December 27, 2025 • 48 mins
Playing miniature golf is a very fun thing to do and, you’re about to find, learning about its origin and history is very fun as well. Join Josh and Chuck in this classic episode as they tee off on the mini golf story!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, everyone, I thought it would be nice to ring
in the new year with an easy select filled with
Chuck and Me reminiscing about our childhood memories of Putt
Pud and slush puppies. So for this week's Select, I
give you our August twenty twenty episode, a miniature golf
and want to take a moment to wish my dear wife, Yumy,
a happy birthday. So happy birthday, Yummy, And to you
(00:21):
dear listeners, Happy New Year.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and
there's Charles w Chuck Bryan over there, and there's Jerry
there figuring out all the new contrivances of modern life.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Yeah, I mean we should tell people what's going on.
I think it's interesting, right, No, well, I'm gonna tell him. Fine,
So Jerry is figured out now how to operate the
studio Macintosh recording system. Sure, and not be in the office.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
It's pretty great. It's COVID terrific.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Actually, And so she was just up on our Skype
on video and she's still there. But when she switched
it to mute, it went to that distressing picture. Do
you see that thing?
Speaker 1 (01:20):
No, I just see JR. Like the letter J in
the letter R.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Oh see there she is. She's back.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
When she turned it off, though, was I get a
photograph of Jerry that looks like she's like sick in
bed or something. It's weird.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
This is a well that's just Jerry's look.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Maybe so, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
That's a diet of nothing but miso for fifteen twenty
years will do for you.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
The weirdest thing is this is as close as we've
come to normal in four months.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
I know. Not only is it like normal, it's almost
like a throwback. Remember when we had the studio where
we would look out the window when she was there. Yeah, yeah,
that was great. It's kind of like this again. She
was a window creeper yeap, professionally and in her personal
life too.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
So this is stuff you should know everybody. I don't
know if I said it. There are probably a few
people who are confused and aren't anymore. But we haven't
gotten started yet, so prepare to be confused again. When
we explained something in particular, Chuck Miniature.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Golf, I gotta ask, are you a fan.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Uh, this made me want to play again. Like I
grew up playing putt putt or and have very fond
memories of all the different colored golf balls, you know,
like the water trap that was really just a stagnant
little puddle of concrete. You know. Put pet was wonderful
and great, and there were arcades and birthday parties there
(02:46):
that featured heavily with g I. Joe action figures and
stuff like that, the good kind of three and three
quarter inch ones. M h. And yeah, I am a fan,
if not just nostalgically in general.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Yes, and which style And as you as a listener
will see soon, there are a couple of different things.
But did you grow up playing just sort of the
bare bones putt putt or the more miniature golf clown's mouth,
windmill volcano?
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Well, chuck. If you ask me if I had a
rich childhood, I will always tell you yes, sir, Yes
I did. And the reason why is because I grew
up having putt putt close by in Toledo, and we
played that a lot. And then when my family would
vacation in the summers on Catawba Island on Lake Erie,
and this is like pre cleaned up Lake Erie. There
(03:39):
was a like a run down little like mini golf
with like clowns, mouths and windmills and all that stuff
right by the place where we used to stay, like
walking distance, and so we'd play there a lot too.
So I had the best of both worlds, a really great,
just top notch childhood.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
So I grew up playing putt putt at Stone Mountain Park,
which we went to a lot because it was near
our church and the youth group would go and do
putt putt nights and stuff. So that was a lot
of fun. And I was sort of partial to those
that were like, you know, the real putt putt where
it requires a little bit of skill. But I am
(04:17):
also a sucker for the beach Town volcano, waterfall, go
kart bumper boat arcade scene.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Yep, don't forget laser tag.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
I never really did laser tag. I think that came
around a little after I was, you know, in my
prime years for this kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Gotcha, Yeah, it wasn't the same here, but I was
looking up. Now they have laser tag at putt putt places.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
But I still love those go karts. Man, when we
go to Isle of palms. Last year, I found a
place nearby. I was like, we got to go, and
everyone was kind of like, oh, I don't know, and
the kids are sort of like, yeah, I guess I'll
do it. I was like, guys, we gotta go.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Right, Like, what is wrong with all of you? Who
are you vacchening with? Chuck?
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Man, it was so much a carbon monoxide leak at
the house.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
You wran no those go karts. I could do that
all day long.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
And of course I got the guy, you know, the teenager,
squeaky voice, teenager, and I said, hey, man, which one
which was? Which is the fast one? Means like number eight?
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Really?
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Oh yeah? And sure enough it was really fast.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
You just ran circles around everybody.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
I did such that I even laid off on the
gas a little bit just to catch up and let people,
you know, act like they outrace What a sportsman?
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Oh my goodness. Well we'll talk about go karts one
day more in depth, but today we're just going to
focus on the miniature golf.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Okay, Yeah, this is a pretty interesting history, I think.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Yeah, I had no idea how far back it went
until we started researching this and actually it goes all
the way back to the nineteenth century. And this is
one of those rare things that's been around a while,
but you can actually pinpoint like the first one and
the first miniature golf course in the world as far
as anybody knows, is that Saint Andrews. It's the Ladies
(06:09):
Putting Club of Saint Andrews and it was built in
eighteen sixty seven strictly for the women members of the
Ladies Putting Club.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Yeah, there's a couple of things that play here. Actually
really just one thing, which is not letting women do
things because there was a decree basically that women shall
not take the club back past their shoulder.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Commandment.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Yeah, like a real golf swing in other words, was
I guess improper for a for a lady to do.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
The Victorian era was just so stupid when it came
to social constraints.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
I'm trying to figure out why does that I don't know, ditriarchy.
I would guess, well, I just wonder why a full
golf swing would it make their their dress rate rise
above the ankle or like, I just wonder why.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
I think also women were expected to not over exert
themselves physically especially in public too, right, it could kind
of construe that as over exertion.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Well, and then there's this, which is from an eighteen
ninety book by Scottish baron Lord Wellwood talking about women
and when they should golf, when they shouldn't golf, if
they choose. I was going to do a Scottish accent,
but I'm just not feeling it. If they choose to play.
At times when male golfers are feeding or resting, no
(07:33):
one can object, But at other times, must we say it?
They are in the way.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
It was kind of snarky to add even the must
we say it? Like, do I even need to write
this next sentence? It's so just drippingly obvious.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
But the upshot of this is that's why they created
the Ladies Putting Club is just to sort of get
rid of them.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
Yeah, to get them out of the way of the men.
But the joke was on the men because this Putting Green,
this first miniature golf course in the world, is still
around and it's still considered one of the finest. That's
actually nicknamed the Himalayas because it has all these kind
of mountains and hills and hillocks all built into it,
and they really kind of stand out from what I
(08:17):
understand against like the Scottish Sea scape, and it's a
really revered miniature golf course. But it is exactly what
it sounds like. It is a golf course in miniature,
Like just like you take a classic golf course of
the variety that was born in Scotland and you just
kind of hit it with a shrink ray and then
(08:39):
you have a genuine, bona fide miniature golf course. And
that's how the whole thing started out.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Yeah, I mean that's what we would call like a
par three today.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Right, kind of it seems like par three courses are
a little different, So this is like, yes, I think
it does require more than just a putter, right, par
three would require more than a putter. But there seems
to be a few different other kinds of golf courses
aside from the miniature golf course. There's the par three,
(09:10):
the pitch and putt and executive courses all kind of
qualified technically as miniature golf courses in different ways.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Yeah, the executive course they got the name because evidently
an executive could go play a quick ground during lunch.
A lot of par three's you might have a like
one par five and a couple of par fours. Is
that right on a par three on an executive course?
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Oh okay, Yeah, that's what. That's really the only thing
from what I can tell, that differentiates it from a
par three course.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Yeah, it's it's it's a golf course is just shorter
and therefore doesn't take as long.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Yeah. And it's not like the hole is smaller and
the ball is smaller and the clubs are smaller, like
just get out of your fantasy land there. Instead, it's
just the distance from the tee to the hole is shorter.
There's fewer bends and stuff like that, so the actual
experience takes less time and less energy and you can
(10:05):
just kind of fit it in in a shorter amount
of time. And I think that's the popularity of those
things generally. Although pitch and putt courses I also saw there.
They usually consist of a wedge and iron and a
putter of what you need to play on those and
they're all about the focus on the short game. And
as a result, men and women, just average men and
(10:26):
women who play golf can kind of compete pretty evenly
because it's all about the short game. It's all about
finesse rather than you know, just cher power of driving
as far as you can on like a traditional golf course.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Yeah, I mean I'd love golf. I just don't play anymore.
Like I grew up playing golf and was not good,
but I wasn't terrible for as much as I played,
and I still like it. I just don't, you know,
have the time or the inclination anymore. But I like
the big boy courses with the big par fives. But
I also love a fun little part three, Like Florida
(10:59):
has a lot of these beautiful par threes, including some
you can play at night that are all lit up,
and that's always a lot of fun too.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Yeah. I tried to get acquainted with golf as a youngster.
My family had, weirdly enough, because this is not like
my family at all, had a membership at heather Down's
Country Club. Yeah, and I love the pool because they
had like, you know, tons of slush puppies and the
best like nasty hot dogs you can imagine, and there
(11:30):
was a pool and all that. I think I told
you the story about Swim League, the swim team where
I was the worst swimmer on it.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
But I also tried to golf for a couple of
summers and it just didn't didn't take it up. But
I was back in Toledo like a couple of years ago,
I think, right before our Cleveland show, and I visited
the country club. Well, I just drove by and I looked,
and the pool is now just like a green field.
It's been filled in, like the little the little snack
(11:57):
shop has been torn down. I'm like, something really bad
must have happened there for them to do that to
the pool.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
You know. Yeah, there's the And I didn't get to
go here much because it was private. But Hidden Hills
was a big neighborhood near my house that had a
country club that's still around, isn't it. Well, the neighborhood's there,
but you know, the neighborhood has seen its better days.
