, they play um uh if
(14:07):
you want to speak scientifically, and eleven percent um reduction
and speed just using the wood block. Yeah, if you
if you make it more aerodynamic, So it's um, it matters,
but it doesn't matter quite as much as you think
it might, right, but it does have some effect. Absolutely
eleven and so um, there are some some guidelines to
(14:32):
making a soapbox derby racer Pinewood man, it's gonna get
me all episode. That's okay, Just remember soapbox equals death
of child, pinewood equals fun for child. Great, Okay, Okay,
I think I got it now. That's right. Um, no
car can weigh more than five ounces and um we'll
get to the tricks of the trade later. But you
(14:53):
want your car to weigh that five ounces? Yes, you
don't want it to weigh four because faster cars or
heavier cars canna be fast. That's right, because of gravity
and mass, well sort of, I mean that technically a
heavier car it's it's all about weight distribution, it is.
But a heavier car is going to be subject to
the force of gravity more than a lighter car because
(15:15):
it has more more mass for gravity to exert an
effect on cars. Cannot be longer than seven inches. I
think initially they were a little bit longer than that,
but they settled on seven which is good. Uh. They
cannot be more than two and three quarters of an
inch wide, and the clearance of the car on the
track must be no more than three eighths of an inch.
(15:36):
And the clearance is very important because Pinewood Derby cars
are called rail cars. They ride along a central rail
where the car and the wheels straddle a rail that
goes underneath it. Right, it's not just in a lane
to bump back and forth. Yes, very good point. Uh.
And the last rule, of course, um we mentioned it's
(15:56):
all gravity fed. You can't have any starting device or
any uh CEO two cartridge or motor or anything. It's
it's just wheels guiding it down the track. If the
jet flames shoot out of the back of your Pinewood
Derby car, it's kind of get disqualified. You'll get some
wows of the crowd for sure. Well you'll also get
some wows if you carve a cool coke bottle or
(16:17):
make a NASCAR or general leaves a big one. Oh,
I'm sure. But what I basically found in researching this
is you can't have both. Um, you can either have
a really cool looking car or a really fast car,
because the faster ones are not very like great looking. No,
and a lot of people just go with a wedge
because the wedge is aerodynamic. It's a lot more aerodynamic
(16:40):
than there's the block. It's easy to make, and apparently
they're very fast. Usually that's right there. I saw one.
If you type in cool Pinewood Derby cars on a
Google image search, comes up with some cool Pinewood Derby cars.
But one of them is this kid holding his car.
It's like this weird reddish brown and has Spider's paint
it on it. He named it Derby. Death's my favorite
(17:04):
pine with Derby car. That's your favorite kid? Yeah? Um mine,
it would have just been me holding up my sort
of oddly shaped thing that says not as good as
your brother's. Um. You start off with um, either like
a balsa wood or um. What's the other kind of would?
They suggested? Pine pine? This is a little softer, easier
(17:25):
to carve that's the pine with Derby car. Oh well yeah,
that's true. But bosses I think lighter, So it is,
but again you don't necessarily want lighter. Well that's a
good point, thank you. But again you want the weight
distribution correct, so you may want the body lighter so
you can control that weight more. Yes, it's just a
little tip. No, that is a good point right there.
(17:46):
You want to control where the weight goes. That's right.
So yeah, maybe boss is the way to go. Well,
they do have the kits you can buy that are
fully uh stocked with everything you need. Or you can
go ala carte because there are a lot of companies
out there now that make um all manner of add
ons and special wheels and axles and all kinds of
(18:09):
things to make your car faster. Yeah, and you you
if you are building a Pinewood Derby racer right now,
and you're like, yeah, that sounds pretty great. I got
some money to spend on this thing. Um, you will
want to check your local council's rules because some of
them are like, nope, you can use nothing but what
comes in the official Pinewood Derby kit Um and other
(18:33):
places are right exactly, and now go sell some candy
after the Pinewood Derby is over. Um, then other places
are like, yeah, go nuts. Most places agreed, like you
can't send the kid off to a third party and
have a third party make your Pinewood Derby racer for
you and send it back. Oh yeah, no way. Other
(18:54):
places say that can't. Well no, that's the whole point.
It's just supposed to be like a parent kid activity
of learning about physics, engineering, building, working. Yeah, probably losing sportsmanship, yes,
not throwing a punch when you lose stuff like that.
