December 8, 2023 • 20 mins
It has been an amazing ride for Jelly Roll, and it feels like the best is yet to come.
We were thrilled to have him on for the beginning of his success and he continues to build upon his musical legacy.
Support the show: https://takinawalk.com/
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to this classic replay of the Taking a Walk
podcast with your host Buzz Night and his special guest,
Jelly Roll. Jelly has been on an incredible ride, selling
out venues all over the country and winning multiple awards
for his music, including three CMT Awards for Son of
a Sinner. Jelly has a checkered past and turned to
(00:23):
music to find redemption. He started as a rapper and
found his way to country music, making his debut at
the Grand Old Opry in November of twenty twenty one.
Jelly Roll was one of music's biggest stars, and we're
proud to present this classic replay with Jelly and your
host Buzz Night on Taking a Walk.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Well, Jelly Roll, it's so great to have you on
Taking a Walk here. You started twenty twenty two playing
eight hundred seats I believe it was in Buffalo, New York,
and you ended up playing twenty thousand seat sellout at
(01:05):
your hometown in Nashville. What was the first experience like
and what was the Nashville experience like as well?
Speaker 3 (01:16):
It was, you know, the first experience.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
The funny part of that story I don't get to
tell nobody is because I haven't got the detail it is.
I actually missed the Buffalo show. I had a flight
get canceled because of a snowstorm in Buffalo, and I
ended up having to just skip Buffalo and go to
Boston the next day, which was the Palladium in Wooston, Massachusetts.
So it was just funny that my first booking of
(01:40):
the year was in a club, you know, and then
of course even the second show. You've probably been to
the Palladium. I know you came from the Boston market,
so you know, it's what two thousand cap club or whatever,
you know, And to end it in a completely sold
out arena at home was just a testament of the year.
I was having to tell John Lowe, but the president
of our Broken Bow Records and the label that signed
the guy that gave me my chance. And of course
(02:02):
there were some mishaps with all of the partners and
media and we're shooting a documentary and filming this big show,
you know, and Loba wasn't upset, but he was like, man,
it was just really hard to find you. That afternoon,
I said, you got to remember this is this is
so new to us, you know.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
I was like, we didn't.
Speaker 4 (02:18):
We had to grow into the arenas in like ten
months flat. It was hard. You know, it's a pig
we went from I went from I went into the
pandemic in a two sprinter van tour right and that
was a luxury by then, because I took an extra
sprinter van for me and the family, and I sent
the band and the other sprinter.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
So I come out of.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
The pandemic straight into a two bus tour and ended
in a six bus seven truck tour.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (02:45):
And all these dudes around you are just trying to
tell you what's going on, and you're so confused, just
trying to trust them, you know what I'm.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
Saying, You're just like, are you sure this is the
right decision to make?
Speaker 4 (02:53):
By the whole other bus of people, they was like,
somebody's got to run the lights. I was like, God,
why are we bringing lights? Because you're playing a twelve
thousand cap club an arena in Michigan at night.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
You gotta have real production.
Speaker 4 (03:05):
I never took production out until we were doing it
at a small arena level.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
How does John Logo make it look so easy? As
my question?
Speaker 4 (03:14):
Oh listen, Loba acts like nothing. He never he only
seems excited. He never seems stressed. He's always forward to think.
I don't know if he goes home and just melts
into a pall, a ball of putty or something.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
But he's just unbelievable.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
Man.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
He did this podcast, and I have to tell you,
his vision and his leadership come shining through in that episode.
Speaker 4 (03:42):
Jelly No, I gotta check it out because he's I
see it every time I talk to him. I'm so
blessed to have a label partner that I talked to
multiple times a week. I mean him, Carson, Adrian Michaels,
the entire radio team over there. I mean I talk
to these people obsessively. I mean I probably talked to
somebody in that office every day twice.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
You know, you share some similar life paths as the
great Johnny Cash, prison time, drug challenges, personal trials. What
does his music mean to.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
You, oh man?
Speaker 4 (04:20):
Johnny was one of the the whole outlaw movement, not
limited to Johnny, but that whole era was still probably
my favorite era in American music history. And I say
American music history, not just country music history. Because Nashville
was on fire. You know, Bob Dillon came down here
and wrote, you know what was the Nashville Skyline record
(04:44):
came down here into the Johnny Cash Show. I mean,
Johnny Cash had transcended country music at a time into
a whole different culture and put a whole different look.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
You know.
