August 2, 2023 • 27 mins
Sarah becomes the youngest woman in history to argue in the Supreme Court. A controversial decision by Warren puts Harry in an uncomfortable position.
~~ Cast Credits ~~
Sarah Weddington: Maya Hawke
Justice Harry Blackmun: William H. Macy
Bea: Laura Benanti
Cady: Ashley Eskew
Deb: Andrea Savage
Jay Floyd: Peter Oldring
Justice Brennan: Aaron Tracy
Justice Powell: Sam Stumpf
Justice Stewart: Richard Newman
Justice White: Bill Mondy
Linda Coffee: Abigail Breslin
Male Guard: Pat Kelly
Lena: Susanne Potrock
Reporter: Katie Couric
Roy Lucas: Luke Kirby
Dottie Blackmun: Felicity Huffman
Dr. Erdahl: Mark Chavez
Gloria: Karen Foreman
Harry's Mom: Barbara Pollard
Librarian: Karen Foreman
Linda Coffee: Abigail Breslin
Justice Marshall: Joe Costa
Justice Burger: William Fichtner
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
From iHeart Podcasts. This is Supreme The Battle for Rows
eighteen Roll against Wayne, starring Maya Hawky and William H. Mason.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Whenever you are.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Ready, mister Chief Justice and Maya Pleased the Court.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Episode seven Marble Palace.
Speaker 4 (00:36):
Mister Chief Justice man, please may please the court, please mabe.
Speaker 5 (00:42):
Please the court.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Oh five am? Well that was wrestful.
Speaker 6 (01:02):
Far fucking now, Linda, sh Sarah, no one's around. Who's
gonna hear me? The car doesn't care?
Speaker 2 (01:08):
I hear you. Show some respect to this place. Brother.
We're supposed to go to the Marshall's office first. There
it is. Hello there, I'm Sarah Weddington and this is Linda. Coffee.
We're the lawyers arguing this morning. Sorry, we're a little early.
Speaker 7 (01:28):
Come back in an hour, ladies, you'll still be early.
Speaker 6 (01:31):
Come on, ma'am, have a heart, won't you. We've never
done this before.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
We're nervous as heck.
Speaker 6 (01:36):
Put yourself in our shoes.
Speaker 7 (01:38):
Sorry, I need coffee. Welcome to the Supreme Court, ladies.
Here's a card authorizing what you may and may not
bring into the courtroom and other instructions.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
For you both.
Speaker 7 (01:49):
You have a third, don't you?
Speaker 3 (01:50):
Yes?
Speaker 6 (01:51):
Right, Lucas, I'll be at our table. He won't be
speaking now, let me see these instructions remain seated at
the reserve table through out the argument of the case,
which immediately precedes.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Your case that doesn't apply to us. We're the first
case today.
Speaker 6 (02:06):
When counsel's turn comes for argument, he will proceed to
the rosterrum without being called. He should not begin until
he has been recognized by the Chief Justice. Then he
should open his argument with mister Chief Justice and may
it please the court? Wow?
Speaker 7 (02:23):
Sorry about that. Not a lot of call for a
female version of these.
Speaker 6 (02:27):
This is intense. There are fewer protocols when we meet
the queen.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
How would you possibly know that? Linda? Thank you, ma'am.
Come on, Lyda, let's go.
Speaker 7 (02:37):
Missus Weddington.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Yes, I just want you to know a bunch.
Speaker 7 (02:42):
Of US staffers here at court we're rooting for you today.
Go get them.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Thank you. Thank you so much, Linda. Did you just
hear what she just said to me?
Speaker 6 (03:00):
Keep it together, Sarah. Check out the courtroom, Sarah, Okay,
you look white, I mean more than usual.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
The courtroom is smaller than I thought.
Speaker 6 (03:26):
Three hundred and fifty seats, isn't enough for you. You
think your jan is chompling all of a sudden. Look,
that must be the three minute section, my son.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
For tourists, they sit for three minutes at a time,
then get replaced by a new group.
Speaker 6 (03:40):
Well, that's not gonna be distracting at all.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
But I had no idea. The lawyers stand was this
close to the bench. Why don't they move it back?
My God, when I stand here, if I reach out
my hand and the Chief Justice reaches out here, we
could shake.
Speaker 6 (03:53):
Okay, but you're not gonna do that. Ray, right, Sarah.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
It's like sitting in the dang front row of a
movie theater, says on the ends, won't even be in
my field of vision.
Speaker 6 (04:03):
Breathe, Sarah breathed in an out look. Gifts for us,
handmade goose quill pens. We get to keep these.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Every lawyer who's ever argued here has.
Speaker 6 (04:15):
Oh what is it now, Sarah, why do you look weird?
Speaker 3 (04:18):
No, it's just it reminds me of my father's church.
I wasn't expecting that.
Speaker 6 (04:25):
Okay, this is a bad time for an acid flashback, Sarah.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
The pews, the gallery, the lectern, the stage.
Speaker 6 (04:32):
Okay, is church a happy memory or a sad memory.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
When I was a little girl, I used to entertain
my father's whole congregation.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
There are some of my fondest memories.
Speaker 6 (04:44):
Happy then, if I can just pull you back into
the present for a minute, Sarah, remember what we practiced. Look,
they even put a cheat sheet on the lectern for
you with the Justice seating arrangement. Make eye contact with
Powell on everything related to ninth Amendment. Look at Burger
when pushing the fourteenth. He may be persuadable on that.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
What about black Man?
Speaker 6 (05:06):
Don't focus on him, Harry. Blackman is just burger sidekick.
Convince Warren and Harry will follow, And don't go over
the allotted time. A white light goes on here when
you have a few minutes left, when the red light
goes on, sit your buck down.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
I know I'm the one who told you all that
I got it. Linda good, Okay, So.
Speaker 6 (05:32):
What do you want to do for the next three hours?
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Excuse me, sir, We can't seem to find the lavatory
we're arguing.
Speaker 5 (05:44):
This morning, of course, missus Whittington. It's in the lawyer's lock.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Actually, I only saw a man's room in there, Oh right.
Speaker 5 (05:52):
The women's facilities are in the basement.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
I think, of course, why.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
Wouldn't they be, Sarah, Mama, you look so beautiful, sweetie.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Momma, you remember leading.
Speaker 6 (06:04):
To coffee him? Missus Rigel, how was the fly? Very easy?
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Here?
Speaker 6 (06:09):
The girl's drum scrapook needs you a card?
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Thanks, Mama. Where's Daddy still in the cap?
Speaker 8 (06:14):
Daddy couldn't make it, Dear, What what do you mean?
Speaker 6 (06:20):
He just he couldn't make it? Oh, Sarah, do not
fall apart on me.
Speaker 9 (06:26):
Not now.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Big a day of my life and he couldn't come.
