Episode Four: I'm Survivin' The Bullets Pt. 1

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Content warning. This episode will discuss a lot of heavy
topics such as homicide. Please be kind to yourself, prepare
yourself with before and or after care, and if you
or loved one's going through it, you can reach out
to the Crisis Call Center at D to seven three,

(00:25):
or you can reach out to Compassionate Friends at eight
seven seven nine zero zero one zero. Thank you. Join
us to explore the stories, policies, and practices and ideas.

(00:53):
This is with your host, Oh yeah, yeah Hill. Welcome, Welcome, Welcome,
good people. This is your host, Oya El Sharels and
this is Survivor's Hell, a podcast of the Next Up Initiative.
Today's episode is a two parter. We are calling I'm

(01:14):
Surviving the Bullets Part one, and we talk with two
unique voices in the field of anti gun violence advocacy.
In the first part, we journey with the advocate, mentor
and tattoo artists Rock Philip Lester, who shares his experience
of being on both sides of the gun and what
it took for him to emerge as a survivor, who

(01:36):
pushes back against a system that has sought to punish
individuals far beyond their completed sentences. In the second part,
we are joined in conversation by our second gun violence survivor,
Too Hungry, and we hear perspectives from Coding Dreams as
well to discuss how art can fluctuate between healing and

(01:57):
harmful vibes. Some quick fact about these issues. According to
Gifford's Law Center, gun homicides and assaults disproportionately impact historically
underserved communities of color, like the ones our guests are from.
Black Americans are eleven times more likely than white Americans
to be killed in a gun homicide. And in this climate,

(02:21):
according to the research of c s s J Crime
Survivors for Safety and Justice, state spending on victims services
represents only about one percent of what the state spends
on the prison system. In other words, California spends nearly
eighty times more on prisons than on services for crime survivors.

(02:46):
Now let's jump in. So in today's episode, what we'd
like to discuss is how do we go from harmful
behavior to healing behavior? And I wanted to start with
rock story, really just checking in with you to see

(03:08):
like what has it been, what what is your healing journey?
If you can just even start from the beginning, tell
us about you, how you started and who you've become. Alright, cool,
that's a big question there. And the stories. I'm not
kind of like being on an idea of the stories

(03:30):
because everybody kind of like you don't tell a story.
I'm gonna say experience, because an experience is real, and
that's basically what you know. Everybody is. Everybody is basically
like the some total of the experiences. So that's like
most of the time when you're trying to get a
chance to know somebody, the first thing you try to
do is try to find some things out of bottom,
like what it kind of like happened in the past,

(03:51):
or what if they're been like in the past, right,
So that gives you an indication of who you're dener
within the present. Right. So that's why I say, you know,
we are to some total of our experiences. Nothing against
the ideal of story. A lot of times people have
you know, it might not necessarily be the experiences. It's
just a story, you know. I don't told many stories.
It wasn't about experience, you know me so, but just

(04:12):
to speak on the experience, everybody called me. Rock grew
up in south central l A. Like over l A.
So you know, Um, I had folks that this state
on a hundred and second, you know, right across from
what was called will Rogers Park, right across from Wastsburger's
extended family. So I always got a chance to go

(04:32):
over there. So I had a connection to folks that
was you know in Watt's Folks on my dad's side,
um from Haiti Ni migrated this way. They found their
way to the publo of housing projects right on the
east side. Folks on my mom's side came this way,
migrated from Mississippi, from near to Realte, from Real too
here to l A. And my grandmother bought a house

(04:55):
way back some years ago off a fifty knife and
uh denker right there body Harvard Park because she had
the house before it slaws and swapped me. Was there
anybody knows about Harvard Park? Now? You know herr Park
goes from Halldale to Harvard. But you know, my grandmother
bought the house over here. You can take dinker all
the way through um the parks that on two sides
of the park. So I saw long she had the
house over there there. My mom she wind up living

(05:19):
in the space in place that was over there for
eight and simaraan the backside of her house about a
block of sow Away or St. Andrew's Park. So I've
been known to kind of like growing up in areas
around parks and projects, you know what I mean. So
definitely a park kid got understanding of the project living
has lived in the projects before. But you know, me

(05:40):
just growing up in up l A and no one
was there, wind up being a part of you know,
some of the stuff that was there in regards to
you know, uh, I say that the community, street activity
and just you know, having the experience there and being
a survivor of a crime. And let's say, a survivor
don't like the term victim. And most folks that come

(06:01):
from the streets don't like the term victim because you
hear the term like you know, you're gonna victimize somebody.
A victim is not a weak right so, but but
definitely a survivor and you know that that that speaks
power into the experience. It speaks power into the traumatic experience.
You know, it's just not experiences. Traumatic experience speak power
into that to where that instead of succumbing to that,

(06:24):
you was able to overcome that right, and that's kind
of like, you know, being a survivor making it through.
So I was able to accept the idea of survivor
and even talking about my experiences based on that fact.
You would have came to me and told me he
was a victim, will be out here fighting, you know
what I mean. You know, I'm saying that's not what
we're doing. But the reality of the fact after kind

(06:46):
of like you know, elevating from that type of state
of mind understanding the fact that you know something happening
to you know, fourteen years old, got shot twice, fourteen,
next year she got shut again fifteen. Those were crimes,
Those are criminal actus that was committed you know, against me.
But you know, you're out there and that lifestyle, living
in the streets, your understanding of that becomes different. It's

(07:09):
not the normal understanding. It becomes a street oriented or
underworld type of understanding, and that is this is a
part of the game, right, So you don't look like
somebody did something to you and you need to report
it or you need to go get some services. This
looks like, you know, this is basically how I go
and you know, and living that idea, this how it's

(07:29):
supposed to go and not giving resources and resources not
being allocated to you or not even know what the
resource is. You kind of like live in the harbor.
That kind of like trauma. And I'm gonna say this
for folks that do come out to tell the story experience.
Every time you do that, you relive that. You know,
when you're going through there and you're talking about, you
know what happened to you, It takes you back in

(07:50):
real time. So a lot of times, you know, i'd
be cool because it's like you have to go back.
You you see it, you know what you're talking about it,
you see it, you know what I'm saying, And not
only do you kind of like you know, see it.
For those it's been like I'm gonna say, who got
like wounds on them? You know what I'm saying, marks
like indelible marks that you can't kind of like hard
when you get in the shower, like you know, you

(08:11):
you rub over those things, you rub over those, but
it wounds if you don't have some surgeries, you know,
I had to have half of my um well actually
all of my small intestines like taking out when that happened.
So they cut my stomach leg all the way open, right,
So I got a long scar. And that's when I
was a kid. So I used to you know, go places,
you know, be and stuff like that, and people always like,

(08:31):
what happened to you? You know what I'm saying. So
I was passed it and living like, you know, my life.
But every time I you know, it took my shirt off,
I've seen it, And every time I've seen it, I
relived it when I'm you know, going over while washing
up and I gotta rub over that, you know, I
feel that, you know what I mean, and it takes
me kind of like back to that. So it took
a minute for me to kind of like gravitate away
from that to be able to talk about it in

(08:52):
this context because most of the time when I felt
that it took me back in the way they took
me back. It took me also back to a state
of thinking like this ain't kind of like over though,
like you know what I'm saying, you kind of like,
you know, you you're want to perpetrate this on somebody else,
like you know what I'm saying, like, and that's what
that's what it kind of like was, you know, a
lot of stuff kind of like come along. Um because

