June 29, 2025 • 22 mins
Join Lynn Hoffman for the classic replay with the Founder and CEO of MedRhythms-Brian Harris. Brian truly knows the healing power of music as his company is breaking new ground using music to improve neurological injuries.
A Note to our Community
Your support means everything to us! As we continue to grow, we’d love to hear what guests you might find interesting and what conversations you’d like us to explore next.
Have a friend who might enjoy our conversations? Please share our podcast with them! Your word of mouth recommendations help us reach new listeners that could benefit from our content.
Thank you for being part of our community. We’re excited for what’s ahead! Check out our newest podcast called “Comedy Saved Me” wherever you get your podcasts.
Warmly
Buzz Knight
Founder Buzz Knight Media Productions
Support the show: https://takinawalk.com/
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Music Saved Me.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
We're understanding in a much more objective way the power
of music on the human brain. Do we know that
it activates our brain like nothing else on earth? You
know that when you just listen to music, the parts
of your brain that are responsible for movement, language, attention, memory, emotion,
all of these things are activated when we just listen
to music. And there's nothing else on earth that activates
(00:22):
our brain like music does.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
I'm Lyn Hoffman, and welcome and thank you so much
for joining us for another episode of the Music Saved
Me Podcast, the podcast where we discuss the healing powers
of music with artists and musicians. Now, if you like
this podcast, we think you'll like our companion podcast called
Taken a Walk, hosted by the awesome buzz Night. Now,
today we're taking a slightly different angle with our discussion,
(00:46):
because today we get to talk about the actual scientific
connection of music's healing powers with one get this of
only two hundred and fifty music therapy fellows in the
world and the creator of the first ever FDA approved
prescription music product for stroke victims, mister Brian Harris, who
(01:06):
is also the CEO of med Rhythms, a company he
founded after carving out a quite remarkable career as a
neurological music therapist. Brian Harris, Welcome to Music Saved Me.
Speaker 4 (01:17):
Well, thank you so much. It's really an honor to
be here.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Well, this is fascinating stuff because everyone understands that music
can be very powerful as a tool, but it would
seem that you have proven, beyond a shadow of a
doubt that the healing power of music is really far
bigger than anyone could have ever imagined.
Speaker 4 (01:33):
Am I right, Yeah, it's really incredible.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
I think all of us as humans have the experience
where music has changed us in some way. It's made
us feel emotions, happy, sad, etc. But now, through the
advancements of neurotechnology, neuroimaging, neuroscience, we can begin to understand
music in a completely different way. And that way is
really through the objective power that it has to impact
(01:57):
our brain, which is much bigger than I think what
we expected or what we've known to date. And it's
really an exciting time to be doing this work.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
It sure is now I've read I'm going to go
a little out of order here because usually I like
to start at the beginning, like where were you when
things first began. But I read something so powerful yesterday
that I have to share it with our audience. You said,
you believe that right now, what you and your colleagues
know about the power of music through the lens of
neuroscience and what you're seeing in real clinical practice, is
(02:26):
that music will change the future of global healthcare. Can
you explain to us exactly what that means, because it
sounds so exciting and promising.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
Yeah, it is very exciting.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
And I think when we think about that very statement
that I make in a lot of my presentations when
I talk about the science, is I believe to my
core that it will change.
Speaker 4 (02:45):
The future landscape of global healthcare.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Because number one, we're understanding in a much more objective
way the power of music on the human brain. That
we know that it activates our brain like nothing else
on earth. You know that when you just listen to music,
the parts of your brain that are wasponsible for movement, language, attention, memory, emotion,
all of these things are activated when we just listen
to music. And there's nothing else on earth that activates
(03:09):
our brain like music does. But it's also been shown
that when you engage in music, so when we actually
provide these interventions to our patients that have diagnoses across
the board from stroke, Parkinson's disease, multiple scrosses, whatever it
might be, that we can actually improve those functions that
I just mentioned. So we can help somebody to walk
better with the power of music, we can help somebody
(03:31):
speak better with the power of music. And this is
through objective science that we can see these outcomes. And
so when you think about the broad applicability of how
music impacts our brain and literally how it can be
applied to our patients across the board with a number
of disease states, the power is there to change the
landscape of healthcare.
Speaker 4 (03:50):
We just have to implement it the right way.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
So if we could rewind, because that's just incredible news,
and I'm sure a lot of people are very perked
up right now to think about the application. Do you
remember and we're going to get to that, by the way,
I want to talk about all of this stuff, but
first I want to know when your first personal connection
with music was and how it impacted you and made
you really get interested in it.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Yeah, I've always been a musician. I've loved to play.
I grew up as a violist first and then learned
to play the drums and became a drum set player
and just really loved that. And for me, when I
think about the moment, there was a singular moment that
actually changed my life when I witnessed the power of
music that really threw me down to this trajectory to
try to answer these questions and try to bring this
(04:36):
to people. And that moment was when I was in
my undergrad I went to the University of Maine and
I took an online course in music therapy that at
the time was taught by the only private practicing music
therapist in the state of Maine, so there was very
very few people that were doing this work. And I
had an opportunity to intern with him one summer, and
(04:58):
he was working with children and adults with severe developmental delays.
