December 29, 2022 • 51 mins
This one goes out to the SYSK Army as a special request. Let's do the time warp again!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's
Chuck and Jerry's here too, and it's a super awesome,
amazing last episode of the year episode. I can't think
of one that could have been better than this chalk.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
I guess people, it's a spoiler of what the show
is about already, because you've seen the title as a listener, right,
But this is courtesy of the Stuff you Should Know Army.
Came straight from them. We got emails that said, hey,
the Stuff you should Army is chattering about Rocky Horror
Picture show they have been shivering with and tsut patient.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Very nice.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
And so this is it Stuff you should Know Army.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Yeah. Oh and also in return, you guys, if you
haven't already, go donate to co ed because we're running
out of time. These the last few days of the
year's right, and our pledge drive or fun drive, I
don't know what you'd call it, Our awesome drive fun drive. Yeah,
the d is in parentheses. Ends on January first or
(01:24):
December thirty first at eleven fifty nine pm, who knows.
But you can go to Cooperative for education dot org
slash sysk donate and we're going to reach that million
dollar goal. I just know it.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
I totally agree, and I'm super excited for this episode.
Our year is winding down. Yeah, just so you know
in real time, you know, Josh and I always take
a nice long extended Christmas break from recording, and it
has gotten bigger and bigger every year, and this year,
I'm not gonna say how long we have off from recording,
but it's a nice, unprecedented break to chunk of change
(01:59):
and where we love doing the show. But that Christmas
December downtime is a wonderful thing for us.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Yeah. We work hard through throughout the year, so hard,
so you better treat us right. So let's go start
talking about Rocky Horror Picture Show. Quick question, Are you
a virgin?
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Yeah? So I guess I should quickly go over we
should both kind of go over our history with this.
I have never been to a live in the movie
theater Rocky Horror Picture Show showing, which includes, as you
will see, the shadow cast, all the fun of the
audience participation. I have seen it. I remember when it
(02:43):
finally came to home video. It took a long time,
it wasn't like one of those. It was just always
out there.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Oh I remember movies like that. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Yeah, So there was like a lot of fanfare when
Rocky Horror finally came to home video, and I really
got into it for a while there, watching it with
friends and watching it at home. To the tune of
seeing it. I've probably seen the movie at home probably
six or eight times. Oh okay, yeah, so I am
technically a virgin, but I'm gonna go now, like I
(03:13):
have to go now because Atlanta has one of the
great sort of legendary theaters that still do this twice
a month.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Yeah. I think the group that puts on the shadow
cast is called Lips Down on Dixie the Plaza Theater. Yeah,
it sounds like a good time for sure.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
What's your deal?
Speaker 2 (03:30):
I have not ever been either, and I thought that
I wasn't a virgin. I thought if you had seen
the movie, you were not a virgin. No, you're right
if you have to go to a live screening of
it to not be a virgin any longer. So, yeah,
I've seen it a bunch of times too. I love
the soundtrack. Soundtrack is really good. To clean the house too.
(03:53):
I have to say, like you will be dancing with
your swiffer very quickly. But yeah, it's a great movie.
I watched it again this morning. It was really bizarre
to watch it in the morning. Yeah, you know, it's
not it just doesn't jibe with that.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
I watched quite a bit of it today too, not
all of it, but I kind of wanted to make
sure I saw the musical numbers because I just love those.
And I also, as many times as I've seen it,
it's been a long long time, so I couldn't exactly
remember the third act as well. I think it's one
of those films that the first two acts are a
(04:29):
little more famous than the third act. Yeah, I mean,
you know, the time warp is the second number, well third,
I guess if you if you count the beginning song,
which we're going to talk about the second but yeah,
you got to, you know, and then you know Tim
Curry's legendary sweet transvestite song and that entrance in that performance.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Oh just man believably granted. Yeah, come up.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
To the lab, see what's on a slab?
Speaker 2 (04:57):
I mean, like he's just he couldn't have been more perfect.
And as we'll see in a second He was also
not an obvious choice to cast as doctor Frankenferter as
the character he played. So let's get into this. Okay,
For people who've never seen a Rocky Horror picture show,
it is a bizarre musical campfest that Dave, who helps
(05:19):
us out with this one, describes as a send up,
which I know intuitively what send up means, but I've
never seen like an actual definition of it. Oh yeah, yeah,
so I think it's mad. I made up my own
if if you don't mind me sharing it. Affectionate mockery.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Yeah, it's like an affectionate homage slash mockery, I think, right.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
So it's a send up of fifties sci fi and
horror movies, like b movies, things like Forbidden Planet, The
Day of the Earth Stood Still, all of the Cannon
of ed Wood, all that stuff, and it's so it's
kind of a tribute to that. But it's also, like
(06:00):
I said, super camp and it's definitely its own thing,
so much so that it was made in nineteen seventy
five and it does not seem like something from the past.
It has a timeless quality to it. Weirdly enough.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Yeah, I would agree with that. It's sort of in
that sort of same weird rock opera thing as Tommy,
where when you look at Tommy it looks sort of
dated in old fashioned, but also also somehow still sort
of of its time and futuristic or of today's time imputuristic, but.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Not at all anywhere near as serious or not serious
at all like Tommy took Itself. It's not serious. It's
just neat.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Yeah, I guess Tommy took itself fairly seriously.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
So the plot, if we can talk about the plot, right.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Yeah, I mean I don't necessarily think we should give
everything away, definitely, I think we can nutshell it. But
the idea is that there are these two characters, Brad
and Janet, who are very straight laced, sort of maybe rubes,
but sort of two young, naive characters that had been
to a wedding and are talking about getting married themselves.
(07:09):
And they go on a little road trip and it's
a very sort of classic trophy thing, you know. The
car gets a flat and the only thing around is
this creepy castle in the rain, and they knock on
the door and all sorts of crazy, funny, fun sexual hijinks,
sci fi hijinks ensue.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Yeah, so they start out as just as whitebread as
you can be, and then by the end of the
movie they're like they're they're both wearing garter belts and
stockings and bikini briefs and courses. Yeah, like they've just
gone through the sexual transformation. But also, you know, I
think a life transformation, I guess, and I want to
(07:50):
say also, there's plenty of analysis and like you know,
writing about subtexts and all that stuff. This has always
struck me as one of those movies that, like, it's
just not meant for that you're not supposed to like
try to look too deep into it. You're just supposed
to enjoy it on its face.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
I totally agree. So again not to give too much
away if you haven't seen it, but the head of
this castle is doctor Frank n Furd, who is the
Tim Curry character who in that great song Sweet Transvestite.
The lyrics are sweet Transvestite from Transsexual Transylvania, as we
(08:27):
learn in the film, and it's just sort of goofy
that they through the sci fi element in there, which
is really fun. But Transsexual is the home planet of
franken Furter and Transylvania is the galaxy, right, and so
he's sort of Frankenstein, this uberminch on the slab, and
(08:51):
that's kind of the plot. I mean, all kinds of
seductions take place over the course of the movie at
various times, different characters seducing one another. There's a lot
of gender fluidity and sort of it was a movie
ahead of its time in a lot of ways in
that respect, and since it has become obviously a huge
movie in the LGTBQ community.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Yeah, for sure. So that's the movie. And it didn't
actually start out a movie. It started out a stage
play in London actually. So the guy who plays Riffraff
is named Richard O'Brien. Riffraff is doctor Frankenferter's like iglor
like assistant. He has a huge hunchback and like stringy
(09:33):
hair and like dark circles under his eyes.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
And he was thirty one years old by the way
when this got kicked off. Oh really, he always just
struck me as looking super old. But then when I
kind of, you know, look today with more of a
critical eyes, like he doesn't look old old, but the
circles under his eyes, it kind of made him up
to look a little creepier, but I never pictured that
has been in his early thirties.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
No, And actually, if you see later interview with them,
he stayed basically the same, ye, looking the same from
that point on, not dark circles under his eyes, but
he didn't seem to age at all. Ye. That guy
was named Richard or is named Richard O'Brien. He was
the creator of the whole thing and played a pretty
big role in the movie as well. And I believe
(10:19):
he played riff raff in the stage production too, right.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Yeah, so he was a New Zealander who moved to
London in the seventies in the early seventies, and you know,
didn't have great prospects for jobs. He was a stunt
man for a little while. He got some gigs acting
on stage, but not a lot of them, and was
basically bored. Like he's been on record saying like this
was sort of like me doing the crossword, was me
(10:44):
writing these songs. He's sort of kind of fun and
funny songs about those sci fi b movies that he
loved from the nineteen fifties.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
This was before Netflix, by the way, This before Netflix.
So the whole thing that kick this off was really
auspicious there. There he was friends with some people who
were musicians and there was a EMI party, the record
label had a big party, and his musician friends said, Hey,
do you want to record a song to play at
(11:18):
this EMI party. This is like a truck driver stuntman
actor that they're asking, but I guess he had developed
enough of a reputation for writing cool songs that they
asked him, and he wrote science Fiction Double Feature, which
is the song that sung during the opening credits of
the movie Rocky Horror Picture Show, where, even if you
(11:41):
haven't seen the movie, I'm sure you're familiar with the
iconic disembodied bright red lips against white teeth on a
black background that comes from the intro of the movie.
And when he played this song, I guess he got
enough of a response to it that he decided to
(12:01):
kind of take that song and some of his other
songs and cobble him together into like a loose plot
that really never got more fleshed out, and ended up
writing a stage play out of the whole thing.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Yeah, it was called The Rocky Horror Show after I
think the working title was They came is it Denton
High or Denton High School?
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Denton High?
Speaker 1 (12:21):
Okay, they came from Denton High, which I guess the
idea was that Brad and Janet were from Denton because
the church at the beginning is Denton Episcopalian Church. Yeah, okay,
so they changed the title. I think his friend was
stage director. He showed it to Jim Scharman said, they
came from Denton High is not a great title. And
(12:42):
the name of the Frankenstein, like you know, model with
perfect abs that Frankenfurter has built, is named Rocky Horror.
So that's got a ring to it. Let's call it
the Rocky Horror Show.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
And they did. Apparently it was just in time for previews,
so they were able to change the name at the
last minute. And that was man, that was a close
call if you really stop and think about it. So
Jim Sharmon and Richard O'Brien managed to talk their way
into a space above the Royal Court Theater in London,
(13:18):
and the Royal Court Theater was like a serious, legitimate playhouse,
and above it was an experimental theater that I think
sat sixty three or sixty eight people, and they started
performing this thing, and within weeks it was like the
thing to see in London. They sold out and again
(13:38):
it's not that tough to sell out sixty three or
sixty eight seats. It was more like the buzz around.
