December 23, 2022 • 25 mins
This week we are releasing a mini-episode as we prepare for the holiday break. Join Oya and her mother as they have an honest, candid conversation on women's bodies. We'll be back with a full episode on January 6th!
About Oya:
Oya L Sherrills is a survivor, a lived experience leader in her field, an advocate, and an organizer. Author of "Musings of a Rascal", she works to create a culture where healing practices are centered and valued. Oya likes to pave paths that connect past and future ancestors in efforts to prioritize peace and community-driven solutions that break cycles of violence and address trauma. She's creative, she's a mama, and she's for the trees.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Content warning. This episode will discuss a lot of heavy
topics such as sexual salt in abortion. Please be kind
to yourself, prepare yourself with before and or after care,
and remember if you are a loved one is going
through it, you can call the National Sexual Thought Hotline
(00:23):
six five six hope that's when A hundred six five
six four six seven three. Or if you'd like to
learn more about the issues, consider visiting www dot black
r J dot org, which is the website for in
Our Voice, the National Black Woman's Reproductive Justiceigion to explore
(00:58):
the stories, poses, practices, and idea and so to do
with Surviva's bood. This is with your oh yeah, greetings,
good people. This isn't any episode that we will call
(01:19):
I'm surviving Mother and Child and it needs some contexts,
lots of context in fact. So to start this conversation
is at a point where my mom joined me in
a reflection of episode one, which if you've been listening
in that was my guide to surviving rape culture. Today's conversation.
(01:46):
Let's start off that it's the perfect time of the
year for this conversation. Do you know why, because when
I was a young child, I was told that the
Virgin Mary had a baby boy, and that baby was
not her husband's child. She was visited by an angel
who foretold of her pregnancy. She was poor, yet she
(02:10):
had a support system. Little did she know the governing
rulers were out to kill her child. In any case,
Mary made a choice, a choice. After the angel came
and said what what happened? Mary said, I am the
servant of the Lord. Let this happen to me as
(02:31):
you say. Then the angel went away. She made a choice. Though,
so tis the season that this story of divine birth
is celebrated alongside other pagan cultural and religious ceremonies marking
our winter solstice. In any case, this story that we
(02:52):
all have heard repeated each year in our Silent Night
Hymn and the like, is just one of the contexts
that my mother and I are reflecting on her role
in my circle of support at a very dark time
in my life. But that's not the only context. In fact,
I'm sure my family is not the only one to
(03:13):
have these kinds of conversations during the holidays. When families
get together and they start reminiscent, things can get deep,
and if you want to be prepared for some of
these soul searching, depth reaching conversations specifically on black woman's
reproductive justice. To be clear, then I deeply encourage you
(03:37):
to read the foundational text by Dorothy Roberts called Killing
the Black Body, because if you do read this, you
will be armed with facts like since the black woman's
time in bondage in this nation, we have defied the
slave master's control of our bomb. We abstained, we use contraceptives,
(03:59):
and at so much that Southern medical journals in the
eighteen hundreds reported that black female slaves possessed a secret
ability to end their pregnancy early, despite the rape, despite
the sexual assault, despite the general assaults, the kidnapping, the
(04:19):
selling of our children, the literal chains and physical labor,
black female bodies endured. We found ways to resist control
of our bombs, at least techniques that we brought from Africa.
Herbal remedies that slave women used for abortion, like the
(04:40):
infusion of tansy rue roots and seed of cotton plant,
penny royal, cedar, gum and camphor either in gum or spirits.
These tactics supported enslaved women in their efforts to have
choice over their bodies, even in bondage. This is one
(05:03):
context that my mother and I have this conversation. Another
context that Roberts raises is the idea of procreative liberty.