And the very first time I ever witnessed music therapy
in the presence of one of his clients. He was
working with an eighteen year old that was physically and
cognitively functioning at about a one year old level, so
he was wheelchair round, couldn't speak, really had limited interactions
(05:22):
with his environment at all. And this music therapist was
not trained at the time in the neuroscience of music,
but began to do live music with this boy, and
within about ten minutes of him being in the presence
of this music, he began to cognitively function at a
higher level than what anybody in his life had seen before.
So literally, his family and the people that worked with
(05:43):
him every day came in the room and they were
in tears because they couldn't believe how this boy was functioning.
And it was at that moment in time that literally
changed my life because I said, a I need to
be using music in this way. This is my calling
in life. And number two, if we can understand how
this happened, And while witnessing this in real time was
(06:04):
really a magical thing to witness, right, But I said,
there must be a reason why his brain allowed himself
to respond this way to music. And if we can
answer that question, that's when we can really harness the
power of music and then replicate it to help a
lot of people. So not trying to take the feeling out,
but take the magic out and put the science in
(06:26):
so that we replicate it with more people.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
Well, how did your career path after that happen take
you to Spalding Rehabilitation Hospital in Boston, which really was
the genesis of men rhythms, right.
Speaker 4 (06:37):
Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
After that moment, I decided that I was going to
get a master's degree in music therapy, to become a
board certified music therapist and really focus all of my
energy on understanding the neuroscience of music, but more specifically
than just the neuroscience of music, but really understanding how
it can be clinically applied, which is through a sector
of the field that's called neurologic music therapy that does
(07:00):
just that. And so I spent a lot of time
and energy learning and focusing on that, and then went
to Spalding and I was very fortunate enough to get
an internship there, and then they turned that internship into
a full time role, and it was in that role
of building their music therapy program. I was working primarily
with stroke and brain injury patients. And after I started
(07:22):
their program there, what we were seeing was that patients
were getting better, faster, with greater results. And we now
had the neuroscience to not only explain how it was possible,
but also how we could standardize and replicate it so
we could tell you here's why this patient's able to
walk better, faster, etc. When we do this intervention, and
here's how we can replicate this intervention with different patients,
(07:45):
and we would see these replicable outcomes. And so very
quickly after I started that program, that demand for the
services within the hospital, so from doctors who are asking
me to see their patients, but also from patients and
their family members who were saying, you know, Brian, you
helped my dad walk again.
Speaker 4 (08:00):
How do I get more of this when I leave
the hospital?
Speaker 2 (08:03):
And at the time when I was delivering this care
in the hospital, the answer was there's nothing you can do.
And really, you know, as a clinician, that was really
an awful conversation they have with patients and their family
members on a regular basis. And so it was really
based upon those results that we were seeing in the
clinic and the demand that we were seeing that we
started med Rhythms really around that fundamental mission of how
(08:24):
can we bring this important care from inside the hospital
to patients around the world that we believe not only
need it, but really fundamentally deserve to have access to it.
Speaker 4 (08:32):
And that was really the genesis of the company.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
Yeah, Well, first of all, I don't know how many
of us, even hearing you talk right now, knew that
there was anything like music therapy that was offered, let
alone all the way up the chain into neuroscience and
what you're doing. So congratulations on bringing it to the forefront.
I want to talk about med rhythms and how neuroscience
(08:57):
and music intersect, specifically intersect, because it's fascinating and I'm
guessing it's like in your company name, rhythm has a
lot to do with it.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Yeah, rhythm has a lot to do with it, and
rhythm is a primary driver of the brain functions in
terms of how we see outcomes. It's a really important
queue for the human brain that allows it to function
more efficiently and activates parts of the brain that other
things can't.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Can you give it?
Speaker 3 (09:26):
I heard you speak about things like live preferred music
and neuroplasticity, and I know that's very scientific for people
listening right.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Now, they're like, oh, wait a minute, what are you
talking about?