It was just so just so gripping, and it happened
so quickly that it just took off like a rocket
in very short order. They started touring. They sent a
touring company to cities all over Europe showing people this thing,
and everybody was going nuts for it.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Yeah, and in another turn of fate, I guess you
could say Tim Curry was an actor at the Royal
Court Theater, obviously not some you know, huge name at
the time, and was cast because of that association with
the Royal Court as doctor Frank Enfurd, who was originally
going to he was going to play at German because
(14:22):
Frank and Furter obviously is a German German word. But
I think in the interview he talked about it and
said that he was experimenting around with accents and he
found this the posh British thing really worked and said
the character should sound like the Queen.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
I saw this, and was originally also supposed to be
more of a classic mad scientist, white lab coat kind
of doctor. And in another wonderful twist of fate, they
hired a woman named Sue Blaine to do the costumes
because you know, they needed to bring this They didn't
have a lot of money at first. We'll talk about
(14:59):
the movie budget too, but Sue Blaine basically said, you know,
I got almost nothing and came up with these ideas
for the riped fishnet hose. And I think she had
worked with Tim Curry before on a play in Scotland
where he played a character in drag and she was like,
you look good in heels and a corset. So if
(15:19):
it hadn't have been for all those sort of weird
things coming together, it might have been a German mad
scientist and a white lab coat, which is really hard
to imagine. Once you know, Frankenfurter, this movie wouldn't be
we wouldn't be talking about it right now.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
They may have been a white lab coat. I'm sure
of it. No, really, I don't. I think Tim Curry's
character was such a huge part of the popularity of
it that, yeah, it just wouldn't have been the same.
And by the way, Sue Blaine's costuming budget for the
original stage version was four hundred dollars. Yeah, well is
(15:57):
peanuts even back in nineteen seventy three dollars let's say pounds.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
All right, so maybe a few extra shekels.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Yeah, that's another thing too. We should say there's a
lot of made up information about Rocky Horror and its
origins and like the real story of it. So it's
all fun, but you have to like really kind of
wagh through it, and if something sounds like no way,
you may want to stop and say, probably no way.
(16:25):
But it's still fun. So we'll mention things here there.
But I think we should kind of give like a
little caveat to them like that, how about that?
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Yeah, And this is one of those fan centric pieces
of entertainment where I'm sure there are people out there
that would be fact checking us, right, that's the kindest
way to say it.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
I'm literally sweating because I'm so nervous about that.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
I think we should take a break, and then very
quickly when we come back, I will retell my Tim
Curry story from Los Angeles.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
So softly, jawsh.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Soft, all right, we're back. No, I've said this before,
but I think I can't not say it again. I
actually had two rocky horror sort of run ends in
LA when I lived there, and when I got my
cat Lauran, who was dearly departed. Found Lauran in a
(17:37):
dumpster behind my apartment, took him in, took him to
the vet, and as I was checking out at my vet,
I look over and there's Tim Curry. And when I
say look over, he was like two feet from me.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Well, was he staring at you?
Speaker 1 (17:51):
He don't know if he was or not. He was
shorter than I thought, which was kind of surprising because
I don't know. This character just seems so larger than life.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Well he was where like six inch platform heels.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Yeah, that as well. But when Tim Curry is like,
I think he's listed at five to nine, and that's
usually fudging a little bit. Like he was shorter than
I was. And I went to write a check to
pay for it, and I was holding the roan and
I said, would you mind holding my kitten? And he
was like absolutely. And Lauran was really funny looking. He
had these huge ears. He had a gray back and
(18:26):
the rest of them was black and he eventually grew
in all black hair. I have no idea. It was
kind of a silver back, but he picked him up.
That's why LA's so great. Man. The weirdest things happen
in the most unlikely places. He stared at him and said, Lauran,
you have very dramatic ears. And he went and look
at your back. You look like a baboon. And he
(18:49):
held Lauren while I wrote the check and I'd like
skipped out of there. It was like one of the
great days. So that's why I've.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Never heard that her story. Man, I don't really, I
don't know if you've told it before.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Oh, I don't see how I couldn't have held onto
that one for fifteen years, Like.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
I really, it rings zero bells whatsoever. And there's enough
dimentions to it that something should be like, oh, yeah,
I've heard that one. This story has not been told before,
and it is a fantastic story.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
All right, Well there's my Tim Curry story.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
What's the other rocky horror running you had?
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Well, I know I've talked about that. I was friends
with meat Loaf's daughter for a little while in la.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
Oh yes, sweet Potato, I can't believe you're laughing like
that at that one. That's funny.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
Oh that's a good one. Yeah. I was sort of
friends with her and her boyfriend for a very short
time in LA. That's just a weird crossover where my
friend's girlfriend worked for Meat's ex wife and he did
want to be called Meat by the way. But I
never met him. But I hung out at his house
a few times and he had a TV that came
out of a case at the foot of his bed. Oh,
(19:56):
I've seen that before via remote control, you know. I
was pretty astounded at the time.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
I should say, I've never seen it in person. I've
seen it like on TV.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
Yeah. It was cool though, walking around his house like
rock memorabilia and all kinds of stuff. I wanted to
meet him, but never got a chance.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
I like the Tim Curry story better.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
It's better, for sure.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
So where do we leave off. Oh, the stage play
is on Fire.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
It's on Fire, and they toured it and Tim Curry
played Frankenverter everywhere except Australia.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
I think, oh, really, okay, So the original cast toward it.
They didn't have a traveling cast. That's amazing.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
No, they were pretty as you'll see when they went
to make the movie. They were very loyal to that
original cast as much as they could be.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Yeah, for sure. So by nineteen seventy four, they moved
it over to Los Angeles, and I guess then, yeah,
that makes a lot of sense. Most of the cast
went over to Los Angeles, and including Tim Curry, but
one of the people they added in Los Angeles was
meat Loaf. Yeah, and I never realized, but you know,
Meloaf is pretty famous. He was not famous. He was
(21:01):
maybe a rising star at the time, but he really
gained his fame after Rocky Horror. And this is a
really weird choice for him, but he did it and
he's stuck to it, and it was a really good
move too, because he's got this whole other legend that,
like his actual other fan base probably couldn't care less
about mm hm. And then he has, like the Rocky
(21:24):
Horror fans, two separate fan bases because he made this
very smart choice back in nineteen seventy four.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
I would argue three fan bases, because he's got a
bunch of like creepy guys who only know him as
the guy from Fight Club.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Oh yeah, Robert Paulson. Yeah, we have a friend who
listens with that name. I know, And he's heard it
all yeah, I know, I'm not gonna say it again.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
All right. So the they go to La Meat comes
on board. It's a big hit everywhere they go. So
of course the movie industry comes sticking their nose into it,
and they say, well, why don't you make it this
into a film? And so the Rocky Horror Show became
the Rocky Horror Picture Show. And they did not have
a lot of money for a budget either. But the
(22:08):
kind of the cool part of the story is they
were offered more budget if they would put some sort
of bigger rock and roll stars of the time in
the major roles, and O'Brien said, no, I want to
keep everybody like basically the same, and I'll do it
for less money. And that's exactly what they did.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Yeah, about one and a quarter million. I also saw
one point four million. And even today, this was Fox,
twentieth century Fox. That would be like twentieth century Fox
giving somebody six and a half million dollars to make
a movie today, like it was a shoestring budget. I
mean so shoe string and poor Sue Blaine, she had
(22:49):
a four hundred dollars budget for the stage play Originally
she had like a fifteen sixteen hundred dollars budget for
the movie.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Well used the same costume, so she had a leg
up there.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Yeah, but still you're not supposed to have to recycle
the stage plays costumes for the movie, you know.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Yeah, all right, So they have their meager budget, they
make the film. It's released in September nineteen seventy five
as in a limited release in some test markets. Reviews
weren't great. It is a very weird I mean, it's amazing,
but it's a very weird movie that critics I could
see not getting on board with right away before there's
(23:27):
like a cult established around it. But then it's remarkable.
It never got a nationwide release, but even Roger Ebertt
back then gave it a lukewarm review but said that
it belongs on a stage with the performers and audience
joining in and a collective send up. Because word had
trickled out that this was starting a little bit here
(23:47):
and there.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Yeah, I don't know if he was aware of that
or not, but or if he was just pressing in
about it. But yeah, I think by nineteen seventy six
April first, nineteen seventy six. The tradition of showing Rocky
Horror Picture Show at midnight started in Greenwich Village, actually
at the Waverley Theater. And this, this is the thing
(24:09):
about Rocky Horror Picture Show. Up to this point, we've
been talking about a stage play, a movie, and it's
been following a pretty standard trajectory. The movie was just
panned and it got shelved, but they were still showing
it here there because it was weird enough that Greenwich
Village would have gone crazy for it. Where Rocky Horror
(24:30):
Picture Show differs is what happens at the midnight showings,
and that is the audience participation that Roger Ebert said
would really kind of make the movie better. And it
just it's what makes Rocky Horror Picture Show Rocky Horror
Picture Show, or at the very least, it's what has
made it continue on all these years.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
I think, yeah, I mean, I think it's grossed over
one hundred and twenty million dollars now total, Yeah, over
the years. And this is a movie that did never
get a nationwide release, which is remarkable.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
And I think it's also the longest running theatrical film
release in movie history too.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
It's gotta be.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Yeah, that's as far as I understand it is.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Yeah, the Plaza does it still twice a month. They're
doing it tomorrow, and I'm not gonna go tomorrow because
Emily's birthday parties tomorrow night. But I'm gonna I'm gonna
go soon. And they mercifully started at eleven o'clock because
when I was thinking about it, I was like, am
I really gonna go somewhere at midnight? Like listeners that
(25:35):
aren't fifty years old yet may not understand you don't
go somewhere at midnight anymore. When you're fifty years old.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
You've been asleep for a couple of hours by then
on many nights that it's true, And like even the
thought of it makes me tired. It's like, I can't,
I can't do that.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
I'm gonna pick out a nice time though, when my
daughter is like staying at my mom's and I'm gonna
I'm gonna make sure I do this. That's awesome because
I did watch a lot of the a lot of
YouTube videos of the participation, and it just looks like
so much fun.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
So what's interesting about this is that audience participation and
everything that kind of you that you would experience when
you went to a Rocky Horror Picture Show live screening
today just kind of happened organically. Little bit by little bit,
people around the country and around the world started kind
of contributing, and those ideas would just spread and burgeon
(26:29):
and become part of the Rocky Horror Picture Show experience.