(09:13):
the first time I got shot those two times, the
other the first time I actually got hit the hud
be getting shot at since I was I don't know,
kind of like when it's crazy, you know what I mean.
But um my uncle got killed that first time to
you know what I'm saying, this happening in my grandmother yard.
You know, you go back and just not talking about
that incident, but everything that kind of like surrounded that,
you know what I'm saying. So you remember that day,

(09:34):
You remember that hour, remember that second, remember that moment
like before it kind of like happened, you know what
I'm saying. You also remember, are still harbor some of
that hate, our anger, you know what i mean. So
for me a long time ago, like I want to
kind of talk about this, you know I'm saying, make
you want to tear up, and you know what I'm saying,
go pick something up and like go back to that.
And it's like, you know, I have to do my

(09:54):
own like you know, stuff like coping and understanding. Like
I know a lot of folks go to therapy and
did different things, and I don't take that nothing away
from nobody. But I'm gonna say, um, you know, the
best type of person to kind of like heal you,
I believe kind of like is you. You know what
I'm saying, But you gotta kind of like know you.
That's like you know when they had the Egyptian you know,
mysteries and stuff like that, and you know before you
walked inside those temples, like right over the head of

(10:16):
the doors that you was walking through and said know thyself.
I think that's one of the key things, like you
know what I'm saying. So I had to get a
chance to kind of like, no rock, you know what
I mean, what make rock tick? What can kind of
like push rock to the edge and then order to
kind of like you know, understand what happened, how we
get around, learn from experience, and then translated into you know,

(10:38):
a way to helping me here, but also other folks
understand and heal from their own wounds, and not to
kind of like, um, go down some of the pathways
that I went, because a lot of the stuff wind
up casting because there was responses. You know, you're talking
to kids. It's fourteen. It's kind of been the street
activity everybody around something like that. Happened. It's not good.
It's so bad. You get you know, shout again, fifteen,

(10:59):
It's not good. It's all bad. You know what I'm saying.
You had an idea that somebody's trying to get you, right,
you know what I'm saying that whether it's real or not,
but somebody's trying to get you. And you know, when
it comes to life, life is about like self preservation,
you know what I'm saying. So, now you got an
individual who was fourteen years old who in that experienced
like that. You know, I say, my mama was right

(11:20):
there when it happened too. So it's like it ain't
like that my mama can protect me, you know what
I'm saying. It ain't like all the homies can protect me. Like,
so you start to feel like you need something that
can protect you. And the only thing you think that
could protect you, and you know what I'm saying, it's
not even true, but the only thing you think they
can protect you, it's a gun. Now you've got a
fourteen year old kid, fifteen year old kid who've been

(11:40):
kind of like wounded, right, and it's kind of like
scared for his life, not actually saying it but you know,
scared for his life. So now he got a gun, right,
and this person becomes easily triggered happy you know what
it's like to get hit and ain't trying to get
hit again. So it's like, you know, I'm gonna get
down before somebody else get down. And then sometime it'd
be unprovoked the situations, you know what I'm saying, And

(12:03):
then you find yourself doing something that's like damn, I
mightn't even have to like, um do that. So you know,
I just want to go like real fast into like
part of the story of rock because one thing, uh
as as a youth, right, where a lot of just
like you know, trying to like you know, just just started.
You know. I used to steal cars like crazy. Um no, lie,
like I used to well as a little kid, I
used to It was just so easy. I wanted to

(12:24):
learning how to like steal cars and U I used
to do it because I said, there's different locations when
my folks day, you know, I had to get there,
and you know, taking the bus in l A was vicious,
you know what I mean. So it was called the RTD.
Then you know what I'm saying, we call it the rough,
tough and dangerous, you know what I mean. So you
had to watch it. And every every year with that
bus stop, it was somebody area. Sometimes you have people

(12:45):
on bus patrol. They would wait for that bus to
stop in the area and get on that bus to
see who's on there. So you know, you get tired
of that. Then you gotta get off the bus. And
you know, if you can't fight them all that, you
gotta run. And you're running from these dudes and they hood.
You know, I'm running into a net. Oh no, I
gotta be a better system. So the only system not conclude.
You know what I'm saying. It was I'm still in
the car. You know what I'm saying. I'm driving somebody car.

(13:07):
You know what I'm saying. Just you know just what
it was. You have to be out there. So that
was you know, it was like it was criminal. But
you don't you you're looking at it like this is
It's what I'm doing it for. I'm not taking these
people card. It had joy riding rather, Hey, I got
places to kind of like go and be and like
my mama, you know what I'm saying. She didn't care
about none of that stuff. You know what I'm saying,

(13:27):
you're gonna be out here, You're gonna go here, You're
gonna go there. Different reality. But you know, as things
kind of like you know, progress, stuff got kind of
like more serious as you know, growing up in l A.
And I think people can understand, like case speak on
other environments. Don't know a lot of other environments. Being
young in l A. At the height of a lot
of the drama, the gang activity, et cetera, they communicated

(13:50):
something altogether different than what it looks like today. Right
it was it was it was super like serious. And
beyond it being super serious. You know, you wasn't afford
the luxury, the luxury of being low key. That was
that was out. You know what I'm saying. You have
to be an attire uniform like daily. So you knew

(14:12):
a blood from a crypt, you knew a crypt from
a blood, You knew a blood in the crypt from
a regular ordinary just you know, square type of person.
Squares didn't dressed like members at all. People was actually
scared of that these days. Things is you know, different
to going through all that you know, um, the experiences
into the trauma and also you know incarceerration came as

(14:32):
a result, you know this activity, you know, sixteen years old,
um getting tried as an adult. You know what I'm
saying for for game related crime. You know, so you
had a domino effect that you know, fourteen getting shot,
fifteen getting shot sixteen. I'm sitting in a cool room,
you know what I mean, and you know, tried his
adults don't even necessarily know what that means, looming sentence,

(14:55):
forty two years of life And the only thing I'm
thinking is like the cool room is keeping these people
that never do this to me based on you know,
I was being SI the sixteen. But what I realized
that did nobody in that courtroom at that time care
about me being sixteen? With me and my mama. Once
I was tried as an adult, you had everything that

(15:16):
was coming to you as an adult. You went to
Adulpe court, they came and pick you up from the
juvenile holes, put you on the bus with adults from
opposing games, your high security. Just like you're in there
for shooting somebody or killing somebody. Dan there for the
same thing you didn't shot one day hummies, kill one

(15:37):
day hummies. And at the same as yours. And it
ain't nice for nobody because everybody dates or what they're
looking at this time, it's Buck Rogers. It's it's out there, right,
and that's just fighting it not seeing getting you know, convicted.
God was the experienced. So most of my life I
grew up being grown and just put it just like that,

(16:00):
grew up being grown. My mom had nine kids. I
was the oldest before I went to the system, since
she having like eight and that was the oldest. So
you know, mom had been when she was up sixteen,
you know, sixteen, you know she said a kid. So
when she got my sister, then my brother, it was
time that I was the second care of the secondary caregiver.
You know what I'm seeing her guardian ship. I wonna