And if you just basically buy a racer, I mean,
(19:17):
what kind of like villainous rich kid are you if
that's what you're you're doing at the Pineood Derby? You know, yeah,
you're what's his face from Pewee's Big Adventure? Oh man,
what is his name? Do you know it? I'm completely blanking.
I can picture him chewing that black gum. Yes, I
can picture him in that big bathtub swimming pool in
(19:38):
his home. Well, we'll figure it out. It will come
to one of us. I don't feel the need to
email because this will be weeks later. We got it,
We got to cover it. Um or you could be
the antagonist in the movie down in Derby Man. Yeah,
did you go to IMDb on that one? Very briefly?
Did you see the movie poster? That is everything you
(20:00):
need to know about that movie is captured in the poster. Yeah,
there's a film about a Pinewood derby two parents who
of course two fathers who were lifelong rivals. Yeah, that's
all you need to say. Well, was starting uh the
Boss from Ally McBeal. Yeah, Greg German. Yeah, I'm a
big German fan. But are you I think it's good?
(20:21):
He was great in that show. I never saw that show.
That was a good show. Wasn't he on the West
Wing to Uh? No, you're thinking of Bradley? Um, oh,
I like that guy. Yeah, great incentive a woman Bradley Cooper.
No not I you mean Whitford. Yes? His his His
best role though, seriously, was in Billy Madison. I never
(20:43):
saw that either. What right? Yeah, you gotta see that one.
Happen to Gilmore are classic films. I've seen some of
Happy Gilmour For some reason, those Adam Sandler and the
Chris Farley movies. I never really saw what I didn't
see Black Sheep, Well black it's fine, but you never
saw Tommy Boy parts of it. I know, I don't
(21:06):
know what was going on. One are those like when
I was in college or just right after? But yeah maybe, yeah,
that was like a dark being a little too sophisticated
for those you know, No, not at all. They really
are great movies. Like if if you don't like them,
you're just being a snob. Like they're just funny movies
that anybody can enjoy on just the basic level. I
(21:27):
can assure you I didn't avoid them out of snobbery.
But um, I think that was just like a weird
period where I didn't see many movies. You were just
watching nothing but Fellini, No, I don't know. I don't
know what were you doing instead? I got just watching TV.
I gotta find out what year they came out. I
would say probably between four and nineties seven. Yeah that
(21:50):
was college. And UM, I don't know. Okay, we'll just
leave it. I just didn't see him all right. Where
are we we are at? The Oh, I've got one. Um,
if you do, um, if your counsel does allow outside helper,
you'll if you can buy other parts, because a lot
(22:13):
of times it's like, no, you have to use these
but some of these companies have figured out ways around it.
Like your Pinewood Derby car is going to be inspected conceivably,
especially if it's really fast and it's a winning car,
They're gonna really look at it to make sure you're
not cheating. One of the ways that you can make
your car faster is with wheels. Lighter wheels, so less
(22:35):
mass equals less friction, I believe, and um, so they
spin faster and it moves faster, right call onion skin
wheels right now, Like you usually can't use those, but
some of these companies offer ones that outwardly look the
exact same. It has all the markings and everything, but
they've removed a lot of the mass. So they bought
(22:56):
like official boy Scout Pinewood Derby wheels and have altered
them so and then sell them for like thirty five
bucks for a set thirty five bucks to cheat at
Pinewo Derby. Basically, yeah, yeah, it's so disheartening. It is
a little disheartening also because even if it is legal
(23:16):
or allowed, it's like, um, I guaranteed all the kid's
parents are gonna be willing to spend thirty five bucks
on like aftermarket wheels that have had some of the
mass removed to make the cargo faster. Yeah, or the
kid who can't afford that kind of stuff. Anyway, it's
not on a level playing field, you know. That's what
I mean. That just thinks. Yeah, well, I mean beyond
the parents saying they shouldn't pay for that, Like you
(23:38):
know what I mean, let's talk about the track. The
starting gate is generally about four ft high because and
I thought this is adorable, because that's about it. That's
a good height for a little cup scout, like it
made sense. So they didn't want to make it so
high that you know, they couldn't do it. Although um,
usually the kid is not actually placing the car. It's
(24:00):
UM an official that's doing that. Yeah, the contains are
usually too sticky. Yeah, I got like lollipopcum all over
the um. And that's another reason why you should mark
UM the front car, the front of your car, in
the back of your car, because if you don't do
like the best job at the aerodynamics, you might not
be able to tell the difference between the front and
the back and it might not be you placing it.
