November 12, 2025 • 12 mins
People who’ve found themselves in life-or-death situations with their endurance at its limit have reported sensing another presence with them, urging them to continue on and survive. No one knows what the heck is going on here but it sure is interesting.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hey, and welcome to the Short Stuff. I'm Josh and
there's Chuck and it's just us right now. But that's
okay because we have a third and fourth man with
us today in the form of Jerry and Dave.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
That's right. I feel I sense their presence.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
I do too, and they're guiding us on. They're saying,
come on, you guys, you can finish the short stuff.
It's gonna be a good one.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
I can feel it, Chuck, I think we're gonna be okay.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
We just demonstrated a really weird phenomenon pretty well, if
you ask me, I think we did a great job.
Just now everyone's saying so, but we just demonstrated this
weird phenomenon called the third Man syndrome. There's an author
named John Geiger who for some reason changed syndrome to factor.
But that's typically what it's called, this third man syndrome.
(00:50):
And like I said, it's weird. Chuck, take it away.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
It has nothing to do with the movie The Third Man,
which was good, great movie. And immediately when you sent
this along and I saw the title, I thought it
might have something to do with that. And it doesn't
have to be a man. It really should be the
third person syndrome. Sure, but it is this phenomenon that
has been talked about by many people over hundreds of years.
(01:16):
Where someone is in dire straits, oftentimes it's like somebody
sort of like a mountaineer or somebody in the wilderness
that's lost and struggling to survive.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
But not always as we'll see.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
And when they're at their sort of worse moment, maybe
worse low point, they get a third a sense that
someone else is there.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
And again it's not always the third person.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
If they're alone, it's just technically the second person, sure,
but it's just somebody there kind of urging them on.
But it's not just like, oh, I got this weird feeling,
Like it's a real serious, tangible thing.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Yeah, Like whatever sense you have when there's somebody sitting
next to you and they actually are there is a
person sitting there, it seems to be the exact same
type of feeling and level of feeling and all that. Yeah,
it's not like this weird kind of like thought a
little bit here there. It's like sensing another presence. And
the first person to ever really kind of document this
(02:15):
was Ernest Shackleton, surely he was not the first person
to experience this, but he he was the first person
to write about it, and his experience is just nuts
in and of itself.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Yeah, we talked about this guy before. It was a
British expedition to Antarctica in nineteen fourteen slash fifteen, trying
to get.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
To the South Pole.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
It was his third try and he's trying to establish
a base there and his ship got trapped in sea ice.
They tried to kind of ride it out, but eventually
the ice kind of came together, and I mean, this
just shows how forceful like creeping ice can be. It
kind of crushed the boat and they abandoned ship, set
up camp on other ice and stayed there initially for
(02:59):
four months on.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
This ice, Yeah, waiting for the ice to break up
enough to try to make an attempt by whaling boat
over to Elephant Island, which is the closest island, and
they made it. They rowed for six days before they
reached Elephant Island, which was great. They weren't on the
ice anymore, but they were on a deserted island. And again, yeah,
(03:22):
I'm thinking it's pretty cold too. And again this is
nineteen fourteen, they're not like, you know, picking up the
sat phone and saying like, hey, can somebody come get us?
Like they've got a real problem here. So they're stranded
on this deserted island, and the closest place where there's
other people where they actually can get in touch and
say hey, somebody come get us is a whaling station
(03:42):
on South Georgia Island, and that's eight hundred miles away.
So Ernest Shackleton says, got to keep going and whittles
down to a few men I think six, five or
six other people, and they actually rode eight hundred miles
from an arc to South Georgia Island.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Yeah, so they get there sixteen days later.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
It turns out they landed on the wrong side of
the island because the winds blew them off course, and
so this guy was undaunted.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Still he took two guys. I think you see where this.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
Is headed, even though the math is still wrong, and
they made the rest of the way on foot. It's
about eighteen miles or thirty kilometers and through some pretty
treacherous conditions, took about thirty six hours. They finally get
there and everyone ends up being rescued like that's the
good news. But this is that last push, is when
(04:37):
Shackleton feels the presence of this additional person urging them on.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
Yeah, because this is like they've reached the limit of
their endurance and they're still going on. And so Shackleton
sensed it, but he never said anything about it until
he wrote his book South It was published in nineteen nineteen.
But he did say something to the other two people
who were with them. One was Captain Worsley, and Worsley said, yeah,
(05:03):
I had the same feeling, actually, and so did Crean,
the other guy on this expedition. They all sensed another person,
in this case a fourth person with them, kind of
basically comforting them to some degree. So that seemed, in
and of itself pretty cool. And I guess the word
of this got out because ts Eliot, he's frequently cited
(05:24):
as the person who who coined the term third man syndrome.