And the whole thing started because the Waverly showed this
this movie enough times and the manager would get the
crowd like ready for it by playing the soundtrack to
the stage show. So by the time people had come
a few times to see the movie, they had memorized
(26:51):
the lyrics generally because they're pretty catchy lyrics, and that
kind of created like this idea of people who really
kind of knew this movie and could sing along and
talk along and just they just kind of absorbed it
into their cells.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
Yeah, so people are singing the song during the run
up to the showing of the film. And by the way,
big thanks to Dave got a lot of this stuff,
and we got a lot of our extra stuff from
the official Rocky Horror Picture Show fansite Rocky Horror dot
com founded by Salpiro. Just a wealth of information and
a love letter to the film. It's a fun website,
(27:30):
but they're pre showing it. They're singing these songs. And then,
according to the legend, on Labor Day of nineteen seventy six,
Labor Day weekend, there was a Staten Island kindergarten teacher
named I guess it's Louis or Lewis Ferreese. And this
person was the first person, as far as the legend goes,
to yell something back at the screen when something happened
(27:52):
on the screen, And that was when Susan Sarandon gets
out in the rain at the beginning of the film,
puts a newspaper over her head to act as an umbrella,
and supposedly he yelled out by an umbrella, you cheap expletive,
and supposedly that started the callouts.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Yeah, and you can actually if you're watching the movie,
you don't even have to have gone to a live showing.
You can pick out the exact moment. Like the people
who made this movie were knew enough to make a movie,
but they also didn't know enough to make a movie
that like, you know, moved along really quickly. There's this
(28:31):
moment where you're watching Brad and Janet get out of
the car and then walk around the car, just stuff
that an editor normally would cut out. And so I
just the fact that that was left in and triggered
that guy to say that it's almost like the movie
they encouraged it itself. I just think that's so fascinating.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
Yeah, it just definitely seems like a movie where just
fate had so many little hands in it, if you
believe that kind of thing. So people started dressing up
a little more and more, and this was mainly in
the lead up to Halloween nineteen seventy six. Then Halloween
came and went and people were still dressing up, and
(29:11):
people started bringing props. I think the original prop was
they would tear up their programs to use this confetti
in the wedding scene, and then they were like, why
don't we just bring rice? And then all of a
sudden they were bringing all kinds of props to use
during the film. So now you have people singing along,
you have people in costume, people shouting back at the
(29:32):
screen at various well timed points, and then you have
these props.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Right, and all of this is happening mostly at the
Waverley Theater, but there's theaters in other cities that are
showing the movie as well, And so somebody from New
York might go see a midnight showing in San Francisco,
and all of a sudden, all the stuff that they've
been developing in New York, this one New Yorker is
just schooling the San Francisco Rocky horror fans. And it
(29:59):
just spread very quickly like that, I mean like really quickly,
and again, like I was saying earlier, it just became
this cohesive whole that now if you go to one
of these shows, like, this is what's going to happen.
These are the props at these certain times, and all
of it just happened organically.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
Yeah, which is really remarkable in a pre internet age. Yeah,
that this can spread through word of mouth like that strongly,
But that's exactly what happened. And then so you've got
all these people dressed up, you have people knowing all
these songs and the movie by heart basically, and apparently
in the balconies of some of these theaters, people would
(30:38):
sort of be acting out the movie and then they
were like, why don't we just go down front under
the screen, or a lot of times there's a stage
under the screen in front of the screen, and let's
just do it down there. And then the literal re
enactment of the full film with full cast was born
via something that was dubbed shadow casting.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
Yeah, I mean, like beat for beat, there are people
acting out the movie in front of the movie screen.
That is like the just now of going to see
Rocky Horror Picture Show in the theater. And apparently Michael
Wolfson is credited for coming up with the Rocky Horror
Review the first organized shadow cast back in nineteen seventy
(31:21):
six seventy seven, and so he may have been the
person who thought of this at least putting it on
stage in front of the screen. But I mean it's
not just people going in their street clothes like acting
this out. Like people are in full costume, full makeup.
I think that depending on riffraff changes costumes. So some
(31:43):
people come as igor riffraff, other people come as sci
fi riffraff, right, so they'll be like they'll alternate who's
doing what depending on the scene. And by the way,
there is a sci fi riffraff statue in Richard O'Brien's
hometown in New Zealand. Oh wow, it's pretty cool looking too.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
I'm curious how the hierarchy of this because it's obviously
all pre cast for the shadow cast. Like I don't
think I could just show up as a virgin dressed
like Brad and be like I want to be Brad tonight.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Yeah, I don't know. I have no idea. That's a
fascinating question, Like how how does that evolve? Like in
a local, local place, like clearly in Atlanta it's organized.
There's like a group that does it. But I mean, like,
how do you how do you join that group? I
don't know.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
I guess you know, you get on their mailing list,
you should, you show up at their meetings, right, and
you start agitating for a role.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
Man, I foresee Chuck's future here. Oh that the good?
Speaker 1 (32:48):
And of course it too. Uh So Richard O'Brien gets
wind of this in the seventies, that what's going on,
and it's just obviously as you would expect, completely knocked
out and flattered. And it was like, you know, this
movie has it all. It's fun, it's campy. You got
the audience up there, you've got the movie playing, you've
(33:08):
got these people acting it out I'm three for three
and not in a haughty way, but just super proud
I think. And then shadow casting spread. There's all kinds
of midnight movies now where people shadow cast, and one
that is a great one to check out if you
ever can, and very heavily influenced music wise too, I
think is Head Big and The Angry Inch.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
Yeah. They also do Clue apparently, which is another Tim
Curry great film.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
Oh god, it's so good.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
So if you go, like we said, you are a virgin,
and at the very beginning of the show, somebody will
come out with a microphone and get everybody pumped up
and ask the virgins to all stand up, and once
you stand up, people around you will probably put a
V on your forehead with lipstick. That's the first thing
that's probably going to happen to you. I love it.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
That's the worst thing that's going to happen. Yeah, just
say yes is what I recommend.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
Yeah. So, yeah, that's a great way to put it, Chuck.
The thing to remember throughout all this is Dave puts
it really really well. They're not trying to scare you away.
They want you to come back again. This is just
part of like this ritual, this process that's developed over
the decades, and there's some things that you can expect
(34:25):
and can prepare yourself ahead of time. There's tons of
off color jokes, mostly sex jokes. They're almost exclusively sex jokes,
sophomoor sex jokes. You can't expect to hear the movie.
You're not going to sit down and watch a movie.
That's not what you're going to do. It reminds me
of remember I can't remember what concert it was on
(34:49):
The Simpsons, but everybody else is standing up and auto
sitting down. You know the rocker bus driver, Oh yeah, yeah,
and he goes sit down, sit down. You're ruining it
for the rest of us. I can just imagine somebody
going to a midnight screening of Rocky Horror Picture Show
and just expecting to sit there and watch the movie.
You know.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
Yeah. I mean, if you have hang ups and if
you're maybe a little prude about things like this may
not be the experience for you because there will be
people in various states of undress, like you mentioned, tons
of body body sex jokes, and it's just a sort
of a raucous good time. But again, my recommendation this
(35:29):
is what I'm gonna do is just go and say
yes to everything. If you're a virgin, they may drag
you up there and teach you the time warp during
that point in the movie. You might get sprayed when
it's the rain. I mean, I think everyone kind of
gets sprayed when it rains.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
I think they tend to aim for the virgins.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
Yeah, but just again, if you're not up for sort
of a fun, interactive multi media experience, then maybe just
don't go right.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
Yeah, and if you are a prude, this is your
big chance to break out of your shell. Yeah, totally, So, Chuck,
I say we take another break and we'll come back
with more on the Rocky Horror Picture Show stoft We Josh,
(36:40):
we should probably say we've been using some antiquated terms
for transgender people, but it's because it's part of the movie. Yeah,
And I think the movie is so iconic and so
in favor of gender fluidity. And this is decades before
where we are today, when gender fluidity has really broken out,
and I mean it's basically become mainstream in a lot
(37:02):
of ways. This is forty five, almost fifty years before, right, Yeah,
So I think that the popularity and the iconicness of
the movie has actually kind of given it a pass
that no one's offended by the use of transvestite or
(37:25):
transsexual in the context of that movie.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
Yeah, I think everyone understands these were the terms of
the time. When they did the remake with Laverne Cox,
who is a new Laverne Cox from Orange Ise and
New Black, but a great transgender actress to play Frankenfurter,
I think she was even like, oh, you know, should
we update this a little bit, and then finally decided no,
the song is so iconic. These were the terms of
(37:50):
the day. And again, it's a it is a blatant
love letter. And I believe Richard O'Brien identifies as trans
if I'm not mistaken. So I mean it's it is
for this group of people, this group of people who
felt like they were outsiders, who maybe didn't belong in
(38:11):
mainstream society. And these are the people who got dressed
up and who went down there and were so creative
and sort of building this culture around it like it
is a very and always has been a very safe
space for that to occur. And so it's just a
great movie for a lot of reasons and that's certainly
one of them.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
Yeah, I can't imagine how many kids in like Indiana
and Iowa and Kansas and Georgia were just had the
opportunity to find themselves when they found like midnight showings
of Rocky Horror Picture Show and like the people who
were there that were like them, that were and this
was the only place in their life that they could
go and just be themselves like that. It's really sad
(38:53):
to think of, but it's also really heartening to think
that they finally did find that place, you know.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
Absolutely, and you know what it did was it was
like it created an excuse to put on the corset
and the high heels if you really need an excuse,
but if you were someone struggling with you know, in
the nineteen seventies, especially with your gender fluidity, and like
(39:20):
just to have a reason like no mom and dad,
like it's a movie thing, you wear these costumes and
like it gave them a reason to actually go and
be themselves. And Tim Curry over the years and Richard
O'Brien had both received you know, just hundreds and thousands
of letters and shout outs from people that said, you know,
that confirm all of this, they said, like I was
(39:41):
able to be myself and I was able to come
out because of you and because of this film and
what it did. So it's been a really sort of
heartwarming thing I think for the for the creators and
the actors.
Speaker 2 (39:53):
Yeah, no, for sure. And I again, one of the
other reasons that it gets to pass is because that
show is so reaffirming that one of Tim Curry's lines
is actually in one of the songs is don't dream
it be it, and people just latch onto that because
if you just stop and think about what it's saying,
(40:14):
like that's that's kind of all you need to know.