It's widely known that the eugenics movement targeted black mothers
as unfit out of it sterilization programs of roads that
(05:25):
included abortion as a means of enforcing the elimination of
procreative liberty for black families. These programs stopped in large
part because of a court case. Ralf First Weinberger were
another virgin Mary, her sister and her mother impacted the
(05:45):
political and cultural context you see. Mary Alice and many
Ralf poor African American sisters from Alabama were sterilized at
the ages of fourteen and twelve. The mother, who was illiterate,
had signed an X on a piece of paper she
believed gave permission for her daughters, who were both mentally disabled,
(06:08):
to receive birth control shots. This happened in nineteen seventy four.
This case uncovered that around one hundred thousand to a
hundred and fifty thousand poor people, again overwhelmingly Black Americans,
were being sterilized annually under federally funded eugenics programs. But
(06:31):
it didn't in there. In a recent case, California prisons
authorized sterilizations of nearly a hundred and fifty female inmates
between two thousand and six, and most of whom are
Afro American and Latino. As a result of this, there
is available victim compensation for forced sterilization in California. Many
(06:57):
people who lived in state run hospitals, homes, and institutions
through nineteen seventy nine were sterilized, leaving them unable to
have biological children. Additionally, many people who were in custody
of a state prison or other correctional facilities after nineteen
seventy nine were forcibly or involuntarily sterilized. Now, the Forced
(07:21):
or Involuntary Sterilization Compensation Program financially compensate survivors of state
sponsored sterilization. The California Victim Compensation Board and ministers the program.
So if you happen to be listening to this and
you are a California survivor of forced sterilization, please visit
(07:43):
Victims dot c a dot gov to submit an application
for compensation, but they are only accepting applications between January
one through December three, so please reach out to an
or that supports victims and survivors to help with your
application if needed, or download and email the application online.
(08:08):
CALVCB offers a plethora of resources and compensation financial as
well as emotional support services. And so it's in this
context that my mother, my black mother, and her black
child have this conversation and reflecting about a moment that
(08:29):
I made a choice. It's also in the context that
currently black woman abort at almost four times the rate
of white woman. And for many hearing that, it's easy
to conclude a couple of things. One that black woman
don't care about black life. I've heard that said here
and there as if it was a truth. It's not true,
(08:53):
it's wrong, wrong, wrong, And the conditions that led our
enslaved ancestors to a boar their babies and bondage was
out of survival and for the love of their own
life and the love of their own liberty. So to
say that this statistic reflects how we feel about black life,
(09:17):
it ignores the community and social systems that both help
and hinder the determination of a black woman's reproductive health.
Another conclusion that people might come to, especially those who
are a little more nuanced in their thinking they may
hear the statistic and feel like it means that the
(09:40):
eugenics programming onslaught, that black mothers endured for generation, that
that programming worked. Another conclusion would be that black women
are exercising their freedom to choose, and they're having to
make hard choices in harder conditions more frequently than other people.
(10:04):
And this is evidenced, as Dorothy Roberts argued even back
in by the high infant and maternal mortality rates for
black mothers and black children. So you have to think,
would Mary have made the same choice to let it
be as the angel had said, if her conditions were different.
(10:28):
We don't know. We do know that Moses Mama, who
was enslaved and holy and honorable, she sent her baby
down the river, just saying. And for the last bit
of context, Dorothy Roberts says, this policies governing reproduction not
(10:49):
only affect an individual's personal identity, they also shape the
way we value each other and interpret social problems. And
it's with all this history, all these cultural archetypes, that
my mother and I have this conversation enjoy. All right,
(11:14):
So I have an incredible treat right now. I know
I have just went through some of the darkest moments
of my life. But I had a light in those
dark moments. I've spoken about a few of them, um,
(11:34):
but right here in front of me, broadcasting out to
the world, one of those lights is here, and that
light is my mom, of course, Mrs Alicia Cannon, And
I'm inviting her to just talk with me about the
(11:56):
importance of having a support system when you were going
through something so difficult, especially thinking about black motherhood, thinking
about being a black woman under rape culture. And I
just want to ask, Mom, want, how you doing fine,
(12:17):
baby girl, my sweetheart, I am doing great? Okay, good good,
And UM wanting to gently go into just the ideas
that I've been discussing and bringing us back to those
really hard moments. Um, when I was a teenager. I'm
(12:39):
fifteen years old. If finally gets revealed that I'm pregnant,
my brother had just been murdered about two months before,
and you were able to lift me up and support
me through that hard time, and I just want to ask, like,
what for you, m M, yeah, pretty deep stuff to
(13:05):
talk about. Um. One of the things that came up
for me was my own personal experience being a teenage
mother and then mirroring my own mother's teenage pregnancy experience.
