March 20, 2017 • 38 mins
Bold thinkers. Big Experience. Radically Unfiltered Stories and Tips. In celebration of International Women's Day, iHeartMedia’s CMO, Gayle Troberman assembled female powerhouses Val DiFebo (CEO, Deutsch NY), Lori Feldman (EVP, Brand Partnerships, Warner Brothers Records) and Tiffany Rolfe (CCO, co:collective) for an intimate and honest conversation on succeeding by “doing you.”
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:12):
That's how you learned. You just had to not die.
I showed up and I just felt whether I succeeded
or failed, it was based on me, not whether I
was a woman. So it's a podcast. Maybe you've never
done that. It'll be fine, what could go wrong? Welcome
to Tagline. Pour a cocktail and join us for inspired
conversations with the best storytellers, culture makers, and creators, presented
(00:35):
by our friends at Bullet Frontier Whiskey. Please drink responsibly,
do stuff, and don't wait. Go for it like go
for it today. Tagline is produced by I Heart Radio
and partnership with Advertising Age. Welcome to this very special
episode of Tagline. I'm Gayle Treberman, CMO of I Heart Media,
and today we've assembled an awesome group of kick ass
(00:59):
women in advertising, music, entertainment, media and all things creative.
And we're going to talk about the very simple yet
insanely complicated topic of women and creativity. Alright, should we
get started? Let's get started? All right, let's do it
so with us. Today we have Val de Fibo, CEO
(01:20):
of Deutsch New York, vows a rare breed in the
advertising business. She's actually been at Deutsche for twenty five
years and CEO for eight of those years. That is
longevity amazing. We're gonna talk about what it takes to
thrive in the ad business. I'm also happy to welcome
Laurie Feldman, e VP of Strategic Marketing at Warner Brothers Records,
(01:45):
and Lori's the mastermind behind pairing the label's biggest stars,
people like Michael Boublay, Gary Clark Jr. Andrew Day, Lucas Graham,
and on and on and on with some of the
most amazing brands to create content and mark kidding and
partnerships that drive results in new and innovative entertaining ways.
She's worked with brands like City Bank, Chrysler, Pepsi, and
(02:08):
many many more. And also we have the fabulous Tiffany Rolf.
Tiffany's a partner and Chief Creative Officer at CO Collective.
She leads their content and community practice and she's been
doing some crazy good work lately for clients like a
c LU, YouTube, IBM, Puma, and on and on and
on and on. So these are women who know a
(02:28):
thing or two about working hard, making great creative products, innovating,
revolutionizing and surviving day to day kind of came to
my mind when we're thinking about this episode. Do you
think of the advertising industry as still a male dominated
culture or do you think that's changing. You know, in
my little bubble, it has not been that way, and
(02:50):
so I've been extremely lucky that there have been a
lot of powerful, wonderful women, not only in the agency,
even on the client side. So we've been that's a compliment,
right that some I was a client, you were, and
and it made a difference. I think when I leave
this little bubble that I'm in and I see other agencies,
and when I go to bigger meetings where there are
(03:11):
other CEO s, I am definitely still the minority in
the room. Um, And I would say even on the
client side, there are not a lot of women in
the very senior positions. There are women in marketing departments,
but not in the very senior position. It still is tough.
I think the statistics would bear that out, that some
women are still underrepresented, particularly as you get up to
(03:32):
the C suite in both partly client side and agency side.
And Laurie, what do you think about that in the
music business, also predominantly male dominated culture, still predominantly male,
particularly up in C suites, for sure. But there's some
absolutely fantastic, tremendous, incredible women in the music business, both
on the business side and on the artist side. I
(03:53):
don't want to name an yet, but I've had lots
of women that I looked up to sought advice from.
I never really had a mentor like that, but people
have arrived in my life at the right time, women
in this business who are just extraordinary, and I don't
think there's such a shortage of them. People want a
fresh perspective on their business, They want to relate to
(04:14):
women in new ways. Women are consumers and the bigger
of the consumers, and so it feels like there's been
a good ask and I think the industry has been
catching up, but I think it's opened up for new
sorts of voices and and even as I look at
how can I help women become leaders, I have to
look beyond the way I lead, And maybe the way
I lead isn't the best model for every woman out there,
(04:36):
you know. I mean, it's a way I look at
amazing talented women on my team, and maybe they're not
as vocal or tough, or they don't cause as much
as I do, or whatever it is that they have
this kind of quiet power. We have to all allow
for different kinds of leadership to happen. And that's how
I think you get to great work and work that
appeals to a broader set of people and not just
(04:58):
creating our own bubbles. As we've seen, we've gotten ourselves
into trouble for and I think we're now at a
time where we're recognizing the need for diversity of all kinds.
It's really hard to look at a leader who's different
from the way you are and the way you've succeeded.
Because many times I'll think when I look at someone,
they're never going to survive in that room, you know,
(05:18):
And how can I back them up so that when
I help them helmets everyone. You know, you got to
speak up otherwise they'll eat you alive. And I think
that's important to make sure that you give people at
least what you know about what it takes to be successful.
Maybe things will change, but for right now, I think
if you're a silent leader, it's very hard in a
(05:39):
room full of alligators. The one question that occurred to
me is, you guys were talking. We were all talking
about the risks and how hard it is, and how
the responsibility is on us to nurture to higher right
to mentor. I wonder if in the Men's episode, they'd
start here, never achievements, to tell me about your rewards.
(06:03):
I'm just kidding. I mean I remember being, you know,
starting at Crispin out of school, and I was thrown
into like an edit, thrown into a meeting, and like
that's how you learned. You like, you just had to
not die, you know, And and I think it kind
of worked. But the way that young people expect a
leader to relate to them, and they kind of feedback
(06:23):
that you need to give along the way the importance
that is already kind of baked in, which you kind
of want to say, how do they earn this? But
I also want to learn from them. They're very confident,
they know what they want. If what they're doing they
don't think matters, then they're out of there and there's
something for us to learn I think from that as well.
And amazing I think talent there, but you just have
(06:43):
to figure out a new way to sort of harness
that and actually listen and learn and kind of evolve
as well. Because they're the ones living in the world
and we're just sort of like now happy to be
a part of it. And you know, it's true, there
is a different workforce. Do you think the workforce is
more cool as you look at that next generation coming up,
either statistically or power wise or it's funny, I and
(07:07):
then a different place. I went from a place that
was I would say, more male dominated. I'm now at
a place where, like the last two pitches I was
in were like all women. We have Rosemary, who's our
CEO as a woman, and I'd have a pretty female
team to the point where everyone's we hire too many women.
There's more of an equality there in terms of people
coming up with the roles that they play. And I
haven't found that that sort of consistent all male within
(07:29):
the creative community at least feels like the same within
the younger generation of people. And I don't know what
really is sparking that, but hopefully it's us that have
been here for a while creating better environments for that.
It's interesting, though, to be in a time where there
are so many initiatives around women, Like it was going
to mention that it almost is like I think some
of the younger women at my company kind of hate
(07:51):
that a bit as well, right, that there has to
be this sort of initiative, because in their minds are like,
I'm here, I'm confident, I'm doing my thing, and it's
almost for the older gen ration of people that still
sort of need that push. I don't know what I
always feel about it. Sometimes I think it was necessary,
but at the same time, I wish we didn't have
to make such a big deal out of it. I
wish that it just sort of naturally happened, rather than
(08:13):
being forced to be like half of your directors have
to be this way and half of your board members
have to be this way. Ideally, people are getting chosen
for their right skills and the right reasons, and so
you don't want to feel like you were put into
a place because you were meeting or something. Um. But
I guess it was kind of a necessary step because
it wasn't happening on its own. I think ideally will
(08:34):
get to a place, and I think with the younger
generation they're already sort of moving that way where that
will dissolve and it will just be the norm, hopefully.
I honestly felt like when I was getting started. I
didn't even understand that there was this issue with women
in the workforce. I've never been brought up to think that.
My father always told me I could achieve whatever I
wanted in my life, Like, I never understood that there
was perhaps any boundary or barrier at all. I showed
(08:59):
up and I just felt whether I succeeded or failed
it was based on me, not whether I was a woman.
