June 24, 2025 • 25 mins
Join host Buzz Knight for a new episode of “Takin’ a Walk” as talks with Livingston, the genre-blending singer-songwriter known for his heartfelt lyrics and cinematic pop sound. In this candid conversation on foot, Livingston opens up about his creative journey—from viral breakthroughs to the stories behind his most personal songs. Discover how walking fuels his inspiration, the challenges he’s faced in the music industry, and what drives his quest for authenticity. It’s an intimate look at an artist redefining modern pop, one step at a time.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Taking a Walk.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
So when I'm creating, I think I kind of just
try to make space for concepts, whether that'll be a
lyrical concept or just you know, a melodic shape, something
that feels like it's making a really clear statement. And
when that pulls at me and I can kind of
visualize what a full song would sound like from there,
it then kind of gives way to dialing it in
(00:23):
and making it a full song.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Welcome to the Taking a Walk Podcast, where Buzz Night
explores the stories behind the music, and today we're joined
by an artist who's on a songwriting and powerful voice
have resonated with fans all over the world, Livingstone. From
his early days crafting songs in his bedroom to sharing
his music on stages across the country. Livingston's journey is
(00:46):
a testament to the power of vulnerability and perseverance.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
In this episode, we'll.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Talk about the moments that shape his artistry, the inspiration
behind his most moving songs, and what he's learned along
the way. Buzz talks with Livingston about his new deluxe edition,
A Hometown Odyssey. A story continues on Taking a Walk.
Speaker 4 (01:08):
Livingston, thanks for being on the Taking a Walk Podcast.
It's an honor having you on.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 4 (01:15):
So since the show is called taking a Walk, I'd
like to ask this question before we get the proceedings going.
If you could take a walk with somebody who is
involved with music, living or dead. Who would you take
a walk with and where do you think you would
like to take that walk?
Speaker 2 (01:36):
I would love to take a walk with Rick Group
and at Changri La in Alibi.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
That would be pretty intense, or maybe the opposite, Maybe
it would be like the most relaxing.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Then I feel like he has this aura of calm
around him or at least just like deeper thought, like
takes you out of the real world and into kind
of the I choose on shoose Off tooos Off for sure.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
And what is it like making this move from Denton,
Texas now to the LA based That's a little bit
of a different stop on the map.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
You know, it's really different, though I categorize my LA
experience is pretty insulated because I really didn't change much
about my lifestyle from when I moved from Texas, because
it was just a move made to focus on becoming
a better songwriter and producer, which I'm still figuring out.
(02:40):
You know, it's years of sessions before I even moved
out to LA, and then years of sessions in LA.
It's more so just a change that pushed me to
push myself further as a creator. But most of my
time is largely spent alone in my bedroom studio. I
(03:03):
don't really go out, don't go to parties. I don't
hang out with people that much.
Speaker 5 (03:07):
I'd just kind of do my thing, just like in Denton,
Texas exactly. It's an amazing story, a hometown. Odyssee, the
story continues. We're going to talk about that for sure,
but I do want to ask you, can you share
a memory from your childhood that first sparked your your
love for music.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
I remember playing rock Band, this video game, I think
it was on the Wii, back when those were around,
and I played with my brother and he would drum
and I would sing, and it was like just all
the classics. It was like more than a feel in
in Summer sixty nine and Message in a Bottle and
like all this stuff from Boston and Police and Queen
(03:50):
and like I remember the feeling of like when the
bridge would come and that part of the song would
hit that just caught you on a deeper level. And
you know, I knew I couldn't sing too well, but
like you know, it was just fun to jam out
with my brother and that was kind of the first
seed planet of music.
Speaker 4 (04:11):
I think, well, let's have a little fun with something.
We'll call it fast five here, so five fast questions.
First concert you ever attended and how it impacted you.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Tolbe Mack at the American Airline Center in Dallas, Texas,
and impacted me because I dressed like him and I
was standing by B stage and when he came out
on be stage, he looked at me and he knew
I was like dressed like him, and he like winked
at me. And I think it like set my future emotion.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
I love that.
Speaker 4 (04:42):
First instrument you ever played out of violin, First time
you wrote or composed a song, twelve or thirteen. First
musician you truly admired.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
John Bellian, nice one.
Speaker 4 (04:57):
We're trying to get him on the podcast, by the way.
First memorable experience performing live in front of an audience.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
You've group when I was thirteen, convinced the youth group
leader to let me perform in front of everybody. Mike
was off for the first two songs.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Oh geez.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
When you're writing a new song, tell us about the
creative process. How you start. Do you start with lyrics?
Do you start with melody?
Speaker 3 (05:23):
Is? What is your way of doing it?
Speaker 2 (05:27):
For the longest time, and I think this is still
my favorite. It's all concepts first. Like I think everything
that I create and everything that I love has a
strong why I'm not a big fan of abstract stuff.