And that was just something that I, um, you know,
I fought really, I thought I was fighting really hard
(13:27):
to prevent for both you and your sister. I did
not want to have that repeated again. I wanted to
be the person that you know, I would be the
last teenage mother, you know. So that was a lot
of the thought that I had, like I failed, you know,
(13:49):
and hold that thought. We'll be right back after a
word from our sponsors. So do you think that the
(14:15):
fact that we have been given these messages that one
getting pregnant as a teen, especially as a young black
teen or a team that is in a low income community,
that that automatically equals failure despite you know what You've
(14:35):
been able to accomplish what you know, g has been
able to accomplish, the fact that we have had a
culture that gives us this message that it's something to
be ashamed of to be a mother. Absolutely. Um, you know,
I love my uncle very darely. But one thing that
when when you know, when a family found out that
(14:58):
I was pregnant, one of the things that ranged in
my head was something that he said to me. You know,
he was like, you're not gonna be anything. You know, Um,
You're gonna be out here just like you know the
rest of these young girls that have kids. You're not
going to be successful in life. And you know, that
continued to ring in my head and but actually, you know,
(15:21):
it was the driving force to make me want to
do better with my life too. So it was kind
of a duality, you know, And and it still rings
in my head as you see him, you know, kind
of emotional about that. But I love my ancle, He's
one of my favorite anchos. But you know, I don't
think he understood the things that he said when I
(15:42):
when they found out I was pregnant, what that really
did to me. You know. So absolutely, yes, there is
um this thing that you know, it's it's a failure.
It's a bad thing if you're pregnant and you're not
married and you're you know, it's absolutely and then there's
another stigma that if you decide too then in the
(16:05):
pregnancy right And I felt like I definitely felt that
double edged sword because actually I'm getting a little bit
emotional too because I have an auntie that I love
very dearly and before any of those things transpired. I
remember her saying something very similar to me, but she
(16:26):
said in particular, oh, you're going to be just like
your mother, you know, which I don't think is a
bad thing. By the way, just to let be known, um, well,
she didn't know much about me, but in the darkest moment,
you know, when I was ready to give up my life,
(16:47):
you know, just at the prospect of bringing another life
into the world. I feel like that's a symptom of
rape culture too, though, because it's emblematic of the fact
that there's not the support for new life. There's not
the support for folks who would choose to continue with pregnancy,
(17:10):
but then for those of us who don't want to
continue the pregnancy. And I wonder, you know, like right
now we're at a moment in time where we're losing
that right. That right has been just like shut down
by the Supreme Court. And I think that it's very
critical that one, if this is a free country, if
(17:34):
we believe that our bodies are divine, that it should
be our divine right to then have those conversations with
our creator. If this is a country that has religious freedom,
all of those things, then we should be able to
have the right to make those decisions ourselves and without
(17:56):
the stigma, without the shame. But I'm curious, like if
you want to wait in there. Um, I believe I
had the conversation, and maybe your father have that. I've
had abortions, um at least two, and being on the
other side of my age, like I'm older now, sometimes
(18:21):
I do think about them, you know. I mean, it
wasn't in any sense of being raped. You know, I
was willing to lay down and you know, kind of
got caught up. But I knew, you know, after because
I had actually an abortion between you and your sister
and you know you were actually my thirsday and yes
(18:45):
and something, and I do know you probably didn't. I
don't talk much about it, you know, I do understand
your point, but you know, because I have gone through
a transformation shan in my quest of the divine feminine,
I just I feel different than I did when I
(19:06):
was younger, and you know, I believe that, Yes, it
is important to have support because you're gonna need it,
especially depending on you know, your situation in life and
where you know, if you find yourself with child, and
depends on where you are with that um. You know,
whether if it was rape or if you just you know,
(19:28):
you don't have anywhere to live, you're living with someone.