Strangely enough, now my entire team is women, and I
didn't set out for it to be that way. It
just sort of happened, and we're fantastic, happy, highly achieving, emotive,
awesome team. But I was meeting with client the other
(09:20):
day and I happened to mention to her that my
whole teams women, and she looked at me and she's like,
you need to diverse five team because you're not speaking
to just women, you know. And it real It's really
stuck in my head, and I'm trying to figure that out.
Pretty we'll be here in five years and it will
be like all men going like, how can we get
more men in the workplace. But I do think the millennials,
the younger people at work. I sort of look at
(09:41):
them as I felt about myself, which was they're not
thinking that there's some barrier to their success. I think
that that's sort of a learned thing as you move
up in the world, whatever you choose. And all of
this effort that's being put forth in a very public
way now to support women in the workplace, I think
is definitely making the younger women at work question what's
(10:04):
going on here? You know what's necessary? I didn't realize. Yeah,
So for us, the millennials definitely need want more feedback
more quickly. They want to know when they do a
great job, they want to know when they sucked at something.
And that's good. I think it's great. And it's teaching
leaders like us to give feedback more often. And that's
(10:26):
males and females. They definitely similar. They want they want
to know how they're doing all the time. But I
think what that's also done is it's given the females
a chance to come in and say, what do I
have to do to be you? That's the question I
get most often, what do I have to do? And
I'm like, I, actually it's the kind of cool group.
(10:51):
But like Laurie, I showed up every day, did my work.
My dad said you could be whatever you want to be,
and I believed him. So I worked hard and I
got promoted. I was we lucky that I had a
boss that was very supportive of that. I'm not sure
all women do. And when they ask that question, they
asked specifically, do I have to not have kids? Should
I not take time off? Oh? Yeah, it's definitely still
(11:13):
a thing. I mean seriously, that's like, I think the
bigger issue. It's almost beyond sort of gender, and it's
really like our industry. I waited a long time to
have kids. I have kids now, but it's not easy,
and sometimes I ask myself, what I want this for
someone else. I've had some other women friends that are
in this and creatives that have chosen not to a
lot of the most senior women I know that I'm
great friends with have had to make choices to sacrifice that.
(11:36):
How do we set a better example, because I don't
think that you should have to make those sacrifices. How
for men and women, can we make this industry that
we're in a place where you don't feel like you
can't be in it because you're a woman, and that
means you can't have kids, or even a man can't
have as much of a rule in his children's life.
It's expected to travel a certain amount of time, and
(11:57):
so beyond gender, I think the bigger is you is
how do we actually create an environment where people want
to work. These young people want to do stuff that matters.
They aren't going to sacrifice their lives for their work,
like in the same way that maybe we did as
we started out. And if we can't create an environment
where they can have all of those things, then we
will lose that talent, and we already are. And so
(12:20):
I think it goes beyond sort of the man woman thing. Yeah,
you know, it's funny. When I had my son, Brian,
He's only twelve and I've been doing this a long time.
So when I have my son, I was kind of older,
and people at work said it was the best thing
that you could have done, because it said to us
that we could balance and still be achievers. And I
still struggle with that. You know, I'm not balance. I
(12:41):
don't know what that means, juggling. I don't know what that.
All I know is I'm constantly making choices, and I
hope I make good ones every day. But It was
a good thing for all of our employees that I
could show them that I could go to a doctor's
appointment with my son or go to a basketball game
and still get my job done. You know, you can't
not do your job, but you've got to be able
to to take the parts of your life that are
(13:02):
important to you. It's not just about kids. I had
a funny learning moment around that where I used to
think I had to be there late night with everyone
and I had to work the long hours and be
on email at three am, which I sometimes still am.
Let's just say, but I had someone come to me
and say, I don't want you to check your email.
I don't want you to be here late with me,
like I want to know that at some point when
i'm you, I'm not doing that, so please don't. And
(13:23):
that was a realization where I was like, wait a minute,
I thought that was being supportive, when in fact, I'm
not setting a great example for where they might want
to be. And it was a big realization, Wait, I
need to care for myself too, because I'm not creating
a vision of a leader that they want to be
as senior women and your businesses and your industries, like,
do you feel pressured to be role models? Absolutely? Yeah,
(13:47):
the forevere for the kids, employees, you know, for sort
of everyone around. I feel like we set an example
every day as senior members of our companies, as parents,
as women, as creative individuals, and people are watching and
we cannot forget. So if you every choice, we make
even more. There's microphones and care and I think people
(14:11):
when they look up to you and you're a leader,
they model your behavior. So whether or not you see
yourself as a role model, they are. If you blow
your stack at someone and you start cursing in the
hallway and when someone does something wrong, they think that's okay,
so then they do it. So I think even if
you don't see yourself as a role model, you better
know that people are watching you for how to behave.
And that goes for at home, and then it goes
(14:33):
for at work too and on boards that you sit on.
And I think it's important to be real about what
it takes that it isn't easy always. I was telling
the story like there was one moment not easy. You
make it look awesome. I need to post more terrible
photos on my social feeds. There was one moment where
I was like in my closet hiding from my children
on like a hang out, and I was trying to
(14:54):
light it like sit away where it looked like I
was in a normal space, not hiding in my closet,
and my door opening, my one year old walked in,
and I'm like, the video just went out. I think
it's important to show the struggles as well, and then
how do you create conditions where those struggles aren't happening
too frequently? Right? I gave a speech at this young
female entrepreneurs event and I realized I was like going
(15:16):
on third Everything I thought would be interesting and useful
for these women is so not. And I just talked
about like every time I like made a mistake and
stumbled into everything, and I realized my entire career had
really been stumbling. And some woman came up to me
after and she was lovely, and she was in her
early twenties and she had her own startup, and she
came up to me and she said, oh my god,
(15:37):
that was so amazing. She's like, after listening to you,
I am going to go home and I have seven
life plans. I'm going to rip up two of them.
Oh my god, this is a new world. I know
it really isn't general. I know I'm still working one.
(15:58):
I think we're going to take a little cocktail break.
Time to take a break with our friends from Bullet
Frontier Whiskey, please drink responsibly. Our friends from Diagio have
an amazing mixologist that is coming in to greet us.
Her name is Jessica Gonzalez. She is breaking the mold
in her own field as one of the leading female mixologists.
(16:22):
She pushes the creative frontier every day. And I'd like
to welcome her here and maybe ask Jessica when she
gets us all poured what she has cooked up for
us today. Jessica has worked at some of the most
renowned establishments in New York City. She's received a James
Beard Award, which is crazy impressive, and multiple nominations from
(16:43):
Tales of the Cocktail. So I am excited to hear
what you've got here for us, A better job than
I do, Jessica, Hi, So yeah, So I decided to
do something a little bit inspired by Save Mother Earth.
So I used camemeal, you know, the earth Flower, and
I really want to do something that was a little
bit against the idea of the feminine cocktail. I love
(17:06):
that it's not painted, taste sweet. It's about enjoying whiskey.
There's no foam. There is a simple, like old fashioned variation. Definitely,
it's a spirit forward kind of drank. Something for somebody
who loves bullet. Came meal is like a really nice
sort of cohesive whiskey pairing. What's it like for you
(17:29):
being a female mixologist, you know, tends to be a
fairly male industry, it does. I mean things have really
changed and moved very forward. And to think the past
like ten years and I've been doing this for twenty,
I've seen a real progression and it's actually really refreshing
to see. Do you take a lot of risks, like
do you try things and then say, oh that doesn't work?
(17:49):
But absolutely you have to this cocktown. Now that this
gorgeous ice cube has melted a little is delightful. It's
advertising right now that she's mark did the cocktain, we
understand the thought. Now she's like bullet, she's making friends
(18:10):
on the frontier. Cheers, thank you so uh you know.
I saw this um for International Women's Day, and there
was an agency in sal Pollo that actually released an
(18:32):
app that detects when men interrupt women in a meeting.
It kind of struck me as surprising, like do you
think that's a big issue or is it an issue
maybe we're less aware of than we should be. Apparently
it's quite an issue, and I've actually heard that in Washington.