(24:20):
So just put a little like F and a b
on the underside to make sure they know what they're doing.
It'll either be you placing the car, the official placing
the car, or the Grand Marshal of the race, Greg
German placing the car as part of his duties. So
it's four ft high, about thirty two to forty five
(24:41):
ft long UM. The number of lanes are from two
to six, although they talk about the semi legendary twelve
lane model, which was probably pretty boss. Sure, I say, like,
speed this thing up, get as many lanes going as
you can. I know that. You know, you could like
have ten thousand scouts racing with the twelve laner in
an hour. You know, Chuck, this track thing is kind
(25:03):
of like, say you have a twelve lane track. Depending
on the type of race you run, it could actually
make the whole thing go a lot longer because a
lot of people say these tracks, some of them are great,
Like there are there's companies that do make tracks, like
one's called micro Wizard. I think, and this get this
guy came up with this company to build like really
awesome aluminum tracks with UM timers that can UM that
(25:28):
that are sensitive to I think to ten thousands of
a second UM and so this guy is making these
really great tracks, but not all tracks are created like that.
That whole set ups like two grand. So if you
have maybe an older wooden track or something like that,
some critics of those kind of tracks say, well, then
everybody needs to run a race and each one of
(25:50):
those slots, and then you take the combined times to
come up with an average, because some slots are going
to be better than others. So if you had like
a twelve a twelve lane track, oh yeah, you would
have a very long day ahead of you. So that
would not speed things up. It would do the opposite
of speeding things up, all right, So I'd smash ten
(26:10):
of those lanes and at least stump atom. Like you said,
most of the really nice tracks are aluminum now, although
they can still be wood. Uh. Sometimes the wood is
surfaced and like Mason eyed or something like really slick
um surface to make it as fast as possible, because
that's what it's all about. So we're gonna get down
(26:31):
to business what everyone's been waiting for, and tell you guys,
how to make your regulation Pinewood Derby car as fast
as possible. Right after this, So Chuck, we happened to
(26:59):
go onto Boys Life Magazine today a couple of times
and every day, alright is our homepage. Uh, and we
looked at ways to make your Pinewood Derby car faster.
One of the articles you found was from Mars Curiosity
rover engineer who he and his son Um are into scouting,
(27:20):
and they made a Pinewood Derby car and they decided
to apply the scientific method to figuring out ways to
make it faster. And this dude came up with this, um,
these these pointers. Basically what is his name, His name's
Mark Rober. He's a Nasha NASA engineer. Yeah, and he
and his son are to be thanked for these pointers.
(27:41):
All right. Well, speaking of point um, the first thing
you want to do is avoid a pointed nose on
your car. Good. You wanted to be flat um across
the front because um, sometimes it will affect how it gets,
how it reads across the finish line, which you don't want.
I saw a hammerhead shark Pinewood Derby. It was off. Yeah,
that's a pretty good example of what you want up front,
(28:03):
that flat nose. Um. And the other thing too, is
it may affect the way it rest on that pint
at the start of the race. Yeah, because if it's
cocked off to one side or the other, that car
is gonna hit that middle rail and it's gonna be
friction city and you're gonna go home crying in your
in your pillow. That's right. Um. You want the weight,
(28:23):
like we mentioned at the rear of the car, um
about within an inch of that rear axle, and proper
weight distribution accounts for about thirty six percent. I thought
you said, oh no, those aerodynamics. Yeah, I was gonna
totally nail you on that one the way. That's huge.
And Um, what that means is you've got more potential
(28:45):
energy because the center of mass is higher up on
the track, right, So so you know, like with our
water slides episode, the higher up you go in the stairs,
the more potential energy you have. So even that extra
like half an inch of weight distribution towards the back
higher up, the more acceleration you're going to have on
(29:06):
your car. Yeah, because if you if you think about
the track like once it flattens out at the bottom.