You know, it depends on your situation. You know. All
the reasons why women would you know, want to aboard.
I get it. But that's why it's important to you know,
just kind of have and seek out as much support
as you can. If you don't have it, you might
need to just seek it, you know. I think about
(19:49):
the people that can't have children. You know, that's always
a thought. Maybe you could, you know, put your child
up for adoption and let someone else love that child,
you know. So you know, that's just my thought now
that I'm older in life, because you know, I'm not
going to sit up here and act like I've never
(20:10):
had an abortion and not never you know, UM had
the notion of, you know, I can't take care of
this child, you know, so I have to abort it.
You know, because I've been there, so I kind of
understand both sides. But you know, right now, if you know,
you or your sister or any young woman that I
(20:31):
know in my life would be with child and they
wanted to go there, I would, you know, I would
definitely be against it. You know, I would be against
it at this point in my life. I want to
say that I appreciate that when I was fifteen and
I came to you, that you were open, that you
didn't push me one way or the other, that you
(20:54):
asked me what do I want to do? You know,
and that you were a part of my support system. Yeah.
Well by that time, you know, I was still young.
I was thirty two, you know, Um, but I was
at a point where I did understand. I mean, I
had a decent job, you know, I did understand that,
(21:17):
you know, we could work this out so you would
never be alone. You know, it would never be one
of those situations, you know. I mean, I guess you're
just blessed that way to have support in your life,
you know. So I just you know, I thank you
for reminding me of, you know, where I was, because
(21:40):
you know, again, my thought of it all was I
felt as a parent, you know, because that was the
one thing that I did not want you guys to experience,
was being a teenage mother, because it was tough. You know,
it was tough. You know, I know, you know the
story when I was in college, you know, when I
went to college. No knew I had kids because I
(22:01):
didn't tell that. They didn't ask, I didn't tell, you know,
and it wasn't like that I was embarrassed. But then again,
it was, you know, because no one else had kids,
not that I knew of, you know, so I kind
of wanted to be I wanted my college experience to
be just that, a college experience, so I didn't tell anybody. So,
(22:25):
you know, I just know that as a mother, I
wanted you guys to have a good childhood, you know,
unlike me, and not have the things that I had
to suffer through. I didn't want that for you guys.
Know that. Of course, it's all understandable, and I think that,
(22:46):
you know, that's what most parents want for their children.
And it's also why we have to destroy rape culture.
It's why it was go down. So thank you so
much for joining me in this very like hot fed discussion.
(23:09):
You know, well, I appreciate you for inviting me and
wanting to, you know, hear something from me and share,
you know, my feelings and thoughts on this topic. So
I appreciate that as well. Baby you so to close,
(23:34):
please do understand a couple of things denial a reproductive
justice and taking away a person's right to choose whether
to birth or to abort. That seizing of choice uphold
rial culture. We heal ourselves and our culture when we
release shame, when we release guilt, and we embrace compassion
(23:59):
and the truth of our divine identity. I end with
this quote from Dorothy Roberts. Relying on the concept of
self definition celebrates the legacy of Black women who have
survived and transcendent conditions of oppression. This affirmation of personhood
(24:21):
is especially suited for challenging the devaluation of black motherhood
underlying the regulation of black reproduction. So discover yourself and
define yourself. Joint Survivor's Hell on January six for a
(24:47):
fresh new episode for the brand new year. Disclaimer, My views, beliefs,
and opinions are my own and do not necessarily reflect
the views of my guest, resource organizations or sources shared
m last thing every day we survive is a new
(25:14):
chance to see killing piece to your journey. Good people.
