December 24, 2024 • 40 mins
Happy Holidays from the "Takin ' A Walk" Podcast as we celebrate with our biggest episodes of 2024 with this episode with the iconic musician, John Oates. He has been responsible for some of our generation's biggest songs with his time as part of Hall and Oates and he continues to create great music.
Thanks for your support of our podcast.
Support the show: https://takinawalk.com/
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Taking a Walk.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
I think it's pretty timeless. So some of those songs
are have that already, you know, withstood the test of generations.
Great songs endure. I'm very proud and happy to know
that I was part of something that will endure, and
you know, which is fabulous, and you know it's a
it's a blessing. It's something that most musicians and songwriters
(00:24):
would hope that they would have one much less than
you know, multiple songs that fit that description.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Well.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Welcome to our top five Taking a Walk Podcast holiday countdown,
the top five most downloaded episodes of Taking a Walk
for twenty twenty four.
Speaker 4 (00:40):
I'm buzznight, your host.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
It's my pleasure to welcome for the reveal on the countdown,
Harry Jacobs from the Taking a Walk Music History Desk.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
Healo, Harry, Well, it's pleasure to be here again for this.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
So number four was a super cool one to get
as well. He was revealed information about a new album
that he was putting out. It was off limits to
kind of talk about the most obvious thing which he
had already talked about, and that was the split with
his longtime partner. But nevertheless, it was super cool to
(01:15):
be able to have on Taking a Walk John Oates
of Hall and Oates fame.
Speaker 5 (01:20):
Yeah, I you know, to me, the fact that you
had Daryl Hall and John Oates separately, there was really
something kind of special and very quickly during that split too,
there's a you know, to me, this is a big
get for Taking a Walk to have Hall and Oates
basically within a very short period of time together. And
(01:41):
certainly we all would have had questions about about the split,
but but I'm glad that you did it without doing
anything related to the split. He's a he's a great,
great another great guitar player.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
Right.
Speaker 5 (01:53):
You featured a lot of wonderful guitar players and he's
up there on that list.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
And he's got tremendous respect for America on our roots
and sort of roots music in his own regard, really
intelligent about that and respectful to that past in a
big way.
Speaker 5 (02:09):
And he's also very positive and respectful of Daryl.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
Right.
Speaker 5 (02:13):
I saw him on an interview. I've seen him a
couple of times subsequent to the Taking a Walk interview
we're about to hear, and he's very respectful of Daryl,
and it's to me their history, you know, they found
each other when John was a folk guitar player basically
and Daryl was into soul. And so the history that
got them together, and certainly those first few albums that
(02:37):
before they hit it big before MTV, right the second
iteration of that band, Sarah Smile and Rich Girl. You know,
those songs were are particularly meaningful to me, and he
had obviously he had a huge role in those.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
I love this one as a guest.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Well, but you know what was also funny so in
his own way though he did kind of talk about
the split as aspect of Hall and Oates and here's
how there was a song. There is a song on
his latest album. I believe it's called Sonny Terry and
Brownie McGhee or Sonny Sonny and Brownie. And the truth
(03:18):
of that story about Sonny Terry and Brownie McGhee great,
you know, longtime sort of classic blues players who were
out on the road for many, many years into the
nineteen seventies, I think maybe early nineteen eighties possibly. So
the thing that we all knew about Sonny Terry and
(03:40):
Brownie McGee in those days is they didn't.
Speaker 4 (03:43):
Speak to each other. They just performed.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
So that interesting really, So, I think in his own way,
as John sort of wrote that song and sort of
touched on it a little bit, that was his way
I think of talking a little bit about the past
while staying in the present and in the.
Speaker 5 (04:03):
Future, kind of like Greg Alman and Dicky Betts, Right,
there was someone that ran in between those two guys.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
Absolutely, Yeah, But I love talking to John Oates. It's
the number four most downloaded podcast for Taking a Walk
of twenty twenty four.
Speaker 4 (04:17):
Let's listen to it now.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Well, John Oates, it is a terrific honor to have
you on this virtual edition of Taking a Walk. We're
going to take a walk down memory lane a bit.
We're going to talk about your new project, Reunion. But
I'm grateful to have you on.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Thanks, Thanks, nice to be here.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
So Reunion is the new project the singles out. We
want to get into a lot about that project, but
can you just talk about how the creative process worked
for you for this new Reunion project and any differences
in the creative project to the way you've done it
(04:55):
in the past.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Well, this particular project, I think is in a sense
a culmination of my Nashville experience moving here, being embraced
and participating in a lot of the Americana music, you
know communities, not only in terms of musical relationship or
friendships and all sorts of things like that. So in
(05:18):
a way, I think this record really kind of crystallizes
all those things. There's there's many many of my amazing
musicians who have become my good friends over the years,
who we've recorded and toured together with. You know, people
like Sam Bush, Jerry Douglass, Bayli Fleck, Jim Lauderdale, you
(05:39):
know some great amazing also players like Guthrie Trapped, Tom Bukavac.
So it's really chock full of this kind of all
star cast, Sierra Hall on mandolin, just more recently, Russ Paul,
you know, people like that. I could go on and on,
but it's really and a lot of I think what
makes this record unique too is there's songs on this
(06:02):
record that are that were written a long long time ago,
some some as early as the early nineties and on
up to songs that I knew that someday would see
the light of day, but I didn't have a project
that they seemed to fit. And finally I had this
body of work that seemed to embrace some of these
other songs that have just been sitting around in the
(06:25):
in the archives. So really it's it's I think in
a way, it's a little bit of a retrospective on
my on my singer songwriter side, on my folk acoustic side,
all of which are very important in my in my background,
in my musical DNA.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
And back here you can't quite see it, but there's
a photo of the great John Prime back there from
an album cover, and you do an absolutely beautiful, beautiful
rendition of the song long Monday congratulates on that. Tell
me about what John Prime, that song and his music
(07:05):
means to you.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Well, I think there's a you know, probably you know
a fact, a hidden unknown fact that John was doing,
if not his first album, one of his first albums
at Atlantic Records Atlantic Recording Studios in New York City
in the early seventies with the producer Aarif Martin at
(07:26):
the exact same time that Darryl and I were doing
our first albums in the same studio with the same producer.
So there's a lot lot of synergy there in terms of,
you know, we'd be passing each other in the hallways,
as you know him going to his session or coming
out and vice versa. So, you know, even though I
wasn't super close with John in the later years, we
(07:48):
did play together once or twice, just casually. And I've
just been a huge fan, you know, one of the
great American songwriters. And when I was asked to celebrate
his birth they at the Ryman Auditorium in Nashville a
few months ago. They asked me if I would participate,
and I said, of course, and you know, I picked
long Monday. And then I thought about it, you know,
(08:10):
and I thought, well, here's a challenge, you know, because
I have a great respect for songwriters, so I wouldn't
want to mess with the beauty of his lyrics and
his melody for that matter. So I thought, well, the
only way I can make this my own is by
in terms of the arrangement. So I dug into the arrangement,
and I tried to make the arrangement a little bit
more personal and a little bit more comfortable for me.
(08:31):
And then when I played it live on stage, everyone
seemed to really like it. Then I said, well, I
guess I should record it, So I did, and of
course I included it on the album.
Speaker 4 (08:39):
It really is beautiful.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Thanks. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
Tell me about collaborating with the AJ Crochy Well, it's
a perfect segue because I met AJ Crochey at that
exact John Prime event at the Ryman Auditorium.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
We were put into the same we were assigned the
same dressing room, and of course I I knew of him,
but we had never met, and we hit it off immediately.
He's just got a very very He's a really warm,
engaging guy, and and I could tell from immediately that
there was something going on. We had a reel, you know,
it was very compatible, and I could just sense that
(09:18):
we could do something together. I didn't know what that
was going to be, but we did talk about, you know,
getting together to write. And when we did, I had
this idea for a reunion. I had the concept, I
had the part of the chorus, and I had a
key line. The lights at the party burned bright, but
I'm leaving early tonight, and to me that that kind
(09:39):
of symbolizes the spirit of the whole song. We talked
about it. I told him about my hundred year old
father who gave me the inspiration for this song. We
start discussing, you know, what it's like to really find
the essence of yourself, and of course he related I
think in a lot of ways. Due to the fact
that his father was such a famous and well known
(10:00):
songwriter and he was in the midst of doing a
tour Croachy Sings Crochy, there was a lot going on
that really we were both able to relate to the
idea of the song in our own personal way, and
it really it was beautiful. It flowed really quickly. I
think we wrote the song in a few hours.