(16:22):
be goal. I gotta cook, I gotta do all different
types of stuff, you know what I'm saying. I gotta
hold stuff down. You know, never had the opportunity just
to be just like you know, kids, a kid, raising
kids and then being out there in the streets. It's like,
you know, you're not afforded to be a kid when
you chose to live that type of lifestyle, when you
cut up in the games and all that when you're
in the parking lots to you on the blocks, the

(16:43):
last thing you want somebody to look at you as
being a kid. You won't even to take you serious.
So if you twelve, you out there acting like you eighteen,
everything is serious. Somebody trying to get at you out
of pocket or treat you like a kid. You're ready
to act up to let people know like you're not
the one, all right, and then getting tried as a
didn't have to go to prison that way, now you
know who? A prison still not giving the opportunity to

(17:08):
be a kid, because now you're in the del facility,
you know what I'm saying. And again, nobody's and there
caring about you being seventeen, right, All they know is
that you're here. You're there for a reason. You get
what I'm saying. If you here, then you here for
a reason and they're gonna treat you accordingly. So it

(17:28):
propelled me to kind of like grow up like fast
and mature afterwards. You know, looking back, I swear it
just the other day I was just driving just reminiscing,
like you look back to everything you've haven't been through
is like damn, you know what I'm saying, like, how
am I hear? You know what I'm saying when you
look back on up and stuff like how did I
survive that? Back back to like how did I actually
survive that? Right? So I want to put this in here.

(17:51):
The first time I heard like, you know, the world
like like just using the word survivor, I think it
was Destiny Child's right. They came out with this with
the Sun called I'm a survivor, And it was around
like I think it's like two thousand and three down
in two swoop in the area, right, and I wasn't
even a death and y'll fan, I'm keep hunting. But
when I heard that, that spoke like volumes to me,
like then I was in assistance, I'm swere. It was

(18:12):
like damn, like you know what I'm saying. I was
surviving that. You know, I've seen a lot of people
get hurd up inside. There was like I was seventeen
coming this thing and I'm surviving this, like you know
what I mean, Like and then being able to get
past that doing you know, the work that I do
down and then you know, helping survivors of crime and
embracing you know that the idea always take it back
to you know, a statement that was inside they sung

(18:32):
and it was like, you know, I'm a survivor. I'm
not gonna give you know what I'm saying. I was
able to accept that in because again that represent any
kind of like power, you know, just hearing the word
kind of like a survivor, but knowing you know, when
the individual went through and look back is like them.
But the whole ideal is for as me being who
I am now. And it's like saying all those experiences,
it's like mathematics with me. I love mathematics, right. I

(18:55):
gotta just a social degree, but I got a minor
in mathematics and a major and social side. Right, So
you know with mathematics, like if you got three numbers
down there, you know, if you got one plus two
and then plus three, you know that six. But if
you if you eliminate the one, you know what I'm saying,
it's something less dean or other than it's not gonna
add up to six because you just now took out
one of the elements that's inside the equation at six. Right,

(19:19):
So I look at that almost like kind of like life.
If you mind, is any of those experiences that Rock had,
you wouldn't have rock today. You know what I'm saying.
You have sudden less than or other than, but it
wouldn't be rock right here. So again that goes back
to like, you know, copulation of experiences. It's kind of
like you know, uh, put us here. But with that
and just knowing what was dear, I don't think nobody

(19:41):
is fourteen years old man should be having somebody standing
over I'm trying to shoot him. And the only thing
that you know help you survive is that you know,
you throw your arm up in front of your head,
and you know what I'm saying, that they shoot you
in the shoulder, and the shoot you in the chest,
and they run out of bullets. And the reason why
they under out of other bullets is because before they
shot you, they used the rest of the bullets on
your uncle. Going through that and knowing where l A

(20:02):
is like and the pitfalls that is out there, this
is what kind of like, you know, compelled me to
kind of do the stuff I do for young folks.
And then being fifteen and the only thing and stop
you from having somebody and blow your head off is
that you've seen they shadow coming around the corner through
a window, and you had enough time to disting yourself

(20:26):
from the bus stop from what they just drove by
and seeing you at that right there, it was that
that that minor towards it was disting myself and when
this individually hit the corner where he thought I was,
I wasn't. And then it becomes a foot race, and
this is where all your football skills come in. Where

(20:46):
you're trying to dodge to tackle. Now you're trying to
dodge death. You're trying to miss the bullet with somebody
about thirty ft behind you, gunning for your life. And
then from fifteen to sixteen, you're sitting in front of
a court room and folks that don't understand your life,
your reality of your experiences and just know what you
have been here for and it was a bad crime.

(21:08):
You know they know is that they want to give
you for you two years of life and you're sixteen.
That's insane. So the reality, the fact is the situations
in the conditions that put kids, young folks in these positions.
How do you kind of like change that. I know
some stuff that could have kind of like helped rock right,
But then I know some stuff that you know, just

(21:30):
that's just mooving into the environment. Right. But the whole
thing is how do you prevent somebody from having that experience? Right?
So if I didn't did it, I mean you you
shouldn't kind of like have to do it, right unless
you just want to do it and you think it's
a game. It ain't the game, you know what I'm saying.
But you know it's it's it's it's a bunch to
come along with it, and it's a lot of like,
you know, a sacrifice. So when I tell a Rock,

(21:52):
like you know, um, story this is this is not
a story. This is real. This is this experience, this
is document. This is one you can go look up like, hey,
this is the real experience. And those experiences sometime, you know,
moves people change people. Right. So I remember the first
time I got shot, I was in the high spool
for a long time. There's a bunch of stuff that
was going along with me, right, But one of these

(22:13):
individuals told me out the area, right, they say, man,
this is two things that gonna happen. Rock. It's either
you're gonna turn all the way up. You're gonna turn
all the way down, and you know, it wasn't no
turning down, you know what I mean? So what you
had was turning all the way up. And with that
consisted of was again now being not just a person

(22:34):
that is a victim of a crime, but now someone
that want to be a perpetrator of a crime. The
individual that don't want to be on the end of
the gun getting shot, but the individually want to be
on the end of the gun doing the shoot right.
And then you realize at the end of the day,
with it all amounted to nothing, still shot, got a

(22:57):
bullet on my spawing on, will still go lost? Other
a lot of other homies in the process. What did
it all amount to? Where where do they take your individual?
It didn't take an individual up. It took an individual
down physically, incarceration to take an individual down mentally? Did
you get a lot of stressful times and depression, et cetera,

(23:18):
and took an individually down spiritually? You know, for you
to be holding onto a gun and just gun holding
the streets and just indiscriminately jumping out, walking up and
trying to shoot people, hey, your spirit got to kind
of be like low. Your spirit gotta kind of like
be low. You've gotta be somewhere else, almost like numb

(23:40):
to life. Really well, after those things, it's kind of
like over and you kind of like, you know, reminiscent,
look back on some of those things. You feel the emotion,
you know what I'm saying, especially when all the numbing
they start to wear off and you become more human again,
because sometimes out there in the streets, letna keep it
one honey, Like I said at time, the street his
monster's you know what I mean, In order for you

(24:03):
to survive in the streets, keep away games to people
don't want to hear this and say that, Hey, but
you gotta be a monster. You gotta be a beast.
We say it all the time. People say I'm a beast,
I'm a savage, and I just mean you gotta be hord.
You know what I'm seeing. I speaking to the fact
that you're a master, but speaking to the fact that
you've gotta be hord. You gotta be tough, you gotta
have callous and hold that thought. We'll be right back

(24:28):
after a word from our sponsors. So speaking to the experience,
and you know where we're at now and what I'm doing,

(24:48):
like using my experience, but not using my experience, because
folks never kind of like, you know, hear my story.
You'll never kind of like hearing my story. So we're
here on this podcast and the Survivor's Hell. So it's
just designed to speak to the folks that's out there,
that is, you know, survivors, right. But some of the
young folks were all the young folks I work with,
they kind of like, you know, you never know the story.