Speaker 3 (09:36):
But I mean a specific example maybe of what you've
witnessed beyond what we just talked about in terms of
using your product, which we're going to get to exactly
what it is, but rhythms, meaning like people walking on
a rhythm, or how certain things connect in the brain
to make you understand that you need to do more
with your speech or your movement after suffering from a stroke.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Yeah, So what's really amazing about the power of music,
and if we think about rhythms specifically, what the research
shows is that when we as humans and these are
this is objective neuroscience, so regardless of age or culture,
or ability or disability, everybody's brain objectively responds the same
to music. And when we think about rhythm, what's really
(10:21):
exciting about that is what the research shows is that
when we hear an external rhythm in our environment, like
the rhythm of music, that it activates the auditory system
of the human brain. So the part of your brain
that's responsible for hearing because you hear the rhythm, but
that the auditory system and the motor system, so the
part of your brain that's responsible for movement are actually
richly connected at both what we call the conscious and
(10:45):
the subconscious levels in the brain, such that you can
use an external rhythm to activate the motor system or
the part of your brain that's responsible for movement.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Can give me an example of that real yes.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
And so what this means for typically for people who
are neurologically healthy, is that that's the reason why when
we listen to music that has a strong beat to it,
we want to tap our feet, we want to move
our bodies, we want to tap our fingers. That's not
an emotional reaction to music. That's the rhythm literally telling
our motor system to fire. And if you ever wanted
(11:17):
to actually test this out, I would encourage you to either,
you know, listen to music that has a strong beat
to it, try to tap along to the beat of
the music.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
You'll be able to do that very easily and quickly.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
And then if you try to do the same thing
but not tap along to the beat of the music,
it's nearly impossible for you to not entrain what we
call entrainment, which is like moving to the beat.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
Of the music.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
It's nearly impossible because the rhythm is literally giving your
motor system a signal to fire. And in order for
you to not move along to the rhythm, you actually
have to come up with some sort of strategy cognitively
to not listen to what's in your environment. So what's
amazing about that is that That also applies to those
who have damage to the motor system stroke, Parkinson's disease, etc.
(12:04):
We can use an external rhythm to engage the part
of their brain that's responsible for movement, and when we
do that, it improves their walking ability, it improves their
clinical outcomes.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
And what about with speech, because I do know that
stroke sufferers do have a really hard time expressing what
they're thinking in their mind getting it out of their mouth,
and that's going to be extremely frustrating for people who
are still in the prime of their lives trying to
get through it.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
This is going to be a game changer for people.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Yeah, And as we think specifically about language, what's really
fascinating is that these patients who have it's called aphasia
as a clinical term, that which is the inability to
speak language. But we've noticed that many times people who
can't speak can sing. So they have no expressive language,
but they could sing lines of songs. And the reason
(12:56):
why that is is because, as I mentioned earlier, music
really activates the entire brain, and the speech center of
the brain is localized to one very specific area. So
if there's damage to that speech center, we can use
music to activate the rest of the brain to help
improve the language outcomes and essentially teach the brain to
(13:19):
use the undamaged parts of the brain to speak language.
So we teach people to speak again through what looks
like singing.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
That's incredible, absolutely incredible. You and your team, as I
mentioned upfront in the intro, created the first product for this.
I can't even believe I'm saying it, but you created
the first product for stroke survivors listed with the FDA.
Can you tell us about the world's first prescription music product,
now there's a prescription I would.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Like, Yeah, it's certainly it's an exciting moment for us.
I mean, especially as a as a music therapist to
be bringing the science but also bringing this application into
the world and the The product that we've built is
a product that's called our first product for chronic stroke survivors,
is called in Tandem, and it essentially uses rhythm to
(14:08):
help patients improve their walking who have had a stroke.
And it uses an intervention that's called rhythmic auditory stimulation.
Speaker 4 (14:17):
So we're using rhythm to activate.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
The auditory system, which act activates the part of the
brain that's responsible for a movement to improve those outcomes.
As we were building the product, we did multiple successful
clinical trials, so we believe that it worked. I saw
that it would work in clinic when I was doing
it with live music treating patients in the hospital, And
essentially I taught the product how to think like a
(14:40):
clinician because we wanted it to be able to be
delivered autonomously in the home setting, without the need of
a clinician to be present. So we built a product
that has sensors that connect to the shoe that collect
clinical grade data about how patients are walking. That data
feeds into an algorithm that's based upon a mobile device,
and then we deliver music via Ahead fund and the
(15:01):
core being these algorithms where I essentially I taught the algorithm.
You know, when you see X data from the walking,
do why with the music? When you see why data
come in, do zee with the music. And because of that,
it can be an autonomous system where every patient gets
a customize intervention based upon how they're walking in that moment.
But we had to go through multiple successful clinical trials
(15:23):
really in a clinically rigorous way, right, because if we're
going to claim about the product or we want it
to be used with patients. It's really important for us
that we believe that it can work and that we
prove that it can work. And so we did multiple
successful clinical trials there and then we were able to
list it with the FDA as a Class two prescription
medical device, and then you know, now on our way
(15:45):
to actually bringing it to patients who needed and that's
a very long process. I set it in about thirty seconds.
That's a very long, years long process to get through that,
to demonstrate its efficacy, and now we're at a point
where we can begin to bring into the patients who
need it.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
Brian, I watched a video from twenty eighteen where you
showed someone who had survived a stroke walking with a
lot of help doing therapy, and minutes after you did
a test with them with that rhythm, the therapy that
you were talking about. This is back in twenty eighteen,
and they showed him walking totally different, like immediate, It
(16:21):
was almost immediate. So after seeing that, I was I
just can't even describe to you what I was thinking.
And I here we are twenty twenty five, and you're
like on the cusp of everything exploding in such a
fantastic way. Another thing that gets me excited is you
have a collaboration with a number of partners, including Universal
Music who is incredible too.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
Can you tell us about that.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
I'm like, I'm tearing up here because I'm just thinking
about the applications and how many people you're gonna help
and it's phenomenal.