Speaker 4 (10:20):
Had you encountered his father through your.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Career, No, not personally, no, but of course I was
a fan.
Speaker 4 (10:26):
What a legacy, right, my god?
Speaker 3 (10:28):
Yeah, I think really in a way it's sad, but
many times people's legacy is more appreciated after they pass away,
and it feels like that was the case with his father.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Well, you know, I think he was also appreciated, you know,
in his own time this you know, he had big hits.
He had big hits with a very kind of acoustic,
folky kind of recording style and which was unusual for
the time, which was great. It made him stand out
for sure.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
So I'll put you on the spot here and ask
you maybe five quintessential albums that have really mattered to
you and had an influence on you.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Well, I don't know where to begin, Okay, Sure, I
would say, you know, going back, the first the first
long playing album LP that I ever heard, other than
early rock and roll single forty five's was Ray Charles,
Ray Charles' greatest hits. And I did not have a
(11:28):
long playing record player at home. I had only had
a little forty five recording record player, and this was
probably late fifties. And I remember a friend of mine's
parents had a console record player and they had this
Rach Charles record and I just absorbed it. You know,
it had what I say, and it had you know,
(11:51):
you know, all some of his early classics, and it
was just it just grabbed me immediately. So I would
definitely say Ray Charles was a huge influence on me.
And then you know, when the folk movement either folk
revival hit in the early sixties, I was exposed to
music that I had never heard from, never heard before,
roots music that was being rediscovered and spread around the
(12:14):
college campuses in the early sixties. So I would say
Dave Van Ronk, who was a big, big influence on
me because I loved his voice. It was so gritty
and he had this powerful personality. Also, the first Doc
Watson record on Vanguard was a real touchdown for me
(12:35):
because it was the first time I heard virtuosic acoustic
guitar playing. So I absorbed that record. I try to learn,
as you know. Eventually over the years I learned all
the songs on the record, but you know, that was
a challenge and a real inspiration for me. And then
you know, you know, there's so many more. The Temptations,
(12:56):
they had a particular live album that was incredible that
they recorded at club somewhere, which was amazing. And then
of course the classic James Brown Live at the Apollo,
which was probably the most kinetic and exciting recording that
I had ever heard. The tempos were all jacked up.
It was it's just James Brown at his best at
the Apollo Theater. And then moving on later on in
(13:19):
the sixties, you know, the band. The band was a
big influence on me and I, you know, and I
just thought that it was music that I had never
heard before. It was a style of music, but I
understood the roots of it, I understood where the influences were,
but their unique take on it and their unique well
not only the songwriting, but they're playing and singing was
(13:40):
so unique. There was no one that ever sounded like them.
So that was highly influential to me. And then the
record that I consider the classic of all time is
Blue by Joni Mitchell. I think that's the perfect album.
I think on every level, there's nothing I've never heard
anything better. Her singing, her playing, the production, the engineering,
(14:01):
the songs themselves, even down to the album cover. It's
the perfect the perfect combination of sensitivity, sensibility, music, lyrics, creativity,
all all wrapped into one perfect album.
Speaker 4 (14:19):
Brilliant list, brilliant list.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
How did you feel watching Joni at that Newport Folk
Festival event?
Speaker 4 (14:27):
Wasn't it beautiful?
Speaker 2 (14:28):
You mean most recently? Yes, yeah, Well, you know, congrats
to her, kudos to her. I'm really you know, I'm
just glad that she she left her house and decided
to make that step. You know, a very good friend
of mine who was my guitar tech during the eighties
and also who's the current currently the guitar tech for
(14:49):
the Edge and you two, he was asked to go
to her house and help her with her acoustic guitars
and help her kind of prepare for that show. So
he gave me a lot of inside scoop on what
she was like and the and the you know, I'm
sure the the you know, she was concerned and I'm
sure she had a lot of trepidation about what she
(15:11):
was going to do and how she was going to
do it. As you age, you have certain limitations to
your to your skill set, whether that be vocally or instrumentally.
And I think, you know, she was concerned, but she
had an amazing group of people to support her, and
it was great to see her honored and appreciated by
a newer generation.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
Yeah, it was a magical moment for sure. Speaking of
magical moments, first concert that you experienced as a fan,
what was it?
Speaker 2 (15:45):
When I was four years old? It was Bill Haley
in the Comments. I saw them play at wille Grove
Amusement Park in Pennsylvania in a bandshell, and I had
just my family had just moved us from New York
City to Pennsylvania, and it was one of my first
memories of Pennsylvania to go to the amusement park and
(16:05):
hear this band. I had never heard live music before. Well,
of course, I was four years old, four or five,
maybe four and a half, and I remember running down
to the bandshell, down to the stage, and the stage
was probably only, you know, two feet high, so I
was even as a little kid, I was able to
stand there. And I remember standing right in front of
(16:27):
the upright bass player. And then when at a certain
point in the show, which was a kind of a
rockabilly tradition, which of course I didn't know at the time,
you know, he put it on its side and rode
it like a horse while he was playing. And of
course to a four year old, that was big. That
was that was that was the the apagee of a
show business.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
There right there, did that cement you for life that
you'd be a musician.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
I was already a musician, believe it or not. I
have recordings of me at four years old singing songs
that we did at the Coney Island Amusement Park little
booth in the record booth where you put a coin
in and you go in and sing. So for some reason,
I just had this ability to sing. And my parents,
my mother in particular, was you know, she really pushed
(17:12):
me and supported me about that.
Speaker 4 (17:14):
So do those recordings still exist?
Speaker 2 (17:17):
I got them yep, wow, that's amazing. First one first,
The first one was Here Comes Peter Cottontail when I
was about three or four, and then the second one
was later a few years later. It was all shook
up by Elvis tremendous.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
Who were some of the mentors in your career that
have really mattered to you.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Well a few. I had an English teacher in seventh
grade who gave us an assignment to write a poem.
And it was at the time of the Cuban missile crisis,
and I I was kind of aware of the kind
(18:03):
of the early days of the protest song a movement
with phil Oaks, people like that Bob Dylan Phillips. So
I wrote this poem about the Cuban missile crisis and
the teacher knew that I played guitar and said, you know,
you should put this to music. And I never I
never thought of the idea that I could write a song,
(18:24):
and that was the that was kind of an you know,
that was an incentive to try it. So I would
have to count that English teachers as an early mentor.
But my real mentor was a guy named Jerry Rix,
who I met in Philadelphia in nineteen sixty seven. He
(18:46):
or sixty six. I can't sprise sixty six. I had
my first year of college. I was I needed a job.
I needed a part time job. Of course, I'm too
lazy to work. So I went to a place called
Esther Halpern's Folk Music School in Philadelphia, and I applied
for a job as a guitar teacher. And she auditioned me,
(19:10):
and I played her a few things, and she said, okay,
you'll be You'll be good to teach like the beginners
in the intermediates. And I said, okay, fine, I just
needed a job. The guy who was teaching the advanced
lessons was a guy named Jerry Rix, and he he
was unbelievable. And he also had been involved with helping
a guy named Dick Waterman. Dick Waterman was the manager
(19:32):
to a lot of the early blues men, people like Sunhouse,
Sonny Terry Brownie McGhee, Robert Pete Williams, Mississippi John Hurt,
Doc Watson, people like that kind of helping them because
when a lot of these these performers, rural performers, came
to the big cities and were performing for the first
(19:54):
time at these folk festivals, and things. They had no
clue on what to do. They had no money, they
couldn't stay in a hotel, so they would stay at
Jerry's house because Jerry lived right across the street from
Dick Waterman. And a little fun fact sidebar, Bonnie Ray
was Dick Waterman's girlfriend. So if anyone ever wonders why
Bonnie Raid is so good and why she's so authentic,
(20:14):
it's because she sat in the living room with some
of these great authentic performers and learned directly from them.
