How the GED Test Works

The GED test was once part of a non-profit organization. That all changed in 2014, when it was privatized, made more expensive and more difficult to pass. But that also brought about a couple of more testing options. Learn all about how high school dropouts can earn their equivalent degree in today's episode.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Stuff You Should Know Fromhouse Stuff Works dot com. Hey,
I'm welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W.
Chuck Bryant, and that's this Stuff you Should Know the
podcast Good Day. Oh there's Jerry. She snuck up on its.

(00:24):
Uh yeah, this one is a part of our I
guess law enforcement suite no. Uh, military suite No. A
little sort of addiction swite, yes, because people are addicted
to knowledge, buddy, and uh here in the United States,

(00:45):
and I believe in Canada, if you don't graduate high
school and then later on you say, you know what,
that was a mistake. I'm just gonna go back to
high school. And they say you can't do that. You say, well,
what do I do? And then they say it's your
g e D, dummy, and you go, oh, oh, that's
great because that's my General equivalently diploma, right, And they say, no,

(01:08):
that's not what it stands for. No, you should have
stayed in high school. Although I don't think they teach
this in high school now, of course they don't g D.
A lot of people do think it stands for General
equivalenc Diploma, but it stands for General Education Development, which
is a company a brand name, Yeah, like Seeing Eye Dogs,
brand name, Heroin, Yeah, brand name, Kleenex, brand name, m

(01:32):
M barbecue No very nice xerox is though, Yeah. Those
are called generic size trademarks, yeah, band aid. Yeah. Things
that were a trademark name or still are. But it
becomes so widespread and so dominant in their market they

(01:53):
become the name for all of the other versions of themselves.
Petroleum Nope, vassoline though, but yes, which should be called
petroleum jelly. Yeah, No one says that, though weirdos say that.
They just say vasoline or lube. Do you have any
petroleum jelly for sale? People say, I don't know what

(02:16):
you mean. You say, well, I mean vasiline, and they say, well,
why didn't you just say that? And then uh, you
just get quiet, and then they say, yes, we have
some vasoline for sale, and then you buy the right
aiight bran because it's cheaper and it's the same thing,
but it just does petroleum jelly. That's right, all right?
This is off to a banging start. That was a
horrific story. Um about eight hundred and fifty thousand people

(02:38):
in the United States and took this has got a
lot of stats in it. By the way, was it
just eight fifty I'm surprised. I thought it was like
a million. No, I've got the stats right here, my friend,
under key findings. More than eight d adults adults world

(03:00):
wide took at least one of the five content area tests.
So that's our first point is the g e D
isn't a single test, but it is five subtests are
what they called them. Well, it wasn't two thirteen, that's right,
it's switched in two thousand fourteen. This is a heck
of a time to be talking about g e D.
It really is, because there's been some big changes lately. Uh.

(03:22):
And only on not only but seven forty three thousand
completed the entire test battery and the reason why was
because that change. Usually it's fewer than that. Usually, the
the proportion of people who take the the g e
D to the people who take and finished the g

(03:43):
e D the same year is much different. There's a
huge difference this year or two thirteen, it was close
because everybody wanted to complete it because it was about
to get a lot harder in two thousand yea, And
of those who took the complete battery of tests passed it. Uh.
And the way they have it's pretty cool. The way

(04:04):
they established the passing score is they give it to
high school graduates and the top six of high school seniors.
They compare that against the test. They used that as
the norm. I did not know that. Yeah, that is
very clever. Yeah, I thought so. I mean that's a
high school equivalence intest. Yeah, that makes perfect sense now

(04:26):
and the whole a lot. I mean you kind of
said it like, well, people you know, drop out of
high school and then years later they say, yeah, maybe
I should go back an average of nine years. By
the way, is it nine now? Yeah, nine years later.
And they they had statistics from I think starting from
geez many many years ago, and they remained pretty consistent

(04:48):
as far as racial divide and men or women and
then people who pass or people who fail. Reasons people
take it, It's fairly consistent over the years. It's pretty interesting.
The reason people take it um ultimately is so they
can get gainful employment. But it seems to flip flop

(05:09):
depending on the economy whether they're going to go on
and go to college afterward, because you need your g
e d. To get into college or because as the
general education UM development. Uh. People say there's roughly four
million jobs out there that are just waiting for people