I kind of have a simple palette as a consumer
and as a listener and as a viewer of art,
I have like a mainstream kind of you know, maybe
(05:48):
some would call boring an unnuanced, a pugle, but I'm
just a sucker for like big, solid, clear, emotional fecius
to anything that I consume. So when I'm creating, I
think I kind of just try to make space for concepts,
whether that'll be a lyrical concept or just you know,
a melodic shape, something that feels like it's making a
(06:11):
really clear statement. And when that pulls at me and
I can kind of visualize what a full song would
sound like from there, it then kind of gives way
to dialing it in and making it a full song.
Speaker 4 (06:25):
Your music is incredible. The lyrics are incredible and you're
twenty two years old, thank.
Speaker 6 (06:33):
You so much, and their lyrics that are certainly of
someone who could be way older than twenty two years old.
Speaker 4 (06:44):
Where do you get this sense of focus and incredible wisdom?
You know?
Speaker 2 (06:53):
I don't know if I don't think I'm wise, because
there's still stuff I find out every day in terms
of just stumble over my land feet and like figuring
out like, oh, this is this whole way I was
going about this thing was flawed and there's a better
way to do it, and like kind of the more
you know that you realize, the less you know. So
I think there's that. But I do kind of approach
life with a like a really inordinate amount of intensity.
(07:18):
With everything that I do. It's just very intense. I
experience sensations really intensely and emotions really intensely, sometimes at
the cost of it being a little too serious. But
I think that that helps me out when it comes
to music, because I look at every song as a
bit of a life or death. Like, you know, if
(07:40):
I could if I got hit by a bus tomorrow,
what would I make today, Which which may be a
little extreme, but I think that can kind of maybe
explain some of the intensity or drive to some of
the songs, because I think that they are our prisms
for a lot of things that I'm trying to get
out of my system. Just in case.
Speaker 4 (08:01):
We also produced this other podcast that's called Music Saved Me.
It's about the sort of the therapeutic and healing power of music.
And I know for you, you went through some terrible
times at school and there was bullying and just an
(08:23):
awful environment. So I do have to ask you it
has music saved you? And do you think music has
healing power?
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Absolutely? I mean, I think music hit me at the
perfect time. I think it saved me from whatever else
I would have found to medicate my issues in middle
school and high school, the drug to alcohol or partying
or whatever that the typical and completely understandable advice has
already kind of drown out the feeling of being alone
and feeling like other It gave me space to channel
(08:59):
a lot of negativity into something that, at least to me,
felt productive at the time. Even though I had nothing
to show for its demos, I had no idea what
it would give way to, but I always had a
feeling about it, and it definitely came at the time
that I needed it too.
Speaker 4 (09:15):
Your lyrics are so deeply personal. Is there a particular
song that was especially cathartic for you or particularly challenging
to write?
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Half Life felt like a turning point moment because I
remember I wrote that at a time when I was
just so confused about what to do next, and I had,
you know, five years of my career under my golt,
but nothing to really show for quite yet. And I
remember this feeling of almost rediscovering that initial passion for
(09:52):
making a statement in a song that felt big and
clear and universal, and thinking about all the people that
never sacrificed for me, and all the times in my
life that I've sacrificed for someone I love, and realizing
that those moments feels so much more potent than getting
in these material moments of where things pay off or
you see the back end of whatever you're doing kind
(10:15):
of comes to fruition. And I think that song really
set my course again in a really unclear time.
Speaker 4 (10:23):
How do you know that one of your songs, when
you're creating, is truly finished. What's the point that you
know it's done and out the door and done.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
When it sounds like the original visualization of the song
that I had when the spark hit. Like when the
spark hits, it's almost like a fifteen second clockwork. Orange
just blit to that information where I can kind of
see the entire lifetime of the song play out and
what it could be and everything that could sound like,
and then what color it is and what world it
(10:57):
lives in, and like it's a little glimpse and it
could last as short as a minute, it can last
an entire day at the beginning of creating a song.
But whenever the version that I bounce sounds and feels
and looks to me like that original spark, I know
that there's no need to keep, you know, beating it
(11:18):
over the head, like another idea will come.
Speaker 4 (11:22):
I want to talk about some specific songs off of
the story continues, but I do want to ask you
about I think it's probably my favorite of your work,
and it's Last Man Standing. Can you talk about that kids,
that song and the motivation behind it.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
It's it is.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
It's stellar, man, Thank you so much. That was That
was a song I wrote when you know, I felt
like I didn't have enough to show of what I
had done. So far to this this person that I
really really loved, that I'd been with for a really
long time, and I felt like I didn't have enough.