And the country club and golf course is completely just
shut down and grown over. It's really it looks well,
(12:24):
it is an abandoned place.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
That's so cool.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
It is kind of cool. And then I had the
idea of a movie, like a old school type thing
where a bunch of old a bunch of like middle
aged men that grew up there go back and raise
some money and try and like clean the place up
and get it going again. Yeah, to hilarity.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
There has to be like a greedy developer that they're battling, right.
Oh yeah, so is that the neighborhood that we got
kicked out of when we tried to go shoot like
without a license once around that area? Remember the security
guard came up. It was like, stop what you're doing?
Speaker 2 (12:58):
I don't remember that?
Speaker 1 (12:59):
Yeah, up in one day? Was it on the TV
show and Gorilla? No, it was like when we were
shooting shorts.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
I think I don't remember that.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that was the one.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Should we take a break already?
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Sure?
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Okay, all right, we'll get back and we'll talk about
where many golf went from here right after this.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Definitely should know lars of each y s k as
why why s k? You should know? All right, so
(13:42):
we're back. Nothing we've talked about right now constitutes miniature
golf in the mind of anybody who here's the words
miniature golf, right, Like, what what comes to mind are
things like putt putt or goofy golf, or windmills or
clowns or happy Gilmour or something like that, right, Yeah,
so that all started. Actually that didn't quite start yet.
(14:04):
It was really leading up to that. And then I
realized we had to keep going with regular miniature golf
one more time because it has to spread to America.
And it did, and we can actually trace that too,
to the house of a guy named James Barber, who
is an immigrant from England who was familiar with the
course the Ladies Punning Club at Saint Andrews. And he
(14:25):
was rich enough that he said, you know, I want
a miniature golf course built on my estate at Pinehurst,
North Carolina. And he did. He had like an eighteen
hole miniature course built right there in his formal gardens
and it's just absolutely beautiful.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
It is nice. And this was the first one in
the United States. And as it's called thistle Do Thhi
s t l E d Hu and supposedly, as legend goes,
he when he first saw it he said, this will do.
I guess he was. He was not blown away, maybe
I don't know, so dwelling.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
He wasn't one of those spoiled brat, you know, robber barons,
and instead was like, this will do, this will do
quite nicely. And they just left off the second part,
you know.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Yeah, but it's called this will do. And they started
hosting competitions a couple of years later, and I think
this is the first time miniature golf was ever used,
like those words wherever you use to describe the Pinehurst outlook?
Was that the newspaper, I.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Guess, yeah, it's their one claim to fame. Oh you
know it's true though, it's probably true. Yeah, but that
they were the one that in an account of the competition,
they coined the term miniature golf. Up to that point,
a lot of people had called it little Apputian golf, sure,
after the the little people in Gulliver Gulliver's Travels, and
(15:51):
that actually that name actually stuck for quite a while.
So we've got James Barber, who hosted or built the
first miniature golf course in America. But still this thing
is like directly connected to the Ladies Putting Club of
Saint Andrews. It's a golf course in miniature. We still
(16:11):
haven't quite reached what we would consider miniature golf. And
that wouldn't happen until nineteen twenty six, which turned out
to be a really big year for miniature golf in America.
It was like there was something in the air and
a few different people kind of tapped into it around
the same time and it suddenly just took off like
a rocket.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Yeah. Two of the guys were some entrepreneurs named Drake
del Delinois. I guess name John Ledbetter another good name,
and it's okay.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
He sounds like he'll he'll shoot you.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
He'll led Better.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Yeah, yeah, I can see that.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
They did a pretty cool thing, which is they opened
up a course on top of a rooftop in the
Financial District in New York, and that kicked off a trend.
There were I think about one hundred of those on
top of roofs. I guess it's before the big rooftop
bar hotel scene. They had golf courses up there.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Yeah, miniature golf courses. But again though those were like
miniature golf courses, so that I mean, that was a
big deal in New York. Just one hundred rooftop golf
miniature golf course alone in the twenties, That's that's a
tremendous amount. And I don't think there's a single one left.
Actually there should be, there's there's so that kind of
(17:28):
makes the whole. You know, there's one on top of
Pont City Market where the house Stuff Works office is.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Is there golf up there?
Speaker 1 (17:35):
There's a miniature golf course up there, and it makes
a lot more sense now. Yeah, it's kind of like
a whole mini Coney Island up there. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
I mean, I think I've only been up there when
we had work events, and the only thing I did
was the slide.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
I didn't know there was a slide.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Yeah, there's like a you know, you sit in a
potato sack and go down the big slide.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
Okay, yeah, yeah, I got it that.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
That was fun.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Yeah, there's a there's a miniature golf course up there.
We'll have to play sometime when the whole pandemic passes totally.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
And then later that same year you said it was
kind of a boomy or for mini golf. Lookout Mountain,
Tennessee and Chattanooga, which is a place where I think
everybody should go to see Ruby Falls in Rock City. Oh, yes,
it is a tourist trap, but it's actually kind of neat.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
I mean, the greatest of the great tourist traps and
it still holds up too.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Yeah, get a pecan log Oh my god, those are
so good.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
They are so good. That's what. That also supports my
theory that candy was perfected in the nineteenth century. I
never remember nugat honeycomb. Sure pecan logs.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Was that. I didn't know pecan logs were from way
back then, but I believe it.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
Yeah, for sure, they're definitely old timing.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
So these people, Garnett and FRIEDA. Carter, they built a
resort called Faeryland Club and it was part of that
whole sort of interconnected scene there with Rock City and
Ruby Falls. And they built a miniature golf course and
they said, you know what, if you like golf, maybe
(19:10):
you should try mini golf because it doesn't take very long.
It'll kind of scratch that itch if you're not able
to play a real round. And that's sort of how
they marketed it at first. And they they were the
first people, I think, to start adding the obstacles, right
they did.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Yeah, And they used as they were building like the
inn and the resort complex, they used some of the
construction materials like train pipes and you know, barrels and
things like that and built them as hazards. And then
because they had this whole like fairy tale theme going
up there. They also built rock City. They were the
(19:45):
ones who built Rock City, and that has like a cool,
little weird, weird but also very neat fairy tale theme
kind of hidden throughout. They added that to their miniature
golf course, so they had these stationary obstacles and hazards
that they added, and then they also added this statuary
of cute little you know, mother goose type stuff, and
(20:08):
they actually called the whole thing Tom Thumb Golf, and
Tom Thumb, from what I understand, is the earliest recorded
English fairy tale character from back in sixteen twenty one.
And he was a little tiny guy the size of
his father's thumb, which is where he got his name,
so it was a pretty appropriate name. They must have
really like been pretty pleased with themselves when they decided
(20:30):
to call it Tom Thumb Golf, because it really it
checked all the boxes.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Yeah, and we should mention too, we keep saying Rock City,
and if you're not from the southeast, you might think
it's just some like redneck area with a bunch of rocks.
It's actually a very sweet natural wonder. It's caves that
you walk through caves.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
It's huge boulders being held up by much much smaller boulders. Yea,
that's really not that way for probably tens of thousands
of years. That you walk under their is like yeah,
there's little cave areas that you kind of duck into,
and they have little fairy tale scenes with fluorescent day
or fluorescent yeah, I guess kind of daglaz.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
It's like glow in the dark, weird.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
Like gnomes in fairy tale scenes.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Like that's the weird part. It's like if Carlsbad Caverns
had you know, some corny fairy theme mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
And then Ruby Falls is really neat too. Yeah, it's
a very cool, like natural attraction that they've done a
good job of like underground water making it easy to
make your way to. But yeah, it's the whole thing
is definitely worth going to. And then of course they
have this the very famous like Sea Rock City barn
sides that everybody's right of and that was that was
(21:45):
Garnet Carter who painted one man, or paid one man
to go around and offer to give a fresh coat
of paint to barns all throughout the Southeast in exchange
for letting them paint Sea Rock City on the side.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Yeah, it's if you've ever driven around the North Carolina
South Carolina area and South of the Border, you know,
I'm talking about.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
South of the Mason Dixon line.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
No, South of the Border is the name of this
sort of highway tourist trap.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
No, I haven't heard of that.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Yeah, it's it's it's the same deal. I think it's
I want to say it's North Carolina. But it's basically
like a glorified rest stop with that has a Mexican
theme where you can go, like, I don't know, see
mariachi band and eat good food and buy cheap Chokski's.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
The only mariachi band in all of North Carolina.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
But what made me think about it it might be
was that they have the same thing for like hundreds
of miles in any direction, for South of the Border
and Rock City. They're very famous for these billboards that
tell you like, oh, it's coming, You're getting closer, You're
getting closer.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
That's really strange that I've never heard of that. Then, yeah,
South of the Border check it's not been paying attention.
So so the Carter's built like this Tom Thumb golf course.
And again, originally they just did this as kind of
an amenity their Fairyland Inn in Fairyland Club. But it
was such a smash hit and Garnet Carter was such
(23:08):
a born businessman that they were like, I think there
might be something to this, and they saw either they
saw it out or he sought them. I'm not quite
sure how it happened. But there was another guy who
really factors bigly into this whole story, but he's very
frequently overlooked, and his name is Thomas McCullough Fairburn. McCullough Fairburn. Yeah,
(23:33):
and he invented a really cheap and easy technique for
creating artificial putting greens that could be used for miniature
golf courses.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Yeah. It was a crush cottonseed holes oil, you would
diet green and they would come in these big roles
and you just roll it over this foundation of sand
and boom. You've got an easy way basically to sort
of franchise these things with these prefab kit that they had,
and people loved it because it was you know, when
(24:06):
it was they called it midget golf for a little while,
not a term we would use today, but it's what
they called it in the nineteen twenties, right, And this
factors into a lot of stuff we've been talking about
with the nineteen twenties lately, just these weird fads that
would pop up, and tom Thumb golf was one of them.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
It was. And part of the reason that it got
out from Lookout Mountain is because the Carters and Fairburn
kind of joined forces and used his technique for making
these greens very cheaply and used their kind of like
touch of whimsy, packaged it together and started selling it
prepackaged sets or prefabricated sets that could be franchised out
(24:47):
to anybody who wanted to start their own Tom Thumb
golf course. And so they spread really really quickly, and
like you were saying, like the twenties, they were just
looking for whatever craze could come along. Crossroad puzzles, dance marathon,
flag pole sitting. Well, apparently miniature golf was the king
of them all as far as the twenties crazes went.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Yeah, this is a pretty startling statistic. In August of
nineteen thirty, the Commerce Department said that there were and
apparently this could be low by even as much as
half twenty five thousand twenty five thousand mini golf courses
in the US, half of which were built in that
previous six or eight months of the year.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Yeah, it's a boom right there.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
Can you imagine like in eight months, like twelve to
fifteen thousand many golf courses being built in the US.