Speaker 6 (06:29):
Excuse me, Missus Rigel, I need Sarah for a second.
Of course, go get ready.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Good luck, it's fine. Daddy's very busy. It's a long
trip from Dallas.
Speaker 8 (06:41):
It's fine, Sarah.
Speaker 6 (06:43):
Your father is a freaking minister and a Texan and
a man. Some part of you feel like if he
was a portive of this and almost wouldn't be worth
you in.
Speaker 8 (06:56):
I guess.
Speaker 5 (07:12):
I can't believe you scored these seats, Katie.
Speaker 10 (07:14):
Must have been expensive.
Speaker 11 (07:15):
It's not a next game, Mike yat they were free.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Did you speak to Sarah this morning?
Speaker 6 (07:21):
Wish your good luck from the group. No, I didn't
want to rattle or we'll catch her after me. I
should be able to breathe again.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
By then, missus Weddington, Thanks coffee, mister Lucas, good to
see you.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
I can't believe this crowdland. Everybody's here. Look. Anne Richards
is sitting right over there.
Speaker 6 (07:42):
By wrong yep, your husband is also two seats away
from Betty for Dan.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
That's Betty for Dan. Oh, and there's Mikey and Katie
from the Institute. There's being deb who those women in
the private area next to the bench.
Speaker 6 (07:55):
I think that's the life's box. Believe me, no Justice's wife.
I used to miss this one.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
I wonder what the justices are doing right now. I
think they're as nervous as we are.
Speaker 6 (08:06):
Are you kidding? They're shaking their robes. They kind of
answer to the Sarah Wennington today.
Speaker 5 (08:18):
What do you see between what distinction do you make
between one and nine months of justice?
Speaker 12 (08:26):
You look nervous, Harry.
Speaker 5 (08:28):
I'm just trying to be prepared, warn.
Speaker 12 (08:30):
Relax, especially with this one. Not a lot of suspense here,
all right, gentlemen, here we go.
Speaker 11 (08:43):
The Honorable the Chief Justice and the Associate Justices of
the Supreme Court of the United States o ya o
ya o ya.
Speaker 6 (08:53):
All right, here we go, Sarah.
Speaker 11 (08:58):
All persons having business before the Honorable the Supreme Court
of the United States are admonished to draw near and
give their attention. But the Court is now sitting.
Speaker 13 (09:12):
Be sitting.
Speaker 12 (09:20):
We'll hear arguments in number eighteen row against uh Wade.
Missus Weddington. You may proceed whenever you're ready.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
Mister Chief Justice, and may it please the Court. The
Texas abortion laws are unconstitutional for two reasons. They're impermissibly vague,
and they violate a woman's rats. They permit abortions only
to save the life of the woman.
Speaker 12 (09:48):
Now, Missus Weddington, does this hold true for doctors as well?
Speaker 2 (09:53):
An interesting question, Chief Justice Burger, Why.
Speaker 5 (09:56):
Thank you, Missus Weddington.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
The current law is unclear, mister Chief Justice. Unless they
can prove it's necessary to save a woman's life, doctors
could be prosecuted under the law. But what if a
woman comes to a doctor alleging she'll commit suicide if
he doesn't give her an abortion.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
What's the doctor to do? The law is too vague,
your honor.
Speaker 5 (10:17):
Let's talk about access, Missus Weddington.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Oh okay, Justice.
Speaker 5 (10:22):
Blackman, you go into it extensively in your brief, But
why is lack of access an undue burden on a woman?
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Thank you for the question, Justice Blackman.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
I would say that all personal and familial problems for
a woman are bound up in pregnancy.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
It changes a woman's life.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
What I mean to say is pregnancy is one of
the most determinative aspects of her life. It disrupts her body,
it disrupts her education, it disrupts her employment, and it
often disrupts her entire family. We feel that because of
this fundamental impact on the woman, she must have access
and ability to decide whether to continue or to terminate
her pregnancy.
Speaker 12 (11:12):
Mister Floyd, when you're ready.
Speaker 14 (11:17):
Mister Chief Justice, and may it please the court.
Speaker 15 (11:20):
It's an old joke, but when a man argues against
two beautiful ladies like these, they are going to have
the last word.
Speaker 5 (11:31):
Get on with it, mister Floyd.
Speaker 14 (11:34):
Yes, mister Chief Justice.
Speaker 15 (11:36):
Yes, Before I proceed, I would like to bring the
lack of standing to the Court's attention. We believe that
this case is moot and should be dismissed outright because
Jane Rowe, as well as the other plaintiffs are no
longer pregnant.
Speaker 12 (11:50):
Mister Floyd, Are you suggesting there are no pregnant females
in the state of Texas.
Speaker 5 (11:57):
This is a.
Speaker 15 (11:58):
Class action suit, mister Floyd, Yes, your honor, But for
a class action suit to be valid, at least one
member of the original suit must have standing.
Speaker 14 (12:07):
None of these plaintiffs in this case do.
Speaker 5 (12:09):
Mister Floyd. In the American judicial system, cases take longer
than nine months to reach us. That's just fact. Under
your reasoning, how could any pregnant woman ever sue?
Speaker 14 (12:20):
Withstanding they cannot justice Blackman?
Speaker 15 (12:23):
Some issues simply have no remedy. What I mean to
say is that the woman makes her choice prior to
the time she becomes pregnant.
Speaker 14 (12:34):
That is the time of choice.
Speaker 12 (12:36):
Or maybe she makes her choice when she decides to
live in Texas.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Mister Floyd, your honors, how long a woman has been
pregnant should be a part of the Texas law and
it is not.
Speaker 5 (12:55):
What distinctions do you make, missus Whittington me, your honor. Yes,
you point out that Texas law doesn't refer to how
long a woman has been pregnant, But what is your opinion?
Speaker 3 (13:07):
It is a I would say I have a more
difficult time saying the state has no ability to regulate
in late pregnancy.
Speaker 10 (13:15):
Justice black Man, Why why is that?
Speaker 3 (13:18):
I think it's more the emotional response to a late pregnancy,
Justice Marshall say, in the seventh or eighth or ninth month,
it might be out of bounds, but it's an emotional
distinction rather than a constitutional one.
Speaker 10 (13:32):
Emotional an emotional response by whom Missus.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
Weddington, Well, I suppose by anyone considering this issue outside
the legal profession, just as Marshall.
Speaker 5 (13:42):
In other words, you don't think there's a legal argument
to me made about the distinction between early and late
term abortions. Missus Weddington.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Well, if we're speaking about a legal context, your honor.
Speaker 12 (13:55):
As long as we're in the courtroom, Missus Weddington, we
may as well.
Speaker 5 (13:58):
This is Weddington. Let me make this simple. Do you
or don't you say that time frame should be a
part of the constitutional question.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
I would say, yes, Your Honor, the number of months
that pass and a pregnancy are relevant.