(12:04):
You know, I wasn't out here making billions of dollars,
I wasn't selling out anything. I had nothing, and I had,
you know, years of having pursued this with nothing really
to show for it. And I was concerned about, like, hey,
does this still like am I still worthy to you
as a as a partner? Can I still give you
what you need if I don't have, you know, the
world behind me to kind of prove it. Every time
(12:26):
I would have that conversation with her, I would just
get reminded like, hey, you were there before anything, like
before before you know, the kid to school even knew
I made music. You know, I've been with this person
since I was fourteen years old. So I think realizing that,
you know, when you truly love somebody, it's not about
(12:47):
what they what they bring into the world, or what
their dreams are, or how realized their final potential is.
It's just about I love this person for who they
are and you know, the way that they see the world.
And so I think it was me realizing that I
didn't need to be more than I was or do
more than I was doing to be worthy.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
It's an incredible song. It's so visual.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Thanks, it's really fun life. People really seem to get
into that one and the shows.
Speaker 4 (13:22):
So let's talk about grave Digger off of the story continues.
Tell me about that song and motivation behind that.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
I think I'm really introspective to a point where I
can check my thoughts at the door so much that
it becomes a new censor. It becomes cyclical and repetitive,
and I can end up getting in my own way
and being my own worst enemy. And sometimes that really
frustrates me, And so I wanted to write a song
(13:54):
about how frustrating that feeling is, to kind of know
that you are the cause of of whatever you're tripping over.
It's self induced friction, it's not external. I know a
lot of people feel like that too. They just want
to get out of their heads into the world. And
I definitely resonate with that, so I needed to get
it out.
Speaker 4 (14:13):
We all do it, right, It's such a common, common flaw, right, Yeah,
in the human condition, which is what you explore. You
explore the human condition, not only in your in your
own self, but in the world around you. How about Look, Mom,
I Can Fly? Talk about that one.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
I would say, Look, Mom, I Can Fly is the
exact opposite of Grave Digger. That's that's just a reminder
not to take things so seriously. It's a reminder of
every song that I've listened to that just makes me,
let go have a good time and not you know,
look for meaning in every single detail, but just kind
of like you know those days where you wake up
and you have the roast colored glasses on and everything
(14:54):
is just like kind of magical and nostalgic, and you're
not taking yourself to too seriously. There's a lot to
be said for that feeling, and I don't experience it
as much as I used to, and so I needed
to make that song to remind myself of how important
it is.
Speaker 4 (15:13):
And I want to talk about a couple of others.
A glow off of the story continues.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Glows is a song describing to somebody the power and
the light that they have even when they don't see it,
and when they feel like the world is against them
and they're at the bottom of a very dark place,
knowing you can't take them out of that you don't
know exactly what they're going through, but you can still
see that they're beautiful and they have something to bring
to the world even in that place.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
And then the last one I want to ask you
about is Brainstorm.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Brainstorm is kind of a sister song to Grave Digger,
and I think it's a little less dark and a
little bit more visual, and so I think it was
kind of a kind of improving on the format a
little bit of I'm going to make a dark song
about a very introspective thing. Is there a way to
describe it that feels more grandiose and a little less dark?
Speaker 4 (16:09):
And you recalled the moment you realized that music was
going to be a career, not just a little side passion.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
Yeah. I got a call when I was I think sixteen.
I had sent an email with my first song, fairy Tale,
that I had made the year before, and I sent
that to someone that I wanted advice from, but I
didn't know he was an A and R. And he
told me, okay, I sent this to my boss and
(16:42):
he signed at Cheeran and all these people and really wants.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
To meet you.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
And that was Greg Nadell, who's a great guy worked
on Electra Records at the time, and that kind of
was the moment I was like, Oh, it's been in
the bedroom, but now it might leave the bedroom, you
know for a bit.
Speaker 4 (17:01):
Yeah, what has been the biggest surprise or lesson that
you've learned since entering the music industry?
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Nobody knows what they're doing. Absolutely nobody knows what you're doing.
There is no formula. Everybody is completely shooting in the dark.
It is no man's land. It is complete trial and
error and rubbing sticks together to try to make a spark.
And the best anybody can do is create authentic things
(17:37):
and try to make a clear message and you know,
something that is unambiguous enough to stick out and put
a foot in the ground on something that is the
only thread I see behind things that are consistently successful
in world changing And aside from that, if there is
(17:58):
any rhyme or reason to this whole industry, I don't
see it.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
Right on.
Speaker 4 (18:08):
Memorable stories from touring or performing that you might want
to share that really stand out.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
I know the stories about people who who come to
the VIP and are like, I haven't been able to
leave my house for six months, Like I have a
fear of being around people. I have a fear of noises,
and you know, I think my my concerts feel really cathartic.
And so there's base for a lot of people that
deal with a lot internally. And I love that because
(18:37):
I think, you know a lot of us, and I
say us meaning you know, people who experience deep things
internally and have a hard time sometimes bringing that out
into the world. The temptation is to make that a
very insulative experience and to not share it and to
not have a community. And so all these people I've
(18:58):
met that are like you know, have I've either dealt
with immense mental or physical challenges and still find themselves,
you know, at the shows showing up and kind of
facing whatever they need to face and using it as
an emotional outlet just makes it really rewarding for me.