It's almost like the campy version of Yoda's there do
or do not? There is no try kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
You know, if you build it, they will come. There
are all sorts of classic movie lines.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
There are, and that is one of them. For sure.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
No, it is a super empowering statement, and you know,
it's the kind of thing where I don't think Richard
O'Brien really maybe thought about that specific line too much
at the time, but it ends up having so much
meaning later on. And you know, kind of a fun
side story that we didn't get to earlier, but Tim
Curry lived near the Waverley in Greenwich Village in New
(40:52):
York when this is going on, and apparently wanted to
go and like make an appearance and just knock everyone
socks off. Yeah, and called ahead to the theater even
showed up. They let him in, and then I guess
it was a couple of it sounds like a couple
of rogue theater attendants that hadn't let him in. We're like, no,
(41:13):
this guy's a fake, Like, let's get him out of here,
and they literally threw Tim Curry out.
Speaker 2 (41:19):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
He gets incensed, gets his passport and shows them, and
I think it was like the manager or somebody who
had the authority to let him back in was like,
I'm so sorry you come back in, and he was like,
I wouldn't dream of it, and he left.
Speaker 2 (41:31):
Oh really, yes, Wow, that's how you show him, Curry.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
I got so He's like, I've got a kitten to
hold in Los Angeles.
Speaker 2 (41:40):
That's right. There's some other pretty neat little things about
the movie too. One of the ones that I love
is Easter eggs. There are actual Easter eggs hidden in
the movie unintentionally because apparently they had an Easter egg
hunt on the set and they didn't find them all.
(42:01):
So if you really know what to look for, I
didn't see him, but you can find three different Easter
eggs throughout the movie. And that's not actually the term
or where the term Easter egg comes from. Right, Strangely enough,
apparently that was from an Atari game developer from nineteen eighty.
That's who really coined that term and where it came
(42:22):
into use from.
Speaker 1 (42:23):
I think, if I'm not mistaken from our Nintendo episode,
that was Warren Robinette, who wrote the game Adventure and
that had the first Easter Egg.
Speaker 2 (42:32):
Oh is that right? I'm pretty sure I saw a
guy named Steve Wright. Oh really yeah, coined the term. Yeah,
oh okay, I think the first Easter Egg was an
adventure though, But maybe I got to coin the I gotcha,
I got you? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (42:46):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (42:47):
Yeah? What else?
Speaker 1 (42:48):
Chuck Well, Susan Sarandon, who was They were all very young,
They're on their sort of late twenties, early thirties when
they were making this. She got pneumonia not too long
after she got there. And they shot this movie at
a real old English castle named Oakley Court, which is
now a luxury hotel, even though I think at the
(43:09):
time it was falling apart such that the owners wanted
to raise the place. So they shoot it in this legit,
drafty old castle. She gets there, she's got pneumonia. She's
half undressed for half the movie. There's a scene in
a swimming pool. She's freezing to death and feverish, you know,
those cold chills, And apparently just had a pretty rough
(43:29):
go but was like game through all of it.
Speaker 2 (43:32):
Well even worse, and I saw this confirmed by her.
She's like, you have to get me some heated place
to be sick in between takes. So they gave her
a trailer and it did in fact have heat, there
were space heaters in it, but they ended up burning
the trailer down. It was that kind of shoot.
Speaker 1 (43:53):
That's amazing. Another bit of trivia that all rocky horror
fans know. But those disembodied lips at the beginning where
the lips of Patricia Quinn, who played Magenta and Usharette,
but and signed on with the idea that she was
going to sing that song, and she said she loved it.
I think she said it was like the most beautiful
song she'd ever heard at the time. But when it
(44:15):
came time to actually sing the song, Richard O'Brien sang it,
and Patricia Quinn, I think, somewhat disappointedly lip synced it.
Speaker 2 (44:25):
She was really mad about that. She had basically joined
the cast originally for the stage show because of that song,
and so she thought she would have the opportunity to
do it in the movie, and I guess he had
her sing, and she didn't find out until the movie
was released, till she saw it that she wasn't the
(44:46):
one who was singing it at the beginning. Not cool, no,
but I think it was a good move because if
you listened, I don't think it would be the same
with her singing.
Speaker 1 (44:56):
Yeah, And I think it definitely like you said with
meat Loaf, was he had been in Hair right before this.
He had a duo album with this woman, and he
was sort of around, but he definitely was not a
big star at all. And Rocky Horror his role as Eddie,
and especially the great great song Hotpituity Bless My Soul,
(45:19):
such a good song. I think people saw that and
they were like, there's something to this guy.
Speaker 2 (45:24):
Yeah, for sure, because he plays the part really really well.
I mean, that does a great job. There's a lot
of lore around it too, that those people that the
producers offered a bigger budget to Richard O'Brien and Jim
Sharmon to make the movie. Another thing, too, Chuck, that
I found fascinating. You mentioned before that the producers had
(45:45):
wanted to kind of stack the film version with like
rock stars. Yeah, there's tons of legends about who those were. Chaer,
David Bowie, Mick Jagger as doctor Frank Nfer.
Speaker 1 (45:56):
It would have been pretty good actually, yeah. But yeah,
he's the only person that could see doing justice to
that role. Let me just say that, I'm not saying
better than Tim.
Speaker 2 (46:06):
Curry, but it'd be fascinating to go see for sure. Yeah.
So the one that does seem to be actually legitimate
that the producers actually did float was Elvis as Eddie,
replacing meat Loaf with.
Speaker 1 (46:19):
Elvis seventy six Elvis. Wow, Yeah, that was an Eddie end.
Speaker 2 (46:24):
Yeah, it was basically it would be a cool cameo
for him.
Speaker 1 (46:29):
That would have been. Oh man, I'm just trying to
wrap my head around what that would have been like.
I mean, he would have been great in that role
and singing that number. But can you imagine what kind
of like upheaval that would have thrown that production into.
Speaker 2 (46:43):
Oh yeah, I mean Elvison completely imbalanced the movie too.
Speaker 1 (46:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:50):
You know, you've got all these people who are doing
this thing because they love it. And there's Elvis too,
you know, yeah, like Vegas Elvis. Yeah, exactly did you
see that movie yet? Delvis movieh No, another bos Lerman one. Yeah, No,
I haven't seen it.
Speaker 1 (47:07):
It's we're seeing it's it was. I think I might
have even mentioned it before. It's a bit much, but
the actor does such a great job in recreating those performances.
It's it's worth it for that.
Speaker 2 (47:17):
There's also a little known sequel, the Rocky Horror Picture Show.
I did not know this until a couple of days ago.
Speaker 1 (47:24):
Yeah, I knew about it. I've never seen it.
Speaker 2 (47:27):
It's called Shock Treatment, right, Yeah, and it was sort
of a loose sequel.
Speaker 1 (47:33):
Did not catch on obviously like Rocky Horror did at all.
It was it was basically a big flop. Yeah. I
just remember seeing when I worked at the video store
an Athens at Vision Video. I remember seeing the cover
of Shock Treatment and kind of was like, what is
this even and then found out later that it was
a sequel.
Speaker 2 (47:53):
Gotcha you got anything else?
Speaker 1 (47:56):
I got nothing else. I'm gonna go. I encourage everyone
else to go that. Maybe they'd be fun to get
some stuff. You should know local listeners to all go
on a certain night.
Speaker 2 (48:05):
That's a great idea. Also, if you want to find
you know where you can see one by your house.
The Rocky Horror site rocky horror dot com actually has
a pretty good list around the country and I think
around the world too, because they do it in England.
But I've heard they are way more reserved than one
(48:27):
you would go to in America.
Speaker 1 (48:30):
Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 2 (48:32):
So that's it for Rocky Horror Picture Show. I hope
you enjoyed it. Hope it was worth it. Stuff you
should know. Army, thanks for the idea. And since I
said thanks for the idea, it's time for listener mail.
Speaker 1 (48:46):
Yeah. Before we get into that, though, we always like
to give our end of the year well wishings yea
to everyone who got us through another year. And I
believe your lovely wife has a birthday coming up.
Speaker 2 (48:58):
Too, right, Yeah, when this comes out, it'll be right
around Umi's birthday. Happy birthday and really coolly in real
time it's right around Emily's birthday, So happy birthday Emily too.
Speaker 1 (49:09):
That's right, her birthday is in a few days. Yeah,
so thanks everyone. You know, it's been a rough few years,
but I think twenty twenty two shone a little light
on us all and we hope that continues. And thanks
for hanging in there and letting us keep our jobs again.
Speaker 2 (49:24):
Yeah, well, said Chuck.
Speaker 1 (49:26):
You could all fire us.
Speaker 2 (49:27):
Please don't, though, I have to do.
Speaker 1 (49:29):
Stop listening and we're gone.
Speaker 2 (49:31):
You should stop putting ideas in people's heads.
Speaker 1 (49:34):
Agreed.
Speaker 2 (49:35):
Yeah, well, from us and from Jerry and all of
the gang who work on stuff, you should know. Happy
New Year everybody.
Speaker 1 (49:43):
All right, so we will do a listener mail from
the Shakespeare episode about whether Shakespeare really wrote all that stuff?
Speaker 2 (49:51):
That is maybe one of that's my new favorite episode.
Oh yeah, I loved that episode. I thought it was
so fascinating. It was just a really good episode.
Speaker 1 (50:01):
Awesome. I love that. Hey, guys enjoyed the podcast. I
have to admit I am an ox Fordian believer that
the seventeenth Earl of Oxford was the real Shakespeare.
Speaker 2 (50:10):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (50:11):
Many facts about the Earl's life and its reflection in
the plays are very convincing, but I also was intrigued
by the Earl's own family crest being a lion brandishing
a spear. The history of the Earl being a part
of the Elizabethan court life, as well as his travels
to Italy and his family life mirror so much in
the plays. I had the bad form when visiting Stratford
upon Avon, the Shakespeare family home there, having a discussion
(50:34):
with another visitor about Edward de Vere possibly being the
true Shakespeare, and the tour guide was rushing us out. Wow,
thanks for the fun discussion. That is from Dana B. Goward.
Speaker 2 (50:47):
Dana got booted from Stratford upon Avon. I love it.
Run out of town. I could see that being a
bad place to mention that.
Speaker 1 (50:55):
Yeah, I was hoping we would hear from some oxfordy instead.
Speaker 2 (50:58):
Yeah. Thanks a lot, Data, Thanks for getting in touch,
and if you want to be like Dana everybody you
can get in touch with us as well. Send us
an email to Stuff podcast at iHeartRadio dot com.