Speaker 4 (04:56):
And he taught me a lot no pun intended about
how to walk the line, because Johnny knew how to
walk that line. And I don't even mean just in
his relationship. I meant in the business, right, you know,
he stood by his outlawedness. He stood a man of character,
a man of integrity, morals, what he believed. He wasn't
afraid to tell you to fuck off, right, but equally
(05:17):
did fifty two shows of the Johnny Cash Show, almost
a syndicated television show, big hit, the infamous documentary you've
probably seen about him, A Richard Nixon, Tricky Dick, and
the Man in Black. I mean, he had some wild
political shit happened in the background.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
Too, just quiet as captain, you know.
Speaker 4 (05:34):
And Johnny Cash was the ultimate to me of that era,
the guy that I aspired to be. Me and my
buddy Ryan Upchurch struggled. Jennings and Adam Calhoun were talking
reason and Ryan up Church is a multi genre artist
as well, but does it independently and has no aspiration
to partner with the label. I am anti the system
(05:57):
right as far as like the establishment, meaning, I think
artist should own art, and I'm pressing that big in
these rooms is that artists should own art. There's no
reason these artist shouldn't own a piece of their masters.
Ryan's just like, I'm never playing ball with those guys.
And I said, well, that's what makes this so cool
about all four of us is because that was Johnny Whalon, Willie,
Chris Jesse. Right, if you think about it, Johnny played
(06:21):
the game, Johnny Cash show, big late night TV appearances,
stood next to President you know, man Wayling.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
Jenny didn't give a shit about none of that. Dude.
He showed up every now and then.
Speaker 4 (06:31):
To a late night TV show and that's about it,
you know what I'm saying. It's like, so it's really
cool to see that even in this generation, that outlaw
blossoms different ways just like it did back then.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
You know, I love your appreciation for the historical figures
and the music that's been around you.
Speaker 4 (06:53):
Yeah, well it's bound to repeat itself. So I just
wanted to check and see where I might fit into
the future landscape. And I started getting obsessed with these eras,
and I mimicked my entire songwriting style from that nineteen
sixty seven to seventy six era, everything from Segur to
(07:13):
Dylan to Cash to Willie to Whalan write that whole,
James Taylor, Jim Crochey, these are the guys that made
me want to write songs.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
John Prine, I would imagine, zah, absolutely, Do you remember
the first time that you rapped something?
Speaker 3 (07:32):
Oh? Absolutely, dude. I went downstairs.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
So my mother struggled with like mental health and addiction stuff, right,
and she'd come to the kitchen and the whole house
would come. We'd listen to music. And when I realized
that music was affecting her addiction, I was like, Oh,
this makes mom happy, I should go write music, right,
So I went upstairs and I wrote a rap because
(07:56):
hip hop.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Was super influential in our culture, and.
Speaker 4 (08:01):
I was I went downstairs with my little sheet of paper,
and she had all of her friends at the kitchen table.
I called them the Golden Girls, like six or seven
month and they'd all come to the kitchen table together.
They just changed smoked cigarettes and I came down. She
turned the record off and said what you got? I said,
listen to this, And I held my little sheet of
paper up and I was shaking the whole time, and
I wrapped her a little wrap. And I was probably
(08:21):
twelve years old. Eleven years old.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Do you remember what you wrapped?
Speaker 3 (08:27):
I don't remember anything.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
It was just like, you know, I don't like I
just remember that feeling of everybody cheering me on and
telling me to go write another one.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
In hindsight, they were just trying to get rid of me.
That's how we do kids. Yeah, Greg, go write another
one of those.
Speaker 4 (08:43):
I'll give you another magic moment real quick, if you
got time. I walked into middle school. I went to
this school called Cameron Middle School on Murphsburg Road. It
was across the street from the JC Napier Project homes,
and so, needless to say, I was one of seven
white kids at the whole school, right, And I would
walk every day by the breakfast because you know that
(09:06):
you get free breakfast at school, and they would always
be sitting outside of the lunch room pounding on the
table and rapping. So I'd say maybe my seventh grade year,
sixth grade year, I finally got the courage to go
over and see if I could fit in the mix,
you know. And I walked in and they would freestyle,
you know, about teachers and like stuff that was happening
in middle school, you know. And I came in and uh,
(09:29):
I think I made a joke about running from a
principal and him catching me because I was fat, because
I was a big kid too, and whatever the line was.
I just remember watching one hundred black kids in the
hallway lose their shit, just like.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
Because this is like you have.
Speaker 4 (09:45):
Eminem wasn't out yet, right, nobody really connected with the
Beastie boys. They had been out, but it wasn't in
a culture that I knew who the beast Boys were.
But these kids didn't like Vanilla Ice was you know
what I mean, this wasn't even really a thing thing yet.
So it's like this was an un thing, Like why
is there a white kid in here rapping and he's
good at it? So it was really really I remember
that being the two times I caught the bug.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
What was it like working with em and.
Speaker 4 (10:10):
M Nothing short of unreal.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
I mean, he's the goat.