It's crazy.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
I can just imagine Garnet and freeda carter just rolling
around on a bed of money in their suite at
the fairy Land in Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
And I mean in a legit like job boosting market.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
Yeah. No, Well that's another thing too, right, I mean,
like there was a like flagpole sitting didn't make the
transition into the depression, and dance marathons did, but they
got kind of grim apparently. Miniature golf and I've seen both,
but miniature golf seems to have made the transition from
twenties craze to you know, kind of national pastime. That
(26:14):
that made sense in the depression because you could take
your whole family out to play miniature golf for pretty cheap,
so that was a big attraction. And then also if
you were like a golf junkie, but all of a
sudden you didn't have the money to afford greens fees
any longer at the very least you could go play
some miniature golf somewhere. So it kind of scratched that
(26:37):
itch to a certain a certain degree. So there was
like a lot of popularity that even after the craze
kind of crested and waned a little bit, it's still
carried on pretty pretty thoroughly through the nineteen thirties. And
as a matter of fact, Chuck, some people were like
that Tom Thumb Golf, the official franchise Tom Thumb Golf,
(26:57):
it's a little rich for my blood. What else she
got for me?
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Yeah, Like, why can't we just do this?
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Well, yeah, exactly. Local entrepreneurs were like, I got exactly
the thing, buddy, you want to play half priced miniature golf,
come on in.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
Like I've got a bunch of PVC pipe playing around.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Yeah or yeah. So just basically whatever found objects you
could find, you could you could come across what we're
called rinky dink miniature golf courses that were basically knockoff
Tom Thumb courses that used whatever found objects the person
who built it head lying around.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
Yeah, New York had about one hundred and fifty of them. Washington,
DC had thirty. One of those is still around the
East Potomac Park course. Yeah, and yeah, the whole family
could get involved. And I think one of the keys
then and now to mini golf being popular and then
putt putt, which we'll see here in a minute, is
that you don't even have to like golf at all.
(27:55):
You can hate golf and still go do putt putt
and probably have a good time.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
Yeah, as long as you don't take it too seriously.
Don't take it too seriously. Please don't just really don't
be that guy. That's what it's for. You want to
take a break in the talk put putt? Yes, okay,
let's do that. Everybody definitely should know.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
Y s K as what why s K?
Speaker 1 (28:34):
You should know?
Speaker 2 (28:38):
Are we there?
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Who me?
Speaker 2 (28:40):
Are we there are?
Speaker 1 (28:41):
But I thought you said are you there? I'm like, yeah,
I'm here. We are there, chuck, because let me set
the set the table here? Are you ready?
Speaker 2 (28:49):
Yes, I'm hungry.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
America got a little burned out on miniature golf, especially
the tom thumb and rinkyding varieties, and so a lot
of it died out, but some remained, some hopped along,
some are still around today actually, and by the nineteen fifties,
there was a guy who was playing at one of
these courses in Fayetteville, North Carolina, which remember was the
(29:15):
home of miniature golf in the United States. North Carolina
is and he happened to have just gotten a prescription
from his doctor saying, you're about to have a nervous breakdown.
I prescribe you a month's rest from work. And this guy,
Don Clayton, said, can do and he started playing miniature golf,
but he wasn't quite satisfied with it.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Yeah. I imagine if you were on the verge of
a nervous breakdown, then Tom Thumb golf is a nice
salve for that kind of experience.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
Sure, if you're charmed by all the whimsical stuff.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
And you don't take it too seriously.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
Right from what I understand though, Don Clayton was like,
this whimsy sucks. We need something better than this, and
I think I'm just the person to build it.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
Yeah, So he had the idea to to basically make
miniature golf but without all the garbage, no clown's mouths,
no windmills, and have a little like have a little
skill involved, like you can go out there and if
you're like a good putter, you can actually compete and
(30:19):
have a good time and it's still for fun, but
it's just not a silly kids game anymore.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Yeah, Like, anybody who's been to an actual putt putt
course can tell you that it's I mean, there's a
lot of obstacles, and it's interesting and fun and there's
some neat stuff, but it does it just does not
have all of like the the moving bells and whistles
that you're gonna see on like other kinds of miniature golf,
like goofy golf.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
Like the obstacles are usually just like some blocks in
the way and stuff like that. Yeah, yeah, like around
or bank.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
Elevated elevated rhombuses or things like that, or like a labyrinth,
you know, built into it. It's not like a clown
mouth or anything like that, which is kind of like
the go to description for goofy golf, isn't it really?
Speaker 2 (31:06):
Yeah, And I think like the craziest thing you'll see
on a putt putt course is where you those that
are like two levels and you can hit it into
three different holes at the top and you're like you
kind of take a little bit of a gamble as
to where it's going to come out on the bottom. Sure,
it'll either come out close to the hole, so you
can get that part two, and I think they're all
part twos on a real putt putt course, right, or
(31:28):
it'll spit you out way far away. But you still
have a chance to hit that long putt for the two.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
Sure, there's always a chance for you a second chance
at putt putt.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
I think that was the motto.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
So yeah, But so this was Don Clayton's vision. He
was like, I want to make this a little less goofy.
I want to make it a little more interesting and.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
Skillful, less goofy, more golfy.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
Yeah, yeah, chuck man, he just sat up from his
grave going I wish I'd thought of that as he did. Yeah,
he died in nineteen nine, Okay, but he had a
good run. I mean, this is nineteen fifty four when
he was a twenty eight year old man that he
decided to try this. So he went to his dad
and said, hey, I've got this. I've got this idea
rather than basically, as a New York Times obituary put it,
(32:14):
rather than basically making a human sized pinball machine for golf.
We're going to make this a little more interesting. How
about we cobble together fifty two hundred bucks and we're
going to build our own little miniature golf course. And
he did, and like a shaded little lot. And with
that fifty two hundred dollars, they opened for business and
(32:35):
within twenty nine days he and his father had made
one hundred percent of their investment back. And Don Clayton said,
I think there might be something to this whole thing.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
Yeah, so he he was initially going to call it.
He went to the bank to open a business account
and he had to fill out the paperwork and he
was going to call it the Shady Veil Golf Course.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
But yeah, this is hilarious.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
As the story goes, he didn't know how to spell vail.
I guess if it was va il or va l e.
So he just said, uh, putt putt and wrote down putt.
But it wasn't something he brainstormed. Apparently, it was just
sort of on a whim. Yeah, and it's a name
that really really stuck. It's kind of brilliant and it's simplicity,
(33:22):
I think divine inspiration.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
It almost feels like did that. It just kind of
happened on a whim. That's just absolutely great. But he
started to kind of build the whole thing into like
this enormous industry pretty quickly because he was right. You know,
there's I did the math. If they made their fifty
two hundred dollars back in twenty nine days, that means
that over that month they had twenty thousand, eight hundred
(33:46):
paying customers. It was a quarter game, twenty five cents
a game. Yeah, that's a lot of And so when
they really got together and started putt putt like they
he was right. He was onto something and it started
to take off pretty quickly. Apparently had its peak when
you and I were going to putt putt. They were
(34:06):
they had something like two hundred and fifty six courses
throughout the world, mostly in the US and Canada, but
also in Australia and South Africa and New Zealand, and
it was it was definitely a thing. Like you said,
all of the holes were part twos, right.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
Yeah, And this was just to be clear, two fifty
six didn't sound like a lot compared to the fifty
thousand that they had in the nineteen thirties. But this
was his his own putt putt golfing games franchise. There
was plenty of more putt putt going on in the
United States than that.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
Right, right, right, yeah, like knockoff putt putt right.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
Yeah, Like the one in Stowe Mountain Park wasn't a
putt putt golfing games. It was just putt putt, but
it was it was great.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
It's called Tap Tap.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
They also had trail skate across from the Putt Putt
which was a roller skating trail through the woods. What. Yeah,
it was like this two mile paved you know, just
basically like a big paved sidewalk through the woods, and
they rented roller skates and you just skate through the woods.
It was really cool, man, that's awesome.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
Country folk just have some of the best ideas for businesses,
you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
I didn't think of it as country folk, but I
guess it kind.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
Of wash roller skating through the woods this country, I
guess it is. That's like Dolly Parton level country.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
So yeah, they're all part twos and it is. It
is tough. It's challenging. Apparently, in the sixty five year
history of putt putt. There have only been three perfect
games where you walk away with a score of eighteen,
which is that's really tough to do.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
I mean, like of the millions and millions of games
of putt putt that people have played, only three people
have ever ever gotten a perfect game, which kind of
shows you how like deceptively hard card a putt putt courses,
you know, like each one of those, each one of
those courses made of I think they have something like
one hundred and eight trademarked holes or like lanes I
(36:12):
think is what they're called a miniature golf to where
you can just kind of take them and reconfigure them
into different different configurations. But they have one hundred and
eight total, and I guess each one of them is very,
very difficult. I don't ever remember getting a perfect game,
or even imagining that I was going to get a
perfect game.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
Now, im you get two or three holes in one
and that's a good day for sure.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
So eighteen. There's actually a short I think seven and
a half minute grant Land documentary on the most recent
perfect put putt game by a guy named Rick Baird,
who had his perfect game in twenty eleven.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
Can you imagine the tension on Hoole eighteen.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
They capture it really well in this in this documentary.