Speaker 1 (51:13):
Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For
more podcasts Myheart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,
Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's
Chuck and Jerry's here too, and it's a super awesome,
amazing last episode of the year episode. I can't think
of one that could have been better than this chalk.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
I guess people, it's a spoiler of what the show
is about already, because you've seen the title as a listener, right,
But this is courtesy of the Stuff you Should Know Army.
Came straight from them. We got emails that said, hey,
the Stuff you should Army is chattering about Rocky Horror
Picture show they have been shivering with and tsut patient.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Very nice.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
And so this is it Stuff you should Know Army.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Yeah. Oh and also in return, you guys, if you
haven't already, go donate to co ed because we're running
out of time. These the last few days of the
year's right, and our pledge drive or fun drive, I
don't know what you'd call it, Our awesome drive fun drive. Yeah,
the d is in parentheses. Ends on January first or
(01:24):
December thirty first at eleven fifty nine pm, who knows.
But you can go to Cooperative for education dot org
slash sysk donate and we're going to reach that million
dollar goal. I just know it.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
I totally agree, and I'm super excited for this episode.
Our year is winding down. Yeah, just so you know
in real time, you know, Josh and I always take
a nice long extended Christmas break from recording, and it
has gotten bigger and bigger every year, and this year,
I'm not gonna say how long we have off from recording,
but it's a nice, unprecedented break to chunk of change
(01:59):
and where we love doing the show. But that Christmas
December downtime is a wonderful thing for us.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Yeah. We work hard through throughout the year, so hard,
so you better treat us right. So let's go start
talking about Rocky Horror Picture Show. Quick question, Are you
a virgin?
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Yeah? So I guess I should quickly go over we
should both kind of go over our history with this.
I have never been to a live in the movie
theater Rocky Horror Picture Show showing, which includes, as you
will see, the shadow cast, all the fun of the
audience participation. I have seen it. I remember when it
(02:43):
finally came to home video. It took a long time,
it wasn't like one of those. It was just always
out there.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Oh I remember movies like that. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Yeah, So there was like a lot of fanfare when
Rocky Horror finally came to home video, and I really
got into it for a while there, watching it with
friends and watching it at home. To the tune of
seeing it. I've probably seen the movie at home probably
six or eight times. Oh okay, yeah, so I am
technically a virgin, but I'm gonna go now, like I
(03:13):
have to go now because Atlanta has one of the
great sort of legendary theaters that still do this twice
a month.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Yeah. I think the group that puts on the shadow
cast is called Lips Down on Dixie the Plaza Theater. Yeah,
it sounds like a good time for sure.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
What's your deal?
Speaker 2 (03:30):
I have not ever been either, and I thought that
I wasn't a virgin. I thought if you had seen
the movie, you were not a virgin. No, you're right
if you have to go to a live screening of
it to not be a virgin any longer. So, yeah,
I've seen it a bunch of times too. I love
the soundtrack. Soundtrack is really good. To clean the house too.
(03:53):
I have to say, like you will be dancing with
your swiffer very quickly. But yeah, it's a great movie.
I watched it again this morning. It was really bizarre
to watch it in the morning. Yeah, you know, it's
not it just doesn't jibe with that.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
I watched quite a bit of it today too, not
all of it, but I kind of wanted to make
sure I saw the musical numbers because I just love those.
And I also, as many times as I've seen it,
it's been a long long time, so I couldn't exactly
remember the third act as well. I think it's one
of those films that the first two acts are a
(04:29):
little more famous than the third act. Yeah, I mean,
you know, the time warp is the second number, well third,
I guess if you if you count the beginning song,
which we're going to talk about the second but yeah,
you got to, you know, and then you know Tim
Curry's legendary sweet transvestite song and that entrance in that performance.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Oh just man believably granted. Yeah, come up.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
To the lab, see what's on a slab?
Speaker 2 (04:57):
I mean, like he's just he couldn't have been more perfect.
And as we'll see in a second He was also
not an obvious choice to cast as doctor Frankenferter as
the character he played. So let's get into this. Okay,
For people who've never seen a Rocky Horror picture show,
it is a bizarre musical campfest that Dave, who helps
(05:19):
us out with this one, describes as a send up,
which I know intuitively what send up means, but I've
never seen like an actual definition of it. Oh yeah, yeah,
so I think it's mad. I made up my own
if if you don't mind me sharing it. Affectionate mockery.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Yeah, it's like an affectionate homage slash mockery, I think, right.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
So it's a send up of fifties sci fi and
horror movies, like b movies, things like Forbidden Planet, The
Day of the Earth Stood Still, all of the Cannon
of ed Wood, all that stuff, and it's so it's
kind of a tribute to that. But it's also, like
(06:00):
I said, super camp and it's definitely its own thing,
so much so that it was made in nineteen seventy
five and it does not seem like something from the past.
It has a timeless quality to it. Weirdly enough.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Yeah, I would agree with that. It's sort of in
that sort of same weird rock opera thing as Tommy,
where when you look at Tommy it looks sort of
dated in old fashioned, but also also somehow still sort
of of its time and futuristic or of today's time imputuristic, but.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Not at all anywhere near as serious or not serious
at all like Tommy took Itself. It's not serious. It's
just neat.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Yeah, I guess Tommy took itself fairly seriously.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
So the plot, if we can talk about the plot, right.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Yeah, I mean I don't necessarily think we should give
everything away, definitely, I think we can nutshell it. But
the idea is that there are these two characters, Brad
and Janet, who are very straight laced, sort of maybe rubes,
but sort of two young, naive characters that had been
to a wedding and are talking about getting married themselves.
(07:09):
And they go on a little road trip and it's
a very sort of classic trophy thing, you know. The
car gets a flat and the only thing around is
this creepy castle in the rain, and they knock on
the door and all sorts of crazy, funny, fun sexual hijinks,
sci fi hijinks ensue.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Yeah, so they start out as just as whitebread as
you can be, and then by the end of the
movie they're like they're they're both wearing garter belts and
stockings and bikini briefs and courses. Yeah, like they've just
gone through the sexual transformation. But also, you know, I
think a life transformation, I guess, and I want to
(07:50):
say also, there's plenty of analysis and like you know,
writing about subtexts and all that stuff. This has always
struck me as one of those movies that, like, it's
just not meant for that you're not supposed to like
try to look too deep into it. You're just supposed
to enjoy it on its face.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
I totally agree. So again not to give too much
away if you haven't seen it, but the head of
this castle is doctor Frank n Furd, who is the
Tim Curry character who in that great song Sweet Transvestite.
The lyrics are sweet Transvestite from Transsexual Transylvania, as we
(08:27):
learn in the film, and it's just sort of goofy
that they through the sci fi element in there, which
is really fun. But Transsexual is the home planet of
franken Furter and Transylvania is the galaxy, right, and so
he's sort of Frankenstein, this uberminch on the slab, and
(08:51):
that's kind of the plot. I mean, all kinds of
seductions take place over the course of the movie at
various times, different characters seducing one another. There's a lot
of gender fluidity and sort of it was a movie
ahead of its time in a lot of ways in
that respect, and since it has become obviously a huge
movie in the LGTBQ community.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Yeah, for sure. So that's the movie. And it didn't
actually start out a movie. It started out a stage
play in London actually. So the guy who plays Riffraff
is named Richard O'Brien. Riffraff is doctor Frankenferter's like iglor
like assistant. He has a huge hunchback and like stringy
(09:33):
hair and like dark circles under his eyes.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
And he was thirty one years old by the way
when this got kicked off. Oh really, he always just
struck me as looking super old. But then when I
kind of, you know, look today with more of a
critical eyes, like he doesn't look old old, but the
circles under his eyes, it kind of made him up
to look a little creepier, but I never pictured that
has been in his early thirties.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
No, And actually, if you see later interview with them,
he stayed basically the same, ye, looking the same from
that point on, not dark circles under his eyes, but
he didn't seem to age at all. Ye. That guy
was named Richard or is named Richard O'Brien. He was
the creator of the whole thing and played a pretty
big role in the movie as well. And I believe
(10:19):
he played riff raff in the stage production too, right.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Yeah, so he was a New Zealander who moved to
London in the seventies in the early seventies, and you know,
didn't have great prospects for jobs. He was a stunt
man for a little while. He got some gigs acting
on stage, but not a lot of them, and was
basically bored. Like he's been on record saying like this
was sort of like me doing the crossword, was me
(10:44):
writing these songs. He's sort of kind of fun and
funny songs about those sci fi b movies that he
loved from the nineteen fifties.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
This was before Netflix, by the way, This before Netflix.
So the whole thing that kick this off was really
auspicious there. There he was friends with some people who
were musicians and there was a EMI party, the record
label had a big party, and his musician friends said, Hey,
do you want to record a song to play at
(11:18):
this EMI party. This is like a truck driver stuntman
actor that they're asking, but I guess he had developed
enough of a reputation for writing cool songs that they
asked him, and he wrote science Fiction Double Feature, which
is the song that sung during the opening credits of
the movie Rocky Horror Picture Show, where, even if you
(11:41):
haven't seen the movie, I'm sure you're familiar with the
iconic disembodied bright red lips against white teeth on a
black background that comes from the intro of the movie.
And when he played this song, I guess he got
enough of a response to it that he decided to
(12:01):
kind of take that song and some of his other
songs and cobble him together into like a loose plot
that really never got more fleshed out, and ended up
writing a stage play out of the whole thing.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Yeah, it was called The Rocky Horror Show after I
think the working title was They came is it Denton
High or Denton High School?
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Denton High?
Speaker 1 (12:21):
Okay, they came from Denton High, which I guess the
idea was that Brad and Janet were from Denton because
the church at the beginning is Denton Episcopalian Church. Yeah, okay,
so they changed the title. I think his friend was
stage director. He showed it to Jim Scharman said, they
came from Denton High is not a great title. And
(12:42):
the name of the Frankenstein, like you know, model with
perfect abs that Frankenfurter has built, is named Rocky Horror.
So that's got a ring to it. Let's call it
the Rocky Horror Show.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
And they did. Apparently it was just in time for previews,
so they were able to change the name at the
last minute. And that was man, that was a close
call if you really stop and think about it. So
Jim Sharmon and Richard O'Brien managed to talk their way
into a space above the Royal Court Theater in London,
(13:18):
and the Royal Court Theater was like a serious, legitimate playhouse,
and above it was an experimental theater that I think
sat sixty three or sixty eight people, and they started
performing this thing, and within weeks it was like the
thing to see in London. They sold out and again
(13:38):
it's not that tough to sell out sixty three or
sixty eight seats. It was more like the buzz around.