Speaker 4 (16:50):
Well, I appreciate the comment.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
It's exciting for us too, and you know, our partnership
with Universal Music Group has been amazing. And you know,
we use music obviously as we deliver for the intervention,
and what the research shows is that if you can
do rhythmic auditory stimulation, so this intervention with music that
people like, it actually enhances the clinical outcomes. But also,
in addition to enhancing the clinical outcomes, we want people
(17:14):
to do this on their own and their home, so
we want it to be engaging and we want it
to be motivating, and so we worked with Universal Music
Group to actually get access to their catalog of music,
so you know a number of different artists that patients
can choose from, so they get to choose the music
that they love, and then our algorithms essentially make it
therapeutically valuable for them and it's really been an honor
(17:36):
to work. I mean for me coming up from a
musician's background becoming a clinician, to have the music industry
engage what we're doing in what we're doing in such
a profound and exciting way. UMG has just been amazing
partners to us. I mean, they've made it very clear
that they care about our patients, which is what I
care about the most, but that they're supporting us across
(17:58):
the board. And that's really been an amazing partnership from us.
Because we're also as we build the product, right, you know,
we have to demonstrate the music aspect. We have to
demonstrate the clinical efficacy. You know, this is not just
here's a random playlist for you to listen to while
you walk, because we know that that doesn't work to
yield outcomes. We have to pair the user experience and
the music with our own clinical algorithms to show that
(18:22):
we can actually make a clinical change in these patients' lives.
Speaker 4 (18:25):
And UMG has been a really important part of.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
That certainly, and such exciting stuff to look forward to.
Can I what does it look like the device? I
know that sounds like an odd question, but I'm trying
to envision what this is. Is it just like an
earpiece or yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
So the kit has three components. There's two biomechanical footborn sensors,
so they actually are small sensors that are I guess
about the size of two thumbs together. That clip onto
any shoe, so a patient can wear any shoe that
they want, as long as a safe shoe for them
(19:01):
to wear. Clip the sensor on. Then there's a mobile device,
so a small mobile device that has just our application
on it. And then there's a set of headphones. All
of that is Bluetooth connected. Before a patient gets in,
so all they have to do is open the product
and put it on. So they connect the sensor one
(19:22):
to each shoe, they start the program on the mobile device,
and then they put the headphones on they begin to walk.
As they begin to walk, the sensors are collecting the
data about how they're walking, which is all the things
that I would be looking at as a clinician if
I was treating a patient.
Speaker 4 (19:38):
That data is feeding.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
Into the algorithm, and then the music that they hear
is changing based upon how they're walking, and throughout a
real thirty minute session, the music's changing to actually drive
them to walk faster with better quality. So it's pushing
them again, it's not just a random playlist. It's actually
modifying what they're hearing such that it's pushing them to
(20:00):
improve their walking speed and their walking quality.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
Now, not just stroke victims, Brian's helping with auditory issues
and mobile issues, but also I read something about the
potential breakthroughs in Parkinson's. Do you see that on the horizon?
Speaker 2 (20:15):
Yeah, it's an exciting time as we think about what
the real power here is of music. And as I mentioned,
we've seen it practically as we're treating patients clinically across
a number of diagnoses that this can be really helpful
for them. At med Rhythms, we've developed a product that
does rhythmic auditory stimulation for walking, and we've done two
(20:35):
successful clinical trials thus far in Parkinson's disease and are
working through what the next steps may look like for
that product as well. So it's exciting as we continue
to expand across these diagnosis to really understand what the
power of this could be.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
Wow, the power of this is just exponential in the world,
and we're right on the precipice right now with AI
exploding in ways that we haven't even begun to realize
that are going to be so incredibly helpful to us,
and we shouldn't be scared of it. We should embrace it.
It's only going to help us. It's like taking a
vitamin supplement. This is just going to supplement all the
things that we do to the one hundredth power. And
(21:14):
you're doing it. You're living proof, which is incredible. So first,
I'm not worthy to even have you on the show.
I mean, I feel like I'm humbled by what you're doing,
and I'm so excited for you and your team in
the future. And if there's any way that we can
help move that needle with you in the future by
any means, we'd love to partner with you on that.
(21:35):
And thank you for the amazing work of med Rhythms
and for coming on music Save Me to talk about
it is how can our listeners learn more before I
let you go?
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Well, I appreciate that, and I just want to say
it's an honor for me to be here, and it's
an honor for me to do this work. Every day
I get excited and I feel privileged that I have
the opportunity to be using music in this way and
more importantly, doing what we can to make an impact
in the lives of people.
Speaker 4 (21:58):
Who need it.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
People want to learn more about the company, they can
go to www. Dot Medrhythms dot com and we also
have our first product is called in Tandem. They can
also go to in tandemarx dot com as well to
learn more about that specific product.