Speaker 4 (10:15):
Anything connected with him is just I think he's the
greatest rapper ever. I think he will go down as
the greatest rapper ever.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
You have this unbelievable lack of being categorized in one genre.
You've got rap, you've got rock, you've got country, you've
got spiritual. Damn you're even like a motivational speaker in
your own way. How does that make you feel that
you defy categorization?
Speaker 3 (10:46):
Lifelong dream?
Speaker 4 (10:47):
I feel like my whole life, I just wanted to
defye categories, you know, I just wanted to. I feel
like a lot of us live in that space. We
were just so taught that we have to fit into
a certain box for identity, identity purposes, you know, because
when I was a kid, you couldn't come to school
on Monday with a Shanaia Twain shirt and come back
(11:08):
to school Friday with it with a Snoop Dogg shirt.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
Right.
Speaker 4 (11:13):
You were either a country person, you were a rock person,
you were a rap person. You were identified in these
these little boxes. And I just remember thinking, then, well, man,
that's not that can't that's not right, because I like
Offspring and Snoop Dogg, you know, I like Johnny Cash
and I like Jim crochey. You know, why can't I
(11:35):
you know, And what has happened through the era of
streaming is now we see that more than ever, right,
And so me blending the genres is just me kind
of doing what I feel passionate about. But my daughter's
an example of I listened to her cleaning her room yesterday.
Every time she cleans her room, she turns on the
music to make sure the whole house can hear it.
And that's maybe our punishment for punishing her to make
(11:58):
her clean her room, and she blairs everything from Ariana
Grande to Cardi B.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (12:05):
It's like the fact that my kid knows the new
Chris Young song, and she also knows the new NBA
Young Boy song. That's not weird to anybody in her school,
you know, and my generation that would have been fucking weird,
you know what.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
I mean, Jelly, If you ran the prison system, what would.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
You do well?
Speaker 4 (12:25):
If I ran the prison system, I would attempt to
bring more programming, rehabilitation and trade work skills there, and
I would try to create systems to offer housings in
different areas. Right because a lot of the problem that happens,
especially in the juvenile cases because I'm super passionate about
the juveniles because I was a juvenile offender that got
(12:46):
charged on an adult. You take a fifteen year old
kid that's in a broken home with a family that
does drugs and a cousin that lives there that sells drugs,
and you put them in juvenile and then you send
them right to that house and wonder how that kid
triggered back into trouble.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
You know.
Speaker 4 (13:06):
I think that I would focus on offering opportunities for
inmates to get out of prison and move to halfway
houses in different states with trade work available there, you know,
or different cities.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
You know.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
Take the Chattanooga guys and move them to Humbole, Tennessee.
And take the Memphis guys and move them to Chattanooga,
you know, and just try to create culture and structure
because you can't continue, I know, troubles everywhere, but sometimes
new playgrounds, new playmates, you know. And I think that
I would just focus on that, focus on the rehabilitation
(13:38):
of it. It's I look back at my time in
jail and all the time I did, and I didn't
learn a single skill in there, right, Like I didn't
learn a single skill, like you're just They just make
smarter criminals. You put two hundred criminals in a room
together and don't give them anything to go look forward to.
They're not going to do nothing but gamble, fight, and
teach each other criminal ways.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
That's it.
Speaker 4 (14:01):
That's all that happens in jail. They gamble, they fight,
and they teach each other better ways to be criminals.
My favorite thing about the George J. Younges story, I'm sure
you've seen the movie Blow, is when he says I
went in with a bachelor's degree in weed and came
out with a PhD In cocaine, And that is so true.
(14:23):
You know how many guys I've seen go to jail,
small drug dealers and meet a big drug dealer in jail,
and you know they're not focused on rehab.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
Now.
Speaker 4 (14:32):
Luckily, here in Nashville, Sheriff Hall is really open to
the idea of programming, So I've been talking to him
a lot. So we're gonna start making changes on that,
hopefully on a national level, but we're gonna start where
it matters most right here at home.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
And when you did the sellout at the arena, you
put your money where your mouth is to begin a
project there. Can you talk about.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
That, yes, sir not.
Speaker 4 (14:55):
We started putting together studios inside of the Juvenile Downtown,
the Impact Youth Outreach that we partner with. We hired
more staff for full time care for people that come
out of juvenile so they'll go straight to this program.
We're getting corridorated by the judges. Let me tell you
the most beautiful thing about this. And we're building studios
outside for kids when they come home, music programs inside.
(15:18):
The next thing we're going to try to bring in
there is another trade work, whether we partner with leaves,
heating and air and try to bring h VAC in
or something just to teach kids, you know, more trade work.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
But this is just scratching the surface. I have big dreams.