It's abhorrent. It's constant, and there are women keeping track
(18:53):
in meetings of how often there's also due process and
forget what it's called where you repeat the women in
the room, there's a philosophy where when the woman says
something another woman in the room, if there is when
you're expected to repeat and give credit and just start
to build a bit like almost double up on it.
And that's something that it's starting to be practiced, and
meetings a lot read a lot about that. Yeah, I interrupt,
(19:15):
and I'm trying to be better at it, and I
don't know it's because I had to, like I'm trying
to think all the pusiness together some of those crispin meetings,
and so then I don't know if I'm judged as
interrupting more because a woman. For me, it goes back
to fourth grade and my teacher thought I talked too
much in class and I literally was put on the
other side of the room. I somehow got through the
(19:35):
interruption thing by being worse adrupted. But it's something I
need to work on bad behavior. Is that your advice
to women out there? I think interruptions of problem. I
also think and maybe it's just because there are more
men in the room, generally, they'll repeat what you say
and get credit for the idea that happens. That's why
(19:56):
I called them out on it. And I do thank
you for saying that for me. Again, you said it
slightly differently than I did. I think most people might
let you take credit back. I take credit back. People
will literally be like, oh yeah, John said. I'm like, yeah, yeah, hello,
I said that if we repeated. There was a Black
Mirror episode Black Mirror, and if you watched it, it's
like the worst things that can happen with technology, But
one of them was it recorded and documented like everything
(20:19):
anyone said. But it made you crazy because you could
go back and rewatch things and dwell over them. But
I was like, that would be amazing to be able
to rerecord and see like see I did say at
first and have proof of because I feel like it
does happen a lot. Part of my job as a
creative director is to make other people on my team
feel like things are their ideas. So I tend to
(20:40):
present things like, well, what if we and you also, though,
have to make sure you maintain sort of control over
that idea or then things in the end gettributed back
to your involvement on a project, you know, And so
I think, you know, it's something that we all have
to learn. When I have someone on my team who's brilliant,
but she's super quiet and stuff spoken, I didn't even
realize that that was a thing where you repeat and
(21:02):
I kind of naturally would like stop and be like, wait,
what did you say? And have a repeat it again.
So I think there's some practices that are starting to happen.
And I don't know where that comes from, if it's
just sort of a natural evolution thing that's happened, but
it apparently is a big thing. It's funny Microsoft was
in engineering cultures. They were definitely generally more men in
most rooms than women. It's funny it would happen you'd
(21:25):
say something and then someone else would repeated and it
would get momentum. I always took it as a win.
I'd always be sitting there going, yes, that got her,
that gout through. That's like actually going to impact things,
you know, I think you do as long as there's
a way that doesn't prevent you from becoming the leader.
Let's eventually that matter. I don't mind as much now
because I'm the boss with the creative a young person
(21:45):
in the room. If I'm not listening or you know,
when I was coming up, I didn't get credit for that.
People would think my partner did it. I wouldn't maybe
get promoted, they would be the one put on a project.
So I think it does matter when you are more
junior and when you are sort of established your voice
and your role. At some point, our job as leaders
is to let people's ideas lead wherever they come from.
(22:06):
Just get great work, and it doesn't matter as much.
But I think we have a role to help those
voices get credit and get hurt. It's an interesting business
and a creative side of advertising has so often been
about credit, right who made that? Because there's something at
the end of the day, and I think Tiffany you
said earlier, so many people are touching a piece of
work a campaign and so many different formats. Now that
(22:28):
idea of credit it's harder and harder to find there. Yeah,
there's a balance, like even your clients. You want to
have clients feel like it's their idea or own it,
have ownership over things, but you also don't want to
have so much credit there that they're like, wait, what
did you do here? Why are we paying you? So
there's a balance to going we're adding value, but at
the same time we're collaborative and we're shaping this together,
(22:50):
not being so sort of separate from the idea that
they are confused as to like why you're in the room.
You know, there's a fine balance there, I think with
credit and collaboration that happens. Speaking of do you think
it's easier for women on sort of the client side
of marketing or the agency side? Is there a difference?
We have a couple of and you were one, but
we have a couple of clients whomo. But I think
(23:16):
when the CMO at a client is a female, all
of the females who work for them have an easier
time not not doing their work. They're not getting special treatment.
All those spat trips we were taking exactly, and I
think they can see the path to leadership and so
they act like leaders and so I think that makes
(23:37):
it easier for them. And I think the same thing
happens on the agency side, which is why we see
so few female executives in the c suite. They don't
have role models. If you're not in a company where
a woman has a leadership position, you don't know how
to behave yourself. In our company, I'm fairly outspoken, as
you know, and so it's worked well for me in
that company. I'm not sure that I could work in
(23:59):
another company and be like this and be successful. So
in our company or women know, if I want something,
I'm better say what I want a better say straight.
I better tell the truth. You know. That's how it
works here. I'm not sure that it works someplace else. Yeah,
does to take quite a bit. What isn't isn't going
to be the norm and the politics. Our thing is
(24:19):
tell the truth, tell the truth, just say it like
it is. If you think that's a crappy idea, say
that's a crappy idea, and let's move on and let's
get to a better place. It saves a ton of time.
I think there's like something that happens. Let's say there's
a CMO, there's a male or female. There's often this
weird rumor that happens that's like she only likes men.
So it's like, great, the men don't like me, the
(24:39):
women like who likes me? You know? And I don't
know if that's true or like why that perception is
that the CMO, this female SEMO, she doesn't like she's
threatened by it. There's this weird rumor that you know
is out there. Maybe it's true, but like how do
we as women and leaders break that? And what is that?
Where is that coming from? Because it's like, well, great,
so female leader that can't actually have a female client,
(25:02):
and then if I have a male client he likes
me because of why. So there's just some weirdness that
I think still exists around relationships. And I remember when
I was starting at Crispin and they hired a third female.
They were like, oh, you threat you know, like, but
it's not just you in town anymore. I should be
like worried that she was going to take my job.
(25:25):
That it was like there was this want to create
tension or create a competition around and I'm like, well,
there's like thirty five guys. Aren't you worried? You should
be worried, you know. And so it's funny how, somehow
there's still a little bit of this female female tension
that still gets sparked, and I try to be very
cautious of that and make sure I don't ever give
(25:46):
off that sort of vibe stereotypes. Right, Yeah, our company
is smaller than your guys years but yours. There's a
real sisterhood of women in the company. Definitely trying to
organize around the younger women in the company, very heavily
focused on that. But also we sort of have to
C level jobs. We have a CEO and a CFO.
(26:07):
Those are the only two seas and our CFO as
women and so pretty equal power at the top. And
I think that that's quite an impressive situation that's going
on there. She's the CFO, but she's involved in every
facet of the company and with as many people as
she can be involved with at all times. And it's
probably a very unique situation. But she's been there about
(26:28):
as long as I've been there, so I've not I've
not really seen anything else. We hit on that women
supporting other women, right U. You know, there's already felt like,
you know, there's some wave in this industry for a
lot of women's panels and women's networks and women's dinners
and mentoring programs, and it feels like fairly recently, right
over the last few years, and now there feels like
(26:50):
there's even more energy and momentum on that. I always wonder,
is the Women's Dinner accomplishing anything? Is it moving us forward?
Is it actually creating a silo? Still? Yeah? You know
it's funny. Early in my career there were organizations in
New York for women, and I refused to join them
because I thought, right, I thought, if I joined this organization,
(27:12):
I'm a woman in advertising, I'm not an advertising person.
I've just put another sort of label on myself that
I don't interesting I need. But now I actually feel
like I need to go be part of those organizations
to help the younger women and again to be a
role model. So I've changed my opinion about those things
(27:32):
over the years. But in the early days, I was like,
there's no yeah, and I didn't want to be in
that small sort of made people realize, wait a minute,
you are a woman, even you are, and I'm going
to treat you like one instead of you're doing what
the rest of us are doing. You know, it's funny.