Asham
Content warning. This episode will discuss a lot of heavy
topics such as sexual salt in abortion. Please be kind
to yourself, prepare yourself with before and or after care,
and remember if you are a loved one is going
through it, you can call the National Sexual Thought Hotline
(00:23):
six five six hope that's when A hundred six five
six four six seven three. Or if you'd like to
learn more about the issues, consider visiting www dot black
r J dot org, which is the website for in
Our Voice, the National Black Woman's Reproductive Justiceigion to explore
(00:58):
the stories, poses, practices, and idea and so to do
with Surviva's bood. This is with your oh yeah, greetings,
good people. This isn't any episode that we will call
(01:19):
I'm surviving Mother and Child and it needs some contexts,
lots of context in fact. So to start this conversation
is at a point where my mom joined me in
a reflection of episode one, which if you've been listening
in that was my guide to surviving rape culture. Today's conversation.
(01:46):
Let's start off that it's the perfect time of the
year for this conversation. Do you know why, because when
I was a young child, I was told that the
Virgin Mary had a baby boy, and that baby was
not her husband's child. She was visited by an angel
who foretold of her pregnancy. She was poor, yet she
(02:10):
had a support system. Little did she know the governing
rulers were out to kill her child. In any case,
Mary made a choice, a choice. After the angel came
and said what what happened? Mary said, I am the
servant of the Lord. Let this happen to me as
(02:31):
you say. Then the angel went away. She made a choice. Though,
so tis the season that this story of divine birth
is celebrated alongside other pagan cultural and religious ceremonies marking
our winter solstice. In any case, this story that we
(02:52):
all have heard repeated each year in our Silent Night
Hymn and the like, is just one of the contexts
that my mother and I are reflecting on her role
in my circle of support at a very dark time
in my life. But that's not the only context. In fact,
I'm sure my family is not the only one to
(03:13):
have these kinds of conversations during the holidays. When families
get together and they start reminiscent, things can get deep,
and if you want to be prepared for some of
these soul searching, depth reaching conversations specifically on black woman's
reproductive justice. To be clear, then I deeply encourage you
(03:37):
to read the foundational text by Dorothy Roberts called Killing
the Black Body, because if you do read this, you
will be armed with facts like since the black woman's
time in bondage in this nation, we have defied the
slave master's control of our bomb. We abstained, we use contraceptives,
(03:59):
and at so much that Southern medical journals in the
eighteen hundreds reported that black female slaves possessed a secret
ability to end their pregnancy early, despite the rape, despite
the sexual assault, despite the general assaults, the kidnapping, the
(04:19):
selling of our children, the literal chains and physical labor,
black female bodies endured. We found ways to resist control
of our bombs, at least techniques that we brought from Africa.
Herbal remedies that slave women used for abortion, like the
(04:40):
infusion of tansy rue roots and seed of cotton plant,
penny royal, cedar, gum and camphor either in gum or spirits.
These tactics supported enslaved women in their efforts to have
choice over their bodies, even in bondage. This is one
(05:03):
context that my mother and I have this conversation. Another
context that Roberts raises is the idea of procreative liberty.
It's widely known that the eugenics movement targeted black mothers
as unfit out of it sterilization programs of roads that
(05:25):
included abortion as a means of enforcing the elimination of
procreative liberty for black families. These programs stopped in large
part because of a court case. Ralf First Weinberger were
another virgin Mary, her sister and her mother impacted the
(05:45):
political and cultural context you see. Mary Alice and many
Ralf poor African American sisters from Alabama were sterilized at
the ages of fourteen and twelve. The mother, who was illiterate,
had signed an X on a piece of paper she
believed gave permission for her daughters, who were both mentally disabled,
(06:08):
to receive birth control shots. This happened in nineteen seventy four.