Speaker 4 (15:32):
I want to open halfway houses around town and I
want to really make a difference when it comes down
to this city. I want to That's one of the
things I want to be remembered for, is you know,
I want to be remembered for feeding the homeless and
visiting the jails.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Do you have a documentary in the works.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
We do.
Speaker 4 (15:49):
We do have a documentary to work. I don't know
how much I'm allowed to talk about it, but we do.
We Hulu filmed me, ABC News filmed me for i'd
say sixty percent of twenty twenty two. I mean in
a lot of time with me and uh, it should
be coming out sometime right here before the Midsummer I'm really.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
Excited and nervous.
Speaker 4 (16:08):
Did you let a camera crew into your personal life
for like four or five hundred hours? You know they've
probably caught some wild shit.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Do you still get performance nerves every time?
Speaker 4 (16:20):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (16:22):
Unbelievably I was.
Speaker 4 (16:23):
I played the Leslie Jordan tribute at the Grand Old
Oppery recently and I could I was shaken on stage.
You know, you could just see my hand shaken the
microphone you could see shaken a little bit.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
Yeah. And the day I quit getting those nerves, I'll
quit torn.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
I have to tell you, as we close, as somebody
who has felt the deep connection with you, and like
others felt that connection, I have to ask you, how
do you balance work and life to the betterment of
of you know, your health and well being.
Speaker 4 (17:01):
I am learning that now because I have spent so
much time focused on building the music side of the
career that at times I do get lost on the
family side, which is always the most important side. So
this going into this year specifically.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
I found a better balance, you know what.
Speaker 4 (17:19):
I've gotten finally bold enough to say to help with
that buzz.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
No.
Speaker 4 (17:24):
No, it's a crazy word, and it's hard to say
when you're a kid from Antiocht that never had anything.
You just say yes because you know what I'm saying,
because you've never had anything. And then you say yes
to so much you find out that you you know,
I haven't been home for a daughter's birthday in six
seven years, and it just breaks my heart, you know.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
So it's things that I'm going to try to do
better moving forward.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Thank you for saying yes to being on taking a
walk on so straight.
Speaker 4 (17:51):
No, these are the easy ones, the nose or whenever
they get you to do a one off in Seattle
and it takes three days of your life and you
still say yes to go do a three hundred person
club for radio. It takes four days of your life
to get to Seattle and back on your daughter's birthday
and you're.
Speaker 3 (18:12):
Just like, you know what next time they call about
that when I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
No, I'm so grateful, Thank you so much.
Speaker 4 (18:19):
Thank for your time, buzz anytime. Congratulations man. On a
personal note, you know, I love to see people step
out into the unknown and take ownership and that's awesome.
It's so cool. I wish you blessings on these podcasts.
I hope you do a thousand of them. I hope
you build a catalog and sell them for a hundred
(18:40):
million dollars later in life. That's what that's my prayer
for you. You know, you're an artist at heart.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
Buzz. Artists deserve to own art.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
You're the best. I hope I get to meet you
down at the country radio seminar. I'm going to be
down there, so.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
Oh well, then you're absolutely going to meet me. I'llell low,
but make sure we see each other no matter what.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
I hope, so I'm make.
Speaker 4 (18:59):
Sure that happens. I'll come find you. I'm in town
all week. Awesome.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Thank you, I really thank you. I have a special
gift for you that I'm bringing. It's a book. It's
a little book. It's called how to Walk. It's by
a Buddhist monk. I give it to all my guests.
He's his name, he's deceased. His name is Teeth, not Han,
and it's this little Book of Spirituality, and I can
(19:27):
either mail it to you or give it to you
in person, but.
Speaker 4 (19:30):
You know what, I'll talk to love, but I might
get you to mail it to me. Because I'm such
a book reader, I might read it before you get here.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
I read I probably I'm making a goal to read.
Speaker 4 (19:40):
A book a week, sometimes two, every single week. And
sometimes I have a thing where once a year I
recycle four books that have helped me the most over
the years. Right, I recycle once a year I read
Tuesdays with Morey Again by Mitch Album. I read The
Five People You Meet in Heaven by Mitch Album because
they're my two probably favorite books of all time. I
(20:03):
read The Alchemist once a year, and I pick a
Malcolm Gladwell book that I've read before. So like this year,
i read Talking to Strangers. Last year, I reread Outliers.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
It's awesome. Well, I'd be honored to get it to you.
And uh, I'm so grateful and tickled and uh and
thank you for the music that you that you give
us and for just you know, kicking ass. And this
is going to be an even better year for you
than last year.
Speaker 4 (20:34):
Okay, waite, thank you so much buzz, Thanks Jolly.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
Thanks for listening to this episode of the Taking a
Walk podcast. Share this and other episodes with your friends
and follow us so you never miss an episode. Taking
a Walk is available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
and wherever you get your podcasts.