Speaker 3 (22:13):
And I also want to let everyone know that you're
not paying to be on this show. This is not
a commercial for your product. This is really collaborative people
who want to help the greater good coming together to
share to hopefully change lives for the better.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
And so I thank you for that as well.
Speaker 4 (22:32):
Yeah, thank you. It's certainly an honor and a privilege,
So thank you very much.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Thanks to meet you, Brian
Music Saved Me.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
We're understanding in a much more objective way the power
of music on the human brain. Do we know that
it activates our brain like nothing else on earth? You
know that when you just listen to music, the parts
of your brain that are responsible for movement, language, attention, memory, emotion,
all of these things are activated when we just listen
to music. And there's nothing else on earth that activates
(00:22):
our brain like music does.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
I'm Lyn Hoffman, and welcome and thank you so much
for joining us for another episode of the Music Saved
Me Podcast, the podcast where we discuss the healing powers
of music with artists and musicians. Now, if you like
this podcast, we think you'll like our companion podcast called
Taken a Walk, hosted by the awesome buzz Night. Now,
today we're taking a slightly different angle with our discussion,
(00:46):
because today we get to talk about the actual scientific
connection of music's healing powers with one get this of
only two hundred and fifty music therapy fellows in the
world and the creator of the first ever FDA approved
prescription music product for stroke victims, mister Brian Harris, who
(01:06):
is also the CEO of med Rhythms, a company he
founded after carving out a quite remarkable career as a
neurological music therapist. Brian Harris, Welcome to Music Saved Me.
Speaker 4 (01:17):
Well, thank you so much. It's really an honor to
be here.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Well, this is fascinating stuff because everyone understands that music
can be very powerful as a tool, but it would
seem that you have proven, beyond a shadow of a
doubt that the healing power of music is really far
bigger than anyone could have ever imagined.
Speaker 4 (01:33):
Am I right, Yeah, it's really incredible.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
I think all of us as humans have the experience
where music has changed us in some way. It's made
us feel emotions, happy, sad, etc. But now, through the
advancements of neurotechnology, neuroimaging, neuroscience, we can begin to understand
music in a completely different way. And that way is
really through the objective power that it has to impact
(01:57):
our brain, which is much bigger than I think what
we expected or what we've known to date. And it's
really an exciting time to be doing this work.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
It sure is now I've read I'm going to go
a little out of order here because usually I like
to start at the beginning, like where were you when
things first began. But I read something so powerful yesterday
that I have to share it with our audience. You said,
you believe that right now, what you and your colleagues
know about the power of music through the lens of
neuroscience and what you're seeing in real clinical practice, is
(02:26):
that music will change the future of global healthcare. Can
you explain to us exactly what that means, because it
sounds so exciting and promising.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
Yeah, it is very exciting.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
And I think when we think about that very statement
that I make in a lot of my presentations when
I talk about the science, is I believe to my
core that it will change.
Speaker 4 (02:45):
The future landscape of global healthcare.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Because number one, we're understanding in a much more objective
way the power of music on the human brain. That
we know that it activates our brain like nothing else
on earth. You know that when you just listen to music,
the parts of your brain that are wasponsible for movement, language, attention, memory, emotion,
all of these things are activated when we just listen
to music. And there's nothing else on earth that activates
(03:09):
our brain like music does. But it's also been shown
that when you engage in music, so when we actually
provide these interventions to our patients that have diagnoses across
the board from stroke, Parkinson's disease, multiple scrosses, whatever it
might be, that we can actually improve those functions that
I just mentioned. So we can help somebody to walk
better with the power of music, we can help somebody
(03:31):
speak better with the power of music. And this is
through objective science that we can see these outcomes. And
so when you think about the broad applicability of how
music impacts our brain and literally how it can be
applied to our patients across the board with a number
of disease states, the power is there to change the
landscape of healthcare.
Speaker 4 (03:50):
We just have to implement it the right way.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
So if we could rewind, because that's just incredible news,
and I'm sure a lot of people are very perked
up right now to think about the application. Do you
remember and we're going to get to that, by the way,
I want to talk about all of this stuff, but
first I want to know when your first personal connection
with music was and how it impacted you and made
you really get interested in it.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Yeah, I've always been a musician. I've loved to play.
I grew up as a violist first and then learned
to play the drums and became a drum set player
and just really loved that. And for me, when I
think about the moment, there was a singular moment that
actually changed my life when I witnessed the power of
music that really threw me down to this trajectory to
try to answer these questions and try to bring this
(04:36):
to people. And that moment was when I was in
my undergrad I went to the University of Maine and
I took an online course in music therapy that at
the time was taught by the only private practicing music
therapist in the state of Maine, so there was very
very few people that were doing this work. And I
had an opportunity to intern with him one summer, and
(04:58):
he was working with children and adults with severe developmental delays.
And the very first time I ever witnessed music therapy
in the presence of one of his clients. He was
working with an eighteen year old that was physically and
cognitively functioning at about a one year old level, so
he was wheelchair round, couldn't speak, really had limited interactions
(05:22):
with his environment at all. And this music therapist was
not trained at the time in the neuroscience of music,
but began to do live music with this boy, and
within about ten minutes of him being in the presence
of this music, he began to cognitively function at a
higher level than what anybody in his life had seen before.