If the weight is on the frontier car and you've
got two cars side by side and the weights on
the front that one's already done, and the one with
the weight at the rear it's still pushing it and
that extra couple of inches is gonna make a big
diff good point. And you, um, you might say, well
(29:28):
then I want to put my weight all the way
on the rear of the car. No, no, no, you
don't want to because that means that, um, the front
might pop a wheelie the whole way down. Again, it'll
look cool, it'll be a crowd pleaser, but you're probably
not gonna win that way. I would totally be a
crowd pleaser because I know I couldn't win the speed portion,
so I would just make one that like pops wheelies
(29:50):
and does cool things. Um. Maybe that's why I was
never cup Scott. I was thinking outside the box. You know.
Um maximum weight, like we said, you want it to
be that five ounce is very big. Oh. They recommend
baking the wood block first. Start to get the all
the XX moisture out of that. Bake it two fifty
(30:14):
for a couple of hours, two hours, and it should
um make your block of wood that much lighter. Because again,
you want weight, you want the full five ounces, but
you want to control. You want to control where you
put that weight, not mother Nature, not God or Earth
or anything like that. You want to control where that
weight goes. Yeah, and um get you know you want
(30:36):
your parents help with all this. Don't go throwing wood
in the oven and crank in it up because it
can catch on fire. You don't want that either. Well,
yeah to fifty All right, here's one. Oh man, I
know you're gonna talk about the three wheeler. I don't
know that wasn't it. You need to check again with
your rules. But apparently in some leagues they allow you
and this is a very common thing now if they
(30:57):
allow it to have one wheel not on the track
at all, like the front left of the front right.
Why would you want to do that? Well because less friction. Um,
so they say about one sixty of an inch higher,
so it never actually touches the track and that will
give you a nine speed increase. Right, you only have
three wheels touching the track at once never Yeah, um,
(31:18):
pretty smart, but also probably cheating if they don't allow it. Yeah,
you want to check your rules again, because I mean
that would suck to go to the trouble of measuring
that out and um being like I'm gonna win and
being disqualified because you didn't read the rules, Hope Stash,
what were you excited about me saying? So a little
more basic than that, but also very thrilling, is these
(31:39):
things ride rails. You don't want your wheels to touch
the rails. You don't want your car to touch the rails.
So you want as true and straight in alignment as possible,
so it goes straight down with as little friction as possible. Right,
that's the old thinking. Okay, well let me finish my
old thing. So that means you want the straightest axles possible.
(32:00):
And this is a really cool way to figure out
if you have straight axles or not. There's gonna be
several axles that come in a package in your kit,
and you want to figure out which ones are the straightest.
You can't really tell just by looking at it. That's
what you do is you get an electric drill, right,
and you if ideally, you put it in a vice
gript so it doesn't move at all. And you take
(32:21):
your axles and you put them in the drill like
a drill bit, and you turn the drill on and
if the axle wobbles, it's not straight. The axles that
wobble the least as they're spinning around the in the
drill are the straightest ones. And those are the two
that you want to use, or the four that you
want to use. It would be too those are the
two that you want to use. Yeah, and uh, not
only that, but once you find your two, um, you
(32:42):
want to polish them, like, don't just throw it in
there because it's a little burrs and nicks and things
that are going to slow your car down. So they say,
again with your parents, either put it in that drill
or a drill press is even better, and just spin
the nail and get a sandpaper and saying those things
down and keep going with that grit until you get
to like two thousand grit. And you polished that axle
(33:05):
to like where it's almost like a mirror. So some
parents are gonna come home and they're like seven year
old kids going to have a block of wood in
the oven on two fifty with a belt stander, and
they're gonna say, Johns and Chuck told me to no, no, no,
I always get your parents help with this stuff. Again,
(33:25):
that's the whole point anyway, activities together. Um so I
mentioned that was the old thinking. This blew my mind
the idea of bent axles and rail riding. So that's
the latest and greatest with the axles they recommend now,
and they make these devices, these little jigs that will
do it for you to bend where the wheel actually
(33:46):
connects about uh two of a bend, so it actually
reduces friction and makes alignment easier. This makes sense to me.
So what you've got then is your front tie front
tires angled inward and your back tires angled out, and
that makes what you want, like if you put it
(34:07):
on just a flat surface and rolled it, you want
it over the course of like ten ft to steer
about an inch to the left or right, because rail
riding is the new fastest way to raise your car.