Speaker 4 (19:16):
How do you keep your energy your creativity up in
the most positive way when you're on the road, since
the road is can be difficult.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
All I do on the road is train and walk
and eat and play shows and sleep. That's it. And
maybe you know, talk to my people every day obviously,
you know, talk to my talk to my family, you know,
but largely it's how narrow can I make this experience
(19:49):
and what variables cross over and help the other ones
the most. And for me, the more I train, the
better condition I'm in for the show. The more I rest,
the better I recover from the show, and the training
the more I eat, the more fuel.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
I have for this show.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
So it's kind of just this methodical you know, maybe
two methodical Jenga castle of I can't do everything right
now while I'm on the road. But if I can
put on the best show I possibly can every single
night and then still challenge myself in other ways while
I'm out, then it feels productive to me.
Speaker 4 (20:25):
It sounds like you make every show as if it's
your last show.
Speaker 3 (20:30):
You pour so much into it.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
I we say a prayer before we go out every night,
and the theme of this tour, you know, because we've
played this set almost one hundred times now, the exact
same set, and so there's a temptation to go autopilot.
But then there's a reminder that I say during the
Prairie night, which is just like it doesn't matter whether
(20:55):
it's you know, the three hundred person show in New
Orleans or it's the other night in Salt Lake, which
is like twenty four hundred people. Everybody gets the same show.
Everybody deserves the same show. I came from a small town.
Not all the concerts of my favorite artists would even
pass through Dallas. A lot of artists ignored Dallas. I
was like, you know, people are showing up in these
places where it's even less common and more inconvenience to
(21:19):
get to a show, and it's not just baked into
a part of daily life like in these bigger cities.
They deserve the exact same show as the people in
the big cities, and often they're even more appreciative of it.
So it's a constant challenge myself to you twenty six
shows in a row. There are days where I when
I feel amazing, and then there are days when I don't.
(21:40):
But regardless, that shouldn't have an impact on the show
that people get or the experience they have.
Speaker 4 (21:45):
You've had some great collaborations. I want you to maybe
talk about some of those people you've collaborated with, and
I want to ask you what do you look for
in a collaboration in a creative partner, for.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Somebody who challenges me and somebody who has complementary skill
sets that maybe I struggle with her have blind spots with.
My favorite collaborator who I'm working with extensively right now
is Rami Yakub, who is a brilliant, brilliant Swedish songwriter
and my one of my favorite humans in the world.
(22:22):
And he just has this common sense understanding of how
a song should be arranged and how the melody should
flow into each other, and how to build tension and
release and suspense and have shapes that are just iconic
within the song. And a lot of times I think
(22:43):
that can bring a sort of method to the madness
that is really solid from and really impressive from a
creative standpoint, and we just work really well together. So yeah,
I think I think it's challenged, and I think somebody
who maybe even sees the world in a different way,
because because if not, why why would I collaborate? You know,
(23:04):
like I could. I could write with myself all day,
but I'm only one me and I only have I
have my little narrow pinhole through which I view the world.
Why not bring in someone who's lived a different life.
Maybe we could challenge each other, Maybe we could have
a different perspective on the same thing and then those
things collide and make something fresh.
Speaker 4 (23:21):
And how about a dream collaboration that would just, you know,
knock you out, man.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
It might be like it might be like a really
fun camp at Shanger Law for the third album, like
a like Rick Rubin, but also bringing in all the
people I've looked up to, Like if it could be
a camp with like I don't know, like Rommy Bellian,
Rick freaking Jeff Basker, Barell like that. To me, it's
(23:55):
how many pots and pants can we bang together? And
like sent Decide was like all this stuff I grew
up on and then also just be around great which
that the thought of that even being possible is just
kind of crazy to me.
Speaker 4 (24:09):
What do you hope listeners take away from your music?
Speaker 2 (24:15):
I just want people to feel heard, and I don't
want I don't want people to feel as if their
unique internal experience separates them from the rest of the
world or from their potential. And I think you can
still create amazing and beautiful and profound things even if
you have something that you feel like slows you down.
(24:38):
And it's really really easy to compare and look at
other people and you can come up with one hundred
reasons you're not good enough. But if you look at
all the people that have made something exceptional, a lot
of them had a lot slowing them down, and sometimes
a lot more than us slowing them down. So I think,
you know, get out of your head, get into the world,
(25:00):
find what you love to do, and if my songs
could be a small part of empowering that, then that's
that's all I want to do.
Speaker 4 (25:09):
Congratulations on the tour on a hometown to see the
story continues.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
Thank you. I just I just have one last question.