So literally, his family and the people that worked with
(05:43):
him every day came in the room and they were
in tears because they couldn't believe how this boy was functioning.
And it was at that moment in time that literally
changed my life because I said, a I need to
be using music in this way. This is my calling
in life. And number two, if we can understand how
this happened, And while witnessing this in real time was
(06:04):
really a magical thing to witness, right, But I said,
there must be a reason why his brain allowed himself
to respond this way to music. And if we can
answer that question, that's when we can really harness the
power of music and then replicate it to help a
lot of people. So not trying to take the feeling out,
but take the magic out and put the science in
(06:26):
so that we replicate it with more people.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
Well, how did your career path after that happen take
you to Spalding Rehabilitation Hospital in Boston, which really was
the genesis of men rhythms, right.
Speaker 4 (06:37):
Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
After that moment, I decided that I was going to
get a master's degree in music therapy, to become a
board certified music therapist and really focus all of my
energy on understanding the neuroscience of music, but more specifically
than just the neuroscience of music, but really understanding how
it can be clinically applied, which is through a sector
of the field that's called neurologic music therapy that does
(07:00):
just that. And so I spent a lot of time
and energy learning and focusing on that, and then went
to Spalding and I was very fortunate enough to get
an internship there, and then they turned that internship into
a full time role, and it was in that role
of building their music therapy program. I was working primarily
with stroke and brain injury patients. And after I started
(07:22):
their program there, what we were seeing was that patients
were getting better, faster, with greater results. And we now
had the neuroscience to not only explain how it was possible,
but also how we could standardize and replicate it so
we could tell you here's why this patient's able to
walk better, faster, etc. When we do this intervention, and
here's how we can replicate this intervention with different patients,
(07:45):
and we would see these replicable outcomes. And so very
quickly after I started that program, that demand for the
services within the hospital, so from doctors who are asking
me to see their patients, but also from patients and
their family members who were saying, you know, Brian, you
helped my dad walk again.
Speaker 4 (08:00):
How do I get more of this when I leave
the hospital?
Speaker 2 (08:03):
And at the time when I was delivering this care
in the hospital, the answer was there's nothing you can do.
And really, you know, as a clinician, that was really
an awful conversation they have with patients and their family
members on a regular basis. And so it was really
based upon those results that we were seeing in the
clinic and the demand that we were seeing that we
started med Rhythms really around that fundamental mission of how
(08:24):
can we bring this important care from inside the hospital
to patients around the world that we believe not only
need it, but really fundamentally deserve to have access to it.
Speaker 4 (08:32):
And that was really the genesis of the company.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
Yeah, Well, first of all, I don't know how many
of us, even hearing you talk right now, knew that
there was anything like music therapy that was offered, let
alone all the way up the chain into neuroscience and
what you're doing. So congratulations on bringing it to the forefront.
I want to talk about med rhythms and how neuroscience
(08:57):
and music intersect, specifically intersect, because it's fascinating and I'm
guessing it's like in your company name, rhythm has a
lot to do with it.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Yeah, rhythm has a lot to do with it, and
rhythm is a primary driver of the brain functions in
terms of how we see outcomes. It's a really important
queue for the human brain that allows it to function
more efficiently and activates parts of the brain that other
things can't.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Can you give it?
Speaker 3 (09:26):
I heard you speak about things like live preferred music
and neuroplasticity, and I know that's very scientific for people
listening right.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Now, they're like, oh, wait a minute, what are you
talking about?
Speaker 3 (09:36):
But I mean a specific example maybe of what you've
witnessed beyond what we just talked about in terms of
using your product, which we're going to get to exactly
what it is, but rhythms, meaning like people walking on
a rhythm, or how certain things connect in the brain
to make you understand that you need to do more
with your speech or your movement after suffering from a stroke.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Yeah, So what's really amazing about the power of music,
and if we think about rhythms specifically, what the research
shows is that when we as humans and these are
this is objective neuroscience, so regardless of age or culture,
or ability or disability, everybody's brain objectively responds the same
to music. And when we think about rhythm, what's really
(10:21):
exciting about that is what the research shows is that
when we hear an external rhythm in our environment, like
the rhythm of music, that it activates the auditory system
of the human brain. So the part of your brain
that's responsible for hearing because you hear the rhythm, but
that the auditory system and the motor system, so the
part of your brain that's responsible for movement are actually
richly connected at both what we call the conscious and
(10:45):
the subconscious levels in the brain, such that you can
use an external rhythm to activate the motor system or
the part of your brain that's responsible for movement.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Can give me an example of that real yes.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
And so what this means for typically for people who
are neurologically healthy, is that that's the reason why when
we listen to music that has a strong beat to it,
we want to tap our feet, we want to move
our bodies, we want to tap our fingers. That's not
an emotional reaction to music. That's the rhythm literally telling
our motor system to fire. And if you ever wanted
(11:17):
to actually test this out, I would encourage you to either,
you know, listen to music that has a strong beat
to it, try to tap along to the beat of
the music.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
You'll be able to do that very easily and quickly.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
And then if you try to do the same thing
but not tap along to the beat of the music,
it's nearly impossible for you to not entrain what we
call entrainment, which is like moving to the beat.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
Of the music.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
It's nearly impossible because the rhythm is literally giving your
motor system a signal to fire. And in order for
you to not move along to the rhythm, you actually
have to come up with some sort of strategy cognitively
to not listen to what's in your environment. So what's
amazing about that is that That also applies to those
who have damage to the motor system stroke, Parkinson's disease, etc.