Speaker 10 (14:11):
Okay, then, mister Floyd, when does life begin?
Speaker 14 (14:26):
Excuse me, Justice Marshall, you heard me.
Speaker 10 (14:30):
You represent the state of Texas. What is your position?
Speaker 9 (14:34):
Is there life in the first few weeks of pregnancy
the last few. Surely, if your state intends to prohibit
abortion on the grounds that it's taking away a life,
you can tell us when the cutoff is, after all,
mister Floyd, laws must be precise.
Speaker 14 (14:53):
Of course, Justice Marshall.
Speaker 16 (14:55):
So when is it, mister Floyd? Is there life after
seven months, seven days one? Now the very moment of conception?
Speaker 8 (15:04):
Perhaps?
Speaker 14 (15:05):
Well, Justice Powell.
Speaker 5 (15:06):
And what scientific data do you have to support whatever
your conclusion is, mister Floyd.
Speaker 17 (15:11):
And be specific, yes, Justice Blackman, it's the development of
the embryo, is Mister Justice.
Speaker 14 (15:22):
I think it's humbling to there are some unanswerable.
Speaker 15 (15:26):
Questions, your honor, And we're talking about when the soul
comes into the unborn, if a person believes in the soul,
the soul.
Speaker 10 (15:38):
You know what, mister Floyd, did?
Speaker 12 (15:40):
I withdraw the question, Missus Weddington, You've made a very
eloquent policy argument against the Texas law. What provisions of
the Constitution do you rely on?
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Chief Justice Burger?
Speaker 3 (16:02):
In the lower court it was held that the right
to terminate a pregnancy rested upon the Ninth Amendment. I
think that the due process clause incorporated into the fourteenth
Amendment is an equally appropriate place the Fourteenth Yes, just
as Blackman prohibiting the deprivation of life, liberty, or property
by the government. We believe that if liberty is meaningful
(16:22):
at all, it should mean liberty from being forced to
continue unwanted pregnancies.
Speaker 18 (16:26):
Missus Weddington, your case then depends primarily on our holding
that the fetus is not a person with constitutional rights.
Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Yes, Justice Brandon.
Speaker 5 (16:35):
So if it were established that the fetus was a life,
you would have a difficult case, wouldn't you, Missus Weddington.
Speaker 19 (16:43):
Oh well, mister Floyd, do you know of any case
anywhere that is that an unborn fetus is a person within.
Speaker 12 (17:03):
The meaning of the Fourteenth Amendment?
Speaker 14 (17:05):
No, mister Chief Justice.
Speaker 15 (17:06):
We can only go back to what the framers of
our Constitution had in mind.
Speaker 18 (17:10):
Really, the framers, you want to take a moment to
rethink that, mister Flood.
Speaker 15 (17:15):
Justice Brennan, I know this Court has given certain rights
to groups that the Framers couldn't have foreseen in their day,
But in this case there is no such rights that are.
Speaker 9 (17:23):
Mister Floyd, I don't think that's Justice Brennan's issue, or
not his Ownly issue anyway.
Speaker 14 (17:29):
What is the issue, Justice Marshall.
Speaker 9 (17:32):
One issue is that the Framers were not particularly involved
in the drafting of the Fourteenth Amendment.
Speaker 10 (17:37):
Mister Floyd. The Amendment was written in eighteen sixty six.
Speaker 9 (17:42):
Or are you suggesting that some of our founding fathers
were immortals, mister.
Speaker 5 (17:46):
Floyd, No, your honor, I misspoke. Sticking with the Fourteenth
Amendment for a moment, mister Floyd, let's look at the text.
Does it define a person as someone who is born?
Speaker 15 (17:59):
It says all persons born or naturalized in the United
States of America are afforded.
Speaker 5 (18:05):
Yes, But that's not the definition of a person, mister Floyd.
That's the definition of a citizen. Isn't it true, mister Floyd,
that the medical profession itself is not an agreement as
to when life begins?
Speaker 14 (18:17):
I think that is true, Justice Blackman.
Speaker 15 (18:20):
But on the twentieth day, practically all of the faculties
are there that you and I have.
Speaker 5 (18:25):
What are you basing that on, mister Floyd?
Speaker 14 (18:27):
On research, your honor?
Speaker 5 (18:28):
You care to be more specific.
Speaker 14 (18:30):
Your honor.
Speaker 15 (18:31):
A fetus is a person within the framework of the Constitution,
simple as that.
Speaker 10 (18:35):
Uh huh.
Speaker 12 (18:36):
Of course, if you're right about that, mister Floyd. You
can sit down. You've won your case.
Speaker 15 (18:41):
Yes, mister Chief Justice, the child has rights. This Court
has been diligent in protecting the rights of the minority,
and we hold that they are a minority, a silent minority,
the true silent minority.
Speaker 14 (18:56):
Who is speaking for these children?
Speaker 15 (18:59):
Where is their protection for right to trial by jury
when the mother wants to abord?
Speaker 5 (19:05):
Okay, But mister Floyd, if the fetus or embryo is
not a person, then you've lost your case. If it's
simple one way, it's just as simple. The other.
Speaker 20 (19:27):
Court observers are now pouring over the questions posed by
the justices for any hints at how they might be leaning.
The Court's decision has the potential to completely disrupt upcoming elections.
In his previous life, Chief Justice Burger was an active
member of the Republican Party. Can he now tune out
the GOP's vocal desire to end the expansion of rice
(19:50):
begun under the previous court, or will this case end
up expanding them even more?
Speaker 6 (20:10):
How on earth did I let you drive me here? Sarah?
I feel like I'm on a sixth grade field trip.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
Stop complaining will you how often are we in d
see Linda?
Speaker 2 (20:20):
You think I'm not going to see the Lincoln Memorial.
Speaker 6 (20:22):
I'm just saying it's a strange way to celebrate what
we just finished.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
And I think it's the perfect way. Let's pay our
quick respects to honest tape. Then I want to see
the Air and Space Museum and take one of those
paddle boat things over to the Jefferson.
Speaker 6 (20:34):
Okay, just promise me we're not going back to the
Supreme Court because the guided door would feel a little intoclimactic.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Oh hush, Linda. Anyway, what do we have better to do?
The case is officially out of our hands down. All
we can do is wait, Hi, there.
Speaker 21 (20:50):
You two lovely ladies enjoying the sights.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
We sure are well.
Speaker 21 (20:53):
My buddies and I are heading over to duke Zieberts
for some drinks. Would you ladies care to join?
Speaker 6 (20:57):
We're fine things anyway?
Speaker 10 (20:59):
What about you, doll?
Speaker 3 (21:00):
I'm sorry, we have a bunch of more sized to
see today orally in town a couple of days.
Speaker 21 (21:04):
Okay, Well, can't blame a guy for trying. Where are
you all visiting from from Dallas? No, the Cowboys are
my team. What do you all do down there?