It was just so just so gripping, and it happened
so quickly that it just took off like a rocket
in very short order. They started touring. They sent a
touring company to cities all over Europe showing people this thing,
and everybody was going nuts for it.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Yeah, and in another turn of fate, I guess you
could say Tim Curry was an actor at the Royal
Court Theater, obviously not some you know, huge name at
the time, and was cast because of that association with
the Royal Court as doctor Frank Enfurd, who was originally
going to he was going to play at German because
(14:22):
Frank and Furter obviously is a German German word. But
I think in the interview he talked about it and
said that he was experimenting around with accents and he
found this the posh British thing really worked and said
the character should sound like the Queen.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
I saw this, and was originally also supposed to be
more of a classic mad scientist, white lab coat kind
of doctor. And in another wonderful twist of fate, they
hired a woman named Sue Blaine to do the costumes
because you know, they needed to bring this They didn't
have a lot of money at first. We'll talk about
(14:59):
the movie budget too, but Sue Blaine basically said, you know,
I got almost nothing and came up with these ideas
for the riped fishnet hose. And I think she had
worked with Tim Curry before on a play in Scotland
where he played a character in drag and she was like,
you look good in heels and a corset. So if
(15:19):
it hadn't have been for all those sort of weird
things coming together, it might have been a German mad
scientist and a white lab coat, which is really hard
to imagine. Once you know, Frankenfurter, this movie wouldn't be
we wouldn't be talking about it right now.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
They may have been a white lab coat. I'm sure
of it. No, really, I don't. I think Tim Curry's
character was such a huge part of the popularity of
it that, yeah, it just wouldn't have been the same.
And by the way, Sue Blaine's costuming budget for the
original stage version was four hundred dollars. Yeah, well is
(15:57):
peanuts even back in nineteen seventy three dollars let's say pounds.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
All right, so maybe a few extra shekels.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Yeah, that's another thing too. We should say there's a
lot of made up information about Rocky Horror and its
origins and like the real story of it. So it's
all fun, but you have to like really kind of
wagh through it, and if something sounds like no way,
you may want to stop and say, probably no way.
(16:25):
But it's still fun. So we'll mention things here there.
But I think we should kind of give like a
little caveat to them like that, how about that?
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Yeah, And this is one of those fan centric pieces
of entertainment where I'm sure there are people out there
that would be fact checking us, right, that's the kindest
way to say it.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
I'm literally sweating because I'm so nervous about that.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
I think we should take a break, and then very
quickly when we come back, I will retell my Tim
Curry story from Los Angeles.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
So softly, jawsh.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Soft, all right, we're back. No, I've said this before,
but I think I can't not say it again. I
actually had two rocky horror sort of run ends in
LA when I lived there, and when I got my
cat Lauran, who was dearly departed. Found Lauran in a
(17:37):
dumpster behind my apartment, took him in, took him to
the vet, and as I was checking out at my vet,
I look over and there's Tim Curry. And when I
say look over, he was like two feet from me.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Well, was he staring at you?
Speaker 1 (17:51):
He don't know if he was or not. He was
shorter than I thought, which was kind of surprising because
I don't know. This character just seems so larger than life.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Well he was where like six inch platform heels.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Yeah, that as well. But when Tim Curry is like,
I think he's listed at five to nine, and that's
usually fudging a little bit. Like he was shorter than
I was. And I went to write a check to
pay for it, and I was holding the roan and
I said, would you mind holding my kitten? And he
was like absolutely. And Lauran was really funny looking. He
had these huge ears. He had a gray back and
(18:26):
the rest of them was black and he eventually grew
in all black hair. I have no idea. It was
kind of a silver back, but he picked him up.
That's why LA's so great. Man. The weirdest things happen
in the most unlikely places. He stared at him and said, Lauran,
you have very dramatic ears. And he went and look
at your back. You look like a baboon. And he
(18:49):
held Lauren while I wrote the check and I'd like
skipped out of there. It was like one of the
great days. So that's why I've.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Never heard that her story. Man, I don't really, I
don't know if you've told it before.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Oh, I don't see how I couldn't have held onto
that one for fifteen years, Like.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
I really, it rings zero bells whatsoever. And there's enough
dimentions to it that something should be like, oh, yeah,
I've heard that one. This story has not been told before,
and it is a fantastic story.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
All right, Well there's my Tim Curry story.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
What's the other rocky horror running you had?
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Well, I know I've talked about that. I was friends
with meat Loaf's daughter for a little while in la.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
Oh yes, sweet Potato, I can't believe you're laughing like
that at that one. That's funny.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
Oh that's a good one. Yeah. I was sort of
friends with her and her boyfriend for a very short
time in LA. That's just a weird crossover where my
friend's girlfriend worked for Meat's ex wife and he did
want to be called Meat by the way. But I
never met him. But I hung out at his house
a few times and he had a TV that came
out of a case at the foot of his bed. Oh,
(19:56):
I've seen that before via remote control, you know. I
was pretty astounded at the time.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
I should say, I've never seen it in person. I've
seen it like on TV.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
Yeah. It was cool though, walking around his house like
rock memorabilia and all kinds of stuff. I wanted to
meet him, but never got a chance.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
I like the Tim Curry story better.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
It's better, for sure.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
So where do we leave off. Oh, the stage play
is on Fire.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
It's on Fire, and they toured it and Tim Curry
played Frankenverter everywhere except Australia.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
I think, oh, really, okay, So the original cast toward it.
They didn't have a traveling cast. That's amazing.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
No, they were pretty as you'll see when they went
to make the movie. They were very loyal to that
original cast as much as they could be.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Yeah, for sure. So by nineteen seventy four, they moved
it over to Los Angeles, and I guess then, yeah,
that makes a lot of sense. Most of the cast
went over to Los Angeles, and including Tim Curry, but
one of the people they added in Los Angeles was
meat Loaf. Yeah, and I never realized, but you know,
Meloaf is pretty famous. He was not famous. He was
(21:01):
maybe a rising star at the time, but he really
gained his fame after Rocky Horror. And this is a
really weird choice for him, but he did it and
he's stuck to it, and it was a really good
move too, because he's got this whole other legend that,
like his actual other fan base probably couldn't care less
about mm hm. And then he has, like the Rocky
(21:24):
Horror fans, two separate fan bases because he made this
very smart choice back in nineteen seventy four.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
I would argue three fan bases, because he's got a
bunch of like creepy guys who only know him as
the guy from Fight Club.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Oh yeah, Robert Paulson. Yeah, we have a friend who
listens with that name. I know, And he's heard it
all yeah, I know, I'm not gonna say it again.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
All right. So the they go to La Meat comes
on board. It's a big hit everywhere they go. So
of course the movie industry comes sticking their nose into it,
and they say, well, why don't you make it this
into a film? And so the Rocky Horror Show became
the Rocky Horror Picture Show. And they did not have
a lot of money for a budget either. But the
(22:08):
kind of the cool part of the story is they
were offered more budget if they would put some sort
of bigger rock and roll stars of the time in
the major roles, and O'Brien said, no, I want to
keep everybody like basically the same, and I'll do it
for less money. And that's exactly what they did.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Yeah, about one and a quarter million. I also saw
one point four million. And even today, this was Fox,
twentieth century Fox. That would be like twentieth century Fox
giving somebody six and a half million dollars to make
a movie today, like it was a shoestring budget. I
mean so shoe string and poor Sue Blaine, she had
(22:49):
a four hundred dollars budget for the stage play Originally
she had like a fifteen sixteen hundred dollars budget for
the movie.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Well used the same costume, so she had a leg
up there.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Yeah, but still you're not supposed to have to recycle
the stage plays costumes for the movie, you know.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Yeah, all right, So they have their meager budget, they
make the film. It's released in September nineteen seventy five
as in a limited release in some test markets. Reviews
weren't great. It is a very weird I mean, it's amazing,
but it's a very weird movie that critics I could
see not getting on board with right away before there's
(23:27):
like a cult established around it. But then it's remarkable.
It never got a nationwide release, but even Roger Ebertt
back then gave it a lukewarm review but said that
it belongs on a stage with the performers and audience
joining in and a collective send up. Because word had
trickled out that this was starting a little bit here
(23:47):
and there.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Yeah, I don't know if he was aware of that
or not, but or if he was just pressing in
about it. But yeah, I think by nineteen seventy six
April first, nineteen seventy six. The tradition of showing Rocky
Horror Picture Show at midnight started in Greenwich Village, actually
at the Waverley Theater. And this, this is the thing
(24:09):
about Rocky Horror Picture Show. Up to this point, we've
been talking about a stage play, a movie, and it's
been following a pretty standard trajectory. The movie was just
panned and it got shelved, but they were still showing
it here there because it was weird enough that Greenwich
Village would have gone crazy for it. Where Rocky Horror
(24:30):
Picture Show differs is what happens at the midnight showings,
and that is the audience participation that Roger Ebert said
would really kind of make the movie better. And it
just it's what makes Rocky Horror Picture Show Rocky Horror
Picture Show, or at the very least, it's what has
made it continue on all these years.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
I think, yeah, I mean, I think it's grossed over
one hundred and twenty million dollars now total, Yeah, over
the years. And this is a movie that did never
get a nationwide release, which is remarkable.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
And I think it's also the longest running theatrical film
release in movie history too.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
It's gotta be.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Yeah, that's as far as I understand it is.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Yeah, the Plaza does it still twice a month. They're
doing it tomorrow, and I'm not gonna go tomorrow because
Emily's birthday parties tomorrow night. But I'm gonna I'm gonna
go soon. And they mercifully started at eleven o'clock because
when I was thinking about it, I was like, am
I really gonna go somewhere at midnight? Like listeners that
(25:35):
aren't fifty years old yet may not understand you don't
go somewhere at midnight anymore. When you're fifty years old.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
You've been asleep for a couple of hours by then
on many nights that it's true, And like even the
thought of it makes me tired. It's like, I can't,
I can't do that.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
I'm gonna pick out a nice time though, when my
daughter is like staying at my mom's and I'm gonna
I'm gonna make sure I do this. That's awesome because
I did watch a lot of the a lot of
YouTube videos of the participation, and it just looks like
so much fun.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
So what's interesting about this is that audience participation and
everything that kind of you that you would experience when
you went to a Rocky Horror Picture Show live screening
today just kind of happened organically. Little bit by little bit,
people around the country and around the world started kind
of contributing, and those ideas would just spread and burgeon
(26:29):
and become part of the Rocky Horror Picture Show experience.