It's really well done. They've got like a cartoon version
of him putting, and he's got like cartoon sweat just
running down his faith. Oh man, really great. So nervous. Yeah,
it was very nervous, and he did it. And he's
actually a miniature golf pro in his spare time, which
(37:13):
we'll talk about later. But there's So he's from Charlotte,
Don Clayton was from Fayetteville, and then Joseph Barber was
from Pinehurst. So it seems pretty clear that North Carolina
is the ancestral home of miniature golfer at least the
spiritual home of miniature golf in the world. Frankly, I'm
(37:35):
just going to say it, in the world.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
Yeah. And if you're looking for the creators of the
kind of mechanized courses, you can go to nineteen fifty
five and Scranton, PA with Ralph and al Loma. Previous
to this, you know, you had the Putt Putt, which
just had the sort of regular obstacles. You had the
tom Thumb, which had kind of more outrageous whimsy, but
(37:58):
still things weren't moving, and these are the guys that
brought in these rotating windmill blades or ramps that moved
back and forth, and they really kind of kicked that
to the next level. And they, you know, they went
into business big time. They started mass producing these things,
like the actual components, and sold a ton of them
all over the world.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
Yeah, I think like five thousand courses, Yeah, which is
pretty impressive. They're the ones who came up with what
we think of now as like miniature golf and goofy
golf with the moving stuff, not a fan, the clown mouth,
don't forget the clown mouth that opens and closes or yeah,
like you say, a windmill. So it's kind of interesting
that Don Clayton brought miniature golf back to its roots
(38:44):
of being a lot more like regular golf, and then
very shortly after that branched off the Lomas who brought
it back to that Tom thumb roots. So that whole thing,
the evolution of miniature golf happened twice in just the
same way.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
That interesting, Yeah, and it also came back full circle
in the nineties with a return to the sort of
that original miniature golf because real golfers, people like Jack
Nicholas started to get involved. I'm sure there were dollar signs,
you know, in his eyes. Sure, but he also probably
loved it. I don't want to be cynical, but I'm
(39:20):
sure he made some money. But they have competitions, you know,
there are actual prize purses. There is a US Pro
Mini Golf Association. They have their own Little US Open.
I don't think they call it the Little US Open.
They should, They totally should. There's the World Mini Golf
Sports Federation in Germany and they sort of are the
(39:44):
body that standardizes the obstacles and stuff like that. I
guess what you can have and what you can't have, yeah,
which is kind of funny when you think about it.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
It is, but it's a pretty interesting list. You're like, oh,
that'd be tough. Oh that's hard, the slope circle with
a v obstac Yeah, it's just plain difficult. And I
think they should call it the teeny Weenie US Open.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
Welcome back to the teeny Weenie That's open.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
I was looking at the US Pro Mini Golf Association's
website and there was a Tennessee State Open, and man,
the picture that they have of that course. It looks serious, dude.
Speaker 2 (40:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
So like if you go to put putt and you
always were like, I love this. This is so challenging.
I can score like a sixteen or I guess not
a sixteen. I just don't play the last two holes
when I'm on a streak, you know, like a twenty
or a twenty two or something like that. You might
actually have fun being a miniature golf pro. And there
(40:46):
are some serious courses out there for you to play
that are a couple of notches above your average putt
putt course.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
I'd like to play one of those, would you.
Speaker 1 (40:56):
I don't know, if I would have fun, I'd make
a run club.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
Should we talk about some of these famous courses?
Speaker 1 (41:04):
Yeah? So, from what I can tell, the United States
is the home of miniature golf. It's the capital of
the miniature golf. I don't believe there's any country like
I was looking at I was like, maybe Thailand is
like even more into it than the United States. I
don't think so. I think the United States is the
place that has the most miniature golf courses and has
(41:25):
probably the most paying customers for miniature golf courses.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
I could see Japan.
Speaker 1 (41:30):
I could too, and I don't see anything like that. Yeah,
I didn't see anything like it. So the United States
is the home of miniature golf and the world capital
of miniature golf. Then is Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, which
is ironic that it's not North Carolina, but it's not everybody, I'm.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
Sorry, Yeah, I mean Myrtle Beach is sort of one
of those classic old school beach towns that has all
of the go karts and the bumper boats and the
mini golf. And they have one called Molten Mountain that's
pretty cool. Like you should go check out pictures to
some of these places. There are a lot of fun
that has a volcano, a working volcano that erupts every
(42:06):
half hour, and it's sort of an inside and an
out thing, like I think it's both indoors and outdoors,
right it is.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
Yeah, it's a pretty it's a pretty great one. And
the whole volcano thing, they're not the only one that's
how nutso Myrtle Beaches, there's another one called Hawaiian Rumble
that also has a functioning volcano. Two And in fact,
on Highway seventeen there's a thirty mile stretch of it
that goes through Myrtle Beach, where there's fifty more than
fifty miniature golf courses in a thirty mile stretch.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
Yeah, through and I'm sure a lot of opinions on
which ones are good and which one stink.
Speaker 1 (42:41):
Yep, there's one I want to go to in Palatine, Illinois.
I think it's a couple of these from Travel and Leisure.
Maybe this one's called algrim Acres alghri i m Acres.
It's in Palatine, Illinois, Illinois, and it's a funeral home,
like for real in real life.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
Yeah, like you know, they take care of dead bodies
and you can also play nine holes on their death
themed course in the basement.
Speaker 1 (43:10):
In the basement. First of all, the basement of a
funeral home is just creepy on its own. Yeah, But
a death themed miniature golf course in a funeral home
that actually functions, that's just downright interesting.
Speaker 2 (43:23):
Yeah. There's this one in Las Vegas too, the kiss
themed one which I checked out on YouTube. I would
I would play this, even though it goes against two
things for me, which is not into indoor miniature golf.
I really would like to be outside and I think
Kiss sucks.
Speaker 1 (43:41):
What I thought you were a Kiss fan. No, oh, man,
I thought you were a Kiss fan.
Speaker 2 (43:46):
No, not a Kiss fan never. I mean, you know,
I get it, and I think it's kind of fun
and funny. Sure, but I never thought Kiss was like
played good rock and roll songs.
Speaker 1 (43:55):
Really, that's very surprising.
Speaker 2 (43:57):
I know Kiss fans are going to be so mad
at me for saying their music is not good. But
I mean there's a reason they dressed up and spit blood.
Speaker 1 (44:03):
And stuff, so there's a But it's still it'd be
worth playing. I agree, No, it looked fun. The one
that I would actually travel to go play is called Parking.
It's in Lincolnshire, Illinois, so I probably go there and
then i'd dip down or dip up. I'm not sure
to Palatine to play at algam Akers. Okay, but Parking
(44:24):
is like exactly what it is. It's the pinnacle of
a miniature golf course. If you ask me, it's got
it all. It's difficult, and it has all of the
amazing obstacles and weird traps and functioning problems to figure
out that a miniature golf course should have.
Speaker 2 (44:43):
It looked pretty cool. I mean, I'm a putt putt guy,
but I was checking out pictures and stuff. I would go.
I would go to parking with you, for sure.
Speaker 1 (44:50):
Okay, we'll go. It's going to be a summer trip
in twenty twenty two or three.
Speaker 2 (44:55):
Fantastic.
Speaker 1 (44:57):
And then if you want to play, so I think, chuck,
this one would be up your alley. It's called Golf
Gardens and on Catalina Island in.
Speaker 2 (45:04):
SoCal Yeah, right up my alley.
Speaker 1 (45:06):
This one is like considered the hardest miniature golf course
in the United States, not just because it's difficultly laid out,
but also because it's been played so much that's got
all sorts of weird notches and stuff that's not supposed
to be there in the playing surface, so that makes
it all the more difficult, which is kind of neat.
Speaker 2 (45:25):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (45:26):
And then if you want to go retro, I think
that one's been around a while, you can go down
to Florida and they have a historic mini golf trail
that takes you from a miniature golf course, a miniature
golf course, all of which have been around for at
least fifty years. Amazing, And if you like weird old
stuff that's not in use anymore. Look up abandoned miniature
(45:47):
golf courses. That's a fun thing to do. And since
I said it's a fun thing to do, everybody, that
means it's time for listener mail.
Speaker 2 (45:55):
All right, I'm gonna call this dad mail. Got this
very sweet email. I love. But when the famili's listen,
you know, M sure, especially when they're not. I mean,
I like families with young kids that listen, but I
also like it when the it's adults and then older
parents that are listening.
Speaker 1 (46:10):
Right.
Speaker 2 (46:11):
Hey, guys, hope you're hanging in there. These are such
tricky times. I know you're I'm not the only listener
that turns to your show for a distraction, or a
soundtrack to washing dishes, or background noise while trying to run,
or just something that feels normal during these abnormal times.
A couple of years ago, my now husband and I
took a road trip with my parents to stay with
my now in laws. As we pulled out of the driveway,
we put on stuff you Should Know and spent the
(46:32):
entire journey sharing your catalog with them, and they were
immediately hooked. My parents continue to love your podcast, but
every time my dad refers to it, he mixes up
the name. I love this stuff. So far, he's called
to you guys you should know. Sure, stuff you ought
to know, Yeah, things you need to know and stuff guys.
Speaker 1 (46:55):
Stuff guys is that's a good nickname.
Speaker 2 (46:58):
Lately he's just been referring to you as the guys podcast,
which is close enough for me.
Speaker 1 (47:03):
Eventually, we're just gonna get to the Yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:07):
Thanks for all the amazing work and the thoughtful approach
you have to podcasting. So grateful to have multiple episodes
to listen to every week. That is from Marabeth, and
she says, ps, I should add that the episode on
fractals is now infamously nap inducing in my family, but
I blame the long stretch of highway on that.
Speaker 1 (47:26):
Thank you. That was very kind of you, nice say,
really pulled it out at the end there. Who is
that Marabeth?
Speaker 2 (47:33):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (47:34):
Well, if you want to be like Marabeth and get
in touch with us, we would appreciate that. Right now.
You can send it to us via email. It's the
best way to reach us at Stuff Podcast at iHeartRadio
dot com.