But anyway, and actually, one day Bonnie and I had
to drag Robert Williams out of a bar in South
Philly and bring him back because no one could find him.
These guys didn't know it. They did tend to like
to drink. But anyway, Jerry became my Initially, when I
(20:40):
realized how good he was, I asked him if he
could teach me some things. So I became his guitar student,
and eventually we played together. In fact, Jerry is playing
Jerry Rix is playing on the first two Hall and
Oates albums with me on acoustic guitar on some of
their songs. And interestingly enough, here's another sidebar. After Mississippi
John hurt died, I'd hit His guitar that he played
(21:02):
at Newport Folk Festival in sixty three was given to Jerry.
And when I asked Jerry to come to New York
in the early seventies and play on the Whole of
Notes albums, he asked me, he said, you want me
to bring Misssippi John's guitar so you can play it?
And I said, absolutely, So the guitar I'm playing on
the first two Hole of Notes albums is Mississippi John
Hurts acoustic guitar, which I now own, by the way, Wow,
(21:24):
I know it's crazy, and it's on display at the
Phoenix Musical Instrument Museum as we speak, and I'm playing
there as well in a week or so. But so,
Jerry was incredible, and not only you know, he became
a good friend, a teacher, a mentor, and I really
learned so much from him, not only about actually how
(21:45):
to play some of these songs and how to authentically
finger the finger picking in the styles, but also just
some basic, just basic learning about musicianship and listening and
a more sophisticated way of of He may be a
more sophisticated musician in a way. So so I would
(22:05):
say they're they're my real mentors.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
We'll be right back with more of the Taking a
Walk Podcast. Welcome back to the Taking a Walk Podcast.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
Well, throughout your career, you've always had an eye on,
you know, rising talent and how to help them and
work with them. We had one of those talents on
this podcast named Honorly, who was a delightful person for
us to encounter and very talented. Tell us about how
that collaboration came about with Honorly.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Well, she's my niece, all right, she said, yes, she's
my wife's brother's daughter. And she was always a very
you know, I watched her grow up from the time
she was a baby, and she's always very outgoing. She
had always had a real big person out and she
(23:03):
began to sing. And I when I first heard her sing,
you know, I knew that she could really sing. And
I remember she came she came to Nashville quite a
while ago when she was just maybe in high school
or just in college, and she really wanted to come
to Nashville, and she said she wanted to make it
and all this stuff. And I remember we went to
(23:23):
a restaurant with her parents, and we were sitting there
and I said to her, look, I said, you see
all these waitresses. They're all trying to do exactly what
you're dying to do. I said, so, if you're going
to come here, you better be prepared because the bar
is set very high and it is not easy. And
I thought maybe she would get scared off or maybe
(23:45):
just lose the vibe. But she came and she worked
her butt off. She went down on Lower Broadways, she
sang in the bars, she did all the cover songs.
She really really worked hard. I didn't help her very much,
to be honest with you, but I did help her
when she needed it, and we wrote a song together.
(24:05):
I put her with the great Nathan Chapman who produced
Taylor Swift, and Nathan, myself and Anna Lee. We wrote
a song together, and I think that was the first
time she got a chance to write with professional songwriters.
And we wrote a really cool song called Hey There Walls,
which I believe she recorded. So I mean, I didn't,
(24:25):
you know, I just I've always there for her, But
it didn't really want to be, you know, like kind
of pushy, and it was really her career, and I
just I'm so proud of her for really doing it
herself and really finding her way. She's making some new
music now out in California. She's found some producers who
she's working with, and she runs things by me. I
give her my two cents, but she knows what she's
(24:47):
doing and she's amazing.
Speaker 4 (24:49):
Is a good soul.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
Good tell yeah, good, tell Tell me about the Nashville community.
You've been there a while and it is a unique
and I think special community. Talk about what it means
being part of that community in the way that you are.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
Well.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
In the nineties, when Daryl and I weren't doing very much,
I started going to Nashville and meeting some people. I
did a few demo sessions and things like that, and
immediately the first thing that struck me was the caliber
and quality of the players, the musicians. I realized that
they were really, really good. And you know, I had
(25:26):
spent my whole basically my old you know, I was
in bands and playing playing by myself prior to meeting Darryl.
But once Darryl and I started, you know, it was
all Hall and Oates all the time. Twenty four to
seven for you know, for fifteen twenty years whatever. So
I was used to playing with a certain in a
certain style, with a certain band, with a certain ensemble.
(25:46):
So all of a sudden, I was playing with different
people in different settings, and I was really impressed. And
I also realized that that I couldn't kind of kind
of skate and kind of I couldn't make it on
my reputation. I really had to up my game. So,
to be honest with you, I started practicing really hard,
you know, in the late nineties early two thousands. I
(26:09):
realized that I needed to really up my game and
if I wanted to be in that caliber player. So
it's really been an incredible incentive to me to get
better and to really realize my full potential.
Speaker 4 (26:23):
You know, there's a couple of.
Speaker 3 (26:25):
Historic moments in your career that I wanted to get
your memory of Live Aid and the We Are the
World sessions, those two in particular. Any reflections you could
share with us about those two historic events.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
I don't think you have enough time, But okay, where
you want to start with Live AID, I guess we
can start there. Yeah, well, you know, the American version
was going to be in Philadelphia, of course, Darren I
being from Philadelphia and being of course at almost you know,
at the top of our commercial you know, we were
at the top of the pop pyramid at the time,
(27:03):
so we were we were asked to basically close the show,
and we wanted to do something really special and something
you know, above and beyond. We had just played the
Apollo Theater with Eddie Kendrick and David Ruffin who with
the lead singers and the Temptations, and we did a
Temptations you know, kind of retrospective of songs Metley and
(27:26):
it was great. So we thought, well, why not bring
Eddie and David and we'll do some Temptations songs in
addition to our own set of course, and then Mick
Chagger reached out and he was doing a solo album
at the time and he didn't have a band, so
he asked if our band were backing, So of course,
you know, we said, yeah, of course. And I remember,
(27:47):
you know, one anecdote it's really amazing to me, is
we were rehearsing at SIR, which was studio instrument rentals
in New York City, so you know where they have
a sound stage and you can rehearse and all that,
and we had rehearsed the songs that Mick wanted to play,
and so we knew the songs. We had learned them,
and then Mick was going to come in and just
go over them with us. And I thought, you know, well,
(28:09):
he'll just come in and you know, we'll go through
the motions and we'll play the songs and he'll say
yes or no or change whatever. But what I didn't
expect was for him to literally jump on stage, grab
the mic and count the song off and go into
his full mic Jagger routine in rehearsal with nobody in
the room except us. I mean, I'm talking about the
(28:32):
full thing, the chicken wings, you know, the jumping around
doing He did it as if he was playing you know,
Madison Square Garden. It was unbelievable and you know, and
it was incredible and it was exciting and I immediately said, okay,
well this is why this guy is who he is.
(28:52):
And then, of course he didn't tell us. We didn't
know that he was going to bring that Tina Turner
out on stage. That was a surprise, and literally he
didn't we didn't know. And when he brought her out
on stage and then of course he ripped her leather
skirt off, which was kind of cool too. I guess
they had it all planned, but you know, but it
just made it so exciting because it was like it
was happening all, you know, for the first time. So
(29:14):
that was that. That was an amazing night. And I
believe that was the biggest rock concert to ever be
a simulcast around the world, you know, at the time.
And then you know, on We Are the World. That
was that was scheduled to be done after the American
Music Awards, and back in those days, you know, there
was really only the American Music Awards and the Grammys,
(29:35):
so everybody who was anybody in pop was pretty much
at that show. And they carted us all over to
the studio and put us, you know, on those things.
And there I was standing next to Bob Dylan and
Ray Charles, to my heroes. So I thought, hey, this
is pretty good, pretty good spot to be, uh and yeah,
and then I went around and got everyone to sign
(29:56):
my manuscript, my music, the music lea the lead sheet
the sheet music which they handed us. I got everyone
to sign it and I have that frame now, so
it's a it's a definitely one of my prize positions.
Speaker 4 (30:09):
Love it.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
How do you think the musical Hall and Notes will
be viewed for years to come?