Speaker 4 (25:20):
When you're at the point when you're playing stadiums, would
you consider coming back on.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
AR would absolutely just give me a call.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
Thank you man, I really appreciate it. Living Stone's and
an honor.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
Thank you boss, Thank you for your time.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Thanks for listening to this episode of the Taking a
Walk podcast. Share this and other episodes with your friends
and follow us so you never miss an episode. Taking
a Walk is available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
and wherever you get your podcasts.
Taking a Walk.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
So when I'm creating, I think I kind of just
try to make space for concepts, whether that'll be a
lyrical concept or just you know, a melodic shape, something
that feels like it's making a really clear statement. And
when that pulls at me and I can kind of
visualize what a full song would sound like from there,
it then kind of gives way to dialing it in
(00:23):
and making it a full song.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Welcome to the Taking a Walk Podcast, where Buzz Night
explores the stories behind the music, and today we're joined
by an artist who's on a songwriting and powerful voice
have resonated with fans all over the world, Livingstone. From
his early days crafting songs in his bedroom to sharing
his music on stages across the country. Livingston's journey is
(00:46):
a testament to the power of vulnerability and perseverance.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
In this episode, we'll.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Talk about the moments that shape his artistry, the inspiration
behind his most moving songs, and what he's learned along
the way. Buzz talks with Livingston about his new deluxe edition,
A Hometown Odyssey. A story continues on Taking a Walk.
Speaker 4 (01:08):
Livingston, thanks for being on the Taking a Walk Podcast.
It's an honor having you on.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 4 (01:15):
So since the show is called taking a Walk, I'd
like to ask this question before we get the proceedings going.
If you could take a walk with somebody who is
involved with music, living or dead. Who would you take
a walk with and where do you think you would
like to take that walk?
Speaker 2 (01:36):
I would love to take a walk with Rick Group
and at Changri La in Alibi.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
That would be pretty intense, or maybe the opposite, Maybe
it would be like the most relaxing.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Then I feel like he has this aura of calm
around him or at least just like deeper thought, like
takes you out of the real world and into kind
of the I choose on shoose Off tooos Off for sure.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
And what is it like making this move from Denton,
Texas now to the LA based That's a little bit
of a different stop on the map.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
You know, it's really different, though I categorize my LA
experience is pretty insulated because I really didn't change much
about my lifestyle from when I moved from Texas, because
it was just a move made to focus on becoming
a better songwriter and producer, which I'm still figuring out.
(02:40):
You know, it's years of sessions before I even moved
out to LA, and then years of sessions in LA.
It's more so just a change that pushed me to
push myself further as a creator. But most of my
time is largely spent alone in my bedroom studio. I
(03:03):
don't really go out, don't go to parties. I don't
hang out with people that much.
Speaker 5 (03:07):
I'd just kind of do my thing, just like in Denton,
Texas exactly. It's an amazing story, a hometown. Odyssee, the
story continues. We're going to talk about that for sure,
but I do want to ask you, can you share
a memory from your childhood that first sparked your your
love for music.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
I remember playing rock Band, this video game, I think
it was on the Wii, back when those were around,
and I played with my brother and he would drum
and I would sing, and it was like just all
the classics. It was like more than a feel in
in Summer sixty nine and Message in a Bottle and
like all this stuff from Boston and Police and Queen
(03:50):
and like I remember the feeling of like when the
bridge would come and that part of the song would
hit that just caught you on a deeper level. And
you know, I knew I couldn't sing too well, but
like you know, it was just fun to jam out
with my brother and that was kind of the first
seed planet of music.
Speaker 4 (04:11):
I think, well, let's have a little fun with something.
We'll call it fast five here, so five fast questions.
First concert you ever attended and how it impacted you.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Tolbe Mack at the American Airline Center in Dallas, Texas,
and impacted me because I dressed like him and I
was standing by B stage and when he came out
on be stage, he looked at me and he knew
I was like dressed like him, and he like winked
at me. And I think it like set my future emotion.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
I love that.
Speaker 4 (04:42):
First instrument you ever played out of violin, First time
you wrote or composed a song, twelve or thirteen. First
musician you truly admired.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
John Bellian, nice one.
Speaker 4 (04:57):
We're trying to get him on the podcast, by the way.
First memorable experience performing live in front of an audience.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
You've group when I was thirteen, convinced the youth group
leader to let me perform in front of everybody. Mike
was off for the first two songs.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Oh geez.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
When you're writing a new song, tell us about the
creative process. How you start. Do you start with lyrics?
Do you start with melody?
Speaker 3 (05:23):
Is? What is your way of doing it?
Speaker 2 (05:27):
For the longest time, and I think this is still
my favorite. It's all concepts first. Like I think everything
that I create and everything that I love has a
strong why I'm not a big fan of abstract stuff.