And the whole thing started because the Waverly showed this
this movie enough times and the manager would get the
crowd like ready for it by playing the soundtrack to
the stage show. So by the time people had come
a few times to see the movie, they had memorized
(26:51):
the lyrics generally because they're pretty catchy lyrics, and that
kind of created like this idea of people who really
kind of knew this movie and could sing along and
talk along and just they just kind of absorbed it
into their cells.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
Yeah, so people are singing the song during the run
up to the showing of the film. And by the way,
big thanks to Dave got a lot of this stuff,
and we got a lot of our extra stuff from
the official Rocky Horror Picture Show fansite Rocky Horror dot
com founded by Salpiro. Just a wealth of information and
a love letter to the film. It's a fun website,
(27:30):
but they're pre showing it. They're singing these songs. And then,
according to the legend, on Labor Day of nineteen seventy six,
Labor Day weekend, there was a Staten Island kindergarten teacher
named I guess it's Louis or Lewis Ferreese. And this
person was the first person, as far as the legend goes,
to yell something back at the screen when something happened
(27:52):
on the screen, And that was when Susan Sarandon gets
out in the rain at the beginning of the film,
puts a newspaper over her head to act as an umbrella,
and supposedly he yelled out by an umbrella, you cheap expletive,
and supposedly that started the callouts.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Yeah, and you can actually if you're watching the movie,
you don't even have to have gone to a live showing.
You can pick out the exact moment. Like the people
who made this movie were knew enough to make a movie,
but they also didn't know enough to make a movie
that like, you know, moved along really quickly. There's this
(28:31):
moment where you're watching Brad and Janet get out of
the car and then walk around the car, just stuff
that an editor normally would cut out. And so I
just the fact that that was left in and triggered
that guy to say that it's almost like the movie
they encouraged it itself. I just think that's so fascinating.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
Yeah, it just definitely seems like a movie where just
fate had so many little hands in it, if you
believe that kind of thing. So people started dressing up
a little more and more, and this was mainly in
the lead up to Halloween nineteen seventy six. Then Halloween
came and went and people were still dressing up, and
(29:11):
people started bringing props. I think the original prop was
they would tear up their programs to use this confetti
in the wedding scene, and then they were like, why
don't we just bring rice? And then all of a
sudden they were bringing all kinds of props to use
during the film. So now you have people singing along,
you have people in costume, people shouting back at the
(29:32):
screen at various well timed points, and then you have
these props.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Right, and all of this is happening mostly at the
Waverley Theater, but there's theaters in other cities that are
showing the movie as well, And so somebody from New
York might go see a midnight showing in San Francisco,
and all of a sudden, all the stuff that they've
been developing in New York, this one New Yorker is
just schooling the San Francisco Rocky horror fans. And it
(29:59):
just spread very quickly like that, I mean like really quickly,
and again, like I was saying earlier, it just became
this cohesive whole that now if you go to one
of these shows, like, this is what's going to happen.
These are the props at these certain times, and all
of it just happened organically.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
Yeah, which is really remarkable in a pre internet age. Yeah,
that this can spread through word of mouth like that strongly,
But that's exactly what happened. And then so you've got
all these people dressed up, you have people knowing all
these songs and the movie by heart basically, and apparently
in the balconies of some of these theaters, people would
(30:38):
sort of be acting out the movie and then they
were like, why don't we just go down front under
the screen, or a lot of times there's a stage
under the screen in front of the screen, and let's
just do it down there. And then the literal re
enactment of the full film with full cast was born
via something that was dubbed shadow casting.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
Yeah, I mean, like beat for beat, there are people
acting out the movie in front of the movie screen.
That is like the just now of going to see
Rocky Horror Picture Show in the theater. And apparently Michael
Wolfson is credited for coming up with the Rocky Horror
Review the first organized shadow cast back in nineteen seventy
(31:21):
six seventy seven, and so he may have been the
person who thought of this at least putting it on
stage in front of the screen. But I mean it's
not just people going in their street clothes like acting
this out. Like people are in full costume, full makeup.
I think that depending on riffraff changes costumes. So some
(31:43):
people come as igor riffraff, other people come as sci
fi riffraff, right, so they'll be like they'll alternate who's
doing what depending on the scene. And by the way,
there is a sci fi riffraff statue in Richard O'Brien's
hometown in New Zealand. Oh wow, it's pretty cool looking too.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
I'm curious how the hierarchy of this because it's obviously
all pre cast for the shadow cast. Like I don't
think I could just show up as a virgin dressed
like Brad and be like I want to be Brad tonight.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Yeah, I don't know. I have no idea. That's a
fascinating question, Like how how does that evolve? Like in
a local, local place, like clearly in Atlanta it's organized.
There's like a group that does it. But I mean, like,
how do you how do you join that group? I
don't know.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
I guess you know, you get on their mailing list,
you should, you show up at their meetings, right, and
you start agitating for a role.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
Man, I foresee Chuck's future here. Oh that the good?
Speaker 1 (32:48):
And of course it too. Uh So Richard O'Brien gets
wind of this in the seventies, that what's going on,
and it's just obviously as you would expect, completely knocked
out and flattered. And it was like, you know, this
movie has it all. It's fun, it's campy. You got
the audience up there, you've got the movie playing, you've
(33:08):
got these people acting it out I'm three for three
and not in a haughty way, but just super proud
I think. And then shadow casting spread. There's all kinds
of midnight movies now where people shadow cast, and one
that is a great one to check out if you
ever can, and very heavily influenced music wise too, I
think is Head Big and The Angry Inch.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
Yeah. They also do Clue apparently, which is another Tim
Curry great film.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
Oh god, it's so good.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
So if you go, like we said, you are a virgin,
and at the very beginning of the show, somebody will
come out with a microphone and get everybody pumped up
and ask the virgins to all stand up, and once
you stand up, people around you will probably put a
V on your forehead with lipstick. That's the first thing
that's probably going to happen to you. I love it.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
That's the worst thing that's going to happen. Yeah, just
say yes is what I recommend.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
Yeah. So, yeah, that's a great way to put it, Chuck.
The thing to remember throughout all this is Dave puts
it really really well. They're not trying to scare you away.
They want you to come back again. This is just
part of like this ritual, this process that's developed over
the decades, and there's some things that you can expect
(34:25):
and can prepare yourself ahead of time. There's tons of
off color jokes, mostly sex jokes. They're almost exclusively sex jokes,
sophomoor sex jokes. You can't expect to hear the movie.
You're not going to sit down and watch a movie.
That's not what you're going to do. It reminds me
of remember I can't remember what concert it was on
(34:49):
The Simpsons, but everybody else is standing up and auto
sitting down. You know the rocker bus driver, Oh yeah, yeah,
and he goes sit down, sit down. You're ruining it
for the rest of us. I can just imagine somebody
going to a midnight screening of Rocky Horror Picture Show
and just expecting to sit there and watch the movie.
You know.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
Yeah. I mean, if you have hang ups and if
you're maybe a little prude about things like this may
not be the experience for you because there will be
people in various states of undress, like you mentioned, tons
of body body sex jokes, and it's just a sort
of a raucous good time. But again, my recommendation this
(35:29):
is what I'm gonna do is just go and say
yes to everything. If you're a virgin, they may drag
you up there and teach you the time warp during
that point in the movie. You might get sprayed when
it's the rain. I mean, I think everyone kind of
gets sprayed when it rains.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
I think they tend to aim for the virgins.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
Yeah, but just again, if you're not up for sort
of a fun, interactive multi media experience, then maybe just
don't go right.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
Yeah, and if you are a prude, this is your
big chance to break out of your shell. Yeah, totally, So, Chuck,
I say we take another break and we'll come back
with more on the Rocky Horror Picture Show stoft We Josh,
(36:40):
we should probably say we've been using some antiquated terms
for transgender people, but it's because it's part of the movie. Yeah,
And I think the movie is so iconic and so
in favor of gender fluidity. And this is decades before
where we are today, when gender fluidity has really broken out,
and I mean it's basically become mainstream in a lot
(37:02):
of ways. This is forty five, almost fifty years before, right, Yeah,
So I think that the popularity and the iconicness of
the movie has actually kind of given it a pass
that no one's offended by the use of transvestite or
(37:25):
transsexual in the context of that movie.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
Yeah, I think everyone understands these were the terms of
the time. When they did the remake with Laverne Cox,
who is a new Laverne Cox from Orange Ise and
New Black, but a great transgender actress to play Frankenfurter,
I think she was even like, oh, you know, should
we update this a little bit, and then finally decided no,
the song is so iconic. These were the terms of
(37:50):
the day. And again, it's a it is a blatant
love letter. And I believe Richard O'Brien identifies as trans
if I'm not mistaken. So I mean it's it is
for this group of people, this group of people who
felt like they were outsiders, who maybe didn't belong in
(38:11):
mainstream society. And these are the people who got dressed
up and who went down there and were so creative
and sort of building this culture around it like it
is a very and always has been a very safe
space for that to occur. And so it's just a
great movie for a lot of reasons and that's certainly
one of them.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
Yeah, I can't imagine how many kids in like Indiana
and Iowa and Kansas and Georgia were just had the
opportunity to find themselves when they found like midnight showings
of Rocky Horror Picture Show and like the people who
were there that were like them, that were and this
was the only place in their life that they could
go and just be themselves like that. It's really sad
(38:53):
to think of, but it's also really heartening to think
that they finally did find that place, you know.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
Absolutely, and you know what it did was it was
like it created an excuse to put on the corset
and the high heels if you really need an excuse,
but if you were someone struggling with you know, in
the nineteen seventies, especially with your gender fluidity, and like
(39:20):
just to have a reason like no mom and dad,
like it's a movie thing, you wear these costumes and
like it gave them a reason to actually go and
be themselves. And Tim Curry over the years and Richard
O'Brien had both received you know, just hundreds and thousands
of letters and shout outs from people that said, you know,
that confirm all of this, they said, like I was
(39:41):
able to be myself and I was able to come
out because of you and because of this film and
what it did. So it's been a really sort of
heartwarming thing I think for the for the creators and
the actors.
Speaker 2 (39:53):
Yeah, no, for sure. And I again, one of the
other reasons that it gets to pass is because that
show is so reaffirming that one of Tim Curry's lines
is actually in one of the songs is don't dream
it be it, and people just latch onto that because
if you just stop and think about what it's saying,
(40:14):
like that's that's kind of all you need to know.