(25:09):
They just kind of like see the result, right, And
that's what I kind of want to push the back
in and they work and I'm doing all right. You
find out about rock later on, and you probably have
a great appreciation about rock. But I'm here for one thing.
And I didn't tell some of these kids, but I
got some tough kids. But l A, I got some
big kids too. These kids be like seventeen years old,
these kids about like six ft five, talk to individual

(25:30):
tough and I'm like, man, you know, man, I'll beat
you up for your own good. You know what I'm saying.
Real deal, for your own good, I beat you up.
You know what I mean? And you know and something
the black man, what you're talking about? It? They man,
you're grown. I'm grown, but you're talking to me like
a kid. Bro, Like, listen, I'm trying to help you.
You don't get it, bro, But those conversations that kind
of like tough love. Man. I have a lot of

(25:50):
these kids out here. You know what, Central l a
part of Compton we didn't work with. You know what
I'm saying. Through the Through the Reverence Project, we're programs
like Gloves over Guns, community sending and also we have
our youth Entrepreneurship program we're about to launch. You know,
we had an open view another space teaching young folks
how to be you know, owners, to put them in
a position actually to where they can actually own their

(26:12):
own business and be able to run that from their
bed row. Right. They get it, you know that only
they get it. But parents get it too, and especially
to parents because you you have mothers out here thiss
losing their kids, and you have fathers out here this
losing their daughters. It's like that now, you know what
I'm saying, Ladies is under fire as well in these streets.

(26:33):
And I tell people all the time, like you don't
want to be your kid. And I remember my mama
told me the second time you know what I'm saying.
The first time she was there, you know, since she
witnessed the hood kid there. But she was like, man,
she was like, no parents and hear this out, she said,
no parents, she had to bury their kids. I lived

(26:53):
with that. That was on my mind like a lot.
You know. My mom was even like, you know, they
called her and told her I was in jail. It
was like for what she was like, oh, it's crazy.
But to note that I was in jailing, that call
wasn't a call to saying it. You know, Rock Philip
is not dead. It was a relief they know that
I was in jail, you know what I'm saying, opposed
and being dead. So these are the real realities and

(27:16):
real experiences and real stories that you know, I know
firsthand that still exists in the communities kind of like
where we come from because we experienced in death like
you know daily, And and it's young people when they
pulled them, she's back predominantly. You know what I'm saying.
It's black kids. It's keeping it all the way gamester
that you know what I'm saying. We talk about, you know,
the work that is being done, intervention, prevention, etcetera. You know,

(27:39):
it's many of gangs, but a lot of that stuff
is centering around red and blue blood and crip activity.
You know, that has interpreted differently in our communities and
gangs and for some other folks. People's really a dear
man self genocide. I say self genocide because we are
there killing individuals as are as us basically, you know,
I'm saying, it's is real deal. It's killing folks that

(28:01):
as us like self genocide. Like you know, but how
did you get out of the mindset of self genocide?
How did you get out of the mindset of revenge
and get into the track where you wanted to heal
and see results. I'm really be honest, I'm gonna say
it's kind of like force and forced understanding. And you know,

(28:22):
I know a lot of people always, like you know,
speak bad about the system, and I'm not here to
promote the system. But um hey, I needed Jill. I'm
not gonna lie. I was. I was horribly bad, you
know what I'm saying, And nobody like tell me nothing.
You know what I'm saying, Like I mean, you could,
but you couldn't, you know what I mean? You Like
I said, I'm grown out there. I didn't been you know,
shot exit amount of times. You know what I'm saying.

(28:42):
I'm walking through the street and I'm I'm in a
survival mode. You can't tell me nothing less because it's real.
I'm checking every car. Dudes has been in corners. This
ship is real. People around you is getting killed. You
know what I'm saying. This is real. So I needed
a break from the action. You know, didn't have to
be jail though. I mean, imagine if you have been

(29:04):
that fourteen year old kid, having witnessed seen your uncle
be murdered, having gotten shot yourself, if you had actually
had resources for your healing, if somebody has swooped in,
and if you would have been able to tell an advocate.
You know what, I'm fearing for my safety. I don't

(29:25):
feel safe out here. You know, I'm I know I'm
gonna be looking for these people. I know I'm gonna be,
you know, not comfortable just walking down the street. And
they said, you know what, We're gonna make sure that
you and your family get relocated. We're going to make
sure that you and your family get therapy. We're going
to make sure that you and your family find the
things that can help bring you peace in your life.

(29:47):
We're going to connect you with um, with your art,
you know, and and give you something to channel um
this energy into this this anger, this hate, this hate
that you at the moment, do you feel like you
still wouldn't need a jail? Now? I understand the resources,
and I think the resources is great, right, The resources

(30:07):
is good for something, you know what I'm saying. So, yes,
folks do need those resources right for you to understand
kind of like, hey, what you haven't been through, how
you feel you know what I'm saying, and what you're
going through. So I said, the conversations I got from
folks after this was you know, turned up and turned down,
you know what I'm saying. It wasn't like, hey, man,
like you know, let's talk about this, you know what
you went through and how we get some healing from this.

(30:29):
That wasn't even in the conversation, you know what I'm saying.
But I say that the reason why I say the
system that's a different type of like you know, package
with the resources. Even understanding that with a conversation, I
think just some resources, it wouldn't have probably stopped me
from having some dislike for some dudes that were just
a different color from my dead you know what I'm saying,
or push a different alphabet than what I did. The

(30:52):
system was different. You go up inside there and you
realize some of the dudes that you may have a
disdain for, it's gonna be the individual of the side
there that's gonna really be trying to safeguard your life
when it go down, because what you have inside there,
and a lot of cases, is you have racial tension.

(31:13):
So when it comes to you know, the red and
the blue yet that that's an issue at times, but
the biggest issue, it's just you just being black. So
now the individual that you was opposed to, you find
yourself back to back trying to keep him alive and
he's trying to keep you alive. What that does is

(31:35):
that speak a whole different type of reality into your experiences,
into your life. So the individual that you considered the foe,
it is easily a friend now, right. I had a
problem with that. First I was inside the system, black
dar like, what these dudes over here from you know
what I'm saying, Dudes like bro like, you know, kick
back on that. So I thought, you know, the dudes
I was up there that had issues with folks that

(31:57):
some other races because some of the areas. But they
had you know, they fought other racist you know, I'm
laiter hard of I don't thing we had was black
on black. So I wasn't trying to hear none of that.
And two it became real and I'm from over here.
Them do some over there and them dudes got into
the into them dudes and they just tripping on anybody's black.
Oh hell, no, I need anybody around me this black.