As far as I can tell, no one knows who
actually took this ts Eliot poem and turned it into
third man syndrome, but it actually it did come indisputably
from this ts Eliot poem from nineteen twenty two.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Yeah, So, well, the Wasteland was the poem, and he
again he was wrong in the math. He should have
called it the Fourth Man. But this is kind of
the funniest part. T. S. Eliot said that he couldn't
remember who who inspired this, like which expedition it was
when asked, you know why the number of people was
or not three?
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Or three and night four rather exactly.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
And I'm feeling a little poetic today, Chuck, do you
mind if I read this little This is from T. S.
Eliot's The Wasteland? Three words? Who is the third who
walks always beside you? When I count, there are only
you and I together, But when I look ahead up
the white road, there's always another one walking beside you,
gliding wrapped in a brown mantle, hooded. I do not
(06:27):
know whether a man or a woman. But who is
that on the other side of you? Answer me? Thank you?
Thank you? I say, we take a break and let
everybody in stunned silence absorb all that.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
All right, We'll be right back, all right. So that's
the third man syndrome, Shackleton's version. But it's happened a bunch,
(07:06):
like we said. There was a collection by John Geiger
called The Third man factor that you mentioned earlier from
two thousand and eight where he dug up a bunch
of these stories and we're going to go through some
of them right now.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Yeah. Yeah, I mean it's quite quite a feat that
he got all these together because they were definitely few
and far between. One of the first ones that he
mentions is a guy named Frank Smyth who made a
solo attempt at his Summat everest. He would have been
the first back in nineteen thirty three, and he got close,
but he didn't make it, and he realized he had
to turn back. And his second man during this attempt
(07:43):
was so real to him that at one point he
actually turned to offer them food before he realized that
there was no one there. So, like, this can be
a pretty tangible presence, a tangible intangible presence essentially.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Yeah, I mean I've seen this in movies, you know,
and they don't call it out as you know, third
man syndrome, but I've definitely seen these scenes, you know,
where there's an unseen person and they look and then
they're not there. You know. Yeah, it's but in a
comforting way, not like well I was gonna spoil that.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Nicole Kidman movie.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
But I guess I won't do that right, not in
a horror movie kind of way, No, for sure. But
there was another guy, a climber again named Joe Simpson.
This is nineteen eighty five. He was climbing in the
Peruvian andyes, and he broke his leg, so he was
in really bad shape. And he wrote a book called
Touching the Void where he talked about obeying this voice
like guiding him, and a lot of times that's what happens.
(08:35):
It's not just like you can do it. You can
do it, but like go this way kind of thing.
And if you're in this situation after reading all this stuff,
I would be wise to go in whatever direction your
invisible person is telling you to go.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Yeah, obey the voice, I think is the upshot of
all this. Yeah, he was guided to safety by his voice.
And enough of these are mountaineers that I started to
think maybe the cold has something to do with this.
But this has also happened to other people who were
not in the colt, who were in totally different situations.
Very famously, out of the nine to eleven attacks, two
(09:09):
people who survived reported experiencing third man syndrome. One was
Ron Di Francesco, who was the last person out of
the South Tower before it collapsed. He was led down
while everybody else was going up and actually went through
flames fired like three stories of fire to get to safety,
and it was because he was being urged on. And
(09:30):
then there was another woman, Janelle Guzman McMillan, who was
actually trapped in the rubble of the North Tower and
she had a similar experience too.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
Yeah, and you know again it's it feels like it
might be like in the movie, like a family member
or something. And sometimes it seems like that can happen, Like,
I know, wasn't there one of these where Yeah, it
was a geologist who was on a cave dive and
lost her guideline with twenty minutes left in her air tank,
(10:01):
and she felt her husband, Rob, who had died, So
her dead husband had died in a diving accident a
few weeks prior, so he appears. So sometimes it's like
a known individual.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Yeah, And Janelle Guzman McMillan I read she named. She
didn't think hers was a family member, but she considered
it a guardian angel and its name was Paul. So
they do get named sometimes even if you don't know him.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
I would name.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Mine, what would you name yours?