I kind of have a simple palette as a consumer
and as a listener and as a viewer of art,
I have like a mainstream kind of you know, maybe
(05:48):
some would call boring an unnuanced, a pugle, but I'm
just a sucker for like big, solid, clear, emotional fecius
to anything that I consume. So when I'm creating, I
think I kind of just try to make space for concepts,
whether that'll be a lyrical concept or just you know,
a melodic shape, something that feels like it's making a
(06:11):
really clear statement. And when that pulls at me and
I can kind of visualize what a full song would
sound like from there, it then kind of gives way
to dialing it in and making it a full song.
Speaker 4 (06:25):
Your music is incredible. The lyrics are incredible and you're
twenty two years old, thank.
Speaker 6 (06:33):
You so much, and their lyrics that are certainly of
someone who could be way older than twenty two years old.
Speaker 4 (06:44):
Where do you get this sense of focus and incredible wisdom?
You know?
Speaker 2 (06:53):
I don't know if I don't think I'm wise, because
there's still stuff I find out every day in terms
of just stumble over my land feet and like figuring
out like, oh, this is this whole way I was
going about this thing was flawed and there's a better
way to do it, and like kind of the more
you know that you realize, the less you know. So
I think there's that. But I do kind of approach
life with a like a really inordinate amount of intensity.
(07:18):
With everything that I do. It's just very intense. I
experience sensations really intensely and emotions really intensely, sometimes at
the cost of it being a little too serious. But
I think that that helps me out when it comes
to music, because I look at every song as a
bit of a life or death. Like, you know, if
(07:40):
I could if I got hit by a bus tomorrow,
what would I make today, Which which may be a
little extreme, but I think that can kind of maybe
explain some of the intensity or drive to some of
the songs, because I think that they are our prisms
for a lot of things that I'm trying to get
out of my system. Just in case.
Speaker 4 (08:01):
We also produced this other podcast that's called Music Saved Me.
It's about the sort of the therapeutic and healing power of music.
And I know for you, you went through some terrible
times at school and there was bullying and just an
(08:23):
awful environment. So I do have to ask you it
has music saved you? And do you think music has
healing power?
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Absolutely? I mean, I think music hit me at the
perfect time. I think it saved me from whatever else
I would have found to medicate my issues in middle
school and high school, the drug to alcohol or partying
or whatever that the typical and completely understandable advice has
already kind of drown out the feeling of being alone
and feeling like other It gave me space to channel
(08:59):
a lot of negativity into something that, at least to me,
felt productive at the time. Even though I had nothing
to show for its demos, I had no idea what
it would give way to, but I always had a
feeling about it, and it definitely came at the time
that I needed it too.
Speaker 4 (09:15):
Your lyrics are so deeply personal. Is there a particular
song that was especially cathartic for you or particularly challenging
to write?
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Half Life felt like a turning point moment because I
remember I wrote that at a time when I was
just so confused about what to do next, and I had,
you know, five years of my career under my golt,
but nothing to really show for quite yet. And I
remember this feeling of almost rediscovering that initial passion for
(09:52):
making a statement in a song that felt big and
clear and universal, and thinking about all the people that
never sacrificed for me, and all the times in my
life that I've sacrificed for someone I love, and realizing
that those moments feels so much more potent than getting
in these material moments of where things pay off or
you see the back end of whatever you're doing kind
(10:15):
of comes to fruition. And I think that song really
set my course again in a really unclear time.
Speaker 4 (10:23):
How do you know that one of your songs, when
you're creating, is truly finished. What's the point that you
know it's done and out the door and done.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
When it sounds like the original visualization of the song
that I had when the spark hit. Like when the
spark hits, it's almost like a fifteen second clockwork. Orange
just blit to that information where I can kind of
see the entire lifetime of the song play out and
what it could be and everything that could sound like,
and then what color it is and what world it
(10:57):
lives in, and like it's a little glimpse and it
could last as short as a minute, it can last
an entire day at the beginning of creating a song.
But whenever the version that I bounce sounds and feels
and looks to me like that original spark, I know
that there's no need to keep, you know, beating it
(11:18):
over the head, like another idea will come.
Speaker 4 (11:22):
I want to talk about some specific songs off of
the story continues, but I do want to ask you
about I think it's probably my favorite of your work,
and it's Last Man Standing. Can you talk about that kids,
that song and the motivation behind it.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
It's it is.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
It's stellar, man, Thank you so much. That was That
was a song I wrote when you know, I felt
like I didn't have enough to show of what I
had done. So far to this this person that I
really really loved, that I'd been with for a really
long time, and I felt like I didn't have enough.
(12:04):
You know, I wasn't out here making billions of dollars,
I wasn't selling out anything. I had nothing, and I had,
you know, years of having pursued this with nothing really
to show for it. And I was concerned about, like, hey,
does this still like am I still worthy to you
as a as a partner? Can I still give you
what you need if I don't have, you know, the
world behind me to kind of prove it. Every time
(12:26):
I would have that conversation with her, I would just
get reminded like, hey, you were there before anything, like
before before you know, the kid to school even knew
I made music. You know, I've been with this person
since I was fourteen years old. So I think realizing that,
you know, when you truly love somebody, it's not about
(12:47):
what they what they bring into the world, or what
their dreams are, or how realized their final potential is.