Speaker 2 (47:48):
Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For
more podcasts, My heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Hey, everyone, I thought it would be nice to ring
in the new year with an easy select filled with
Chuck and Me reminiscing about our childhood memories of Putt
Pud and slush puppies. So for this week's Select, I
give you our August twenty twenty episode, a miniature golf
and want to take a moment to wish my dear wife, Yumy,
a happy birthday. So happy birthday, Yummy, And to you
(00:21):
dear listeners, Happy New Year.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and
there's Charles w Chuck Bryan over there, and there's Jerry
there figuring out all the new contrivances of modern life.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Yeah, I mean we should tell people what's going on.
I think it's interesting, right, No, well, I'm gonna tell him. Fine,
So Jerry is figured out now how to operate the
studio Macintosh recording system. Sure, and not be in the office.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
It's pretty great. It's COVID terrific.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Actually, And so she was just up on our Skype
on video and she's still there. But when she switched
it to mute, it went to that distressing picture. Do
you see that thing?
Speaker 1 (01:20):
No, I just see JR. Like the letter J in
the letter R.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Oh see there she is. She's back.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
When she turned it off, though, was I get a
photograph of Jerry that looks like she's like sick in
bed or something. It's weird.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
This is a well that's just Jerry's look.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Maybe so, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
That's a diet of nothing but miso for fifteen twenty
years will do for you.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
The weirdest thing is this is as close as we've
come to normal in four months.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
I know. Not only is it like normal, it's almost
like a throwback. Remember when we had the studio where
we would look out the window when she was there. Yeah, yeah,
that was great. It's kind of like this again. She
was a window creeper yeap, professionally and in her personal
life too.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
So this is stuff you should know everybody. I don't
know if I said it. There are probably a few
people who are confused and aren't anymore. But we haven't
gotten started yet, so prepare to be confused again. When
we explained something in particular, Chuck Miniature.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Golf, I gotta ask, are you a fan.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Uh, this made me want to play again. Like I
grew up playing putt putt or and have very fond
memories of all the different colored golf balls, you know,
like the water trap that was really just a stagnant
little puddle of concrete. You know. Put pet was wonderful
and great, and there were arcades and birthday parties there
(02:46):
that featured heavily with g I. Joe action figures and
stuff like that, the good kind of three and three
quarter inch ones. M h. And yeah, I am a fan,
if not just nostalgically in general.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Yes, and which style And as you as a listener
will see soon, there are a couple of different things.
But did you grow up playing just sort of the
bare bones putt putt or the more miniature golf clown's mouth,
windmill volcano?
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Well, chuck. If you ask me if I had a
rich childhood, I will always tell you yes, sir, Yes
I did. And the reason why is because I grew
up having putt putt close by in Toledo, and we
played that a lot. And then when my family would
vacation in the summers on Catawba Island on Lake Erie,
and this is like pre cleaned up Lake Erie. There
(03:39):
was a like a run down little like mini golf
with like clowns, mouths and windmills and all that stuff
right by the place where we used to stay, like
walking distance, and so we'd play there a lot too.
So I had the best of both worlds, a really great,
just top notch childhood.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
So I grew up playing putt putt at Stone Mountain Park,
which we went to a lot because it was near
our church and the youth group would go and do
putt putt nights and stuff. So that was a lot
of fun. And I was sort of partial to those
that were like, you know, the real putt putt where
it requires a little bit of skill. But I am
(04:17):
also a sucker for the beach Town volcano, waterfall, go
kart bumper boat arcade scene.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Yep, don't forget laser tag.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
I never really did laser tag. I think that came
around a little after I was, you know, in my
prime years for this kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Gotcha, Yeah, it wasn't the same here, but I was
looking up. Now they have laser tag at putt putt places.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
But I still love those go karts. Man, when we
go to Isle of palms. Last year, I found a
place nearby. I was like, we got to go, and
everyone was kind of like, oh, I don't know, and
the kids are sort of like, yeah, I guess I'll
do it. I was like, guys, we gotta go.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Right, Like, what is wrong with all of you? Who
are you vacchening with? Chuck?
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Man, it was so much a carbon monoxide leak at
the house.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
You wran no those go karts. I could do that
all day long.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
And of course I got the guy, you know, the teenager,
squeaky voice, teenager, and I said, hey, man, which one
which was? Which is the fast one? Means like number eight?
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Really?
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Oh yeah? And sure enough it was really fast.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
You just ran circles around everybody.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
I did such that I even laid off on the
gas a little bit just to catch up and let people,
you know, act like they outrace What a sportsman?
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Oh my goodness. Well we'll talk about go karts one
day more in depth, but today we're just going to
focus on the miniature golf.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Okay, Yeah, this is a pretty interesting history, I think.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Yeah, I had no idea how far back it went
until we started researching this and actually it goes all
the way back to the nineteenth century. And this is
one of those rare things that's been around a while,
but you can actually pinpoint like the first one and
the first miniature golf course in the world as far
as anybody knows, is that Saint Andrews. It's the Ladies
(06:09):
Putting Club of Saint Andrews and it was built in
eighteen sixty seven strictly for the women members of the
Ladies Putting Club.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Yeah, there's a couple of things that play here. Actually
really just one thing, which is not letting women do
things because there was a decree basically that women shall
not take the club back past their shoulder.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Commandment.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Yeah, like a real golf swing in other words, was
I guess improper for a for a lady to do.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
The Victorian era was just so stupid when it came
to social constraints.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
I'm trying to figure out why does that I don't know, ditriarchy.
I would guess, well, I just wonder why a full
golf swing would it make their their dress rate rise
above the ankle or like, I just wonder why.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
I think also women were expected to not over exert
themselves physically especially in public too, right, it could kind
of construe that as over exertion.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Well, and then there's this, which is from an eighteen
ninety book by Scottish baron Lord Wellwood talking about women
and when they should golf, when they shouldn't golf, if
they choose. I was going to do a Scottish accent,
but I'm just not feeling it. If they choose to play.
At times when male golfers are feeding or resting, no
(07:33):
one can object, But at other times, must we say it?
They are in the way.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
It was kind of snarky to add even the must
we say it? Like, do I even need to write
this next sentence? It's so just drippingly obvious.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
But the upshot of this is that's why they created
the Ladies Putting Club is just to sort of get
rid of them.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
Yeah, to get them out of the way of the men.
But the joke was on the men because this Putting Green,
this first miniature golf course in the world, is still
around and it's still considered one of the finest. That's
actually nicknamed the Himalayas because it has all these kind
of mountains and hills and hillocks all built into it,
and they really kind of stand out from what I
(08:17):
understand against like the Scottish Sea scape, and it's a
really revered miniature golf course. But it is exactly what
it sounds like. It is a golf course in miniature,
Like just like you take a classic golf course of
the variety that was born in Scotland and you just
kind of hit it with a shrink ray and then
(08:39):
you have a genuine, bona fide miniature golf course. And
that's how the whole thing started out.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Yeah, I mean that's what we would call like a
par three today.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Right, kind of it seems like par three courses are
a little different, So this is like, yes, I think
it does require more than just a putter, right, par
three would require more than a putter. But there seems
to be a few different other kinds of golf courses
aside from the miniature golf course. There's the par three,
(09:10):
the pitch and putt and executive courses all kind of
qualified technically as miniature golf courses in different ways.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Yeah, the executive course they got the name because evidently
an executive could go play a quick ground during lunch.
A lot of par three's you might have a like
one par five and a couple of par fours. Is
that right on a par three on an executive course?
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Oh okay, Yeah, that's what. That's really the only thing
from what I can tell, that differentiates it from a
par three course.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Yeah, it's it's it's a golf course is just shorter
and therefore doesn't take as long.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Yeah. And it's not like the hole is smaller and
the ball is smaller and the clubs are smaller, like
just get out of your fantasy land there. Instead, it's
just the distance from the tee to the hole is shorter.
There's fewer bends and stuff like that, so the actual
experience takes less time and less energy and you can
(10:05):
just kind of fit it in in a shorter amount
of time. And I think that's the popularity of those
things generally. Although pitch and putt courses I also saw there.
They usually consist of a wedge and iron and a
putter of what you need to play on those and
they're all about the focus on the short game. And
as a result, men and women, just average men and
(10:26):
women who play golf can kind of compete pretty evenly
because it's all about the short game. It's all about
finesse rather than you know, just cher power of driving
as far as you can on like a traditional golf course.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Yeah, I mean I'd love golf. I just don't play anymore.
Like I grew up playing golf and was not good,
but I wasn't terrible for as much as I played,
and I still like it. I just don't, you know,
have the time or the inclination anymore. But I like
the big boy courses with the big par fives. But
I also love a fun little part three, Like Florida
(10:59):
has a lot of these beautiful par threes, including some
you can play at night that are all lit up,
and that's always a lot of fun too.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Yeah. I tried to get acquainted with golf as a youngster.
My family had, weirdly enough, because this is not like
my family at all, had a membership at heather Down's
Country Club. Yeah, and I love the pool because they
had like, you know, tons of slush puppies and the
best like nasty hot dogs you can imagine, and there
(11:30):
was a pool and all that. I think I told
you the story about Swim League, the swim team where
I was the worst swimmer on it.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
But I also tried to golf for a couple of
summers and it just didn't didn't take it up. But
I was back in Toledo like a couple of years ago,
I think, right before our Cleveland show, and I visited
the country club. Well, I just drove by and I looked,
and the pool is now just like a green field.
It's been filled in, like the little the little snack
(11:57):
shop has been torn down. I'm like, something really bad
must have happened there for them to do that to
the pool.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
You know. Yeah, there's the And I didn't get to
go here much because it was private. But Hidden Hills
was a big neighborhood near my house that had a
country club that's still around, isn't it. Well, the neighborhood's there,
but you know, the neighborhood has seen its better days.