Speaker 2 (10:26):
I don't know. It depends.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
I think it would hit me in the moment, but
it seems like the respectful thing to do and not
just say hey you, thanks.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
For all that.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Right, Yeah, And just a little word of advice, if
you can't come up with the name, just go with Tim.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Tim.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
That's pretty good scientifically, I mean you might be wondering, like, well,
what's happening here, and no, no one really knows. It's
kind of one of those things where they think it
may be some like hardwired innate instinct that just kind
of kicks in.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
You know.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
Obviously you can't study something like this, and if it
is hardwired, we may all have it, but you're just
luckily most of us aren't ever in that situation, you.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Know, right, Like you not only have to be in
this limit of your endurance life or death situation, you
also have to survive it to come back and tell
everybody about it too. So you would imagine like this
is a pretty small population of people, right, I mean, clearly,
just from the few stories that John Geiger was able
to collect, did you see the thing about the bi
(11:24):
cameral mind now hy theory. So remember our episode on
the bi cameral mind from Julian James, and basically, just
for people who aren't familiar, this is a hypothesis that
all the way up until like the Bronze Age, people
hadn't fully become conscious like we think of consciousness today,
(11:44):
and so the voices in their head that we call
an inner dialogue where we know we're talking to ourselves
to them, this was the gods speaking to them, guiding them,
instructing them. So this idea is the third man syndrome
is kind of this vestigial by cameral experience that people
used to have where what seems like something outside of
(12:05):
your mind is helping you, urging you on, guiding you,
but really it's just another part of your mind that
gets kicked in.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
Yeah, I love it, which kind of drives with the
first theory anyway. You know, it's not like that doesn't
cancel it out.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Right, No, there's no canceling going on here.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Yeah? Good? Uh?
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Are you got anything else?
Speaker 3 (12:25):
Nothing else? Hopefully this instinct is within all of us,
because I wouldn't mind a pal urging me on in
the end.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
For sure, yes, but hopefully no one listening ever, has
to experience it because it sounds like it's pretty rough
to get there. Agreed, Short Stuff is out.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For
more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Hey, and welcome to the Short Stuff. I'm Josh and
there's Chuck and it's just us right now. But that's
okay because we have a third and fourth man with
us today in the form of Jerry and Dave.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
That's right. I feel I sense their presence.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
I do too, and they're guiding us on. They're saying,
come on, you guys, you can finish the short stuff.
It's gonna be a good one.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
I can feel it, Chuck, I think we're gonna be okay.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
We just demonstrated a really weird phenomenon pretty well, if
you ask me, I think we did a great job.
Just now everyone's saying so, but we just demonstrated this
weird phenomenon called the third Man syndrome. There's an author
named John Geiger who for some reason changed syndrome to factor.
But that's typically what it's called, this third man syndrome.
(00:50):
And like I said, it's weird. Chuck, take it away.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
It has nothing to do with the movie The Third Man,
which was good, great movie. And immediately when you sent
this along and I saw the title, I thought it
might have something to do with that. And it doesn't
have to be a man. It really should be the
third person syndrome. Sure, but it is this phenomenon that
has been talked about by many people over hundreds of years.
(01:16):
Where someone is in dire straits, oftentimes it's like somebody
sort of like a mountaineer or somebody in the wilderness
that's lost and struggling to survive.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
But not always as we'll see.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
And when they're at their sort of worse moment, maybe
worse low point, they get a third a sense that
someone else is there.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
And again it's not always the third person.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
If they're alone, it's just technically the second person, sure,
but it's just somebody there kind of urging them on.
But it's not just like, oh, I got this weird feeling,
Like it's a real serious, tangible thing.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Yeah, Like whatever sense you have when there's somebody sitting
next to you and they actually are there is a
person sitting there, it seems to be the exact same
type of feeling and level of feeling and all that. Yeah,
it's not like this weird kind of like thought a
little bit here there. It's like sensing another presence. And
the first person to ever really kind of document this
(02:15):
was Ernest Shackleton, surely he was not the first person
to experience this, but he he was the first person
to write about it, and his experience is just nuts
in and of itself.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Yeah, we talked about this guy before. It was a
British expedition to Antarctica in nineteen fourteen slash fifteen, trying
to get.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
To the South Pole.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
It was his third try and he's trying to establish
a base there and his ship got trapped in sea ice.
They tried to kind of ride it out, but eventually
the ice kind of came together, and I mean, this
just shows how forceful like creeping ice can be. It
kind of crushed the boat and they abandoned ship, set
up camp on other ice and stayed there initially for
(02:59):
four months on.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
This ice, Yeah, waiting for the ice to break up
enough to try to make an attempt by whaling boat
over to Elephant Island, which is the closest island, and
they made it. They rowed for six days before they
reached Elephant Island, which was great. They weren't on the
ice anymore, but they were on a deserted island. And again, yeah,
(03:22):
I'm thinking it's pretty cold too. And again this is
nineteen fourteen, they're not like, you know, picking up the
sat phone and saying like, hey, can somebody come get us?