This case uncovered that around one hundred thousand to a
hundred and fifty thousand poor people, again overwhelmingly Black Americans,
were being sterilized annually under federally funded eugenics programs. But
(06:31):
it didn't in there. In a recent case, California prisons
authorized sterilizations of nearly a hundred and fifty female inmates
between two thousand and six, and most of whom are
Afro American and Latino. As a result of this, there
is available victim compensation for forced sterilization in California. Many
(06:57):
people who lived in state run hospitals, homes, and institutions
through nineteen seventy nine were sterilized, leaving them unable to
have biological children. Additionally, many people who were in custody
of a state prison or other correctional facilities after nineteen
seventy nine were forcibly or involuntarily sterilized. Now, the Forced
(07:21):
or Involuntary Sterilization Compensation Program financially compensate survivors of state
sponsored sterilization. The California Victim Compensation Board and ministers the program.
So if you happen to be listening to this and
you are a California survivor of forced sterilization, please visit
(07:43):
Victims dot c a dot gov to submit an application
for compensation, but they are only accepting applications between January
one through December three, so please reach out to an
or that supports victims and survivors to help with your
application if needed, or download and email the application online.
(08:08):
CALVCB offers a plethora of resources and compensation financial as
well as emotional support services. And so it's in this
context that my mother, my black mother, and her black
child have this conversation and reflecting about a moment that
(08:29):
I made a choice. It's also in the context that
currently black woman abort at almost four times the rate
of white woman. And for many hearing that, it's easy
to conclude a couple of things. One that black woman
don't care about black life. I've heard that said here
and there as if it was a truth. It's not true,
(08:53):
it's wrong, wrong, wrong, And the conditions that led our
enslaved ancestors to a boar their babies and bondage was
out of survival and for the love of their own
life and the love of their own liberty. So to
say that this statistic reflects how we feel about black life,
(09:17):
it ignores the community and social systems that both help
and hinder the determination of a black woman's reproductive health.
Another conclusion that people might come to, especially those who
are a little more nuanced in their thinking they may
hear the statistic and feel like it means that the
(09:40):
eugenics programming onslaught, that black mothers endured for generation, that
that programming worked. Another conclusion would be that black women
are exercising their freedom to choose, and they're having to
make hard choices in harder conditions more frequently than other people.
(10:04):
And this is evidenced, as Dorothy Roberts argued even back
in by the high infant and maternal mortality rates for
black mothers and black children. So you have to think,
would Mary have made the same choice to let it
be as the angel had said, if her conditions were different.
(10:28):
We don't know. We do know that Moses Mama, who
was enslaved and holy and honorable, she sent her baby
down the river, just saying. And for the last bit
of context, Dorothy Roberts says, this policies governing reproduction not
(10:49):
only affect an individual's personal identity, they also shape the
way we value each other and interpret social problems. And
it's with all this history, all these cultural archetypes, that
my mother and I have this conversation enjoy. All right,
(11:14):
So I have an incredible treat right now. I know
I have just went through some of the darkest moments
of my life. But I had a light in those
dark moments. I've spoken about a few of them, um,
(11:34):
but right here in front of me, broadcasting out to
the world, one of those lights is here, and that
light is my mom, of course, Mrs Alicia Cannon, And
I'm inviting her to just talk with me about the
(11:56):
importance of having a support system when you were going
through something so difficult, especially thinking about black motherhood, thinking
about being a black woman under rape culture. And I
just want to ask, Mom, want, how you doing fine,
(12:17):
baby girl, my sweetheart, I am doing great? Okay, good good,
And UM wanting to gently go into just the ideas
that I've been discussing and bringing us back to those
really hard moments. Um, when I was a teenager. I'm
(12:39):
fifteen years old. If finally gets revealed that I'm pregnant,
my brother had just been murdered about two months before,
and you were able to lift me up and support
me through that hard time, and I just want to ask, like,
what for you, m M, yeah, pretty deep stuff to
(13:05):
talk about. Um. One of the things that came up
for me was my own personal experience being a teenage
mother and then mirroring my own mother's teenage pregnancy experience.