It's just about I love this person for who they
are and you know, the way that they see the world.
And so I think it was me realizing that I
didn't need to be more than I was or do
more than I was doing to be worthy.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
It's an incredible song. It's so visual.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Thanks, it's really fun life. People really seem to get
into that one and the shows.
Speaker 4 (13:22):
So let's talk about grave Digger off of the story continues.
Tell me about that song and motivation behind that.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
I think I'm really introspective to a point where I
can check my thoughts at the door so much that
it becomes a new censor. It becomes cyclical and repetitive,
and I can end up getting in my own way
and being my own worst enemy. And sometimes that really
frustrates me, And so I wanted to write a song
(13:54):
about how frustrating that feeling is, to kind of know
that you are the cause of of whatever you're tripping over.
It's self induced friction, it's not external. I know a
lot of people feel like that too. They just want
to get out of their heads into the world. And
I definitely resonate with that, so I needed to get
it out.
Speaker 4 (14:13):
We all do it, right, It's such a common, common flaw, right, Yeah,
in the human condition, which is what you explore. You
explore the human condition, not only in your in your
own self, but in the world around you. How about Look, Mom,
I Can Fly? Talk about that one.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
I would say, Look, Mom, I Can Fly is the
exact opposite of Grave Digger. That's that's just a reminder
not to take things so seriously. It's a reminder of
every song that I've listened to that just makes me,
let go have a good time and not you know,
look for meaning in every single detail, but just kind
of like you know those days where you wake up
and you have the roast colored glasses on and everything
(14:54):
is just like kind of magical and nostalgic, and you're
not taking yourself to too seriously. There's a lot to
be said for that feeling, and I don't experience it
as much as I used to, and so I needed
to make that song to remind myself of how important
it is.
Speaker 4 (15:13):
And I want to talk about a couple of others.
A glow off of the story continues.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Glows is a song describing to somebody the power and
the light that they have even when they don't see it,
and when they feel like the world is against them
and they're at the bottom of a very dark place,
knowing you can't take them out of that you don't
know exactly what they're going through, but you can still
see that they're beautiful and they have something to bring
to the world even in that place.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
And then the last one I want to ask you
about is Brainstorm.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Brainstorm is kind of a sister song to Grave Digger,
and I think it's a little less dark and a
little bit more visual, and so I think it was
kind of a kind of improving on the format a
little bit of I'm going to make a dark song
about a very introspective thing. Is there a way to
describe it that feels more grandiose and a little less dark?
Speaker 4 (16:09):
And you recalled the moment you realized that music was
going to be a career, not just a little side passion.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
Yeah. I got a call when I was I think sixteen.
I had sent an email with my first song, fairy Tale,
that I had made the year before, and I sent
that to someone that I wanted advice from, but I
didn't know he was an A and R. And he
told me, okay, I sent this to my boss and
(16:42):
he signed at Cheeran and all these people and really wants.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
To meet you.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
And that was Greg Nadell, who's a great guy worked
on Electra Records at the time, and that kind of
was the moment I was like, Oh, it's been in
the bedroom, but now it might leave the bedroom, you
know for a bit.
Speaker 4 (17:01):
Yeah, what has been the biggest surprise or lesson that
you've learned since entering the music industry?
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Nobody knows what they're doing. Absolutely nobody knows what you're doing.
There is no formula. Everybody is completely shooting in the dark.
It is no man's land. It is complete trial and
error and rubbing sticks together to try to make a spark.
And the best anybody can do is create authentic things
(17:37):
and try to make a clear message and you know,
something that is unambiguous enough to stick out and put
a foot in the ground on something that is the
only thread I see behind things that are consistently successful
in world changing And aside from that, if there is
(17:58):
any rhyme or reason to this whole industry, I don't
see it.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
Right on.
Speaker 4 (18:08):
Memorable stories from touring or performing that you might want
to share that really stand out.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
I know the stories about people who who come to
the VIP and are like, I haven't been able to
leave my house for six months, Like I have a
fear of being around people. I have a fear of noises,
and you know, I think my my concerts feel really cathartic.
And so there's base for a lot of people that
deal with a lot internally. And I love that because
(18:37):
I think, you know a lot of us, and I
say us meaning you know, people who experience deep things
internally and have a hard time sometimes bringing that out
into the world. The temptation is to make that a
very insulative experience and to not share it and to
not have a community. And so all these people I've
(18:58):
met that are like you know, have I've either dealt
with immense mental or physical challenges and still find themselves,
you know, at the shows showing up and kind of
facing whatever they need to face and using it as
an emotional outlet just makes it really rewarding for me.