And the country club and golf course is completely just
shut down and grown over. It's really it looks well,
(12:24):
it is an abandoned place.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
That's so cool.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
It is kind of cool. And then I had the
idea of a movie, like a old school type thing
where a bunch of old a bunch of like middle
aged men that grew up there go back and raise
some money and try and like clean the place up
and get it going again. Yeah, to hilarity.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
There has to be like a greedy developer that they're battling, right.
Oh yeah, so is that the neighborhood that we got
kicked out of when we tried to go shoot like
without a license once around that area? Remember the security
guard came up. It was like, stop what you're doing?
Speaker 2 (12:58):
I don't remember that?
Speaker 1 (12:59):
Yeah, up in one day? Was it on the TV
show and Gorilla? No, it was like when we were
shooting shorts.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
I think I don't remember that.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that was the one.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Should we take a break already?
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Sure?
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Okay, all right, we'll get back and we'll talk about
where many golf went from here right after this.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Definitely should know lars of each y s k as
why why s k? You should know? All right, so
(13:42):
we're back. Nothing we've talked about right now constitutes miniature
golf in the mind of anybody who here's the words
miniature golf, right, Like, what what comes to mind are
things like putt putt or goofy golf, or windmills or
clowns or happy Gilmour or something like that, right, Yeah,
so that all started. Actually that didn't quite start yet.
(14:04):
It was really leading up to that. And then I
realized we had to keep going with regular miniature golf
one more time because it has to spread to America.
And it did, and we can actually trace that too,
to the house of a guy named James Barber, who
is an immigrant from England who was familiar with the
course the Ladies Punning Club at Saint Andrews. And he
(14:25):
was rich enough that he said, you know, I want
a miniature golf course built on my estate at Pinehurst,
North Carolina. And he did. He had like an eighteen
hole miniature course built right there in his formal gardens
and it's just absolutely beautiful.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
It is nice. And this was the first one in
the United States. And as it's called thistle Do Thhi
s t l E d Hu and supposedly, as legend goes,
he when he first saw it he said, this will do.
I guess he was. He was not blown away, maybe
I don't know, so dwelling.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
He wasn't one of those spoiled brat, you know, robber barons,
and instead was like, this will do, this will do
quite nicely. And they just left off the second part,
you know.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Yeah, but it's called this will do. And they started
hosting competitions a couple of years later, and I think
this is the first time miniature golf was ever used,
like those words wherever you use to describe the Pinehurst outlook?
Was that the newspaper, I.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Guess, yeah, it's their one claim to fame. Oh you
know it's true though, it's probably true. Yeah, but that
they were the one that in an account of the competition,
they coined the term miniature golf. Up to that point,
a lot of people had called it little Apputian golf, sure,
after the the little people in Gulliver Gulliver's Travels, and
(15:51):
that actually that name actually stuck for quite a while.
So we've got James Barber, who hosted or built the
first miniature golf course in America. But still this thing
is like directly connected to the Ladies Putting Club of
Saint Andrews. It's a golf course in miniature. We still
(16:11):
haven't quite reached what we would consider miniature golf. And
that wouldn't happen until nineteen twenty six, which turned out
to be a really big year for miniature golf in America.
It was like there was something in the air and
a few different people kind of tapped into it around
the same time and it suddenly just took off like
a rocket.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Yeah. Two of the guys were some entrepreneurs named Drake
del Delinois. I guess name John Ledbetter another good name,
and it's okay.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
He sounds like he'll he'll shoot you.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
He'll led Better.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Yeah, yeah, I can see that.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
They did a pretty cool thing, which is they opened
up a course on top of a rooftop in the
Financial District in New York, and that kicked off a trend.
There were I think about one hundred of those on
top of roofs. I guess it's before the big rooftop
bar hotel scene. They had golf courses up there.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Yeah, miniature golf courses. But again though those were like
miniature golf courses, so that I mean, that was a
big deal in New York. Just one hundred rooftop golf
miniature golf course alone in the twenties, That's that's a
tremendous amount. And I don't think there's a single one left.
Actually there should be, there's there's so that kind of
(17:28):
makes the whole. You know, there's one on top of
Pont City Market where the house Stuff Works office is.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Is there golf up there?
Speaker 1 (17:35):
There's a miniature golf course up there, and it makes
a lot more sense now. Yeah, it's kind of like
a whole mini Coney Island up there. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
I mean, I think I've only been up there when
we had work events, and the only thing I did
was the slide.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
I didn't know there was a slide.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Yeah, there's like a you know, you sit in a
potato sack and go down the big slide.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
Okay, yeah, yeah, I got it that.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
That was fun.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Yeah, there's a there's a miniature golf course up there.
We'll have to play sometime when the whole pandemic passes totally.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
And then later that same year you said it was
kind of a boomy or for mini golf. Lookout Mountain,
Tennessee and Chattanooga, which is a place where I think
everybody should go to see Ruby Falls in Rock City. Oh, yes,
it is a tourist trap, but it's actually kind of neat.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
I mean, the greatest of the great tourist traps and
it still holds up too.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Yeah, get a pecan log Oh my god, those are
so good.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
They are so good. That's what. That also supports my
theory that candy was perfected in the nineteenth century. I
never remember nugat honeycomb. Sure pecan logs.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Was that. I didn't know pecan logs were from way
back then, but I believe it.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
Yeah, for sure, they're definitely old timing.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
So these people, Garnett and FRIEDA. Carter, they built a
resort called Faeryland Club and it was part of that
whole sort of interconnected scene there with Rock City and
Ruby Falls. And they built a miniature golf course and
they said, you know what, if you like golf, maybe
(19:10):
you should try mini golf because it doesn't take very long.
It'll kind of scratch that itch if you're not able
to play a real round. And that's sort of how
they marketed it at first. And they they were the
first people, I think, to start adding the obstacles, right
they did.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Yeah, And they used as they were building like the
inn and the resort complex, they used some of the
construction materials like train pipes and you know, barrels and
things like that and built them as hazards. And then
because they had this whole like fairy tale theme going
up there. They also built rock City. They were the
(19:45):
ones who built Rock City, and that has like a cool,
little weird, weird but also very neat fairy tale theme
kind of hidden throughout. They added that to their miniature
golf course, so they had these stationary obstacles and hazards
that they added, and then they also added this statuary
of cute little you know, mother goose type stuff, and
(20:08):
they actually called the whole thing Tom Thumb Golf, and
Tom Thumb, from what I understand, is the earliest recorded
English fairy tale character from back in sixteen twenty one.
And he was a little tiny guy the size of
his father's thumb, which is where he got his name,
so it was a pretty appropriate name. They must have
really like been pretty pleased with themselves when they decided
(20:30):
to call it Tom Thumb Golf, because it really it
checked all the boxes.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Yeah, and we should mention too, we keep saying Rock City,
and if you're not from the southeast, you might think
it's just some like redneck area with a bunch of rocks.
It's actually a very sweet natural wonder. It's caves that
you walk through caves.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
It's huge boulders being held up by much much smaller boulders. Yea,
that's really not that way for probably tens of thousands
of years. That you walk under their is like yeah,
there's little cave areas that you kind of duck into,
and they have little fairy tale scenes with fluorescent day
or fluorescent yeah, I guess kind of daglaz.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
It's like glow in the dark, weird.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
Like gnomes in fairy tale scenes.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Like that's the weird part. It's like if Carlsbad Caverns
had you know, some corny fairy theme mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
And then Ruby Falls is really neat too. Yeah, it's
a very cool, like natural attraction that they've done a
good job of like underground water making it easy to
make your way to. But yeah, it's the whole thing
is definitely worth going to. And then of course they
have this the very famous like Sea Rock City barn
sides that everybody's right of and that was that was
(21:45):
Garnet Carter who painted one man, or paid one man
to go around and offer to give a fresh coat
of paint to barns all throughout the Southeast in exchange
for letting them paint Sea Rock City on the side.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Yeah, it's if you've ever driven around the North Carolina
South Carolina area and South of the Border, you know,
I'm talking about.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
South of the Mason Dixon line.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
No, South of the Border is the name of this
sort of highway tourist trap.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
No, I haven't heard of that.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Yeah, it's it's it's the same deal. I think it's
I want to say it's North Carolina. But it's basically
like a glorified rest stop with that has a Mexican
theme where you can go, like, I don't know, see
mariachi band and eat good food and buy cheap Chokski's.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
The only mariachi band in all of North Carolina.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
But what made me think about it it might be
was that they have the same thing for like hundreds
of miles in any direction, for South of the Border
and Rock City. They're very famous for these billboards that
tell you like, oh, it's coming, You're getting closer, You're
getting closer.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
That's really strange that I've never heard of that. Then, yeah,
South of the Border check it's not been paying attention.
So so the Carter's built like this Tom Thumb golf course.
And again, originally they just did this as kind of
an amenity their Fairyland Inn in Fairyland Club. But it
was such a smash hit and Garnet Carter was such
(23:08):
a born businessman that they were like, I think there
might be something to this, and they saw either they
saw it out or he sought them. I'm not quite
sure how it happened. But there was another guy who
really factors bigly into this whole story, but he's very
frequently overlooked, and his name is Thomas McCullough Fairburn. McCullough Fairburn. Yeah,
(23:33):
and he invented a really cheap and easy technique for
creating artificial putting greens that could be used for miniature
golf courses.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Yeah. It was a crush cottonseed holes oil, you would
diet green and they would come in these big roles
and you just roll it over this foundation of sand
and boom. You've got an easy way basically to sort
of franchise these things with these prefab kit that they had,
and people loved it because it was you know, when
(24:06):
it was they called it midget golf for a little while,
not a term we would use today, but it's what
they called it in the nineteen twenties, right, And this
factors into a lot of stuff we've been talking about
with the nineteen twenties lately, just these weird fads that
would pop up, and tom Thumb golf was one of them.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
It was. And part of the reason that it got
out from Lookout Mountain is because the Carters and Fairburn
kind of joined forces and used his technique for making
these greens very cheaply and used their kind of like
touch of whimsy, packaged it together and started selling it
prepackaged sets or prefabricated sets that could be franchised out
(24:47):
to anybody who wanted to start their own Tom Thumb
golf course. And so they spread really really quickly, and
like you were saying, like the twenties, they were just
looking for whatever craze could come along. Crossroad puzzles, dance marathon,
flag pole sitting. Well, apparently miniature golf was the king
of them all as far as the twenties crazes went.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Yeah, this is a pretty startling statistic. In August of
nineteen thirty, the Commerce Department said that there were and
apparently this could be low by even as much as
half twenty five thousand twenty five thousand mini golf courses
in the US, half of which were built in that
previous six or eight months of the year.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Yeah, it's a boom right there.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
Can you imagine like in eight months, like twelve to
fifteen thousand many golf courses being built in the US.