And that was just something that I, um, you know,
I fought really, I thought I was fighting really hard
(13:27):
to prevent for both you and your sister. I did
not want to have that repeated again. I wanted to
be the person that you know, I would be the
last teenage mother, you know. So that was a lot
of the thought that I had, like I failed, you know,
(13:49):
and hold that thought. We'll be right back after a
word from our sponsors. So do you think that the
(14:15):
fact that we have been given these messages that one
getting pregnant as a teen, especially as a young black
teen or a team that is in a low income community,
that that automatically equals failure despite you know what You've
(14:35):
been able to accomplish what you know, g has been
able to accomplish, the fact that we have had a
culture that gives us this message that it's something to
be ashamed of to be a mother. Absolutely. Um, you know,
I love my uncle very darely. But one thing that
when when you know, when a family found out that
(14:58):
I was pregnant, one of the things that ranged in
my head was something that he said to me. You know,
he was like, you're not gonna be anything. You know, Um,
You're gonna be out here just like you know the
rest of these young girls that have kids. You're not
going to be successful in life. And you know, that
continued to ring in my head and but actually, you know,
(15:21):
it was the driving force to make me want to
do better with my life too. So it was kind
of a duality, you know, And and it still rings
in my head as you see him, you know, kind
of emotional about that. But I love my ancle, He's
one of my favorite anchos. But you know, I don't
think he understood the things that he said when I
(15:42):
when they found out I was pregnant, what that really
did to me. You know. So absolutely, yes, there is
um this thing that you know, it's it's a failure.
It's a bad thing if you're pregnant and you're not
married and you're you know, it's absolutely and then there's
another stigma that if you decide too then in the
(16:05):
pregnancy right And I felt like I definitely felt that
double edged sword because actually I'm getting a little bit
emotional too because I have an auntie that I love
very dearly and before any of those things transpired. I
remember her saying something very similar to me, but she
(16:26):
said in particular, oh, you're going to be just like
your mother, you know, which I don't think is a
bad thing. By the way, just to let be known, um, well,
she didn't know much about me, but in the darkest moment,
you know, when I was ready to give up my life,
(16:47):
you know, just at the prospect of bringing another life
into the world. I feel like that's a symptom of
rape culture too, though, because it's emblematic of the fact
that there's not the support for new life. There's not
the support for folks who would choose to continue with pregnancy,
(17:10):
but then for those of us who don't want to
continue the pregnancy. And I wonder, you know, like right
now we're at a moment in time where we're losing
that right. That right has been just like shut down
by the Supreme Court. And I think that it's very
critical that one, if this is a free country, if
(17:34):
we believe that our bodies are divine, that it should
be our divine right to then have those conversations with
our creator. If this is a country that has religious freedom,
all of those things, then we should be able to
have the right to make those decisions ourselves and without
(17:56):
the stigma, without the shame. But I'm curious, like if
you want to wait in there. Um, I believe I
had the conversation, and maybe your father have that. I've
had abortions, um at least two, and being on the
other side of my age, like I'm older now, sometimes
(18:21):
I do think about them, you know. I mean, it
wasn't in any sense of being raped. You know, I
was willing to lay down and you know, kind of
got caught up. But I knew, you know, after because
I had actually an abortion between you and your sister
and you know you were actually my thirsday and yes
(18:45):
and something, and I do know you probably didn't. I
don't talk much about it, you know, I do understand
your point, but you know, because I have gone through
a transformation shan in my quest of the divine feminine,
I just I feel different than I did when I
(19:06):
was younger, and you know, I believe that, Yes, it
is important to have support because you're gonna need it,
especially depending on you know, your situation in life and
where you know, if you find yourself with child, and
depends on where you are with that um. You know,
whether if it was rape or if you just you know,
(19:28):
you don't have anywhere to live, you're living with someone.