Speaker 4 (19:16):
How do you keep your energy your creativity up in
the most positive way when you're on the road, since
the road is can be difficult.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
All I do on the road is train and walk
and eat and play shows and sleep. That's it. And
maybe you know, talk to my people every day obviously,
you know, talk to my talk to my family, you know,
but largely it's how narrow can I make this experience
(19:49):
and what variables cross over and help the other ones
the most. And for me, the more I train, the
better condition I'm in for the show. The more I rest,
the better I recover from the show, and the training
the more I eat, the more fuel.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
I have for this show.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
So it's kind of just this methodical you know, maybe
two methodical Jenga castle of I can't do everything right
now while I'm on the road. But if I can
put on the best show I possibly can every single
night and then still challenge myself in other ways while
I'm out, then it feels productive to me.
Speaker 4 (20:25):
It sounds like you make every show as if it's
your last show.
Speaker 3 (20:30):
You pour so much into it.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
I we say a prayer before we go out every night,
and the theme of this tour, you know, because we've
played this set almost one hundred times now, the exact
same set, and so there's a temptation to go autopilot.
But then there's a reminder that I say during the
Prairie night, which is just like it doesn't matter whether
(20:55):
it's you know, the three hundred person show in New
Orleans or it's the other night in Salt Lake, which
is like twenty four hundred people. Everybody gets the same show.
Everybody deserves the same show. I came from a small town.
Not all the concerts of my favorite artists would even
pass through Dallas. A lot of artists ignored Dallas. I
was like, you know, people are showing up in these
places where it's even less common and more inconvenience to
(21:19):
get to a show, and it's not just baked into
a part of daily life like in these bigger cities.
They deserve the exact same show as the people in
the big cities, and often they're even more appreciative of it.
So it's a constant challenge myself to you twenty six
shows in a row. There are days where I when
I feel amazing, and then there are days when I don't.
(21:40):
But regardless, that shouldn't have an impact on the show
that people get or the experience they have.
Speaker 4 (21:45):
You've had some great collaborations. I want you to maybe
talk about some of those people you've collaborated with, and
I want to ask you what do you look for
in a collaboration in a creative partner, for.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Somebody who challenges me and somebody who has complementary skill
sets that maybe I struggle with her have blind spots with.
My favorite collaborator who I'm working with extensively right now
is Rami Yakub, who is a brilliant, brilliant Swedish songwriter
and my one of my favorite humans in the world.
(22:22):
And he just has this common sense understanding of how
a song should be arranged and how the melody should
flow into each other, and how to build tension and
release and suspense and have shapes that are just iconic
within the song. And a lot of times I think
(22:43):
that can bring a sort of method to the madness
that is really solid from and really impressive from a
creative standpoint, and we just work really well together. So yeah,
I think I think it's challenged, and I think somebody
who maybe even sees the world in a different way,
because because if not, why why would I collaborate? You know,
(23:04):
like I could. I could write with myself all day,
but I'm only one me and I only have I
have my little narrow pinhole through which I view the world.
Why not bring in someone who's lived a different life.
Maybe we could challenge each other, Maybe we could have
a different perspective on the same thing and then those
things collide and make something fresh.
Speaker 4 (23:21):
And how about a dream collaboration that would just, you know,
knock you out, man.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
It might be like it might be like a really
fun camp at Shanger Law for the third album, like
a like Rick Rubin, but also bringing in all the
people I've looked up to, Like if it could be
a camp with like I don't know, like Rommy Bellian,
Rick freaking Jeff Basker, Barell like that. To me, it's
(23:55):
how many pots and pants can we bang together? And
like sent Decide was like all this stuff I grew
up on and then also just be around great which
that the thought of that even being possible is just
kind of crazy to me.
Speaker 4 (24:09):
What do you hope listeners take away from your music?
Speaker 2 (24:15):
I just want people to feel heard, and I don't
want I don't want people to feel as if their
unique internal experience separates them from the rest of the
world or from their potential. And I think you can
still create amazing and beautiful and profound things even if
you have something that you feel like slows you down.
(24:38):
And it's really really easy to compare and look at
other people and you can come up with one hundred
reasons you're not good enough. But if you look at
all the people that have made something exceptional, a lot
of them had a lot slowing them down, and sometimes
a lot more than us slowing them down. So I think,
you know, get out of your head, get into the world,
(25:00):
find what you love to do, and if my songs
could be a small part of empowering that, then that's
that's all I want to do.
Speaker 4 (25:09):
Congratulations on the tour on a hometown to see the
story continues.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
Thank you. I just I just have one last question.
Speaker 4 (25:20):
When you're at the point when you're playing stadiums, would
you consider coming back on.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
AR would absolutely just give me a call.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
Thank you man, I really appreciate it. Living Stone's and
an honor.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
Thank you boss, Thank you for your time.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Thanks for listening to this episode of the Taking a
Walk podcast. Share this and other episodes with your friends
and follow us so you never miss an episode. Taking
a Walk is available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
and wherever you get your podcasts.
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