(32:19):
You know what I'm saying, ship man man, the dude
that you know that there used to be a smoker
in the hood. He doesn't got his size back. He'd
be in the system. Need him over here. They get
behind me. I know he's gonna fight, you know what
I'm saying. One, they're gonna tell you, man that some
dudes and they use drugs, but they didn't took all
different types of beatings, got drugs on credit, ain't paid,
nobody didn't got hit with crow bars and everything. It
smokes something. Be good, man, I need him. He ain't

(32:40):
going down. You're way from right now, that later right now.
And they didn't know black is under attacked. So that
system hit me kind of like you know, understand that.
And I had a partner inside there because I used
to get on him like when I first good inside
there because he's you know, he cut here his hustle,
he's cutting on these dudes here that you know what
I'm saying, that was directly opposed us. And I'm like, man,

(33:00):
you're doing like bro, like you know what I mean.
But he he said something to me that was great.
He said, rock with You're gonna realize is that it's
not what you are, it's who you are, you know
what I'm saying. And when he said that, like I
still remember this is today because it was individuals that
I thought because of what they was, which was the
same affiliation and color line they was hommies. And realized

(33:23):
that these were some of the individuals that was your
you know, your your biggest despisers, you know what I'm saying.
They was worse than enemies, and some of the individuals
I thought was enemies, like man, these are your bigger supporters,
Like you know what I'm saying. Informed some of the
best relationships would so I wouldn't have never had came
to that conclusion or had that experience. If an individual
would not have went through that system, you get what

(33:45):
I'm saying. So I would have got the therapy, I
would have got all that, but I wasn't. Also still
had the envy and hating on some things. Like I said,
you just can't change like when you when you when
you got them indelible marks like sansing like I don't
meet and stuff like that. So folks kind of like,
you know, you've editarian coming over. I ain't been doing
this ship and I was the fourteen. I don't be
telling people like this had been forced, you know what
I'm saying. My favorite stuff used to be like you know,

(34:06):
chitty cheese frods for strom me and all that. I
got out the hospital and was seating that stuff, and
I was noticing like every time I did that, my
stomach would ball all up on me. I couldn't stand up,
Like what the hell is going on? Like you know,
we had to go back to the hospital to mom
like sudden wrong. And that's when they told us like
what they did, and it's like, hey, you can't. You
can't eat that type of stuff anymore, you know what
I'm saying, Because of you know the intestines I was

(34:26):
taking out, so it's it's hard on your digesticism. So
I started eating all this healthy stuff, just vegetables and
silence and all those are crazy stuff, just because it
made me feel better, you know what I'm saying. It
was times when we ran into some dudes and ship
before they went to before we went to fight, I
was already bawled up. I was like, oh no, this
kn't be. It was because the ship that I ate,
you know what I'm saying, something like now it's like

(34:47):
you know, so I grab it. So I was a
certain things I said. This was force, you know what
I mean. So this is forcing to a certain type
of diet. But also that system forced the individual into
an understanding, you know what I'm saying, to where it
was like all right, that kind of like ratified my
thinking and put me somewhere else. Could the resources had
did that? I'm gonna say, giving the resources, and after

(35:09):
I get the resources, I still got to walk through
the streets of l A. We got a problem. I'm
gonna say, well, we got a problem because the homie
told me I was over there preaching them dudes one
day and HOMEI was like, hey man, this stuff is good,
but maybe we need to do this in the house
because somebody dropped by right now. Think but hey, they
go Rock, you know what I'm saying talking to them
dudes and telling them, trying to preach the good word
to them. I don't think they're gonna see as us.

(35:29):
They said, Rock, what you gotta understands that you have changed,
but the streets ain't changed. Bro. So giving me those
you know, the therapy and all that, and then being
injected back into the environment where I'm like, you know,
I get it with them dudes across the tracks still
don't get it. You know what I'm saying, that's what
you're fighting against. So inside that system, you know, a
lot of that was put back because like everybody tried

(35:52):
to do one thing and that survoved. Don't get it twisted.
There were some times when they had some black own
black count issues and that's what it was. You him
that business and back the program. But you learn how
to have appreciation for like you know what I'm saying
the other man. You know what I'm saying, like you
canna respect the soldier, and I couldn't do the from
that point, like except the fact that this this, this
is something bigger than what I thought it was because
I had hommies. They ran out. You know what I'm saying,

(36:14):
the tough guy, where are you going? You know what
I'm saying. They're coming and going that way, and these
dudes come from nowhere, like what's happening? You know what
I'm saying, and get down. City ain't going nowhere, And
it's like, damn, you know what I'm saying. You know,
they opposed you know, alphabets you represent, they got on
their body crossed out, but they're coming right now and
through their life in front of yours. You wouldn't have

(36:36):
got that do no therapy, no, no, no regular resources.
Not intervention is folks and people who we talked to,
Yes we would have had a conversation and that would
have been good, but they experience it to see it
real communicate something altogether different. So that's what I say,
kind of like about the system. It's not to speak
good about the system because the system and reabilit take nobody.

(36:56):
It's not doing none of that. It's the people that
is inside the system. You know what I'm saying it,
you know. Anzra Maham used to say that. You know,
the prison is a hidden university. You know, you had
dudes like Malcolm Max that went to prison. You know
what I'm saying. It was unfortunate, but they got smarting,
got wise, you know what I mean. So going inside here,
you know, I'm just gonna have to say it like this,
Like I had to go amongst man to become a man.
You know what I'm saying that I was in amongst

(37:17):
game members, on the streets of being an outright game
member and just thinking that orientation. But when you inside
dear your orientation and thought it changes. It's different. You
know what I'm seeing you more now a thinker, you
know what I'm saying. A problem solver. You know, you're
trying to resolve you know, because when you go bad,
it go bad. That's the absolute last thing you want

(37:38):
to do in society. You're not taught to the absolute
last thing you want to do. What you better get
off where you're getting mad at you know what I'm saying.
It's fast, it's you know what I'm saying, it's go right,
go right at it. You know. Um, So again it's
nothing like you know, to promote that system and like that.
But but but I needed that. You know what I'm saying,
I'm gonna go back to that also. You know, like
when I got jail ship, man, I'm not gonna live

(37:58):
in the first life fore far I was rested. I
was like, man, I was tired of running them streets
to the acting wild. They couldn't wake me up for nothing.
I ain't on the food or nothing. I was just
like man and coma, like damn, until they started telling
me how much time I was getting. Then I was like, damn,
what I'm saying, I got dea what like this can't
be real? But you know, um, so that's kind of

(38:19):
like you know the story behind you know, with rock
and I see a lot of these kids out here,
and you know they turned up and they don't care. Hey,
I didn't seen some dudes up inside there who thought
the same way. You know what I'm saying, You get
a hundred years, two hundred years plus like sentence, you
said the thing differently, you got something the man up
in there just crying like babies in the rooms at night.