Welcome to this classic replay of the Taking a Walk
podcast with your host Buzz Night and his special guest,
Jelly Roll. Jelly has been on an incredible ride, selling
out venues all over the country and winning multiple awards
for his music, including three CMT Awards for Son of
a Sinner. Jelly has a checkered past and turned to
(00:23):
music to find redemption. He started as a rapper and
found his way to country music, making his debut at
the Grand Old Opry in November of twenty twenty one.
Jelly Roll was one of music's biggest stars, and we're
proud to present this classic replay with Jelly and your
host Buzz Night on Taking a Walk.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Well, Jelly Roll, it's so great to have you on
Taking a Walk here. You started twenty twenty two playing
eight hundred seats I believe it was in Buffalo, New York,
and you ended up playing twenty thousand seat sellout at
(01:05):
your hometown in Nashville. What was the first experience like
and what was the Nashville experience like as well?
Speaker 3 (01:16):
It was, you know, the first experience.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
The funny part of that story I don't get to
tell nobody is because I haven't got the detail it is.
I actually missed the Buffalo show. I had a flight
get canceled because of a snowstorm in Buffalo, and I
ended up having to just skip Buffalo and go to
Boston the next day, which was the Palladium in Wooston, Massachusetts.
So it was just funny that my first booking of
(01:40):
the year was in a club, you know, and then
of course even the second show. You've probably been to
the Palladium. I know you came from the Boston market,
so you know, it's what two thousand cap club or whatever,
you know, And to end it in a completely sold
out arena at home was just a testament of the year.
I was having to tell John Lowe, but the president
of our Broken Bow Records and the label that signed
the guy that gave me my chance. And of course
(02:02):
there were some mishaps with all of the partners and
media and we're shooting a documentary and filming this big show,
you know, and Loba wasn't upset, but he was like, man,
it was just really hard to find you. That afternoon,
I said, you got to remember this is this is
so new to us, you know.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
I was like, we didn't.
Speaker 4 (02:18):
We had to grow into the arenas in like ten
months flat. It was hard. You know, it's a pig
we went from I went from I went into the
pandemic in a two sprinter van tour right and that
was a luxury by then, because I took an extra
sprinter van for me and the family, and I sent
the band and the other sprinter.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
So I come out of.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
The pandemic straight into a two bus tour and ended
in a six bus seven truck tour.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (02:45):
And all these dudes around you are just trying to
tell you what's going on, and you're so confused, just
trying to trust them, you know what I'm.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
Saying, You're just like, are you sure this is the
right decision to make?
Speaker 4 (02:53):
By the whole other bus of people, they was like,
somebody's got to run the lights. I was like, God,
why are we bringing lights? Because you're playing a twelve
thousand cap club an arena in Michigan at night.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
You gotta have real production.
Speaker 4 (03:05):
I never took production out until we were doing it
at a small arena level.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
How does John Logo make it look so easy? As
my question?
Speaker 4 (03:14):
Oh listen, Loba acts like nothing. He never he only
seems excited. He never seems stressed. He's always forward to think.
I don't know if he goes home and just melts
into a pall, a ball of putty or something.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
But he's just unbelievable.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
Man.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
He did this podcast, and I have to tell you,
his vision and his leadership come shining through in that episode.
Speaker 4 (03:42):
Jelly No, I gotta check it out because he's I
see it every time I talk to him. I'm so
blessed to have a label partner that I talked to
multiple times a week. I mean him, Carson, Adrian Michaels,
the entire radio team over there. I mean I talk
to these people obsessively. I mean I probably talked to
somebody in that office every day twice.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
You know, you share some similar life paths as the
great Johnny Cash, prison time, drug challenges, personal trials. What
does his music mean to.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
You, oh man?
Speaker 4 (04:20):
Johnny was one of the the whole outlaw movement, not
limited to Johnny, but that whole era was still probably
my favorite era in American music history. And I say
American music history, not just country music history. Because Nashville
was on fire. You know, Bob Dillon came down here
and wrote, you know what was the Nashville Skyline record
(04:44):
came down here into the Johnny Cash Show. I mean,
Johnny Cash had transcended country music at a time into
a whole different culture and put a whole different look.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
You know.
Speaker 4 (04:56):
And he taught me a lot no pun intended about
how to walk the line, because Johnny knew how to
walk that line. And I don't even mean just in
his relationship. I meant in the business, right, you know,
he stood by his outlawedness. He stood a man of character,
a man of integrity, morals, what he believed. He wasn't
afraid to tell you to fuck off, right, but equally
(05:17):
did fifty two shows of the Johnny Cash Show, almost
a syndicated television show, big hit, the infamous documentary you've
probably seen about him, A Richard Nixon, Tricky Dick, and
the Man in Black. I mean, he had some wild
political shit happened in the background.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
Too, just quiet as captain, you know.