I grew up with three sisters, and a lot of
(27:54):
people say, oh, sisters always fight, and they fight over
clothes and they fight over boys or whatever. We never fought,
So for me, this sisterhood thing is very natural to
prop up the other women and to want to see
them succeed. And I think that that's a very interesting
insight to looking at people and how their family relationships worked,
(28:14):
because people who hate their sisters and arrivals with them
have a tougher time with women at work. And you
look at these less experienced women and you could say,
I see something great there. I'm going to help them.
That's the magic of a great leader. And by the way,
I think you should do the same thing with the men.
Not I'm not saying it's just reached down into the
organization and pick out the women, the gems or the
(28:35):
diamonds and the rough There are men too that we
should be pulling up, and then they will be more
likely to also help women, which we need. We can't
just have women helping women and to do it too.
So if they feel discriminated against or feel like they're
not part of the thing, then when they get to
be in those positions, there yeah backlash against. You know,
(28:57):
every time say you're going to a women's fanel or
women's dinners thing, there's always that well, where's the men's dinner, right,
where's the men's network. I think one of the good
things that comes out of it is it just forces
you to like pause for a minute and go, oh,
let's help some people. Let's pause just in the craze
of the pace we run at and to stop and go, wait,
this is a moment to pause and not go to
(29:17):
dinner to close some business or make some money or
sell an idea, but this is a moment to go
to a dinner and actually think about helping other people.
I do think we're at the cusp of this morphing
into more of a broad based mentoring and an approach
to help. That's interesting because my sort of bosses and
partners that Tie and Rosemary were co CEO's of DWT
(29:39):
and now they're co CEOs here. Rose said, for many
years I would get asked to speak at an innovation
or whatever conference and she would be asked to be
on the women's panel, and just like what we're doing
the same job. These have conversations are important, but it's
also important just to have diversified conversations to gather too,
so you start to learn, I think about different perspectives,
(29:59):
but on the same top, making sure that there are
different voices represented when you're just talking about whatever it is,
rather than them always having to be I think about
women plus you know, ten fifteen, However, many years from now,
I would like for people to say about me, she
was a great leader, not she was a great leader
who was great for women. That would be my job.
(30:21):
So I hope that in doing what we're doing, we're
helping women to become leaders, but we are serving as
leaders for the entire industry. That's at least what I
try to do every day, and I think it's important
because I think that's what leadership is about. Do you
have one piece of advice for women in these industries today, advertising, media, creative, music, entertainment.
(30:44):
I guess I would go back to when I first
started and I was just doing me. You know, do
you be the best you that you can be? Sort
of climbed the mountain as you may. If you're doing
the best that you can do, and you're putting your
best self out there every day, and you're collaborating and
you're doing your job to the best of your ability,
(31:05):
then it will all fall into place and you will
be satisfied in your work, and your place of work
will be satisfied with you if you do you the
best you can. I mean I think I do someone
else try to be like Valves. I remember when I
was learning how to present and young and trying to
(31:25):
really like be something, I thought I had to be someone.
I'm from Oklahoma. I always say I'm a little bit country,
a little bit rock and roll, and to me that
was from who I am as a person. And if
I give a speech, I don't rehearse it in that
same way. I have to be a little bit raw
and rough around the edges. And I think that clearly
then shows people I have a point of view. I
have an approach to things that's unique, and I think
(31:47):
everyone in creative business just wants someone to bring an interesting,
different perspective. Little more Oklahoma, and especially now, a little
bit knowing a little bit of roma is actually serving
you well. Don't try to be this man that you
be yourself, and how do you just strengthen that to
the best that you can? Awesome? Yeah, I agree. I
mean because I'm me every day. If I would just
add to that, I would say, do stuff and don't
(32:10):
wait tomorrow. You can procrastinate and not get stuff produced.
You can not get your ideas out. Go for it.
Like you have an idea, go for it today. Get
the people who are going to support you, who may
think differently than you, who are going to pressure test
your idea, be devil's advocate, but get your dished on,
because that's what you're here to do. Right. We all
(32:30):
do this because we want to make things. We want
to make things happen, and we want to make things,
and so I think just doing it is really important,
and as yourself, not somebody else's version of it, but
your own version of that thing. Yeah, it's true. So
that's the podcast. Maybe you've never done that, it'll be fine.
What could go wrong? I've never done this. Okay, I
(32:51):
think we're doing reasonably well. I congratulate ourselves a job, lady.
It's awesome. We have a lot of radio stations. Anybody
want to give the weather. Yeah, one more question. We
always ask our guests on tagline, what's your tagline? Already
gave mine. Yeah, I didn't even realize. I'm a little
bit country, a little bit rocket. Oh there. I guess
(33:16):
mine is I'm doing me awesome. I guess is mine
must be doing now. I love it. I love it,
and I'm going to do it with bourbon. Thank you, guys.
This was awesome to women, and I thank you. With
(33:37):
an addition to my tagline, here's what I would like
to say. Actually, my tagline is tell it to me straight.
And the reason that I believe that is because I
really want people to be honest all the time, and
it's one of the things that I hold myself too.
I think when you are really you and you let
other people really be them, you get to the truth
(34:00):
and you get to some fantastic work. Hopefully I'll get
to see the podcast soon, all right. Arianna Huffing turn
founder and CEO of Sride Global. The current workplace culture
based on the macho naution that burnout is a sign
of strength and dedication, and as sleep and taking time
(34:20):
to recharge as science of weakness is a huge detrimount
of creativity. When we prioritize our well being, we are
all both women and men, much more able to tap
into our inner source of creativity. Jackline saturned general manager
of Harvest Records and general manager of Caroline and asked
(34:43):
a lot of time why almost all of my staff
as women. Women have a more collaborative spirit. It's less
about oh, this made me look weak if I include
all these people in a meeting, and more about how
I'm going to come with my army to come up
with the most creative, smart strategy imaginable. The music industry
always had women as assistance. They actually called them secretaries
(35:04):
when I first started, So we were the ones that
were writing reports, doing expenses, making reservations, covering shows, booking travel,
attending the events to make sure our boss has got
to the right places. Now it has become a way
of life in the business to be a part of
every aspect. We've always created an atmosphere of being inclusive.
I think it's so important to make everyone feel that
they have in value. That's the spirit that I want
(35:26):
to foster. Shelley zalis Ceo, the female Quotient creator of
the Girl's Lounge. Gender equality is not a female issue.
It's a social and economic issue, and both men and
women are all important. We're all equal, We're just different.
There's masculine and feminine styles of leadership. Masculine in general, linear, analytic, directive, decisive,
(35:51):
feminine qualities of leadership, nurturing, empathetic, innovative, creative, collaborative. Diversity
is not about gender, race, or age. Diversity is about mindset.
So by combining and integrating the masculine and feminine style,
we have our best work. Hey is this Adam Schlachter.
(36:18):
Hey Adam, it's Gail. How are you doing. I'm awesome.
I am calling you from the set of Tagline. Oh cool, Yeah,
where are you in London? You are in London. It's
late there isn't it, But I kind of don't adjust.
So it's whatever time wherever you are. Ah well, it
is time for creativity. We were thinking you would make
(36:40):
an awesome next guest on Tagline, so we're hoping to
tag you in. That would be fantastic. I'm flattered and awesome.
I'm sure you'll have some provocative questions for us on
all things creativity. That happened late night in London, So
we look forward to having you. We should probably let
you try to tend to get some sleep, but we're
(37:01):
it's like to talk creative with you in the in
the near future. That's wonderful, so am I. It's great.
It's all audio in the podcast, so no stylist, no
makeup needed, radio I can relate. We're actually going to
be recording in an upcoming episode at South By Southwest,
and rumor has it you're going to be in Austin,
hoping to hook on that I'm going to be in Austin.
(37:22):
I hate missing a south spot, so I'm very excited
that I'll be there and I'll get to join you guys.
This would be a lot of fun. Yeah, it'll be awesome.
It's a perfect backdrop for a creative conversation. So looking
forward to seeing you awesome. I can't wait, and I've
seen in a few days, I guess yeah, we'll catch
you soon. Thanks Adam. You've been listening to tagline presented
by our friends at Bullet Front to your whiskey at
(37:43):
the Bullet Distilling Company, Louisville, Kentucky. Please drink responsibly. We
want to hear what you thought. Join the discussion on
Twitter now by using the hashtag tagline catch all our
episodes at an i heart radio dot com slash tagline
in the I heart Radio app, or where wherever you
get your podcasts. Audiation M
That's how you learned. You just had to not die.