Like they've got a real problem here. So they're stranded
on this deserted island, and the closest place where there's
other people where they actually can get in touch and
say hey, somebody come get us is a whaling station
(03:42):
on South Georgia Island, and that's eight hundred miles away.
So Ernest Shackleton says, got to keep going and whittles
down to a few men I think six, five or
six other people, and they actually rode eight hundred miles
from an arc to South Georgia Island.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Yeah, so they get there sixteen days later.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
It turns out they landed on the wrong side of
the island because the winds blew them off course, and
so this guy was undaunted.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Still he took two guys. I think you see where this.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
Is headed, even though the math is still wrong, and
they made the rest of the way on foot. It's
about eighteen miles or thirty kilometers and through some pretty
treacherous conditions, took about thirty six hours. They finally get
there and everyone ends up being rescued like that's the
good news. But this is that last push, is when
(04:37):
Shackleton feels the presence of this additional person urging them on.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
Yeah, because this is like they've reached the limit of
their endurance and they're still going on. And so Shackleton
sensed it, but he never said anything about it until
he wrote his book South It was published in nineteen nineteen.
But he did say something to the other two people
who were with them. One was Captain Worsley, and Worsley said, yeah,
(05:03):
I had the same feeling, actually, and so did Crean,
the other guy on this expedition. They all sensed another person,
in this case a fourth person with them, kind of
basically comforting them to some degree. So that seemed, in
and of itself pretty cool. And I guess the word
of this got out because ts Eliot, he's frequently cited
(05:24):
as the person who who coined the term third man syndrome.
As far as I can tell, no one knows who
actually took this ts Eliot poem and turned it into
third man syndrome, but it actually it did come indisputably
from this ts Eliot poem from nineteen twenty two.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Yeah, So, well, the Wasteland was the poem, and he
again he was wrong in the math. He should have
called it the Fourth Man. But this is kind of
the funniest part. T. S. Eliot said that he couldn't
remember who who inspired this, like which expedition it was
when asked, you know why the number of people was
or not three?
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Or three and night four rather exactly.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
And I'm feeling a little poetic today, Chuck, do you
mind if I read this little This is from T. S.
Eliot's The Wasteland? Three words? Who is the third who
walks always beside you? When I count, there are only
you and I together, But when I look ahead up
the white road, there's always another one walking beside you,
gliding wrapped in a brown mantle, hooded. I do not
(06:27):
know whether a man or a woman. But who is
that on the other side of you? Answer me? Thank you?
Thank you? I say, we take a break and let
everybody in stunned silence absorb all that.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
All right, We'll be right back, all right. So that's
the third man syndrome, Shackleton's version. But it's happened a bunch,
(07:06):
like we said. There was a collection by John Geiger
called The Third man factor that you mentioned earlier from
two thousand and eight where he dug up a bunch
of these stories and we're going to go through some
of them right now.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Yeah. Yeah, I mean it's quite quite a feat that
he got all these together because they were definitely few
and far between. One of the first ones that he
mentions is a guy named Frank Smyth who made a
solo attempt at his Summat everest. He would have been
the first back in nineteen thirty three, and he got close,
but he didn't make it, and he realized he had
to turn back. And his second man during this attempt
(07:43):
was so real to him that at one point he
actually turned to offer them food before he realized that
there was no one there. So, like, this can be
a pretty tangible presence, a tangible intangible presence essentially.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Yeah, I mean I've seen this in movies, you know,
and they don't call it out as you know, third
man syndrome, but I've definitely seen these scenes, you know,
where there's an unseen person and they look and then
they're not there. You know. Yeah, it's but in a
comforting way, not like well I was gonna spoil that.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Nicole Kidman movie.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
But I guess I won't do that right, not in
a horror movie kind of way, No, for sure. But
there was another guy, a climber again named Joe Simpson.
This is nineteen eighty five. He was climbing in the
Peruvian andyes, and he broke his leg, so he was
in really bad shape. And he wrote a book called
Touching the Void where he talked about obeying this voice
like guiding him, and a lot of times that's what happens.
(08:35):
It's not just like you can do it. You can
do it, but like go this way kind of thing.
And if you're in this situation after reading all this stuff,
I would be wise to go in whatever direction your
invisible person is telling you to go.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Yeah, obey the voice, I think is the upshot of
all this. Yeah, he was guided to safety by his voice.
And enough of these are mountaineers that I started to
think maybe the cold has something to do with this.
But this has also happened to other people who were
not in the colt, who were in totally different situations.