Speaker 2 (30:14):
I think I think it would be. Uh. I think
it's pretty timeless. So some of those songs are have
that already, you know, withstood the test of generations, so
I don't see that they're going to go away. Great
songs endure, and I'm very proud and happy to know
(30:35):
that I was part of something that will endure. Uh.
And uh, you know which is it is fabulous and
you know, it's a it's a blessing. It's something that people,
you know, people would you know, most musicians and songwriters
would hope that they would have one much less than
you know, multiple songs that fit that description. So I'm
proud of it. At the same time, I feel like
(30:58):
I I I think those songs should be respected and
heard in the in the context of the records that
were made in the seventies and eighties, and I really
don't feel like I've moved beyond it now. I'd rather
hear those songs the way they should sound, as opposed
to kind of a you know, a live reproduction of them.
(31:20):
At this point in my life, I've kind of moved
away from that.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
You moved to Colorado to just sort of change the
pace of your life a bit and sort of go
into a different mode. And as part of that move,
I think you did encounter the great Hunter Thompson while
you were out there. Can you share anything about an
experience with Hunter?
Speaker 2 (31:46):
Many, many, some of which I can't tell you, But well,
you know, I had been going to Colorado since the
late sixties when I was in college, and I finally
finally moved there in the late eighties nearly nineties. I
met my future wife and we were looking for a
place to live. She she found a little piece of
(32:07):
land in place called Woody Creek outside of Aspen, Colorado,
and it was like a little little farm, a little ranch.
And I remember the first time we went to see
it with the real estate agent. We're standing there on
this kind of there was only a horse barn and
a little log cabin, and we're standing there and all
(32:27):
of a sudden we heard, you know, boom boom, and
then we heard shotgun pellets all on the metal roof
of this little barn, like you know, and I was like, whoa,
what's that go? And then real estate agent was like, Oh,
that's your neighbors. That's on her, that's your neighbor. And
I said, well, is this something we should be concerned about?
And he said no, no, he's fine. He's fine. He's
(32:49):
just sending a warning shot, you know. So I thought
to myself, well, this is either really good or really terrible.
As it turned out, it was really good because he
slept during the day and worked at night. I did.
I worked during the day and slept at night, so
that worked out pretty well. The interesting thing that I
noticed immediately in the little log cabin there was the
(33:10):
big There was a big red convertible, which was that
land shark that he used in fear and loathing his
car because no one had been on the property for years,
so he even though he didn't own the property, he
just put his car in the cabin and put a
padlock on the door. And I said, what are we
going to do with this guy's car? Because we wanted
(33:30):
to turn the cabin into a into a a little
apartment where we could live while we built the rest
of our house. So I would go and knock on
his door and he never answered. Then I'd go again,
I knock, I didn't even note because I because we
wanted to, you know, we wanted to have the carpenters
come in and start rebuilding this cabin. So the keys
(33:52):
were in it. I jumped started it, I backed it out,
I drove it up on his lawn. I put it
directly in front of his door, and I just left
it there. And I knew him for twenty five years,
and he never said a word to me about it.
I guess he just thought the car just appeared one day,
you know. So we went to his funeral that Johnny
Depp organized and it was amazing. We played at his
(34:13):
funeral with Lyle Loved and Johnny Depp and it was
just absolutely amazing. He was an amazing guy and one
of the great, you know, a classic journalists, you know,
who invented a style of journalism. Really, you know, he
loved being Hunter Thompson. He loved the image of himself.
And I think what happened when he broke his hip
in his leg and he couldn't really be that guy anymore,
(34:35):
I don't. I think that's when he decided to pack
it all in. But he we still go up there
and watch Monday night football with the sheriff, and we like,
it's just kind of crazy.
Speaker 3 (34:49):
Let's come back to Reunion here. I want to get
your take on a couple of the specific songs here.
We've already touched on Long Monday and Reunion. I want
to talk about Sonny Terry and Brownie McGee, who you
mentioned earlier in the conversation, So talk about them and
that song.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
That song was written during the pandemic when I was
out in Colorado. I'm spending more time in Colorado during
the pandemic, just to get out of the city, breathe
some fresh air and all that. And I ran into
a guy who was his neighbor who I knew for
years and years, but we never did anything together. His
guy named Joe Henry, who has written lyrics. He's an author,
(35:29):
he's written books. And we were just shooting the breeze
and he said, you know, we should write a song.
I said, yeah, we should. And so he came up
to my little cabin and the cabin where that car
was by the way, and we'd start talking about, you know,
ideas for songs, and he told me he related this
(35:51):
story about Sunny Terry and Brownie McGee. How as time
went on in their career. They were together for over
forty years, they began to really dislike each other and
they didn't want to play together anymore. So obviously there
was something going on that resonated with me. But he
said that the interesting part was that one of them
lost this ability to see and the other one lost
(36:12):
his ability to walk, and it brought them together in
a way, and they needed each other to get on stage.
And when I thought about it, I said, well, you know,
we could write about them specifically, or we could use
their story and their experience as a metaphor for highness
and lending a helping hand and helping your fellow man
(36:33):
so speaking. I thought that was a more broad subject.
So in the end, Sunny Terry and Brownie McGhee became
more of a metaphor for the meaning of the song.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
How about the song All I Am that you co
wrote with Adam Ezra.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
Yeah, Adam's great. He and I just did a song
that we just played together in New York just a
couple of weeks ago. He's great. He's from the Boston area,
a really good soul, talented guy, and we played We've
done shows together over the years. We've written a few
songs together, and All I Am is probably my favorite
(37:09):
of the ones we've written. It's just a song. He
came to Nashville, we sat down and we wrote it.
It just worked, and I love that song. We played
all the time.
Speaker 3 (37:20):
And how about the song that this Field Is Mine?
Which is just wonderful to talk about that one?
Speaker 2 (37:26):
Thank you. That song was supposed to be included on
the Arkansas album, which came out in twenty eighteen, but
it just didn't There was something about it that I
didn't think it was right for that album, so I
held it, but I knew that I was going to
release it someday. That song was inspired by my wife's
family who they own a farm in southern Illinois and
(37:49):
they're very, very passionate about keeping the farm as the
surrounding area gets developed by suburbs and housing developments. And
when I know the passion that they have for their
land because it's a you know, it's been in their
farm family for generations. So I thought about it and
I just thought about what that really means. I thought
(38:11):
about what owning a piece of land, Do you really
really own it or are you're just the caretaker for
a while, you know, and so that was the impetus
for it, and I I ran the idea by Sam
Bush and the great Jeff Black, who's an incredible Nashville songwriter,
and we wanted to try to write something together. So
the three of us got together and we wrote that
(38:32):
song together. Yeah, So that was that was that was
really great to be able to. I had never written
anything with Sam and it was first time, and I
think we did pretty good.
Speaker 4 (38:42):
Did awesome.
Speaker 3 (38:44):
And closing, You've always explored diverse influences in your career
and you continue to do that. Are there some influences
that you have not explored that you'd still like to explore.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
I wouldn't say there's any particular influence like style, but
I still have a lot of interest. You know. I
just wrote a song with a young artist named Devin Gilfillan,
who's fantastic. He's an R and B singer from Philadelphia
and once saw him live and he's great, and I
(39:22):
introduced myself and we hit it off and wrote a song.
It sounds like a vintage soul song. And so I'm
not going to be stuck in any particular style. I'm
just going to, you know, do whatever it feels right
at the time. That's a song that I want to
release this coming fall, and it's a really cool song.
So and then you know, I just recently I was
(39:43):
on the Joe Bonamassa Blues Cruise and I got a
chance to sit in with a band called Robert John
and the Reck They're a California based rock band and
they're really, really good and I really like them and
got together and wrote a song just a few days
ago with him and Dave Cobb is producing him. Hopefully
it'll make it onto the album. And so you know,
(40:06):
I'm I'm just open to interesting ideas.
Speaker 3 (40:10):
Congratulations on reunion. I'm so grateful that you took the
time to be on Taking a Walk. I've been a
fan forever and thank you for the music that you
continued to give us.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
John Thanks, it was a good interview. I like talking
about that stuff, so thanks.