I showed up and I just felt whether I succeeded
or failed, it was based on me, not whether I
was a woman. So it's a podcast. Maybe you've never
done that. It'll be fine, what could go wrong? Welcome
to Tagline. Pour a cocktail and join us for inspired
conversations with the best storytellers, culture makers, and creators, presented
(00:35):
by our friends at Bullet Frontier Whiskey. Please drink responsibly,
do stuff, and don't wait. Go for it like go
for it today. Tagline is produced by I Heart Radio
and partnership with Advertising Age. Welcome to this very special
episode of Tagline. I'm Gayle Treberman, CMO of I Heart Media,
and today we've assembled an awesome group of kick ass
(00:59):
women in advertising, music, entertainment, media and all things creative.
And we're going to talk about the very simple yet
insanely complicated topic of women and creativity. Alright, should we
get started? Let's get started? All right, let's do it
so with us. Today we have Val de Fibo, CEO
(01:20):
of Deutsch New York, vows a rare breed in the
advertising business. She's actually been at Deutsche for twenty five
years and CEO for eight of those years. That is
longevity amazing. We're gonna talk about what it takes to
thrive in the ad business. I'm also happy to welcome
Laurie Feldman, e VP of Strategic Marketing at Warner Brothers Records,
(01:45):
and Lori's the mastermind behind pairing the label's biggest stars,
people like Michael Boublay, Gary Clark Jr. Andrew Day, Lucas Graham,
and on and on and on with some of the
most amazing brands to create content and mark kidding and
partnerships that drive results in new and innovative entertaining ways.
She's worked with brands like City Bank, Chrysler, Pepsi, and
(02:08):
many many more. And also we have the fabulous Tiffany Rolf.
Tiffany's a partner and Chief Creative Officer at CO Collective.
She leads their content and community practice and she's been
doing some crazy good work lately for clients like a
c LU, YouTube, IBM, Puma, and on and on and
on and on. So these are women who know a
(02:28):
thing or two about working hard, making great creative products, innovating,
revolutionizing and surviving day to day kind of came to
my mind when we're thinking about this episode. Do you
think of the advertising industry as still a male dominated
culture or do you think that's changing. You know, in
my little bubble, it has not been that way, and
(02:50):
so I've been extremely lucky that there have been a
lot of powerful, wonderful women, not only in the agency,
even on the client side. So we've been that's a compliment,
right that some I was a client, you were, and
and it made a difference. I think when I leave
this little bubble that I'm in and I see other agencies,
and when I go to bigger meetings where there are
(03:11):
other CEO s, I am definitely still the minority in
the room. Um, And I would say even on the
client side, there are not a lot of women in
the very senior positions. There are women in marketing departments,
but not in the very senior position. It still is tough.
I think the statistics would bear that out, that some
women are still underrepresented, particularly as you get up to
(03:32):
the C suite in both partly client side and agency side.
And Laurie, what do you think about that in the
music business, also predominantly male dominated culture, still predominantly male,
particularly up in C suites, for sure. But there's some
absolutely fantastic, tremendous, incredible women in the music business, both
on the business side and on the artist side. I
(03:53):
don't want to name an yet, but I've had lots
of women that I looked up to sought advice from.
I never really had a mentor like that, but people
have arrived in my life at the right time, women
in this business who are just extraordinary, and I don't
think there's such a shortage of them. People want a
fresh perspective on their business, They want to relate to
(04:14):
women in new ways. Women are consumers and the bigger
of the consumers, and so it feels like there's been
a good ask and I think the industry has been
catching up, but I think it's opened up for new
sorts of voices and and even as I look at
how can I help women become leaders, I have to
look beyond the way I lead, And maybe the way
I lead isn't the best model for every woman out there,
(04:36):
you know. I mean, it's a way I look at
amazing talented women on my team, and maybe they're not
as vocal or tough, or they don't cause as much
as I do, or whatever it is that they have
this kind of quiet power. We have to all allow
for different kinds of leadership to happen. And that's how
I think you get to great work and work that
appeals to a broader set of people and not just
(04:58):
creating our own bubbles. As we've seen, we've gotten ourselves
into trouble for and I think we're now at a
time where we're recognizing the need for diversity of all kinds.
It's really hard to look at a leader who's different
from the way you are and the way you've succeeded.
Because many times I'll think when I look at someone,
they're never going to survive in that room, you know,
(05:18):
And how can I back them up so that when
I help them helmets everyone. You know, you got to
speak up otherwise they'll eat you alive. And I think
that's important to make sure that you give people at
least what you know about what it takes to be successful.
Maybe things will change, but for right now, I think
if you're a silent leader, it's very hard in a
(05:39):
room full of alligators. The one question that occurred to
me is, you guys were talking. We were all talking
about the risks and how hard it is, and how
the responsibility is on us to nurture to higher right
to mentor. I wonder if in the Men's episode, they'd
start here, never achievements, to tell me about your rewards.
(06:03):
I'm just kidding. I mean I remember being, you know,
starting at Crispin out of school, and I was thrown
into like an edit, thrown into a meeting, and like
that's how you learned. You like, you just had to
not die, you know, And and I think it kind
of worked. But the way that young people expect a
leader to relate to them, and they kind of feedback
(06:23):
that you need to give along the way the importance
that is already kind of baked in, which you kind
of want to say, how do they earn this? But
I also want to learn from them. They're very confident,
they know what they want. If what they're doing they
don't think matters, then they're out of there and there's
something for us to learn I think from that as well.
And amazing I think talent there, but you just have
(06:43):
to figure out a new way to sort of harness
that and actually listen and learn and kind of evolve
as well. Because they're the ones living in the world
and we're just sort of like now happy to be
a part of it. And you know, it's true, there
is a different workforce. Do you think the workforce is
more cool as you look at that next generation coming up,
either statistically or power wise or it's funny, I and
(07:07):
then a different place. I went from a place that
was I would say, more male dominated. I'm now at
a place where, like the last two pitches I was
in were like all women. We have Rosemary, who's our
CEO as a woman, and I'd have a pretty female
team to the point where everyone's we hire too many women.
There's more of an equality there in terms of people
coming up with the roles that they play. And I
haven't found that that sort of consistent all male within
(07:29):
the creative community at least feels like the same within
the younger generation of people. And I don't know what
really is sparking that, but hopefully it's us that have
been here for a while creating better environments for that.
It's interesting, though, to be in a time where there
are so many initiatives around women, Like it was going
to mention that it almost is like I think some
of the younger women at my company kind of hate
(07:51):
that a bit as well, right, that there has to
be this sort of initiative, because in their minds are like,
I'm here, I'm confident, I'm doing my thing, and it's
almost for the older gen ration of people that still
sort of need that push. I don't know what I
always feel about it. Sometimes I think it was necessary,
but at the same time, I wish we didn't have
to make such a big deal out of it. I
wish that it just sort of naturally happened, rather than
(08:13):
being forced to be like half of your directors have
to be this way and half of your board members
have to be this way. Ideally, people are getting chosen
for their right skills and the right reasons, and so
you don't want to feel like you were put into
a place because you were meeting or something. Um. But
I guess it was kind of a necessary step because
it wasn't happening on its own. I think ideally will
(08:34):
get to a place, and I think with the younger
generation they're already sort of moving that way where that
will dissolve and it will just be the norm, hopefully.
I honestly felt like when I was getting started. I
didn't even understand that there was this issue with women
in the workforce. I've never been brought up to think that.
My father always told me I could achieve whatever I
wanted in my life, Like, I never understood that there
was perhaps any boundary or barrier at all. I showed
(08:59):
up and I just felt whether I succeeded or failed
it was based on me, not whether I was a woman.