(05:30):
to prove that they can fill them, and one way
to prove that is to have a g e D.
It basically says I am qualified for most of your
unskilled labor at least, and so going and getting a
g e D is for a lot of people a
huge investment in their future. Um. So that's pretty much

(05:52):
why the g e D. It provides quote proof of
readiness for higher education or the workplace. That's the whole point.
It's it's it's proof that you're ready to move on. Uh. Yeah.
And they actually have statistics too on why people take it.
Um said they took it for educational reasons. Uh, and
it's not just one or the other. I think it

(06:13):
can be multiple reasons, because more than half and I
thought this was pretty neat said they tested for personal
reasons such as being a positive role model and for
a sense of personal satisfaction, and then said for employment
reasons to get a job basically, so I thought that

(06:33):
was those findings are interesting. I like the role model thing,
like even though only four points five percent of the
people who take it are over fifty years of age.
I say hats off to that four point five percent
because they you know, that's probably personal satisfaction or role
model reasons right there. You're never too old to get educated.

(06:53):
Don't give up. That sounds like an ending, but this
is just the beginning. Well, maybe we can cut and
paste it under the I'll say it again at the end. Okay,
so um, people have pretty great reasons for this. It
also helps the economy. If you have a bunch of
unfilled jobs out there in your economy, and you have

(07:13):
a bunch of unemployed people, and all that you need
to get the two together is proof that this group
of people is qualified to fill this these unfilled jobs,
then you have a real need to get those people
qualified as easily as possible. And for many, many, many
many years, the g e D was a state sponsored,

(07:35):
nonprofit way of making that happen. That's right. If you
want stats to back that up, sir, Okay, the net
lifetime fiscal contribution of a high school graduate or g
e D holder is almost three thousand dollars. Wow. Uh,
and you're gonna have about a ten tho dollar difference
in annual salary if you get that g e D
or do not. And with one point two million UH

(07:59):
college dropouts each year, UM, people should encourage people to
take the g E D. And I'm gonna go out
and say, and people are probably gonna be mad some people.
I think it should be subsidized. If you want your
g E D. I think you should be able to
take it for free. Well in a lot of states.
It is some states, but a lot of people have
a big problem with that. Shouldn't have dropped out of

(08:20):
high school to begin with. But um, that doesn't make
any sense because what we needed more educated people saying
get better jobs and not be a tax burden in
other ways, you know what I'm saying. Um, So, the
whole idea of the g D initially was it was
basically a compromise between the military and the a c E.

(08:42):
The American Council of Educators, I believe, and um, apparently
when World War two broke out, or when the US
entered the Second World War, UM, there was this idea
of just handing out wartime diplomas. If you came aboard,
you got drafted, you you and did whatever you can,
just have your high school diploma, and Uh, the a

(09:04):
C said that's a really bad idea because you're gonna
have some people coming back afterwards who are unqualified, but
people will think they're they're qualified. It is bad for
the economy to do that. Let's come up with something else.
Military said, fine, do it, and the a C said fine,
we will, and they went off and they came up
with the what is the g E D. Yeah, for

(09:25):
five years it was just for military, right, like you
had to be a military service member to to take
the g E D. And then after that they're like,
you know what, this is a pretty good idea, so
let's expand it to everybody. Yeah, it was a great idea,
and they did expand it. And over the years since then, Uh,
it has gone through now five iterations, UM. Previously to

(09:48):
the last one was in two thousand two, and uh
it's changed quite a bit over the years. UM, like
all standardized standardized test. I guess. Uh. Previously you like
back in the nineteen forties and fifties, UM, it was
pretty much just reading and writing skills, social studies, science

(10:08):
and math. But like basic skills, they didn't try to
make it like a like a real world test. You know,
does that make sense? Uh, like real world applications. Like
later on they started putting things like newspaper articles that
you could read instead of just like read this text

(10:29):
about Johnny and his dog, right, And I yeah, I
think it was definitely also geared towards people high school
level maturity too. And then later on they were like, well,
we've got a lot more adults taking this than we realized,
so let's change it. It just took them like thirty
years to make that change. Yeah. Um, it took on
a lot more of a conceptual evaluation over the years

(10:49):
as well, and uh, showing people examples from like, like
I said, real world, their home life and their work life,
so they can say, hey, that's me in these test examples.
I get it. And it's not. It's it's more humanized
I think. Right. Plus, they instituted a big one, the
writing test, an essay section that was definitely new critical