Speaker 1 (40:26):
Thanks for listening to this episode of the Taking a
Walk podcast. Share this and other episodes with your friends
and follow us so you never miss an episode. Taking
a Walk is available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
and wherever you get your podcasts.
Taking a Walk.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
I think it's pretty timeless. So some of those songs
are have that already, you know, withstood the test of generations.
Great songs endure. I'm very proud and happy to know
that I was part of something that will endure, and
you know, which is fabulous, and you know it's a
it's a blessing. It's something that most musicians and songwriters
(00:24):
would hope that they would have one much less than
you know, multiple songs that fit that description.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Well.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Welcome to our top five Taking a Walk Podcast holiday countdown,
the top five most downloaded episodes of Taking a Walk
for twenty twenty four.
Speaker 4 (00:40):
I'm buzznight, your host.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
It's my pleasure to welcome for the reveal on the countdown,
Harry Jacobs from the Taking a Walk Music History Desk.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
Healo, Harry, Well, it's pleasure to be here again for this.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
So number four was a super cool one to get
as well. He was revealed information about a new album
that he was putting out. It was off limits to
kind of talk about the most obvious thing which he
had already talked about, and that was the split with
his longtime partner. But nevertheless, it was super cool to
(01:15):
be able to have on Taking a Walk John Oates
of Hall and Oates fame.
Speaker 5 (01:20):
Yeah, I you know, to me, the fact that you
had Daryl Hall and John Oates separately, there was really
something kind of special and very quickly during that split too,
there's a you know, to me, this is a big
get for Taking a Walk to have Hall and Oates
basically within a very short period of time together. And
(01:41):
certainly we all would have had questions about about the split,
but but I'm glad that you did it without doing
anything related to the split. He's a he's a great,
great another great guitar player.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
Right.
Speaker 5 (01:53):
You featured a lot of wonderful guitar players and he's
up there on that list.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
And he's got tremendous respect for America on our roots
and sort of roots music in his own regard, really
intelligent about that and respectful to that past in a
big way.
Speaker 5 (02:09):
And he's also very positive and respectful of Daryl.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
Right.
Speaker 5 (02:13):
I saw him on an interview. I've seen him a
couple of times subsequent to the Taking a Walk interview
we're about to hear, and he's very respectful of Daryl,
and it's to me their history, you know, they found
each other when John was a folk guitar player basically
and Daryl was into soul. And so the history that
got them together, and certainly those first few albums that
(02:37):
before they hit it big before MTV, right the second
iteration of that band, Sarah Smile and Rich Girl. You know,
those songs were are particularly meaningful to me, and he
had obviously he had a huge role in those.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
I love this one as a guest.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Well, but you know what was also funny so in
his own way though he did kind of talk about
the split as aspect of Hall and Oates and here's
how there was a song. There is a song on
his latest album. I believe it's called Sonny Terry and
Brownie McGhee or Sonny Sonny and Brownie. And the truth
(03:18):
of that story about Sonny Terry and Brownie McGhee great,
you know, longtime sort of classic blues players who were
out on the road for many, many years into the
nineteen seventies, I think maybe early nineteen eighties possibly. So
the thing that we all knew about Sonny Terry and
(03:40):
Brownie McGee in those days is they didn't.
Speaker 4 (03:43):
Speak to each other. They just performed.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
So that interesting really, So, I think in his own way,
as John sort of wrote that song and sort of
touched on it a little bit, that was his way
I think of talking a little bit about the past
while staying in the present and in the.
Speaker 5 (04:03):
Future, kind of like Greg Alman and Dicky Betts, Right,
there was someone that ran in between those two guys.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
Absolutely, Yeah, But I love talking to John Oates. It's
the number four most downloaded podcast for Taking a Walk
of twenty twenty four.
Speaker 4 (04:17):
Let's listen to it now.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Well, John Oates, it is a terrific honor to have
you on this virtual edition of Taking a Walk. We're
going to take a walk down memory lane a bit.
We're going to talk about your new project, Reunion. But
I'm grateful to have you on.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Thanks, Thanks, nice to be here.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
So Reunion is the new project the singles out. We
want to get into a lot about that project, but
can you just talk about how the creative process worked
for you for this new Reunion project and any differences
in the creative project to the way you've done it
(04:55):
in the past.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Well, this particular project, I think is in a sense
a culmination of my Nashville experience moving here, being embraced
and participating in a lot of the Americana music, you
know communities, not only in terms of musical relationship or
friendships and all sorts of things like that. So in
(05:18):
a way, I think this record really kind of crystallizes
all those things. There's there's many many of my amazing
musicians who have become my good friends over the years,
who we've recorded and toured together with. You know, people
like Sam Bush, Jerry Douglass, Bayli Fleck, Jim Lauderdale, you
(05:39):
know some great amazing also players like Guthrie Trapped, Tom Bukavac.
So it's really chock full of this kind of all
star cast, Sierra Hall on mandolin, just more recently, Russ Paul,
you know, people like that. I could go on and on,
but it's really and a lot of I think what
makes this record unique too is there's songs on this
(06:02):
record that are that were written a long long time ago,
some some as early as the early nineties and on
up to songs that I knew that someday would see
the light of day, but I didn't have a project
that they seemed to fit. And finally I had this
body of work that seemed to embrace some of these
other songs that have just been sitting around in the
(06:25):
in the archives. So really it's it's I think in
a way, it's a little bit of a retrospective on
my on my singer songwriter side, on my folk acoustic side,
all of which are very important in my in my background,
in my musical DNA.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
And back here you can't quite see it, but there's
a photo of the great John Prime back there from
an album cover, and you do an absolutely beautiful, beautiful
rendition of the song long Monday congratulates on that. Tell
me about what John Prime, that song and his music
(07:05):
means to you.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Well, I think there's a you know, probably you know
a fact, a hidden unknown fact that John was doing,
if not his first album, one of his first albums
at Atlantic Records Atlantic Recording Studios in New York City
in the early seventies with the producer Aarif Martin at
(07:26):
the exact same time that Darryl and I were doing
our first albums in the same studio with the same producer.
So there's a lot lot of synergy there in terms of,
you know, we'd be passing each other in the hallways,
as you know him going to his session or coming
out and vice versa. So, you know, even though I
wasn't super close with John in the later years, we
(07:48):
did play together once or twice, just casually. And I've
just been a huge fan, you know, one of the
great American songwriters. And when I was asked to celebrate
his birth they at the Ryman Auditorium in Nashville a
few months ago. They asked me if I would participate,
and I said, of course, and you know, I picked
long Monday. And then I thought about it, you know,
(08:10):
and I thought, well, here's a challenge, you know, because
I have a great respect for songwriters, so I wouldn't
want to mess with the beauty of his lyrics and
his melody for that matter. So I thought, well, the
only way I can make this my own is by
in terms of the arrangement. So I dug into the arrangement,
and I tried to make the arrangement a little bit
more personal and a little bit more comfortable for me.
(08:31):
And then when I played it live on stage, everyone
seemed to really like it. Then I said, well, I
guess I should record it, So I did, and of
course I included it on the album.
Speaker 4 (08:39):
It really is beautiful.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Thanks. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
Tell me about collaborating with the AJ Crochy Well, it's
a perfect segue because I met AJ Crochey at that
exact John Prime event at the Ryman Auditorium.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
We were put into the same we were assigned the
same dressing room, and of course I I knew of him,
but we had never met, and we hit it off immediately.
He's just got a very very He's a really warm,
engaging guy, and and I could tell from immediately that
there was something going on. We had a reel, you know,
it was very compatible, and I could just sense that
(09:18):
we could do something together. I didn't know what that
was going to be, but we did talk about, you know,
getting together to write. And when we did, I had
this idea for a reunion. I had the concept, I
had the part of the chorus, and I had a
key line. The lights at the party burned bright, but
I'm leaving early tonight, and to me that that kind
(09:39):
of symbolizes the spirit of the whole song. We talked
about it. I told him about my hundred year old
father who gave me the inspiration for this song. We
start discussing, you know, what it's like to really find
the essence of yourself, and of course he related I
think in a lot of ways. Due to the fact
that his father was such a famous and well known
(10:00):
songwriter and he was in the midst of doing a
tour Croachy Sings Crochy, there was a lot going on
that really we were both able to relate to the
idea of the song in our own personal way, and
it really it was beautiful. It flowed really quickly. I
think we wrote the song in a few hours.