Strangely enough, now my entire team is women, and I
didn't set out for it to be that way. It
just sort of happened, and we're fantastic, happy, highly achieving, emotive,
awesome team. But I was meeting with client the other
(09:20):
day and I happened to mention to her that my
whole teams women, and she looked at me and she's like,
you need to diverse five team because you're not speaking
to just women, you know. And it real It's really
stuck in my head, and I'm trying to figure that out.
Pretty we'll be here in five years and it will
be like all men going like, how can we get
more men in the workplace. But I do think the millennials,
the younger people at work. I sort of look at
(09:41):
them as I felt about myself, which was they're not
thinking that there's some barrier to their success. I think
that that's sort of a learned thing as you move
up in the world, whatever you choose. And all of
this effort that's being put forth in a very public
way now to support women in the workplace, I think
is definitely making the younger women at work question what's
(10:04):
going on here? You know what's necessary? I didn't realize. Yeah,
So for us, the millennials definitely need want more feedback
more quickly. They want to know when they do a
great job, they want to know when they sucked at something.
And that's good. I think it's great. And it's teaching
leaders like us to give feedback more often. And that's
(10:26):
males and females. They definitely similar. They want they want
to know how they're doing all the time. But I
think what that's also done is it's given the females
a chance to come in and say, what do I
have to do to be you? That's the question I
get most often, what do I have to do? And
I'm like, I, actually it's the kind of cool group.
(10:51):
But like Laurie, I showed up every day, did my work.
My dad said you could be whatever you want to be,
and I believed him. So I worked hard and I
got promoted. I was we lucky that I had a
boss that was very supportive of that. I'm not sure
all women do. And when they ask that question, they
asked specifically, do I have to not have kids? Should
I not take time off? Oh? Yeah, it's definitely still
(11:13):
a thing. I mean seriously, that's like, I think the
bigger issue. It's almost beyond sort of gender, and it's
really like our industry. I waited a long time to
have kids. I have kids now, but it's not easy,
and sometimes I ask myself, what I want this for
someone else. I've had some other women friends that are
in this and creatives that have chosen not to a
lot of the most senior women I know that I'm
great friends with have had to make choices to sacrifice that.
(11:36):
How do we set a better example, because I don't
think that you should have to make those sacrifices. How
for men and women, can we make this industry that
we're in a place where you don't feel like you
can't be in it because you're a woman, and that
means you can't have kids, or even a man can't
have as much of a rule in his children's life.
It's expected to travel a certain amount of time, and
(11:57):
so beyond gender, I think the bigger is you is
how do we actually create an environment where people want
to work. These young people want to do stuff that matters.
They aren't going to sacrifice their lives for their work,
like in the same way that maybe we did as
we started out. And if we can't create an environment
where they can have all of those things, then we
will lose that talent, and we already are. And so
(12:20):
I think it goes beyond sort of the man woman thing. Yeah,
you know, it's funny. When I had my son, Brian,
He's only twelve and I've been doing this a long time.
So when I have my son, I was kind of older,
and people at work said it was the best thing
that you could have done, because it said to us
that we could balance and still be achievers. And I
still struggle with that. You know, I'm not balance. I
(12:41):
don't know what that means, juggling. I don't know what that.
All I know is I'm constantly making choices, and I
hope I make good ones every day. But It was
a good thing for all of our employees that I
could show them that I could go to a doctor's
appointment with my son or go to a basketball game
and still get my job done. You know, you can't
not do your job, but you've got to be able
to to take the parts of your life that are
(13:02):
important to you. It's not just about kids. I had
a funny learning moment around that where I used to
think I had to be there late night with everyone
and I had to work the long hours and be
on email at three am, which I sometimes still am.
Let's just say, but I had someone come to me
and say, I don't want you to check your email.
I don't want you to be here late with me,
like I want to know that at some point when
i'm you, I'm not doing that, so please don't. And
(13:23):
that was a realization where I was like, wait a minute,
I thought that was being supportive, when in fact, I'm
not setting a great example for where they might want
to be. And it was a big realization, Wait, I
need to care for myself too, because I'm not creating
a vision of a leader that they want to be
as senior women and your businesses and your industries, like,
do you feel pressured to be role models? Absolutely? Yeah,
(13:47):
the forevere for the kids, employees, you know, for sort
of everyone around. I feel like we set an example
every day as senior members of our companies, as parents,
as women, as creative individuals, and people are watching and
we cannot forget. So if you every choice, we make
even more. There's microphones and care and I think people
(14:11):
when they look up to you and you're a leader,
they model your behavior. So whether or not you see
yourself as a role model, they are. If you blow
your stack at someone and you start cursing in the
hallway and when someone does something wrong, they think that's okay,
so then they do it. So I think even if
you don't see yourself as a role model, you better
know that people are watching you for how to behave.
And that goes for at home, and then it goes
(14:33):
for at work too and on boards that you sit on.
And I think it's important to be real about what
it takes that it isn't easy always. I was telling
the story like there was one moment not easy. You
make it look awesome. I need to post more terrible
photos on my social feeds. There was one moment where
I was like in my closet hiding from my children
on like a hang out, and I was trying to
(14:54):
light it like sit away where it looked like I
was in a normal space, not hiding in my closet,
and my door opening, my one year old walked in,
and I'm like, the video just went out. I think
it's important to show the struggles as well, and then
how do you create conditions where those struggles aren't happening
too frequently? Right? I gave a speech at this young
female entrepreneurs event and I realized I was like going
(15:16):
on third Everything I thought would be interesting and useful
for these women is so not. And I just talked
about like every time I like made a mistake and
stumbled into everything, and I realized my entire career had
really been stumbling. And some woman came up to me
after and she was lovely, and she was in her
early twenties and she had her own startup, and she
came up to me and she said, oh my god,
(15:37):
that was so amazing. She's like, after listening to you,
I am going to go home and I have seven
life plans. I'm going to rip up two of them.
Oh my god, this is a new world. I know
it really isn't general. I know I'm still working one.
(15:58):
I think we're going to take a little cocktail break.
Time to take a break with our friends from Bullet
Frontier Whiskey, please drink responsibly. Our friends from Diagio have
an amazing mixologist that is coming in to greet us.
Her name is Jessica Gonzalez. She is breaking the mold
in her own field as one of the leading female mixologists.
(16:22):
She pushes the creative frontier every day. And I'd like
to welcome her here and maybe ask Jessica when she
gets us all poured what she has cooked up for
us today. Jessica has worked at some of the most
renowned establishments in New York City. She's received a James
Beard Award, which is crazy impressive, and multiple nominations from
(16:43):
Tales of the Cocktail. So I am excited to hear
what you've got here for us, A better job than
I do, Jessica, Hi, So yeah, So I decided to
do something a little bit inspired by Save Mother Earth.
So I used camemeal, you know, the earth Flower, and
I really want to do something that was a little
bit against the idea of the feminine cocktail. I love
(17:06):
that it's not painted, taste sweet. It's about enjoying whiskey.
There's no foam. There is a simple, like old fashioned variation. Definitely,
it's a spirit forward kind of drank. Something for somebody
who loves bullet. Came meal is like a really nice
sort of cohesive whiskey pairing. What's it like for you
(17:29):
being a female mixologist, you know, tends to be a
fairly male industry, it does. I mean things have really
changed and moved very forward. And to think the past
like ten years and I've been doing this for twenty,
I've seen a real progression and it's actually really refreshing
to see. Do you take a lot of risks, like
do you try things and then say, oh that doesn't work?
(17:49):
But absolutely you have to this cocktown. Now that this
gorgeous ice cube has melted a little is delightful. It's
advertising right now that she's mark did the cocktain, we
understand the thought. Now she's like bullet, she's making friends
(18:10):
on the frontier. Cheers, thank you so uh you know.
I saw this um for International Women's Day, and there
was an agency in sal Pollo that actually released an
(18:32):
app that detects when men interrupt women in a meeting.
It kind of struck me as surprising, like do you
think that's a big issue or is it an issue
maybe we're less aware of than we should be. Apparently
it's quite an issue, and I've actually heard that in Washington.
It's abhorrent. It's constant, and there are women keeping track
(18:53):
in meetings of how often there's also due process and
forget what it's called where you repeat the women in
the room, there's a philosophy where when the woman says
something another woman in the room, if there is when
you're expected to repeat and give credit and just start
to build a bit like almost double up on it.