(38:39):
You know what I'm saying. Dudes up in there were
like you know, in determined sentences. You know that's losing everybody.
You know, their mom's passing them, their grandmothers, their fathers
passing on them, and some of them the left the
streets and ain't really left nothing behind but that legacy
that they had and they child and picked it up.
Now they're inside there and they don't heard that their
kid think got killed. You know what I'm saying, that

(39:01):
should become vicious. So you know, it sounds good, you
know what I'm saying, These little you know, the cliche
stuff that we say. You know what I'm saying, like
you know, into the you know, into the wheels fall
off and all that, all that stuff sounds good. Then
you have a real experience, then things change, right, you know.
So you know, I I'm straight across the board and
I ain't heard been nothing but gp you know, as

(39:22):
it was stuff or nothing. Because if I didn't come
in there like that, that's not I'm like going. I mean,
I just saint build like that is keeping you know
what I'm saying, nothing against anybody else, but I know
how to navigate around where I'm not gonna be in
no situation like that. After having the experience like that,
it's like rock there gotta be a better way you know.
So they say insanity is when somebody doing the same
thing over and over but expect different results. Right. So

(39:44):
the honorable lodger Muhammed, So I was able to read stuff, right,
I gotta ground some good brothers. I swear idea, you
know what I'm saying that kind of like you know,
they pushed like some like I read this, you know
what I'm saying, and and reading it. It's about kind
of like coming up with an understanding, right, And that's
how I did it call literature right when the Bible
will say like I'm getting knowledge to get wisdom, but no,
you're getting get you understanding. So then Mohammed said, men

(40:06):
that a wise man learn from the mistakes to others
and the food learned from his own. So what I
was able to do, I'm not stepped inside that system,
but I had a lot of O G s and
stuff like that. You know what I'm saying. Everybody know.
That was seventeen and first and they started talking to
me about juvenile hall, you know when they was in
juvenile hall. Right, And I'm looking at the individual in
front of me that's forty fifty years old, so I'm

(40:26):
thirty five et cetera. And you know, I started to
study the person, you know, seeing what they was doing
kind of like every day, and I see what the
common thread was and the thing was, and I was like,
damn rock, if I do exactly what that individual dealing
at forty thirty five, I want to be in here
telling somebody that's like seventeen eighteen. Remember when you know
what I'm saying, your age coming through the system. I
didn't want that. So what I had to do was

(40:48):
do something kind of like uniquely different from what they
were doing in order to get different results. I started
asking individuals questions that they had a g D. No,
I can't get my g D ship and I'll be
hustling out there. Okay, I had to get my g D.
You gotta trade. I'm a mom supporter, Okay. I don't
want to be a reporter. So I didn't want to

(41:10):
do the stuff that I've seen people kme of like doing. Again,
this is homies. They were just doing what they know
to do. But what I didn't want was this reality
for me at a certain type of age. Because I
have faith and I know for a fact that I'm
not gonna be here like that. You know, this is
a temporary house, this is temporary stay. What do you
do in regards to prepare yourself to go back out
there into the real world. Because you go back out

(41:32):
there into the real world, you're not in competition with
these dudes on the yard with you. You're in competition
with folks that is law by and citizens. You're in
competition with folks. We ain't never been to the system, right,
someone never lived like you, and you're trying to be
in the same spaces and places they are and trying
to compete. So in order for you to be able
to compete, guess what you gotta do. You gotta put
yourself like ten paces ahead because you already have a

(41:55):
stumbling block. That stumbling block is your past, right, So
now you need that extra level of education, right, you
need that extra level of knowledge and understanding, right, And
that's what I kind of like, you know, went after
you know what I'm saying. Then you know, I was
never a type of person in the streets, etcetera, the
like to you know, get high, drinking all this other
just having been me, right, But I had a luss

(42:16):
always for like you know, education, knowledge, mathematics, so you know,
what I'm saying. So I like the three stuff, study
stuff like that. So at the end of the day,
that stuff works on you. You know what I'm saying,
It really does. You start to put stuff inside your body,
in your mind before you know it. It's like to
really talk to chisel and so to work on your mind.
It works, it works in your heart, etcetera. And you

(42:37):
know in sociology, right, they show you how like the
mind is like water. It's really receptive. And you can
also catch this and you can find this in Meto
Netta too, right, Met too, Netta to met To speak
on this and it's like whatever, you take some cherry
kool aid and put it inside that water, that water
instantly turns red. Right, it takes on that coloration, all right,
but these limit kool aid, you know, Grabe kool aid, etcetera.

(42:59):
It's gonna take on that color. So what happens, he
is that's how the morning is. You know what I'm saying.
He puts something inside through the mind takes on that coloration.
And what they go on social sociology, they called it socializing.
So I started thinking back, you know what I'm saying.
You started banging and stuff like that. I guess what
dude is doing. All the time. They were socializing. You
you gotta dress like this, and where your pants like that?

(43:21):
Now you wear your hat like this. Oh, this was
a socializing you know what I'm saying. And I'm letting
them put this ship mama, you know I'm saying, and
call me this nickname. Next thing, I'm out here acting
like somebody who I ain't. But it became the socializing
and I wind up embracing that coloration of thought and ideal.
We're gonna take a short break to hear from our sponsors.

(43:57):
So with that, you know what I'm seeing. You know
the math MATICX you know, honey, definitely teaching on five percenters, etceter.
So when I say this stuff, I'm not endorsing no
religion or anything like that. On my spiritual person. I
endorsed truth, right. They got something it's called building destroy.
So a lot of the stuff that I was thinking,
a lot of stuff that I was under the belief of,
I had to destroy a lot of that. You know
what I'm saying. I started to get rid of some

(44:18):
of these files. You know what I'm saying that the
delete delete, no more contact here, what I'm saying, I
had to really do that. You know what I'm seeing
some of the stuff I like to go back and
unlike that, you know what I'm saying, and just like
you know, just keeping it just like one hunting, you know.
And Jesus Man made a similar statement inside the Bible says,
if you put new wine and old bottles the bottles

(44:40):
of births. You see what I'm saying, it's just letting
you know, kind of like Ay, So I had to
start open with a new foundation. Now I still got
homies and stuff like that, but I realized, you know
what I'm saying, how I had to keep those homies,
had to deal with those homies. This became the new rock.
You know what I'm saying. That was the rock yesterday
and then this is the rock today. So rock is
um actually acronym. Now. You know a lot of times

(45:02):
we come from places and spaces and we have names
and the names just like they're meaningless. So it's like
when we was brung over here, you know, we had
meaningful names. You had dudes, that was you know, like
some names we have not people Malik keen know, we
call people certain things, and we had those names for
a reason, and it was something about our spirit. They
met our folks when they call us like that. So
the first thing you know, they did over here was

(45:23):
the first four um, you know, disorientating the person is
kind of like, you know, taking their name away. So
that's the first thing did with strip you your name.
And then they gave you a name, and they gave
you a name that was meaningless. So you give a
person's a meaningless name, guess what, So be meaningless people,
but do meaningless things. And I was like, all right,
so you know, um, you know, so rock now is

(45:43):
is an acronym I'm stand for a righteous orientator communicating knowledge. Right,
So when I'm hearing kind of like rocking or rocket
stun the solid you know what I'm saying, it's me
standing on principles, me having convations, me being salad, and
me doing kind of like what I'm going right now,
communicating knowledge right, be in that orator of truth, you
know what I'm saying, and speaking setting into the minds

(46:05):
of people that you know it may have an impact.
And individual told me you wanna tell me, said that
you never know what you might say to a person
that can change their life. And a lot of times
like you know, we don't see it right in front
of us because we're planning seeds, but it takes time
for those seeds to grow, you know, you know you
see it, dude four years down a large like he