So I don't get that well it what they said
was is this is the video I watched. This how's
explained to me at least is um once you get
to the bottom and level out. No track is perfect
(34:30):
and even if you have your car perfectly aligned, it's
gonna start wobbling on the track and slow you down.
So the idea is if you have that one front
wheel angled in it the right way and your back
wheels angled the right way, you'll actually touch the rail
and use the rail as a guide to keep you
as straight as possible. So the friction that is lost
(34:53):
is overcome by how straight it is and the lack
of wobble. And they call it rail riding and that's
like the newest thing to do, which goes counter to
anything you would think. And and straight car racing, which
is like to make everything perfectly straight so it doesn't move. Uh,
sort of blew my mind. Be a little mind blowing, man,
(35:13):
I'm with you. Um, graphite is something that you want
to add. It's a dry lubricant and um, that'll add
about seven percent to your speed. Pretty much everybody allows that.
The graphite. Yeah, and everything I saw says just to
get whatever kind of graphite. The the cheap stuff is
just as good as the Yeah, it's all a big
marketing scam apparently, because they said how to graphite graphite,
(35:35):
its graphite. So they'll put like, you know, super speed
graphite and charge you more. It's not like the cheap
stuff has like glue or seashells mixed in with it,
you know. So those wheels you talked about, Um, lider
weight wheels will account for about increase in speed if
it's allowed in your league. Yep. You want your wheel
(35:58):
base to be as far part of possible from what
I understand, Yeah, totally, Like you don't want the wheels
up in the center of the car. That'd be weird
looking anyway, it would be plus Apparently it also takes
more energy to steer it off of the rail. But
I guess that doesn't apply anymore if you're rail racing,
rail riding, Yeah, rail writing. Uh what else? I got
(36:20):
nothing else? Man, you got nothing else? I got nothing else.
I only have one more little thing. Um. And this
is about the you know what, what obviously is going
to happen in any competition in the United States. Parents
are gonna get involved and they're gonna become big jerks. Um.
It was the whole basis for that movie, I think.
And I went to the boy Scouts site. I guess
(36:43):
it was a Boy's Life magazine site. And there's a
big problem now with like who made your pine with
Derby car? And they said a big red flag is
when mom or dad comes in holding the car and
the kid isn't even holding it, and they'll always say
give it to your kid and we'll deal with him.
Um or guess you know girl scouts are doing now
or her and um, let's get to the bottom of
(37:04):
this and who actually built this thing? And while I
do point out that they take them into the other
room and see if they can break them, right, Yeah,
they have to detail like every single thing they did.
They to try to get around this because they do
acknowledge that you know, these are like seven and eight
year olds and you all that you can't use a
(37:25):
band saw if you're seven or eight. Oh, I guess
it's pretty obvious when a parent has had the lead
on all this. Yeah, rather than taking you know, a
supporting role. Yeah, I think you're supposed to. So that
they just had different parents chime in on what they
do and what they've done and what works in their leagues.
And um they said a lot of times that they'll, um,
(37:46):
the kid will design the car and then like mom
or dad will cut the wood and then the kid
will like assemble the wheels and stuff like that. Um,
so you know, the kid plays a part in it,
but the adult is doing like the dangerous stuff. Um
some uh, some some places to have dad's divisions, so
like the dad can just build his own car and
raise another dad. Well, yeah, there's like whole racing leagues
(38:09):
that are adult leagues technically not Pinewood Derby because Pinewood
Derby's like boy Scouts only, um or Scouts only. But
there's like non boy Scout affiliated adult racing leagues of
this stuff. Yeaht apparently at the Pinewood Derby though, they'll
also have dad racism just so you know, hey, you're
you haven't matured to the point where you can just
(38:30):
participate as a father, so you can raise your other
dads if you really need you. That's pretty great. Uh.
Some people have car building days where they all get
together as a big group into it, which is kind
of fun and that ensures that it's more level playing field.
And then they this one this is my favorite one.
Where is this? I don't think it said where this
(38:51):
was this one? Boy Scout troop gives out awards and
categories like you had originality, craftsmanship, finish. I think that's common.