And that's something that it's starting to be practiced, and
meetings a lot read a lot about that. Yeah, I interrupt,
(19:15):
and I'm trying to be better at it, and I
don't know it's because I had to, like I'm trying
to think all the pusiness together some of those crispin meetings,
and so then I don't know if I'm judged as
interrupting more because a woman. For me, it goes back
to fourth grade and my teacher thought I talked too
much in class and I literally was put on the
other side of the room. I somehow got through the
(19:35):
interruption thing by being worse adrupted. But it's something I
need to work on bad behavior. Is that your advice
to women out there? I think interruptions of problem. I
also think and maybe it's just because there are more
men in the room, generally, they'll repeat what you say
and get credit for the idea that happens. That's why
(19:56):
I called them out on it. And I do thank
you for saying that for me. Again, you said it
slightly differently than I did. I think most people might
let you take credit back. I take credit back. People
will literally be like, oh yeah, John said. I'm like, yeah, yeah, hello,
I said that if we repeated. There was a Black
Mirror episode Black Mirror, and if you watched it, it's
like the worst things that can happen with technology, But
one of them was it recorded and documented like everything
(20:19):
anyone said. But it made you crazy because you could
go back and rewatch things and dwell over them. But
I was like, that would be amazing to be able
to rerecord and see like see I did say at
first and have proof of because I feel like it
does happen a lot. Part of my job as a
creative director is to make other people on my team
feel like things are their ideas. So I tend to
(20:40):
present things like, well, what if we and you also, though,
have to make sure you maintain sort of control over
that idea or then things in the end gettributed back
to your involvement on a project, you know, And so
I think, you know, it's something that we all have
to learn. When I have someone on my team who's brilliant,
but she's super quiet and stuff spoken, I didn't even
realize that that was a thing where you repeat and
(21:02):
I kind of naturally would like stop and be like, wait,
what did you say? And have a repeat it again.
So I think there's some practices that are starting to happen.
And I don't know where that comes from, if it's
just sort of a natural evolution thing that's happened, but
it apparently is a big thing. It's funny Microsoft was
in engineering cultures. They were definitely generally more men in
most rooms than women. It's funny it would happen you'd
(21:25):
say something and then someone else would repeated and it
would get momentum. I always took it as a win.
I'd always be sitting there going, yes, that got her,
that gout through. That's like actually going to impact things,
you know, I think you do as long as there's
a way that doesn't prevent you from becoming the leader.
Let's eventually that matter. I don't mind as much now
because I'm the boss with the creative a young person
(21:45):
in the room. If I'm not listening or you know,
when I was coming up, I didn't get credit for that.
People would think my partner did it. I wouldn't maybe
get promoted, they would be the one put on a project.
So I think it does matter when you are more
junior and when you are sort of established your voice
and your role. At some point, our job as leaders
is to let people's ideas lead wherever they come from.
(22:06):
Just get great work, and it doesn't matter as much.
But I think we have a role to help those
voices get credit and get hurt. It's an interesting business
and a creative side of advertising has so often been
about credit, right who made that? Because there's something at
the end of the day, and I think Tiffany you
said earlier, so many people are touching a piece of
work a campaign and so many different formats. Now that
(22:28):
idea of credit it's harder and harder to find there. Yeah,
there's a balance, like even your clients. You want to
have clients feel like it's their idea or own it,
have ownership over things, but you also don't want to
have so much credit there that they're like, wait, what
did you do here? Why are we paying you? So
there's a balance to going we're adding value, but at
the same time we're collaborative and we're shaping this together,
(22:50):
not being so sort of separate from the idea that
they are confused as to like why you're in the room.
You know, there's a fine balance there, I think with
credit and collaboration that happens. Speaking of do you think
it's easier for women on sort of the client side
of marketing or the agency side? Is there a difference?
We have a couple of and you were one, but
we have a couple of clients whomo. But I think
(23:16):
when the CMO at a client is a female, all
of the females who work for them have an easier
time not not doing their work. They're not getting special treatment.
All those spat trips we were taking exactly, and I
think they can see the path to leadership and so
they act like leaders and so I think that makes
(23:37):
it easier for them. And I think the same thing
happens on the agency side, which is why we see
so few female executives in the c suite. They don't
have role models. If you're not in a company where
a woman has a leadership position, you don't know how
to behave yourself. In our company, I'm fairly outspoken, as
you know, and so it's worked well for me in
that company. I'm not sure that I could work in
(23:59):
another company and be like this and be successful. So
in our company or women know, if I want something,
I'm better say what I want a better say straight.
I better tell the truth. You know. That's how it
works here. I'm not sure that it works someplace else. Yeah,
does to take quite a bit. What isn't isn't going
to be the norm and the politics. Our thing is
(24:19):
tell the truth, tell the truth, just say it like
it is. If you think that's a crappy idea, say
that's a crappy idea, and let's move on and let's
get to a better place. It saves a ton of time.
I think there's like something that happens. Let's say there's
a CMO, there's a male or female. There's often this
weird rumor that happens that's like she only likes men.
So it's like, great, the men don't like me, the
(24:39):
women like who likes me? You know? And I don't
know if that's true or like why that perception is
that the CMO, this female SEMO, she doesn't like she's
threatened by it. There's this weird rumor that you know
is out there. Maybe it's true, but like how do
we as women and leaders break that? And what is that?
Where is that coming from? Because it's like, well, great,
so female leader that can't actually have a female client,
(25:02):
and then if I have a male client he likes
me because of why. So there's just some weirdness that
I think still exists around relationships. And I remember when
I was starting at Crispin and they hired a third female.
They were like, oh, you threat you know, like, but
it's not just you in town anymore. I should be
like worried that she was going to take my job.
(25:25):
That it was like there was this want to create
tension or create a competition around and I'm like, well,
there's like thirty five guys. Aren't you worried? You should
be worried, you know. And so it's funny how, somehow
there's still a little bit of this female female tension
that still gets sparked, and I try to be very
cautious of that and make sure I don't ever give
(25:46):
off that sort of vibe stereotypes. Right, Yeah, our company
is smaller than your guys years but yours. There's a
real sisterhood of women in the company. Definitely trying to
organize around the younger women in the company, very heavily
focused on that. But also we sort of have to
C level jobs. We have a CEO and a CFO.
(26:07):
Those are the only two seas and our CFO as
women and so pretty equal power at the top. And
I think that that's quite an impressive situation that's going
on there. She's the CFO, but she's involved in every
facet of the company and with as many people as
she can be involved with at all times. And it's
probably a very unique situation. But she's been there about
(26:28):
as long as I've been there, so I've not I've
not really seen anything else. We hit on that women
supporting other women, right U. You know, there's already felt like,
you know, there's some wave in this industry for a
lot of women's panels and women's networks and women's dinners
and mentoring programs, and it feels like fairly recently, right
over the last few years, and now there feels like
(26:50):
there's even more energy and momentum on that. I always wonder,
is the Women's Dinner accomplishing anything? Is it moving us forward?
Is it actually creating a silo? Still? Yeah? You know
it's funny. Early in my career there were organizations in
New York for women, and I refused to join them
because I thought, right, I thought, if I joined this organization,
(27:12):
I'm a woman in advertising, I'm not an advertising person.
I've just put another sort of label on myself that
I don't interesting I need. But now I actually feel
like I need to go be part of those organizations
to help the younger women and again to be a
role model. So I've changed my opinion about those things
(27:32):
over the years. But in the early days, I was like,
there's no yeah, and I didn't want to be in
that small sort of made people realize, wait a minute,
you are a woman, even you are, and I'm going
to treat you like one instead of you're doing what
the rest of us are doing. You know, it's funny.
I grew up with three sisters, and a lot of
(27:54):
people say, oh, sisters always fight, and they fight over
clothes and they fight over boys or whatever. We never fought,
So for me, this sisterhood thing is very natural to
prop up the other women and to want to see
them succeed. And I think that that's a very interesting
insight to looking at people and how their family relationships worked,
(28:14):
because people who hate their sisters and arrivals with them
have a tougher time with women at work. And you
look at these less experienced women and you could say,
I see something great there. I'm going to help them.