(46:25):
got it, you know what I mean. So that's where
we kind of like at now, right in the socializing
and kind of like you know what I'm saying, bel
in destroy So you know, my experiences and what I
was able to do was learned from the environment around me,
and it was it's one of my boys. Now I
gotta list this guy in the anzera, Mohammed. He was like, man,
he said, when you when you sit in the classroom

(46:47):
and you got a gang of you know, up peers around,
You're like, what do they call? You know, what does
the teachers call audien? You know what I'm saying this
Like they call them pupils, right, And he said, you
know you got the pupils in the class, but then
you gotta teach you. He said, so right there in
your eyes you have you have a pupil. He says,
So when you look out to the world, the world
is your teacher, bro. So everything that is going on

(47:09):
around you was designed to teach you right, and you
can learn from a fool. You can learn like how
not to be, you know what I mean. So never
take kind of like you know, you know, any type
of experience in any situation, kind of like for granted.
So when he told me that, if you ever see me,
I'm studious. Now I'll be out there looking around people
like you hyper visionally. No, I'm just trying to see
how that works. You know what I'm saying. Because I
remember my niece one time. I told me, right, kids

(47:30):
just like ask me questions. So I answer the questions
like a couple of answers. Then my niece was like, hey,
how you feel up? She's like, um, why is the
sky blue? I'm like, stop, I asked me questions. But
this is a four year old kid, and I think
of myself, Hell, I don't know what this sky blue?
What else is blue? You know what I'm saying. From now,
I'd be trying to understand stuff, right, because when you understand,

(47:53):
you can have more of an impact, right, and you
can be more effective in your communication or what it
is that you're doing. So even through my experiences, I
try to understand, you know, um would happen. So then
when I'm speaking to somebody else, I could be able
to communicate the understanding. A lot of times we just
pushed the knowledge off on people and the knowledge is
not good enough. You know what I'm saying. You can
tell the person here, man, don't don't do wrong and

(48:14):
do right? All right? Why you know what I'm saying.
It's like a lot of times we don't know how
to explain that that. Why right? You know, all my
experience has been to the point where like now I
understand and looking back, it's like all right. In order
for me to be where I'm at right now, like
I had to go through those things, whether I chose
those things, that didn't choose those things, or if I say, hey,
I wouldn't do it again. It's like the mathematics that

(48:36):
I said earlier. You exclude anyone those elements or experiences
from my life, you wouldn't have a rocket you have.
Now you know what I'm saying, And I think that's
what everybody in the room. So I'm gonna go ahead
and step back a little bit. Now I speaking a lot,
but this becomes a deep subject. It's like you know
where you have to be feral right in detail, because

(48:57):
a lot of times we make points and then we
miss points, like you know what I'm saying. So, like
you know, mathematics always their steps in mathematics, and sometimes
we don't want to go through the steps. We don't
want to go through the process. We're just gonna go
from you know, the problem to the solution, but we
don't want to deal with the equation in between. Right.
So what I usually do is kind of like you know,

(49:18):
take people through the process to give it to you
how I understand it. Because if I understand it, I
believe that you know, you can understand it. And you know,
one of the things that I love Donaldags Vahama Cities,
that man, you said, make the truth so simple and
plain to where a baby can understand it, you know
what I'm saying. And it has to be to that point. Now.
A lot of times, when we think that we're intelligent
and we got you know, uh, so many alphabets behind

(49:39):
our name, or we got so many years in school
posts high school, you know, we start to speak like
real collegiately, right, And what happened is the people that
we're trying to impact the most, they missed the message
because we get caught up being I'm smart, right, But
when you're smart and your results is leading to a
negative end, then not so smart. Right. So we got

(50:02):
to figure out, now how do we become effective at
the end of the day, because this was about how
you had an impact, right, and my things about impact. Right,
Let's talk about some of that impact. I know that
you have, um been at the helm of many policies
that have to do with some of the experiences that

(50:23):
you have had being incarcerated and being a survivor of crime.
Can you tell us about some of the policies that
you have impacted and how they have impacted society? Definitely, Um,
several policies that you know, let's you know, justice just
there's a lot of reformers going on right now, right,

(50:44):
justice reform and some of the reform and policies that
I've been a part of, like you know, helping individuals
who were you know, who was maybe you know try
as adult and they was you know, there was under
twenty five, right, and then using kind of like the
modern science to show that you know, a person brain
is still developing until they don't reached their mid twenties, right,
and that is allowed folks kind of like who had

(51:05):
you know, life sentences, long extended sentences to kind of
like put themselves in a position to be able to
do so much time provided that they showed their rehabilitate
theirselfs they have access to you know, going to you know,
the board or even getting some of their time modified,
you know, well beyond the time they were supposed to
get out to where they're actually coming home early, right,

(51:26):
because they understand it that you know, there's a lot
of developmental stuff that was still going on. And that's
then in thirteen o eight actually you know stem from
SB to sixty and s B one also um been
a part of you know, justice reform where we stopped
juvenoles who's fourteen and fifteen from getting tried as adults,
right because again using the modern science, is able to

(51:48):
show that you know, individually fifteen and fourteen years old,
they act more like the twelve and thirteen year old
counterparts then you know the ones who are sixteen and seventeen.
So we stopped that from happening. But you know, we're
dealing with this stuff. It's like you know, you do
the work and then like sometime it's like man, damn
and that right, there is a touch you one, you know,
the fourteen and fifteen year old, right, because we did

(52:10):
that for individuals who had experienced it and that was
currently experiencing, right, I meaning they got tried as adult
at fifteen, had a life senses. So what they did
was they made us modify our bill to the where
it wasn't retroactive, right, it was just from that time
for it. So the individuals who was in the system yesterday,
who got tried at fifteen as adult, our fourteen as

(52:33):
a DELT and got a license, it didn't impact them.
And the reason why we was on the front line
doing that, it's for you know, individuals that was affected
like me, even though I passed through the system, for
those that was still in and it was sad where
it was like they had hope and then when the
law passed, it didn't affect them. It affected the kid
that's coming in. You know what I'm saying tomorrow, what
we got it done. You know what I'm saying, We

(52:53):
made some progress on that. And then there's several other
bills that you know we've been a part of passing,
you know, s b two desert vacation with law enforcement,
you know, misconduct and stuff like that. Whole folks accountable. Um,
so it's a lot of those policies it's just been
on the table and um, you know, even with that,
you know, sometimes people agree and then people like you know,
don't agree. I'm I'm on with one thing and one

(53:16):
thing exclusively, and that's kind of like preventing individuals from
having these experiences, right, So I gotta I gotta say
this because I think you know, you know, fair concepts.
And I was like just super powerful and he was like, man,
he said, you know, you got you know, everybody in
the churches, everybody in the synagogues, everybody in the moss,
everybody is arguing over which way it's the best way

(53:36):
to heaven and why they're doing that. The whole community
is going to hell. So a lot of times I
haven't been in these meetings, even with you know, nonprofits
and community leaders, and we are arguing over, you know,
which way is the right way. And we got kids
to the left into the right on the streets that's
getting killed and we can't get it right inside this room.