(12:04):
We can use an external rhythm to engage the part
of their brain that's responsible for movement, and when we
do that, it improves their walking ability, it improves their
clinical outcomes.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
And what about with speech, because I do know that
stroke sufferers do have a really hard time expressing what
they're thinking in their mind getting it out of their mouth,
and that's going to be extremely frustrating for people who
are still in the prime of their lives trying to
get through it.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
This is going to be a game changer for people.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Yeah, And as we think specifically about language, what's really
fascinating is that these patients who have it's called aphasia
as a clinical term, that which is the inability to
speak language. But we've noticed that many times people who
can't speak can sing. So they have no expressive language,
but they could sing lines of songs. And the reason
(12:56):
why that is is because, as I mentioned earlier, music
really activates the entire brain, and the speech center of
the brain is localized to one very specific area. So
if there's damage to that speech center, we can use
music to activate the rest of the brain to help
improve the language outcomes and essentially teach the brain to
(13:19):
use the undamaged parts of the brain to speak language.
So we teach people to speak again through what looks
like singing.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
That's incredible, absolutely incredible. You and your team, as I
mentioned upfront in the intro, created the first product for this.
I can't even believe I'm saying it, but you created
the first product for stroke survivors listed with the FDA.
Can you tell us about the world's first prescription music product,
now there's a prescription I would.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Like, Yeah, it's certainly it's an exciting moment for us.
I mean, especially as a as a music therapist to
be bringing the science but also bringing this application into
the world and the The product that we've built is
a product that's called our first product for chronic stroke survivors,
is called in Tandem, and it essentially uses rhythm to
(14:08):
help patients improve their walking who have had a stroke.
And it uses an intervention that's called rhythmic auditory stimulation.
Speaker 4 (14:17):
So we're using rhythm to activate.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
The auditory system, which act activates the part of the
brain that's responsible for a movement to improve those outcomes.
As we were building the product, we did multiple successful
clinical trials, so we believe that it worked. I saw
that it would work in clinic when I was doing
it with live music treating patients in the hospital, And
essentially I taught the product how to think like a
(14:40):
clinician because we wanted it to be able to be
delivered autonomously in the home setting, without the need of
a clinician to be present. So we built a product
that has sensors that connect to the shoe that collect
clinical grade data about how patients are walking. That data
feeds into an algorithm that's based upon a mobile device,
and then we deliver music via Ahead fund and the
(15:01):
core being these algorithms where I essentially I taught the algorithm.
You know, when you see X data from the walking,
do why with the music? When you see why data
come in, do zee with the music. And because of that,
it can be an autonomous system where every patient gets
a customize intervention based upon how they're walking in that moment.
But we had to go through multiple successful clinical trials
(15:23):
really in a clinically rigorous way, right, because if we're
going to claim about the product or we want it
to be used with patients. It's really important for us
that we believe that it can work and that we
prove that it can work. And so we did multiple
successful clinical trials there and then we were able to
list it with the FDA as a Class two prescription
medical device, and then you know, now on our way
(15:45):
to actually bringing it to patients who needed and that's
a very long process. I set it in about thirty seconds.
That's a very long, years long process to get through that,
to demonstrate its efficacy, and now we're at a point
where we can begin to bring into the patients who
need it.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
Brian, I watched a video from twenty eighteen where you
showed someone who had survived a stroke walking with a
lot of help doing therapy, and minutes after you did
a test with them with that rhythm, the therapy that
you were talking about. This is back in twenty eighteen,
and they showed him walking totally different, like immediate, It
(16:21):
was almost immediate. So after seeing that, I was I
just can't even describe to you what I was thinking.
And I here we are twenty twenty five, and you're
like on the cusp of everything exploding in such a
fantastic way. Another thing that gets me excited is you
have a collaboration with a number of partners, including Universal
Music who is incredible too.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
Can you tell us about that.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
I'm like, I'm tearing up here because I'm just thinking
about the applications and how many people you're gonna help
and it's phenomenal.