And then they'll give an award car most likely made
by a parent, and so it's sort of a shame
of public shaming. Yeah, humiliation, Yeah, but I think I
would humiliate the kid too. What they what if they
gave you, like a patch to you just earned your
(39:12):
patch in public humiliation? Right, this just got a red
face Scout on it. Yeah, I don't know. That seems
like it would totally embarrass the kids. It's like rubbing
your face and your poop. That's exactly what it's like.
What else you got? I got nothing else? I got
one more thing. So apparently, as far as scale goes,
(39:34):
some of these Pinewood Derby cars get up to twenty
miles an hour, and if you scaled it up to
a normal sized car, that would be in the area
of two hundred miles an hour. Yeah. Wow, I think
so pretty neat pound for pound, they go pretty quick.
So I guess if you're interested in the pine with Derby,
go join the Cub Scouts or Boy Scouts or look
for a just a recreational league in your town. Right
(39:56):
kind of made me want to build one. Oh check,
there's nothing stopping you. Yeah, well, actually me, because after
about five minutes I was like, yeah, it's fun to
read about though. Well, if you want to read more
about Pineo Derby's you can type those words into the
search bar how stuff works dot Com. You can also
go onto Stuff you should Know dot com and find
the podcast page for this episode, and it will bring
(40:19):
up all sorts of cool links. Uh. And I said, uh,
search bar in there somewhere, which means it's time for
a listener mail. I'm gonna call this um alan Alda experience.
That's the second alan all the appearance in this episode
that you can't have enough alan Alda references. You know,
(40:42):
the Onion went on a little tear where like alan
Alda made an appearance and every single one of their
slides really Yeah, Dear Charles, Joshua and Jerome, I want
to share a quick story about the time I met
alan Alda. I had wanted to meet him for most
of my life. Like Chuck it, it was a goal.
While other kids were watching Full How, I was watching
Mash and Dragnet, so that was like me too. I
(41:04):
never watch Full House, which is coming back, by the way,
did you hear that? No with the original cast? They're
remaking it? No? I think Uh, I think it's the
original cast. Yeah, it's the original cast, but it may
concentrate on the kids version of their house or something.
I don't know. Who cares, right, I work as a
(41:25):
producer for a radio morning show in in Pittsburgh. My
station sponsor a series of talks in which Mr Alda
was a part of and I got a chance to
meet him at a dinner and um, shake his hand
and hand a copy of the book to him of
his book to sign. And when I went to do this,
a quote gentleman end quote who I can best describe
as a forty five year old child. He looks like
(41:47):
he comes from old money cut in front of me.
I know if that guy's pine would Derby car would
be like he said, he think Dudley Moore and Arthur
but without the charm. Uh. He looked like he had
a scotch in his hand. He slurred the question was
hot lips hula hand? Really hot? God? A bunch of
this guy and all the handle the situation gracefully because
(42:08):
he's Alan Alda. And after a few more embarrassing questions,
a guy left and I got to introduce myself properly,
and a little bit later I went up to him
again to get a formal picture and he remembered my name.
I was so excited I didn't get too um. I
didn't write to brag or make you jealous, Chuck, but
I've been trying to find a reason to write you
guys for six years. The talkie gave was very compelling.
He talked about living life to the fullest, about his
(42:30):
near death experience on a mountaintop in Chile and how
it changed his life. Uh. And then he recommends Alan
alda memoir which I've also heard as great. So you
can just look that up. I heard it's really good,
but they're gonna read it. Yeah, this type of a
few random words into the search bar and it should
bring that up. I think Alan all the memoir. Um.
So that's how I met him. And next on my
life goal list just to meet Josh and Chuck. So
(42:53):
that is from Andy Lindberg, who's a radio radio producer
like Jerry. Yeah, in Pittsburgh, p A. They run into
each other at the convention every once in a while.
How do you stay awake when you guys are doing
their stuff? I don't know. How do you stay awake? Hearty? Hard?
Are getting anything else? Sick of radio producers making fun
(43:14):
of us? If you want to get in touch with Chuck,
me or Jerry or the three of us, or any
combination thereof, you can tweet to us at s Y
s K Podcast. You can join us on Facebook dot
com slash stuff you Should Know. You can send us
an email to Stuff Podcast at how stuff Works dot com, and,
as always, join us at our home on the web,
Stuff you Should Know dot com. For more on this
(43:41):
and thousands of other topics, is it how stuff works
dot com
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