Speaker 4 (05:34):
And Johnny Cash was the ultimate to me of that era,
the guy that I aspired to be. Me and my
buddy Ryan Upchurch struggled. Jennings and Adam Calhoun were talking
reason and Ryan up Church is a multi genre artist
as well, but does it independently and has no aspiration
to partner with the label. I am anti the system
(05:57):
right as far as like the establishment, meaning, I think
artist should own art, and I'm pressing that big in
these rooms is that artists should own art. There's no
reason these artist shouldn't own a piece of their masters.
Ryan's just like, I'm never playing ball with those guys.
And I said, well, that's what makes this so cool
about all four of us is because that was Johnny Whalon, Willie,
Chris Jesse. Right, if you think about it, Johnny played
(06:21):
the game, Johnny Cash show, big late night TV appearances,
stood next to President you know, man Wayling.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
Jenny didn't give a shit about none of that. Dude.
He showed up every now and then.
Speaker 4 (06:31):
To a late night TV show and that's about it,
you know what I'm saying. It's like, so it's really
cool to see that even in this generation, that outlaw
blossoms different ways just like it did back then.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
You know, I love your appreciation for the historical figures
and the music that's been around you.
Speaker 4 (06:53):
Yeah, well it's bound to repeat itself. So I just
wanted to check and see where I might fit into
the future landscape. And I started getting obsessed with these eras,
and I mimicked my entire songwriting style from that nineteen
sixty seven to seventy six era, everything from Segur to
(07:13):
Dylan to Cash to Willie to Whalan write that whole,
James Taylor, Jim Crochey, these are the guys that made
me want to write songs.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
John Prine, I would imagine, zah, absolutely, Do you remember
the first time that you rapped something?
Speaker 3 (07:32):
Oh? Absolutely, dude. I went downstairs.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
So my mother struggled with like mental health and addiction stuff, right,
and she'd come to the kitchen and the whole house
would come. We'd listen to music. And when I realized
that music was affecting her addiction, I was like, Oh,
this makes mom happy, I should go write music, right,
So I went upstairs and I wrote a rap because
(07:56):
hip hop.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Was super influential in our culture, and.
Speaker 4 (08:01):
I was I went downstairs with my little sheet of paper,
and she had all of her friends at the kitchen table.
I called them the Golden Girls, like six or seven
month and they'd all come to the kitchen table together.
They just changed smoked cigarettes and I came down. She
turned the record off and said what you got? I said,
listen to this, And I held my little sheet of
paper up and I was shaking the whole time, and
I wrapped her a little wrap. And I was probably
(08:21):
twelve years old. Eleven years old.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Do you remember what you wrapped?
Speaker 3 (08:27):
I don't remember anything.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
It was just like, you know, I don't like I
just remember that feeling of everybody cheering me on and
telling me to go write another one.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
In hindsight, they were just trying to get rid of me.
That's how we do kids. Yeah, Greg, go write another
one of those.
Speaker 4 (08:43):
I'll give you another magic moment real quick, if you
got time. I walked into middle school. I went to
this school called Cameron Middle School on Murphsburg Road. It
was across the street from the JC Napier Project homes,
and so, needless to say, I was one of seven
white kids at the whole school, right, And I would
walk every day by the breakfast because you know that
(09:06):
you get free breakfast at school, and they would always
be sitting outside of the lunch room pounding on the
table and rapping. So I'd say maybe my seventh grade year,
sixth grade year, I finally got the courage to go
over and see if I could fit in the mix,
you know. And I walked in and they would freestyle,
you know, about teachers and like stuff that was happening
in middle school, you know. And I came in and uh,
(09:29):
I think I made a joke about running from a
principal and him catching me because I was fat, because
I was a big kid too, and whatever the line was.
I just remember watching one hundred black kids in the
hallway lose their shit, just like.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
Because this is like you have.
Speaker 4 (09:45):
Eminem wasn't out yet, right, nobody really connected with the
Beastie boys. They had been out, but it wasn't in
a culture that I knew who the beast Boys were.
But these kids didn't like Vanilla Ice was you know
what I mean, this wasn't even really a thing thing yet.
So it's like this was an un thing, Like why
is there a white kid in here rapping and he's
good at it? So it was really really I remember
that being the two times I caught the bug.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
What was it like working with em and.
Speaker 4 (10:10):
M Nothing short of unreal.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
I mean, he's the goat.
Speaker 4 (10:15):
Anything connected with him is just I think he's the
greatest rapper ever. I think he will go down as
the greatest rapper ever.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
You have this unbelievable lack of being categorized in one genre.