Speaker 2 (21:13):
We're lawyers.
Speaker 10 (21:14):
Get out of here.
Speaker 21 (21:16):
My pal over there and I are at Georgetown Law.
Speaker 10 (21:18):
Where are you two in school or not?
Speaker 6 (21:20):
We're practicing?
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Yeah, right, No, we are really re litigators.
Speaker 10 (21:25):
Mm hmm. Ever argued a case before?
Speaker 8 (21:28):
Uh huh, you could say.
Speaker 12 (21:31):
So, all right, let's get going, gentlemen. Anybody need anything
before we start deliberations?
Speaker 10 (21:43):
Water, coffee, But let's just get going more.
Speaker 12 (21:46):
And find that Michael, take this back to my chambers.
Tell the other porters we're squared away and let the
clerks know. We'll be in closed conference. No disturbances.
Speaker 10 (21:56):
Yes, your.
Speaker 14 (22:02):
The state has the right to protect the fetus.
Speaker 5 (22:04):
End of story.
Speaker 12 (22:05):
Diving right in then, thank you, whizar.
Speaker 18 (22:07):
Oh Hawash Council demonstrated that the state has never given
a fetus rights before. The young lady proved her argument.
Speaker 10 (22:14):
Yes she did, and the other lawyer, Floyd did himself.
No favors. The Texas Statute is rife with contradictions.
Speaker 12 (22:21):
Doesn't mean we should strike it down their goood. It's
still the state's issue to deal with. We should send
it back to them.
Speaker 18 (22:28):
The country expects a resolution to this issue. We're not
dodging at this time.
Speaker 12 (22:31):
Hey, no one's dodging anything, Bill, but it's not necessarily
our role to weidhe in.
Speaker 10 (22:36):
The hell it isn't. The country's a mess. We can't
have abortion illegal in the South and legal in the north.
Speaker 12 (22:42):
Oh, come on, do not equate this with eighteen sixty
The good he's not whizzer. I'll be damned that this
is going to become my dread Scott. But we also
can't pretend this won't inflame the country whichever way we
come down, Harry, what do you think?
Speaker 16 (22:59):
I'm well, maybe, now let's get into specifics. What about
when the woman is married, does the husband have any
say in whether she kills the baby?
Speaker 10 (23:09):
It's not a baby, Lewis, and it's not killing.
Speaker 12 (23:12):
Yes, But if we buy the privacy argument, husbands will
have no control whatsoever.
Speaker 5 (23:17):
And I have a lot of trouble with that, so
do I.
Speaker 12 (23:20):
I'm not about to suggest the ninth Amendment of the
Constitution allows anybody to do anything they like in private,
and certainly not something like this without consulting the father.
Speaker 10 (23:29):
No, certainly not.
Speaker 12 (23:30):
And I'd be interested to see the research about whether
there's a connection between promiscuity and abortion.
Speaker 9 (23:35):
Holy hell, wizard. People aren't going to use it as
a form of birth control.
Speaker 16 (23:39):
I have trouble with the idea that taxpayer money goes
towards the procedure.
Speaker 10 (23:44):
It's less than what they'll pay for welfare.
Speaker 5 (23:46):
Lewis, Come on, all right, all right?
Speaker 10 (23:49):
Should we take a vote? See where we are?
Speaker 9 (23:51):
Absolutely not. We need to talk some more, Warren. We've
barely scratched the surface.
Speaker 12 (23:55):
Let's just see where we're at their good. All those
for striking down the Texas abortion law? Okay, all opposed? Okay,
so that's about even with a couple of abstentions. Wait, Harry,
I missed your vote.
Speaker 5 (24:09):
No you didn't. I didn't make one.
Speaker 10 (24:11):
You're not voting, Harry.
Speaker 5 (24:12):
I think we should talk more. We haven't even begun
on medical ethics, and I want to reread some of
the briefs.
Speaker 10 (24:18):
Look at that.
Speaker 16 (24:19):
I can't remember you ever not voting with your pal
on a first go round.
Speaker 12 (24:24):
You're out of line, Lewis.
Speaker 5 (24:25):
I'm not voting with or against anyone. I'm simply abstaining
until I have a chance to really dig into some
of this.
Speaker 12 (24:32):
Are you kidding me?
Speaker 10 (24:32):
Harry? We discussed this, You discussed it. The hell does
that mean.
Speaker 16 (24:36):
I don't think you two should be discussing your vote
before all arguments.
Speaker 10 (24:40):
Oh please, you're always coluding with with me?
Speaker 18 (24:43):
Hey the hell, Hey, Convince.
Speaker 16 (24:45):
All you want point is this conference room is where
we should first see where we all stay agreed.
Speaker 10 (24:51):
Otherwise there's the potential for too much politicking.
Speaker 12 (24:54):
All right, All right enough, Harry, what's your vote?
Speaker 5 (24:56):
Stop muddling around? I told you, Warren, I need to
give further.
Speaker 12 (24:59):
Con veteration, should find you do that. In any event,
I'm assigning the opinion to Harry.
Speaker 18 (25:04):
What talking about Warren?
Speaker 12 (25:06):
Harry is our resident expert in all medical matters. He
worked at the Mayo Clinic.
Speaker 10 (25:10):
For years as in house counsel. Warren. He wasn't operating
on people anyway.
Speaker 12 (25:15):
Harry hasn't written the decision in a major case.
Speaker 18 (25:17):
Yet exactly, So what it's his turn in the rotation
or something, Warren. That's not how we do things.
Speaker 9 (25:22):
Bigger issue, gentlemen, this isn't your case to assign Warren.
Douglas is the senior justice in the majority, So no.
Speaker 5 (25:28):
No, he's not.
Speaker 12 (25:29):
There's no majority yet their goods, so the chief makes
the assignment.
Speaker 10 (25:33):
I could argue with the exact opposite with him.
Speaker 12 (25:35):
We're done here, gentlemen.
Speaker 13 (25:45):
Warren, hold up a second. You sure your boy is
up for this? Lewis stop.
Speaker 16 (25:51):
I know Harry is your friend, but he's only been
here a short time.
Speaker 5 (25:54):
He's not nearly ready for this. What the hell are
you up to?
Speaker 10 (25:58):
Warren?
Speaker 5 (26:00):
Don't worry about it, Supreme.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
The Battle Farrow from iHeart Podcasts, created and written by
Aaron Tracy, directed by Rachel Winter, starring Maya Hawk, William h. Macy,
and Abigail Breslin, also featuring Laura Bonanti as b Andrea
Savage as deb William Fickner as Warren, Felicity Huffman as Dottie,
(26:28):
Peter Oldring as j Floyd, Luke Kirby as Roy, and
Katie Kuric as the Reporter. Executive produced by Eva Longoria,
Ben Spector, Rachel Winter and Aaron Tracy, as well as
Katrina Norvell in Anna Stump from iHeart produced by Kelly
and Kelly. Executive producers for Kelly and Kelly are Chris Kelly,
(26:50):
Lauren Berkovich, and Pat Kelly. Produced by Tamara Black for
Kelly and Kelly. Director of Audio Chris Kelly. Original score
by Hamilton Lighthauser and Anna Stump. Sound designed by Paul Teduscini,
Edited by Max Collins. For a full list of credits,
please see show notes.