It's almost like the campy version of Yoda's there do
or do not? There is no try kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
You know, if you build it, they will come. There
are all sorts of classic movie lines.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
There are, and that is one of them. For sure.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
No, it is a super empowering statement, and you know,
it's the kind of thing where I don't think Richard
O'Brien really maybe thought about that specific line too much
at the time, but it ends up having so much
meaning later on. And you know, kind of a fun
side story that we didn't get to earlier, but Tim
Curry lived near the Waverley in Greenwich Village in New
(40:52):
York when this is going on, and apparently wanted to
go and like make an appearance and just knock everyone
socks off. Yeah, and called ahead to the theater even
showed up. They let him in, and then I guess
it was a couple of it sounds like a couple
of rogue theater attendants that hadn't let him in. We're like, no,
(41:13):
this guy's a fake, Like, let's get him out of here,
and they literally threw Tim Curry out.
Speaker 2 (41:19):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
He gets incensed, gets his passport and shows them, and
I think it was like the manager or somebody who
had the authority to let him back in was like,
I'm so sorry you come back in, and he was like,
I wouldn't dream of it, and he left.
Speaker 2 (41:31):
Oh really, yes, Wow, that's how you show him, Curry.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
I got so He's like, I've got a kitten to
hold in Los Angeles.
Speaker 2 (41:40):
That's right. There's some other pretty neat little things about
the movie too. One of the ones that I love
is Easter eggs. There are actual Easter eggs hidden in
the movie unintentionally because apparently they had an Easter egg
hunt on the set and they didn't find them all.
(42:01):
So if you really know what to look for, I
didn't see him, but you can find three different Easter
eggs throughout the movie. And that's not actually the term
or where the term Easter egg comes from. Right, Strangely enough,
apparently that was from an Atari game developer from nineteen eighty.
That's who really coined that term and where it came
(42:22):
into use from.
Speaker 1 (42:23):
I think, if I'm not mistaken from our Nintendo episode,
that was Warren Robinette, who wrote the game Adventure and
that had the first Easter Egg.
Speaker 2 (42:32):
Oh is that right? I'm pretty sure I saw a
guy named Steve Wright. Oh really yeah, coined the term. Yeah,
oh okay, I think the first Easter Egg was an
adventure though, But maybe I got to coin the I gotcha,
I got you? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (42:46):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (42:47):
Yeah? What else?
Speaker 1 (42:48):
Chuck Well, Susan Sarandon, who was They were all very young,
They're on their sort of late twenties, early thirties when
they were making this. She got pneumonia not too long
after she got there. And they shot this movie at
a real old English castle named Oakley Court, which is
now a luxury hotel, even though I think at the
(43:09):
time it was falling apart such that the owners wanted
to raise the place. So they shoot it in this legit,
drafty old castle. She gets there, she's got pneumonia. She's
half undressed for half the movie. There's a scene in
a swimming pool. She's freezing to death and feverish, you know,
those cold chills, And apparently just had a pretty rough
(43:29):
go but was like game through all of it.
Speaker 2 (43:32):
Well even worse, and I saw this confirmed by her.
She's like, you have to get me some heated place
to be sick in between takes. So they gave her
a trailer and it did in fact have heat, there
were space heaters in it, but they ended up burning
the trailer down. It was that kind of shoot.
Speaker 1 (43:53):
That's amazing. Another bit of trivia that all rocky horror
fans know. But those disembodied lips at the beginning where
the lips of Patricia Quinn, who played Magenta and Usharette,
but and signed on with the idea that she was
going to sing that song, and she said she loved it.
I think she said it was like the most beautiful
song she'd ever heard at the time. But when it
(44:15):
came time to actually sing the song, Richard O'Brien sang it,
and Patricia Quinn, I think, somewhat disappointedly lip synced it.
Speaker 2 (44:25):
She was really mad about that. She had basically joined
the cast originally for the stage show because of that song,
and so she thought she would have the opportunity to
do it in the movie, and I guess he had
her sing, and she didn't find out until the movie
was released, till she saw it that she wasn't the
(44:46):
one who was singing it at the beginning. Not cool, no,
but I think it was a good move because if
you listened, I don't think it would be the same
with her singing.
Speaker 1 (44:56):
Yeah, And I think it definitely like you said with
meat Loaf, was he had been in Hair right before this.
He had a duo album with this woman, and he
was sort of around, but he definitely was not a
big star at all. And Rocky Horror his role as Eddie,
and especially the great great song Hotpituity Bless My Soul,
(45:19):
such a good song. I think people saw that and
they were like, there's something to this guy.
Speaker 2 (45:24):
Yeah, for sure, because he plays the part really really well.
I mean, that does a great job. There's a lot
of lore around it too, that those people that the
producers offered a bigger budget to Richard O'Brien and Jim
Sharmon to make the movie. Another thing, too, Chuck, that
I found fascinating. You mentioned before that the producers had
(45:45):
wanted to kind of stack the film version with like
rock stars. Yeah, there's tons of legends about who those were. Chaer,
David Bowie, Mick Jagger as doctor Frank Nfer.
Speaker 1 (45:56):
It would have been pretty good actually, yeah. But yeah,
he's the only person that could see doing justice to
that role. Let me just say that, I'm not saying
better than Tim.
Speaker 2 (46:06):
Curry, but it'd be fascinating to go see for sure. Yeah.
So the one that does seem to be actually legitimate
that the producers actually did float was Elvis as Eddie,
replacing meat Loaf with.
Speaker 1 (46:19):
Elvis seventy six Elvis. Wow, Yeah, that was an Eddie end.
Speaker 2 (46:24):
Yeah, it was basically it would be a cool cameo
for him.
Speaker 1 (46:29):
That would have been. Oh man, I'm just trying to
wrap my head around what that would have been like.
I mean, he would have been great in that role
and singing that number. But can you imagine what kind
of like upheaval that would have thrown that production into.
Speaker 2 (46:43):
Oh yeah, I mean Elvison completely imbalanced the movie too.
Speaker 1 (46:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:50):
You know, you've got all these people who are doing
this thing because they love it. And there's Elvis too,
you know, yeah, like Vegas Elvis. Yeah, exactly did you
see that movie yet? Delvis movieh No, another bos Lerman one. Yeah, No,
I haven't seen it.
Speaker 1 (47:07):
It's we're seeing it's it was. I think I might
have even mentioned it before. It's a bit much, but
the actor does such a great job in recreating those performances.
It's it's worth it for that.
Speaker 2 (47:17):
There's also a little known sequel, the Rocky Horror Picture Show.
I did not know this until a couple of days ago.
Speaker 1 (47:24):
Yeah, I knew about it. I've never seen it.
Speaker 2 (47:27):
It's called Shock Treatment, right, Yeah, and it was sort
of a loose sequel.
Speaker 1 (47:33):
Did not catch on obviously like Rocky Horror did at all.
It was it was basically a big flop. Yeah. I
just remember seeing when I worked at the video store
an Athens at Vision Video. I remember seeing the cover
of Shock Treatment and kind of was like, what is
this even and then found out later that it was
a sequel.
Speaker 2 (47:53):
Gotcha you got anything else?
Speaker 1 (47:56):
I got nothing else. I'm gonna go. I encourage everyone
else to go that. Maybe they'd be fun to get
some stuff. You should know local listeners to all go
on a certain night.
Speaker 2 (48:05):
That's a great idea. Also, if you want to find
you know where you can see one by your house.
The Rocky Horror site rocky horror dot com actually has
a pretty good list around the country and I think
around the world too, because they do it in England.
But I've heard they are way more reserved than one
(48:27):
you would go to in America.
Speaker 1 (48:30):
Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 2 (48:32):
So that's it for Rocky Horror Picture Show. I hope
you enjoyed it. Hope it was worth it. Stuff you
should know. Army, thanks for the idea. And since I
said thanks for the idea, it's time for listener mail.
Speaker 1 (48:46):
Yeah. Before we get into that, though, we always like
to give our end of the year well wishings yea
to everyone who got us through another year. And I
believe your lovely wife has a birthday coming up.
Speaker 2 (48:58):
Too, right, Yeah, when this comes out, it'll be right
around Umi's birthday. Happy birthday and really coolly in real
time it's right around Emily's birthday, So happy birthday Emily too.
Speaker 1 (49:09):
That's right, her birthday is in a few days. Yeah,
so thanks everyone. You know, it's been a rough few years,
but I think twenty twenty two shone a little light
on us all and we hope that continues. And thanks
for hanging in there and letting us keep our jobs again.
Speaker 2 (49:24):
Yeah, well, said Chuck.
Speaker 1 (49:26):
You could all fire us.
Speaker 2 (49:27):
Please don't, though, I have to do.
Speaker 1 (49:29):
Stop listening and we're gone.
Speaker 2 (49:31):
You should stop putting ideas in people's heads.
Speaker 1 (49:34):
Agreed.
Speaker 2 (49:35):
Yeah, well, from us and from Jerry and all of
the gang who work on stuff, you should know. Happy
New Year everybody.
Speaker 1 (49:43):
All right, so we will do a listener mail from
the Shakespeare episode about whether Shakespeare really wrote all that stuff?
Speaker 2 (49:51):
That is maybe one of that's my new favorite episode.
Oh yeah, I loved that episode. I thought it was
so fascinating. It was just a really good episode.
Speaker 1 (50:01):
Awesome. I love that. Hey, guys enjoyed the podcast. I
have to admit I am an ox Fordian believer that
the seventeenth Earl of Oxford was the real Shakespeare.
Speaker 2 (50:10):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (50:11):
Many facts about the Earl's life and its reflection in
the plays are very convincing, but I also was intrigued
by the Earl's own family crest being a lion brandishing
a spear. The history of the Earl being a part
of the Elizabethan court life, as well as his travels
to Italy and his family life mirror so much in
the plays. I had the bad form when visiting Stratford
upon Avon, the Shakespeare family home there, having a discussion
(50:34):
with another visitor about Edward de Vere possibly being the
true Shakespeare, and the tour guide was rushing us out. Wow,
thanks for the fun discussion. That is from Dana B. Goward.
Speaker 2 (50:47):
Dana got booted from Stratford upon Avon. I love it.
Run out of town. I could see that being a
bad place to mention that.
Speaker 1 (50:55):
Yeah, I was hoping we would hear from some oxfordy instead.
Speaker 2 (50:58):
Yeah. Thanks a lot, Data, Thanks for getting in touch,
and if you want to be like Dana everybody you
can get in touch with us as well. Send us
an email to Stuff podcast at iHeartRadio dot com.
Speaker 1 (51:13):
Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For
more podcasts Myheart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,
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