Speaker 4 (16:50):
Well, I appreciate the comment.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
It's exciting for us too, and you know, our partnership
with Universal Music Group has been amazing. And you know,
we use music obviously as we deliver for the intervention,
and what the research shows is that if you can
do rhythmic auditory stimulation, so this intervention with music that
people like, it actually enhances the clinical outcomes. But also,
in addition to enhancing the clinical outcomes, we want people
(17:14):
to do this on their own and their home, so
we want it to be engaging and we want it
to be motivating, and so we worked with Universal Music
Group to actually get access to their catalog of music,
so you know a number of different artists that patients
can choose from, so they get to choose the music
that they love, and then our algorithms essentially make it
therapeutically valuable for them and it's really been an honor
(17:36):
to work. I mean for me coming up from a
musician's background becoming a clinician, to have the music industry
engage what we're doing in what we're doing in such
a profound and exciting way. UMG has just been amazing
partners to us. I mean, they've made it very clear
that they care about our patients, which is what I
care about the most, but that they're supporting us across
(17:58):
the board. And that's really been an amazing partnership from us.
Because we're also as we build the product, right, you know,
we have to demonstrate the music aspect. We have to
demonstrate the clinical efficacy. You know, this is not just
here's a random playlist for you to listen to while
you walk, because we know that that doesn't work to
yield outcomes. We have to pair the user experience and
the music with our own clinical algorithms to show that
(18:22):
we can actually make a clinical change in these patients' lives.
Speaker 4 (18:25):
And UMG has been a really important part of.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
That certainly, and such exciting stuff to look forward to.
Can I what does it look like the device? I
know that sounds like an odd question, but I'm trying
to envision what this is. Is it just like an
earpiece or yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
So the kit has three components. There's two biomechanical footborn sensors,
so they actually are small sensors that are I guess
about the size of two thumbs together. That clip onto
any shoe, so a patient can wear any shoe that
they want, as long as a safe shoe for them
(19:01):
to wear. Clip the sensor on. Then there's a mobile device,
so a small mobile device that has just our application
on it. And then there's a set of headphones. All
of that is Bluetooth connected. Before a patient gets in,
so all they have to do is open the product
and put it on. So they connect the sensor one
(19:22):
to each shoe, they start the program on the mobile device,
and then they put the headphones on they begin to walk.
As they begin to walk, the sensors are collecting the
data about how they're walking, which is all the things
that I would be looking at as a clinician if
I was treating a patient.
Speaker 4 (19:38):
That data is feeding.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
Into the algorithm, and then the music that they hear
is changing based upon how they're walking, and throughout a
real thirty minute session, the music's changing to actually drive
them to walk faster with better quality. So it's pushing
them again, it's not just a random playlist. It's actually
modifying what they're hearing such that it's pushing them to
(20:00):
improve their walking speed and their walking quality.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
Now, not just stroke victims, Brian's helping with auditory issues
and mobile issues, but also I read something about the
potential breakthroughs in Parkinson's. Do you see that on the horizon?
Speaker 2 (20:15):
Yeah, it's an exciting time as we think about what
the real power here is of music. And as I mentioned,
we've seen it practically as we're treating patients clinically across
a number of diagnoses that this can be really helpful
for them. At med Rhythms, we've developed a product that
does rhythmic auditory stimulation for walking, and we've done two
(20:35):
successful clinical trials thus far in Parkinson's disease and are
working through what the next steps may look like for
that product as well. So it's exciting as we continue
to expand across these diagnosis to really understand what the
power of this could be.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
Wow, the power of this is just exponential in the world,
and we're right on the precipice right now with AI
exploding in ways that we haven't even begun to realize
that are going to be so incredibly helpful to us,
and we shouldn't be scared of it. We should embrace it.
It's only going to help us. It's like taking a
vitamin supplement. This is just going to supplement all the
things that we do to the one hundredth power. And
(21:14):
you're doing it. You're living proof, which is incredible. So first,
I'm not worthy to even have you on the show.
I mean, I feel like I'm humbled by what you're doing,
and I'm so excited for you and your team in
the future. And if there's any way that we can
help move that needle with you in the future by
any means, we'd love to partner with you on that.
(21:35):
And thank you for the amazing work of med Rhythms
and for coming on music Save Me to talk about
it is how can our listeners learn more before I
let you go?
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Well, I appreciate that, and I just want to say
it's an honor for me to be here, and it's
an honor for me to do this work. Every day
I get excited and I feel privileged that I have
the opportunity to be using music in this way and
more importantly, doing what we can to make an impact
in the lives of people.
Speaker 4 (21:58):
Who need it.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
People want to learn more about the company, they can
go to www. Dot Medrhythms dot com and we also
have our first product is called in Tandem. They can
also go to in tandemarx dot com as well to
learn more about that specific product.
Speaker 3 (22:13):
And I also want to let everyone know that you're
not paying to be on this show. This is not
a commercial for your product. This is really collaborative people
who want to help the greater good coming together to
share to hopefully change lives for the better.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
And so I thank you for that as well.
Speaker 4 (22:32):
Yeah, thank you. It's certainly an honor and a privilege,
So thank you very much.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Thanks to meet you, Brian
Popular Podcasts
United States of Kennedy
United States of Kennedy is a podcast about our cultural fascination with the Kennedy dynasty. Every week, hosts Lyra Smith and George Civeris go into one aspect of the Kennedy story.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com