Speaker 14 (27:15):
This is a production of Unbelievable Entertainment in partnership with
iHeartRadio
From iHeart Podcasts. This is Supreme The Battle for Rows
eighteen Roll against Wayne, starring Maya Hawky and William H. Mason.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Whenever you are.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Ready, mister Chief Justice and Maya Pleased the Court.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Episode seven Marble Palace.
Speaker 4 (00:36):
Mister Chief Justice man, please may please the court, please mabe.
Speaker 5 (00:42):
Please the court.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Oh five am? Well that was wrestful.
Speaker 6 (01:02):
Far fucking now, Linda, sh Sarah, no one's around. Who's
gonna hear me? The car doesn't care?
Speaker 2 (01:08):
I hear you. Show some respect to this place. Brother.
We're supposed to go to the Marshall's office first. There
it is. Hello there, I'm Sarah Weddington and this is Linda. Coffee.
We're the lawyers arguing this morning. Sorry, we're a little early.
Speaker 7 (01:28):
Come back in an hour, ladies, you'll still be early.
Speaker 6 (01:31):
Come on, ma'am, have a heart, won't you. We've never
done this before.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
We're nervous as heck.
Speaker 6 (01:36):
Put yourself in our shoes.
Speaker 7 (01:38):
Sorry, I need coffee. Welcome to the Supreme Court, ladies.
Here's a card authorizing what you may and may not
bring into the courtroom and other instructions.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
For you both.
Speaker 7 (01:49):
You have a third, don't you?
Speaker 3 (01:50):
Yes?
Speaker 6 (01:51):
Right, Lucas, I'll be at our table. He won't be
speaking now, let me see these instructions remain seated at
the reserve table through out the argument of the case,
which immediately precedes.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Your case that doesn't apply to us. We're the first
case today.
Speaker 6 (02:06):
When counsel's turn comes for argument, he will proceed to
the rosterrum without being called. He should not begin until
he has been recognized by the Chief Justice. Then he
should open his argument with mister Chief Justice and may
it please the court? Wow?
Speaker 7 (02:23):
Sorry about that. Not a lot of call for a
female version of these.
Speaker 6 (02:27):
This is intense. There are fewer protocols when we meet
the queen.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
How would you possibly know that? Linda? Thank you, ma'am.
Come on, Lyda, let's go.
Speaker 7 (02:37):
Missus Weddington.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Yes, I just want you to know a bunch.
Speaker 7 (02:42):
Of US staffers here at court we're rooting for you today.
Go get them.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Thank you. Thank you so much, Linda. Did you just
hear what she just said to me?
Speaker 6 (03:00):
Keep it together, Sarah. Check out the courtroom, Sarah, Okay,
you look white, I mean more than usual.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
The courtroom is smaller than I thought.
Speaker 6 (03:26):
Three hundred and fifty seats, isn't enough for you. You
think your jan is chompling all of a sudden. Look,
that must be the three minute section, my son.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
For tourists, they sit for three minutes at a time,
then get replaced by a new group.
Speaker 6 (03:40):
Well, that's not gonna be distracting at all.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
But I had no idea. The lawyers stand was this
close to the bench. Why don't they move it back?
My God, when I stand here, if I reach out
my hand and the Chief Justice reaches out here, we
could shake.
Speaker 6 (03:53):
Okay, but you're not gonna do that. Ray, right, Sarah.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
It's like sitting in the dang front row of a
movie theater, says on the ends, won't even be in
my field of vision.
Speaker 6 (04:03):
Breathe, Sarah breathed in an out look. Gifts for us,
handmade goose quill pens. We get to keep these.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Every lawyer who's ever argued here has.
Speaker 6 (04:15):
Oh what is it now, Sarah, why do you look weird?
Speaker 3 (04:18):
No, it's just it reminds me of my father's church.
I wasn't expecting that.
Speaker 6 (04:25):
Okay, this is a bad time for an acid flashback, Sarah.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
The pews, the gallery, the lectern, the stage.
Speaker 6 (04:32):
Okay, is church a happy memory or a sad memory.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
When I was a little girl, I used to entertain
my father's whole congregation.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
There are some of my fondest memories.
Speaker 6 (04:44):
Happy then, if I can just pull you back into
the present for a minute, Sarah, remember what we practiced. Look,
they even put a cheat sheet on the lectern for
you with the Justice seating arrangement. Make eye contact with
Powell on everything related to ninth Amendment. Look at Burger
when pushing the fourteenth. He may be persuadable on that.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
What about black Man?
Speaker 6 (05:06):
Don't focus on him, Harry. Blackman is just burger sidekick.
Convince Warren and Harry will follow, And don't go over
the allotted time. A white light goes on here when
you have a few minutes left, when the red light
goes on, sit your buck down.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
I know I'm the one who told you all that
I got it. Linda good, Okay, So.
Speaker 6 (05:32):
What do you want to do for the next three hours?
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Excuse me, sir, We can't seem to find the lavatory
we're arguing.
Speaker 5 (05:44):
This morning, of course, missus Whittington. It's in the lawyer's lock.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Actually, I only saw a man's room in there, Oh right.
Speaker 5 (05:52):
The women's facilities are in the basement.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
I think, of course, why.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
Wouldn't they be, Sarah, Mama, you look so beautiful, sweetie.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Momma, you remember leading.
Speaker 6 (06:04):
To coffee him? Missus Rigel, how was the fly? Very easy?
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Here?
Speaker 6 (06:09):
The girl's drum scrapook needs you a card?
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Thanks, Mama. Where's Daddy still in the cap?
Speaker 8 (06:14):
Daddy couldn't make it, Dear, What what do you mean?
Speaker 6 (06:20):
He just he couldn't make it? Oh, Sarah, do not
fall apart on me.
Speaker 9 (06:26):
Not now.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Big a day of my life and he couldn't come.
Speaker 6 (06:29):
Excuse me, Missus Rigel, I need Sarah for a second.
Of course, go get ready.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Good luck, it's fine. Daddy's very busy. It's a long
trip from Dallas.
Speaker 8 (06:41):
It's fine, Sarah.
Speaker 6 (06:43):
Your father is a freaking minister and a Texan and
a man. Some part of you feel like if he
was a portive of this and almost wouldn't be worth
you in.
Speaker 8 (06:56):
I guess.
Speaker 5 (07:12):
I can't believe you scored these seats, Katie.