Very famously, out of the nine to eleven attacks, two
(09:09):
people who survived reported experiencing third man syndrome. One was
Ron Di Francesco, who was the last person out of
the South Tower before it collapsed. He was led down
while everybody else was going up and actually went through
flames fired like three stories of fire to get to safety,
and it was because he was being urged on. And
(09:30):
then there was another woman, Janelle Guzman McMillan, who was
actually trapped in the rubble of the North Tower and
she had a similar experience too.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
Yeah, and you know again it's it feels like it
might be like in the movie, like a family member
or something. And sometimes it seems like that can happen, Like,
I know, wasn't there one of these where Yeah, it
was a geologist who was on a cave dive and
lost her guideline with twenty minutes left in her air tank,
(10:01):
and she felt her husband, Rob, who had died, So
her dead husband had died in a diving accident a
few weeks prior, so he appears. So sometimes it's like
a known individual.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Yeah, And Janelle Guzman McMillan I read she named. She
didn't think hers was a family member, but she considered
it a guardian angel and its name was Paul. So
they do get named sometimes even if you don't know him.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
I would name.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Mine, what would you name yours?
Speaker 2 (10:26):
I don't know. It depends.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
I think it would hit me in the moment, but
it seems like the respectful thing to do and not
just say hey you, thanks.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
For all that.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Right, Yeah, And just a little word of advice, if
you can't come up with the name, just go with Tim.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Tim.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
That's pretty good scientifically, I mean you might be wondering, like, well,
what's happening here, and no, no one really knows. It's
kind of one of those things where they think it
may be some like hardwired innate instinct that just kind
of kicks in.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
You know.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
Obviously you can't study something like this, and if it
is hardwired, we may all have it, but you're just
luckily most of us aren't ever in that situation, you.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Know, right, Like you not only have to be in
this limit of your endurance life or death situation, you
also have to survive it to come back and tell
everybody about it too. So you would imagine like this
is a pretty small population of people, right, I mean, clearly,
just from the few stories that John Geiger was able
to collect, did you see the thing about the bi
(11:24):
cameral mind now hy theory. So remember our episode on
the bi cameral mind from Julian James, and basically, just
for people who aren't familiar, this is a hypothesis that
all the way up until like the Bronze Age, people
hadn't fully become conscious like we think of consciousness today,
(11:44):
and so the voices in their head that we call
an inner dialogue where we know we're talking to ourselves
to them, this was the gods speaking to them, guiding them,
instructing them. So this idea is the third man syndrome
is kind of this vestigial by cameral experience that people
used to have where what seems like something outside of
(12:05):
your mind is helping you, urging you on, guiding you,
but really it's just another part of your mind that
gets kicked in.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
Yeah, I love it, which kind of drives with the
first theory anyway. You know, it's not like that doesn't
cancel it out.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Right, No, there's no canceling going on here.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Yeah? Good? Uh?
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Are you got anything else?
Speaker 3 (12:25):
Nothing else? Hopefully this instinct is within all of us,
because I wouldn't mind a pal urging me on in
the end.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
For sure, yes, but hopefully no one listening ever, has
to experience it because it sounds like it's pretty rough
to get there. Agreed, Short Stuff is out.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For
more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Ruthie's Table 4
For more than 30 years The River Cafe in London, has been the home-from-home of artists, architects, designers, actors, collectors, writers, activists, and politicians. Michael Caine, Glenn Close, JJ Abrams, Steve McQueen, Victoria and David Beckham, and Lily Allen, are just some of the people who love to call The River Cafe home. On River Cafe Table 4, Rogers sits down with her customers—who have become friends—to talk about food memories. Table 4 explores how food impacts every aspect of our lives. “Foods is politics, food is cultural, food is how you express love, food is about your heritage, it defines who you and who you want to be,” says Rogers. Each week, Rogers invites her guest to reminisce about family suppers and first dates, what they cook, how they eat when performing, the restaurants they choose, and what food they seek when they need comfort. And to punctuate each episode of Table 4, guests such as Ralph Fiennes, Emily Blunt, and Alfonso Cuarón, read their favourite recipe from one of the best-selling River Cafe cookbooks. Table 4 itself, is situated near The River Cafe’s open kitchen, close to the bright pink wood-fired oven and next to the glossy yellow pass, where Ruthie oversees the restaurant. You are invited to take a seat at this intimate table and join the conversation. For more information, recipes, and ingredients, go to https://shoptherivercafe.co.uk/ Web: https://rivercafe.co.uk/ Instagram: www.instagram.com/therivercafelondon/ Facebook: https://en-gb.facebook.com/therivercafelondon/ For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iheartradio app, apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.