Speaker 4 (10:20):
Had you encountered his father through your.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Career, No, not personally, no, but of course I was
a fan.
Speaker 4 (10:26):
What a legacy, right, my god?
Speaker 3 (10:28):
Yeah, I think really in a way it's sad, but
many times people's legacy is more appreciated after they pass away,
and it feels like that was the case with his father.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Well, you know, I think he was also appreciated, you know,
in his own time this you know, he had big hits.
He had big hits with a very kind of acoustic,
folky kind of recording style and which was unusual for
the time, which was great. It made him stand out
for sure.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
So I'll put you on the spot here and ask
you maybe five quintessential albums that have really mattered to
you and had an influence on you.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Well, I don't know where to begin, Okay, Sure, I
would say, you know, going back, the first the first
long playing album LP that I ever heard, other than
early rock and roll single forty five's was Ray Charles,
Ray Charles' greatest hits. And I did not have a
(11:28):
long playing record player at home. I had only had
a little forty five recording record player, and this was
probably late fifties. And I remember a friend of mine's
parents had a console record player and they had this
Rach Charles record and I just absorbed it. You know,
it had what I say, and it had you know,
(11:51):
you know, all some of his early classics, and it
was just it just grabbed me immediately. So I would
definitely say Ray Charles was a huge influence on me.
And then you know, when the folk movement either folk
revival hit in the early sixties, I was exposed to
music that I had never heard from, never heard before,
roots music that was being rediscovered and spread around the
(12:14):
college campuses in the early sixties. So I would say
Dave Van Ronk, who was a big, big influence on
me because I loved his voice. It was so gritty
and he had this powerful personality. Also, the first Doc
Watson record on Vanguard was a real touchdown for me
(12:35):
because it was the first time I heard virtuosic acoustic
guitar playing. So I absorbed that record. I try to learn,
as you know. Eventually over the years I learned all
the songs on the record, but you know, that was
a challenge and a real inspiration for me. And then
you know, you know, there's so many more. The Temptations,
(12:56):
they had a particular live album that was incredible that
they recorded at club somewhere, which was amazing. And then
of course the classic James Brown Live at the Apollo,
which was probably the most kinetic and exciting recording that
I had ever heard. The tempos were all jacked up.
It was it's just James Brown at his best at
the Apollo Theater. And then moving on later on in
(13:19):
the sixties, you know, the band. The band was a
big influence on me and I, you know, and I
just thought that it was music that I had never
heard before. It was a style of music, but I
understood the roots of it, I understood where the influences were,
but their unique take on it and their unique well
not only the songwriting, but they're playing and singing was
(13:40):
so unique. There was no one that ever sounded like them.
So that was highly influential to me. And then the
record that I consider the classic of all time is
Blue by Joni Mitchell. I think that's the perfect album.
I think on every level, there's nothing I've never heard
anything better. Her singing, her playing, the production, the engineering,
(14:01):
the songs themselves, even down to the album cover. It's
the perfect the perfect combination of sensitivity, sensibility, music, lyrics, creativity,
all all wrapped into one perfect album.
Speaker 4 (14:19):
Brilliant list, brilliant list.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
How did you feel watching Joni at that Newport Folk
Festival event?
Speaker 4 (14:27):
Wasn't it beautiful?
Speaker 2 (14:28):
You mean most recently? Yes, yeah, Well, you know, congrats
to her, kudos to her. I'm really you know, I'm
just glad that she she left her house and decided
to make that step. You know, a very good friend
of mine who was my guitar tech during the eighties
and also who's the current currently the guitar tech for
(14:49):
the Edge and you two, he was asked to go
to her house and help her with her acoustic guitars
and help her kind of prepare for that show. So
he gave me a lot of inside scoop on what
she was like and the and the you know, I'm
sure the the you know, she was concerned and I'm
sure she had a lot of trepidation about what she
(15:11):
was going to do and how she was going to
do it. As you age, you have certain limitations to
your to your skill set, whether that be vocally or instrumentally.
And I think, you know, she was concerned, but she
had an amazing group of people to support her, and
it was great to see her honored and appreciated by
a newer generation.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
Yeah, it was a magical moment for sure. Speaking of
magical moments, first concert that you experienced as a fan,
what was it?
Speaker 2 (15:45):
When I was four years old? It was Bill Haley
in the Comments. I saw them play at wille Grove
Amusement Park in Pennsylvania in a bandshell, and I had
just my family had just moved us from New York
City to Pennsylvania, and it was one of my first
memories of Pennsylvania to go to the amusement park and
(16:05):
hear this band. I had never heard live music before. Well,
of course, I was four years old, four or five,
maybe four and a half, and I remember running down
to the bandshell, down to the stage, and the stage
was probably only, you know, two feet high, so I
was even as a little kid, I was able to
stand there. And I remember standing right in front of
(16:27):
the upright bass player. And then when at a certain
point in the show, which was a kind of a
rockabilly tradition, which of course I didn't know at the time,
you know, he put it on its side and rode
it like a horse while he was playing. And of
course to a four year old, that was big. That
was that was that was the the apagee of a
show business.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
There right there, did that cement you for life that
you'd be a musician.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
I was already a musician, believe it or not. I
have recordings of me at four years old singing songs
that we did at the Coney Island Amusement Park little
booth in the record booth where you put a coin
in and you go in and sing. So for some reason,
I just had this ability to sing. And my parents,
my mother in particular, was you know, she really pushed
(17:12):
me and supported me about that.
Speaker 4 (17:14):
So do those recordings still exist?
Speaker 2 (17:17):
I got them yep, wow, that's amazing. First one first,
The first one was Here Comes Peter Cottontail when I
was about three or four, and then the second one
was later a few years later. It was all shook
up by Elvis tremendous.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
Who were some of the mentors in your career that
have really mattered to you.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Well a few. I had an English teacher in seventh
grade who gave us an assignment to write a poem.
And it was at the time of the Cuban missile crisis,
and I I was kind of aware of the kind
(18:03):
of the early days of the protest song a movement
with phil Oaks, people like that Bob Dylan Phillips. So
I wrote this poem about the Cuban missile crisis and
the teacher knew that I played guitar and said, you know,
you should put this to music. And I never I
never thought of the idea that I could write a song,
(18:24):
and that was the that was kind of an you know,
that was an incentive to try it. So I would
have to count that English teachers as an early mentor.
But my real mentor was a guy named Jerry Rix,
who I met in Philadelphia in nineteen sixty seven. He
(18:46):
or sixty six. I can't sprise sixty six. I had
my first year of college. I was I needed a job.
I needed a part time job. Of course, I'm too
lazy to work. So I went to a place called
Esther Halpern's Folk Music School in Philadelphia, and I applied
for a job as a guitar teacher. And she auditioned me,
(19:10):
and I played her a few things, and she said, okay,
you'll be You'll be good to teach like the beginners
in the intermediates. And I said, okay, fine, I just
needed a job. The guy who was teaching the advanced
lessons was a guy named Jerry Rix, and he he
was unbelievable. And he also had been involved with helping
a guy named Dick Waterman. Dick Waterman was the manager
(19:32):
to a lot of the early blues men, people like Sunhouse,
Sonny Terry Brownie McGhee, Robert Pete Williams, Mississippi John Hurt,
Doc Watson, people like that kind of helping them because
when a lot of these these performers, rural performers, came
to the big cities and were performing for the first
(19:54):
time at these folk festivals, and things. They had no
clue on what to do. They had no money, they
couldn't stay in a hotel, so they would stay at
Jerry's house because Jerry lived right across the street from
Dick Waterman. And a little fun fact sidebar, Bonnie Ray
was Dick Waterman's girlfriend. So if anyone ever wonders why
Bonnie Raid is so good and why she's so authentic,
(20:14):
it's because she sat in the living room with some
of these great authentic performers and learned directly from them.
But anyway, and actually, one day Bonnie and I had
to drag Robert Williams out of a bar in South
Philly and bring him back because no one could find him.