Speaker 10 (07:14):
Must have been expensive.
Speaker 11 (07:15):
It's not a next game, Mike yat they were free.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Did you speak to Sarah this morning?
Speaker 6 (07:21):
Wish your good luck from the group. No, I didn't
want to rattle or we'll catch her after me. I
should be able to breathe again.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
By then, missus Weddington, Thanks coffee, mister Lucas, good to
see you.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
I can't believe this crowdland. Everybody's here. Look. Anne Richards
is sitting right over there.
Speaker 6 (07:42):
By wrong yep, your husband is also two seats away
from Betty for Dan.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
That's Betty for Dan. Oh, and there's Mikey and Katie
from the Institute. There's being deb who those women in
the private area next to the bench.
Speaker 6 (07:55):
I think that's the life's box. Believe me, no Justice's wife.
I used to miss this one.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
I wonder what the justices are doing right now. I
think they're as nervous as we are.
Speaker 6 (08:06):
Are you kidding? They're shaking their robes. They kind of
answer to the Sarah Wennington today.
Speaker 5 (08:18):
What do you see between what distinction do you make
between one and nine months of justice?
Speaker 12 (08:26):
You look nervous, Harry.
Speaker 5 (08:28):
I'm just trying to be prepared, warn.
Speaker 12 (08:30):
Relax, especially with this one. Not a lot of suspense here,
all right, gentlemen, here we go.
Speaker 11 (08:43):
The Honorable the Chief Justice and the Associate Justices of
the Supreme Court of the United States o ya o
ya o ya.
Speaker 6 (08:53):
All right, here we go, Sarah.
Speaker 11 (08:58):
All persons having business before the Honorable the Supreme Court
of the United States are admonished to draw near and
give their attention. But the Court is now sitting.
Speaker 13 (09:12):
Be sitting.
Speaker 12 (09:20):
We'll hear arguments in number eighteen row against uh Wade.
Missus Weddington. You may proceed whenever you're ready.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
Mister Chief Justice, and may it please the Court. The
Texas abortion laws are unconstitutional for two reasons. They're impermissibly vague,
and they violate a woman's rats. They permit abortions only
to save the life of the woman.
Speaker 12 (09:48):
Now, Missus Weddington, does this hold true for doctors as well?
Speaker 2 (09:53):
An interesting question, Chief Justice Burger, Why.
Speaker 5 (09:56):
Thank you, Missus Weddington.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
The current law is unclear, mister Chief Justice. Unless they
can prove it's necessary to save a woman's life, doctors
could be prosecuted under the law. But what if a
woman comes to a doctor alleging she'll commit suicide if
he doesn't give her an abortion.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
What's the doctor to do? The law is too vague,
your honor.
Speaker 5 (10:17):
Let's talk about access, Missus Weddington.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Oh okay, Justice.
Speaker 5 (10:22):
Blackman, you go into it extensively in your brief, But
why is lack of access an undue burden on a woman?
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Thank you for the question, Justice Blackman.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
I would say that all personal and familial problems for
a woman are bound up in pregnancy.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
It changes a woman's life.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
What I mean to say is pregnancy is one of
the most determinative aspects of her life. It disrupts her body,
it disrupts her education, it disrupts her employment, and it
often disrupts her entire family. We feel that because of
this fundamental impact on the woman, she must have access
and ability to decide whether to continue or to terminate
her pregnancy.
Speaker 12 (11:12):
Mister Floyd, when you're ready.
Speaker 14 (11:17):
Mister Chief Justice, and may it please the court.
Speaker 15 (11:20):
It's an old joke, but when a man argues against
two beautiful ladies like these, they are going to have
the last word.
Speaker 5 (11:31):
Get on with it, mister Floyd.
Speaker 14 (11:34):
Yes, mister Chief Justice.
Speaker 15 (11:36):
Yes, Before I proceed, I would like to bring the
lack of standing to the Court's attention. We believe that
this case is moot and should be dismissed outright because
Jane Rowe, as well as the other plaintiffs are no
longer pregnant.
Speaker 12 (11:50):
Mister Floyd, Are you suggesting there are no pregnant females
in the state of Texas.
Speaker 5 (11:57):
This is a.
Speaker 15 (11:58):
Class action suit, mister Floyd, Yes, your honor, But for
a class action suit to be valid, at least one
member of the original suit must have standing.
Speaker 14 (12:07):
None of these plaintiffs in this case do.
Speaker 5 (12:09):
Mister Floyd. In the American judicial system, cases take longer
than nine months to reach us. That's just fact. Under
your reasoning, how could any pregnant woman ever sue?
Speaker 14 (12:20):
Withstanding they cannot justice Blackman?
Speaker 15 (12:23):
Some issues simply have no remedy. What I mean to
say is that the woman makes her choice prior to
the time she becomes pregnant.
Speaker 14 (12:34):
That is the time of choice.
Speaker 12 (12:36):
Or maybe she makes her choice when she decides to
live in Texas.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Mister Floyd, your honors, how long a woman has been
pregnant should be a part of the Texas law and
it is not.
Speaker 5 (12:55):
What distinctions do you make, missus Whittington me, your honor. Yes,
you point out that Texas law doesn't refer to how
long a woman has been pregnant, But what is your opinion?
Speaker 3 (13:07):
It is a I would say I have a more
difficult time saying the state has no ability to regulate
in late pregnancy.
Speaker 10 (13:15):
Justice black Man, Why why is that?
Speaker 3 (13:18):
I think it's more the emotional response to a late pregnancy,
Justice Marshall say, in the seventh or eighth or ninth month,
it might be out of bounds, but it's an emotional
distinction rather than a constitutional one.
Speaker 10 (13:32):
Emotional an emotional response by whom Missus.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
Weddington, Well, I suppose by anyone considering this issue outside
the legal profession, just as Marshall.
Speaker 5 (13:42):
In other words, you don't think there's a legal argument
to me made about the distinction between early and late
term abortions. Missus Weddington.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Well, if we're speaking about a legal context, your honor.
Speaker 12 (13:55):
As long as we're in the courtroom, Missus Weddington, we
may as well.
Speaker 5 (13:58):
This is Weddington. Let me make this simple. Do you
or don't you say that time frame should be a
part of the constitutional question.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
I would say, yes, Your Honor, the number of months
that pass and a pregnancy are relevant.
Speaker 10 (14:11):
Okay, then, mister Floyd, when does life begin?
Speaker 14 (14:26):
Excuse me, Justice Marshall, you heard me.
Speaker 10 (14:30):
You represent the state of Texas. What is your position?
Speaker 9 (14:34):
Is there life in the first few weeks of pregnancy
the last few. Surely, if your state intends to prohibit
abortion on the grounds that it's taking away a life,
you can tell us when the cutoff is, after all,
mister Floyd, laws must be precise.