(11:14):
thinking skills, and all of a sudden g D got
a little harder. But it wasn't over then, and we'll
talk about more after this, so check. They revamped the
g e D in for like the first time seriously
in thirty years, and um, it's a little more real world,

(11:35):
a little more reflective, And they just missed this the
cusp of a real change, because in nineteen eighty two
the world became a little more aware of the fact
that it was globalizing. And so six years after that,
the g e D said we need to make some
changes as well, and they revamped again. Had they just

(11:58):
waited until eight, they could have skipped the whole nineteen
seventy eight revamp, that's true. And eight is when they
added that essay uh component, which was makes a lot
of sense to me. Did they I thought they added
it in no, huh? And in seventy eight is when
they separated the reading test and basically said we're not

(12:20):
going to do any more of this, just straight up
like fact recall stuff. Um. And at this point only
of the takers were taking the test for employment. Um,
we're taking it to basically go to college. Yeah, And
that's reflective of a larger thing where the premium or

(12:43):
the rebate you get for a college degree was much higher,
and that fluctuates over time. And I read this paper
where you can basically look at it like supplying demand,
where if employers are saying we need more skilled labor um.
So you need to go to college, but if you do,
we're gonna pay you more. Then more people who took

(13:05):
the g e D would go on to to um
college or whatever. But if not when the premium was lower, say,
like unions were in charge and they were like, are
people that need college educations but you're still going to
pay them? Well, the people would take the g e
D just to get into industry. Yeah. Interesting, they're all
very closely aligned. Now people are like, do you even

(13:26):
need a college education? Which to me, I think is
a separate episode that we should do. I totally agree
to because the whole notion of uh, there's a lot
of people challenging, uh, the validity of college these days,
and especially the stupidity of taking out exorbitant amounts of
student student loans. They're going to cripple you and cripple

(13:49):
the economy the United States. Well yeah, I mean, especially
if you're not going to be able to make that back. Yeah. Um.
There's some people that say that the student loan problem
is like the biggest problem facing our economy. They're called
Occupy Wall Street. No, they're called Mark Cuban. Like a
lot of smart people businessmen are saying this is just
getting out of hand. Yeah, I think we should definitely

(14:09):
do an episode on that. So before you can go
to college, though, you need that g e D or
your high school diploma. Um, so let's say you do
want to take the g e D. These days, you
can prep yourself. You don't have to just go in cold.
They are all kinds of materials you can get online. Um,
if you go through the official g e D site.

(14:31):
Because there are now three things you can do. There
are three tests you can take. G e D isn't
your only option. No. It used to have a monopoly
in the United States. Yeah, but since uh, Pearson Education
a private company, basically I guess bought bought it out right. Yeah.
The a C, the American Council of Educators on Education. Okay, Um,

(14:55):
they were the ones that owned g e D and
they were running in as an profit and they said,
we need to revamp this, so we're going to take
on a for profit education. Educational publisher Pearson and Pierson
came in and said, okay, thanks for bringing us on. Uh,
do you know what a hostile takeovers? And a C

(15:15):
said not really, we're edging and then they were pushed
out of the door. Here's the banker's box exactly right.
So Pearson took over and is running this as for profit. Yeah,
but there are other options now, um, I think Pearson
and the official g e D is the only one
available in all fifty states, but most states now you
can also take the T A S C, which is

(15:37):
run by also known as Task mcgrawl Hill or H
little I, Big Set, High Set which is administered by
E T S and UH and most states now you
can have your choice of all those. Um. Yeah, what
happened was in two thousand and fourteen, the g E D,
which was a basically n g O run nonprofit testing resource, Yeah,

(16:01):
became privatized, and now there's competition among private businesses. That's right.
So where I started with all this kabbadigook was how
to prep um. Depending on which tests you take, you
will probably want to use their testing materials, although they
say that, um, any kind of preparatory materials that you
can find are probably gonna be good for all three

(16:21):
of the tests because while they're not exactly like, they
all have the basic standard five components or four oh
and only four on some of them. Yeah, so apparently
the g D went from UM to language and language
arts and reading modules to one. But basically they're covering
language arts, are reading, science, math, and social studies. Right