These guys didn't know it. They did tend to like
to drink. But anyway, Jerry became my Initially, when I
(20:40):
realized how good he was, I asked him if he
could teach me some things. So I became his guitar student,
and eventually we played together. In fact, Jerry is playing
Jerry Rix is playing on the first two Hall and
Oates albums with me on acoustic guitar on some of
their songs. And interestingly enough, here's another sidebar. After Mississippi
John hurt died, I'd hit His guitar that he played
(21:02):
at Newport Folk Festival in sixty three was given to Jerry.
And when I asked Jerry to come to New York
in the early seventies and play on the Whole of
Notes albums, he asked me, he said, you want me
to bring Misssippi John's guitar so you can play it?
And I said, absolutely, So the guitar I'm playing on
the first two Hole of Notes albums is Mississippi John
Hurts acoustic guitar, which I now own, by the way, Wow,
(21:24):
I know it's crazy, and it's on display at the
Phoenix Musical Instrument Museum as we speak, and I'm playing
there as well in a week or so. But so,
Jerry was incredible, and not only you know, he became
a good friend, a teacher, a mentor, and I really
learned so much from him, not only about actually how
(21:45):
to play some of these songs and how to authentically
finger the finger picking in the styles, but also just
some basic, just basic learning about musicianship and listening and
a more sophisticated way of of He may be a
more sophisticated musician in a way. So so I would
(22:05):
say they're they're my real mentors.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
We'll be right back with more of the Taking a
Walk Podcast. Welcome back to the Taking a Walk Podcast.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
Well, throughout your career, you've always had an eye on,
you know, rising talent and how to help them and
work with them. We had one of those talents on
this podcast named Honorly, who was a delightful person for
us to encounter and very talented. Tell us about how
that collaboration came about with Honorly.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Well, she's my niece, all right, she said, yes, she's
my wife's brother's daughter. And she was always a very
you know, I watched her grow up from the time
she was a baby, and she's always very outgoing. She
had always had a real big person out and she
(23:03):
began to sing. And I when I first heard her sing,
you know, I knew that she could really sing. And
I remember she came she came to Nashville quite a
while ago when she was just maybe in high school
or just in college, and she really wanted to come
to Nashville, and she said she wanted to make it
and all this stuff. And I remember we went to
(23:23):
a restaurant with her parents, and we were sitting there
and I said to her, look, I said, you see
all these waitresses. They're all trying to do exactly what
you're dying to do. I said, so, if you're going
to come here, you better be prepared because the bar
is set very high and it is not easy. And
I thought maybe she would get scared off or maybe
(23:45):
just lose the vibe. But she came and she worked
her butt off. She went down on Lower Broadways, she
sang in the bars, she did all the cover songs.
She really really worked hard. I didn't help her very much,
to be honest with you, but I did help her
when she needed it, and we wrote a song together.
(24:05):
I put her with the great Nathan Chapman who produced
Taylor Swift, and Nathan, myself and Anna Lee. We wrote
a song together, and I think that was the first
time she got a chance to write with professional songwriters.
And we wrote a really cool song called Hey There Walls,
which I believe she recorded. So I mean, I didn't,
(24:25):
you know, I just I've always there for her, But
it didn't really want to be, you know, like kind
of pushy, and it was really her career, and I
just I'm so proud of her for really doing it
herself and really finding her way. She's making some new
music now out in California. She's found some producers who
she's working with, and she runs things by me. I
give her my two cents, but she knows what she's
(24:47):
doing and she's amazing.
Speaker 4 (24:49):
Is a good soul.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
Good tell yeah, good, tell Tell me about the Nashville community.
You've been there a while and it is a unique
and I think special community. Talk about what it means
being part of that community in the way that you are.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
Well.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
In the nineties, when Daryl and I weren't doing very much,
I started going to Nashville and meeting some people. I
did a few demo sessions and things like that, and
immediately the first thing that struck me was the caliber
and quality of the players, the musicians. I realized that
they were really, really good. And you know, I had
(25:26):
spent my whole basically my old you know, I was
in bands and playing playing by myself prior to meeting Darryl.
But once Darryl and I started, you know, it was
all Hall and Oates all the time. Twenty four to
seven for you know, for fifteen twenty years whatever. So
I was used to playing with a certain in a
certain style, with a certain band, with a certain ensemble.
(25:46):
So all of a sudden, I was playing with different
people in different settings, and I was really impressed. And
I also realized that that I couldn't kind of kind
of skate and kind of I couldn't make it on
my reputation. I really had to up my game. So,
to be honest with you, I started practicing really hard,
you know, in the late nineties early two thousands. I
(26:09):
realized that I needed to really up my game and
if I wanted to be in that caliber player. So
it's really been an incredible incentive to me to get
better and to really realize my full potential.
Speaker 4 (26:23):
You know, there's a couple of.
Speaker 3 (26:25):
Historic moments in your career that I wanted to get
your memory of Live Aid and the We Are the
World sessions, those two in particular. Any reflections you could
share with us about those two historic events.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
I don't think you have enough time, But okay, where
you want to start with Live AID, I guess we
can start there. Yeah, well, you know, the American version
was going to be in Philadelphia, of course, Darren I
being from Philadelphia and being of course at almost you know,
at the top of our commercial you know, we were
at the top of the pop pyramid at the time,
(27:03):
so we were we were asked to basically close the show,
and we wanted to do something really special and something
you know, above and beyond. We had just played the
Apollo Theater with Eddie Kendrick and David Ruffin who with
the lead singers and the Temptations, and we did a
Temptations you know, kind of retrospective of songs Metley and
(27:26):
it was great. So we thought, well, why not bring
Eddie and David and we'll do some Temptations songs in
addition to our own set of course, and then Mick
Chagger reached out and he was doing a solo album
at the time and he didn't have a band, so
he asked if our band were backing, So of course,
you know, we said, yeah, of course. And I remember,
(27:47):
you know, one anecdote it's really amazing to me, is
we were rehearsing at SIR, which was studio instrument rentals
in New York City, so you know where they have
a sound stage and you can rehearse and all that,
and we had rehearsed the songs that Mick wanted to play,
and so we knew the songs. We had learned them,
and then Mick was going to come in and just
go over them with us. And I thought, you know, well,
(28:09):
he'll just come in and you know, we'll go through
the motions and we'll play the songs and he'll say
yes or no or change whatever. But what I didn't
expect was for him to literally jump on stage, grab
the mic and count the song off and go into
his full mic Jagger routine in rehearsal with nobody in
the room except us. I mean, I'm talking about the
(28:32):
full thing, the chicken wings, you know, the jumping around
doing He did it as if he was playing you know,
Madison Square Garden. It was unbelievable and you know, and
it was incredible and it was exciting and I immediately said, okay,
well this is why this guy is who he is.
(28:52):
And then, of course he didn't tell us. We didn't
know that he was going to bring that Tina Turner
out on stage. That was a surprise, and literally he
didn't we didn't know. And when he brought her out
on stage and then of course he ripped her leather
skirt off, which was kind of cool too. I guess
they had it all planned, but you know, but it
just made it so exciting because it was like it
was happening all, you know, for the first time. So
(29:14):
that was that. That was an amazing night. And I
believe that was the biggest rock concert to ever be
a simulcast around the world, you know, at the time.
And then you know, on We Are the World. That
was that was scheduled to be done after the American
Music Awards, and back in those days, you know, there
was really only the American Music Awards and the Grammys,
(29:35):
so everybody who was anybody in pop was pretty much
at that show. And they carted us all over to
the studio and put us, you know, on those things.
And there I was standing next to Bob Dylan and
Ray Charles, to my heroes. So I thought, hey, this
is pretty good, pretty good spot to be, uh and yeah,
and then I went around and got everyone to sign
(29:56):
my manuscript, my music, the music lea the lead sheet
the sheet music which they handed us. I got everyone
to sign it and I have that frame now, so
it's a it's a definitely one of my prize positions.
Speaker 4 (30:09):
Love it.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
How do you think the musical Hall and Notes will
be viewed for years to come?
Speaker 2 (30:14):
I think I think it would be. Uh. I think
it's pretty timeless. So some of those songs are have
that already, you know, withstood the test of generations, so
I don't see that they're going to go away. Great
songs endure, and I'm very proud and happy to know
(30:35):
that I was part of something that will endure. Uh.