You know, it depends on your situation. You know. All
the reasons why women would you know, want to aboard.
I get it. But that's why it's important to you know,
just kind of have and seek out as much support
as you can. If you don't have it, you might
need to just seek it, you know. I think about
(19:49):
the people that can't have children. You know, that's always
a thought. Maybe you could, you know, put your child
up for adoption and let someone else love that child,
you know. So you know, that's just my thought now
that I'm older in life, because you know, I'm not
going to sit up here and act like I've never
(20:10):
had an abortion and not never you know, UM had
the notion of, you know, I can't take care of
this child, you know, so I have to abort it.
You know, because I've been there, so I kind of
understand both sides. But you know, right now, if you know,
you or your sister or any young woman that I
(20:31):
know in my life would be with child and they
wanted to go there, I would, you know, I would
definitely be against it. You know, I would be against
it at this point in my life. I want to
say that I appreciate that when I was fifteen and
I came to you, that you were open, that you
didn't push me one way or the other, that you
(20:54):
asked me what do I want to do? You know,
and that you were a part of my support system. Yeah.
Well by that time, you know, I was still young.
I was thirty two, you know, Um, but I was
at a point where I did understand. I mean, I
had a decent job, you know, I did understand that,
(21:17):
you know, we could work this out so you would
never be alone. You know, it would never be one
of those situations, you know. I mean, I guess you're
just blessed that way to have support in your life,
you know. So I just you know, I thank you
for reminding me of, you know, where I was, because
(21:40):
you know, again, my thought of it all was I
felt as a parent, you know, because that was the
one thing that I did not want you guys to experience,
was being a teenage mother, because it was tough. You know,
it was tough. You know, I know, you know the
story when I was in college, you know, when I
went to college. No knew I had kids because I
(22:01):
didn't tell that. They didn't ask, I didn't tell, you know,
and it wasn't like that I was embarrassed. But then again,
it was, you know, because no one else had kids,
not that I knew of, you know, so I kind
of wanted to be I wanted my college experience to
be just that, a college experience, so I didn't tell anybody. So,
(22:25):
you know, I just know that as a mother, I
wanted you guys to have a good childhood, you know,
unlike me, and not have the things that I had
to suffer through. I didn't want that for you guys.
Know that. Of course, it's all understandable, and I think that,
(22:46):
you know, that's what most parents want for their children.
And it's also why we have to destroy rape culture.
It's why it was go down. So thank you so
much for joining me in this very like hot fed discussion.
(23:09):
You know, well, I appreciate you for inviting me and
wanting to, you know, hear something from me and share,
you know, my feelings and thoughts on this topic. So
I appreciate that as well. Baby you so to close,
(23:34):
please do understand a couple of things denial a reproductive
justice and taking away a person's right to choose whether
to birth or to abort. That seizing of choice uphold
rial culture. We heal ourselves and our culture when we
release shame, when we release guilt, and we embrace compassion
(23:59):
and the truth of our divine identity. I end with
this quote from Dorothy Roberts. Relying on the concept of
self definition celebrates the legacy of Black women who have
survived and transcendent conditions of oppression. This affirmation of personhood
(24:21):
is especially suited for challenging the devaluation of black motherhood
underlying the regulation of black reproduction. So discover yourself and
define yourself. Joint Survivor's Hell on January six for a
(24:47):
fresh new episode for the brand new year. Disclaimer, My views, beliefs,
and opinions are my own and do not necessarily reflect
the views of my guest, resource organizations or sources shared
m last thing every day we survive is a new
(25:14):
chance to see killing piece to your journey. Good people.
Asham
Host
Oya L. Sherrills
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy And Charlamagne Tha God!
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.