It's crazy.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
I can just imagine Garnet and freeda carter just rolling
around on a bed of money in their suite at
the fairy Land in Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
And I mean in a legit like job boosting market.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
Yeah. No, Well that's another thing too, right, I mean,
like there was a like flagpole sitting didn't make the
transition into the depression, and dance marathons did, but they
got kind of grim apparently. Miniature golf and I've seen both,
but miniature golf seems to have made the transition from
twenties craze to you know, kind of national pastime. That
(26:14):
that made sense in the depression because you could take
your whole family out to play miniature golf for pretty cheap,
so that was a big attraction. And then also if
you were like a golf junkie, but all of a
sudden you didn't have the money to afford greens fees
any longer at the very least you could go play
some miniature golf somewhere. So it kind of scratched that
(26:37):
itch to a certain a certain degree. So there was
like a lot of popularity that even after the craze
kind of crested and waned a little bit, it's still
carried on pretty pretty thoroughly through the nineteen thirties. And
as a matter of fact, Chuck, some people were like
that Tom Thumb Golf, the official franchise Tom Thumb Golf,
(26:57):
it's a little rich for my blood. What else she
got for me?
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Yeah, Like, why can't we just do this?
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Well, yeah, exactly. Local entrepreneurs were like, I got exactly
the thing, buddy, you want to play half priced miniature golf,
come on in.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
Like I've got a bunch of PVC pipe playing around.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Yeah or yeah. So just basically whatever found objects you
could find, you could you could come across what we're
called rinky dink miniature golf courses that were basically knockoff
Tom Thumb courses that used whatever found objects the person
who built it head lying around.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
Yeah, New York had about one hundred and fifty of them. Washington,
DC had thirty. One of those is still around the
East Potomac Park course. Yeah, and yeah, the whole family
could get involved. And I think one of the keys
then and now to mini golf being popular and then
putt putt, which we'll see here in a minute, is
that you don't even have to like golf at all.
(27:55):
You can hate golf and still go do putt putt
and probably have a good time.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
Yeah, as long as you don't take it too seriously.
Don't take it too seriously. Please don't just really don't
be that guy. That's what it's for. You want to
take a break in the talk put putt? Yes, okay,
let's do that. Everybody definitely should know.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
Y s K as what why s K?
Speaker 1 (28:34):
You should know?
Speaker 2 (28:38):
Are we there?
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Who me?
Speaker 2 (28:40):
Are we there are?
Speaker 1 (28:41):
But I thought you said are you there? I'm like, yeah,
I'm here. We are there, chuck, because let me set
the set the table here? Are you ready?
Speaker 2 (28:49):
Yes, I'm hungry.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
America got a little burned out on miniature golf, especially
the tom thumb and rinkyding varieties, and so a lot
of it died out, but some remained, some hopped along,
some are still around today actually, and by the nineteen fifties,
there was a guy who was playing at one of
these courses in Fayetteville, North Carolina, which remember was the
(29:15):
home of miniature golf in the United States. North Carolina
is and he happened to have just gotten a prescription
from his doctor saying, you're about to have a nervous breakdown.
I prescribe you a month's rest from work. And this guy,
Don Clayton, said, can do and he started playing miniature golf,
but he wasn't quite satisfied with it.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Yeah. I imagine if you were on the verge of
a nervous breakdown, then Tom Thumb golf is a nice
salve for that kind of experience.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
Sure, if you're charmed by all the whimsical stuff.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
And you don't take it too seriously.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
Right from what I understand though, Don Clayton was like,
this whimsy sucks. We need something better than this, and
I think I'm just the person to build it.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
Yeah, So he had the idea to to basically make
miniature golf but without all the garbage, no clown's mouths,
no windmills, and have a little like have a little
skill involved, like you can go out there and if
you're like a good putter, you can actually compete and
(30:19):
have a good time and it's still for fun, but
it's just not a silly kids game anymore.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Yeah, Like, anybody who's been to an actual putt putt
course can tell you that it's I mean, there's a
lot of obstacles, and it's interesting and fun and there's
some neat stuff, but it does it just does not
have all of like the the moving bells and whistles
that you're gonna see on like other kinds of miniature golf,
like goofy golf.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
Like the obstacles are usually just like some blocks in
the way and stuff like that. Yeah, yeah, like around
or bank.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
Elevated elevated rhombuses or things like that, or like a labyrinth,
you know, built into it. It's not like a clown
mouth or anything like that, which is kind of like
the go to description for goofy golf, isn't it really?
Speaker 2 (31:06):
Yeah, And I think like the craziest thing you'll see
on a putt putt course is where you those that
are like two levels and you can hit it into
three different holes at the top and you're like you
kind of take a little bit of a gamble as
to where it's going to come out on the bottom. Sure,
it'll either come out close to the hole, so you
can get that part two, and I think they're all
part twos on a real putt putt course, right, or
(31:28):
it'll spit you out way far away. But you still
have a chance to hit that long putt for the two.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
Sure, there's always a chance for you a second chance
at putt putt.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
I think that was the motto.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
So yeah, But so this was Don Clayton's vision. He
was like, I want to make this a little less goofy.
I want to make it a little more interesting and.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
Skillful, less goofy, more golfy.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
Yeah, yeah, chuck man, he just sat up from his
grave going I wish I'd thought of that as he did. Yeah,
he died in nineteen nine, Okay, but he had a
good run. I mean, this is nineteen fifty four when
he was a twenty eight year old man that he
decided to try this. So he went to his dad
and said, hey, I've got this. I've got this idea
rather than basically, as a New York Times obituary put it,
(32:14):
rather than basically making a human sized pinball machine for golf.
We're going to make this a little more interesting. How
about we cobble together fifty two hundred bucks and we're
going to build our own little miniature golf course. And
he did, and like a shaded little lot. And with
that fifty two hundred dollars, they opened for business and
(32:35):
within twenty nine days he and his father had made
one hundred percent of their investment back. And Don Clayton said,
I think there might be something to this whole thing.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
Yeah, so he he was initially going to call it.
He went to the bank to open a business account
and he had to fill out the paperwork and he
was going to call it the Shady Veil Golf Course.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
But yeah, this is hilarious.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
As the story goes, he didn't know how to spell vail.
I guess if it was va il or va l e.
So he just said, uh, putt putt and wrote down putt.
But it wasn't something he brainstormed. Apparently, it was just
sort of on a whim. Yeah, and it's a name
that really really stuck. It's kind of brilliant and it's simplicity,
(33:22):
I think divine inspiration.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
It almost feels like did that. It just kind of
happened on a whim. That's just absolutely great. But he
started to kind of build the whole thing into like
this enormous industry pretty quickly because he was right. You know,
there's I did the math. If they made their fifty
two hundred dollars back in twenty nine days, that means
that over that month they had twenty thousand, eight hundred
(33:46):
paying customers. It was a quarter game, twenty five cents
a game. Yeah, that's a lot of And so when
they really got together and started putt putt like they
he was right. He was onto something and it started
to take off pretty quickly. Apparently had its peak when
you and I were going to putt putt. They were
(34:06):
they had something like two hundred and fifty six courses
throughout the world, mostly in the US and Canada, but
also in Australia and South Africa and New Zealand, and
it was it was definitely a thing. Like you said,
all of the holes were part twos, right.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
Yeah, And this was just to be clear, two fifty
six didn't sound like a lot compared to the fifty
thousand that they had in the nineteen thirties. But this
was his his own putt putt golfing games franchise. There
was plenty of more putt putt going on in the
United States than that.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
Right, right, right, yeah, like knockoff putt putt right.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
Yeah, Like the one in Stowe Mountain Park wasn't a
putt putt golfing games. It was just putt putt, but
it was it was great.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
It's called Tap Tap.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
They also had trail skate across from the Putt Putt
which was a roller skating trail through the woods. What. Yeah,
it was like this two mile paved you know, just
basically like a big paved sidewalk through the woods, and
they rented roller skates and you just skate through the woods.
It was really cool, man, that's awesome.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
Country folk just have some of the best ideas for businesses,
you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
I didn't think of it as country folk, but I
guess it kind.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
Of wash roller skating through the woods this country, I
guess it is. That's like Dolly Parton level country.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
So yeah, they're all part twos and it is. It
is tough. It's challenging. Apparently, in the sixty five year
history of putt putt. There have only been three perfect
games where you walk away with a score of eighteen,
which is that's really tough to do.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
I mean, like of the millions and millions of games
of putt putt that people have played, only three people
have ever ever gotten a perfect game, which kind of
shows you how like deceptively hard card a putt putt courses,
you know, like each one of those, each one of
those courses made of I think they have something like
one hundred and eight trademarked holes or like lanes I
(36:12):
think is what they're called a miniature golf to where
you can just kind of take them and reconfigure them
into different different configurations. But they have one hundred and
eight total, and I guess each one of them is very,
very difficult. I don't ever remember getting a perfect game,
or even imagining that I was going to get a
perfect game.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
Now, im you get two or three holes in one
and that's a good day for sure.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
So eighteen. There's actually a short I think seven and
a half minute grant Land documentary on the most recent
perfect put putt game by a guy named Rick Baird,
who had his perfect game in twenty eleven.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
Can you imagine the tension on Hoole eighteen.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
They capture it really well in this in this documentary.