You've got rap, you've got rock, you've got country, you've
got spiritual. Damn you're even like a motivational speaker in
your own way. How does that make you feel that
you defy categorization?
Speaker 3 (10:46):
Lifelong dream?
Speaker 4 (10:47):
I feel like my whole life, I just wanted to
defye categories, you know, I just wanted to. I feel
like a lot of us live in that space. We
were just so taught that we have to fit into
a certain box for identity, identity purposes, you know, because
when I was a kid, you couldn't come to school
on Monday with a Shanaia Twain shirt and come back
(11:08):
to school Friday with it with a Snoop Dogg shirt.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
Right.
Speaker 4 (11:13):
You were either a country person, you were a rock person,
you were a rap person. You were identified in these
these little boxes. And I just remember thinking, then, well, man,
that's not that can't that's not right, because I like
Offspring and Snoop Dogg, you know, I like Johnny Cash
and I like Jim crochey. You know, why can't I
(11:35):
you know, And what has happened through the era of
streaming is now we see that more than ever, right,
And so me blending the genres is just me kind
of doing what I feel passionate about. But my daughter's
an example of I listened to her cleaning her room yesterday.
Every time she cleans her room, she turns on the
music to make sure the whole house can hear it.
And that's maybe our punishment for punishing her to make
(11:58):
her clean her room, and she blairs everything from Ariana
Grande to Cardi B.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (12:05):
It's like the fact that my kid knows the new
Chris Young song, and she also knows the new NBA
Young Boy song. That's not weird to anybody in her school,
you know, and my generation that would have been fucking weird,
you know what.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
I mean, Jelly, If you ran the prison system, what would.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
You do well?
Speaker 4 (12:25):
If I ran the prison system, I would attempt to
bring more programming, rehabilitation and trade work skills there, and
I would try to create systems to offer housings in
different areas. Right because a lot of the problem that happens,
especially in the juvenile cases because I'm super passionate about
the juveniles because I was a juvenile offender that got
(12:46):
charged on an adult. You take a fifteen year old
kid that's in a broken home with a family that
does drugs and a cousin that lives there that sells drugs,
and you put them in juvenile and then you send
them right to that house and wonder how that kid
triggered back into trouble.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
You know.
Speaker 4 (13:06):
I think that I would focus on offering opportunities for
inmates to get out of prison and move to halfway
houses in different states with trade work available there, you know,
or different cities.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
You know.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
Take the Chattanooga guys and move them to Humbole, Tennessee.
And take the Memphis guys and move them to Chattanooga,
you know, and just try to create culture and structure
because you can't continue, I know, troubles everywhere, but sometimes
new playgrounds, new playmates, you know. And I think that
I would just focus on that, focus on the rehabilitation
(13:38):
of it. It's I look back at my time in
jail and all the time I did, and I didn't
learn a single skill in there, right, Like I didn't
learn a single skill, like you're just They just make
smarter criminals. You put two hundred criminals in a room
together and don't give them anything to go look forward to.
They're not going to do nothing but gamble, fight, and
teach each other criminal ways.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
That's it.
Speaker 4 (14:01):
That's all that happens in jail. They gamble, they fight,
and they teach each other better ways to be criminals.
My favorite thing about the George J. Younges story, I'm sure
you've seen the movie Blow, is when he says I
went in with a bachelor's degree in weed and came
out with a PhD In cocaine, And that is so true.
(14:23):
You know how many guys I've seen go to jail,
small drug dealers and meet a big drug dealer in jail,
and you know they're not focused on rehab.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
Now.
Speaker 4 (14:32):
Luckily, here in Nashville, Sheriff Hall is really open to
the idea of programming, So I've been talking to him
a lot. So we're gonna start making changes on that,
hopefully on a national level, but we're gonna start where
it matters most right here at home.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
And when you did the sellout at the arena, you
put your money where your mouth is to begin a
project there. Can you talk about.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
That, yes, sir not.
Speaker 4 (14:55):
We started putting together studios inside of the Juvenile Downtown,
the Impact Youth Outreach that we partner with. We hired
more staff for full time care for people that come
out of juvenile so they'll go straight to this program.
We're getting corridorated by the judges. Let me tell you
the most beautiful thing about this. And we're building studios
outside for kids when they come home, music programs inside.
(15:18):
The next thing we're going to try to bring in
there is another trade work, whether we partner with leaves,
heating and air and try to bring h VAC in
or something just to teach kids, you know, more trade work.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
But this is just scratching the surface. I have big dreams.