(16:44):
before it was language arts and writing and then language
arts and reading and now that's just one. Yeah, it's
called reasoning through Language Arts and the g e D battery. Nice.
The whole kit and caboodle is gonna take you, uh
close to eight hours. Um, it's all parched out in
the time. But if you do need more time, if
you have some sort of learning disability or something, or

(17:05):
if you want to be in a room by yourself,
most of these testing centers will accommodate that visual learners
are easily distracted by other people in the room. Yeah,
I am, so that's why they stick. They make sense.
You you can have you can have your own room, dude,
I never thought about that. That makes total sense. Like
I do my best studying for the podcast when I
go in one of our office rooms and just lock

(17:26):
the door. Huh. And also, because Jonathan Strickland is super loud,
it is pretty loud. He loves telling stories really loudly. Okay,
So also a lot of if you're interested in taking
the get a lot of information, uh you're gonna want
is it depends on the state, like where you can

(17:47):
take it, how much it's gonna cost. It all varies
by state, um, and the guidelines of your state are
gonna dictate, uh sometimes which one you have to take.
I think state of Washington signed a deal with Pearson
to make that the only one for the state. Yeah.
I think there's twelve states where you have a choice
of all three that all um, but the g E

(18:09):
D is available in not all fifty states. I think
some of them dropped it. Interesting. I think Pierson really
ticked off a lot of companies by basically saying, you
remember these fees that before it was the state was
subsidizing it to an extent. Some states were saying, okay,

(18:29):
so this is how much the test people charge, and
then we can add fees onto that. So that's that's
how it stands still today to run to run the
center where they take it is where those fees come,
right exactly. Some states said we're not adding any additional
feest and we're going to subsidize the actual cost of
the test. UM. So when the when the when g

(18:52):
E D doubled basically their rates. Um they were passing
it along to the states and basically saying, you know,
passive all to the test takers if you want. The
thing is is like these are disproportionately low income people
and doubling the rates even even if we're talking like
fifty six dollars suddenly being like a hundred, a hundred

(19:12):
and twenty, that's a significant increasing cost cost prohibitive in
some cases. Right, that's just for the test too, that's
not that's not for prep materials and that kind of thing,
which a lot of states also uh subsidized as well
and gave up for free. Yeah, so I think Pierson
takes some people off with the with the sudden for
profit model. But Pearson, in its defense says, we really

(19:37):
kind of updated this thing for the twenty one century. Yeah,
they moved it to a computer based test, not an
online test, but it has to be taken. The G E.
D Brand test Pierson tests has to be taken on
a computer now, whereas the other two you can still
take with pen and paper or on a computer. Right.
But Pearson says, in the long run, this is gonna
save money because it's cheaper to things on a computer.

(20:01):
But that also came with some controversy because while it
seems to us like computers are ubiquitous and everybody knows
how to use one, maybe a really poor fifty year
old person has never touched a computer, so they have
to learn how to use a computer before they can
even take the test. Right, So, Chuck, we're talking about
the controversy right because I put it kind of flippy earlier,

(20:25):
like the G E D was privatized and it is
essentially as simple as that, But that's that there there's
so much more to that that doesn't just exist in
a vacuums still loaded concept these days to take education
and privatize it UM that that are at a for
profit model to education. UM, it has brought a lot

(20:45):
of criticism again Pierson saying, uh, yeah, we kind of
need these people to take this test on computers because
that's where the jobs are, Like, you have to know
how to use a computer to work almost anywhere these days.
That's a good So it's a good thing to make
these people learn to use a computer first. So there's
you know, what's what's the problem in that? UM. A

(21:08):
lot of people would respond and say that's great. Maybe
this is something we could have implemented a little more slowly.
Maybe you could have given the States and then hence
the state funded testing centers a little more of a
heads up that this is where it was going to go.
Or provide the computer as an option, because not every
job involves a computer. No, it's true for now, but uh,

(21:31):
task and high set both offer computer and paper versions,
right like you said. Um again, Pearson says, well, that's great.
The States still has to pay for grading of the
pen and paper versions. With the computerized version, we have
it all built in. People don't have to wait around
for their scores. They get in immediately since it's on
a computer and it can be graded by the computer. Apparently,

(21:55):
you can take a module, you can find out that
you you didn't pass the module immediately and take it
two more times before having to enter like a thirty
or sixty day waiting period. You can just sit there
and take it two more times, right there. Yeah, that's
pretty handy. So, I mean, there is. It's not entirely
like you know, Evil Co came in and took over
the g D, but I think the the sweeping changes