And uh, you know which is it is fabulous and
you know, it's a it's a blessing. It's something that people,
you know, people would you know, most musicians and songwriters
would hope that they would have one much less than
you know, multiple songs that fit that description. So I'm
proud of it. At the same time, I feel like
(30:58):
I I I think those songs should be respected and
heard in the in the context of the records that
were made in the seventies and eighties, and I really
don't feel like I've moved beyond it now. I'd rather
hear those songs the way they should sound, as opposed
to kind of a you know, a live reproduction of them.
(31:20):
At this point in my life, I've kind of moved
away from that.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
You moved to Colorado to just sort of change the
pace of your life a bit and sort of go
into a different mode. And as part of that move,
I think you did encounter the great Hunter Thompson while
you were out there. Can you share anything about an
experience with Hunter?
Speaker 2 (31:46):
Many, many, some of which I can't tell you, But well,
you know, I had been going to Colorado since the
late sixties when I was in college, and I finally
finally moved there in the late eighties nearly nineties. I
met my future wife and we were looking for a
place to live. She she found a little piece of
(32:07):
land in place called Woody Creek outside of Aspen, Colorado,
and it was like a little little farm, a little ranch.
And I remember the first time we went to see
it with the real estate agent. We're standing there on
this kind of there was only a horse barn and
a little log cabin, and we're standing there and all
(32:27):
of a sudden we heard, you know, boom boom, and
then we heard shotgun pellets all on the metal roof
of this little barn, like you know, and I was like, whoa,
what's that go? And then real estate agent was like, Oh,
that's your neighbors. That's on her, that's your neighbor. And
I said, well, is this something we should be concerned about?
And he said no, no, he's fine. He's fine. He's
(32:49):
just sending a warning shot, you know. So I thought
to myself, well, this is either really good or really terrible.
As it turned out, it was really good because he
slept during the day and worked at night. I did.
I worked during the day and slept at night, so
that worked out pretty well. The interesting thing that I
noticed immediately in the little log cabin there was the
(33:10):
big There was a big red convertible, which was that
land shark that he used in fear and loathing his
car because no one had been on the property for years,
so he even though he didn't own the property, he
just put his car in the cabin and put a
padlock on the door. And I said, what are we
going to do with this guy's car? Because we wanted
(33:30):
to turn the cabin into a into a a little
apartment where we could live while we built the rest
of our house. So I would go and knock on
his door and he never answered. Then I'd go again,
I knock, I didn't even note because I because we
wanted to, you know, we wanted to have the carpenters
come in and start rebuilding this cabin. So the keys
(33:52):
were in it. I jumped started it, I backed it out,
I drove it up on his lawn. I put it
directly in front of his door, and I just left
it there. And I knew him for twenty five years,
and he never said a word to me about it.
I guess he just thought the car just appeared one day,
you know. So we went to his funeral that Johnny
Depp organized and it was amazing. We played at his
(34:13):
funeral with Lyle Loved and Johnny Depp and it was
just absolutely amazing. He was an amazing guy and one
of the great, you know, a classic journalists, you know,
who invented a style of journalism. Really, you know, he
loved being Hunter Thompson. He loved the image of himself.
And I think what happened when he broke his hip
in his leg and he couldn't really be that guy anymore,
(34:35):
I don't. I think that's when he decided to pack
it all in. But he we still go up there
and watch Monday night football with the sheriff, and we like,
it's just kind of crazy.
Speaker 3 (34:49):
Let's come back to Reunion here. I want to get
your take on a couple of the specific songs here.
We've already touched on Long Monday and Reunion. I want
to talk about Sonny Terry and Brownie McGee, who you
mentioned earlier in the conversation, So talk about them and
that song.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
That song was written during the pandemic when I was
out in Colorado. I'm spending more time in Colorado during
the pandemic, just to get out of the city, breathe
some fresh air and all that. And I ran into
a guy who was his neighbor who I knew for
years and years, but we never did anything together. His
guy named Joe Henry, who has written lyrics. He's an author,
(35:29):
he's written books. And we were just shooting the breeze
and he said, you know, we should write a song.
I said, yeah, we should. And so he came up
to my little cabin and the cabin where that car
was by the way, and we'd start talking about, you know,
ideas for songs, and he told me he related this
(35:51):
story about Sunny Terry and Brownie McGee. How as time
went on in their career. They were together for over
forty years, they began to really dislike each other and
they didn't want to play together anymore. So obviously there
was something going on that resonated with me. But he
said that the interesting part was that one of them
lost this ability to see and the other one lost
(36:12):
his ability to walk, and it brought them together in
a way, and they needed each other to get on stage.
And when I thought about it, I said, well, you know,
we could write about them specifically, or we could use
their story and their experience as a metaphor for highness
and lending a helping hand and helping your fellow man
(36:33):
so speaking. I thought that was a more broad subject.
So in the end, Sunny Terry and Brownie McGhee became
more of a metaphor for the meaning of the song.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
How about the song All I Am that you co
wrote with Adam Ezra.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
Yeah, Adam's great. He and I just did a song
that we just played together in New York just a
couple of weeks ago. He's great. He's from the Boston area,
a really good soul, talented guy, and we played We've
done shows together over the years. We've written a few
songs together, and All I Am is probably my favorite
(37:09):
of the ones we've written. It's just a song. He
came to Nashville, we sat down and we wrote it.
It just worked, and I love that song. We played
all the time.
Speaker 3 (37:20):
And how about the song that this Field Is Mine?
Which is just wonderful to talk about that one?
Speaker 2 (37:26):
Thank you. That song was supposed to be included on
the Arkansas album, which came out in twenty eighteen, but
it just didn't There was something about it that I
didn't think it was right for that album, so I
held it, but I knew that I was going to
release it someday. That song was inspired by my wife's
family who they own a farm in southern Illinois and
(37:49):
they're very, very passionate about keeping the farm as the
surrounding area gets developed by suburbs and housing developments. And
when I know the passion that they have for their
land because it's a you know, it's been in their
farm family for generations. So I thought about it and
I just thought about what that really means. I thought
(38:11):
about what owning a piece of land, Do you really
really own it or are you're just the caretaker for
a while, you know, and so that was the impetus
for it, and I I ran the idea by Sam
Bush and the great Jeff Black, who's an incredible Nashville songwriter,
and we wanted to try to write something together. So
the three of us got together and we wrote that
(38:32):
song together. Yeah, So that was that was that was
really great to be able to. I had never written
anything with Sam and it was first time, and I
think we did pretty good.
Speaker 4 (38:42):
Did awesome.
Speaker 3 (38:44):
And closing, You've always explored diverse influences in your career
and you continue to do that. Are there some influences
that you have not explored that you'd still like to explore.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
I wouldn't say there's any particular influence like style, but
I still have a lot of interest. You know. I
just wrote a song with a young artist named Devin Gilfillan,
who's fantastic. He's an R and B singer from Philadelphia
and once saw him live and he's great, and I
(39:22):
introduced myself and we hit it off and wrote a song.
It sounds like a vintage soul song. And so I'm
not going to be stuck in any particular style. I'm
just going to, you know, do whatever it feels right
at the time. That's a song that I want to
release this coming fall, and it's a really cool song.
So and then you know, I just recently I was
(39:43):
on the Joe Bonamassa Blues Cruise and I got a
chance to sit in with a band called Robert John
and the Reck They're a California based rock band and
they're really, really good and I really like them and
got together and wrote a song just a few days
ago with him and Dave Cobb is producing him. Hopefully
it'll make it onto the album. And so you know,
(40:06):
I'm I'm just open to interesting ideas.
Speaker 3 (40:10):
Congratulations on reunion. I'm so grateful that you took the
time to be on Taking a Walk. I've been a
fan forever and thank you for the music that you
continued to give us.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
John Thanks, it was a good interview. I like talking
about that stuff, so thanks.
Speaker 1 (40:26):
Thanks for listening to this episode of the Taking a
Walk podcast. Share this and other episodes with your friends
and follow us so you never miss an episode. Taking
a Walk is available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
and wherever you get your podcasts.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.