It's really well done. They've got like a cartoon version
of him putting, and he's got like cartoon sweat just
running down his faith. Oh man, really great. So nervous. Yeah,
it was very nervous, and he did it. And he's
actually a miniature golf pro in his spare time, which
(37:13):
we'll talk about later. But there's So he's from Charlotte,
Don Clayton was from Fayetteville, and then Joseph Barber was
from Pinehurst. So it seems pretty clear that North Carolina
is the ancestral home of miniature golfer at least the
spiritual home of miniature golf in the world. Frankly, I'm
(37:35):
just going to say it, in the world.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
Yeah. And if you're looking for the creators of the
kind of mechanized courses, you can go to nineteen fifty
five and Scranton, PA with Ralph and al Loma. Previous
to this, you know, you had the Putt Putt, which
just had the sort of regular obstacles. You had the
tom Thumb, which had kind of more outrageous whimsy, but
(37:58):
still things weren't moving, and these are the guys that
brought in these rotating windmill blades or ramps that moved
back and forth, and they really kind of kicked that
to the next level. And they, you know, they went
into business big time. They started mass producing these things,
like the actual components, and sold a ton of them
all over the world.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
Yeah, I think like five thousand courses, Yeah, which is
pretty impressive. They're the ones who came up with what
we think of now as like miniature golf and goofy
golf with the moving stuff, not a fan, the clown mouth,
don't forget the clown mouth that opens and closes or yeah,
like you say, a windmill. So it's kind of interesting
that Don Clayton brought miniature golf back to its roots
(38:44):
of being a lot more like regular golf, and then
very shortly after that branched off the Lomas who brought
it back to that Tom thumb roots. So that whole thing,
the evolution of miniature golf happened twice in just the
same way.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
That interesting, Yeah, and it also came back full circle
in the nineties with a return to the sort of
that original miniature golf because real golfers, people like Jack
Nicholas started to get involved. I'm sure there were dollar signs,
you know, in his eyes. Sure, but he also probably
loved it. I don't want to be cynical, but I'm
(39:20):
sure he made some money. But they have competitions, you know,
there are actual prize purses. There is a US Pro
Mini Golf Association. They have their own Little US Open.
I don't think they call it the Little US Open.
They should, They totally should. There's the World Mini Golf
Sports Federation in Germany and they sort of are the
(39:44):
body that standardizes the obstacles and stuff like that. I
guess what you can have and what you can't have, yeah,
which is kind of funny when you think about it.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
It is, but it's a pretty interesting list. You're like, oh,
that'd be tough. Oh that's hard, the slope circle with
a v obstac Yeah, it's just plain difficult. And I
think they should call it the teeny Weenie US Open.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
Welcome back to the teeny Weenie That's open.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
I was looking at the US Pro Mini Golf Association's
website and there was a Tennessee State Open, and man,
the picture that they have of that course. It looks serious, dude.
Speaker 2 (40:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
So like if you go to put putt and you
always were like, I love this. This is so challenging.
I can score like a sixteen or I guess not
a sixteen. I just don't play the last two holes
when I'm on a streak, you know, like a twenty
or a twenty two or something like that. You might
actually have fun being a miniature golf pro. And there
(40:46):
are some serious courses out there for you to play
that are a couple of notches above your average putt
putt course.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
I'd like to play one of those, would you.
Speaker 1 (40:56):
I don't know, if I would have fun, I'd make
a run club.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
Should we talk about some of these famous courses?
Speaker 1 (41:04):
Yeah? So, from what I can tell, the United States
is the home of miniature golf. It's the capital of
the miniature golf. I don't believe there's any country like
I was looking at I was like, maybe Thailand is
like even more into it than the United States. I
don't think so. I think the United States is the
place that has the most miniature golf courses and has
(41:25):
probably the most paying customers for miniature golf courses.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
I could see Japan.
Speaker 1 (41:30):
I could too, and I don't see anything like that. Yeah,
I didn't see anything like it. So the United States
is the home of miniature golf and the world capital
of miniature golf. Then is Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, which
is ironic that it's not North Carolina, but it's not everybody, I'm.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
Sorry, Yeah, I mean Myrtle Beach is sort of one
of those classic old school beach towns that has all
of the go karts and the bumper boats and the
mini golf. And they have one called Molten Mountain that's
pretty cool. Like you should go check out pictures to
some of these places. There are a lot of fun
that has a volcano, a working volcano that erupts every
(42:06):
half hour, and it's sort of an inside and an
out thing, like I think it's both indoors and outdoors,
right it is.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
Yeah, it's a pretty it's a pretty great one. And
the whole volcano thing, they're not the only one that's
how nutso Myrtle Beaches, there's another one called Hawaiian Rumble
that also has a functioning volcano. Two And in fact,
on Highway seventeen there's a thirty mile stretch of it
that goes through Myrtle Beach, where there's fifty more than
fifty miniature golf courses in a thirty mile stretch.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
Yeah, through and I'm sure a lot of opinions on
which ones are good and which one stink.
Speaker 1 (42:41):
Yep, there's one I want to go to in Palatine, Illinois.
I think it's a couple of these from Travel and Leisure.
Maybe this one's called algrim Acres alghri i m Acres.
It's in Palatine, Illinois, Illinois, and it's a funeral home,
like for real in real life.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
Yeah, like you know, they take care of dead bodies
and you can also play nine holes on their death
themed course in the basement.
Speaker 1 (43:10):
In the basement. First of all, the basement of a
funeral home is just creepy on its own. Yeah, But
a death themed miniature golf course in a funeral home
that actually functions, that's just downright interesting.
Speaker 2 (43:23):
Yeah. There's this one in Las Vegas too, the kiss
themed one which I checked out on YouTube. I would
I would play this, even though it goes against two
things for me, which is not into indoor miniature golf.
I really would like to be outside and I think
Kiss sucks.
Speaker 1 (43:41):
What I thought you were a Kiss fan. No, oh, man,
I thought you were a Kiss fan.
Speaker 2 (43:46):
No, not a Kiss fan never. I mean, you know,
I get it, and I think it's kind of fun
and funny. Sure, but I never thought Kiss was like
played good rock and roll songs.
Speaker 1 (43:55):
Really, that's very surprising.
Speaker 2 (43:57):
I know Kiss fans are going to be so mad
at me for saying their music is not good. But
I mean there's a reason they dressed up and spit blood.
Speaker 1 (44:03):
And stuff, so there's a But it's still it'd be
worth playing. I agree, No, it looked fun. The one
that I would actually travel to go play is called Parking.
It's in Lincolnshire, Illinois, so I probably go there and
then i'd dip down or dip up. I'm not sure
to Palatine to play at algam Akers. Okay, but Parking
(44:24):
is like exactly what it is. It's the pinnacle of
a miniature golf course. If you ask me, it's got
it all. It's difficult, and it has all of the
amazing obstacles and weird traps and functioning problems to figure
out that a miniature golf course should have.
Speaker 2 (44:43):
It looked pretty cool. I mean, I'm a putt putt guy,
but I was checking out pictures and stuff. I would go.
I would go to parking with you, for sure.
Speaker 1 (44:50):
Okay, we'll go. It's going to be a summer trip
in twenty twenty two or three.
Speaker 2 (44:55):
Fantastic.
Speaker 1 (44:57):
And then if you want to play, so I think, chuck,
this one would be up your alley. It's called Golf
Gardens and on Catalina Island in.
Speaker 2 (45:04):
SoCal Yeah, right up my alley.
Speaker 1 (45:06):
This one is like considered the hardest miniature golf course
in the United States, not just because it's difficultly laid out,
but also because it's been played so much that's got
all sorts of weird notches and stuff that's not supposed
to be there in the playing surface, so that makes
it all the more difficult, which is kind of neat.
Speaker 2 (45:25):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (45:26):
And then if you want to go retro, I think
that one's been around a while, you can go down
to Florida and they have a historic mini golf trail
that takes you from a miniature golf course, a miniature
golf course, all of which have been around for at
least fifty years. Amazing, And if you like weird old
stuff that's not in use anymore. Look up abandoned miniature
(45:47):
golf courses. That's a fun thing to do. And since
I said it's a fun thing to do, everybody, that
means it's time for listener mail.
Speaker 2 (45:55):
All right, I'm gonna call this dad mail. Got this
very sweet email. I love. But when the famili's listen,
you know, M sure, especially when they're not. I mean,
I like families with young kids that listen, but I
also like it when the it's adults and then older
parents that are listening.
Speaker 1 (46:10):
Right.
Speaker 2 (46:11):
Hey, guys, hope you're hanging in there. These are such
tricky times. I know you're I'm not the only listener
that turns to your show for a distraction, or a
soundtrack to washing dishes, or background noise while trying to run,
or just something that feels normal during these abnormal times.
A couple of years ago, my now husband and I
took a road trip with my parents to stay with
my now in laws. As we pulled out of the driveway,
we put on stuff you Should Know and spent the
(46:32):
entire journey sharing your catalog with them, and they were
immediately hooked. My parents continue to love your podcast, but
every time my dad refers to it, he mixes up
the name. I love this stuff. So far, he's called
to you guys you should know. Sure, stuff you ought
to know, Yeah, things you need to know and stuff guys.
Speaker 1 (46:55):
Stuff guys is that's a good nickname.
Speaker 2 (46:58):
Lately he's just been referring to you as the guys podcast,
which is close enough for me.
Speaker 1 (47:03):
Eventually, we're just gonna get to the Yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:07):
Thanks for all the amazing work and the thoughtful approach
you have to podcasting. So grateful to have multiple episodes
to listen to every week. That is from Marabeth, and
she says, ps, I should add that the episode on
fractals is now infamously nap inducing in my family, but
I blame the long stretch of highway on that.
Speaker 1 (47:26):
Thank you. That was very kind of you, nice say,
really pulled it out at the end there. Who is
that Marabeth?
Speaker 2 (47:33):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (47:34):
Well, if you want to be like Marabeth and get
in touch with us, we would appreciate that. Right now.
You can send it to us via email. It's the
best way to reach us at Stuff Podcast at iHeartRadio
dot com.
Speaker 2 (47:48):
Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For
more podcasts, My heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts,
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