(53:59):
And we want supposed to have a solution So I'm
solution orientated, right, not answers. You know, when when I
was going to school, I give a lot of answers
to my mathematic problems. That ship came back with red checks.
What I'm saying I realized because of the answer don't
mean this a solution. So my thing is now is
plugging a solution that's resolved. So you know, my thing

(54:20):
is not confrontation, and let's get answers. UM. Continue to
do justice reform, continue to find out not just about
how do we help the individual inside, which is monumental,
but how do we prevent the individuals how we hear
from going inside here? UM, I don't think that you
should be uh gotta get touched by lighting and realize
that she hurt. It was like, let's like, you know,

(54:41):
let's let's stop that before. So yeah, that's that's been
the policy stuff. And I'm still advocating UM policy also
working with times done. Time's done. I'm UM Southern South
l A or Southern UM Chapter Coordinator UM in California,
And you know what we're doing is helping folks get
their life back. UM. There's over like you know, four thousand,

(55:02):
eight hundred barriers for a person who has a past
conviction where I'm some about you can't get you your
barber's license, where you know, you can't coach your son's
little league football team or or baseball team. You know,
you can't be you know, part of the homeowners Association.
Like it's a lot of those things that set folks
back who they had, like pass invictions. We're talking about

(55:24):
convictions that could have been twenty years old. And because
they have that conviction, we have all these barriers in
place that they didn't serve their time, right, and it's
like it's not allowing folks to go forward. I mean
they're even being blocked out from certain like economic opportunities.
You know what I'm seeing, which is upper level jobs
right that really like translate to gain for employment, um.

(55:45):
And it's all because of yesterday. So we're working on
you know, getting folks you know resources. You know, what
I'm saying is restoring their life like completely, and we're
you know, we're in powering leaders, you know, people who
didn't been through like you know some like the things
that you know I've been talking about, and then you know,
how are you you you empower those folks and they
become a resource and the asset. You know, they help

(56:06):
our you know, our community is better. So one of
the bills that we're working on that is um UH
SB seven one and SB seven thirty one. It's like,
you know, after folks and serve their time, they're off
parole and probation, you know that their records should be expunge, right,
giving them now the opportunity to really move forward in life.

(56:26):
You know what I'm saying that we're talking about, like
this leads to so much just this is helping families,
especially when you have somebody who's like the head of household,
you know what I'm seeing, and and when he's in
a position to where you know, he reached an economic
ceiling and that economic ceiling is below the property line,
you know whether that does not just to him, but
to the family. Right. So now we're trying to you know,

(56:47):
prevent that. You have so many folks that has you know,
it's been impacted by the system. They're coming out into
society and these folks is find themselves you know, houseless,
are homeless, right, and it's because a lot of times
they can't get no opportunities because of you know what
they was or what they did yesterday. So at times
done is exactly that you know, time done right and

(57:09):
we just you know, doing justice reforms, working with survivors
and no perpetrators, former perpetrators who realize also that you know,
they were survivors as well, and you know it's something
that may have led them to, you know, being a perpetrator.
And you know a lot of folks say, you know,
hurt people, hurt people. So now we're also using you

(57:30):
know what I'm saying, hurt folks to heal theirselves so
they can start to heal people as we are at
the end of the day. And you know, we all people.
And I think that, um, that speaks very intelligently to
this idea of ending the cycle of violence, because what
you just talked about is a cycle when you are

(57:50):
a survivor of crime, Unfortunately, that can put you up
into a whirlwind where you were on a fast track
to becoming them a perpetrator of crime, especially in the
environments that we grew up in. Because one, our lives
are over criminalized. You know, um, the things, the activities

(58:13):
that we get ourselves involved in a lot of the times,
they will be criminal in our community. And they might
not be criminal in other communities or at least you
will see definitely a difference in how we are punished
and how justice is delivered for us. So when we

(58:34):
have those kinds of things, when we have this cycle
of violence, um, the cycle of hurt, we have to
find ways where we can get off, you know, before
the psycho completes um, so before you are perpetrating harm
on somebody else, or even before you're perpetrating harm on yourself.

(58:56):
You know, the ideal would be that is prevented and
circumvented and that you find a way to hell first.
So thank you so much for sharing like that was
super powerful, per usual. How do people find you? Man

(59:17):
South intr L a deal man? See, I mean I
have a email, you know, so I put my email
out there. My email is on Philip Leicester dot t
RP gmail, um dot com. Other than that, I have
a shop over there and Watts along with some other

(59:39):
Folks's called the Ambassador Shop of Watts. So you can
check me out, um near on my Instagram doing a
lot of body art. Um. It's on the Creative Underscore inc.
Underscore two one four and that's how you can link
up with me and also at the shop, the Ambassador
Shop of Watts just going to Ambassador Shop of Wats

(59:59):
dot com all that right there. So I'm agatin. That's
me and my folks. I'm doing that work over there
and Watson, you know, putting businesses up, letting young folks
see what it's like and having people from the community.
That's you know what I'm saying. That's that's that's related
to us. That's you know, that's been around and folks
have to see like, this is what we're doing. This
is what it's about, really having a stake in the

(01:00:20):
community and doing something like uniquely different. And as we
talked about the entrepreneurship program that we are about the
launch is to have ownership. All right, We're gonna were
gonna turn folks into owners, right, owners of their own destiny,
you know, owners of their own economical growth, you know,

(01:00:40):
owners of their own culture. That's that's that's the biggest thing.
Listen to me, people, the biggest thing. You know you've
got you know a lot of this stuff is based
on yourvan culture. And we have folks that come in,
they learn the culture, patch it up, put in the box,
and then sell it back to us. So it's like

(01:01:03):
a when it comes to like, you know, black cosumerism,
we're talking about, you know, annually a big in dollars.
Plus I'm not saying we shouldn't consume, and we will,
we live life, but we should also be like you know, manufacturers,
distributors and the producers, especially when it's about us. Mm hmm.

(01:01:23):
Thanks so much for that. That's right. As we come
to a close for part one, I just want to
leave you all with a couple of thoughts. There's quite
a lot of reform that must be done in order
to end the carnage on black lives in particular and
in general, to put a spoken the will of the

(01:01:43):
cycles of violence that frequently leave young black and brown
men dead or imprisoned. In America. Black and brown males
continue to be the most harmed and least help populations
among survivors of crime. To be clear, this has not
been a pro incarceration nation conversation. It has been an

(01:02:05):
acknowledgement of the fact that the lack of services for
a child that witnessed his uncle shot to death and
then endured his own attempted murder twice only served in
fueling the cycle of violence that eventually landed him an
adult sentence as a youth. When prison is unavoidable, we

(01:02:26):
need a prison a healing pipeline. Healing would mean investing
in and creating a prisoner school pipeline, investing in a
prison to careers pipeline, and investing in a prisoner skills pipeline.
Around here, we say art not prisons. Eventually, our nation

(01:02:46):
may have the goal to eradicate the prison industrial complex
completely and replace it with institutions that truly rehabilitate, transform,
and heal. All who are willing okay until then, please
support efforts like Time Done that seek to reduce the
recurrence of recidivism by removing livelihood barriers and equipping folks

(01:03:12):
with the healing resources they should have received before they're
hurt hurt. Another disclaimer, My views, beliefs, and opinions are
my own and do not necessarily reflect the views of
my guests, resource organizations, or sources shared. Last thing, every

(01:03:41):
day we survive is a new chance to see killing
piece to your journey. Good people, a sha

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Host

Oya L. Sherrills

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode Four: I'm Survivin' The Bullets Pt. 1