Speaker 14 (14:53):
Of course, Justice Marshall.
Speaker 16 (14:55):
So when is it, mister Floyd? Is there life after
seven months, seven days one? Now the very moment of conception?
Speaker 8 (15:04):
Perhaps?
Speaker 14 (15:05):
Well, Justice Powell.
Speaker 5 (15:06):
And what scientific data do you have to support whatever
your conclusion is, mister Floyd.
Speaker 17 (15:11):
And be specific, yes, Justice Blackman, it's the development of
the embryo, is Mister Justice.
Speaker 14 (15:22):
I think it's humbling to there are some unanswerable.
Speaker 15 (15:26):
Questions, your honor, And we're talking about when the soul
comes into the unborn, if a person believes in the soul,
the soul.
Speaker 10 (15:38):
You know what, mister Floyd, did?
Speaker 12 (15:40):
I withdraw the question, Missus Weddington, You've made a very
eloquent policy argument against the Texas law. What provisions of
the Constitution do you rely on?
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Chief Justice Burger?
Speaker 3 (16:02):
In the lower court it was held that the right
to terminate a pregnancy rested upon the Ninth Amendment. I
think that the due process clause incorporated into the fourteenth
Amendment is an equally appropriate place the Fourteenth Yes, just
as Blackman prohibiting the deprivation of life, liberty, or property
by the government. We believe that if liberty is meaningful
(16:22):
at all, it should mean liberty from being forced to
continue unwanted pregnancies.
Speaker 18 (16:26):
Missus Weddington, your case then depends primarily on our holding
that the fetus is not a person with constitutional rights.
Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Yes, Justice Brandon.
Speaker 5 (16:35):
So if it were established that the fetus was a life,
you would have a difficult case, wouldn't you, Missus Weddington.
Speaker 19 (16:43):
Oh well, mister Floyd, do you know of any case
anywhere that is that an unborn fetus is a person within.
Speaker 12 (17:03):
The meaning of the Fourteenth Amendment?
Speaker 14 (17:05):
No, mister Chief Justice.
Speaker 15 (17:06):
We can only go back to what the framers of
our Constitution had in mind.
Speaker 18 (17:10):
Really, the framers, you want to take a moment to
rethink that, mister Flood.
Speaker 15 (17:15):
Justice Brennan, I know this Court has given certain rights
to groups that the Framers couldn't have foreseen in their day,
But in this case there is no such rights that are.
Speaker 9 (17:23):
Mister Floyd, I don't think that's Justice Brennan's issue, or
not his Ownly issue anyway.
Speaker 14 (17:29):
What is the issue, Justice Marshall.
Speaker 9 (17:32):
One issue is that the Framers were not particularly involved
in the drafting of the Fourteenth Amendment.
Speaker 10 (17:37):
Mister Floyd. The Amendment was written in eighteen sixty six.
Speaker 9 (17:42):
Or are you suggesting that some of our founding fathers
were immortals, mister.
Speaker 5 (17:46):
Floyd, No, your honor, I misspoke. Sticking with the Fourteenth
Amendment for a moment, mister Floyd, let's look at the text.
Does it define a person as someone who is born?
Speaker 15 (17:59):
It says all persons born or naturalized in the United
States of America are afforded.
Speaker 5 (18:05):
Yes, But that's not the definition of a person, mister Floyd.
That's the definition of a citizen. Isn't it true, mister Floyd,
that the medical profession itself is not an agreement as
to when life begins?
Speaker 14 (18:17):
I think that is true, Justice Blackman.
Speaker 15 (18:20):
But on the twentieth day, practically all of the faculties
are there that you and I have.
Speaker 5 (18:25):
What are you basing that on, mister Floyd?
Speaker 14 (18:27):
On research, your honor?
Speaker 5 (18:28):
You care to be more specific.
Speaker 14 (18:30):
Your honor.
Speaker 15 (18:31):
A fetus is a person within the framework of the Constitution,
simple as that.
Speaker 10 (18:35):
Uh huh.
Speaker 12 (18:36):
Of course, if you're right about that, mister Floyd. You
can sit down. You've won your case.
Speaker 15 (18:41):
Yes, mister Chief Justice, the child has rights. This Court
has been diligent in protecting the rights of the minority,
and we hold that they are a minority, a silent minority,
the true silent minority.
Speaker 14 (18:56):
Who is speaking for these children?
Speaker 15 (18:59):
Where is their protection for right to trial by jury
when the mother wants to abord?
Speaker 5 (19:05):
Okay, But mister Floyd, if the fetus or embryo is
not a person, then you've lost your case. If it's
simple one way, it's just as simple. The other.
Speaker 20 (19:27):
Court observers are now pouring over the questions posed by
the justices for any hints at how they might be leaning.
The Court's decision has the potential to completely disrupt upcoming elections.
In his previous life, Chief Justice Burger was an active
member of the Republican Party. Can he now tune out
the GOP's vocal desire to end the expansion of rice
(19:50):
begun under the previous court, or will this case end
up expanding them even more?
Speaker 6 (20:10):
How on earth did I let you drive me here? Sarah?
I feel like I'm on a sixth grade field trip.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
Stop complaining will you how often are we in d
see Linda?
Speaker 2 (20:20):
You think I'm not going to see the Lincoln Memorial.
Speaker 6 (20:22):
I'm just saying it's a strange way to celebrate what
we just finished.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
And I think it's the perfect way. Let's pay our
quick respects to honest tape. Then I want to see
the Air and Space Museum and take one of those
paddle boat things over to the Jefferson.
Speaker 6 (20:34):
Okay, just promise me we're not going back to the
Supreme Court because the guided door would feel a little intoclimactic.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Oh hush, Linda. Anyway, what do we have better to do?
The case is officially out of our hands down. All
we can do is wait, Hi, there.
Speaker 21 (20:50):
You two lovely ladies enjoying the sights.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
We sure are well.
Speaker 21 (20:53):
My buddies and I are heading over to duke Zieberts
for some drinks. Would you ladies care to join?
Speaker 6 (20:57):
We're fine things anyway?
Speaker 10 (20:59):
What about you, doll?
Speaker 3 (21:00):
I'm sorry, we have a bunch of more sized to
see today orally in town a couple of days.
Speaker 21 (21:04):
Okay, Well, can't blame a guy for trying. Where are
you all visiting from from Dallas? No, the Cowboys are
my team. What do you all do down there?
Speaker 2 (21:13):
We're lawyers.
Speaker 10 (21:14):
Get out of here.
Speaker 21 (21:16):
My pal over there and I are at Georgetown Law.
Speaker 10 (21:18):
Where are you two in school or not?
Speaker 6 (21:20):
We're practicing?
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Yeah, right, No, we are really re litigators.
Speaker 10 (21:25):
Mm hmm. Ever argued a case before?
Speaker 8 (21:28):
Uh huh, you could say.