Speaker 4 (15:32):
I want to open halfway houses around town and I
want to really make a difference when it comes down
to this city. I want to That's one of the
things I want to be remembered for, is you know,
I want to be remembered for feeding the homeless and
visiting the jails.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Do you have a documentary in the works.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
We do.
Speaker 4 (15:49):
We do have a documentary to work. I don't know
how much I'm allowed to talk about it, but we do.
We Hulu filmed me, ABC News filmed me for i'd
say sixty percent of twenty twenty two. I mean in
a lot of time with me and uh, it should
be coming out sometime right here before the Midsummer I'm really.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
Excited and nervous.
Speaker 4 (16:08):
Did you let a camera crew into your personal life
for like four or five hundred hours? You know they've
probably caught some wild shit.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Do you still get performance nerves every time?
Speaker 4 (16:20):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (16:22):
Unbelievably I was.
Speaker 4 (16:23):
I played the Leslie Jordan tribute at the Grand Old
Oppery recently and I could I was shaken on stage.
You know, you could just see my hand shaken the
microphone you could see shaken a little bit.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
Yeah. And the day I quit getting those nerves, I'll
quit torn.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
I have to tell you, as we close, as somebody
who has felt the deep connection with you, and like
others felt that connection, I have to ask you, how
do you balance work and life to the betterment of
of you know, your health and well being.
Speaker 4 (17:01):
I am learning that now because I have spent so
much time focused on building the music side of the
career that at times I do get lost on the
family side, which is always the most important side. So
this going into this year specifically.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
I found a better balance, you know what.
Speaker 4 (17:19):
I've gotten finally bold enough to say to help with
that buzz.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
No.
Speaker 4 (17:24):
No, it's a crazy word, and it's hard to say
when you're a kid from Antiocht that never had anything.
You just say yes because you know what I'm saying,
because you've never had anything. And then you say yes
to so much you find out that you you know,
I haven't been home for a daughter's birthday in six
seven years, and it just breaks my heart, you know.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
So it's things that I'm going to try to do
better moving forward.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Thank you for saying yes to being on taking a
walk on so straight.
Speaker 4 (17:51):
No, these are the easy ones, the nose or whenever
they get you to do a one off in Seattle
and it takes three days of your life and you
still say yes to go do a three hundred person
club for radio. It takes four days of your life
to get to Seattle and back on your daughter's birthday
and you're.
Speaker 3 (18:12):
Just like, you know what next time they call about
that when I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
No, I'm so grateful, Thank you so much.
Speaker 4 (18:19):
Thank for your time, buzz anytime. Congratulations man. On a
personal note, you know, I love to see people step
out into the unknown and take ownership and that's awesome.
It's so cool. I wish you blessings on these podcasts.
I hope you do a thousand of them. I hope
you build a catalog and sell them for a hundred
(18:40):
million dollars later in life. That's what that's my prayer
for you. You know, you're an artist at heart.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
Buzz. Artists deserve to own art.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
You're the best. I hope I get to meet you
down at the country radio seminar. I'm going to be
down there, so.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
Oh well, then you're absolutely going to meet me. I'llell low,
but make sure we see each other no matter what.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
I hope, so I'm make.
Speaker 4 (18:59):
Sure that happens. I'll come find you. I'm in town
all week. Awesome.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Thank you, I really thank you. I have a special
gift for you that I'm bringing. It's a book. It's
a little book. It's called how to Walk. It's by
a Buddhist monk. I give it to all my guests.
He's his name, he's deceased. His name is Teeth, not Han,
and it's this little Book of Spirituality, and I can
(19:27):
either mail it to you or give it to you
in person, but.
Speaker 4 (19:30):
You know what, I'll talk to love, but I might
get you to mail it to me. Because I'm such
a book reader, I might read it before you get here.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
I read I probably I'm making a goal to read.
Speaker 4 (19:40):
A book a week, sometimes two, every single week. And
sometimes I have a thing where once a year I
recycle four books that have helped me the most over
the years. Right, I recycle once a year I read
Tuesdays with Morey Again by Mitch Album. I read The
Five People You Meet in Heaven by Mitch Album because
they're my two probably favorite books of all time. I
(20:03):
read The Alchemist once a year, and I pick a
Malcolm Gladwell book that I've read before. So like this year,
i read Talking to Strangers. Last year, I reread Outliers.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
It's awesome. Well, I'd be honored to get it to you.
And uh, I'm so grateful and tickled and uh and
thank you for the music that you that you give
us and for just you know, kicking ass. And this
is going to be an even better year for you
than last year.
Speaker 4 (20:34):
Okay, waite, thank you so much buzz, Thanks Jolly.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
Thanks for listening to this episode of the Taking a
Walk podcast. Share this and other episodes with your friends
and follow us so you never miss an episode. Taking
a Walk is available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
and wherever you get your podcasts.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.