(22:18):
they made were so abrupt that it caught a lot
of people off guarden and they're I mean, they're suffering
as a result. Some people some states have just entirely
dropped the g e D. It's not even an option, wow,
the official g e D. So you brought up a
good point. Um, you don't have to take the entire
test at once because some people can't afford a hundred
and sixty bucks or more. You can break it out

(22:39):
into modules and pay as you go. Uh. And like
you said, if you don't pass one, you can retake
just that module. It's not all or nothing, which is great.
You can take it in Spanish, you can take it
in French, I think too. Yeah, you said at the
very beginning that around the world eight hundred and fifty
thousand people took it. Yeah, you can be elsewhere in

(23:02):
the world to get your US high school diploma equivalent
of the diploma your g E D. Uh. They have
brail versions. Um, they have large print and audio versions
and don't show up and expect that though. That's the
kind of thing that when you're registering you have to
let them know and make sure that they can accommodate you.

(23:23):
And it's also interesting that people, some people say, you know,
this whole computer thing is is a mess. But most
of the information you're gonna have to go to online
to find out this stuff. I mean it's available to
I mean you can go to the learning center and
stuff like that and get a pamphlet. I'm sure still,
but everything I saw was like, hey, go online and

(23:44):
check out this, Go online and check out your state's guideline,
go online and check out study courses. So it helps
to you know, have that capability. But you can go
to a public library and get online. You can you know,
you can also get all the printed stuff at your library.
To um. One of the big changes to that that
um Pearson took a little heat for was they were

(24:07):
revamping everything so much, from five modules to four. Scoring
went in completely different directions. I think it used to
be something like a fifty was the minimum. Now it's
a hundred and fifty score is the minimum. No total,
I think, yeah, So overall they just completely revamped everything.

(24:30):
So they said, if you are taking your g E
D in two thousand thirteen, and you've got like three
or four of the five modules, you might want to
finish your fifth one, because come two thousand fourteen, you
are gonna have to take it all over again, which
is why there was this huge rush to go take it.
But I read this one article and a guy named
Jose Ortiz of Fort Myers, Florida, so that he was

(24:51):
waiting to take it in two thousand fourteen because he
heard it was going to be harder and he looked
forward to the greater challenge of it. Hats off, Jose, Yeah,
that's awesome. I think the math um section got considerably
more difficult because now you are expected to be able
to pass up through algebra two and apparently that is higher. Uh,

(25:14):
that's more math in is required at the community college
level in a lot of cases algebra. So they've taken
a lot of heat. I was interested in taking the
G E D. Actually it was free. I would have
taken it to see how I did. And there's no
like free sample test online. I don't know. I can
see them having it locked down now. Maybe, Uh, if
you're gonna take the test, Uh, it is still at

(25:35):
a testing center. There over thirty of those across the US,
and they're going to be at community colleges, public schools,
adult education, uh, continuing ed centers, adult stuff like that,
adult education. Oh yeah, I love how they're like the

(25:57):
hipster band now are they? Oh yeah, so'sual? Like yeah,
Hollo Notes is so awesome. It's like where were you in? Man?
That was first made fun of. Oh yeah until Tuesday.
They're still great. Man. Hollan Notes sounds awesome still that
live from Darrrel's house. Have you ever seen that he
has a studio and his uh at his place and

(26:18):
he's a show on Playdia I think where he has
musicians come in and like everyone from Billy Gibbons of
zz Top to Hoodie Darious. Yeah he's a country now,
yeah that's what I heard. He's a country and uh,
they'll just come in and do like they'll do like
a Hollan Note song and then like a zz Top
song and whatever they want to do. It's pretty fun.

(26:39):
Did you ever see the guar at the A V
Club's live concert series? Oh, when they did the cover series.
That's one of my favorite things is the AVY Clubs Undercover.
Yeah that's what it is. Yeah. Every year they take
i think it's like twenty songs, put them on a board,
and then one at a time bands choose them and
mark them off and so it's like time goes on
you less and less choice. But Guar, who did they do? Man?