That's the magic of a great leader. And by the way,
I think you should do the same thing with the men.
Not I'm not saying it's just reached down into the
organization and pick out the women, the gems or the
(28:35):
diamonds and the rough There are men too that we
should be pulling up, and then they will be more
likely to also help women, which we need. We can't
just have women helping women and to do it too.
So if they feel discriminated against or feel like they're
not part of the thing, then when they get to
be in those positions, there yeah backlash against. You know,
(28:57):
every time say you're going to a women's fanel or
women's dinners thing, there's always that well, where's the men's dinner, right,
where's the men's network. I think one of the good
things that comes out of it is it just forces
you to like pause for a minute and go, oh,
let's help some people. Let's pause just in the craze
of the pace we run at and to stop and go, wait,
this is a moment to pause and not go to
(29:17):
dinner to close some business or make some money or
sell an idea, but this is a moment to go
to a dinner and actually think about helping other people.
I do think we're at the cusp of this morphing
into more of a broad based mentoring and an approach
to help. That's interesting because my sort of bosses and
partners that Tie and Rosemary were co CEO's of DWT
(29:39):
and now they're co CEOs here. Rose said, for many
years I would get asked to speak at an innovation
or whatever conference and she would be asked to be
on the women's panel, and just like what we're doing
the same job. These have conversations are important, but it's
also important just to have diversified conversations to gather too,
so you start to learn, I think about different perspectives,
(29:59):
but on the same top, making sure that there are
different voices represented when you're just talking about whatever it is,
rather than them always having to be I think about
women plus you know, ten fifteen, However, many years from now,
I would like for people to say about me, she
was a great leader, not she was a great leader
who was great for women. That would be my job.
(30:21):
So I hope that in doing what we're doing, we're
helping women to become leaders, but we are serving as
leaders for the entire industry. That's at least what I
try to do every day, and I think it's important
because I think that's what leadership is about. Do you
have one piece of advice for women in these industries today, advertising, media, creative, music, entertainment.
(30:44):
I guess I would go back to when I first
started and I was just doing me. You know, do
you be the best you that you can be? Sort
of climbed the mountain as you may. If you're doing
the best that you can do, and you're putting your
best self out there every day, and you're collaborating and
you're doing your job to the best of your ability,
(31:05):
then it will all fall into place and you will
be satisfied in your work, and your place of work
will be satisfied with you if you do you the
best you can. I mean I think I do someone
else try to be like Valves. I remember when I
was learning how to present and young and trying to
(31:25):
really like be something, I thought I had to be someone.
I'm from Oklahoma. I always say I'm a little bit country,
a little bit rock and roll, and to me that
was from who I am as a person. And if
I give a speech, I don't rehearse it in that
same way. I have to be a little bit raw
and rough around the edges. And I think that clearly
then shows people I have a point of view. I
have an approach to things that's unique, and I think
(31:47):
everyone in creative business just wants someone to bring an interesting,
different perspective. Little more Oklahoma, and especially now, a little
bit knowing a little bit of roma is actually serving
you well. Don't try to be this man that you
be yourself, and how do you just strengthen that to
the best that you can? Awesome? Yeah, I agree. I
mean because I'm me every day. If I would just
add to that, I would say, do stuff and don't
(32:10):
wait tomorrow. You can procrastinate and not get stuff produced.
You can not get your ideas out. Go for it.
Like you have an idea, go for it today. Get
the people who are going to support you, who may
think differently than you, who are going to pressure test
your idea, be devil's advocate, but get your dished on,
because that's what you're here to do. Right. We all
(32:30):
do this because we want to make things. We want
to make things happen, and we want to make things,
and so I think just doing it is really important,
and as yourself, not somebody else's version of it, but
your own version of that thing. Yeah, it's true. So
that's the podcast. Maybe you've never done that, it'll be fine.
What could go wrong? I've never done this. Okay, I
(32:51):
think we're doing reasonably well. I congratulate ourselves a job, lady.
It's awesome. We have a lot of radio stations. Anybody
want to give the weather. Yeah, one more question. We
always ask our guests on tagline, what's your tagline? Already
gave mine. Yeah, I didn't even realize. I'm a little
bit country, a little bit rocket. Oh there. I guess
(33:16):
mine is I'm doing me awesome. I guess is mine
must be doing now. I love it. I love it,
and I'm going to do it with bourbon. Thank you, guys.
This was awesome to women, and I thank you. With
(33:37):
an addition to my tagline, here's what I would like
to say. Actually, my tagline is tell it to me straight.
And the reason that I believe that is because I
really want people to be honest all the time, and
it's one of the things that I hold myself too.
I think when you are really you and you let
other people really be them, you get to the truth
(34:00):
and you get to some fantastic work. Hopefully I'll get
to see the podcast soon, all right. Arianna Huffing turn
founder and CEO of Sride Global. The current workplace culture
based on the macho naution that burnout is a sign
of strength and dedication, and as sleep and taking time
(34:20):
to recharge as science of weakness is a huge detrimount
of creativity. When we prioritize our well being, we are
all both women and men, much more able to tap
into our inner source of creativity. Jackline saturned general manager
of Harvest Records and general manager of Caroline and asked
(34:43):
a lot of time why almost all of my staff
as women. Women have a more collaborative spirit. It's less
about oh, this made me look weak if I include
all these people in a meeting, and more about how
I'm going to come with my army to come up
with the most creative, smart strategy imaginable. The music industry
always had women as assistance. They actually called them secretaries
(35:04):
when I first started, So we were the ones that
were writing reports, doing expenses, making reservations, covering shows, booking travel,
attending the events to make sure our boss has got
to the right places. Now it has become a way
of life in the business to be a part of
every aspect. We've always created an atmosphere of being inclusive.
I think it's so important to make everyone feel that
they have in value. That's the spirit that I want
(35:26):
to foster. Shelley zalis Ceo, the female Quotient creator of
the Girl's Lounge. Gender equality is not a female issue.
It's a social and economic issue, and both men and
women are all important. We're all equal, We're just different.
There's masculine and feminine styles of leadership. Masculine in general, linear, analytic, directive, decisive,
(35:51):
feminine qualities of leadership, nurturing, empathetic, innovative, creative, collaborative. Diversity
is not about gender, race, or age. Diversity is about mindset.
So by combining and integrating the masculine and feminine style,
we have our best work. Hey is this Adam Schlachter.
(36:18):
Hey Adam, it's Gail. How are you doing. I'm awesome.
I am calling you from the set of Tagline. Oh cool, Yeah,
where are you in London? You are in London. It's
late there isn't it, But I kind of don't adjust.
So it's whatever time wherever you are. Ah well, it
is time for creativity. We were thinking you would make
(36:40):
an awesome next guest on Tagline, so we're hoping to
tag you in. That would be fantastic. I'm flattered and awesome.
I'm sure you'll have some provocative questions for us on
all things creativity. That happened late night in London, So
we look forward to having you. We should probably let
you try to tend to get some sleep, but we're
(37:01):
it's like to talk creative with you in the in
the near future. That's wonderful, so am I. It's great.
It's all audio in the podcast, so no stylist, no
makeup needed, radio I can relate. We're actually going to
be recording in an upcoming episode at South By Southwest,
and rumor has it you're going to be in Austin,
hoping to hook on that I'm going to be in Austin.
(37:22):
I hate missing a south spot, so I'm very excited
that I'll be there and I'll get to join you guys.
This would be a lot of fun. Yeah, it'll be awesome.
It's a perfect backdrop for a creative conversation. So looking
forward to seeing you awesome. I can't wait, and I've
seen in a few days, I guess yeah, we'll catch
you soon. Thanks Adam. You've been listening to tagline presented
by our friends at Bullet Front to your whiskey at
(37:43):
the Bullet Distilling Company, Louisville, Kentucky. Please drink responsibly. We
want to hear what you thought. Join the discussion on
Twitter now by using the hashtag tagline catch all our
episodes at an i heart radio dot com slash tagline
in the I heart Radio app, or where wherever you
get your podcasts. Audiation M
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