Speaker 12 (21:31):
So, all right, let's get going, gentlemen. Anybody need anything
before we start deliberations?
Speaker 10 (21:43):
Water, coffee, But let's just get going more.
Speaker 12 (21:46):
And find that Michael, take this back to my chambers.
Tell the other porters we're squared away and let the
clerks know. We'll be in closed conference. No disturbances.
Speaker 10 (21:56):
Yes, your.
Speaker 14 (22:02):
The state has the right to protect the fetus.
Speaker 5 (22:04):
End of story.
Speaker 12 (22:05):
Diving right in then, thank you, whizar.
Speaker 18 (22:07):
Oh Hawash Council demonstrated that the state has never given
a fetus rights before. The young lady proved her argument.
Speaker 10 (22:14):
Yes she did, and the other lawyer, Floyd did himself.
No favors. The Texas Statute is rife with contradictions.
Speaker 12 (22:21):
Doesn't mean we should strike it down their goood. It's
still the state's issue to deal with. We should send
it back to them.
Speaker 18 (22:28):
The country expects a resolution to this issue. We're not
dodging at this time.
Speaker 12 (22:31):
Hey, no one's dodging anything, Bill, but it's not necessarily
our role to weidhe in.
Speaker 10 (22:36):
The hell it isn't. The country's a mess. We can't
have abortion illegal in the South and legal in the north.
Speaker 12 (22:42):
Oh, come on, do not equate this with eighteen sixty
The good he's not whizzer. I'll be damned that this
is going to become my dread Scott. But we also
can't pretend this won't inflame the country whichever way we
come down, Harry, what do you think?
Speaker 16 (22:59):
I'm well, maybe, now let's get into specifics. What about
when the woman is married, does the husband have any
say in whether she kills the baby?
Speaker 10 (23:09):
It's not a baby, Lewis, and it's not killing.
Speaker 12 (23:12):
Yes, But if we buy the privacy argument, husbands will
have no control whatsoever.
Speaker 5 (23:17):
And I have a lot of trouble with that, so
do I.
Speaker 12 (23:20):
I'm not about to suggest the ninth Amendment of the
Constitution allows anybody to do anything they like in private,
and certainly not something like this without consulting the father.
Speaker 10 (23:29):
No, certainly not.
Speaker 12 (23:30):
And I'd be interested to see the research about whether
there's a connection between promiscuity and abortion.
Speaker 9 (23:35):
Holy hell, wizard. People aren't going to use it as
a form of birth control.
Speaker 16 (23:39):
I have trouble with the idea that taxpayer money goes
towards the procedure.
Speaker 10 (23:44):
It's less than what they'll pay for welfare.
Speaker 5 (23:46):
Lewis, Come on, all right, all right?
Speaker 10 (23:49):
Should we take a vote? See where we are?
Speaker 9 (23:51):
Absolutely not. We need to talk some more, Warren. We've
barely scratched the surface.
Speaker 12 (23:55):
Let's just see where we're at their good. All those
for striking down the Texas abortion law? Okay, all opposed? Okay,
so that's about even with a couple of abstentions. Wait, Harry,
I missed your vote.
Speaker 5 (24:09):
No you didn't. I didn't make one.
Speaker 10 (24:11):
You're not voting, Harry.
Speaker 5 (24:12):
I think we should talk more. We haven't even begun
on medical ethics, and I want to reread some of
the briefs.
Speaker 10 (24:18):
Look at that.
Speaker 16 (24:19):
I can't remember you ever not voting with your pal
on a first go round.
Speaker 12 (24:24):
You're out of line, Lewis.
Speaker 5 (24:25):
I'm not voting with or against anyone. I'm simply abstaining
until I have a chance to really dig into some
of this.
Speaker 12 (24:32):
Are you kidding me?
Speaker 10 (24:32):
Harry? We discussed this, You discussed it. The hell does
that mean.
Speaker 16 (24:36):
I don't think you two should be discussing your vote
before all arguments.
Speaker 10 (24:40):
Oh please, you're always coluding with with me?
Speaker 18 (24:43):
Hey the hell, Hey, Convince.
Speaker 16 (24:45):
All you want point is this conference room is where
we should first see where we all stay agreed.
Speaker 10 (24:51):
Otherwise there's the potential for too much politicking.
Speaker 12 (24:54):
All right, All right enough, Harry, what's your vote?
Speaker 5 (24:56):
Stop muddling around? I told you, Warren, I need to
give further.
Speaker 12 (24:59):
Con veteration, should find you do that. In any event,
I'm assigning the opinion to Harry.
Speaker 18 (25:04):
What talking about Warren?
Speaker 12 (25:06):
Harry is our resident expert in all medical matters. He
worked at the Mayo Clinic.
Speaker 10 (25:10):
For years as in house counsel. Warren. He wasn't operating
on people anyway.
Speaker 12 (25:15):
Harry hasn't written the decision in a major case.
Speaker 18 (25:17):
Yet exactly, So what it's his turn in the rotation
or something, Warren. That's not how we do things.
Speaker 9 (25:22):
Bigger issue, gentlemen, this isn't your case to assign Warren.
Douglas is the senior justice in the majority, So no.
Speaker 5 (25:28):
No, he's not.
Speaker 12 (25:29):
There's no majority yet their goods, so the chief makes
the assignment.
Speaker 10 (25:33):
I could argue with the exact opposite with him.
Speaker 12 (25:35):
We're done here, gentlemen.
Speaker 13 (25:45):
Warren, hold up a second. You sure your boy is
up for this? Lewis stop.
Speaker 16 (25:51):
I know Harry is your friend, but he's only been
here a short time.
Speaker 5 (25:54):
He's not nearly ready for this. What the hell are
you up to?
Speaker 10 (25:58):
Warren?
Speaker 5 (26:00):
Don't worry about it, Supreme.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
The Battle Farrow from iHeart Podcasts, created and written by
Aaron Tracy, directed by Rachel Winter, starring Maya Hawk, William h. Macy,
and Abigail Breslin, also featuring Laura Bonanti as b Andrea
Savage as deb William Fickner as Warren, Felicity Huffman as Dottie,
(26:28):
Peter Oldring as j Floyd, Luke Kirby as Roy, and
Katie Kuric as the Reporter. Executive produced by Eva Longoria,
Ben Spector, Rachel Winter and Aaron Tracy, as well as
Katrina Norvell in Anna Stump from iHeart produced by Kelly
and Kelly. Executive producers for Kelly and Kelly are Chris Kelly,
(26:50):
Lauren Berkovich, and Pat Kelly. Produced by Tamara Black for
Kelly and Kelly. Director of Audio Chris Kelly. Original score
by Hamilton Lighthauser and Anna Stump. Sound designed by Paul Teduscini,
Edited by Max Collins. For a full list of credits,
please see show notes.
Speaker 14 (27:15):
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