(27:02):
I don't remember what they did? Oh? Man, it was
really good too, and it was that they'd been on
once before, the only one I saw as their second appearance.
I can't remember. It's worth just look up Guar and
a V Club. Yeah. I highly recommend the whole series.
They've been doing it for a few years now. It's
pretty cool. I saw ted Leo and the Pharmacist. That
an awesome version of Everybody wants to Rule the World. Man,

(27:24):
that is a good That whole record, from beginning to
end is amazing. Songs from the Big Chair, Yeah, yeah, agreed,
we do uh el Chipa does shout. That's a good one. Yeah,
and it's super easy. Oh the one I saw was
Billy Ocean. Oh that's right. But apparently Guar also has
done They've covered Kansas, They've covered the Pet Shop Boys. Yeah,

(27:47):
the Kansas one I've seen. They did carry on My
Wayward Sun, didn't they probably? Yeah that's pretty cool man.
How do we get on that? From? G. E. D.
Hallow notes adult education? Yeah, I don't think I have
anything else. I don't either, um so Like I said before,

(28:08):
I would say it again. It's never too late. You
can inspire your kid, your grandkid. Maybe they're thinking about
dropping out of high school. You go out and take
that test and show them that that education is valuable. Yes,
that's that's from your uncle Chuck. Nice Chuck, and Uncle Josh,
your aunt Jerry, aunt or aunt. I say aunt, but

(28:29):
people say aunt, So I do aunt? Uh? You say aunt? Right? Yeah,
I say yeah. Yeah, it's supposed to be guttural and
clipped like German. Yeah. I still call my As a
forty three year old, I'll still call my aunts and
uncles like Uncle jimmy Uncle Steve. Yeah, it's still I

(28:50):
just it'd be weird. And my my nieces are in
their early twenties now and they call me Uncle Chuck
and Emily, and I'd be it'd be weird if they
just call me Chuck. Oh, I have mine call me
Mr Clark very nice. Well, since we got into the
versus aunt debate, that means you can type in G

(29:11):
E D in the search bar how stuff works dot
com and get your foot in the door. Get started
at learning how to use the computer to prepare to
take the piercing based g E. D test Uh and
I think I said search bar in there right, yeah,
which means it's time for listener mail. Uh. This is
from Joachim in Denmark and it's about goats licking feet.

(29:35):
Oh yeah, this is serious. Hey guys, I'm sitting here
listening to your Salt podcast read listening to it and
suddenly remembered why that episode annoyed me last time I
listened to it. Yeah, I know, I didn't see why
he had to say annoyed him, but well, I think
he's from Denmark. I don't think they're annoyed as like
our annoyed. You know you're off the hook, walk King yucky. Um,

(29:58):
you mentioned a particular type of torture called goats tongue
and categorize it as kind of a tickle torture. What
you need to know about goats is they can eat
and digestue about anything, including you, me, the thing you
live in, the thing you drive in, the thing you're
married to, and the thing that pays you money. I
really like that goats will very slowly, but very doggedly,

(30:19):
lick the flesh clean off the soles of your feet.
If you ever had a small cut underneath your feet.
You'll know that you're we're actually quite sensitive down there. Um.
Having the flesh looked off will expose all your nerve endings,
which the goat will then proceed to look through. Think
of it like having the soles of your feet sand
papered off and then just keep stand papering untill there's
nothing left but bone. Uh. That is from like I said,

(30:42):
your Kim in Denmark, and that was it. It just
kind of stopped right there. He gets a total break
because he now he had other stuff to say, like
what a big fan he was, and he's re listened
to a lot of these so he can say whatever
he wants. Oh awesome because he re listens. Yeah, and
who on earth would do that? And some will do
like really listen to the whole thing. My breed thought, Okay, everybody,

(31:07):
are you okay? Yeah? People who are listening to this
for the third time, Well you q A the podcast
before their release. Yeah, I listened to them after the
release to make sure that nothing got through that shouldn't have. Really,
you didn't know that, Yeah, I didn't know my QA
was being Q eight No, no, no, not that. I'm
just there's been a few times where we've been like,

(31:29):
there's a little mess up in there, Aunt Jerry, Aunt Jerry.
But all the oh wait, yeah, that's right, we say
aunt when we're angry. All that is to say that
it's all I can do to say this stuff and
listen to it again. I'm sure you feel the same way. Yeah,
that's like one of the worst parts of our job.
And happy Thanksgiving to us one and all. Right, So

(31:52):
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(32:17):
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